EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,026 words- 0:00 – 2:48
From MMA retirement to triathlon obsession (and learning to swim)
- PFPaul Felder
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Paul Felder, ladies and gentlemen. How are you, sir?
- PFPaul Felder
I'm good, man. Thanks for having me, dude.
- JRJoe Rogan
My pleasure.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You, I, I love what you've done because, uh, I think every professional athlete, every fighter, when you're done competition, you need something to drive you. And you decided to go into triathlons, which I think is fucking awesome.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. Um, and I kinda ... I stumbled upon it. I didn't have any idea what I was gonna do when it was all said and done. I thought, you know, I'll be like everybody else. I'll do grappling competitions, I'll hit pads, I'll, I'll stay active. But, eh, that's still not the same as getting into the cage and, and actually fighting somebody. And I stumbled u- upon this guy, Lionel Sanders, who I kinda found on YouTube just looking up run workouts, 'cause I was getting bored during the pandemic. I, you know, I was going outside, I was going for these runs and they were getting boring. You just run miles. I was like, "How do guys do this?" You're just running to run all the time?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
And y- y- like, there's no, there's no structure or anything? And I found one of his workouts in Arizona where he was running. It was like a 107 degrees and he's doing like crazy tempo workouts and I was like, "Oh my God, that guy is-"
- JRJoe Rogan
What's a, what's a tempo workout?
- PFPaul Felder
So like, all your runs kind of break down into e- You know, you have your easy miles, aerobic, right? And then you have where you kind of go a little bit ... You're not quite going as hard as you're gonna go for a race, and that's like tempo. So you, you're upping your heart rate into that kind of zone three area where you're keeping it right there. You're not going threshold, which, you know, kind of just below all out. Um, and he was doing that, and it was like a 100 and something degrees. And I was like-
- JRJoe Rogan
(exhales) .
- PFPaul Felder
... "This dude's out of his f- fucking mind." And I started following all his stuff, and then I started realizing how crazy this sport is. If you really watch these guys, I mean, they're freak athletes, these guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
Plus MMA, right? You, you ... Wrestling, jujitsu, kickboxing, boxing, traditional martial arts. Well, now I found this other sport that's totally new to me that I know nothing about that I can dive into, and it's all these different disciplines. So I can be an idiot all over again-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
... and not just pick one sport. I can do a- a- all three of these things. And I didn't even know how to swim.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I heard that.
- PFPaul Felder
Like, I grew up in South Philly. I didn't-
- JRJoe Rogan
Bilal told me.
- PFPaul Felder
Oh bro.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
I swam with Bilal. If I, if I don't know how to swim, Bilal super doesn't know how to swim.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
He sucks.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
But he does it. Just like anything, he gets in there-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PFPaul Felder
... and he does it. I've swam with him. He's, he's done a triathlon.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really?
- 2:48 – 6:00
Half-Ironman basics and the brutal reality of 70.3 racing
- JRJoe Rogan
So these triathlons, like how, how long does it take to complete one of those?
- PFPaul Felder
Well, it depen- Right, e- There's sprint distance, which is a really short one. I mean, you can do those ... The guys are doing those like, you know, under an hour, um, like 45 minutes, 30 minutes you can do some of them. It's like a quarter of a mile swim. It'll be like a, a 10-mile bike, and then I think a 5K. I don't know, a little further on.
- JRJoe Rogan
And do you always ... It's always swim, bike, run?
- PFPaul Felder
Swim, bike, run. Unless you're doing like super league stuff, which is this, this other organization that's now kind of mixing up the order of which they'll do things. A lot of these races, they'll do swim, bike, run, swim, bike, run, swim, bike, run. So these dudes are literally ... And women, are tucking their caps in their goggles and stuff while they're riding on the bike and stuff like that. And then they pull it back out as they're sprinting to the water, putting their cap back on and their goggles and diving in after having just run, you know, probably like sub five minute miles, diving back into the water to not-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PFPaul Felder
... be able to breathe correctly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus.
- PFPaul Felder
It's the scariest thing of it all. But the ones I do the most are, uh, 70.3s. So it's like the half Ironman distance, so it's 70.3 miles. It's 1.2-mile swim, 56-mile bike, and then a half marathon.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. And I started with that, like an absolute jabroni that I am.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
Everybody's like, "Do a sprint, do an Olympic." I was like, "No, I wanna do this one," and I did and oh my God.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I remember the first time I saw you when we were getting ready for a show. We were in the green room-
- PFPaul Felder
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... getting changed.
