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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #158 with Tank Abbott

Joe sits down with David “Tank” Abbott, a retired professional mixed martial artist, former pro wrestler, and pioneer in the world of combat sports. www.ufc.com/athlete/tank-abbott

Joe RoganhostDavid “Tank” Abbottguest
Jun 6, 20242h 11mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 15:00

    (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. JR

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Yeah. All right. What's happening, baby? Good to see you.

    4. DA

      Oh, likewise. It's been a long road for both of us.

    5. JR

      It has been a long road, man.

    6. DA

      Yes.

    7. JR

      I- I think I first met you in 1997.

    8. DA

      Hmm, I don't know the dates, but-

    9. JR

      (laughs)

    10. DA

      ... I- I remember meeting you officially, or in my memory, in New Orleans or somewhere around there, um, when I was sitting, like, in an auditorium and you came in and sat down next to me. And at that time, uh, people used to bother me all the time.

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. DA

      And so I was getting some fresh air and, uh, away from everyone, and, uh, you came up and sat down and I was, in my head I was like, "Oh no, I just want some peace."

    13. JR

      (laughs)

    14. DA

      And, uh, you rolled up and you were totally cool and I was like, "Oh that guy's cool." And we had a good session rapping.

    15. JR

      Yeah, I remember first meeting y- y- you know, when you talk about like the early days of the UFC, like you- you are one of the real original legends of MMA.

    16. DA

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      I mean, you were one of the very first guys, and you were one of the very first guys... First of all, you're one of the very first guys, if not the first, to wear gloves.

    18. DA

      Hmm.

    19. JR

      Which I always thought was very smart. I know Vitor I think was one of the first?

    20. DA

      No.

    21. JR

      Who was the very first? Was it you?

    22. DA

      I don't know, but the- the people out there in, uh, the, uh, internet world say this Melton Bowen guy. He was a striker/boxer kinda guy in the early UFCs. I did not get the idea from him at all. And who was the other guy with the one glove, boxing glove?

    23. JR

      Oh yeah, he just died recently. Damn it.

    24. DA

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      I forgot his name. Goddamn it.

    26. DA

      It was back in the days with, uh, Fred Edish.

    27. JR

      Art Jimmerson, Art Jimmerson.

    28. DA

      Yes.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. DA

      And, and-

  2. 15:00 – 30:00

    (laughs) …

    1. DA

      And, um, back in those days, um, I had wrestled, and then on my, uh, 19th birthday, um, I was hoping to go on. I had one year of wrestling in junior college, and, um, a dumb drunk friend of mine drove into a light pole on my birthday. That's why my teeth got all knocked out. And, um, it also put a gash right underneath my knee, and mangled my knee, on my left knee. And, um, so my wrestling, I came back, like, halfway, uh, maybe a third of the way into the season, and I just could... I, I didn't have enough time to get whatever. It's, it's all written, meaning spiritually. And so, I didn't perform the way I wanted to perform my sophomore year. I, I did not continue, no one was interested in me. I... So the whole time, as a young man, I wanted to box. And my mother said, "Absolutely not. Not the CTE, and everybody boxes is stupid, and you're not going to do that." And I'm like, "Oh, man." So I didn't have anything to do. I was 18 years old, and I said, "You know what? I wanna box." And the same guy that... It was back when Mike Tyson was on fire, and he was the baddest man on the planet. And I was a young man, I go, "Not my planet." And, uh, so, you know, he would obviously kill me in boxing, but I... There's not a boxing ring on every corner. And so I was all fired up with that. So same guy that I worked for at the, uh, uh, clothing company, where they cut and sew type thing, it was for medical, uh, clothing. He lived up, uh, San Luis Obispo way, and he started boxing. And we were at a, you know, just like what you would think, going into a boxing gym and learning how to box. And I go, "Man, I wanna box." And he said, "Well, come on up, and then you'll... I'll introduce you to my trainer, and maybe, you know..." A- anyways, that got the ball started rolling, basically. So went up to San Luis Obispo, and there's a boxing gym just outside of there. Atascadero or something like that. And, uh, so I went to the gym, and it's like you see these reels where these guys all... They'll... You learn a skill, like boxing, and then you... Somebody that comes in that's a complete novice has no clue...... of what's going on and they, they take advantage of these people. "Oh, you think you're tough? You wanna box? Well, if you don't know how to box..." So that was the vibe when I went into the boxing gym. And I go, "Hey, yeah, I wanna box. Yeah, sure. I'll do this." And he goes, "Are you sure?" I'm like, "Yeah." So they go, "Well, you wanna spar?" And they're all snickering. "You wanna spar?" And I'm like, "Yeah, isn't that what we're in here for? Isn't that what you do?"

