JRE MMA Show #14 with Matt Brown

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Four, three, two, one.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Four, three, two, one. Boom, and we're live. What's up, brother? How are you?

   2. MBMatt Brown0:06

      Yeah, I'm very, very good.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Thanks for doing this, man. I'm very excited to have you in here.

   4. MBMatt Brown0:09

      Yeah. I'm honored to be here, man. I was just thinking about this the other day, actually. I was like, the fucking people that have been on this show, man.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      (laughs) Yeah, I think about it sometimes too.

   6. MBMatt Brown0:20

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      Freaks me out.

   8. MBMatt Brown0:20

      Uh, Sam Harris, James Hetfield. Uh, man, I, uh, yeah. I was thinking about all the people, man. I was like, "How do I compete with these guys?"

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      Just be Matt Brown.

   10. MBMatt Brown0:31

       I know.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       What are you talking about, man?

   12. MBMatt Brown0:32

       I know. I mean, I could beat all their asses, but...

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       (laughs)

   14. MBMatt Brown0:34

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Well, in certain situations, that's all that counts. (laughs)

   16. MBMatt Brown0:39

       (laughs) The situations that I thrive in. (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Exactly. So, uh, you were retired and now you're not. Now you just signed a fight with Carlos Condit?

   18. MBMatt Brown0:46

       You got it.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Damn, that's a good fight. I like that.

   20. MBMatt Brown0:50

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       I think Carlos needed to fight back too. That fight with Neil Magny, he looked like he was suffering through some ring rust. Looked-

   22. MBMatt Brown0:57

       Yeah, man.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       ... a little bit timing.

   24. MBMatt Brown0:59

       You, you got to... Uh, I've talked to a lot of people about that 'cause that's the first thing that always comes up, right, is how he came back and looked in that fight. And I've trained with Neil a lot, man, and I'll tell you, Neil can shut a fucking game down right away.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       Yeah.

   26. MBMatt Brown1:10

       You know?

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       He's very good.

   28. MBMatt Brown1:11

       It's-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Very underrated.

   30. MBMatt Brown1:11

       Yeah, you can't take away from Neil, man.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Heel hooks? (laughs) …

   1. MBMatt Brown15:00

      or anything. We're like, "Oh, this is what he's doing. This is how you do it."

   2. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:02

      Heel hooks? (laughs)

   3. MBMatt Brown15:03

      Just... Yeah, heel hooks and... I mean, I don't remember all the techniques, but I remember it was, like, you know, pankration stuff, right?

   4. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:09

      Right.

   5. MBMatt Brown15:09

      And we'd just be laying there, and it, and it was always a thought of, like, "Dude, this is fucking awesome, man." Like, "I could beat Tank Abbott." Like, "We-"

   6. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:16

      (laughs)

   7. MBMatt Brown15:19

      (laughs) You know, and we would joke about it, man. We would say... I remember specifically sitting there and being like, like, "Dude," like, you know, "we're gonna get you a fight in, um, you know, the local Joe Schmo Show and then, uh, you know, we're gonna get you up and you're gonna go to a Pride and then you're gonna go to the UFC." And I was like, "Oh, cool. The hell yeah. Let's do it." And that was, you know... It was like a joke, kinda, but that, like, that was what was in my head. That's-

   8. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:43

      So that was your first-

   9. MBMatt Brown15:43

      That's what we were gonna do.

   10. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:44

       ... introduction to martial arts?

   11. MBMatt Brown15:46

       Yeah.

   12. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:47

       So what was your first real formal training? Like, what, what gym did you first-

   13. MBMatt Brown15:51

       So I fought before I trained.

   14. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:53

       Get the fuck outta here. (laughs)

   15. MBMatt Brown15:56

       Yeah. (laughs)

   16. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:57

       (laughs)

   17. MBMatt Brown15:57

       Yeah, so-

   18. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)15:57

       (laughs)

   19. MBMatt Brown15:59

       (laughs) So actually, this, this guy that was... Uh, um, he was supposed to go fight Wes Simms, and, uh, his name was Fat Joe, is what we called him. He was supposed to go fight Wat Simms- um, Fat Simms, Wes Simms that day, and I said, "Yeah, let's go, man. I wanna go with you. I wanna see this shit up close," right? So we go there and, um, I'm, I'm doing a bunch of coke on the way, and you know, to me it's just gonna be a party. Like, I'm just gonna watch my dude fight. I get there and, uh, you know, there's a... He signs up on the table, and I was like, I was like, "Dude, what... Is that how... You know, that's all you gotta do?" He's like, "Yeah." He said, "You just pay 30 bucks and you come fight." I said, "M- man, maybe I should do that." And then-

   20. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)16:38

       (laughs)

