EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,291 words- 0:00 – 1:05
Royce as the face of early UFC and the mission to prove jiu-jitsu works
- RGRoyce Gracie
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)
- JRJoe Rogan
All right, we're up. What's happening, my friend?
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Great to see you.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Life is good in my world.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Life is good in your world.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, uh, it's always good to see you, man. But it's, uh, you know, I know you're you. And I know, you know, you, y- you s- you're just Royce Gracie. You're th- you're the, the, you just, y- you're who you are. But for most human beings, you are one of the most unusual people that's ever lived. The original ultimate fighter.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
The number one, the guy, the reason why this whole thing is so big. You're the fucking man.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Uh, it's because of my father.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RGRoyce Gracie
I'm a product of his work.
- JRJoe Rogan
For sure. For sure. But for most people, our introduction to Brazilian jujitsu was you in UFC1.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(sighs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, we didn't... Uh, I, you know, I grew up in martial arts. But we didn't know about Brazilian jujitsu till UFC1 in 1993.
- 1:05 – 2:49
From garage lessons to pay-per-view: Rorion’s strategy to spread BJJ
- RGRoyce Gracie
Yeah. It's, uh, that when, uh, Rorion had a vision. So back then, we used to teach in the garage, private classes, one student at a time. And, uh, Rorion had the vision, how can we spread out throughout the world? It's once America find out, we gotta put on TV.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Once America find out, the whole world will find out.
- JRJoe Rogan
The world found out so quick. I've never seen a martial art spread through the country like Brazilian jujitsu did in the 1990s.
- RGRoyce Gracie
A lot of people thought the Gracies are arrogant. They were trying to put down the other martial arts. But was not. It was, uh, it's like a, it was like a put up or shut up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Karate against kung fu, everybody claims that their style is the best. There's only one way to find out. And w- and we're willing to, to try to find out. We're not saying that we're the best. We're just like, "Hey, you say you're the best. I'm say the be- I'm the best." There's only one way to find out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the thing is, you guys had already tried it in, in dojos. You'd already gone to gyms. You'd already had challenge matches, you know. Gracie in Action videos were an eye-opening video for a lot of martial artists, 'cause they saw these karate guys who are, you know, the guys you thought they were these badass fighters. And they just got taken down and strangled, taken down and strangled, taken down and arm barred.
- RGRoyce Gracie
But again, that was in Brazil.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
A lot of that would happen in Brazil. When we came to America, it was a different level. It was, okay, this guy's the world champion in karate, the number one boxer, the number one kickboxer. Well, let's see if our stuff work against them. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
What was-
- RGRoyce Gracie
And they, and they were bigger too.
- 2:49 – 4:12
Challenge matches and family lore: how a fighter’s identity forms
- JRJoe Rogan
When you grew up with this, d- you, I mean, you started jujitsu when you were very, very young. So when you grew up with this, when was the first time you saw one of those challenge matches?
- RGRoyce Gracie
It was Rickson fighting Zulu.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- RGRoyce Gracie
I was so y- I was young. I couldn't get into the stadium. So I watched through a crack on the door.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
It's like outside the stadium 'cause you had, there was a, there was a age to be in there. I think it was like 16. And I was like 15, I think, when he fought, or 14 when he fought. So Royler got in because he did a demonstration, I guess, before. But I had to stay outside. And I was looking through the crack, could barely see it. And then-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Yeah. (laughs) Oh, sorry. Even before that, there's a black and white video of Rorion, Relson, Rolles, and some of the students fighting against karate guys on the tile. And that's when the, th- I was there. I was present on that day. But I always heard stories of the family fighting. And yeah, we got in a fight on the, fought this guy on the beach. And w- the guy show up at the school and we had to fight. And all of a s- grew up listening to them, the stories of my father fighting, my uncles and my cousins. And so I was like, "I wanna be one of them." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
"I wanna do this." (laughs)
- 4:12 – 7:31
Why Royce was chosen for UFC 1: calm temperament and ‘don’t hurt them’
- JRJoe Rogan
So there was always rumors about why you were chosen to be the representative for the first UFC. What- what's the actual truth behind it? Like why, why did they choose you?
