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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #161 with Khalil Rountree Jr.

Joe sits down with Khalil Rountree Jr., a professional mixed martial artist competing in the Light Heavyweight division of the UFC. www.ufc.com/athlete/khalil-rountree-jr

Joe RoganhostKhalil Rountree Jr.guestGuestguest
Jul 31, 20242h 20mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:10

    From squab to “ribeyes in the sky”: discovering red-meat birds

    1. JR

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Yeah. What's up?

    4. KJ

      Hello. What up? (laughs)

    5. JR

      Good to see you, man. What's happening?

    6. KJ

      We're back, we're back, we're back.

    7. JR

      We were just talking about eating pigeon. So I was in Europe and, uh, I had, uh, pigeon. And it's, it's a red meat.

    8. KJ

      Wait, pigeon's a red meat?

    9. JR

      Yeah, it's red. And they serve it very rare. Yeah.

    10. KJ

      That (laughs) , wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

    11. JR

      I know.

    12. KJ

      Wait. First of all, eating pigeon is just, it's different.

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. KJ

      But you're telling me that it's red meat.

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. KJ

      And they serve it rare.

    17. JR

      Yeah, it's rare.

    18. KJ

      Well, there's quite a-

    19. NA

      I need more details. (laughs)

    20. JR

      I know. (laughs)

    21. NA

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      I, I was a little stunned too. When the guy... Well, the chef basically, he, he brought us out food, right? We didn't order off the menu, he just brought us out this food. And, uh, when the pigeon came-

    23. KJ

      Oh my God.

    24. JR

      Yeah, it looks red, man. Like, it looks almost like you're eating a piece of steak.

    25. KJ

      It's like before you prep it, you know? Like-

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    27. KJ

      ... this is not what I would expect it being, like, getting served, this.

    28. JR

      Well, there's a bunch of different, uh, birds that have red meat, like ostrich. Ostrich is red meat.

    29. KJ

      I didn't know that either.

    30. JR

      Yeah, I used to get ostrich burgers at Fuddruckers. I think Fuddruckers went under, unfortunately.

  2. 2:10 – 4:09

    Selective breeding, chimeras, and the uneasy history of human-animal experiments

    1. JR

      Yeah. So we were talking about animals that have been modified, like we were looking at Carl. And we're like, how crazy is it that a human, over thousands of years, altered y- by select breeding-

    2. KJ

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      ... created that thing? It's kind of nuts.

    4. KJ

      Yeah, I mean, since we're on the topic, this is kind of weird. There was one, I, I was going down this crazy like YouTube spiral. (laughs)

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. KJ

      And, uh, there was some guy who was just making creations. Like, he used human ... He was just cross-fertilizing shit.

    7. JR

      Oh, God.

    8. KJ

      Yeah, it was the craziest thing ever. I don't know-

    9. JR

      Chimeras, right?

    10. KJ

      I don't know what the hell you call it.

    11. JR

      So-

    12. KJ

      But he was like making these creatures, and then they were like living in these jars. And then it would fast-forward like, you know, three weeks, four weeks, and they're growing. And one of them had this like crazy little eye, and it was the weirdest shit I've ever seen, which then led me down going on another spiral where it's like apparently there's people around the world who will like do like breed, breed like goat mixed with like fucking human, and like it's just weird, man. There's a whole nother, whole world out there-

    13. JR

      I'm not surprised.

    14. KJ

      There's a whole nother world out there.

    15. JR

      Do you know the, the Russians were trying to do that in World War I or World War II? Which world war was it? So the Russians were trying to make a hybrid human/chimpanzee.

    16. KJ

      Oh. (laughs)

    17. JR

      And the idea was you get a super violent psycho human-

    18. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      ... and you don't have to worry about Russians dying.

    20. KJ

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      You got this fucking creation ... 'Cause Russians were dying by the millions. I mean-

    22. KJ

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    23. JR

      ... W- World War I and World War II were fucking uh-

    24. NA

      It would've been World War I, I guess. Yeah, before that.

    25. JR

      World War I. Unbelievably brutal. So hybridization of animals is famous for controversial attempts to create a human ape hybrid by inseminating three female chimpanzees with human sperm.

