JRE MMA Show #181 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 2:42

   Gaethje’s title win finally sinks in: from 19-year grind to “I’m the champion”

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. TWTrevor Wittman0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Gentlemen, first of all, thank you for being here. I couldn't wait to talk to you. Congratulations on one of the most epic accomplishments in the history of combat sports, and that's not an understatement. I mean, it might be an understatement. I may- it's not an overstatement. It's perfect. That was one of the greatest nights I've ever experienced of watching anything in my life.

   4. JGJustin Gaethje0:30

      Mm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      It was amazing. And to have you cap it off and win the title when you're facing a guy that everybody thought was at least number two pound for pound. It was, like, him and Islam are number one and number two.

   6. JGJustin Gaethje0:43

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:44

      And some odds had you at six to one, which I thought was very disrespectful. I thought, I thought like, "Oh, like, this is crazy. Like, six to one's crazy. Like, Ilia's really good, but so is Justin. This is kind of nuts." Like, the... To have you win the way you won in front of the fucking White House.

   8. JGJustin Gaethje1:04

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:05

      How does it feel?

   10. JGJustin Gaethje1:07

       Oh, you know, it's really not real yet. Um, I was expecting to have, like, um, an internal sense of relief that, like, I don't have something to chase, 'cause I was always chasing this belt. And I was expecting to wake up with, like, some kind of natural release of pressure, but I don't know. I, I don't feel that. I... As the days go by, every day I, I feel it a little bit more, a little bit more. Two days ago my dad was like, you know, "What is it, what was it like waking up being the champion?" And I like, I was like, "I haven't even thought about that." And then I was, you know, on the shitter like 10 minutes later, and I was sitting there thinking about it. I was like-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:45

       [laughs]

   12. JGJustin Gaethje1:45

       "Wow, I'm the fucking champion." Like, it's fucking crazy.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       [laughs]

   14. JGJustin Gaethje1:50

       And yeah, it's just... I mean, I've just been on the grind for so many years now. My dad dropped me off 19 years ago in Colorado. I knew nobody, uh, to wrestle. And yeah, to see, to see where I'm at now is just absolutely incredible. I mean, there's really no way to explain how or why, you know? Or, like, why I deserve it or wh- I mean, I worked my ass off. I have made mistakes. You know, I've done things the wrong way, but I've always corrected and got back on the path. And you know, I think the, the coaches, the mentors, but mostly the coaches that I've been, you know, and the team that I have around me is, is a huge reason why I was able to stay on track and, and just keep, keep moving forward and keep trusting that, you know, I c- I belong in, in the top of the league.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       Well, you, you've clearly-

3. 2:42 – 6:58

   Trevor Wittman on coaching as mentorship: honesty, long-term vision, and the mental game

   1. JGJustin Gaethje2:42

      Mm

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:42

      ... shown it throughout your career. And having a great coach like Trevor, and one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you in Trevor, is 'cause you guys have a very unique relationship.

   3. JGJustin Gaethje2:50

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:50

      First of all, I love the YouTube series, The Art of Violence.

   5. JGJustin Gaethje2:53

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:53

      Fantastic. And what's great is watching you co- two guys work together, and Trevor, you being like very acutely aware of when to pull him back, when to ramp it up, when to push. Like, you're, you guys, having a relationship like that is so critical because-

   7. JGJustin Gaethje3:10

      Mm

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:10

      ... you guys know each other so well. You've seen him perform so many times. You've seen him fight and perform in the gym-

   9. JGJustin Gaethje3:17

      Mm

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       ... that you know where he's at all the time. And having that sense of w- where your fighter is at any given time in camp, 'cause you know him so well.

   11. JGJustin Gaethje3:26

       Mm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       Boy, that's a giant advantage.

   13. TWTrevor Wittman3:28

       It is. Uh-

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:29

       Whoop. Hold on.

   15. TWTrevor Wittman3:30

       Oh my God.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       Just, there we go. Now we're-

   17. TWTrevor Wittman3:35

       Te- testes. Testes went through.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       [laughs]

   19. JGJustin Gaethje3:37

       [laughs]

   20. TWTrevor Wittman3:38

       Yeah, I think, uh, uh, that's a huge advantage is, is knowing your athlete. And, uh, you know, I've been doing this for a long period of time, but there's lots of coaches out there that consider their fighters their friends. I do consider him one of my best friends, but I, I put myself more in, like, a father position of I need to know when to tell him the truth, and I've got myself in trouble with that, uh, with fighters. Where you tell them the truth so hard that you have to let them go. Like a child, like, "Hey, if we're, we're not on the same beliefs, go live life and see how it is, and then when you return, I'm still gonna love you." Uh, having that type of thing where I have to be dead honest for your career, not because it, it helps us now and it feels good right now at the moment. I have to look at that-

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:17

       Right

   22. TWTrevor Wittman4:17

       ... from, from the time that we start and we talk about, you know, what are his goals, and then my job is to be an advisor, be a mentor to get him to that place as best as I can. Because these are his goals, and I want to support those. And in the beginning of his career his, his goals were to be the, the, the, the most violent guy out there, the most remembered, the guy that s- every time someone bought a, a ticket, they remembered Justin Gaethje selling that show. And, uh, then it turned into, "No, I wanna have this belt." And that was hard because we did go and, uh, not get the belt twice. And you, you know, it's so cool to be in kind of those scenarios where it's like, "Damn, you had two o- opportunities. Now it's never gonna happen." And that's what life is. Life is one of those things that you keep getting up and chase your goals. You never know g- how it's gonna happen. And yes, you want to dream and you want to have a, a, a, you want to have a plan. But I'll tell you right now, through all the d- the times that I've had championship fighters in business, in, in, in life, the plans never work. You always have to adjust them. But it's that dream and that vision. To get you to the top of the stairs, you have to get up each one of those steps. So, you know, Justin went out there and wrote a story that I don't think will ever be forgotten, and he did it one round at a time, and that's what impresses me because his mindset, I love the mental game. I love to l- to talk about the mental game. Even, like, Ilia. Ilia's a special guy with how he uses his mental, the secret, the, the, "If I see it, I believe it, it'll happen." To a point. [laughs] You know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:47

       [laughs] That's it. Yeah.

