JRE MMA Show #157 with Craig Jones

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (gong sound) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) How you doing? What's going on? I like the one ear side.

   2. CJCraig Jones0:15

      Oh, thank you. Yeah, ƒ-

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      That's professional. A lot of guys do that.

   4. CJCraig Jones0:17

      Help my hearing. Hey, it's fading in my old age.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      Do you have, um, fucked-up ears 'cause of the cauliflower? Does it fuck up your hearing?

   6. CJCraig Jones0:24

      Yeah, just one of them. I thought it was cool until the inner ear started to swell and it was messing with my hearing. And I was like-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      Yeah.

   8. CJCraig Jones0:30

      I was like, "That's not cool anymore."

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:31

      Did you get it fixed?

   10. CJCraig Jones0:32

       I just face it at the women I'm talking to.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       (laughs)

   12. CJCraig Jones0:35

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Did you get it fixed or do...

   14. CJCraig Jones0:37

       Oh, it eventually drained out, but that's as good as it's gonna get, I think.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Yeah. I've, I always wore, uh, ear guards. I was always scared of the ears. 'Cause it just, it, there, there's a design. Like, it helps capture sound and bring it into your ear.

   16. CJCraig Jones0:51

       I didn't know the AirPods were coming. That threw a curveball when I called this one 'cause-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Oh, right.

   18. CJCraig Jones0:55

       ... I can't use the AirPods now.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       'Cause you can't stuff them in there?

   20. CJCraig Jones0:56

       I jam them in, but they pop back out.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       (laughs) Yeah. You gotta wear over-the-ears. So, uh, let's talk about your tournament.

   22. CJCraig Jones1:03

       The tournament. All right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       What, where did, where did this come from, first of all?

   24. CJCraig Jones1:07

       Well-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       'Cause you've competed at Abu Dhabi. This is what I don't understand.

   26. CJCraig Jones1:10

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       You're, you're, uh, b- you're gonna go head-to-head with ADCC, which is the biggest-

   28. CJCraig Jones1:17

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       ... grappling organization in the world. By the way, that's Gordon Ryan's belt up there. If you wanna look at it.

   30. CJCraig Jones1:21

       Gordon Ryan. Oh, mate. I might take that home with me, hey. (laughs)
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Well, I'm sponsored by…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      that, uh, everyone knows that the athletes are on juice.

   2. CJCraig Jones15:04

      Well, I'm sponsored by a local company called Evertine. And I, uh, this is the sad thing. I tell people, "Hey, I'm on TRT and I'm sponsored by them." And no one believes me. They're like, "You look so out of shape. There's no way."

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      (laughs)

   4. CJCraig Jones15:14

      "He's just joking." And I'm like, "No, believe me. I'm taking it serious."

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      Do you lift weights?

   6. CJCraig Jones15:18

      I mean, sometimes, yeah. I might- (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:21

      Sometimes? (laughs) Every now and then?

   8. CJCraig Jones15:22

      Yeah. Honestly, I'm the worst example of athlete ever. I don't stretch, don't do any recovery, I don't sleep properly.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:26

      You don't stretch at all?

   10. CJCraig Jones15:27

       No. I just go easy the first round. I feel like then pushing on my legs.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:31

       (laughs)

   12. CJCraig Jones15:31

       Just sort of like hit my belly. I think if you get a bad injury, that's a sign maybe it's time to hang it up, you know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       So, when you train, all you do is just jujitsu? You don't, you don't like-

   14. CJCraig Jones15:41

       I do a little bit of lifting. But man, fucking I don't even track anything. I'll just be like, "Oh, that seems like enough lifting for today."

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       Really?

   16. CJCraig Jones15:47

       Yeah, that's it.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       Do you ever wonder, like if you did, uh, like hire like a serious, like strength and conditioning coach and really get after it, it would make a difference in your performance?

   18. CJCraig Jones15:59

       Maybe. But I mean, like, I mean, if there was a million dollars on the line, maybe. But...

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:03

       (laughs)

   20. CJCraig Jones16:03

       That's a lot of fucking work.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:04

       But, but it's your whole life. I mean, you're a professional jujitsu guy.

