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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #147 with Sean O'Malley & Tim Welch

Joe is joined by UFC Bantamweight Champion "Sugar" Sean O'Malley & coach Tim Welch.

Joe RoganhostSean O'MalleyguestTim Welchguest
Jun 27, 20243h 30mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:06

    Intro

    1. NA

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

  2. 0:06 – 1:13

    Sean returns as UFC champ: the surreal feeling after beating Aljo

    1. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) And we're up. Boys, when were ... We did the first one together-

    2. SO

      Yep.

    3. JR

      ... was it, like, five years ago?

    4. SO

      Yeah, I think it was 2017, right? Or 2018?

    5. TW

      Yeah. I was somewhere around then.

    6. SO

      I was 2-0 in the UFC. I was just coming off the Andre-Soccer mom fight where I broke my foot. Um, 20 ... yeah, I was 23.

    7. JR

      Yeah, that was just after your broken foot, right?

    8. SO

      (coughs)

    9. TW

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Yeah. And now here you are, the fucking champ of the world.

    11. TW

      (laughs)

    12. SO

      Fucking, we did it.

    13. JR

      Living in a dream.

    14. SO

      Like, (laughs) it's crazy 'cause that whole fight week, I always take a lot of naps fight week, especially 'cause it was on the East Coast and we were trying to stay up late. And I would have crazy, vivid dreams, not necessarily about the fight, but just really vivid dreams. And, uh ... So after the fight, I just felt like I was kind of in one of those dreams. I'm like-

    15. TW

      Hmm.

    16. SO

      ... "There's no way that went out, uh, that, that played out perfect. There's no way that played out literally how I wanted it to play out." So for a while I kept thinking like, "I'm gonna wake up in my bed and still have to go out there and do that." But I haven't woke up from a nap yet, so-

    17. TW

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. SO

      ... we're still rolling.

  3. 1:13 – 2:57

    Dreams, weed breaks, and psychedelics: why Sean avoids DMT during his fighting prime

    1. JR

      Well, it makes you wonder what dreams really are.

    2. SO

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      It c- uh, i- it's so weird that we just accept that we close our eyes every night and scenarios take place that don't really take place, and they seem super vivid. And, and then weird things happen in them, and then you wake up and you're like, "Oh, that wasn't real." But we just accept that ... There's many times where I've been in a lucid dream, or many times I've been in a dream that felt so real.

    4. SO

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Like, uh, wha- what ... You know, like, what's going on in our heads?

    6. SO

      Probably a lot during, uh, Sober October for you too 'cause I noticed when I s-

    7. TW

      Yeah.

    8. SO

      ... quit smoking weed in camp, like when I get closer to the fight, my dreams are so fucking vivid.

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. SO

      It's kinda scary. It's like a snapshot of another dimension. I'm like, "That ... Could that possibly be us in another dimension witnessing our life play out some other way?"

    11. JR

      It c- it could be that what you're doing is, like, peeking. You're like, every night you, like, peak-

    12. SO

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      ... into some other dimension and then-

    14. SO

      Yep.

    15. JR

      ... pop back up in the morning when you wake up. That mean-

    16. SO

      (laughs)

    17. JR

      ... that's one, that's one of the theories about DMT, that it's some sort of a chemical gateway to the next dimension or the next realm of existence. And that when the lights go out and then your brain floods with that stuff, your consciousness uses that chemical as a gateway.

    18. SO

      Yeah. I've never, we've never done DMT. I've, I've, I've told myself I wanna do, like, DMT, ayahuasca, that stuff after fighting. 'Cause right now I have a mindset to, "I wanna be World Champ, I wanna be the greatest, I wanna kill in the cage." But I feel like if I do something like that, maybe I, I switch that around. I wanna wait.

    19. JR

      Yeah, might be a problem.

    20. SO

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      You might become loving. (laughs)

    22. SO

      Yeah. That, that's literally the issue. I'm like, "All right. I, I still have that fucking want to kill."

