Dan Hardy on Joe Rogan: Why Refs Miss the Fencing Response

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 2:33

   Meteorite necklace, fight memorabilia, and a blood-stained UFC canvas

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music]

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      And we up.

   3. DHDan Hardy0:13

      We're rolling.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      My man.

   5. DHDan Hardy0:14

      How are you?

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you, brother.

   7. DHDan Hardy0:15

      Great to see you, man.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      What is this around the neck? What is that?

   9. DHDan Hardy0:18

      Oh, this is, uh, moldavite. Have you heard of moldavite before?

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       No.

   11. DHDan Hardy0:21

       So, a meteorite hit in the Czech Republic millions of years ago, and the, the particular tektite that was created from the earth matter falling back down to the, the ground, uh, became moldavite. And it's... Most tektites are, like, a black or a gr- a brown, but moldavite's green. Let me show you.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Oh.

   13. DHDan Hardy0:42

       It's really interesting.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Oh.

   15. DHDan Hardy0:43

       And it's just... Hold it up to-

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Jamie's got some on the screen already.

   17. DHDan Hardy0:46

       Oh, there we go. Hold it up to the light.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Whoa. Oh, that's fucking dope. So it's basically like nuclear glass.

   19. DHDan Hardy0:53

       Exactly that, yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       Like, the same type of... Wow.

   21. DHDan Hardy0:56

       And then that's the case my wife had made for me, and it's wrapped in an old chain that belonged to my dad.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Oh, that's so dope.

   23. DHDan Hardy1:02

       So... Yeah, keep it with me all the time.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Yeah, that's fucking cool, man.

   25. DHDan Hardy1:05

       I used to have a piece in, um, you know the old Thai amulets with the little-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       Mm-hmm

   27. DHDan Hardy1:09

       ... the little bronze. I, I used to have one in that. Took it out. Um, I, I put it... I put the... took the Buddha out and put a piece of moldavite in it wrapped in a piece of UFC canvas.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       Ooh.

   29. DHDan Hardy1:19

       And I wore it just all the time. But then my wife upgraded me, as she tries to do all the time.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       So the UFC gave you a chunk of canvas?
3. 2:33 – 16:24

   The Herb Dean confrontation: what happened on Fight Island and why Hardy spoke up

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:33

      Dude, what happened with you and the UFC? Like, I don't know the story.

   2. DHDan Hardy2:38

      I don't-

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:38

      I know you got into it with Herb Dean-

   4. DHDan Hardy2:41

      Yeah

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:41

      ... about a stoppage, a late stoppage.

   6. DHDan Hardy2:43

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:44

      And you, you were upset. This was during COVID, right?

   8. DHDan Hardy2:48

      Yeah, this was, I think it was Fight Island 3. Um, and it was, it was the second fight of the night where it happened. There was a heavyweight that had gone down and just take, just took a bunch too many shots before the fight was stopped. But the, the Jai Herbert/Francisco Trinaldo one was the, the one where you heard me shout up and yell, "Stop the fight." Um, and it was just a, it was a weird circumstance. And look, you know, caveat, Herb's a great referee. He's refereed me a lot. But every now and then, people do make mistakes. And in Fight Island, everyone was tired. It was quiet in the arena as well, so you can... I mean, you can hear me yelling. It wasn't the first time I'd done it, though. I yelled at him in Moscow for a CB Dollaway fight. And it's... [sighs] The thing is, there's a point where I'm there for the knockouts, I'm there for the blood, but I'm also there to make sure that once it's done, it's done-

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:39

      Right

   10. DHDan Hardy3:39

       ... and those fighters are protected.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       Right.

   12. DHDan Hardy3:41

       You know? And the way that, that, that Jai Herbert fell, it was just... At... You j- you get the reads. You know it.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:48

       Yeah, yeah.

   14. DHDan Hardy3:48

       You see him fall, and you're like, "Man, there's something not right about the way that he's fallen." And then as he landed, he was looking up at the lighting rig, but his arms were kinda stretched out.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       So he was gone.

   16. DHDan Hardy3:59

       He was gone. He was out of it. And then there was this... And I think, of course, because it was quarantine times, it was silent in there.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:06

       Mm.