- PFPaul Felder
I remember this.
- JRJoe Rogan
I was like, "What are you doing?" (laughs) Like, I'm like-
- PFPaul Felder
You look like shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm like, "Are you on Adderall or something?
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Are you on meth?"
- PFPaul Felder
You thought I looked like a crackhead.
- JRJoe Rogan
You looked like-
- PFPaul Felder
You looked like a crackhead, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You were so sucked in. That was-
- PFPaul Felder
'Cause I had just, I had just done that race.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- PFPaul Felder
So when you saw me, I was still trying to even ... Uh, like days ago I had done that race and, uh, it's like cutting weight.
- JRJoe Rogan
You must lose like fucking 20 pounds-
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- 6:00 – 8:01
Cardio as a weapon in MMA: Diaz brothers, pace, and demoralization
- JRJoe Rogan
But y- When you n- have a guy who has great endurance, they have such an advantage. Like, Nick Diaz in his prime would put a pace on people-
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that they could not fucking keep up with. I remember when Nick Diaz was at his peak, when he was in Strikeforce, when he was a champ over there.... you remember those days?
- PFPaul Felder
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, he was putting the fucking pace on people.
- PFPaul Felder
And he would get his ass beat for the first 5, 10 minutes of a fight?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, he would, he would force a slug fest. So someone would try to go all out.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he would be hitting them, like, 50, 60%. And then every now and then, he'd dig. Every now and then, he'd dig.
- PFPaul Felder
To the body in particular.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
Like the Paul Daley, I think, fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh, what a fight. What a fight.
- PFPaul Felder
I, I'll never forget that one. I'm like, "Oh, he's dead. He's done. There's no chance."
- JRJoe Rogan
Paul Daley has the most ridiculous left hand I think I've ever seen in the business.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He is so ... H- and he's so skillful.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, so slick in his maneuvering and, like, the way he sets up uppercuts and hooks.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
His fucking left hand is a weapon, man, and he bombed on Nate Diaz.
- PFPaul Felder
He crushed him.
- JRJoe Rogan
Woo!
- PFPaul Felder
Crushed him.
- JRJoe Rogan
I thought he was done.
- PFPaul Felder
And he just did what the Diaz brothers do. They take that shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's crazy.
- PFPaul Felder
Come on. Come on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's crazy how they take it.
- PFPaul Felder
And that's gotta ... Like, that demoralizes you, man. Like, you're in a f-
- 8:01 – 11:23
XTERRA, ocean swims, and the ‘getting eaten’ problem (sharks & open water)
- PFPaul Felder
He does, he does triathlons. And they do ... I know even just recently, a guy, uh, this kid Justin that I train with did XTERRA. He did an XTERRA race with him.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is an XTERRA?
- PFPaul Felder
He's like, "Dude." So th- It's more like, um, mountain biking, uh, trail running as opposed to, you know, the TT bike out on, on, on a highway type r- You know, the, the, the waters are a little bit more rugged. It'll be a little bit, uh, colder, crazier areas that you're racing in. So it's a little more like wilderness type racing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- PFPaul Felder
But it's still triathlon, still swim, bike, run. But the tr- Uh, you know, you'll be up and down, you'll be running through trails and, like, through trees and over stuff like that, and then they do-
- JRJoe Rogan
Running from bears, swimming away from sharks. (laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah, well ... Don't, don't talk about it. I was just in Rio, and I was swimming in the ocean every day, and I know everybody's like, "Oh, there's no sharks there," but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Are there no sharks there?
- PFPaul Felder
... dude, you can't help but when you're swimming in the open water, you kinda ... I had, like, a can of soda brush by me at one point.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
And I almost pooped myself, I swear to God.
- JRJoe Rogan
My friend Peter Attia, he swam, um, he swam all the Hawaiian islands.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He did this crazy swim. And he was training for this in San Diego, and-
- PFPaul Felder
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... w- I think the week he was training, some guy got eaten by a great white shark.
- PFPaul Felder
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
So he's out there in the very waters where a guy got bit in half.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And apparently they were all training for a triathlon, these people that were doing it.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So there was, like, a run of them. There was like, you know, like, 10, 15 guys swimming, and just one of them ka-chunk.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. My first race this year is in Oceanside, so ...