- RGRoyce Gracie
Dude, it was gonna be on national TV. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
Looks. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, looks.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Imagine if they put a ugly brother with a ugly-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
They all coulda done the same thing, my cousins.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
They all coulda done the same thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
But come on, b- by the looks. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs) No, no. I think, I think my father and Rorion knew I was gonna obey my father's order. It was like, "Do not hurt your opponents."
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Um, the other brothers and cousins, all of them, bigger, smaller, they could have done the same thing. Um, it was very raw back then. It was one style against another. But I think my father knew I was a little more calm personality and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... it was, it w- gonna, I was go- gonna obey his orders. And his order was like, "Do not hurt your opponents."
- JRJoe Rogan
Now why was that so important to him?
- RGRoyce Gracie
To show the true art of jujitsu. If a cousin gets in there and beat the guy up with a elbow across the opponent's face, eh, he would have been impressive. Oh my God, he will shock everybody, but wouldn't show the technique.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
And my father and Rorion was, were concerned about showing the technique of just what we can do by dominating somebody bigger, stronger, without having to hurt them.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's so amazing that the, you guys had so much confidence in jujitsu that they wanted you to not hurt someone.
- RGRoyce Gracie
It's, that's the conversation I remember having with, with my father was like, "But Dad-... the guys with these bare knuckle, they're gonna hit me. He's like, "Don't worry. They will never hit you. They're not gonna, they're not gonna touch you. Don't worry." That's how much confidence he had.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RGRoyce Gracie
He's not gonna ... Don't take me wrong. My mother's order was s- totally different.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
My mother was like, "Your father doesn't know what he's talking about."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
"I wanna see some blood. Send him to the hospital." Mom was the mean one. (laughs)
- 7:31 – 10:03
Hélio’s mindset: defense-first jiu-jitsu and winning by forcing mistakes
- JRJoe Rogan
It is kind of crazy that ... 'Cause your father was so unusual. He had such an unusual mindset. And the fact that he had had those early matches, like, the matches with Kimura and, you know, uh, uh, all this, uh, Santana, all those different early matches, you know, that a lot of people don't even know about, that you can see online.
- RGRoyce Gracie
It was a, it was, um ... They wanna test themselves. So, Kimura haven't lost, not ... And not just not lost, but nobody lasts more than three minutes with him. And my father was like, "Okay. I wanna try." Heavier, younger. Waldemar Santana, heavier, younger. They fought for, like, three hours and 40 minutes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Phew.
- RGRoyce Gracie
One round straight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RGRoyce Gracie
So, it's ... Yeah. They, they just ... They wanna put it to the test. That was the main thing. They wanna s- see what they can do. But my father always said, "He wasn't a ... On how can he beat the opponents." He always told me, "Don't walk in to win. Walk in not to lose. If you don't lose, the question is how you're gonna beat him-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
"... if he makes a mistake." But the mentality was always not to lose.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, always be defensively minded.
- RGRoyce Gracie
W- we're giving the weight advantage to the opponents, so if I don't lose, we're gonna ... He always used to explain that way, "We're gonna play a ping pong game, so every time you put the ball on my side of the table, it doesn't matter where you put that ball, I'll put it back on the center of ... Yeah, I'll catch that ball, put it back on the center of the table." What am I doing? Playing the perfect defense game. When am I gonna lose? Never. So, when I'm gonna win? Now we have changed the question. When you miss the table-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... did I win? No, you're the one who made a mistake.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RGRoyce Gracie
You're the one who lost. If you're not, we're gonna play forever, if you don't make a mistake.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
So it was a very ... It's a defensive art.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
It's not a very aggressive.
- JRJoe Rogan
I've, I've heard, uh, Relson describe Jiu-Jitsu in that way. He said, uh, "Jiu-Jitsu is I do this, and then you do that, and then I do this, and then you do that forever."
