Matt Serra & Din Thomas on Joe Rogan: Why eye pokes persist

Joe Rogan 0:00 [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

Speaker 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day.

Din Thomas 0:10 [upbeat music] Hello, boys.

Joe Rogan 0:13 My man.

Din Thomas 0:13 Hey, what's up, brother?

Joe Rogan 0:14 Good to see you. [laughs]

Speaker 0:15 We're back in action.

Din Thomas 0:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 0:17 We're back. [laughs]

Speaker 0:18 We're back.

Joe Rogan 0:20 [laughs]

Speaker 0:20 We were just talking and I told Rallo-

Joe Rogan 0:22 I called to get on

Speaker 0:23 ... I told Rallo, "Save this for the air." 'Cause Rallo, years ago, shit, this had to be, like, at least 10 years ago.

Din Thomas 0:29 Oh, no, 20.

Speaker 0:30 20 years ago?

Din Thomas 0:30 That was like 2006, 2007.

Speaker 0:32 That's crazy.

Din Thomas 0:33 Yeah, dude.

Speaker 0:33 So 20 years ago, Rallo calls me up [laughs] and he says, "Tommy Lee wants to meet you. He wants to talk to you about something." I go, "Okay, sure." So we go to see his concert. That was when he was at Rock and Roll Supernova, the TV show.

Din Thomas 0:43 Yeah, the TV show, that's right.

Speaker 0:44 So he had a TV show and-

Din Thomas 0:45 It was at Long Beach.

Speaker 0:46 Right, right. It was a good show.

Din Thomas 0:47 You, you, you and Eddie came.

Speaker 0:48 Me and Eddie Bravo came. And then, uh, afterwards... First of all, Tommy Lee has the dopest green room. Like, he sets his green room up like a fucking after-hours party.

Din Thomas 0:57 Yeah, he has a mansion. [laughs]

Speaker 0:57 He's got, like, tapestries on the wall, and candles, and lights.

Din Thomas 1:01 Incense.

Speaker 1:01 Yeah, you walk in, you're like, "Damn." Like, he doesn't just-

Din Thomas 1:03 His DJ gear.

Speaker 1:04 Yeah, he doesn't just walk into a cold green room. Like, I'm lazy.

Joe Rogan 1:08 Right, you got a... Yeah.

Speaker 1:09 If I go on the road, I just g- "What, what's your green room? I'll go hang out in there."

Joe Rogan 1:12 Right.

Speaker 1:12 It's like, it doesn't... just walk. But he has it set up. Like, everywhere is, like, calm, and relaxing, and spiritual. And, uh, so I meet Tommy, and Tommy wants to fight Kid Rock in the UFC.

Joe Rogan 1:24 [laughs]

Din Thomas 1:24 [laughs] This-

Joe Rogan 1:25 [laughs] Wow.

Speaker 1:25 This was true. This was-

Joe Rogan 1:26 What makes people think they can do this?

Din Thomas 1:28 It's what Pam Anderson's heart.

Speaker 1:29 Yeah, well.

Din Thomas 1:30 No, wait. This is how it started.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Is that when everyone-

Speaker 1:31 Pam Anderson

Din Thomas 1:31 This is kinda how it started.

Speaker 1:33 That was that way with Pam.

Din Thomas 1:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35 Yeah.

Speaker 1:35 Like, you know, they both were married to her, so [clears throat] Tommy and her are always gonna be connected 'cause of the kids. So she had split up with Kid Rock, and Kid Rock was emailing her, texting her, I guess, you know, still trying to get with her. Tommy is with her, not together, but, you know, they were together that day. And he s- she asks him, you know, "You're friends with him. Can you call him and tell him to stop calling me and shit?" And Tommy's like, "I don't wanna get in the middle of that shit."

Din Thomas 2:05 Oh, boy.

Speaker 2:06 And she's like, you know, "If y- you know, please." So he winds up hitting, you know, him up, and like, "Look, dude, you know, I don't really wanna make this call," blah, blah, blah. Of course, Kid Rock took the heat. "Fuck you," you know, blah, blah. So they're fucking each other back and forth. Goes away. [clears throat] Now, there was some MTV Awards thing.

Din Thomas 2:26 Okay.

Speaker 2:27 And, uh, uh, actually, let me back up first. We were in Vegas for a New Year's thing, and there was th- this rumor that Kid Rock was supposed to come with his bodyguard, and, like- and come to Tommy's room and attack him.

Joe Rogan 2:39 Oh.

Speaker 2:40 So me, my man Kimo, who you know as well, um, you know, we're sleeping in Tommy's room hoping they show up, and, uh, of course, they go to a different room. They do go to a room, kick a door in. I think totally for-

Joe Rogan 2:53 Oh, so they actually went looking for him for real?

Speaker 2:56 Yeah, and I don't think they went looking for him.

Joe Rogan 2:57 So you think they-

Speaker 2:57 I think it was a big publicity stunt

Joe Rogan 2:58 ... busted open, yeah, yeah.

Din Thomas 2:59 Fucking busted up the wrong room.

Speaker 2:59 They sign some autographs and, and they keep it moving. So I'm saying to Tommy, I go, "Yo, dude." I go, "Fuck him." I go, "You should fight him on pay-per-view. Imagine all the money that would make."

Joe Rogan 3:11 [laughs]

Din Thomas 3:12 [laughs]

Speaker 3:12 I go, "I'll fight his fucking security guy. Like, we'll fucking make a whole thing of it." And he goes, "Man, that's brilliant."

Joe Rogan 3:18 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3:18 And so I go, uh, I go, "You know, I'm telling you," I said, "You should do... " Y- y- I said, "Look, either you fight him and you beat him up, or he punks out and you win either way." And he's like, he's like, [laughs] "Yeah, yeah, I like this." So he talks to his management. Of course, it just goes by the wayside. While they're having some MTV Awards shit, security's not allowed on the floor there. They had their own, like, cas- you know, c- it was in this casino. They have security for it. While he's sitting in there with Pam, Kid Rock, like, comes up kinda behind him and pokes him, and Tommy sees him, and he goes to stand up, and Kid Rock suckers him there.

Din Thomas 3:56 Oh, he hit him.

Speaker 3:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:57 What?

Din Thomas 3:57 Oh.

Speaker 3:57 And I'm home. My phone is getting blown the fuck up. Like, "What's happened with Tommy? What happened with Tommy?" I'm like, "I don't fucking know. Like, I'm not with him right now." And, uh, I get a call, I swear, like 30 minutes later, and it's Tommy, and he's going, "Fuck him." He goes, "I'm done with that motherfucker. I wanna fight him. I'm gonna fucking fight him now." I go... He goes, "I want you to train me." I go-

Joe Rogan 4:18 [laughs]

Speaker 4:18 He goes, "I'm gonna move you out." I go, "No.

Joe Rogan 4:20 [laughs]

Din Thomas 4:21 [laughs]

Speaker 4:21 You're moving to me." I go-

Joe Rogan 4:23 [laughs]

Speaker 4:23 ... "We're not gonna be out here with all your little fucking ass-kissers." I said-

Din Thomas 4:27 Yeah

Speaker 4:27 ... "If you're gonna do it, you're really gonna do it."

Din Thomas 4:29 Was he working out at all at the time?

Speaker 4:30 No. [laughs] So, um, you know, on- the only working out he does is on the drums, which he does murder, so, um-

Joe Rogan 4:36 That is a little bit of arm conditioning.

Din Thomas 4:37 It is, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4:38 Yeah, definitely.

Din Thomas 4:38 That's like a little punch, yeah.

Speaker 4:39 Definitely.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Like speed bag work.

Din Thomas 4:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4:40 And I can show you a picture of him with a choke on me, and it's, uh, legit. Like, he, he did train with Horian, and he... I told you guys, he trained some with Billy Blanks, so-

Joe Rogan 4:49 [laughs]

Din Thomas 4:50 The Tai Bo guy.

Joe Rogan 4:50 Does that count, though?

Speaker 4:51 Yeah, yeah.

Din Thomas 4:51 Billy Blanks was... I've talked about this on the podcast.

Speaker 4:54 He's for real, right?

Din Thomas 4:55 He was a bad motherfucker in his day.

Joe Rogan 4:56 He was a bad motherfucker though, yeah, okay.

Din Thomas 4:57 He was a, one of those, like, w- Raymond Daniels-type karate-

Speaker 5:00 Really

Din Thomas 5:00 ... point fighting characters.

Joe Rogan 5:01 Yeah, okay.

Speaker 5:01 He's a Tai-

Din Thomas 5:01 In the early days, so.

Joe Rogan 5:02 He's a Tai Bo guy.

Speaker 5:03 Yeah, so-

Din Thomas 5:03 He's a Tai Bo guy, but we'll get to that.

Speaker 5:05 All right, yeah, so I, I-

Din Thomas 5:06 We'll get to that

Speaker 5:07 ... I bring him-

Din Thomas 5:07 Props to Billy Blanks

Speaker 5:08 ... I bring him in, and, uh, and I, he, I told him, I said, "Look, we're, when we're going to, uh, Long Beach," I said, "I know Rogan. I can have him come in, and you can tell him your idea."

Joe Rogan 5:17 [laughs]

Speaker 5:17 And he, and he goes, "All right, all right." So I bring Joe and Eddie, they meet him. You know, he tells Joe he wants to fight him. Literally, and Tommy said his m- uh, sanctuary was his management company at the time. I don't know if he still is or not. So they call Kid Rock's people, supposedly, and offer this fucking fight on pay-per-view, and Kid Rock's people wound up calling back and basically turning it down, saying whoever loses is ruined for, you know, for life, I guess, 'cause looking like a bitch, 'cause they both had the rock and roll-

Joe Rogan 5:51 That's true, yeah

Speaker 5:51 ... tough guy, you know, image thing.

Joe Rogan 5:53 Yeah.

Speaker 5:54 So, uh, so that was-

Din Thomas 5:55 That's literally... He said that in-

Speaker 5:56 That's-

Din Thomas 5:56 Did he say that in print?

Speaker 5:57 That's literally how it, how it stopped.

Din Thomas 5:59 Was that in print?

Speaker 6:00 What's that?

Din Thomas 6:00 Whoever, whoever loses this is ruined, or was that a phone call?

Speaker 6:02 Oh, no, no, no, that was the-

Joe Rogan 6:03 [laughs]

Din Thomas 6:04 [laughs]

Speaker 6:04 That was the fu-

Joe Rogan 6:05 [laughs]

Speaker 6:05 That was, that was supposedly the response from Kid Rock's management to Tommy's management.

Din Thomas 6:10 That is correct. He would be correct.

Speaker 6:12 You know.

Joe Rogan 6:12 Yeah, but if, but if it's a, a good fight-

Din Thomas 6:15 Like a Stephan Bonnar and Forrest Griffin

Joe Rogan 6:16 Oh my God.

Din Thomas 6:17 And-

Joe Rogan 6:17 Well, that would be different. Then they'd both win

Din Thomas 6:19 That would be revolutionary.

Joe Rogan 6:20 Like that-

Din Thomas 6:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 6:21 ... I, I kinda forget who won that fight, Stephan Bonnar, Forrest Griffin.

Din Thomas 6:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:25 Right?

Din Thomas 6:25 Forrest won that fight.

Joe Rogan 6:25 I know Forrest won it.

Din Thomas 6:26 Forrest won.

Joe Rogan 6:26 But I kinda forget-

Din Thomas 6:28 Yeah

Joe Rogan 6:28 ... because the fight was-

Din Thomas 6:28 It was so good

Joe Rogan 6:29 Yeah, it was amazing

6:29 ... it was, uh, that was one of the most-

6:31 It really was

6:31 ... toss-up fights of all time.

Din Thomas 6:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:32 Like, who fucking knows who won that fight?

6:34 And Dana, Dana did the right thing. He contracted both of them.

6:36 It was ama-

6:36 You know?

6:36 We actually talked about it in the Octagon right before he did it.

6:39 Wow.

Din Thomas 6:39 Did you really?

Joe Rogan 6:40 Yeah.

Din Thomas 6:40 Like-

Joe Rogan 6:40 I was like, "He should give both these motherfuckers a bonus."

Din Thomas 6:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Yeah.

6:43 He's like, "We're gonna do that."

Din Thomas 6:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:44 I'm like, "Fuck yeah." It was amazing.

Din Thomas 6:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:46 Do you think, uh, if it wasn't for The Ultimate Fighter it would've died out?

6:50 Who knows, man? But it was like lightning in a bottle.

Din Thomas 6:53 Psh.

Joe Rogan 6:53 Because there was another good fight before that. Diego Sanchez fucked Kenny Florian up, man. It was-

Din Thomas 6:57 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:58 That was, that was a one-way beating. [laughs]

Din Thomas 7:01 Yeah. That was, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:01 But that was Diego Sanchez coming up.

Din Thomas 7:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:03 Like, people got to see Diego fight too many fights. They got to see the later fights. They forgot what a monster Diego was-

Din Thomas 7:09 Yeah, he was tough

Joe Rogan 7:09 ... in his prime. He w-

7:10 And if you wanna-

7:11 Cardio animal

Din Thomas 7:12 Yeah

Joe Rogan 7:12 ... question his grappling, I mean, Marcelo got him, but, you know, he, he hung-

7:16 It was a scramble

7:16 ... with one of the best of all time.

7:17 Yeah, he's-

Din Thomas 7:17 You know?

Joe Rogan 7:17 Just at ADCC.

7:18 Yeah.

Din Thomas 7:19 Yeah. Is he doing okay?

Joe Rogan 7:19 Diego was a fucking... I don't know.

Din Thomas 7:22 He's been a r-

Joe Rogan 7:22 Yeah, yeah.

Din Thomas 7:22 Listen, man. You can only get hit so many times.

Joe Rogan 7:25 Agreed. And he was at halfway gone before taking all those shots.

7:28 Well, he was always, like, this open-minded, weird thinker

7:31 Very eccentric guy. Yeah

7:31 Remember we had that guy that was training him that you had a little bit of a-

Din Thomas 7:33 Yeah

Joe Rogan 7:34 ... disagreement with.

Din Thomas 7:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:35 What about that loser?

7:36 Yeah.

Din Thomas 7:37 Joshua Fabia.

Joe Rogan 7:37 Yeah, don't mention his name.

Din Thomas 7:39 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 7:39 Cut that part out. [laughs]

Din Thomas 7:41 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 7:41 That guy was demented, dude.

7:43 Well, he had Diego hanging upside down. He was like smashing his head.

7:45 Punching him in his face. [laughs]

7:47 Yeah.

Din Thomas 7:47 Yeah, what the hell. Yeah

Joe Rogan 7:47 ... the video's insane. The video's insane. But Diego was, like, super, super open-minded. Like, he was willing to believe in magic. He was will-

Din Thomas 7:56 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:56 You know what I'm saying? Like, he believed in himself so much that Diego was like... And he was also, like, doing weird stuff. Like, he would chew meat and, and spit it out. He would just chew it down, like, get all the juices from it, and then spit whatever's left out. He wouldn't swallow the meat.

Din Thomas 8:11 But he was fun to watch. He didn't come out and be like, "Yes."

Joe Rogan 8:14 He was a fucking animal.

8:14 He was a savage. He was a savage.

Din Thomas 8:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 8:16 He was a fucking animal.

Din Thomas 8:17 Do it.

Joe Rogan 8:17 Steve Maxwell trained him for, uh, the fight with BJ Penn and got him in insane shape. But unfortunately, that was the fight where BJ started... That was when BJ was training with the Marinoviches.

8:29 He was leaping out of pools.

8:31 B- BJ was unstoppable back then.

Din Thomas 8:32 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:33 There was a, there was a time where I would say watch BJ in his prime. I'll put that dude up against anybody.

Din Thomas 8:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:38 BJ in his prime was a-

Din Thomas 8:39 There's no doubt. I always say he's the best four, 55er of all time.

Joe Rogan 8:42 He was a wolverine.

Din Thomas 8:42 Like, in that win- in that window, right?

Joe Rogan 8:44 Yeah.

Din Thomas 8:44 In that window.

Joe Rogan 8:45 We fought him in his prime.

Din Thomas 8:45 When he beat Matt Hughes.

Joe Rogan 8:47 Yeah, he was a human wolverine.

Din Thomas 8:49 Yeah, yeah. But you did a lot better with him than I did.

Joe Rogan 8:52 Well, I didn't wanna bring that up. [laughs]

Din Thomas 8:53 I thought, I, I personally thought-

Joe Rogan 8:55 You did

8:55 ... I thought Matt won the fight

8:56 ... you had elite world championship caliber jiu-jitsu.

Din Thomas 8:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:59 You know what I mean? And a guy like him relies on jiu-jitsu a lot, you know? And, but j- BJ was just, uh, w- the, I always... There's two fights, the Kenny Flor- Uh, not, not, um, I'm sorry, Sean Sherk fight.

Din Thomas 9:10 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 9:10 The Sean Sherk fight was-

9:11 He murdered him

9:12 ... prime BJ.

Din Thomas 9:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:13 Prime BJ.

Din Thomas 9:14 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:14 And then the Diego Sanchez.

9:15 What about Karo, what about Karo Parisyan?

Din Thomas 9:16 What about, uh, Joe Stevenson?

Joe Rogan 9:17 That's another one, too.

Din Thomas 9:18 Joe Stevenson, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:18 But Diego was, like, more-

9:20 He wrecked Parisyan

9:20 ... highly ranked than Joe.

9:21 Remember?

Din Thomas 9:21 Oh.

Joe Rogan 9:22 Yeah, he wrecked Karo Parisyan.

9:23 Well, I mean, he was a beast. Matt, look what he did to Matt Hughes when he took the title.

Din Thomas 9:26 Yeah. Yeah, he was a beast.

Joe Rogan 9:27 You know? Matt Hughes was just like, "You're coming up to my weight class?"

Din Thomas 9:29 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:30 Yeah.

9:30 You know, that type of thing. And tough.

9:32 He was a wolverine.

Din Thomas 9:33 Yeah, he was. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:33 The dude would fight people at 2... He fought Lyoto Machida at 200 pounds.

Din Thomas 9:37 I remember that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:37 That's crazy.

Din Thomas 9:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:38 He was a wolverine.

Din Thomas 9:39 And he, he did good.

Joe Rogan 9:40 There's no doubt about that.

9:40 Fucking animal.

Din Thomas 9:41 No.

Joe Rogan 9:41 And did real good.

Din Thomas 9:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:42 Yeah, competitive.

9:42 Scary on the feet.

Din Thomas 9:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:44 A, a natural 55er who fought as low as 45. Remember?

Din Thomas 9:48 Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, yep.

Joe Rogan 9:48 He went down to 45 for a while. Bro, BJ was a monster in his prime.

9:52 Yeah. And he was well-rounded, too, before guys were super well-rounded.

Din Thomas 9:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:56 Like, he threw hands well.

9:57 And if he just had the will-

10:00 Sick takedown defense

10:00 ... to go through those Marinovich camps every fight, he would've been unstoppable.

10:05 Yeah.

10:05 He just, BJ would, you know, he would just lose his focus a little bit. I watched a YouTube documentary about, like, the rise and trajectory and then the later years. It was really well done, but it was all just talking about how the, there's this prime BJ, and that's when he was training with the Marinoviches, and incredible conditioning, and he could just f- go fight and not worry about his conditioning.

Din Thomas 10:25 Do you think he w- it wasn't laziness, right? What, what do you think it was?

Joe Rogan 10:29 Well, a lot of friends, a lot of partying.

Din Thomas 10:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:30 He's the king of the island.

Din Thomas 10:32 For sure.

Joe Rogan 10:32 He's basically the king of Hawaii.

10:33 Thousands of fans.

Din Thomas 10:33 For sure.

Joe Rogan 10:34 I think BJ Penn was the king.

Din Thomas 10:36 Yeah, for sure, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:36 Everywhere he would go, people would be like, "It's BJ." I mean, he was the king in Vegas, man. He w- in, in those prime years when he was the champ, he was a huge star.

10:44 But-

10:44 So I'm sure he's a huge star in Hilo. He's probably hanging out with the boys all the time, having a good time.

Din Thomas 10:49 Plus, his family, like, had influence there, right? They had, like, money and-

Joe Rogan 10:52 Like, they had some money

Din Thomas 10:53 ... yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:53 He didn't come from poverty.

Din Thomas 10:54 Oh.

Joe Rogan 10:54 But it's just, like, the, it just was real hard to maintain those kind of camps.

Din Thomas 10:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:59 Those camps are insane.

Din Thomas 11:00 Yeah, true.

Joe Rogan 11:00 He was also super, super talented.

Din Thomas 11:02 Super talented.

Joe Rogan 11:02 And so it's like he didn't have to work as hard to still beat up people, like, in practice and everything like that.

11:07 It, it definitely came easy. His flexibility and leg dexterity was insane.

Din Thomas 11:10 Oh my goodness.

