EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,030 words- 0:00 – 1:54
Golf obsession in the fight world: Gaethje wins a Ferrari
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to see you, brother. What's happening?
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah, good to see you too.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm good.
- CSCory Sandhagen
We were talking about golf and, uh, Jamie, who's a full-blown addict-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. What's up?
- CSCory Sandhagen
(laughs) What's up?
- JRJoe Rogan
What do you wanna know?
- CSCory Sandhagen
What's up? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
What do you wanna know? What do you wanna hear about?
- CSCory Sandhagen
I don't know, dude. I feel like everyone is now. So you're saying Gaethje's fully hooked?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, fully hooked. It's crazy.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He, uh... Yeah, I don't know. Do you know what Fanatics Fest is?
- CSCory Sandhagen
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
So Fanatics Fest is... I was just at it on Sunday, but it's just like a, it's like com- kind of like Comic-Con but for athletes. And Gaethje got to do, like, the Fanatics game, which is, like, a celebrity thing, where it's, like, 50 pro athletes do it, 50 normal people, and they compete in a bunch of sports or whatever. He said he won because he was good at golf, so the fucking guy won a Ferrari 'cause he got second place. Tom Brady got first, he got a million dollars. And then, like, a normal, like, non-professional athlete got third place, he got, like, 200K.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Whoa.
- JRJoe Rogan
So it's fucking-
- CSCory Sandhagen
He got a Ferrari?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, dude, golf got him-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Holy shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Golf got him for this (laughs) fucking Ferrari. I think he took-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Holy shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. So he's... So that kinda just enforced his addiction more than...
- CSCory Sandhagen
But damn, he's that good?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he's pretty good. I- you know, I mean, for... I don't know shit about golf, but from what I know-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Daniel told me, DC told me that he started off and he was just kinda okay. But over the time, between the Holloway fight and his-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... fight with Fiziev, he didn't do anything but play golf for a year.
- 1:54 – 5:56
Trevor Wittman’s gloves vs. UFC gear and the eye-poke problem
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. He's a, he's a unique dude for sure. I've really liked, 'cause, uh, obviously, you know I started working with Wittman not too long ago.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, I've really enjoyed getting to know, like, that crew, like Trevor, Gaethje, Kamaru.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Trevor's a unique guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he's, yeah, all of those guys are pretty unique in their own way, yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
He makes the best fucking MMA gloves that have ever been made, and the UFC should've bought them out a long time ago. I think he wanted some crazy amount of money or something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
I think it was, like, some nutty deal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Unfortunate.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
They should've just licensed it. They should've just made some sort of a deal, like, "You... L- we'll sell the gloves, you make the money."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
"Let's just get the athletes the best gloves bought." They're so much better.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're way better. Yeah, the foam in them is really good. Uh, I mean-
- CSCory Sandhagen
The shape is better.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
The protection of your hands is better.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Trevor's one of those guys where, uh, I'm kinda similar to, like, most things aren't stimulating enough. Like, TV, kinda playing on my phone isn't really super stimulating to me. So, like, he's always, like, doing something, so he's always, like, making shit. But he'd be, when I would go into Onyx, he'd just be in the back, like, with this smile, like, working on the gloves, like, every single morning that he's there. And, uh, the style that they have is real cool. People keep asking me when they're gonna come out with them, and I think he's getting pretty close, so...
- CSCory Sandhagen
I just really wish that him and the UFC could make a deal.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
'Cause they try, they spent so much time and money to develop those new gloves-
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... and then they threw them out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I hate that too. I liked the new ones.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Did you?
- JRJoe Rogan
I have really thin... Like, my hands aren't massive like some of these guys. Um, the old ones are better for, like, if you have, like, a really thick hand, the old ones are way better. But I have a thin hand, dude, and those things used to fit me, like, perfectly.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Hmm.
- 5:56 – 7:05
Sparring, training partners, and building longevity through style
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah. That ... How important is that? And is, like, having training partners that are l- that are conscientious, and that aren't gonna fucking blast you? Like, the, the miles that guys take off of the clock when they're training is so big.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's big. I think ... I don't ... I mean, we spar. But I spar pretty hard still. I know that, like, not a lot of people are crazy about that. But-
- CSCory Sandhagen
But you don't get hit a lot though.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's true. (laughs) Yeah, that's true.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Because the thing is, you're slick.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's true.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like, for a guy who's just like a fucking face first grrr.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
You know? That's ... There's, there's styles that enhance the longevity-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... and you have a style that enhances longevity 'cause not only do you not get hit a lot, but you're also like ... You're a puzzle.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
You know? You're not ... It's not like, "Oh, here he comes." It's like, "Where? Where? What, what's going on here?" You know? There's a lot of thinking that a guy has to do when they're interacting. You know, you have so much, so many feints and so many stance switches.
