JRE MMA Show #167 with Cory Sandhagen

1. 0:00 – 1:54

   Golf addiction stories: Gaethje’s Ferrari and why golfers get hooked

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. CSCory Sandhagen0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you, brother. What's happening?

   4. CSCory Sandhagen0:16

      Yeah, good to see you too.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      I'm good.

   6. CSCory Sandhagen0:16

      We were talking about golf and, uh, Jamie, who's a full-blown addict-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      Yeah. What's up?

   8. CSCory Sandhagen0:21

      (laughs) What's up?

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      What do you wanna know?

   10. CSCory Sandhagen0:23

       What's up? (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       What do you wanna know? What do you wanna hear about?

   12. CSCory Sandhagen0:24

       I don't know, dude. I feel like everyone is now. So you're saying Gaethje's fully hooked?

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       Oh, fully hooked. It's crazy.

   14. CSCory Sandhagen0:29

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       He, uh... Yeah, I don't know. Do you know what Fanatics Fest is?

   16. CSCory Sandhagen0:33

       No.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       So Fanatics Fest is... I was just at it on Sunday, but it's just like a, it's like com- kind of like Comic-Con but for athletes. And Gaethje got to do, like, the Fanatics game, which is, like, a celebrity thing, where it's, like, 50 pro athletes do it, 50 normal people, and they compete in a bunch of sports or whatever. He said he won because he was good at golf, so the fucking guy won a Ferrari 'cause he got second place. Tom Brady got first, he got a million dollars. And then, like, a normal, like, non-professional athlete got third place, he got, like, 200K.

   18. CSCory Sandhagen1:03

       Whoa.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       So it's fucking-

   20. CSCory Sandhagen1:04

       He got a Ferrari?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Yeah, dude, golf got him-

   22. CSCory Sandhagen1:06

       Holy shit.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Golf got him for this (laughs) fucking Ferrari. I think he took-

   24. CSCory Sandhagen1:09

       Holy shit.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Yeah. So he's... So that kinda just enforced his addiction more than...

   26. CSCory Sandhagen1:16

       But damn, he's that good?

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Yeah, he's pretty good. I- you know, I mean, for... I don't know shit about golf, but from what I know-

   28. CSCory Sandhagen1:20

       Daniel told me, DC told me that he started off and he was just kinda okay. But over the time, between the Holloway fight and his-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       Yeah.

   30. CSCory Sandhagen1:28

       ... fight with Fiziev, he didn't do anything but play golf for a year.
2. 1:54 – 5:56

   Trevor Wittman’s gloves and the UFC glove problem (eye pokes, fit, and foam)

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:54

      Yeah. He's a, he's a unique dude for sure. I've really liked, 'cause, uh, obviously, you know I started working with Wittman not too long ago.

   2. CSCory Sandhagen2:00

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:00

      Um, I've really enjoyed getting to know, like, that crew, like Trevor, Gaethje, Kamaru.

   4. CSCory Sandhagen2:04

      Trevor's a unique guy.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:06

      Yeah, he's, yeah, all of those guys are pretty unique in their own way, yeah.

   6. CSCory Sandhagen2:08

      He makes the best fucking MMA gloves that have ever been made, and the UFC should've bought them out a long time ago. I think he wanted some crazy amount of money or something.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:18

      Mm-hmm.

   8. CSCory Sandhagen2:18

      I think it was, like, some nutty deal.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:20

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CSCory Sandhagen2:21

       Unfortunate.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:22

       I know.

   12. CSCory Sandhagen2:22

       You know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:22

       I know.

   14. CSCory Sandhagen2:23

       They should've just licensed it. They should've just made some sort of a deal, like, "You... L- we'll sell the gloves, you make the money."

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:29

       Yeah.

   16. CSCory Sandhagen2:29

       "Let's just get the athletes the best gloves bought." They're so much better.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       They're way better. Yeah, the foam in them is really good. Uh, I mean-

   18. CSCory Sandhagen2:36

       The shape is better.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:37

       Yeah.

   20. CSCory Sandhagen2:37

       The protection of your hands is better.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:39

       Yeah. Trevor's one of those guys where, uh, I'm kinda similar to, like, most things aren't stimulating enough. Like, TV, kinda playing on my phone isn't really super stimulating to me. So, like, he's always, like, doing something, so he's always, like, making shit. But he'd be, when I would go into Onyx, he'd just be in the back, like, with this smile, like, working on the gloves, like, every single morning that he's there. And, uh, the style that they have is real cool. People keep asking me when they're gonna come out with them, and I think he's getting pretty close, so...

