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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #134 with Belal Muhammad

Joe sits down with Belal Muhammad, a mixed martial artist competing in the UFC welterweight division. www.ufc.com/athlete/belal-muhammad

Belal MuhammadguestJoe Roganhost
Jun 27, 20242h 57mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:54

    Belal’s milestone moment + the fight for respect at the title-shot doorstep

    1. BM

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. BM

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays)

    4. JR

      Bro, what's happening, brother? How you doing?

    5. BM

      Good, man. How you been?

    6. JR

      Very good to see you.

    7. BM

      Excited, man. It's one of those (sighs) milestones that you, you achieve. It's like, "I get to talk to, I get to talk to Joe Rogan."

    8. JR

      Oh, coming on here? Oh, that's ridiculous.

    9. BM

      Yeah, I was like (laughs) -

    10. JR

      That's hilarious. That's hilarious, man. Well, it's, it's an honor to have you on. I appreciate you.

    11. BM

      I, I appreciate you.

    12. JR

      I'm a big fan. And, uh, you're in a great spot right now, man. You're on, you're on the run. You're like, you're, you're there. You're like at the fucking door, you know.

    13. BM

      Yeah. It's been a long road. It's like-

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. BM

      ... when I look back at it, where, where I've been and where I'm at right now, like you still don't even like believe it. But it's like, I still need to get over that hurdle where people still don't believe in you, still people are still looking for excuses of, "Why you beat this guy? Why you beat that guy? Why you don't deserve the title shot?"

  2. 0:54 – 2:36

    Islam’s dominance and what Dagestani grappling feels like in real life

    1. JR

      But it's not always the case, and then all the sudden you're the fucking man. Like that was Charles Oliveira, right?

    2. BM

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      For the longest time, people thought, "Oh, he falls apart, he falls apart." And then all a sudden everybody had to go, "You know what? He's the fucking man." You know? Until Islam got a hold of him, he was, you know, he was like a, a completely different entity than he was like back when Cub Swanson knocked him out.

    4. BM

      Yeah. When you look at the way his career is, the way he-

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. BM

      Like people don't give enough credit for that.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. BM

      And the way he dominated some of the best guys-

    9. JR

      Oh my God.

    10. BM

      ... once he was in his title reign.

    11. JR

      When he beat Gaethje, the, the way he beat Chandler. I mean, my God.

    12. BM

      Yeah. But, I mean, now people know how good Islam is.

    13. JR

      I know.

    14. BM

      People are respecting him the same way I feel like I'm not getting respected. And then-

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. BM

      ... now when he plays with him like that, beats him on the feet and then finishes him on the ground, I think that now people are realizing, all right, well, Islam isn't all talk. Like when DC and all of them are saying that, like, "He's gonna be better than Khabib." Now they're realizing it.

    17. JR

      Anybody who said it was all talk is a fool. If, if you watch the way he submitted Drew Dober.

    18. BM

      Oh.

    19. JR

      He just smooshed him.

    20. BM

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      I'm like, there was no getting up there. There was j- it was just a, a matter of time before he put the smoosh down on him.

    22. BM

      Training with those guys, I tell people, I'm like, "If you never train with the guys from Dagestan, from somebody on their team, you don't know what it feels like." It's not, it's not regular jujitsu. Like it's like quicksand, where you're in there, you think you're moving, you're looking for a way out. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm really good at flow rolling and everything, and then I'm training with them my last camp, and I'm like, "I cannot move to the, with these guys." None of them. Like everybody on their team has that same style, same, uh, uh, pressure on top. And I'm feeling it and I'm like, "I need to change what I do in Chicago. I need to change what I'm doing." 'Cause these guys are so dominant with the way they play, the way they, uh, grapple. It's like they're gonna beat everybody. Nobody's gonna mess with them.

  3. 2:36 – 5:51

    The core difference: ‘MMA get-up’ mentality and winning every minute in the room

    1. JR

      What is the difference?