Joe Rogan 11:11 Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Din Thomas 11:12 So I re- I remember when I fought him and we were doing a rules meeting. This is the time where, like, we could ask questions, like they did everybody in the rules meeting. And I'm in the rules meeting, and Frank Shamrock was in his corner. And Frank's like, "Are we allowed to, in guard, kick him in the head from..." I'm like, "What the, how the hell?" Like, he was talking about his flexibility just wrapping around the back of my head and kicking me in the head from there. And I was like, "What the hell? Is this guy insane?"

Joe Rogan 11:37 Right.

Din Thomas 11:37 I was like, "How the hell is he gonna be able to kick me in the head from there?"

Joe Rogan 11:40 Mm.

Din Thomas 11:40 But apparently BJ had that flexibility to be able to do that.

Joe Rogan 11:44 He could put his feet behind his head.

11:45 He could do, he could do double lotus without using his hands.

Din Thomas 11:48 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 11:49 So like, like sit back and just fucking completely crossbut lotus.

Din Thomas 11:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:53 Like, interlocked with no hands.

Din Thomas 11:56 That's insane.

Joe Rogan 11:57 It's nuts.

Din Thomas 11:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:58 His flexibility is bananas.

Din Thomas 11:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:59 And he worked on it. It wasn't just, like, a natural gift. But how smart was he to figure out if you could use your legs like you could use your arms, they're so much fucking stronger.

Din Thomas 12:08 Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt.

Joe Rogan 12:09 You know what I mean?

Din Thomas 12:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:10 Oh, look at this.

Din Thomas 12:10 There he is.

Joe Rogan 12:11 That's nuts, man. [laughs]

12:13 Yeah, insane.

12:13 [laughs] He can put his own fucking leg behind his head with no hands. That's crazy flexibility.

Din Thomas 12:20 Ah.

Joe Rogan 12:21 I'd say he was gonna kick you while you were north-south.

Din Thomas 12:23 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 12:24 [laughs]

Din Thomas 12:24 I'm like, "Is that allowed? He gonna do that."

Joe Rogan 12:26 That is nuts. But if... Is that legal? No.

Din Thomas 12:28 Nah, nah.

Joe Rogan 12:29 There's a lot of goofy rules, right? Like, that's, there's a... I don't think it would be cool to stomp people in the head and soccer kick them.

Din Thomas 12:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:37 But at least knees to the head-

Din Thomas 12:39 Knees to the head should be okay

Joe Rogan 12:40 ... I agree with that.

Din Thomas 12:41 I agree with that.

12:41 For sure

Joe Rogan 12:41 Because if you're shooting on a single, and you're holding onto it, and your head's right there, that's a stupid place to be in real life.

Din Thomas 12:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:48 Right?

Din Thomas 12:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:49 Let's just, real life, a real fight, why wouldn't the guy knee you in the head? You're grabbing his knee. If he's, you're, you're all him right here, all he has to do is knee you in the face, and he can't do it-

Din Thomas 12:58 Yeah

Joe Rogan 12:58 ... because you're on your knees.

Din Thomas 13:00 And let's be fair, like, a knee when somebody's on their feet is worse than that.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Yes.

Din Thomas 13:05 You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not as bad.

13:06 Oh, yeah, there's way more behind it.

13:07 Yeah, that's not as like-

Joe Rogan 13:08 Yeah

Din Thomas 13:08 ... if, if, if you're on the floor and I knee you in the head, that's still not as bad as if me just kneeing you right in the face.

Joe Rogan 13:14 Yes.

Din Thomas 13:14 With, on, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:15 Well, especially if you're like the Mi- Michael Venom Page fight, the one with the cyborg knees.

Din Thomas 13:20 Oh.

13:20 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:21 Cyborg knees.

Din Thomas 13:22 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 13:22 That's the, the... If you ever wanna know, like, what's the most destructive strike in MMA-

Din Thomas 13:26 Yeah

Joe Rogan 13:27 ... the most amount of power you can generate has gotta be a knee.

Din Thomas 13:30 A flying knee.

Joe Rogan 13:31 While a guy's coming in.

Din Thomas 13:32 When a guy's, like, shooting in on you.

Joe Rogan 13:33 Long-

Din Thomas 13:33 The only thing I'm, I'm not a fan of is the, the ki- the jab, fuck, the kick to the knee.

Joe Rogan 13:38 I agree.

Din Thomas 13:38 Oh, the oblique kick?

13:39 I'm not a fan of that.

13:40 Oblique kick?

Joe Rogan 13:40 I agree.

Din Thomas 13:40 Like, yeah, like, uh-

Joe Rogan 13:41 Side kicks to the knee

Din Thomas 13:41 ... you know, you saw what happened-

13:43 Yeah

13:43 ... if you, if you hit it right when Khalil did it.

13:45 Tito's, uh-

Joe Rogan 13:46 Modestas

Din Thomas 13:47 ... Modestas, yeah, Modestas Bukauskas.

Joe Rogan 13:48 Horrible

Din Thomas 13:48 But, like, my, my opinion there is it's just something that if you hit it right, it's, uh, it, it's auto- an injury's coming and, and not a good one. You can't tap. It's not like a knee bar or something.

Joe Rogan 13:57 Exactly.

Din Thomas 13:57 So I kinda think if you can't kick a guy in the side of the knee for that reason, why should you be able to fucking kick him square to it?

Joe Rogan 14:03 If you can kick in the knees, you should be able to kick in the nuts.

Din Thomas 14:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:07 [laughs]

Din Thomas 14:07 [laughs]

14:07 I'm gonna be real. I, I need... Like, what are we doing here?

14:11 Yeah. Yeah.

14:11 What are we doing here? We're pretending?

14:12 Right.

14:12 Like, wear a cup and I can kick you in the nuts.

14:14 Right.

14:15 There's some good cups out there.

Joe Rogan 14:16 I'll just get a steel one.

Din Thomas 14:17 It's crazy. Like, why, why do we have s-

14:19 You know-

14:19 ... weird rules like that?

14:20 Yeah, it's crazy because, like, every time somebody gets kicked in the nuts, you say it. You always say, "Why don't you get a steel cup?"

14:26 Yeah.

14:26 The fact that no one has a steel cup to me-

Joe Rogan 14:29 It's-

Din Thomas 14:29 ... after all this time, is unbelievable

Joe Rogan 14:30 ... ultimate cheap code. And it's ultimate cheap code-

Din Thomas 14:32 Yeah, that's interesting

Joe Rogan 14:32 ... in, in guard, in, in grappling too.

Din Thomas 14:35 If it was somebody-

Joe Rogan 14:36 Yeah, I got your back

Din Thomas 14:36 ... arm locked with that thing on.

Joe Rogan 14:37 Yeah. [laughs]

Din Thomas 14:38 Yeah.

14:38 Do you guys remember Amir Remro- Renavardi?

Joe Rogan 14:40 Yeah, yeah.

Din Thomas 14:40 A b-

Joe Rogan 14:41 That's a long time ago.

Din Thomas 14:42 Yeah, a long time ago. I trained with him at, uh, Legends, and he mounted me, and he put his cup in my solar plexus.

Joe Rogan 14:49 [laughs]

Din Thomas 14:49 Like, I was ready to tap from his dick.

14:51 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:52 [laughs]

Din Thomas 14:52 You know how humbling that is?

Joe Rogan 14:53 All right, imagine, imagine Matt Serra's 265 doing that to you.

Din Thomas 14:57 Ah! [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:57 You know what I mean? And I always wore a cup-

Din Thomas 14:59 100% cracked ribs

Joe Rogan 14:59 ... when I trained, you know?

Din Thomas 15:01 And it's also-

Joe Rogan 15:01 Guys would tap. Fuck that

Din Thomas 15:02 ... as a lever for an armbar.

15:03 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 15:04 Exactly.

Din Thomas 15:04 'Cause it's like a rock.

15:05 A knee bar or anything.

15:06 You got a rock there.

15:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:06 How you gonna slide your elbow past that?

Din Thomas 15:08 You know what's a weird fucking look? When the guys wear the whole spandex, and they have that steel cup, so they got like a big fucking dick in their fucking cup.

Joe Rogan 15:15 The Shony Carter cup.

Din Thomas 15:16 Yeah, it's funny. [laughs]

15:17 That's a Yoel Romero moment right there.

Joe Rogan 15:18 You remember, you remember that Shony Carter cup? I think Eddie fucking talked about it for the entire fight. It was a King of the Cage fight, and Shony was fighting, and he had a giant cup on.

Din Thomas 15:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 15:27 And I swear Eddie just commentated about the size of the cup. It was hilarious.

Din Thomas 15:32 Bro, in the taekwondo days, you, they had ones that you'd put on over your pants. So you'd put, you'd have your gi pants on, and then you'd put these ones on over it. And it had, like, this big strap. It'd go right up to your taint.

Joe Rogan 15:43 Ugh, really?

Din Thomas 15:44 Like, right literally to your asshole, and then go all the way up like this, and you would strap it in. But it was way better. It was way better, 'cause you had more-

Joe Rogan 15:50 Oh, is it like a boxing cup?

Din Thomas 15:52 No, it was a tae- it was just for taekwondo. It was just literally designed to wear outside of the-

Joe Rogan 15:56 So you could kick with it, yeah.

Din Thomas 15:57 And that's when I realized, like, oh, you can never wear regular cups. Like, regular cups move too much.

Joe Rogan 16:01 [laughs]

Din Thomas 16:01 It's just sitting there.

Joe Rogan 16:03 Right.

Din Thomas 16:03 And sometimes your nut gets caught between the cup and your leg when you get hit there.

16:08 That's-

16:08 And it's way worse

16:09 ... and I think maybe the UFC should make that mandatory.

16:12 100%.

16:13 Like, why would-

16:13 If you have to wear a mouthpiece-

16:15 Yeah

16:15 ... why don't you wear compression shorts?

16:16 Yeah, for sure.

16:16 Wear those, like, the Diamond MMA ones.

Joe Rogan 16:19 That's-

Din Thomas 16:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 16:19 ... that's a cup I have. I like that thing.

Din Thomas 16:20 Legit.

Joe Rogan 16:21 Yeah.

Din Thomas 16:21 Legit. And if you don't wanna wear steel, that's fine.

Joe Rogan 16:23 Right.

Din Thomas 16:23 You don't wanna have dental floss up your asshole.

Joe Rogan 16:25 Right, right. [laughs]

Din Thomas 16:25 You just have to tie it on.

16:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 16:27 It's uncomfortable, but that's... I would think if I was advising someone, I'd say, "Get a fucking steel cup before they outlaw it." 'Cause they should've outlawed it a long time ago.

Din Thomas 16:37 You should have, you should, you should have to wear that, though. I mean, it would, it would eliminate all the nut shots.

Joe Rogan 16:41 If you're smart, if you're smart, you would wear a steel cup 100%. So when he kicks you in the nuts, it'll hurt them more than it hurts you. Like, it protects you from everything.

Din Thomas 16:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:50 It's uncomfortable. That's all it is, just uncomfortable. So what?

Din Thomas 16:53 Well, I mean-

Joe Rogan 16:54 So is fighting.

Din Thomas 16:55 Yeah, yeah, so is fighting. So is getting kicked in the nuts.

Joe Rogan 16:57 Yeah.

Din Thomas 16:57 Yeah.

16:57 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 16:58 Dude, I can't believe it's legal.

Din Thomas 17:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:00 I really d- I c- it's like one of the... How do you have steel in there?

Din Thomas 17:03 [laughs]

17:03 Who, but who says that?

Joe Rogan 17:04 You have steel.

Din Thomas 17:05 I don't think anybody has a steel cup.

Joe Rogan 17:06 A bunch of guys do.

Din Thomas 17:07 Do they?

Joe Rogan 17:07 Yeah, DC wore it every fight he had.

Din Thomas 17:09 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 17:10 Yeah. Dude, it's, you, imagine a guy diving on a double, and you hip into him.

Din Thomas 17:16 Ooh, man.

Joe Rogan 17:17 You're slamming his face with your dick.

Din Thomas 17:19 [laughs]

17:19 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 17:19 Your dick is covered in metal. Your dick's covered in metal.

Din Thomas 17:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:23 And that's legal.

Din Thomas 17:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:24 You have to have pads on your knuckles.

Din Thomas 17:26 Yeah. Right?

Joe Rogan 17:26 You have to have pads on your knuckles, and you got an armor plate over your cock.

Din Thomas 17:31 Yeah, I would, I would definitely wear that if I was fighting.

Joe Rogan 17:34 [laughs]

Din Thomas 17:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:34 I'm selling them.

Din Thomas 17:35 I know. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 17:36 I'm gonna start selling them on my website.

Din Thomas 17:39 Sure. [laughs]

17:40 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 17:40 Because it's like, there's no way that should be legal.

Din Thomas 17:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:43 Like, how is that legal?

Din Thomas 17:45 I don't know. I didn't-

Joe Rogan 17:45 It's fucking metal.

Din Thomas 17:47 Oh, man, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:47 You're bringing metal into the equation. A foot can hit metal, a knee can hit metal.

Din Thomas 17:51 And you can do that, and no one, the fact that no one does it.

Joe Rogan 17:55 It's not... Well, a few guys do it. We were talking about different guys who've done it, that, that are currently doing it. And I know DC did it, but there's a few guys who still do it, and we were talking about it on one of the broadcasts. I don't remember which guys he was pointing out, but there's a few guys.

Din Thomas 18:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:08 Kenny Florian always wore a steel cup.

Din Thomas 18:10 But the fact that not everyone does it is-

Joe Rogan 18:12 Frankie Edgar from Delagrade.

Din Thomas 18:13 Yeah, for sure.

18:13 Delagrade for sure.

Joe Rogan 18:14 Delagrade, hey, 100%.

Din Thomas 18:15 Yeah.

18:16 Damn.

Joe Rogan 18:16 Yeah.

Din Thomas 18:17 That's fucking hilarious.

Joe Rogan 18:18 You ever hear when Delagrade starts talking Thai?

Matt Serra 18:21 No, I never heard that

Joe Rogan 18:22 He speaks fluent Thai.

Matt Serra 18:23 Does he really?

Joe Rogan 18:23 He's got that, he's like a guinea from-

Matt Serra 18:26 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 18:26 ... from, from Boston

Matt Serra 18:27 Boston, yeah

Joe Rogan 18:28 When, when he talks, he can talk to Thai people. It freaks them out.

Matt Serra 18:32 Really?

Joe Rogan 18:32 Oh, yeah, man.

Matt Serra 18:33 Yeah.

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Matt Serra 19:47 Well, he's my man. I, I go to Boston to stay with him.

Joe Rogan 19:50 Oh, I love that dude.

Matt Serra 19:50 Yeah, yeah. And his, his wife always cooks for me.

Joe Rogan 19:52 I love that dude.

Matt Serra 19:52 What a great bunch of people.

Joe Rogan 19:54 He's a trooper on the, on the Ultimate Fighter.

19:54 He's a maniac.

19:55 I love that dude.

Matt Serra 19:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:56 On the Ultimate Fighter IV, we didn't have assigned coaches, and he would just work with us, like, any time we needed him.

Matt Serra 20:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:02 You know what I mean? He was great.

Matt Serra 20:03 He's crazy.

Joe Rogan 20:03 And he would let us tackle him and fucking mount him and fu- You know what I mean?

Matt Serra 20:07 Yeah, he was awesome.

Joe Rogan 20:07 'Cause he would jiu-jitsu as well. Yeah, he's great, Mark. He's a good dude.

Matt Serra 20:10 He's a really good coach, too.

Joe Rogan 20:11 Yeah.

Matt Serra 20:11 You know who, who was really impressive working with him was Kevin James. You know, Kevin James, you know, you think of him as the King of Queens.

Joe Rogan 20:19 Yeah.

Matt Serra 20:19 He worked with Mark a lot.

Joe Rogan 20:20 Mm-hmm.

Matt Serra 20:20 And Kevin's been my friend for years. I, but I really hadn't seen him hit pads. I saw him hit, hit pads with Delagrotte. I was like, "What the fuck, dude?"

Joe Rogan 20:28 Mm.

Matt Serra 20:28 I'm like, "That's good." Like, "This looks good."

Joe Rogan 20:30 Nice.

Matt Serra 20:30 And he, he's like-

Joe Rogan 20:31 Mark will make you look good. Mark will make you look good.

Matt Serra 20:33 Mark's a good fucking coach, man.

Joe Rogan 20:34 Yeah, for sure.

Matt Serra 20:34 He's a really solid coach.

Joe Rogan 20:36 Gave Longo a black eye.

Matt Serra 20:38 Did he? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 20:38 Longo was, he sparred one time with Longo, uh, Kevin James.

Matt Serra 20:40 Did he really?

Joe Rogan 20:41 Longo was walking around like fucking Petey from Little Rascals. [laughs]

Matt Serra 20:43 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 20:44 Kevin's a de- he's a deceptively fast dude.

20:47 Yeah, he's athletic, you know, for a big dude.

Matt Serra 20:49 Well, he was... When I first met him, he was jacked. Like, he was, like, he wasn't-

Joe Rogan 20:53 Nice

Matt Serra 20:53 ... as big as he got at one point in time, but he's always kind of seesawed back and forth, but he was a karate guy. He was always doing karate when he was younger.

Joe Rogan 21:00 Yeah, he's super athletic.

Matt Serra 21:01 There he is.

Joe Rogan 21:02 It doesn't look as good there.

Matt Serra 21:03 Kind of looks like [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:04 [laughs]

Matt Serra 21:04 Yeah, it looks like Manny Oops.

Joe Rogan 21:05 [laughs]

Matt Serra 21:05 He looked a little...

Joe Rogan 21:06 I think that's when he was just getting into it, honestly.

Matt Serra 21:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:09 But he had, he was, he had Delagrotte staying with him a while, and Delagrotte was training him.

Matt Serra 21:13 Yeah, I saw him in Kill Cliff just, like, blending in with the guys. Like, he wasn't, like, standing out. He was just at Kill Cliff-

Joe Rogan 21:19 Just working out?

Matt Serra 21:20 ... training. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:20 Oh, that's awesome.

Matt Serra 21:20 Blending in with the guys, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:22 He's nice. He's a great guy. I've known him forever.

Matt Serra 21:24 I just seen him in either Becky or The Wrath of Becky.

Joe Rogan 21:28 Oh, yeah. That's right.

Matt Serra 21:29 'Cause it's not a bad show. It's not a b-

Joe Rogan 21:31 He was great. He plays a psycho.

Matt Serra 21:32 And the girl in it is great.

Joe Rogan 21:34 Yeah.

Matt Serra 21:34 It's a, the girl's, like, a little psycho girl.

Joe Rogan 21:36 That's a fun movie.

Matt Serra 21:37 It's fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:38 Really fun. Really fun.

Matt Serra 21:38 I think it's the first one called Becky, and he plays a villain. He plays, uh-

Joe Rogan 21:43 Um, the other guy that did it was Joel McHale.

Matt Serra 21:45 Mm.

Joe Rogan 21:46 Joel McHale played the, the second psycho-

Matt Serra 21:48 Mm

Joe Rogan 21:48 ... in one of the other movies. I forget if it was either the first or the second one.

Matt Serra 21:51 I think he's in the second one, The Wrath of Becky.

Joe Rogan 21:53 Kevin was awesome in that.

Matt Serra 21:54 These are good. These are good movies.

Joe Rogan 21:55 Kevin played a good psycho.

Matt Serra 21:57 Hey, did you ever see The, The, The Knight of the Seven Kingdoms?

Joe Rogan 22:01 No, I haven't seen that yet.

Matt Serra 22:02 Oh, I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 22:03 I'm gonna watch it, though, because I'm in the middle of finishing the first season of Game... Uh, the first year, the first, all Game of Thrones.

Matt Serra 22:10 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:10 The first-

Matt Serra 22:10 What, you're doing it over?

Joe Rogan 22:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Serra 22:12 Oh, you've seen it already.

Joe Rogan 22:12 I, but I haven't seen it since, like, 2015 or '11.

Matt Serra 22:15 But it's awesome.

Joe Rogan 22:16 I don't remember.

22:16 Oh, the show is amazing.

22:16 It's fucking ama- I forgot so much.

Matt Serra 22:18 It's... No, it's great.

Joe Rogan 22:19 I forgot so much.

22:19 It's fucking awesome.

Matt Serra 22:20 This, you don't even have to watch any of the Game of Thrones, 'cause this takes place 90 years-

Joe Rogan 22:25 Yeah, it's before

Matt Serra 22:25 ... before the first events of the Game of Thrones.

Joe Rogan 22:27 So before... Oh.

Matt Serra 22:27 Ser Duncan the Tall.

Joe Rogan 22:29 Yep.

Matt Serra 22:29 And it is so good.

Joe Rogan 22:31 It is good.

Matt Serra 22:31 So well done, and it's based on the novel. I'm a fucking nerd.

Joe Rogan 22:35 [laughs]

Matt Serra 22:35 I, I read the graphic novel of it by, uh, J- George R.R. Martin.

Joe Rogan 22:39 Yeah, yeah.

Matt Serra 22:40 And I read it back in the day, and it was, it's so great, and you know how they have, like, trial o- um, by combat?

Joe Rogan 22:47 Yeah.