- JRJoe Rogan
Where's Oceanside?
- PFPaul Felder
It's, like, outside of San Diego. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Jesus. Oh, Jesus. Oh, God.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah, April, April 1st.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, my goodness.
- PFPaul Felder
April 1st.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck.
- 11:23 – 14:28
Alligators, crocodiles, and nature tangents (Florida water is never safe)
- PFPaul Felder
Well, I was ... I did a race in Florida and there was 100% a gator, um, o- off on the side that somebody s- sent me a picture, thank God, after the race. They're like, "Oh, by the way, this was sitting on the side of the lake that you guys were swimming in just waiting for us to finish."
- JRJoe Rogan
I- If you're in Florida, virtually any body of water could have an alligator.
- PFPaul Felder
Could have 100%. You could, you could-
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is so weird.
- PFPaul Felder
You could be, like, in a development-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
... and there's, like, a little pond, and they might just be like, "Oh, I'm just gonna go take a splash in here."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh yeah, I remember, like, uh, a year ago, uh, some old lady who was, uh, walking in this beautiful gated community in North Carolina and she got snatched up.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. They'll eat dogs and stuff like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I used to live in Gainesville. When I lived there, um, the ... Back then, alligators were endangered so you couldn't kill them. So they were everywhere and, uh, people would feed them marshmallows. There's a place called Lake Alice. We'd go to Lake Alice and throw marshmallows in the water.
- PFPaul Felder
I wonder why marshmallows of all things?
- JRJoe Rogan
... people. It just, they found out they would eat them, so they'd throw them in, you know? He-
- PFPaul Felder
Throw some graham crackers out them too-
- JRJoe Rogan
They'd eat chicken too. They'd eat meat, whatever the fuck you wanna feed them.
- PFPaul Felder
That's what I would think. I would think-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
... protein.
- JRJoe Rogan
But they're fucking monsters. I hate those things. They, they really drive me crazy.
- PFPaul Felder
I mean, they're truly, you know, a dinosaur-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
... basically, that still, still lives.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, just a heartless fucking reptile. Whoa.
- PFPaul Felder
Just wants to rip your leg off.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa. And not-
- PFPaul Felder
And roll.
- JRJoe Rogan
I, there's a video that I put up on my, uh, Instagram from one of those, like, um, nature is brutal, or-
- PFPaul Felder
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, nature is metal pages.
- 14:28 – 19:11
Retirement decision and Felder’s origin story: TKD kid → theater major → fighter
- JRJoe Rogan
What, what was the catalyst for you deciding to retire? Because you retired in, like, prime age. Like, you were, like, how old were you when you first decided?
- PFPaul Felder
I guess when, when I first set it after the Hooker fight, I was, I guess 37.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, so it's, like, at the end of-
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
But I started late too. Um, I didn't turn professional until I was 28, I think.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PFPaul Felder
Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
When was your first, uh, amateur fight?
- PFPaul Felder
I think I was, like, 20- 26.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, when did you start training?
- PFPaul Felder
Well, so I did TaeKwonDo since I was a little kid. Started 12 years old doing that. And competed Junior Olympics, Olympics, you know, wearing the hogus and all that kind of stuff. Did all the traditional TaeKwonDo tournaments. And I used to get kicked out of some of these things 'cause I'd throw punches or I'd-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
... throw too hard. Like, I remember one time my mom ended up getting into this huge argument with this guy because I was hitting her son too hard in a martial arts competition.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, the parents. (laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
But I d- Oh, dude.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sports parents. (laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
And my mom is, like, the sweetest woman in the world, but as soon as somebody talks ill of me or steps to me, my mom's ready to throw down. She's the one who taught me how to fight, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah, I got s- I g- I got stories about Mom. But I did that all the way through until I was in college.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you were, um-
- PFPaul Felder
And then I went to acting school.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you were a theater major.
