JRE MMA Show #146 with Francis Ngannou

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Francis Ngannou 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) What's up, champ? How are you?

Francis Ngannou 0:15 I'm good. You?

Joe Rogan 0:15 Good to see you.

Francis Ngannou 0:16 Good to see you again.

Joe Rogan 0:17 So you have, uh, been on a journey, my friend. A lot of things have happened. First of all, congratulations on securing this fight. That is a big deal. A lot of people doubted it was gonna happen. You were right.

Francis Ngannou 0:30 Uh, thank you, thank you. Yes, it was a big deal. It wasn't easy. Um, but we finally get it, you know. I get a, um, a help of a lot of people, and the Saudi were very, were very interested about this fight.

Joe Rogan 0:45 Yeah, it was one of those fights where you had to take a big gamble by relinquishing your UFC crown and leaving-

Francis Ngannou 0:52 I didn't relinquish anything.

Joe Rogan 0:53 You didn't relinquish it?

Francis Ngannou 0:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:55 What ti- well, fill me in then. Tell me what happened.

Francis Ngannou 0:58 Well, we didn't come to an agreement.

Joe Rogan 0:59 You didn't come to an agreement?

Francis Ngannou 1:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01 So you decided, "I'm not signing with the UFC." You're a free agent.

Francis Ngannou 1:05 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06 And then, did neg- negotiations then start for the Tyson Fury fight? How did it s- how did it start?

Francis Ngannou 1:12 Um, you know, it's been like four years since Tyson Fury and I were being, uh, going back and forth on social media. So, there was a little bit of a warm up somewhere there, and, uh, it- it kind of, like, take a couple months before we get to- to a conversation. You know, it wasn't just easy. Those boxing promotion, the boxing world is a little wild.

Joe Rogan 1:37 Yeah, it's a little different.

Francis Ngannou 1:38 Yeah, uh, yeah, i- it's d- completely different. It's a different animal.

Joe Rogan 1:41 In what way? Like, explain to us.

Francis Ngannou 1:44 The way that they- they do things, you know, uh, it's, uh, this guy from this promotion fighting with this guy, against this guy from this promotion, who has a better position, who has what to lose, who is getting what. And then, how them, kind of, like put things, I will not say manipulate, but little bit like that. Everybody trying to adjust thing on his own benefit.

Joe Rogan 2:08 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 2:08 Look what is good for him, which is good. But, uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12 A lot of boxing fights don't get made.

Francis Ngannou 2:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:15 They get talked about for a long time, like Tyson Fury and Usyk. For a long time, was Terence Crawford and Errol Spence. They get talked about for a long time and they almost get made, and then they don't get made, and they almost get made, and then they don't get made.

Francis Ngannou 2:29 A lot of politics behind.

Joe Rogan 2:31 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 2:31 There are a lot of promotion that, uh, will be behind the fight just to, you know, push their position.

Joe Rogan 2:38 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 2:38 Everybody's pushing his position. It's not ma- it's not mostly about the fight. It's about, like, "Okay, what we- we control the game. Do we have enough control here? Do we control everything as..."

Joe Rogan 2:53 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 2:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:53 So, was it frustrating for you? Because I imagine there was a while where you weren't sure whether or not it was going to be made.

Francis Ngannou 3:00 Uh, it wasn't frustrating. You know, um, before I made my- I- I made my decision, uh, uh, when I separated with the UFC. And I knew, I mean, long time before, like I remember even when I fought Serhian, uh, before, even before that fight, I t- I was telling myself and I was even telling this on interview, like, "Okay, if this is the end, then he has to end my way." You know? So, um, not because I was sure that is gonna happen. I knew that he could've not happened, right? But I was, I was to be in peace with my decision. So that's, uh, that's the thing about it, and I'm very, uh, happy that it happened. Makes it even better. But I knew there was a risk that he didn't happen, but I had to take a chance.

Joe Rogan 3:55 So, what was the holdup with the UFC? Like, what- what- what led you to not sign?

Francis Ngannou 4:03 There was a lot of frustration over the years. I think since my fight against, uh, Stipe, my first fight against Stipe, uh, my relation with the UFC never been the same.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Really?

Francis Ngannou 4:16 Uh, yeah, I never-

Joe Rogan 4:17 Why? In what way?

Francis Ngannou 4:18 I don't know. We try, I try everything. I wasn't, I w- I didn't, I wasn't, uh, in the r- I feel like I wasn't in the right place. And at- so after that, uh, then I get the, uh, Derrick Lewis fight, who was like the worst fight, and that didn't help me at all, you know. So, I was so- I think from that moment, I was already put in some position out there because I came back, I won, uh, I won multiple fight and they came with a new deal. This was after Junior dos Santos back in June 2017. And then, they, uh, he was, um, make phonecall for a new deal and then until my team was on the way to the negotiation, uh, who was in Anaheim when Stipe and, uh, DC was fighting the second time. And then, they're all like, "No." Then they say, "No, no new deal for Francis. He has, he ha- he still have three fight on his contract." And to be honest, I was even happy because I wanted to knock that deal out. By that time, I understood a little bit about the market. I just wanted to find out my contract and renegotiate as free, you know? But then month after, we get a call from, I think was Hunter or somebody there, here. They say, "Oh, yeah, let's negot- let's talk about a new deal for Francis." And at that time, I'm like, "There's not a new deal." Um, we are like, "We just want to fight, you know? It's already September or..."... year we, we are in September and, uh, my last fight was in June. I won a fight, you know, so the new deal stuff be holding me back. They didn't give me a fight. So-

Joe Rogan 6:21 Because they wanted you to sign a new deal.

Francis Ngannou 6:22 ... they wanted me to fight-

Joe Rogan 6:23 And you didn't want to sign a new deal.

Francis Ngannou 6:24 I don't want a new-

Joe Rogan 6:24 You wanted to fight your contract down and renegotiate.

Francis Ngannou 6:26 I wanted to fight my contract down. So-

Joe Rogan 6:28 So they were slowing things down.

Francis Ngannou 6:30 They were slowing thing down. So that, if you see like the interval between my Junior dos Santos fight and Jairzinho Rozenstruik fight was almost a year.

Joe Rogan 6:39 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 6:40 I mean, I view-

Joe Rogan 6:41 It's also COVID, right?

Francis Ngannou 6:42 Yeah. It, there wa- there was the COVID in between. But without COVID, it would still be like 10 months. Right? And then from Junior, from Rozenstruik to Stipe, same thing. Then Stipe to Ciryl Gane, almost the same thing. It was mostly about the contract.

Joe Rogan 6:59 So then finally you fight out the contract, and then what happens?

Francis Ngannou 7:05 We didn't come to a agreement at all because during this time there was still a negotiation pushing and stuff, and I wanted to fight out that contract.

Joe Rogan 7:15 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 7:16 Proposal of money, obviously they know my p- position because I was pressure financially. You know when you have a fight you expect to fight at least s- at that level, at that moment I was expecting to fight at least two or three time a year. Right? Then I get to the point that I have a wi- I have one fight. I have nothing. So I was, uh, limited of income, stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 7:41 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 7:41 Then I started borrow money. Even before the Stipe fight, when they announced that fight, I need to call to ask for a advance of my purse to finance my training camp. I have no money.

Joe Rogan 7:54 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 7:55 But I was, I was there training and getting ready for almost a year, uh, so I took some advance. So-

Joe Rogan 8:03 That's gotta be very stressful.

Francis Ngannou 8:06 Yeah. But one thing, and that's like one thing that I'm always grateful about my life, I used to this situation and I tell myself like, "These people, they don't know me." I can live out of nothing. You know I live in the str-

Joe Rogan 8:21 Well, what, what you did-

Francis Ngannou 8:21 ... I live in the street, bro. Like-

Joe Rogan 8:23 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 8:23 And then I'm here in Las Vegas. You think like, "Okay, I don't fight." I just have to change everything. I'm able to live out of the best, bare minimum. And I don't care if I walk around you guys say, "Oh, oh, champ. Oh, that's a UFC contender," whatever it is. Man, I just live base of what is in my, uh, base of my asset. I don't live beyond that. That's why like I don't really trust those credit card system or those loan and stuff. That's America shit, bro.

Joe Rogan 8:56 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 8:57 I don't, I don't trust that. Because when it let you down, it let you down.

Joe Rogan 9:01 Yeah, for sure.

Francis Ngannou 9:02 I check my, I check my, uh, wallet. Whatever is in my, uh, wallet, I live based on that.

Joe Rogan 9:08 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 9:08 I don't go loan and stuff unless like I'm forced at some point or I'm, it's an investment like having taken in money, borrowing money for your training camp, you know?

Joe Rogan 9:20 Right.

Francis Ngannou 9:20 That's a different, different thing.

Joe Rogan 9:23 So you win the Ciryl Gane fight, then what happens?

Francis Ngannou 9:28 Well, then, um, first dinner didn't come to the ring, to the octagon for the belt.

Joe Rogan 9:36 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 9:36 Yeah. And then after that they get this, this dinner, uh, invite us to this dinner trying to smooth things out. Again, the condition at that time, I think at that time for me it was more than a contract. It was like a lot of frustration from the past almost three years. You know, um, like, okay, I have no guarantee that signing this contract I will not get into what, uh, I was, I have been through in the past three years. So however we change something that will make me feel secure.

Joe Rogan 10:14 And what did you want changed?

Francis Ngannou 10:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:19 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 10:19 A lot of things. I want in my contra- first of all, I want a contract without extension because I have seen how they can abuse of those extension.

Joe Rogan 10:30 Can you explain to me how the extension works?

Francis Ngannou 10:31 Oh, well, I mean, there's not a r- a way that it works. The extension is that, um, because they say if the, if you re- deny a fight they can extend you for six month or something if you are hurt and can't fight, they can extend you for six months or something. But the problem, the UFC is the judge and the party. They decide if they will extend you. You have no say. So when they say, "Oh, you fight tomorrow," you say, "Uh, uh, n- no, I w-" Now I'm like, "Okay, no problem. We were just checking." And then maybe a week after you will receive a letter of extension, like your contract has been extended for six months.

Joe Rogan 11:20 Oh.

Francis Ngannou 11:20 And that's what happened with me, uh, when I-

Joe Rogan 11:22 Even if you're injured? Like say if they propose a fight for you, like here we are in September.

Francis Ngannou 11:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:27 If they propose a fight for you in Madison Square Garden in November and you say, "I can't 'cause I'm injured."

Francis Ngannou 11:32 Oh, no, that extension for sure.

Joe Rogan 11:34 Then they put up a six-month extension on your contract.

Francis Ngannou 11:36 Oh, yeah. That's extension. That's-

Joe Rogan 11:37 Anytime you refuse a fight, is that what it is?

Francis Ngannou 11:40 Ye- yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:40 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 11:42 And refuse is subjective.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Right.

Francis Ngannou 11:45 Depend of the term of suggestion.

Joe Rogan 11:47 It could mean you can't fight because you're injured like when you tore your knee ligaments.

Francis Ngannou 11:51 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 11:52 Like-

Francis Ngannou 11:52 That is a extension.

Joe Rogan 11:53 Extension?

Francis Ngannou 11:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:54 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 11:55 That's clearly a extension. For examp- uh, my extension for example, the first one, when I get, when I fought Stipe, right? And I have been fighting almost once a year in the past three years.