Matt Serra 22:48 In this one, not to give everything away, but he, this guy gets into it, and he has to do a trial by seven. So it's seven on seven knights.

Joe Rogan 22:54 Yep.

Matt Serra 22:55 And it's, like, one of those things. He's a hedge knight. It's, it's fucking really-

Joe Rogan 22:58 Yeah, it's good

Matt Serra 22:59 ... what, what I like about it is-

Joe Rogan 22:59 It's a great story

Matt Serra 23:00 ... did you ever watch The House of the Dragon?

Joe Rogan 23:01 Yes.

Matt Serra 23:03 It's a lot of cool shit.

Joe Rogan 23:04 Yeah.

Matt Serra 23:04 But-

Joe Rogan 23:05 It's pretty crazy

Matt Serra 23:05 ... there's no one to root for. They're a bunch of pricks.

Joe Rogan 23:07 Right, right.

Matt Serra 23:08 The, the, who... One's worse than the other.

Joe Rogan 23:09 Right, right.

Matt Serra 23:10 I mean, back in, in Game of Thrones, Jon Snow, we had, you know-

Joe Rogan 23:13 Right, right, right, sure

Matt Serra 23:14 ... um, Ned Stark. Guys doing... Even some guys that are, you know, even just great characters-

Joe Rogan 23:18 Yeah

Matt Serra 23:19 ... and some guys that are on, like, The Hound, who's do-

Joe Rogan 23:21 Yeah

Matt Serra 23:21 ... like, the anti-hero.

Joe Rogan 23:22 The Hound.

Matt Serra 23:22 But with this one, it's just a fucking good, solid dude trying to do the right thing.

Joe Rogan 23:29 Yep.

Matt Serra 23:29 And, uh... And he, and by trying to do the right thing, he gets into, you know, into some trouble, and it's just, it gives you, like... It's like, like being righteous and have, like, real heroics. Like, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 23:41 Yeah.

Matt Serra 23:41 Like, some shit's that, that's missing nowadays 'cause it's all about getting a fucking message in there or making s- shit diverse, which I love, though.

Joe Rogan 23:48 [laughs]

Matt Serra 23:48 Although, I mean, I love that shit.

Joe Rogan 23:49 You know what's literally funny about that, D?

Matt Serra 23:52 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 23:53 Game of Thrones, Game of Thrones was, like, a feminist seriesIf you, if you really think about it

Din Thomas 24:01 I mean, [laughs] it really was

Joe Rogan 24:02 But, but without any fanfare. Like no bringing it up.

Din Thomas 24:06 Wow

Joe Rogan 24:06 No one paid attention to it, but the baddest people-

Din Thomas 24:10 That was great

Joe Rogan 24:10 ... on that show were the women.

Din Thomas 24:11 Mm. True, yeah

Joe Rogan 24:11 Cersei Lannister was the baddest bitch in the world.

Din Thomas 24:13 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:13 Arya Stark fucking killed everybody.

Din Thomas 24:16 Yeah, Brienne of Tarth.

Joe Rogan 24:17 Brienne of Stark kept it together-

Din Thomas 24:18 Her character turned out great, yeah

Joe Rogan 24:18 ... through all that shit.

Din Thomas 24:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 24:19 Brienne of Tarth fucked everybody up-

Din Thomas 24:21 Yeah

Joe Rogan 24:21 ... including The Hound.

Din Thomas 24:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:23 I didn't realize-

Din Thomas 24:23 And then you got the, and then you got the Queen of Dragons

Joe Rogan 24:25 ... the most feminist ... Yes, and you got Daenerys.

Din Thomas 24:27 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:27 The Queen of Dragons, who's the baddest motherfucker on earth. You literally can't burn her.

Din Thomas 24:31 Yeah

Joe Rogan 24:32 And she's got three dragons.

Din Thomas 24:33 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 24:34 It's a feminist series.

Din Thomas 24:35 That show, that show is amazing.

Matt Serra 24:36 I didn't realize that.

Joe Rogan 24:37 It is. It's a completely feminist series, but without-

Matt Serra 24:39 Yeah, but it, it, it never even crosses your mind

Joe Rogan 24:41 ... it doesn't cross your mind.

Matt Serra 24:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 24:42 'Cause it's so good you don't care.

Matt Serra 24:43 Yeah

Joe Rogan 24:43 It's not, it's not, like, dumb. It's in your face.

Matt Serra 24:45 You haven't watched, you haven't watched that, Dean?

Din Thomas 24:47 Yeah, yeah.

Matt Serra 24:47 No, I, I, yeah, I did.

Din Thomas 24:48 Oh, all right. Yeah. Sick.

Matt Serra 24:48 And House of Dragons is the same way.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Right, like, there's some of these-

Matt Serra 24:51 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 24:51 ... like, Star Wars movies where it's all women generals, and you're like, "Uh, uh, uh."

Matt Serra 24:58 Shut the fuck up.

Din Thomas 24:59 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 24:59 [laughs]

Matt Serra 24:59 Shut the fuck up, Act.

Joe Rogan 24:59 And all the men are scared of them, and they all, like, get, get out of the room.

Matt Serra 25:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:02 Like, it's ... This is fiction.

Matt Serra 25:04 Yeah, right?

Joe Rogan 25:04 This is nonsense. D- even though that's obviously fiction too, it's way better.

Matt Serra 25:10 No, this-

Joe Rogan 25:10 A lady that has dragons.

Matt Serra 25:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:12 The hottest bitch around, she's got dragons.

Matt Serra 25:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:14 She fucks, she fucks a bunch of killers.

Matt Serra 25:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:16 She brings them into her bed.

Matt Serra 25:17 [laughs]

Din Thomas 25:17 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 25:17 Fights a gang of barbarians.

Matt Serra 25:17 Well, because they do a good job of making them ... Well, they do such a good job of making them flawed-

Joe Rogan 25:23 Yes

Matt Serra 25:23 ... that you don't even realize-

Joe Rogan 25:25 Yes

Matt Serra 25:25 ... that they are the baddest motherfuckers-

Joe Rogan 25:27 Yes

Matt Serra 25:27 ... in the world. But they're so, but they're flawed in a way where it's like it makes them human.

Joe Rogan 25:32 Yeah.

Matt Serra 25:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:32 I mean, look at Cersei Lannister. All of her kids, gone. That bitch survives. She's got a giant demon that watches over her.

Matt Serra 25:39 Yeah.

Din Thomas 25:39 Right?

Joe Rogan 25:39 Like [laughs]

Matt Serra 25:40 She's in love with her brother.

Joe Rogan 25:41 She fucks her brother. [laughs]

Matt Serra 25:42 [laughs]

Din Thomas 25:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:42 She bangs her brother. Remember when she had the ... Well, I don't ... Spoiler alert. But when she had that, uh, the to- the priest that tortured her where she was in the cell-

Matt Serra 25:49 Yeah

Joe Rogan 25:49 ... when they finally got her.

Matt Serra 25:50 Yeah.

Din Thomas 25:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:51 And she's like, "I'm ready to meet my maker."

Din Thomas 25:52 Oh.

Joe Rogan 25:52 She's like, "Oh, you're not gonna die today."

Matt Serra 25:54 Oh, man.

Din Thomas 25:56 Right? And then, and then the mount- the thing-

Matt Serra 25:57 That fucking John Rallo taking off his ...

Din Thomas 26:01 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:01 [laughs]

Matt Serra 26:01 That was, that was John Rallo. Fucking ...

Din Thomas 26:03 Oh my God. [laughs]

Matt Serra 26:05 Oh, dude.

Din Thomas 26:06 That was such a horrifying scene.

Joe Rogan 26:08 It was such a great show, though.

Matt Serra 26:09 Yeah, is there a better, like, world, universe than that?

Din Thomas 26:13 The other thing, too-

Joe Rogan 26:13 No

Din Thomas 26:13 ... no, no one was safe on that show.

Joe Rogan 26:15 No, no.

Din Thomas 26:15 You never knew. The, the biggest character could just get fucking murked at like the next episode.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Bro.

Matt Serra 26:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:21 And Pedro, Pedro Pascal that played that ... What, what was his character?

Matt Serra 26:24 Oh, oh, oh, yeah.

Din Thomas 26:25 When he passed.

Joe Rogan 26:25 When he got killed by the mountain.

Matt Serra 26:26 Prince Oberyn.

Joe Rogan 26:26 Prince O- Prince Oboro.

Matt Serra 26:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:28 Uh, first of all, I never thought they would kill him. Like, that guy's an important character. He's bringing all this new life to the show.

Matt Serra 26:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:33 Then all of a sudden you see the mountain just-

Matt Serra 26:34 Get around

Joe Rogan 26:35 ... knuckles into that guy's eyeballs and crushes his head.

Matt Serra 26:37 Yeah, that was so crazy.

Joe Rogan 26:38 Holy fuck, that was, like, one of the most disturbing murder scenes you've ever seen in your life.

Matt Serra 26:43 And he was doing great. He was taking the shit out him. He got too cocky.

Joe Rogan 26:45 He got cocky. Fucked up.

Din Thomas 26:45 Yeah, man. Wish, would've, would've worked him over.

Joe Rogan 26:48 Thought he had him.

Matt Serra 26:49 "You raped her. You murdered her."

Joe Rogan 26:51 That's right.

Matt Serra 26:51 "You killed her children," some shit like that.

Joe Rogan 26:53 Yeah.

Matt Serra 26:53 Kept repeating it. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:54 Yeah, and, and strutting around while the mountain's on his back.

Matt Serra 26:57 They ... Oh.

Joe Rogan 26:59 What a crazy show.

Matt Serra 27:00 Such a good show.

Din Thomas 27:01 Great show.

Joe Rogan 27:01 One of the greatest shows of all time.

Matt Serra 27:03 I'm telling you, you gotta t- text me after you watch the Night of the Seven Kingdoms, 'cause it's all out.

Din Thomas 27:07 I'm, I'm definitely gonna.

Matt Serra 27:07 You can binge it.

Joe Rogan 27:08 I'm gonna do it as soon as we're done with this.

Matt Serra 27:09 It's quick too, Joe.

Joe Rogan 27:09 We're on, like, season seven now.

Din Thomas 27:11 Six, six episodes.

Matt Serra 27:12 And each, each episode's, like, 30 minutes of some shit.

Din Thomas 27:13 Right. It's, if you run through it.

Joe Rogan 27:15 The House of Dragons never really dragged me in.

Matt Serra 27:17 It didn't?

Joe Rogan 27:18 No.

Matt Serra 27:18 Oh.

Joe Rogan 27:18 It was interesting.

Matt Serra 27:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:19 You know, it was like, uh, it had me-

Din Thomas 27:20 Yeah, I liked it

Joe Rogan 27:21 ... but it wasn't the same thing.

Din Thomas 27:22 Definitely not. This, I think this, the new one is, in my opinion, better, I thought.

Matt Serra 27:28 Oh, the Ser- the, the Knight.

Din Thomas 27:29 Yeah, the Knight, whatever.

Matt Serra 27:30 It's so good. It get, there's-

Din Thomas 27:31 Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

Matt Serra 27:31 ... there's parts in it that just get you going like, "Fuck yeah."

Din Thomas 27:34 Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.

Matt Serra 27:35 I get fucking nuts.

Din Thomas 27:35 I'm looking forward to the ... I hope they lengthen it a little bit, you know what I'm saying?

Matt Serra 27:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:39 Yeah.

Din Thomas 27:39 Six half-hour episodes would be really-

Matt Serra 27:41 But I love the relationship between the kid and the-

Joe Rogan 27:43 Dunk

Matt Serra 27:43 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:44 Dude, that was the whole-

Matt Serra 27:44 They made that so fucking cool, yeah

Joe Rogan 27:45 ... that was the whole sh- that was the whole show

Matt Serra 27:46 ... made it so cool, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:46 Right?

Din Thomas 27:47 One thing I did love about House of Dragons, when they were trying to figure out who could ride a dragon.

Matt Serra 27:51 Oh, that was cool.

Din Thomas 27:51 When they brought all those people down there to test them.

Joe Rogan 27:53 They were eating them.

Matt Serra 27:53 Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Din Thomas 27:55 [laughs] Snatch.

Joe Rogan 27:56 You have to have some Targaryen blood.

Matt Serra 27:58 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:58 And a lot of the Targaryens fucked a lot of regular people, so they were searching for Targaryen blood.

Matt Serra 28:03 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 28:03 Just taking people out of the pub and just push them in front of the dragon. That was crazy.

Matt Serra 28:07 She first, they, yes, they, uh, one of the King's Guard. They're like, "You know, we tracked you back to whatever," and he's like, "Oh, it's a great honor. No, I wanna do it."

Joe Rogan 28:14 Yeah, buddy.

Matt Serra 28:15 Careful what you wish for, motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 28:16 That scene was nuts.

Matt Serra 28:18 He got burnt up.

Joe Rogan 28:18 That scene was nuts.

Din Thomas 28:19 Dude, the red, the Red Wedding, fucking that was the craziest shit ever.

Matt Serra 28:23 Oh.

Joe Rogan 28:23 You couldn't believe it was happening.

Din Thomas 28:24 No.

Joe Rogan 28:24 While it was happening, you're like, "This can't-

Din Thomas 28:25 Espe- 'cause they were taking everybody out

Joe Rogan 28:27 ... be happening. This can't be happening."

Matt Serra 28:29 Did you hate the ending as much of, as everybody else?

Joe Rogan 28:31 I did not enjoy it. It felt to me like they had to tie it up and, like, "Da, da, da, nice little bow." You know, I would've been almost better if it was like No Country for Old Man style ending.

Matt Serra 28:41 Yeah.

Din Thomas 28:42 I think all sh- all shows should be like that because life continues afterwards, right?

Joe Rogan 28:46 Yeah.

Matt Serra 28:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:46 So you don't have to tie it in.

Matt Serra 28:47 Yeah. I'm not 12.

Joe Rogan 28:48 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Din Thomas 28:49 Yeah. [laughs]

Matt Serra 28:50 Once it got past the books, it took a hit.

Din Thomas 28:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Well, that guy's a genius.

Din Thomas 28:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:55 I mean, the, the, the world that guy created and the complexity of all the characters, like Tyrion Lannister and Tywin Lannister, right?

Matt Serra 29:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:03 Oh my God, he's so good.

Din Thomas 29:04 I mean, Tyrion ran shit.

Matt Serra 29:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:06 Yeah, man. I mean, I mean, that guy was so fucking good, man.

Matt Serra 29:09 They're already doing the, the, uh, Sworn Sword, which is the second book of, uh, Game of Thrones of, uh, the Dunk and Egg tales.

Din Thomas 29:16 Oh, nice.

Matt Serra 29:17 Yeah.

Din Thomas 29:17 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 29:18 That's in, that's his writing too?

Matt Serra 29:20 That, yeah, he, that's his, yeah, he, he, he did three-

Din Thomas 29:21 Also, they're doing another one

Matt Serra 29:23 ... he did three books. It was, uh, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, which they just did.

Din Thomas 29:26 Yeah, that's the-

Matt Serra 29:26 They're gonna do a Sworn Sword, and then it's The Mystery Knight. I don't know anything, but I know a lot of Game of Thrones shit.

Joe Rogan 29:32 [laughs]

Din Thomas 29:33 [laughs]

Matt Serra 29:33 Don't ask me about anything else.

Joe Rogan 29:34 Game of Thrones and Star Wars.

Din Thomas 29:36 Listen, man.

Joe Rogan 29:36 You're my go-to.

Matt Serra 29:37 The world's so fucked up.

Joe Rogan 29:38 It's, you're way better off with that stuff in your head.

Matt Serra 29:41 That's why I do it, man.

Joe Rogan 29:42 Yeah.

Matt Serra 29:42 It's such an escape, man.

Joe Rogan 29:44 Right.

Matt Serra 29:44 Just to sit home and watch TV.

Joe Rogan 29:44 We were talking about that last night.

Matt Serra 29:45 That's all I do, man, sit home and watch TV.

Din Thomas 29:47 Speaking of Star Wars, I got a, a text out of nowhere from, uh, from George St-Pierre. He loves it as much as me.

Joe Rogan 29:53 Oh, yeah.

Din Thomas 29:53 It was just about the new Darth Maul animated series.

Joe Rogan 29:56 My brother-

Matt Serra 29:57 Oh, no, he ... Oh, I swear to God.

Joe Rogan 29:58 Yo.

Matt Serra 29:59 And then he gave me back a report. He told me. He's like, "Oh, it's so far so good. This and that."

Joe Rogan 30:02 Dude.

Din Thomas 30:03 I told you, my brother, my brother's like, "I know Matt's into Star Wars. Tell him watch the new Darth Maul."

Matt Serra 30:08 It's good.

Din Thomas 30:08 You know, Jamie said.

Matt Serra 30:09 It's fun. I, I, I love George. He's, he loves this stuff.

Din Thomas 30:13 He's the best.

Matt Serra 30:13 Yeah.

Din Thomas 30:13 I have the hardest time convincing people who he is. It's hilarious.

Matt Serra 30:17 What do you mean?

Din Thomas 30:17 Like, when people, when he comes to the mothership and people that don't know anything about MMA, they're like, "What does your friend do?" I go, "That is one of the greatest fighters that ever walked the face of the earth."

Joe Rogan 30:26 [laughs]

Matt Serra 30:26 100%.

Din Thomas 30:27 And they're like, "No, for real?" I go, "Yeah, 100% in everybody's list of one of the greatest of all time."

Matt Serra 30:32 That's-

Din Thomas 30:32 And he's like, "Hello, nice to meet you."

Joe Rogan 30:34 Yeah, right? [laughs]

Din Thomas 30:35 He just seems so sweet and friendly.

Matt Serra 30:37 I mean, that's the problem with MMA, is that, like, you have to convince people about how bad somebody was, and it wasn't that long ago.

Joe Rogan 30:43 Man.

Matt Serra 30:43 I mean, it wasn't that long ago that George St-Pierre was the fucking greatest of all time.

Joe Rogan 30:47 No, wasn't that long ago.

Matt Serra 30:48 And now, but the fans are so new that you c- they don't get it.

Joe Rogan 30:51 They don't go back and watch it.

Matt Serra 30:52 They had to watch, like, go back and watch the Jon Fitch fight.

Joe Rogan 30:55 Oh, man.

Matt Serra 30:56 Yeah, prime GSP.

Joe Rogan 30:58 He was-

Matt Serra 30:58 Prime. He was terrifying. Q- incredible gas tank, great flow between grappling and striking. V- you know, very creative.

Guest 31:06 He put that shit together the best. That's why he had such success taking everybody down. Like, his, um-

Matt Serra 31:11 Yeah, man

Guest 31:11 ... he would set it up, his level change.

Joe Rogan 31:13 Right.

Guest 31:13 And he always, he ran through every takedown. It was never-

Joe Rogan 31:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Guest 31:16 ... you would get stuffed.

Joe Rogan 31:17 He was so good at that shit, yeah.

Guest 31:17 He was gonna run you across the cage.

Matt Serra 31:19 George was phenomenal, and then I think Ferras Zahabi was a big part of that, too. Ferras Zahabi's a bad motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 31:25 Yeah. Yeah, he's smart.

Matt Serra 31:25 You ever watch his YouTube breakdowns of fights?

Joe Rogan 31:27 Sometimes, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Matt Serra 31:28 He's-

Joe Rogan 31:28 He's incredible.

Matt Serra 31:29 Very, very-

Joe Rogan 31:29 He's incredible

Matt Serra 31:30 ... astute. He j- he's so knowledgeable of the game, of every aspect of it, you know?

Joe Rogan 31:35 His, his brother is doing well.

Matt Serra 31:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:37 And his, and his-

Matt Serra 31:37 His brother's fighting at the White House

Joe Rogan 31:38 ... he's fighting Sean O'Malley, and I think people are sleeping on him. You know what I mean?

Matt Serra 31:42 Well, listen, he keeps winning.

Joe Rogan 31:44 Yeah.

Matt Serra 31:44 He keeps fucking winning. The, the one fight that he had that was kind of c- a little controversial was Aldo. Remember when Aldo almost had him out?

Joe Rogan 31:51 Yeah, yeah. I don't know, yeah, for sure. I'm not sure he won that fight.

Matt Serra 31:54 Me either.

Joe Rogan 31:55 He, 'cause I think they're not being generous enough with the 10-8s and the 10-7s.

Matt Serra 32:00 They don't do it enough.

Joe Rogan 32:01 Not enough.

Matt Serra 32:01 No.

Joe Rogan 32:01 There's, when a guy just tunes you up for like a minute and a half of the round, and you almost go unconscious, you know? Like, that, that means a lot.

Matt Serra 32:11 I hate the fact that they don't use it enough, all because, like, Dana was like, "Oh, I don't like it." And now the judges are just like, "No, we can't do it because..."

Joe Rogan 32:18 Listen, the scoring system sucks-

Matt Serra 32:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 32:20 ... because we stole it from boxing. It's not-

Matt Serra 32:22 Yes.

Joe Rogan 32:23 It doesn't have enough points.

Matt Serra 32:25 For sure.