    26. KJ

      Yeah, it's wild.

    27. JR

      Yeah, bro. They were trying wild shit. They were trying to make something so that they could send it off to war. (laughs)

    28. KJ

      (laughs) Do we have ... D- d- did, did they succeed? Like ... (laughs)

    29. JR

      I, I, pff, don't know.

    30. KJ

      We don't know. See, that's the crazy thing.

  3. 4:09 – 5:26

    Cloning pets and “Pet Sematary” fears: what if the copy isn’t the same?

    1. JR

      Well, listen, let's ... We ... I think we both agree, for sure there's a clone out there in the world.

    2. KJ

      Oh.

    3. JR

      Right?

    4. KJ

      There has to be something.

    5. JR

      Has to be, right?

    6. KJ

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    7. JR

      They must have tried that.

    8. KJ

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      They've done it with sheep, they do it ... You can get your dog cloned. You can get Carl cloned.

    10. NA

      Let's do it.

    11. KJ

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      Yeah, let's do it, Joe. (laughs)

    13. NA

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      No hesitation. (laughs)

    15. KJ

      Yeah, please. (laughs)

    16. JR

      If you get Carl cloned-

    17. NA

      Let's do it.

    18. KJ

      ... I want, I want version two.

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. KJ

      'Cause Carl is just amazing.

    21. NA

      That might be expensive clones.

    22. JR

      Yeah, Carl's ... Yeah, they're very expensive, right? Isn't it like, it's like 25 grand I think.

    23. NA

      I don't know how much I would sell him for.

    24. KJ

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, good. Carl must be worth some money. Uh, but I think it's-

    26. KJ

      (clears throat)

    27. JR

      ... it's a lot of money, but they can do it. But I mean, the whole Dolly the sheep thing, like when they ... That was the first animal that they cloned, I think there was a bunch of failed attempts. So, uh, you know, what is the odds that it comes out exactly like your dog? It might be all fucked up. Yeah.

    28. KJ

      It might be psychotic, it might have no soul.

    29. JR

      You don't know. (laughs)

    30. KJ

      Yeah. Right?

  4. 5:26 – 9:51

    Rabbit holes, Neanderthal theories, and “processed information” as brain junk food

    1. JR

      Oh, you can go down some YouTube rabbit holes, man.

    2. KJ

      Yeah, dude.

    3. JR

      I've gone down some serious YouTube rabbit holes.

    4. KJ

      Yeah, that's-

    5. JR

      I spent like four hours once researching this theory about, um, Neanderthals, that this guy ... The, the, there's one dude that thought that Neanderthals ... We have this idea of Neanderthals that they look just like us.

    6. KJ

      Okay.

    7. JR

      And he thinks no. He thinks they probably look more like gorillas, like, and they probably were covered in hair, and they were probably able to see at night, and they were probably super violent, and they might've hunted us.

    8. KJ

      Mm.

    9. JR

      So he had this whole theory about like these super predator chimpanzee-looking Neanderthals.

    10. KJ

      That sounds interesting.

    11. JR

      Yeah, crazy, dude.

    12. KJ

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    13. JR

      Crazy. But-... most likely not correct.

    14. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      Most people, the- the- the real anthropologists who have studied this stuff are like, "No, no, no, no, we know some of them had red hair."

    16. KJ

      (laughs)

    17. JR

      But red hair could be like a orangutans have red hair.

    18. KJ

      Yep.

    19. JR

      You know, but they had giant eyeballs, you know, and they, they were just very different than us. But close enough that we're, we interbred with them.

    20. KJ

      Yeah. I, I gotta see this. I mean, like, this type of stuff's super interesting.

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. KJ

      Like, I, like, it's hard for me to get into, like, fantasy books and stuff like that. But, like, YouTube videos-

    23. JR

      Oh, yeah.

    24. KJ

      ... on like, you know, like this Neanderthal, like, kind of theory or whatever. ..........................

    25. JR

      I have spent so much time just going down rabbit holes.

    26. KJ

      Brain, brain ticklers. (laughs)

    27. JR

      Yeah, I don't know if it's made me a better person. (laughs)

    28. KJ

      (laughs) 'Cause it fucks up your thought process, right? You're just, like, driving down the street and then-

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. KJ

      ... having a random thought about ... Yeah.