   22. CSCory Sandhagen3:09

       I just really wish that him and the UFC could make a deal.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:12

       I know.

   24. CSCory Sandhagen3:12

       'Cause they try, they spent so much time and money to develop those new gloves-

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:15

       I know.

   26. CSCory Sandhagen3:15

       ... and then they threw them out.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       Yeah. I hate that too. I liked the new ones.

   28. CSCory Sandhagen3:19

       Did you?

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:20

       I have really thin... Like, my hands aren't massive like some of these guys. Um, the old ones are better for, like, if you have, like, a really thick hand, the old ones are way better. But I have a thin hand, dude, and those things used to fit me, like, perfectly.

   30. CSCory Sandhagen3:32

       Hmm.
3. 5:56 – 8:02

   Training culture, sparring intensity, and building a style that lasts

   1. CSCory Sandhagen5:56

      Yeah. That ... How important is that? And is, like, having training partners that are l- that are conscientious, and that aren't gonna fucking blast you? Like, the, the miles that guys take off of the clock when they're training is so big.

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:09

      Yeah. It's big. I think ... I don't ... I mean, we spar. But I spar pretty hard still. I know that, like, not a lot of people are crazy about that. But-

   3. CSCory Sandhagen6:16

      But you don't get hit a lot though.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:17

      That's true. (laughs) Yeah, that's true.

   5. CSCory Sandhagen6:18

      Because the thing is, you're slick.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:19

      Yeah, that's true.

   7. CSCory Sandhagen6:19

      Like, for a guy who's just like a fucking face first grrr.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:22

      Yeah, yeah.

   9. CSCory Sandhagen6:22

      You know?

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:23

       Yeah.

   11. CSCory Sandhagen6:23

       You know? That's ... There's, there's styles that enhance the longevity-

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:28

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CSCory Sandhagen6:28

       ... and you have a style that enhances longevity 'cause not only do you not get hit a lot, but you're also like ... You're a puzzle.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:33

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CSCory Sandhagen6:34

       You know? You're not ... It's not like, "Oh, here he comes." It's like, "Where? Where? What, what's going on here?" You know? There's a lot of thinking that a guy has to do when they're interacting. You know, you have so much, so many feints and so many stance switches.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:45

       Definitely.

   17. CSCory Sandhagen6:46

       It's such a smart style, man. I love watching you fight-

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:49

       Yeah, thank you.

   19. CSCory Sandhagen6:49

       ... because it's like it's so ... You can see that the, the fighter, if they don't ... And, and by the way, they're probably not used to training with somebody like you-

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:58

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CSCory Sandhagen6:58

       ... because there's not a lot of guys like you. You can see how there's all these adjustments that they have to make on the fly-

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:03

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CSCory Sandhagen7:03

       ... that makes you think.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       Yeah. I mean, uh, I always really looked up to all of the defensive guys that I would watch. Like, I know that in boxing, defensive ... Just winning the defensive battle is a big piece in boxing. And the judges almost even score a little bit for it. But in MMA, it's just all o- like, only offense scores.

   25. CSCory Sandhagen7:24

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:24

       S- so that's not really the way that I grew up thinking was good martial arts, really. 'Cause my f- some of my favorite guys were Mayweather, Pernell Whitaker-

   27. CSCory Sandhagen7:32

       Oh, yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:32

       ... Nanido Donaire, like, all of-

   29. CSCory Sandhagen7:34

       Oh, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:34

       ... these really awesome, like, movers that did a phenomenal job at protecting themselves. And ... But now, man, people ... I feel like even more so now, people want more blood and more offense. Like-
4. 8:02 – 12:17

   Grappling appreciation, judging gaps, and why ‘near subs’ should score

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:02

      D- I think grappling is really hard to understand unless you've done it.

   2. CSCory Sandhagen8:05

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:05

      Like, striking is easy to understand. Like, okay, that guy hit the shit m- out of that guy more than the other guy hit him.

   4. CSCory Sandhagen8:12

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:13

      Grappling is like, it's a whole ... It's like super proprioceptive. You know? Like-

   6. CSCory Sandhagen8:17

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:18

      A lot of what's going on in grappling isn't ... It's, like, hidden to the eye. You know what I mean?