Joe Rogan 12:07 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 12:08 I fought Stipe on March 27.... and then April 2nd, Mick is calling my team kind- and I tell them like, "Oh, I- I wanna fight, stay active, I wanna fight twice this year again." Summer, which is July or August, and December. And then April 2nd, they are calling to ask me to fight and I was getting ready. It was a big moment in my life. I'm like, "I'm bringing this trophy home. This trophy home."

Joe Rogan 12:39 Right.

Francis Ngannou 12:39 Right?

Joe Rogan 12:39 You're the champ now.

Francis Ngannou 12:40 Right. And they s- called to ask me if I can fight in June 12th. Uh, it was June 12th, yeah? June 6th or something like that, where I'm like, "Bro, give me a time." I mean, I s- they, they say, "No, we were just offering in case, because Francis said he wanna fight twice this year." I'm like, "Yes, I do." And I said, "July the earliest and O- O- August, and December." And, uh, I know that I can take one, two weeks, uh, two, three weeks out, maybe go home, do stuff and come back.

Joe Rogan 13:17 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 13:18 And they are like, "No, no, no. Uh, totally understable- understandable." Uh, he was just to check, uh, in case this work for you.

Joe Rogan 13:28 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 13:28 He was- he wasn't really... (laughs) Couple months after, I receive a extension about that. But you know why? Because my contract originally supposed to end in, um, May, May 20th of that year.

Joe Rogan 13:44 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 13:45 So if my contract end in, on May 20th at that year, that mean the, uh, championship clause kicks in, which is one year. Um, but if they extend me, I have to go all the way to the extension before the championship clause kicks in. So, it was more time.

Joe Rogan 14:06 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 14:07 Yeah. So, and w- when they say, "No, it's okay. No problem. We were just checking." And, uh, I was in Cameroon in, uh, on May 19th. So one day before my original contract, which was 14 months, expire, and then the championship kick in, I receive a extension letter. I was in Cameroon suffering of COVID at that time. So, I receive a extension letter. So, now I'm extended until November 20th.

Joe Rogan 14:42 Even though you told them you wanted to fight in July?

Francis Ngannou 14:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:47 So they just tack on some s-

Francis Ngannou 14:48 Oh, no, they just tacked on, and you have nothing to say.

Joe Rogan 14:51 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 14:51 It's effective from the moment that they send that letter out.

Joe Rogan 14:54 Okay. So your new contract, you wanted no extensions? That's one thing.

Francis Ngannou 14:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Makes sense.

Francis Ngannou 14:59 That's one thing.

Joe Rogan 14:59 Okay. What was the- was one of them the ability to box?

Francis Ngannou 15:03 One of them was the ability to box. They say that wasn't an option. Boxing is dead, it's not possible, this and that. (slaps leg)

Joe Rogan 15:13 Now what does that feel like to you knowing that Conor McGregor did it and fought Floyd Mayweather and made $100 million? What is that like for you to be sitting there being told that you can't box?

Francis Ngannou 15:25 Well, uh, I don't used to ... I don't used to take what people tell me for an answer.

Joe Rogan 15:34 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 15:35 Right?

Joe Rogan 15:36 Right.

Francis Ngannou 15:36 I used to do my own thing-

Joe Rogan 15:38 Right.

Francis Ngannou 15:39 ... on my, in my, on my own way.

Joe Rogan 15:41 Right.

Francis Ngannou 15:41 And it seems to work pretty good, so. But I wasn't going to force to change everything. I wasn't expecting to go there and demand this, demand that-

Joe Rogan 15:51 Right.

Francis Ngannou 15:51 ... and just have everything. You know? It's like, it's a big company, it's like an institution.

Joe Rogan 15:57 Right.

Francis Ngannou 15:57 You know? So, there is a way that they do thing-

Joe Rogan 16:00 Right.

Francis Ngannou 16:00 ... and that can change. So I'm like, "Okay, if that's, if so, let's take boxing out." Why? Because give me three fight, contract of three fight. I was- I knew that I can knock a three fight contract in a year. Then from that moment, I was free, because I want, I want a middle ground, like a alternative, a way to get out by giving something out.

Joe Rogan 16:26 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 16:26 You know?

Joe Rogan 16:27 Right.

Francis Ngannou 16:27 Just to get something at the end.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Got it.

Francis Ngannou 16:29 You know? Because it's really hard to get in the negotiation and just like, "Oh, I want this, I want that, I want that."

Joe Rogan 16:36 Right.

Francis Ngannou 16:36 And stop there. At some point, you have to compromise to push back, give something in order to get something.

Joe Rogan 16:43 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 16:44 So, stuff like that, um, was the thing that I was about it. And, um, that seems to be attractive to them. So one, uh, three fight deal, no extension, that seems to be attractive. Two fight was supposed to be potentially Jon Jones fight and rematch, and one fight is the trilogy with Stipe.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 17:10 That was their request, and work for both party. Then, um, we get to, (laughs) we get to another point, sponsorship deal. Why a sponsorship deal? Because, um, before that, I had a deal. After the Stipe fight, I have- I had a, a deal on the table for over $1 million for a cryptocurrency wallet. So, I was going to have, like, I think 1.2 million, which is the money that I didn't, I never had in, in the fight. I was going to have that in a sponsorship, and the deal was this close to sign. And then they announced the Crypto.com deal.

Joe Rogan 17:57 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 17:57 And then the party poor off. I'm like, "Bro, we can't do. You, you understand our position. You can be carry this in the, um, octagon, while behind we are trying to push."

Joe Rogan 18:08 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 18:09 You know? (sighs)

Joe Rogan 18:10 Did you try to make a deal with Crypto.com?

Francis Ngannou 18:14 No.

Joe Rogan 18:14 No?

Francis Ngannou 18:15 Crypt- at that moment, Crypto.com, they don't care-

Joe Rogan 18:17 Right.

Francis Ngannou 18:18 ... because-

Joe Rogan 18:18 They have a deal with UFC.

Francis Ngannou 18:19 ... they have the deal with the UFC. And you're gonna wear it whether you like it or not.

Joe Rogan 18:22 Right.

Francis Ngannou 18:23 You don't have a, a say.

Joe Rogan 18:25 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 18:25 And now, I'm like, "I think this is mess up."

Joe Rogan 18:28 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 18:28 "I need- we need to solve this out. I need a sponsorship, I need a right to have my own sponsor, uh, which fighters should be able to have two, three sponsorship on their, on their gears. I mean, I understand that we wanna make the sport grow, make it nice, but we can, we can also... Meanwhile, you can have a department who check all the sponsor like, "Oh, no, this is not good because of this reason."

Joe Rogan 18:59 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 18:59 "It doesn't represent the sport well." Right?

Joe Rogan 19:01 Right.

Francis Ngannou 19:02 But there are a lot of good stuff out there that will also help fighter to, you know, to provide, to get little more money. And, um, that was another discussion. I'm like, "Ugh, you can't do that."

Joe Rogan 19:18 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 19:19 That's not how... I'm like, "Okay, so what is working exactly?" They make me some kind of, like, a proposal which (sighs) I don't know, it doesn't even make sense. But... And the other one was like, um... (sighs) Because of the fact that I was in this position for so long and I was just so powerless, the reason why I stay in this position, why I keep holding my ground was bec- only because in the contract, there is what they call the sunset clause. So, meaning, like after five years from the beginning, from the day you sign the contract, uh, it doesn't matter what is in the contract, the contract expire. The extension- they can't extend you past that date. So my end goal from the begin- from the moment that I know that, okay, I gonna hold this ground, I knew that I have to face some obstacle. So my end goal was the five years, the sunset.

Joe Rogan 20:25 Okay.

Francis Ngannou 20:25 I had the sunset day, date in my mind, December 9th, uh, 2022. I had that day in my mind for, like, almost three years. So when I was receiving all this extension letter, I mean, I couldn't fight it either way, but in my mind, I was just like, "It's okay. One thing that I know, uh, just, just focus on December 9th, 2022, and then you will be fine." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:52 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 20:53 So after that, then I'm like, "Okay, if I sign a new deal, I don't know, even if there's not extension, there have been a proof of, like..." How could I say in a nice way? Abuse of power? Right? "But why are we in this position?" This is the position that every fighter get into, right? I mean, be feeling powerless. We might be many hundreds of us, but it's every individual at time. We are very separated.

Joe Rogan 21:33 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 21:33 Every cases is se- separated. So, which mean you're just w- weak. It's just you against big monster, which is the company, the institution, so you can't fight. How can we make it make sense? I mean, we are not going for union, but at least you guys, sometime, before make some decision, how about you have somebody in the room who can understand things from our perspective? Because I do believe that all the posi- decision that you might make will hurt us is not mean to hurt, but maybe just because you don't understand our position.

Joe Rogan 22:14 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 22:15 Maybe if somebody there is speaking for us, which, again, I don't know who it could be, but just be mindful that, "Okay, this is fighter position."

Joe Rogan 22:26 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 22:27 Maybe that will help.

Joe Rogan 22:30 So-

Francis Ngannou 22:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:30 ... you get through all this, and then where did it break down to the point where you had to walk away?

Francis Ngannou 22:36 It break down, um... December 6th, I think it was December... no, December 20... (sighs) Uh, I don't remember. It's 20... 19 or 22nd, something like that. I had a dinner with Hunter. After we been going through stuff, he said no to this, no to that, you know. But I have a focus, I know that, "Okay, if I give three fight here, since they are willing to take the three fight, it's gonna make..." You know, I don't wanna break this relationship like this. I don't want it to be a war.

Joe Rogan 23:17 Right.

Francis Ngannou 23:17 I can't stand- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:19 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 23:21 I can't stand in this. But (smacks lips) so we can get trying to fix things up, but when we met again, uh, that day was the first time over all this time that we have to talk about the financial aspect. I mean, he has to propose a financial aspect.

Joe Rogan 23:42 Right, so he proposed it at dinner?

Francis Ngannou 23:44 Yeah, he proposed at dinner. And then I just like, "This guy is making fun of me."

Joe Rogan 23:51 Making fun of you?

Francis Ngannou 23:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:53 So it was disrespectful? It was, like, not valuable enough for you?

Francis Ngannou 23:58 N- not at all.

Joe Rogan 23:59 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 24:00 I mean-

Joe Rogan 24:00 And you're the champ at the time?

Francis Ngannou 24:01 Yeah, I mean, not at all. Like, when you're talking about pay-per-view, then you're negotiating pay-per-view, and then you see number like 1.25 pay-bys and stuff like that, and the pay-per-view is going-... from six, from $60 to $80 in the past five years, and you realize that the two p- one, the two, there is 0.25 that is on top of it, is just out of the $20 that been added on, I'm like, "Come on, man." It's not my first pay-per-view contract and...

Joe Rogan 24:46 Just wasn't enough money.