  5. 9:51 – 14:11

    TikTok anxiety, doom-scroll algorithms, and phone habits you can’t quit

    1. JR

      Instead of just the article, or worse yet, a YouTube or TikTok video.

    2. KJ

      Yeah, exactly.

    3. JR

      Yeah, how many people are e- educated by TikTok today?

    4. KJ

      Everybody.

    5. JR

      That's a lot.

    6. KJ

      (laughs) Everybody.

    7. JR

      I, I really firmly believe that it's, like, shifting the way people think about things in a negative direction.

    8. KJ

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      I really, I used to poo-poo it. I used to think, "Ah, the algorithm," whatever. But now I'm like, "Oh, it's definitely, it's definitely fucking up the country." 100%. And I think China's doing it on purpose. I think it's brilliant.

    10. KJ

      Yeah. I mean, I've heard that. I definitely don't have the, like, capacity to figure out (laughs) if it's tr- like, the truth or not, but I did hear that. That's kind of crazy.

    11. JR

      Well, you know, their TikTok's very different than ours.

    12. KJ

      That's what I heard.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. KJ

      Like, it's like all, like, science-

    15. JR

      Positive.

    16. KJ

      ... and, like, positive stuff.

    17. JR

      Yep.

    18. KJ

      And, like, very informational.

    19. JR

      Martial arts.

    20. KJ

      Marital arts.

    21. JR

      Yep. Science achievements, athletic performance.

    22. KJ

      And ours is just, like-

    23. JR

      Academics.

    24. KJ

      ... ratchet. (laughs)

    25. JR

      (laughs) The worst.

    26. KJ

      Like, just the craziest stuff ever.

    27. JR

      I have seen more people get shot on Instagram Reels, those little w- and f- accounts I don't even follow.

    28. KJ

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      Right? So it's like Instagram knows that I'm watching fucked up things, so they're showing me, like, you know, failed carjacking attempts, all kinds of stuff.

    30. KJ

      (laughs) Oh.

  6. 14:11 – 16:44

    VR goggles, AI grief therapy, and sliding toward the ‘simulation’ conversation

    1. JR

      Have you fucked around with any of that AR stuff? Those goggles?

    2. KJ

      Augmented reality.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. KJ

      Um, only, like, the, the Meta Quest. I haven't tried the Apple Vision Pros yet.

    5. JR

      The Meta Quest is dope.

    6. KJ

      'Cause I know as soon as I try the Vision Pro, it's over. I'm gonna be wearing those things like fucking ... (laughs)

    7. JR

      (laughs)

    8. KJ

      'Cause when the Meta Quest came out, like, when I first had it, like, you couldn't get me off the thing. I was, "Holy shit."

    9. JR

      It's incredible.

    10. KJ

      Like, looking around, playing these games, taking off, like, "Oh my ... Wow." Exhilarating. But yeah, no, if I, if I were to get the, um, the Apple Vision Pro, it'd be over. Because there's just so many cool things.

    11. JR

      What did I see recently? There was something that they were using AI, this woman was talking to her deceased daughter. Her daughter, young daughter died and AI had recreated her daughter, and with, with these goggles on, these VR goggles. She was having a conversation with her daughter. And I was like, "Yo."

    12. KJ

      I, like, vaguely remember seeing something like that.

    13. GU

      This isn't brand new, but I think it's this.

    14. JR

      Oh, yeah. This is it. This is so crazy.

    15. NA

      Oh, this is the stuff?

    16. GU

      That's something different.

    17. JR

      This is so crazy.

    18. KJ

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      I mean-

    20. KJ

      She's seeing her deceased daughter and trying to touch her. Oh my God.

    21. JR

      This is, like, what we were talking about, about the phone, right? Like, just putting ourselves through, like, this depression and stuff, like ... Dude, this is crazy.

    22. KJ

      This is cri- like, this ... She can't even touch her, so she's, like, reaching out like she wants to touch her.

    23. JR

      Yeah, and she's crying. Look at the-

    24. KJ

      Oh my God.