- JRJoe Rogan
Definitely.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It's such a smart style, man. I love watching you fight-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, thank you.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... because it's like it's so ... You can see that the, the fighter, if they don't ... And, and by the way, they're probably not used to training with somebody like you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... because there's not a lot of guys like you. You can see how there's all these adjustments that they have to make on the fly-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... that makes you think.
- 7:05 – 8:49
Defense, grappling appreciation, and why casuals boo
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I mean, uh, I always really looked up to all of the defensive guys that I would watch. Like, I know that in boxing, defensive ... Just winning the defensive battle is a big piece in boxing. And the judges almost even score a little bit for it. But in MMA, it's just all o- like, only offense scores.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
S- so that's not really the way that I grew up thinking was good martial arts, really. 'Cause my f- some of my favorite guys were Mayweather, Pernell Whitaker-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... Nanido Donaire, like, all of-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... these really awesome, like, movers that did a phenomenal job at protecting themselves. And ... But now, man, people ... I feel like even more so now, people want more blood and more offense. Like-
- CSCory Sandhagen
The casuals.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah. That, that shit drives me nuts.
- JRJoe Rogan
It does, man.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It na- it just drives me nuts. And, and catering to the casuals?
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like, fuck off. Like, whenever someone, like, boos, and then they separate people or stand people up, I go crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
What are you doing?
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Fuck the crowd.
- JRJoe Rogan
D- I think grappling is really hard to understand unless you've done it.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, striking is easy to understand. Like, okay, that guy hit the shit m- out of that guy more than the other guy hit him.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Grappling is like, it's a whole ... It's like super proprioceptive. You know? Like-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
A lot of what's going on in grappling isn't ... It's, like, hidden to the eye. You know what I mean?
- CSCory Sandhagen
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's where am I sitting my weight? Where am I-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... doing this? And, um ... And, yeah, so it kinda just ... People just don't think it's cool. But when you understand grappling, like, it's amazing to watch.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yes.
- 8:49 – 13:28
Judging problems: near submissions, 10-8 logic, and scoring reform ideas
- CSCory Sandhagen
Well, it's hard to judge too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Which is a real problem 'cause there's judges that don't train and never have trained.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Which is, to me, fucking crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
That's like judging a Chinese spelling bee and you don't speak Chinese.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like, whose nose is fucking winning here? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I know, dude. I know it.
- CSCory Sandhagen
They don't understand it. They understand when someone's on top. "Oh, he's on top."
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
But, you know, there's so many, like, near submission attempts that I think should count. Like, like, I always go to the Oliveira, Arman Tsarukyan fight 'cause I think Oliveira won that fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
'Cause Oliveira came close to finishing him twice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
And Tsarukyan stayed on top, and he had a lotta control, and it was a very close fight. But I think those fucking moments where a guy is like at nine ... You know, if 10 is checkmate, he's at nine twice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
That's big, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
That ... You don't wanna be there. That guy got you there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
He's got a fucking locked-in triangle. Yeah, you got out of it, but still, that, that's big, man. That should count. And damage leading up to a KO or that doesn't lead to a KO is very significant in the scorecards. But a submission that doesn't lead up to a submission doesn't count. And I don't understand that. You can't just count damage. You have to count, like, near falls or near, near, near subs.
- JRJoe Rogan
I agree. Yeah. I mean, if you, if you wanna take for example too, like, even like a me and a TJ fight. Like, TJ was limping outta that cage, and I was kinda, you know, like-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... "Oh, cool," you know? And I don't think that that should count for everything, but like you're saying, like the reason that he was limping out of that cage is because I popped his knee really bad.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? Like, he had to spend the next 18 months making his knee better so that he could fight again. And I was able to fight, you know, pretty shortly afterwards, so yeah, there's gotta be something to that. Like, if you pop someone's shit really bad, it, it should count just as much as a knockdown or something like that. What do you think about the idea of, uh, like ten eight rounds for, like, things that are known? Not just like, okay, this person won by a mile, but it's l- like, in kickboxing they do. If you get knocked down in a round, it's automatically a ten eight round.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
You like that for MMA, or no?