   24. TWTrevor Wittman5:47

       It's like, I always tell people, like, if you want... If you go down the ice cream aisle and you're like, "Hey, I don't know what ice cream I want," you're gonna stand there and go, "Oh, that one looks good. That one looks good. That one looks bet-" The people that are like, "I want mint chocolate chip," you get in there, you get it done, you grab that mint chocolate chip and you walk out. Very similar to Ilia's last three fights. He went out there and he, he, he demanded what he wanted. His confidence got him through that But it makes it very hard when you get that stale, nasty, rotten milk fucking mint chocolate chip.

   25. JRJoe Rogan6:12

       [laughs]

   26. TWTrevor Wittman6:12

       So you start to go, "Oh, shit. What is gonna happen now?" So I think, uh, the relationship that we have is me guiding him, me pulling him back at, at the strictly situation, "Hey, let's pull back a little bit. Let's, let's focus on what's going on. I don't want no distractions." And having someone... And he trusts that I care about him. I, I love him to death. I love his family. Like, our relationship is so strong, and I need that with my athletes. And, uh, I'm just bl- blessed and 100... You know, I say honored, but more, more importantly humbled by someone who I've never worked mental with, who shows me different ways to the mental game of fighting, which I feel I have very high level with, is it's something that if you put some- put yourself around people that make you better, this guy makes me better daily, and I'm very grateful for that.

4. 6:58 – 10:44

   Expectations vs. reality in fighting: why Gaethje avoids rigid predictions

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:58

      You said something about Ilia, about the fight, about having expectations, and you said you don't have any expectations when you fight.

   2. TWTrevor Wittman7:08

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:08

      That way you don't, you don't get thrown off.

   4. TWTrevor Wittman7:11

      Yeah. I mean, it's, it, it's huge. I mean, my expectations come from my hard work. Obviously, I expect my body to perform. Um, I understand that I've trained my mind to... And, you know, maybe the narcissistic tendencies in me love showing off and performing in front of, you know, thousands of people on that stage. That's, um, that's what I love the most about, about this, and that's what my personality... Like, I'm very competitive. I wanna win. Um, but I'm never gonna lie to myself, and that's how I... I've, I've never had a coach in my entire career, since four years old of wrestling, have to pull me aside and talk about the mental aspect of com- competition, because it's always been so natural to me. I'm not sure if... I'm not sure if it's because they, they see that I'm doing good and that they agree with my approach mentally, or they don't, they don't understand what's going on, or... But I've just always been so comfortable and so content with my situation of, you know, this is a competition, it's a game. You know, um, I'm very competitive, I'm very petty. I take everything personal. And yeah, when I go in there with ex- we... I have gone in with expectations. Um, and it's... I said it before the fight, you know, Ilia, like, I w- I said so many true things to him, and I think it was such a... It's such an asset to tell someone the brutal truth, especially someone like him, because it pushes him farther away from the truth. You know, he re- even if I tell him the, the exact truth and exactly what's gonna happen and, you know, "You're making a mistake by having all these expectations," and when we go to round two or when we go to round three and it's not going as you predicted it or wanted it to or expected it to, then where do you go from there? And, you know, I said that exact thing to him, and then that pushed him farther away from it. And, you know, I-

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:10

      It's almost like he wanted to prove you wrong.

   6. TWTrevor Wittman9:12

      Yeah. He wanted to pro- he wanted to prove himself right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:14

      Yeah.

   8. TWTrevor Wittman9:14

      You know? And he was unwilling to be open to opinions and... Because obviously I don't know him. He knows him better than himself. But, you know, I, uh, I got here 'cause I am coachable. I got here 'cause I listen. I use every, every... Like I, I posted yesterday, every person, place, or thing that has happened to me or for me has ultimately molded my mind and my body to be able to deal with the situation that happened on Sunday night. And, you know, I can, I can pull so much experience from the past, my losses, my wins, um, setbacks, failures, accomplishments. I mean, there is so much to learn from. Every, you know, every day is a learning experience, and I constantly try to learn and be better. And I don't know why I'm able to perform like that. I think, um, I just think it's who I am, you know? Um, when I, when I say I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, it's not that I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, the, the thought of that was fucking cool to me, you know? But I was just being me. And, um, I've been blessed to be able to, you know, through my, through my childhood to coming from a small town, through having, um, you know, unwavering support from my, my family and my friends and my coaches and my teachers and everybody from, you know, from... It's just crazy to, to be able to come out on top. I mean, it's just crazy.

5. 10:44 – 15:11

   Breaking down the fight’s turning point: body shots, the ground decision, and emptying the tank

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:44

      One of the things I think was a giant factor in the fight is that you have been in wars. You've been in a bunch of wars.