    25. JR

      'Cause she's just-

    26. GU

      Well, with the gloves she has, she probably can feel some. This is what we're seeing-

    27. JR

      Yeah, probably.

    28. GU

      ... with, uh, how they're showing it to the viewer.

    29. JR

      Oh.

    30. KJ

      Oh my God. That's so horrible.

  7. 16:44 – 21:38

    Cosmic scale, creativity as an ‘antenna,’ and Dyson spheres as advanced-civilization signals

    1. JR

      It's weird and (sighs) why is, why is us being in a simulation any stranger than reality itself? Just the universe itself. Just the fact that we are one planet of nine in this one solar system that is one of hundreds of billions of solar systems in this galaxy, and that this galaxy is one of hundreds of billions of galaxies in the uni- ... The whole thing is so crazy.

    2. KJ

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      The idea that we're in some sort of a program, why is that more crazy? Like, everything about us is crazy. Subatomic particles are crazy.

    4. KJ

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      Like, uh, uh, even the way our body is designed is crazy.

    6. KJ

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      The fact that you can make a Carl out of a wolf-

    8. KJ

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      ... is fucking crazy. All of it's crazy.

    10. KJ

      Yeah. I mean, even listening to you right now, as I was, as you were kind of breaking down how pretty much insignificant we are, I just kind of, like, everything started zeroing in. I was like, "Oh, no. Get, get out, get out, get out of this thought." (laughs) No, but you're, you're absolutely right.

    11. JR

      I think we are, we are significant and insignificant at the same time.

    12. KJ

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      I, I don't think we're invaluable. I don't buy the thing, like, the, the, like, the, the people that are, like, really dark about it all and like, "Oh, life is meaningless." It's like, no, I don't think that's true.

    14. KJ

      No.... they, I, I don't think that's meaningless at all.

    15. JR

      No.

    16. KJ

      You know? Like the, like you said, there's an equal, like, significance, insignificance. Like, when you look at it in the grand scheme of things, you zoom out, we're tiny. You can't even see us, you know, if you're from an airplane. You look down, you can't even see the humans, right?

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. KJ

      So, that makes us feel a little bit small. But, like, I don't know. Something about us inside, how we feel, how we perceive things, the power that we have in numbers, right? Like, the intelligence that we have to create things like AI and-

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. KJ

      ... laser beams and all this stuff.

    21. JR

      Like-

    22. KJ

      I mean, that's pretty damn significant, in my opinion.

    23. JR

      We, we're ... We're very significant. We just, we're just a part of the whole thing.

    24. KJ

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      The whole thing is just infinitely massive and we think of ourselves as small because we're just one piece of it. But we're, like, I think we're a critical piece of it. And I think what we are is, like, the purveyors of creativity. And I think creativity is, like, a thing that's in the universe that forces intelligent animals-

    26. KJ

      Hmm.

    27. JR

      ... to make things.

    28. KJ

      Hmm.

    29. JR

      And I think we're like an antenna of this creativity and then we put it out there. And then eventually, we're going to leave this planet and we're gonna go to other planets and, and colonize, and put that stuff out there in the world, and probably not even in the form that we, you and I are in right now.

    30. KJ

      Yeah.

  8. 21:38 – 29:17

    Terrence Howard’s ‘peopling’ theory, self-taught genius, and why peers matter

    1. JR

      That's what Terrence Ha- Terrence Howard had a crazy theory about it.

    2. KJ

      I have to watch that one. I've, I've seen little clips, but I've gotta-

    3. JR

      They're both good.

    4. KJ

      Okay.

    5. JR

      The first one's great 'cause he just kinda goes kooky, and then the second one's great because Eric Weinstein, who's like a legitimate genius from Harvard-

    6. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JR

      ... sort of settles him down and explains what's incorrect and what, what is correct.

    8. KJ

      Okay.

    9. JR

      And some of the stuff is very correct, and some of the stuff is really fascinating. I mean, he's, Terrence is clearly a genius.

    10. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      But he's, like, self-taught.

    12. KJ

      Okay.

    13. JR

      And sometimes when you don't have peers correcting you and people-

    14. KJ

      You gotta have that.