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. DA

      And they're like, "Oh, no, you gotta, you have to learn." And I'm like, "Okay." So they go ... They're like all kind of like chuckling, going, "Oh ho, he wants to spar." And, um, so they went and got a mouthpiece from a local, like, uh, what do you call those stores? Um, sporting goods store. And, uh, he comes back and they were trying to melt it in coffee-

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. DA

      ... and all that kinda stuff. And so, um, this guy's, uh, got a name, very big name, uh, from the '70s in boxing. And I, I don't need to talk about, his family has a big name. And, uh-

    6. JR

      You can't say his name?

    7. DA

      N- I don't-

    8. JR

      Okay.

    9. DA

      There's no point in it.

    10. JR

      Okay.

    11. DA

      Yeah, it's ... I- I could, but, oh, I was training with this guy and he did this guy. I have it on videotape and all that kinda stuff, so it's not like I'm making up stories. I, I'm ... The antithesis of trying to get myself over, I try to just go, "No, no, no." You know. So I get in there and I go ... And they're all like, "Oh, this is gonna be great." And this guy is a heavyweight, and he had like eight professional fights. And I believe they thought they were gonna use his name and push him and get him some money somehow. And so I'm like, "Okay." And I go ... Like, they ... I've put boxing gloves on and hit the bag and played around and sparred with people. But I'm like, "Okay, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna do it."

    12. JR

      (laughs) Let's see.

    13. DA

      Yeah, and I, I knocked the living snot out of him. I just-

    14. JR

      Really?

    15. DA

      Yeah. I just said, "Fuck it." I don't know, can you cuss on this or whatever?

    16. JR

      Yeah, you can cuss.

    17. DA

      Yeah. But I said, "Okay." I wasn't sparring, like skillfully boxing. I was like, "Let's go." And we win.

    18. JR

      And you had already had a bunch of street fights?

    19. DA

      Yes.

    20. JR

      And you knew how to hit things?

    21. DA

      Yes.

    22. JR

      And power is something you either have or you don't have.

    23. DA

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      And you've always had crazy power.

    25. DA

      Yes. That's-

    26. JR

      So if someone underestimates you and someone thinks, "Well, this guy," so they let their guard down, get a real- little relaxed, think they're just gonna tee off on you?

    27. DA

      Hm. No. He thought he was gonna hand it to me.

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. DA

      And I was like, "All right. You'll see what's gonna happen." And-

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  3. 30:00 – 45:00

    If you, uh, put…

    1. JR

      There's another element, and that's what you're talking about.

    2. DA

      If you, uh, put it to UFC 6, that was the, uh, awakening of the guillotine choke because the rest... You had...... jiu-jitsu, and then wrestlers came along and started, uh, handing it to the submission jiu-jitsu guys. And, um, then UFC 6 came along and they came up with the guillotine. Now, if you... They, uh... Oleg got the guillotine on me twice, and I fought myself out of it. I don't... I've never timed it or whatever, but it was a while. I was losing consciousness, I was seeing black. But I got... I pulled myself out. And the fact you brought up the, uh, fish hooks, when I finally... The first time, he got it and I pulled my head out and he was laying there, and I'm like, "What are you gonna do now?" And then I reached down and fish hooked him and started banging his head on the floor.

