JRE MMA Show #179 with Josh Thompson & "Big" John McCarthy

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 2:13

   Show kickoff: why refs should be allowed to talk & the “McCarthy Mondays” workaround

   1. SPSpeaker0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

   2. JTJosh Thompson0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. SPSpeaker0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Gentlemen.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      We're live.

   5. SPSpeaker0:14

      What's happening?

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      My man.

   7. SPSpeaker0:15

      Good to see you.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      My man, my man.

   9. SPSpeaker0:17

      What is up? I enjoy your show. Your show's excellent. You guys have a really good MMA show. It's really solid.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       Thank you. [laughs]

   11. JTJosh Thompson0:21

       [laughs] Thank you. I, I kind of blew that, so it was-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       Yeah. [laughs]

   13. SPSpeaker0:24

       How'd you blow it?

   14. JTJosh Thompson0:24

       We can, we can talk about that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       [laughs]

   16. JTJosh Thompson0:26

       You know what? I got to talk to him about stuff too, so.

   17. SPSpeaker0:27

       You guys are not doing it anymore?

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       Sh-

   19. JTJosh Thompson0:29

       I, I stepped back away when I went, I started, uh, refereeing again, so.

   20. SPSpeaker0:32

       Goddammit, you gotta go back to doing it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       Ah.

   22. SPSpeaker0:34

       You guys are great. You guys are a great combination.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       I think I might.

   24. JTJosh Thompson0:37

       So-

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       [laughs]

   26. SPSpeaker0:37

       You have to

   27. JTJosh Thompson0:37

       ... what we did is w- what we, what we did is we started doing, uh, McCarthy Mondays because when he went back to refereeing, he's not allowed to talk about promotions, not allowed to talk about fighters-

   28. SPSpeaker0:46

       Right

   29. JTJosh Thompson0:46

       ... and what's wrong and, and the things that possibly, you know, can make some changes. And so we just started McCarthy Monday, where we just talk about, like, the Joe Schilling situation. That's something we can talk about, right?

   30. SPSpeaker0:55

       Right.
3. 2:13 – 3:38

   Unified rules whiplash: downed opponent definitions and the 12-to-6 elbow confusion

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:13

      Good. That's how shit gets solved. That's how y- you don't have, like, w- two, one hand down does not in, it's not a downed opponent anymore. Why? 'Cause we fucking complained forever. 12 to 6 elbows, they're legit again, except in New Jersey. [laughs]

   2. JTJosh Thompson2:26

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker2:26

      [laughs]

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:27

      Do you see the problem?

   5. JTJosh Thompson2:28

      Yeah.

   6. SPSpeaker2:28

      [laughs] Do you see the goddamn problem?

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:30

      When we were in New Jersey, I was like-

   8. JTJosh Thompson2:31

      Oh

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:31

      ... "You gotta be kidding me."

   10. JTJosh Thompson2:32

       Oh, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:32

       How the fuck do you guys not have 12 to 6 elbows?

   12. JTJosh Thompson2:34

       You can't make it any more complicated for the referees and the fighters.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:36

       Bro, it's so dumb.

   14. JTJosh Thompson2:37

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:37

       It's the dumbest fucking thing of all time.

   16. SPSpeaker2:39

       And it, it's so unfair to the fighters themselves because you, the, e- when we, when ... Look, I was part, I wrote those things out, and they were passed by the ABC, but we gave six months, six months because you gotta give the fighters ch- time to train to make sure that they get it right. Okay, and so it's, put it in, it works great, and now you expect them to go back to one location.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:03

       And remember in the middle of a fight.

   18. SPSpeaker3:04

       Exactly.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       Yeah.

   20. SPSpeaker3:05

       One location, and now they're gonna automatically go back to the old rules. It's like, you, do you realize what you're doing to them?

   21. JTJosh Thompson3:11

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:11

       It doesn't make any sense either. The old, the old rules are fucking stupid.

   23. SPSpeaker3:15

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:15

       We all, we all agreed.

   25. SPSpeaker3:16

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:16

       Everybody. No one was like, "No, no, no. 12 to 6 elbows-

   27. SPSpeaker3:19

       Oh

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:19

       ... are too dangerous."

