EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,040 words- 0:02 – 1:19
Post-fight weight gain and how weight cutting warps MMA
- SPSpeaker
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
- JRJoe Rogan
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- SPSpeaker
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] What up, bro?
- JRJoe Rogan
What's happening, bro?
- SPSpeaker
Good to see you, my friend.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to be back, bro.
- SPSpeaker
Dustin Poirier, the light heavyweight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] It's, it's thick boy summer.
- JRJoe Rogan
You looking healthy, son.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, like 190, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
You look good, man.
- SPSpeaker
I feel good, dude. It feels good to eat and not count carbohydrates and calories.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, we were talking about that. Were you, like, still, like, a little part of you is, like, looks at meals and goes, "Uh..."
- SPSpeaker
Well, I mean, for the last 20 years, I've been macro and, you know, I knew I had a fight coming up. Even if I didn't have a fight, I had to be in striking range from 155.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
So I was always looking at the back of every label, being real cautious of what I eat. It's, like, ingrained in my daughter now. When we go to Whole Foods, she'll grab something off the counter and say, "Dad, it only has three ingredients." Like, she knows what's up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's good to think that way anyway.
- SPSpeaker
For sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
E- especially with the ingredients, you know?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, she, that's the first thing she goes to. Like, if she wants some chips, "It only has five ingredients." That's, like, a thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, good
- SPSpeaker
... for her when we're shopping.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, that's smart, man. That's cool. You're raising them right.
- SPSpeaker
I'm trying to, bro.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I'm trying to put the stuff I learned in fighting, you know, all the years-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... to good use.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, uh, it, it is kind of crazy. I think it's the worst thing about fighting, is the weight cutting. Do you imagine-
- 1:19 – 4:59
Fixing divisions: more weight classes, hydration rules, and heavyweight limits
- JRJoe Rogan
... if everybody just ... First of all, I, tell me if you agree, but I think the UFC needs way more weight classes.
- SPSpeaker
I, I do, too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Way more.
- SPSpeaker
I do, too. Because the gaps are so big. I mean, just if you look at boxing compared to mixed martial arts, the, the, the jumps in weight are so big from each weight class. But also, all the shows they're putting on, they'd have more titles, more belts-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... more big fights. But also, man, with that, there's gonna be a lot of people trying to cut a little bit extra, trying to be double champ in every weight class. I think it, it does cause more confusion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, but that's better than the extreme weight cuts. The extreme weight cuts are ter- did, you saw that dude a few, um, like, uh, like, I guess it was about three events ago, who face planted-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and got removed off the card?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That is crazy. You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before they have an MMA fight, which is the most, if not the most dangerous sport, one of the most dangerous sports in the world.
- SPSpeaker
For sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, and you're doing something to your body to extremely weaken it 24 hours before you fight. It's bananas.
- SPSpeaker
Dude, I did it so many times.
- JRJoe Rogan
It makes no sense.
- SPSpeaker
You're preaching to the choir. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
I know. But I mean-
- SPSpeaker
There's been so many times I've felt like that, like, stand up too quick after a weight cut and I'm like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh
- SPSpeaker
... "You know, I, I might go down."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, dude, I, I mean, I can only imagine. When you see someone like Pereira that's cutting, like, 25 pounds and more.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
When he was 185, I mean, that guy was fighting inside the octagon at 225-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and weighing in at 185 24 hours before.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy.
- SPSpeaker
And even when he's big, he's lean. You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
It's not like he's fluffy. Fluffy guy.
- 4:59 – 7:22
Heavyweight realities: grappling, size advantages, and “dream fights” that never happened
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the difference in boxing, though, is the grappling. The grappling in MMA, the gap if a guy gets on top of you is immense.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
If you got a f- like, Ngannou, when he was in his prime, was weighing over, like, 300 pounds-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then cutting down to 265. He was a 300-pound natural.
- SPSpeaker
He's a guy who's, like, uh, knockdown power for sure, but grappling, like, if you get a big guy who's 265 and knows how to grapple very well, wrestled his whole life, if they get in side control or-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... half guard, you're not getting up.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- SPSpeaker
That's the end of the round.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Also, if they did do a super heavy, the fights might be either awesome or just completely suck.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I think it should be, heavyweight should be unlimited, and then you'll find out.