    3. JR

      When you look-

    4. DA

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      ... back at yourself then, does that even seem like you?

    6. DA

      Yeah. Why not?

    7. JR

      (laughs) I mean, it just-

    8. DA

      (laughs)

    9. JR

      I mean (laughs) , of course it is you.

    10. DA

      Uh-huh.

    11. JR

      But, I mean, the, the young hulking you smashing guys.

    12. NA

      This was also just the one round, correct?

    13. JR

      Yes.

    14. DA

      No, there-

    15. NA

      Like a 17-minute round?

    16. DA

      Yeah. Th- there's no rounds.

    17. JR

      Was it, uh... Did they have a-

    18. DA

      Uh-

    19. JR

      ... time limit on any of the fights?

    20. DA

      No. And, uh, I would have won that fight if Big John McCartney wouldn't have, uh, stuck his, uh, his melon in between us and break us up. You know, that's how... You were talking about how they, uh, fix the fights and everything, he, he broke this fight up. They sh- there were no rules, n- n- not supposed to, to do... Look, he's breaking us up. Why'd he do that?

    21. JR

      Why did they do that?

    22. DA

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      Were people booing?

    24. DA

      Yeah. That was all John McCart- McCartney. He... Why did he break us up?

    25. JR

      I don't know. Like, what were the rules back then as far as like, like I-

    26. DA

      There were no rules. He... All... You... All they had to do is give him a track, uh, starting gun and he could stand there and go boom. And that, that's all he needed to do.

    27. JR

      He just had to start the fight?

    28. DA

      He, he, he, he is a-

    29. JR

      And so this, this restart was just completely because of him?

    30. DA

      Yes. Yes.

  4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

    Yeah. …

    1. JR

      theorist?

    2. DA

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      (laughs)

    4. DA

      A cynic.

    5. JR

      I see where you would feel that way, and I think, um, in the early days... You know, one of the things that Dana White does a really good job about is, like, he kinda ha- he lets... He talks to everybody.

    6. DA

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JR

      Have conversations with people. Sit, sit people down, talk to them, explain this is great, this is not so great, you know, this is what we think we could do with you. Like, d- no, back then-

    8. DA

      No.

    9. JR

      ... it was chaos.

    10. DA

      Yes, absolutely.

    11. JR

      It was chaos. And a referee today, they're allowed to stand people up.

    12. DA

      Right.

    13. JR

      But back then-

    14. DA

      No, no, no, no. Th-

    15. JR

      ... that wasn't-

    16. DA

      I understand completely what you're saying.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. DA

      But back in the da- those days, those, those guys set up a lot of stuff.

    19. JR

      What'd they set up?

    20. DA

      All right, it won't come to me r- right off, but I, I will tell you.

    21. JR

      Okay. The, da- what are you, d- well, n- I don't wanna put you on the spot.

    22. DA

      No.

    23. JR

      So you think that they had, uh, people that they wanted to win, so they made things-

    24. DA

      Hm, absolutely.

    25. JR

      ... work a, a particular way? Well-

    26. DA

      Like the, the Don Frye fight. Um, him fighting is n- uh, the, uh, people comment, "It's not his friend." Who... Mark Hall, that guy went out and did the job for Frye.

    27. JR

      It looks like he did.

    28. DA

      He... Well, no, he didn't. I mean, come on.

    29. JR

      Yeah, it looks like it when you watch the fight.

    30. DA

      Yeah, he did.

  5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

    Right. …

    1. DA

      be in the show, not five, but six." And I'm like, "Oh, man," and you know, you're a young man, and your patience is like, "Are you... I can't wait that long. I need, I need like tomorrow, you know?"