   18. DHDan Hardy4:06

       The time, it was like you could hear a heartbeat in the air. [mimics heartbeat] And there was just this moment where Trinaldo stood over him and looked at Herb, and Jai's still on the floor, kinda not fully conscious, and Trinaldo just, just started cracking him with more shots. And that was the point where I stood up straight away, and I'm yelling, and Paul Felder was doing the same thing next to me. You actually see Herb look at me through the cage and point at me and tell me to shut up. The thing that annoyed me about it was the miscommunication about what had happened, because the message that got back to Dana and everybody at the top was that I left my commentary desk and went over, and I was stood outside the cage, and I wasn't. Herb came to me. So, like, I'm at my desk. We've got this piece of plexiglass, 'cause it's all COVID protocols.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:54

       Hilarious, the plexiglass. [laughs]

   20. DHDan Hardy4:55

       Right? That stopped everything, didn't it? And then, and then we had another desk in front of that. So Herb's basically... And Herb's doesn't move very quickly most of the time. He's a big old boy, and... but he was moving at pace towards me. So I stood up, took my headset off, and put them down, or had them in my hand. And he came over, and he started yelling at me. And, you know, "You stay out of it. You can't be shouting," and this and that. And that's where you see me go. That was two times. It's the second time of the night. Um, after the... I mean, as it's going on, and this was when we're not doing interviews in the cage as well, right?

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:29

       Mm.

   22. DHDan Hardy5:29

       So I'm standing up-

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:31

       Also hilarious.

   24. DHDan Hardy5:31

       Also hilarious, yeah. [laughs] So-

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:32

       Kinda just breathing at each other, sweating and bleeding on each other

   26. DHDan Hardy5:35

       ... I know. And we're shaking hands in the hotel and everything-

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:37

       [laughs] Fucking gross

   28. DHDan Hardy5:38

       ... and it, it was kind of odd. But because I'm not going into the cage, I'm now turning around, and my interview camera's behind me. So basically, what the UFC wanted me to do when Herb's marching over to me was to stand up, turn my back on him, and put my headset on. Me as a martial artist, I'm not gonna turn my back on someone when they're moving at me with the kind of pace that he was. So I, I, I... Everything got a bit delayed because I was having an interact with- interaction with Herb.As soon as the event was over and I was on my way over to the ESPN desk, Herb and I bumped into each other, and we had just had a, a brief minute conversation. Everything was cool. I said, "Look, I respect you as a referee. You left that one too late. There was no doubt, and it was the second one of the night." And there are other instances where it's happened, right? Nobody's perfect. I would make mistakes as well, of course.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:26

       Very difficult job.

   30. DHDan Hardy6:27

       Very, very difficult job. The thing that annoyed me, though... And for me, it was done then. When I got backstage, someone from the production team confronted me about approaching Herb. I tried to make sure that the narrative was set correctly, that he actually came over to me. Um, but that never got escalated up the chain.
4. 16:24 – 21:44

   Backstage fallout, misinformation, and the removed YouTube breakdown

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:24

      Who was the referee with Anderson Silva and Michael Bisping?

   2. DHDan Hardy16:28

      Oh, that's a good question.

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:29

      'Cause that was a weird one, right?

   4. DHDan Hardy16:31

      That, that-

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:31

      That fight should've been over.

   6. DHDan Hardy16:33

      Yeah. That-

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:33

      By Anderson hits him with a flying knee and then hops on top of the cage-

   8. DHDan Hardy16:37

      Yeah

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:37

      ... and they didn't stop the fight. Was that Herb?

   10. DHDan Hardy16:40

       It might have been. It might have been. Look, the thing is, I mean-

   11. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       Can you find that out, Jamie, please?

   12. DHDan Hardy16:44

       Herb's refereed me a bunch of times, and I, and I like Herb, but-

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:46

       But that obviously was Anderson's-

   14. DHDan Hardy16:47

       We make mistakes, right?

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       ... beef. That was Anderson's issue.

   16. DHDan Hardy16:50

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:50

       Anderson should've followed up until the referee stops it.

   18. DHDan Hardy16:53

       Absolutely.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:54

       But you could've easily said, "This fight's over." I mean, yep.

   20. DHDan Hardy16:59

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       That's Herb.

   22. DHDan Hardy17:00

       Yeah. [laughs]

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       That's a, a crazy situation. So Michael, I think, had lost his mouthpiece.

   24. DHDan Hardy17:06

       Yes.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:06

       And this is also-

   26. DHDan Hardy17:08

       And he was pointing at it

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:08

       ... when Michael was blind in his right eye.

   28. DHDan Hardy17:10

       Yes.

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:11

       Right? So you have to take this into consideration. So Michael loses his mouthpiece, and at some point in time, he points like that he wants his mouthpiece back.

   30. DHDan Hardy17:22

       And look at the time. We're into the last-
5. 21:44 – 23:56

   Refereeing edge cases: Bisping–Silva, Cerrone–Masvidal, and when to stop fights

   1. DHDan Hardy21:44

      And I'm, I'm okay with the debate about it. Like, doing the breakdown of the Jai Herbert finish, I learned something really important, which I don't know is... I, I've asked lots of referees, and most of them have not heard about it. Fencing response, right? Have you heard of this?

