JRE MMA Show #150 with Daniel Cormier

1. 0:00 – 1:21

   Obsessive perfectionism: when OCD-style habits create champions

   1. DCDaniel Cormier0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music)

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Bro.

   5. DCDaniel Cormier0:13

      I got a friend named Zach Esposito, and he used to do that. We would get done with practice, and every technique had to be perfect. Even getting undressed and then back dressed was... This dude would sometimes get undressed three times.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      What?

   7. DCDaniel Cormier0:27

      He would get dressed. He'd, maybe he'd put something on in the wrong order. I don't know what he would do, but then he would take it off, and he would do it again. He would take it off. And then he, if he was drilling, every move. It's like, I don't know what that, that, that disease is called.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:40

      Obsessive-compulsive disorder.

   9. DCDaniel Cormier0:41

      That, that. Right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       Yeah.

   11. DCDaniel Cormier0:42

       It was with everything, though. And he became an NCAA champion.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Doesn't that make sense, though, that, like, those kind of things, if you could channel them into something positive.

   13. DCDaniel Cormier0:50

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Like, if you're a maniac-

   15. DCDaniel Cormier0:51

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       ... and you could just... Like, say, if you're, like, a compulsive gambler. You can't stop gambling.

   17. DCDaniel Cormier0:55

       Yeah. (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       You just gotta get out there and place bets.

   19. DCDaniel Cormier0:57

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       You gotta place... There's like, there's guys like that. If they could channel that same energy-

   21. DCDaniel Cormier1:01

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       ... into something else, like do jujitsu.

   23. DCDaniel Cormier1:03

       Could you imagine? Could you imagine, like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       Yeah.

   25. DCDaniel Cormier1:04

       ... an athlete-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Yeah.

   27. DCDaniel Cormier1:06

       ... that's like that?

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       Yeah.

   29. DCDaniel Cormier1:07

       Michael Jordan.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       I'm sure he's like that.
2. 1:21 – 3:02

   The "monster" mindset in combat sports—and why it doesn’t turn off

   1. DCDaniel Cormier1:21

      Will make you the GOAT, but the other side of it is, it don't turn off.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:26

      Right.

   3. DCDaniel Cormier1:26

      And that's the fucked up part.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:28

      That's the fucked up part. It doesn't turn off.

   5. DCDaniel Cormier1:29

      The compet-... Having that, that as a thing, and then the competitiveness never turns off.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:35

      Right.

   7. DCDaniel Cormier1:35

      It drives you crazy.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:36

      Well, that's why Tyson didn't work out for years.

   9. DCDaniel Cormier1:39

      Yep.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       You know, Mike did my podcast twice, and the first time he did it, Mike was, like, heavier. He was smoking weed all the time.

   11. DCDaniel Cormier1:46

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       He was so chill. It's like, wow. It's like, Mike Tyson's, like, such a sweet guy. And then Mike Tyson signed up for the Roy Jones fight.

   13. DCDaniel Cormier1:53

       Yep.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:54

       And the next time he came in, he was 225.

   15. DCDaniel Cormier1:56

       Yeah, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       Forearms were jacked.

   17. DCDaniel Cormier1:59

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:59

       And he was intense.

   19. DCDaniel Cormier2:00

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:00

       And I'd made a decision to make the table wider-

   21. DCDaniel Cormier2:03

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:03

       ... at my podcast studio, because I was so nervous being that close to him.

   23. DCDaniel Cormier2:07

       Really? So-

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:07

       Yeah.

   25. DCDaniel Cormier2:07

       So-

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:07

       I was like, I gotta, I gotta have a little, just to separate, like, from really intense people, so I could collect my thoughts.

   27. DCDaniel Cormier2:12

       Yeah, he tapped back into that thingy.

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:14

       Yes.

   29. DCDaniel Cormier2:14

       Right? He had suppressed it. When you saw him and he was friendly-

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:17

       He had suppressed it.
3. 3:02 – 7:08

   Mike Tyson’s volatile peak: press conference audio, biting incidents, and primal survival

   1. DCDaniel Cormier3:02

      When he's talking to the reporter. That reporter, that, that is still one of the craziest things I've ever witnessed. When he was on the stage, and the reporter said something, and Mike started talking about, "If we were in jail, I would do this, or..." It, it-

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:15

      Oh, that's right.

   3. DCDaniel Cormier3:16

      Oh my God.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:17

      "I'd fuck you till you love me."

   5. DCDaniel Cormier3:17

      "I'd fuck you till you love me."

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:19

      (laughs)

   7. DCDaniel Cormier3:19

      Joe, how the... I mean, what? (laughs) What?

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:24

      Oh my God.

   9. DCDaniel Cormier3:25

      But imagine that guy-

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       Yeah.

   11. DCDaniel Cormier3:27

       ... in that state, trying to operate in the world with normal people like us.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:31

       Right.

   13. DCDaniel Cormier3:32

       Doesn't work.

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:32

       It doesn't work.

   15. DCDaniel Cormier3:33

       He's in jail.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       Right.

   17. DCDaniel Cormier3:35

       Crazy.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:35

       It's crazy because the thing that made him great could also run away like a wildfire and burn everything around him.

   19. DCDaniel Cormier3:41

       And everybody.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:42

       Yeah, and, and when you're the man, and he was the man, then there, there's no restraints anymore.

   21. DCDaniel Cormier3:49

       Mm-mm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       Which is even crazier, 'cause now you, you crash a Rolls-Royce, you just give it to the cops. Remember that?

