JRE MMA Show #156 with Royce Gracie

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. RGRoyce Gracie0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      All right, we're up. What's happening, my friend?

   3. RGRoyce Gracie0:14

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Great to see you.

   5. RGRoyce Gracie0:16

      Life is good in my world.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Yeah. Life is good in your world.

   7. RGRoyce Gracie0:20

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      It's, uh, it's always good to see you, man. But it's, uh, you know, I know you're you. And I know, you know, you, y- you s- you're just Royce Gracie. You're th- you're the, the, you just, y- you're who you are. But for most human beings, you are one of the most unusual people that's ever lived. The original ultimate fighter.

   9. RGRoyce Gracie0:41

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       The number one, the guy, the reason why this whole thing is so big. You're the fucking man.

   11. RGRoyce Gracie0:46

       Uh, it's because of my father.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       Yes.

   13. RGRoyce Gracie0:48

       I'm a product of his work.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       For sure. For sure. But for most people, our introduction to Brazilian jujitsu was you in UFC1.

   15. RGRoyce Gracie0:57

       (sighs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       You know, we didn't... Uh, I, you know, I grew up in martial arts. But we didn't know about Brazilian jujitsu till UFC1 in 1993.

   17. RGRoyce Gracie1:05

       Yeah. It's, uh, that when, uh, Rorion had a vision. So back then, we used to teach in the garage, private classes, one student at a time. And, uh, Rorion had the vision, how can we spread out throughout the world? It's once America find out, we gotta put on TV.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       Yeah.

   19. RGRoyce Gracie1:27

       Once America find out, the whole world will find out.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       The world found out so quick. I've never seen a martial art spread through the country like Brazilian jujitsu did in the 1990s.

   21. RGRoyce Gracie1:38

       A lot of people thought the Gracies are arrogant. They were trying to put down the other martial arts. But was not. It was, uh, it's like a, it was like a put up or shut up.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       Yeah.

   23. RGRoyce Gracie1:50

       Karate against kung fu, everybody claims that their style is the best. There's only one way to find out. And w- and we're willing to, to try to find out. We're not saying that we're the best. We're just like, "Hey, you say you're the best. I'm say the be- I'm the best." There's only one way to find out.

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:07

       Well, the thing is, you guys had already tried it in, in dojos. You'd already gone to gyms. You'd already had challenge matches, you know. Gracie in Action videos were an eye-opening video for a lot of martial artists, 'cause they saw these karate guys who are, you know, the guys you thought they were these badass fighters. And they just got taken down and strangled, taken down and strangled, taken down and arm barred.

   25. RGRoyce Gracie2:28

       But again, that was in Brazil.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:31

       Mm-hmm.

   27. RGRoyce Gracie2:31

       A lot of that would happen in Brazil. When we came to America, it was a different level. It was, okay, this guy's the world champion in karate, the number one boxer, the number one kickboxer. Well, let's see if our stuff work against them. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:47

       What was-

   29. RGRoyce Gracie2:47

       And they, and they were bigger too.

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       When you grew up with this, d- you, I mean, you started jujitsu when you were very, very young. So when you grew up with this, when was the first time you saw one of those challenge matches?
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Okay. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      That was when-

   2. RGRoyce Gracie15:00

      Okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      ... uh, Vitor was making his debut in the UFC. Back when they were calling him Victor Gracie.

   4. RGRoyce Gracie15:04

      Yes. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:04

      It was UFC 12. And, uh, I remember the feeling of the first class, the feeling of sp- how humiliated you are when you don't know Jiu-Jitsu, and you spar with someone who knows Jiu-Jitsu. It's like you think you know how to fight, and then you get in there, and then all of a sudden you're on your back, you don't know what to do, and all of a sudden you're getting choked. And you're like, "Oh, no, this is crazy." Like, it was-

   6. RGRoyce Gracie15:27

      And you've been doing martial art for a long time already.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:30

      My whole life. (laughs)

   8. RGRoyce Gracie15:30

      So ...

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:30

      Uh, I had a d- completely distorted idea of my ability to fight, completely distorted. And I remember my first class, I was like, "Oh, boy, now I know."

   10. RGRoyce Gracie15:41

       It's like, uh, back in the garage days, there was some, there was always a student that bring a, a, a family friend or, or a family of member or coach from different styles of martial art. And they would come in, and they would come in to fight us. But we, Rorion and I, would have be like, "Okay, we're gonna control and turn him into a student."

