JRE MMA Show #134 with Belal Muhammad

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. BMBelal Muhammad0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. BMBelal Muhammad0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Bro, what's happening, brother? How you doing?

   5. BMBelal Muhammad0:14

      Good, man. How you been?

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Very good to see you.

   7. BMBelal Muhammad0:17

      Excited, man. It's one of those (sighs) milestones that you, you achieve. It's like, "I get to talk to, I get to talk to Joe Rogan."

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      Oh, coming on here? Oh, that's ridiculous.

   9. BMBelal Muhammad0:24

      Yeah, I was like (laughs) -

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       That's hilarious. That's hilarious, man. Well, it's, it's an honor to have you on. I appreciate you.

   11. BMBelal Muhammad0:28

       I, I appreciate you.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       I'm a big fan. And, uh, you're in a great spot right now, man. You're on, you're on the run. You're like, you're, you're there. You're like at the fucking door, you know.

   13. BMBelal Muhammad0:37

       Yeah. It's been a long road. It's like-

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       Yeah.

   15. BMBelal Muhammad0:39

       ... when I look back at it, where, where I've been and where I'm at right now, like you still don't even like believe it. But it's like, I still need to get over that hurdle where people still don't believe in you, still people are still looking for excuses of, "Why you beat this guy? Why you beat that guy? Why you don't deserve the title shot?"

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       But it's not always the case, and then all the sudden you're the fucking man. Like that was Charles Oliveira, right?

   17. BMBelal Muhammad0:59

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       For the longest time, people thought, "Oh, he falls apart, he falls apart." And then all a sudden everybody had to go, "You know what? He's the fucking man." You know? Until Islam got a hold of him, he was, you know, he was like a, a completely different entity than he was like back when Cub Swanson knocked him out.

   19. BMBelal Muhammad1:15

       Yeah. When you look at the way his career is, the way he-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       Mm-hmm.

   21. BMBelal Muhammad1:18

       Like people don't give enough credit for that.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       Yeah.

   23. BMBelal Muhammad1:19

       And the way he dominated some of the best guys-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       Oh my God.

   25. BMBelal Muhammad1:22

       ... once he was in his title reign.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       When he beat Gaethje, the, the way he beat Chandler. I mean, my God.

   27. BMBelal Muhammad1:27

       Yeah. But, I mean, now people know how good Islam is.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       I know.

   29. BMBelal Muhammad1:29

       People are respecting him the same way I feel like I'm not getting respected. And then-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. BMBelal Muhammad15:00

      I felt like I could have made it. So when I, I had, you gotta have, I think, leaders in the gym room that are gonna teach you the right things.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:08

      Mm-hmm.

   3. BMBelal Muhammad15:08

      Because if you have those guys, and those bigger gyms I feel like there's so many UFC fighters in there, 20, 30, 40 guys. Yeah, it's great training partners, great things. But if it's a guy like trying to come up, on the come up-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      Right.

   5. BMBelal Muhammad15:19

      ... or anything like that, they're gonna use you as a body for them.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      Yeah.

   7. BMBelal Muhammad15:22

      And they're gonna beat you up. And who are you gonna talk to? You're gonna talk to the coach, but the coach will be like, "Well, this guy pays me more, so I'm gonna stick with him. So you just go in there and give him some rounds. Keep it quiet, like nobody, nobody really cares what you have to say." So I think smaller gyms is, are better for that. And for me, I had, uh, my coach Louis Taylor, he was a fighter and when I, when he, when I came in, I was 23 years old when I first started fighting. And he was already a veteran in the game. He was in it, so like he... I was following in his footsteps and he was teaching me all the small things. "Don't go to that boxing gym. What are you going to go to that boxing gym for? They're... Boxers hate MMA fighters. They're gonna just try to knock you out." And, you know, I, I would sit there, go on my own a little bit. You're like, "You know, let me just see how it is," 'cause it's ego. Then you go over there and they're just trying to knock you out and it's like, what did I gain from that? It's just...

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:08

      Mm-hmm.

   9. BMBelal Muhammad16:09

      It's hard sparring, but it was like I didn't really gain any skill level. I gained toughness, but it's not really gonna help me win. I need better footwork, I need better defense, I need better this. I was still on the come up learning, so just getting beat up is not gonna help me.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Yeah, the small gym versus the large gym, that's the big debate, 'cause some people think a place like American Top Team, they have dormitories. You got all these guys coming in from Russia and, and Morocco and all these, all these places, all parts of the world, they're coming to American Top Team. And, you know, you might get some sparring with some fucking killers, but how many coaches are really paying attention to you when you're just a guy who just started out there? Is this a good place to develop? Are you running the risk of being injured because you're just going to war every day, versus a small gym where you get individualized attention and people are really paying attention to you? But then it's like, which small gym? Like every small gym is different. Some small gyms are really good.

