JRE MMA Show #155 with Max Holloway

1. 0:00 – 2:27

   Fight travel, jet lag, and weird start times (Fight Island & UK cards)

   1. MHMax Holloway0:00

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (drum music)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Have you ever had to deal with jet lag for a fight?

   3. MHMax Holloway0:15

      No, not really. I mean, we- we- we- we try to go up, like, early, that's why.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      Yeah.

   5. MHMax Holloway0:19

      So, the first two days is- is whatever, but then after that, we're all good.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Where's the furthest that you had to fly to- to- to fight?

   7. MHMax Holloway0:25

      Uh, I think so Abu Dhabi, Fight Island.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:27

      In the Hou- so how long does that take to adjust?

   9. MHMax Holloway0:30

      Brother, that one was weird 'cause then you remember they had us, uh, fighting at weird times.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Mm-hmm.

   11. MHMax Holloway0:35

       Like, you know, like, so we had to ch- we had to sleep during the- during the day, and then wait f- like, train during the night. Like, I- I remember going to sleep around, like, 8:00 or 9:00 AM.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Whoa.

   13. MHMax Holloway0:45

       Yeah. 'Cause we was fighting, like, around that time, like, early in the morning, so it was just, uh, that was insane.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       So you had to get your body acclimated to that.

   15. MHMax Holloway0:52

       Acclimate it, yep.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       Whew. That's- that's gotta play a factor, right? Like, if you live in Abu Dhabi, that'd be a big advantage.

   17. MHMax Holloway0:58

       Oh, for sure. For sure. I mean, did you not just see the, uh, the July card that is- got announced in UK?

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MHMax Holloway1:06

       3:00 AM, brother-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Yeah, that's crazy. (laughs)

   21. MHMax Holloway1:08

       ... is- is the main card start. So they're saying whoever's q- main li- uh, headline is fighting at 6:00 AM.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       That's crazy.

   23. MHMax Holloway1:14

       That's insane, bro.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:15

       You know how drunk that audience is gonna be?

   25. MHMax Holloway1:16

       Brother, you should ...

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       (laughs)

   27. MHMax Holloway1:19

       Cra- I saw (laughs) ... You know what is funny? I saw a clip. I saw a clip, uh, a meme of a video of like, uh, a UK fan who's, like, living in the UK and he was like he watched our fight. Our fight just got done, mine's and Dustin's. He played our clip and then he was like, "Great, now I can start my morning." He opens the door, it's-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       (laughs)

   29. MHMax Holloway1:36

       ... it's- it's light out and stuff. I'm like, "Holy shit."

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       (laughs)
2. 2:27 – 4:52

   ‘People think I’m old’: career longevity, Volk losses, and MMA math

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:27

      Yeah, that's perfect. So what has it been like for you, uh, after 300? I mean, it seems like ... I- I think for whatever reason, people go through, uh, phases of their career. And with some fighters, they- if a fighter gets a loss or two, they start to think that that fighter's started to decline.

   2. MHMax Holloway2:50

      Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:51

      And with you, I think some people had written you off-

   4. MHMax Holloway2:56

      Oh, brother.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:56

      ... for some strange reason.

   6. MHMax Holloway2:57

      Brother. Oh, brother. I heard it.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:58

      I don't get it.

   8. MHMax Holloway2:59

      Yeah, I heard the noise.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:00

      I heard it. I heard the noise.

   10. MHMax Holloway3:02

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:02

       I'm like, "Listen, he's only 32."

   12. MHMax Holloway3:04

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:04

       Right, 32, right?

   14. MHMax Holloway3:04

       Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       He's only 32. That's athletic prime. I'm like, there's not- no beatings. There's no knockouts.

   16. MHMax Holloway3:11

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:11

       There's no, like, there's no decline in the, uh, expression of skills inside the octagon.

   18. MHMax Holloway3:17

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       Everything looks the s- the same and better every fight.

   20. MHMax Holloway3:20

       You- you know what the problem is? The problem is that, uh, I- I got- these guys got to see me grow up, you know? I got in the UFC when I was 20.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       20 years old.