Joe Rogan 32:25 It should be like a, you should get, like, a certain amount of points for different things. But it would be really hard to calculate, 'cause it would be, have to be subjective. Like, if Pereira hits you, it's way harder than if someone's like, you know, Paul Craig.

Matt Serra 32:40 Right, yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 32:40 Like, no disrespect.

Matt Serra 32:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:41 But you know what I'm saying?

Matt Serra 32:42 For sure. It's a big difference.

Joe Rogan 32:42 The consequences are very different, so if he hits you with a left hook, it's different than if Pereira hits you with a left hook. So that's subjective. But in terms of, like, what happens in the fight, you should be counting in submission attempts. You should be counting in takedown attempts. Like, who was more aggressive? Who was more defensive? Who, whose, who implemented their strat- you should have, like, 100 points to work with.

Matt Serra 33:02 Absolutely. If they got 10 points, why are we only using two of them?

Joe Rogan 33:05 It's nuts.

Matt Serra 33:06 9 out of 10, why? I don't get it.

Joe Rogan 33:07 It's, it don't make any sense, 'cause there's 10-9 rounds that are like, uh, could be anybody.

Matt Serra 33:11 And it's, I mean, for sure.

Joe Rogan 33:11 And there's 10-9 rounds where the, he dominated. That's nuts.

Matt Serra 33:14 Well, that's a, well, see, like, UFC BJJ uses that, and it works better for that because they're very liberal with the 10-8s and 10-7s.

Joe Rogan 33:22 Oh.

Matt Serra 33:22 They use it a lot. They're like, if it's 10, if it's close, it's a 10-9. If it's one-sided, it's automatically a 10-8. So they use it a lot.

Guest 33:29 I think it makes more sense.

Matt Serra 33:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:31 That does make more sense. But even in BJJ, I would say you'd need more points. You need, like, it's, like, the difference between a 70/30 round, where a guy's dominating you 70% of the time, and a 51/49 round is fucking huge.

Matt Serra 33:45 Yeah. No doubt.

Joe Rogan 33:46 It's huge.

Matt Serra 33:46 For sure.

Joe Rogan 33:46 And it doesn't reflect it in the scorecards at all.

Matt Serra 33:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:49 So, like, you could win a 10-9 round the first round, where it's like you're barely ahead, like, maybe I'll give it to you. And then the second round, that dude fucks you up, and he gets a 10-9 round, 'cause you didn't go down.

Matt Serra 34:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:02 But he's head kicking you, and you're blocking it. You're getting teeped. Your legs are getting kicked all the time. It's still a 10-9 round? That's some, that's nuts.

Matt Serra 34:10 No.

Joe Rogan 34:10 Just 'cause you didn't go unconscious? Just 'cause you didn't get knocked down?

Matt Serra 34:13 I think it's, my ADD's kicking in, but we're talking about the close calls, uh, close scoring. I thought Aljo, I thought he should've got that nod against fucking Volkanovski.

Guest 34:24 Volkanovski?

Matt Serra 34:24 Yeah.

Guest 34:24 I thought so too.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Yes. I, I, I-

Guest 34:25 I didn't think there was a-

Matt Serra 34:26 The guy got on the, uh, he got a-

Guest 34:27 ... one question to me

Matt Serra 34:28 ... one reversal at the end, like, a minute 30 left.

Guest 34:30 Yeah.

Matt Serra 34:30 And Aljo was winning that whole first round.

Guest 34:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Aljo is a nightmare for a grappling expert.

Matt Serra 34:34 He could be undefeated at 145.

Guest 34:35 He's a nightmare, because if your whole thing is grappling with people, and you gotta grapple with Aljo, you got problems.

Joe Rogan 34:40 Yeah.

Matt Serra 34:41 Yeah.

Guest 34:41 That dude gets your back, he's got, he's got a death grip.

Joe Rogan 34:44 I mean, him and Yan, 10, 10-8 round. Like, he was just on his back for the entire fucking round.

Guest 34:47 Dominated him in that second fight.

Joe Rogan 34:49 And they don't, and no, uh, how is that not a 10-8 round?

Matt Serra 34:52 He's fighting Youssef, uh, Zalal soon. I said it wrong.

Joe Rogan 34:55 Yeah, yeah, Youssef Zalal.

Matt Serra 34:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:57 And that's on, on the 25th of April.

Matt Serra 34:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:58 But I mean, I, but I think, you know, if it hits the ground, I think there's levels to this.

Matt Serra 35:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:03 Does, did Aljo over Yan in the second fight, was that, like, the best anybody's ever done with Yan?

Matt Serra 35:08 Oh, he, he destroyed him.

Guest 35:09 Yeah, straight up, for sure.

Joe Rogan 35:10 Right?

Matt Serra 35:10 His control-

Joe Rogan 35:11 Yeah

Matt Serra 35:11 ... is just so good when it hits the floor. That's the difference between him and Merab. Merab keep getting you down and up, down and up.

Joe Rogan 35:16 Right.

Matt Serra 35:16 Aljo hits the floor-

Guest 35:18 Yeah, you're not getting up

Matt Serra 35:18 ... if he, or, and not, even, he just needs back exposure. He's one of those, some guys, they can't jump up on the back. It's not good for them, or they're gonna get tired. Dude, all day long. He'll just go up there, lock that shit on, and-

Joe Rogan 35:29 [laughs]

Matt Serra 35:30 If he doesn't get you, that's his round. Like, he's, he's-

Joe Rogan 35:32 Bro, the Sandhagen fight was j-

Matt Serra 35:34 Oh.

Joe Rogan 35:34 What, what a masterpiece.

Matt Serra 35:36 Oh.

Joe Rogan 35:36 Masterpiece.

Matt Serra 35:37 His grappling is so, so good.

Guest 35:38 Yeah, he doesn't get proper credit.

Joe Rogan 35:40 No, this is back takes some of the best in the, in the sport, period.

Matt Serra 35:43 Man, they're not a big fan of his.

Joe Rogan 35:44 Well-

Matt Serra 35:45 They don't push, I, I feel like-

Joe Rogan 35:46 Ow!

Matt Serra 35:47 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 35:47 Aljo.

Matt Serra 35:47 He's such a nice guy.

Joe Rogan 35:48 I know, he does everything right.

Matt Serra 35:49 He's such a nice guy.

Joe Rogan 35:50 He's such a nice guy.

Matt Serra 35:50 I think it's the one fight with Yan.

Guest 35:51 You know the Yan fight-

Joe Rogan 35:52 I know

Guest 35:52 ... with the neck? That was, I think that was-

Joe Rogan 35:55 But listen-

Guest 35:55 ... turned everybody against him

Joe Rogan 35:56 ... those people are wrong.

Guest 35:57 Yeah, but look what happened.

Joe Rogan 35:58 His neck was fucked up.

Guest 35:59 And look what happened in the second fight.

Joe Rogan 36:00 He had to get his disc replaced.

Guest 36:01 I mean, he should've validated the entire thing by-

Joe Rogan 36:04 100%

Guest 36:04 ... whooping his ass in the second fight, and people just-

Joe Rogan 36:05 But they had already decided they hate him

Guest 36:07 ... they're stuck on it. You're right.

Matt Serra 36:07 They already decided they hate him. [laughs]

Guest 36:08 You're right.

Joe Rogan 36:09 He had to get his fucking disc replaced.

Guest 36:11 Right?

Joe Rogan 36:11 It was real.

Matt Serra 36:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:12 That was a real fucking injury.

Matt Serra 36:13 He should be, he could be un- he could be a two-time champ, a double division champ.

Joe Rogan 36:17 Yeah.

Matt Serra 36:17 I mean, he's, I, uh, in my mind, he's undefeated at 145.

Joe Rogan 36:20 Yeah.

Matt Serra 36:21 Look what he did to Calvin Kattar, which was-

Joe Rogan 36:22 Yeah

Matt Serra 36:23 ... I mean, Calvin Kattar's a beast, but it was-

Joe Rogan 36:25 Very impressive.

Matt Serra 36:25 If you didn't know Calvin Kattar-

Joe Rogan 36:26 Exposed him, yeah

Matt Serra 36:26 ... if that's your first fight seeing him, you'd be like, "Oh, that guy doesn't belong here," which he obviously does. He's a beast. But Aljo is masterful. He, you know what it is? He's good at not getting hit, so it's like, he's not giving you that back and forth, 'cause... And L- and Longo says, "You've seen 20% of what he can do stand up, [laughs] in standing up." Like, I'd ask him something, what his f- he's like, "He can put his foot wherever he wants it." [laughs] Like, about a kick or something. He's re- he's just really, really talented, man. I hope he gets his shot. He, if he takes out, uh, you know, uh, Youssef, I hope he, uh-

Din Thomas 36:58 They give him a shot again.

36:59 'Cause-

36:59 I think he could be a two-time champ.

37:00 He... Well, listen, he's still a bad motherfucker. Like, he's, he's a nightmare for everybody, especially if he gets ahold of you.

37:07 Yeah.

37:07 But, I mean, people look at the one fight lo- losses. They look at the Sean O'Malley fight. Like, Sean caught him perfect. That's just how it goes.

37:15 And he, and you know, he, his head wasn't really in that 'cause he didn't even wanna be there.

37:19 Nope.

37:19 Yeah. He-

37:19 Why didn't he wanna be there?

37:21 He, he fight-

Joe Rogan 37:21 They made him fight.

Din Thomas 37:22 Yeah, they made him.

37:22 They made him fight.

37:23 They made him fight that fight. He didn't wanna fight.

Joe Rogan 37:25 Yes.

Din Thomas 37:25 Yeah.

37:26 Yeah. Why?

37:26 They, they, they did, like, a whole documentary on it, where it was like they, they, they kinda twisted his arm. They'd be like, "You gotta do this." And they were... And he-

37:33 Was he injured? Why?

37:34 I think he was injured.

37:35 Maybe it was a quick turnaround.

37:36 Yeah, it was a turnaround.

Joe Rogan 37:37 Too quick.

Din Thomas 37:37 It was too quick a turnaround.

Joe Rogan 37:38 Yeah. Yeah.

Din Thomas 37:38 He's the champ.

37:39 Yeah.

37:39 He didn't feel he should be forced into, you know-

37:42 But he thought the number... He thought they, he thought the pay-per-view numbers was gonna make up for it. He thought he was gonna get all this money from it, 'cause he was like, "All right, I'll do it. Sean O'Malley's gonna bring in the numbers." Then he said when it was over, he saw the numbers, he was like, "If I knew the numbers was gonna be like this, I don't think I'da did it."

37:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:58 Really?

Din Thomas 37:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:59 So it didn't do well.

Din Thomas 38:01 It didn't do as well as he thought he was gonna do based on Sean O'Malley's presence.

Joe Rogan 38:07 Listen, man, it, it takes a lot to get people to pay for something today. There's too much other shit.

Din Thomas 38:12 There's many ways to steal it. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 38:14 This Paramount thing is genius in that regard.

Din Thomas 38:16 Yeah.

38:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:16 Is that all you have to do is have that app.

Din Thomas 38:18 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:18 Which a lot of people have already anyway.

Din Thomas 38:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:20 That's genius. But to make people pay every time to, to watch fights, like, ugh, there's so much to watch today.

Din Thomas 38:27 Well, that-

38:27 It's true.

38:27 Well, that was the one thing that my people at ESPN told me. They was like, "It's a big difference between being popular and then having people pay to watch you fight."

Joe Rogan 38:35 Yeah.

Din Thomas 38:35 Like, you can be popular, but ain't nobody paying you, paying you to fight. So it's a big difference.

Joe Rogan 38:39 It's a giant difference.

Din Thomas 38:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:40 Yeah, it's a giant difference.

Din Thomas 38:42 I like that it's on Paramount as a fan, though.

Joe Rogan 38:44 Yeah.

Din Thomas 38:44 It's fucking... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:45 Save, save you a ton of money. I, I pay... I used to pay for every one of them.

Din Thomas 38:49 This Netflix thing is nice, too. It's good to see that there's, like, someone who's willing to throw a lot of money-

38:55 Mm.

38:55 ... at MMA in another large arena, you know, like Netflix.

38:59 What do you-

38:59 Oh, man.

Din Thomas 38:59 What do you think, guys?

39:01 Gina verse Ronda.

39:04 I, I think f- round one submission, Ronda.

39:06 Yeah.

39:07 Unless she wants to try to just stand up with her, which I doubt. I hope not.

39:12 I don't know what Gina's been doing. You know, I don't know how long she went without MMA training at all.

39:19 She-

39:19 You know, I don't-

39:20 She was recently a little heavy.

39:21 Man.

39:21 I would say that.

39:22 She looks great now.

39:23 I was chubby at once, too. Does she look great now?

Joe Rogan 39:24 She looks great.

Din Thomas 39:24 She looks... Obv- look, she got in great shape.

Joe Rogan 39:26 She got in great shape.

Din Thomas 39:27 But she's still, like, 43 years old.

Joe Rogan 39:28 Yes.

Din Thomas 39:29 Come on.

Joe Rogan 39:29 No, but the, the question is, like, what was she doing in those... Was she still training some? That would be my real question. Because if you just put it all down and you walk away for 17 years, I gotta go. [inhales]

Din Thomas 39:41 I mean, but with the-

Joe Rogan 39:42 You know?

Din Thomas 39:42 ... with the weight loss, uh, with the weight gain that she had, there was no way she was training or doing anything.

39:47 That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

39:48 You know? Uh, like, she's back in shape, and she obviously w- is busting her ass to do that. But-

39:53 And-

39:53 ... how long, like you're saying, was she down?

39:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:56 And she has to develop a, a, a, a grappling defense to one of the best female grapplers ever.

Din Thomas 40:02 No, Ronda's, like, Ronda-

40:04 Her only hope is to keep it on the feet.

40:05 Ronda can choke, go out on her, and I'd still be pretty-

40:07 And then sweep she, yeah, yeah.

40:07 She would poor garden sweeper.

40:09 Or arm lock her.

40:10 Her arm locks are, her arm locks are amazing.

40:12 Her arm locks were amazing.

Joe Rogan 40:12 They're preposterous.

Din Thomas 40:14 You know?

40:14 Yeah.

40:14 I think there's too many, there's too big a level there.

40:16 Dude, dude Ortheik, her arm bars are sick.

Joe Rogan 40:17 Remember that Cat Zingano fight?

Din Thomas 40:18 Cat, yeah.

40:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:19 Charged at her, and she just-

Din Thomas 40:20 Cat threw her.

40:21 That was the craziest thing ever.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Got her in an arm bar, like, instantaneously.

Din Thomas 40:23 Yeah, what a stupid strategy that was. [laughs]

40:25 Yeah, she blanked out on that one.

40:27 Yeah. [laughs]

40:27 So crazy.

40:28 No, but I-

40:29 That, that was such a sick transition, too.

40:30 No, but I saw a video of Gina hitting pads with John Wood that was kinda recent, and it did not look good.

Joe Rogan 40:37 How recent was it? Do we know?

Din Thomas 40:38 I don't know. I don't know. But it didn't look good. I was just like, "Ugh."

Joe Rogan 40:41 It's hard to tell where they're at.

Din Thomas 40:42 I hope it's, or I hope this is older.

40:44 She's a big girl.

40:45 Yeah.

40:45 Maybe she can stop her from taking her down or something. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 40:47 But also, it, it's also what were they doing? Were they just working on slow motion shit? Were they just trying to get a movement, or were they getting in a hard mitt workout? You know what I'm saying?

Din Thomas 40:55 I mean, e- either way, like, just, like-

Joe Rogan 40:57 Not good

Din Thomas 40:57 ... mechanically, it didn't look great.

40:59 Oh.

40:59 Mechanically. So, I mean, but it could've been... It's, like, one of them things where, like, this could be, like, her, her comeback session, and she's just trying to get warmed up. But who knows? I mean, you know, who knows?

41:09 Yeah, who knows?

41:09 Maybe she's... Who knows? You just never know.

Joe Rogan 41:11 You hope so.

Din Thomas 41:11 Yeah, I hope it's better than that.

Joe Rogan 41:13 Yeah.

Din Thomas 41:13 Round one submission.

41:15 I mean, you're probably, probably right.

Joe Rogan 41:17 I mean, come on. I bet, you know, if you had Polymarket, you could make some money on that.

Din Thomas 41:21 Right. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 41:22 [laughs] Just let... There's gonna be a lot of bets on that. It's, uh, it's, it's exciting though that, that Netflix is doing it.

Din Thomas 41:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:29 That's what I like. I like that there's another place people can go. It's, it'll raise-

Din Thomas 41:34 But how, but how sustainable is this, though? That's my biggest question.

41:37 Whoever's putting the money up for this is gonna lose their ass, [laughs] I think.

41:40 Yeah, but-

41:40 You think they're gonna make that money back?

Joe Rogan 41:42 Right, but here's the thing. It's Netflix.

Din Thomas 41:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:44 Right? So Netflix has an insane amount of money, and they keep raking it in. Like, every month, people are paying whatever they're paying. It's as high as, like, what, 19 bucks for ad free? What is it? How much is a Netflix account now?

John Rallo 41:56 I wanna say it's higher.

Joe Rogan 41:57 I think it just went up, right?

Din Thomas 41:59 Yeah, they, they kinda going up.

Joe Rogan 42:00 So think, all that money is just coming in every month. They just gotta give people exciting things to wanna watch, and they'll keep making more money.

Din Thomas 42:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:07 'Cause more people use Netflix. Like, it would seem like they're gonna lose their ass, but they're not, 'cause they have a completely different business model. Obviously, I'm not a businessman. $8.99 to $26.99 per month. I'm a ter- I'm, in fact, I'm a terrible businessman. But I would imagine you'll just make money by giving people awesome shit so they keep tuning into Netflix. So in that sense, they're not gonna lose any money.

Din Thomas 42:29 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 42:29 'Cause there's a lot of MMA fans that probably subscribe to Netflix just so they can watch that fight.

Din Thomas 42:33 Right. So who's on the card now?

42:37 It's, uh-

Joe Rogan 42:37 It's, like, Felipe Linz-

Din Thomas 42:38 Yeah

Joe Rogan 42:39 ... versus Ngannou.

Din Thomas 42:40 Right.

42:40 Yeah. Mike Perry versus Nate Diaz.

42:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:43 Oh.

Din Thomas 42:43 Which is cool.

Joe Rogan 42:44 And Robelis Desspaigne.

Din Thomas 42:45 Yeah, the karate dude.

42:45 Desspaigne, yeah, yeah. And, uh, Junior dos Santos.

Joe Rogan 42:49 That one.

Din Thomas 42:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:50 That one is like, ooh.

Din Thomas 42:51 Who is it?

42:52 Robelis Desspaigne.

Joe Rogan 42:53 That, uh, tall-

Din Thomas 42:54 Tall, tall

Joe Rogan 42:54 ... karate combat dude.

Din Thomas 42:55 Oh.

Joe Rogan 42:55 He's a taekwondo black belt from Cuba.

Din Thomas 42:58 Wait, versus Junior?

Joe Rogan 42:59 Yeah.

Din Thomas 42:59 How old's Junior?

43:00 He's 50 now.

43:02 Is he 50? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 43:03 No. [laughs] He's close. But he's in good shape. I actually did a... We spoke at a high school a couple of months ago.

Din Thomas 43:08 Oh, good.

43:08 Yeah.

43:08 Well, I'm glad to hear that.

Speaker 43:10 I mean, at least these guys will get an outlet to make some extra money

Din Thomas 43:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:12 Yeah, man. Who does Mo Seev vs. Perry?

Din Thomas 43:15 Mo Seev and, uh, Adriano Moraes is a d- you know, that's a... Mo Seev's probably gonna school him. But I mean, it's, they got some... They're giving guys some opportunities, so you gotta like this.

Joe Rogan 43:24 Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It'll be a big show. A lot of people will tune in. Diaz and Perry's gonna be fucking bananas. That'll be really fun to watch.

Speaker 43:34 Yeah, that's, I mean, that'll be worth the price of admission.

Joe Rogan 43:36 Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 43:36 Imagine if that was 10 years ago, that fight would be really amazing.

Din Thomas 43:38 I'm looking at this. It's like the, if the GLLLA went to fucking, it came, it came true. That fucking league.

Joe Rogan 43:44 The GFL?

Din Thomas 43:44 Remember that grandpa league they were in? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 43:46 Yeah.

Speaker 43:46 [laughing]

Din Thomas 43:46 No, not everybody.

Joe Rogan 43:47 They just stole all their talent. Bro, Diaz versus Perry, guaranteed dogfight.

Speaker 43:53 Yeah.

Din Thomas 43:53 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:53 Just a guaranteed dogfight.

Din Thomas 43:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:55 That will not be a boring fight.

Din Thomas 43:57 Who do you think, who do you think wins that?

Speaker 43:58 I think the jiu-jitsu's gonna be too much. I, I think that-

Din Thomas 44:01 I, I kinda think that, too. I kinda think Nate might just drag him deeper, right? Like, uh-

Joe Rogan 44:05 We're gonna see. You know, we're gonna see.

Speaker 44:07 Oh, it's five rounds?

Din Thomas 44:08 Five rounds.