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. SO

      It's weird.

    25. JR

      Not a strong Strickland want to kill, but, like, in the cage- (laughs)

    26. SO

      ... like, dominate.

    27. JR

      Yeah, dominate.

  4. 2:57 – 5:07

    Bantamweight chessboard: Sandhagen’s unpredictability, Umar’s threat, and building big fights

    1. TW

      When we were talking to Dana too, he said Cheeto has recently started doing mushrooms when he was training and stuff. I wonder if that has-

    2. SO

      That wasn't Dana.

    3. TW

      ... anything to d- Yeah, it wasn't Dana. Uh, w- I wonder if that has anything to do with his, uh, performances w- versus Sandhagen and stuff. Just looks stuck in the mud.

    4. JR

      I think it's just Sandhagen.

    5. SO

      I, that's what I think. Sandhagen was just way faster, way ...

    6. JR

      He's so diverse.

    7. SO

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      He's got so much going on. I love watching that guy fight because, like, when he's going after folks, he's giving them so many looks.

    9. SO

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JR

      There's so much going on. And you don't ... It's ... There's ... The patterns are nonexistent. I mean, I'm sure they exist, but I'm not picking them up. There's-

    11. SO

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      ... so there's ... You know, you think he's gonna kick, he shoots. You think he's gonna punch, he kicks. There's s- movement to the side. You think he's gonna engage and he doesn't. Whatever.

    13. SO

      Yeah, his last three flights, fights too, he's been really wrestling a lot. So you gotta-

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. SO

      ... think, like ... 'Cause I, I don't know. I could fight ... I mean, there's a couple different people I could fight next, but, like, thinking about fighting Cory, it's like, "Okay, is he gonna be ... turn into that wrestler or is he gonna wanna strike or is he-

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. SO

      ... gonna mix it up?" I'm assuming, you know, going into a fight with Cory he's gonna wanna mix it up a bit, but-

    18. JR

      You just don't know.

    19. SO

      ... yeah, it's interesting.

    20. JR

      He can do anything.

    21. SO

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      And the fact that he pulled that fight off with a completely torn (blows air) tricep, first round, tears the tricep from the bone, needs surgery. And, you know ...

    23. SO

      I was excited for that fight too.

    24. JR

      Yeah, me too.

    25. SO

      I watched ... I, I mean, I stopped watching at one point. I think that was the same night, like, Jake, Nate. So I was kinda flipping back and forth. But, yeah, I was, I was so excited for that fight. I thought it was gonna be one of those bangers. But, I mean, he did what he had to do to win. Just-

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. SO

      ... it just super ... Not in ... It wasn't super entertaining.

    28. JR

      Yeah, I was really interested in seeing him fight Umar.

    29. SO

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      That was the interesting one.

  5. 5:07 – 8:39

    Injuries, durability genes, and training paths: sparring volume vs longevity

    1. JR

      And there's so many eyes on the bantamweight division now, you know? The bantamweight division has always been, like, just g- the ... A fucking murderers row.

    2. SO

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      From Renan Barao-

    4. SO

      Mm-hmm.

    5. JR

      ... to TJ Dillashaw. Like, across the board. Dominic Cruz, you know? Goddamn. I mean, and some Mer- Kro- Cody Garbrandt. Like, people, like, p- forget because of Cody's losses, but how co- good Cody is when he's on.

    6. SO

      Mm-hmm.

    7. TW

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      You know? Co- Cody's just a guy who's been in a lot of wars, you know?

    9. SO

      Seems like he's got (laughs) just injury issues too, right?

    10. JR

      A lot of injury issues.

    11. SO

      Which sucks.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. SO

      I remember after one of my fights I got injured and he said, "Some people just aren't built for this." And that didn't age well for him.

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. SO

      But, I mean, hey, dude, I'm fuck ... I feel like I'm fragile sometimes too. If I didn't start working with Brandon, Brandon Harris, like my strength and conditioning coach, and Dan Garner m- for nutrition, like, I feel like I was getting injured all the fucking time.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. SO

      It sucks. This sport's brutal.