   29. SPSpeaker3:20

       Oh, no. Oh, oh yes there was.

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:22

       Was there people?
4. 3:38 – 5:15

   What should actually be banned? Knees, kicks, and the reality of “damage as the job”

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:38

      Listen, if we're gonna ban anything, and I don't think we should ban anything, but if we're gonna ban anything, sidekicks to the knees.

   2. SPSpeaker3:43

      See? And that, that right there.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:45

      Right?

   4. SPSpeaker3:46

      You take a look at-

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:46

      I don't think we should.

   6. SPSpeaker3:46

      Okay, no, you shouldn't because-

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:48

      I don't think we should, but I'm saying if we should-

   8. JTJosh Thompson3:50

      Yeah

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:50

      ... there's an argument-

   10. SPSpeaker3:50

       Well-

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       ... that you're gonna blow out a guy's knee.

   12. SPSpeaker3:52

       Yeah, but-

   13. JTJosh Thompson3:52

       Exactly

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:52

       ... he'll never be, his career will never be the same again.

   15. SPSpeaker3:53

       Then we should, then we should absolutely ban kicks to the head and knees to the head. And we should-

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:57

       Mm

   17. SPSpeaker3:57

       ... we should ban ... Yes, because-

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:59

       Yeah. I mean, so which, listen-

   19. SPSpeaker3:59

       ... what's worse, the blown out knee or the blown out brain?

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:01

       I'm agreeing with you.

   21. SPSpeaker4:02

       That's the point.

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:03

       I don't think we should ban anything.

   23. SPSpeaker4:04

       There you go.

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:04

       But there's one thing that does bother me, like the Khalil Roundtree, Modestas Bukauskas fight when-

   25. SPSpeaker4:09

       Yeah. Remember, remember it well

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:10

       ... his, his knee went sideways?

   27. JTJosh Thompson4:11

       Yeah.

   28. SPSpeaker4:11

       Yeah. Oh, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       And you're like, "Oh, he's fucked for a year at least."

   30. JTJosh Thompson4:14

       Yep, at least.
5. 5:15 – 6:24

   RIZIN/Pride rules and the stomp debate: what works vs what looks brutal

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:15

      So do you think we go Rizin rules? 'Cause there's something to be said for that.

   2. SPSpeaker5:19

      I do. I, look at, I've, I've advocated for knees on the ground for a long time. It's never gonna happen.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:25

      My position is it's better in a ring 'cause you can avoid them a little bit if you're mobile, right?

   4. SPSpeaker5:30

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:30

      If you're still conscious and you have defensive capability, you can move around knees and kicks.

   6. SPSpeaker5:34

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:35

      When the cage happens, and you're butted up, and someone stomps you, that's a totally different animal.

   8. SPSpeaker5:39

      First off, the stomp I don't ever agree with.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:40

      Mm.

   10. SPSpeaker5:40

       And the reason why is this. Name me the fight that you saw that a stomp was an effective technique when the fighter was not already seriously hurt. Doesn't happen.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:53

       Sakaraba.

   12. SPSpeaker5:53

       Sakaraba used to do it all the time after he hurt people. Every time he tried to do it when they weren't hurt, they just moved, and he was Mongolian stomping on nothing.

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:02

       Hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker6:03

       Go ahead. Take a look at him.

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:04

       Yeah, I'd have to go back and watch him, honestly.

   16. SPSpeaker6:05

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:06

       Yeah, there was, there was, uh, Minowa and Phil Baroni, he did that a couple times with him when Minowa couldn't get the take down, 'cause that was their cornering room for that fight.

   18. SPSpeaker6:13

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan6:13

       There was that fight, then there was, um ... And then Shogun and Ninja, remember when they used to like do the stomp through? Ah, yeah.

   20. SPSpeaker6:17

       Oh, yeah. No, Sho- Sho-

   21. JRJoe Rogan6:18

       They would stomp through, and that led to that

   22. SPSpeaker6:18

       ... Ninja and Shogun, the brothers together.

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:21

       Yeah.