- 13:28 – 14:45
Pace, “blitz” strategies, and a wild fight example (Mota vs. Sodikov)
- CSCory Sandhagen
It's l- like, there's so many fights where ... Did you see the, the past, the Azerbaijan fight?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, I didn't watch those ones, no. I watched Curtis' fight and a guy named Mohammed's fight on my team, but no, I didn't watch the other ones.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It was, uh, k- who was it? Uh, Mota and the other guy from Azerbaijan. See if you can find his name. Salikov? Fuck. I, I hadn't seen him fight before.
- JRJoe Rogan
What weight class was it?
- CSCory Sandhagen
Um, I think it was 45. This guy? Yeah. No, it was lightweight. Yeah. Sodikov and Nicholas Mota. Nazim Sodikov and Nicholas Mota. Fucking crazy fight, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It was so good that Dana White gave them double bonuses.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, nice. Sweet.
- CSCory Sandhagen
But Mota landed a 75 punch combination.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like I'm not kidding, man. He landed, like s- and then Sodikov came back and stopped him.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, shit.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It was wild.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, shit. I was cool.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Just, like, a wild fight. Like, a fight like that where two guys just f- and Mota, like, basically emptied out the tank, but Sodikov had fantastic defense, just kept covering and moving and just getting bombed on-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... to the body and to the head, but he kee- it looked like it was getting close to stopping-
- JRJoe Rogan
Nice.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... and then all of a sudden, he comes back and you see Mota's taking these-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSCory Sandhagen
... big, deep breaths and whoo. It was wild.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah. When that strategy works, it works, but when it doesn't-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you're in some shit.
- CSCory Sandhagen
That's the problem.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 14:45 – 22:49
Work ethic extremes: Merab’s engine, Jon Jones’ layoffs, and momentum
- CSCory Sandhagen
The, the, the blitz print and very few guys. You know, we were talking about Gaethje and golf, and I was saying that I'm scared of golf and y- you know, you were like, "I don't have time for golf." The k- there's a, the thing that happens with golf is it takes so much time and it's so addictive, that it's gonna take away time from other stuff-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... no matter what you do. And when you look at a guy ... Like, I always point to Merab because the day after he beat Sean the first fight, DC went to his house to, to go talk to him and he was out running.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
The day after.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like, that's a guy who does not stop.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
And that extreme physicality and that extreme endurance, because he is just constantly working, that means something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It counts. If you take months off, you take s- you know, like ... Like, this was the thing that I was thinking about with Jon Jones. Jon Jones said he need- needed six months-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... to prepare for Aspinall, if he was gonna fight Aspinall. So they were trying to make a deal and then he decided to retire. But it's six months because he's not training.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like, at all.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like, he just doesn't train. Like, in between fights, just doesn't train.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Which to m- He used to do that-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... a lot when he was younger too, which is- I always thought it was crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
That is crazy to me. I always saw guys do that, like when I was in my 20s and, like, I would watch these really big fighters just not train unless it was a training camp time and I'd be like, "Fuck that. I'm never being that way." Um, I don't know, man. That's, that's, like, a really weird one to me, but I don't wanna bash it too bad 'cause I do know a lot of guys that do do that, but-
- CSCory Sandhagen
But look at Jon.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Greatest of all time.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It's like, how did he do that? He's that talented.
- JRJoe Rogan
I really don't know. I don't know how that works. Like, I want it to make sense in my head that, like, the harder you work, the more shit you'll get from it, you know?
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is, like, true to an extent, but then you have, like, these weird outlier guys that maybe have something more figured out than me that I don't have figured out or whatever, but I mean, that to me is, like, completely unacceptable in my head. Like I, I, I think that, um, I really hate when people say that they wanna be something and then they don't do any of the actions to, like, actually do that thing that they're saying that they wanna be.