    2. BM

      For, well, for f- the mentality I think is a big thing too. Uh, you know, when you're rolling with somebody new, you, you'll get a flow roll with them. You'll play around to see how they're feeling. Uh, but them, they don't have that at all. It's, "I'm not gonna lose a round. I'm not gonna lose a minute when I'm going against you." If I'm gonna r- this is our first time rolling with each other, you know, I'm on my back. I'm going to my back, starting on my back and I'm like, "All right, let's, let's move." So I'm trying to play like, uh, guard, trying to go for arm bar or anything like that. And then Khabib just yelling at me, "Get up. We're not playing jujitsu. This is get up. This is MMA. We're not playing jujitsu. Not a... You're, you're on your back. You're losing." And their mentality is, "Let me hold you down 'cause I'm not gonna lose this round. I'm gonna stay on top of you. I don't care if I'm in your guard the whole time."

    3. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    4. BM

      "And I'm just staying on top of you with pressure. You just lost." Even though the, the round's over, I'm sitting there like, "Man, we haven't done anything." It's like, "I'm just laying on my back. You haven't done any pressure, no ground and pound or anything." But I just lost 'cause I'm on my back.

    5. JR

      Right.

    6. BM

      And I figured that's their mentality. They don't wanna lose any round in practice. They don't wanna lose, uh, any minute in grappling. If they get taken down, they're popping right back up. It's not, "Let me get taken down. Let me play on my back a little bit. Let me flow a little bit like that." No.

    7. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    8. BM

      It's rough, hard, hard, hard, hard, hard. And I think that's what transfers their mentality into the, the, the cage when there's no, there's no, "Let me warm up here." It's like right into it. Khabib goes in there, he grabs you, he holds you down. You don't, you never felt it before 'cause his strength is another level, and that's why I feel like a lot of these guys break once they feel it.

    9. JR

      I would be really interested to see... I mean, the b- the best guy off his back arguably in the lightweight division is Oliveira. And Oliveira really couldn't do anything with Islam. I mean, he really, he, he gave, you know, some difficulties. He made it, he got into the second round. It was like, it was work. But he didn't really threaten, you know. Where he threatens everybody off his back. That's the thing about Oliveira is like he'll catch you on the feet and he'll trade with you on the feet 'cause if you drop him, he'll, like gladly goes to his back to invite you into his guard.

    10. BM

      Yeah, and-

    11. JR

      But with Islam, he couldn't do a damn thing.

    12. BM

      Yeah, a lot of those guys before Islam were afraid to go to the ground with him.

    13. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. BM

      Like Gaethje dropped him a couple times.

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. BM

      Chandler dropped him and like they stood up 'cause you're, you got, you had that fear.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. BM

      With Islam it was like, "I don't care. He's gonna feel what it is on the ground."

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. BM

      Like they always say, "Sambo is better than jujitsu." And he just has that mentality like, "I wanna beat you at your own game." And the way he tapped him out from half guard-

    21. JR

      Ah.

    22. BM

      ... with that arm triangle. I'm like, "Nobody's ever treated Oliveira like that."

    23. JR

      Well, that squeeze must be another level.

    24. BM

      (laughs) Yeah, I was rolling with... Like, I would roll with him and that first week he's catching me with like an anaconda choke every time I'm going with him and it's just squeezing, squeezing. I'm like tapping. And then Islam's nice, so like he'll sh- tell you like, "You need to do it. You need to do it this way." And he'll show me the technique with it. When Khabib's on top of you, he's like breaking me at every single point and I'm asking him for a... "No, brother, you just gotta keep going." And I was like, "All right, cool." Uh, so the next time he does it, he's just on top of me again. He's like mounting me, then I'm turning giving him my back and then he's like just laughing as he's talking to the guys outside of the cage as he's on top of me. And I'm feeling like disrespected-

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. BM

      But like this is all Khabib. But like at least like Islam he'll be like, "Brother, do this way, do this."