    18. JR

      It's the most brutal. And there's no way to prevent that, really.

    19. SO

      No.

    20. JR

      You know, some people are incredible, like Jim Miller.

    21. SO

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      Jim Miller's never had surgery.

    23. SO

      I feel like it's their genes. They're just, they're-

    24. JR

      Must be.

    25. SO

      They've gotta be.

    26. JR

      'Cause he's got some weird fucking woodsman genes.

    27. SO

      Yeah, yeah.

    28. JR

      (laughs) Some logger genes. (laughs)

    29. SO

      Right?

    30. TW

      Like a Benson Henderson. It's crazy there's just so many different-

  6. 8:39 – 14:44

    Big cards and heavyweight intrigue: Stipe’s layoff, Jon Jones questions, and striking tech talk

    1. SO

      I can't, that's crazy they just added that to the co-main event for Jon Jones and Stipe, 'cause neither of them are champions, so they're gonna stack that fucking card and only have to pay out Jon Jones 'cause he's the champion for pay-per-view.

    2. JR

      Oh, that's interesting.

    3. SO

      That's why- that's probably why they-

    4. JR

      Look at you thinking like a businessman now. (laughs)

    5. SO

      Oh, I know. (laughs)

    6. JR

      The champ thinks like a businessman.

    7. SO

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      Yeah, I hear you.

    9. SO

      I've been thinking like a businessman. I've been... I feel like I've been champ for a long time, they just find the official. But, uh, yeah-

    10. JR

      That's awesome.

    11. SO

      ... no, it's, that- that card's gonna be fucking sweet.

    12. JR

      That's cool.

    13. SO

      Who else is on that card? I th- I know-

    14. JR

      It's a good question. Pull it up, Jeremy.

    15. SO

      I think, I think there's another, another banger on that card, but-

    16. JR

      Yeah. They, they always try to stack New York City.

    17. SO

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      Th- that Madison Square Garden card is special. There's something special about that arena.

    19. SO

      Yeah.

    20. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      That arena gives you goosebumps just walking in, you're like, "Goddamn."

    22. SO

      That TD Garden was fucking crazy, 'cause I had, my first, like, nine fights in the UFC were all in Vegas, Vegas, Vegas, Vegas, and then I fought in Abu Dhabi, and then we ph- went to Boston. So that was the first time fighting somewhere other than Vegas in the United States.

    23. JR

      Yeah, so those are the two big ones. And scroll down, see the rest of it? Jessica Andrade and Mackenzie Dern, that's a good fight.

    24. SO

      Okay. That's one of Tyson's, but not what I was thinking.

    25. JR

      Jared Gordon, Mark Madsen, that's a good fight match, no. Yeah, I thought there was more bangers.

    26. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    27. SO

      Uh, sometimes they have a m- nice pa- uh, prelim. Nice main event prelim.

    28. JR

      Yeah, what's the prelim? Go to the ESPN...

    29. NA

      I don't... It's not announced yet on here.

    30. SO

      Mackenzie Dern-

  7. 14:44 – 20:45

    Sean’s next defense, the Apex small cage debate, and Rogan’s “no cage” dream

    1. JR

      So, um, the next fight is not officially announced-

    2. SO

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      ... but you believe it'll be Chito.

    4. SO

      I want it to be Chito. I called that before the fight. Once they announced that- well, Chito was supposed to fight Henry on my card, so I was like, "I want the winner of that."

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SO

      "I want Chito versus Hen- I want the winner of that if I go out there and do what I do against Aljo." Um, Henry pulled out, Pedro stepped up, and I was like, "Well, if Chito wins, makes sense," you know? So that's- that's what I want.

    7. JR

      Why has, uh, Pyor Yan been on the shelf?

    8. SO

      He just fight- got to announce Song Yadong.

    9. JR

      Oh, when's that?