   11. JRJoe Rogan16:08

       (laughs)

   12. RGRoyce Gracie16:09

       So we would take the guy down, mount, and pretty much talk to him, maybe choke, maybe armbar, let it go, not hurting. And the guy would go home and goes, "Oh man, can I sign up? Can I learn?"

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:20

       Right, because of the fact that you didn't hurt them. You, you could convert them into a student. If you beat the fuck out of them and just broke their face-

   14. RGRoyce Gracie16:27

       They would never come back.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       Yeah.

   16. RGRoyce Gracie16:28

       So we were more concerned about gaining a student than trying to beat them up. They, but they would come in to fight. We would converting them.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       Wow. Who's, who's th- Was it your father that was the mastermind behind doing it that way?

   18. RGRoyce Gracie16:44

       I think that was Rorion 'cause I ... Rorion was, was like my second father. I came to live with him. I was 17 going on 18. I came to America to live with Rorion.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       So Rorion was a lawyer, very smart, very calculated-

   20. RGRoyce Gracie16:59

       And we would teaching back in the garage days, teaching every day, private classes, half an hour private classes. Place look like a crack house. Every-

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:09

       (laughs)

   22. RGRoyce Gracie17:09

       ... half an hour there's a person come in and leaving, coming and going, coming and going. (laughs) Then they was like, "What are they doing over there?" (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       It's am- amazing what started in that garage, if you really think about it.

   24. RGRoyce Gracie17:20

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:20

       But it's also amazing, like his vision that he had some- so much belief in Jiu-Jitsu that he knew that he just ... It wasn't like it had to be developed. It was already there. You just have to show people. They just need to know.

   26. RGRoyce Gracie17:34

       And we try advertisements and so he finally figured out, we have to put on TV.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:41

       Mm.

   28. RGRoyce Gracie17:41

       And once the American people find out, the whole world will see it. So ... And that's what happened. Put it on TV. Pfft-

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:50

       Hm.

   30. RGRoyce Gracie17:50

       ... second UFC-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   I think 'cause the...…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      round begins, I think they should start you right back in the same place.

   2. RGRoyce Gracie30:03

      I think 'cause the... they're on the same weight division. Back then there was no weight division.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:08

      Right.

   4. RGRoyce Gracie30:09

      But since the... so I don't... I would say, I would say the fight doesn't favor one person, one style or another.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      It doesn't favor it, but it gives a distinct advantage if you let a person stand up that didn't stand up. So if you start the second round, (clears throat) say, if, if you take me down with four minutes and 30 seconds to go and you're dominating me and you're closing in on me and you're about to tap me, but then the round ends and then we start, but now we start standing up. But I didn't earn that stand up. I just got to stand up because of the time. I feel like the r- the fight should be a fight. So if a fight is five rounds, that's a 25-minute fight. And I think whatever position that you're in at the end of that first round, you should begin in the second round. That's what I think 'cause-

   6. RGRoyce Gracie30:55

      I'm in favor of doing one round straight through.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:58

      Well, that would be wild too.

   8. RGRoyce Gracie31:00

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:00

      I think one round... and maybe even no time limit.

   10. RGRoyce Gracie31:03

       ... eh, no time limit is not good for the TV.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:05

       No, no.

   12. RGRoyce Gracie31:07

       But make-

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:07

       But good for the internet.

   14. RGRoyce Gracie31:08

       ... one 15-minute round.

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:10

       Ooh, yeah.

   16. RGRoyce Gracie31:11

       It's like, that's it, one 15 straight through, go straight-

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:15

       Yeah.

   18. RGRoyce Gracie31:15

       ... no, no rounds. Start, 15 minutes later, we'll stop.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:19

       They should try that.

   20. RGRoyce Gracie31:21

       And if a... hey, if nobody wins, add another five minutes or 10 minutes.

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:26

       Right, overtime round.

   22. RGRoyce Gracie31:27

       You see, overtime.

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       Yeah. Well, I think Pride had good rules, with a 10-minute first round was better. I think-

   24. RGRoyce Gracie31:33

       Yes.

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       ... 10 minutes is better, especially if someone, like, works really hard. Again, 4 minutes, 30 seconds, you finally take the guy down, now you're on top. And now you're trying to set things up, but the bell rings, and then you start-

   26. RGRoyce Gracie31:44

       S-

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       ... standing up again.