   23. DCDaniel Cormier3:54

       Yeah, no matter what he did.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:55

       He says, "Just take my car. I don't even want it."

   25. DCDaniel Cormier3:56

       No matter what he did, take the car, I'm fine.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:59

       Yeah.

   27. DCDaniel Cormier3:59

       They hide everything. You know, honestly-

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:02

       Here it is.

   29. DCDaniel Cormier4:02

       Here, here it is right there. That's it. He was like, "I'm like your daddy." Look at-

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:05

       Let me hear this, Jimmy. Give me some volume. Go, go from the beginning.
4. 7:08 – 10:40

   Cormier vs. Jon Jones scuffle + wrestling psychology: fear of being pinned

   1. DCDaniel Cormier7:08

      cower down, but in this situation, Mike Tyson's not gonna cower down to- Right. ... Lennox Lewis. So he bites him. (sighs) Right? He bites him. Whoo. He f- he probably fell down. I'ma tell you one thing. I'll tell you this right now. When I was in that press fight with Jon Jones, I was still undefeated at the time, and we were at the MGM Grand, and he headbutted me, like put his head on me. So I push him. He's an alpha male too, so the fucker attacks me. Right. Right? So we get to fighting... (laughs) Oh, boy. So we get to fighting, right? And we're fighting, and Joe, the security guard from the UFC, falls under me. But now I'm on my back as we go flying off of the stage. I will say there was a (laughs) thought to bite the motherfucker. (laughs) Because like what am I doing on my back? (laughs) Right? Like, I'm losing. Yeah, right? I'm gonna bite the son of a bitch. I ain't got no mouthpiece in my mouth. Ugh. Like, and if I woulda bit him, that would've been like a reaction for a guy that usually will walk around in most places around this world as the alpha. And then- Mm-hmm. ... when he finds himself on the bottom as the alpha- Right. ... he's gotta find a way to survive. So that's what Mike Tyson would do. Mm-hmm. He would go as primal as he could think, "How do I survive?" It was always survival with this guy. Wow. Wow. And if I woulda bit him, you'd have been like, "DC bit him, but it's not the first time we saw somebody bite a motherfucker down there, 'cause Mike Tyson did it three times." It's like you're so un- it's so unfamiliar. I told my kids the other day at wrestling practice, Joe, I said, "My whole life, I feared getting pinned so much, that I don't even sleep on my back to this day." (laughs) Because I don't want those fuckers laying on their back in the wrestling room. (sighs) I said, "I fell asleep on my back one day and woke up in a full panic attack. Jones had me on my back, man. That shit's unfamiliar." So if I woulda did some crazy shit, that's just what've happened. That's what would've happened. (laughs) 'Cause you don't go to your back, right? That's hilarious that you can't sleep on your back. You can sleep on your back? Nah, I, I snore too loud when I sleep on my back. I cannot sleep on my back. I just like... I really have kinda trained myself to where I'm like, "I'm getting pinned." I don't let the kids- (laughs) ... in my wrestling room... (laughs) That's so wild. I don't let my kids, like when they, when I'm talking, and if they're like laid back, like, "Get off your back." If they're stretching, I'm like, "Don't stay on your back too long." You try to- Wow. ... I try to trick 'em in their mind that their back is literally the most, the worst place in the world. And so... And that's what my coach did to me. Everything I did, "Get off your back. Get off your back." Then he would lock me on my fucking back. He would get dudes lined up in high school and college (sniffs) in an arm triangle, which is the worst. You can't breathe. It's a headlock in wrestling, right? You obviously don't go chest down when you're trying to pin 'em. He would put me on my back in those situations with my fresh partners, and I would have to get off my back not to get pinned. So I just never got pinned in my whole career. I wrestled from 10 to 30, and I, I might've got pinned like three or four times in all those years because I was just so afraid of going to my... I just never got pinned. Wow. And I'm trying to implement that into my kids. It makes sense. Yeah. It totally makes sense if you make it the u- utmost priority. Yeah. Because you've talked about this before that you see sometimes when guys get tired, they accept positions too easy. Yes. And when

5. 10:40 – 14:29

   Submission timing and today’s skill gap: Oliveira and the evolution of MMA

   1. DCDaniel Cormier10:40

      they go to the back, they don't immediately scramble. They don't- Mm-hmm. ... immediately try to get an angle or an underhook or something. Yep. You'll see them accept the position. Yeah. Then it's too late. Yeah, it's too late. Yeah. If... When we, when you're fighting or in those situations, you gotta address it now or you're done. So when we're doing commentary, and we're talking about the fight, and somebody gets taken down, and a guy starts to get into the positions where I get quiet, because you're better there, and you start walking through the submissions, how it's getting set up and how... I'm like, "Oh, this dude's done." The guy on top is waiting. He's taking too long to address what's happening. And then next thing you know, "Oh my god, triangle." Right? Mm-hmm. Because it's not just when the legs go up. You're like, "This dude's starting to dev- he's starting to set up a triangle." And I'm like, "He is." Right? He's waiting. You gotta always be in motion. You gotta- Hmm. ... always be kinda thinking about the next step or you're screwed. If you start accepting, you're screwed. When you look at the guys that are really good at MMA submissions off their back, like Oliveira, Oliveira's- Oh. ... real good. Mm-hmm. It's so crisp though. When- Yeah. ... he gets those moments, those openings, (snaps fingers) just crisp. Yep. Right away. Yeah. He, he finds those arm bars and triangles, and he, he cinches submissions up so quick. Yeah. (laughs) So- So quick. One of the quickest guys. I mean, he's g- Does he have the most submissions in the history of the sport? Yeah, he does. Yeah. He al- Like 20. They're so quick, man. They're so... The f- the technique is so smooth, so smooth. How do you have 20 submissions? How do you submit 20 of the most dangerous people in the world?