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:57

      No.

   3. DHDan Hardy21:57

      It's a concussion symptom.

   4. JRJoe Rogan21:59

      Hmm.

   5. DHDan Hardy21:59

      And it's, it's a weird thing. In a newborn baby, when you turn their head to the side, their arms come up like a boxer.

   6. JRJoe Rogan22:04

      [laughs] Really?

   7. DHDan Hardy22:05

      Right? It's a weird... I don't know exactly where it comes from, but it, but it's something that happens when people get concussed.

   8. JRJoe Rogan22:10

      Oh.

   9. DHDan Hardy22:10

      Like, you will have seen this before in K-1. There was a really famous one where a guy gets kicked in the head, and as he's going down-

   10. JRJoe Rogan22:16

       You see it in football a lot.

   11. DHDan Hardy22:17

       Yeah, you see it in football a lot.

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:18

       So there's one with Marlon Moraes, yeah.

   13. DHDan Hardy22:21

       Yeah, look. See, arms go out straight.

   14. JRJoe Rogan22:22

       But I have seen that, yeah.

   15. DHDan Hardy22:23

       But-

   16. JRJoe Rogan22:24

       You've seen a lot of that

   17. DHDan Hardy22:25

       ... you want, you want the judges to, you want the referees to know about fencing response, to be able to recognize all of the different, um, uh, tells of a concussion.

   18. JRJoe Rogan22:33

       Mm-hmm.

   19. DHDan Hardy22:34

       Right? So, and I didn't know about fencing response until after the Jai Herbert fight. But I had, in my video that was taken down, I had lots and lots of different versions of fencing response, from K-1 to football to rugby, all kinds of stuff.

   20. JRJoe Rogan22:47

       Hmm.

   21. DHDan Hardy22:47

       It's a tell of concussion, right? Like, consciousness is not removed immediately with every punch, is it? Like, you've got a, everything's on a spectrum. You're either completely conscious or completely unconscious, but the window in which the fight needs to be stopped is probably 5% or 10% towards the end of that spectrum, right? The point where someone's unable to defend themself-

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:07

       Mm-hmm

   23. DHDan Hardy23:07

       ... or not intelligently defend themselves.

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:09

       And it's very subjective.

   25. DHDan Hardy23:11

       It's very, very subjective.

   26. JRJoe Rogan23:11

       And the problem is, like, when a referee stops too early, it's very frustrating. And we have seen many instances. And then we've also seen some instances where it looked like a fight could easily be stopped, and the fighter comes back and wins. Frankie Edgar/Gray Maynard.

   27. DHDan Hardy23:28

       What a f- what, I mean, fights.

   28. JRJoe Rogan23:30

       [laughs]

   29. DHDan Hardy23:30

       What great fights.

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:30

       Crazy fights.
6. 23:56 – 32:00

   Concussion tells and the “fencing response” concept

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:56

      If that. You know? And he was just fast, and because of that, he was very durable. And this is a thing that we need to... I mean, I fucking hate weight cutting. I hate it so bad.

   2. DHDan Hardy24:07

      Me too.

   3. JRJoe Rogan24:07

      I really do. I think it's, it, I think it's sanctioned cheating. I think we should've figured out a way to eliminate it a long time ago. But you know, honestly, when I watch ONE FC, I don't think they've figured out a way to do it either. Like, it's not, it's almost like it's ingrained in the cultureTo-

   4. DHDan Hardy24:24

      Yeah

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:24

      ... to the point where I don't know other than, like, random USADA-style weigh-ins. You know what I mean? Instead of a drug test, like, "Hey, Dan, get on the scale." "Oh, but I've been eating." "I don't give a fuck. Get on the scale. Like, what do you weigh? You, you're fighting 155. You weigh 190. This is crazy." "Oh, no, I'm, uh, just four weeks into camp. You know, the next five weeks I really tighten up my diet." "Get the fuck out of here, bitch. You're huge."

   6. DHDan Hardy24:51

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:51

      "You're way too big for 155."

   8. DHDan Hardy24:53

      Yeah. I mean, l- well, look at Anthony Johnson, you know, one of-

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:56

      Right

   10. DHDan Hardy24:56

       ... the most aggressive-

   11. JRJoe Rogan24:57

       Rumble

   12. DHDan Hardy24:57

       ... fighters. Like, he was 214 on the night when we fought. We both weighed in at 171.