   22. MHMax Holloway3:27

       And a lotta people think I'm DC's old ass.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:29

       (laughs)

   24. MHMax Holloway3:30

       Like, 42 years old or something, you know what I mean? And then I'm like, "Brother, I'm not DC." I've been calling out DC, but I'm a young guy, you know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       (laughs)

   26. MHMax Holloway3:36

       Just because I've been harassing his- his potato-looking butt.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       (laughs)

   28. MHMax Holloway3:40

       Like, come on. His bag of potato-looking ass, I- I'm o-

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:43

       You two together are hilarious.

   30. MHMax Holloway3:44

       Brother, I- I love that guy.
3. 4:52 – 7:36

   Post-KO recovery and protecting the brain: sparring choices and chin talk

   1. MHMax Holloway4:52

      Brother, that's- that- that was crazy.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:54

      Bro.

   3. MHMax Holloway4:54

      You know, a lo- a lot of people was giving me, uh, uh, uh, shit when, uh... 'cause Islam talked about our fight, about me and Justin, saying it was a useless fight or whatever. And I'm like, "Bro, like, if you took the fight in February when, like, you should've, 'cause you came out clean, I think so Justin woulda- woulda fought you, you know?" But like, how the hell is someone that you just knocked... Like, that was a scary knockout, brother. Like, that was a scary knockout, ass knockout. And then that guy turning around in a couple months. Like, bro, you're not even supposed to get hit for that long.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:21

      Right.

   5. MHMax Holloway5:21

      And then now you're doing a camp? Even if you do- okay, say you do a camp, you don't spoil a camp, right? But then you still training hard or whatever, and like maybe you just accidentally fall over, bump your head on something, you know?

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:32

      Mm-hmm.

   7. MHMax Holloway5:32

      Or like you're scratching your head, you know? Or you're screaming or something 'cause you're stressing out, you know? I'm like, "I don't know what could happen," but when I-

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:38

      You gotta- you have to have a long time after-

   9. MHMax Holloway5:40

      Yeah, chillin'.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       ... a knockout like that.

   11. MHMax Holloway5:41

       I mean, look at- look at Justin. I just saw Justin finally doing interviews after his fight and he just said, like, "I'm not doing nothing for six months."

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:47

       Mm-hmm.

   13. MHMax Holloway5:48

       Like, nothing. And I'm like, "Bro, that's smart, you know?"

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       When Marquez knocked out Manny Pacquiao, Freddy Roach made him wait a year.

   15. MHMax Holloway5:54

       One year?

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:54

       One year.

   17. MHMax Holloway5:55

       That's crazy.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:55

       So you gotta really heal up. That was a bad knockout.

   19. MHMax Holloway5:58

       Bro, you only got-I remember, w- it was y- it was you that talked about it, like that talked about our brain. This is like long time ago, when you was talking about the cotton candy thing-

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:08

       Mm-hmm.

   21. MHMax Holloway6:08

       ... in your brain-

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:08

       Yes.

   23. MHMax Holloway6:08

       ... and how it's, uh, how once that disappear, you don't-

   24. JRJoe Rogan6:12

       Uh-huh.

   25. MHMax Holloway6:12

       ... that sh- that shit don't grow back, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan6:14

       Exactly.

   27. MHMax Holloway6:14

       And I remember watching, that was a long time ago, I didn't even know how many years that was, that was ago and, um, that really m- meant a lot and everybody keep telling me like, "Oh Max, you get hit so much," and blah blah blah, this and that. I'm like, "Yeah, okay, in the fight you might see me get hit, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sparring." You know? Like, I'm not sparring, I'm being spar... This Justin Gaethje one, brother, I was going through the gates of hell. We had to bring back sparring.

   28. JRJoe Rogan6:36

       (laughs)

   29. MHMax Holloway6:36

       You know what I mean? Like I was, (laughs) I was ready to be a crash dummy against, uh, we, I, I told my coaches, "Look, this is a man that is very dangerous. We need to get in, we need to get in, into the thick of it and get it done." So we bring back sparring for this one, but it still wasn't-

   30. JRJoe Rogan6:50

       That's very wise of you to do that.
4. 7:36 – 12:25

   Breaking down Gaethje vs Holloway: knockdown dispute, durability, and Ilia’s shot-taking

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:36

      But you, you're not getting hit clean a lot. One of the things that you do a lot is, you, you roll with shots.

