JRE MMA Show #153 with Joe Pyfer

Joe sits down with Joe Pyfer, a professional mixed martial artist competing in the Middleweight division of the UFC. www.ufc.com/athlete/joe-pyfer

Joe Roganhost

Jun 27, 20242h 39mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,005 words

0:00 – 3:19
Pyfer breaks Ngannou’s punch machine record: what the numbers mean
1. NANarrator
  (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  The Joe Rogan Experience.
3. JPJoe Pyfer
  Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) What up? What up? What's up, Joe? What's up, Joe?
4. NANarrator
  (laughs)
5. JRJoe Rogan
  So, we should say right away, off the bat, 'cause people don't know, you really did break Francis Ngannou's punch record.
6. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, so, uh, I don't know what the confusion is. You know, I- I- I didn't wanna-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  A lot of people are- th- th- they doubt it just 'cause he's so big.
8. JPJoe Pyfer
  So, I'm gonna post it, uh-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, we just sent it to Jamie.
10. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  You sent one where you broke ... you went to 170.
12. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, one ... yeah, 170.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  So, y- let's see this one.
14. JPJoe Pyfer
  So, you got Eddie Hall.
15. NANarrator
  Yeah, there you go.
16. (laughs)
17. Josh, what's the world record? I think I've got the tape.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  And he got 113. And Francis-
19. NANarrator
  An amazing result and credits to horsepower of the platform.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  ... had gotten 129.
21. NANarrator
  We're trying to break Ngannou's record right now.
22. JPJoe Pyfer
  I had already hit (laughs) four times. (machine clanks)
23. NANarrator
  Whoo!
24. JPJoe Pyfer
  Smashed it.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  170.
26. JPJoe Pyfer
  Now, the only thing that ... so, this is the thing that people don't understand though, is, it- it's the same machine. I think everybody thought it was, like, one of those punching bags that are down at the- the boardwalk.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Right. Right.
28. JPJoe Pyfer
  And, uh, you know, it- it- it's aggravating because I pride myself in my power. I- I- I wanna hurt you, you know what I mean? Like, that's my intention. I'm trying to ... I- I mean-
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Clearly.
30. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... we all throw with power, right? But-
3:19 – 4:48
Power: ‘natural’ vs earned, and why big hitters break their hands
1. JPJoe Pyfer
  It's really, I mean, some people, I ... It's weird, you know, for me because a lot of people think I have natural power, and I get annoyed with it because I've, I've never had anything natural in my life. I, you know, everything was difficult. Learning it, learning jujitsu, learning how to box, you know, everything was hard for me to learn. So, I have a bitter chip on my shoulder when people are like trying to discredit it with natural power. I don't know, but-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  W- there's a ... there is a thing though, where there's, uh, there's, like, you could unlock horsepower in a human being, but you only have so much when it comes to power. There's certain people, and I think you've all... we've all seen them, they just don't hit hard-
3. JPJoe Pyfer
  No.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  ... for whatever reason.
5. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  And they look big. They can look strong. And then there's certain guys that, for whatever reason, they fucking hit crazy hard, and they're not that big. And a lot of it is efficiency and fluidity in the technique and the leverage. And that's all learned, right? But there's, like, a certain thing to, like, bone structure and just natural power.
7. JPJoe Pyfer
  My bones gotta be trash, Joe, 'cause I'm-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
9. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... fucking having two surgeries and being beat up.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  I just think it's the amount of power that you generate. I mean, that's probably a lot of it too, you know?
11. JPJoe Pyfer
  It's probably a corny thing to say, but I was told that I almost generate too much force for my bone density to handle. Um, I don't know how true that is. I don't know if they were just kinda-
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Kinda makes sense.
13. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... stroking my ego, but-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it makes sense. That's why your hands break.
15. JPJoe Pyfer
  Right.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  When- when people's hands break, that's why they break, 'cause you're literally generating too much force for your bone structure.
17. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, man, my hands would be all-
4:48 – 8:39
Pyfer’s UFC performances and the mental state behind ‘leveling up’
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Dude, when you fought Razak Al Hassan, you are on ... there's like ... there's a thing that happens with fighters where you see them, you see anxiety, you see first fight, you see nerves, you see jitters, you see skills, but it's hard to, like, see the full range of them. And then they start getting comfortable. And when they start getting comfortable, like, uh, the Mirshakht fight, you just st- stomped him.
2. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  But the Razak Al Hassan fight, like, dude, you were on another level. Like, that's like ... when- when people talk about a guy in the gym, like, "Dude, you gotta see this motherfucker in the gym." And then, seeing that manifest itself inside the octagon, to me, that's one of my favorite things to see. I love watching guys show their potential, you know? And in that fight, Razak Al Hassan is a beast.
4. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, he's a dog.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  He's a dangerous dude. And you just put on a fucking show in that fight. You looked like you were on a completely different level, like you had gone up several rungs from where you were before.
