JRE MMA Show #149 with Dan Henderson

Dan Henderson 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Hello, Dan Henderson. What the fuck's happening?

Dan Henderson 0:15 (laughs) How's it going, Joe?

Joe Rogan 0:16 Good to see you, bro.

Dan Henderson 0:16 Good to see you too.

Joe Rogan 0:17 Man, um, what have you been up to? Other than coaching? You're coaching a lot, I know that.

Dan Henderson 0:22 Uh...

Joe Rogan 0:22 I watch a lot of your, uh, videos.

Dan Henderson 0:23 Yeah, I mean, I'm coaching a little bit. Got, got some decent up-and-comers, but other than that, I've been, I've been working on (laughs) a project where my gy- I own the building my gym's in, and I'm putting a brewery distillery restaurant in.

Joe Rogan 0:36 Oh, nice.

Dan Henderson 0:36 Part of it'll overlook there. So we're in mid-construction right now, so it's been, it's been... We started construction, it got put on hold when COVID happened-

Joe Rogan 0:46 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 0:46 ... so it's been a, almost the biggest fight of my life trying to get this thing done. But yeah, it's finally, finally gonna be done, hopefully end of the year.

Joe Rogan 0:54 You're down in, uh, you still down, like, Temecula area?

Dan Henderson 0:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 0:58 In Temecula, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:59 That's a good area.

Dan Henderson 1:00 No, I love it there, man.

Joe Rogan 1:01 Last time I saw you was at that casino. That's a fun little casino down there.

Dan Henderson 1:04 Oh, at Pechanga?

Joe Rogan 1:05 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:05 Yeah. Yeah, no, I love it out there. If, I, I was born and raised in California, so it, you know, it'd be hard to leave. I got so many roots there, but, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:16 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:16 ... living in Temecula, I feel like I'm in one of the best spots in California. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20 Yeah, it's one of the be- it's most sane.

Dan Henderson 1:23 Yeah, no, I agree.

Joe Rogan 1:24 It's pretty sane.

Dan Henderson 1:25 Yeah, pretty-

Joe Rogan 1:26 Lot of ranches, and it's like normal people.

Dan Henderson 1:28 Not a lot of craziness going on.

Joe Rogan 1:30 Yeah. You're getting closer to Los Angeles, it just gets polluted.

Dan Henderson 1:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34 Just toxic fucking thinking and-

Dan Henderson 1:35 Where did you live up there?

Joe Rogan 1:37 I lived in Bell Canyon, which was like, uh, a half hour outside of LA, which was nice. Like I had land, and a lot of coyotes, and-

Dan Henderson 1:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:45 ... a lot of owls and hawks and shit, and mountain lions. It's good. It's good.

Dan Henderson 1:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51 It's, it was good, like, juxtaposition. It was a nice relief from Hollywood. I get there and it's quiet.

Dan Henderson 1:56 And how is the little community, though? The area?

Joe Rogan 1:58 It's fine.

Dan Henderson 1:59 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:59 Yeah, it's fine. It's just...

Dan Henderson 2:01 Like it here better, though?

Joe Rogan 2:02 Oh, yeah.

Dan Henderson 2:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:04 Way better. I'm never leaving.

Dan Henderson 2:07 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 2:08 No, this place is, this place is the best.

Dan Henderson 2:10 Yeah, I don't know if I could-

Joe Rogan 2:11 It's just the freedom that you get in Texas. It's just so much... You just get so accustomed to it.

Dan Henderson 2:16 Yeah. No, I, I, I couldn't imagine. But yeah, I, I don't know if I could deal with the humidity of out here.

Joe Rogan 2:25 You get used to it. I don't, I don't know, I've always liked the heat. It doesn't bother me at all, you know? I just, uh, 'cause I do the sauna every day anyway, so I think my body's, like, acclimated to heat.

Dan Henderson 2:34 So during the summertime, you don't really have to get in the sauna? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:37 I get in the sauna too. I do it every day.

Dan Henderson 2:40 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:40 But it, during the day, like, uh, getting ready for elk season, I was out in my yard every day for three hours in 105 degrees. I'd just bring a 64-ounce Hydro Flask filled with electrolytes and water and just drink that. And I would come inside and it was literally like I went swimming. I would just be drenched. My jeans, my shirt, everything drenched.

Dan Henderson 2:58 What are you doing out in the yard?

Joe Rogan 3:00 Just shooting.

Dan Henderson 3:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 3:01 Just shooting, you know, getting ready, so I, I had to practice.

Dan Henderson 3:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:05 So it's like, there's only one place I can practice is 100 yards.

Dan Henderson 3:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:09 It's in the yard, so I was out there practicing every day.

Dan Henderson 3:13 Have you taken a 100-yard shot?

Joe Rogan 3:15 No way. Never. Never.

Dan Henderson 3:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:17 I would never do that. Never.

Dan Henderson 3:19 But you practiced it?

Joe Rogan 3:19 But when you take a 100-yard shot every day, 50-yard shots look like a chip shot.

Dan Henderson 3:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:24 Like, I shot my elk last week at 50, and it was easy. It was perfect. It was perfect distance, you know?

Dan Henderson 3:29 That's awesome, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:30 I knew I was gonna hit it.

Dan Henderson 3:31 Yeah, I've gotten a couple at 50. One, I think one at 60 was my long- longest shot, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:36 My friend Cam shot one at two yards.

Dan Henderson 3:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:39 He shot at two yards, a frontal shot at two yards, he made it, just made a video of it. It's fucking crazy. This elk hadn't, he was on his knees and the elk was coming up the trail, and the elk had no idea he was there. He was just standing there at full draw, and then the elk looked down and saw him there, and whup, and, and it caught him right in the chest, went right through his heart.

Dan Henderson 3:57 Wow.

Joe Rogan 3:59 Yeah, thi- this is the video.

Dan Henderson 4:00 Oh.

Narrator 4:02 That one? Okay.

Joe Rogan 4:02 This is a, a real clip of it. So he's moving up this trail, and this is the elk. We- well, you'll, you'll see the sho- well, it's very hard to see. You'll see it on his YouTube channel, it's much better, but that's how close he was. He was two yards from it.

Dan Henderson 4:14 (laughs) That's funny. Yeah, my first elk I ever shot was with a bow, but it was at, like, 10 feet. So-

Joe Rogan 4:20 Whoa. (laughs)

Dan Henderson 4:21 ... three and a half yard... But yeah, it was in a burn area, so there was a lot of, like, new growth going up.

Joe Rogan 4:26 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 4:27 And there was a little quaky tree, and I saw an elk a couple hundred yards away, I called him, and he started coming over. And then, you know, I called again kind of in a different direction so he'd kind of go into a nice little spot I could shoot him. And I'm kind of jittery, t- getting my, my trigger on the, the loop, you know, my release on there.

Joe Rogan 4:45 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 4:45 And by the time I look up, he's, like, right on the other side of this quaky, 10 feet away from me, you know, just kind of looking to see where the cow is. And just same thing, plugged it right, right through the middle.

Joe Rogan 4:58 I've never taken that shot. I had an opportunity to do that shot last week at 45 yards, but there was some shit in the way of him, and I don't like that shot.

Dan Henderson 5:05 Yeah, not at, not at that distance.

Joe Rogan 5:07 No. Well, that shot's like a-

Dan Henderson 5:08 I passed right-

Joe Rogan 5:09 ... 20 and under.

Dan Henderson 5:09 I passed right through him.

Joe Rogan 5:11 Oh yeah, that's-

Dan Henderson 5:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:11 ... it's a devastating shot.

Dan Henderson 5:13 Just right at an angle.

Joe Rogan 5:14 Yeah. It's devastating if you hit it. I mean, there's so many videos online of guys hitting that, and it's, you know, they just spray blood and die instantly.

Dan Henderson 5:22 Yeah, yeah. He went, he was... He managed to ran- run 20 yards down, down the hill and didn't make it any farther.

Joe Rogan 5:30 It's a great, uh, it's a great discipline for fighters. A lot of guys who, they leave fighting, and the excitement and the intensity of fighting, nothing can match that. And so the only thing that comes close for a lot of them is bow hunting.

Dan Henderson 5:44 Yeah. No, I can see that, for sure. I mean, I've done it. I was doing it when I was fighting too, but yeah, I mean, I've been... I grew up hunting, but never really started shooting animals till I'm getting a little bit older and getting a little better at it, but...

Joe Rogan 6:00 ... it's hard.

Dan Henderson 6:01 I need to get out and bow hunt a little more. That's my favorite hunt is a bow, archery elk hunt.

Joe Rogan 6:06 Yeah. No, it's the most exciting. It's also the most crazy. There's screaming-

Dan Henderson 6:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:10 ... and there's so much chaos, and you gotta duck those cows and sneak around. It's, it's fun. I love it. It's, to me, it's like the best, it's the best way to get meat, first of all, and then it's also the best way for me to decompress.

Dan Henderson 6:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:24 You know?

Dan Henderson 6:25 And it's really good meat.

Joe Rogan 6:26 Oh, it's the best meat, the best meat.

Dan Henderson 6:28 No, I get, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:29 I ate h- the heart last night.

Dan Henderson 6:30 Oh. I don't know if I could do that.

Joe Rogan 6:32 You don't eat the heart?

Dan Henderson 6:33 No.

Joe Rogan 6:34 It's, it's good, man. You just, just fry it up. I just put salt, pepper, and garlic on it-

Dan Henderson 6:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:39 ... and butter, fry it in butter.

Dan Henderson 6:40 I feel like it would have a different texture.

Joe Rogan 6:42 It does. It's ch- it's chewy, but it's good. It tastes good.

Dan Henderson 6:46 I'm, I'm not a fan of liver either.

Joe Rogan 6:48 I eat the liver too. Yeah (laughs) .

Dan Henderson 6:50 (laughs) I can't do it.

Joe Rogan 6:52 It's good for you. I mean, it's the best meat for you.

Dan Henderson 6:54 Well, it might be good for you, but...

Joe Rogan 6:56 It's rough.

Dan Henderson 6:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:58 I don't eat too much. I eat a couple ounces in the morning with eggs, you know? I just slice it up and vacuum seal it and freeze it and then thaw it out for, for breakfast. It's a good breakfast. Gets you going.

Dan Henderson 7:11 Yeah. No, I'm not-

Joe Rogan 7:12 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 7:12 ... I'm not into that. Yeah. You're more of a man than me, for sure.

Joe Rogan 7:16 No (laughs) . That's definitely not true (laughs) .

Dan Henderson 7:19 (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 7:20 So, uh, how have you adapted to retirement?

Dan Henderson 7:23 Uh, I feel like I'm pretty we- pretty good. It's not like I have the itch to get in there and do it again.

Joe Rogan 7:29 Well, that's-

Dan Henderson 7:29 Occasionally, when I see some of these guys and, and with, with a little bit different style, I, I feel like, "Oh, it'd have been fun to match up or see how I do against them." You know, I'd do it in, in practice, not-

Joe Rogan 7:40 Right.

Dan Henderson 7:41 ... with no cameras. That'd be f- you know, just to see-

Joe Rogan 7:44 Right.

Dan Henderson 7:44 ... how it would be, not, not for any type of title or money. It'd be fun, but...

Joe Rogan 7:49 For a lot of guys, it's so hard to not, just re- resist that urge to come back.

Dan Henderson 7:55 Yeah. I mean, I, I started wrestling, I was five years old, and two Olympic teams and then, and then I started fighting for, and I fought for 20 years, so I feel like I did enough.

Joe Rogan 8:09 You definitely did enough. You did (laughs) you did a lot.

Dan Henderson 8:12 So I... So, a lot more than most-

Joe Rogan 8:14 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 8:15 ... over, over that span of time than, than most guys compete at, at that level, and, you know, I felt like, uh, I was ready when I retired. I was... You know, honestly, my body felt okay. It w- I hadn't really had too many big injuries at all for, for a while, and I just was sle- spending too much time on the couch after practice, just tired, too tired to do anything else during training camp.