   22. CJCraig Jones16:08

       I mean, I love the technique and the strategy aspect of it. You know, like sometimes when I've lifted or taken more steroids than usual, it's like, uh, I'm starting to overly rely on my strength.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CJCraig Jones16:17

       I, what I love about jujitsu is laying traps, tricking people-

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:20

       Mm-hmm.

   26. CJCraig Jones16:20

       ... making people feel silly. That's the part I like.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Right.

   28. CJCraig Jones16:23

       R- rather than just... I wanna look jacked just for me, not for much.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:27

       (laughs) But don't you think even with the laying traps and just overall your ability to move would be enhanced?

   30. CJCraig Jones16:34

       It's true, but if I, I mean, if I looked too jacked and I went by the instructionals, they'd be like, "Can't fucking do it with that guy, dawg."
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Right. …

   1. CJCraig Jones30:00

      like, when he keeps doing these impossible things, you believe in the myth of your guy more and more.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      Right.

   3. CJCraig Jones30:05

      And other fighters do too. They go, "Oh, we couldn't, we couldn't submit him. Look how deep Ortega was."

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      Well, it's his heart. His heart is just unstoppable.

   5. CJCraig Jones30:12

      But I think when a guy gets clipped like that, everyone else goes... They suddenly have a bit more self-belief. So I think-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      Yes.

   7. CJCraig Jones30:18

      It's like two, two factors.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:19

      Yeah, I think you're probably right. But I think Topuria thought he was gonna do that to him anyway. But the, the... I would just love to have seen him fully recover from that. Like when Manny Pacquiao got knocked out by Marquez, Freddie Roach wouldn't let him do anything for a year. He's like, "You're gonna take one year off." He's like, "This is the only way. You, you have to..." And Freddie Roach, who has trauma-induced Parkinson's from his boxing career, he's well aware of the impact of brain damage and-You know, it's, it's so tricky because I'm just such a huge Volk fan that I just like, ugh. I wish I had his ear. I, I don't know if would've listened to me. But if I, I had his ear.

   9. CJCraig Jones30:57

      I think that's what makes those guys special though is that they d- they're like, "It's the self-belief."

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:01

       100%.

   11. CJCraig Jones31:02

       You know?

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       That's what makes you a champion. You cannot become a Volkanovski without this unstoppable belief in yourself.

   13. CJCraig Jones31:07

       Me and him are the complete opposite, hey. If someone was like, "Bro, you're probably gonna lose," I'm like, "Yeah, you make a good point."

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       (laughs)

   15. CJCraig Jones31:12

       I'm like, "How much are they paying you?" You know? We're complete opposite in ev- He takes everything super serious, sporting, everything. I don't know how we've blended together. I'm able to coach him somehow.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:21

       Well, you're very technical. I mean, the, the thing about your, uh, you know, joking around and being silly about it all is like, you are, but your technique is very, very good, obviously. You, you are obviously are one of the elite guys in the world when it comes to technique. So it's not ... Y- you are serious.

   17. CJCraig Jones31:41

       Yeah, I mean, personality type, you know?

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       Yeah.

   19. CJCraig Jones31:43

       Like, but I guess we have the Australian, Australian bond. He has faith in me, more faith in me than the guy that gave me this, I think. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:50

       (laughs)

   21. CJCraig Jones31:50

       They both probably shouldn't, though.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:51

       What is, uh, Volk up to now? Do you, do you talk to him?

   23. CJCraig Jones31:54

       I think he's, he's in Thailand training at Bang Tao with his, uh ... So Volk's wrestling coach, Frank Hickman, they have a gym in Thailand so he's out in Bang Tao getting some work in. I wanna get him a grappling match. I said to him, I said, "Man, like, uh, if we're gonna take some time away 'cause of the concussions, let's get you a grappling match." And my thought was, how like cool would it be to see him and Ortega have a grappling match?

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:13

       Oh my God, that would be incredible.

   25. CJCraig Jones32:14

       I would just love to see it in that setting 'cause Ortega obviously struggled to submit him in MMA.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:18

       Yeah.

   27. CJCraig Jones32:19

       Let's see what happens in a grappling match.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:20

       Right, with no gloves too. Yeah, that would be very interesting. Ortega's very good on the ground. He's very sneaky too.