Francis Ngannou 24:48 Wa- it wasn't even about the, the money. Even how it was structured, even how it was, I'm like, "This doesn't make sense." You know? I, I went home, and I was so, I don't know, frustrated or disappointed. I don't know how I can describe, but one thing I know, I went online, I'm like, "I'm missing Christmas with my family. I'm here training for a potential tr- Jon Jones fight, which might not happen. What for? Seems like we're not getting anywhere close." I book a flight that night-

Joe Rogan 25:26 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 25:26 ... to go to Cameroon. And I was in Cameroon in the Christmas, and then couple days after, I receive a text from Mick, Mick Manor, who was, you know ... Mick usually sometime just send me a friendly text to check on me. And then we talk a little bit, and then he talk about the, the contract, like he, he heard that we didn't come to a term. I say, "Yes." He say like, "Is it anything that I can do?" I'm like, "I don't think so. We didn't just have a, an agreement." And, um, he said, "How about I make it, we, we talk again. Let's get in a meeting with Hunter again and talk." And, uh, as I said, Mick always been nice, and I couldn't say no. I'm like, "Yes. Let's try." In fact, I wish it could've worked, you know. Because, to be honest, I never like really, before all this, I never imagined a life out of the UFC. I thought it would be like my fighting platform until my retirement or something-

Joe Rogan 26:44 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 26:44 ... but, uh, clearly things have changed along the way.

Joe Rogan 26:48 So, even when they came back a second time, it still was not enough.

Francis Ngannou 26:55 Yeah. Because when they came back, and, um, all this time that, that we've been talking, they've been talking about the, um, uh, how th- what is the term? Back pay. "Yeah, we're gonna back pay you from..." Because e- from all the fight that I've been refu- uh, refusing to renegotiate-

Joe Rogan 27:19 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 27:19 ... uh, the pay that they were proposing, they say they're gonna back pay me that. When they come out now, and then make pay better, and now I'm like, "Okay, the back pay and this and that." And I'm like, "No, no, everything is in this contract. This is it. This is it." And now I'm like, "Okay." Well, then I don't know what to say if you say, "This is it," because you're, it's against your word. You say something, and now you say, "This is it." I still don't have the back pay, bro.

Joe Rogan 27:52 So they proposed the back pay, and then they took it away?

Francis Ngannou 27:55 No, yeah, they'd been proposing the back pay before.

Joe Rogan 27:58 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 27:59 E- after the, um, Syrie fight, they get, they, uh, invite us to a dinner, and then keep remind me how they gonna back pay me-

Joe Rogan 28:09 Right.

Francis Ngannou 28:10 ... everything. Because I have a, a good p- a proposal at the time, but I know that proposal, and it was a good money, but I know it was just a bait to sign a contract.

Joe Rogan 28:22 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 28:22 It was just to put the pen on the paper. It wasn't really like a good faith, like what, how they wanna make, give me a good contract. And they get to the point that they were like, "No, everything is in this." I'm like, "Okay, I don't see it." And, uh, I was, we were kind of like silenced for a couple second, like, "What's that mean?" I'm like, "I don't know." Then we hang up. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:53 Ugh. Okay. So, at that point do you start to talk to people like the PFL and-

Francis Ngannou 28:59 No.

Joe Rogan 28:59 ... the NFC and ... No?

Francis Ngannou 29:01 No. At that point, I stopped. Uh, I didn't do anything. When we stopped at convention, I didn't do anything until like, um, I started to see all these things on social media, and then I saw they did- uh, they did a press c- uh, press conference, and like, "Oh, we get rid of Francis. Uh, yes, he's not getting any younger. He's injured." I'm like, "Yes, he's not getting any younger, but you were trying to have him. He's injured, but you were trying to have him. Now you didn't come to an agreement, you're batching him." That's when I started to respond, because I never really like want this like to be something on me. And I was expecting like maybe they go out there and just say, "Oh, unfortunately, we didn't come to agreement," and this and that, and, "Thank you. Good luck." Right?

Joe Rogan 29:55 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 29:56 And then we, we move away. But that's not how they do thing over there.

Joe Rogan 30:03 So, you decide to start talking to other people then?

Francis Ngannou 30:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:08 And who do you talk to first?

Francis Ngannou 30:11 Um, people started to reach out. I wasn't even the one, uh, talking to people. And, you know, at that time, I just wanna let this weight drop out of my shoulder. For some reason, I feel relieved.... I feel relieved. There was so much pressure into that process, you know. And I was in Cameroon. I'm like, "Man, just live your life," you know?

Joe Rogan 30:36 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 30:37 Whatever is yours out there will come to you. Like, but I get, um, uh, the first person that reached out was Pete Murray from PFL. And then, I was just like, "Yes, let's hear him out." And he came out, we speak, he asked like what I'm looking for and stuff. We speak, I'm like, "Ah, looks good." A couple of days after, he made a proposal. I look... I mean, I didn't even ask for not anything, but when he make a proposal, I look at the structure of that proposal. I'm like, "This is good." You know, everything was ta- being taken consideration, you know. Obviously, there's always, there's always gonna be a way of, to negotiate in the contract, but the way that they structured it, I was already happy. I'm like, "I think this guy is trying to make me happy."

Joe Rogan 31:43 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 31:43 Right?

Joe Rogan 31:43 Well, they need someone like you.

Francis Ngannou 31:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:45 PFL doesn't really have the big stars.

Francis Ngannou 31:48 Yeah. So, but we keep that contra- and at that time, I'm like, "Let's wait. I'm not rushing to anything. Take some times and everything." And then, we-

Joe Rogan 31:59 So, you didn't sign that yet?

Francis Ngannou 32:00 No, I didn't sign.

Joe Rogan 32:02 No.

Francis Ngannou 32:02 We also get to a Chatri. Even Chatri reach out. We talk, same thing, and then couple of days, (laughs) they send their own contract. But when I was put in that contract next to the PFL one, it was day and night.

Joe Rogan 32:22 The PFL was much better?

Francis Ngannou 32:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:24 Okay.

Francis Ngannou 32:25 In the-

Joe Rogan 32:26 And did PFL, uh, put a clause in to allow you to box?

Francis Ngannou 32:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:30 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 32:30 N- no. Boxing was, was first for me. Right?

Joe Rogan 32:33 And would the PFL be involved in the boxing promotion?

Francis Ngannou 32:36 That was up to me.

Joe Rogan 32:37 Okay.

Francis Ngannou 32:37 That was up to me, but they didn't really like want to. It's not their expertise, but if they can help in some way or be involved in some way, again, it's up to me, right?

Joe Rogan 32:50 Okay.

Francis Ngannou 32:50 So, very independent contract. So, but I was more looking about, like, boxing. That's the first time that I have to, I started to have dialogue about boxing and stuff, you know, try to explore-

Joe Rogan 33:08 And I know there were some conversations with you fighting, there was Deontay Wilder they talked about. I think they talked about Dillian Whyte. Who, who was-

Francis Ngannou 33:17 No. He, he was, he was... Deontay Wilder. We definitely... We had a d- a conversation with Deontay Wilder, uh, team, even with him, uh, I personally like was on the of, of, uh, meeting with him, conference with him, that we were talking about a potential to fight there.

Joe Rogan 33:36 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 33:37 So, and that was, that was going well. And I think even to this day, we, we are kind of like open about it. It's just, uh, along the way, he has the, he has the potential opportunity right away that they say, "Okay, we would have liked to push you," the conversation about, uh, what we have here. And he was... For us, he was understandable. I'm like, "Okay, then let's explore maybe after." And then right after that, I have my own w- I started a conversation with, um, with, um, for the Fury fight. Yeah. Because I get a call, I was dri- I was driving to... Yeah, I was driving to the airport, and then I get a call to meet in New York for, for some conversation about the Fury fight. And then when I get in New York, um, next week, we scheduled that on next week, I get in New York. We get to the room and meet the people. It was the right people. We spoke. I, I heard them, I hear them out, and I'm like... I, I knew them, right? And I'm like, "Okay, this is legit." I think with these people behind, this fight is going to happen. That's where I now put them in contact with my team to negotiate, because they wanted me do everything. "Let's negotiate, let's..." I'm like, "Uh, I don't do negotiation." I, I listen, I talk about, like, how I would like things to go, but I don't like to negotiate personally.

Joe Rogan 35:27 Right. Of course.

Francis Ngannou 35:27 Like, "Oh, I want this, I deserve this, I'm that." You know? I rather have somebody do that on my behalf.

Joe Rogan 35:34 Right. Somebody do that on your behalf and you want to respond to a good deal.

Francis Ngannou 35:38 To a good deal.

Joe Rogan 35:38 You want a good deal brought to you.

Francis Ngannou 35:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:39 Okay.

Francis Ngannou 35:40 I want somebody... It's always good to have somebody in the mirror that would take the temper of both party.

Joe Rogan 35:46 Right.

Francis Ngannou 35:46 Because a deal can fall off just of because, uh, somebody's mad at this, and then, like, his ego take over, and the deal is off, right?

Joe Rogan 35:56 Right.

Francis Ngannou 35:57 But when there's somebody in, in between, and he always come to like, okay, it's, it's not him.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Right.

Francis Ngannou 36:05 And he has to think about it. And that's what's happened. Because sometime, with my team, there was, there, they was frustrated, and I'm like, "Oh, no, this is not working." And then they will come to you and then you will talk nice. You know, "Be a nice cop, have no problem." I'm like, "No, but my team is saying this because of-"

Joe Rogan 36:25 Okay.

Francis Ngannou 36:25 "... They didn't mean to offend you, you know?"

Joe Rogan 36:27 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 36:28 "But I think, you know... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:30 Got it. Frustrating, right?

Francis Ngannou 36:31 Yeah. I mean, no, not frustrating. I mean-

Joe Rogan 36:34 Complicated.

Francis Ngannou 36:35 Yeah. Oh, but over the time, you learn, you understand how it works and it's pretty easy.

Joe Rogan 36:40 Okay.

Francis Ngannou 36:40 It's pretty easy.

Joe Rogan 36:42 So, you're in the driver's seat now because you left the UFC. You have, uh, all these opportunities on the table, possibly Deontay Wilder, then it becomes Tyson Fury. So when do you know that that fight is actually going to take place? Because I know there was a-

Francis Ngannou 36:58 June.

Joe Rogan 36:59 ... lo- June.

Francis Ngannou 36:59 June. That was in June. That was in June. We locked that fight, it was concluded. Everything was set.

Joe Rogan 37:05 So for all those months from December to June, you're essentially just trying to find where you're gonna land.

Francis Ngannou 37:11 Yeah. But before that, uh, I have, um... I agree the deal with the PFL, I think it was in, uh, in March. But, uh, I made the request, I say, "Let's just figure out what will be next, my next, uh, boxing fight before we sign the deal."

Joe Rogan 37:31 So you haven't signed the deal with the PFL?

Francis Ngannou 37:32 I haven't signed the deal.

Joe Rogan 37:33 Is it possible... Let me ask you this.

Francis Ngannou 37:35 Okay.

Joe Rogan 37:35 Is it possible that you go and fight Tyson Fury and then the UFC comes back to you and says, "Listen, let's make this right and let's fight Jon Jones"? Is that possible?

Francis Ngannou 37:47 It's possible, but-

Joe Rogan 37:48 That's what I want. (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 37:48 No, it's possible if-

Joe Rogan 37:49 That's what I want.

Francis Ngannou 37:50 It's, it's possible but they have to go through the PFL now.

Joe Rogan 37:55 Oh. Because does the PFL have a contract signed?

Francis Ngannou 37:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:58 The... You did sign a contract?

Francis Ngannou 37:59 Yeah, I did sign.

Joe Rogan 38:00 Okay.

Francis Ngannou 38:00 I say in March, I was... it wasn't signed.

Joe Rogan 38:02 Right.

Francis Ngannou 38:03 I signed in May.

Joe Rogan 38:05 Do you think the PFL would allow that?

Francis Ngannou 38:07 Oh, the PFL is down for that.

Joe Rogan 38:09 Really?