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. BM

      "This is the way you get out of it." So by the-

    29. JR

      He's giving you some tips.

    30. BM

      Yeah.

  4. 5:51 – 11:48

    Inside Khabib’s disciplined camp: daily structure, sparring tiers, and ‘army’ standards

    1. JR

      They have a very, very disciplined camp, right? Like you, you have to have your hair cut a certain way. Like y- you can't be fucking around showing up with blue mohawks or nothing crazy.

    2. BM

      (laughs) .

    3. JR

      Like it's very disciplined, right?

    4. BM

      Yeah, I think that's one of the, the reasons why they're all successful. I feel like...When Khabib walks into the room, it's, it's like an army. We all get up, we all stand in line. He'll stand in line, he'll point to who's sparring hard in the cage, because it's a different type of sparring too, where normally for us we have a sparring day in Chicago, or most teams I've trained at will have a sparring day like Monday or Wednesday, uh, whereas ev- for them, they're doing everything every day. It's small glove sparring every day, then right after that you're taking off the gloves and you're grappling every day. Then right after that, you're going in the cage and you're wrestling on the cage every single day.

    5. JR

      Small glove sparring every day?

    6. BM

      But it's, it's light. So it's, uh, where-

    7. JR

      Sorry.

    8. BM

      ... where it's, you don't want to knock, you're not trying to knock each other out.

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. BM

      But then if he points to you that you're going to be hard sparring, hard sparring, then you're going in the cage with big gloves on.

    11. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    12. BM

      And those guys are going, were going hard and he's cornering and then Javier Mendez is in there cornering, so it's, you're getting that real fight feel.

    13. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. BM

      For me, I was down there with him for five weeks, so Khabib would corner his guy and my coach Lewis Taylor was down there with me with, uh, in Dubai, and he would corner me. So it was like, it's a real fight feel. The guys outside of the cage will sit there peeking. So you get those little nerves-

    15. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    16. BM

      ... that you would get, uh, in a fight. And I'm sparring with somebody, his cousin Abubakar, who's, uh, also in the UFC welterweight, you're sparring with somebody you're really not used to. So you also still have that, that tension that you feel like, "I don't know what this guy's gonna do. He's not one of my normal training partners where I know, well, he got a good left kick or he got a good-"

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. BM

      "... cross. I know what he's gonna bring to the table." It's like, no, it's a real fight feel every single time, because I don't know what he's gonna bring to the table. He doesn't know what I'm gonna bring to the table. And we have two corners cornering each other in there. So-

    19. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    20. BM

      ... when it's your hard sparring, you're in the cage. When it's not hard sparring, you're outside of the cage, you're doing a little bit of technique, then it's light sparring goes.

    21. JR

      So was this, uh, camp going there and training there for five weeks, is that, uh, just a big change in the way you look at things and like a, an eye-opening experience?

    22. BM

      Yeah, because, you know, I'm a guy that I like to cross train a lot. I'll, I'll, I'll go to a bunch of different gyms. I've been to Sanford MMA, I've been to Fortis, uh, I've been to Canada before to train with Fraz Khabib. And I want to get, bring that knowledge back to my team and back to my coaches and be like, "Yo, these teams are successful, this is what they're doing. This is what we gotta start doing too," because we're a small gym in Chicago and, you know, we have a, we had a real champion, Juliana Pena with us, but still, you have to keep evolving. You have to keep trying to do what the best teams are doing and seeing how their team is, how disciplined they are. It's like none of the guys are gonna show up late to practice. You're not gonna show up late and smile and laugh. It's like once he lines everybody up, you better sprint there in that line because he's gonna tell you what your duties are for that day.

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. BM

      And then when it's grappling, every single one of those guys is an amazing grappler. There's guys in there that you don't even know their name. They're still young, 19 years old, 18 years old, uh, they're just starting, but they still had the same type of grappling as Khabib. They still feel super strong and I'm like, "Who the heck is this guy?" So I'll look up his name and I'll be like, oh, 12-0, 15-0, 16-0.