   2. MHMax Holloway7:41

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:41

      You're very good at rolling with shots. When you're getting hit, you're getting hit and I see you turning your face, I see you taking some steam off of a lot of shots and your style is so, i- it's, it's, it's a fun style to watch, but it's also a nightmare to deal with. You're switching stances, you're d- you're, you're, you're constantly cutting angles.

   4. MHMax Holloway8:02

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:03

      Like the volume that you put on Justin, like when Justin was having a hard time catching to you, it was, it was very evident early on that you were on it, but it was one of those fights where it's like, "Damn, Justin with one punch can fuck people up."

   6. MHMax Holloway8:15

      Yeah. Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:16

      And it's just like avoiding that one punch and then when you start tuning him up, then he dropped you. He dropped you-

   8. MHMax Holloway8:21

      Oh yeah, he d-

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:21

      What round was that?

   10. MHMax Holloway8:22

       Uh.

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:23

       Second?

   12. MHMax Holloway8:23

       Was it f- third.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:24

       Third?

   14. MHMax Holloway8:24

       I think third or fourth round, I forget. I forget.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:26

       Fourth round.

   16. MHMax Holloway8:26

       Yeah but-

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:27

       I think it was the fourth round, yeah.

   18. MHMax Holloway8:27

       It didn't, it didn't count as a drop, which is crazy. You know what I mean? Like a lot of people-

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:30

       It didn't count?

   20. MHMax Holloway8:31

       No, it didn't. So, so like they're, they're, um, ESPN is like, uh, posting it and saying like in however many fights I'm with the UFC, right, I stayed didn't get dropped. And that's, that's some bullshit. You know what I mean?

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:43

       That's bullshit.

   22. MHMax Holloway8:44

       Get, get-

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:44

       (laughs)

   24. MHMax Holloway8:44

       ... get Justin down here. I'll take it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:46

       Yeah.

   26. MHMax Holloway8:46

       You know what I mean? But I'm not, I'll be a man to sit here and be, I, I wouldn't be a man sitting here-

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:50

       Right.

   28. MHMax Holloway8:50

       ... telling you that it did. Bro, he, bro, all I remember getting hit by that punch and then like I, I, I sat and then I came back up. I was like, "What the fuck did he just hit me with?"

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:59

       (laughs)

   30. MHMax Holloway8:59

       You know what I mean? I was like, "Holy shit." I was like, "That was a good punch." And then when I re-watched it-
5. 12:25 – 15:00

   Leg kicks, shin pain, and ‘vibranium’ jokes: why Max stayed mobile

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:25

      How is your left shin, your left leg?

   2. MHMax Holloway12:26

      Brother, my left shin, it, it's all right now, but they hurt, bro. Th- I was, I was about to talk about it. My, bro, this guy kick hard as shit.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:33

      Yeah.

   4. MHMax Holloway12:33

      And his... Bro, the way his bones, I don't know what it was made out of, bro.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:37

      (laughs)

   6. MHMax Holloway12:37

      I think so titanium. Like, I like to say my, my chin is made out of vibranium, brother.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:41

      (laughs)

   8. MHMax Holloway12:41

      He had a vibranium leg, bro. I was like, "He went to Wakanda too?" I was thinking to myself, like, "How?"

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:47

      (laughs)

   10. MHMax Holloway12:47

       I thought I only got to go to Wakanda. I guess he went too-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:50

       (laughs)

   12. MHMax Holloway12:50

       ... you know? But, uh, you know, at the end of the day, bro, it, it hurt. Like I still, my, my shin still bruised. It feels good, I can move, I move it, whatever. It was, like, stiff after the fight. In there, a lot of people always... I always hear you talk about it in there and be like, "Oh, yeah, it hurts." I don't really feel it. Like, I don't pay too much mind to it in, in the fight.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MHMax Holloway13:07

       I, I, I can feel when he hits it and it's like, "Oh," I, I'm telling myself, "That's gonna hurt later, but you got 25 minutes, you know. We, we, we gotta stay in here, you know." And-

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:16

       It's that, that's what's interesting, is it doesn't seem to compromise your movement that much. It depends entirely upon the person. Like some people get calf kicked once real hard and it swells up and you see immediately they're walking fucked up-

   16. MHMax Holloway13:27

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:27

       ... and then they're trying to switch southpaw.

   18. MHMax Holloway13:29

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:29

       They're, they're trying to switch stances.