   8. CSCory Sandhagen8:24

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:24

      It's where am I sitting my weight? Where am I-

   10. CSCory Sandhagen8:26

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:26

       ... doing this? And, um ... And, yeah, so it kinda just ... People just don't think it's cool. But when you understand grappling, like, it's amazing to watch.

   12. CSCory Sandhagen8:35

       Yes.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       You know? Like, um, a Merab, for example, who's obviously a guy that I watch a ton, it's amazing.

   14. CSCory Sandhagen8:41

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:41

       Like, he does such a good job with, like, the little nuance-y things in wrestling that's just like ...

   16. CSCory Sandhagen8:46

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:47

       That ... But it's hard to appreciate unless you really understand it.

   18. CSCory Sandhagen8:49

       Well, it's hard to judge too.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:51

       Yeah.

   20. CSCory Sandhagen8:51

       Which is a real problem 'cause there's judges that don't train and never have trained.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:56

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

   22. CSCory Sandhagen8:56

       Which is, to me, fucking crazy.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       I know.

   24. CSCory Sandhagen8:59

       That's like judging a Chinese spelling bee and you don't speak Chinese.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:03

       (laughs)

   26. CSCory Sandhagen9:03

       Like, whose nose is fucking winning here? (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:06

       I know, dude. I know it.

   28. CSCory Sandhagen9:06

       They don't understand it. They understand when someone's on top. "Oh, he's on top."

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:10

       I know.

   30. CSCory Sandhagen9:10

       But, you know, there's so many, like, near submission attempts that I think should count. Like, like, I always go to the Oliveira, Arman Tsarukyan fight 'cause I think Oliveira won that fight.
5. 12:17 – 14:45

   Radical rule ideas: more judges, KO/sub-only leagues, and no time limits

   1. CSCory Sandhagen12:17

      ... uh, th- I think you, if you had thr- three more judges, so if you had sick judges, six judges would balance it out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:23

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CSCory Sandhagen12:24

      Six good judges. So the ones that fuck up and make mistakes, they'll be canceled out by the better judges.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:29

      We could do, like, a submission or knockout only league.

   5. CSCory Sandhagen12:32

      Ooh.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:33

      That'd be pretty cool.

   7. CSCory Sandhagen12:34

      What if-

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:34

      'Cause then you'd definitely know who was winning that one. (laughs)

   9. CSCory Sandhagen12:36

      What would you think about a no time limit fight?

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:38

       Yeah. No, no time limit, submission or knockout only.

   11. CSCory Sandhagen12:41

       That would be wild.

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:42

       That'd be pretty sick, actually.

   13. CSCory Sandhagen12:44

       Yeah, well, well-

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:44

       You could probably sanction that.

   15. CSCory Sandhagen12:45

       ... old school UFC.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:46

       Yeah.

   17. CSCory Sandhagen12:46

       Yeah. I mean, it's UFC 1.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       Yeah. It wouldn't really pay off for me, though. I need weight classes-

   19. CSCory Sandhagen12:51

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:51

       ... in order for me to fucking-

   21. CSCory Sandhagen12:52

       No, but that-

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:52

       ... for my career to be good. (laughs)

   23. CSCory Sandhagen12:53

       But w- but wait, yeah, weight classes, sure, but, but no time limit within the weight classes.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:57

       Yeah. That'd be sweet.

   25. CSCory Sandhagen12:58

       That would be pretty pr-

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       Yeah.

   27. CSCory Sandhagen12:58

       That'd be pretty wild.

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:00

       Yeah. That'd be pretty crazy.

   29. CSCory Sandhagen13:00

       'Cause you know, you know, like two guys are facing off each other, like, and they know, like, there's no rescue-

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:06

       Yeah.
6. 14:45 – 22:49

   Work ethic vs talent outliers: Merab’s engine, Jones’ layoffs, and “riding the lightning”

   1. CSCory Sandhagen14:45

      The, the, the blitz print and very few guys. You know, we were talking about Gaethje and golf, and I was saying that I'm scared of golf and y- you know, you were like, "I don't have time for golf." The k- there's a, the thing that happens with golf is it takes so much time and it's so addictive, that it's gonna take away time from other stuff-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CSCory Sandhagen15:02

      ... no matter what you do. And when you look at a guy ... Like, I always point to Merab because the day after he beat Sean the first fight, DC went to his house to, to go talk to him and he was out running.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CSCory Sandhagen15:14

      The day after.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:15

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CSCory Sandhagen15:15

      Like, that's a guy who does not stop.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CSCory Sandhagen15:18

      And that extreme physicality and that extreme endurance, because he is just constantly working, that means something.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:25

       Yeah.