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. BM

      And the whole team is full of killers. But I just want to bring their mentality, I think, is a different type of mentality that a lot of gyms don't have of being more disciplined. And I think that comes from being Muslim, I think a lot of it comes from that is, is just be- being religious. You're, you're bringing a different type of discipline where you have to pray five times a day and every single one of the guys is doing that. None of their guys are drinking, none of their guys are going out and partying.

    27. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    28. BM

      If there's guys that come to practice and they look a little bit tired, Khabib will take their phone away from them and he won't give it to 'em until the next day, tomorrow morning. So, he'll take their phone at night, 9:00 PM and then you have to go to sleep, get a good night's sleep, and then next practice he'll give you your phone back because you're probably on your phone all night playing games or something stupid.

    29. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    30. BM

      And he'll, like, he pays attention to those things and the fact that he wants you to win that bad, 'cause he doesn't need to be there, he doesn't need to give you the knowledge, he doesn't need to care that much about you if you don't care about yourself. But it just shows you like how much of a, uh, a great person he is too and it just makes you want to work that much harder for him.

  5. 11:48 – 16:22

    Ego, gym culture, and why smart sparring extends careers

    1. BM

      I feel like that's what a lot of these newer guys coming up... Um, I was training with, uh, Ohio State wrestler. He was in Vegas visiting and he was like gonna transition into MMA and he was telling me like, "Yeah, you know, I like this gym, but, uh, the, uh, and you know, in wrestling I'm killing the guys, but then I don't know nothing about sparring." So on sparring day, I'm telling these guys like, "You know, it's, I'm still learning." And then d- he said, "Everybody's trying to throw hard at me because I'm killing them in wrestling." And I'm like, "You gotta find a gym where the guys don't have egos where-"

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. BM

      "... they're gonna try to help you build yourself 'cause if you're sparring hard and you don't really know how to take a punch or anything, you're only gonna hurt yourself."

    4. JR

      Right, and you're gonna get your ticket punched too many times. And then by the time-

    5. BM

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      ... you get into fights, I mean, there's quite a few guys that I know that by the time they have their first or second pro fight, they've already had six, seven concussions in the gym, you know?

    7. BM

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      And like, man, like you're already at a deficit.

    9. BM

      Yeah, I look at-

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. BM

      ... when I go to gyms and I see a guy, like they're laughing about it. Like, "Oh, I gave... I knocked Chris out yesterday, man." And I'm, I'm looking at it like, w- like, "Why? Is that what you guys do?" And it's, it changes my mentality 'cause when I'm first coming up I used to like, we'll spar like 15-minute rounds, just non-stop boxing. And I'm, now when I think back to that, I'm like, "It was so stupid," because I know how to take a punch. Why am I gonna take a punch at practice-

    12. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    13. BM

      ... when I'm not getting paid for it? Like build the skills.

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. BM

      And if you find the right training partners, and I feel like I have like the perfect training partners where we spar super light and we're still getting that same movement, that same fluidity with the striking, with the speed, with everything, but we're not putting an extra oomph on it. And if you can't, if you don't have any guys like that in your gym, I think a lot of these guys are gonna have shorter careers or they're gonna get broken a lot earlier than they should have.

    16. JR

      It makes a big difference with timing too. Like, you, you really develop timing when you can get a guy who's willing to spar light with you, because then you're not thinking about the consequences of missing or getting countered and you could really just develop that ingrained timing. And occasionally hard sparring.