Joe Rogan 8:44 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 8:44 So family life was kinda... You know, with w- the kids and not spending time doing stuff like that was taking a toll, so I was like, "You know, it's time."

Joe Rogan 8:55 Yeah. Well, you did it at the right time. It's like... And, and it's good that you didn't come back. It's just like, so many guys come back and y- you kind of wish they didn't and-

Dan Henderson 9:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:04 ... you know?

Dan Henderson 9:05 Well, I wouldn't be one of those guys. If I did come back, I would, it would be, I would be... I s- I still feel really good, so.

Joe Rogan 9:13 When-

Dan Henderson 9:13 But I, I don't plan on it. Uh, but nobody's offered me enough money to get off the couch anyway, so.

Joe Rogan 9:17 Well, what I'm, what I'm interested in seeing is, like, there's so many different options now with guys, you know? Like, e- bare knuckle boxing-

Dan Henderson 9:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:25 ... is nice. You know, a lot of guys going into that, and I felt like that would be a thing that you would acce- excel at.

Dan Henderson 9:30 Yeah. I, I hadn't really watched it until I watched Chad Mendes' fight last year.

Joe Rogan 9:34 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 9:34 And I'm like, "Man, I like those rules." That'd be-

Joe Rogan 9:37 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 9:37 ... right up my alley. Not... Like, I don't think I'd, would, I would do okay at boxing, straight boxing, but not that great. I, I would do a lot better at the bare knuckle rules with the dirty boxing. You can-

Joe Rogan 9:50 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 9:51 ... hold onto the guy and...

Joe Rogan 9:52 Yeah, it's very different. It's, uh... I really like what Jorge Masvidal's doing, where he's got bare knuckle MMA.

Dan Henderson 9:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:59 It just shows you the, it's like, when you don't have... First of all, grappling is way better, 'cause you don't have the padding of your gloves that prevents certain chokes.

Dan Henderson 10:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:08 It just, like, it gets in the way of stuff. But also, it's more realistic, you know? Like, your, your hands, like, I think, we, we talked about this before, though. I think it was Tank Abbott was the first guy who figured out that if you wear MMA gloves, you actually could punch harder, 'cause you, you're not worried as much about breaking your hands.

Dan Henderson 10:25 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:25 Yeah. Wrap your hands up, put gloves on, and it's not a disadvantage. It's kind of an advantage.

Dan Henderson 10:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:31 Yeah. It doesn't necessarily protect your opponent that much. It really protects-

Dan Henderson 10:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:35 ... your hands.

Dan Henderson 10:35 Right. No, I agree.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 10:37 For sure.

Joe Rogan 10:38 But just seems to me weird that, you know, your elbows are unprotected, your knees are unprotected, your shins are unprotected. You can go bone to bone with that but not with your hands. Just seems like it doesn't really make sense.

Dan Henderson 10:50 Right. Uh, I... And when they, when they first started UFC, there was no gloves, and, and that's-

Joe Rogan 10:57 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 10:57 ... how it was.

Joe Rogan 10:58 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 10:58 And, and when they started wearing gloves and that was my thoughts exactly, was, you know, more to protect your hands than-

Joe Rogan 11:05 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 11:06 ... you know? I guess without, without your hands, uh, with... If your hands break or fall apart, then the fight kinda doesn't h- happen as well.

Joe Rogan 11:15 Yeah. It's just, it's interesting to see how effective it is too. Like, Mike Perry's done an amazing job transitioning into bare knuckle.

Dan Henderson 11:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:23 Like, he's, he's probably the most successful at it, definitely the most successful at it from MMA guys.

Dan Henderson 11:28 Right. Yeah. I saw him, uh, with, with Luke Rockhold.

Joe Rogan 11:30 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 11:31 Knocked some teeth silly.

Joe Rogan 11:33 Yeah. I mean, those, when it's just raw knuckle on your face, like a regular mouthpiece, it's not quite good enough.

Dan Henderson 11:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:40 And, and it's interesting that guys are still using the upper mouthpiece only with bare knuckle.

Dan Henderson 11:44 Mm.

Joe Rogan 11:44 I would think you might wanna use a upper and a lower.

Dan Henderson 11:47 Yeah. I always just did the upper.

Joe Rogan 11:49 Yeah. M- most people do. I mean, very few people fought in MMA with an upper and a lower, right? I don't think anybody does.

Dan Henderson 11:55 Not that I know of, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:56 Not that I know of. In boxing, you used to see it. You used to see guys who had, like, a full mouthpiece, but...It just gets in the way of your breathing too much, I think.

Dan Henderson 12:05 Yeah, that's what, that's what I have a problem with.

Joe Rogan 12:06 Yeah. D- Do you breathe out of your nose? Can your nose work?

Dan Henderson 12:09 My nose w- works fine. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:11 But a lot of guys, you know, but-

Dan Henderson 12:12 No, uh, yeah. I started snoring, and, uh, so I went and got a sleep test. But they, they went in and cleaned it up? Put a ... No, they put a scope up there to see how my nose was, 'cause they, you know, just like you, they thought my nose couldn't breathe.

Joe Rogan 12:28 Right.

Dan Henderson 12:29 And they said it was completely clear, no, no ... It was all good.

Joe Rogan 12:32 That's amazing.

Dan Henderson 12:33 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:34 It's amazing that you haven't had too many big injuries. I know y- y- you broke your hand at least once, right?

Dan Henderson 12:40 Uh, against Vanderweight.

Joe Rogan 12:40 Was that the Vanderweigh fight? Yeah.

Dan Henderson 12:43 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:43 That was a wild one.

Dan Henderson 12:43 That was, uh, that was ... In the first round, I broke it.

Joe Rogan 12:48 Wow.

Dan Henderson 12:48 'Cause I, I just remember going back to the corner, shaking my hand, saying, "My hand hurts." And they started talking about something else, and what I needed to do, and then I never thought about it again the rest of the fight.

Joe Rogan 12:59 Wow.

Dan Henderson 12:59 And I threw ... I was throwing it.

Joe Rogan 13:01 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 13:02 So, I, I, you know, just the adrenaline, or whatever I had in me, just didn't even feel it again.

Joe Rogan 13:09 You've got some wild highlight reel knockouts. S- some wild fights. I remember the first fight I ever saw of yours, I think it was in 1997. I think you just posted it on Instagram, or someone did. It was, like, me, uh, interviewing you-

Dan Henderson 13:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:23 ... backstage-

Dan Henderson 13:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:25 ... like, right after the fight. '97.

Dan Henderson 13:27 Was that ... That was in '97?

Joe Rogan 13:29 I think so. I'm pretty sure. That was when I first started wo- working for the UFC. I think that was, uh ... That was a tournament back then. Yeah, what year is that? Does it say?

Dan Henderson 13:38 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 13:39 UFC 17.

Dan Henderson 13:40 It was '17, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:42 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 13:42 That was, uh, yeah, 1997.

Joe Rogan 13:45 Wow.

Dan Henderson 13:45 No, '98.

Joe Rogan 13:46 '98.

Dan Henderson 13:48 I fought in '97 in Brazil in a tournament, and ... Just to make some money to keep wrestling, and then I did the UFC a year later.

Joe Rogan 13:55 Who talked you into doing MMA in the first place?

Dan Henderson 13:58 Well, y- you know, Randy and I were training partners forever for wrestling, and, uh, you know, we'd always watched it on TV and said, you know, "That'd be fun," but I don't know if I'd wanna get in there with some of those three or 400-pounders, you know, and-

Joe Rogan 14:13 Right.

Dan Henderson 14:13 ... those big fuckers, and-

Joe Rogan 14:14 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 14:16 ... Randy called me up one day and said, "Hey, I'm doing this tournament down in Brazil at heavyweight," and they got a lightweight tournament. And this is, like, two weeks before. And, uh, "You wanna go do the lightweight tournament?" Which is, like ... It was, like, 176 or something. And I was like, "Well, okay." And I was wrestling 180 and a half at the time, so it was an extra five pounds, but ... You know, I, I, I went down and did it. But in the meantime, I guess he ... Randy had already put an application into the UFC, and they d- they said no, and, uh ... Which I didn't know he had put in the application, but then he got a call, somebody got hurt, so he didn't go down to Brazil. He went to the UFC instead. It was, like, within a wee- a week before or week after that fight. No, not that one, but the one I ... down in Brazil, which was ... I think it was UFC 13, was his first one.

Joe Rogan 15:08 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 15:10 And, uh, he-

Joe Rogan 15:11 Yeah, I was there for that too.

Dan Henderson 15:12 And he had a, a tournament against the, like, two big heavyweights.

Joe Rogan 15:16 Yeah. He fought some big, muscular guy the first fight-

Dan Henderson 15:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:19 ... who had a lot of hype on him. I don't remember who he fought in his second fight. I don't remember. But that was, like, when we first started seeing elite wrestlers.

Dan Henderson 15:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:30 First started seeing a guy ... Royce Alger, you know, Coleman, all those o- o-

Dan Henderson 15:34 Didn't ... Did Kenny Monday fight in the UFC, or did he-

Joe Rogan 15:38 Yes.

Dan Henderson 15:39 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 15:39 Yeah. Kenny Mon ... No. Was it Kevin Jackson?

Dan Henderson 15:42 Kevin Jackson.

Joe Rogan 15:42 Kenny, Kenny Monday fought, uh ... He fought submission. I remember Matt Hume submitted him.

Dan Henderson 15:50 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:50 Remember that?

Dan Henderson 15:51 That was ... I, I think I s- I wrestled with, uh, Frank Shamrock there.

Joe Rogan 15:54 That's right. Yeah.

Dan Henderson 15:55 And I had, I had a screwed up ankle from I'd rolled it, uh, right before the world championships a month before that, and ... So I went in there wearing wrestling shoes so I could hide the tape that I had on my ankle. (laughs) Frank's pretty good at ankle locks, so ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:11 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 16:11 That was me not knowing anything about it.

Joe Rogan 16:13 Well, Frank was really one of the first guys that had, like, a full overall MMA game.

Dan Henderson 16:19 Right. No, I agree.

Joe Rogan 16:20 He really did. He had a ... I mean, when he w- submitted Kevin Jackson, like, very impressive. He could f- submit you off his back, he had crazy cardio, full range of skills. He could strike, he could grapple, he could do everything.

Dan Henderson 16:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:33 And the cardio. He was, like, one of the first guys that showed, like, cardio could be a weapon. Like, the Tito Ortiz fight. You know? His cardio was a real weapon.

Dan Henderson 16:41 Oh, for sure. And Tito's usually in pretty good shape too.

Joe Rogan 16:43 Yeah. Well, Tito learned from that fight. I mean, I think that was a, a big wake-up call for him-

Dan Henderson 16:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:49 ... that ... How much cardio plays a factor.

Dan Henderson 16:51 Yeah. And it's a ... Yeah. And it's a different pace from wrestling, so that was, that was something we had to learn. You couldn't ... Wrestling is a little bit higher paced, a little more action.

Joe Rogan 17:02 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 17:03 Shorter, shorter durations, though.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Right.

Dan Henderson 17:05 S- so I had to learn to kinda pace myself a little bit when I first started doing this.

Joe Rogan 17:10 When you first started doing this, what were the distance of the rounds? Was it still f- Was it five-minute rounds?

Dan Henderson 17:15 No. Um ... The one down in Brazil, I think, was, uh, a 15-minute straight round, and, and then, and then maybe a 15-minute overtime if there's no submission. Then they go to judges.

Joe Rogan 17:31 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 17:33 Um, but I, I mean, I didn't go ... I think I went, like, seven or eight minutes the first fight with, uh ... Crazio was my first fight. He was, like, a black belt, which I didn't know a whole lot about. After watching that fight again nowadays, it just ... You know, I see so many mistakes that I did. And I didn't know how to punch, either. I was ju- ... I never sparred before.