Francis Ngannou 38:10 Yeah, it's down for that.

Joe Rogan 38:11 Wow!

Francis Ngannou 38:13 The PFL is down for that.

Joe Rogan 38:15 So the PFL would let you fight in the UFC, but what happens if you beat Jon Jones? You'll become the UFC heavyweight champion again.

Francis Ngannou 38:22 Uh...

Joe Rogan 38:25 That's a problem.

Francis Ngannou 38:27 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 38:28 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 38:28 (laughs) Maybe he will be a special fighter, special belt or something.

Joe Rogan 38:33 Yeah. Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 38:34 Maybe not like a UFC belt. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 38:36 Yeah, the UFC probably would not be down for that.

Francis Ngannou 38:39 But I... Yeah. They-

Joe Rogan 38:39 Like, you win the title and then go fight in the PFL.

Francis Ngannou 38:41 No.

Joe Rogan 38:41 That would be a problem.

Francis Ngannou 38:41 No. No, the title.

Joe Rogan 38:44 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 38:44 But, you know, to be honest, I don't worry about the title. The title is not what I worry about. I worry about that fight, that challenge.

Joe Rogan 38:51 Yes.

Francis Ngannou 38:52 Uh, and, uh, I wouldn't care if it was a fight without a title, you know, so...

Joe Rogan 38:58 Right.

Francis Ngannou 38:59 It might... I don't need a, a UFC title.

Joe Rogan 39:03 Especially with that fight.

Francis Ngannou 39:04 Right?

Joe Rogan 39:04 Like, what difference does it make? It's Jon Jones and you. Everybody knows.

Francis Ngannou 39:07 No, that fight is bigger than a title.

Joe Rogan 39:09 Yes, bigger than a title. Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 39:09 The fight is bigger than a title.

Joe Rogan 39:11 No doubt.

Francis Ngannou 39:12 So deep inside me, I still have a little bit of hope even no- though I know (inhales deeply) it's gonna be hard, but-

Joe Rogan 39:20 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 39:21 ... you never know.

Joe Rogan 39:22 Boy, that would be a big gamble for them 'cause if you win, then you're the champ, but you're signed with the PFL.

Francis Ngannou 39:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:29 Ooh.

Francis Ngannou 39:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:30 Ooh. Okay. So, so June, you get the Tyson Fury bout negotiated. Did you get everything you want? Was it easy?

Francis Ngannou 39:38 Um, again, you don't work in a room for a contract to get everything that you want.

Joe Rogan 39:43 Right.

Francis Ngannou 39:44 And at that moment, I was just so happy, happy to get that fight happen because-

Joe Rogan 39:49 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 39:49 ... from that fight, a lot of thing w- will be open. That fight will open a lot of door. You know, sometime, uh, even in the negotiation, sometime you have to see long-term, like what it comes with.

Joe Rogan 40:05 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 40:07 Now, I get this fight. I think it's... It should have be the, it should have be the focus, right?

Joe Rogan 40:14 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 40:15 After this fight, imagine, hypothetically, I go out there and knock Tyson Fury out. What do you think will happen for me now? Where does that leave me?

Joe Rogan 40:24 If you knock Tyson Fury out, you're the biggest combat sports star in the world.

Francis Ngannou 40:29 Okay.

Joe Rogan 40:30 That's what I think.

Francis Ngannou 40:31 So is that everything that you would want?

Joe Rogan 40:33 You want the cash.

Francis Ngannou 40:34 (laughs) Of course.

Joe Rogan 40:36 You gotta get the cash.

Francis Ngannou 40:37 Then you will get everything. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:39 Yeah. You gotta get the cash. Well, if you knock Tyson Fury out, the real money is in a rematch.

Francis Ngannou 40:42 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 40:43 That's the real money. That's crazy money.

Francis Ngannou 40:47 That's what, uh-

Joe Rogan 40:47 Are they giving you crazy money for the Tyson Fury fight?

Francis Ngannou 40:49 That's what, that's what... Huh?

Joe Rogan 40:50 Are they giving you crazy money for the Tyson Fury fight?

Francis Ngannou 40:53 Yeah. They're giving me a good money. Uh-

Joe Rogan 40:56 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 40:56 ... and very great condition. I, I like, I like a lot of component. And again, a lot, like a lot of component of this contract was, like, uh, the, the thing, the treatment that they were giving me, the access, how easy they make stuff for me, you know. Like, it's gonna be the first time that my family gonna attend to my fight, and I don't even have to think about it.

Joe Rogan 41:22 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 41:22 They're gonna work on it. They're gonna figure out how to bring my mom, my sister, my brother out to Saudi to watch that fight.

Joe Rogan 41:29 Oh, okay. So they're gonna-

Francis Ngannou 41:30 T- they're gonna take care of everything.

Joe Rogan 41:31 ... take care of everything.

Francis Ngannou 41:31 They're gonna take care. And I think that-

Joe Rogan 41:32 The Saudis know how to throw that money around, boy. (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 41:34 And I think that's, that's, that's some- that's something that for me was very, very important.

Joe Rogan 41:40 Mm-hmm. I see.

Francis Ngannou 41:40 I think, you know, I could have half more money, but it wouldn't make me more happier, uh, than stuff like that. And, you know, you kind of, like, work with people that you feel like, okay, they are trying their best, their very best to make you feel comfortable, feel happy.

Joe Rogan 42:00 Right.

Francis Ngannou 42:00 I think that's... It's also, it's also a partnership, you know. It's not like one shot, okay, take everything that I can take and go. How can we build something? Like, is it like somebody that I can trust? Can we build something for the future? And then when you feel like, yes, you invest into that relationship.

Joe Rogan 42:20 Mm-hmm. Okay. So June, they negotiate the fight. Uh, is it 12 rounds?

Francis Ngannou 42:26 10 Rounds.

Joe Rogan 42:27 10 Rounds.

Francis Ngannou 42:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:28 10 Rounds and, uh, they've created a new belt.

Francis Ngannou 42:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:32 Right? And, um, you're happy with the money, you're happy with the conditions, you're happy with everything.So-

Francis Ngannou 42:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:38 ... then, in June is when you go hardcore boxing training? Like, when did you start, like, hardcore boxing training?

Francis Ngannou 42:44 I was training, uh, boxing already. Um, no, no like I was in a camp, but-

Joe Rogan 42:50 But you're recovering from your knee surgery, first of all, right?

Francis Ngannou 42:53 Yes.

Joe Rogan 42:53 So-

Francis Ngannou 42:54 Yes.

Joe Rogan 42:54 ... you can't kick and you can't wrestle?

Francis Ngannou 42:56 I can kick, I can wrestle. I mean, obviously-

Joe Rogan 42:59 But you have to be careful.

Francis Ngannou 43:01 ... I have to be careful. But-

Joe Rogan 43:02 How is the knee now? 100%?

Francis Ngannou 43:03 I have... I don't have to worry about, like, kick, wrestling.

Joe Rogan 43:07 Right.

Francis Ngannou 43:08 Just knee. Uh, my knee's probably 90%. I mean, when you get a knee surgery.

Joe Rogan 43:15 Did you get any stem cells or anything?

Francis Ngannou 43:18 Not yet. I-

Joe Rogan 43:19 How long are you in town for?

Francis Ngannou 43:20 I had a, um, a PRP.

Joe Rogan 43:23 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 43:24 I'm leaving tonight.

Joe Rogan 43:25 You're leaving tonight?

Francis Ngannou 43:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:26 There's a company in Austin, Ways2Well, (clears throat) that I wanted to hook you up with-

Francis Ngannou 43:30 Ways2Well.

Joe Rogan 43:30 ... that does stem cells.

Francis Ngannou 43:31 Yes. I get, I get in contact with them.

Joe Rogan 43:33 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 43:33 I even do, uh, get them do my exam. And I think, uh, Eric, uh, Nicksick put me in contact with, um-

Joe Rogan 43:41 With Brigham?

Francis Ngannou 43:41 He send me a contact. Huh?

Joe Rogan 43:43 I can take care of that too.

Francis Ngannou 43:44 Yeah, w- with Brigham?

Joe Rogan 43:45 Yeah, I can take care of that too.

Francis Ngannou 43:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:46 I can help you out.

Francis Ngannou 43:46 About the stem cell-

Joe Rogan 43:47 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 43:47 ... if we have the time. And I think I'm gonna-

Joe Rogan 43:49 You should do that.

Francis Ngannou 43:50 Yeah, I think I'm gonna-

Joe Rogan 43:51 It'll help you.

Francis Ngannou 43:51 ... give it a shot. Uh-

Joe Rogan 43:52 Yeah. For sure.

Francis Ngannou 43:53 You know?

Joe Rogan 43:54 It'll help you. It definitely will.

Francis Ngannou 43:56 It's very important to take care of, to main- to maintain the vehicle. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:02 Yes, obviously. Yeah. Yeah, and what a vehicle it is.

Francis Ngannou 44:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:06 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 44:07 Basically, when you gonna put it in a big tr- a crash like this.

Joe Rogan 44:10 So, yeah, right?

Francis Ngannou 44:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:13 (laughs) That's a good way to put it.

Francis Ngannou 44:14 Be- yeah, because Tyson Fury is a big... is a monster.

Joe Rogan 44:17 He's a monster.

Francis Ngannou 44:17 I sta- I stand next to him, I'm like, "Damn, this guy is big."

Joe Rogan 44:21 He's big. (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 44:21 Right? I'm like, "You really need to go full force." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:25 Yeah, he's a big fella. And he's very good, very skillful.

Francis Ngannou 44:28 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 44:29 I mean, you're, you're jumping to the top of the heap maybe ever.

Francis Ngannou 44:31 And then, and then I was there at the press conference next to him, and I'm like, "Yes, look my fat belly. I'm, um, I'm a fat pig, I'm this." I'm like, "Don't you fool me."

Joe Rogan 44:41 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 44:41 "I've seen you."

Joe Rogan 44:41 Look at... (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 44:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:43 How he tricks people with that belly.

Francis Ngannou 44:44 Yeah. I'm like, "Don't you fool me. Don't you trick me, Tyson."

Joe Rogan 44:47 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 44:47 "I've seen you box, and you doesn't box as a fat anything at all."

Joe Rogan 44:54 (laughs) No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't.

Francis Ngannou 44:55 Because-

Joe Rogan 44:56 He's an animal.

Francis Ngannou 44:56 ... i- i- if you just focus i- on his body, then you'll be like, "Oh, I think e- easy job."

Joe Rogan 45:01 Right.

Francis Ngannou 45:01 No, man.

Joe Rogan 45:02 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 45:02 When the guy's in the ring moving, you're like, "Okay, is it, like, something that they are remoting or something?" I'm like, "No, don't you fool me. I have seen you."

Joe Rogan 45:10 No, he's very, very skillful.

Francis Ngannou 45:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:12 Very skillful.

Francis Ngannou 45:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:14 But, you know, you have probably the most sensational punching power I've ever seen in the heavyweight division in the UFC.

Francis Ngannou 45:22 Um-

Joe Rogan 45:23 It's you and Derrick Lewis. Is... You're the two biggest-

Francis Ngannou 45:25 May-

Joe Rogan 45:25 ... knockout artists ever.

Francis Ngannou 45:26 Maybe. But again, uh, I think in the heavyweight division, everybody can knock-

Joe Rogan 45:32 Yes.

Francis Ngannou 45:32 ... everybody out.