   2. TWTrevor Wittman10:52

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:52

      And Ilia really had only had some rough moments against Jai Herbert. Uh, you know, Yusuf Zalal gave him some problems, but it was nothing serious. The, the wars that you've been in, these just down and dirty brawls that you've been in, you, you're comfortable with the back and forth. You're comfortable with enduring. You, you know that you're not gonna break. You know, if your body holds up, you're gonna keep fighting-

   4. TWTrevor Wittman11:20

      Yeah

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:20

      ... and you can endure. I don't think he'd ever experienced that before. So when you didn't break in the second round... And I think he made a mistake, and I think you're correct about that. You said he made a mistake by going to the ground.

   6. TWTrevor Wittman11:32

      Absolutely.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:32

      And he hurt you to the body.

   8. TWTrevor Wittman11:33

      I told Trevor yesterday, I think, you know, um, him hurting to my body was the reason, one of the h- main reasons I won. You know, when he, when he hit me, it... When I dropped, it wasn't the first time he hit me in the body. That was probably like the fourth or fifth one, and he had landed some really clean shots, and he could probably sense that I was in trouble and hurt, and I think that fact made him dump everything.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:58

      Yeah.

   10. TWTrevor Wittman11:58

       Because it was his last chance to take me out, and he almost did take me out. But when I went down, y- in hindsi- it's always easy to make these decisions in hindsight, but when I went down, you know, he would... He's, he's had way more, more submissions than he has knockouts. And so for him not to have that belief that he's gonna be able to go down there, especially with the Khabib fight, especially with the Charles Oliveira fight, especially with all the negativity around my grappling there, you know, I think he would've been foolish not to, 'cause I would've stood back up

   11. JGJustin Gaethje12:27

       I would have stood back up and he would have charged forward, tried to finish me. I would have jumped on his legs. I would have pulled guard. He was going to end up on top of me no matter what. I wasn't going to sit there and trade with him again. Like I would have, you know, front rolled into, into grappling situations or whatever. I would have made him cover me. And, but I think me getting hit is what made him completely blow his, you know, Shane Carwin-esque, you know, blow his tank.

   12. TWTrevor Wittman12:52

       Yeah.

   13. JGJustin Gaethje12:52

       And, you know, go for the win. And I think that was the choice he had to make because it was going to continue to get worse. I beat his ass in the first round. Like it might've been close on the scorecards. I absolutely took the first round, but the amount of damage that I inflicted in the first round set up the rest of the fight.

   14. TWTrevor Wittman13:09

       I, I do think it was a mistake. And, and, and you're, you're saying, what you're saying is so correct. But what I'm saying is from a standpoint of him demanding it, he's going to finish you in the first two, understanding the damage that he was taking. He took big risks. He got in there. He kept his hands on your collarbones. He was landing really good shots. Yeah, the, the, the, the two body shots before that, that left hook to the liver, that, the sound it made was crazy. That last one was clean. It was precise and deep, but you could tell it was already there. But if he didn't put that pressure on his self, and this is what I mean by mistake, is like when you come out, you have to know that you're going five rounds. And he knew that he had to unleash everything right there. If, if he would have been smart in that scenario saying, "Hey, we got five rounds. Let me step back a little bit. Let me do some damage." But also he's like, "Hey, let me get you out of there quick. Justin, you know, can't grapple, can't do all these things," which a lot of people think, which Justin's a great grappler. And what was so smart about you is when you get tired, that's where the worst decisions happen, is that's one of my big things as coaching, is we get someone tired and then we make them make bad decisions and then the, then we capitalize on that, on those mistakes. Justin was able to stay so composed here with being speared to the body. And when you take a liver shot, it is way different than the headshot. A headshot's like taking a shot with your buddies at the bar. It's like, [laughs] "Hey, let's go." You know? But you take a body shot, you're dying. Like your liver shot, you feel like you're dying. And Justin, all the decisions he made on the ground, from the triangle, from the arm bar, from not being flat, so many good decisions were made in that scenario, and I do think it was a mistake. Obviously, there's so many different ways it could go, but those, those type of moments in fights are what make fights great, is overcoming obstacles. And he had set that up. He had said it. He's like, "Hey, I'm gonna overcome anything. I'm going out there to put the worst thing out there. Like what are you gonna do to me? I've already been knocked out the last second of a freaking huge fight by Max. Like you can't do nothing worse to me." And that mindset I think is, uh, you know, something to take away for all the fighters out there that

6. 15:11 – 18:20

   Damage, scoring, and Gaethje’s “war comfort”: what judges and stats miss

   1. TWTrevor Wittman15:11

      always, I love how you say it, expect a war always. Some of the biggest, uh, mistakes that I've made with fighters that I had is allowing them to think that they're gonna go through this fight easy, and then that fight becomes super hard. You think it's gonna be a war, then you're like, "Hey, it wasn't as bad as I was expected." Even if it was a little bit of a war.

   2. JGJustin Gaethje15:27

      You're not, you're not gonna help them in that moment.

   3. TWTrevor Wittman15:28

      Yeah.

   4. JGJustin Gaethje15:29

      There's no pulling them out.

   5. TWTrevor Wittman15:30

      That's fighting. Fighting, like fighting is, is mentality. I look at this like there's techniques out there and there's things like that. What makes this sport inspirational and makes someone want to go out there and beat cancer because they were inspired by a fighter, it's not the technical piece. It's getting back up, and it's okay to get knocked down. I love, I love watching people get knocked down because my favorite part is seeing how they get up, and that to me is why I love fighting, is how people get up.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:56

      Yeah, how they endure, and that was the big story of that second round, that you figured out a way to get through it, and the change in tempo in the third round was very obvious because the sprint that you have to make, like what Ilia did when he was trying to finish you, that, he, he used so much fucking energy. And the great Chael Sonnen once said that if you try to win by knockout and fail, you won't win by submission.