   20. MHMax Holloway13:31

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:31

       But you don't seem to have as much of a problem with it.

   22. MHMax Holloway13:34

       Yeah. I was... It wasn't really a problem. I know it hurts, I know it's gonna be hurt after the fight. But then even that, like, switching stances is the most craziest thing to me, while, while after getting, like, completely landed nicely there. 'Cause if I switch stances, he, he screwed up two of my legs. What am I gonna do, crawl over to him?

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:49

       (laughs) Right.

   24. MHMax Holloway13:49

       You know what I mean? I'd rather be... I'd rather have one leg than two legs messed up, you know? So and then they'll just keep it-

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:54

       Again, though, I think that's you.

   26. MHMax Holloway13:55

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:55

       I think you're particularly durable. Because some guys, like you've seen what happens with Pereira. He kicks you-

   28. MHMax Holloway14:01

       Oh, brother.

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:02

       ... a couple of times in that leg, and that leg's fucked up, man.

   30. MHMax Holloway14:05

       Messed up, bro.
6. 15:00 – 19:01

   UFC 300 card reactions: Moicano/Turner, Garbrandt’s opener, and flashy kicks

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      He's a funny dude. Man, he almost lost that Jalin Turner fight. That was crazy.

   2. MHMax Holloway15:03

      Brother.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:03

      What happened there?

   4. MHMax Holloway15:05

      Jalin Turner tried to look cool and get a walk-off KO, and it didn't happen.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      Yeah, it didn't happen. You can't do that. You gotta follow up. That was the fight. Like, if he beat Moicano, man, and Jalin had him.

   6. MHMax Holloway15:17

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      He had him.

   8. MHMax Holloway15:18

      We, we was in... I was at the hotel room, still watching that fight.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:21

      Wow.

   10. MHMax Holloway15:21

       I, I was watching it, was watching it and, um, yeah, I was tripping out. And you know what's funny? As soon as that, as soon as that happened, I was like, I told my coach, I was like, "You know what'd be funny? If "Money" Moicano, uh, comes out and rear nick is in the next round and he, he finishes him the next round." I was like, "Damn." I was like, "Whoa." It wasn't, it wasn't funny, but it was like, "Damn, that's amazing."

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:41

       Well, Jalin is so long. He's so dangerous too. His knockout power, like at length, it's, he catches guys on the end of shots. You can't even come close to him-

   12. MHMax Holloway15:50

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:50

       ... and he's cracking you, and he's got nasty power. And you know that Moicano dude, he, he-

   14. MHMax Holloway15:57

       He's tough, bro.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:57

       He's very tough. The fact that he figured it out, he's like, "Fuck all this standing. I'm gonna grab that dude-

   16. MHMax Holloway16:01

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       ... and drag him to the ground."

   18. MHMax Holloway16:02

       Smart, bro. Smart.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:04

       Yeah, yeah. It was a great fight.

   20. MHMax Holloway16:05

       IQ, that's fi- that's fight IQ, bro. I mean-

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       What a card that was. What a card.

   22. MHMax Holloway16:07

       Oh brother, from the begin-... From the first number, I had, I had, uh, family and friends that came to the fight and they went to the first fight.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Cody Garbrandt and David Ceferino.

   24. MHMax Holloway16:16

       They... You had to, you had to, bro. You had to.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       Imagine you got two former world champions going at it in the first fight.

   26. MHMax Holloway16:21

       First fight. Yeah, that's insane, brother.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:23

       And two guys that are still awesome, you know.

   28. MHMax Holloway16:25

       And it was, and it was fighting.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:26

       Oh.

   30. MHMax Holloway16:26

       It was a fight, bro.
7. 19:01 – 24:49

   What’s next for Max: 145 vs 155, BMF meaning, Conor/Ilia/Islam options, and 165 talk

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:01

      What do you think? Like if you had to plan it out. Okay, so here we got Poirier and Makhachev are fighting.

   2. MHMax Holloway19:07

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:07

      They're, they're fighting next and that's gonna be-

   4. MHMax Holloway19:09

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:09

      What is that? New Jersey?

   6. MHMax Holloway19:10

      New Jersey.

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:11

      New Jersey. So let's say Makhachev wins. If Makhachev wins ... Well, even if Poirier wins. If Poirier wins-

   8. MHMax Holloway19:17

      Hey bro, if Poirier wins, that'd be a fun fight, right?