    10. SO

      Uh, I think that's sooner than later, actually, but that's fucked, Peter, (laughs) 'cause Song's an id- Like, Song's-

    11. JR

      He's an animal.

    12. SO

      ... is a problem.

    13. JR

      That was another great fight with, uh- we went to see the Sandhagen-Song Yadong fight at the Apex, which is incredible.

    14. SO

      Jesus. Yeah.

    15. JR

      Have you gone to just the Apex just to watch a fight?

    16. SO

      We watched the contender series there, once.

    17. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SO

      It was fucking cool.

    19. JR

      I was thinking about flying out last weekend for Fiziev versus Gamrot. I was like, "I want to see that one."

    20. SO

      Where was that at? Oh, Vegas?

    21. JR

      That was at, that was at the Apex. Which, it's the best place to see fights, man.

    22. SO

      I hate the small cage. It i- it makes no-

    23. JR

      Oh, yeah, it's a da- it's a big difference, right?

    24. SO

      I hate it. It's so- I'm- I'm- I'll- I'll probably never- well, I guess if it's at the Apex. I'll never fight in a small cage again. I just- it's so- it's not- it doesn't help my style. I like being able to move around as much as possible. I-

    25. JR

      Here's why I'm confused. Why? Why have a small cage when you own the arena?

    26. SO

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      Like, they had a small cage back when we used to do the Pearl at the Palms.

    28. SO

      Mm-hmm.

    29. JR

      Because it was a smaller place to put-

    30. SO

      Yeah.

  8. 20:45 – 37:48

    Judging and scoring problems: 10-8 controversy, ‘significant strikes,’ and judge perspective

    1. NA

      I wonder why, uh, Dana or any of them haven't looked into yellow cards, where your purse gets taken from you.

    2. JR

      That's a good, good question. Well, the problem with that is it's so subjective, right?

    3. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JR

      Like, let's look at this, uh, Valentyna Shevchenko, Alexa Grasso rematch where one judge scores the final round, a pivotal fight round. It's like, that's what makes the fight. One judge scores it 10-8. No one agrees with him. Literally no one agrees with him. You're like, "What the fuck?"

    5. SO

      'Cause if he didn't score it a 10-8, and he just scored it 10-8-

    6. JR

      Valentyna wins. Then Valentyna wins.

    7. SO

      I went back and watched it just once, but I was kinda surfing on my phone. I think Grasso won three out of the five rounds, but I also... Like I said, I was surfing a little bit on my phone.

    8. JR

      Yeah, it's hard. I- it's hard to casually watch a fight.

    9. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    10. SO

      Yeah. You gotta fucking-

    11. JR

      Yeah. I like watching fights with... L- like, Eddie Bravo taught me how to do this 'cause Eddie Bravo, at one point in time, was, uh, doing the, uh, Max Kell... not Max Kellerman. Who's that dude that, uh... Letterman.

    12. NA

      Mm.

    13. JR

      That does it on... Harold Letterman? He used to do it on HBO Fights where, in between a round, "I gave that round to Davis 10-8, and this is why..." And he would give, like-

    14. SO

      Uh-huh.

    15. JR

      ... his ex- explanation for what he thought. So, he was basically like an independent scorekeeper. So, Eddie would do that, and he... We would... It was like... We did it for a few UFCs where he would come in, and he would talk about, like, we're going to Eddie Bravo with, you know, what he thinks-

    16. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      ... happened score-wise. And he would take a piece of paper, and he would have two sides, like one side would be this guy, one side would be that guy.

    18. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      And he would write on the, on the lines, like, kicks, punches, takedowns, power, like power shots. He had like... I forget all of his criteria. So, as he's watching the fight, he's writing things. So, it's not just going on memory, "I think he got a more..." Uh, and he also-

    20. NA

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      ... had access to whatever stats we had at the time, although I don't think we had the kind of stats you have now, where you're... Now, you're getting constantly updated on, you know, significant strikes.

    22. SO

      What is a significant strike? It's tricky.