   29. CJCraig Jones32:28

       Yeah, so is he, yeah. He's super slick. He pulled, he, man, he catches some crazy shit out there.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:32

       Mm-hmm.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. CJCraig Jones45:00

      I will always have time for some of the real good guys out there. Like, obviously, Izzy, awesome. I'd always make time for Izzy. Jack Della from Perth.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:07

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CJCraig Jones45:07

      See, like guys like that, just super cool guys. I'd always find time to help them.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:12

      Yeah, Jack Della, what a big win he got over Gilbert. I mean, that was-

   5. CJCraig Jones45:15

      Man, I steal moves off him. I remember when he went in the Contender Series, he hit a, like a maki komi reversal in the first round of the Contender Series fight and I was just blown away by his grappling. And I've been watching it since. And his reversal of Gilbert Burns was crazy, you know?

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:27

      Yeah, very crazy.

   7. CJCraig Jones45:28

      Trained, I've trained with him and I'm just like, I steal moves from him.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:31

      Hmm.

   9. CJCraig Jones45:31

      Like he's, man, he's so good at grappling.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:34

       (smacks lips) Yeah, he's very good at striking too. He's, in my opinion, he's like one of the best in the sport at mixing up shots from the body to the head. 'Cause so many fighters, for whatever reason, are headhunters, you know? And 'cause you can knock a guy out with one shot. But Jack is so good at mixing shots up to the body and to the head. I mean, he just breaks guys down.

   11. CJCraig Jones45:53

       It's g- Yeah, it's, man, he's a scary guy. I was lucky actually 'cause before the Topuria fight, we were able to sort of link up. So it was like, uh, he came out to, uh, Wollongong and trained. Izzy came out at the same time. So I got to watch Jack Della and Izzy mix it up and then them train with Volks. And for me, even as an MMA fan, it's like I have to pinch myself sometimes and be like, "Wow, that's amazing." It's just like putting on this thing, when I'm talking to these guys about super fights, it's the dream. As just a grappling fan, I'm just thinking, "Oh, what could we do? Who could we convince into this event?" You know? Like just as, from a pure fan perspective, it is pretty fun-

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:28

       No.

   13. CJCraig Jones46:28

       ... in those aspects.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:28

       I'm, I'm sure. It's, it's gonna be interesting to see whether or not this can work. Um, 'cause a lot of people have like looked at the UFC model and said, "Hey, athletes should be getting paid more money." And so they put on these events and d- none of them are profitable. I mean, maybe Bellator was, and they sold Bellator, and then there's the PFL. I don't know how they do financially, but they have the same sort of similar thing. They have a tournament, at the end of the tournament, the guy wins a million dollars.

   15. CJCraig Jones46:52

       But, a- he, my point is, right, is like if you're an Olympic champion or if you're a UFC champion, it has so much prestige that every single person in the world knows what it is. It has this intrinsic value.

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:04

       Yeah.

   17. CJCraig Jones47:04

       If you say you're an IBJJF champion or an ADCC champion, a very small percentage of the population know that. So it's like, that's... Case in point, we've put on a tournament with much more money, everyone jumps ships 'cause they know that's money. Whereas like obviously a Olympic gold medal, that's timeless. That's, that's j- that crosses all sports, you know? That crosses into culture.

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:26

       How many guys are jumping ship?

   19. CJCraig Jones47:29

       I mean, I'll tell you afterwards, but... (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:30

       So is it public that they're jumping ship or are they not talking about it or?

   21. CJCraig Jones47:36

       Well, we got 16 spot sh- spots in under and over, and I'm f- navigating through who wants to be in there, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:44

       16 spots each. So 32 total?

   23. CJCraig Jones47:46

       So I'm, I'm trying to navigate through the best guys we can get and it's like everyone wants in, you know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:52

       Really?

   25. CJCraig Jones47:52

       Every-

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:52

       So no one's worried about the repercussions or the s- the blowback from ADCC?

   27. CJCraig Jones47:56

       Nah, 'cause I think they see it as, "Wow, I could get the money to show."