- PFPaul Felder
I went to school for theater, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
And I kinda stopped training hardcore, but still taught karate at the school that I had got my black belt at when I was a kid while, while going to school in Philly for acting. I was still teaching the little kids.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- PFPaul Felder
And then I was working professionally in, like, the Philadelphia theater scene, which isn't anything major, but there's some good professional theater companies there. I was doing that for a little while. And in the summers, the theaters, they're, they're dark. There's not much going on. And a buddy of mine that I used to train with took an amateur fight. And I used to kind of get the better of him and he went and did well in this amateur fight down in, uh, down in Atlantic City. New Breed Fighting, w- was what it was called. And I was like, "I could, I could do that." So I waited a whole year, did the next summer, signed up for one of those fights. And dude, that was it. That walkout, the crowd, like, all your friends and family being there, you're walking out to fight somebody else. I, I remember having migraines. I remember, like, vomiting afterwards. I was so anxious, so nervous. And I won. And I remember telling all my acting friends at the time, we were, we were drinking in, like, the back of somebody's, uh, like, South Philly row home, and they're like, "That was crazy, man. Are you done?" And I was like, "Fuck no." I was like, "I have to do that again. And I have to do it better than I did that time." And so a year later, I signed up for another one, following summer, New Breed. But I knew what to do now, so I trained properly. I went to a Muay Thai school to train for it. I did jujitsu for it. And I beat the crap out of this kid in my second fight, leg kicked the dog shit out of him. And it was a decision, but I was like, "All right, that was cleaner." Then I did another one. And now, I thought I was too cool for school, and I got choked out in my third amateur fight, got triangle choked by this kid Max Bohannon who was, like, a prodigy f- uh, from, um, he was from, um, Ricardo Almeida school and trained with him. And he choked the shit out of me. And then I was like, "Okay, now I got to start doing real grappling and real jujitsu," and I started training with jujitsu schools and stuff like that. And I did one more amateur fight, a spinning back kick to the liver, I knocked this kid out in my fourth amateur fight. And then I went pro because the rules in PA, shin guards-
- 19:11 – 21:14
Regional rise to the UFC and the weight-cutting regret
- JRJoe Rogan
So you get some fights in some small organizations?
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then how old-
- PFPaul Felder
Mainly- mainly Cage Fury, who, uh, you know ... Thank God, that's- that's kind of who I stumbled upon, 'cause so I was already kind of with one of the better regional promotions to begin with. I lucked out with that. I fought in Pittsburgh, I think, once or twice, and then, um, yeah, and I fought for CFFC.
- JRJoe Rogan
And how many fights did you have before you got into the UFC?
- PFPaul Felder
I was eight-no. I was eight-no when I got, when I got signed. I, uh, I think I had like s- six knockouts, a bunch in the first round, and that's when I started putting the acting l- like way on the, on the back burner. I was like, "Wow, I'm, I might actually be able to get into the UFC." It was n-... That- that was never, I mean, never the goal, was- was to get in the UFC from the beginning. But then once I started winning, I always trained my ass off, you know, j- just like I am with triathlon or whathe- whether it be acting, whether it be fighting, commentary. Like, I'm trying to put myself into it. And, uh, it... The wins started coming, and then I remember I knocked out, um, this kid in- in, um, Atlantic City in my last fight with CFFC, a spinning hook kick to the... Yeah, this is, this is it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
Bam.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- PFPaul Felder
And look, I- I got more damage from the ref throwing me into the, into the (laughs) cage than I did in that whole fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
What did you weigh here?
- PFPaul Felder
I was 155. I was just smaller. You know, years-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's right.
- PFPaul Felder
Dude, think about y- like, you know how it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
The- the years and years of you doing strength and conditioning and you building up those muscles and your bones get denser and stuff like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
So, I mean, by the time I got to the UFC... Plus, the lightweights were so big. I remember thinking, like, "I have to be, I have to be bigger than these guys."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
And I had this complex that I had to weigh so much, so I'd go and get so fat in between fights. I'm t-... It's one regret I have. Looking back, I would have stayed leanar and in better shape all year round and not done the drastic weight cuts that I did. Um...
- 21:14 – 25:17
The toll of fighting: rhabdo, kidney scares, lung surgery, and broken bones
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that, like, the thing that you worry the most about? We were talking about that earlier.
- PFPaul Felder
Well, I know for sure that I've hurt my kidneys, uh, to the point where even after fights... Like, I've had rhabdo after the Dan Hooker fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
I was, like, peeing Coca-Cola.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh.
- PFPaul Felder
And they made me stay in the hospital for, like, an extra day or two to monitor my kidneys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh.
- PFPaul Felder
I almost had, um, I almost had compartment syndrome from that fight. They were gonna have to slice my calf open. I've obviously lost a piece of my lung in the James Vick fight. Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
How'd that happen?