Joe Rogan 45:33 Yep.

Francis Ngannou 45:33 The problem is to connect.

Joe Rogan 45:36 Yes.

Francis Ngannou 45:36 That's the most problem, bro.

Joe Rogan 45:38 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 45:38 When you walk to... Everybody hit somebody in the shin-

Joe Rogan 45:42 Right.

Francis Ngannou 45:42 ... it's going down.

Joe Rogan 45:43 But can you connect?

Francis Ngannou 45:43 How to connect.

Joe Rogan 45:44 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 45:45 The delivery system.

Joe Rogan 45:46 Yes.

Francis Ngannou 45:46 And, uh, it's something that I w- uh, I heard once from Teddy Atlas, and, uh, it stick in my mind. Like, the delivery system.

Joe Rogan 45:56 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 45:57 You can have the biggest muscle, but if you can't hit your target-

Joe Rogan 46:03 Right.

Francis Ngannou 46:04 ... it's useless.

Joe Rogan 46:05 So, when do you get involved with Mike Tyson? When did that start happening?

Francis Ngannou 46:11 In who... In training or-

Joe Rogan 46:12 Yes. 'Cause I s- I've seen videos of you training with Tyson. How much have you trained with him?

Francis Ngannou 46:16 Uh, not too much. He come time to time. Not always. He's not always with me. But if you look, like, four years ago, exactly four years ago, uh, and that's when, uh, Tyson and I, we started to hit each other on social media.

Joe Rogan 46:31 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 46:32 And four years ago was the first time that I met Mike Tyson. I was on his, uh, podcast, the Hotboxin'. And, um, one request that I, uh, initiate at that time was, like, "Whenever I fight Tyson Fury, would you be in my corner?" And he said yes. I p- that is, that's even on my Instagram. It's still on my Instagram.

Joe Rogan 46:53 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 46:53 Like, the next day, I put that as a caption. Like, he said... Uh, I asked him if he can... he will be in my corner whenever I fight Tyson Fury.

Joe Rogan 47:01 Nice.

Francis Ngannou 47:01 And nobody believed that this could have happened. Like, okay, cool. Then what? And, uh, when I get to fight, I'm like, "Bro, that thing is happening. That thing is manifesting himself." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:14 Wow. And so, y- Tyson agrees to be in your corner. And did... Who are you training with mostly for boxing?

Francis Ngannou 47:23 I'm training, um, I'm training with Dewey. I also get-

Joe Rogan 47:27 Dewey Cooper?

Francis Ngannou 47:27 Dewey Cooper. Yeah. Um, I also get this, um, this guy from France named, uh, Jean Bumba that, uh, I used to work with him, work my... train my boxing with him. He's a young, uh, very young guy, you know? But I like his style, the way that he... his approach and stuff. And I really have a good connection with him. So WhatsApp, uh, I reach out. I mean, even before the fight, I was working with him, taking mi- taking him in Cameron, get some training already. And then when the fight get announced, I talk with him, then I brought him out. So he's in Vegas with me.

Joe Rogan 48:09 And so you started your journey in martial arts, you initially wanted to be a boxer?

Francis Ngannou 48:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:15 And then when you went to an MMA gym, they convinced you to fight-

Francis Ngannou 48:18 Oh, oh, oh, when I went to France.

Joe Rogan 48:19 Right.

Francis Ngannou 48:20 Yeah. No, he was even in a boxing gym that convinced me to be a MMA fighter.

Joe Rogan 48:24 For real?

Francis Ngannou 48:25 A guy from a boxing gym named Didier Camon, the first boxing gym that I get into. But he was also a martial artist himself, h- himself. And, uh, he said, "Bro, I think you have a very good potential. Uh...... and I think your best outcome now regarding your situation, because I was still homeless at the time, I think your best outcome would be MMA. If you ... That's ... I'm like, "What's MMA?"

Joe Rogan 48:55 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 48:55 He started to explain to me like, "You know, come ..." I'm like, "Ah, okay. That sport that they do in the cage?" He say, "Yes." I'm like, "Ah, I have seen it." He, he said, "If you train some, uh, rest, takedown defense and jujitsu." "What is jujitsu?"

Joe Rogan 49:12 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 49:12 Started to explain, "I think you're gonna be a UFC champion one day." "What is UFC?"

Joe Rogan 49:17 And how old were you when this was happening?

Francis Ngannou 49:19 Yeah. 27.

Joe Rogan 49:20 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 49:20 That was in 2013.

Joe Rogan 49:22 It's so crazy that you-

Francis Ngannou 49:23 June 2013.

Joe Rogan 49:24 People don't understand that you started this journey as an MMA fighter so late in your life, in, compared to most.

Francis Ngannou 49:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:32 Like a lot of these guys, they're training when they're 14, 15 years old, they're in MMA gyms and having amateur fights.

Francis Ngannou 49:39 Yeah. And I forced, I forced my way into MMA, and that's why, like, there was a lot of thing that I didn't understand properly, I didn't learn as a, uh, athlete growing up. And, uh, until I get to Stipe fight, the first Stipe fight. Man, that Stipe fight taught me a lot. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:56 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 49:56 About combat sport.

Joe Rogan 49:57 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 49:58 After that fight, I was at the press conference and telling people, like, "I think I have learned more in this fight because ..." Here I have been, what? Almost just four years, four years and half since I've been doing ... Bel- not even four years and a half since I've been doing MMA-

Joe Rogan 50:14 Right.

Francis Ngannou 50:14 ... when I fought Stipe the first, first time.

Joe Rogan 50:17 Crazy.

Francis Ngannou 50:17 Yeah. And I s- said, "I, I learned this night, tonight. Tonight, I learned more than I have learned in the past four years in th- this game." And I think people didn't understand, but I meant it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:31 Well, you certainly showed it in the rematch. You certainly showed it in the rematch.

Francis Ngannou 50:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:35 And Daniel Cormier pointed it out. He said, "Patient, Francis. You were patient in the second fight. You didn't just rush out and try to take him out in the first round. Much more dangerous."

Francis Ngannou 50:46 Be- Yeah. Because, my pre- all my previous fight before Stipe, I wasn't rushing, rushing on anybody.

Joe Rogan 50:53 What about Rozenstruik? You kind of rushed him.

Francis Ngannou 50:55 Huh? That was after.

Joe Rogan 50:56 Yeah. Oh, before, before Stipe.

Francis Ngannou 50:57 I mean, before the first, before the first fight.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Right.

Francis Ngannou 50:59 I wasn't rushing off on anybody. I was knocking people out without rushing.

Joe Rogan 51:04 Right.

Francis Ngannou 51:04 The mistake, the thing that I did is like, I get to the point that I really start to think about the knockout, which is something that I never thought about it. It just happened.

Joe Rogan 51:13 Right.

Francis Ngannou 51:14 Then I start to think about it, so that's where I rush.

Joe Rogan 51:17 You were trying to make it happen.

Francis Ngannou 51:18 Yeah. I was trying to make it happen. And obviously, at that time, there was a lot of pressure on me and everything.

Joe Rogan 51:24 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 51:24 So I was, I feel like I have to give a result. So that's why I was rushing. So I understand that night. I wa- ... I went back and watched that fight, and I saw me fight. I'm like, "Who'd- who is that guy? He just look like me, but I don't recognize. Why he's rushing? Why he's doing this?" So then I understand. I'm like, "Okay, maybe you just have to go back to your previous w- the previous way, the previous you, and then thing will be fine." Then I went back to my previous self.

Joe Rogan 51:56 Well, in the rematch, not only were you the previous you, but you were a way better version of you.

Francis Ngannou 52:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:01 You were very calculated, very technical. You-

Francis Ngannou 52:04 It was, it was four years, uh, what, three years after?

Joe Rogan 52:08 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 52:09 Yeah. So, of course, I have learned. I'm in the sport to learn. I know that I have a deficiency, so I pay a lot of attention than those people that grew up as a athletes, you know, doing different sport. Um, I always take that, uh, very seriously, the fact that... I mean, maybe sometime my power help me to get away with stuff. But I know that I have a deficiency, you know, as a, uh, as far as experience and everything, even techniques. Uh, because sometime I hear people say, "Oh, yeah, he didn't train wrestling in the training camp." I'm like, "Bro, come on. You think two, three-month training wrestling in the training camp will out-wrestle somebody that been wrestling his entire life?" No, you can't. You can't just find a way to go around, but, you know ... So that's how, that's how I process thing. I think about the advantage. I always think at my- self as a underdog.

Joe Rogan 53:14 So what did you change in your training after the first Stipe fight? Did you change anything?

Francis Ngannou 53:20 Y- First of all, I understand how to train properly. I understand how to train properly. And again, I just think about everything as a deficiency. I used to think that, uh, sometime they're- I'm like, "Oh, yes, he has a good striking. He's a boxer, he knock people out." I'm like, "No, I have no good striking." Everything has to, uh, involve, you know, whether it's my striking, my wrestling, my jujitsu. That's why people keep training. The day that you think like, "Oh, I'm good at this," that's the day that you start to go down.

Joe Rogan 53:54 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 53:54 Because y- you can't, you can't st- stay in same place like this.

Joe Rogan 53:59 Right.

Francis Ngannou 54:00 You're gonna permanently-

Joe Rogan 54:01 (sniffs) .

Francis Ngannou 54:01 ... try to go up. And even if you are not going up, that's how you can maintain your position. But if you stay comfortable with something, that's the day that you start to lose it.

Joe Rogan 54:14 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 54:15 So, I changed everything. I focused on everything, like, all the aspects, you know. It rea- that fight really helped me a lot. I think about my diet, I think about like the discipline, staff. I mean, usually, I'm, I'm pre- I'm, uh, I'm good with discipline. But I still think about everything, put everything in prospect, like, "Okay, is my diet okay?... it, by the way, after the Stipe fight, I decided to cut soda out for couple, couple while before. And since then, I never drink soda.

Joe Rogan 54:52 You were drinking a lot before?

Francis Ngannou 54:54 I... Oh, a ton.

Joe Rogan 54:56 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 54:57 A ton.

Joe Rogan 54:57 Even in training camp?

Francis Ngannou 54:59 A ton.

Joe Rogan 55:00 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 55:01 In training camp, I was eating croissant, everything. I was like, "No, I'm heavyweight." I was just focusing about my weight and not about my, uh, condition and all those aspect. I didn't know. You know the f- night before the Stipe fight, I was in the Fogo de Chão, eating all those steak?

Joe Rogan 55:21 That's good.

Francis Ngannou 55:22 Really?

Joe Rogan 55:23 Yeah, that's good for you.

Francis Ngannou 55:24 Before the fight?

Joe Rogan 55:24 Meat.

Francis Ngannou 55:25 Oh, no. It's not good at all.

Joe Rogan 55:27 Not good?

Francis Ngannou 55:28 Not at all. I was heavy as shit.

Joe Rogan 55:31 Oh, you ate too much.

Francis Ngannou 55:32 Oh... Ye-

Joe Rogan 55:32 Did you eat stuff with the meat, like potatoes and rice and-

Francis Ngannou 55:36 Of course. Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:37 Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's where it is.

Francis Ngannou 55:40 The night before the f- I, couple, like, maybe two, two hours or may- maybe one hour before g- worked in, in the arena, I was at Fogo de Chão.

Joe Rogan 55:49 An hour before you went to the arena?

Francis Ngannou 55:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:52 Wow.