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:12

      This dude's a beast. I remember his first, uh, submission win in the UFC with Efrain Escudero.

   3. DCDaniel Cormier12:17

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:17

      Remember, he hopped on his back?

   5. DCDaniel Cormier12:19

      You know, that was here.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      Was it here?

   7. DCDaniel Cormier12:21

      That was actually in Austin, I believe. There was a guy that came into a meeting today and said, "My first pro fight while I was in Texas."

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:27

      Ah.

   9. DCDaniel Cormier12:27

      He saw, "I watched Efrain Escudero fight against Charles Olivares." Excuse me. But he's a beast, man. Like, these dudes are ... The fighters today are just crazy.

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:38

       They keep getting better. It's che- it's keeps, it's next level every time.

   11. DCDaniel Cormier12:43

       Every time.

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:43

       Every time.

   13. DCDaniel Cormier12:44

       I bet when you'll go back, 'cause you do a lot of, like, re- watching fights.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:49

       Yeah.

   15. DCDaniel Cormier12:49

       When you go back to the days before, whenever I was watching as a fan, thinking, "Unbelievable to watch Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz and these guys fighting." The way that they fought today, it's like prehistoric.

   16. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       Mm.

   17. DCDaniel Cormier13:05

       It's crazy, the, the skill level.

   18. JRJoe Rogan13:08

       The difference.

   19. DCDaniel Cormier13:09

       Oh, my good-

   20. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       Yeah.

   21. DCDaniel Cormier13:10

       They, it's like they're faster, they're bigger, they're stronger.

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:13

       Mm-hmm.

   23. DCDaniel Cormier13:13

       They're more advanced. Their techniques are better. And it, it happens in every sport, right? But in MMA now, you're seeing it. And it's like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:20

       Chuck was just like a marauder.

   25. DCDaniel Cormier13:22

       He was crazy, wasn't he?

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       He was a marauder.

   27. DCDaniel Cormier13:24

       I-

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:24

       I mean, the thing about Chuck was he had an iron chin.

   29. DCDaniel Cormier13:27

       He did.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:28

       And so, and he was not scared to take shots. He would just wade into the fire. I mean, he was very skillful. He was very skillful-
6. 14:29 – 18:49

   Old-school camps, functional training pioneers, and the pre-USADA era

   1. DCDaniel Cormier14:29

      Fackler was in shape too.

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:30

      Very good shape.

   3. DCDaniel Cormier14:31

      Dude, he was in shape.

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:32

      Well, Hackleman-

   5. DCDaniel Cormier14:33

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:33

      John Hackleman from The Pit?

   7. DCDaniel Cormier14:34

      Yeah, he's a psychopath.

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:35

      That guy w- he's a psycho.

   9. DCDaniel Cormier14:36

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:36

       He's a great psycho.

   11. DCDaniel Cormier14:37

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:37

       I love that dude. But that guy was one of the first guys to implement, like, really, uh, unusual training.

   13. DCDaniel Cormier14:43

       Yup.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:44

       Like wheelbarrows filled with rocks and shit-

   15. DCDaniel Cormier14:46

       Mm-hmm. Yup.

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:46

       ... pushing him uphill. He, that pit, that training center that he had in San Luis Obispo-

   17. DCDaniel Cormier14:51

       It looked like it was outdoor.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:52

       Yeah, the cage was outdoors.

   19. DCDaniel Cormier14:53

       Yeah, it looked... I was-

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:54

       Yeah.

   21. DCDaniel Cormier14:54

       I always looked at that like, "Are these guys training outside?"

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:57

       Hackleman's funny, man.

   23. DCDaniel Cormier14:58

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:58

       He's a fun dude. But he just was the first to realize that, like, uh, functional training, you know-

   25. DCDaniel Cormier15:04

       Yup, functional training.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:05

       ... thi- this kind of work, those, like, f- really hard physical work along with technique.

   27. DCDaniel Cormier15:09

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:10

       It's like you just, he w- there's, there, it's interesting when you go back to the pioneers, how they all had to figure it out on their own, like Militic-

   29. DCDaniel Cormier15:16

       And that's what it was.

   30. JRJoe Rogan15:17

       ... figured it out on their own. The Lion's Den did it-
7. 18:49 – 23:05

   Jon Jones’ heavyweight transition, injury risk, and fighting intelligence in the clinch

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:49

      Have you ever had an injury like that, where it's torn off the bone?

   2. DCDaniel Cormier18:52

      No. It was a very odd injury for me to watch, too, because it didn't seem like it was like... Like, you know grappling, wrestling, we get extended a lot. Right? Like, so when you're going and you're doing your jujitsu, and you and I are going, and you take... And I'm... You're in half guard, right? Every time I go to get up, I build to my elbow, I get to my underhook, I'll take a single leg. You'll sprawl because you gotta take your leg away from me. When I'm up on my elbow, and I get to my half guard, and I'm on the butt here, I will always go to a single becom- 'cause I'm a wrestler. You will sprawl, then try to go back behind me. My arm gets extended every time. And that's kinda what happened with Jones. It's like he was in an underhook and the guy sprawled a little bit, and then his bo- arm came away from his body, and it ripped. And it's, it's unfortunate, but...