   24. SPSpeaker6:21

       Those guys were phenomenal, Adam.

6. 6:24 – 10:25

   Pride nostalgia: Shogun’s peak, the Emelianenko mystique, and Alexander’s prison-tattoo energy

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:24

      Oh, and we, people that only saw Shogun in Pride missed it.

   2. SPSpeaker6:28

      Oh, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:28

      Yeah. You missed it. Excuse me, in the UFC.

   4. SPSpeaker6:30

      His fight against-

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:31

      You missed it in Pride

   6. SPSpeaker6:32

      ... Quinton Rampage Jackson-

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:33

      Ooh Yeah

   8. SPSpeaker6:34

      ... was ... I mean, 'cause a lot of people didn't, you know, going into that fight, you know, that's Rampage. You know, this, this guy's young. He absolutely just annihilated Rampage in that fight, and it was like, oh, my God, he's way better than I ever gave him credit for before that fight. That fight was, that was a coming out party for, for Shogun.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:55

      Yeah, he was a- Yeah ... lethal striker.

   10. SPSpeaker6:57

       Oh.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:57

       Lethal. And s- th- all those Curitiba guys were so hyper-aggressive. Yeah.

   12. SPSpeaker7:02

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:02

       His brother was just as nasty- Yeah ... until he, you know, he's kinda got a little chinny after a couple shots.

   14. SPSpeaker7:06

       He got chinny.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:06

       Well, he started fighting big guys. Yeah, that was the problem.

   16. SPSpeaker7:08

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:08

       Remember, didn't he fight Alexander? Didn't he t- who did he fight? He fought some heavyweight, right?

   18. SPSpeaker7:13

       Oh, he-

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       Yeah, and he got-

   20. SPSpeaker7:14

       He fought quite a few

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:15

       ... knocked and crushed. Yeah. Who did he ... But he fought one-

   22. SPSpeaker7:17

       I wanna say-

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:18

       ... guy where it was like, what is this? Why is he fighting this guy? Yeah. I can't remember who it was.

   24. SPSpeaker7:23

       Was it, was it-

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:23

       Was it Emelianenko's brother?

   26. SPSpeaker7:24

       I was gonna say, it was Alexander Emelianenko.

   27. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

   28. SPSpeaker7:26

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan7:26

       I think it was that.

   30. SPSpeaker7:27

       I think it was.
7. 10:25 – 14:36

   Inside Fedor: explosive speed, relaxed rhythm, and why he’s still in the GOAT conversation

   1. SPSpeaker10:25

      Look, I, I'll tell you what, I worked out with Fedor, and it was, it w- it was a, a great moment in my life. If you're gonna sit there and say, "Well, if you're gonna get your ass kicked," it's a great moment.

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:34

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker10:35

      But the one thing I always thought, you know, before j- you know, watching him, reffing him, I go, "He's gotta have some kind of, you know, like, just tard strength, you know?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:44

      Right, right.

   5. SPSpeaker10:45

      No. He's fast. And I mean super fast. When he explodes, and, and his hands are down kinda, so it's hard to see when the shots are coming, and everything he does, he just explodes into.

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:58

      Hmm.

   7. SPSpeaker10:58

      And you go, "Oh, I get it."

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:00

      Hmm.

   9. SPSpeaker11:00

      Because you gotta work really hard to try to stay up with his speed when he all of a sudden is exploding, and then it's like, oh, he doesn't get tired, and you're starting to get tired 'cause you're having to match that RPM that he's at.

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:10

       Right.

   11. SPSpeaker11:11

       He-

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:11

       And he's not a big heavyweight either.

   13. SPSpeaker11:12

       No, he's not.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:13

       Which I think is a real benefit.

   15. SPSpeaker11:14

       I think it is. I, dude, that's-

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:15

       Until you're fighting a guy like Ngannou.

   17. SPSpeaker11:18

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:18

       And then I'm like, eh.

   19. SPSpeaker11:20

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:20

       Yeah. There's a problem there.

   21. SPSpeaker11:22

       Oh, yeah. Definitely.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:22

       'Cause that guy can be patient. Yeah. 265 naturally.

   23. SPSpeaker11:25

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:26

       Nuclear power.