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:02

       [exhales]

   14. DHDan Hardy25:03

       He was 214. This was before the, uh, the days of IVs, you know?

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:05

       Yeah.

   16. DHDan Hardy25:06

       But, like, you have to-

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:06

       That's crazy

   18. DHDan Hardy25:07

       ... you have to wonder what it does to people, you know? And, and-

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:09

       Oh, it destroys you. It probably had some sort of an impact on his health problems that he had.

   20. DHDan Hardy25:13

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan25:13

       Because he was an enormous guy. I ran into him one [laughs] one time at a, at a lobby at the hotel, and I go, "How much do you weigh?"

   22. DHDan Hardy25:23

       [laughs]

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       And he goes, "230." I'm like, "Bro, get the fuck out."

   24. DHDan Hardy25:25

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:25

       "That's crazy."

   26. DHDan Hardy25:27

       Wild.

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:27

       "You're gonna lose 60 pounds? Six zero is nuts."

   28. DHDan Hardy25:32

       Crazy.

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:32

       That's n- and he was, he was 230, built like a house. I mean, he was a fucking stacked dude. It was crazy. And unfortunately, those big, muscular guys can cut more weight, because muscle is more water.

   30. DHDan Hardy25:46

       Yeah. Yeah.
7. 32:00 – 37:25

   Weight cutting: extreme examples, long-term damage, and adding weight classes

   1. DHDan Hardy32:00

      I've actually, I actually developed a, a, a system of introducing weight classes over the next several years for the PFL. I mean, obviously the problem that we have is that some weight classes are just not filling out because the fighters are just not there, unfortunately.

   2. JRJoe Rogan32:12

      Right.

   3. DHDan Hardy32:12

      You know? Um, but I also think that's a, that's a bit of a... That's a result of, of the monopolization and the kinda killing off of the grassroots of the sport, because the sport's not growing like it was in my day. You know what I mean? It's, it's very, very different now.

   4. JRJoe Rogan32:25

      What do you think's the cause of that?

   5. DHDan Hardy32:27

      I, I think [laughs] I think the control and the, and the monopolization of the sport by the UFC, unfortunately.

   6. JRJoe Rogan32:32

      How does that stop small organizations?

   7. DHDan Hardy32:34

      Well, because anything that starts to gather some momentum, they, they buy 'em out and they got rid of them. Some, some-

   8. JRJoe Rogan32:40

      Well, they certainly did buy out a bunch of organizations back in the day, right? They bought out Strikeforce, they bought out Pride, but they sorta bought out Pride. They got fucked.

   9. DHDan Hardy32:49

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan32:49

       Like, they thought they were buying out Pride. Do you know the whole, the whole deal behind that?

   11. DHDan Hardy32:52

       They, they... Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan32:53

       All the contracts were bad. [laughs]

   13. DHDan Hardy32:54

       [laughs] Is that right?

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:55

       Yeah, they got a fucking DVD library. Look, over time I'm sure it's been worth it, right? But I, I believe they paid 60 million for Pride. I might be wrong about that number, but I, that's what I recall. [smacks lips] And they didn't have any contracts.

   15. DHDan Hardy33:09

       Hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan33:09

       Like, you know, they... The contracts were all fucked up. So, like, they thought they were gonna get Fedor, they thought they were gonna get everybody. And so they got a lot of the guys to come over and sign new contracts with the UFC, like Cro Cop and Nogueira and a bunch of other people, but I don't think they got nearly what they thought they were getting.

   17. DHDan Hardy33:28

       Yeah. That's, that's interesting. I mean, obviously, you know, I, I love the UFC and I, I, I've, I've always held Dana and the UFC and what they've created for us in very, very high regard. But there, there, there has, in my opinion, we've passed the tipping point now, where now we're starting to see some of the negative effects of them kinda locking down everything. Because, like, there are certain organizations that are, they are connected with the UFC and they're enabled by the UFC through Fight Pass, and then they become almost like the feeder leagues.

   18. JRJoe Rogan33:55

       Like LFA and-

   19. DHDan Hardy33:56

       Exactly.

   20. JRJoe Rogan33:57

       Right.

   21. DHDan Hardy33:57

       But then a lot of these, a lot of those shows are now starting to get dropped off of Fight Pass, right? And the reason for that is because Contender Series is replacing them.

   22. JRJoe Rogan34:05

       So which shows have been dropped off Fight Pass?

   23. DHDan Hardy34:06

       I think LFA's just been dropped, hasn't it?

   24. JRJoe Rogan34:08

       Oh, has it been?

   25. DHDan Hardy34:08

       I think so.

   26. JRJoe Rogan34:09

       Hmm.