- SPSpeaker
Like I do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Because, like, Cain Velasquez, no one's holding that dude down in his prime.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Even when he was 240. When he was 240 and he fought Lesnar, Lesnar was gigantic, but it didn't matter because the cardio that Cain had, and the speed, and his technique sort of, it, it bo-
- SPSpeaker
He was ahead of his time, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. He was ahead of his time.
- SPSpeaker
He was ahead of his ... He was like a hybrid, can do everythingGreat cardio, good athlete before MMA got to where it's at now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. The one fight that I always say that we missed is Cain and Fedor in their primes.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause they were both in their prime at the same time, and they never made that happen.
- SPSpeaker
When UFC absorbed the, the Pride roster and stuff, I was crazy, it's crazy that Fedor never fought in the UFC at all, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it was a, they tried. The UFC tried.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But Fedor's management were a bunch of very dangerous dudes.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, you don't mess around with those guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs] Fucking, yeah, man. There was, like, tense negotiations, and they wanted a percentage of the promotion. They wanted a lot more than just a big purse.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, UFC's not playing that game.
- 7:22 – 9:32
Fighter pay: contracts, revenue splits, and the UFC’s attention monopoly
- JRJoe Rogan
Does it make you angry?
- SPSpeaker
Nah. Nah, because the future, myself looking back, or looking forward, when guys are gonna be fighting for belts and stuff, the money they're gonna make in five years, I'ma be, I'ma be that guy. Like, damn, you know, I got out too early, or, you know how it is. The next generation always gets more.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
Mike Brown tells me that all the time. "Dude, you, I was fighting for the belt in WEC, defending it, making this. You guys on the prelims are making more than I was making," you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, there's a weird, uh, th- that sort of discussion about fighter pay, you know, I've, I've always been of the opinion that fighters should be making more money, period because, like, the same way I feel about, like, the way I run my comedy club, the comedians make 80% of the money 'cause I feel like that's who's, you're paying to see. You're paying to see them. We make plenty of money, like, with drinks and 20% of the ticket sale. It's like, it's enough.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, it should be the, the w- if we had a comedy club and there's no comedians, no one's coming, right? No one's gonna pay just to sit there and buy drinks. Like, the whole idea is they're paying to see someone's work. If you fight, that's what people are paying to see. They're paying to see fighters.
- SPSpeaker
Without the fighters, there's no show. Without the comedians-
- JRJoe Rogan
There's no show
- SPSpeaker
... there's no show. I understand.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um-
- SPSpeaker
But I think the big thing with the discussion of fighter pay is the, is the percentages.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
When you look at other maker, major organizations like NFL, NBA, the percentages are so, so different.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's not good.
- SPSpeaker
But, dude, at the end of the day, I'm all for fighter pay, too. I've been fighting my whole life. But you sign the contract, you agree. This is how business is done. Push for, try to get more of what you're worth. You know, you can't sign a contract and complain.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. That's true, too, but also, it's like, the reality of MMA is if you're not in the UFC, people are not paying attention. That's unfortunate-
- SPSpeaker
True, true, true
- JRJoe Rogan
... but it's reality.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, and I think there's some really good fighters that fight in the PFL and really good fighters that fight in ONE, but they don't, no one knows who they are other than the hardcore dudes.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I got a buddy, Johnny Eblen, who was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... the Bellator champion.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's awesome.
- SPSpeaker
I've been training with him since he started MMA, when he got out of college wrestling and stuff. Like, right now, he can go to the UFC and give the top five guys a run for their money.
- JRJoe Rogan
Absolutely.
- SPSpeaker
No doubt in my mind.
- 9:32 – 11:20
American Top Team training culture: killer rounds, gym politics, and sparring risks
- SPSpeaker
Just because you fight in the UFC, that's a great organization to fight for, the biggest, the most known worldwide, but dude, there's great fighters everywhere. You know, like, on the, on the mats at American Top Team, there's a dozen guys you never heard of that can make a run in the UFC right now.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what I heard is a nightmare about training at American Top Team. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
'Cause it's a revolving door, man. There's like 100 professional fighters on the mats at all times.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Different camps, they have dorms, so guys are from Russia, guys from all over the world are just in. You never know who's gonna be there, and it's, it's tough rounds. You know, every practice is tough.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, not only that, but I've heard there's, like, guys coming in from Russia, and they'll throw oblique kicks at your knees, and you're like, "Hey, man. Like, what are we doing here? We're getting ready for fights. We're not in a fight."