    23. JR

      That's a, that was a weird one in Izzy and Strickland, right?

    24. SO

      Mm.

    25. NA

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      Because they were showing that, that, you know, that i- there's one point where Izzy had landed more significant strikes. I'm like, "But to where?" Like, what-

    27. NA

      W- yeah.

    28. JR

      ... is a significant strike is like a leg kick that gets checked. Are you calling that a significant strike? Like, what is... If a guy lifts his leg up, and the leg-

    29. NA

      Mm.

    30. JR

      Yeah, he did get kicked hard, but, like, what is... H- here's Eddie Bravo. It's Randy Silver-

  9. 37:48 – 41:16

    Weight cutting: ‘sanctioned cheating,’ recovery windows, and the eating-disorder trap

    1. SO

      Those weight cuts are not fucking good for you.

    2. TW

      Remember not long, not long ago, the... Remember the commissions would start at 24 hours-

    3. SO

      Oh, God.

    4. TW

      ... before the event would start?

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    6. SO

      That was right before I got in the UFC. I'm so fucking glad they changed that and we can weigh in at 9:00 AM. It's a game-changer.

    7. TW

      Really is.

    8. JR

      Yeah. It's a ch- well, really, what they should figure out how to do is not have weight cutting.

    9. SO

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JR

      We really would... The best thing to do would be to have more weight classes and to have just, just eliminate that whole bullshit.

    11. SO

      I won-

    12. JR

      It's cra- it's crazy.

    13. SO

      I wonder what Aljo would fight at, then. Because, like we were talking about earlier, that motherfucker get up... Gets up to 170 pounds.

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. TW

      Like-

    16. JR

      I bet he'd fight at 165.

    17. SO

      160? That's crazy.

    18. JR

      Yeah. That's what I think he would fight at. I think that... You know, he'd fight-

    19. SO

      He'd fight at 155.

    20. JR

      He'd fight actual 165-pound guys.

    21. SO

      Yeah.

    22. TW

      Mm-hmm.

    23. JR

      Look, I mean, I'm not d- disparaging anybody doing it, 'cause it's part of the sport, but it's sanctioned cheating.

    24. SO

      Mm-hmm.

    25. TW

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      That's what it is. You're not really 135 pounds.

    27. SO

      No.

    28. JR

      Like, Aljo's not 135 pounds.

    29. SO

      I do find the... I do find advantages in there, 'cause I know I'm doing it right.

    30. TW

      Mm-hmm.

  10. 41:16 – 46:06

    The Aljo camp: illness, rib strain, no grappling, and ‘life or death if he grabs me’

    1. SO

      That last camp, about th- two and a half, no, probably three weeks out, I had this... some meat that did not sit well with my stomach. I had diarrhea bad for like 10 days, to the point where I was getting a little worried. I'm like, "Okay." 'Cause I was looking stuff up, and it's like you've had... if you have diarrhea for, like, more than two or three days or whatever, it's like you probably got a parasite or some shit. For 10 days, every single night I would wake up two to three times. Right when I woke up in the morning, I had to sh- fucking shit my brains out. It was... And I... But my weight came down real fast, so that... I was like, "Well, I guess that's a benefit," 'cause I was like 155, 156, and then by the end of those 10 days, I was walking around like 152. I was like, "Well, that worked out." But that sucked. Remember that? Fuck.

    2. TW

      And it... It's crazy for that camp too, because usually we'd be working a lot on the wall, a lot of different stand-ups, a lot on our guard, developing the guard, no omoplotas and stuff instead of giving up your back. But we literally didn't get to grapple, zero.

    3. SO

      Yeah. For six-

    4. TW

      Five weeks out.

    5. SO

      ... six weeks out to the day from the fight. But yeah, it b- could've been beneficial 'cause we were doing a lot of mitts. I was just hitting mitts, hitting mitts, shadow boxing, boxing.

    6. TW

      ... focusing on not getting grabbed and what did you have it in your head saying, "If I get grabbed, I'm dead"?