    15. JR

      Yeah. You have to have a, actual ex-

    16. KJ

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      It's like if a martial artist, like, "I got this move, bro."

    18. KJ

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      And you're like, "Try that shit on me." (laughs)

    20. KJ

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      You know? Right? It's the guy that-

    22. KJ

      It works in the streets, it works on everybody.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. KJ

      It's like, no, try it on me. Like, you know?

    25. JR

      But Terrence has this brilliant idea about that what happens is you have a star and then the particles that eject from the star are what creates these planets. And when the planets get to a certain distance from the star, when they develop that Goldilocks zone, he goes, they eventually develop people. And he thinks it's, like, peopling. It's like when you see, like, crops growing.

    26. KJ

      Oh.

    27. JR

      Oh, it's that time of the year. The rain and the soil.

    28. KJ

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      Crops are growing. And then, well, oh, they're far away from the sun. They're peopling.

    30. KJ

      Wow.

  9. 29:17 – 33:28

    Elite athletes as geniuses: execution under pressure as real intelligence

    1. JR

      You know? Which is why like there's, there's people like... I, I, I firmly believe that to be great at athletics, it takes a kind of intelligence.

    2. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      And you're not measuring it in an IQ, but to pretend that someone is like a Wayne Gretzky, that he's not some kind of a genius, you know, or a Federer or, or an elite MMA fighter.

    4. KJ

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      You have to be a kind of a genius.

    6. KJ

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      Because you're navigating this most difficult of world with microsecond decisions get made, training, instinct, discipline, the will to carve out this existence, and all those things, it ha- you have to have a fucking truly, truly exceptional mind to be able to do those things.

    8. KJ

      I, I agree 100%. From-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. KJ

      ... yeah, any- anybody that's doing things at just like a, a really high level or like-

    11. JR

      Yes.

    12. KJ

      ... they're doing things differently or they're like the number one, two, and three in their-

    13. JR

      In anything.

    14. KJ

      ... in th- in anything, yeah. There's definitely a level of-

    15. JR

      And if you're focusing at physics-... well, everybody thinks you're a genius. But if you're focusing on hockey, people don't think you're a genius.

    16. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      Or if you're focusing on chess, maybe people think you're a genius, but if you're focusing on jujitsu, maybe they don't think you're a genius.

    18. KJ

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      And it's kind of interesting.

    20. KJ

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      But I think they're all geniuses.

    22. KJ

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      I think that-

    24. KJ

      For sure.

    25. JR

      ... I think every one of those people, if they had the physical capability, 'cause o- obviously some people unfortunately have terrible genetics and they're just never gonna be an elite athlete.

    26. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      But if you have the physical ability, that's only like a little tiny piece of it.

    28. KJ

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      The real piece is the mental part of navigating not just the training, but the improving, and, and then the ability to execute under pressure.

    30. KJ

      To execute under pressure.

  10. 33:28 – 50:19

    Olympics as a business machine: money extraction, spectacle, and eligibility controversies

    1. KJ

      So like similar to like the Olym- are you watching the Olympics right now at all?

    2. JR

      Bro, I watched that fucking transgender woman boxer f- b- box the female boxer. I'm like, "What the-"

    3. KJ

      I didn't see that.

    4. JR

      "... fuck are you people doing?"

    5. KJ

      What? Uh, honestly-

    6. JR

      Oh, dude.

    7. KJ

      ... I haven't, I haven't seen much. Every bar or whatever, a- a- anything that has a television right now ... I've been traveling, so I see like Olympics is on everywhere.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. KJ

      Right? But one thing that I'd a- that I've noticed, it's like it's so weird. It seems like The Hunger Games. (laughs)

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. KJ

      You know? Like, I would see all these like crazy outfits and just like-

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. KJ

      ... oh, you know, this like extravagant thing. I'm like, "This is the Olympics now?" Like, why is this ... It's so-

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. KJ

      ... different now than it, than what I remember it being.

    16. JR

      Well, the Olympics is a giant scam. There's two things going on simultaneously, okay? You have the best athletes in the world participating in their disciplines. That's, that's happening. And then on top of that, you have enormous amounts of money being made and none of it's going to the athletes.