   28. RGRoyce Gracie31:45

       S- yeah. They start standing up again, but then, yeah, I think put a 10-minute round, 15-minute, one-round straight through, man, it's safe. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:52

       But I think they've... the problem is they've stopped changing the rules. The rules are the rules now, and they, they've kind of, like, solidified them and established them. But I don't think the rules are right. I think, I think if a guy takes you down, you should have to earn a stand-up. You have to get back up to your feet. So if the fight ends, and-

   30. RGRoyce Gracie32:11

       With one mounted on top-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. RGRoyce Gracie45:00

      today.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      Yeah.

   3. RGRoyce Gracie45:01

      Some are more proficient than the others.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:03

      Yes.

   5. RGRoyce Gracie45:04

      But everybody have to know.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:05

      Yeah, you have to know what's going on. You have to.

   7. RGRoyce Gracie45:07

      So... (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:08

      Yeah.

   9. RGRoyce Gracie45:08

      Everybody have to know a little bit of wrestling-

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:10

       You have to know striking too.

   11. RGRoyce Gracie45:10

       ... and Judo. The, the-

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:11

       Yes.

   13. RGRoyce Gracie45:12

       ... kickboxing-

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       Yeah.

   15. RGRoyce Gracie45:13

       ... boxing. The Karate. Everybody have to know a little bit of everything.

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:16

       Yeah. It's a different sport. It's, it's totally different now, but-

   17. RGRoyce Gracie45:20

       But would it be, would it be fun to do once, see who can sign up for it?

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:24

       Yeah. Yeah, no time limit, no weight class. No gloves. Yeah, old school. I think they should take-

   19. RGRoyce Gracie45:32

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:32

       ... away the cage. I think the cage helps people too, 'cause it helps people stand back up. It helps you, if you get a guy down, and you get a guy down in an open room, like say a basketball court.

   21. RGRoyce Gracie45:43

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan45:43

       Like, there's nothing to help him get back up.

   23. RGRoyce Gracie45:45

       Okay, hold on. Time out over here.

   24. JRJoe Rogan45:47

       (laughs)

   25. RGRoyce Gracie45:47

       Now you brought some memories over here.

   26. JRJoe Rogan45:49

       Yeah.

   27. RGRoyce Gracie45:49

       First UFC, it was John Millers, um, the producer for, uh, Conan the Destroyer.

   28. JRJoe Rogan45:58

       Mm-hmm.

   29. RGRoyce Gracie45:59

       Dir- The father of Dirty Harry, the, the Clint Eastwood. He's in charge of creating the cage. But before the cage, they come up with some ideas, they present to me. I was like, "Wait a minute, hold on." They're like, "How about if we make a, a, a r- a round ring with a pit undern- with a pit-"

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:22

       Around it.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Oh, it's Sunday off,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      right, right.

   2. RGRoyce Gracie1:00:00

      Oh, it's Sunday off, we're gonna rest. No, no, not for them, not for those guys.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:05

      What was training (clears throat) like for you, like during UFC 1?

   4. RGRoyce Gracie1:00:15

      Training. I never really party, so I, I understand because I'm on that philosophy. I would say good... I... Before, like a month, two months before the fights, a month before the fight, when I was fighting in Japan, when I went to fight in Japan, a month before the fight, I would move out of the house. So I don't have to deal with the, with the kids, with the woman, nothing. So month before. And Rorik would come over and have a talk with me and my father and it's like, "Okay, there's no babysitting. There's no hanging out with the kids." Yep, none of that.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:01:04

      Just Spartan training.

   6. RGRoyce Gracie1:01:06

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

      Yeah.

   8. RGRoyce Gracie1:01:07

      Pretty much, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

      And...

   10. RGRoyce Gracie1:01:09

       And I understand. I was like, "Okay. I'm a soldier, man. You tell me to do it, I'll do it." Uh, there's not, there's not a doubt, you see? They say, "Do it," done. So you cannot hang around with the kids and babysit and the kids are literally all grown now, but...... it's like, "Nope. Okay. I can cut it off, not a problem."

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:30

       And what-

   12. RGRoyce Gracie1:01:31

       A lot of discipline on that, to say goodbye to the family. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:34

       (laughs)

   14. RGRoyce Gracie1:01:34

       You gotta go train, you gotta go spend a month away.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:36

       And what was the day's training like? Did you do any strength and conditioning back then? Or was it all just jujitsu training and, and position training, and drills?