   25. SPSpeaker11:27

       And G- Ngannou hits you anywhere in the head.

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:29

       It's a problem.

   27. SPSpeaker11:30

       You're in trouble.

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:30

       Yeah. Yeah, it's a real problem.

   29. SPSpeaker11:32

       You know?

   30. JRJoe Rogan11:32

       Yeah.
8. 14:36 – 16:06

   Cro Cop’s left kick, kickboxing-to-MMA translation, and the blueprint Fedor wrote

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:36

      He had such explosive power. And he, to me, he was, like, the first guy to figure out how to transition from kickboxing to MMA.

   2. JTJosh Thompson14:43

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:43

      Because he did it-

   4. SPSpeaker14:44

      Oh

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:44

      ... with explosiveness.

   6. SPSpeaker14:45

      But Maurice Smith.

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:46

      Again, at the highest level.

   8. SPSpeaker14:46

      Come on, you gotta give him.

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:47

      That's true.

   10. SPSpeaker14:47

       Yes.

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:47

       That's true.

   12. SPSpeaker14:47

       Maurice Smith, I gotta give him, you know.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:49

       That's true. That's true. Maurice, Maurice was the first. But Cro Cop was in that same era-

   14. SPSpeaker14:53

       Absolutely

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:53

       ... and he was doing it in Pride.

   16. SPSpeaker14:55

       Yeah.

   17. JTJosh Thompson14:55

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:55

       And all those other guys, like Ernesto Hoost, it didn't really work out for them when they-

   19. SPSpeaker14:59

       Yeah

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:59

       ... like, he only fought Bob Sapp in a kickboxing fight.

   21. JTJosh Thompson15:02

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:02

       But even when they were fighting, like, bigger Cr- like, Cro Cop fucked up Bob Sapp.

   23. SPSpeaker15:06

       Oh.

   24. JTJosh Thompson15:06

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:06

       Like, same era.

   26. SPSpeaker15:07

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:07

       Same, same, not-

   28. SPSpeaker15:08

       Same time.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:08

       Yeah.

   30. SPSpeaker15:08

       Exactly, same time.
9. 16:06 – 20:54

   Aldo, soccer legs, and the athletic base debate (plus the economics of “make it make sense” matchmaking)

   1. JTJosh Thompson16:06

      Yeah, they c- d- Dana called me a couple times to fight him, and I was, like, ranked number three. He was, like, just, I think he hit number 15. I'm like, "No." [laughs]

   2. SPSpeaker16:14

      [laughs] Give, give me a higher rank, guy.

   3. JTJosh Thompson16:16

      Sorry, dude. Like-

   4. SPSpeaker16:17

      It's not that it, it's not that I d- it's not that I wouldn't fight-

   5. JTJosh Thompson16:20

      Give me a rank somewhere. Yeah

   6. SPSpeaker16:20

      ... it's give me a higher rank, guy.

   7. JTJosh Thompson16:20

      Yeah. [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker16:21

      Like, make it make sense.

   9. JTJosh Thompson16:22

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:23

       Yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker16:23

       Make it make sense.

   12. JTJosh Thompson16:23

       Help me out. Help me help you.

   13. SPSpeaker16:24

       Help me to help you. That's a-

   14. JTJosh Thompson16:25

       Come on. This time in my life, make it make sense.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       [laughs]

   16. SPSpeaker16:31

       Jeez.

   17. JTJosh Thompson16:31

       [laughs]

   18. SPSpeaker16:31

       You did it.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       Oh.

   20. SPSpeaker16:32

       Back when he came in, though, you gotta look at, at Barboza. You know, he's been there a long time now, when you think about it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       Still going at it.

   22. JTJosh Thompson16:38

       I know.

   23. SPSpeaker16:38

       But when he came in-

   24. JTJosh Thompson16:40

       Wow

   25. SPSpeaker16:40

       ... it was like, dude, this is a next level of stand up ability with what this guy can do.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:46

       Yeah.

   27. SPSpeaker16:46

       And it was like, man.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       And oddly, mostly kicks.

   29. SPSpeaker16:49

       Yeah.