   7. JGJustin Gaethje16:20

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:20

      And a lot of times that's the case because you know as good as anybody, if you fucking sprint it hard, you wail on the bag with fucking everything you got for two minutes, and then they go, "Time," one minute's not enough. It's not enough.

   9. JGJustin Gaethje16:35

      No. Even in preparation-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       Even two minutes. They even two is-

   11. TWTrevor Wittman16:38

       Even two is, yeah

   12. JGJustin Gaethje16:38

       ... you're a little tired after that good loop.

   13. TWTrevor Wittman16:40

       That, that was crazy too.

   14. JGJustin Gaethje16:41

       Even in preparation-

   15. TWTrevor Wittman16:41

       That was crazy too. We'll talk about that

   16. JGJustin Gaethje16:42

       ... preparation for these fights, like I'm doing 20, 30, 40 second sprints at most. I mean, that was, that was a two-minute sprint for him.

   17. TWTrevor Wittman16:52

       Yes.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:52

       Yeah.

   19. TWTrevor Wittman16:53

       But full out.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:54

       Full out.

   21. JGJustin Gaethje16:54

       And there's, and there's no-

   22. TWTrevor Wittman16:55

       Full power. Everything full power. Every punch full power.

   23. JGJustin Gaethje16:58

       You can't even train for that.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:59

       Can't. You gotta have spots.

   25. TWTrevor Wittman17:00

       Right. And he didn't. He was just unloading. I mean, that's a young man with a tremendous amount of confidence because he's a two division world champion, and he thinks he's gonna go down as the greatest of all time. And hey, he might still.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       He still could.

   27. TWTrevor Wittman17:13

       He might still.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       Depends on when it comes back. Yeah.

   29. TWTrevor Wittman17:14

       What is he, 28?

   30. JGJustin Gaethje17:15

       The odds-
7. 18:20 – 21:58

   Injury talk and quality-of-life realities: broken orbitals, broken noses, and breathing issues

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:20

      The fight was lost before he got, even got in there. Um, physically, uh, now I don't know what the truth is, but all these reports are that he has two fractured orbitals and, uh, a broken nose Um, th- just that alone, just the orbitals alone, like any time you've got eye injuries, like anything severe with your eyes, long-term consequences vary. Y- you know, we-

   2. JGJustin Gaethje18:43

      Psychological.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:44

      Absolutely.

   4. TWTrevor Wittman18:45

      And physical.

   5. JGJustin Gaethje18:45

      Your body heals.

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:46

      And physical.

   7. JGJustin Gaethje18:46

      The body is resilient.

   8. TWTrevor Wittman18:48

      It is.

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:48

      Like, I'm telling you, I had a bro-

   10. JGJustin Gaethje18:49

       Broken bones make stronger bones. Like, that is w- his, his, his, his orbital bones will be stronger.

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:55

       It, it depends on where though-

   12. JGJustin Gaethje18:56

       They will be calcified

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:56

       ... Justin. The orbital bone, I had my orbital broken, and f- for six months I would do this and my tooth would move, and it's right where my sinus cavity is. You remember when you hit me with the spinning elbow?

   14. JGJustin Gaethje19:06

       Your tooth would move?

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:07

       Dude, I, I, I-

   16. JGJustin Gaethje19:07

       When you push on your cheek?

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:08

       Right here. Yeah, my tooth would move.

   18. JGJustin Gaethje19:10

       Oh.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:10

       Summer is great, but it also comes with a lot of chaos, travel, and spontaneous plans. So make sure you're taking extra care of yourself with AG1. It's a simple daily health drink that replaces your daily multivitamins, probiotics, prebiotics, adaptogens, and more. Plus, AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for potency, purity, and nutrient density. AG1 is clinically shown to close common nutrient gaps and support gut health to keep you going all summer long. Wherever this summer takes you, stay on top of your health with AG1. Visit drinkag1.com/joerogan, and for a limited time, get a free Morning Person hat and an AG1 flavor sampler for free in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's drinkag1.com/joerogan.

   20. JGJustin Gaethje20:06

       God.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:06

       I still feel the soft spot, but this is a very weak area where your sinus cavity is. That's a... And you, you broke both orbitals and the nose?

   22. JGJustin Gaethje20:13

       Dude, you ever seen Merab?

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:13

       Like, I do believe the body is resilient.

   24. JGJustin Gaethje20:15

       You ever seen Merab's nose?

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:17

       Like, yeah. Yeah.

   26. JGJustin Gaethje20:17

       You ever seen the X-ray of Merab's nose?

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:19

       Yeah, no. [laughs] Dude, did I send it to you, Kevin?

   28. TWTrevor Wittman20:21

       It looks like a spine-

   29. JGJustin Gaethje20:22

       Oh

   30. TWTrevor Wittman20:22

       ... 'cause it's been broken.
8. 21:58 – 34:26

   The Max Holloway loss as the last lesson: fear, focus, and being ‘too present’

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:58

      It's another factor that w- when we were talking about the fight, and, you know, people were talking about, um, this matchup with Ilia, I said, "You have to think about what he did to Fiziev." Fiziev is a super talented striker. And then you also have to think about the Max Holloway fight because he was pressing in the first round, but he got caught with a jump spinning back kick to the fucking face.

   2. JGJustin Gaethje22:20

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:20

      And when that was, that's a, that's a game changer. And it, it happened at the end of the first round, and from that it changed the tone of the fight because it was just dead on. It was perfect.