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:42

      Do you think that, um... I know Jon has been doing a lot of heavy lifting-

   4. DCDaniel Cormier19:48

      Yep.

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:48

      ... to get up to heavyweight.

   6. DCDaniel Cormier19:50

      That, and the extra weight, right?

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:51

      Yeah.

   8. DCDaniel Cormier19:51

      He's carrying all that extra weight. He's lifting all that weight. And it's like, you gotta develop muscle, but it's gotta be usable muscle.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:57

      Mm-hmm.

   10. DCDaniel Cormier19:58

       You can't just be big.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       Well, the other thing is if, if you're not doing anything, like if you're not taking anything, then your recovery from, like, really heavy power lifts-

   12. DCDaniel Cormier20:08

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan20:08

       ... is kinda significant.

   14. DCDaniel Cormier20:10

       Didn't he lift, like, 600 pounds or some crazy shit?

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:12

       Oh, my gosh, he's strong.

   16. DCDaniel Cormier20:13

       Like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:13

       He's strong as fuck.

   18. DCDaniel Cormier20:13

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:14

       He's strong as fuck. He looks very big now. Like, he looks like a heavyweight.

   20. DCDaniel Cormier20:18

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:18

       But I just wonder, how much weight lifting do you have to do to maintain that frame?

   22. DCDaniel Cormier20:22

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:22

       You know?

   24. DCDaniel Cormier20:22

       Well, he was strong.

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:24

       He, he was always strong.

   26. DCDaniel Cormier20:24

       When we fought, he was strong. Like, he was strong.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:27

       Yeah.

   28. DCDaniel Cormier20:27

       Leverage. Great with his leverage. Dude, the w- the way he was able to manipulate positions... Because I thought, without a shadow of a doubt, that I would take him down at will. But it's hard. Even if he get a take-down, it's hard against the best guys. I picked Stipe up, I threw him down, held him down for the whole first round. And then he got up because we got to start again. So now I gotta start that process all over again. And that's why Khabib Nurmagomedov was so special, because it didn't matter how many times he had to restart the process, he went right back to doing that with his opponent, knowing that he was gonna throw you to the ground. So when you're fighting guys like Jones, he's so tall, he's so rangy, and he just understood fighting. The guy just understands fighting.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:14

       Hmm.

   30. DCDaniel Cormier21:15

       And it makes him hard to deal with. And then, Joe, when you get in a clinch with this dude, he's so tall that it's almost like you're holding him up, if you're the shorter fighter. He's, like, draping over the top of you. And that is what fatigues you. Because when I'm clinching, you know I fought there a ton, like ju- in the clinch, punch, punch, punch. I'm trying to break your posture. He doesn't do that. He pushes you against the octagon, and then he leans. So now you're carrying 220 with your weight up against the octagon. And it's like... And then he's changing levels, and he's spinning trying to elbow you. He, the dude just understands fighting and understands how to maneuver his body-
8. 23:05 – 31:05

   Alex Pereira as the "Thanos" of MMA: leg-kick mechanics, size, and the wrestling question

   1. DCDaniel Cormier23:05

      It hurts, like it hurts. Alex Pereira kick my leg, I was like, "This shit hurts."

   2. JRJoe Rogan23:10

      That dude has the weirdest leg kicks.

   3. DCDaniel Cormier23:12

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan23:13

      They're so sneaky.

   5. DCDaniel Cormier23:15

      My cousin had the great-

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:16

      He's so clever at it.

   7. DCDaniel Cormier23:17

      My cousin had the greatest analogy for Pereira. He goes, "He is Thanos." Literally just collecting fucking stones-

   8. JRJoe Rogan23:28

      (laughs)

   9. DCDaniel Cormier23:28

      ... Infinity Stones. He's like (laughs) -

   10. JRJoe Rogan23:29

       (laughs)

   11. DCDaniel Cormier23:30

       ... he said, he goes, "I love Marvel." He goes, "It was like when Thanos showed up."

   12. JRJoe Rogan23:34

       Yeah.

   13. DCDaniel Cormier23:35

       "And he's just collecting Infinity Stones. There's a timeline. You know, there's a bad guy, bad guy, and then there's this ultimate bad guy, who is just in some fucking bar in Brazil, and then Izzy had to open his mouth." (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:51

       (laughs) Isn't that crazy?

   15. DCDaniel Cormier23:52

       If Izzy just shut the fuck up, he would've stayed where he was.

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:57

       Oh, my god.

   17. DCDaniel Cormier23:57

       But I mean, it's like a delayed, it's like a delayed reaction on the kick. But if Izzy would've just shut up, this dude would've stayed in Brazil.

   18. JRJoe Rogan24:05

       That dude is so sneaky with that kick.

   19. DCDaniel Cormier24:08

       And if you get too close, he's gonna punch you.

   20. JRJoe Rogan24:10

       Yeah. Well, he's so long and he's s- also so odd in his striking movements.

   21. DCDaniel Cormier24:16

       His movem- He's, like, this tall-

   22. JRJoe Rogan24:16

       Yeah.

   23. DCDaniel Cormier24:17

       He's tall.

   24. JRJoe Rogan24:17

       They're very odd.