   11. CSCory Sandhagen15:25

       It counts. If you take months off, you take s- you know, like ... Like, this was the thing that I was thinking about with Jon Jones. Jon Jones said he need- needed six months-

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:34

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CSCory Sandhagen15:35

       ... to prepare for Aspinall, if he was gonna fight Aspinall. So they were trying to make a deal and then he decided to retire. But it's six months because he's not training.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:41

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CSCory Sandhagen15:42

       Like, at all.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CSCory Sandhagen15:43

       Like, he just doesn't train. Like, in between fights, just doesn't train.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:46

       Yeah.

   19. CSCory Sandhagen15:47

       Which to m- He used to do that-

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       That's crazy.

   21. CSCory Sandhagen15:48

       ... a lot when he was younger too, which is- I always thought it was crazy.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       That is crazy to me. I always saw guys do that, like when I was in my 20s and, like, I would watch these really big fighters just not train unless it was a training camp time and I'd be like, "Fuck that. I'm never being that way." Um, I don't know, man. That's, that's, like, a really weird one to me, but I don't wanna bash it too bad 'cause I do know a lot of guys that do do that, but-

   23. CSCory Sandhagen16:11

       But look at Jon.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:12

       Yeah.

   25. CSCory Sandhagen16:12

       Greatest of all time.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       Yeah. Yeah.

   27. CSCory Sandhagen16:13

       It's like, how did he do that? He's that talented.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       I really don't know. I don't know how that works. Like, I want it to make sense in my head that, like, the harder you work, the more shit you'll get from it, you know?

   29. CSCory Sandhagen16:22

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Which is, like, true to an extent, but then you have, like, these weird outlier guys that maybe have something more figured out than me that I don't have figured out or whatever, but I mean, that to me is, like, completely unacceptable in my head. Like I, I, I think that, um, I really hate when people say that they wanna be something and then they don't do any of the actions to, like, actually do that thing that they're saying that they wanna be.
7. 22:49 – 29:30

   Cory’s camp structure: playful learning vs ‘winning mode’ and visualization under stress

   1. CSCory Sandhagen22:49

      What is the difference between your training, like regular training, and then training once you get into camp? How m- like, what is a normal day when you're not in camp for you?

   2. JRJoe Rogan22:57

      Uh, it's all the exact same. I'm just less competitive when I'm outside of camp.

   3. CSCory Sandhagen23:00

      Mm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan23:01

      Um, and I won't, if I, if I'm like beat to shit, dead tired, I'll miss a practice. But that's really the only time that I'll miss practice. In camp, I won't miss, um, unless... I have like a two-week rule, where if I'm like dragging really bad, I'll make myself go for another week and a half, two weeks until I'm like, "Okay, I, I, I, I, I, I do actually need to rest." You know? And then so I'll do that in camp. Um, but yeah. I, uh, but outside of camp, it's pretty much the exact same. I've been traveling l- a lot, which I really don't like doing, um, just because, again, like I, I don't really feel like I'm alive. I feel like I'm like fast-forwarding through a bunch of stuff. Um, but it's been, like, useful stuff, like seeing family and then, like, me and my wife going on our honeymoon or whatever. So it's like normal life shit that I guess I gotta check in and do every once in a while. But if it were up to me, it would just be like training camp life-

   5. CSCory Sandhagen23:55

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:55

      ... all of the time. Just 'cause it's easier. It's way easier. It's fun. It's easy. I go to the gym. I do my hard workouts. I'm competitive as fuck. I get to get that out of me. And then I just hang with my friends for an hour afterwards.

   7. CSCory Sandhagen24:07

      When you say you're less competitive when you're just normal training, like, d- is that conscious?

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:12

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CSCory Sandhagen24:12

      Like, do you decide to be less competitive? And why do you do that?