   4. JGJustin Gaethje22:30

      Yeah, and-

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:30

      Couldn't have landed any better. And it-

   6. JGJustin Gaethje22:32

      The truth of the matter is, is psychologically I was not, I was not there. I was not prepared mentally for the fight when I fought Max Holloway. It was such a different circumstance. It was, you know, a guy that wasn't in my weight class. It was a guy that I'd never thought about fighting. Um, it was for fun. And that whole, the whole experience was so different than any other fight I've ever had when it comes to, like, being mentally prepared for, for a fight.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:59

      What do you attribute that to? Like, what, was it-

   8. JGJustin Gaethje23:01

      Myself, my, my-

   9. TWTrevor Wittman23:03

      And us

   10. JGJustin Gaethje23:03

       ... my-

   11. TWTrevor Wittman23:03

       Like, we took, we took-

   12. JGJustin Gaethje23:04

       Yeah, my coaches

   13. TWTrevor Wittman23:04

       ... we told him to take the fight. He didn't want, he didn't wanna take the fight.

   14. JGJustin Gaethje23:07

       My coaches-

   15. TWTrevor Wittman23:07

       And then we told him that you're gonna keep the, the title contention fight, 'cause that's what they promised us. That's why he was very in- very-

   16. JGJustin Gaethje23:13

       Well, every one of you guys, every one of you was like, "Oh, something was different." It was like, "Well, why didn't you guys fucking say something before the fight?"

   17. TWTrevor Wittman23:18

       He, well, he told, you told me afterwards.

   18. JGJustin Gaethje23:19

       You guys are telling me after the fight.

   19. TWTrevor Wittman23:20

       Dude, you told me afterwards.

   20. JGJustin Gaethje23:20

       Like, I knew something was different, but, like, I needed to know.

   21. TWTrevor Wittman23:23

       He tells me afterwards.

   22. JGJustin Gaethje23:24

       I needed you guys to tell me.

   23. TWTrevor Wittman23:25

       He's like this, he's like, "I just didn't respect him." And I'm like, "How could you not respect Max?" And I didn't catch onto it, so it's like I'm always looking for flags and things like that. And 100%, I take 100% responsibility, 'cause that's how we learn. Everybody makes mistakes. I remember the Tony Ferguson fight, I didn't give any fucking water. You know? [laughs] Like, there's, like, things that we all learn from. But the thing, when he had told me that, I'm like, how did I not catch that, uh, from you? 'Cause he's like, "Dude," he, he was the smaller guy, just didn't... And, and I was like, dude, Max is, like, one of the guys that I look up to from the outside. Like, he is talented.

   24. JGJustin Gaethje23:55

       I remember thinking-

   25. TWTrevor Wittman23:56

       Like, super talented

   26. JGJustin Gaethje23:56

       ... what, what am I looking for? Like, what am I afraid of? I kept trying to convince myself that I need to be, I need to find what I was to be worried about, and I couldn't find it.

   27. JRJoe Rogan24:07

       So you always need that before a fight?

   28. JGJustin Gaethje24:09

       Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean-

   29. TWTrevor Wittman24:11

       No matter who it is, you're fighting.

   30. JRJoe Rogan24:12

       Right.
9. 34:26 – 39:02

   From brawler to champion: Wittman’s ‘fight in spots’ evolution and the red-line concept

   1. TWTrevor Wittman34:26

      I wanna talk about the shift that you made in your career from being the most exciting guy in the world, wanting to be the most exciting guy in the world, being happy with performing to the best of your ability, whether you win or lose, to wanting to get the belt. What, what was... What, what started that decision?

   2. JGJustin Gaethje34:44

      [sighs] It's weird 'cause I don't remember a time or a day where I made a change other than I'm not gonna get hit. You know, in the Dustin Poirier fight and the Eddie Alvarez fight, I, I absolutely almost broke them, and it was no different than any of my other fights. Nobody had just ever... Same with Ilia, you know. Like, nobody had ever got past it. Nobody had ever been able to withstand the ferocity of my actions for two or three rounds, and then those guys did, and I was like, "What happened?" You know? And ultimately I put myself in a position, and I got hit with a shot that, um, took me out of the fight. And so after those fights, I was like, "I have to not take these shots." And that was ultimately all I can say that I, that I changed mentally, is I'm gonna, I don't wanna get hit. I used to never care about getting hit 'cause it's like, doesn't hurt. Nothing hurts in there. You don't feel nothing. It, it's never hurt. And so that was really just the mindset. I just need to not let them get me in a predicament where I'm not able to, where they have to stop the fight.

   3. TWTrevor Wittman36:02

      So the shift, uh-

   4. JGJustin Gaethje36:03

      But he, he probably-

   5. TWTrevor Wittman36:04

      Yes, so

   6. JGJustin Gaethje36:05

      ... from a outside know- outside source perspective-

   7. TWTrevor Wittman36:06

      Yeah, it's, it's definitely there, there was a shift, and it wasn't just, like, an instant shift. It was the two losses in a row with Eddie and Poirier, uh, where he's like, "I'm winning these fights, and I need to be able to get to the distance." And I was like, "All right. We gotta become a spot fighter 'cause you just drown people, and you're, you, what's happening is you're making mistakes." We threw a low kick against Poirier, and he got caught 'cause he faced back lazy with his shoulders above his, his hips. So I was like, "All right. Let's be sharp. Let's fight in spots." Then he goes on a three-fight win streak where he's finding the right spots and putting people out from, from Vick to, uh, uh, Barboza into Cowboy Cerrone, and that's where he's like... And then I, I sat down with him, and I was like, "Do you wanna be a champion?" And I was like, "This is how you have to fight."