Joe Rogan 17:56 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 17:56 I never sparred before I fought in the UFC on that, that sh- ... win you just put up.

Joe Rogan 18:00 Never?

Dan Henderson 18:01 Never. And then-

Joe Rogan 18:02 Really? Just wrestling?

Dan Henderson 18:02 ... I started sparring after that. Well, no, I hit the bag, and hit focus mitts, and, you know ...It was just kinda awkward to punch your friend in the face, you know?

Joe Rogan 18:11 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 18:12 And then, but after that, it was like, me and Randy were like, "Fuck, we need to start sparring."

Joe Rogan 18:16 That is so crazy. You guys didn't spar at all-

Dan Henderson 18:19 No.

Joe Rogan 18:19 ... before the first year? That is wild. That's wild. So, d- And, you know, that, I was off balance a lot, you know, getting hit, falling down because, uh, you know, you just, it, when you don't spar, uh, you're just not, you don't have the same balance or-

Dan Henderson 18:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:35 It's just a lot better to practice the way you fight. That's so crazy that you fought the fir-... So did you have a striking coach?

Dan Henderson 18:43 Yeah. We had boxing guys and kinda kickboxing guys that would come in, but there was no coaches back then, MMA coaches-

Joe Rogan 18:50 Right.

Dan Henderson 18:50 ... I should say. But, and then we just started really figuring out what, what works really well with our styles, and, you know, taking down, offense, and, uh, you know, setting up strikes, and...

Joe Rogan 19:04 I think the first real MMA coach was probably Miletich, probably Pat. Uh, the first guy that-

Dan Henderson 19:10 Uh, Pat and Matt Hume.

Joe Rogan 19:11 Yeah, Matt Hume. Good-

Dan Henderson 19:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:12 ... call. Yeah. Those were the first guys that were really putting it all together.

Dan Henderson 19:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:17 You know? I mean, and, and even back then, guys kinda didn't know exactly what the right... I mean, now, when you go to ATT or one of these big gyms, I mean, they have protocols. Like, they, they know exactly what they're doing.

Dan Henderson 19:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:29 They have training schedules all mapped out in advance, hard days, easier days, technical days. I mean, they really have it down to a science.

Dan Henderson 19:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:37 Monitoring recovery. It's kinda crazy when you think about your first fight, no sparring at all. (laughs)

Dan Henderson 19:45 (laughs) Well, yeah, my first four fights, 'cause it was two fights each-

Joe Rogan 19:48 Wow.

Dan Henderson 19:48 ... each one of those events, so...

Joe Rogan 19:50 And then in the UFC, when we... You fought Carlos Newton, right?

Dan Henderson 19:54 Yeah, Carlos Newton and, uh, no, Alan Galez-

Joe Rogan 19:57 Alan Galez-

Dan Henderson 19:57 ... and then Carlos.

Joe Rogan 19:58 ... and then Carlos Newton.

Dan Henderson 19:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Two very elite submission guys.

Dan Henderson 20:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:02 Yeah, Carlos Newton, people forgot about him. That fucking guy was good.

Dan Henderson 20:05 Yeah, no, he was tough.

Joe Rogan 20:06 He was good.

Dan Henderson 20:08 He was well-rounded.

Joe Rogan 20:08 Real, real rounded.

Dan Henderson 20:08 He broke my jaw.

Joe Rogan 20:10 Did he really?

Dan Henderson 20:10 Yeah. Just toward, like that last minute of the fight, he kinda hit me. It didn't, uh, daze me or anything, but... And then, you know, shortly after, a few, five seconds later, I took him down, and when I took him down, my chin kinda pushed against his chest, and it kinda shifted, and I'm like, "Ooh." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:29 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 20:29 That doesn't, that doesn't feel right.

Joe Rogan 20:32 When did you realize that you had that kinda crazy power? 'Cause it's kind of funny that a guy who started out grappling and didn't do any sparring at all for his first four-

Dan Henderson 20:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:46 ... MMA fights was one of the most dangerous strikers in the sport.

Dan Henderson 20:50 Um, I don't know. I mean, I grew up playing baseball and threw really hard.

Joe Rogan 20:54 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 20:55 And then, you know, when I, when I started, uh, not sparring, started MMA, you know, I'd hit the pad or, you know, focus mitts, and, and everybody'd say, "Oh, shit, you hit hard."

Joe Rogan 21:07 It's just natural.

Dan Henderson 21:08 But yeah, so I guess it just took me a while to figure out where to put it.

Joe Rogan 21:13 There's a few guys... I think Gomi, I think Takanori Gomi started out as a pitcher.

Dan Henderson 21:17 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:17 Which makes sense. You see the way that guy throws punches, he just fucking whips his whole body into it-

Dan Henderson 21:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:22 ... like a fastball.

Dan Henderson 21:22 Put a lot of weight into it.

Joe Rogan 21:23 Yeah. It's, uh, that's a v-... actually probably a great thing to start out with, just to learn how to put a lot of force behind your arm.

Dan Henderson 21:31 Driving with the legs-

Joe Rogan 21:33 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 21:33 ... and everything.

Joe Rogan 21:33 Yeah, it completely makes sense, if you think about it.

Dan Henderson 21:36 With your hips. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:36 'Cause you think about how many guys practice with medicine balls now, you know? Where they whip medicine balls against the wall to advance your punching power. I mean-

Dan Henderson 21:44 Yeah. It's hard to teach. I mean-

Joe Rogan 21:46 Yeah, you either have power or you don't have power.

Dan Henderson 21:48 Yeah, I mean, you can definitely get better at, at mechanics to make it harder.

Joe Rogan 21:54 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 21:54 But not, not like what a lot of guys have naturally.

Joe Rogan 21:58 Right. Isn't it wild? That's a crazy thing, because you can't really tell sometimes by looking at guys. Like, there's guys that just look-

Dan Henderson 22:06 Like me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:06 Well, you look pretty strong. But there's some guys, like, uh, they just don't look like they carry that much power, but they have crazy power.

Dan Henderson 22:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:15 It's, it's, uh, it's weird. Power is a weird thing.

Dan Henderson 22:18 No, I agree. It's-

Joe Rogan 22:19 Like, you, you either have nuclear power or you don't.

Dan Henderson 22:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:21 You know?

Dan Henderson 22:22 But, and again, I think a lot of that is, it is mechanics, but a lot of that, most mechanics come naturally.

Joe Rogan 22:28 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 22:28 Like some of those pitchers that, that can throw the ball so goddamn fast.

Joe Rogan 22:34 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 22:35 And some of them are skinny as fuck.

Joe Rogan 22:37 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 22:37 You don't know how the hell that, you know, they just whip that thing around.

Joe Rogan 22:41 And then there's also your frame. You know, like some guys just have bigger shoulders, bigger hands.

Dan Henderson 22:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:46 They're just naturally designed to hit things more.

Dan Henderson 22:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:49 More leverage points. Yeah, it's, uh, it's just, when you think back, like as a pioneer in the sport, I mean, it's pretty wild what you guys did. Pretty wild that you entered into this sport, that at the time it was just kind of a way to make some money.

Dan Henderson 23:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:04 It wasn't, there was, uh, uh, I mean, when I started, uh, doing the post-fight interviews, it was banned from cable. The only way you could get it was DirecTV. I actually got DirecTV specifically.

Dan Henderson 23:14 That's when you started?

Joe Rogan 23:15 Yeah, in '97.

Dan Henderson 23:16 'Cause it was, uh, I feel like it was right after... It wasn't banned from cable yet, until after I fought-

Joe Rogan 23:27 I think it was banned from-

Dan Henderson 23:28 ... on UFC 17.

Joe Rogan 23:28 ... one of those, one of those years it was banned from cable.

Dan Henderson 23:31 And then-

Joe Rogan 23:31 And then there was a lot of shenanigans with like Budweiser and you remember, like, McCain?

Dan Henderson 23:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:37 McCain was trying to keep it out.

Dan Henderson 23:39 Yeah, for sure. He was, he was-

Joe Rogan 23:39 They called it human cockfighting.

Dan Henderson 23:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:42 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 23:43 Yeah, I wasn't a fan of his.

Joe Rogan 23:44 No. Most MMA guys weren't, because it was so ridiculous. There was no deaths in MMA to speak of.

Dan Henderson 23:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:51 Not like in MMA, uh, in boxing, which we have, uh, you know, a few every year.

Dan Henderson 23:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:55 And they were trying to say it was more dangerous. I'm like, "I don't think it is." I don't think it is. I mean, they're all, everything's dan-... Every combat sport's dangerous.

Dan Henderson 24:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:04 But to say that MMA is more danger-... It's just ignorance. You just didn't understand what was happening.

Dan Henderson 24:09 No, yeah. It, uh...I, I have heard that over the years, a lot of different things.

Joe Rogan 24:15 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 24:16 And I got nothing bad to say about MMA. I mean, I grew up as a wrestler, and, y- you know, kind of competing's what I've done my whole life, and, and... Yeah. I, I don't feel like it affected me in a bad way at all. You know, if anything, it was positive things. It made me tougher, it made me, you know, have more drive in, with other things in my life.

Joe Rogan 24:38 Well, you're very fortunate that you came out of it on the other end, you know, healthy.

Dan Henderson 24:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:43 We, we know guys who haven't. You know?

Dan Henderson 24:44 Right. No, I know.

Joe Rogan 24:45 There's a few guys that are pretty ****** ***.

Dan Henderson 24:46 I'm not saying that it hasn't affected some guys.

Joe Rogan 24:49 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 24:50 But yeah. I- I'm just saying fortunately, I, I went through it fairly good.

Joe Rogan 24:56 No, you went through it great.

Dan Henderson 24:56 And I think a lot of it was... And Randy's the same way, just being smart in training. A lot of these guys just bang way too much in practice.

Joe Rogan 25:05 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 25:05 You know? And I'm always a advocate of sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes in training, if you're training to fight, you have to f- fight in training.

Joe Rogan 25:14 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 25:15 And-

Joe Rogan 25:16 How do you know how to manage that?

Dan Henderson 25:18 You know, I think over the years, uh, you know, y- you just... You definitely have one... We have one hard, solid spar day a week, uh, and then more technical sparring, uh, another day with the big gloves on, and then, uh, the other days are the MMA gloves. You know, we're, we're still going hard, but not with the striking part.

Joe Rogan 25:42 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 25:42 Just lighter strikes, which, you know, it's kind of hard sometimes. Some of these guys, when they go lighter, th- they're... You know, they slow down their punches instead of, you know, keeping your speed there and your timing, and s- s-

Joe Rogan 25:57 Just touching each other.

Dan Henderson 25:58 And not, and not punching as hard.

Joe Rogan 25:59 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 25:59 So-

Joe Rogan 25:59 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 26:00 ... that's kind of a hard thing to, to get used to. And it took me a while to f- to have that control. I would accidentally drop guys a lot in practice, because I didn't have control when I was, you know, kind of new to the sport.

Joe Rogan 26:13 Is there a way that you do now where you train guys to learn how to punch fast but not hit hard?

Dan Henderson 26:20 Yeah, you yell at them to... You know?

Joe Rogan 26:23 (laughs) That's it.

Dan Henderson 26:23 Y- don't do it in slow motion, you know?

Joe Rogan 26:25 Yeah. Don't do it in slow motion, but also don't connect full clip.

Dan Henderson 26:27 Don't... You don't need to hit hard, but-

Joe Rogan 26:29 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 26:29 ... don't go slow. You know?

Joe Rogan 26:31 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 26:31 You just got to remind them, because guys just do it naturally.

Joe Rogan 26:34 Well, it's kind of crazy for you as a pioneer, because you guys had to kind of figure it out.

Dan Henderson 26:39 That word makes me feel old.

Joe Rogan 26:40 A pioneer?