    17. BM

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      But hard sparring all the time, I mean, the early days of the UFC guys would just fight. They would go into the ring in, in, in their, their, whatever their gym was, and they would beat the fucking shit out of each other. And somewhere along the line people realized like, hey, this is, you can only sustain this for so long. You're not gonna have a long career doing this, and you're not gonna reach the best of your potential. Like when you look at all the variables that take place in a person reaching their full potential, I think one of the things you're doing that's really good is going to different places. I think that has a big factor, that, that make, that's a big factor. And being exposed yourself to the guys like Firas Alhabib or Khabib, or all these other different minds that can give you a different approach and you could take a little bit here and a little bit there. But also it's like being smart in your training and knowing when, when to push and when not, when you're being a bitch and when you're actually being a meathead, 'cause you're just going too hard and you're fucking your body up.

    19. BM

      Yeah. And a lot of guys had to learn that the hard way-

    20. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    21. BM

      ... where it takes them like, "Oh, I had a..." You know, when you're coming up, you're fighting for pennies. You're not, you're not fighting for anything. I'm, I used to fight for $150 and I would tell my family, "No, I'm making like 15,000."

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. BM

      And yeah, like I would sit there and lie to them. But it's 'cause you ha- you had that dream, you had that push.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. BM

      And you, and I had that end goal where I knew I, I was gonna make it, or I, I felt like I could have made it. So when I, I had, you gotta have, I think, leaders in the gym room that are gonna teach you the right things.

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    27. BM

      Because if you have those guys, and those bigger gyms I feel like there's so many UFC fighters in there, 20, 30, 40 guys. Yeah, it's great training partners, great things. But if it's a guy like trying to come up, on the come up-

    28. JR

      Right.

    29. BM

      ... or anything like that, they're gonna use you as a body for them.

    30. JR

      Yeah.

  6. 16:22 – 19:41

    Big gym vs small gym debate: coaching attention and true ‘team’ investment

    1. JR

      Yeah, the small gym versus the large gym, that's the big debate, 'cause some people think a place like American Top Team, they have dormitories. You got all these guys coming in from Russia and, and Morocco and all these, all these places, all parts of the world, they're coming to American Top Team. And, you know, you might get some sparring with some fucking killers, but how many coaches are really paying attention to you when you're just a guy who just started out there? Is this a good place to develop? Are you running the risk of being injured because you're just going to war every day, versus a small gym where you get individualized attention and people are really paying attention to you? But then it's like, which small gym? Like every small gym is different. Some small gyms are really good.

    2. BM

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      Some small gyms the guys are on point, they have a deep well of knowledge and they can really coach you. Some small gyms, the guy's kind of out of his league and, you know, he's bringing guys to the UFC and giving them shitty... I mean, you've, you see guys in the corner-

    4. BM

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      ... give shit advice. And you're hearing this guy like, he's not giving any technical advice at all. This dude is like, he's doing things, he's making mistakes and he's not getting any coaching. He's getting like, "Go out there and fucking win. Go out there and kick his ass." You're like, "What?" He doesn't-

    6. BM

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      Don't you think he already knows that? He knows that already. So that's a bad small gym, you know.

    8. BM

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      It's, it's really finding the right pla- and finding the right place is so crucial. It's so crucial. And finding the right training partner is so crucial.

    10. BM

      Yeah, I think the key, honestly, is training partner is you have to have the right guys that-

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. BM

      ... really care for you, 'cause I've been at gyms where guys really don't care if you win or lose.

    13. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. BM

      But if you have that family feel where they're gonna be in the gym for you no matter what, and they're gonna push for you and they're gonna watch your opponent and give you that opponent's look... Like in bigger gyms if I'm a UFC fighter and you're a UFC fighter, you're telling me I'm fighting Wonderboy. And, and in my smaller gym I had every single one of my five guys that I've trained with, all of them try to give me that Wonderboy look. They're all paying attention to what he does. "Hey, I think he does this extra." In a bigger gym they're like, "I'm not a karate guy. I'm gonna give you what I got."

    15. JR

      Right, right, right.