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:19

      You and Poirier. It's a great rematch.

   10. MHMax Holloway19:20

       I mean, we have history, you know?

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:21

       Yes.

   12. MHMax Holloway19:21

       Especially at 55. We're at 45.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:23

       And make it, make it a double belt.

   14. MHMax Holloway19:25

       Brother, I'd- I would love that, brother.

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:27

       The double belt.

   16. MHMax Holloway19:27

       (laughs) Yeah, that'd be crazy.

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:30

       The double belt.

   18. MHMax Holloway19:31

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:31

       The double belt.

   20. MHMax Holloway19:31

       That'd be crazy.

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:31

       First time ever.

   22. MHMax Holloway19:32

       That'd be crazy.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:32

       BMF and the lightweight title on the line.

   24. MHMax Holloway19:35

       That'd be crazy.

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:36

       Wow, that would be wild. But even if, uh, whoever wins. But then, I really like ... No, here's the thing. At 55, you look fantastic. You look bigger, you look stronger. I'm sure it felt better. Like you didn't have to-

   26. MHMax Holloway19:49

       Oh, yeah. It felt good, brother.

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:49

       ... lose all that weight.

   28. MHMax Holloway19:50

       The cut, the cut, bro. The cut was, the- the cut was a cut, don't get me wrong, but it was, it was beautiful, brother. I was eating sushi all week.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:58

       Yeah. (laughs)

   30. MHMax Holloway19:58

       Eating more s- I e- I eat sushi when I go to 45 too, but I was eating more sushi all week, bro. I was loving it.
8. 24:49 – 34:43

   The viral knockout and ‘holy sh*t moments’: why the ending was historic

   1. JRJoe Rogan24:49

      I say to this day, and I, I do it based on my reaction. Obviously, this is personal. I say it's the greatest knockout of all time. The reason why I say it's the greatest knockout of all time was because everybody thought that Justin was gonna be overpowering you. He was a bigger guy. He had just knocked out Dustin Poirier. You had lost the last fight to Volkanovski. You hadn't been in title contention since then. You had a bunch of great wins, but here you're gonna fight this bigger guy, and all these people were writing you off. All these people were saying that it d... And you're tuning him up, and you did have to overcome getting knocked down. And you did have ad- adversity.

   2. MHMax Holloway25:23

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan25:23

      You had to deal with that leg. And then for you to stand winning four rounds to one in the middle of the octagon and pointing at the ground with 10 seconds left-

   4. MHMax Holloway25:32

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan25:32

      ... and then to knock him out with one second left. The way I reacted, the way I jumped up, I've never done that before. I've... All... Even when Leon Edwards knocked out Usman. That was another crazy one.

   6. MHMax Holloway25:40

      Yeah, that was crazy.

   7. JRJoe Rogan25:40

      Before that, I would've said that was the greatest knockout of all time, because he was down.

   8. MHMax Holloway25:44

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:44

      He was down four rounds, and John Anik just had the perfect call. He said, "That is not the cloth from which he is cutting." We were talking about-

   10. MHMax Holloway25:50

       And then boom. Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:51

       And then boom.

   12. MHMax Holloway25:52

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:52

       He lands his head kick-

   14. MHMax Holloway25:52

       Yeah, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:52

       ... like it's a movie. So, that was number one before, but you are number one now.

   16. MHMax Holloway25:57

       Oh, thank you, brother. Thank you.

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:57

       That's number one 'cause just impact all time, like complete polar shift of how people think about the BMF belt. They don't think about it as a gimmick at all anymore-

   18. MHMax Holloway26:07

       No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:07

       ... 'cause it was the wildest crazy fight-

   20. MHMax Holloway26:09

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan26:09

       ... with an undeniable number one contender in Justin versus you. It's wild how it happened.

   22. MHMax Holloway26:15

       Yeah, bro.

   23. JRJoe Rogan26:15

       The whole thing was wild.

   24. MHMax Holloway26:17

       It, it... (sniffs) I mean, you're only as good as your last fight, right? That's, that's, that's what it is. This sport, I, I, I like to tell everybody that, you know, it... This is not like basketball. This is not, this is not like baseball or like hockey where you can just shit the bed on a Tuesday and then you come back out on a Friday and then you, you're just a man of the world again, you know? Like, you... Shit like, like this stuff happen. You have a bad fight like with Alex, that fight don't get erased off until I have something great. And even if you have-

   25. JRJoe Rogan26:45

       Mm-hmm.