    7. SO

      It's life or... Well, I was going into that fight h- when I was 100% healthy six weeks, before the fight got announced, I'm like, "It's life or death if he grabs me." Not because I don't think I can grapple, but that's the mindset I want because that's really gonna make it to where I'm not gonna let... And if he does grab me, I'm gonna do everything I'm fucking capable of. That's why I tried to... I mean, I feel like I got out of that so fast. Like, the longer we're here, the better it is for him. But yeah, so we went into that fight life or death if he grabs me. And then when I got that injury, I was like, "It's just that times fucking 10."

    8. TW

      (laughs)

    9. SO

      "I cannot let this motherfucker touch me again."

    10. TW

      And so what was the extent of this?

    11. SO

      I had a muscle strain in between my ribs and I couldn't even get into like a light clinch. I don't know, it fucking just... Yeah, it hurt so bad. I haven't even tried to grapple since the fight yet too, 'cause I'm dealing with this little back injury right now, so. But I'm hoping by now it should be good. The muscle strains are fucked.

    12. TW

      Mm, the ones in between the rib are so hard.

    13. SO

      (sighs)

    14. TW

      Like, and sometimes people tear their cartilage as well.

    15. SO

      Yeah.

    16. TW

      Did you get an MRI or...

    17. SO

      I did get an MRI.

    18. TW

      Yeah.

    19. SO

      I didn't tear anything that I remember. I think it was just a muscle strain, but like we gave it a couple weeks to say, "All right. Let's just see if it'll heal in a couple weeks and then try to grapple again." Tried to grapple in just the littlest kind of together movement, couldn't do it, which sucked 'cause that was the fight I had the most mental demons going in 'cause I was like, "I'd like to be able to grapple."

    20. TW

      Mm.

    21. SO

      You know? I would like to be able to fucking grapple, going in. Because even for all fight week, I told the whole team, I'm like, "I don't want to do anything to where I feel this." 'Cause I'm... In my mind it's fixed. I'm, I'm good. I haven't hurt it in a couple weeks. I convinced myself that it was 100% fine.

    22. TW

      Mm.

    23. SO

      And, uh, so all fight week we didn't even clinch once. No grap- no, zero exchanges. Um, yeah.

    24. TW

      That's like a Michael Jordan type athlete though, just to have that kind of pressure going against this guy who's the best on the fucking planet and just being in the moment and not worrying about that. I mean, fucking impressive.

    25. SO

      (sighs)

    26. JR

      Yeah. Well, the result was amazing. That was probably one of the prettiest right hands I've ever seen in my life.

    27. SO

      Floating back too. (laughs)

    28. JR

      I mean, it's literally like Muhammad Ali, Sonny Liston. You know?

    29. TW

      (sighs)

    30. SO

      Yeah. That was-

  11. 46:06 – 52:33

    Highs, crashes, and mental maintenance: comedy suicides, post-win emptiness, cold plunges, PEMF

    1. SO

      Oh yeah.

    2. TW

      I didn't, didn't see that. Is comedians in, in depression? Is that a pretty common thing? Like-

    3. JR

      Oh yeah, for sure. I didn't know this guy, but, uh, everybody at that club last night was so sad.

    4. TW

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      You know, a lot of, uh, he was my friend David Lucas's opening act.

    6. TW

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      And, um, a lot of people knew him. It was a bummer. I did not know him every day. He took his own life, apparently.

    8. SO

      Yeah. That's crazy.

    9. JR

      Yeah, it's like there's a lot of the re- reasons why people want to do comedy is because they want, they, they w- want a moment in their life where it's fun. And if they can make other people laugh, so at least for that moment it would be fun. Like, there's this guy who's one of the greatest of all time, Richard Jeni. He took his own life. He shot himself in the bathtub. (sighs) And then, uh, he didn't die and they had to take him to the hospital.

    10. SO

      No.

    11. JR

      So he died at the hospital, yeah.

    12. TW

      Oh.