    16. BM

      He's like, "You want this or not? Uh, I, I gotta get paid too, uh, unless you're gonna pay me for it." But that's what I love about the smaller gyms is 'cause I fought Demian Maia. I didn't have one black belt in my, uh, gym. I didn't have one black belt that was helping me push or grapple. So I had the mi- mindset of I have great wrestlers that I'm training with. Every single one of my guys is a great wrestler, so I will... Let's just not hit the ground. Let's just push my, push my wrestling so hard that he's gonna tire himself out trying to take me down. So I don't have to overthink it, the situation. When I fought Wonderboy-I was, I'd been at camp with Anthony Pettis when he fought Wonderboy, I'd been at camp with Woodley when he fought Wonderboy. And Woodley brought in ...

    17. JR

      Mm.

    18. BM

      ... say he's northcut. Anthony Pettis, uh, was using Mike ... your roads, and they have that karate style.

    19. JR

      Mm.

    20. BM

      But for me, I was, uh, then I asked Anthony, like, "So, you think I should bring somebody in?" He's like, "Honestly, just watch this tape." It was, uh, I forgot who it was. It was a kickboxer that fought, uh, uh, Raymond Daniels-

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. BM

      ... and he like, lit him up. And he's like, "Watch this."

    23. JR

      Nicky Holzken.

    24. BM

      Uh, yeah.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. BM

      And he was like, "Watch, watch this." And he like, lit him up. And he's like, "Just follow that routine," 'cause, uh-

    27. JR

      Or it was Valtellini. It might've been Valtellini.

    28. BM

      Yeah, yeah.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. BM

      I think it was Valtellini.

  7. 19:41 – 24:28

    Cracking the Wonderboy puzzle: strategy, fear management, and public criticism

    1. JR

      Was he the most puzzling guy that you fought?

    2. BM

      Yeah, I think so. I, like, I never even wanted that fight. I was-

    3. JR

      (laughs)

    4. BM

      ... I was telling, I was telling my manager, I was like, "Bro, give me Chimaev."

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. BM

      I was like, I was like, because also just that Wonderboy is a guy you can't hate. Like-

    7. JR

      Right.

    8. BM

      ... I always love watching Wonderboy fight.

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. BM

      He's the nicest guy in the world.

    11. JR

      The nicest guy in the world.

    12. BM

      Yeah, and you gotta find a reason to hit him and-

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. BM

      ... and dislike him. Um, and just like, his highlight reel. And I'm looking at it, and like I said, I was in two camps watching these guys, and they're telling me like, "He's nothing like these other guys." He's like, "Kicks are snappier," he goes, "It hurts so much," and you're seeing him and I'm like, "Man, I do not wanna be on his highlight reel. I do not wanna get hit with a spinning heel kick."

    15. JR

      Mm.

    16. BM

      And he was coming off of a loss, and I feel like guys coming off of won losses, their mentality is different. They're that, they're that much hungrier-

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. BM

      ... where they wanna get it right back, so-

    19. JR

      I was so impressed with him in Kevin Holland fight. That Kevin Holland fight was amazing.

    20. BM

      Yeah, but mentality, like I said-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. BM

      ... Kevin Holland, I'm like, "Bro, you took him to the ground."

    23. JR

      Right. Why?

    24. BM

      Why you gotta stand up for ego?

    25. JR

      They made an agreement, apparently-

    26. BM

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      ... to not go to the ground. Like, Kevin, you're a black belt in jujitsu. And you're, you're like, in the top 10 of the division. Like, what are you doing, man? Like, you, you really could be a contender, a top contender.

    28. BM

      Literally, and beating a guy like Wonderboy, that name value right there-

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. BM

      ... the UFC already wants to push you. You have, you're, you know, you have a good push be- behind you with Holland-

  8. 24:28 – 54:39

    Bad judging and the Paddy Pimblett controversy: when fame affects outcomes

    1. JR

      Yeah, man. There's some bad judging, right? There's so, some of those fights we're like, "What in the fuck are you guys watching?"