- PFPaul Felder
The end of the fight, he knees me and it pushed in my rib cage. A lot of people thought my rib cage broke, it didn't. Nothing broke, but I had a... They call it, like, a bleb on your lung, that you would know- you would only know about if somebody went in there or something happened to it. So it's like a bubble that naturally forms on your lungs, and it's- it's okay, unless something hits it. Well, that knee just so happened to hit right on that spot, and it just so happened that I had this thing on my lung, and it burst.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- PFPaul Felder
So it collapsed my lung. And since it collapsed, that part of my lung was then damaged, and it wouldn't... Normally, i- if you, like, fall really hard doing snowboarding or something like that, or, you know, if you're rock climbing, you fall and you land on your- your ribs, you can- you can puncture them by breaking your ribs, or you can just... The impact can kind of almost, like, blow it out. And a lot of times they'll go back on their own. Like, they'll- they'll reinflate. Your- your lungs will kind of heal themselves. Or they put... They call it, like, a pigtail or something. They inserted this- this tube down into my lung, which was like a vacuum. It would suck the air around my lung and my chest wall out, forcing the lung to go back around where it was supposed to, and that wouldn't work. So, like, three days went by, they did that for a couple of days, it wasn't working. Then finally, the- the surgeons came in and they're like, "We're gonna have to go in, find where the bleb was, cut it out, staple your lung shut, and then adhere your lung to your chest wall." So my left lung is attached to my... the inside of my chest wall.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
Like an elephant. Apparently elephants, their- their lungs are actually atta- attached to the inside of their chest wall. So this lung, like, if you stab me here, and it c-... Like, I... It would never fully collapse again.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PFPaul Felder
I'm like a superhero on this side. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Does it change the way you move?
- PFPaul Felder
Except for the inch that I'm missing from it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Does it change the way your body moves? Do you feel it?
- PFPaul Felder
No. I- I will get a cramp every now and then in the surgery area that they have. I still have a scar that goes right across-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
... like, like Jesus, like where they...
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
It's, like, right along here.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PFPaul Felder
That was miserable, dude. That, and that was one, that's one of the many things, I know we kinda went on a tangent, but retirement was like, "I can't." I just can't.
- JRJoe Rogan
You broke your forearm in the Mike Perry fight.
- PFPaul Felder
I broke my forearm in that one. You guys called that one nice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
You could tell by the way I was, I was holding my hand funny. And I remember i- in between rounds going like this, and I could feel the bones crunching together on this side.And I told Duke-
- 25:17 – 28:56
Leg kicks and calf kicks: why they’re misunderstood (and how they changed the sport)
- PFPaul Felder
I love the ... You know what I regret never getting, injury-wise? I know it sounds silly to say, but the slices on the shin that you see all these guys get-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
... from checking kicks and your shin is just, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- PFPaul Felder
... pouring blood.
- JRJoe Rogan
Bro, whose shins are harder than Jan Blachowicz?
- PFPaul Felder
(sighs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That Ankalaev fight? And he's just like going-
- PFPaul Felder
He mangled him then.
- JRJoe Rogan
... shin to shin with him.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, holy fuck, man.
- PFPaul Felder
He's Polish, guys, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's him. I don't know if it's all Polish guys, but that motherfucker-
- PFPaul Felder
He's tough.
- JRJoe Rogan
... made out of wood.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He, he's different.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. He m- I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
He just went shin to shin with him.
- PFPaul Felder
He doesn't care.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I mean, that, that was very, very impressive, 'cause we were like, "This is crazy."
- PFPaul Felder
That hurts, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
You've don- you've gone shin to sh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
It hurts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Horrible. And he's just cracking them.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just getting in there with it.
- 28:56 – 34:28
Adesanya vs Pereira: power, size, style differences, and the rematch questions
- PFPaul Felder
Apparently so has, uh, Alex Pereira.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
Ma- made Glover watch it every time he comes over.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really? (laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
He put ... Apparently, he puts it on.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, I watched-
- PFPaul Felder
Man.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it again, and it ... It's that first round. That first round, he fucking really chops at it. Real- he's got a very strange style. It's very uniquely-
- PFPaul Felder
Pereira?
- JRJoe Rogan
... his, yeah. The standup style, it's very different. Like, his hands, he, he stands like this.