   27. DHDan Hardy34:09

       I mean, Invicta was on there a long time ago. I think they moved away themselves, but, like, there are... Ares was dropped a period. You know, my, my wife's a commentator on Ares. They, they were dropped a while ago.

   28. JRJoe Rogan34:18

       What was Ares?

   29. DHDan Hardy34:19

       Uh, it's a French promotion.

   30. JRJoe Rogan34:21

       Okay.
8. 37:25 – 50:31

   UFC dominance, feeder leagues, and the Power Slap controversy

   1. DHDan Hardy37:25

      Look, th- a- again, like, Power Slap can be its thing-

   2. JRJoe Rogan37:28

      Oh, yeah

   3. DHDan Hardy37:28

      ... and exist, it, just away from MMA, you know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan37:31

      Right.

   5. DHDan Hardy37:31

      And, and what I hate to see is the likes of Herzog and Mark Smith and Forrest, like, catching these unconscious guys as they're falling.

   6. JRJoe Rogan37:38

      Yes.

   7. DHDan Hardy37:38

      It just, it attaches the sport that we've worked so hard-

   8. JRJoe Rogan37:41

      Yes

   9. DHDan Hardy37:41

      ... to develop to something that is gonna... It, it does an injustice to the MMA fighters and how hard they work, and how much of, of human chess MMA is.

   10. JRJoe Rogan37:51

       Yeah.

   11. DHDan Hardy37:52

       You know?

   12. JRJoe Rogan37:52

       It's, it's literally like taking... What are those fucking smash 'em up derby racing events where they crash into each other?

   13. DHDan Hardy38:02

       Yeah, demolition derbies. Yeah, yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan38:03

       Demolition derby, yeah. It's like a Formula One driver and, being involved in demolition derby. Like, that's fucking crazy.

   15. DHDan Hardy38:09

       There's actually a reason for the chalk.

   16. JRJoe Rogan38:11

       Oh.

   17. DHDan Hardy38:11

       It's so that they can see where the hit was made.

   18. JRJoe Rogan38:13

       Oh.

   19. DHDan Hardy38:15

       To make sure it's a legal strike

   20. JRJoe Rogan38:15

       Indication of where the petition strike lands.

   21. DHDan Hardy38:17

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan38:18

       Well, can't you see that, though?

   23. DHDan Hardy38:19

       Uh-

   24. JRJoe Rogan38:19

       They're not, like, moving at the speed of light

   25. DHDan Hardy38:21

       They're also not allowed to have excessive chalk, and they can't use water. There's no excessive water. You just said put your head in water.

   26. JRJoe Rogan38:26

       The idea that-

   27. DHDan Hardy38:27

       They're not allowed to do it

   28. JRJoe Rogan38:28

       ... they have rules.

   29. DHDan Hardy38:29

       Or before you-

   30. JRJoe Rogan38:29

       The idea they have rules is so crazy.
9. 50:31 – 1:06:36

   Old-school fight media, K-1 tournaments, and nostalgia for combat archives

   1. JRJoe Rogan50:31

      You know, that's kind of partially how I got the job with the UFC. Um, when I first met Dana, like, he just, he got me tickets because it was the, I was on Fear Factor and the UFC, they'd just purchased it. So this is 2001. This is, uh, right post 9/11 when Tito Ortiz fought Vladimir Matyushenko, came out with the American flag. Everybody went crazy. And, um, I started talking to him about, like, Japan Vale Tudo and do you know about this guy, do you know about that guy? And I was, I was just, like, rattling off all these fighters that he had never heard of before. W- well, I was talking to him about all these guys that are fighting out of Russia, all these guys in Japan, and then we started talking, and then next thing you know, he's like, "Would, do you want to do commentary?"

   2. DHDan Hardy51:12

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan51:12

      I'm just like, "Oh, I just, I just, I just want, I just want to watch." Like-

   4. DHDan Hardy51:15

      Had you never thought about it before, commentary?

   5. JRJoe Rogan51:17

      No.

   6. DHDan Hardy51:18

      No.

   7. JRJoe Rogan51:18

      No. Well, I worked for the UFC before that-

   8. DHDan Hardy51:20

      Yeah

   9. JRJoe Rogan51:20

      ... as the post-fight interviewer, but that was in '97, UFC 12.

   10. DHDan Hardy51:24

       I remember that.

   11. JRJoe Rogan51:24

       And so I did it from '97 to '98, and then it was costing me money, 'cause I would make way more m- money if I would go work at a comedy club for the weekend than I would doing this, but it was fun. So I did it for a little while, but then it was like, I think it was UFC Japan, they wanted me to fly to Japan, and, uh, Frank Shamrock was fighting Kevin Jackson. Is that who it was? Um, I think he won by first round armbar.