- RGRoyce Gracie
Until somebody make a mistake.
- JRJoe Rogan
Until somebody make a mistake.
- RGRoyce Gracie
And see, I could have-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... made a mistake, too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
But if I don't make a mistake ... If you don't make a mistake, we're gonna play forever.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs) You know how it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes, yes.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs) We're gonna play. (laughs)
- 10:03 – 14:27
Early UFC realities: size mismatches, no rules, and first-fight pressure
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it was also it was perfect for you to be in it, because in the first UFC you were w- ... What did you weigh, about 176 pounds?
- RGRoyce Gracie
178.
- JRJoe Rogan
178. Crazy. And you were in there against gigantic guys. Like, C- what did Kimo weigh?
- RGRoyce Gracie
250.
- JRJoe Rogan
Pft. (laughs) 250 roided to the gills, huge-
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs) There was no testing.
- JRJoe Rogan
No testing.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Carrying a wooden cross into the octagon. That was crazy.
- RGRoyce Gracie
He was, he was raw. He was r- probably one of the strongest guys I fought.
- JRJoe Rogan
He was huge.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Kimo's raw strength.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Not the most technical, but he was pure strength. And I mess up on that one 'cause I tried to match strength with him. He got me tired.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
So, I tried ... I heard he was very strong-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... and I tried to match-
- JRJoe Rogan
There, here's him-
- RGRoyce Gracie
... strength with him.
- JRJoe Rogan
... walking in with the cross. I remember everybody was like, "What the hell is going on here?"
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) In Taekwondo.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was crazy.
- RGRoyce Gracie
I was like, I was like, "Go ahead. Carry that cross. It's heavy."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
It was solid wood, by the way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
That was heavy.
- 14:27 – 29:12
BJJ’s explosion in America: converting skeptics, doubling the academy, changing culture
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) It's so crazy. But then from that moment, from UFC1, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu exploded across the country, exploded.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Gracie Academy double size on, after the first UFC.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RGRoyce Gracie
After the second UFC, we double again size.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. This is in Torrance?
- RGRoyce Gracie
Torrance.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I, um, I started at Rickson's place, and then I went to Carlson Gracie's place 'cause I didn't know any better. It was closer. It was closer to me. It was on Hawthorne. That was when-
- RGRoyce Gracie
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
... uh, Vitor was making his debut in the UFC. Back when they were calling him Victor Gracie.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Yes. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It was UFC 12. And, uh, I remember the feeling of the first class, the feeling of sp- how humiliated you are when you don't know Jiu-Jitsu, and you spar with someone who knows Jiu-Jitsu. It's like you think you know how to fight, and then you get in there, and then all of a sudden you're on your back, you don't know what to do, and all of a sudden you're getting choked. And you're like, "Oh, no, this is crazy." Like, it was-
- RGRoyce Gracie
And you've been doing martial art for a long time already.
- JRJoe Rogan
My whole life. (laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
So ...
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, I had a d- completely distorted idea of my ability to fight, completely distorted. And I remember my first class, I was like, "Oh, boy, now I know."
- RGRoyce Gracie
It's like, uh, back in the garage days, there was some, there was always a student that bring a, a, a family friend or, or a family of member or coach from different styles of martial art. And they would come in, and they would come in to fight us. But we, Rorion and I, would have be like, "Okay, we're gonna control and turn him into a student."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
So we would take the guy down, mount, and pretty much talk to him, maybe choke, maybe armbar, let it go, not hurting. And the guy would go home and goes, "Oh man, can I sign up? Can I learn?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, because of the fact that you didn't hurt them. You, you could convert them into a student. If you beat the fuck out of them and just broke their face-
- RGRoyce Gracie
They would never come back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
So we were more concerned about gaining a student than trying to beat them up. They, but they would come in to fight. We would converting them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. Who's, who's th- Was it your father that was the mastermind behind doing it that way?