   25. DCDaniel Cormier24:18

       And he's like, and if you get close, it's the right hand. Even that thing he does when he's walking out and he does this little thing-

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:24

       Yeah.

   27. DCDaniel Cormier24:24

       ... and he throws this combination.

   28. JRJoe Rogan24:26

       Yeah.

   29. DCDaniel Cormier24:26

       It doesn't look fluid. He's like, boom, boom, boom. But you know, like, if that dude hits you with that, you're going to sleep.

   30. JRJoe Rogan24:32

       You go to sleep. Everybody goes asleep.
9. 31:05 – 41:16

   Weight cutting reality: morning vs afternoon weigh-ins, sauna routines, and IV rehydration

   1. DCDaniel Cormier31:05

      Do you, did you... What do you think... As a fighter, I actually liked the afternoon weigh-in better. I liked the afternoon weigh-in opposed to the morning weigh-in.

   2. JRJoe Rogan31:16

      Why is that?

   3. DCDaniel Cormier31:17

      More time and sleep. Sleep. The night before, you got to sleep. Because if you woke up at 7:00, 8:00 over, you had all day Friday to make the weight. On fight day.

   4. JRJoe Rogan31:29

      Yeah, 219 on fight day. (laughs)

   5. DCDaniel Cormier31:30

      That's cr- come on, man. (laughs) That's 25 pounds, bro. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan31:34

      That's so big.

   7. DCDaniel Cormier31:35

      That's 25 pounds. That's cr-

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:38

      It's re- it's really nuts.

   9. DCDaniel Cormier31:39

      But again, that's because they have so much time though. Because if he weighs in at 11:00 AM on, on Friday morning, now he's got 24 hours. Now he's got... He's in the main event, so this dude is not fighting for probably about 35 hours after he steps on the scale. You can gain 25 pounds in 35 hours.

   10. JRJoe Rogan32:00

       I think that's 35 pounds, right?

   11. DCDaniel Cormier32:02

       That's 35 pounds?

   12. JRJoe Rogan32:04

       35 pounds. 35 pounds. Yeah.

   13. DCDaniel Cormier32:05

       That's 35 pounds in-

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:08

       That's bananas.

   15. DCDaniel Cormier32:09

       ... in a day. Think about that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:10

       35 pounds is insane.

   17. DCDaniel Cormier32:12

       I can't-

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:12

       Think of 35 steaks.

   19. DCDaniel Cormier32:13

       I actually, I actually can't... I can't, I can't add 35-

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:16

       Just think of 35 steaks stacked up.

   21. DCDaniel Cormier32:17

       (laughs) And that's what you eat.

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:19

       And then you take that out of your body.

   23. DCDaniel Cormier32:21

       That's what you... Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:22

       (laughs)

   25. DCDaniel Cormier32:23

       I mean, it would be up to here.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:25

       Yeah, 35 steaks.

   27. DCDaniel Cormier32:26

       35 steaks would be up to there.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:27

       That's insane.

   29. DCDaniel Cormier32:28

       That's 16-ounce steaks.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:29

       That's insane.
10. 41:16 – 43:33

    Injuries after fighting: back surgery, rehab ideas, and peptides as recovery tools

    1. DCDaniel Cormier41:16

       If it could help my back. I, I need, (laughs) I need something to help my...

    2. JRJoe Rogan41:19

       Yeah.

    3. DCDaniel Cormier41:19

       My back is just messed up, man. The whole-

    4. JRJoe Rogan41:21

       After the surgeries?

    5. DCDaniel Cormier41:22

       The, ugh. The life in wrestling-

    6. JRJoe Rogan41:24

       Mm-hmm.

    7. DCDaniel Cormier41:25

       ... the surgery after the Derrick Lewis fight. You told me, you said, "Dude, you gotta do this." And I never got a... I just... I went and got a, uh, a regular back surgery, and I shouldn't have did that. I should've went and did something a little different.

    8. JRJoe Rogan41:37

       Yeah.

    9. DCDaniel Cormier41:37

       Back surgery screws you. You're done if your back goes out-

    10. JRJoe Rogan41:41

        Yeah.

    11. DCDaniel Cormier41:41

        ... in fighting. It's over. Can't train the same.

    12. JRJoe Rogan41:44

        No, there's been a few guys that have had discs replaced.

    13. DCDaniel Cormier41:46

        Yeah. That's what I did. My back was... And now-

    14. JRJoe Rogan41:48

        Did you get it replaced?

    15. DCDaniel Cormier41:49

        No, no.

    16. JRJoe Rogan41:50

        With a fake one? Or did they fuse it?

    17. DCDaniel Cormier41:52

        No. Just to fuse it. Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan41:53

        Yeah.

    19. DCDaniel Cormier41:53

        My back is just jacked though, bro.

    20. JRJoe Rogan41:55

        Mm-hmm.

    21. DCDaniel Cormier41:55

        Like, it's so bad. Some days I wake up, I'm like, "This is crazy."

    22. JRJoe Rogan41:58

        You ever see, uh, Diamond Dallas Page?

    23. DCDaniel Cormier42:01

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan42:02

        You see his yoga program that he developed?

    25. DCDaniel Cormier42:03

        I heard it's really good.

    26. JRJoe Rogan42:04

        It's really good. And he did-

    27. DCDaniel Cormier42:05

        You've tried it?

    28. JRJoe Rogan42:06

        I've done a lot of his exercises.

    29. DCDaniel Cormier42:07

        Wow.