6. JPJoe Pyfer
  You know what's crazy about it though? The- the whole process of what's gotten me to that point has been nothing shy of just, man, if I'm mentally happy, I'm gonna destroy everybody.... but I often struggle mentally, you know. Like, I, (laughs) bro, I didn't turn it on, my coaches were all scared in the back, um, just because they know me so well. I'm an emotional dude, I, I wear my heart on my sleeve, like I say how I feel. Um, you don't really have to read the room, you can read my face, you know what I mean? You understand where I'm at. And I'm not, I'm not shy to say where I'm at. So, uh, that whole week was off, uh, Sean wasn't in the corner, he got sick. I had some issues with a, with a best friend and I've known for 12, 13 years, he didn't get to come out and, and just ... I, everything was like off. I, I had, uh, I had MRSA on my bicep, on my forearm two weeks before-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, shit.
8. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... I was on, I had antibiotics before that I got in, uh, I split my toes open where they're separated, so the bone side, like, I could barely ... Like, it got all swollen. Bro, I've never had an easy camp and I was, I was having nightmares for the first time of getting knocked the fuck (laughs) out, like all week during my weight cut, during training. I had these crazy nerves, I would get cold sweats, like I thought something was wrong and, uh, I'd never had that before, you know? And I was contemplating like, "Man, I'm not gonna rush my career, maybe this isn't the right move." But, uh-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Was it the step up in competition?
10. JPJoe Pyfer
  No, no.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  What-
12. JPJoe Pyfer
  So, so this is crazy, it's gonna come off ... Well, it's not crazy, but it comes off as really arrogant, like Abdoul was not a step up in competition for me. He was a step up as far as, you know, power, you know, and, and people that I fought, uh, as far as, you know, people that have the ability to knock you out, you know?
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Consequences.
14. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, yeah. There was consequences for small error and, uh, but I knew skill for skill, dude's not on my level. I knew Jarrell Merchardt, Merchardt, Meershart, however you say it, whenever I ... Bro, I mean that dude to me without being disrespectful is ... I don't know how he's been in UFC, um, the guy I first fought, you know, he's not in UFC anymore, but he had eight knockouts. I'm not ... I've been doing this for 23 years, I started at four and a half years old, um, I don't want people to think that I'm cocky or arrogant, but I am. I am cocky, I'm confident, you know?
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Don't you think you kinda have to be?
16. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, you do have to be.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  You're, you're a fucking cage fighter.
18. JPJoe Pyfer
  It's your, it's your protection barrier too-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
20. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... from, from people to just openly try to cut you down 'cause everybody like, like hitting that punching machine, everybody immediately discredits, uh-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
22. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... says that Dana White just wants to get after Francis Ngannou that's why I didn't release the video. I told you at the Austin fight-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
24. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... I was pissed off it didn't get posted.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
26. JPJoe Pyfer
  You know what I mean? Like-
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it's posted now.
28. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah. So, uh, it's posted now and, you know, it's on a big platform, but yeah, man, I mean Abdoul was just somebody you had to be careful with, but I didn't think he boxed better than me and I think DC even says that as I'm walking into the cage and, uh, his best shot was to knock me out and if he couldn't knock me out, he wasn't winning that fight, so ...
8:39 – 11:27
Size at middleweight, Pereira talk, and the ‘off switch’ (chin/weight cut)
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it's also very evident, like you're one of those guys that's v- v- at the top of the 185 pound division in terms of like physical stature. You don't get much bigger at 185. It's like you and guys like Pereira which Pereira doesn't even make sense.
2. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Like I was always like, "How? How the fuck are you 185?"
4. JPJoe Pyfer
  (sighs) Man, uh, even when I look at ... Yeah, I mean when I look at him, like I've seen ... It's so weird, we've seen each other so many times there's no head nod, there's no respect, there's no like ... Uh, uh, even him, like man, I think a lot of guys are overrated in this fucking sport.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  You think that guy's overrated?
6. JPJoe Pyfer
  I mean, look, I don't think his pa-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
8. JPJoe Pyfer
  I think he, I think getting hit by him isn't overrated, right? But he's very stiff and he's got that off switch. He's got that off switch. What he definitely does at 85.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Well and Izzy, Izzy clipped him and he was-
10. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
12. JPJoe Pyfer
  At 85, I don't know about 205, but-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  I think that is a big part of the weight cut. I think his weight cut is borderline dangerous. Like I think that a weight cut to 85 could kill you.
14. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, it could kill him. Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. I think he's just so tough that he doesn't, but I think there's, there's a point of diminishing returns and certainly with your chin.
16. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  And when Izzy cracked him, obviously Izzy hit him perfect, it was pinpoint, and then rocked him with the second shot. But the way he went out, I was like-
18. JPJoe Pyfer
  It's, it's gone.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
20. JPJoe Pyfer
  It's almost like a ... You know, I, I'm not gonna say any names, but you know there, there's a guy that just recently lost who I like and it's like, man, like when you've had that off button shut off-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
22. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... to the point where you're frozen, it's not like he got TKO'd, it's off.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
24. JPJoe Pyfer
  Uh, I've-
25. JRJoe Rogan
  There's a thing that happens to guys when they've taken too many shots.
26. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  You, you could see it, but-
28. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah. I've never, I've never been laid out, um, last time I was ever dropped I was 18 years old, I got dropped by a guy that used to be in the UFC for a brief moment. Uh, it was Tim Williams (laughs) he fought your boy Eryk Anders-
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
30. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... uh, who I, I like, he's cool, but, uh, but yeah, no, I've never been ... I've never had the lights like shut off or anything, so thankful for that, but, uh, I pride myself on my defense too, you know what I mean? I don't-
11:27 – 17:02
Old-school MMA, TRT Vitor, and freak athletes (Yoel, Karelin, state programs)
1. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... because I'm a huge fan of the old school days.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
3. JPJoe Pyfer
  More so than the, the new school. Um, I just think it was more raw and just like there ... Like I liked when everybody was on 'roids.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
5. JPJoe Pyfer
  You know everybody was on 'roids, but that's exactly the stipulation, right? You know we're so hard on the athletes of today-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
7. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... they pop for something that's not even a performance ha- performance enhancing level-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
9. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... but these guys had their reign and were never discredited but we know they were all on shit.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Right. Well, I always talk about TRT Vitor. You know T- I think TRT Vitor-
11. JPJoe Pyfer
  The best.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  The Vitor that fucked up Luke Rockhold-
13. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and Michael Bisping, that dude I'd put him up against anybody ever.
15. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  He was, he was fucking terrifying, but he was also like-... silverback gorilla levels of testosterone.
17. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  He was, like, off the charts. (laughs) Like, when they tested him, one of the reasons why they stopped TRT is 'cause they tested Vitor one time, and he was so far off the charts, they were like, "What the fuck are you doing?" (laughs) And he had said that, you know, he was gonna be in America for, like, a week, and so the doctor just gave him a big dose to, like, last for the week.
19. JPJoe Pyfer
  Mm-hmm.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  I just think he-
21. JPJoe Pyfer
  Look at him next to you. (laughs) He looks-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, man.
23. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... almost the same size.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, Yoel Romero-
25. JPJoe Pyfer
  I'm a huge fan of Yoel Romero, by the way.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yoel Romero is the freak of all freaks. And I've said this many times before on this podcast, but, uh, he is the single most impressive athlete I have ever seen in all my years of watching fights.
27. JPJoe Pyfer
  How old is he? 44 now?
28. JRJoe Rogan
  He's at least 44. He might be 45, 46.
29. JPJoe Pyfer
  Oh, man. Yeah, Juice- Juice-Vietor was, was the bomb, though. 100%.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Yoel didn't even need juice, man. He was a part of the Cuban athletic program. And there's something about that dude, whether it's genetics or who knows what it is, but I- I've told this before, so I apologize for anybody who's heard this, the UFC had brought him to a doctor after one of his fights, I think it was one of his fights in Australia. And the doctor said to the UFC, "Where did you get this guy?" And he go, and he, and they were like, "Uh, he's one of our fighters." He said, "I've never seen anything like him." He goes, "Yeah, he's pretty amazing, right?" He goes, "No, you don't understand. I've never seen a human being like him." The tendons in his eyes are three times larger than normal. They said that his, his orbital bone, when it fractured, by the time they got him to the doctor, like, couple days later, it already started healing. Like, this guy's a fucking wolverine.
17:02 – 19:42
Doping at scale: the Icarus story and Olympic sample swapping
1. JRJoe Rogan
  documentary?
2. JPJoe Pyfer
  Mm-mm.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a great documentary by Bryan Fogel about, um ... I've talked about this recently. Uh, I apologize to people who listened, but the, uh, Bryan Fogel, what he was gonna do is he, he did a, a bike race and he did a bike race natural, and he's, uh, a very good athlete, uh, uh, endurance athlete. So he did this bike race natural, and then he went to this guy who's the head of the Soviet anti-doping program, and he said, uh, "This is what I wanna do. I wanna do it natural one year, and then the next year, I want you to just juice me up to the tits."
4. JPJoe Pyfer
  Hmm.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  "And we're gonna do a documentary and see how I do juiced versus natural." In the process of filming all this, it, uh, it got released that the Sochi Olympics were rigged. And so what Russia was doing was, uh, they put a hole in the wall where the urine samples were, and they were swapping urine samples. So they're taking the dirty urine samples from their athletes, 'cause it was in Russia. So they're taking the dirty urine samples from their athletes and swapping it out for clean urine samples. But they got caught because they found these micro scratches on these jars that were supposedly impossible to open, and that these, like, impenetrable jars that they stored the urine in to make it secure. But then they did an analysis on the jar and they said that, like, "Somebody's been fucking with these jars." And so then they analyzed the urine, and then the whole house of cards came tumbling down while this guy was doing this documentary. And this guy, what was his name? Grigory Rodchenko? Was that his name?
6. JPJoe Pyfer
  I think-...kov.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Rodchenkov. That gentleman, who is the head of the Soviet doping program, got in the witness protection program, and then spilled the beans on the Soviet Union. He's hiding in America now. I mean, they arrested his family. They took away his family's money. Like, they- they fucked his whole family up. Like, it's- it- the whole- the story is crazy. But he detailed everything that they do as far as their doping program. And they doped everybody. They dope everybody except figure skaters.