   21. MBMatt Brown16:38

       ... the, the guy- and I'm, I'm looking inside and I see the, uh, you know, people sitting around smoking cigars. It's like you see on a movie. People smoking cigars, you see bets being made and stuff and, and, uh, the guy goes, "Man, you wanna fight the champion?" Like, "Nobody wants to fight him." And I was like, "Fuck yeah, man. I'll fight him. Are you kidding me?" So I literally went across the street. There's a sporting goods store across the street, or down the street or something. Went and bought a mouthpiece, come back. Uh, there's a restaurant across the street. Boiled the mouthpiece at the restaurant, used their microwave, come back, and then, uh, uh, and then we're at the fighters' meeting. So the fighters' meeting back then was a lot different. So there wasn't weigh-in. It was like, "You and you. You guys look about the same size. Uh, you guys doing kickboxing? Uh, okay, you guys fight." Right? So that's how, the way it worked out. And I'm sitting there and they're like, "Okay, you're the champion. You're fighting him." And I was like, "Oh, shit. All right. Fuck this motherfucker," right?

   22. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)17:28

       (laughs)

   23. MBMatt Brown17:28

       And, uh, you know, so I'm sitting

   24. NANarrator17:31

       (laughs)

   25. MBMatt Brown17:31

       ... meditating this guy. He taught me how to do a jab. He's like, man, he's like, "All you gotta do to beat this guy, just jab him." He's like, "You see this? Just throw this jab." And I was like, "Oh, okay. I'm gonna do that." And, uh, went out there and I beat the guy. So he actually-

   26. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)17:44

       What?

   27. MBMatt Brown17:44

       ... quit. Yeah, he actually quit, you know? So he was a tough man champion is what he was. And, uh, I actually threw a jab, punched him in the face, and he went to shoot, uh, on me. I did, you know, a, a playground guillotine choke, and he just quit. I don't think I actually had the choke in. I don't... I highly doubt, you know. But-

   28. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)18:00

       Did he tap?

   29. MBMatt Brown18:01

       He tapped out saying that his calf cramped up.

   30. GSGuest (Matt Brown’s interviewer-style follow-up / co-conversationalist segment)18:05

       (laughs)
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. MBMatt Brown30:00

      books, of, uh, martial arts books, all this stuff. Um, I mean, it's literally on my mind 24 hours a day. But one of the things I really focus on is the, the sports psychology part and I think that is why it's expressed that way in the fight. Um, and you hear a lot of people, they'll say... You hear... How l- how often have you heard, like, "Man, you know, my mind's already strong. Like, I ain't scared when I walk in there." Or, or stupid shit like that.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:24

      Yeah.

   3. MBMatt Brown30:25

      And, and I always say-... you know, do you think Michael Jordan stopped practicing layups? Do you think Jordan Burroughs stopped practicing double legs? Do you think that Arnold Schwarzenegger stopped doing bicep curls? Uh, because it's good doesn't mean that you stop-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:38

      Can't be improved upon. Right.

   5. MBMatt Brown30:39

      Yeah. It can be improved upon, and you don't stop, so. And I think the mind is one of those things that, um, can always be better. Like, we're not tapping into... I mean, what are we tapping into, like, 10% of our brains at, at best?

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:51

      That's all bullshit.

   7. MBMatt Brown30:52

      Yeah?

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:52

      No, that's, yeah, that's bullshit. Yeah. They used to think that.

   9. MBMatt Brown30:55

      Oh, fuck.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       They used to think that. It's-

   11. MBMatt Brown30:56

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:56

       They used to s- th- that's something they say, but, uh, the reality is, uh, your brain has a bunch of different quadrants for all sorts of different functions.

   13. MBMatt Brown31:04

       Okay.

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:05

       So when, you know, you're utilizing a certain portion of your brain, that's the portion of your brain that's responsible for those actions.

   15. MBMatt Brown31:12

       Okay.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:12

       Yeah. There's not-

   17. MBMatt Brown31:13

       Either way our, our-

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:14

       We don't know-

   19. MBMatt Brown31:14

       ... minds are certainly far more unlimited and far more potential than we're tapping into, right? Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       Well, I think your mind is a lot like your body, and y- it performs and it does what you ask of it.

   21. MBMatt Brown31:24

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       And if you just are a lazy bitch who doesn't do anything but sit around and watch TV, and you don't ever challenge your mind, I think your mind is weak, and it atrophies.

   23. MBMatt Brown31:33

       Absolutely.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       Yeah.

   25. MBMatt Brown31:33

       Yeah, and- and- and-

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:34

       Now, when you say that you, you have all these books, and you say that you work on your mind, like, do you have a, a daily practice that you do? Do you meditate? Like what are you doing?

   27. MBMatt Brown31:42

       Um, I meditate. Um, you know, daily is sort of a, uh, I, I hate saying I do it daily 'cause, you know, I skip days.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:50

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MBMatt Brown31:50

       And, and I mean, I have three kids, which you know how that goes.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:53

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   I don't think he…

   1. MBMatt Brown45:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      I don't think he w-

   3. MBMatt Brown45:00

      But h- he...