Dan Henderson 26:41 I hear it all the time now.

Joe Rogan 26:41 What's, what's a good word?

Dan Henderson 26:42 I don't know, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:44 But you are.

Dan Henderson 26:44 I think med is a good word, but-

Joe Rogan 26:46 You're a pioneer.

Dan Henderson 26:46 ... it just does make me feel older.

Joe Rogan 26:47 You're the definition of a pioneer.

Dan Henderson 26:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:49 I mean, UFC 17? I mean, come on, man. That's, uh, that was back in the dark days.

Dan Henderson 26:55 I feel like I should have a fucking panda-

Joe Rogan 26:58 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 26:58 ... and do some gold, uh, gold mining.

Joe Rogan 27:01 A headlamp on and shit.

Dan Henderson 27:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:02 Yeah, yeah. But I mean, there's no better word for it. But back then, you guys had to kind of learn along the way, and, uh, as the sport evolved. I've always said this, that there's not a sport that you could ever point to that has evolved more since 1993 to 2023.

Dan Henderson 27:17 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 27:18 There's nothing even close.

Dan Henderson 27:20 No.

Joe Rogan 27:20 You watch fights today like the Makhachev, uh, Volkanovski fight. I mean, everything's so high level now. Everyone's so good-

Dan Henderson 27:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:26 ... in every aspect of the game.

Dan Henderson 27:28 Yeah, that was a good... I mean, their first one was a good one. That was a... I didn't expect that.

Joe Rogan 27:33 I didn't expect it either.

Dan Henderson 27:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:34 That guy evolved. He got better. He got better, and he, he figured out a lot of the things that he was doing wrong in that fight, and then setting up-

Dan Henderson 27:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:40 ... that head kick with those body kicks.

Dan Henderson 27:41 I thought Volk was gonna get him this t- this... The... I just felt like he had more tools-

Joe Rogan 27:46 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 27:47 ... and easier adjustments.

Joe Rogan 27:49 Did you ever have to take a fight like that on 10 days notice? 'Cause that's what's crazy about it-

Dan Henderson 27:53 Uh...

Joe Rogan 27:53 ... that you took it so short notice.

Dan Henderson 27:55 Yeah, a number of times, especially in PRIDE. That was pretty common.

Joe Rogan 27:59 Yeah, PRIDE, they would just call you up, like, a week before-

Dan Henderson 28:01 I fought-

Joe Rogan 28:02 ... the fight, right?

Dan Henderson 28:02 I fought Big Nog for... He was heavyweight champ at the time on 10 days notice.

Joe Rogan 28:09 Jesus.

Dan Henderson 28:10 Um, yeah. I mean, there was, there was a couple other... There was... I fought, uh, Bustamante on probably a week's notice. And-

Joe Rogan 28:19 So when, during the PRIDE days-

Dan Henderson 28:21 Two and a half months after a knee surgery, a new ACL surgery.

Joe Rogan 28:25 No way.

Dan Henderson 28:27 They called me up, and I was hunting out in Colorado, and they tracked me down on my buddy's cell phone up in the mountains and said, "Hey, you need to..." A- and I didn't have a contract at the time, and I went and had knee surgery 'cause I tore my knee, and, and, uh, he was like, "Well, if you don't take the fight, we don't know what'll happen with any future contracts." Uh, so I'm like, "All right. I'll do it, but you're paying me win or lose, you know, the, the win bonus also." And so I, I took the fight. Luckily, I, I knocked him out real quick with that knee.

Joe Rogan 29:03 (imitates air whooshing)

Dan Henderson 29:05 So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:06 And who was that against?

Dan Henderson 29:08 Ma- uh, Bustamante.

Joe Rogan 29:09 Bustamante. I don't remember that fight. I'm trying to remember that fight.

Dan Henderson 29:12 It was after he left the, uh... After he was UFC champ and then left.

Joe Rogan 29:15 That is crazy that you fought two and a half months after ACL reconstruction.

Dan Henderson 29:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:20 That basically means your ACL was useless.

Dan Henderson 29:23 Well, I mean... Yeah. I mean, it was f- like a minute into the fight.

Joe Rogan 29:28 How... Right. What... Okay, now I'm remembering that fight. See if you can find that fight. You got it?

Dan Henderson 29:34 And I, I just-

Joe Rogan 29:34 Here it is right here.

Dan Henderson 29:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:37 Now, this was, uh, which way did they do it? Did they do a cadaver? Did they do a patella tendon graph?

Dan Henderson 29:41 I di- I did the cadaver 'cause it was a quicker recovery, they said.

Joe Rogan 29:44 Yeah, much quicker.

Dan Henderson 29:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:46 I did the cadaver on my right knee, and I had the patella tendon on my left knee. My right knee was good to go in six months, but my left knee, it took, like, a year before it felt normal. That's crazy. Which knee is it?

Dan Henderson 29:58 Uh, my l- my left. My f- my lead knee.

Joe Rogan 30:00 And so you're supporting on it. You already threw a kick, so you're trusting it. Do you just not think about it once you're in there?

Dan Henderson 30:06 No. Yeah. I, I mean, I wa- I was, I was hiking, like, ten miles a day for about four days before they tracked me down up, up in Colorado, so...

Joe Rogan 30:15 That's crazy too.

Dan Henderson 30:17 Luckily, I was, you know... But I was also drinking beer every day.

Joe Rogan 30:21 Well, that doesn't get you in shape though.

Dan Henderson 30:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:24 (laughs) The- the beer doesn't, but the, uh, the hiking 10 miles a day in the mountains, that's actually probably pretty good for your fucking endurance, you know? Oh, there it is. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. That's it. That must have been so, such a relief to take a fight like that two and a half months after surgery.

Dan Henderson 30:45 Yeah, no, it was definitely (laughs) a good moment, for sure. I was a little nervous about it 'cause he's a tough dude.

Joe Rogan 30:51 Yeah, very tough dude. Very tough dude.

Dan Henderson 30:53 The- the- the funniest thing about that, you know, the one week that I had at home training, I, uh, threw like a- a wide left hook and dislocated my thumb, and it- it popped out. You can see it, still screwed up now. But when I got there, I'm like, "Hey, can- can I get a- a shot to numb my thumb before the fight?" 'Cause they can do that there, they don't let you do it here, but-

Joe Rogan 31:19 Right.

Dan Henderson 31:20 And they're like, "Yeah, but you gotta go to the doctor. They'll X-ray you so..." You know, so I went in there and they got one of those things you can see the... They took an X-ray of me doing this, there was nothing wrong, and then I'm like, but it... They had the X-ray machine where you can see the bones move and it just so weird how the bone just comes right... The ligament is gone.

Joe Rogan 31:37 Oh.

Dan Henderson 31:37 So, I-

Joe Rogan 31:38 Is it still gone?

Dan Henderson 31:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:40 It's just torn off?

Dan Henderson 31:41 I'll never be able to... It... Yeah, I just... It... By that time, it... I just taped it for about a year and then it was good.

Joe Rogan 31:46 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 31:48 But- but my other thumb got jammed in the fight, like when I was trying to finish him, it must have got jam... And my- my whole thumb was so swollen, so I couldn't even wipe my ass, I couldn't take my pants off.

Joe Rogan 32:02 (exhales)

Dan Henderson 32:02 I had no thumbs for like a week.

Joe Rogan 32:04 So both thumbs were fucked up.

Dan Henderson 32:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:06 (laughs) God.

Dan Henderson 32:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:09 Wow.

Dan Henderson 32:09 But yeah, that was the funny part about that.

Joe Rogan 32:12 The PRIDE days were so wild because... Did you... When- when- when you were under contract with PRIDE, did you just, like when an event was coming up, just prepare like you were probably gonna fight in the event? 'Cause they didn't contact anybody until like a couple weeks out.

Dan Henderson 32:27 For their New Year's Eve shows. You know, I knew that I'd probably be fighting most- most likely on most of those shows once they started, 'cause that was their big event of the year. So, and I- I think I did two or three of those. Uh, so I... But I was ready to go. The only ones that really, that I noticed that was real short notice were those two, like, you know, against Big Nog and then-

Joe Rogan 32:53 Against Bustamante.

Dan Henderson 32:54 ... Bustamante.

Joe Rogan 32:54 Remember when Bustamante fought Tom Erickson in that one crazy event?

Dan Henderson 32:59 No.

Joe Rogan 32:59 It was one of those no time limit things where like a 30-minute round or something like that, and Tom Erickson was like 300 pounds.

Dan Henderson 33:05 Does it... Was it MMA fight or-

Joe Rogan 33:06 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 33:06 ... was it grappling? Hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:07 No, it was MMA. It was MMA fight. I think it was the same event where Oleg Taktarov fought Renzo Gracie, and Renzo Gracie KO'd him with an upkick. It was like the first time we ever saw an upkick.

Dan Henderson 33:18 Oh. Was that in the UFC?

Joe Rogan 33:19 No. No, that was... That was, uh, some-

Dan Henderson 33:24 Because it did-

Joe Rogan 33:25 ... one-off.

Dan Henderson 33:26 Some of the first few UFCs they were doing goofy stuff like, like they had super long fights, no time limits.

Joe Rogan 33:32 Right. The first UFC was no time limit, each fight. No time limit.

Dan Henderson 33:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:36 They just fought.

Dan Henderson 33:37 And PRIDE had... PRIDE had... When I first got to PRIDE, it was two 10s.

Joe Rogan 33:42 And then they'd turn into 10, and two 5s, right?

Dan Henderson 33:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:45 D- do you like that? I think the 10-minute round was a good idea.

Dan Henderson 33:48 I- I- I liked it because it... I thought it separated the men from the boys, really. I mean, about seven, eight, nine minutes in, you s- you know, guys start breaking.

Joe Rogan 33:58 Hmm. Well also, if you're a grappler and you take a guy down with four minutes into the round, and you know, you've got six minutes to go now instead of one minute.

Dan Henderson 34:08 (sniffs) Right.

Joe Rogan 34:09 You know, if you're... You see in the UFC guys struggle so hard to get a take down, then they finally get a take down, and then boom, round's over.

Dan Henderson 34:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Whereas like, I just feel like in that situation, maybe the right move is to start him in the next round exactly where you left him off.

Dan Henderson 34:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:25 You know what I mean?

Dan Henderson 34:25 Yeah. No, that would... That... I would like that.

Joe Rogan 34:27 Because you think about the advantage that it is for an elite striker, like a Alex Pereira or something like that. If you take that guy down and- and dominate him in the first round, and then the second round starts and he has to go right back to side control, or wherever, wherever you had him.

Dan Henderson 34:40 Or just do three eight-minute rounds or something. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:42 Something like that, yeah.

Dan Henderson 34:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:43 Three eight-minute rounds for a championship round. That- that... For a championship fight. That... I like that.

Dan Henderson 34:47 Or for any fight.

Joe Rogan 34:48 Yeah. Well, it's just... I think... You know, Chael Sonnen has said this. It's just like no one can really fight all out for 25 minutes.

Dan Henderson 34:57 No.

Joe Rogan 34:57 You gotta kind of pace yourself.

Dan Henderson 34:58 No. Uh, yeah, and like I said, I said, coming from wrestling to MMA I kind of learned how to pace myself and then... You know, sometimes like my- my fight against Shogun, which was five rounds, but I got tired because I tried to finish him like in the third round and just fucking shot my wad.

Joe Rogan 35:18 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 35:19 You know, and...

Joe Rogan 35:20 That fight was fucking crazy. That was a crazy one.

Dan Henderson 35:24 It was probably more crazy to everybody else watching than it was to me.

Joe Rogan 35:28 Really? Was that?

Dan Henderson 35:29 Because... I don't know, I felt like I dominated him the first three mou- rounds.

Joe Rogan 35:34 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 35:35 Like it wasn't a d- uh... a close decision on those three rounds. The fourth round was kind of close, so it could have went either way I thought, and then the fifth round he was on top of me but he wasn't hurting me at all. So I knew he wouldn't finish me. In my mind, I knew for sure he wasn't gonna finish me and I already won the fight.