   30. JTJosh Thompson16:49

       Yeah.
10. 20:54 – 30:55

    The weight-cut trap: random weigh-ins, commission limits, and the ‘diminishing returns’ of size

    1. JRJoe Rogan20:54

       Yeah. But the weight cuts and having to compete on the same day as weight cuts is-

    2. JTJosh Thompson20:58

       Yeah

    3. JRJoe Rogan20:58

       ... a big difference. And for people that have never done that before and don't know, it's fucking hard.

    4. JTJosh Thompson21:04

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan21:04

       Even 24 hours is hard. Weight cutting's the grossest thing in MMA.

    6. SPSpeaker21:07

       It is. I agree with you.

    7. JRJoe Rogan21:07

       They should figure out a way to stop it.

    8. SPSpeaker21:09

       I totally... They, they, if you're gonna-

    9. JRJoe Rogan21:10

       I don't know what the way is

    10. SPSpeaker21:11

        ... you're gonna talk about-

    11. JTJosh Thompson21:12

        There is no way

    12. SPSpeaker21:12

        ... one of the most-

    13. JTJosh Thompson21:13

        There is no way

    14. SPSpeaker21:14

        ... one of the most dangerous things that you do with... Like, think about this, Joe. Every, every sport, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, they all have team chefs. They all have all these things. As far as we want our athletes to be as physically ready and have the right nutrition and all these things, what's the sports that we go and we starve our athletes and dehydrate them?

    15. JTJosh Thompson21:36

        [laughs] 24 hours before a cage fight.

    16. JRJoe Rogan21:38

        It's the dumbest thing ever.

    17. JTJosh Thompson21:39

        24 hours before the most demanding, most dangerous sport in the world.

    18. SPSpeaker21:42

        Yep.

    19. JTJosh Thompson21:42

        But Joe, even if we did it the same day, fighters would still cut weight to try and make that weight.

    20. JRJoe Rogan21:47

        I know, but I-

    21. JTJosh Thompson21:47

        They would still do that to themselves

    22. JRJoe Rogan21:48

        ... the, the question is, I wonder if there's a way to prevent that. Like, the way to prevent that-

    23. SPSpeaker21:52

        Well-

    24. JRJoe Rogan21:52

        ... I would say is, everybody, here's your mandate. No one's getting out of shape anymore because we're gonna have random weigh-ins.

    25. JTJosh Thompson21:58

        Mm.

    26. JRJoe Rogan21:58

        So we're gonna just show up at your fucking gym.

    27. SPSpeaker22:00

        Just can't do it.

    28. JRJoe Rogan22:01

        But, but you, could you? Like, let's say you fight at 170. You cannot weigh more than 180.

    29. SPSpeaker22:07

        See, here, here's the... You could do it.

    30. JRJoe Rogan22:08

        On any given day. I'll show up at your fucking house at 7:00 in the morning.
11. 30:55 – 32:53

    When weight cuts turn fatal: Rumble Johnson, AJ’s struggles, and why bodies eventually collect the debt

    1. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       Well, obviously the biggest one was Rumble Johnson.

    2. SPSpeaker30:57

       Oh my God.

    3. JTJosh Thompson30:57

       Absolutely.

    4. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       Rumble Johnson was the craziest.

    5. SPSpeaker30:59

       Craziest.

    6. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       He would weigh 230 and make it all the way-

    7. SPSpeaker31:01

       170

    8. JRJoe Rogan31:01

       ... well, it's t- but basically what Morales is doing right now.

    9. JTJosh Thompson31:03

       Yeah.

    10. SPSpeaker31:03

        Yeah. MVP event on Netflix

    11. JRJoe Rogan31:05

        There you go, Fazil.

    12. SPSpeaker31:06

        Fazil, there we go.

    13. JRJoe Rogan31:06

        Namo Fazil-

    14. SPSpeaker31:07

        Yep

    15. JRJoe Rogan31:07

        ... recorded the highest weight gain. 27.2 pounds. [laughs] That's insane.

    16. SPSpeaker31:12

        Can you believe that?

    17. JRJoe Rogan31:14

        That's insane. That's so much.