- SPSpeaker
Right. Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, some of these guys are trying to make their name off of a name guy, and so you have to be very selective in who you spar with.
- SPSpeaker
For sure, and that's any, not just American Top Team.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
Especially guys who are established. Like, if I go to any gym here in Austin, and it's open mat or something, I have a target on my back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course.
- SPSpeaker
You know, that's everywhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course.
- SPSpeaker
But those guys, man, like at a g- big gym like American Top Team with the knowledge and the good coaches, those guys get weeded out.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's good.
- SPSpeaker
You know, you, you won't stay there long if you're doing that stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
The problem is if you're one of the guys that has to weed them out, like, you find out early on this dude's, you know, throwing wheel kicks-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... full blast.
- SPSpeaker
And it happens all the time.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, just, you know, it makes sense. I mean, you're from Dagestan or Chechnya or whatever, and you come to America-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's like, this is your big chance.
- SPSpeaker
And I do like to train hard. To prepare for a fight, you gotta fight, but the, you know, you gotta take care of each other. We're professionals.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
We're feeding our family with this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 11:20 – 21:46
Old-school MMA in Louisiana and the pioneers who shaped 155 (Yves Edwards era)
- SPSpeaker
Me. Yeah, like, the early days, we didn't really have s- classes that were organized, man. It was just sparring and choking each other out, and with four-ounce gloves sparring. Like, we didn't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- SPSpeaker
We didn't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Isn't that crazy? Like-
- SPSpeaker
Like 2006, dude, we used to beat each other up every day. That was MMA training.
- JRJoe Rogan
[exhales]
- SPSpeaker
And then it wasn't these super gyms where everything was under one roof. I would drive to a boxing gym, drive another 45 minutes to a jujitsu gym. You know, it was, put everything together on fight night, but you would train everywhere else 'cause there wasn't mixed martial arts gyms back then, really. I would drive to a kickboxing gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jujitsu. It was all separate.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, also, you were in a place that didn't have, like, a high volume of MMA fighters in your state.
- SPSpeaker
Right. M- back then, like, m-Rich Clemente, Melvin Guillard-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... were the big guys from-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- SPSpeaker
... Louisiana, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
Then Tim Creter came, got-
- JRJoe Rogan
Crazy Tim.
- SPSpeaker
Crazy Tim got on The Ultimate Fighter, and then I went to his gym once he got out of, uh, the TV show.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And, uh, me and him trained for years and years. He still has a gym in Lafayette, Louisiana.
- JRJoe Rogan
I loved Tim. I, I've known Tim since, I, I first worked out with him in, like, '98 at Machado's.
- SPSpeaker
Well, he was in maybe the Navy, so he was in California stationed there, and I think that's when he started jujitsu. He was Louisiana's first black belt.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, I knew him from that, and then he was fighting, and he was fighting in the UFC. It's-
- SPSpeaker
And co- he was always around the MMA scene. Him and Yves Edwards were, were good friends. They opened a gym maybe in Houston or something. He was cornering Yves in Pride, and then I met Yves through Tim, and it's just... It's a big family, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yves a guy that I always say, there was a time where he was the best 155-pounder on earth.
- SPSpeaker
When he beat Josh Thompson.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
He's the uncrowned-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes
- 21:46 – 32:12
The PED/TRT era: testing loopholes, tainted supplements, and why durability changed
- SPSpeaker
I just worked, um, the UFC desk with Bisping in Vegas when Max and Charles fought, and we started talking about the same thing we're talking about now, and he was like, "Oh, I fought veto, I fought them all in the height of TRT."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
You know, he's fought a bunch of guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that was legal juice, which was bananas.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, Allister-
- JRJoe Rogan
That they allowed g- Oh, yeah. That was the juiciest fight of all time.