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:00

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CJCraig Jones48:01

       Like, I mean, say, so the Tackett brothers, local Texas guys.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:04

       Mm-hmm.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:05:19

   Oh. …

   1. CJCraig Jones1:00:00

      textbooks. And then I started buying the instructionals. Like, I m- I had Kaori Parisians Judo For MMA.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

      Oh.

   3. CJCraig Jones1:00:06

      I had Ryan Hales. He, he was one of ... He really changed the game with instructionals in the early days, so like stealing all his moves. And then I learned about the world of torrent sites and I started illegally acquiring every instructional I could. And then we'd try to self-learn on the mats studying these and then drilling the moves. That's really-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:24

      Oh.

   5. CJCraig Jones1:00:24

      So I was really self-taught up until purple belt, really just focused on using instructionals.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:29

      And then where'd you go for purple belt after that?

   7. CJCraig Jones1:00:31

      Then I moved to Melbourne with Lachlan Giles and basically was like, two and a half years there and then two and a half years with John.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:38

      That's a crazy little amount of time.

   9. CJCraig Jones1:00:40

      Yeah, I didn't spend ... That's what ... That's the thing a lot of people ... O- obviously they just notice when you achieve something, you know what I mean?

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CJCraig Jones1:00:45

       So like, I trained s- by myself a long time before I was able to join any big teams.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:51

       What do you think attributed to your success?

   13. CJCraig Jones1:00:55

       I think t- uh, I mean, h- honestly, I don't know. I put in the work in the early days for sure. And then studying, studying, studying. And then just being at the forefront of the leg lock sort of saga, you know?

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

       Hmm.

   15. CJCraig Jones1:01:06

       Like I got in at the right time. I saw techniques in the gi, like the berimbolo that were just a new technique that would wipe the floor with e- experienced black belts. You, you could use it on people you had no business beating. Those are the techniques I wanted. And I saw the Danaher guys use heel hooks and I was like, "Man..."If I, as a purple belt, can submit some black belts, I'm like, that's fucking ... that's, that's the way I gotta go.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:28

       And so how did you wind up training with John and the ...

   17. CJCraig Jones1:01:32

       Well, I mean, I would ju- o- obviously Australia's far away. Hard for us, me to keep doing that 16-hour journey back and forth. I wanted to stay in America. So I just started doing my camps there. That was the best place to do it. It was like a hundred people in the room doing no-gi. Obviously it had that DDS squad there, that was awesome. Danaher Focus. At that time, there really weren't too many places in the world that would take no-gi as seriously as those guys.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:56

       How bad was the staph infections going around down there?

   19. CJCraig Jones1:01:59

       I got staph every month.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

       (laughs)

   21. CJCraig Jones1:02:01

       Every month there. I'm-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:02

       How the fuck is that possible?

   23. CJCraig Jones1:02:05

       I got w- I got it under my eye one time and the guy was, the doctor was like, "Bro, if hits your eye, you're fucked." I was like, "Oh, that's reassuring. Hey, thank you." But yeah, every month I was on it. I remember I, I used to go trips to Mexico to get some medicine. So I'd go down there, buy a bunch of doxycycline, buy like 90 tablets of it. I'd just sit on it and keep taking them. Used to buy my steroids down in Mexico too.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:25

       But isn't that, that's probably what fucked Gordon's stomach up.

   25. CJCraig Jones1:02:29

       The steroids? I mean-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:30

       No, I mean the, the antibiotics.

   27. CJCraig Jones1:02:32

       Oh. (laughs) Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:33

       I don't think the steroids help.

   29. CJCraig Jones1:02:34

       Well, I mean, yeah, probably, probably a bit of everything. Who knows? Yeah. The anti, the antibiotics definitely not good for you.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:39

       But when you're on antibiotic ... He was on antibiotics for a year straight, which first of all is crazy because the amount of discipline it takes to train that much while you're on antibiotics. For people who don't know, antibiotics wreck your cardio, just wreck your physical strength, wreck your, your vitality. I got staph once and I remember I took antibiotics and, and I don't think I'd ever taken antibiotics before while I was training. And, um, when I was recovering from staph, I was like, "This is nuts. I feel like I'm 50%." You're at 50%. Like when Luke Rockhold beat Chris Weidman, he was on antibiotics.

Episode duration: 2:09:39