   11. BMBelal Muhammad17:02

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       Some small gyms the guys are on point, they have a deep well of knowledge and they can really coach you. Some small gyms, the guy's kind of out of his league and, you know, he's bringing guys to the UFC and giving them shitty... I mean, you've, you see guys in the corner-

   13. BMBelal Muhammad17:15

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       ... give shit advice. And you're hearing this guy like, he's not giving any technical advice at all. This dude is like, he's doing things, he's making mistakes and he's not getting any coaching. He's getting like, "Go out there and fucking win. Go out there and kick his ass." You're like, "What?" He doesn't-

   15. BMBelal Muhammad17:28

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       Don't you think he already knows that? He knows that already. So that's a bad small gym, you know.

   17. BMBelal Muhammad17:32

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       It's, it's really finding the right pla- and finding the right place is so crucial. It's so crucial. And finding the right training partner is so crucial.

   19. BMBelal Muhammad17:40

       Yeah, I think the key, honestly, is training partner is you have to have the right guys that-

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:44

       Yeah.

   21. BMBelal Muhammad17:44

       ... really care for you, 'cause I've been at gyms where guys really don't care if you win or lose.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:48

       Mm-hmm.

   23. BMBelal Muhammad17:49

       But if you have that family feel where they're gonna be in the gym for you no matter what, and they're gonna push for you and they're gonna watch your opponent and give you that opponent's look... Like in bigger gyms if I'm a UFC fighter and you're a UFC fighter, you're telling me I'm fighting Wonderboy. And, and in my smaller gym I had every single one of my five guys that I've trained with, all of them try to give me that Wonderboy look. They're all paying attention to what he does. "Hey, I think he does this extra." In a bigger gym they're like, "I'm not a karate guy. I'm gonna give you what I got."

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:13

       Right, right, right.

   25. BMBelal Muhammad18:14

       He's like, "You want this or not? Uh, I, I gotta get paid too, uh, unless you're gonna pay me for it." But that's what I love about the smaller gyms is 'cause I fought Demian Maia. I didn't have one black belt in my, uh, gym. I didn't have one black belt that was helping me push or grapple. So I had the mi- mindset of I have great wrestlers that I'm training with. Every single one of my guys is a great wrestler, so I will... Let's just not hit the ground. Let's just push my, push my wrestling so hard that he's gonna tire himself out trying to take me down. So I don't have to overthink it, the situation. When I fought Wonderboy-I was, I'd been at camp with Anthony Pettis when he fought Wonderboy, I'd been at camp with Woodley when he fought Wonderboy. And Woodley brought in ...

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:51

       Mm.

   27. BMBelal Muhammad18:51

       ... say he's northcut. Anthony Pettis, uh, was using Mike ... your roads, and they have that karate style.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:56

       Mm.

   29. BMBelal Muhammad18:56

       But for me, I was, uh, then I asked Anthony, like, "So, you think I should bring somebody in?" He's like, "Honestly, just watch this tape." It was, uh, I forgot who it was. It was a kickboxer that fought, uh, uh, Raymond Daniels-

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:07

       Mm-hmm.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      professional athleticism that has very little room for error, which is what you're in. I mean, you're in the, the, the-

   2. BMBelal Muhammad30:06

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      ... the hardest fucking sport, I think, in the world. And y- if you can maximize your recovery and maximize your health and maximize your vitality by not drinking alcohol, I would s- you know, I would tell people to do it. I mean, maybe a glass of wine here and there, a little glass of whiskey.

   4. BMBelal Muhammad30:23

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:24

      No big deal. But guys who get drunk, guys who, like, really like to party and drink, man, you are fucking chipping away at your health.

   6. BMBelal Muhammad30:31

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:31

      There's no if, ands, or buts about it.

   8. BMBelal Muhammad30:33

      Yeah, I mean, I know a lot of guys that do it, and then they'll come into the practice room on Monday, they're hungover or something.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:38

      Oh. Get beat up.

   10. BMBelal Muhammad30:38

       You're not really getting as much out of the session.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:41

       No.

   12. BMBelal Muhammad30:41

       And I tell them-

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       And you, you get hurt.

   14. BMBelal Muhammad30:42

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:43

       Yeah.

   16. BMBelal Muhammad30:43

       And I've seen it happen to a lot of guys, and I tell them, like, "How bad do you want it? How serious do you want it?" These younger fighters.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:48

       Yeah.

   18. BMBelal Muhammad30:48

       And I tell them, like, "It's not an easy road." Everybody always asks me for advice, "Oh, how do you get to the UFC?" And I'm like, there's no, there's no, like, easy road to the UFC. There's some people that will skyrocket right in there, like you said, they're famous-

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       Mm-hmm.