Joe Rogan 35:54 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 35:55 And, you know, anytime he did hit me, I'd go... I'd try to get out (laughs) and he just kept mounting me again every time I'd almost get out. I was so tired.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Well, I don't want to say crazy in that it was entertaining.

Dan Henderson 36:07 No, for sure.

Joe Rogan 36:08 It was a very wildly entertaining fight.

Dan Henderson 36:10 But a lot of people like, oh, they didn't know what was gonna happen, if he was gonna finish me or not finish me. But I knew that he wasn't going to.

Joe Rogan 36:18 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 36:18 So that's why it wasn't as exciting to me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:22 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 36:22 It definitely was a lot- a lot tougher fight than I was ho- hoping for.

Joe Rogan 36:26 Well, because of trying to empty out the gas tank.

Dan Henderson 36:29 Yeah, that and- and...And I thought I'd- you know, he'd- I don't know if he was coming off of injuries in the past with some of his other fights where he kind of almost quit and, and they broke him or finished him.

Joe Rogan 36:41 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 36:42 And, uh, so I'm like, that was my goal, was to go out there and, and get on him pretty hard and, and try to break him and finish him.

Joe Rogan 36:50 He's a guy that I feel like maybe fought a little too long.

Dan Henderson 36:54 Yeah, maybe.

Joe Rogan 36:54 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 36:55 And he, he, uh, he definitely w- manned up and, you know, was a lot tougher than I thought he was.

Joe Rogan 37:02 Oh, he's a tough motherfucker.

Dan Henderson 37:03 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:04 In Pride, he was amazing.

Dan Henderson 37:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:06 In, in Pride, he was fucking amazing. I think a lot of guys left their best days behind in Pride, unfortunately. You know, a lot of guys, by the time we saw them in the UFC, Big Nog, Cro Cop.

Dan Henderson 37:16 Cro Cop, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:17 Yeah. There's a few of those guys that just, the wars-

Dan Henderson 37:20 Fedor.

Joe Rogan 37:20 Fedor, yeah. The wars that they had in Pride were so insane. The young kids-

Dan Henderson 37:24 I feel like Fedor didn't have big wars though. A couple, but not-

Joe Rogan 37:27 No.

Dan Henderson 37:28 ... not where he got hit much. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:29 No, not really. I mean, even in the Cro Cop fight, he was basically walking down Cro Cop, which is crazy when you think about-

Dan Henderson 37:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:35 ... what an elite striker Cro Cop is.

Dan Henderson 37:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:38 And Fedor was a motherfucker, dude. Goddamn, that guy was good.

Dan Henderson 37:41 I feel like some of the, uh, referees or something told me, like, when, when they were in their ref- reffing Cro Cop in the UFC, (laughs) he's out there saying, "I'm too old for this shit," or "I don't-" you know?

Joe Rogan 37:53 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 37:53 Like, "Why am I here?" type of thing. (laughs) That's not the attitude you should have when you're out there.

Joe Rogan 37:57 Yeah. Well, I think also, I don't know what he was doing when he was in Pride, but I know a lot of guys, when they were in Pride, were doing a lot of shit.

Dan Henderson 38:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:06 And then they came over to the UFC and all of a sudden they're getting tested.

Dan Henderson 38:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:09 Whereas in Pride, they were saying, like, specifically, "We don't test you for nothing." Like Ensign told me.

Dan Henderson 38:14 No, they, they did-

Joe Rogan 38:15 They said on his contract.

Dan Henderson 38:16 They did blood, they did pee tests, but I'm not sure-

Joe Rogan 38:18 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 38:18 ... what they tested for.

Joe Rogan 38:19 They didn't do anything with it.

Dan Henderson 38:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:20 They just wanted to make sure you were on steroids. (laughs)

Dan Henderson 38:22 Yeah. I asked them if they would or when they'd- you know, and the, the answer I got, "Well, if we did that, it would be you and Noguera would be the only fighters we'd have." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:33 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 38:33 So.

Joe Rogan 38:33 Yeah, I always wondered, I always wondered, like, how much of what you saw was, uh, guys that were sauced up. We know some guys were sauced up, for sure.

Dan Henderson 38:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:42 For sure.

Dan Henderson 38:42 I think a lot of sports have that evolution in there.

Joe Rogan 38:44 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 38:45 Before, you know, before they get big enough to-

Joe Rogan 38:48 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 38:48 ... be concerned about that, they're already doing it.

Joe Rogan 38:51 Yeah. Well, then, then there was the, the testosterone replacement era.

Dan Henderson 38:56 Yeah, and I was the first one to get on that.

Joe Rogan 38:59 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 38:59 And I, and I was like, "There's no way I'm doing it. I don't want to do that." And, you know, the doctor's like, "Well, you'd feel a lot better." And, and I asked the Athletic Commission if I even could. They're like, "Yeah, if you get a doctor's prescription and, uh, you know, they say you need it, no problem." I was like, "Oh, really? Okay." And then everybody started kind of abusing it.

Joe Rogan 39:20 They abused the shit out of it.

Dan Henderson 39:21 Fucked it up for everybody.

Joe Rogan 39:22 Well, those days, the VTOR days, everybody talks about TRT VTOR.

Dan Henderson 39:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:26 Because testosterone replacement VTOR was fucking- Jesus Christ, it was scary.

Dan Henderson 39:31 I- when I fought him in Pride, he tested positive in Vegas.

Joe Rogan 39:34 Oh, really?

Dan Henderson 39:35 'Cause it- we, we were in Vegas.

Joe Rogan 39:37 Oh.

Dan Henderson 39:37 Their first, uh, Pride event in Vegas.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Well, you were one of the only guys who didn't show a performance decline when you got off of it.

Dan Henderson 39:45 Right, no, I didn't- I wasn't taking much, but, but I was- and I always- even when they weren't testing me like they do now, they, they, they randomly show up, and I was asking for, for the UFC to do that for years, even though now they're getting rid of it, but ...

Joe Rogan 40:02 Well, they're getting rid of it, but they're implementing some sort of a new program called Drug Free Sport.

Dan Henderson 40:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:07 But I don't know what that means. It might- m- might- their, uh, logo might be a wink. (clicks tongue) (laughs)

Dan Henderson 40:12 Yeah, yeah. (laughs) Depends on how much money you're making them.

Joe Rogan 40:15 Yeah, I think they wanted a little bit more control of when the tests were going on, because USADA would show up at 6 o'clock in the morning and test guys on weigh-in days and shit like that.

Dan Henderson 40:24 Well, I mean, and, and I had, I had to deal with that when I wrestled for- you know, on the national team, top three guys are subjected to that as well, and I had that for years, you know? And then, you know, I started- that's why I was like, "Oh, I don't want to do that," but they were like, "O- y- you can." But I would test myself at least once or twice every training camp so I could- if anybody questioned me or, or how I was doing it, I could show that I'm not abusing it, this is what my levels were during training camp. So I did that all on my own just because.

Joe Rogan 41:01 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 41:01 Even though I would only get tested by them at the fight.

Joe Rogan 41:05 Did you have to do anything differently once you got off of it, once they removed the TRT exemptions?

Dan Henderson 41:11 No.

Joe Rogan 41:12 Didn't do anything different, just stop taking it?

Dan Henderson 41:14 Nope, just ... A lot of that shit's in your head anyway, so I was like, "Fuck it, I'm just-"

Joe Rogan 41:19 You think?

Dan Henderson 41:20 At that time, yeah, I, I mean, I didn't- I'm sure that I was a little bit affected, but I felt like, yeah, I could push through it no problem, and I did, and I- and as I got older though, like, like in my early 40s, mid-40s, I really started feeling the, uh, the age a little bit as far as just not recovering.

Joe Rogan 41:42 Mm-hmm. Uh, did you adjust your training to, to handle that?

Dan Henderson 41:47 Yeah, I mean, I would, I would- I made my training camps, uh, like a month longer, three weeks longer, just to kind of ease into it and not, not really go real hard for the first two, three weeks and then really start a hard training camp and then taper off a little bit better, but just a little bit, um, shorter practices with more intensity.

Joe Rogan 42:11 And that- and so going back to being a pioneer, I know you hate that word, but-

Dan Henderson 42:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:14 ... you really are.

Dan Henderson 42:15 I don't hate it.

Joe Rogan 42:16 How did you guys figure out what's the best way to train? Like, d- who helped you put together camps? Like, because you're going from this one discipline, wrestling, which you excelled at, and now you're competing in MMA, and there's so many different ways to do it, and nobody really knew exactly the right way to do it. There was a lot of- like, different camps were doing it different ways.

Dan Henderson 42:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:36 How did you guys, uh, figure out?

Dan Henderson 42:39 I don't know, I, I think-You know, knowing how much there was to learn in the sport, you, we couldn't... We kind of broke it up into different categories. You know, one day we're going to spar hard, one, you know, but we also needed to learn how to grapple on the ground, you know, how to, how to use our wrestling to control certain positions. So, I think just knowing that, we didn't spend every day sparring hard or, you know, three, four days a week sparring hard because we needed to learn the other shit too. So, I think it just naturally went that way and, and then as we got more older, a little bit older and, and more experienced in the sport, you know, kind of fine-tune that a little bit. On certain days we'd do certain harder things and really try not to beat your brain up too much, uh, every day. Just one day maybe.

Joe Rogan 43:37 Yeah, it's kind of... It's interesting that even today there's different schools of thought. Like, uh, Sean Strickland spars basically every day.

Dan Henderson 43:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:45 Whereas Max Holloway-

Dan Henderson 43:45 He was at my gym for, like, three years.

Joe Rogan 43:47 Oh, yeah?

Dan Henderson 43:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:48 Was he? He's a wild boy. (laughs)

Dan Henderson 43:51 (laughs) Yeah. Kind of had to let him go.

Joe Rogan 43:54 Oh, did you? The crazier days?

Dan Henderson 43:57 Yeah. No. He just kind of gets too involved talking shit about people.

Joe Rogan 44:02 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 44:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:04 I can see that. (laughs)

Dan Henderson 44:05 I, I, I liked him in the gym. I liked him there. He was a great training partner and you need at least one guy-

Joe Rogan 44:11 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 44:12 ... in your gym that, that does that and goes hard and makes everybody else go hard-

Joe Rogan 44:18 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 44:18 ... when they're going against him. So, I liked it, but...

Joe Rogan 44:23 Other people didn't.

Dan Henderson 44:24 Yeah. He just, you know, he just was too disrespectful to teammates and stuff.

Joe Rogan 44:28 Oh, I see.

Dan Henderson 44:30 And, yeah. And-

Joe Rogan 44:31 That was the young S- Sean Strickland.

Dan Henderson 44:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:34 He's, he's matured quite a bit.

Dan Henderson 44:34 No, this is what... No, I, I, I definitely see that and, you know, I'm... You know, I always rooted for him when he left and, you know, it wasn't like I was like, "I hope that guy..." you know?

Joe Rogan 44:43 Right.

Dan Henderson 44:43 No. I, I always rooted for him. I thought he had a ton of potential. I was yelling at him to go up a weight class because he was always trying to make 170. I'm like, "Dude, you need to go 185. You'd feel a lot better. You, you compete just the... Uh, you'd be fine competing up there." But everybody's always mentally afraid-

Joe Rogan 45:04 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 45:04 ... to be against the bigger guys.

Joe Rogan 45:06 Yeah. He's a different fighter at 185 than he was at 170.

Dan Henderson 45:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:08 At 170 you could see he was compromised, just like-

Dan Henderson 45:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:11 How... I mean, he had to have cut 25 pounds easy, right?

Dan Henderson 45:15 Yeah. No, he's big.