- SPSpeaker
Just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Allister versus, uh, versus Brock was the juiciest fight-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... of all time.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I recently watched the, uh, Mark Hunt documentary and, um, he's trying to, like, push back and do a lawsuit against the UFC for all the juicing and stuff, but I mean, it's such a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That's a tough, that's a tough road because how much can the UFC do? I mean, I think-
- SPSpeaker
It's, and it's on the athletic commission as well, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Wouldn't the lawsuit be against the state, not the UFC?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think his position is that the UFC knew that, um-
- SPSpeaker
But how would they know?
- JRJoe Rogan
... that Brock was juicing. I don't know.
- SPSpeaker
This is before random drug tests, I believe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. It was before.
- SPSpeaker
So that would ... I feel like that would fall on the state athletic commission.
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe it wasn't before 'cause he did get popped.
- SPSpeaker
You know, but before they-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it wasn't random. They weren't-
- SPSpeaker
No, no, no
- JRJoe Rogan
... able to just show up in camp.
- SPSpeaker
No, no. They'd-
- JRJoe Rogan
No
- SPSpeaker
... back in the day, you would get tested on fight night.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 32:12 – 35:48
Calf kicks revolution: why they work, compartment syndrome, and technical evolution
- SPSpeaker
Dude, we had, like, a huge rush of the calf kick. I saw it for, like, a year and a half, two years. Everybody was doing it. Now it's kind of fading away, I've noticed that.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is, uh, but not with him. It, it's not with elite guys, guys that are really good at it. It's like-
- SPSpeaker
It does so much damage, man, so quickly.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's crazy.
- SPSpeaker
And it's so much ... It's less commitment, so you're not giving ... You don't have to turn your hips over as much, so wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as easy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I remember your fight with Jim Miller.
- SPSpeaker
It's just a ... Oh, dude tore me up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That was-
- SPSpeaker
Tore me up
- JRJoe Rogan
... that was one of the first examples of calf kicks being really fucking dangerous.
- SPSpeaker
And I've never felt it before. And it, and I'm a southpaw, so to land good calf kicks, you'd have to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... fight another southpaw, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
And that doesn't happen too often, especially with one who's throwing those. So I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro. I was like-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
"I got a f- I got a flat tire. What is going on? What is this?"
- JRJoe Rogan
I know.
- SPSpeaker
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Isn't it crazy that it took that long for people to figure that out? Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early.
- SPSpeaker
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it wasn't that effective for some reason.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He was doing it, but it wasn't having the devastating damage.
- SPSpeaker
I'm trying to think of who's the first guy to really ... Edson Barboza would do it every now and then.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Trying to think of somebody who really brought it over.
- JRJoe Rogan
Bro, it's made its way into kickboxing now.
- SPSpeaker
I, it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause they were saying, like, the Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to calf kicks, and e- everybody was saying that, and I was like, "That doesn't make a lot of sense to me."
- 35:48 – 49:37
Recovery tech and training load: hyperbaric oxygen, wearables, and overtraining traps
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, Uriah, uh, was one of the first guys to implement, um, uh, b- going into, um, what, why can't I think of it? The fucking chamber, oxygen chamber. I have a-
- SPSpeaker
Hyperbaric
- JRJoe Rogan
... hyperbaric. What's wrong with me today? I'm, I'm making up fake words, can't come up with things that I know. But he was, uh, using the hyperbaric, like, exclusively to recover from that.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, and documenting it. And I was like-
- SPSpeaker
Yo
- JRJoe Rogan
... "Oh, that's interesting."
- SPSpeaker
A lot of good, uh, brain benefits for hyperbaric.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I don't, I don't have one. I've done it before, but it's never been, like, a routine thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's, you have to have access to it [sighs] before you can do it a lot.
- SPSpeaker
And also the tent. The tents, the zip-up tents at home.
- JRJoe Rogan
Not as strong.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- SPSpeaker
You need a solid-
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, you need, like, one of those propane tank ones, those big thick walled ones.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. The glass, like, it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes
- SPSpeaker
... you can really get high pressure in there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you gotta be careful in those things. You can't ... No sparks.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, dude, I saw a story that a kid was in one and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... you saw that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
That was a couple years ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
Horrible.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Horrible story. Yeah. Um, the, but hyperbaric is awesome for recovery. It's also, it lengthens ... There's a protocol that developed, uh-S- one of the universities in Israel developed it, where you do, uh, 60 sessions over 90 days, and it lengthens your telomeres that's commensurate with, I think it's, like, a 20-year difference in your biological age.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- 49:37 – 51:47
Aging, retirement, and the lure of ‘easier’ boxing camps (plus Zuffa Boxing politics)
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. That's something I would like to do, man, box.