   12. DHDan Hardy51:50

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan51:51

       And I was like, "I'm not going fucking Japan, man. I can't. No. I'm, I'm done." So I just quit. I was like, "I love you guys. It was fun. Good time while it lasted."

   14. DHDan Hardy52:00

       Did, did you feel like it was gonna go where it went, though?

   15. JRJoe Rogan52:02

       No, I thought w- they were fucked.

   16. DHDan Hardy52:04

       Really?

   17. JRJoe Rogan52:04

       It was, it was funny because, you know, Eddie Bravo and I were backstage at one of these events, like, way... You know, I met Eddie way back, back in the day, so it was like, this was like '97, '98. Eddie and I were backstage. Like, we were like, "You know what this fucking sport needs? Some crazy billionaires with a ton of money who love the sport, who just... 'Cause we know it's so exciting, and we know people would think it's so exciting. It just needs to be in everybody's face." And then who comes along? The Fertittas. It's like we manifested them.

   18. DHDan Hardy52:30

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan52:31

       [laughs]

   20. DHDan Hardy52:31

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan52:32

       It was crazy 'cause, like, you know, uh, w- the, one of the, the first events that I did for the UFC I did for free. I did, like, the first 15 events for free, and I just said, "Just get my friends tickets." So it was like Eddie and I would go and, uh, you know, we'd be like, "Bro, it's hap- it's fucking happening. It's actually happening." But even back then it wasn't famous.

   22. DHDan Hardy52:49

       Hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan52:50

       It was just, it was in Vegas and it was, you know, it was kind of getting a little bit of attention. It wasn't until 2005 that, that Forrest Whitaker, that the, the main event, um, of, um, rather, excuse me, Forrest Griffin and Stephan Bonnar, main event of, um, The Ultimate Fighter, that one fight changed everything. It was really crazy where, like, the stars align. With one fight, the whole sport takes off.

   24. DHDan Hardy53:19

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan53:19

       'Cause it really was that. I can't believe I called him Forrest Whitaker.

   26. DHDan Hardy53:22

       [laughs]

   27. JRJoe Rogan53:23

       But this is the thing-

   28. DHDan Hardy53:23

       Yeah, I did that on commentary. I called Robert Witska, Forrest Witska live on commentary.

   29. JRJoe Rogan53:27

       [laughs] I've called people... I fucked up Julianna Peña's name once.

   30. DHDan Hardy53:31

       Yeah.
10. 1:06:36 – 1:38:00

    How Rogan and Hardy became commentators—and why MMA commentary is uniquely hard

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:06:36

       That, that's, that's interesting about commentary. I've, I've always wondered, because y- you, everybody came after you, right? When it come, when it comes to MMA commentary. So, like, like, in the early days when I was first doing the job, no one knows what a color commentator or a play-by-play commentator is back in the day.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:06:51

       Right.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:06:51

       I think there's more of an understanding now. So, so-

    4. DHDan Hardy1:06:54

       My, my response to everybody is I'm, I'm gonna try and do Joe's job. You know what I mean? But you'd set the bar so high. I think partly that's what fed into my imposter syndrome. I'm sitting there and, look, I, and I, uh, the podcast that you did with, with Dustin, I appreciate all the kind words you did. I wanna throw it back to you, though, because you were the person that raised the bar for everybody else to reach. You know? So... And I didn't realize, 'cause I never had an intention of being a commentator. Like, it just came off the back of my career because my career was ended abruptly. So then anyone that ever says, "Oh, you, you, you're actually pretty good at this," the reason why is just 'cause I listen to you religiously. Like, a lot of people watch the fights and don't pay attention to the commentary. Like, I tuned in. I was paying attention to everything that you said. So even, even the delivery and the cadence and stuff, what you did laid the foundation for me to learn. So I very, very much appreciate that, my friend.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:07:44

       Oh, thank you. Thank you. It was accidental. [laughs]

    6. DHDan Hardy1:07:48

       Same for me. But, but, but it can't have been accidental because I had somebody to, to learn from, you know? With- That's why I asked you, because you didn't have anybody that kind of, kind of, you know-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:07:58