- 22:49 – 26:33
Camp structure and mindset: ‘build skills’ then ‘practice winning’
- CSCory Sandhagen
What is the difference between your training, like regular training, and then training once you get into camp? How m- like, what is a normal day when you're not in camp for you?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, it's all the exact same. I'm just less competitive when I'm outside of camp.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, and I won't, if I, if I'm like beat to shit, dead tired, I'll miss a practice. But that's really the only time that I'll miss practice. In camp, I won't miss, um, unless... I have like a two-week rule, where if I'm like dragging really bad, I'll make myself go for another week and a half, two weeks until I'm like, "Okay, I, I, I, I, I, I do actually need to rest." You know? And then so I'll do that in camp. Um, but yeah. I, uh, but outside of camp, it's pretty much the exact same. I've been traveling l- a lot, which I really don't like doing, um, just because, again, like I, I don't really feel like I'm alive. I feel like I'm like fast-forwarding through a bunch of stuff. Um, but it's been, like, useful stuff, like seeing family and then, like, me and my wife going on our honeymoon or whatever. So it's like normal life shit that I guess I gotta check in and do every once in a while. But if it were up to me, it would just be like training camp life-
- CSCory Sandhagen
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... all of the time. Just 'cause it's easier. It's way easier. It's fun. It's easy. I go to the gym. I do my hard workouts. I'm competitive as fuck. I get to get that out of me. And then I just hang with my friends for an hour afterwards.
- CSCory Sandhagen
When you say you're less competitive when you're just normal training, like, d- is that conscious?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like, do you decide to be less competitive? And why do you do that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, I do that because I can't, I think that, um, if I'm too competitive, I won't work on stuff. Like, it, like, uh-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... a lot of camp, for me, is getting better at stuff, and then the last four weeks is figuring out how to win.It's not like ... I think that practicing winning is just as important as being able to practice a certain skill. So, a lot of my camps will be developing those skills, but then like the last four or five weeks, it's just ... I need to focus on winning each round regardless of who it's against or whatever. I'm not like practicing a certain technique or doing anything like that, it's just win, win, win.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Just doing whatever it takes to win that round.
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, because that's an important skill to build.
- CSCory Sandhagen
And when you're less competitive, when you're just training and you're not in camp, you'll try things-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
... you'll be a little more playful, try to like sort stuff, try new, new skills.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I'm definitely not sparring hard as fuck like I do in camp too.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm. Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, like I won't do that outside of camp unless I got a guy that's been giving me a bunch of rounds in my camps and he has a fight coming up and, and then I'll like gear up to give him a good one, you know? But, uh, no outside camp comp-... like just less competitive. I don't show up as early and get my mind right before. When I'm in camp, every single sparring session that I do, I try to put myself in the locker room while I'm warming up. Um, I think that that's like ... I've had a lot of success doing that. Um, just making my body make good decisions when I'm in a super elevated high-intensity state is something you gotta practice too. I definitely won't do that outside of camp 'cause that's a lot of energy.
- CSCory Sandhagen
So you visualize the walk out, you visualize like stepping into the octagon, all that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, essentially. Um, it's not as ... So I don't do as much of, um ... I'd more so go off of feel a little bit more now, where I'll be like, "Okay, I need to do this today because I know that I really don't wanna do it."
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, or I'll be like, "Okay, this day for whatever reason I'm really distracted, I'll do a little bit more visualization, mindful stuff or whatever." 'Cause every day is different in sparring, um, as you know, where some days you're good to go right off the bat and then other days you're dragging. It's those days that you're dragging that I make sure that I'm like r-... Those ones I'll be like, "Okay, fucking visualize because your body doesn't wanna do this right now." And I'll put myself in that state twice a week which is, um, has helped a lot- a lot, a lot.
- 26:33 – 29:30
Delegation and coaching lessons: dropping micromanagement after the Umar fight
- CSCory Sandhagen
I know for a while you were organizing y- your whole camp, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Are you still doing that?
- JRJoe Rogan
No, I don't do that anymore. That has-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... actually been like a super significant piece in one, my life getting a lot better and then two, I think that like it... I think it's gonna transfer over really well into my next few fights. Um, for a really long time, for a lot of reasons, I was like really micro-manage-y over my own- my stuff. Uh, I don't like when people do things for me. Like I- I kind of like live in a way where everything is my responsibility and if I fuck up, it was like on me regardless of what happens which is like a fine way to be but also it's not like crazy realistic either. Um, but that's just kind of the way that I am, just the way that I grew up, like it was kind of like take care of me type of thing, you know? And if I'm messing stuff up, it's on me. Um, so I- I was like that for a really long time. It was actually after the Umar fight where I realized how in the way I got of myself in that fight.