8. JPJoe Pyfer
  Damn.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  That's the dude. Uh, Grigory Rodchenkov.
10. JPJoe Pyfer
  Definitely not what I was imaging. (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
12. JPJoe Pyfer
  Or picturing in my head. (laughs)
13. JRJoe Rogan
  He's hilarious. He's actually funny. But-
14. JPJoe Pyfer
  (coughs)
15. JRJoe Rogan
  ... it's- it's an amazing documentary. I can't recommend Icarus enough. But it just shows how far these countries are willing to go in order to gain, you know, national superiority by having their athletes gold medal more than anybody.
16. JPJoe Pyfer
  Power. It's the most addicting thing, right?
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
18. JPJoe Pyfer
  I mean-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  And it's also- it's, you know, it's national pride. There's a lot inv-... And they're all assuming that everybody else is doing this too because-
20. JPJoe Pyfer
  Everybody is on some shit.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, like-
22. JPJoe Pyfer
  Everybody's on some shit.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  There's- for sure, if they can get away with it, they cheat. Pe- there's so much, especially when it comes to things like the Olympics. There's so much shenanigans.
24. JPJoe Pyfer
  Because they'll never stop exploring, trying to find the easier route, you know?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Exactly.
19:42 – 22:02
Career-threatening injuries: broken arm, surgeries, screws, daily pain
1. JPJoe Pyfer
  Um, it's funny because a lot of people, uh, have said shit to me. And I'm like, "Listen, when I came back after I broke my arm, I was big before I broke my arm and then... But I was big in the wrong way. I was big in, like, a weightlifting way." Um-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  When did you break your arm?
3. JPJoe Pyfer
  2020 maybe.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  And how'd you do it?
5. JPJoe Pyfer
  Dustin Stoltzfus. I got Matt returned in a fucking Contender Series fight.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
7. JPJoe Pyfer
  Dislocated and broke backwards.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  And that's your right arm?
9. JPJoe Pyfer
  That's my right arm.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Big scar.
11. JPJoe Pyfer
  So I had one surgery. That's this scar. Uh, six months later, I joined my team, Marquez, where Sean's at, uh, and- and all the Philly guys. And then I had to six months again had to get another surgery and- another major surgery and-
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Same injury? Just reinjured it?
13. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah. So, uh, no. So I still had a torn forearm and I still- I had a whole bunch of bone growth behind. So I broke the radial head in half, uh, which is what you rotate. So I can rotate my hand, right, like this on my good arm, but I can't go any further than this because it's pinned. Uh-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  To this day?
15. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... I have screws in there. To this day, yeah.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, wow.
17. JPJoe Pyfer
  Um, and that's the straightest my arm goes. So-
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, wow.
19. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, so motherfuckers don't understand that this was... I h- I was given a 30% chance of being able to fight, you know, if I got the second surgery, uh-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  30%?
21. JPJoe Pyfer
  30%, uh, because of the nerve damage and not, like, having full functionality because there's a lot of nerves in there, um, especially where I got surgery and how much damage and inflammation and whatnot was in there. Um, so they had to cut the capsule and whatnot. So man, when I tell you, like, I'm gonna be hurting when I'm older, I'm gonna be hurting. I have pain every day and whatnot, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, I broke my arm in some bullshit fluke accident. Um, you know, I did get Matt returned. I should have let go of the head. I was gonna go for a guillotine.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
23. JPJoe Pyfer
  And then he lifted me. I didn't expect it, right? Post it out. Boom. Been that way a thousand times in practice.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
25. JPJoe Pyfer
  Never been hurt. And, uh, yeah, it ate me up, man. Ate me up. You know, they closed the ambulance doors and, you know, you don't get to say shit to Dana White. And all you get is a bunch of nerds that text you and say, "Hey, man, at least you got a couple million views. You're famous." And, you know, I lost sponsorships. I was depressed, suicidal, all that shit. And 20 years of my life, I think, at that point, um-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  So you were really concerned that that was the end?
27. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, I mean, look, Joe, I started this at four and a half years old, you know. I don't- I don't know how much you know, um, but, you know, I started this at four and a half years old and I haven't seen another path and this was my A and there was no B. So if A didn't work, that was it.
22:02 – 25:10
Early path: childhood training, amateur rules, and learning under pressure
1. JRJoe Rogan
  So at four and a half you knew you wanted to fight?
2. JPJoe Pyfer
  F- no, eight years old I knew I wanted to fight. Four and a half I started jujitsu. Five years old I did my first competition in Naga. Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, eight years old is... I started developing, like, a little bit of a confidence. I was so run down and abused that it- that was where my- my confidence started coming from, so... I never had a dream of the belt and I can say all these years, I've never had a dream of holding a belt, but I always had a dream of people chanting my name when I was walking out to a sold-out crowd. So that was always my dream and I always- I've always wanted that. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I was- I wasn't a kid that hung out with kids. You know, I was homeschooled and, um, yeah, there- it- there's a lot- there's a lot of detail to uncover in there. But, uh, but yeah, I mean, I've known I wanted to do this all my life. And (laughs) when I tell you there was no plan B, bro, there was no plan B, so-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  When did you have your first MMA fight? How old were you?