       Well, it was-

    8. DHDan Hardy1:07:58

       ... set the show out

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:07:58

       ... it was weird because, um, I think I was one of the first people to do it that had a real understanding of jujitsu. So when the fights would go to the ground, the play-by-play guy would have, you know, like Goldberg, great guy, didn't train, didn't know what the fuck was happening, so I would have to... And also people at home, "What's going on?" So I'd have to walk them through exactly when someone's in danger and why they're in danger, and how they can get out of it, and when they're free. "Okay, see his elbow? He's free now. He's good." And so my mind is spinning, like, 100 miles an hour. I'm like, now I don't have to do that as much 'cause people kind of understand things much more, but there's certain situations and certain positions where I would have to say, "No, this is a submission. Like, he's, he's very close here. Like, okay, now he's gotta cinch it up. He's gotta put his ankle behind his leg. Now he's got it. He's got..." And you'd have to, like, talk people through it. So it was, it was different than any other sport, 'cause it was, you're kind of, like, educating people on what's happening. Like, I couldn't use obscure... Like, even though I used an obscure term, like, you know, crackhead control or something like, like weird stuff like that, that Eddie comes up with these fucking ridiculous names for submissions and positions. But I would have to explain why this works, and what's happening, and what's going on, and what's, what's in danger, you know? And then it was weird because I felt, like, this obligation to jujitsu that that was the one thing... Like, you could... If someone kicks you in the head, you get it. Someone knees someone in the head, "Oh, he hit him with a flying knee," you get it. But j- explaining to someone, like, what, like, a, you know, a, a calf crusher is, like, that's, that's a weird fucking position.

    10. DHDan Hardy1:09:38

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:09:38

        Like, what is going on there, you know? Explaining to someone, you know, why a triangle works, and why it doesn't work, and why someone's safe, you know, with a head and arm choke. Why, "Okay, he's okay. He's got his hand over his ear." There's... It was all this weird stuff where it was partially trying to be entertaining, but also trying to educate, and I had to kind of figure it out as I did it.

    12. DHDan Hardy1:10:01

        Mm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:10:02

        You know, as I called... I don't know how many fights I've called. It's probably thousands.

    14. DHDan Hardy1:10:06

        Yeah. I mean-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:10:07

        I don't know

    16. DHDan Hardy1:10:07

        ... I've called a lot, and you, you've been doing it a lot longer than me. But-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:10:10

        I don't do as many now. You know, I only do North American pay-per-views, and I don't even do, I don't even go to Canada anymore, so fuck them.

    18. DHDan Hardy1:10:16

        [laughs]

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:10:16

        I love Canadians.

    20. DHDan Hardy1:10:17

        [laughs]

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:10:18

        It's the government that fucking creeps me out. But, um, the, the amount I was doing back then, I was doing, like, 20 shows plus a year, 22 shows a year.

    22. DHDan Hardy1:10:28

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:10:28

        So I was doing a show almost every other weekend I was flying somewhere.

    24. DHDan Hardy1:10:31

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:10:31

        And it was exhausting. It was a really, it was a problem, but it was... And at, and at one point in time it became really my main job after Fear Factor was over. And, uh, I loved it, but the, the traveling was brutal. You'd go to Australia, you'd come back from Australia, and now you're going to Dallas. You're going to Dallas, you're going to New York. It's like, "Hoo."

    26. DHDan Hardy1:10:50

        Yeah. I, I was in Aus- First time I went to Australia with the UFC, uh, it was a 56-hour round trip, and I was on the ground for 30 hours.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:10:57

        You feel like you're on drugs.

    28. DHDan Hardy1:10:58

        [laughs] That was, yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:10:58

        You feel like, like someone gave me a drug.

    30. DHDan Hardy1:11:00

        Yeah.
11. 1:38:00 – 1:51:35

    Focus, sensory overload, and ‘looking away to think’: ADHD, autism talk, and fame effects

    1. DHDan Hardy1:38:00

       All the time. In fact, Tom Hardy's just, uh, announced that he's, he's autistic. He's just collaborated with a brand, and they've, they've created a whole line of, of, of, you know, no eye contact rash guards-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:38:09

       How convenient

    3. DHDan Hardy1:38:10

       ... and stuff. [laughs]

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:38:11

       How convenient. He's autistic. Come on.

    5. DHDan Hardy1:38:13

       You know what was really interesting-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:38:14

       There's so many people that are claiming autistic. Like, unless you're coding in your sleep, shut the fuck up.

    7. DHDan Hardy1:38:18

       [laughs]

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:38:19

       All right?

    9. DHDan Hardy1:38:19

       Well, you know what was really interesting is I, I have a friend called Scroobius Pip. He's a rapper in the, in the UK.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:38:23

        Oh, I know that guy.

    11. DHDan Hardy1:38:23

        You know Scroobius?

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:38:24

        Yeah.