- PFPaul Felder
He's just freakishly long-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
... and big for that weight class.
- JRJoe Rogan
And his power is preposterous.
- PFPaul Felder
You can t- You ever see some of those guys ... Like, when you look at certain skinny guys, and I'm not calling him ... He's not like a s-
- JRJoe Rogan
He's lean.
- PFPaul Felder
But he's lean, and you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Tall and lean.
- PFPaul Felder
Those guys are the guys I worry about.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
Because it's those guys that hit freakishly hard that ... It's the, the big muscle guys, you know that guy is gonna hit you hard. But it's these sneaky, tall, lean guys, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Those Tommy Hearns-looking dudes.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. And they just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
They ... When they turn into those hooks-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
... his left hook.
- JRJoe Rogan
So much torque and leverage. His fucking left hook is a thing of beauty, man.
- 34:28 – 37:18
Weight, muscle, and nutrition myths—plus Oliveira’s transformation
- PFPaul Felder
And the other thing that drives me nuts about when I hear these fighters, and I think it's really the strength and conditioning coaches feeding bullshit more than it is the fighters. They're just listening to what they're being told, but you don't put on 20 pounds of muscle in a month. You ever hear these guys in fighter meetings? We'll be talking to them and they'll be like, "Well, you know, I put on about 10 pounds of lean muscle mass for this camp." I'm like, "This particular camp, you've put on-"
- JRJoe Rogan
In six weeks.
- PFPaul Felder
"... 10 pounds, 10 pounds of muscle mass."
- JRJoe Rogan
How are you gonna pass your piss test? (laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. What are you, um, uh, what supplements are you taking for that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. (laughs) Hair quotes, hair quote, "supplements."
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. Like get the fuck... You didn't put on 10 pounds of muscle.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That's a lot of weight.
- PFPaul Felder
You're out of your mind.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah, you probably gained some water weight. And it's also, it's like-
- PFPaul Felder
You got stronger.
- JRJoe Rogan
What kind of scanning are they doing of their body composition before they say these things? Are they doing-
- PFPaul Felder
It's the coach doing the eyeball scan saying, "But you put on 10 pounds of muscle for this one."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Well, you know, I always go back to the Roy Jones Jr., um, uh, Ruiz fight. When he fought John Ruiz, he went up to heavyweight, remember?
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he got very muscular. He was real big. He was about... I mean, he wasn't too heavy for a heavyweight. I th- I wanna say Roy weighed like 200 pounds, just a little over 200 pounds maybe. See what, what he weighed for that John Ruiz fight. Does it say?
- PFPaul Felder
193.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, was it really? That's all he weighed?
- PFPaul Felder
Well, the heavyweight for bo- f- wha- what, the heavyweight for boxing is different, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
That says that, but I think that's now. They're saying now he weighs 193. But what did he weigh when he fought John Ruiz? So just, uh, s- does it say there? No, he said he weighed 193 and Ruiz was 226.
- PFPaul Felder
Oh, he was 226, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Interesting. But, you know, Roy was so fucking talented. But when Roy went down in weight and then fought Tarver in his next fight, he looked deflated.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He looked like he had just really drained himself to make that weight cut.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah, that's why when you see these guys drop down, man, it's...
- JRJoe Rogan
Look terrible and then got knocked out.
- PFPaul Felder
Very few people can do it. Jose Aldo, somehow.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm, I don't know how he's doing it.
- PFPaul Felder
Came down and looked great.
- JRJoe Rogan
Still look good. I think what happened with Aldo is he never really had a, a serious nutritionist.
- 37:18 – 50:34
Wanting to come back, being a commentator, and social media pressure
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. I joked about ... I've talked to like Nikzic and Brian Butler, my manager, I'm like, "Well, maybe I'll come back at 145."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
And they were like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." And I talked to Ian Larios, who does all my weight cuts, he's like, "Are you outta your (censored) mind, dude?" He's like, "Just 'cause you're skinnier now doesn't mean you can drop a whole weight class and have no, uh, m- trouble making that weight."
- JRJoe Rogan
Were you thinking about it at one point in time, of doing one more fight?
- PFPaul Felder
Oh, man, I've th- I've thought about it many, many times.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you think about it after Oliveira became the champ?