Joe Rogan 45:16 He's way too big for-

Dan Henderson 45:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:17 ... 170. But when you saw his fight with Adesanya, were you shocked?

Dan Henderson 45:22 I, I only saw parts of that. I didn't see-

Joe Rogan 45:24 Really?

Dan Henderson 45:25 ... the whole thing. I was somewhere else. I didn't get to see it.

Joe Rogan 45:27 It's fucking amazing.

Dan Henderson 45:28 Yeah. No, I, I saw parts of it and, yeah, he, he looked great.

Joe Rogan 45:32 He looked fucking amazing. The crazy thing is how good his defense is.

Dan Henderson 45:36 I thought he would do well against him. I didn't think he'd do well just standing up with him there. I mean, I thought Adesanya would get... Would outpoint him a little bit. Uh, but I thought Sean would take him down and beat the shit out of him if he got on top.

Joe Rogan 45:51 Well, that's a lot of people don't realize. Sean has a very good ground game.

Dan Henderson 45:54 No, very good. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:55 Very good. He just doesn't use it very often. He's black belt in jujitsu, good wrestling, good takedown defense.

Dan Henderson 46:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:01 You know, he's solid everywhere, but he just loves to bang.

Dan Henderson 46:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:04 He loves to stay in the front of guys.

Dan Henderson 46:05 He doesn't have, like, huge power. Uh, he's probably getting better at putting it in better places now, but he wasn't, like... He's not a big knockout guy, but he definitely adds them up and, and really-

Joe Rogan 46:20 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 46:20 He's by far one of the biggest pressure fighters.

Joe Rogan 46:25 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 46:26 It just moves forward all the time.

Joe Rogan 46:28 Well, he's also able to do that because of his defense. His defense is so underrated.

Dan Henderson 46:32 He's hard to hit. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:33 So underrated. And in that Adesanya fight, you saw it so clearly.

Dan Henderson 46:36 Yeah, he's really hard to hit.

Joe Rogan 46:38 So good at moving just out of distance and then putting more pressure back on you, checking those, those calf kicks.

Dan Henderson 46:44 He's quick.

Joe Rogan 46:45 Yeah. I was, I was super impressed with that fight.

Dan Henderson 46:48 Yeah. And it's even more impressive, you know, coming back from an accident like he had too.

Joe Rogan 46:53 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he talks about it. It's like, "My quad's all fucked up," on his right leg.

Dan Henderson 46:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:57 It's like his one leg is just, like... The quad's not even attached.

Dan Henderson 47:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:02 Which is nuts.

Dan Henderson 47:04 Yeah. No, it, it, it's... But, again, it just shows what the body can do if you just let it.

Joe Rogan 47:09 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 47:09 You know, if you're just mentally tough enough to push through something.

Joe Rogan 47:14 Well, he changed his style a little bit because of it, you know? He stands different than most people. Stands very straight up.

Dan Henderson 47:21 He always has.

Joe Rogan 47:22 Yeah? Always?

Dan Henderson 47:23 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:24 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 47:24 When I'd spar him, I'd have to... I w- I quit aiming for his head.

Joe Rogan 47:27 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 47:28 I just aimed for his chest and it kind of stopped him and then I could, you know, follow up. If I hit him in the chest, I could follow up and hit him again, but he's hard to hit.

Joe Rogan 47:39 Yeah. It's, it's impressive and he's the only guy doing that sort of Philly Shell style at a championship level. It's, like, very interesting seeing him out there. He looks different than everybody else.

Dan Henderson 47:48 (laughs) Yeah. He's, he's quick. That really helps him not get hit also.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Yeah. Well, it's just also, I think when we're going back to the different schools of thought in terms of sparring, he spars every day. It's most of his training is sparring.

Dan Henderson 48:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:02 So, when you see him sp- fight Adesanya in the fifth round, the guy wasn't even breathing heavy. I mean, he looked, like, ready to go five more after that.

Dan Henderson 48:11 He, he's got ama- Like, just his natural ability is his cardio.

Joe Rogan 48:16 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 48:17 Among... You know, he knows how to fight well too, but naturally, he just has cardio for days.

Joe Rogan 48:24 Well, I got, I got to think that has a lot to do with constantly sparring. So, the sparring thing is not... There's not a lot of tension, very loose and very composed.... and very efficient.

Dan Henderson 48:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:35 Whereas some guys, l- like ... But then again, if you look at Max Holloway, he's about as good as it gets, and that guy doesn't spar at all anymore. He says, "I don't want to get beat up."

Dan Henderson 48:44 He shouldn't.

Joe Rogan 48:45 Yeah, he just says, uh-

Dan Henderson 48:46 Especially the way his fights-

Joe Rogan 48:48 I know.

Dan Henderson 48:48 ... are, are typically worse, you know?

Joe Rogan 48:49 Oh, he's had some fucking crazy wars, crazy wars, crazy wars.

Dan Henderson 48:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:53 But he's like, "I want to go into those fights fresh." And I think that was something that he picked up during training camp, so, like, some of the training camps where he sparred a lot, he was a little beat up by the time he actually got into the, the octagon. And so now, he's like, "Look, I already know how to fight, so I'll just do drills, and hit mitts and pads, and constant conditioning, and, and it works."

Dan Henderson 49:12 Right. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 49:14 But that's what's interesting is, like, there's no one perfect way to do it. It depends upon the athlete, depends upon the skillset.

Dan Henderson 49:22 Right. No, for sure. And, and, you know, you could ... Like, I set certain days to do certain things because of, you know, how tough certain things are on certain days, and you want to go hard. Then you want to kind of take it easy for a day. Easier, I should say. But it doesn't work for everybody. Some guys just need, need a little bit more. Some guys need less. But-

Joe Rogan 49:46 Do you think that's something that you just need to tune in on your own with a coach and with the people that you work with, and just figure it out over time at multiple camps?

Dan Henderson 49:55 Yeah, I guess, but, I mean, for the most part, you get what you get ou- put into it, out of it. So, if, if some day at one day you're not feeling it, y- you know, you kind of get in there and you get lazy, you might get beat up a little bit, but that means you, y- you're, you're having to push through some adversity to kind of keep going, which is also a good thing in training to have to do some days. And, and on the, the flip side, uh, you might feel great some day, and you're the one beating the other guy up in practice, and, and I think it's good for the guys to get beat up t- to have to see how they respond to that.

Joe Rogan 50:35 Right, and to have that experience once you actually get in the fight.

Dan Henderson 50:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:39 Where you've already been in it.

Dan Henderson 50:39 Because it, it's definitely gonna happen in a fight.

Joe Rogan 50:41 Yeah, yeah. What do you think was your toughest fight?

Dan Henderson 50:44 (laughs) I don't know.

Joe Rogan 50:44 Do you have a toughest fight?

Dan Henderson 50:46 I have a toughest night of fighting. That was when I did that tournament, the Rings Tournament, the 32-man unlimited weight class terminite, tournament.

Joe Rogan 50:55 Oh, yeah. I forgot about that one. How many times did you fight that night?

Dan Henderson 50:59 Well, I ... The first event I fought twice, and then I came back and fought three times in a night.

Joe Rogan 51:06 (sighs)

Dan Henderson 51:07 For the, for the-

Joe Rogan 51:08 How much of a gap-

Dan Henderson 51:09 ... four, four ...

Joe Rogan 51:09 ... between the first two fights and the s-

Dan Henderson 51:11 So, uh, I fought Gilbert Yvel.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Right.

Dan Henderson 51:15 Yvel, whatever his name is-

Joe Rogan 51:16 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 51:16 ... uh, the first fight that night, and, and had about an hour, probably, which is pretty good, 45 minutes to an hour. And then I fought Big Nog, and he, uh, fucked my knee up. He ... We were in the clinch and he jumps to guard, and his ass landed on my leg, and just popped my a- MCL. So my leg really hurt, my knee did. I made it through that fight, beat him, and then I had about 20 minutes, 25 minutes. There was one fight in between.

Joe Rogan 51:50 Oh, Jesus.

Dan Henderson 51:51 And then I had to fight Bobbie Lou in the finals. And Randy was in my corner, and, and, uh, Ryan Parsons, and, and they're ... I, I found out afterwards, they're like, "Oh, there's no fucking way he was gonna f- be able to fight." He was just ... I was just a bucket of shit out there i- in the locker room. It hurt. And then, uh ... You know, but that fight, I had never made that much money. I- it was kind of, it was ... This was in the year 2000, so I think the most I had, uh, ever made from wrestling, you know, and with everything combined, was when I fought in the UFC the, the year before that and made like 20 grand. This final fight was worth 200 grand.

Joe Rogan 52:34 Wow.

Dan Henderson 52:35 Just, uh, win or lose, it was a $200,000 difference, so-

Joe Rogan 52:39 Just the one fight?

Dan Henderson 52:40 Yeah, the finals. The champ got everything. It was basically winner take all type of thing. If I would have taken second place, I would have had five fights for about 30 grand total.

Joe Rogan 52:51 (sighs)

Dan Henderson 52:52 And, and I made 230 grand instead.

Joe Rogan 52:54 Isn't that nuts?

Dan Henderson 52:56 Yeah, n- ... I'll tell you what, when I w- went out there and they, they played the national anthem beforehand, that got me pumped up, ready to go. And the thought of $200,000.

Joe Rogan 53:05 Did you tape your knee up or anything?

Dan Henderson 53:07 Uh, no. R- ... I mean, there wasn't really much time, and I just went out there and fought, kind of defended take-downs, and l- ... And this tournament was, uh, l- ... They had a little bit different rules. It was, it was, p- two fives, and, uh, the ... kind of like The Ultimate Fighter and a possibility of another five if it's-

Joe Rogan 53:29 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 53:30 ... if it's a draw.

Joe Rogan 53:31 And Bobbie Lou was a fucking stud, too.

Dan Henderson 53:33 Yeah, he was ... Him and ... Both h- ... Him and Nogueira were both pretty big, like, like, 40 pounds bigger than me. Probably 45.

Joe Rogan 53:40 Bobbie Lou had one of the most horrific KOs. Early in his career, he fought Brad Kohler, and he soccer kicked him-

Dan Henderson 53:48 Oh.

Joe Rogan 53:48 ... with wrestling shoes on.

Dan Henderson 53:50 Oh.

Joe Rogan 53:50 Remember those days?

Dan Henderson 53:51 Yeah, I remember that.

Joe Rogan 53:52 (sighs) Brad Kohler was, like, a bodybuilder. He was a tank.

Dan Henderson 53:55 Yeah, I remember him.

Joe Rogan 53:57 Yeah, he was a tank. And Bobbie Lou stuffed his shots and, and got him down, and soccer kicked him into the next realm.

Dan Henderson 54:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:05 Oof.

Dan Henderson 54:07 Yeah, I think I remember that.

Joe Rogan 54:09 Yeah, see if you can find that. Bobbie Lou was an animal. Very tough guy.

Dan Henderson 54:12 Yeah, no, he was tough. H- him and Nogueira, up 'til the time I f- ... when I had fought them, they'd submitted everybody in the tournament that they'd-

Joe Rogan 54:20 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 54:20 ... fought so far. So, Nogueira had, had-

Joe Rogan 54:25 Here it is.

Dan Henderson 54:25 ... finished three guys.

Joe Rogan 54:27 So, he hit him with a lot of low kicks. That was back in the wrestling shoes days. Very interesting, the difference when your amount of grip that you have with wrestling shoes.

Dan Henderson 54:37 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 54:37 Big fucking difference, right?... that low kick.

Dan Henderson 54:40 Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 54:42 Yeah, Babalu's super high level.

Dan Henderson 54:47 Yeah, he's, he was tough. And-

Joe Rogan 54:49 So here it is, he gets him right here. Boom.

Dan Henderson 54:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:54 Soccer kick.

Dan Henderson 54:55 What show is that in? Is that in Brazil?