   26. MHMax Holloway26:45

       ... a good fight, you know what I mean? Like, I had a good fight with Arnold, but they still were like, "Ah, Alex, he did that."

   27. JRJoe Rogan26:49

       Right.

   28. MHMax Holloway26:49

       And then I did it with Korean Zom-... And then I had a nu- uh-

   29. JRJoe Rogan26:52

       Knockout.

   30. MHMax Holloway26:52

       ... knockout over Korean Zombie, and then they're like, "Yeah, but Korean is old," and blah, blah, blah. And then finally now with this Justin, now everybody forgets, you know? Like, it takes us a while-
9. 34:43 – 47:03

   Training philosophy at 155: speed over strength, camp tapering, and Poirier short-notice lessons

   1. JRJoe Rogan34:43

      What is, what is your walk around weight? Like, what's right now?

   2. MHMax Holloway34:46

      Me, right now, I walk around like s-... At... Before I used to get to a big boy, but now I walk around like 70, 75. Nothing crazy.

   3. JRJoe Rogan34:53

      Oh, that's not too crazy.

   4. MHMax Holloway34:54

      Yeah, nothing crazy. Nothing crazy. I wa- I was in there against, uh... They make us check our weight now, and I was, I was only 172 when we, when we were in, in, in against, uh, Gaethje, this last one.

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:04

      When you were fighting at featherweight, what did you weigh in when you fought?

   6. MHMax Holloway35:08

      I'd b- I would be around like 65. I'd get up high 60s. Maybe 68 at the highest.

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:12

      So did you... I know you did a lot of strength and conditioning. Your, your YouTube channel is great, by the way.

   8. MHMax Holloway35:17

      Oh, thank you, brother.

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:18

      And it's, it's really cool how you document pretty much everything. You're showing all your training, all the different stuff.

   10. MHMax Holloway35:23

       Yes, sir.

   11. JRJoe Rogan35:23

       So, you did a lot of strength and conditioning.

   12. MHMax Holloway35:25

       We did a lot of strength. We did a lot of strength. So, a lot of people was talking about, um, matching Gaethje's strength. And, and, and, I, w-... Our team didn't want to. We wanted to be strong, but we still wanted to be fast. We knew we was faster than Gaethje. So, our, our main focus... Everybody thought it was strength and getting big to be strong and to, o- of course endure his strikes, you know? But the main thing that we want to focus on was, was speed. Like, I knew I could, I could out go-... out, outgun him and then in the fifth round when we r- really hurt him, hurt him, I outgunned him with speed, you know? I hit like... I hit him with like five, five hits and, and the one that you don't see hurt you the most, you know? And the last right hand in that, in that little combination early in the fifth round is what hurt him the most, you know? Made him like... I, I, I stunned him a little bit. So, we're just working on speed rather, you know? Like, we had 12 weeks. You rea- you really can't... I wasn't willing to give... to put strain to give up conditioning.

   13. JRJoe Rogan36:14

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MHMax Holloway36:14

       So, I was like, "I wanna be speed and conditioning." And that's the way I fight, you know? I, I, uh... If you go look at it, a lot of people is looking at stats from mine and his fight about like the... how much he's throwing strikes and how much I, I throw in strikes, how mu- how much he gets hit, which was less than how much I get hit. And I was like, "Brother, that cannot be right." And then the stats is, you know, and I'm like, "No way." And then when you look at the stats, this guy had 12 fights and I had like 20 plus fights in the UFC. That's what come our stats is so close to each other because I have so much more fights than hi- his sm-... And then even now what I had a lot of time in the octagon.... and he just didn't, 'cause he would (laughs) he would knock guys out, you know what I mean?

   15. JRJoe Rogan36:50

       Yeah. (laughs)

   16. MHMax Holloway36:51

       He had, (laughs) he had that beautiful power. So, you know, at the end of the day, like, you know, uh, the numbers, some of the numbers that these guys is putting out there, I was like, "Brother, you guys need to do you guys' homework." You know? Like, "You g- you n- stop looking at the surface level. Like, start digging deep into it."