    30. JRJoe Rogan42:08

        And, um, he s- developed it specifically for guys that are, like, coming off of pro wrestling and their body's all beat up.
11. 43:33 – 50:32

    Fouls, rules, and incentives: Aljamain Sterling, Anthony Smith, and "what’s the right move?"

    1. JRJoe Rogan43:33

       Aljamain's story about getting his disc replaced and come back and then defending the title against Petr Yan is pretty wild.

    2. DCDaniel Cormier43:38

       The neck?

    3. JRJoe Rogan43:39

       That's pretty wild.

    4. DCDaniel Cormier43:40

       That was a bad h- that's a bad ... Anytime you start doing stuff with the neck.

    5. JRJoe Rogan43:43

       Oh, yeah.

    6. DCDaniel Cormier43:44

       Kevin Jackson was an Olympic gold medalist, and when his neck went, he couldn't beat the best young guys because it's too damaging, right? You're getting punched and you're getting your head pulled down. Everything you do, you gotta have strength in your neck.

    7. JRJoe Rogan44:02

       Yeah.

    8. DCDaniel Cormier44:02

       He never could, he never could do it. But, but for Aljo to not only come back from the surgery, but beat the guy that was ... He was, he was dog walking Aljo. Tha- that first fight, he was kicking his ass. And he came back against that same guy and beat him. And did it in a way that for as much as people say ... 'Cause people just don't like Aljamain, right? Because he fell and the way that the fight ended, he won that second fight. He dominated in the second round and he won three rounds of that fight. It's that simple. But he's an impressive athlete, but he's not a dude that kinda ... He doesn't really get people to really come to support him. It's, it's very weird. It's a hard one.

    9. JRJoe Rogan44:48

       I think it's, it's because of the way he won the title by disqualification. People hate that.

    10. DCDaniel Cormier44:53

        They said he fell down and they ...

    11. JRJoe Rogan44:54

        Nah, he got fouled.

    12. DCDaniel Cormier44:56

        It was a bad one too.

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:57

        It was a bad one. It was a knee to the face, on the ground. It's a foul.

    14. DCDaniel Cormier45:02

        It was a foul?

    15. JRJoe Rogan45:02

        It was a clear foul.

    16. DCDaniel Cormier45:03

        But is he supposed to get up? Like that's the thing, right? Like-

    17. JRJoe Rogan45:06

        It depends if he's concussed. If he's concussed, he shouldn't get up. If-

    18. DCDaniel Cormier45:10

        Anthony Smith.

    19. JRJoe Rogan45:11

        Yeah.

    20. DCDaniel Cormier45:12

        Anthony Smith.

    21. JRJoe Rogan45:12

        Yeah. He could've been the champ.

    22. DCDaniel Cormier45:14

        Right ... Okay.

    23. JRJoe Rogan45:15

        Yeah.

    24. DCDaniel Cormier45:15

        So, do you get up or do you kinda go, "Man, this ..." (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan45:21

        Well, let me-

    26. DCDaniel Cormier45:21

        He, his shit's going sideways right now because he was down four rounds to zero.

    27. JRJoe Rogan45:24

        Yeah.

    28. DCDaniel Cormier45:25

        Anthony Smith was sitting there and ... I don't know him. I know him, but I don't know what was in his mind. But there had to be a moment in there-

    29. JRJoe Rogan45:34

        (laughs)

    30. DCDaniel Cormier45:36

        (laughs) Right? Where Anthony went ... Diego Sanchez did it. Remember Diego did it at 10, in, uh, (laughs) Diego did it in Phoenix. He was losing to, uh, one of the Brazilian guys and he got fouled. Diego's on the ground like, "29, 28. He's winning. Yep, I'm out." Diego's like, "I'm out. Take my dub, I'm good." Anthony Smith, and if he stays down, right, Joe? He wins the belt, he fights Jones again. Now, he's on the pay-per-view portion of it, gets paid more money. Even if he loses that belt, he got paid pay-per-view as the champ. Otherwise, you get told, "You're a beast for standing up." Right? But then you lose, they, the UFC moved on. Jon Jones just fought somebody else. He could've guaranteed himself another fight.
12. 50:32 – 58:42

    Boxing vs MMA danger + crossover shocks: Fury–Ngannou, combat counts, and recovery myths

    1. DCDaniel Cormier50:32

       That's why boxing, right? People always kind of scoff at me when I say boxing is more dangerous than MMA. "Oh, how could you say that when they're only boxing and they're using their hands, and they jump on you and they hit you on the ground when you fall?" I said, "I will argue with you that that's safer than you knocking me out." Bang. My body, which has been trained my whole life to get up, gets up, they count to eight or nine, and they say, "Go back and fight more." When I'm still concussed. You have hit me so hard that you have knocked me down to the ground. Right? I get up and then you continue to punch me in the head until, one, I either fall down again and go to sleep completely, or we get to the end of the round where you come back and you punch me in the head again. In MMA, when you get knocked out, or kicked in the head, or whatever the case may be, the guy jumps on you, boom, boom, fight's over. Fight's over. I don't have that recovery time to where I think my brain is okay. I go fight more, and then I get destroyed more.

    2. JRJoe Rogan51:40

       Mm-hmm.

    3. DCDaniel Cormier51:40

       I think boxing is a much more brutal sport, and I love boxing, than mixed martial arts, because of that. Because of that 10-second count-

    4. JRJoe Rogan51:48

       Hmm.