Joe Rogan 54:57 Boy, I don't know. I don't remember. 2000... What does it say? World Extreme Fighting... Okay. It was just so interesting-

Dan Henderson 55:10 January 15th of 2000.

Joe Rogan 55:12 Just different fucking rule sets, and-

Dan Henderson 55:14 About a month later is when I fought him in that tournament.

Joe Rogan 55:17 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 55:17 I think it was like February, the King of Kings, uh, finals.

Joe Rogan 55:21 World Extreme Fighting, going pla- Jens Pulver was in there, no shit.

Dan Henderson 55:26 Phil Johns-

Joe Rogan 55:26 Wow.

Dan Henderson 55:28 That Phil Johns dude looks like Justin Gaethje.

Joe Rogan 55:30 He does. I thought it was at first.

Dan Henderson 55:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:32 Oh, Pele fought fucking Pat Miletich. I forgot about that fight too. John Lewis, Jeremy Horn.

Dan Henderson 55:39 Wow. And Nogueira?

Joe Rogan 55:41 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 55:43 Roder- Rodrigo.

Joe Rogan 55:45 Yeah. Matt Hughes was in there. Wow. Bunch of legends. Wow. Just those days, man.

Dan Henderson 55:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:59 The, you know, that's never gonna happen again where you have just the be- the emergence of a sport like this that becomes one of the biggest sports in the world.

Dan Henderson 56:07 Yeah. I think they should do tournaments again.

Joe Rogan 56:10 You think so?

Dan Henderson 56:11 Multiple fights in a, in a night, just-

Joe Rogan 56:13 It would be wild.

Dan Henderson 56:14 I think they should start doing that, and then, uh, it, it kind of gears it up to be an Olympic sport after that.

Joe Rogan 56:20 What do you do, though, if you have, um, injuries? Like what if-

Dan Henderson 56:25 Well, I think you-

Joe Rogan 56:26 ... if alternates-

Dan Henderson 56:26 I think you got to tame down the, the rules a little bit. But there's typically alternates when they do any MMA tournament.

Joe Rogan 56:33 Right. But they have an alternate... Yeah, but, I mean, if someone... Like say if you have a war against one. Like say if, say if you have a war against somebody, and then the, the, in the next round, the guy who also fought, he has to pull out, and then they put in an alternate, and he's fresh.

Dan Henderson 56:49 Yeah, I mean, but they make the alternates fight.

Joe Rogan 56:53 Oh, do they?

Dan Henderson 56:54 Like my fight with Bustamante-

Joe Rogan 56:56 Oh, so the alternate gets through.

Dan Henderson 56:56 ... was an alternate fight.

Joe Rogan 56:57 Oh, I see. I see, so the alternates fight and they get through.

Dan Henderson 56:59 So I actually could have fought again that night. I'm thankful I did and I didn't have any thumbs and a, and a-

Joe Rogan 57:04 (laughs) Blown out knee.

Dan Henderson 57:05 ... and a skinny knee. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:08 (laughs) Wow. Yeah, that would work. That would work where you have a, a potential alternate. You might need two.

Dan Henderson 57:14 Well, if, if you needed the other guy, I guess you would take the loser of the alternate fight-

Joe Rogan 57:18 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 57:19 ... I, I guess.

Joe Rogan 57:19 I guess. I guess you would. Unless you got KO'd.

Dan Henderson 57:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:21 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 57:22 Well, even in... It, it's not where it's at.

Joe Rogan 57:24 Right, if it's in Japan.

Dan Henderson 57:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:25 They're like, "Dust him off, put some ice on his head."

Dan Henderson 57:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:28 Yeah. It's just-

Dan Henderson 57:30 For sure.

Joe Rogan 57:31 It is, it is interesting when you see tournaments though because it's like you have a built-in super fight, right? You have, you see over the night guys winning, and you know their style, and so you're looking forward to the matchup when it comes to the main event.

Dan Henderson 57:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:46 I mean, that was the early UFC.

Dan Henderson 57:47 Right. Yeah, I fought, I fought... UFC 17 was a tournament.

Joe Rogan 57:51 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, the tournaments were wild. The first one I went to was UFC 12. That was when, uh, Vitor fought Trey Tellemann, and then he fought Scott Ferozo.

Dan Henderson 58:01 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:01 And he, and he won the heavyweight tournament when he was 19.

Dan Henderson 58:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:05 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 58:06 And then Randy came in after that, I guess.

Joe Rogan 58:08 I just don't... Yeah, Randy was zapped. That was back when Vitor was like 240 when he fought Randy. He looked like-

Dan Henderson 58:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:14 ... his trap started at the top of his ears. (laughs)

Dan Henderson 58:17 (laughs) Had a little bitty head on top of a huge body.

Joe Rogan 58:21 That's crazy. He was crazy big. He was so bulked up. But I just wonder like what athletic commissions would allow you to do that? I know Los Angeles, just a few years ago, um, when they had Glory: Last Man Standing, they had a big tournament there.

Dan Henderson 58:34 But that was kickboxing.

Joe Rogan 58:35 It was a big kickboxing tournament. Yeah. I wonder if they would allow something like that with some athletic commissions with MMA.

Dan Henderson 58:42 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, I, I wouldn't see why they wouldn't. I mean...

Joe Rogan 58:48 It'd be exciting.

Dan Henderson 58:49 They could tame, tame it down a little bit, kind of like they do The Ultimate Fighter, but-

Joe Rogan 58:53 Hmm.

Dan Henderson 58:54 ... you know, have it all in one night, not over-

Joe Rogan 58:58 Right.

Dan Henderson 58:59 ... a time.

Joe Rogan 59:00 Well, it certainly would be exciting. I think the options that would be interesting are, um, one 15-minute round instead of three fives. I think that would be very interesting. And then a tournament. That, that would also be very interesting if they decided to do... I mean, if someone wants to stand out from another organization, like the PFL or one of those... Like the PFL's got some weird point system that they do that I don't really understand. You get a certain amount of points for a submission and a certain amount of points for a KO, and it's like y- you're ahead in the score.

Dan Henderson 59:30 Is that like to go for the whole season-

Joe Rogan 59:32 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 59:33 ... to see where you're ranked?

Joe Rogan 59:34 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 59:34 And then-

Joe Rogan 59:34 Yeah. It's, it's-

Dan Henderson 59:36 But I thought the whole season was a tournament anywa-

Joe Rogan 59:38 It is.

Dan Henderson 59:38 Well, I guess they, it's only certain weight classes or the whole, every weight class?

Joe Rogan 59:41 It's cer- it's weight classes. Well, I don't know if it's, they do it with all weight classes, but I think that's just how they, they run their organization.

Dan Henderson 59:49 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:49 I hope they stop doing that.

Dan Henderson 59:51 Well, the- they're now gonna own, uh, Bellator.

Joe Rogan 59:54 Yeah, which is interesting. They got a lot of cash, apparently. A lot of oil money.

Dan Henderson 1:00:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 Go in that direction.

Dan Henderson 1:00:01 A lot of investor money.

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 Yeah. Listen, the more big organizations, the better, I think, for, for the athletes, for sure. For the fans, for sure. And they have Francis Ngannou. You know, if Francis Ngannou becomes their heavyweight, you know, poster guy, and, you know, he's their heavyweight champion, I mean-

Dan Henderson 1:00:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 ... it could be very interesting if they throw a bunch of money at it.

Dan Henderson 1:00:21 No, I agree. I, I think it's great for the sport, and-... you know, great for the, the fighters, the athletes. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 Yes. Definitely great for the fighters. The fighters can't just have the UFC. They n- And it's good for the UFC too. Everybody needs competition. You know, the UFC needs the ... And it, it's great for the fighters. If you got the PFL bidding on you, you got One Championship bidding on you, and you got the UFC bidding on you, that's a good place to be.

Dan Henderson 1:00:43 Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 If it's only the UFC around, you gotta take what they give you-

Dan Henderson 1:00:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 ... and you know.

Dan Henderson 1:00:48 I was kinda in that boat for a bit-

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 1:00:50 ... when the UFC bought Pride and then-

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:00:53 ... I was in the UFC again. And then-

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:00:55 ... Strikeforce came along and-

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:00:57 ... I went there and then they bought (laughs) Strikeforce.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Yeah. (laughs) That's right. That's right.

Dan Henderson 1:01:00 That's what I told the press. I said, "Dana is like a stalker. (laughs) That jerk."

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 1:01:06 He, (laughs) he loves me so much he's gotta buy the company so-

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 1:01:09 ... I'm gonna ...

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 You remember, uh, uh, Affliction? They were around-

Dan Henderson 1:01:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 ... for a hot minute.

Dan Henderson 1:01:15 Yeah, that, I think they, they basically broke the bank when Josh Barnett tested positive.

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:01:22 He was gonna fight Fedor in the fight. They just-

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:01:24 ... canceled the whole event.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 Yep.

Dan Henderson 1:01:26 And never had another show.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 Dana didn't know about it. I'm pretty sure he was gambling. I think he was playing blackjack and, uh, I texted him and I said, "Hey, did you hear what's going on?" I go, "Josh Barnett tested positive." And then he called me up. He goes, "What the fuck's going on?" And then I, I told him. He's like, "Holy shit." He was so happy. (laughs)

Dan Henderson 1:01:46 (laughs) Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 He was so happy.

Dan Henderson 1:01:48 It would've been nice for ... I think Trump was getting ready to be involved as a, uh ... He was at the event to watch, or he was at the previous event to watch and I think they were kinda grooming him to be an investor.

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Interesting. That would've been interesting.

Dan Henderson 1:02:03 Yeah. But, yeah, it, it-

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 That was back when everybody loved Trump.

Dan Henderson 1:02:06 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 (laughs) Isn't that crazy?

Dan Henderson 1:02:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 Boy, boy did fucking things change.

Dan Henderson 1:02:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 He was in all the rap songs. Rappers would always talk about Trump.

Dan Henderson 1:02:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Everybody loved Trump. It was like this wheelin' dealin' billionaire character that everybody enjoyed.

Dan Henderson 1:02:22 Yeah. I felt like he done a decent job.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 As president?

Dan Henderson 1:02:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 When you look at his regulations, it c- it certainly helped the economy.

Dan Henderson 1:02:31 Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 I mean, that, that guy who was the head of-

Dan Henderson 1:02:32 I feel like we were in a lot better spot then than now, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 Without a doubt. Well, there was a lot of shit happened. COVID and the world.

Dan Henderson 1:02:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 The world's f- the world scares the shit out of me right now. Right now, I'm like, "F- boy, this is not good."

Dan Henderson 1:02:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 None of this, this-

Dan Henderson 1:02:46 Ukraine blowing up, blowing up a ammo.

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 ... Ukraine thing, not good. Yeah. Everything not good. Everything scares the shit out of me. I'm looking at all of it going, "Fuck." Like there's no good solutions to the Middle East.

Dan Henderson 1:02:57 No.

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 All of it looks terrible. And the Ukraine thing looks terrible. It just, it just scares the shit out of me because it's just like all it takes is one person to fucking launch a nuke and the world changes forever.

Dan Henderson 1:03:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 And I've never felt like that was a possibility in my lifetime until now.

Dan Henderson 1:03:16 Yeah, I mean, this is, it is a little bit on the unsure realm of how I f- you know, I feel definitely a little bit unsure about what, what's gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 Yeah. It vary. Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking at like moving to Iceland or some shit. (laughs)

Dan Henderson 1:03:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 Like where, where, where's it gonna be safe from the fallout?

Dan Henderson 1:03:35 I gotta do, I gotta do some more, uh, research on aliens-

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:03:38 ... and figure out where to (laughs) where the next vacation spot is.

Joe Rogan 1:03:41 Well, that would be fascinating-

Dan Henderson 1:03:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 ... if the, the aliens come down and stop it all.

Dan Henderson 1:03:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:45 If they're just going, "Listen, you dipshits."