- CSCory Sandhagen
How so?
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, overdoing it, um, from insecurity a little bit, um, over... N- like that was my first camp with Trevor too and Trevor's a phenomenal coach. I've known him for a lot of years, he has a lot of champions. There's no like... There's no reason to doubt any of what he has going on or my other coach, Carrington Banks, or anyone really. But because I kind of have this mindset on life, or did used to have this mindset on life where it was, "Hey man, like manage everything, like make sure everyone's doing their work, like blah, blah, blah." Like after that Umar fight, I really got into, uh... I was like, "All right, fuck it guys. Like I messed that one up I felt like, because I was trying to be too micro-manage-y over this thing, I started getting outside of myself, you guys take over." And the reason that I did that wasn't necessarily because I lost, it's because I'm coaching a couple professionals now and coaching a professional is different than coaching an amateur. Um, it's like a l-... It feels like a lot more responsibility and I realized what was happening when I would try to help these couple guys that I was trying to help is that they- they are too close to it, the same way that I'm sure you get too close to your art as well, like in comedy. You're too close to it sometimes where you don't really... You can't see things from a perspective that is like true and real-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... because you're so locked into what it is that you're doing.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
I really big time realized that that was a thing in my other guys so when I would try to help them and they'd be like, "Hey man, like I don't..." Like they'd kind of get a little argumentative, I'd be like, "You can keep doing that but I'm a- I'm a thousand percent sure that I'm right about this, you know? But do your own thing." And I started to realize like, "Oh fuck, that's what I do all the time." (laughs)
- CSCory Sandhagen
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Like I gotta... I was like, "Fuck dude, I gotta stop being argumentative and just shut the fuck up and listen if I really trust these guys."
- CSCory Sandhagen
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so I started doing that big time, man, and it made my... It changed so much stuff for me.
- CSCory Sandhagen
I forgot who you fight- fought your last fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, I fought Figi last.
- CSCory Sandhagen
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
And Figi blew his knee out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 29:30 – 31:26
Leg locks and 50/50: hurting knees, niche grappling, and Ryan Hall’s influence
- CSCory Sandhagen
So that's the- essentially the same position that you got in with TJ, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep. Yep. 50/50.
- CSCory Sandhagen
And what... That- that's like you're l-... Th- th- so this is all Ryan Hall stuff, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep.
- CSCory Sandhagen
And so you're putting him in a position where if he doesn't know what you're doing and he tries to get out of it, he's gonna blow his knee?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep, essentially. I- I- I like 50/50 a lot because one, I get to learn it from the guy who essentially invented it and is the best at it in the world. The only guys that I feel like can beat me at 50/50 are guys that train at 50/50. Um, and so it's kind of like what... It feels like 50/50 the position and just kind of leg locks in general if you really know how to do 'em in MMA, um, are a spot that you can pull people into and have them be completely lost.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, be-
- CSCory Sandhagen
'Cause they have to think, "What do I do now?" And you're already moving.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's super niche too.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like understanding the position is super niche.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like judo almost a little bit in wrestling where it's like...... okay, cool, if this guy's gonna just wrestle with me, great. But if this guy has good throws, that changes a lot of the way that I have to do things. I can pull people into these really niche spots, um, where I, where I know that I'm gonna win them. Um, so 50/50 is one of those. It's kinda like what jujitsu used to be a little bit, before people started to understand jujitsu.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
But now people fully understand jujitsu, so you don't really get to, like, catch people in guillotines or whatever. But 50/50 and a lot of the leg locks and a lot of stuff that Ryan teaches me and does is so niche that, like, you would need an absolute expert to understand it. And I, like, get the fortune of having that.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah, that's awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
He's so fucking smart too. That dude is just ... Like, his analysis of jujitsu and the way he's broken down different positions, it's, it's real exciting to watch. Is he fighting ... I know he's had, like, nine surgeries or something crazy, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he's had ... Yeah, it's, like, closer to 1,000, but, uh-
- CSCory Sandhagen
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) But, uh, but yeah. He ... I mean, he's doing good. He says he wants to fight again. I ho- I hope that he does.