4. JPJoe Pyfer
  I was, uh, I think 20 years old. 20 years old. Uh, twen- yeah, 20 years old. Uh, actually, no, that's not true. Uh, yeah, it is true. 20 years old. I think it was 2017 was my first fight. Um, or 2016. One of those years.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  And amateur or-
6. JPJoe Pyfer
  Amateur.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  ... did you just-
8. JPJoe Pyfer
  So PA, I'm a PA boy at the time.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
10. JPJoe Pyfer
  Um, you have to have five amateurs before you could go pro.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, really?
12. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  That's the- the ru-
14. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  ... interesting.
16. JPJoe Pyfer
  That was the rule when I was fighting. Um, so you had to have five.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Is that still the rule?
18. JPJoe Pyfer
  Uh, I'm not sure. I think it is. Um, you definitely have to have amateur experience to be considered to get your pro license.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  What if you're, like, an amateur wrestler or something like that?
20. JPJoe Pyfer
  I'm not sure.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Does that translate into it?
22. JPJoe Pyfer
  I don't think so.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Interesting.
24. JPJoe Pyfer
  I don't- I think it's just that- I think it's just the way that the PA commission was with Greg Sir back then.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  It's not a bad idea.
26. JPJoe Pyfer
  So I went four and one as an amateur. Um, and I felt so held back with the- the bullshit shin guards, not being able to punch somebody in the face on the ground.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, that's how it is with amateurs?
28. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  You can't punch in the face of-
30. JPJoe Pyfer
  Can't punch in the face.
25:10 – 34:29
Childhood abuse revealed: violence, humiliation, and cutting ties with his father
1. JRJoe Rogan
  You talk about your abuse. Like, what, what exactly was the abuse?
2. JPJoe Pyfer
  I don't want to give the short version, right? You know.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
4. JPJoe Pyfer
  This is a moment right now that I get to recognize that I'm in front of somebody who has... You've heard so many stories, so many crazy things. And, you know, my story is definitely not up there with the crazy things, right? But my story, I'm unique. I'm one of one. So my story is, um, you know, I started out, uh... The abuse started when I was a year old. Um, my parents both blame each other. You know, child services in and out of our, our lives. I'm one of five kids. I got four sisters, two older, two younger. And, uh, I, yeah, I started getting beat as a, as a one-year-old, um, from what I was told is because I had shit myself, right? That's what kids, infants do. And, uh, so that's when it started. And, um-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Why you got beat for going to the bathroom?
6. JPJoe Pyfer
  Shitting my diaper, yeah.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Phew.
8. JPJoe Pyfer
  Uh, the story is, I shit my diaper, reached into my diaper, wiped on the walls, and then I got beat for it. Um, neither parent owns up to it, but both parents-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Phew.
10. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... have blamed each other, um, just because of the physical, physical abuse on, on my father's side, 100% has to be him. Um, my mom was not physically aggressive by nature, you know what I mean? She, she definitely whipped my ass, you know, uh, a good amount, but it was never with the mean intentions, uh, you know, comparable to my father. It was more verbal on her end. But, uh, but yeah, so it started then. And bro, since the time I've had memory, I remember getting my head stomped, getting beat, getting screamed at, slapped, like, humiliated, just run down, told, "You're never gonna be anything." And, uh, you know, my sisters received... unfortunately received the, uh, the same treatment. And, uh, yeah, so I mean, abuse has been something, and toxic, and I mean toxic. Like, when I wanna say, like, breaking somebody down, I didn't have an ounce of self-esteem. I was my dad's puppet. I didn't know no life being homeschooled. You do school, right? That...
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Is he still around?
12. JPJoe Pyfer
  Still living, yeah. Still living. Um, I'm not sure where. I've parted ways with him, and, uh, I don't want to talk to him. Next time I see him is probably, you know-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
14. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... when it's done. And, uh, I don't hate him, you know what I mean? I don't hate him, but, uh, I despise him as a human being as far as, you know, what he's given back to the world and, and the kind of person that he's accepted to be. Um, but yeah, I mean, yeah, he's still around. I just don't know where, and I don't really care where. So, uh, I know my mom still lives at the house that I grew up in, and...
15. JRJoe Rogan
  It's so hard to believe that some people are capable of becoming what they become, you know, and to do that to their child. It's so-
16. JPJoe Pyfer
  You know what's fucked up about it the most, is that it was almost better for me to have never known him than to know him and see how it went, and lose him. You know what I mean? Because I loved that man as a child. That was my idol. Nobody could beat him in the gym. Like, that was... That's what I thought. And I never thought he was a liar, you know, and then right around 15 years old, and I definitely think I was behind, you know what I mean? Socially. Um, just because of being homeschooled. So my dad wound up getting Social Security Disability, and he was a stay-at-home dad, you know what I mean? Collecting SSD and fucking doing nothing but beating his kids and screaming and sitting, basically just being, uh, you know, a child abuser to, to all of us, you know. And, and (clears throat) , never once has he ever taken accountability for the wrongs that he's done. Um, and if he's tried to finagle it, it's been to be like, "Hey, you were a bad kid."