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. DA

      And, uh, I was like, "Whatever." So I go, "Okay, just work with it. We'll, we'll, you can train." And so...... a r- a wrestler that, uh, was, you know, wrestling, everybody knows the world in college wrestling. And this guy worked for a, uh, a volleyball company, clothing company called Club Sportswear. And, um, they used to sponsor volleyball players. And so Eddie knew him. I think they used to live together or somebody lived with them that knew him. And he called up and said, "Hey, Dave's gonna be in that UFC show." And so he goes, "Okay." And he goes, "Well, um, do you guys want to sponsor him?" And I don't know anything about anything, sponsor, what that, whatever. And he goes, "Uh, let me ask my boss." And he goes, "Yeah, sure." You know, this was new. He goes, "Yeah, we'll give him some clothes to wear and all that kinda stuff." And he goes, "Well, he wanted a air line ticket to go back and watch the show." I think it was UFC 5 in Charlotte. And, uh, so they sends, he sends me a ticket, and I'm like, "Wow, this is..." you know, and I'm a kid. In my head I was a kid, but not chronologically. I was a forever college student. And so, uh, I'm flying there and I'm like going, "Man, this is so cool, these people that do this for me." And they gave me, like, bags full of clothes. I was like, "Wow, even socks and everything." Like, that was, like, crazy. (laughing) You know? That's-

    4. NA

      (laughs)

    5. DA

      ... where I was in that time of life. And so we get there and I had a big club bag and I go, and they go, "Yeah, just try to get on TV, man, just so we can see our stuff." Well, I get to Charlotte and, uh, I walk in and it was like a, the lobby of a hotel. It was, like, a two-story hotel, but it was a nicer, like a suites kinda hotel. It wasn't dumpy. And, uh, everybody in the lobby had their desk out and at that time, it was martial arts. And it was Kung Fu Frank over there and, uh, whomever. Jujitsu Jeff over there and I'm just g- like, and they're walking around like they're Steven Seagal with their chip on their shoulder and their chest out. And I'm thinking, I'm like, "What the heck is this, man? (laughs) Are you kidding me?" It looked like a swap meet for, uh, martial art wannabes. I, I, I don't know. (laughs)

    6. NA

      (laughs)

    7. DA

      And all these people are walking around, like, going... This is before UFC, even, you know, people knew. They're like, "Wow." And I can remember some guys and I went, I w- I was just like, "Are, are you, (laughs) are you kidding me? I- This is, like, insane. These people are, like, uh, just playing the role." And so I just walked on by and I, I was like, "Wow, I got a room." And I went to the room and I'm like, "Wow." Like, my first time really being somewhere by myself and I'm fine with being by myself, but I'm like, "What the hell am I gonna do?" So there was a UFC office in the hotel, so that's my first run-in with Karen McCartney. And I walked in there and she's like, "Who are you? What do you want?" And I'm like, "Wow." (laughs) I was just like, "Hi," you know, whatever, and Dave, the guy that, that, that, uh, set it up from, from the clothing company or the medical company, said "Oh, you're gonna be all set, you're gonna have backstage passes." And I go, "Good, 'cause I wanna know what I'm gonna do and I... The lay of the land," you know? So she's like, "Oh, yeah. Nah, whatever." And I'm like, "Okay. Well, whatever." I was like, maybe she's having a bad day or something. And so I, uh, go, "Hmm, what do I do?" So I walk down to the lobby and I said, "Hey, man, is there a bar around here?" And he goes, "Oh, yeah. Right across the street over there, just down in there in the highway there." And I go, "Perfect." So I walk over there and everybody's partying. I sit at the bar and, uh, everybody's like, "Oh, what are you here for?" And I go, "You know that UFC thing they're having at the Coliseum or something like that." "Oh, yeah. That fighting thing. Are you a fighter?" And I'm like, going, "I- I'm not technically really a fighter." I go, "Well, I'm not fighting in this show, but I got a piece of paper saying, you know, a contract saying that I'm gonna be in the next one." So, um, I can... You, you know, you partied with me. I, uh-

    8. NA

      Yeah.

    9. DA

      ... I like to have a good time.

    10. NA

      (laughs)

    11. DA

      So it doesn't take long before the whole bar's rocking and rolling around me.

    12. NA

      Yeah.