   8. TWTrevor Wittman36:50

      To be a champion is be smart. And he never said he, he never said he didn't wanna be the most exciting fighter to watch. He would tell me after fights, he's like, "I'm not even trying to fight excited, but look at me."

   9. JRJoe Rogan37:00

      [laughs]

   10. TWTrevor Wittman37:00

       And it's like fucking, like it's so basic. Like it's in him. It's just how do we, how do we get you to sprint 50 yards, pull back for 100 yards and jog, and then sprint for 50 yards and like be able to know your, your, your, your red line. Don't, don't cross over that red line. Don't hold red line.

   11. JRJoe Rogan37:15

       Well, that, that is again the experience that you found in war.

   12. TWTrevor Wittman37:18

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan37:18

       So it's such... It was so critical in how you fight.

   14. TWTrevor Wittman37:20

       Yeah. He could do it, but-

   15. JRJoe Rogan37:21

       Yeah

   16. TWTrevor Wittman37:21

       ... you don't wanna make mistakes.

   17. JGJustin Gaethje37:22

       I do think, and it is, I think it's crazy. I think, um, again, the fact that they said that he had outstruck me in the first round 39 to 32 or something. He-

   18. JRJoe Rogan37:29

       You landed some hard jabs in that first round.

   19. JGJustin Gaethje37:31

       Yeah, but-

   20. TWTrevor Wittman37:32

       Yeah, there's... Yours were devastating.

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:34

       They were hard.

   22. TWTrevor Wittman37:34

       He might have touched and stunned.

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:35

       They were thunderous jabs.

   24. JGJustin Gaethje37:35

       But I'm talking about the perception.

   25. TWTrevor Wittman37:38

       Yeah.

   26. JGJustin Gaethje37:39

       It looks like I'm getting hit. It looks like it... But I mean, my... I don't have special skin. I am able to see punches and-

   27. TWTrevor Wittman37:49

       And roll with them and yeah

   28. JGJustin Gaethje37:49

       ... and roll with punches. If you watch my f- f- you know, fights frame by frame, I'm not getting hit for the most part.

   29. JRJoe Rogan37:55

       You're moving with the punches.

   30. JGJustin Gaethje37:57

       Yeah, yeah.
10. 39:02 – 43:38

    Team chemistry and chaos off-camera: Luke Rockhold stories, golf, and the “drunk sparring” prank

    1. TWTrevor Wittman39:02

       for Luke Rockhold.

    2. JGJustin Gaethje39:02

       He didn't let... He don't let me kick him no more.

    3. TWTrevor Wittman39:04

       Luke Rockhold. God, dude, Luke Rockhold would just take kicks.

    4. JRJoe Rogan39:06

       Bro, let me tell you something about Luke.

    5. JGJustin Gaethje39:06

       I kick him. He has his pad on, he has his pad on. I kick him and his, his nuts swell up.

    6. TWTrevor Wittman39:10

       Dude, I get blue balls, bro.

    7. JGJustin Gaethje39:11

       And so I can't kick him no more.

    8. TWTrevor Wittman39:12

       Dude, there's a nerve on the inside of your leg.

    9. JRJoe Rogan39:14

       [laughs]

    10. TWTrevor Wittman39:14

        I talked to a doctor about it, 'cause I'm like, "Bro, like he kicks people and they bruise on the inside of their leg." And it's 'cause the shock through, but there's a nerve on the inside of the leg. I'd go home and I'd tell my wife, I'm like, "Babe, I got fucking blue balls." [laughs]

    11. JRJoe Rogan39:24

        That's hilarious.

    12. TWTrevor Wittman39:24

        And she's like, "From who?" And I'm like, "Justin." She looks at me like... [laughs]

    13. JRJoe Rogan39:27

        [laughs]

    14. JGJustin Gaethje39:27

        [laughs]

    15. JRJoe Rogan39:27

        The fuck you got blue balls from Justin for? One of the things you were doing early in your career that I always thought was so wild was you were leg kicking people from a collar tie.

    16. JGJustin Gaethje39:36

        Yep.

    17. TWTrevor Wittman39:36

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan39:36

        Like you were leg kick.

    19. TWTrevor Wittman39:37

        Base them down.

    20. JRJoe Rogan39:37

        And I was like, oh my goodness.

    21. TWTrevor Wittman39:38

        Make them put weight on it.

    22. JRJoe Rogan39:39

        I'm like, how come no one's doing that? Like you were one of the only guys that I saw that was doing that, that was from the clench, was leg kicking. You've got some fucking flexible hips, man.

    23. TWTrevor Wittman39:49

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan39:49

        Because the way you were able to do that from like right in tight like this, and then, and not just-

    25. JGJustin Gaethje39:54

        You pull them to it

    26. JRJoe Rogan39:54

        ... throw the leg out.

    27. JGJustin Gaethje39:55

        You pull.

    28. JRJoe Rogan39:55

        You're whipping into it.

    29. TWTrevor Wittman39:56

        Yeah. He, he pulls them to their lead leg.

    30. JRJoe Rogan39:58

        Mm-hmm.
11. 43:38 – 51:19

    Fighting outdoors at the White House: humidity, unpredictability, and rehearsals gone wrong

    1. JRJoe Rogan43:38

       You were using the sauna in between workouts as well.

    2. TWTrevor Wittman43:41

       Yep. And before.