Dan Henderson 1:03:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:47 "We've been watching, waiting." It's like, uh, I ... The way I describe it is like two brothers fighting in the backyard. The parents are like, "Hang on. Let them fucking work this out and just figure out ... When one of them grabs a rock, then run in."

Dan Henderson 1:04:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 "Okay, enough."

Dan Henderson 1:04:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 "That's enough." Yeah, I don't know. Just I've never felt more like the world's on the verge of being forever ruined. This, this is what it feels like right now. Just feels like ... I've never felt more like we're on ... I mean, this is m- must have been what it felt like at the m- the, uh, at the beginning of World War III, or World War II rather.

Dan Henderson 1:04:24 (laughs) Don't say three.

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 I know. I know. I'm sorry.

Dan Henderson 1:04:27 Freudian slip.

Joe Rogan 1:04:28 (sighs) Yeah. That's, It's fucked.

Dan Henderson 1:04:33 So what have you been up to other than, uh, obsessing over hunting?

Joe Rogan 1:04:38 Oh, that's the, that's my main hobby these days. But, uh, other than that, um, you know, running the club. W- we have this comedy club that you went to last night.

Dan Henderson 1:04:47 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 The Mothership.

Dan Henderson 1:04:48 I was, I was impressed. It was pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 1:04:49 Thank you. It's been fun. That's, that's a nice thing 'cause, you know, in LA, we had The Comedy Store and one of the things that I realized when I moved out here, uh, there's no real, there was no real home base and all these comics had already moved out here. There was a shit ton of comedians that, that decided, "Fuck California. I can't deal with this anymore. I can't perform." 'Cause they were locking everybody down for like a year and a half. They wouldn't let anybody do shows.

Dan Henderson 1:05:12 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 They wouldn't even let them do shows in the parking lot of The Comedy Store. It was ... The whole thing was so crazy. Didn't make any sense. And out here, we were doing full shows indoors.

Dan Henderson 1:05:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:23 And-

Dan Henderson 1:05:24 It's amazing how that, (laughs) how that is, huh?

Joe Rogan 1:05:25 Yeah, and nothing happened. You know, "We're all gonna die!"

Dan Henderson 1:05:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 No one died.

Dan Henderson 1:05:29 I shut my gym down for six weeks.

Joe Rogan 1:05:32 Oh, that's it?

Dan Henderson 1:05:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 Nice. That's good.

Dan Henderson 1:05:34 Yeah. No, I live in a good spot.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 That is a good spot.

Dan Henderson 1:05:37 And our, our county sheriff, b- you know, said, "Fuck you, Governor Newsom. You're a hypocrite. We're ... I'm not gonna arrest people for, you know, being responsible and owning businesses and still"-

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:05:49 ... "trying to make their money and, and keep it afloat."

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 Well, it destroyed LA.

Dan Henderson 1:05:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 I mean, it destroyed the restaurant industry. It really did.

Dan Henderson 1:05:57 I bet. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 It destroyed it. Some, they, at one point in time, they lost somewhere around 70% of all restaurants. It was just insane.

Dan Henderson 1:06:03 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 Just insane. And they never corrected 'Cause you know what it is? The people that run the government, their, the amount of money they make is not dependent on whether or not businesses stay open.

Dan Henderson 1:06:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 If it was, they would've never shut jack shit down. If the, if the, if they worked at like ... Say, if you work for a company and you're a CEO and the company makes a profit, you get bonuses.

Dan Henderson 1:06:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:26 You get bonuses based on the amount of profit the company gets. If the whole state lost money and the economy crashed, it, that should be reflected in your paycheck.

Dan Henderson 1:06:36 I agree 100%.

Joe Rogan 1:06:37 And if the whole state kicks ass, that should be reflected in your paycheck.

Dan Henderson 1:06:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 And if that was the case-... you would have seen a completely different response. They would've been like, "Ladies and gentlemen, you just need to get vitamin D, and everybody needs to start drinking water and exercising and losing weight."

Dan Henderson 1:06:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 "And, uh, here's some ways to boost your immune system." Instead of, "Everybody has to stay indoors and, uh, all the kids have to fucking be home and mask up and..." It's just nuts. It's just nuts to watch it all work, and that so many people stepped in line. So many people were like, "Okay," and nobody got angry about it. I was, one month in, I was like, "What the fuck is go-" I'm, I can't... I started looking in May of 2020 because I was like, "These motherfuckers are never gonna let this go. They're never gonna let this go." They, they keep ramping up all the new regulations and ramping up what can be closed. They shut out outdoor dining, which made no fucking sense.

Dan Henderson 1:07:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 The... None of it made any sense. And that's when I started moving. When I came out here, first thing we did with my, my family, we went to a restaurant. We sat indoors and my kids were like, "We can eat at a restaurant?"

Dan Henderson 1:07:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 "This is crazy." And, um, and we went on a lake, uh, on Lake Austin. We were looking at this house, and we went on a boat on the lake and there was people jumping in the water and drinking and, and playing music, and my kids were like, "I wanna live here." So then I was just talking my wife into it. It's like, "Come on," like, "Listen, we could just... Well, if we don't like it, we could always move back."

Dan Henderson 1:08:00 Where was she from? From the LA area?

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 Well, we lived, we both lived in LA for 20 plus years.

Dan Henderson 1:08:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 You know, it's like, had all these friends there. I had all my... My business was there. Everything was there. You know, comedy was there. Everything was there. But I just didn't like... I don't like people telling me what to do, especially people that are hypocrites.

Dan Henderson 1:08:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 And those photos of Newsom came out when he was dining indoors with no mask on and just like, these fucking people.

Dan Henderson 1:08:23 And his kids were still going to school at a private school.

Joe Rogan 1:08:26 Eh.

Dan Henderson 1:08:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:27 Yeah, all of it. The whole thing was fucked. It was just... The whole thing is fucked. You're just allowing these people that... I never thought about who the governor was before. I never thought about who the mayor was.

Dan Henderson 1:08:38 Yeah, me neither.

Joe Rogan 1:08:39 It didn't bother me.

Dan Henderson 1:08:39 I never really cared.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 I didn't care. I did what I had to do and hopefully they did a good job and they didn't fuck the economy up, that's all.

Dan Henderson 1:08:45 Now we, now we need Joe Rogan in there. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:47 Fuck that, dude. You don't want me.

Dan Henderson 1:08:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:49 You don't want me in there.

Dan Henderson 1:08:51 (laughs) I would rather have you than... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 Yeah, you probably would.

Dan Henderson 1:08:54 He's-

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 You'd probably want to have me in there, but they'd probably assassinate me.

Dan Henderson 1:08:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 It wouldn't take long before I'd be like, "Hey, why, why are we spending money on all these things? Fuck outta here with this."

Dan Henderson 1:09:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:04 (laughs) "How many people are working on the homeless committee?"

Dan Henderson 1:09:06 (laughs) Oh, fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 "Get outta here." We, uh, we looked into that. The homeless thing is nuts. There's, uh, people on this, uh, whatever governing body that's supposed to be handling the homeless crisis. There's people on that that are making $240,000 a year. They have zero incentive to get rid of the homeless problem, because then they don't have a job. Like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna trans-... transfer over to somewhere else and make the same amount of money? Sweet cushy job?

Dan Henderson 1:09:29 Yeah, they could probably use that money to, to actually help homeless out.

Joe Rogan 1:09:34 I s-... I don't know how the fuck they do it. They, they've ruined it. They've got... It's gotten so bad that I just don't know how you pull the... how you turn it around.

Dan Henderson 1:09:42 Well, I think a lot of homeless... A lot of it is, uh, a lot of it stems from getting mixed up with drug use-

Joe Rogan 1:09:49 100%.

Dan Henderson 1:09:50 ... and being, being dependent.

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 Mm-hmm. Drug use and mental illness.

Dan Henderson 1:09:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 That's the primary cause of most of it. You know, and they try to make it seem as if it's just, like, people down on their luck, like, "Eh, there's a few."

Dan Henderson 1:10:01 Maybe they should've, probably should have finished that wall, would have helped.

Joe Rogan 1:10:05 T-... That's the craziest thing, is that two things are happening simultaneously. The southern border, wide open, and people are pushing for people to be able to vote with no ID. Those two things are insane.

Dan Henderson 1:10:17 No, I absolutely-

Joe Rogan 1:10:18 Did you see that they're sending people back from Venezuela? 'Cause Venezuela has a communist government, and the people that come over to here, though, they're, they escape socialism. And those people are most likely to vote like Cubans do in America. Cubans in America vote Republican.

Dan Henderson 1:10:33 Right. They're sending them back?

Joe Rogan 1:10:33 And so when they're having these issues... Yeah, they're trying to, like, actively send Venezuelans back to Venezuela, like, "Oh, yeah."

Dan Henderson 1:10:38 Of course they are. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:40 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 1:10:41 It's so transparent. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 It's so transparent, I don't care what their other excuses are. The fact that they're targeting Venezuelans and that Venezuelans 100% hate socialism, the one, the ones that come over here, it's nuts. I mean, look, there's always these periods in history where things get bad and then they get better again. They get bad and they get better again. I mean, things were great for a long time, but they are on a slide and we gotta pull out of that fucking slide.

Dan Henderson 1:11:07 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:11:08 And if we don't, it's not good.

Dan Henderson 1:11:11 I'm real nervous about next year.

Joe Rogan 1:11:14 Real nervous, no matter who wins.

Dan Henderson 1:11:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:16 The country's gonna be in a frothy uproar because of this fucked up media that we have.

Dan Henderson 1:11:20 Right. No, I, I think they're the biggest problem that we have.

Joe Rogan 1:11:23 Yeah. No, they are. They're, they are the enemy of peace.

Dan Henderson 1:11:25 On both sides, not just-

Joe Rogan 1:11:27 Mm-hmm.

Dan Henderson 1:11:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:28 Yeah, I agree. Well, their business is just get people riled up, get people paying attention, and the most outrageous shit that they can say, the most outrageous stories they can publish, those are the ones that are gonna get clicks, so those are the ones they publish. And then everybody gets into this frothy panic, and then meanwhile...

Dan Henderson 1:11:44 Yeah. It's amazing the spin that they can put on... You know, if, if both sides were airing the same exact story, it sounds like two, two completely different things.

Joe Rogan 1:11:54 Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. There's no, like, real, like, objective news source that everybody trusts anymore. There's not one thing where you go, "Oh, this is the blah, blah, blah news." They're always legit, above board. It's a complicated issue and they're gonna lay out all the different sides to it.

Dan Henderson 1:12:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:09 No. Everything's got a spin to it. It's no good. It's not good. It's not good and I don't know how it gets better.

Dan Henderson 1:12:18 Yeah, I don't either.

Joe Rogan 1:12:20 (laughs)

Dan Henderson 1:12:21 No.

Joe Rogan 1:12:21 It just sucks that you have to think about it.

Dan Henderson 1:12:23 Yeah, no, I-

Joe Rogan 1:12:24 'Cause for most of my life, I didn't really think about it that much.

Dan Henderson 1:12:27 I never did. I always worried about wrestling and-

Joe Rogan 1:12:31 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:12:33 ... then fighting and then, you know, just-

Joe Rogan 1:12:34 Simpler things.

Dan Henderson 1:12:35 Yeah. Getting shit... Getting better at what I did.

Joe Rogan 1:12:39 Yeah.

Dan Henderson 1:12:41 And I would never, never go into politics, so it didn't matter to me.... you know, I never really cared. Like, just like what you said, I, I, I was the same way. I di- didn't really pay attention to much of it until recently.

Joe Rogan 1:12:55 I talked to Dana White once, I said, "You should run for president." And he's like, "Dude, the skeletons that would come out of my closet, it would be-"

Dan Henderson 1:13:01 Oh. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:01 "... like The Walking Dead." (laughs)

Dan Henderson 1:13:04 Oh. Yeah, that's absolutely true.

Joe Rogan 1:13:06 Of course. Of course. I