    13. DA

      And, uh, we're having fun.

    14. NA

      (laughs)

    15. DA

      Everybody's like, "Woo-hoo, man. Tank." And I'm, like, going, "Ew," cringing, you know. Like, "Ugh, Tank." And, um, they're like, "Yeah," and I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Woo-hoo." And so we partied it up and had a good time and, uh... So... End up, uh, going back with these guys to... It was, like, a suites hotel, so there was, like, a room, like, a living room and then you had your bedroom type thing. And we're partying it up and, um, it doesn't take long before security comes and knocks on the door and says, "Hey, people are..."... complaining about you guys. And, God, I'm probably swinging off the couch, doing all sorts of crazy stuff. And, um, like, okay. Well, turns out, Meyrowitz is right across the hallway, and I think he called.

    16. NA

      Oh.

    17. DA

      So that wasn't a good thing. And I'm like, "Okay, we'll keep it down." And I didn't even know who the Bob was. Uh, Art Davie was the, was the- the guy. That's what he was purporting himself as. So I'm like, "Oh, whatever." And so, toned it down. So, go back the n- next day and it all starts up all over again. And I'm like, "Yeah, let's go." And they're going, "Hell yeah, we're going, we're going to the, the fight." And I go, "Yeah, let's go." So we end up, I go, "I got these backstage passes and stuff, so I don't know if I can sit with you guys." So they got tickets and they were in this little cubicle block of seats, just up on the first rail. And they're sitting there and I go, "Okay." And I go, "Hey, there's that art guy." I go, "Hey, Art!" And he's g- running around like he's, uh, Don King in a tuxedo. And I'm like, "Hey, Art! Art! Art! Hey, you got my passes?" And stuff like that. And he's looking at me, he's giving me, like, the cold shoulder, like in not even knowing... He sees me, but like, "Oh, shit, I don't wanna talk to that guy." And I'm like, uh, "Why is he being evasive?" And, um, finally, I called him over and I started putting two and two together. Like you said, I'm kind of cynical, a conspiracy theorist. He would walk around the hotel like he was King Kong, like, "I'm the man," type thing. And right when I went in to get tickets, and they, Layne and them are all in there, he's giving these two young girls these laminates. And gave me the quick eye, like, "What the hell is he looking at?" Like, "Oh," you know, sketchy look.

    18. NA

      Oh.

    19. DA

      And when I got to the show, when I... They gave, j- just gave me paper tickets. And those two girls were running around with the laminates in the office. So I put two and two together. He gave them my laminates trying to get over with the girls, and just gave me some tickets.

    20. NA

      Oh.

    21. DA

      All right. So now, just add a little alcohol, a little conspiracy thoughts going on in my head, and I'm going, "That little worm." And I go, "Oh, I know what's going on." And so I go, I go-

    22. NA

      So you were supposed to get laminates?

    23. DA

      Right, but those girls got the laminates-

    24. NA

      Yeah.

    25. DA

      ... when I went in to get the tickets.

    26. NA

      And those girls that he had just met?

    27. DA

      Yes. They were just groupie-

    28. NA

      Okay.

    29. DA

      ... ring rats, kind of thing.

    30. NA

      (laughs)

  6. 1:15:00 – 1:30:00

    (laughs) …

    1. DA

      called us back or anything. And I was like going, "Hey man, what the hell's going on?" And he's all, "What did you do there?" And I'm like, "Uh, I was just being me." And he gone, "Oh, no." And he was shaking his head. And then that's when Art called him and said, "Hey, that guy is a maniac."

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. DA

      "He's not, not only allowed in to fight in the show, he's not allowed to be at the show. No effing way. That guy, he's crazy." And my... I remember my friend hanging the phone up and looking at me and slowly just shaking his head like, "You blew it, dude." (laughs)

    4. JR

      So how'd you get back in?

    5. DA

      I told you from the guy from the, the bar.

    6. JR

      Okay. So that, so they discounted all the things that happened in the past?