- RGRoyce Gracie
I think that was Rorion 'cause I ... Rorion was, was like my second father. I came to live with him. I was 17 going on 18. I came to America to live with Rorion.
- JRJoe Rogan
So Rorion was a lawyer, very smart, very calculated-
- RGRoyce Gracie
And we would teaching back in the garage days, teaching every day, private classes, half an hour private classes. Place look like a crack house. Every-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
... half an hour there's a person come in and leaving, coming and going, coming and going. (laughs) Then they was like, "What are they doing over there?" (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's am- amazing what started in that garage, if you really think about it.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Yeah.
- 29:12 – 45:32
How rule changes shape fighting: rounds, stand-ups, and what’s ‘realistic’
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's interesting now when you see the rules, the rules are set up much more for strikers and for wrestlers, because (clears throat) I've, I've been talking about this lately. Like say if you're a jujitsu guy and you're fighting in the first round, and it's, uh, rounds are five minutes long, and you take the guy down four minutes and 30 seconds, you only have 30 seconds to work. I feel like a fight should be, even if you're gonna make it rounds, the fight is the fight. I don't think someone should be able to get up. I don't think you should stand people up ever. I think once a guy takes you down, that's... the fight is on the ground. Then if it's boring for the audience, tough shit. If you're on the bottom, get up, and if you can't get up, tough shit. And if the round ends and then the new round begins, I think they should start you right back in the same place.
- RGRoyce Gracie
I think 'cause the... they're on the same weight division. Back then there was no weight division.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RGRoyce Gracie
But since the... so I don't... I would say, I would say the fight doesn't favor one person, one style or another.
- JRJoe Rogan
It doesn't favor it, but it gives a distinct advantage if you let a person stand up that didn't stand up. So if you start the second round, (clears throat) say, if, if you take me down with four minutes and 30 seconds to go and you're dominating me and you're closing in on me and you're about to tap me, but then the round ends and then we start, but now we start standing up. But I didn't earn that stand up. I just got to stand up because of the time. I feel like the r- the fight should be a fight. So if a fight is five rounds, that's a 25-minute fight. And I think whatever position that you're in at the end of that first round, you should begin in the second round. That's what I think 'cause-
- RGRoyce Gracie
I'm in favor of doing one round straight through.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that would be wild too.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I think one round... and maybe even no time limit.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... eh, no time limit is not good for the TV.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, no.
- RGRoyce Gracie
But make-
- JRJoe Rogan
But good for the internet.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... one 15-minute round.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh, yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
It's like, that's it, one 15 straight through, go straight-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... no, no rounds. Start, 15 minutes later, we'll stop.
- JRJoe Rogan
They should try that.
- RGRoyce Gracie
And if a... hey, if nobody wins, add another five minutes or 10 minutes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, overtime round.
- RGRoyce Gracie
You see, overtime.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, I think Pride had good rules, with a 10-minute first round was better. I think-
- RGRoyce Gracie
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... 10 minutes is better, especially if someone, like, works really hard. Again, 4 minutes, 30 seconds, you finally take the guy down, now you're on top. And now you're trying to set things up, but the bell rings, and then you start-
- RGRoyce Gracie
S-
- JRJoe Rogan
... standing up again.
- RGRoyce Gracie
S- yeah. They start standing up again, but then, yeah, I think put a 10-minute round, 15-minute, one-round straight through, man, it's safe. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
But I think they've... the problem is they've stopped changing the rules. The rules are the rules now, and they, they've kind of, like, solidified them and established them. But I don't think the rules are right. I think, I think if a guy takes you down, you should have to earn a stand-up. You have to get back up to your feet. So if the fight ends, and-
- RGRoyce Gracie
With one mounted on top-
- 45:32 – 1:00:05
Cage design and spectacle: sharks, barbed wire, and other rejected UFC 1 ideas
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... away the cage. I think the cage helps people too, 'cause it helps people stand back up. It helps you, if you get a guy down, and you get a guy down in an open room, like say a basketball court.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, there's nothing to help him get back up.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Okay, hold on. Time out over here.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
Now you brought some memories over here.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
First UFC, it was John Millers, um, the producer for, uh, Conan the Destroyer.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Dir- The father of Dirty Harry, the, the Clint Eastwood. He's in charge of creating the cage. But before the cage, they come up with some ideas, they present to me. I was like, "Wait a minute, hold on." They're like, "How about if we make a, a, a r- a round ring with a pit undern- with a pit-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Around it.