    18. SPSpeaker31:17

        [laughs]

    19. JRJoe Rogan31:17

        He got in the cage at 198 for a 170-pound fight. I would love to get Morales on the, the scales, like right before he fought Shawn Brady.

    20. SPSpeaker31:24

        Oh, yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan31:25

        Like- Mm. "Excuse me, sir."

    22. SPSpeaker31:27

        See, Shawn Brady is-

    23. JRJoe Rogan31:27

        Yeah, he's huge

    24. SPSpeaker31:28

        ... Shawn, Shawn Brady is a, a, a thick human.

    25. JRJoe Rogan31:31

        Short and stout.

    26. SPSpeaker31:31

        He's not, he's not super tall, but he's thick.

    27. JRJoe Rogan31:33

        Oh, yeah.

    28. SPSpeaker31:34

        He is put together, and Morales made him look like a-

    29. JRJoe Rogan31:37

        Like tiny

    30. SPSpeaker31:37

        ... like a lightweight.
12. 32:53 – 51:34

    Arlovski’s longevity lesson + the Rico–Usyk controversy: stoppages, mouthpieces, and judging integrity

    1. JRJoe Rogan32:53

       A long time ago- Broke his jaw ... when Arlovski was still super legit. Broke Arlovski's jaw. Yeah. Now, he's- Not that Arlovski's not stup- super legit now. Fucking guy wins bare-knuckle heavyweight championship at like 100 years old. [laughs] Dude, he's still slaying it.

    2. SPSpeaker33:04

       Gotta love it. And fought at SMRT.

    3. JRJoe Rogan33:06

       Yeah.

    4. SPSpeaker33:06

       Look at, there's a-

    5. JRJoe Rogan33:07

       That is crazy

    6. SPSpeaker33:07

       ... you take a look at Andrei Arlovski, and people say whatever they want about his career's ama- since UFC 28-

    7. JRJoe Rogan33:14

       Nuts

    8. SPSpeaker33:14

       ... was his first show.

    9. JRJoe Rogan33:15

       It's nuts. Nuts.

    10. SPSpeaker33:16

        Okay?

    11. JRJoe Rogan33:16

        Crazy.

    12. SPSpeaker33:16

        Went all the way, went all the way into today's day, basically, and but he changed his style. You know, Arlovski was a-

    13. JRJoe Rogan33:23

        Yeah

    14. SPSpeaker33:23

        ... big power puncher for a long time, and then was getting hit with big shots, and said, "You know what? I'm gonna be a volume guy." And he was successful with it.

    15. JRJoe Rogan33:31

        Yeah.

    16. SPSpeaker33:32

        And didn't take near as much damage.

    17. JRJoe Rogan33:34

        Yeah, he fought a lot more technical.

    18. SPSpeaker33:36

        Yep.

    19. JRJoe Rogan33:36

        A lot slicker.

    20. SPSpeaker33:37

        Yep.

    21. JRJoe Rogan33:37

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker33:38

        Didn't take big chances.

    23. JRJoe Rogan33:39

        Beat, beat a lot of good guys, too.

    24. SPSpeaker33:40

        Yes.

    25. JRJoe Rogan33:40

        Yeah. Beat Travis Browne when Travis was in his prime.

    26. SPSpeaker33:43

        Oh, yeah. Yep. Oh, that, that fight with Travis Browne-

    27. JRJoe Rogan33:45

        Amazing

    28. SPSpeaker33:45

        ... was a fricking awesome fight.

    29. JRJoe Rogan33:48

        Awesome fight.

    30. SPSpeaker33:48

        Awesome fight.
13. 51:34 – 53:39

    Are more judges the fix? How judging really works, bad optics, and why refs carry real consequences

    1. JRJoe Rogan51:34

       Do you think there'd be a benefit in having five judges instead of three?

    2. SPSpeaker51:37

       No.

    3. JRJoe Rogan51:37

       No?

    4. SPSpeaker51:38

       I've worked with it. I've done it too many times. It ha-

    5. JRJoe Rogan51:39

       How come?

    6. SPSpeaker51:40

       ... doesn't change anything.