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:01

      I don't think he was.

   5. MBMatt Brown45:01

      But to be honest, um, it doesn't matter-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      Right.

   7. MBMatt Brown45:04

      ... to me. I mean, you know, I've said this for a long time, I think it should be a lifetime ban, first offense.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:09

      Really?

   9. MBMatt Brown45:09

      Period. Yeah. And there's gonna be martyrs. There would be guys, like I don't think Tim Means was taking steroids. (laughs) Like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:15

       He wasn't.

   11. MBMatt Brown45:15

       ... he certainly did not look like it and-

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:16

       Well, they proved it.

   13. MBMatt Brown45:17

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:17

       They proved that he wasn't.

   15. MBMatt Brown45:18

       Oh, really?

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:19

       Yeah, they proved it.

   17. MBMatt Brown45:19

       I didn't know it went that far. Okay, so...

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:20

       They found the supplement that he was taking, that was a totally legal supplement.

   19. MBMatt Brown45:23

       Okay.

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:24

       You get a bunch of shit from these-

   21. MBMatt Brown45:25

       So if you get... but, but-

   22. JRJoe Rogan45:26

       ... small companies, or these, uh, companies rather, they get it from China, and they, they have these bins and... Like, we had a problem with that with the Alpha Brain when we first started. Not steroids, but vitamins that were in Alpha Brain that weren't supposed to be in there.

   23. MBMatt Brown45:38

       That weren't supposed to be there.

   24. JRJoe Rogan45:39

       We have all our stuff independently tested. And when we had it independently tested, it turned out that the mixers, that when they were putting all the different ingredients in, they would be putting it into these vats. And they had used these vats for other shit and hadn't completely cleaned it out.

   25. MBMatt Brown45:52

       Hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       This is a problem with companies that sell steroids and also sell things like creatine. Like, this is the, this is the big story about Jon Jones. This is the big rumor. This is what they're, they think, is that he was doing coke that had creatine in it.

   27. MBMatt Brown46:07

       Mm, yeah, I heard this. Yeah, yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       It was cut with creatine and that creatine probably had trace elements of steroids. The reason why that makes sense is because he tested negative right before that test, and then tested positive, and then tested negative again a short time after that. This is a steroid that takes several months to get outta your system. But it got outta his system very quickly, which would indicate it was a very, very small trace amount. Not an amount that you would take if you were actually using it to try to, uh, you know, to get a performance-enhancing benefit. That's what I t- I, I believe it.

   29. MBMatt Brown46:39

       Because-

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:39

       It makes sense to me.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:06:52

   Yeah. …

   1. MBMatt Brown1:00:00

      for the big fight. You get what I'm saying? So-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:02

      Yeah.

   3. MBMatt Brown1:00:02

      Something-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:02

      Yeah.

   5. MBMatt Brown1:00:03

      ... something like this, like not necessarily like a feeder, but you know, within the organization, a feeder.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:08

      Yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah. Uh, uh, yeah. I-

   7. MBMatt Brown1:00:10

      More structured.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

      I mean, I, I love the big events that they have every year like the 4th of July event, the New Year's event, the Madison Square Garden event they have every year where they just stack it and just have-

   9. MBMatt Brown1:00:20

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:21

       ... just a ton of, of big time fights. But, you know, like, I liked Eryk Anders and Lyoto Machida last week too.

   11. MBMatt Brown1:00:27

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

       You know? I mean, I like, I like that too, where it's maybe a, a fight that not a lot of people are watching. Maybe less people are watching, but it's an interesting fight still.

   13. MBMatt Brown1:00:35

       Yeah.Yeah, I didn't get to watch it. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

       I just, I, (laughs)

   15. MBMatt Brown1:00:38

       I don't have cable anymore, so-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:39

       You don't?

   17. MBMatt Brown1:00:39

       Yeah. Don't even have cable. Like, we use Netflix. My wife does.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:43

       But do you have, uh-

   19. MBMatt Brown1:00:44

       but-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:44

       ... d- do you have-

   21. MBMatt Brown1:00:45

       Honestly-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

       ... the UFC app?

   23. MBMatt Brown1:00:46

       I do have the UFC app. Is it on there?

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

       Yeah. Well-

   25. MBMatt Brown1:00:49

       Um-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:00:49

       ... that one... It wasn't, but it probably will be. How long after-

   27. MBMatt Brown1:00:51

       Yeah, it will be. That, and that's a-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:00:53

       How long do they wait before... from Fox Sports 1 till it's on the UFC app?

   29. MBMatt Brown1:00:56

       Yeah, I don't, I don't even know. I mean, that's the thing, though, is that I could s- I sit there and watch that. If I'm watching anything, it's always fights on there or YouTube.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:03

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:53:38