    13. DHDan Hardy1:38:25

        So he was in-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:38:25

        He's great

    15. DHDan Hardy1:38:25

        ... he was in Taboo with Tom Hardy, and he told me a story when they were driving from LA to Vegas. And Scroobius Pip, his, his, uh, record label's called Speech Development Records. He has a stammer.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:38:36

        Mm-hmm.

    17. DHDan Hardy1:38:37

        Um, he has a speech impediment, and on this drive between LA and Vegas, he's driving, Tom Hardy's in the passenger seat, and Tom started to mimic his stammer, but apologize for it. He's like, "I can't, can't help it." Like, he's-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:38:51

        Oh, wow

    19. DHDan Hardy1:38:51

        ... he's, like, absorbing parts of his character-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:38:54

        Oh, for a character

    21. DHDan Hardy1:38:55

        ... while he's sitting there

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:38:55

        ... for a new-

    23. DHDan Hardy1:38:56

        Very similar to, like, it happened with, with Johnny Depp and Bill Murray when they played Hunter Thompson, right?

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:39:01

        Oh.

    25. DHDan Hardy1:39:01

        Like, like, you, like, you watch Jack Sparrow, and Jack Sparrow's got a-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:39:05

        Mm-hmm

    27. DHDan Hardy1:39:05

        ... Hunter Thompson kind of move to him, and even Johnny Depp said himself he doesn't think he was ever the same after he played Hunter Thompson in Fear and Loathing.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:39:12

        Well, he was such a giant Hunter Thompson fan.

    29. DHDan Hardy1:39:14

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:39:15

        You know?
12. 1:51:35 – 2:12:33

    Trash talk as emotional warfare: Conor–Aldo, Hardy’s mind games, and stoic champions

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:51:35

       And, um, this fight this weekend is a lot of emotional warfare, right? Uh, Strickland has said some wild shit about Khamzat. He would say he'd shoot him. He calls him a goat fucker. [laughs] I mean... But it's interesting to me that it doesn't seem like Khamzat is biting on any of it.

    2. DHDan Hardy1:51:54

       No.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:51:55

       He's like, "This guy, he said this thing, but he doesn't believe it."

    4. DHDan Hardy1:51:58

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:51:59

       And you're like, "Whoa." Like, he's not, he doesn't seem upset about it. It doesn't seem like it's under his skin. He's like, "This guy, he says he wants war, but I don't think he wants war, or he'd be dead."

    6. DHDan Hardy1:52:10

       [laughs] That's it.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:52:12

       That's like-

    8. DHDan Hardy1:52:12

       That's how it should be. I mean-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:52:13

       Yeah

    10. DHDan Hardy1:52:13

        ... Strickland will be the same. I, I don't think you could say anything to Strickland that would offend him. He's just-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:52:17

        He'll laugh.

    12. DHDan Hardy1:52:18

        Yeah, exactly.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:52:18

        Yeah, he'll laugh.

    14. DHDan Hardy1:52:19

        Whereas like, say like when I had that fight against Marcus Davis coming up, like I was surprised at how angry he got at me. Like, in the countdown show I'm like, I'm laughing. I'm like, "I can't, I literally can't believe he's this het up and wound up about it," you know?

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:52:35

        Mm.

    16. DHDan Hardy1:52:35

        And like, you go back to the Conor thing. The, you remember the press conference where he stole Aldo's belt?

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:52:39

        Yes.

    18. DHDan Hardy1:52:39

        The last one they did in Ireland.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:52:41

        Yes, yes.

    20. DHDan Hardy1:52:41

        So I was behind the, the stage for that one to start with when they were both being kept separate, and Dana was there and, um, and then when they went on stage, I was on Conor's side of the stage at the bottom of the stairs, and the, the anger just emanating off Aldo the whole day-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:52:58

        Mm

    22. DHDan Hardy1:52:58

        ... was exhausting for me just to be around.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:53:00

        Mm.

    24. DHDan Hardy1:53:01

        And then after the, the, the press conference where Conor had taken his belt, as soon as they circled back and they were behind the thing again, Aldo was like beside himself angry.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:53:12

        Yeah.

    26. DHDan Hardy1:53:12

        And as soon as I saw that, I'm like, "Wow, that is, it's..." That's, that's like a level of witchcraft that you see in like the feinting of-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:53:18

        Yeah

    28. DHDan Hardy1:53:18

        ... of striking. You know, when you can start to pull somebody's emotions out like that.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:53:23

        Yeah.

    30. DHDan Hardy1:53:23

        And, and like, for me, I think, I think fighters should be completely impenetrable. Like, no one should be able to say anything to a fighter to upset them. I just-

Episode duration: 2:47:05