    7. JRJoe Rogan51:41

       It doesn't?

    8. SPSpeaker51:41

       Doesn't change anything. I'm just being honest. And if it-

    9. JRJoe Rogan51:44

       But if you have-

    10. SPSpeaker51:44

        ... did I would say, "I, yeah, we should do it."

    11. JRJoe Rogan51:46

        But if you have two bad judges and three good ones, the right guy wins.

    12. SPSpeaker51:48

        Why do you have two, why do you have two bad judges?

    13. JRJoe Rogan51:50

        Well-

    14. SPSpeaker51:50

        That's the question.

    15. JRJoe Rogan51:51

        That is the question.

    16. SPSpeaker51:52

        No. That is the question.

    17. JRJoe Rogan51:52

        But when you're on the road-

    18. SPSpeaker51:54

        [laughs]

    19. JRJoe Rogan51:54

        ... let's be honest.

    20. SPSpeaker51:54

        [laughs]

    21. JRJoe Rogan51:55

        When we're on the road, and we do it, let-

    22. SPSpeaker51:56

        Okay

    23. JRJoe Rogan51:56

        ... let's not even name a state, but we show up and we have to use these regular local guys, there have been issues.

    24. SPSpeaker52:02

        I'm not saying there haven't.

    25. JRJoe Rogan52:03

        Right.

    26. SPSpeaker52:03

        I'm not saying there haven't.

    27. JRJoe Rogan52:04

        There's, there are bad judges, unfortunately.

    28. SPSpeaker52:05

        Yes, ab- absolutely.

    29. JRJoe Rogan52:06

        I love cops. There's bad cops, right?

    30. SPSpeaker52:09

        [laughs] There are.
14. 53:39 – 1:01:31

    Money habits and incentives: win bonuses, financial planning, and why fighters need guardrails

    1. SPSpeaker53:39

       Yeah.

    2. JRJoe Rogan53:40

       I don't like, I don't like the whole win bonus. Everyone's trying to win.

    3. SPSpeaker53:43

       I hate it. Can't stand it.

    4. JRJoe Rogan53:44

       It's, can't stand it.

    5. SPSpeaker53:45

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan53:45

       You should get paid. You're a prize fighter.

    7. SPSpeaker53:47

       That's right.

    8. JRJoe Rogan53:47

       You should get paid to compete. This is the number.

    9. SPSpeaker53:50

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan53:50

        Whether it's 200,000 or two, it shouldn't be dependent upon judges' decisions.

    11. SPSpeaker53:54

        I'm-

    12. JRJoe Rogan53:54

        It should be dependent upon you showed up, you fought your fucking ass off, you're trying to win. If you win, you're gonna make more money. No one's trying to lose, right? So it's like, what are we doing?

    13. JTJosh Thompson54:02

        I'm okay with the win bonus, but it's gotta be more skewed towards the show money. So give me, like, let's just, I'm using a round number of 100,000.

    14. SPSpeaker54:08

        Say 80/20?

    15. JTJosh Thompson54:09

        80/20, right?

    16. SPSpeaker54:09

        Okay.

    17. JTJosh Thompson54:09

        And then, then you give me another bonus for a finishing bonus. If I get the knockout, you give me another 20 or 50.

    18. JRJoe Rogan54:14

        Well, they're doing that now.

    19. JTJosh Thompson54:15

        So, you know what I mean?

    20. JRJoe Rogan54:15

        The UFC's doing finishing bonuses.

    21. JTJosh Thompson54:16

        But I mean for, yeah, exactly.

    22. JRJoe Rogan54:17

        But, but I just don't like win bonuses.

    23. JTJosh Thompson54:19

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan54:19

        I think you, you know, the fact that there have been bad decisions-

    25. JTJosh Thompson54:22

        Mm-hmm

    26. JRJoe Rogan54:22

        ... and guys have lost half their fucking purse when they need it, and it's, it's-

    27. JTJosh Thompson54:26

        Yeah.

    28. SPSpeaker54:26

        Or-

    29. JRJoe Rogan54:26

        ... it's, you got robbed. That's when you really got robbed.