   10. JRJoe Rogan24:15

       Uh, I do that because I can't, I think that, um, if I'm too competitive, I won't work on stuff. Like, it, like, uh-

   11. CSCory Sandhagen24:22

       Oh.

   12. JRJoe Rogan24:22

       ... a lot of camp, for me, is getting better at stuff, and then the last four weeks is figuring out how to win.It's not like ... I think that practicing winning is just as important as being able to practice a certain skill. So, a lot of my camps will be developing those skills, but then like the last four or five weeks, it's just ... I need to focus on winning each round regardless of who it's against or whatever. I'm not like practicing a certain technique or doing anything like that, it's just win, win, win.

   13. CSCory Sandhagen24:51

       Just doing whatever it takes to win that round.

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:53

       Exactly.

   15. CSCory Sandhagen24:53

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan24:53

       Yeah, because that's an important skill to build.

   17. CSCory Sandhagen24:55

       And when you're less competitive, when you're just training and you're not in camp, you'll try things-

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:01

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CSCory Sandhagen25:01

       ... you'll be a little more playful, try to like sort stuff, try new, new skills.

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:05

       And I'm definitely not sparring hard as fuck like I do in camp too.

   21. CSCory Sandhagen25:08

       Mm. Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:08

       Um, like I won't do that outside of camp unless I got a guy that's been giving me a bunch of rounds in my camps and he has a fight coming up and, and then I'll like gear up to give him a good one, you know? But, uh, no outside camp comp-... like just less competitive. I don't show up as early and get my mind right before. When I'm in camp, every single sparring session that I do, I try to put myself in the locker room while I'm warming up. Um, I think that that's like ... I've had a lot of success doing that. Um, just making my body make good decisions when I'm in a super elevated high-intensity state is something you gotta practice too. I definitely won't do that outside of camp 'cause that's a lot of energy.

   23. CSCory Sandhagen25:46

       So you visualize the walk out, you visualize like stepping into the octagon, all that?

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:51

       Uh, essentially. Um, it's not as ... So I don't do as much of, um ... I'd more so go off of feel a little bit more now, where I'll be like, "Okay, I need to do this today because I know that I really don't wanna do it."

   25. CSCory Sandhagen26:07

       Mm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:07

       Um, or I'll be like, "Okay, this day for whatever reason I'm really distracted, I'll do a little bit more visualization, mindful stuff or whatever." 'Cause every day is different in sparring, um, as you know, where some days you're good to go right off the bat and then other days you're dragging. It's those days that you're dragging that I make sure that I'm like r-... Those ones I'll be like, "Okay, fucking visualize because your body doesn't wanna do this right now." And I'll put myself in that state twice a week which is, um, has helped a lot- a lot, a lot.

   27. CSCory Sandhagen26:33

       I know for a while you were organizing y- your whole camp, right?

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:37

       Yeah.

   29. CSCory Sandhagen26:38

       Are you still doing that?

   30. JRJoe Rogan26:39

       No, I don't do that anymore. That has-
8. 29:30 – 35:06

   Leg locks in MMA: 50/50, Ryan Hall’s ‘niche’ advantage, and the cost of injuries

   1. CSCory Sandhagen29:30

      So that's the- essentially the same position that you got in with TJ, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan29:34

      Yep. Yep. 50/50.

   3. CSCory Sandhagen29:35

      And what... That- that's like you're l-... Th- th- so this is all Ryan Hall stuff, right?

   4. JRJoe Rogan29:40

      Yep.

   5. CSCory Sandhagen29:41

      And so you're putting him in a position where if he doesn't know what you're doing and he tries to get out of it, he's gonna blow his knee?

   6. JRJoe Rogan29:47

      Yep, essentially. I- I- I like 50/50 a lot because one, I get to learn it from the guy who essentially invented it and is the best at it in the world. The only guys that I feel like can beat me at 50/50 are guys that train at 50/50. Um, and so it's kind of like what... It feels like 50/50 the position and just kind of leg locks in general if you really know how to do 'em in MMA, um, are a spot that you can pull people into and have them be completely lost.

   7. CSCory Sandhagen30:16

      Mm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:16

      Um, be-

   9. CSCory Sandhagen30:16

      'Cause they have to think, "What do I do now?" And you're already moving.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:19

       It's super niche too.

   11. CSCory Sandhagen30:21

       Yes.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:21

       Like understanding the position is super niche.