    7. DA

      That guy made a phone call.

    8. JR

      Well, it's the smart thing to do. I mean, regardless if someone's a maniac, it's a maniac sport. You just gotta like-

    9. DA

      Well, well, the-

    10. JR

      ... have better security. (laughs)

    11. DA

      That... Okay. The lead up into meeting the guy that got me in, the professional wrestling guy.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. DA

      Okay. So I get this, this phone call. "You're out." Boom.

    14. JR

      Right.

    15. DA

      And, and we go to this bar and it's not a nice... It's a bar that normal people don't go to. (laughs)

    16. JR

      (laughs)

    17. DA

      And so i- and we're in there and there's... I told Paul and Eddie that I didn't want to go there. I just go, "I don't, I don't want to..." It's trouble. And I was a well-oiled and primed machine for beating ass. And I'm like... And I had anger issues from being kicked out of my dream. And, um, so they talked me into it. (laughs) And I go, "Okay, listen, if anybody bothers me, you guys have to take a... take care of business." And, "No problem." And we were supposed to be in a wrestling room training and fighting, but the wind got knocked out of our sails, my sail, but they were in there for me. And so we're in there and it's a seedy place and seedy things happen. This girl starts in with Paul. Paul disables her, and she falls on the ground.

    18. JR

      Disables her?

    19. DA

      Well, he foot swept her 'cause she was clawing him.

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. DA

      It's a dirty, you know, it's a bad place.

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. DA

      Anyways, so, so that Paul didn't beat up her boyfriend, I came up behind him and got double underhooks underneath him from behind and was pulling him back. And all of a sudden, I hear this loud crack and a light flash across my eyes. I'm like, "What the fuck happened?" You know? It was like... It sounded like the jukebox machine got broke, you know, the glass on it. "What the hell happened, man?" And I let go of Paul f- pulling him back, and I turn around and there's a guy with a broken pool cue.... standing there and obviously, I put two and two together. Put two and two together and, um, his eyes were like, "Oh, that didn't go the way I had planned 'cause he's still standing here." And, um, I don't know because I was knocked silly, but I heard that he got hurt really bad and that's why the bartender or bar owner wanted to extort money from me f- from having a tape of me beating up those guys.

    24. JR

      Oh.

    25. DA

      He's like, "Yeah, that guy came into my bar and almost killed somebody and I have it on videotape."

    26. JR

      Mm, I see.

    27. DA

      And that's a long roundabout back to the story thing.

    28. JR

      Got it. Yeah. So it was a whole lot of fights and a whole lot of chaos. When you were, when you were competing, were you... Like, what kind of training were you doing if you were drinking that much?

    29. DA

      Oh, man. See, you know, I want, I really like to address this. And everybody thinks-

    30. JR

      Please.

  7. 1:30:00 – 1:31:44

    Section 7

    1. DA

      like I said, I've, I've been in a lot of fights. And talk about, uh, fighters' fortitude and, you know, someone's bite, biting my back or sticking their thumb in my eye socket. I was like, "All right, just enjoy your time right now, 'cause, uh, you're gonna pay the price." And the more you beat people up in the street and in life, the more jaded and, um, you get used to it. Like, you know, I can remember like maybe in high school or something, man, and, I mean, early high school, you punch somebody and you give them a black eye. It was like, holy mega, wow. That, and like, you want me to put my hands on you? I'm, you're gonna pay the price. If I have to... Especially nowadays with my health being so fragile.Um, there's a different kind of, uh, beating people, like, they... You know, when I was a youngster, I used to go to all... open wrestling rooms all the time. And I remember this old warrior coach, he said, "You know, son, human body can take a lot of beat- pain, a lot of beatings." And it was... I still remember to this day, and I'm what, I'm 59 now, and it just kind of resonated in- in- um, ringing in my ears, like, when you think, you- you don't think you can hit 'em again, and the more they are a smart-ass, and the more they beg for a beating, I give 'em what they deserve.

Episode duration: 2:11:49

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