    17. KJ

      Oh.

    18. JR

      It is a giant scam. So the kind of people that are putting together that ridiculous opening ceremony where you got a bunch of drag queens and The Last Supper and all that wild shit.

    19. KJ

      Yeah. Well, I didn't understand that.

    20. JR

      Nobody understands it-

    21. KJ

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      ... because it's not made by athletes. It's not made by the Olympics. It's made by the people that are in charge of putting the Olympics out, so they're the ones who are reaping all the money and sucking all the cash outta these athletes.

    23. KJ

      Got it.

    24. JR

      Not only do they do that, but then they'll go to places like Brazil, and so if it's gonna be in Brazil, they build this fucking enormous place for it to, to participate in, all the different or- arenas where different people do their things.

    25. KJ

      Yeah, roads. (laughs)

    26. JR

      And then after that, nothing.

    27. KJ

      It's ... Yeah. Gone.

    28. JR

      So, and then all the people there who are poor are like, "Hey, where the fuck did this money come from? And why didn't you just spend it on this ... th- the community?"

    29. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JR

      "Why did you do this?"

  11. 50:19 – 58:10

    Khalil’s DHEA supplement case: self-reporting, UFC suspension, and Nevada commission limbo

    1. JR

      Yeah. Probably banned from the Olympics. I wonder if nicotine's banned. So speaking of which, we should probably get to the... your whole story.

    2. KJ

      Yeah, let's do it.

    3. JR

      Yeah. So, um, you were slated to fight, um, uh, it was Jamahal Hill, right?

    4. KJ

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      And... which was e- been a huge fight for you and for him. Um, and explain the story. Explain in your words what happened.

    6. KJ

      Okay. Uh, yeah. So I was scheduled to fight Jamahal Hill, co-main event at UFC 303. At the time, it was when Conor was still, you know, gonna fight, uh, Chandler. (clears throat) So, uh, in preparation leading up to that fight, uh, I was... How do I even say this? I was working with a company who I, like, outsourced, like, to take care of my supplements and stuff. Like, "Hey, you know, I don't have the time to necessarily, like, pick what's right for me, uh, but these guys, I trust them. They promised me."

    7. JR

      And they did your blood work. They did everything.

    8. KJ

      Yeah. Uh, blood work, everything sh- like, sh- you know. I trusted them. I'd taken their stuff before, passed drug tests before, so there was nothing for me to, you know, worry about. Um, and then I... It was brought to my attention, uh, from the owner of the company, he was visiting my house, and pointed out something that I was taking and shouldn't have been, but it was sent to me from their company. Um, they mentioned, you know... They sent a letter to the UFC. As soon as I took it, I had to... I, I mean, I called the UFC, man. I was, like, freaked out. I was like, "What the hell?" I didn't know.

    9. JR

      So, this stuff that you were taking was a part of, like... It was a stack of things? Or was it, like-

    10. KJ

      So let me... I wanna get this, like... I wanna get this correct, you know?

    11. JR

      Right, right.

    12. KJ

      Like, because this is the first time that I'm, you know, speaking about this publicly. So, the, the most simple way that I can put it is I was outsourcing my supplements. I was sent a blended supplement that I was not told that I should not take. N- and the company knew that I'm a UFC fighter, that I'm under drug testing protocol, like all this stuff. So they knew that and someone from their company sent me something that I shouldn't have taken, and there was no, like, "Heads up. Hey, this..." Da, da, da, da, da. It just came. And I continued to take my supplements as I'd been doing, and then when it was brought to my attention, like, "Hey, you shouldn't be taking this," that's when I immediately alerted the UFC. I'm like, "Hey-"

    13. JR

      So this is DHEA?

    14. KJ

      DHEA.

    15. JR

      Correct?

    16. KJ

      And it wasn't even... It was in a blended supplement, so DHEA was inside of a vitamin-type supplement that they sent me.

    17. JR

      And we should also point out DHEA is not even performance enhancing. So it's not like you could get any kind of an advantage. It would help your health.

    18. KJ

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      It's kinda stupid that it's illegal.