17. JRJoe Rogan
  No.
18. JPJoe Pyfer
  It's like, "Yo, I wa- I wanna know, I wanna know how I was a bad kid." I didn't steal. Sure, I lied as a kid out of fear because I was afraid to get my head stomped or get beat like a man, you know. I didn't get... I didn't get a traditional ass whooping, Joe. (laughs) Like, neither did my sisters either. They got picked up by their necks, picked up by their hair, strangled, um-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
20. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... you know. And, uh-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
22. JPJoe Pyfer
  There's, there's many, there's many stories, you know. And as you know, we have a documentary, right?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
24. JPJoe Pyfer
  And, um, I refrained from putting the details of specific stories because the, the documentary is not about, "Woe is me. Poor me." It's about, A, I never, through all of this, gave up on the dream to get to the UFC. Even when I broke my arm and I thought I was doing... I did everything right. I didn't go out and party. I didn't go out and do drugs. I've never, I've never smoked weed. I've never done... And I'm not saying weed's a drug, but I've never smoked weed. I've never smoked a cigarette. I've never take... popped a pill. I've never done anything. I didn't go out to strip clubs. I didn't go out and bring girls home from the bar. That's never been me. So yeah, I mean-
25. JRJoe Rogan
  You were just always focused.
26. JPJoe Pyfer
  I was, I was obsessed with this. I was obsessed with this. And I was obsessed with this because I knew if I couldn't do this, I would have checked out. And that's, that's what made me, you know... That's what made me, like, "Keep going, motherfucker, keep going, keep going, keep going." And I just kept beating down the door of people, like my coach that, you know, has come with me. I've known that man since I was 10 years old, you know. And he's seen me, where? In the gym. And then nothing's changed. He could tell you that from... You know, the only thing that's changed is my maturity, the way I look at life, perspective. But, uh, yeah, man, I mean, it was a, it was a rough background, and it only got worse as I got older.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a horrible thing to hear. You know, as a parent, it's, it's terrifying to think that a parent... another parent could do that to their child. But we all know it's true. And we all know that it can do one of two things to someone. It could just ruin your life or it can give you this unstoppable fuel. And that's what it seems to have done with you. I would never wish that on anybody. But I often see people like you that are so fucking driven and so angry in there and so effective because of that, like, so dangerous because of that. I always... I'm often wonder, like, is it even possible?... to make a guy like you without that?
28. JPJoe Pyfer
  I don't think so.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  I look at, like, Mike Tyson, same thing.
30. JPJoe Pyfer
  I don't think so and I ... But I think that's where I have my appreciation for him, you know. I'll never discredit him. I would not be in the sport if it wasn't for him. He was the one that went to the gym. He's the one that introduced me and I will give respect where it's due, right? And that's the respect he deserves.
34:29 – 37:16
One-eye fighters and commissions: risk, standards, and fairness
1. JRJoe Rogan
  How is it that ... I wanted to ask you about this like, you know, uh, Shahar Bullitt has one eye?
2. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah. That's why I'm saying it because I'm telling you right now this kid will whoop that dude.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  How is Shahar Bullitt able to fight? I mean, how do you pass athletic commission standards?
4. JPJoe Pyfer
  So I- I don't know. So I think that from what I've heard depen- it's, it's I think it depends on the commission and where you're fighting. Um, in PA I know he has to have I think and I may be wrong, so somebody don't roast me for it, but I think you have to have I think it's called a 22, 20/200. You have to... It's like s- has to be some type of visibility.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  So you have to be able to see objects or light movements?
6. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, an object, shapes, something. You have to be able to at least identify something outta that eye.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
8. JPJoe Pyfer
  And, uh, yeah, I mean, I think-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  That is the craziest way to fight when you already have lost one eye.
10. JPJoe Pyfer
  Bro, he's bigger than me. The kid I'm talking about-
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
12. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... is bigger than me. He's bigger, he's bigger ... He's like 225 right now and he's in shape, abs cut. I'm telling you, li- I ca- I can't wait for this kid's future, um. But, uh, but I, but I train what I l- but my point is, is like I give back to a lot of, you know, I try to give back to a lot of my teammates.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
14. JPJoe Pyfer
  Um, because I didn't, I didn't let the things that hardened me and made me upset become a piece of shit. I don't think I'm a piece of shit. I think I'm a good person. You know, I don't think I'm the best person, I'm not the nicest guy, um, by a long shot, right? But I- I think it's ... this world is about what you get, you give back a- uh, you know, how you can. If you're not giving back in some way with success that you have, then I think you're a piece of shit. I don't care if you're a billionaire, you know? If, if you're not giving back and you're not trying to help the younger generation-
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
16. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... that's already so fucked up.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Especially the people around you.
18. JPJoe Pyfer
  (laughs)
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Especially your tribe.
20. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, I mean ...
21. JRJoe Rogan
  I couldn't agree more. Um, the, the, the one eye thing, man. Just it's just still really freaks me out like shout out to Michael Bisping.