- JRJoe Rogan
Still?
- SPSpeaker
I always wanted to have a couple before I've, you know... But I, I'm still under contract. Even though I'm retired, I still have a contract with the UFC, so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you think the UFC will let you out? Or they have Zuffa Boxing now.
- SPSpeaker
Dude, so they don't-- I, I, trust me, I already pitched it to them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you?
- SPSpeaker
Me and Nate Diaz, Zuffa Boxing, let's go.
- JRJoe Rogan
Let's go.
- SPSpeaker
170 whatever.
- JRJoe Rogan
What'd they say?
- SPSpeaker
Or 168, super middleweight, let's do it. They don't want any crossover.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- SPSpeaker
They, I think Zuffa wants to be taken as a serious-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do they hate money?
- SPSpeaker
They must hate money.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do they hate money?
- SPSpeaker
They hate money.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why do they hate money?
- SPSpeaker
Mm, I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
I-
- SPSpeaker
They, they wanna be taken by the boxing world serious, and I think if you open that door of a MMA guy fighting under Zuffa Boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl on the roster's gonna wanna do the same.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm. Interesting.
- SPSpeaker
It just becomes a mess, I think.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know about that.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah?
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't think it's a mess.
- SPSpeaker
I think there are some really fun MMA boxing matchups you can make.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck yes.
- SPSpeaker
Fuck yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? Especially when guys get older and, you know, you don't wanna go through the training camp with wrestling and leg kicks and all that shit.
- 51:47 – 1:03:35
Platforms and promotions: Power Slap, Muay Thai leagues, Amazon vs Netflix visibility
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I'm, I'm glad we're seeing more boxing, Zuffa boxing, and less Power Slap on my feed whenever I go to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... online stuff, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I'm not a big fan.
- SPSpeaker
I've never been to one, but man, it's just fucking...
- JRJoe Rogan
Not my, not my jam.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. When we f- when I fought my retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the Power Slap they had there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SPSpeaker
And he said it was awesome in person.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, sure.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's awesome to watch someone get slapped, but, like, I'm not interested. I watch it on my fucking phone every now and then. I'll see some of the sudden-
- SPSpeaker
I mean, the highlights are good enough. You see the knockouts-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... and the crazy stuff, but...
- JRJoe Rogan
It's great TikTok content.
- SPSpeaker
For sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, you watch someone get slapped-
- SPSpeaker
It's-
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they, they go forward, and their head hits the desk-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they fall backwards, but it's like, it's a concussion. You're watching concussions.
- SPSpeaker
And you can't, there's no defense.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
There's no, like, you can't flinch or-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy
- SPSpeaker
... you get, it's penalty if you do.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy. That don't make any sense to me.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't, I don't get it. But I think they've missed out on the opportunity to have a Muay Thai league. That's what I think.
- 1:03:35 – 1:17:09
Wild detour: Angola Prison boxing league and why it would be a great documentary
- SPSpeaker
Crazy you say that. In Angola prison in Louisiana, there's a boxing league. If you're on the boxing league and get accepted into it, you get more meals and stuff. So the same thing, these, these prisoners are, like, trying their best to stay on this boxing league. You get more meals, more time, more free time.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- SPSpeaker
They actually fight other prisons, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- SPSpeaker
I was thinking this would be a great documentary to come out with.
- JRJoe Rogan
That would be a great documentary.
- SPSpeaker
And it's CCTV to the other prisons, so other prisons can watch in their cells.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- SPSpeaker
They bus them to Angola, other prisons in Louisiana, they box.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- SPSpeaker
They put out a schedule every year. If you ever wanna go to one-
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- SPSpeaker
It's invite only, but I, I, I can-
- JRJoe Rogan
I'd rather watch at home.
- SPSpeaker
It's cr-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's awesome. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Bro, it feels, it feels illegal, dude. It feels illegal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it might not be legal in other states.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, it might not be legal in Louisiana. I might be getting in trouble for, for saying this.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs] Is anybody any good?