Francis Ngannou 55:52 No, in the arena.

Joe Rogan 55:53 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 55:53 Because I, I went to the arena, like, maybe two hours before the fight. But three hours is not enough-

Joe Rogan 56:00 To digest all that food-

Francis Ngannou 56:02 ... to digest those, all those meats and stuff.

Joe Rogan 56:04 Yeah. And so in that fight, you learn all the lessons, and then you change your diet, you, uh, enhance your discipline, and you keep working on all your skills.

Francis Ngannou 56:16 Yeah. Then, you know how we are talking a- we were talking about patient?

Joe Rogan 56:21 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 56:21 That's how I walk into the Stipe fight, the Derrick Lewis fight, with, like, constantly tell myself, "Be patient." And I was there just, like, telling myself... I think I wasn't even in that fight. I was there, but I was still fighting Stipe.

Joe Rogan 56:36 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 56:36 I was like, "No, be patient. Be patient. Be patient."

Joe Rogan 56:39 You're still thinking about getting tired in that first fight, getting taken down, getting controlled. What were you thinking about?

Francis Ngannou 56:45 No, really, I was just thinking about, like, patient.

Joe Rogan 56:48 Patience. Just patience.

Francis Ngannou 56:49 Yeah. But I over, I overdo.

Joe Rogan 56:51 We overdid. We were too patient.

Francis Ngannou 56:52 You know, I overdid it, and it was too much. That's how it, it turned out. But I was like, "Be patient. You get this, you get this."

Joe Rogan 57:00 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 57:00 That's why at the end of the fight, I'm like, "Is it over or we still..." I was confused.

Joe Rogan 57:07 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 57:07 I didn't know that there was even a third round.

Joe Rogan 57:10 Really?

Francis Ngannou 57:10 Oh, yeah. I was really messed up, uh, mentally. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:14 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 57:15 I didn't know. I thought it was, I still have a round.

Joe Rogan 57:18 Oh, so what was that feeling like to go-

Francis Ngannou 57:20 And my corner was telling me, I mean, they was telling me everything's good. Like, "Okay, I think you get one round. Uh, the second round, maybe you get this. I don't know." And so how... I feel like everything was right. So my mind was playing me really bad. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:36 Oh.

Francis Ngannou 57:36 In that fight.

Joe Rogan 57:38 So what was it like when you went back and watched that fight?

Francis Ngannou 57:43 I didn't watch.

Joe Rogan 57:44 You didn't watch it?

Francis Ngannou 57:44 Yeah. I feel bad.

Joe Rogan 57:46 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 57:46 You know? I feel like I waste a bullet.

Joe Rogan 57:49 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 57:50 An important bullet.

Joe Rogan 57:52 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 57:52 And then, uh-

Joe Rogan 57:53 That sets you back.

Francis Ngannou 57:54 Yeah. I feel very bad. And then the reaction about it, uh, the way people react about it, you know, it get to the point that I kind of, like, tell myself, like, "Okay, screw this. Fuck everything, man." You know? Um, the reason why I get into combat sport, basically MMA, was because he was fun. I was never going to do MMA. I was j- I just kept training like, "Oh, it's fun. I like it. Let's keep going." Then I realized that that fun wasn't there anymore. And that's why I was falling down, because I start focus on about what people think, people reaction, people feelings, and then I forget the reason why I started the sport.

Joe Rogan 58:41 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 58:42 So now, I get the second fight against Curtis Blake in China, I'm like, "Okay, this might be the end. I don't think if I lose this fight, it's gonna be good for me."

Joe Rogan 58:52 Right.

Francis Ngannou 58:52 But at least I earned it, I, I earned it how I started, just by fun. Just go there, enjoy yourself, have fun, and don't worry about what's next. And then 45 seconds, the guy was down.

Joe Rogan 59:09 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 59:09 And then came Velasquez, 25 seconds, the guy was down. I was just there to have fun. Uh, Junior dos Santos, the guy was down. I'm like, "Seems like having fun-"

Joe Rogan 59:20 So you found your groove, you found your groove again.

Francis Ngannou 59:21 Yeah, like, having fun is exactly why I'm doing this and is why I'm good at it.

Joe Rogan 59:27 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 59:28 Let's just do it, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:29 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 59:30 So I don't... I try not to put pressure on me, on me. I'm like, every fight, I'm like, "I'm gonna go there, do my best, make sure that I, everything that should have been done is done on my end. And the rest, I don't control it."

Joe Rogan 59:45 Have you ever worked with a sports psychologist?

Francis Ngannou 59:49 Man, I don't believe in that. I try and-

Joe Rogan 59:52 (clears throat) No?

Francis Ngannou 59:52 But... No, I don't believe. I think everything is in, in our mind. What you... You can go out there trying to f- find all those stuff, but you have it in your mind.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:00:03 You can speak to yourself.

Joe Rogan 1:00:05 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:00:05 You can question to yourself. I mean, I don't need a sports psychology to tell me why I'm doing this. It's out of passion. I do this because I love it. It's, it's not a job, you understand?

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:00:19 I question myself, like, "Why did I get here? How come did I came from where I came from and get here?" Then I find all those reason, and then therefore, I put my s- my stuff together, right? Maybe some people do. Some people clearly need people to like, uh, uh, help them to control their self. Uh, I see that in a lot of fighter. Basically, they need, like, a coach or something, somebody to tell them what to do, like they don't know, like to tell them what time to train.

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:00:56 I'm like, "You know you have a fight."... you gonna, you schedule your training at this time, you have this and this to work on. You can schedule that and get there every day at the same time, uh, do your thing, go home, get ready for another day. But some people do need somebody to get them that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 So, do you schedule all your training?

Francis Ngannou 1:01:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 Everything?

Francis Ngannou 1:01:20 I schedule everything.

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 Really?

Francis Ngannou 1:01:21 Yeah. And my team, I organize all my team, you know, mostly about people that I feel the good energy about because, again, I don't believe in so many things. I don't believe in, like, "Oh, this guy is the great, uh, he's a great trainer. He can do this." No. I believe that everything comes from a fighter and the energy that people around him can bring, can help you win. So, when I ... In my team, I favor people energy. People like, how ... The energy that they brings around, you know, I favor them and that's how I judge if somebody is best or not, is by his energy.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:02:02 And that's how I get along with, um, pretty much everybody of my team. We, I judge everybody based on this energy. If I feel like this is ... I'd rather have a good person next to me and then not to say my, my team... My team is great. They are all great. Everybody's very professional, um, commit, but if I feel like somebody has this energy and not even great, as great, I prefer that person than somebody that is g- a great trainer and don't bring that energy because-

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:02:43 ... the energy is very important.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 Yeah, you know-

Francis Ngannou 1:02:46 You know, wha- wha- when you start to get tired, when you're in the tough situation, the voice that you can listen and t- trust is more important-

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:02:53 ... than the technique that you can learn. You can't know all the techniques in the world and if you get there, your mind is not right, you are not doing shit.

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 Mm. Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:03 But-

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 So, the energy of the people you got, that's all down.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 You got a great trainer in Dewey Cooper.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 He's fantastic.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:09 I, I get, I still get, um, I get Dewey Cooper, even Eric.

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 Eric Nicksick?

Francis Ngannou 1:03:14 Eric Nicksick.

Joe Rogan 1:03:15 Amazing.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:15 We're st- we're still in here because, um, I remember even how we get together, he wasn't much like a coach. I was in, uh, fighting Junior dos Santos and, uh, I have only Dewey Cooper or ... with Michael on my team and I reach out. I ask Michael, like, "We should bring somebody in the corner or something?" And he talk about Eric. Then I'm like, I always meet Eric around and he's nice and I'm like, "Yes, let's try him." And then he, we get to the locker. Suddenly, I feel the energy was great. You know, I'm like, "Man, this is good."

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:53 I like this vibe-

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:55 ... in my, in my team. That's for me, it's enough.

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:03:58 You know? That's why I like sometime I understand. Once I saw Mike Perry, he went to a fight with only his wife in his corner and then people was criticizing him.

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 1:04:08 I'm like, "I understand him."

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:04:11 He's doing the right thing. He understand how the games work. He just want a voice that can speak to him when he's tired, somebody that he trusts-

Joe Rogan 1:04:19 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:04:19 ... and all those stuff and everything.

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 He already knows how to fight.

Francis Ngannou 1:04:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:04:23 He knows how to fight.

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:04:24 Because nobody is going to raise your hand and punch on somebody head.

Joe Rogan 1:04:28 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:04:28 Or, like, nobody is gonna, uh, dodge a punch for you. Nobody gonna say, "Oh, knock him out now." You know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:04:35 It's just, it's ... Fighting game is mental, more mental and improvisation.

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 Mm. So, you schedule everything? You schedule your strength and conditioning, you schedule your sparring, you schedule everything? You just do it all based on how you feel and what you need to get done?

Francis Ngannou 1:04:52 Um, no, like, I schedule, I mean, I get a, uh, strength and conditioning, for example, uh, for this camp, I get, uh, Tripow is out here with me. So, we, we talk about the goal. What is the goal? What is the deficiency? What do we want? Where do we wanna get by the fight? We, we are 12 weeks out. Okay, what, this what we wanna work on and what is, would be the good space? Then we get that, a schedule. Then with the boxing team, we speak around. But always trying to, uh, get my team together so sometime they can just work together. They don't always need to come to me on staff, you know. They can ... My team can communicate together on the, also on my schedule, but yes.

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 So, when you train and you do strength and conditioning, are you using a heart rate monitor? Are you, um, paying attention to your resting heart rate, what it's like when you wake up, your heart rate variability? Do you get involved in any of those things?

Francis Ngannou 1:05:56 Uh, sometime, not always. Uh, sometime I, I even do the test to see where I am at, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 VO₂ max?

Francis Ngannou 1:06:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:04 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:06:05 The, um, yeah, even the VO₂ max. But we focus on, um, I think, like, the most important thing for me right now, my injuries.

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:06:19 It's all about my injuries, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 Do you have other injuries other than your knee?

Francis Ngannou 1:06:25 Uh, injury, no. I mean, you get sore, you get like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:06:30 ... if you get to a training camp, uh, to the end without f- pain some way, then you better worry. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:37 (laughs) You probably didn't do enough.

Francis Ngannou 1:06:38 Yeah, you probably didn't do it right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:06:41 So, that, that's, that's the thing. You always-

Joe Rogan 1:06:44 That's the reality of the sport.

Francis Ngannou 1:06:45 That's the reality of the sport. You can't, like, train hard for three months and feel great every day and don't feel like something's wrong.

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:06:53 No. That's mean-

Joe Rogan 1:06:54 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:06:55 You are not doing something right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Is it easier to train for boxing because you don't have to do the wrestling, you don't have to do the kicking? Is it, like, less likely that you get injured?

Francis Ngannou 1:07:05 Uh, sometime you think so, but when you get there, it's different. You know, like, in the first two weeks, uh, in the ... It wasn't even a training camp, it was a pre-camp. My first two week in boxing, straight boxing, I felt the, I felt the different. Of, of course you get excited, excited because, oh, you're not going to kick or take down or this. It's just boxing. Uh, or you're not going to, uh, you don't risk injury for your knee and that, because now I always think about my knee. Then you get there, you start to hit mid, hit pads, do all those stuff. Always your, uh, hands up, and then your shoulders start to hurt. Then you throw more punch in two weeks than you have ever thrown in the training camp, in the two month-

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 1:07:54 ... two, three month training camp. Then I'm like, "Ah, there is a different."