- RGRoyce Gracie
"... with sharks."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
I was like, "Hold on." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
"Imagine if I fight a sumo wrestler, and just bump me off, and poof, fall off the sharks, he would eat you." He's like, "Yeah, yeah, we should put piranhas because you're from Brazil. We should put..." What? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
What? (laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
The ideas they had. How about a, a, a b- like a bowl, and people try to get off, but you can't, because it'd be slippery. You can't climb off-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... the walls, the side. But then they didn't have the angles for the camera. And how about putting a, um... They tried the octagon, but with barbed wires.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God.
- RGRoyce Gracie
I was like, "Dude, imagine if I got somebody big and just push me against and hang me on top."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
"Oh, yeah, that's right. Let's make it electrical fence."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
I was like, "Really?" The ideas they had, man, it's... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
It was like, well, if I fight some... Everybody I'm gonna fight is gonna be bigger than me. The guy push me against the fence, he can fry me (clapping hands) against the fence.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 1:00:05 – 1:08:57
Endurance as a weapon: marathon runs, long fights, and mental pressure without a bell
- JRJoe Rogan
What was training (clears throat) like for you, like during UFC 1?
- RGRoyce Gracie
Training. I never really party, so I, I understand because I'm on that philosophy. I would say good... I... Before, like a month, two months before the fights, a month before the fight, when I was fighting in Japan, when I went to fight in Japan, a month before the fight, I would move out of the house. So I don't have to deal with the, with the kids, with the woman, nothing. So month before. And Rorik would come over and have a talk with me and my father and it's like, "Okay, there's no babysitting. There's no hanging out with the kids." Yep, none of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just Spartan training.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Pretty much, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And...
- RGRoyce Gracie
And I understand. I was like, "Okay. I'm a soldier, man. You tell me to do it, I'll do it." Uh, there's not, there's not a doubt, you see? They say, "Do it," done. So you cannot hang around with the kids and babysit and the kids are literally all grown now, but...... it's like, "Nope. Okay. I can cut it off, not a problem."
- JRJoe Rogan
And what-
- RGRoyce Gracie
A lot of discipline on that, to say goodbye to the family. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
You gotta go train, you gotta go spend a month away.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what was the day's training like? Did you do any strength and conditioning back then? Or was it all just jujitsu training and, and position training, and drills?
- RGRoyce Gracie
It was a lot of, uh, in that order. You have to know what you're doing. That's how I learned from my family. You have to have endurance, then comes power. Yes, I did a lot of the strength and conditioning, but a lot of endurance. Endurance was before the strength and strength.
- JRJoe Rogan
So let-
- RGRoyce Gracie
So even till today, it's like, it's knowledge. If you don't know how to fight-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... you have no business in the cage.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RGRoyce Gracie
But then, you know how to fight and you have a lot of power, but you can't last more than two minutes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Not good.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Uh-oh, you're in trouble.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. (laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
So you have to know what you're doing, you have to have endurance to last at least the first round (laughs) , five minutes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Then becomes power.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what kind of endurance training would you do?
- RGRoyce Gracie
Oh, endurance, everything from running, to swimming, to... Strength coach and I one time got up and was like, "Okay." The guy, he used to be the strength coach for, strength coach for USC, for the Rams when they were in LA. James, man, went for a 41-mile run. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
41 miles?
- RGRoyce Gracie
One day. (laughs)
- 1:08:57 – 1:13:06
The wider Gracie ecosystem: Rickson’s path, family ‘factory,’ and modern BJJ level
- JRJoe Rogan
How come Rickson never fought in the UFC? D- Was there ever a moment where he almost came over?