- SPSpeaker
Hell yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I think Bernard Hopkins-
- SPSpeaker
I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
... came out of jail.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, the guy, obviously Tyson beat him, but the Black Rhino was an Angola boxing prisoner who got out or pardoned to, to fight Mike Tyson.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. That's crazy. I did not know that.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
So do they have a program where they have coaches and...
- 1:17:09 – 1:27:53
Rulesets, arenas, and ‘dirty’ techniques: cages, ramps, grounded knees, oblique kicks, heel hooks
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's a real problem with the cage, and the problem is the wall. Like, the, the fence is an artificial structure that keeps you from being able to move. And I've always said this, that I, I think it should be an open mat. It should be a large mat. And you should, you should not-
- SPSpeaker
Like a wrestling mat?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, like a big m- wrestling mat. Like, think about a basketball game. Like, think about how much space is on a basketball court.
- SPSpeaker
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you still get 16,000 people in there to watch a basketball game.
- SPSpeaker
Guys would be, I th- I would think running, running around a lot of-
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, maybe you get penalty. Penalty for moving too much. Maybe you have red zones.
- SPSpeaker
Like Pride? Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You have a red zone.
- SPSpeaker
Yellow card or-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you have a, you have a center that you're supposed to stay in, and then you have a red zone outside of it, and then you have a black zone outside the red zone where you get points taken away.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You enter into the red zone too many times, you get a warning for the first time, another warning for the second time, third time you get a point taken away. So you could use it once or twice to evade-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- JRJoe Rogan
... but then you gotta go back into the area where you're supposed to fight.
- SPSpeaker
I think that would be, that would be cool. How big of a s- of an area are you talking?
- JRJoe Rogan
Basketball court.
- SPSpeaker
That's too big, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
That's too big.
- JRJoe Rogan
How about football? How about a football fucking field? [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
That's too big.
- JRJoe Rogan
Meet in the center.
- SPSpeaker
That's too big.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're doing that with no-rules fights.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I watch a lot of no-rules fights. They're horrible.
- SPSpeaker
The Russian, the Russian stuff?
- JRJoe Rogan
They're so scary because guys just mount guys and gouge their eyes out.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- 1:27:53 – 2:12:46
Life after fighting: identity shift, desk work, and the businesses (hot sauce + a new documentary)
- SPSpeaker
For sure. And that type of stuff is like, the last time I was on the show, what I was talking about, it's like a gift and a curse, man. It's like you have to be all in at something. Those kind of people who are built like that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... whether it's fighting or drinking or whether it's good or bad-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right
- SPSpeaker
... you're going all in. It's dangerous.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the problem, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The problem is, like we see with Conor, when they don't have the fighting, then they go all in with the other things.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Right. Fighting was always, for me, always pulled everything together, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
That's why, like, retiring is scary, man. Days are long. I have a lot of time. It's, I don't have to get ready for a fight. I don't, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
And you're still a young man, too. You still have a whole lot of life ahead of you.
- SPSpeaker
I'm 37, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, so it makes you think, like, "What do I do now? What do I do with my future? What do I do?" What do you wanna do?
- SPSpeaker
Dude, I kinda got like, for a f- a week or so, I wouldn't say depressed, but I kinda got into like a funk, like, "What the hell am I gonna do with my life?" Every day I would wake up for the last 20 years, "How can I be better fighter? How can I, what's new in fitness? How can I push myself? I wanna be the champion," and then boom, you lay the gloves down and you wake up and you're a fucking civilian. Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- SPSpeaker
... it feels crazy, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- SPSpeaker
It's like I'm relearning who I am. Like, I always knew fighting was just something I did, it wasn't who I was, but after 20 years of doing it, even though you know that and you think that, like it, it, fuck, I don't know who I am without fighting.
- JRJoe Rogan
How long did it take you before you felt-
- SPSpeaker
I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a lot of things.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
But like, fighting was a cloud in my mind that never went away for 20 years.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
And now I wake up and it's, it's gone. Like, what do, what do I do? I'm still trying to find out, Joe. I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you still get nervous when you would go to events? You know, that feeling that you get, like you, you feel like-
- SPSpeaker
When I competed?
- JRJoe Rogan
... you could be competing. No, no, no.
Episode duration: 2:42:28
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Transcript of episode gqhGi1-816U