   13. CSCory Sandhagen30:23

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       It's like judo almost a little bit in wrestling where it's like...... okay, cool, if this guy's gonna just wrestle with me, great. But if this guy has good throws, that changes a lot of the way that I have to do things. I can pull people into these really niche spots, um, where I, where I know that I'm gonna win them. Um, so 50/50 is one of those. It's kinda like what jujitsu used to be a little bit, before people started to understand jujitsu.

   15. CSCory Sandhagen30:44

       Mm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       But now people fully understand jujitsu, so you don't really get to, like, catch people in guillotines or whatever. But 50/50 and a lot of the leg locks and a lot of stuff that Ryan teaches me and does is so niche that, like, you would need an absolute expert to understand it. And I, like, get the fortune of having that.

   17. CSCory Sandhagen31:05

       Yeah, that's awesome.

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CSCory Sandhagen31:06

       He's so fucking smart too. That dude is just ... Like, his analysis of jujitsu and the way he's broken down different positions, it's, it's real exciting to watch. Is he fighting ... I know he's had, like, nine surgeries or something crazy, right?

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       Yeah, he's had ... Yeah, it's, like, closer to 1,000, but, uh-

   21. CSCory Sandhagen31:20

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:21

       (laughs) But, uh, but yeah. He ... I mean, he's doing good. He says he wants to fight again. I ho- I hope that he does.

   23. CSCory Sandhagen31:26

       Why is he having all these surgeries? Like, what's going on?

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       I think it's um- uh, just one of those things where, like, you let one thing go, and then another thing breaks, and then another thing breaks, and you kinda, like, are taping yourself back together. And then one day you wake up and you're like, "Shit, I gotta, like, take care of this." It's kinda-

   25. CSCory Sandhagen31:41

       How many ... What other surgeries did he have?

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       Um, I'm not sure specifically. The ... (laughs) You name it, he's probably had it. Um, like, there-

   27. CSCory Sandhagen31:49

       I've never heard of anybody having that many surgeries.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:51

       There's a couple of knee ones, a couple of shoulder ones. Um, honestly, I quit asking after a certain point. Um, but yeah, I think that he's kinda coming back. Ryan, more than anything ... I'm, like, a super conceptual thinker. Like, I don't really like details. Like, I don't remember names of stuff that ... Yeah.

   29. CSCory Sandhagen32:09

       19 general anesthesia s- ... First of all, that is so bad for your future.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:13

       I know. That is really. I know.
9. 35:06 – 42:44

   Staph infections, antibiotics tradeoffs, and scary real-world health outcomes

   1. JRJoe Rogan35:06

      It makes ... I've only had a couple surg- how many surgeries have you had? Like, under the knife-

   2. CSCory Sandhagen35:11

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan35:11

      ... like, had to go under?

   4. CSCory Sandhagen35:12

      Um, three knee surgeries under the knife. Uh, I think those are the only general anesthesia ones that I've had.

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:22

      It's kinda ... I get really ... I've only had to do it for my elbow, uh, when I tore my tricep.

   6. CSCory Sandhagen35:27

      Yeah, you tore that shit off the bone, right?

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:28

      Yeah, it was pretty fucked up. Um-

   8. CSCory Sandhagen35:30

      But you still won the fight.

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:31

      I did still win the fight.

   10. CSCory Sandhagen35:32

       But-

   11. JRJoe Rogan35:32

       That one ... That was, like, a whole fucking thing though. Um, I- I got bursitis in that elbow 'cause I got a bunch of loose floating bones and shit in there. So then it just swelled up really bad. And every time I've gotten bursitis, I've gotten really bad staph infections in, in it.

   12. CSCory Sandhagen35:46

       (sighs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan35:46

       Yeah, 'cause I mean, you gotta think it's just, like, sitting pooled-

   14. CSCory Sandhagen35:49

       Oh, yeah. Right, right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan35:49

       ... fluid in your body. And then when you're still in the gym training and it gets, like, in your bloodstream or whatever, it just, like ... It's like a swamp and then it just-

   16. CSCory Sandhagen35:56

       Wasn't that what happened to Ben Askren? Wasn't it a staph infection that turned into pneumonia?

   17. JRJoe Rogan36:02

       Oh, really? I don't know.

   18. CSCory Sandhagen36:03

       I- so I've read some-

   19. JRJoe Rogan36:04

       Is he doing okay? I never actually-

   20. CSCory Sandhagen36:06

       He's not doing okay, man.