    5. DCDaniel Cormier51:48

       ... to kind of clear the cobwebs, or at least think you're clearing the cobwebs, and then go out there and get fight, and fight again. Think about it.

    6. JRJoe Rogan51:55

       Yeah.

    7. DCDaniel Cormier51:55

       How fast... In that 10 seconds, in most MMA fights, when someone gets hurt to the point that they fall, that fight's over. Two seconds? Three seconds? The guy jumps on them. If me and Stipe Miocic were fighting, right? I knock him down, and then I hit him with the two follow-up shots to end the fight. I would like to see how long that sequence took, because if Stipe Miocic and I were fighting, and I did that to him in boxing, for as n- bad as he was, he would get up and I would get to hit him again. Just like, my knockdown on Stipe was no worse than when Deontay Wilder dropped Tyson Fury. Tyson Fury looked like a dead man walking. But because he's so tough, he sat himself up, got up and continued to fight.

    8. JRJoe Rogan52:40

       That was one of the craziest recoveries ever.

    9. DCDaniel Cormier52:42

       How?

    10. JRJoe Rogan52:43

        How?

    11. DCDaniel Cormier52:43

        How?

    12. JRJoe Rogan52:44

        12th round.

    13. DCDaniel Cormier52:45

        (laughs)

    14. JRJoe Rogan52:45

        You look like you're out cold-

    15. DCDaniel Cormier52:47

        He was done.

    16. JRJoe Rogan52:47

        ... and then he outboxed him for the rest of the round.

    17. DCDaniel Cormier52:49

        How? But again, in MMA, fight probably would have been over.

    18. JRJoe Rogan52:53

        Probably.

    19. DCDaniel Cormier52:53

        And he would've took less damage.

    20. JRJoe Rogan52:55

        Right. But isn't that a better argument for letting him get up?

    21. DCDaniel Cormier52:59

        Ah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan52:59

        Because Tyson Fury got up and then figured out how to beat Deontay Wilder-

    23. DCDaniel Cormier53:03

        Yes.

    24. JRJoe Rogan53:03

        ... in the second fight.

    25. DCDaniel Cormier53:04

        But he was, but figured it out-

    26. JRJoe Rogan53:06

        Yeah.

    27. DCDaniel Cormier53:06

        ... and was able to beat him as they went on. But in that fight, on that night, all it would have taken was for Wilder to land one more. But in, in boxing, again, you get the hold, you get the pull in tight, there's a few seconds. But very rarely do we see it happen like it happened for Tyson Fury.

    28. JRJoe Rogan53:20

        Right.

    29. DCDaniel Cormier53:20

        We see it on the other side of the spectrum when they get up and they get flat-lined.

    30. JRJoe Rogan53:24

        Yeah.
13. 58:42 – 1:06:36

    Internet rabbit holes: animals, eagles, and morbid/true-crime fascination

    1. DCDaniel Cormier58:42

       I saw a video today on Twitter 'cause I was in the middle ... I was in this fighter meeting, and, uh, I don't know, they were just kinda having a conversation like they were done talking about the fight. So I kinda got on my phone, and I started playing on Twitter. And I was watching a, another w- website I watch. It's called Morbid Knowledge. Oh, dude.

    2. JRJoe Rogan59:00

       What is this one?

    3. DCDaniel Cormier59:00

       Bro, Morbid Knowledge.

    4. JRJoe Rogan59:02

       (laughs)

    5. DCDaniel Cormier59:02

       It's crazy, br- ... I'm, I'm fucked up, Joe. Like, I, I get bored, and it, eh, just popped up on my Twitter, and there were two airplanes. They were ... These people were, like, jumping outta the plane. The planes crashed. You could hear somebody go, "Oh, no!" And then they fall off the, uh, off the, uh-

    6. JRJoe Rogan59:20

       Wing?

    7. DCDaniel Cormier59:20

       ... wing.

    8. JRJoe Rogan59:21

       (laughs)

    9. DCDaniel Cormier59:21

       But they're all wearing parachutes because they were gonna go an- and jump. But, I mean, these two planes came together, and then hearing a person go, "Oh, no," was crazy. But Morbid Knowledge is nuts. It's like it says, like, it'll show, like, an X-ray of a person that might've gotten into a bad accident or something. I- it showed a, a picture one time, Joe, of a person whose body, they X-rayed the body when they had been hit by a train.

    10. JRJoe Rogan59:48

        Oh.

    11. DCDaniel Cormier59:48

        Dude, it was crazy. The ribcage and everything, Joe, was-

    12. JRJoe Rogan59:52

        Oh.

    13. DCDaniel Cormier59:52

        It was crazy. I don't know where it popped up on my thing, but once I saw it, I was like, "Oh, man," I ... Dude, they got a guy, they had a guy back in, like, the '30s. Bro, he was a big cat hunter. That was a bad son of gun. And he was hunting with those old-school guns. You know those old-school guns where-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

        Right.

    15. DCDaniel Cormier1:00:09

        Dude, this dude, they had, like, a fucking lion or a cheetah was just r- killing people in this village in Africa or in England. I mean, they were ki- ... It was killing. It was a man-eater. It's called the man-eater or something. So this guy would hunt. They brought this old dude from Europe down there to track this, this animal. This dude tracked this animal between three different, like, cities in this area and finally got that son of a gun because he shot it. And it was trying to attack him to kill him. He was running out of bu- ... It sounded like a movie, but it had this whole story. Morbid Knowledge, I'm telling you.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:44

        Whoa.