    3. JRJoe Rogan43:41

       And-

    4. TWTrevor Wittman43:41

       And so we were-

    5. JGJustin Gaethje43:42

       Nothing... That shit sucked. I say it was perfect, you say it was perfect. It was not.

    6. TWTrevor Wittman43:47

       It was hard.

    7. JGJustin Gaethje43:47

       It was detrimental to our performances.

    8. JRJoe Rogan43:49

       Outside.

    9. JGJustin Gaethje43:49

       Yes.

    10. JRJoe Rogan43:49

        Yeah.

    11. JGJustin Gaethje43:49

        The humidity was there. I didn't realize it, because obviously it's not, you know, it's not something I can worry about right now, but after round one I just remember thinking, "Oh, fuck. I am so tired right now. How, how is this possible?" And the amount of, the amount of fluid I lost was-

    12. JRJoe Rogan44:05

        Thank God it wasn't hot

    13. JGJustin Gaethje44:05

        ... I probably lost like 15 pound.

    14. JRJoe Rogan44:06

        Yeah.

    15. TWTrevor Wittman44:06

        'Cause it was in the 70s.

    16. JRJoe Rogan44:08

        Dude.

    17. JGJustin Gaethje44:08

        Yeah, 70s with the cool breeze. You know, when you go out there-

    18. JRJoe Rogan44:10

        Yeah

    19. JGJustin Gaethje44:10

        ... what you feel is the, the cool breeze, but-

    20. JRJoe Rogan44:12

        Just heavy air though

    21. JGJustin Gaethje44:13

        ... in the, in the fight, man-

    22. JRJoe Rogan44:14

        Heavy air

    23. JGJustin Gaethje44:14

        ... it was, it was different.

    24. JRJoe Rogan44:15

        Yeah. I hated the fact that it was gonna happen, but I'm glad it did.

    25. TWTrevor Wittman44:18

        Yeah, me too.

    26. JGJustin Gaethje44:19

        I'm g- again, I, I would not ch- again, I think-

    27. JRJoe Rogan44:21

        How could you change it?

    28. JGJustin Gaethje44:22

        It affects me, it affects him, you know.

    29. JRJoe Rogan44:24

        I know.

    30. JGJustin Gaethje44:24

        Again, I grew up in the country. He's, he's a city boy. There's no way he's not a city boy. I don't know him personally, but there's no way he's not a city boy, you know. And so as a country, country boy from the desert in Arizona, like, I was hoping that it would be-
12. 51:19 – 1:10:03

    Referee decisions and the fight’s finish: Goddard letting it continue and Ilia ‘quitting twice’

    1. JRJoe Rogan51:19

       was fucking huge- Yeah, it's huge ... because the second round was crazy. It was like- Yeah ... "Oh, no, it's getting..." And letting it go on again- Yeah ... when, when, so our corner, all the coaches were like, "Dude, they're gonna stop it." And I was, said out loud, I was like, "Please let it go on." Mm. And I just wanted a fini- like a, like a- Definitive ending ... dude, 'cause that would've been a point where it's like, especially with him going, "Hey, I wanna go and continue," and then we have Goddard come out and say, "You are-" Thank God for Mark Goddard. Yeah. Okay? 'Cause if it wasn't for Mark Goddard, if another less experienced referee- He wanted out. You think he did?

    2. JGJustin Gaethje51:48

       He, he wanted out.

    3. JRJoe Rogan51:49

       Yeah? You don't-

    4. JGJustin Gaethje51:50

       You don't s- you know for a fact you do not ever as a fighter say, "I cannot see." It's over.

    5. JRJoe Rogan51:56

       Right.

    6. JGJustin Gaethje51:56

       And he was counting on that. He said he had already stated it. He didn't need to say it again. He did not think there was, I don't think he thought there was gonna fight back out there.

    7. JRJoe Rogan52:01

       So you think that he called Goddard a turkey internally? He was like, when he said, "Oh, you're gonna go fight," he's like-

    8. JGJustin Gaethje52:06

       No, I mean-

    9. JRJoe Rogan52:07

       ... "Hey, I was playing that, though."

    10. JGJustin Gaethje52:08

        ... in that moment he just like, "I've done, you know, I've, I'm, I've tried..." And it might've been, like, you know, the little devil on his shoulder trying to get him out, and then he reevaluated and rethunk it and understood that he had to keep fighting.

    11. JRJoe Rogan52:20

        Did you say thunk? Thunk it.

    12. JGJustin Gaethje52:21

        Rethunk it.

    13. JRJoe Rogan52:22

        Dude, that's the dumbest idea.

    14. JGJustin Gaethje52:23

        But I think, I, I s-

    15. JRJoe Rogan52:24

        Really? That's a real word?

    16. JGJustin Gaethje52:25

        I stopped him.

    17. JRJoe Rogan52:25

        No.

    18. JGJustin Gaethje52:25

        I s-

    19. JRJoe Rogan52:26

        [laughs]

    20. JGJustin Gaethje52:27

        I stopped him, I stopped-

    21. JRJoe Rogan52:28

        Paul's like, "What was it?" [laughs]

    22. JGJustin Gaethje52:29

        I stopped him twice. I stopped him twice that night.

    23. JRJoe Rogan52:32

        Right.

    24. JGJustin Gaethje52:32

        There's no doubt about it.