- PFPaul Felder
(smacks lips)
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause y- when you beat Oliveira-
- PFPaul Felder
He was not ... Yeah, he, um ... (sighs) You know, not really, because we were on such different trajectories. It's like, just 'cause I ... at the time, I had a win, which I loved having over him. I loved being the last guy that had beaten the champion, which is no longer the case, but, uh, like, for me to come back and think I'm gonna even come close to getting that match up, it's like, "Well, that's not gonna happen. I'm gonna have to win and beat all these insane, hungry contenders before I even get to sniff at that, that belt, so ..."
- JRJoe Rogan
He was an interesting case. He still is an interesting case, because he was a guy who was kind of known as the guy who fell apart.
- PFPaul Felder
A quitter, a little bit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Cub Swanson knocked him out. A go- a bunch of guys had beat him.
- PFPaul Felder
Max Holloway had like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
... that weird-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
... neck thing going on.
- JRJoe Rogan
What happened to the Max Holloway fight?
- PFPaul Felder
Remember? He had like a weird, uh, stinger almost in his neck, I think.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't-
- PFPaul Felder
And he kinda just crumbled in the corner and, and like tapped out. I think it was a legit thing with his-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
... with his neck.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah, I remember that.
- PFPaul Felder
It was kinda scary.
- JRJoe Rogan
I forgot about that. Yeah, man.
- PFPaul Felder
But, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Fucking stingers.
- 50:34 – 54:10
Diet debates and food nostalgia: vegan skepticism, carnivore months, bread lust
- PFPaul Felder
That's the one thing I, I c- I can't ... John Gooden too, I c- I can't, I can't ... I just can't get on that, on that bandwagon.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't think it's good for you. I, I mean, may- it might be okay for some people, but it's not ... I don't believe it's the optimum diet. And this has come from many, many, many conversations with n- nutritionists.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. A- and, and, and vegans too, and trying to listen to people that are vegan. You can do it and pull it off, but you have to really be careful, and you have to really mind your macronutrients and really pay attention to what you're taking in. Yeah, because it just seems so easy to take way too much of, uh, uh, of, you know, processed shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not just that. It's you definitely could do that, but it's also, your body's not absorbing ... Like, when people go ... You can't go one-to-one with animal products versus, like, broccoli. Like, if you say, like, "Oh, I got 25 grams of protein from broccoli." No, you didn't.
- PFPaul Felder
Mm-hmm. Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause your body's not absorbing it the same.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah, with all that fiber-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Some bile available.
- PFPaul Felder
... you're gonna, you're just gonna be farting all the time is what's gonna end up happening.
- JRJoe Rogan
You're definitely gonna be farting all the time. But some people have done it right. They can do it. It can be done right. I just don't think it's the optimal diet. You know, I r- I really believe that, uh, red meat and, and, you know, this is very controversial, but it's backed up by science. It re- it really is. Uh, red meat is one of the most n- nutrient-dense foods.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. No, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, all of our ideas about what's bad and what's good, uh, we've been hoodwinked. We've been hoodwinked by, uh, uh, a bunch of fucked-up studies that were conducted by the sugar companies because they paid scientists off to lie about the dangers of saturated fat. And that is just in everyone's consciousness.
- PFPaul Felder
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then, you know, there's always people, "What about your cholesterol? What about that? What about this? What about that?" Th- I get my blood work done all the time. I'm healthy as fuck.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And-
- PFPaul Felder
So you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
And you are eating-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
... a lot of red meat.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm eating mostly meat. All of-
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... January, I, I go on the carnivore diet. I do it every year. I just, all January, eat nothing but meat. I feel fucking great.
- PFPaul Felder
You don't crave, like, uh ... Oh, I guess you do, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I do crave ... I do cheat. I cheated a couple times.
- PFPaul Felder
What's your cheat?
- JRJoe Rogan
I cheat. I ate, I ate sushi.
- PFPaul Felder
What's your go-to? Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
I had some sushi. That was really good. Uh, it's, but it's just rice. I cheated with rice. I cheated a little bit-
- 54:10 – 59:48
Philadelphia pride: cheesesteaks, iconic food identity, and local fight culture
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, I know it's terrible for you. But, like, like, look, you're from Philly. A fucking cheesesteak sub.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah, it's not good for you.
- JRJoe Rogan
A real good one, a real good one would just ... Fucking hot, and you rip it apart at the middle and take a bite into it, and just the crunch of the bread on the outside and the juiciness.