    13. JR

      Um, but he was one of the best comedians ever and one, just hated life. He was so depressed. Just, it, he, he, just the fact that everybody... All the comics worshiped him. Like when he was in the room, everybody would come in and watch Jeni. Like, "Oh my God, Jeni's on stage. Let's go watch Jeni." He was so good. He did this one club, uh, in Long Island called East Side Comedy Club. And, uh, this guy Peter, who was the host, we were all sitting around after the show and, uh, Peter was depressed. I said, "Why are you depressed?" And he goes... He did four different hours. He goes, he did two different hours on Friday and two different hours on Saturday.

    14. SO

      Jesus.

    15. JR

      And just destroyed. And you would think a guy who's that good, at the top of his game, just killing it. Like the guy's on the top of the world. He's probably so happy. Everybody loves him. Meanwhile, guy kills himself.

    16. TW

      Hmm.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. SO

      I was watching this Deion Sanders little documentary on YouTube and he tried to kill himself after they winning the Super Bowl.

    19. JR

      Whoa.

    20. SO

      Yeah. Like tried to drive his car off a cliff, like-

    21. JR

      Oh my God.

    22. SO

      Yeah. That was cra-... I didn't really know much about Deion Sanders primetime, but that dude fucking played in the MLB and NFL at the same time in the same seasons. He was signing like one-off contracts to go play with, with the fucking teams.

    23. JR

      Insane.

    24. SO

      Then he'd fly in a helicopter to the football game.

    25. JR

      Insane.

    26. SO

      That was a fucking ... I didn't realize how good of an athlete he was.

    27. JR

      Imagine a guy like that taking up MMA, right?

    28. SO

      Oh, yeah.

    29. JR

      You know, 'cause there's like calibers of athletes that I think just automatically go into the NFL-

    30. SO

      Mm-hmm.

  12. 52:33 – 1:07:00

    Energy, aging, and career arc: discipline, retirement signals, and why Tim/Sean chemistry matters

    1. JR

      But one of the things that I always tell comics is I ... 'Cause a lot of comics, they, they eat poorly, they don't exercise, they're lazy. I always tell them like, "You have more energy. Like your body is your vehicle for carrying you through life." I ... It's not a vanity thing. Like it could be a vanity thing, but don't think about it that way. Think about it like you can actually soup up your race car. That you're in-

    2. TW

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      ... you're, you're ... You want something that can do things that other ones can't. Like have the energy to do two shows easy.

    4. SO

      (sighs) Yeah.

    5. JR

      Has no problem with ... I did four shows last night.

    6. SO

      Jesus.

    7. JR

      So I did two shows in the little room, so I did-

    8. SO

      Damn.

    9. JR

      ... two, two of those improvised shows, the bottom of the barrel shows, and then I did two hours in the big room.

    10. SO

      Damn. That's fucking sweet. Uh, I could see how just being in that green room and like crave that every night, just-

    11. TW

      Mm-hmm.

    12. SO

      ... or every ... At least a couple times a week, just fuck, going in there, bullshitting with the guys, watching some comedy. That was so fun to be around.

    13. TW

      While I was telling Sugar, I'm like ... 'Cause how old are you now?

    14. JR

      56.

    15. TW

      56, like, "Bro, that's gonna be us when we're 56, healthy, re- revving up-"

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. TW

      "... ready to fucking go." (laughs)

    18. SO

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      I'm the canary in the coal mine, kids.

    20. TW

      Take a pic.

    21. SO

      I'm hoping, I'm hoping that when I'm 56 I'm fucking revving up like that.

    22. JR

      Well, when you're 56 you won't be fighting.

    23. SO

      Nope.

    24. JR

      So when you're 56 you can take testosterone and peptides-

    25. SO

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      ... and that's the big thing.

    27. SO

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      The big thing is that ... People don't wanna do that 'cause they think it's cheating. Look, listen, you don't have much time.

    29. SO

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      This life goes by really quick.

Episode duration: 3:30:31

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