- 31:26 – 43:29
Surgery, staph, and antibiotics: fighter health scares (Askren, Gordon Ryan, and more)
- CSCory Sandhagen
Why is he having all these surgeries? Like, what's going on?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think it's um- uh, just one of those things where, like, you let one thing go, and then another thing breaks, and then another thing breaks, and you kinda, like, are taping yourself back together. And then one day you wake up and you're like, "Shit, I gotta, like, take care of this." It's kinda-
- CSCory Sandhagen
How many ... What other surgeries did he have?
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, I'm not sure specifically. The ... (laughs) You name it, he's probably had it. Um, like, there-
- CSCory Sandhagen
I've never heard of anybody having that many surgeries.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a couple of knee ones, a couple of shoulder ones. Um, honestly, I quit asking after a certain point. Um, but yeah, I think that he's kinda coming back. Ryan, more than anything ... I'm, like, a super conceptual thinker. Like, I don't really like details. Like, I don't remember names of stuff that ... Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
19 general anesthesia s- ... First of all, that is so bad for your future.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know. That is really. I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
So bad for you to go under general 19 ... Can you go back up there, what it says there?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSCory Sandhagen
It says, "Tearing his ACL the following year is the many surgeries. Jujitsu specialist wasn't out of the woods just yet." That is so crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Okay. So he had to fix a planter plate. So that's his foot. Uh, got, got fallen on again, had to have a tight rope surgery, the one that Pat Mahomes got and a lot of other people have had. I don't know what that one is. Do you know what that is, tight rope surgery?
- JRJoe Rogan
Nope, no idea.
- CSCory Sandhagen
ACL got infected, had to have a couple of septic, uh, septic arthritis. Ugh. "The tight rope was actually allergic to the hardware they put in me some-" Oh my God. So he had to have that redone. Boy. Came to injuries, he said, "Completely bulletproof for 15 years," until his training camp for Topuria, where he tore his hip right before the fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Tight rope is, uh, used to stabilize ankle.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Oh. Wow. That is crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he, he-
- CSCory Sandhagen
He said more than half the surgeries of ones were, "Oops, we screwed up. Let's do that again."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CSCory Sandhagen
Had six elbow surgeries and five knee surgeries. Holy shit. Holy shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I don't like taking any type of medication ever, so that would probably really bother me having to be under that much. I- it would probably really fuck me up.
- CSCory Sandhagen
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- CSCory Sandhagen
General anesthesia is very bad for you.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know. I know. It's kinda scary, dude.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah. It's fucking scary.
- JRJoe Rogan
It makes ... I've only had a couple surg- how many surgeries have you had? Like, under the knife-
- CSCory Sandhagen
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... like, had to go under?
- 43:29 – 1:17:24
Food, digestion, hydration windows, and weight-cut mechanics
- JRJoe Rogan
I, the one thing that I'm really big on, uh, is I, like, won't fucking, like, um, I'm really in touch with what's going on usually, with, uh, like, my body and stuff. I'm really big on, I, I don't know why it doesn't get talked about more, but, like, digestive, like, things that mess up my digestive system, I don't mess around with at all.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like what kind of stuff?
- JRJoe Rogan
Like bread, pizzas-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... too much cheese, stuff like that. Like, um-
- CSCory Sandhagen
Bread's-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like-
- CSCory Sandhagen
... fucking terrible for you.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is, dude. Every time I eat pizza, I, like, can't shit the next day.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It's not p- it's not even pizza. It's American pizza.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It's our wheat. Our wheat is poisoned.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It really is. It's sprayed with folic acid, and it's fucking, a- all the nutrients are pulled out of it. There's glyphosate in the wheat. It's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
That's what's really going on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I know.
- CSCory Sandhagen
And it's also a reengineered wheat, so it's got more glutens, more complex glutens, so it's got a higher yield per acre.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CSCory Sandhagen
So your body's like, "Whoa, what is this?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It causes all this inflammation. When I go to Italy, I eat pizza over there. I eat a whole pizza, I feel great.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really? You can shit nice the next day?
- CSCory Sandhagen
Oh, man, I feel great. I never have a problem shitting.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- CSCory Sandhagen
But I do feel bloated. Like, I get a, my gut swells up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
Like, whoa. Like, I'll eat a giant bowl of spaghetti or something like that, and then I look like I'm pregnant.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CSCory Sandhagen
It's something. It's horrible.
Episode duration: 2:33:57
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Transcript of episode DKUCkIkB4Zw