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:07:59 You know, your shoulder feel d- feels different.

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:08:01 Like, it's not the same thing. In MMA you throw one, two, kick. One, two, three, kick. One, take down. Uh, daily boxing, wrestling-

Joe Rogan 1:08:09 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:08:10 ... cage wrestling, all those stuff. Now, in boxing, your hands has to go all the time, and when it's not going, it has to be on your face, protecting your face. Otherwise-

Joe Rogan 1:08:21 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:08:21 ... you're gonna eat that punch clearly.

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 Yeah. So, when you prepare for a fight like this, you've never had a big professional boxing fight before, and this is the biggest of all time. I mean, you're, you're literally fighting the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Francis Ngannou 1:08:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 Uh, how do you know when to peak? How do you know, like, when you're ready? 'Cause you haven't done this kind of training before.

Francis Ngannou 1:08:47 Uh, you will never be ready. Even at fight night, you always think like, "Oh, if I have this, maybe I should've done this instead. Maybe I sh- this would've helped me." You know, when is a good time you have to go? So, you just have to make sure to get there in your best, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 The best you can do.

Francis Ngannou 1:09:08 The best you can do, without burnout, because there's also a balance in between.

Joe Rogan 1:09:13 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:09:13 Because if you overdo, then you burnout by the time you get to a fight.

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 That's why I was asking about heart rate monitors-

Francis Ngannou 1:09:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 ... a- and checking your resting heart rate and heart r- heart rate variability, 'cause one of the best ways to find out if you are over-trained is to check your resting heart rate when you wake up first thing in the morning.

Francis Ngannou 1:09:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 And if it's up eight beats a minute, 10 beats a minute, most likely you went too hard. And then they, they suggest, like, an active recovery day, a lighter training day, where you're, you're still moving, you're still working on technique, but you're not pushing, you're not really pushing.

Francis Ngannou 1:09:45 And you, uh, even when your heart rate monitor indicate that, I used to use the Oura watch.

Joe Rogan 1:09:52 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:09:52 And when it ind- it almost indicate how you feel.

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:09:56 You feel it.

Joe Rogan 1:09:57 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:09:57 You know? There is a ... Y- and then when you have a good team, they can also measure the, um, the, uh, mass of your training.

Joe Rogan 1:10:06 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:10:07 And they can also work around it. They know, okay, Monday and Tuesday we went hard on this. Wednesday has to be slow, and this, you know, maybe work on technique.

Joe Rogan 1:10:18 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:10:18 Or, like, on strength, on this and that, all those aspect, and that's why a team is very good about, because you can't, like, by yourself think about everything.

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:10:31 No.

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 No, you need other people.

Francis Ngannou 1:10:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:32 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:10:33 You need other people to help you b- because, uh, things get so big, you need other people to help you. And everybody's kind of, like, he have his own department to worry about.

Joe Rogan 1:10:45 Mm. And, um, so when you're training, how much sparring are you doing? How many days a week?

Francis Ngannou 1:10:52 Um, three or two sometime. It depends, again, how you feel and how the recovery been, how was the sparring.

Joe Rogan 1:11:02 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:11:02 You know, sometime you, you get sparring and you feel like, yeah, even though you did the amount of run- round that you are, you're supposed to do, but you wasn't that intense and this. Then the next day, now maybe you keep, you push again, you know. And sometime you just go to a sparring and, uh, that one is hard. The guy give you a hard time. You push, the pace is high, and this. Then next day, maybe need to recovery, not like recovery, but slow it down, give your shoulder-

Joe Rogan 1:11:37 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:11:37 ... some rest, because you'll always end up on maybe heavy bags. Like, it's all about that balance. But it's like two, trees a w- two, three a week.

Joe Rogan 1:11:47 And are you sparring with any world-class heavyweights?

Francis Ngannou 1:11:50 Um, world class? Uh, so far, no. The only guy that I used to spar with, which is a world class heavyweight, it's Carlos Takam, and he's now just coming in the training camp because, uh, he's also gonna fight in a under- undercard. Yeah, which is a world class. And, um, we're gonna get, um, there, we were talking about some guy that we'll bring in, like, experienced fighters, uh, boxer to spar.

Joe Rogan 1:12:22 What is it like for you (clears throat) to spar boxers and not be able to kick, not be able to take them down? Does it, uh, c- create any adjustment for you?

Francis Ngannou 1:12:33 I wasn't an expert of kicking either way, so ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:36 But you kick hard.

Francis Ngannou 1:12:37 Again, I wasn't an expert of kicking-

Joe Rogan 1:12:39 You might not be an expert.

Francis Ngannou 1:12:40 ... and I wasn't an expert of taking down. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:42 Right. (laughs) That's true. But you did defend your heavyweight title, a lot of it with wrestling 'cause of your knee.

Francis Ngannou 1:12:48 Yeah, because I couldn't do ... That was the only option that I had.

Joe Rogan 1:12:51 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:12:51 You know, I couldn't, I wasn't comfortable moving.

Joe Rogan 1:12:55 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:12:55 I was permanently-

Joe Rogan 1:12:56 You went ... We should tell people. You went into that fight to defend your heavyweight title with torn knee ligaments.

Francis Ngannou 1:13:03 Yeah, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:13:03 Your knee was fucked up going into that fight.

Francis Ngannou 1:13:05 ACMCL, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:13:07 That's crazy.

Francis Ngannou 1:13:08 Um, meniscus.

Joe Rogan 1:13:09 And you're fighting Ciryl Gane, who's the most agile, light-footed heavyweight in the division.

Francis Ngannou 1:13:14 He moves everywhere.

Joe Rogan 1:13:15 Woo.

Francis Ngannou 1:13:15 Like, I'm like, "Okay, you need, I need to figure a way."

Joe Rogan 1:13:19 Nobody moves like that guy.

Francis Ngannou 1:13:20 But ... Yeah. But one thing, uh, that helped me into that fight a lot-... I believe in myself.

Joe Rogan 1:13:26 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:13:26 I know that I'm gonna get him. I wasn't looking for a knockout. Once again, I wasn't looking for a knockout, but I know that I'm gonna have my opportunity at some moment in the fight.

Joe Rogan 1:13:37 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:13:38 That's where, like, the first two rounds, I was literally, like, worry about how to move and this and that. Like, "Oh, my knee. Oh, this." You know? But I was still confident and after the first two rounds, I'm like, "Man, I'm losing. It can't end like this. No, not like this. We need to, to do something now."

Joe Rogan 1:14:01 Switch it up.

Francis Ngannou 1:14:02 (laughs) To switch it up, man. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:14:04 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:14:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:05 Was that a, a, a satisfying victory for you though? Knowing that you could beat one of the best heavyweights in the world with only one leg?

Francis Ngannou 1:14:13 He was the m-... I... Satisfying? Yes, by far the best. Because there was... I was... It wasn't one fight at that night. That night, I was fighting like four opponents. I was fighting my demons, uh, my knee, this, everything that I was-

Joe Rogan 1:14:31 The contract.

Francis Ngannou 1:14:32 I was fighting the contract, I was fighting the narrative, I was fighting everything-

Joe Rogan 1:14:37 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:14:37 ... that can go wrong.

Joe Rogan 1:14:38 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:14:39 And, uh... And I couldn't have scripted this fight better than this. If you had asked me, like, "How would you like to win?" I would say, "Knockout, obviously." Which is the easiest way.

Joe Rogan 1:14:48 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:14:48 But everybody predicted me to be like, okay, he has a chance in the two first rounds to knock Ciryl out. After that his power is going down, then his cardio is going down. He has nothing. It was the completely opposite way. They say, "Oh, Ciryl Gane has a cardio after two round... After a fight... He can't fight two fights a night. "I'm like, "Bro, come on. It depends." You know? And at the end of the fight, I'm like, "I'm not sure that he's ready to fight another fight. To take another fight on tonight."

Joe Rogan 1:15:19 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:15:19 You know? And, uh, unlike what they predicted, I lost the two first round and I started to win from the third round.

Joe Rogan 1:15:28 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:15:28 Which is like the contrary of what they predicted. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:15:30 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:15:31 So.

Joe Rogan 1:15:31 But nobody knew that your knee was that fucked up either, though.

Francis Ngannou 1:15:35 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 1:15:36 The UFC, the UFC knew it was injured. They let you wrap it, right?

Francis Ngannou 1:15:39 No, no. They know. They know everything.

Joe Rogan 1:15:40 They knew everything?

Francis Ngannou 1:15:41 Yeah. When I did the MRI, he went to Dr. Deivison.

Joe Rogan 1:15:47 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:15:47 And then when he was explaining it to me, he said, "Only, uh, four people know about this by now. Dana, Hunter, you and I." That's when he was ex-... How he was explaining it to me.

Joe Rogan 1:15:59 Did you consider pulling out of the fight?

Francis Ngannou 1:16:01 (sighs) I thought... Yeah. In... You know, in the perfect scenario, I would have pulled out of the fight. You know? But I, I didn't wanna give them a opportunity-

Joe Rogan 1:16:13 Another extension.

Francis Ngannou 1:16:15 It wasn't about the extension. It was just to bury me.

Joe Rogan 1:16:19 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:16:20 I didn't wanna give the opportunity to bury me.

Joe Rogan 1:16:22 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:16:23 You know how...

Joe Rogan 1:16:24 (clears throat)

Francis Ngannou 1:16:24 You know how in this war they say, "Okay, I'm gonna die with my sword in my hand."

Joe Rogan 1:16:29 Yes.

Francis Ngannou 1:16:30 Yeah. It was about... It was like, "Okay, I'm dying with my sword in my hand."

Joe Rogan 1:16:34 Yeah. Poof. That's a lot of pressure.

Francis Ngannou 1:16:38 Yeah. But when I heard about... When they explained to me what was going on in my knee, I was very, um... I was very worry. Then for somehow, I call... I g-... I ca-... I, I called Kamaru or he called me. Anyway, we were in the phone and we were talking and he would explain me like, uh, what he had and this. And I remember once I saw him in Vegas when he fought, I think it was C- Koby Covington the first time. And the guy was messed up, man. He was working like this in a fight a week, getting cortisone shots here and there. I'm like, "Damn, this guy is going to fight..." No, I thi-... Maybe it was Ty- Tyron Woodley. Said, "So this guy is going to fight on Saturday?" I was so worried. I feel bad about it. Man, at that night, he was sharp.

Joe Rogan 1:17:38 Hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:17:39 Like, this is the guy that I saw him on Wednesday, he w- was barely able to walk. He was sharp. And I know exactly what was wrong with him. So that kind of, like, hurt me to believe that... Man, when it comes to the moment, you know, fighting, your fighting instinct will take off.

Joe Rogan 1:17:58 Kamaru is so strong mentally.

Francis Ngannou 1:18:00 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:18:01 If people knew how bad his knees are. His knees are so bad. He has to go backwards downstairs sometimes.

Francis Ngannou 1:18:08 Sometimes... Yeah. And then you'll be like, "Oh, his hips, his this." I'm like, "Bro, you can't pull out the fight." "No, he's going to fight." And then he show up to the fight.

Joe Rogan 1:18:21 Looks perfect.