   21. JRJoe Rogan36:07

       Oh, no.

   22. CSCory Sandhagen36:07

       H- he needs a lung transplant.

   23. JRJoe Rogan36:09

       Oh, fuck.

   24. CSCory Sandhagen36:10

       Yeah. He had, I think, they call it necrotic pneumonia.

   25. JRJoe Rogan36:15

       Uh-oh.

   26. CSCory Sandhagen36:15

       So essentially it was rotting holes in his lung tissue-

   27. JRJoe Rogan36:19

       Wow.

   28. CSCory Sandhagen36:19

       ... and so they had to put him on a ventilator. And apparently one of his lungs is just gone and they have to replace it, which is-... cr- that's so crazy, because then you have to be on medication for your entire life, because your body wants to reject the lung 'cause it's not your lung. So you have to take these immunosuppressant, so now your immune system is severely suppressed 'cause you have to take immunosuppressant drugs in order to have this. Like, I have a friend who had a heart transplant, and-

   29. JRJoe Rogan36:44

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CSCory Sandhagen36:45

       ... he's all fucked up because of it, you know. It's just like, you're always worried about getting sick 'cause your immune system is very compromised.
10. 42:44 – 53:48

    Gut health, American wheat, fasting, garlic remedies, and cramp prevention myths

    1. JRJoe Rogan42:44

       Yeah.There's probably some, like, old lady in the Amazon jungle that knows how to cure that shit.

    2. CSCory Sandhagen42:49

       I told them, like-

    3. JRJoe Rogan42:49

       It's like, "Just eat this, stupid."

    4. CSCory Sandhagen42:50

       I told them try, like, a seven-day fast.

    5. JRJoe Rogan42:53

       Yeah.

    6. CSCory Sandhagen42:53

       Try something nutty like that.

    7. JRJoe Rogan42:54

       Yeah. But, or like an only avocados diet? (smacks lips)

    8. CSCory Sandhagen42:58

       I mean, there's gotta be something.

    9. JRJoe Rogan42:59

       So, (laughs) there's gotta be something.

    10. CSCory Sandhagen43:00

        There's gotta be something.

    11. JRJoe Rogan43:01

        Yeah.

    12. CSCory Sandhagen43:01

        But I would think, like, a fast, where you just, like, feel like, y- you're just like completely let your gut reset.

    13. JRJoe Rogan43:06

        Yeah.

    14. CSCory Sandhagen43:07

        You mean? I don't know.

    15. JRJoe Rogan43:08

        Do you do those?

    16. CSCory Sandhagen43:09

        No.

    17. JRJoe Rogan43:09

        No, yeah, yeah.

    18. CSCory Sandhagen43:10

        I've done a day.

    19. JRJoe Rogan43:11

        Yeah.

    20. CSCory Sandhagen43:11

        I've never done, like, the long one. Dana just did a long one. He did, like, three days, he said it was awesome. He said by the end of it, you feel fucking amazing.

    21. JRJoe Rogan43:18

        Yeah, I did the three-day one, and then I was like, "Fuck, dude, I was just hungry for three days."

    22. CSCory Sandhagen43:21

        (laughs)

    23. JRJoe Rogan43:21

        "What the fuck?"

    24. CSCory Sandhagen43:22

        (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan43:23

        "I don't feel like a superhero at all." (laughs)

    26. CSCory Sandhagen43:25

        Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's variable. Maybe-

    27. JRJoe Rogan43:29

        I, the one thing that I'm really big on, uh, is I, like, won't fucking, like, um, I'm really in touch with what's going on usually, with, uh, like, my body and stuff. I'm really big on, I, I don't know why it doesn't get talked about more, but, like, digestive, like, things that mess up my digestive system, I don't mess around with at all.

    28. CSCory Sandhagen43:46

        Like what kind of stuff?

    29. JRJoe Rogan43:47

        Like bread, pizzas-

    30. CSCory Sandhagen43:48

        Yeah.
11. 53:48 – 1:12:19

    Weight cuts and weight classes: hydration loading, performance cost, and UFC gaps

    1. CSCory Sandhagen53:48

       Yeah. Yeah, muscle cramps must be brutal when you're cutting weight, right, 'cause you're draining your body of basically everything.