   20. BMBelal Muhammad31:00

       ... they got a, a following behind them and they're gonna blow up right away, or there's guys that have to inch their way in. And-

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:05

       Guys like you that grind.

   22. BMBelal Muhammad31:07

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:07

       You've ground... You've worked your way through contender after contender after contender.

   24. BMBelal Muhammad31:12

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:12

       You've been grinding, dude.

   26. BMBelal Muhammad31:14

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:14

       I appreciate that, though, man. That's a mentality that I really appreciate because it's hard to do. And no one has to tell you that. That's a har-... when you're not making these, uh, monumental leaps in terms of, like, public consciousness and being celebrated, you're steady up that fucking ladder. That's what you're doing. And that, to me, is some of the most impressive shit. Like, that Sean Brady fight, that was a big fight, man.

   28. BMBelal Muhammad31:37

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:38

       That dude's a killer. He's a fucking killer, and you put it on him, man. You put it on him, and you pressured the shit out of him. That was a, that was a big fight. It was a big fight.

   30. BMBelal Muhammad31:47

       Yeah, that was one of those fights where, obviously, I wanted to fight upward. I thought that I... I fought Luque, who was on a seven-fight winning streak, and he was number five in the world, and I beat him, and then I beat Wonderboy before that, who was number five. And then you're gonna offer me number eight, and I was sitting there like, "This doesn't make any sense." Like, Cham- Hamzat's still out there. Gilbert Burns is still out there. Give me those guys, and they just weren't pushing it, and they were like, "Well, we'll give you him. We'll give you Brady," and I was like, "Honestly, I don't care."
4. 45:00 – 59:44

   Yeah. …

   1. BMBelal Muhammad45:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      Yeah.

   3. BMBelal Muhammad45:00

      ... everything in the whole division.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:01

      Well, you know, Izzy almost stopped him in the second kickboxing fight they had, too.

   5. BMBelal Muhammad45:04

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:05

      Or, uh, yeah, the second kickboxing fight. 'Cause in the second kickboxing fight, the first one, I thought Izzy should've won a decision. It was very close, but I thought Izzy should've won. And the second one, Izzy had him rocked. Like, he had him wobbling and then they came in and gave him a standing eight count.

   7. BMBelal Muhammad45:21

      Yeah, I didn't even know-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:22

      Yeah.

   9. BMBelal Muhammad45:22

      ... that, that like ... And I, I felt like he should've j- let him drop first before giving him the standing eight count. Like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:26

       Standing eight counts are weird.

   11. BMBelal Muhammad45:27

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:28

       They're so weird. It's like, "You're in trouble, I'm gonna give you a break," versus, "You're in trouble" and then the guy stops you. Like-

   13. BMBelal Muhammad45:33

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:33

       Why? I don't agree with standing eight counts, I don't understand it. But that's what's like, I think the sup- I think MMA rules are, are superior in that, like, there's no, like, you get dropped and you come back up, because of the fact that there's ground fighting and ground and pound. When someone gets hurt and the, it's, uh, someone can put that person away, that's the end of the fight. There's a thing that happens in boxing when a guy gets dropped where you're like, "One, two," and you get up and then no one's hitting you. And they brush your gloves off and they go, "Come to me," and there's all this time and you have time to, sort of, get your equilibrium back and move around. That's probably worse for you.

   15. BMBelal Muhammad46:11

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       It's probably worse for you.

   17. BMBelal Muhammad46:13

       Unless you're Tyson Fury and you get dropped-

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:16

       (laughs)

   19. BMBelal Muhammad46:16

       ... by Wilder and you get up and you're like, "How the heck did he come up so hard?"

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       Came up and won the r- remainder of the round.

   21. BMBelal Muhammad46:21

       Yeah, but you're looking at that, too, and, uh, you ever seen those videos of, like, the guy, the ref counting and somebody's like, "Dude, it was, like, 20 seconds the ref's counting."

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:28

       Yeah.

   23. BMBelal Muhammad46:28

       Because you go, "One, two," and it's like, what if it's, like, a bad ref who's, like, counting a lot faster?

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:33

       That does happen.

   25. BMBelal Muhammad46:34

       And it, it changes everything too.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:35

       That happened with Mike Tyson and Buster Douglas. When Tyson dropped Douglas, that was more than a ten count.

   27. BMBelal Muhammad46:40

       Oh, really?

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:41

       Yeah, yeah. You can go back. There's people who have, uh, taken that video and superimposed it with a camera that shows you an actually count of ten.

   29. BMBelal Muhammad46:48

       Oh, wow.

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:48

       Yeah, and it goes to, like, 11 or 12-

Episode duration: 2:57:11