    2. BM

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. BM

      Thinking back-

    5. JR

      But-

    6. BM

      ... to the Petty fight. I'm like-

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. BM

      ... we're get, we're in-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. BM

      I'm getting tagged in all the videos with you. And we were like, we were looking at each other.

    11. JR

      We're both looking at each other. I said to you-

    12. BM

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... right before I go, "He got it." I go, "Jarred got him."

    14. BM

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      And we both agreed. And then I looked at you like, "What the fuck?" That didn't make any sense. I thought it was two to one.

    16. BM

      Yeah, for sure. And then I'm re-watching it. I'm like, I'll go back-

    17. JR

      Yeah, we watched it.

    18. BM

      ... I'm re-watching and I'm sitting there like-

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. BM

      ... I still give it to Jarred. And it's like-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. BM

      ... no bias in- involved. Obviously, there may be, but I'm like-

    23. JR

      But just objectively-

    24. BM

      ... the stats.

    25. JR

      Yeah, like, just stats.

    26. BM

      You're looking at the stats. Tw- he out-struck him 21 to, like, 16 in the first round, and he took him down, and all the judges gave Still the first round to Paddy, and I'm like-

    27. JR

      It didn't make any sense.

    28. BM

      ... "How?"

    29. JR

      And he caught him clean with that left hook. He was landing that left hook on a regular basis.

    30. BM

      All day, yeah.

  9. 54:39 – 1:02:22

    MMA betting scandals (Krause/Discord), line moves, and the fallout for fighters

    1. JR

      What is your take on that whole thing? I don't know enough about what happened.

    2. BM

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      Do you know enough about what happened-

    4. BM

      I, I don't know enough-

    5. JR

      ... to comment on it?

    6. BM

      ... but it's ...

    7. JR

      Doesn't sound good.

    8. BM

      When I watch that fight, when I look at that fight, I'm like, "This guy said he had a injury, then he just fell do-" He lo- literally just fell down. Like, it looked like he threw the fight, the, the one who was cornering that day.

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. BM

      And then he came out afterward and said, "Oh, you know, I had a injury." But it was like, at least act a little bit more if you're gonna go in there and throw a fight. Like, it didn't make-

    11. JR

      What if you have an injury and you go and fight ... Uh, it says, "UFC's Jeff Molina suspended for alleged substantial involvement in ongoing James Krause investigation." Substantial.

    12. BM

      Yeah, they ... He was on, uh ... I've heard a thing that he was on, uh, his Discord, and he said that, like, Jeff Molina said that, like, "You know, I paid my, my mortgage, my house, my, my phone bill, everything with this Discord right here. Make sure you guys join it." So ...... like, he was pushing it hard, so I'm sure, you know-

    13. JR

      Oh.

    14. BM

      ... he was, he was under Krause.

    15. JR

      So his Discord, were they, th- is that something they were using for gambling?

    16. BM

      Yeah. I think somebody was telling me that-

    17. JR

      Jamie, you, you know, you're aware of this, right?

    18. NA

      Yeah, I know some of the details.

    19. JR

      Jamie was getting a big smile. (laughs) What do you know?

    20. NA

      Uh, what I heard, this is what I heard, there was up to, uh, 2,000 people using that Discord for gambling information.

    21. JR

      Mm.

    22. NA

      And most of it was probably MMA stuff, probably all sorts of sports were being talked about. Uh, but one fight in particular, the, the line changed right before the fight from like, I think the favorite was like maybe -220 or something like that, to then, like, negative 450, which is a 4/1 favorite.

    23. JR

      Mm.

    24. NA

      And more specifically, it was like a, of, uh, KO in the first round, and it happened in, like, 48 seconds or something.

    25. JR

      Oh.

    26. NA

      And that fighter had never been KO'd or something too is what I was hearing.

    27. JR

      So-

    28. NA

      But there was also way more going on.

    29. JR

      ... people knew there was an injury and they were letting people know that there was an injury-

    30. NA

      Right.

Episode duration: 2:57:11

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