    20. KJ

      Yeah. I mean, there's like... When I looked at stuff from, like, the WADA, um, list on why they banned it, um, it just doesn't really make any sense, you know? And for it to have any type of performance enhancing benefits, I'd have to take it for a long time and a lot of it, and it still wouldn't even probably do anything, you know?

    21. JR

      Yeah. It's not a steroid. The point is it's-

    22. KJ

      It... Yeah, it's not-

    23. JR

      It's not like some crazy shit that you take when or else... Like EPO or something like that.

    24. KJ

      Yeah, yeah. Exactly. S-

    25. JR

      So I don't understand if you told them that this was an accident, giving, given the understanding that this is not performance enhancing, why did they suspend you?

    26. KJ

      Okay. So UFC, which is awesome, they've, they've been so helpful, man. Like Dana and Jeff and even Hunter, like, I'm so grateful for them. But they had to suspend me. They gave me a two-month suspension because...... my test did come back positive. As soon as I told them, "Hey, I just tested on May 4th, so I haven't gotten the results back yet, but this is what I just found out I've been taking, so it's probably gonna come up on this test, so keep a lookout." Be like, "Keep your-"

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. KJ

      "... eye out." So then they're like, "Okay, we're..." They like expedited my test. They called it like, "Hey, we need this test back immediately-"

    29. JR

      Mm.

    30. KJ

      "... 'cause I was booked to fight." And so I'm obviously... This is like... Uh, I'm panicking, dude. I'm like, "Fuck." Like, th- everything is... It could go down, and I fucking didn't do anything, you know? (laughs)

  12. 58:10 – 1:23:50

    Staying sharp while sidelined: momentum, injuries, Pride-era nostalgia, and avoiding risky competitions

    1. KJ

      Heated up division. Things are moving, you know, guys are fighting. Um, ah, dude, I mean like even to not fight this long, I mean, I d- I don't think people have... Or it does so much for me, man. Financially, like... (laughs)

    2. JR

      Yeah. I'm sure.

    3. KJ

      You know what I mean? Like, dude, I got mortgage. Like-

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. KJ

      ... like shit's... It's been... it's been such a huge thing on-

    6. JR

      Also momentum.

    7. KJ

      Momentum. Uh, yeah, not fighting, I mean it's-

    8. JR

      And you're in your prime right now.

    9. KJ

      Yeah, dude. It's... I, I... When I even think about it, like it, it brings up so many different emotions, you know. Like I do my best to work through 'em and I've been training my ass off, you know. I like... I've, I've tried to do everything that I can in this time to just stay prepared and just... even though I... even if I know that I'm gonna be fighting next year or something like that. Like I'm just like, "Okay, I don't..." I have to... I have to stay strong. I have to keep progressing.

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. KJ

      I have to continue to be better every time-

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. KJ

      ... every... you know, every fight.

    14. JR

      Well, you were... after the Anthony Smith fight, you just... you're so hot right now. I mean, it's like on that level where like, this guy might break through and become champion. You're in that range, you know.

    15. KJ

      Yeah. And that's... I mean, that's where I'm headed. Like, I'm so focused on whatever it takes to get to that championship and that Jamal Hill fight was like the way that I was looking at, "Okay, this is my way to prove that I'm ready."

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. KJ

      The only... (sighs) I mean, hopefully that fight can get rescheduled, you know, because my biggest focus right now is, man, I wanna fight Alex, man.

    18. JR

      Mm.

    19. KJ

      I just... I know that that's gonna be a great fight that everyone is going to love.

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. KJ

      And I know that-

    22. JR

      That's a striker's delight.

    23. KJ

      ... I'm obviously... Yes. And I know that I have to, uh, you know, like, yeah, I've gotta fight Jamal and maybe that'll... he- maybe like if that happens first, then that'll still keep me in that position of like talks of like, "Okay then, now you're ready for it."

    24. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    25. KJ

      Who knows what's gonna happen? Who knows how many fights it's gonna take now-

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. KJ

      ... for me to get that fight?

    28. JR

      Right.

    29. KJ

      But that's the one, to me, in my mind that I'm like, "That's the one that I want really bad."

    30. JR

      Well, fortunately Jamal... unfortunately for him, Jamal got injured.

Episode duration: 2:20:06

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