   17. JRJoe Rogan37:03

       Yeah. Yeah. Um, when you... uh, uh, it was interesting, the way you just said about, uh, strength and conditioning. You, you're not willing to give up conditioning for strength.

   18. MHMax Holloway37:10

       Uh-huh.

   19. JRJoe Rogan37:11

       So, w- i- so, how do you approach that? Like, when you, when you made a decision to go to 55? So, the Poirier fight, you go to 55, but you did it on pretty short notice, right? How-

   20. MHMax Holloway37:20

       Yeah. Yeah, we had, we ha- we had like... So, the way we train is I always take two weeks off before a fight. So, it was like six weeks, and then so we actually had four weeks to train for it, man. I was like... I mean, g- pull up the picture of Poirier punching me in my face. There's a famous picture of Poirier punching me in my face and I, I look fat.

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:37

       Expl- explain that. When you said you take, uh, two weeks off before the fight. What do you mean?

   22. MHMax Holloway37:41

       So, like, uh, like strength and conditioning. So, I don't do no strength and conditioning, like, the week before the fight. Like, maybe we do like a little lift or whatever, but it's just something you maintain. Like, 'cause you can't get faster or stronger two weeks before a fight.

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:52

       Right.

   24. MHMax Holloway37:52

       Or even the week, right? So, uh, even with cardio, it's not gonna... Anything I do the week before the fight is not gonna help me, and anything I do the week, uh, of the fight is not gonna help you. You, you... All the hard work is done.

   25. JRJoe Rogan38:02

       Right.

   26. MHMax Holloway38:02

       And that's what these guys... Yeah, look, look how, look how fat I was.

   27. JRJoe Rogan38:05

       (laughs)

   28. MHMax Holloway38:05

       Look at that ph- look at that top right one. That top right one, right there. Look how fat I was. Yeah, look at that. Yeah. That's Muffin Top Maxx, brother.

   29. JRJoe Rogan38:13

       (laughs) so, you just-

   30. MHMax Holloway38:14

       And he zooms in. Wow!
10. 47:03 – 50:26

    Mindset, identity, and outside interests: streaming, negativity, and ‘fighting is easy’

    1. JRJoe Rogan47:03

       But you have a great mentality for that. You're able to like, go past losses easily.

    2. MHMax Holloway47:07

       Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan47:07

       It is what it is and you keep moving-

    4. MHMax Holloway47:09

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan47:09

       ... and you're on the path.

    6. MHMax Holloway47:10

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JRJoe Rogan47:11

       But for some people-

    8. MHMax Holloway47:12

       It's tough.

    9. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       ... like, the losses are devastating-

    10. MHMax Holloway47:13

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan47:13

        ... because their whole identity is based on success.

    12. MHMax Holloway47:15

        Yeah, yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan47:16

        And if they don't get success, then they feel like they're a loser.

    14. MHMax Holloway47:18

        But even with that, the whole identity thing, i- i- that's what it is. Like, even when like, uh, you see guys who, uh, retiring from other sports or our sport, like, they have that identity crisis-

    15. JRJoe Rogan47:27

        Mm-hmm.

    16. MHMax Holloway47:27

        ... because they're so known for one thing.

    17. JRJoe Rogan47:29

        Yep.

    18. MHMax Holloway47:29

        And that's when I tell them, like, that's why I love doing other stuff. Like people, bro... Oh my God, I stream. I stream on Kick now. I stream on kick.com and, um... Brother, I... During the whole fight, I'm streaming. They're like, "Yup, thank you for this, Max. I'm putting my house on Gaethje now. He's training while you're playing fucking video games." I'm like, "What the fuck?"

    19. JRJoe Rogan47:49

        (laughs)

    20. MHMax Holloway47:49

        I was like, "Bro, I need to be training for 24 hours a day?"

    21. JRJoe Rogan47:52

        (laughs)

    22. MHMax Holloway47:52

        Like a fucking cyborg or something? What the hell? Like... They're like, "Yup, yup, yup, you, yeah. L- look at you over here." I freaking... I do slots on there, you know. I gambl-... Like, we play funny. Like, "Yup, look at you doing this shit, losing money. You're gonna lose your fight too." I'm like, "What the f-..." Like, "Bro-

    23. JRJoe Rogan48:07

        Listen-

    24. MHMax Holloway48:07

        ... you can't catch a break, bro."