   16. RGRoyce Gracie1:01:47

       It was a lot of, uh, in that order. You have to know what you're doing. That's how I learned from my family. You have to have endurance, then comes power. Yes, I did a lot of the strength and conditioning, but a lot of endurance. Endurance was before the strength and strength.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02:06

       So let-

   18. RGRoyce Gracie1:02:06

       So even till today, it's like, it's knowledge. If you don't know how to fight-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:10

       Right.

   20. RGRoyce Gracie1:02:11

       ... you have no business in the cage.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:12

       Right.

   22. RGRoyce Gracie1:02:13

       But then, you know how to fight and you have a lot of power, but you can't last more than two minutes.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:18

       Right. Not good.

   24. RGRoyce Gracie1:02:19

       Uh-oh, you're in trouble.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:20

       Yeah. (laughs)

   26. RGRoyce Gracie1:02:20

       So you have to know what you're doing, you have to have endurance to last at least the first round (laughs) , five minutes.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:26

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RGRoyce Gracie1:02:26

       Then becomes power.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:28

       And what kind of endurance training would you do?

   30. RGRoyce Gracie1:02:30

       Oh, endurance, everything from running, to swimming, to... Strength coach and I one time got up and was like, "Okay." The guy, he used to be the strength coach for, strength coach for USC, for the Rams when they were in LA. James, man, went for a 41-mile run. (laughs)
6. 1:15:00 – 1:18:43

   Yeah. …

   1. RGRoyce Gracie1:15:00

      that's what my family did. You say you're good, I'm saying I'm good, there's only one way to find out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:05

      Yeah.

   3. RGRoyce Gracie1:15:07

      And I told him, "Keep doing it, 'cause that will push people." You see? Yep, that's us training. (laughs) Look at... We were going so light, he's going so easy on me, and I'm giving to him, "Go ahead, catch me." And he was like, put the hand and doesn't catch. And I was like, "Really?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:15:20

      (laughs)

   5. RGRoyce Gracie1:15:21

      (laughs) And then he'll give me something, and I was like, "Okay, you take." I was like, "No, you take." (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:15:27

      (laughs) Nice and smooth and slow.

   7. RGRoyce Gracie1:15:29

      Yep. (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:15:29

      But that's the thing, that he's capable of rolling like that, 'cause he's so fucking strong, but he doesn't use it.

   9. RGRoyce Gracie1:15:34

      Yep.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:15:34

       You know, it's just all technique and movement, you know, and understanding. And obviously, he came from Renzo school. You know, John Danaher taught him.

   11. RGRoyce Gracie1:15:44

       Yep.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:15:44

       And Danaher came from Renzo. You know, it's like it's all that same lineage.

   13. RGRoyce Gracie1:15:49

       But there's a lot of good, talented people over there, out there right now.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:15:53

       Oh, my God, it's incredible. Like, the level of just jujitsu now is so high. You know, Mikey Musumeci and, you know, the Ruotolo brothers, and all these different guys out there. There's just so much-

   15. RGRoyce Gracie1:16:04

       There's somebody-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:16:05

       ... high level.

   17. RGRoyce Gracie1:16:06

       ... that trains with him, with Gordon Ryan, um... I can't remember his name right now, man. But I heard the kid says, "I'm gonna catch you on the left arm," and he catch you on the left arm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:16:21

       Hmm.

   19. RGRoyce Gracie1:16:22

       It's like, "Fuck, I'm gonna catch the right foot," and he catch you, and he tells you how long and timing. It's like, wow, that's impressive-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:16:36

       Yeah.

   21. RGRoyce Gracie1:16:36

       ... to be able to pull such a thing. It's not easy. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:16:39

       No. Well, that's what guys do when they get past the level of everybody else, right? They just start challenging themselves by giving themselves one thing they're gonna try to do.

   23. RGRoyce Gracie1:16:48

       And I ask people around and people say, "Yep, this kid is-"

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:16:51

       Which guy is this?

   25. RGRoyce Gracie1:16:52

       To support him, uh, it's a training partner for Gordon Ryan.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:16:55

       Giancarlo? Who is it? Do you know which guy it is?

   27. RGRoyce Gracie1:16:58

       (sighs) Fuck, I can't remember the name.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:16:59

       Hmm.

   29. RGRoyce Gracie1:17:00

       Well, it's one of the guys that train with Gordon Ryan, man. He's on that level.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:17:04

       Well, there's very high level guys now. I mean, it's just, it's so inc-... But it's also iron sharpens iron, you know? And these guys are so good now, and everybody's competing with guys that are so good. Like, you go to Abu Dhabi and you watch the level, it's just so amazing.

Episode duration: 2:03:47