    17. DCDaniel Cormier1:00:44

        Go listen to it. Like, look at it. Some of it's kinda gross, but some of it's, like, pretty intriguing. Like-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:49

        Isn't that one that, what that movie was based on, The Ghost and the Darkness?

    19. DCDaniel Cormier1:00:53

        Oh, my god, did you see that?

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

        That's a great movie.

    21. DCDaniel Cormier1:00:55

        What a crazy movie. (laughs)

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

        It's a great movie, man.

    23. DCDaniel Cormier1:00:57

        But-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

        There's nothing scarier than lions hunting people.

    25. DCDaniel Cormier1:00:59

        Oh, my god.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:00

        Just a lion waiting for you.

    27. DCDaniel Cormier1:01:01

        I can't ha- ... I ca- ... I, I watch them even if they're a little bit, like, corny because I'm like-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

        Oh.

    29. DCDaniel Cormier1:01:05

        ... "Oh, this is crazy." That's what it was called.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:08

        Oh, yeah.
14. 1:06:36 – 1:41:39

    Dagestan’s rise, elite wrestling pipelines, and building fearless athletes

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:06:36

       But how crazy has it been watching all these dudes from Dagestan-

    2. DCDaniel Cormier1:06:39

       Oh my God.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:06:40

       ... just invade MMA-

    4. DCDaniel Cormier1:06:41

       I knew it.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:06:41

       ... and dominate?

    6. DCDaniel Cormier1:06:42

       I knew it because in wrestling they've been around. So I was like, when I, when I was about to start fighting and when I started fighting, I said, "Man, when these Russian dudes from these regions start to come, it's gonna be a problem." Because you know how good they were as wrestlers, right? What's gonna happen when these guys come into fighting?

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:07:03

       Right, learn striking.

    8. DCDaniel Cormier1:07:04

       And it's the same thing. You know, we were talking about the back, like, Alexander Karelin. I looked at that picture and I go, "Hey, that was a bad dude, just a monster."

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:07:13

       Monster.

    10. DCDaniel Cormier1:07:14

        A monster.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:07:15

        Monster.

    12. DCDaniel Cormier1:07:15

        And there have been a many of them, Buvacar Sketeles, uh, all these great-... Russian athletes that are just crazy. There was one guy that beat me in the Olympic semifinals. His name is Khajimurat Gatsalov. We're lucky that son of a bitch didn't fight 'cause he would've beat everybody, and Jon Jones included. Every one of them would've gotten their ass whooped by that dude.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:07:34

        Really?

    14. DCDaniel Cormier1:07:35

        He was good, bro. He was... He wrestled me at the Olympic Games and he beat all of us, though. He beat me, he beat Cael Sanderson, he beat Kyle Snyder. He beat all the best Americans for a long time. He wrestled from my Olympic cycle, all the way to Kyle Snyder who won the 2020 Olympic Games. That guy beat him. This dude was so fast, he was so good, I brought him in to train with me for Jon Jones. My strength coach told me he would try to break him. He said, "Daniel, I would try to break this guy." He goes, "I would give him all of my workouts." He goes, "And then I would add just to try to see how far he would go." He said, "No matter what I did, he never stopped, he never got tired." And he goes, "He always wanted to do more. He never questioned anything." And that dude, that's why the dude is like a six-time world champion, Olympic champ and everything. He was the best, man. And we're just lucky he didn't fight 'cause all of us would have no accomplishments. He was that good.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:08:38

        Do you have any video of this dude?

    16. DCDaniel Cormier1:08:39

        His name is Gatsalov, G-A-T-S-A-L-O-V. He was good, man. He was so fast. He was so strong. His motion, his movement, these dudes were... I knew that if guys like that started fighting, they would be a problem. And that's exactly what they've become. I mean, look at him. This is the guy right here. It's him. We were training. This dude was just hitting me with all kinds of stuff. I actually, like... I mean, and, and we're sweating, too. He just never stopped, bro. The guy was just tremendous in everything he did. So, I would have to set my mind every day going into the room like I was about to wrestle in the Olympic Games 'cause I knew how hard it would be to try to go with this cat. Then he would be beating on these dudes in MMA. He'd take th- against the wall like it was impossible to take him down.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:09:34

        Hmm.

    18. DCDaniel Cormier1:09:34

        And we... And I mean, but look at this, though, Joe. Everybody would just watch. Dude taking me down. (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:09:44

        (laughs)

    20. DCDaniel Cormier1:09:44

        They got the UFC cameras out. I'm like, "Yo, cut that, cut that, cut that."

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:09:46

        Wow.

    22. DCDaniel Cormier1:09:47

        I'm like, "Cut it, cut it, cut it."

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:09:48

        Oh, this is some wild scrambles.

    24. DCDaniel Cormier1:09:49

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:09:49

        Oh, you got him?

    26. DCDaniel Cormier1:09:50

        I got one, but that was like... That's probably the only one I got for a month.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:09:55

        (laughs)

    28. DCDaniel Cormier1:09:56

        (laughs) And then at times, I thought he might be letting me... I'm like, "Yo, are you letting me score, man? 'Cause I wrestled you in competition and I ain't never scored." (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:10:04

        (laughs)

    30. DCDaniel Cormier1:10:04

        But, I mean, he was just too good, Joe. I mean, he beat me in Olympic semifinals. He beat everybody.

Episode duration: 2:29:23