    30. SPSpeaker54:28

        Yes.
15. 1:01:31 – 1:18:16

    Brain damage realities: recovery time, warning signs, Freddie Roach’s hard lesson, and the APOE4 risk factor

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:01:31

       I think it's honestly in your family.

    2. SPSpeaker1:01:32

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:01:32

       I think you need, like, someone who loves you, someone who-

    4. SPSpeaker1:01:36

       Someone who is just-

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

       You know

    6. SPSpeaker1:01:37

       ... absolutely, totally honest saying, "You can't-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       Yeah

    8. SPSpeaker1:01:40

       ... do this this fast. I'm not saying you can't do it."

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

       Right.

    10. SPSpeaker1:01:43

        "But you have to do these things-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

        100%

    12. SPSpeaker1:01:45

        ... to be able to make it to where you have a ability to take a shot like you used to, because it's diminished at this moment."

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:53

        Not just that. You have to take into consideration that he gets knocked out, and then he goes right into camp, okay?

    14. JTJosh Thompson1:01:58

        Mm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

        So you're not gonna re-

    16. JTJosh Thompson1:01:59

        Yeah

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:59

        ... rest your brain.

    18. JTJosh Thompson1:02:00

        No.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:00

        You're just not.

    20. JTJosh Thompson1:02:01

        You can't.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

        Even if you're just wrestling, you're not resting your brain.

    22. JTJosh Thompson1:02:04

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker1:02:04

        You can't.

    24. JTJosh Thompson1:02:05

        Any time your body h- your body temperature rises-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:07

        Right

    26. JTJosh Thompson1:02:08

        ... it's, you're damaging your brain.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:09

        Right.

    28. JTJosh Thompson1:02:09

        Especially if you haven't let it recover yet.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:11

        And there's no way he let it recover.

    30. JTJosh Thompson1:02:12

        No.
16. 1:18:16 – 2:00:57

    Prospects, heavyweights, and promoter politics: Gable Steveson, Francis/UFC fallout, and the case for ‘super heavyweight chaos’

    1. SPSpeaker1:18:16

       That's where, that's where you have someone like Steveson coming in.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:18:20

       Oh.

    3. SPSpeaker1:18:20

       Gable coming in [laughs] in the heavyweight division.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:18:22

       Yeah, yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker1:18:22

       Okay, Curtis Blaydes can wrestle. Now Josh Hokett. Look at, Josh Hokett's the real deal, you know? He, he was a, he's a, he's a good athlete.

    6. JTJosh Thompson1:18:30

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker1:18:30

       He's a good all-around athlete, and he-

    8. JTJosh Thompson1:18:32

       He's a character

    9. SPSpeaker1:18:32

       ... you go with the shtick. Oh, hey, hey, look at his shtick.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:18:35

        We're talking about him.

    11. SPSpeaker1:18:36

        It's great.

    12. JTJosh Thompson1:18:36

        Yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker1:18:36

        Exactly.

    14. JTJosh Thompson1:18:36

        But also, he put up. He put up.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:18:38

        Absolutely.

    16. SPSpeaker1:18:38

        Oh.

    17. JTJosh Thompson1:18:38

        He put up in that Curtis Blaydes fight.

    18. SPSpeaker1:18:40

        Hold on, that fight, as a heavyweight fight, was awesome.

    19. JTJosh Thompson1:18:43

        Was awesome.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:18:43

        Awesome to watch.

    21. JTJosh Thompson1:18:44

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker1:18:44

        You know?

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:18:44

        Terrible for your dome, though.

    24. SPSpeaker1:18:45

        Oh, yes.

    25. JTJosh Thompson1:18:46

        Yeah.

    26. SPSpeaker1:18:46

        Yes, it is.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:18:46

        And that's the crazy thing, that he's gonna fight Derrick Lewis, who's the biggest knockout puncher in the history of the fucking heavyweight division.

    28. SPSpeaker1:18:52

        Yep.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:18:52

        More knockouts than anyone, and he's gonna fight him, what, how many weeks? Seven weeks?

    30. JTJosh Thompson1:18:57

        Yeah, seven weeks.

Episode duration: 2:44:41