    2. JRJoe Rogan53:54

       Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't... My weight cuts I'm pretty like I kind of got down to a science a little bit. I don't really cramp super bad.

    3. CSCory Sandhagen54:01

       How much do you cut like-

    4. JRJoe Rogan54:03

       A week before I try to be like 16 to 18 pounds heavy over, um, and then I'll lose that last bit that week, but I'll walk around if I'm really fat, like on vacation and shit, not giving a... just not caring, I'll be about 162. When I'm training good and like all of that, I'll be about 157, 158. And then I just got to lose until I'm about 52, 51 the week before, and then that week I lose the rest.

    5. CSCory Sandhagen54:28

       And is it cal- the week is it calorie restriction in the beginning and then water restriction? Or how do you do it?

    6. JRJoe Rogan54:34

       Hmm, it's a dec- so 10 days away, I start loading up on water. Uh, like the rule of thumb is however many pounds you got to lose, that's how many pounds of water you'll drink that day. So if I have 16 to lose, I'll have to drink two gallons of water. Also, don't take any of my advice if you're listening to because I don't really fucking know. I know that like water shit can get really scary. So I don't... You know, like people chugging distilled water have like killed themselves and stuff.

    7. CSCory Sandhagen54:56

       Yeah. Distilled water. Is that what you drink?

    8. JRJoe Rogan54:57

       No, no, no, no, no.

    9. CSCory Sandhagen54:58

       Yeah, yeah. That's not good for you.

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:59

        Um, yeah.

    11. CSCory Sandhagen54:59

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan55:00

        Um-But yeah, 10 days away, I start loading up on the water. And then on the Tuesday, so we weigh in Friday, so however many days before that is, on Tuesday you'll do the, uh, cut the sodium. And then that pretty much ... You lose a lot when you're chugging that much water and cut sodium. So I would say on Tuesday a lot of it is water, and then it's kinda up to me how crazy I wanna go with food. I'm obviously not eating like super huge meals that week. But I don't let myself get too hungry. I'm pretty good about a lot of stuff where now I can kinda be like (laughs) if I go to bed like at like an eight amount of hunger instead of like a seven, I'll know almost exactly how much I'll lose the next day. Which is like kinda cool.

    13. CSCory Sandhagen55:43

        How much of a performance hit do you think you have? I mean, obviously you're in phenomenal condition, but how much of a hit do you think you have in dehydrating yourself 24 hours before a fight?

    14. JRJoe Rogan55:53

        Um, yeah. Good ... I think it depends on how much water you lose too. Um, I think just off the top of my head, maybe 15 or 20.

    15. CSCory Sandhagen56:05

        15 or 20%?

    16. JRJoe Rogan56:06

        Maybe.

    17. CSCory Sandhagen56:07

        So what d- what would you think about if the UFC instituted more weight classes and they eliminated weight cuts?

    18. JRJoe Rogan56:14

        (sighs)

    19. CSCory Sandhagen56:14

        Like w- what if they said like ... 'Cause it is ... For some guys, it is the most dangerous part-

    20. JRJoe Rogan56:19

        Yeah.

    21. CSCory Sandhagen56:19

        ... of the fight, 'cause some guys go hard.

    22. JRJoe Rogan56:21

        Yeah, they do.

    23. CSCory Sandhagen56:21

        Some guys are losing 26, 30 pounds within a couple of days, and they just look like hell.

    24. JRJoe Rogan56:26

        Yeah. I think that the way to solve that ... Because one's tried doing that with like the rehydration test, and everyone that I talk to that's like been involved with that has been like, "Dude, I could cheat that easy."

    25. CSCory Sandhagen56:37

        Oh, really?

    26. JRJoe Rogan56:38

        Yeah. Um, but-

    27. CSCory Sandhagen56:40

        How do they cheat it?

    28. JRJoe Rogan56:42

        Uh, I mean, there's just like ... If you know that you're gonna get like hydrate tested at a certain time, I'm sure that they probably just drink most of their water during that time or something like that.

    29. CSCory Sandhagen56:51

        But then your weight would be higher, right?

    30. JRJoe Rogan56:53

        Uh, y- yeah, your weight would have to be higher. But I don't know that they like test you ... Yeah, yeah, I guess I, I don't really know honestly. But, um, I mean, if they're gonna test you when you're ... Do they test you like-

Episode duration: 2:33:57