Joe Rogan 44:08 That's crazy. Five rounds is crazy. I wonder why they agreed on that.

Speaker 44:12 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 44:13 Yeah.

Din Thomas 44:13 Why do you think they agreed on that?

Speaker 44:14 I didn't realize that.

Din Thomas 44:15 Is the Gina fight five rounds, or is it three rounds?

Joe Rogan 44:17 Yeah, it's three. When they first announced it-

Din Thomas 44:19 Ronda and Gina?

Joe Rogan 44:19 ... it said five by five for everything, but they've, uh, exchanged a bit.

Din Thomas 44:23 Oh, so it says five by five right there?

Joe Rogan 44:24 So this one says five. Yeah, just for those two, though. This one does not.

Din Thomas 44:27 Oh, it doesn't say that anymore?

Joe Rogan 44:29 No. And it also says [laughs] this is a main event.

Din Thomas 44:31 I mean, I can't imagine Gina's gonna last for five rounds.

Joe Rogan 44:33 Bro, she's asking for it. Well, actually, it does. There, it does. It says it real... It's hard to see it. Yeah, five by five.

Din Thomas 44:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:37 Professional. Yeah, okay. Bro, Lorenz Larkin, back in the day.

Din Thomas 44:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:42 I remember he fought Neil Magny. He was hitting him with oblique kicks to the chest.

Din Thomas 44:46 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 44:46 And I was like, "I do not think I've ever seen anybody throw it that way."

Din Thomas 44:50 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 44:50 You ever see that fight?

Din Thomas 44:51 No. I don't remember that fight.

Joe Rogan 44:53 Oh, he tuned Neil Magny up, man.

Din Thomas 44:54 Did he?

Joe Rogan 44:54 Lorenz Larkin was a bad motherfucker.

Din Thomas 44:56 I do remember that. Like, he had his, he had a good little run.

Joe Rogan 44:59 He was so sharp. He was so-

Din Thomas 45:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:00 His striking was elite.

Din Thomas 45:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:02 And he would, he, when he fought Neil Magny, he... You know, Neil Magny's a tough fucking dude, man.

Din Thomas 45:07 Durable guy.

Joe Rogan 45:07 Durable, incredible discipline and endurance. Like, that dude's never out of shape, and he was just getting tu- look at this.

Din Thomas 45:14 Oof, ooh, geez.

Joe Rogan 45:15 I mean, he's throwing an oblique kick to the ribs.

Din Thomas 45:18 Wow.

Joe Rogan 45:18 That one there, he just hit his arm and knocked him down with it. But earlier, before that, he caught him on the ribcage with it.

Din Thomas 45:24 Just spot on.

Joe Rogan 45:25 Look at that. Look at that.

Din Thomas 45:26 Oh, sorry.

Joe Rogan 45:26 Bro, that's crazy.

Din Thomas 45:27 Yeah, he's giving him a Spottakam.

Joe Rogan 45:29 That's the second...

Din Thomas 45:30 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 45:30 Look at it. But right here, you're seeing him. He's blasting him with this kick that-

Din Thomas 45:35 Dude

Joe Rogan 45:35 ... nobody throws like that. That's a crazy position to put your hips in. [laughs]

Din Thomas 45:39 Right.

Speaker 45:40 That is crazy.

Joe Rogan 45:41 Bro, he's, he was sharp.

Din Thomas 45:42 How did this one end?

Joe Rogan 45:43 He stopped him.

Din Thomas 45:44 Oh, did he?

Joe Rogan 45:45 Yeah.

Din Thomas 45:46 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 45:48 Yeah, Lorenz was all over him, man. It was a pr- well, like, one of the prime performances that I've seen of him fight.

Din Thomas 45:55 Yeah, he had a good little run.

Joe Rogan 45:56 He had a r- a great run. But in, during that run, and this was like, he came from Bellator, right?

Din Thomas 46:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:01 Yeah, and when he came over from Bellator, it's like he was still, like, red hot.

Din Thomas 46:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:04 Like, red hot.

Din Thomas 46:07 Yeah, some-

Speaker 46:07 Yeah.

Din Thomas 46:08 Two guys that were in Bellator, which is, uh, Pitbull and Aaron Pico.

Joe Rogan 46:13 Oh.

Speaker 46:13 Yeah, they're getting ready to fight this weekend.

Din Thomas 46:15 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 46:15 How much time do you think a guy like Pico's supposed to take off after Lerone?

Din Thomas 46:19 We, we were just talking about that.

Joe Rogan 46:21 'Cause I love his offense, man. He's a little raging bull.

Din Thomas 46:24 Animal. Animal.

Joe Rogan 46:25 And strong, powerful, just-

Din Thomas 46:27 He just got caught, and he got caught perfect. I mean, it was just perfect.

Joe Rogan 46:31 That-

Din Thomas 46:31 Those spinning elbows

Joe Rogan 46:31 ... I think he got stopped more than, did he get stopped more than once with a bad knockout like that?

Din Thomas 46:35 Yeah.

Speaker 46:35 Man, his first fight ever.

Joe Rogan 46:36 He's been, yeah. You don't wanna go through your career with one of those.

Speaker 46:38 That kid from, the kid from, um, Kill Cliff.

Din Thomas 46:40 Uh, A- Adam Burick?

Speaker 46:42 Aaron, yeah.

Din Thomas 46:42 Adam Burick.

Speaker 46:43 Yeah, he got him with a flying knee.

Din Thomas 46:44 With a flying knee, yeah.

Speaker 46:45 Yeah.

Din Thomas 46:45 Damn, dude. You don't want too many of those.

Joe Rogan 46:47 That's right.

Din Thomas 46:48 But tho- but those put him out, man.

Joe Rogan 46:50 Yeah.

Din Thomas 46:50 Like, you just see him just go boop.

Joe Rogan 46:51 Yeah. That Macy Barber one the other day was, whoa.

Din Thomas 46:55 Ooh. Dude, that was just-

Joe Rogan 46:56 One of the greatest finishes in women's MMA history.

Din Thomas 46:58 Oh, no doubt. I wanted to reach out to Macy 'cause I felt so bad.

Joe Rogan 47:02 I wanted to reach out to the doctor and say, "What the fuck are you thinking?"

Din Thomas 47:04 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 47:04 He's just over like... [laughing]

Din Thomas 47:06 Like, put-

Speaker 47:06 Poking him with a fucking finger. [laughing]

Din Thomas 47:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:08 So crazy.

Din Thomas 47:09 Yeah. [laughing] He's like, I'm like, "Get some smell." I'm like, "Somebody, the cameraman, please get off this, or somebody talk to the doctor. 'Cause I don't know what the fuck..." He was just over like, "Man, this is fucked up." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 47:21 [laughing] I don't think he knew exactly what was going on. He probably has no experience in combat sports, right?

Din Thomas 47:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:26 He didn't realize that she got knocked out, and while she was out cold, she got strangled.

Din Thomas 47:31 Oh, dude.

Speaker 47:31 She transitioned so fast.

Joe Rogan 47:33 Like, took a, she's out there.

Din Thomas 47:34 Oof. Jesus.

Joe Rogan 47:34 She's out cold already.

Din Thomas 47:36 Damn.

Joe Rogan 47:36 And then she gets strangled. Like, that's never happened before.

Speaker 47:39 What's crazy is she was-

Din Thomas 47:40 Look at the way he catches her here

Speaker 47:41 ... like, kinda still reacting, and then when they put her on her back, she just, it was, I don't know what was going on.

Joe Rogan 47:45 Well, no, she went limp as she was trying to sit up. She went limp, you see right there. Like, she was trying to get up, and then as the guy has his arm around her, she goes limp.

Din Thomas 47:56 Dude. See, there's like, there's, uh, C-Level Kane, and then there's Southpaw Alexa. When she fights Southpaw, man, she is dangerous.

Joe Rogan 48:03 Then this confused doctor.

Din Thomas 48:05 She's sh-

Joe Rogan 48:05 Look at him.

Din Thomas 48:05 Yeah, look at him. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 48:07 She's, "Right. Never seen this before. Hey."

Din Thomas 48:10 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 48:11 Look at him.

Din Thomas 48:11 Right. He's like, "Are you all right?"

Joe Rogan 48:12 Crazy.

Din Thomas 48:12 She's just li- well, she's kinda coming to there.

Joe Rogan 48:15 Yeah, she's blinking.

Din Thomas 48:15 I think she's blinking. But that was just-

Joe Rogan 48:17 Holy shit

Din Thomas 48:18 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:18 Wow, and the speed that she took her back, man, just whoo.

Din Thomas 48:21 She's like, left hand, boop, back, choke.

Joe Rogan 48:23 Just amazing.

Din Thomas 48:24 Pulling it.

Joe Rogan 48:24 One shot while she was out still, cracked her again, got her back, and choked her, all like a lightning bolt. That was super impressive.

Din Thomas 48:31 But that's the same combination she hit Valentina with when she finished her.

Joe Rogan 48:34 I feel like it was five minutes when I was sitting there.

Din Thomas 48:36 Yeah. Left hand, boom, took her back. Took her a whi- it took her longer, but look at this. Bam.

Joe Rogan 48:43 Wow.

Din Thomas 48:44 So sh- she's in trouble.

Joe Rogan 48:46 Just, just...

Din Thomas 48:46 Bam, right there, out cold, and then strangled. I don't think that combination of out cold and then strangled has ever happened before.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Uh-uh.

Din Thomas 48:53 No. 'Cause I mean, she's seen, watch, this punch here, that's out cold, right?

Joe Rogan 48:57 Yeah.

Din Thomas 48:58 And then boom.

Joe Rogan 49:00 Sick.

Speaker 49:01 Nah, that's crazy.

Joe Rogan 49:02 [sighs] Crazy. Wow.

Speaker 49:05 She's tough, man.

Joe Rogan 49:08 Oh, man. Your heart, someone fall backwards in front of you after the knockout, you know?Well, h- so here's the thing. She gets up, and when she gets up, I think she faints. Like, I think she tries to get up.

Matt Serra 49:18 Just went out again.

Joe Rogan 49:19 And then he-- Mike puts his arm around her, and she's out.

Matt Serra 49:24 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 49:24 I think she fainted.

Matt Serra 49:25 That's just scary.

Joe Rogan 49:26 Just scary. And she also had had some problems before wh- with seizures.

Matt Serra 49:31 Yeah.

Host 49:31 Oh, man.

Matt Serra 49:32 She had to pull out of that fight with, uh, Erin Blanchfield.

Joe Rogan 49:34 She had a seizure in the locker room.

Matt Serra 49:36 Yeah.

Host 49:36 So they allow, they still allow her to fight even though she's had seizures? That's pretty crazy.

Joe Rogan 49:41 Well, it depends on what's causing the seizures, right?

Host 49:43 Yeah, yeah, good point.

Joe Rogan 49:43 If they know it's a medication that she was on-

Host 49:45 Good point

Joe Rogan 49:45 ... they get her off the medication. Like, there's, I don't know what causes seizures.

Matt Serra 49:48 Well, that shit's not gonna help the seizures, I'll tell you right now.

Joe Rogan 49:50 But it, it certainly wouldn't make me enthusiastic about fighting, right?

Matt Serra 49:53 Yeah.

Host 49:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:54 Like, it would have to fuck with your motivation.

Matt Serra 49:56 Oof.

Joe Rogan 49:56 If you're already having seizures.

Matt Serra 49:58 I wouldn't wanna do it. Like-

Joe Rogan 49:59 Yeah.

Matt Serra 50:00 Not aft- not after that, I wouldn't wanna do it. Any time you fight, that's a possibility.

Joe Rogan 50:06 Yep.

Matt Serra 50:06 Any, I mean, look at a guy who never once looked, uh, took anything remotely like that, like, um, a Kamaru Usman. And even in a fight where he's just doing so great.

Joe Rogan 50:16 Yeah.

Matt Serra 50:16 And then that's the closest thing I've seen to that.

Joe Rogan 50:18 Mm-hmm.

Matt Serra 50:19 Was when he got stopped with that head kick.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Yep.

Matt Serra 50:21 And, you know, that's a possibility any time you make that walk. That's why you got that fucking little feeling in your, argh. [laughing] You know, before you walk out there.

Joe Rogan 50:32 The Kamaru one was nuts, too, because John Anik was just saying, 'cause DC was like, "A lot of people would quit in this situation." And John Anik said something along the lines of, "But that is not the cloth from which he is cut."

Matt Serra 50:43 I know, and then, as soon as-

Joe Rogan 50:45 That is true.

Matt Serra 50:45 I mean, that was, like, the most perfect timing ever.

Joe Rogan 50:48 Ever.

Matt Serra 50:48 Ever.

Joe Rogan 50:48 Like a movie.

Matt Serra 50:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:49 Like, if you saw that in a movie, you're like, "Shut up." [laughing]

Matt Serra 50:51 'Cause I had just, I had just came in and, and was like, "Yeah, I think he's broke." And then DC was saying it, and then John-

Joe Rogan 50:58 Yeah

Matt Serra 50:58 ... intervened with, "He's not cut from that cloth." And boom.

Joe Rogan 51:01 Oh, head kick. It was nuts.

Matt Serra 51:03 What is that new-

Joe Rogan 51:04 Nuts

Matt Serra 51:04 ... Russell Crowe's doing a new MMA movie?

Joe Rogan 51:06 Beast.

Host 51:06 Yeah.

Matt Serra 51:06 Is that, is that gonna be, is that supposed to be the UFC?

Joe Rogan 51:09 No, it's supposed to be OneC-

Matt Serra 51:10 I think it's gonna be One.

Joe Rogan 51:10 Yeah, One, OneFC.

Matt Serra 51:11 One. I think they're doing, they did it with OneFC.

Joe Rogan 51:13 Oh, yeah. Interesting.

Host 51:13 Yeah.

Matt Serra 51:14 Yeah. I wonder what that's gonna be like.

Joe Rogan 51:15 Yeah, but I mean, like, the, who's, the fighter is, like, my age. I'm like, "Yo, what's going on here?"

Matt Serra 51:20 Maybe it's a comeback.

Host 51:20 Coming back.

Matt Serra 51:21 Yeah. [laughs]

Host 51:21 Like Randy Couture, won the title in his 40s.

Matt Serra 51:24 Yeah.

Host 51:24 You know?

Matt Serra 51:24 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 51:25 One has some wild striking fights, man.

Matt Serra 51:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:28 Some of the absolute best stand-up fights in the world are happening on One. I watch it all the time.

Matt Serra 51:33 I never know when that shit's on, bro.

Joe Rogan 51:35 Yeah, when is that on?

Matt Serra 51:35 Where do you watch that at?

Joe Rogan 51:36 There's this fucking cat out of Dagestan. Do you guys know who I'm talking about? Asadulla Imangazaliev.

Matt Serra 51:42 No.

Host 51:42 No.

Joe Rogan 51:42 Bro, this dude is, uh, I think he's 135 pounds. I think that's what he fights at, and he's, like, six foot one.

Matt Serra 51:50 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 51:50 And just a laser beam striker. Uh, just fucks people up. Like, literally might be the best striker in the world.

Matt Serra 51:57 Is it just kickboxing?

Joe Rogan 51:58 Yeah, and he's getting in there with Muay Thai. He's getting in there with world Muay Thai champions and KO'ing them. Like, three-time world Lumpini Muay Thai champions.

Matt Serra 52:09 Damn.

Joe Rogan 52:09 Lumpini Stadium guys. This guy is a fucking-

Matt Serra 52:12 Ooh, look at that body shot

Joe Rogan 52:12 ... straight killer, dude, and he's from Dagestan, and he can wrestle.

Matt Serra 52:16 Damn.

Host 52:16 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 52:16 You gotta, see if you can find, like, a highlight reel of his KOs, 'cause this is just, like, get on YouTube.

Matt Serra 52:22 The body shot was nasty.

Joe Rogan 52:23 This, I watch this cat every time he fights. I just can't, he's so fucking accurate, and he's so slick.

Matt Serra 52:30 How old is he?

Joe Rogan 52:31 He's 22.

Matt Serra 52:32 Oh, damn.

Host 52:33 Damn.

Joe Rogan 52:33 Yeah, man, I'm telling you, this 22-year-old cat from Dagestan might be the best striker on Earth right now. This dude is-

Matt Serra 52:41 Wow

Joe Rogan 52:41 ... so impressive, and I'm telling you-

Matt Serra 52:43 Jesus

Joe Rogan 52:43 ... he's doing this to dudes who are world champions.

Matt Serra 52:46 Oh.

Host 52:46 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 52:48 He's taking out world champion kickboxers, world champion Muay Thai fighters. They're putting him in there with these fucking assassins, and he, he's making them all go night night.

Matt Serra 52:57 Oh, damn. Oh.

Host 52:59 Oh.

Joe Rogan 52:59 Bro, you gotta see it in real speed. Like s- like, you, you see his real movements. It's so impressive.

Matt Serra 53:04 Is he with Khabib Nurmagomedov?

Joe Rogan 53:06 I don't know where he's training out of.

Matt Serra 53:07 Wow.

Joe Rogan 53:07 But he's from Dagestan.

Matt Serra 53:10 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 53:10 Bro.

Matt Serra 53:10 He looks like Zabit.

Joe Rogan 53:11 Yes.

Matt Serra 53:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:12 Like a, like a little bit more robust Zabit.

Matt Serra 53:16 Ooh, robust Zabit.

Joe Rogan 53:17 But it's like, it's different. Like, Zabit had more of a, you know, he had an incredible style, but it was almost, like, more taekwondo-ish. This guy's pure Muay Thai, but he just fucks people up, man.

Matt Serra 53:27 He's accurate, too.

Joe Rogan 53:28 Oh, he spins, spinning heel kicks, everything. Knees to the body. But it's, it's the combinations, the way he's throwing them. He just finds these openings on people with this precision that you're like, "Motherfucker, man."

Matt Serra 53:40 He keeps the pressure on.

Joe Rogan 53:41 Bang.

Host 53:41 Ooh.

Matt Serra 53:41 He keeps the pressure on, too.

Joe Rogan 53:43 He's just flatlining folks.

Matt Serra 53:44 Look at that guy.

Joe Rogan 53:45 One after another, flatlining people.

Matt Serra 53:47 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 53:48 Bro, he's very fucking impressive. And again, very impressive against world championship caliber Muay Thai fighters. These are not scrubs that he's fighting.

Matt Serra 53:57 Damn.

Joe Rogan 53:58 And One's putting these fights on all the time, and I was trying to tell Dana this. I was like, "If you guys had, like, UFC striking, do you know how fucking exciting that would be? If just Muay Thai with MMA gloves on."

Matt Serra 54:09 Well, they should do that. They do the BJJ now.

Joe Rogan 54:11 100%.

Host 54:11 They gotta do it on One.

Joe Rogan 54:12 100%. They're missing out on a giant opportunity, because how many people boo when a fight goes to the ground? Boo.

Matt Serra 54:18 Mm-hmm.

Host 54:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:19 The, these guys never go to the ground.

Matt Serra 54:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:21 It's just all stand-up Muay Thai.

Matt Serra 54:22 And kickboxing is so much more brutal than e- than boxing.

Joe Rogan 54:25 Way more brutal.

Matt Serra 54:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:26 It just didn't get a fair shake in America.

Matt Serra 54:28 I know.

Joe Rogan 54:29 It's not that it's not exciting.

Matt Serra 54:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:30 It's the most exciting aspect of the UFC, other than a great submission like Alexa Grasso after a knockout. That's, like, the most exciting.

Matt Serra 54:35 Right, yeah. [laughs]

Host 54:37 [laughs] Hey.

Joe Rogan 54:38 This episode is brought to you by Visible. Let's be honest, wireless can feel like a world of traps, expensive bills, tacked on fees, and promises that just don't hold up. You start to feel stuck. Don't fall for the trap. Escape to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. Get unlimited data and hotspot powered by Verizon. One line for just $25 a month, taxes and fees included. Get great coverage and a reliable connection with Visible. Plus, for a limited time, new members can get the Visible plan for just $20 a month for one year using code FRESHSTART.Refresh your wireless with Visible. Switch today at visible.com. Terms apply. Limited time offer subject to change. See visible.com for plan, features, and network management details.

Matt Serra 55:33 I could... People bitch about Khomzat, I could watch him do that to Dricus all day long.

Joe Rogan 55:38 All day. All day. Yeah.

Matt Serra 55:38 I don't give a shit. I, that's masterful.

Joe Rogan 55:40 Masterful.

Matt Serra 55:41 Get him off you. Good job.

Joe Rogan 55:42 Yeah, try to get up.

Matt Serra 55:42 People are like, "Oh, that's a shame that he doesn't take chances." Dude, get... He's, he's not like he's not trying to beat the shit out of him. He's getting him tied up and he's beating him up and he's just, he's working him over. I mean, what do you want him to stand up k- in the, in a crucifix?

Joe Rogan 55:55 Yeah. [laughs]

Matt Serra 55:56 What are you talking about here?

Joe Rogan 55:57 Right.