22. JPJoe Pyfer
  (sighs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  One of the fucking toughest dudes-
24. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  ... to ever do it. That guy is-
26. JPJoe Pyfer
  And he did it in the dark.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  He scammed systems, he scammed the athletic commissions for 10 fights.
28. JPJoe Pyfer
  Mm.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  For 10 fights that dude fought with one eye.
30. JPJoe Pyfer
  But then look at the other-
37:16 – 41:55
Hermansson fight setup and Pyfer’s ‘I want to hear the shots’ Apex preference
1. JPJoe Pyfer
  Like Jack's style irritates the fuck outta me.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Jack de la Manda-linge?
3. JPJoe Pyfer
  No. Jack, uh, Hermansson going fighting.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Hermansson. Oh, right, right, right.
5. JPJoe Pyfer
  Dude's annoying as shit. I hate his style. Fucking bounces around and like he's just a awkward, weird, like weird shit.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
7. JPJoe Pyfer
  Um, Kamar Bullard's not weird but you know he's so-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
9. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... he's so fast and kicks and, man, I wanna bang, not kick, man. (laughs)
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Hermansson and you is when? When is that?
11. JPJoe Pyfer
  Uh, February 10th.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Nice.
13. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, so like 25 days or some shit like that, but-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
15. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... not too far out. I'm down- (laughs)
16. JRJoe Rogan
  That's, that's a very good fight for you.
17. JPJoe Pyfer
  It's a very good fight for me.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
19. JPJoe Pyfer
  I think, uh, I think a lot of people will try to pull this experience bullshit again. And, uh, he's definitely my toughest fight on paper and I think he will be my toughest test. But, uh, one thing's for sure, he better not let me get that one, 'cause I got that one, so. Um, he's a dog, he's tough but I think we know what w- what his style is if you look at Jack. It's like you gotta get the take down, brother.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
21. JPJoe Pyfer
  Because if stand and bang with me I'm gonna put you down.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. JPJoe Pyfer
  You know what I mean? I'm not, I'm not playing for decisions and uh, you know, shit it might come back to bite me, right? It might say it all confident. I might lose, might happen, but I just don't think that that's ... I don't think that's the next chapter for me and uh, yeah.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  There it is.
25. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, he got-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  So this is the fight night at the-
27. JPJoe Pyfer
  I'm a-
28. JRJoe Rogan
  ... Ugly motherfucker on TV, man. No, you look great.
29. JPJoe Pyfer
  (laughs)
30. JRJoe Rogan
  That's nonsense. The- the fucking Apex is the greatest place ever to see fights.
41:55 – 48:52
Injuries, training choices, and thrill seeking (motorcycles, risk, and mindset)
1. JPJoe Pyfer
  Uh, not ... So I had a torn, uh, labrum and I got some stem cells to try and fix that-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
3. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... um, and then honestly it really agitated it where you know and then the fight got announced and everything so this, this fight is sooner than I wanted it to be, uh, in a way but you don't say no to something like this like this, this is a good fight for me um when I say good fight I think that this is a fight that I'm very capable of winning at this point in time with the trajectory I'm on, with all the, you know people call it hype but I fucking earned it.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
5. JPJoe Pyfer
  This isn't hype this is called I paid my dues and I was out for a year and eight fucking months and made a comeback, made my comeback fight with a broken left hand, still knocked that dude out which was Derek Brunson's wrestling coach. Uh, came back, knocked down another guy, you know what I mean? So I've been there-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  You had a broken left hand going into that fight?
7. JPJoe Pyfer
  I had a ... My, I s- I broke my left ha- my left thumb in half like right where the joint is and I still went in there and I remember my coach was like, "Yo we gotta bite down, we just gotta do this man, like you do this, you're going back to the UFC." And I rem- it was the first time I ever worked with my, my head coach John Marquez um-And, uh-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  How far out did you break your thumb from the fight?
9. JPJoe Pyfer
  Uh, I think it was nine days.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, God.
11. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Damn. (laughs) Jesus Christ.
13. JPJoe Pyfer
  So, bro, when they grabbed my hand, like the commission grab... Like the medical tent-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
15. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... and they grabbed my hand, I was like, "Ugh." (laughs) But I wound up getting it. I took an XL, uh, glove, or double-XL glove because, you know, my hands aren't that big, but I... Bro, it was terrible. It was terrible fun.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Did you find a way to tape it in some way?
17. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah. I mean, we still taped it up like it was a fight, right? So I still had tons of pain, but the pressure stopped me from feeling like it was, like, floating around.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
19. JPJoe Pyfer
  So, uh... And I actually threw it, like, maybe three, four times in that fight-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  (exhales)
21. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... just out of, like, habit.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
23. JPJoe Pyfer
  And, uh... But yeah, I mean, first fight back here in eight months, break your, break her left hand. I have the X-ray for it. Um, and then, uh, you know, let alone the nerves I had to come back, I'd never thrown my right hand in a real fight and, uh... Man, it wa- it was awful. And then three weeks later I was playing basketball, I love playing basketball, and fuck it, broke my ankle and the UFC calls and says, "Hey, you wanna fight on the Contender Series?" So when I say I've had injury after injury. And it gets, it gets... Keeps going.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  What do... Do you think, like, maybe I shouldn't play basketball? Maybe I shouldn't do stuff outside-
25. JPJoe Pyfer
  That's why I don't play none. Yeah, so... But you know... So yeah. You know, but here's the thing. I don't... I- my, my theory on life, it could be wrong, I don't wanna... I don't wanna cheat myself along the way to do the things that I still love, you know? Like, and, and if I have to stop... If I have to live so fucking careful, I'm gonna develop that habit to live like a fucking hermit crab.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
27. JPJoe Pyfer
  And I... That's not me, man. I get on a motorcycle, I'm going 205 fucking miles an hour.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, Joe-
29. JPJoe Pyfer
  Bro. (laughs)
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Don't do that.
48:52 – 1:01:49
Cars as therapy: Evo build, horsepower talk, and the ‘Last Viper’ obsession
1. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, but, uh... Yeah, I'm a, I'm a thrill seeker, man. I love cars. Uh-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, you tell me about your Evo.
3. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, I got that Evo 8, baby. Wide body.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah?
5. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah. Big turbo.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  You got a picture of it?
7. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, I do. Dude, it's, it's nice.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Send it to Jamie.
9. JPJoe Pyfer
  It's, uh-
10. JRJoe Rogan
  You can Get an Air Drop to him. Th- that's a fucking great car.
11. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah. All right, cool, 'cause I got my tags on the back.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Those are great cars. So you built that, right?
13. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we have a... It had a 4G64 and now it's... I'm going, uh, uh, 4G63. So, um...... I'll send you two pictures so that way you can see the front and the back.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  For people who don't know, explain what that car is.
15. JPJoe Pyfer
  So, that car is an all-wheel drive 2006 Mitsubishi Evo. Um-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a wild little car, man. Super light. Crazy handling.
17. JPJoe Pyfer
  Did I not save your number, Jamie? I'm gonna send it to you, Joe.
18. NANarrator
  I can AirDrop it.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay. S- send it to me.
20. NANarrator
  See if you can AirDrop.
21. JPJoe Pyfer
  Oh. Does the AirDrop work? Can you see Jamie on the AirDrop?
22. NANarrator
  All right, let me see. Yeah. One second. I'm looking through your Instagram too. You had other awesome cars on there, but not the Evo.
23. JPJoe Pyfer
  Jamie, serious. MacBook Pro?
24. NANarrator
  Yep.
25. JPJoe Pyfer
  Cool.
26. NANarrator
  Got it.
27. JPJoe Pyfer
  Got it?
28. NANarrator
  Save.
29. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah, so my ... That's been my therapy, right. So, I've always wanted to be in the cars. My neighbor, when I was young, um, you know, th- uh, his name was Henry Papiano, good dude. Like, honestly, he ... I love him, because we don't talk all the time, and I haven't talked to him in years. But yeah.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  There it is.
1:01:49 – 1:32:43
Poverty, discipline, wrestling as structure, and building a chosen ‘gym family’
1. JRJoe Rogan
  ... it is horrible for you as a child, but I firmly believe that being poor as a kid is also a supercharger. It's a, it's like a superpower. There's something about it, y-
2. JPJoe Pyfer
  You're grateful.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  ... y- y- you're, you're grateful and you can't replace that. You can't ... If you have someone that grows up wealthy and then they just, y- they become successful in life, th- they're never gonna have that same gear as the person who grows up poor. There's something about growing up poor. It sucks.
4. JPJoe Pyfer
  It gives you a, it gives you a, a burning desire for the things that you want.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
6. JPJoe Pyfer
  And, and you're, you wanna figure it out. I mean, thes- these kids that are born into money, (clears throat) it's actually someone we both know, where it's like sometimes ... And, and, and even people like back home, it's like I know people that have kids where it's like they don't know how to like fit in-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
8. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... because status and money-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... and shit like that. So that could be damaging for a kid, you know? And-
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
12. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... it's, it's, it's good to have them in sports. It's good to have them in school cr- uh, you know, curriculums, like af- uh, after-school activities. And, uh, I always tell everybody that's like got a boy, if he's got an attitude problem, like put that motherfucker in wrestling, man.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  100%.
14. JPJoe Pyfer
  Wrestling is the best thing for a troubled kid.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  100%.
16. JPJoe Pyfer
  100%.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  100%.
18. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  100% so-
20. JPJoe Pyfer
  So-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  ... 'cause there's no easy wrestling.
22. JPJoe Pyfer
  No, man. There's no-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  But you have to, you have to show respect for your coaches. Yeah.
24. JPJoe Pyfer
  You have to show up on time. You have to ... You pay if you, you're late. You get broken down too.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  You get broken down. It's good, you know?
26. JPJoe Pyfer
  That's the thing, the, the getting the broken down. And then the kinda status you get from that, you really feel that. That's earned status. It's a different status.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a team score-
28. JPJoe Pyfer
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  ... individual- Mm-hmm.
30. JPJoe Pyfer
  ... you know, grading. You know what I mean?