    25. JRJoe Rogan48:08

        ... those are just losers.

    26. MHMax Holloway48:09

        Brother.

    27. JRJoe Rogan48:10

        Unfortunately, I don't mean anything bad to you guys out there, but if you're commenting to a guy like that, you're a loser.

    28. MHMax Holloway48:16

        (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan48:16

        There's no way you're a winner. It's not possible. It's not possible that you're excelling at whatever you do. No one comes to you like, "That's Mike, he's the best."

    30. MHMax Holloway48:25

        Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11. 50:26 – 1:00:57

    Technique deep dive: jump-spinning back kick origins, video games to Muay Thai, and coaching brilliance

    1. JRJoe Rogan50:26

       Yeah, I'm sure, and that's a fact. How did you get so good at that jump-spinning back kick?

    2. MHMax Holloway50:32

       Brother, just practice, bro. I'd-

    3. JRJoe Rogan50:33

       Did anybody show you the-

    4. MHMax Holloway50:35

       Do... No, do you remember, do you remember me telling you? It was here. It's a viral clip of what we ... learning strikes from the game. That was one of the strikes.

    5. JRJoe Rogan50:42

       Yeah.

    6. MHMax Holloway50:43

       That's one of the strikes, brother. I saw the strikes from the game. I was like-

    7. JRJoe Rogan50:46

       (laughs)

    8. MHMax Holloway50:46

       ... Renan Barao, Renan Barao threw it-

    9. JRJoe Rogan50:48

       Mm-hmm.

    10. MHMax Holloway50:48

        ... threw it, threw it nice. So I was like, with Dustin Kimura, I told him, "Brother, we need to do this spinning back kick shit."

    11. JRJoe Rogan50:53

        Yeah.

    12. MHMax Holloway50:54

        "It's just, it's just so good and it's a secret weapon." And, and then the thing is funny 'cause, uh, in the game, I was throwing it close. Like, a lot of people throw it from distance-

    13. JRJoe Rogan51:02

        Mm-hmm.

    14. MHMax Holloway51:02

        ... but I throw it really close-

    15. JRJoe Rogan51:04

        Yes.

    16. MHMax Holloway51:04

        ... like, almost in clinch.

    17. JRJoe Rogan51:05

        That's why I asked.

    18. MHMax Holloway51:05

        And, yeah. A- a- and I, and I told him, like, "Bro, this is gonna be a secret weapon." I remember Dustin Kimura, he, he, he was in the UFC for a little bit. And, um, and I t-... and I was trying to make him practice it with me. He's... he... I remember him saying one time, like, "Fuck this kick. This kick is stupid as hell." And then, uh, h-... we kept practicing, kept practicing. Uh, uh, another guy, a big guy came down, trained with us, and he dropped him when the spinning back kick. And from the clinch, right? And I was like, "W- what I told you, brother. I told you, this fucking kick is a secret weapon."

    19. JRJoe Rogan51:32

        How were you practicing it close up? What's the drill?

    20. MHMax Holloway51:35

        We... We... He would just stand close. I was like, "Bro, like, I, I wish..." W- I'd get my timing from, from it being a distance first-

    21. JRJoe Rogan51:40

        Mm-hmm.

    22. MHMax Holloway51:41

        ... and then we'd be, like, little bit closer, and be like, "Bro, we gotta... All we gotta focus on is bringing our knee up and then, and then pushing it out at the last second." And the main thing was just bringing your knee up and snapping your head around. Snap your head around first, see where you're gonna land so you don't kick each other in the freaking groin area, 'cause-

    23. JRJoe Rogan51:55

        Right.

    24. MHMax Holloway51:55

        ... it happened a couple times (laughs) -

    25. JRJoe Rogan51:57

        Yes.

    26. MHMax Holloway51:57

        ... to me and him, so. But yeah, it was like, bring your knee up, how I look, and then s-... and then push it.

    27. JRJoe Rogan52:03

        Y- do, do you ever practice where you stand right next to the bag?

    28. MHMax Holloway52:05

        Yeah, I practiced on the bag.

    29. JRJoe Rogan52:06

        Like, touch the bag-

    30. MHMax Holloway52:06

        Yeah, yeah.

Episode duration: 2:38:28