Matt Serra 55:57 Yeah, I mean, that's Dricus' problem. Like, Dricus need to get him... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:59 Yeah. 100%. And I don't, I don't believe in stand ups at all, period. I think the only time you should stand up is if someone fouls. If someone does a foul and then you have to stand up, take a point away from him, maybe then you stand him up.

Matt Serra 56:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:11 But other-

Matt Serra 56:11 Like, you can't, you shouldn't reward a guy for having, like, sh- a shit defense.

Joe Rogan 56:15 Yeah.

Speaker 56:15 If the dude on the bottom is the one that fouled, put him back where they were. Don't reward them.

Matt Serra 56:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 56:21 Right, right, right.

Matt Serra 56:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:22 Right, right, right. Yeah. Definitely. But other than that, why are you letting people stand up? Why? Guy had to work so hard to get him to the ground.

Matt Serra 56:27 That's what he's-

Joe Rogan 56:28 Maybe he's taking a break for a couple seconds to catch his breath.

Matt Serra 56:30 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:31 You know? Like, what the fuck do you want? [laughs]

Matt Serra 56:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:33 Like, figure out how to get up.

Matt Serra 56:34 Yeah. Bottom people just have to be better.

Joe Rogan 56:37 Also, you know what, how to fix that? Here's how you fix that. Knees to the head to a down opponent.

Matt Serra 56:40 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 56:42 Hey.

Joe Rogan 56:42 Then, then it's like-

Matt Serra 56:43 That'll fix that shit

Joe Rogan 56:43 ... you saw a lot of the-

Matt Serra 56:44 Yeah

Joe Rogan 56:44 ... wrestlers, then wrestlers become super fucking dangerous.

Matt Serra 56:47 Right.

Speaker 56:47 Yeah.

Matt Serra 56:47 Mark Coleman won the Grand Prix with that shit.

Joe Rogan 56:49 That's right. Yeah.

Matt Serra 56:49 Didn't you see The Smashing Machine?

Joe Rogan 56:51 Yeah, bro.

Matt Serra 56:52 Did you like The Smashing Machine?

Joe Rogan 56:53 I did. I did.

Matt Serra 56:54 It was good.

Joe Rogan 56:54 I did.

Matt Serra 56:55 I enjoyed it, too.

Joe Rogan 56:55 I thought The Rock was amazing. I thought, like, his acting, like, like, you didn't think it was The Rock, you know?

Matt Serra 57:01 I haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 57:02 Me neither.

Joe Rogan 57:02 You thought it was Mark Kerr.

Matt Serra 57:03 Really?

Joe Rogan 57:03 Like, he even got a forehead thing.

Matt Serra 57:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:05 Like, he got, like, rubber put on his forehead or whatever the fuck it is.

Matt Serra 57:07 Give you a little like...

Speaker 57:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:08 Yeah, make him more Neanderthal.

Matt Serra 57:09 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 57:10 A little Cro-Magnon.

Matt Serra 57:12 Give him a little Frankenstein forehead. It's almost scene by scene, it was almost like the same, pretty much the same exact thing as the documentary.

Joe Rogan 57:19 It was really good.

Matt Serra 57:20 The documentary, it's, it, think, it's like the same shots, the same story.

Joe Rogan 57:24 Mm-hmm.

Matt Serra 57:24 So if you've seen the documentary, which was great.

Speaker 57:27 Yeah, same here.

Joe Rogan 57:27 Mark was a great guest. I had him in the podcast. He was fun.

Matt Serra 57:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:31 It was a real- he was a really cool guest, you know?

Matt Serra 57:33 No kidding.

Joe Rogan 57:34 Yeah, he was really fun. And just a real intelligent, like, easy to talk to.

Matt Serra 57:37 Like, where does he live now? Like, I, I forget.

Speaker 57:39 I think he's, like, is it Arizona?

Joe Rogan 57:41 Bro, I saw him in early UFCs when I was a backstage interviewer. He submitted Dan Bobish with his chin to his eye.

Matt Serra 57:48 Oh.

Speaker 57:48 I remember that.

Matt Serra 57:49 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 57:50 Yeah.

Speaker 57:50 I remember that, too.

Matt Serra 57:51 That was crazy.

Speaker 57:52 Yeah.

Matt Serra 57:52 That was crazy.

Speaker 57:52 I remember when he came on the scene, well, the, the UFC scene when it, with the old Ranger Stott knee to the face knockout.

Joe Rogan 58:00 Yes! Oh, yeah, that guy.

Speaker 58:00 I remember Rip Rules, while we were about to find out. [laughs]

Matt Serra 58:04 Morty Hyenstein or something like that, the karate guy.

Joe Rogan 58:06 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 58:07 Morty Hyenstein.

Matt Serra 58:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:08 Yeah.

Matt Serra 58:08 I don't know, man. My favorite Mark Kerr fight was against Fabio Gurgel down in Brazil.

Joe Rogan 58:12 Ooh.

Speaker 58:12 That was crazy.

Matt Serra 58:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:13 That's where he got his name.

Matt Serra 58:14 Yeah, man, that's, that's my shit right there.

Speaker 58:16 Man, I, I...

Matt Serra 58:17 Fabio Gurgel was great.

Speaker 58:17 Look, I, I was a big Fabio fan and, like, I mean, if you can't have respect for that guy after that beating he took and he never, never fucking thought about quitting.

Matt Serra 58:26 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 58:26 Yeah.

Speaker 58:27 Yeah.

Matt Serra 58:27 Headbutts and everything.

Speaker 58:28 Who said yes to that?

Matt Serra 58:30 [laughs] Yeah, right.

Speaker 58:31 Like, let me pull you guys aside.

Matt Serra 58:33 [laughs]

Speaker 58:33 I'm gonna explain physics.

Matt Serra 58:34 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 58:35 Right.

Speaker 58:35 And now I need to introduce you to steroids.

Matt Serra 58:38 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 58:38 [laughs]

Speaker 58:38 Now we just need to combine physics and steroids.

Matt Serra 58:41 Yeah.

Speaker 58:41 And like, "No, you're not fighting Mark Kerr."

Matt Serra 58:43 Yeah. [laughs] If you look at the time, that's when jiu-jitsu still had that mystique about it, though.

Joe Rogan 58:47 It's true.

Matt Serra 58:47 You know?

Joe Rogan 58:48 True.

Matt Serra 58:48 Back when they, they weren't legalizing- But that kind of killed... But, like, that's when it, like, the beginning of the end of, like, the guard started for MMA.

Joe Rogan 58:55 Mm-hmm.

Matt Serra 58:55 It was like that.

Joe Rogan 58:56 Yeah.

Matt Serra 58:56 'Cause, like, those big wrestlers was just like, "Oh, you mean all I gotta do is block his hips and he can't do shit?"

Speaker 59:00 And out compete but you?

Matt Serra 59:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:01 Right.

Speaker 59:01 After that fight, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:02 Well, then there was, do you remember when Mario Sperry fought Igor Zinoviev?

Matt Serra 59:06 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 59:07 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:07 So Mario Sperry was, like, one of the first jiu-jitsu black belts to lose in MMA.

Matt Serra 59:12 That's right, yes.

Joe Rogan 59:13 'Cause we all thought jiu-jitsu black belts were invincible.

Matt Serra 59:15 Yeah.

Speaker 59:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:16 Like, and Mario Sperry was elite. He was a really good black belt.

Matt Serra 59:19 Great, yeah.

Speaker 59:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:20 And so he, he fought Zinoviev, and Zinoviev stopped him.

Matt Serra 59:23 I remember that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:24 Yeah.

Matt Serra 59:24 And Mario was doing everything right, mounting him correctly, doing...

Joe Rogan 59:27 Mm-hmm.

Matt Serra 59:27 But then he would just do one of those weird, like, super big bridges aga-

Joe Rogan 59:31 Yeah.

Matt Serra 59:31 And then his, because he had endurance and he was able to just withstand his attack, he, he ended up cutting him or something towards the end. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:38 Yeah, it was a big cut. They stopped it from a cut, right?

Matt Serra 59:40 Yeah. Speaking of old school guys, guess who was at the UFC last week? Murilo Bustamante.

Joe Rogan 59:44 Oh.

Speaker 59:45 Oh.

Matt Serra 59:45 Yes. He was, he was cornering Jose Alonso.

Joe Rogan 59:48 The only other guy to make somebody tap twice-

Matt Serra 59:49 Yes

Joe Rogan 59:49 ... in a world title defense.

Matt Serra 59:50 Yeah.

Speaker 59:50 Legend. Legend.

Joe Rogan 59:50 Made him tap twice.

Matt Serra 59:52 Yeah. He also fought 45 bit, he fought Tom Erickson-

Speaker 59:55 Tom Erickson, yeah

Matt Serra 59:55 ... for 45 minutes.

Speaker 59:56 Remember that?

Joe Rogan 59:56 Oh, yeah.

Matt Serra 59:57 Beautiful jiu-jitsu guard.

Speaker 59:57 I thought, I thought Murilo beat, uh, Chuck Liddell, too, honestly, in that fight.

Matt Serra 1:00:01 He might have, yeah. Some of the opposite-

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 He was a, he was a bad motherfucker. He was really good boxing and insane jiu-jitsu.

Matt Serra 1:00:07 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:00:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:07 But really good boxing. One of the first guys from, like, that Carlson Gracie team, along with Vitor.

Speaker 1:00:11 Good wrestler, too. Like, he had good takedowns-

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 Yeah

Speaker 1:00:14 ... you know, for a jiu-jitsu guy, too.

Matt Serra 1:00:16 Yeah. But, like, that's my point. So he's at the UFC just cornering Jose Alonso, and, like, no one knows who he is.

Speaker 1:00:22 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Wow.

Matt Serra 1:00:22 And I'm like, yo, I need to give a lesson on this guy.

Speaker 1:00:25 That's a legend.

Matt Serra 1:00:25 Like, he's one of my favorite fighters of all time.

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 Yeah.

Speaker 1:00:27 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:00:27 But no one knows who he is.

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 That's crazy.

Matt Serra 1:00:30 It's a shame.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 He's a legend. But you know, there's so many people now, it's like time just goes on and just no one cares.

Matt Serra 1:00:35 Yeah, just-

Speaker 1:00:35 What a bunch of killers Carlson had back in the day, man.

Matt Serra 1:00:38 Ooh.

Speaker 1:00:38 What a... I mean, they really did.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 Dude, I was at his school in '96 when all that was going down.

Speaker 1:00:44 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 When right before Vitor got into the UFC.

Speaker 1:00:46 Sperry, Liborio.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1:00:48 Car- Carlo Baretta.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 Yeah.

Speaker 1:00:49 Ismael.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 Carlo was training there, yeah, yeah.

Matt Serra 1:00:51 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Sergio Cohen. He had a bunch of beasts, man, and they would, we'd watch them all train together. Mario Sper- [laughs] Mario Sperry was telling us a story about, uh, how he, when he was just starting out in jiu-jitsu, he, uh, made his girlfriend sit there, and he'd just put her in triangle after triangle after triangle.

Matt Serra 1:01:07 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 She can't, she can't complain. [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:01:10 That's hysterical.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 Just watching TV, just practicing triangles on his girlfriend.

Speaker 1:01:15 That's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 She, she was-

Speaker 1:01:16 We were, we were lucky to... We were talking last night about how fortunate we were to come up when we did, you know? And, like, even back at, at Renzo's, I mean, you had Renzo.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 Yeah.

Speaker 1:01:25 You had Chyme coming through, you had Half coming through. You had Matt, you had Ricardo, you had Sean Alvarez.

Matt Serra 1:01:30 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:01:31 Like, we just had a, a ton of killers, you know? And back then, uh, it was... I, I, I always joke about the tap out shit, but

Matt Serra 1:01:39 But if you saw somebody in an airport in the '90s with a Tapout shirt on, you were like, "Where, you know, where you train?"

Joe Rogan 1:01:44 Right, right, right.

Matt Serra 1:01:44 You know? [laughs] Then now, then it went to, like, J.C. fucking Penney's, which is cool 'cause it was-

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:01:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 ... except for Average 21.

Matt Serra 1:01:51 Now it's except ... [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:01:53 But it was pretty wild. I had, uh, I was, I had some Tapout shirts. Everybody did. Right. Those guys were fun.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 Yeah, definitely.

Matt Serra 1:02:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 It was a weird time, the, that time of MMA, if you go back to, like, like, even when, like, you and I first met. It was like, when ye- what year was that?

Matt Serra 1:02:08 2001 we met.

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Crazy.

Matt Serra 1:02:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 That's crazy.

Matt Serra 1:02:10 'Cause you weren't a commentator yet, but-

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 No

Matt Serra 1:02:12 ... but I fought Kelly Dilante, and you gave me a nice shout-out. Oh, I remember Like, "We need more of that jungle jujitsu, like Matt Serra did." When you toured at Bodyshop. And I'm like, "Oh!" [laughs] They showed that up. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, that, that was, that was 2- 2001, 'cause I mailed you a shirt-

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 Yeah, that's right

Matt Serra 1:02:28 ... to thank you.

Joe Rogan 1:02:28 Nice.

Matt Serra 1:02:28 And then you called the academy, and I'm like, "Oh, what's up?"

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 That was funny, man.

Matt Serra 1:02:32 Nice.

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 Crazy.

Matt Serra 1:02:33 But jujitsu was so physical then. Like, it was a physical thing. Now it's so intellectual, and, like, these nerds think they own it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 They're aut-

Matt Serra 1:02:40 Autistic kids got a hold of jujitsu. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 Oh.

Matt Serra 1:02:42 And, and now they think- That's definitely them ... and now they think, and now they think they own it. And it's like, "Yo, what, what are you talking about?"

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 They start talking about technique.

Matt Serra 1:02:49 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 And it's, it's like they're talking chess moves.

Matt Serra 1:02:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:02:51 If you don't know the names in the ... They's like, "You don't know that?" It's like, "Dude, I know that's ... " I have, like, I, what, what's the, um-

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:02:57 ... what, when you're going for the, uh, the K ... What they call it, the K-guard?

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:03:01 I'm like, "Shit, man, I've been doing that since the '90s, man." I-

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Right.

Matt Serra 1:03:03 At first I'm like, "Well, what's the ... " They're like, "You don't know the K-guard?" I'm like ... Then they show it. I go, "Well, yeah, I, yeah. I just never called it the fucking K-guard."

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 Right. [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:03:10 Yeah. You know? But it's funny. You bring up Marillo Bustamante. We talked about Fabio Gurgel. Back then, uh, and I know jujitsu evolved, but if you take those guys, you put them in the Abu Dhabi Submission, uh, r- uh, tournament, you put them in the BJJ, IBJJF, and you put them in an MMA fight, their jujitsu's the same.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 True.

Matt Serra 1:03:27 And it carries over to all-

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:03:29 Mm-hmm ... and, and they may not win-

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 Yeah

Matt Serra 1:03:30 ... but it's, they're competitive.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 And they, and they can whip around the game there.

Matt Serra 1:03:32 Yeah, but they haven't won rounds right then. They can have it across the board-

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Yeah

Matt Serra 1:03:36 ... where someone who's used to-

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 Now, you're right

Matt Serra 1:03:38 ... to, just as used to scissoring or just used to their legs. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 No, true.

Matt Serra 1:03:42 They, that, that, that can transfer over.

Joe Rogan 1:03:45 Here's what fucks my head up. If you, gun to my head, said to me, "Who do you think has the best jujitsu in MMA right now?" My head would go, "Charles Oliveira."

Matt Serra 1:03:59 That, I was getting ready.

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 Charles Oliveira.

Matt Serra 1:04:00 That would be my g-

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 But-

Matt Serra 1:04:01 That would be my first

Joe Rogan 1:04:02 ... Islam Makhachev finished him on the ground.

Matt Serra 1:04:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 So how can I say that?

Matt Serra 1:04:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 Right?

Matt Serra 1:04:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 So it fucks my head up because I'm like, if you think about, like, a r- elite expressions of jujitsu on the ground, like, one of the most dangerous guys off his back, Oliveira.

Matt Serra 1:04:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 Oliveira's so dangerous everywhere. If he gets on top of you, you're fucked. I mean, it was just that Max Holloway's defense is so tight and he's so tough that he didn't get finished.

Matt Serra 1:04:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 A lot of athletes would've been out during that first round.

Matt Serra 1:04:25 For sure. And how, how, how crazy it was that he was able to just manhandle him and take him down. I mean, Max n- nobody took Max down like that.

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 He manhandled him.

Matt Serra 1:04:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 It was bananas. But I think Max is a guy that is like, he can fight at 45. I think it was really hard when he went up to 55 and then went down to 45. But at 45, in his prime-

Matt Serra 1:04:43 Oh, shit

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 ... it was a perfect weight class for him.

Matt Serra 1:04:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 When Oliveira was fighting at 45, he was killing himself.

Matt Serra 1:04:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:49 Like, he fought like sh- he just was fatigued easier. But then when he went up to 55, then he became Charles Oliveira, you know?

Matt Serra 1:04:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:56 It was really all at 55 where he made his mark.

Matt Serra 1:04:58 He, he tried that shit, though, with Ilia. He did try to take him down and he tried early.

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 Yeah, Ilia, Ilia is, I mean, Ilia is-

Matt Serra 1:05:05 I mean, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 ... Ilia is a different animal

Matt Serra 1:05:06 ... he is an animal.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:05:06 He's on another level. For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:05:07 He's on another level. He's like-

Matt Serra 1:05:09 Super well-rounded, and people haven't really even seen that yet.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 He's o- on another level where I can't wait for his next fights.

Matt Serra 1:05:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Like, when, when he's fighting I'm like, "What is he gonna do now?"

Matt Serra 1:05:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 Like, how, what is ... Uh, 'cause I th- he's, I think he's getting better. I think it's not ju- I think the dude is like ... Their approach to it, there's a documentary on YouTube, uh, but with the, they're, like, talking about how they break down all their fight camps and what they're doing and the different stuff that he, they train in. Like, these dudes are on another level.

Matt Serra 1:05:35 I mean, when you think about, like, if a fight between, like, Ilia and Islam were to happen, like, think about, like, the magnitude of that, of, like, not only just, like, star power, but just in terms of skill.

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 Oh my God.

Matt Serra 1:05:45 Like, breaking that down.

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 Oh my God.

Matt Serra 1:05:46 In terms of skill.

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Oh my God.

Matt Serra 1:05:47 Like, two of the best skilled fighters of all time.

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 Of all time.

Matt Serra 1:05:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:51 That would be an insane fight. And I, I just really would like it if it happened to be at 55. Like, Ilia at 170 is a little unrealistic.

Matt Serra 1:05:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. At 55 would be better.

Joe Rogan 1:06:00 Because Islam at 170 is probably walking around a buck 96.

Matt Serra 1:06:05 Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Fucking jacked.

Matt Serra 1:06:07 I think, uh, Arman should be spoken about too. He's a fucking beast.

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 100%.

Matt Serra 1:06:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 And look how he fought-

Matt Serra 1:06:12 100%. And he had a, a pretty good fight with, uh, Islam back when he ... How many years ago? Yeah, right, right. When he was, like, 21. Yeah. I mean, he was ... I mean, scrambles-

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 Although I do have to say, if, uh, the scoring was correct, I think, I think Oliveira would've beat him in that fight. 'Cause Oliveira threatened him with submissions-

Matt Serra 1:06:29 That is true

Joe Rogan 1:06:30 ... a couple times.

Matt Serra 1:06:31 That's true.

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 A couple times. Like, that to me is more valuable than j- holding a guy down.

Matt Serra 1:06:36 Did Arman threaten he had an arm choke with him or n- well, no. I think he might have. He was kind of on the run, but he was kind of on the run more often than we remember. Like, it, it-

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 Arman was?

Matt Serra 1:06:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:06:47 In terms of, like, inside the guard of Oliveira.

Joe Rogan 1:06:49 Oh, yeah.

Matt Serra 1:06:49 Yeah. Like, he was kinda, you know, he was on the run.

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 It's dangerous in there, man.

Matt Serra 1:06:52 Yeah, it's dangerous.

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 It's not like everybody else's.

Matt Serra 1:06:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:54 Like, there's only a few guys like him and, you know, Paul Craig.

Matt Serra 1:06:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 Bro, Paul Craig could latch on a fucking triangle. Like, that guy has beaten world champions.

Matt Serra 1:07:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:03 If you think about it, he beat Jamal, broke his arm.

Matt Serra 1:07:05 He beat Jamal, he beat, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:07:07 M- M- Ankalaev

Matt Serra 1:07:07 ... Ankalaev, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 Stopped him with, like, one second to go-

Matt Serra 1:07:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 ... in the third round with a triangle.

Matt Serra 1:07:12 Ankalaev, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 He might have one of the best tri- who was that one dude from back in the day that won all his fights by triangle?

Matt Serra 1:07:19 Dustin, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:07:20 No, English guy.

Matt Serra 1:07:21 Yeah. Um, ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Oh, Paul ...

Matt Serra 1:07:23 I know exactly who you're talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:07:24 Oh my God, it's gonna drive me nuts.

Matt Serra 1:07:25 The little skinny English guy.

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 Yes.