- PFPaul Felder
It's the bread.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, it's everything.
- PFPaul Felder
It's the bread, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
Even our h- like, all the hoagies and stuff like that, you get the, like, the hard seed it rolls.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- PFPaul Felder
That's the way to go. Look at that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at that. Jesus, look at that. That looks good.
- PFPaul Felder
Eat that, Bilal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that looks so good.
- PFPaul Felder
Philly doesn't suck. Chicago sucks. Go Birds.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look how good that looks. God, that looks good.
- PFPaul Felder
That's what the w- that's whiz wit right there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- PFPaul Felder
That's whiz wit.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's funny how Philly became, like, known for cheesesteaks.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, uh, that is the food of Philadelphia.
- PFPaul Felder
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? If you, if you asked someone, like ... I don't think there's another place like that in terms of, like, a sandwich that's completely connected to one city.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. Well, uh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Name, name another place.
- PFPaul Felder
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
... I can't, I guess-
- PFPaul Felder
Like I get, you got, you, Chicago's got the, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Deep dish.
- PFPaul Felder
Like, and they... And what's their sand- They do like the, they do a beef sandwich too in Chicago, like, uh-
- 59:48 – 1:07:04
Camps, coaches, and the sport’s evolution: Cowboy’s ranch, Duke Roufus, scoring, and what’s next
- JRJoe Rogan
So when you were doing that, did you have an MMA gym or were you training, were you cross-training on your own? Like going to a boxing gym, a Muay Thai gym, a jujitsu gym?
- PFPaul Felder
So back then we, at Daniel Gracie's gym in North Philly, we had, uh... If you went into our basement gym, there was a like sliding old school door that went into another basement and, you know, it was just like all old warehouses that were turned into studios like this or, or boxing gy- and next door to us was a, was a boxing gym.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PFPaul Felder
So we would... We started sharing the space. So we would work with, uh, Bozy and all those guys and his sons and his he- who are... You know, there's... He's got other sons who didn't make it the way Boots is now but they would spar with us, help us out, hold pads for us. So that, that was kinda just like a little collab that we had going at the time but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow, that's fortunate.
- PFPaul Felder
It was great.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's amazing.
- PFPaul Felder
It was great.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's amazing.
- PFPaul Felder
And they would... I remember some of the pro boxers there would just jab. Like you'd, you'd be trying to beat their asses and you'd find out after the session that they, "Yeah, I was just throwing jabs."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PFPaul Felder
Like, "Look, think back." He's like, "Did I ever hit you with a right hand?" It's like, "No, you were only jabbing me in the face." And I was trying to take your head off for, you know-... six rounds or whatever it was.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they were just sharpening up tools on you.
- PFPaul Felder
They were just, they were just working on one thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
Or maybe just defense, not even punching you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that would be a thing that Rickson Gracie would always do with people. You know, like he would, uh, just go for left arm bars.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So he would train with everybody and just like-
- PFPaul Felder
That's the best way to do it if you're, if you're significantly better than somebody.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PFPaul Felder
"Okay, well, how can I handicap myself so that I'm still working while you're still working."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PFPaul Felder
It's s- s- just a good way to train.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's, it's hard for a guy who's that much better than everybody else to get real good, solid work in.
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. Just don't, nobody on that level.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. So what was the first... Was Duke's the first, uh, actual MMA gym? I know you did some training with Cowboy too, right?
- PFPaul Felder
Yeah. So, h- way back when I was still an amateur, he had like the tap out house back then where he had bunk beds in his own house, and he would rent it out. And you could just come and experience training with Donald and Leonard Garcia at the time. So I would... I flew out after sparring with him at a seminar and he's like, "You know what? You don't even have to pay. Just come out and you can train with us. You can live in the house and be a sparring partner." And then after experiencing that mess of living in bunk beds with these other fighter dudes sharing one bathroom, bro, in the back of his house, 'cause the way they had the ranch set up is Leonard had like this middle area, Cowboy had his own bedroom with a bathroom in the back, and then all of us dudes were just in like four bunk beds.
- JRJoe Rogan
How many guys were in the house together?
- PFPaul Felder
Man, we'd have... Uh, there'd be like 10 guys at a time.
Episode duration: 3:08:14
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Transcript of episode ED-2YGEJKWE