- RGRoyce Gracie
I think because I was fighting the, uh... In the UFC, if you not... It was tournament back then. So, if both of us fought-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... we end up facing each other.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RGRoyce Gracie
It's like, "Ugh." So I think he- he just... That's why he decided to go to Japan.
- JRJoe Rogan
But when you st- when you stopped fighting in the UFC, was there ever a moment where they were trying to get Rickson to come over?
- RGRoyce Gracie
I don't know if they approach him, but he was already successful.
- JRJoe Rogan
Already huge in Japan.
- RGRoyce Gracie
He was su- successful in Japan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
And they kept him busy over there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
So, Rickson was beating up the heavyweights in Japan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he was beating up everybody over there.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the thing that, unfortunately in America, people weren't aware of like Japan Vale Tudo and all the different... And then the original Pride, you know, when he fought Takada, when he fought all those guys over there, and Funaki.
- RGRoyce Gracie
The original, the first Vale Tudo, yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's... Fortunately, we have Choke, the- the documentary.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, people get a chance to see it from that.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Rickson was a beast, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh my God, yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that was the crazy thing. When you were winning the UFC, you were telling everybody, "Hey, my brother is even better than me." And everybody was like, "What?"
- RGRoyce Gracie
By a 100 times. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
Not by a little bit. (laughs)
- 1:13:06 – 1:19:43
Gordon Ryan, Kaizen, and the discipline argument (Dagestan parallels)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's extraordinary. It really is. When you watch, um, jujitsu now, you know... Do you- do you watch jujitsu, like, No Gi Jujitsu? Do you watch these guys?
- RGRoyce Gracie
Hmm. I'm not- I'm not-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, when you see guys like Gordon Ryan?
- RGRoyce Gracie
I'm- I'm not big in tournament. Gordon Ryan is awesome, man. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's his belt right there.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's his abudane belt.
- RGRoyce Gracie
The... We- (laughs) We met up with a friend of ours, uh, Derek, uh-... we met up with him. We were teaching him in Chicago, and he very respectful. Gordon Ryan came up, he's like, "Man, can we roll a little bit?" I was like, "Sure, let's roll." It was, it wasn't too long ago, maybe, um, a year ago, or less than a year ago. And the guy's a beast, man. It's like, fucking... And I was like, I know of him.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
So, he's very respectful, we're going very light and he's going easy on me. And I was like, "Okay, um, go ahead, catch me." And he wouldn't.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RGRoyce Gracie
And he'd turn around, and I can feel him giving to me, it's like, "Now you take me." Without talking.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RGRoyce Gracie
And I was like, "There's no way I'm gonna take," 'cause this wouldn't be believable. There's no way I can tap him.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
And I'm... Okay, and I give it to him back something. And he's, like, pretending he doesn't see it, and he's giving me something back to me.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
At the point that I start laughing. I was like, "Dude, (laughs) really?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
I'm giving the arm and he's giving me the neck-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
... and I'm giving the tri-hander and he's giving me this (laughs) . We're, like, both giving tri-hander, but very respectful, man. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's funny. Well, you're talking... Well, I talk about discipline, that guy works out 365 days a year. There's no Christmas. Christmas? Fuck you. Your birthday? Fuck you. Every day. They train every day.
- RGRoyce Gracie
And I told him, people misunderstanding what he's saying. He's challenging people. I said, "That's good."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
Um, that's what my family did. You say you're good, I'm saying I'm good, there's only one way to find out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RGRoyce Gracie
And I told him, "Keep doing it, 'cause that will push people." You see? Yep, that's us training. (laughs) Look at... We were going so light, he's going so easy on me, and I'm giving to him, "Go ahead, catch me." And he was like, put the hand and doesn't catch. And I was like, "Really?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RGRoyce Gracie
(laughs) And then he'll give me something, and I was like, "Okay, you take." I was like, "No, you take." (laughs)
Episode duration: 2:03:47
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