Matt Serra 1:07:26 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 He, like, was all triangles.

Matt Serra 1:07:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:28 Like 11 triangles in a row.

Matt Serra 1:07:29 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:30 He had this one move, and if he can get you to the ground-

Matt Serra 1:07:32 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 ... and latch his legs around you, you were fucksville.

Matt Serra 1:07:34 I don't know why I'm blanking.

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 Paul Sass.

Matt Serra 1:07:35 Yeah, Paul Sass. Sass.

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 Paul Sass.

Matt Serra 1:07:37 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 How it was going, Paul. Shout out to Paul Sass.Yeah, he was a beast. He get you in that triangle, you're fucked. And the, uh, Fabrício Werdum's another one, right?

Din Thomas 1:07:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:46 Yeah. I mean, he was, that, he triangled Fedor-

Din Thomas 1:07:49 I remember

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 ... when Fedor was Fedor, you know what I mean?

Din Thomas 1:07:51 I always tell people, if you wanna look at the, one of all-time greats in heavyweight, don't look at all losses and shit. Stop right here in the prime. Who has tapped out more legends than Fabrício Werdum? Minotauro, Fedor. I mean, that is crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Yeah. Yeah.

Din Thomas 1:08:06 Just those two. Cain Velasquez.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 Yeah. Right.

Din Thomas 1:08:09 He's tapped out all the legends.

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 That's true.

Din Thomas 1:08:11 And they weren't past their prime either. Fedor was s- securely-

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 Yeah, yeah

Din Thomas 1:08:16 ... in his prime-

Joe Rogan 1:08:17 100%

Din Thomas 1:08:18 ... when Fabrício tapped him.

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 I remember watching that live thinking, "Oh my God."

Din Thomas 1:08:20 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:08:21 He, he, he ran right into it. Yeah. He ran right into that. He literally did jump into it.

Din Thomas 1:08:25 Bro, brilliant. His, his jiu-jitsu was, like, scary off his back.

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 Yeah, Fedor had no respect for the guard. Yeah. Just, you know, was trying to take his head off- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... and just fed it to him. Yeah, man. You know, you can't do that with a guy like Werdum.

Din Thomas 1:08:36 Not a guy like that. That's a different level.

Joe Rogan 1:08:39 And plus, he hit Colby in the head with a boomerang so-

Din Thomas 1:08:41 Remember that? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:08:42 [laughs] There's nothing wrong with that. Give him some points for that as well.

Din Thomas 1:08:45 That, that was my favorite video of all time.

Joe Rogan 1:08:47 Yeah.

Din Thomas 1:08:47 'Cause he hit him with the boomerang and then the bag, and then Colby's reaching out for the bag. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 Yeah. You gotta give him some points for that too.

Din Thomas 1:08:53 Out of all the people that I thought I was definitely gonna see on the White House lawn, it was gonna be a Colby Covington fight. I was like, "How is he-

Joe Rogan 1:09:00 Man

Din Thomas 1:09:00 ... how did you not have a Colby Covington fight at the White House?"

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 Man, I don't know.

Din Thomas 1:09:04 He's, like, super supportive of Trump, wears Trump hats everywhere.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 Right. And he's not a fighter. That's crazy.

Din Thomas 1:09:08 They didn't get him hooked up? They didn't hook him up?

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 I don't know.

Din Thomas 1:09:10 How did that not happen?

Joe Rogan 1:09:11 I think Bo Nickal wanted to fight him. Yeah, but that's a different weight class. Bo Nickal's a big dude. He's- At 85. He's a 85-er. Yeah. He, that's a, you know, Colby's not a big 70. Is he set to fight anybody at 87? He's a great size for 70. For Colby? Yeah. No. No. I know Wyatt, Wyatt did an MMA match with him. Just him and that grappling match. Yeah. Yeah, that's gonna be interesting. Yeah, I think Chris, a little big for him for wrestling. Yeah, I think that should go well for Wyatt. Who is Joaquin fighting next? Brady, Sean Brady. Oh, that's right.

Din Thomas 1:09:38 Sean Brady.

Joe Rogan 1:09:38 Is that in Miami? No, that's in- No, that's in, uh- Jersey ... in Jersey. Is it? Yeah. Right. That's right. I'll be out in Philly next week with Brady. Shout out. Joaquin was on a tear until Kamaru got ahold of him. Yeah.

Din Thomas 1:09:48 Shout out to Brady.

Joe Rogan 1:09:49 That's why that's on his shirt.

Din Thomas 1:09:50 Of the two guys that are, like, most worthy for a shot at the welterweight title, I mean, you, you gotta think Ian Garry.

Joe Rogan 1:09:57 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Din Thomas 1:09:57 But you also gotta think Kamaru because he doesn't have much time left, and he's a legend, right? One of the greatest welterweights of all time, and then he just beats Joaquin Buckley like that?

Joe Rogan 1:10:08 Yeah.

Din Thomas 1:10:08 I mean, like, Joaquin Buckley's a fucking monster.

Joe Rogan 1:10:11 Racked out him. And Buckley was on the fast rise till Kamaru got ahold of him.

Din Thomas 1:10:14 Right, now he's that Wonder Boy. That Wonder Boy fight

Joe Rogan 1:10:16 He beat the shit out of Colby. Yeah.

Din Thomas 1:10:17 Bro.

Joe Rogan 1:10:17 Beat the shit out of Colby.

Din Thomas 1:10:18 Bro, beat the shit out of him. But Joaquin doesn't get tired either-

Joe Rogan 1:10:21 Yeah

Din Thomas 1:10:21 ... which is crazy. Like, you look at his physique-

Joe Rogan 1:10:23 Yeah, you think he'd get tired. He don't get tired

Din Thomas 1:10:24 ... like, that guy's gonna get gassed out.

Joe Rogan 1:10:25 Yeah.

Din Thomas 1:10:25 He just, his, he keeps that gas going for three fucking rounds. Full clip.

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 Yeah, believe me, I know. I've been watching him.

Din Thomas 1:10:32 Kill Keith and Kamaru. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:10:32 Right. Been watching him for a month, months now. No, Sean Brady, I think, uh- Yeah ... that's

Din Thomas 1:10:37 Old turtle shell.

Joe Rogan 1:10:38 That's my favorite. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] That package is so preposterous. Yes.

Din Thomas 1:10:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:43 He's, he's staying at that weight, right? Yeah, he's not going down. Yeah.

Din Thomas 1:10:47 What about Olberg and, uh, Jiri this weekend?

Joe Rogan 1:10:51 You know what, man? O- if you're, if you're looking at it on paper, if you, like, if you just watch their movements, Olberg is really fast. He's really accurate. Um, and he's slick, and he's a big, tall motherfucker with great skills. Jiri creates chaos.

Din Thomas 1:11:10 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:11:11 And in that chaos, you don't know exactly how someone's gonna respond when the guy's still there, when you crack him, and he's all over you, and he's doing wild shit.

Din Thomas 1:11:18 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:11:18 He's got a fucking ponytail at the top of his head.

Din Thomas 1:11:21 Ah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:21 He's a maniac. Yep. But he's not faking it.

Din Thomas 1:11:24 Oh, no. He believes everything he says.

Joe Rogan 1:11:26 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That dude, that's how that dude really lives. Yeah. Like, he really does hit trees in the woods. He goes out there with a makiwara and fucking- [laughs] He does all the hard style Japanese shit, and, you know, he spends time in the woods by himself alone. He does, uh, he swims under the ice. He does the-

Din Thomas 1:11:43 Yeah, I saw that. I actually saw a video of that.

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 Under the ice. I go, "Fuck that, dude."

Din Thomas 1:11:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:47 I mean, you have to find where the hole is, and you gotta swim. You gotta come back.

Din Thomas 1:11:50 We had some people in there too just in case he had not crazy dude.

Joe Rogan 1:11:53 Hey, listen, man, just look at that dude. His ancestors came over on a boat-

Din Thomas 1:11:58 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:11:58 ... with a skull on it, and they had fucking swords. Yeah. And they hopped off and started slicing people up.

Din Thomas 1:12:04 All them, all them guys.

Joe Rogan 1:12:05 That dude is a motherfucking Viking. Whatever he is, that war- those warrior genes, like, that's in that... That dude takes you to hell. He takes, he just can't do it with Alex.

Din Thomas 1:12:15 I mean, he guts his, he guts his way.

Joe Rogan 1:12:15 Right. That's it. That style just doesn't work with Pereira. Pereira's just-

Din Thomas 1:12:19 So that's what I'm wondering. Does he walk into one here? 'Cause he's gonna get hit. Khalil beat the living shit out of him for two rounds.

Joe Rogan 1:12:25 Mm-hmm.

Din Thomas 1:12:26 And then, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:12:28 Olberg

Din Thomas 1:12:28 ... ran out of gas.

Joe Rogan 1:12:29 Olberg's a big guy, too. Khalil's not a big, you know... If you look, if you look at him in comparison to some of the other guys in that weight class.

Din Thomas 1:12:36 No, for sure. He can make 85.

Joe Rogan 1:12:38 205. Here's, here's one that people are sleeping on, Merzenich. Yeah. That's- You think... Who?

Din Thomas 1:12:43 I'm, listen, I'm leaning Palhos, Palhos' way, I swear.

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 You, you, you, you almost sold me on that yesterday.

Din Thomas 1:12:48 I swear.

Joe Rogan 1:12:48 But Merzenich, man. Undefeated. Undefeated. 12 and 0. Let me tell you something.

Din Thomas 1:12:52 37 and fought nobody. I'm riding it.

Joe Rogan 1:12:55 Who's that? [laughs] That's true. Palhos. He put, he put Rakic to sleep, though. Oh. Yeah, I mean, he did. He put Rakic to sleep in the first round. He did. Yeah. Dude, he's slick. Uh, he does shit in there, I'm like, he calls himself The Professional, and it's like, he seems like a hit man, like some Russian hit man that you hire- Yeah, yeah ... that comes to fucking kill people.

Din Thomas 1:13:11 Well, he believes in his power, that's a fact.

Joe Rogan 1:13:13 It's not just his power, man, it's his skills. When I look at him, I'm like, "This is a smart guy." Like, he moves like a smart guy. Everything's calculated. Everything's technical. He's really hard to hit clean. He's a, he's a slick character, and he does shit, too, like he overreaches, but he overreaches, I think, on purpose to get reads off you. Mm-hmm. If he senses the guy's moving away, he'll, he'll come in with big shots if he doesn't in- to try to get a, get you to react and then counter. Like, that, that right hook that he hit him with was almost like a jab- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... that he dropped Rakic with. Yeah. Just saw the, saw this movement that Rakic kept doing over and over again, and bang. Yeah. Came in with, like, a straight right jab.

Din Thomas 1:13:51 And wait-

Joe Rogan 1:13:51 Almost like a hook jab

Din Thomas 1:13:52 ... Palhos' got a chin.

Joe Rogan 1:13:54 Look at that. Watch that againLook how slick this is.

Matt Serra 1:13:57 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:58 Boom.

Matt Serra 1:13:59 We don't-

Joe Rogan 1:13:59 Just s- he's a killer, man

Matt Serra 1:14:00 We don't know what Paul Costa's gonna look like at 205, though. He's never fought at that weight.

Joe Rogan 1:14:04 Well, didn't he once when he didn't make weight for 85 against Marvin Vettori?

Matt Serra 1:14:08 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:09 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:14:09 He forced Marvin Vettori. He was like-

Joe Rogan 1:14:11 Oh, that's right

Matt Serra 1:14:11 ... "Now this fight is at 205 now."

Joe Rogan 1:14:13 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:14:13 You remember that? Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:14:14 Izzy, Izzy fucked his mind up, I think.

Matt Serra 1:14:15 Shh. He definitely did.

Joe Rogan 1:14:17 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:14:17 I mean, he, but he looked the best he's looked his last fight. Like, he, Koplov, he just ran through him.

Joe Rogan 1:14:21 Dude, you go back to when he was, when he was walking people down, like walked down Yoel Romero.

Matt Serra 1:14:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 Paul Costa was-

Matt Serra 1:14:27 Yeah, I remember

Joe Rogan 1:14:27 ... he was a bizarre. I remember.

Matt Serra 1:14:28 I remember. Remember when he saluted Paul, uh, Yoel Romero in the middle of the fight?

Joe Rogan 1:14:31 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:14:31 That was my favorite part.

Joe Rogan 1:14:32 Right. [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:14:32 Yeah, he was gonna salute him.

Joe Rogan 1:14:33 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:14:33 Yeah, it was a good fight.

Joe Rogan 1:14:34 That was a great fight, but nobody walks down Yoel Romero like that.

Matt Serra 1:14:37 Yeah, no kidding.

Joe Rogan 1:14:37 There's that photo, that one photo of him head kicking Yoel, and Yoel's face is, like, all distorted, and you're like, "How did he take that shot?"

Matt Serra 1:14:45 It's his neck. He did... [imitates cracking]

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 Yeah, them traps.

Matt Serra 1:14:48 You know, his neck is fused.

Joe Rogan 1:14:49 Yeah, that's what I'm saying, yeah.

Matt Serra 1:14:51 It's all one.

Joe Rogan 1:14:51 It's all one thing, so it doesn't move.

Matt Serra 1:14:52 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:14:52 It's connected to his skull.

Matt Serra 1:14:54 That's crazy. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:14:55 Yeah. Isn't that nuts?

Matt Serra 1:14:57 And he's in these combat sports.

Joe Rogan 1:14:57 Look at that. Look at that photo.

Matt Serra 1:14:59 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:14:59 Bro, that, that photo's bonkers. Imagine how tough you gotta be to be Yoel Romero and take that to the head when you know your neck has been through an insane operation where you have metal connecting the fucking spine of your neck to your head.

Matt Serra 1:15:16 Just, or they implanted monster traps to hold his head on [laughs] at the same time.

Joe Rogan 1:15:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Serra 1:15:21 Like, fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:15:21 Bro, he's a, such a freak.

Matt Serra 1:15:23 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 1:15:23 He's an athletic freak. And you see he just fought Bareno.

Matt Serra 1:15:26 He's a specimen.

Joe Rogan 1:15:27 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:15:27 At 49.

Joe Rogan 1:15:28 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:15:28 And crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:15:28 A lot of people disputed the decision. They thought he should've won.

Matt Serra 1:15:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:33 In Russia.

Matt Serra 1:15:34 Yeah, I don't know. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:35 Yoel Romero's a bad motherfucker.

Matt Serra 1:15:36 Yo, in Russia done yeah. I don't know how he does it.

Joe Rogan 1:15:38 He looks great.

Matt Serra 1:15:39 Yeah, I don't know how he does it.

Joe Rogan 1:15:41 If you told me he was 32, I'd believe you.

Matt Serra 1:15:42 He's RA, did RAF as well.

Joe Rogan 1:15:46 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, who, who'd he beat, Pat Downey?

Matt Serra 1:15:49 He beat Pat Downey.

Joe Rogan 1:15:50 Who'd he beat? And then he came back and he, and he had the-

Matt Serra 1:15:51 And then he came back, but he lost the next one.

Joe Rogan 1:15:53 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:15:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:53 But he was, wrestled a legit dude.

Matt Serra 1:15:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:56 Dude, the guy that I'm most impressed with in that is Armand.

Matt Serra 1:16:00 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:00 I can't believe how good he's been as a wrestler.

Matt Serra 1:16:01 Yeah, he's been doing well.

Joe Rogan 1:16:02 Yeah. Who was the dude he tech falled?

Matt Serra 1:16:05 Giorgio.

Joe Rogan 1:16:05 Giorgi-

Matt Serra 1:16:06 Giorgio.

Joe Rogan 1:16:06 No, no, no. The, the, uh, uh, Lance.

Matt Serra 1:16:09 Oh, Lance Palmer.

Joe Rogan 1:16:10 That's right.

Matt Serra 1:16:10 Oh, Lance Palmer.

Joe Rogan 1:16:11 Yeah, Lance Palmer.

Matt Serra 1:16:11 Bro.

Joe Rogan 1:16:11 Yeah, Lance Palmer's a legit wrestler.

Matt Serra 1:16:14 Lance was a legit wrestler.

Joe Rogan 1:16:14 For sure.

Matt Serra 1:16:14 And won.

Joe Rogan 1:16:14 And Lance was like, "Oh, he's never wrestled at my level, and he's never wrestled guys at my level." [laughs] And then Armand goes out there and tech falls him.

Matt Serra 1:16:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:16:20 Bro, Armand is legit.

Matt Serra 1:16:20 Giorgio did better.

Joe Rogan 1:16:22 Yeah. But even Giorgio, like, you watch those videos that he does.

Matt Serra 1:16:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:25 Where he does, like, thou- $100 to me now.

Matt Serra 1:16:27 Yeah, a thousand or whatever.

Joe Rogan 1:16:27 Whatever it is.

Matt Serra 1:16:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:28 Yeah. He, Armand is a fucking bad man, dude.

Matt Serra 1:16:32 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:16:32 He's a bad man.

Matt Serra 1:16:33 I know it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:34 If you wanted to fight for Ilia at 55, that's a very interesting fight.

Matt Serra 1:16:38 Mm-hmm. For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:16:39 100%.

Matt Serra 1:16:39 Very interesting fight.

Joe Rogan 1:16:40 I think so.

Matt Serra 1:16:40 For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:16:41 'Cause he's hard to hit. He's very slick and technical, super flexible. Like, you ever see those weird-

Matt Serra 1:16:46 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:16:47 ... like, mobility exercises he does with twists and shit, with weights?

Matt Serra 1:16:50 I know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:51 Crazy bridges.

Matt Serra 1:16:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:52 Just crazy flexibility. He's a-

Matt Serra 1:16:54 Yeah, he's definitely in his prime, man. He can't waste his life away right now.

Joe Rogan 1:16:57 Stop headbutting people and just-

Matt Serra 1:16:58 Yeah, just do the right thing because you are in your prime right now-

Joe Rogan 1:17:01 Stop

Matt Serra 1:17:01 ... and it doesn't last forever.

Joe Rogan 1:17:01 Stop fucking around.

Matt Serra 1:17:01 He'd probably, he'd already, he might already be champ if he could keep it together outside of the cage.

Joe Rogan 1:17:06 100.

Matt Serra 1:17:06 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:17:07 Right? Like, if the, who knows what would've happened in the Oliveira fight if it was a proper fight, a five-rounder, you know?

Matt Serra 1:17:13 He's staying busy, though. It's not like he's on the couch.

Joe Rogan 1:17:15 He's staying real busy.

Matt Serra 1:17:16 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:17:16 He's doing those videos with Dana.

Matt Serra 1:17:18 He's staying in shape. That's right.

Joe Rogan 1:17:19 Yeah, yeah.

Matt Serra 1:17:19 He put Mokaya to sleep a couple weeks ago.

Joe Rogan 1:17:21 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:17:21 Yeah, I was like, oh, that was a little too much.

Joe Rogan 1:17:23 That was a lot.

Matt Serra 1:17:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:24 Mokaya's a 125er.

Matt Serra 1:17:25 And he kept it on too long.

Joe Rogan 1:17:25 Yeah. [laughs] No, that's crazy.

Matt Serra 1:17:26 But, like, he kept it, I, whenever they keep it on when the guy's already sleeping for too long, it's like, yo, what are you, what's going on here? You know he-

Joe Rogan 1:17:32 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:17:32 You gotta know he's out. What the fuck's happening?

Joe Rogan 1:17:34 Maybe some unkind words were exchanged.

Matt Serra 1:17:35 That's kind of my thought process.

Joe Rogan 1:17:37 That doesn't happen on occasion.

Matt Serra 1:17:38 I'm sure that happened.

Joe Rogan 1:17:39 And Mokaya was a hothead, right?

Matt Serra 1:17:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:41 You know?

Matt Serra 1:17:41 He's been known to say some things.

Joe Rogan 1:17:43 What did he get kicked out of the UFC for? What happened with him?

Matt Serra 1:17:46 I heard he was just, like, mean to peop- like, mean to the staff.

Joe Rogan 1:17:49 Oh.

Matt Serra 1:17:49 That's what I heard, he was just, like, mean to the staff.

Joe Rogan 1:17:51 No, I wasn't even talk- I was talking about when he did it to a streamer. I'm not talking about that fight. Oh, we're talking about... No, no, no, no, no.

Matt Serra 1:17:57 I'm talking about him doing it to, like, just putting a, a, somebody to sleep, a friends, the guys with his other-

Joe Rogan 1:18:03 I don't think I saw that

Matt Serra 1:18:04 ... he was, he was him on a couch, and he put the guy to sleep. It's just a regular Joe.

Joe Rogan 1:18:08 Armand did this?

Matt Serra 1:18:08 Yeah, man. Jamie. No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:18:11 [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:18:12 Sorry, Jamie. Not pulling you into work.

Joe Rogan 1:18:13 Jamie.

Matt Serra 1:18:14 But, uh, yo, yo, he put him to sleep, and he held that shit on for an extra h- too many seconds. Look at this. Watch this.

Joe Rogan 1:18:22 Oh.