Francis Ngannou 1:18:21 Looks perfect. I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:18:22 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:18:23 There's no way that is-

Joe Rogan 1:18:24 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 1:18:25 You know. So I kind of like... That kind of, like, inspired me, like, feel better about myself. I'm like, "Man, I can do this." You know. Like, "It's not over yet."

Joe Rogan 1:18:34 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:18:35 I still have something left.

Joe Rogan 1:18:37 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:18:37 So I keep... Even though I couldn't train anymore, I couldn't rest, so I couldn't do anything. And I was three weeks away from... Three weeks and a half away from the fight. So I started to focus on my air bike. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:18:51 Cardio.

Francis Ngannou 1:18:52 Cardio, up work, you know, body work. But it wasn't, wasn't easy. But I think my air bike helped me a lot, because from not being trained for over three weeks before the fight and get there like that, it wasn't too bad.

Joe Rogan 1:19:07 That air bag's a motherfuck. The air bike? Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:11 Air assault. I, I use the Echo bike. The Rogue Echo bike.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:14 No. I, I always use the assault. I like the assault one, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:19:17 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:17 I like the grind. Like, ha-ha-ha-ha.

Joe Rogan 1:19:19 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:20 You feel the monster.

Joe Rogan 1:19:21 Gears. Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:22 Yes. You feel the monster-

Joe Rogan 1:19:23 Yeah. (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 1:19:23 ... like you're pushing through your knee.

Joe Rogan 1:19:26 Such a good workout.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:26 So, yeah. I, I, I have it in my, uh, living room. I sit in the room and put the TV in front, and I will ride that thing, like, for hour.

Joe Rogan 1:19:35 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:36 Yeah, to work on my cardio.

Joe Rogan 1:19:38 Yeah, it's amazing for cardio. It's my favorite machine.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:41 And for heavyweight, you better ... It's not great for you being out there run- running-

Joe Rogan 1:19:45 Right. Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:46 ... on the concrete or putting all those weight on your joint.

Joe Rogan 1:19:49 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:19:49 With, with the, uh, as with the air bike, you do the same thing without putting all those stress into your joint. I'm like, "Man, I think this is, like, probably the best device for me." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20:02 Yeah. No, it's the best device for a lot of people. It's a phenomenal piece-

Francis Ngannou 1:20:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:05 ... of equipment. So, what else were you doing for recovery? Do you get massages? Do you use the sauna? Do you use the cold plunge? What else do you do?

Francis Ngannou 1:20:14 Physical therapy. I just get a cold plunge from Plunge. Um, and then, uh, I set it ... I set that up. I was able to make it work this week. Um, I use that. I do the hyperbaric, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:20:29 Oh, nice.

Francis Ngannou 1:20:30 Yeah, I do the hyperbaric chamber. I have a friend in Vegas who has a, um, um, a hyperbaric, uh, store. So, she's even part- partner with Miesha Tate, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:20:44 Oh, okay.

Francis Ngannou 1:20:44 ... and, uh, Janelle. They have a, uh, DeSimone, uh, hyperbaric, so I go there sometime. They have this hardcore one. I used to, like, get someone in my house, but he will be the soft one.

Joe Rogan 1:20:57 Yeah, it's not as good.

Francis Ngannou 1:20:58 Yeah, it's not as good.

Joe Rogan 1:20:59 No, you want a real one.

Francis Ngannou 1:21:00 You can ... Yeah, you can also ... I think that can only go to 1.3 or something.

Joe Rogan 1:21:03 Yeah, you want two.

Francis Ngannou 1:21:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:04 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:21:05 With, with the hard one, you go to two.

Joe Rogan 1:21:06 Well, you should a- you should explain. That means there are two environments. Two, two, uh, twice the normal oxygen in the environment.

Francis Ngannou 1:21:14 Yeah. So, I go to the ... I go there time to time, dive into that thing. And then-

Joe Rogan 1:21:19 Yeah. No, that's phenomenal for recovery.

Francis Ngannou 1:21:21 ... go home. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:22 That's great that ... So you're using all most sophisticated materials and equipments. And what about supplements? Do you, do you have someone who monitors your supplements and your nutrition?

Francis Ngannou 1:21:31 I try. Yes, for nutrition, always. Uh ...

Joe Rogan 1:21:34 Do you have a chef?

Francis Ngannou 1:21:34 When I have a fight, I have a chef, yes.

Joe Rogan 1:21:36 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:21:36 I have a chef. I always do, do that when I have a fight. Um, but for supplement, I don't know. I never able to, like, connect with ... to like, get it on with supplement. I always like, w- ... I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:21:51 Take 'em, don't take 'em, forget to take 'em.

Francis Ngannou 1:21:53 Yeah. Take 'em, don't take 'em. I used to be at the PI and then, uh, Glen there will always, like, get those back ready for me. And with all the, um, the vi-

Joe Rogan 1:22:03 Vitamins.

Francis Ngannou 1:22:04 The vitamins and how to take it every day.

Joe Rogan 1:22:06 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:22:07 And I would take it, like two, three, four days. And after-

Joe Rogan 1:22:11 Just quit?

Francis Ngannou 1:22:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:12 Did you notice a difference? Taking it or not taking it?

Francis Ngannou 1:22:14 I don't know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:22:15 (laughs) It's all hard, right?

Francis Ngannou 1:22:17 I don't know. It's-

Joe Rogan 1:22:18 It's all hard.

Francis Ngannou 1:22:18 It's really hard. But-

Joe Rogan 1:22:20 One thing that you don't have to think about with this fight is your weight. Like, you don't have to make the 265-pound weight limit.

Francis Ngannou 1:22:27 Well, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:22:28 What are you ... Like, what are you walking around at?

Francis Ngannou 1:22:29 It's the, it's the, it's the different because, like, the weight limit, uh, when ... Even when I fight MMA, sometime I get there at 260, below 260.

Joe Rogan 1:22:38 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:22:38 Uh, I don't ... It's not because I'm cutting weight. It's because-

Joe Rogan 1:22:42 You're not thinking about it.

Francis Ngannou 1:22:42 Yeah, I don't ... I'm not thinking about it. I mean, I do work in order to, like, get my weight down. But I don't cut weight, I don't, like, have a big process of-

Joe Rogan 1:22:51 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:22:51 ... uh, diet, you know, to cut weight.

Joe Rogan 1:22:54 Dehydration.

Francis Ngannou 1:22:54 No, I just train properly and eat properly with the chef and sometime by myself to get there. But, um, even now, I still have to think about it because I go ... Based on the game plan, you know, I don't wanna have a extra 10 pound, unnecessary 10 pound on me.

Joe Rogan 1:23:12 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:23:12 But at the same time, I don't also want to lose strength because, as I said, this guy is a big dude.

Joe Rogan 1:23:19 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:23:20 And, uh, he has his skills to like, like to le- uh, like to lean on people.

Joe Rogan 1:23:25 Lean on you, yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:23:25 People weigh them down, stuff like that, you know. And when I think they're gonna be a little bit of a wrestling there, I need to get my strength right. So, it has to be a balance. And, um, I work around, like, 275, 280. My normal weight. Work around with. But I think might get in the fight at 265. I don't know. It depend on how we decide to ... this to go.

Joe Rogan 1:23:56 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:23:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:57 So, without giving away too much of your strategy, how do you envision this fight taking place? Like, what ... You've never boxed a heavyweight like him before, but you obviously have tremendous skills and power. What ... How do you envision this fight taking place?

Francis Ngannou 1:24:15 Well, it's very hard to envision, you know. Um, sometime I just visualize the fight, me there in the ring. I suppose I gonna be the blue corner, being there waiting for him to get in the ring. He know all this. He knows all the sides of the ring. He's been there. He know all the corner, how to move, how to cut, everything. And I gonna be there figure out how to cut the ring, you know. It's really hard. I think I just gonna focus on, like, being composed, you know. Don't think about too much stuff. And again, I would like the knockout, but, you know, Tyso- Tyson is very slicky and, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:25:04 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:25:04 ... you can't go like, you wanna knock him out. So, I'm preparing in the way that this fight can go all the way to tenth round.

Joe Rogan 1:25:14 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:25:14 Yeah. Which is a, a disadvantage for me. I never fought boxing at that level, you know. So, managing my energy, how I gonna be feeling with all the pressure and the adrenaline, how it gonna be.... like, in the 10 rounds, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:25:34 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:25:35 So how can I maximize it the most is, is about that. It's a lot of... I visualize it a lot and think about it, trying to be there that night waiting for him. See him come, do his show-

Joe Rogan 1:25:51 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:25:51 ... you know, get there. Trying to do his slick stuff, you know, weigh me down, slick dirty boxing, come close. Trying to lean on my head because he is taller than me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:26:07 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 1:26:09 But I think, yeah... But I think I can, uh, I can handle that dirty, dirty boxing properly because usually, like, box- boxing guy, I have seen a lot in sparring and since everybody wanna do the same thing like Tyson, like, trying to make- prepare you for that. There's still those wrestling trick that you can get into. Sometime I like- I'm like, go under the shoulder-

Joe Rogan 1:26:37 Mm.

Francis Ngannou 1:26:37 ... and step in their back.

Joe Rogan 1:26:39 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:26:39 T- yeah. Which is something that boxer, they don't do, they don't know. So, yeah, and that I don't have to worry about that still.

Joe Rogan 1:26:49 Are you going to have, like, I know that when Sugar Ray Leonard made his comeback, one of the things that he did was he had actual fights, like, to prepare himself so he didn't have any ring rust. He would have actual fights in the gym with, like, regulation-sized gloves, no head gear, 10 rounds, 12 rounds, whatever it was. He would have actual fights.

Francis Ngannou 1:27:10 I think we had that a lot of time.

Joe Rogan 1:27:12 Yeah.

Francis Ngannou 1:27:12 I mean, we fight MMA with four-ounce gloves.

Joe Rogan 1:27:15 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:27:15 Right? And we don't fight with head gear. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:27:18 Right, right.

Francis Ngannou 1:27:20 With kicks and everything, uh, so I'm not worried about that. And we used to spar... When you're a MMA fighter, they don't spar boxing with a protection-

Joe Rogan 1:27:31 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:27:32 ... with the head gear and stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:27:33 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:27:33 They just go in the gym. They don't worry the size of their gloves.

Joe Rogan 1:27:37 Right.

Francis Ngannou 1:27:38 But boxing guys, they come to the gym, everything is checked, like, what's the size of the gloves? The check, the head gears, the this, the cup, and all the stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:27:50 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:27:50 I mean, now I do that to protect myself. I have a fight in less than six weeks, so I take all those precaution, uh, but I'm not- I don't think I'm gonna do that by now, you know. If I was six months out, yes, I can do something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:28:06 Mm-hmm.

Francis Ngannou 1:28:06 But now, I have no interest of doing that. I know I can deal with that. I have getting- I have got hit with four-ounce gloves, uh, you know, in the fight. I've been there. I haven't done boxing yet, but I have been in fighting.

Joe Rogan 1:28:20 Yes.

Francis Ngannou 1:28:20 More than once, so... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:28:22 (laughs)

Francis Ngannou 1:28:22 I gonna be okay. And one thing that, um... And we are gonna- we are going to talk about is, um, Tyson gloves. His- he's very tricky with his glove.

Joe Rogan 1:28:36 With his gloves?

Francis Ngannou 1:28:36 I think it's cheat, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:37 You think he's cheating?

Francis Ngannou 1:28:37 I have heard. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:38 Why?

Francis Ngannou 1:28:38 I