Matt Serra 1:18:23 No, no, I'm telling you. Uh, you tell me if you think it's too long.

Joe Rogan 1:18:26 That guy's neck makes me sad.

Matt Serra 1:18:28 But now look. Now-

Joe Rogan 1:18:29 To know that he's gonna do that to him.

Matt Serra 1:18:31 Now look. Can you host this?

Joe Rogan 1:18:31 And I'm gonna be able to see this.

Matt Serra 1:18:35 Now, ready? Let's see. Now he's out, right?

Speaker 1:18:39 He lasted a long time.

Matt Serra 1:18:40 Yo, let go, man.

Joe Rogan 1:18:42 Yo, yo, yo.

Matt Serra 1:18:43 What are you doing?

Joe Rogan 1:18:43 What the fuck?

Matt Serra 1:18:43 Look, look, he's out already. Like, I mean, for how long?

Joe Rogan 1:18:45 Oh, that's really crazy.

Matt Serra 1:18:45 Been out.

Speaker 1:18:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:46 That's really fucked.

Matt Serra 1:18:47 I mean, you a, you a, you a killer.

Speaker 1:18:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:49 That's really crazy.

Matt Serra 1:18:50 Yeah, that was a-

Joe Rogan 1:18:51 That's so unnecessary.

Matt Serra 1:18:52 That's what I'm saying, man.

Speaker 1:18:53 Never-

Joe Rogan 1:18:53 What the fuck? Yeah, that's, I, that's a lot worse than I thought it was gonna be.

Matt Serra 1:18:56 Yeah, Jesus.

Joe Rogan 1:18:57 Yeah, sorry, guys. I hate to bring the room down, but I'm- [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:18:59 Jesus. That's, the crazy thing is Armand knows he was out right away.

Joe Rogan 1:19:02 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:19:02 Right? You know?

Joe Rogan 1:19:02 Dude, that's what I'm talking about. No.

Matt Serra 1:19:04 Also, that guy's neck looks like it's never been choked. It's a-

Joe Rogan 1:19:06 [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:19:07 I felt sad for what he was gonna do to it when I saw his neck.

Joe Rogan 1:19:09 He's a skinny little neck.

Matt Serra 1:19:10 I was like, his neck is making me feel sad 'cause I know that's gonna hurt. That fucking gorilla, that dude's got a clamp on him, man.

Joe Rogan 1:19:17 Little fucker's having soup for a week after that. [laughs]

Matt Serra 1:19:19 Yeah, right?

Joe Rogan 1:19:20 It's a problem.

Matt Serra 1:19:21 Armand's fucking grip is so incredible, man. I'm just very impressed with him, man. Very impressed with his grappling. I just wish he could keep it together.

Joe Rogan 1:19:29 Yeah. I mean, he, I mean, his striking's not bad neither.

Matt Serra 1:19:31 Yeah, bro.

Joe Rogan 1:19:31 Like, he's okay.

Matt Serra 1:19:32 His first fight with Islam was very close.

Joe Rogan 1:19:34 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:19:34 Very close. First fight in the UFC.

Joe Rogan 1:19:36 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:19:36 I don't even think he got a full camp.

Joe Rogan 1:19:38 Probably not. I don't-

Matt Serra 1:19:39 I think it was a short notice fight.

Joe Rogan 1:19:41 Yeah. Nice.

Matt Serra 1:19:41 And he fought very well. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:19:43 He's-

Matt Serra 1:19:43 He's at the, it's just, like, crazy that fuck-ups have kept him from being at the top. I mean, the w- the missing the title fight was the big one.

Joe Rogan 1:19:49 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:19:50 That was the craziest one. Like, his back hurt in the locker room.

Joe Rogan 1:19:52 The day before. Like, come on.

Matt Serra 1:19:54 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:19:55 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:19:55 And you make a not so Moicano go out there and, you know, not, and not having prepared for him.

Joe Rogan 1:20:00 Right.

Matt Serra 1:20:00 He's gonna-

Speaker 1:20:01 McConnell looked good against Duncan, man

Joe Rogan 1:20:02 Money looked good

Speaker 1:20:03 McConnell

Joe Rogan 1:20:03 Money looked good

Speaker 1:20:04 Money looked, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:20:05 Money looked good

Speaker 1:20:05 Money was getting some jab on him. Boop, boop. Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:20:07 I like when he gets on that mic too, he starts talking shit

Speaker 1:20:09 Yeah, he's [laughs]

Guest 1:20:09 He's awesome

Speaker 1:20:10 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:20:11 He's funny

Guest 1:20:11 I wish he would've started talking shit even earlier. Like, I always liked the guy, but he's fucking hilarious

Joe Rogan 1:20:15 He might be the best in the business right now

Guest 1:20:17 Yeah, he's, he's funny, man

Joe Rogan 1:20:18 Like, currently

Speaker 1:20:18 He's just not getting enough mic time

Joe Rogan 1:20:19 He's not getting enough, yeah

Speaker 1:20:21 He needs more mic time. When he gets on the mic time, "Money fucking McConnell"

Joe Rogan 1:20:24 [laughs]

Guest 1:20:25 It's hysterical

Speaker 1:20:26 Their podcast, he's good, you know, he's good on there with him and I f- think Gilbert, you know, they all fucking bullshit, it's pretty good

Joe Rogan 1:20:31 Well, that was the thing, he's, he's doing some streams on, in... He's doing them in English and in Portuguese, but the Portuguese is doing better for him

Guest 1:20:37 Oh, okay

Joe Rogan 1:20:38 And he's like, "I'm making money off YouTube now. Like, so I don't care anymore"

Guest 1:20:42 Yeah, he's like-

Joe Rogan 1:20:42 "Like, I, I'm, I have my money. Like, I have a, a big stream of revenue coming in from YouTube"

Guest 1:20:46 "Subscribe to my channel, motherfucker"

Joe Rogan 1:20:48 So he's like, "Fucking pay me, motherfucker"

Guest 1:20:50 [laughs]

Speaker 1:20:51 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:20:51 He's a character

Guest 1:20:52 He's awesome. You need that. You need some personalities in that fight

Joe Rogan 1:20:54 Fuck yeah. He's good too, remember?

Guest 1:20:55 Cool

Joe Rogan 1:20:56 Like, his, his fight with, uh, Benoit Saint Denis?

Guest 1:20:58 Oh, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:20:59 Right?

Guest 1:21:00 He, he murked him

Joe Rogan 1:21:01 Right?

Guest 1:21:01 He murked him

Joe Rogan 1:21:02 And he, Saint Denis was on his way to a potential-

Guest 1:21:03 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:21:03 ... future title shot

Guest 1:21:05 That looks real good. That win looks real good

Joe Rogan 1:21:06 Real good, real good

Guest 1:21:07 Yeah. What did-

Joe Rogan 1:21:07 You s- you can't judge him on that short notice shit

Guest 1:21:09 I know

Speaker 1:21:10 What do you guys think of, uh, Hokke's shtick?

Joe Rogan 1:21:13 He's so fun

Speaker 1:21:14 Hokke

Guest 1:21:14 You think it's fun?

Joe Rogan 1:21:15 I think it's fun

Guest 1:21:16 I, man-

Speaker 1:21:16 He's horrible

Guest 1:21:16 ... I don't get it, man. I don't get it

Joe Rogan 1:21:18 [laughs]

Guest 1:21:18 I don't get it. Like, what are we talking about?

Speaker 1:21:20 Well, look, I'm all for talking shit, but-

Joe Rogan 1:21:22 Heavyweight, beast

Speaker 1:21:22 ... it's not, it's not witty. It's not-

Joe Rogan 1:21:24 Beast heavyweight

Speaker 1:21:25 ... like, it ain't funny, it ain't witty. It's looks like he's trying too hard

Joe Rogan 1:21:28 Exactly. I love it

Guest 1:21:29 [laughs] No, I don't get it

Joe Rogan 1:21:30 He's like a pro wrestler. It's like pro wrestling

Guest 1:21:31 I thought he might be worse

Joe Rogan 1:21:32 He's a smart dude. Bro, you talk to that guy, he's a smart dude. He knows what he's doing. He's being a goof. And w- here's the thing about people that act really goofy and stupid, you kind of, you go, "Okay, ain't shit." Like, y- they can trick you. They can trick you

Speaker 1:21:46 Do you think he's gonna beat Curtis?

Joe Rogan 1:21:47 I don't know, man. Curtis is a lot

Speaker 1:21:49 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:21:49 You know, it's a big step up

Speaker 1:21:50 Especially this early in his career

Joe Rogan 1:21:51 Curtis has a lot of power. He's a big fucking dude

Speaker 1:21:53 He's gonna be a better wrestler probably

Joe Rogan 1:21:55 Got a lot of MMA experience

Guest 1:21:57 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:21:57 But Hokke's a hard dude to solve. He's a really good wrestler, and he's fucking hyper aggressive, and he's got hands

Guest 1:22:03 Yeah, he's fast too. He's got good pace too

Joe Rogan 1:22:04 He can throw some good strikes

Speaker 1:22:04 He's definitely a-

Joe Rogan 1:22:05 He's fast

Speaker 1:22:06 ... he's athletic

Joe Rogan 1:22:07 He's, he's a, one of the guys that I have my eye on, like, okay, this, this-

Speaker 1:22:09 Do you think he can make 205, or you think he should... I mean, well, heavyweight's light, so-

Joe Rogan 1:22:13 Perhaps, because-

Speaker 1:22:14 ... maybe stay there

Joe Rogan 1:22:15 But really we're just waiting for Gable

Speaker 1:22:17 Yeah

Guest 1:22:18 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:18 Right? We're, we're waiting

Speaker 1:22:19 He's getting r- Romanov I think is wrestling him in-

Joe Rogan 1:22:22 Yeah

Guest 1:22:23 RFA

Joe Rogan 1:22:23 I would not let him do that. I'd be like, "What if you blow your ACL out?"

Guest 1:22:25 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:26 "What are you, crazy? Why are you doing this? You're gonna be the heavyweight champion of the UFC"

Guest 1:22:29 They gotta be paying him something, but, uh-

Speaker 1:22:30 And Romanov's a big dude, man

Joe Rogan 1:22:32 Yeah. Dude-

Guest 1:22:32 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:33 ... I mean, look, I think Gable, I think he'll be fine. But when you think of guys that are like a Mike Tyson in MMA, like when Mike Tyson was coming up, that's what I, what I think of when I see him

Guest 1:22:43 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:44 I'm like, how do you deal with that?

Guest 1:22:45 Right

Joe Rogan 1:22:45 How the fuck do you deal with that? He moves like a cat. He's 240 pounds. Olympic gold medalist. And he can KO you

Speaker 1:22:51 And then you got the smartest guy in his corner

Joe Rogan 1:22:53 And he's got Jon Jones as a mentor

Guest 1:22:54 Yeah [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:22:55 Are you fucking crazy?

Speaker 1:22:56 Fight IQ, Jon's, you know, he's-

Joe Rogan 1:22:58 The highest there is

Speaker 1:22:58 ... one of the smartest guys

Joe Rogan 1:23:00 Yeah. You got that guy in your corner, and everybody's saying... I mean, he's one of the only guys that isn't even in the UFC yet that I had him on my podcast

Guest 1:23:07 Hmm

Joe Rogan 1:23:08 I was like, "I gotta talk to you"

Speaker 1:23:08 I mean, he's accomplished, I think, enough anyway

Joe Rogan 1:23:11 Fuck yeah

Speaker 1:23:11 He's already a fucking Olympic gold medalist, NCAA champion

Joe Rogan 1:23:15 How old is he? He's young

Speaker 1:23:15 Gotta be mid-20s

Joe Rogan 1:23:17 Oh, wow

Guest 1:23:17 He's young. He's young. And he, they're doing it smart. You know, they gave him, um, one of those, uh, what are they called? Dirty boxing

Joe Rogan 1:23:23 Yeah, yeah

Guest 1:23:23 Dirty boxing fight

Joe Rogan 1:23:24 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

Guest 1:23:24 The one where he jumped it

Speaker 1:23:25 Dude, did you see him jump the rope?

Joe Rogan 1:23:26 Jumped over the rope like it was nothing

Speaker 1:23:28 Fucking landed on... It was pretty sick

Joe Rogan 1:23:29 He, he jumped-

Speaker 1:23:30 He's such an athlete

Joe Rogan 1:23:30 ... just stood there and leapt over the ropes after he won

Guest 1:23:33 Yeah, just jumped over it

Joe Rogan 1:23:34 And landed perfectly

Guest 1:23:34 No

Speaker 1:23:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:23:36 Yes. Like the Hulk

Speaker 1:23:37 Dude, after [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:38 [laughs]

Guest 1:23:39 Wow

Speaker 1:23:39 When he w- he won the NCAA championships, like he can do like round offs and-

Joe Rogan 1:23:43 Bro

Speaker 1:23:43 ... like this shit, like literally boom, boom, boom like a gymnast. It's fucking crazy

Joe Rogan 1:23:47 And I guarantee you that attribute, that's, you attribute to the speed that he has, and covering distance. He's dangerous, man. Watch this. Watch when he goes over this rope.

Guest 1:23:56 Watch this

Joe Rogan 1:23:56 This is crazy. Damn

Guest 1:23:59 That's BJ Penn jumping out of the pool right there [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:24:01 Exactly

Speaker 1:24:01 I mean, that is crazy

Guest 1:24:03 Oh, he does, but he just, he just stuck the landing and started twerking

Joe Rogan 1:24:07 Effortlessly. He's a monster, dude. Real hard problem for people to solve

Speaker 1:24:11 Anybody that wrestled named Gable, you better fucking be good

Joe Rogan 1:24:13 Yeah. And named after Dan Gable

Speaker 1:24:15 Yeah, named after Dan Gable

Joe Rogan 1:24:16 Yeah. So he's been wrestling since he's a toddler

Guest 1:24:20 Oof

Joe Rogan 1:24:20 And he's just such a fucking athlete, and so smart, just d- dedicated. Dude, they're doing it smart too. They're not just jumping him into the UFC right away. He's getting famous outside the UFC-

Guest 1:24:30 That's the way to do it, for sure

Joe Rogan 1:24:32 ... before he even gets there. That way you-

Guest 1:24:33 For sure

Joe Rogan 1:24:33 ... go, "Huh, huh, huh"

Speaker 1:24:33 You try to bring them along as much as you can

Joe Rogan 1:24:36 Yeah, fuck your 10 and 10. Come on, son

Guest 1:24:38 Well, when they sign him, they gotta give, they're gonna give him more than that

Joe Rogan 1:24:41 Rolap him, rolap him, brain struck. But the thing is, you don't-

Speaker 1:24:42 Shit, he ain't getting that

Joe Rogan 1:24:43 Some people are of the opinion that you don't wanna give a young fighter too much money early, because it'll ruin their motivation. And I'm like-

Guest 1:24:50 There's, I mean, there's truth in that, but I mean, it's not, who's that for you to say, though?

Joe Rogan 1:24:53 That's, exactly. You know what I'm saying? Like, I want my money

Guest 1:24:55 Exactly. Exactly

Joe Rogan 1:24:55 Yeah. You don't get to determine that. I want my money

Guest 1:24:57 Right

Speaker 1:24:57 Guess what? I think the cream will still rise to the top. I think the guys that are dedicated, that have a lot, like Floyd Mayweather, when he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars, would still never drink and-

Guest 1:25:06 Yeah

Speaker 1:25:07 ... run home from the club

Guest 1:25:08 From the club [laughs]

Speaker 1:25:09 There are people driving his Rolls Royce-

Joe Rogan 1:25:10 He's so crazy

Speaker 1:25:11 ... and he's running behind it

Guest 1:25:12 Yeah. I mean, look at, look at Armand, man. That guy's got money.

Joe Rogan 1:25:15 Yeah

Guest 1:25:15 He doesn't give a shit

Joe Rogan 1:25:16 He's got a private jet

Guest 1:25:17 Yeah, he's just-

Speaker 1:25:18 Armand's got a private jet?

Joe Rogan 1:25:19 At least he's always on a private jet. Seems like he owns it

Speaker 1:25:21 Damn. Jesus

Guest 1:25:22 Yeah, I think he's got some cash in it

Joe Rogan 1:25:23 His family has like tons of money

Guest 1:25:25 Yeah. But he still has the desire to be the best

Joe Rogan 1:25:27 Yeah, exactly

Guest 1:25:28 You know what I mean? It's either in you or it's not with that, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:25:31 I think he got-

Speaker 1:25:31 Maybe, maybe that's why he can't get his attitude together too, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:25:34 Perhaps, right, he doesn't need it

Guest 1:25:36 Yeah. A bit spoiled in that way, right?

Joe Rogan 1:25:38 Yeah. I mean, he's-

Speaker 1:25:38 Who's disciplining him? You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:25:40 Yeah

Speaker 1:25:40 He runs his town, I'm sure

Joe Rogan 1:25:42 What do you guys think about Khamzat and Strickland?

Guest 1:25:45 I, that's, well, let me tell you. This comes down, this comes down to Strickland's motivation

Din Thomas 1:25:51 Well, I mean, he gotta be fucking motivated.

Joe Rogan 1:25:53 Yeah, I was gonna say, you better fucking get mad at him.

Din Thomas 1:25:55 How many more shots is he gonna get in the title?

Matt Serra 1:25:55 Yeah, but I mean, he's worked with him before. I mean, they, I know they say that Khamzat submitted him, but if you hear Strickland talk about it, they were doing like positional rounds-

Joe Rogan 1:26:04 Yeah, bashtake drills

Matt Serra 1:26:04 ... when y'all started on the bottom.

Joe Rogan 1:26:05 Yeah, he started on his back.

Matt Serra 1:26:06 I mean, come on.

Joe Rogan 1:26:07 Exactly.

Matt Serra 1:26:07 But I think when they moved around, I think, uh, he feels pretty confident with it. He's a hard guy to keep down, Sean.

Joe Rogan 1:26:13 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:26:13 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:26:14 Cardio is gonna be on point

Matt Serra 1:26:16 ... who, who made, who made Khamzat look human? Gilbert Burns, Kamaru Usman. I mean, they made him look human, you know? And Dragus, again, not, you don't wanna see that rematch.

Joe Rogan 1:26:25 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:26:25 But-

Joe Rogan 1:26:26 Take the fifth round

Matt Serra 1:26:26 ... in the fifth, but in that fifth round, he, he did get into some decent positions. He just got reversed right away. I mean, Sean, if there's any bit of blood in the water, he's fucking a finisher. He's, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:26:38 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:26:38 He'll stay on him or if he's hurt at all, he's durable.

Joe Rogan 1:26:42 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:26:42 I mean, a- and everybody's saying how underrated his grappling is, the guys that are working with him. So I, I mean, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:26:48 That's all I've heard too, and he's so hard to hit, man.

Matt Serra 1:26:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:50 He's got a weird style. It's very weird.

Matt Serra 1:26:53 Right. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:26:53 It fucks you up.

Matt Serra 1:26:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:54 And he's really good at moving back away from shots and countering.

Matt Serra 1:26:57 He's circling out while the hands are in your face too.

Joe Rogan 1:26:59 Yeah, it's weird.

Matt Serra 1:27:00 He also throws like looping shots on purpose sometimes. Like, you would think it's bad technique, but he's like finding a way around your guard.

Joe Rogan 1:27:08 Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:27:08 And he's catching you with weird stuff, and his fucking jab is on point.

Joe Rogan 1:27:11 But that's-

Matt Serra 1:27:12 That fluffy fist

Joe Rogan 1:27:12 ... was you, did you, were you there at the f-

Matt Serra 1:27:14 No.

Joe Rogan 1:27:14 Was you calling that one?

Matt Serra 1:27:14 No. No, I wasn't calling that.

Joe Rogan 1:27:15 I was there for that, and you could hear it.

Matt Serra 1:27:17 Shing.

Joe Rogan 1:27:17 Like, you don't always hear that.

Matt Serra 1:27:19 Yeah, he was mashing fluffy.

Joe Rogan 1:27:19 You, you could hear the thud in his jab when Fluffy was blocking him.

Matt Serra 1:27:24 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:27:24 And it was hard. It was heavy.

Matt Serra 1:27:25 Yeah, he was mixing his kicks in there well.

Joe Rogan 1:27:26 Yeah.

Matt Serra 1:27:26 He's gonna have to watch that thing with Khamzat.

Joe Rogan 1:27:27 And he wasn't getting hit, man. The thing about him, if you, if you watch him when he's on point, he's so fucking hard to hit. He just fucked up with Alex.

Matt Serra 1:27:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27:36 Like, you just can't make any mistakes with Alex.

Matt Serra 1:27:37 So it, it seems like everybody fucks up with Alex.

Joe Rogan 1:27:40 Yeah, he's, he's a freak.

Matt Serra 1:27:41 [laughs]

Din Thomas 1:27:41 Yeah, he doesn't negotiate with you.

Joe Rogan 1:27:43 Right.

Din Thomas 1:27:43 He's just like, "You fuck up, it's over."

Joe Rogan 1:27:44 Do you, do you think that, um, uh, do you think that translates to heavyweight with Gane? What's that?