    25. JRJoe Rogan52:33

        That's interesting. I loved it. Yeah. I loved it. This episode is brought to you by onX Offroad. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes or tucked away dispersed campsites? With onX Offroad, you'll find legal open trails around you, and even better, guided trails mapped by real off-roaders. Each one includes photos, terrain descriptions, and difficulty ratings, so you'll know if your vehicle's capable before you go. Unlike other apps, onX gives you turn-by-turn directions on the trail, and their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp. You also get private land boundaries, public land overlays, and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing, even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off-roaders. Try onX Offroad for 50% off. Go to onXmaps.com/joerogan. Well, it was, um, it was a big factor that Goddard let it go on, because then we got to see that epic fourth round, which is fucking crazy, which was just, in the end when you landed that knee to the body, that was, like, the final- Oh, yeah ... that was it. That knee to the body was nasty.

    26. JGJustin Gaethje53:46

        And then the punch is right where he landed that heavy knee, that he just starts chopping it where he's got the elbow in.

    27. JRJoe Rogan53:51

        Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then, then he has to quit on a stool. And if Goddard had just given to that referee or the judges or the, the doctor's rather desires, here it is. Oh. I love how you punch right here, right on the spot.

    28. JGJustin Gaethje54:05

        Yeah, he fell.

    29. JRJoe Rogan54:06

        Oh, right there, yeah. Oh, right where I just left. [laughs] Yeah, he did not like that. Oh. And that was the end. Crazy fight. Now, I mean-

    30. JGJustin Gaethje54:16

        It's crazy how different... So again, being a fan of the sport, I've got to watch, you know, I would've usually watched this from... And yeah, it would've been the most fucking incredible thing ever. Being the fighter, you know, you're really not appreciating any of that, because you're so locked into-
13. 1:10:03 – 1:12:19

    What’s next for Ilia and the division: confidence myths, weight, and “no rematch” stance

    1. TWTrevor Wittman1:10:03

       does, 'cause he's, he's, he's that talented. If he takes the right lessons, that's gonna be a super inspirational thing to overcome. It's gonna be hard, but I w- I, I sure hope we get to witness that.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:10:14

       I wonder if he's gonna stay at 155.

    3. TWTrevor Wittman1:10:17

       I don't... Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:10:17

       There are big guys at 155.

    5. TWTrevor Wittman1:10:19

       Right.

    6. JGJustin Gaethje1:10:20

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:10:20

       And he's, he wasn't that big for 45. You know?

    8. TWTrevor Wittman1:10:24

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:10:24

       You think about weight cutting in the modern era. Like, you were, you're considerably bigger than him. When you guys were standing next to each other, I'm like-

    10. JGJustin Gaethje1:10:30

        Yeah, you could tell

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:10:30

        ... this is, there's a, a big difference in frame.

    12. JGJustin Gaethje1:10:32

        I've also really focused on getting bigger the last three or four fights.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:10:36

        Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    14. JGJustin Gaethje1:10:37

        Yeah. I mean, I f-

    15. TWTrevor Wittman1:10:38

        You were 183 in a Patty fight

    16. JGJustin Gaethje1:10:40

        ... the night, the night of weigh- Yeah, I was 183 when the fight started.

    17. TWTrevor Wittman1:10:41

        183 in a Patty fight, so he was, he was big.

    18. JGJustin Gaethje1:10:44

        I touched, I touched 180s this fight. Uh, we weighed in on Saturday at 11:00. Saturday when I went to bed I think I was 184.

    19. TWTrevor Wittman1:10:51

        Oh, wow.

    20. JGJustin Gaethje1:10:52

        And then, and then I think when I woke up, I was like 176. That's how much wa- we're flowing. It's crazy. [laughs] Our bodies are crazy.

    21. TWTrevor Wittman1:10:59

        [laughs]

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:10:59

        Right, especially because all the weight cutting, right?

    23. JGJustin Gaethje1:11:00

        But I think when I got there, I was pissing so much. I was actually too hydrated for the drug test, so I had to piss three, three times. I couldn't drink water. Um-

    24. TWTrevor Wittman1:11:09

        You were too hydrated for a drug test? How's that work?

    25. JGJustin Gaethje1:11:12

        Yeah. So if, if the piss is too diluted, then they make you do it again.

    26. TWTrevor Wittman1:11:16

        Really?

    27. JGJustin Gaethje1:11:17

        Yeah.

    28. TWTrevor Wittman1:11:17

        That's, that's why, you know, doing it after a fight's-

    29. JGJustin Gaethje1:11:19

        They do like a-

    30. TWTrevor Wittman1:11:19

        I used to do it after the fights all the time
14. 1:12:19 – 1:15:03

    Weight cutting, dehydration fears, and safety: brain health, cramps, and structural fixes

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:12:19

       Well, I think there's two things we have to change in the fight game. One of them is weight cutting, and two of them is your gloves.

    2. TWTrevor Wittman1:12:24

       Absolutely.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:12:24

       You gotta bring your fucking gloves in.

    4. TWTrevor Wittman1:12:25

       Yeah. Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:12:26

       But the weight cutting thing, don't you think that we need more weight classes?

    6. TWTrevor Wittman1:12:30

       Uh, I, I should say that-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:12:32

       So I-

    8. TWTrevor Wittman1:12:32

       I should say, do you think we need more weight classes?

    9. JGJustin Gaethje1:12:34

       So-

    10. TWTrevor Wittman1:12:34

        I think there's, there's, there's many ways. Like I, I think you're gonna have to have some type of a, a, a, a weight class, and there's different ways to do it. Like maybe you, you have where you can't go over a certain amount of weight after you make weight, and you weigh in a week out where you can really recover, because-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:12:49

        But I think guys are gonna do it anyway, and you're just gonna have bad performances

    12. JGJustin Gaethje1:12:52

        They are, but I think, I think for me, I want nothing to change. I mean, we are grown-ass men and women, and we're making these choices.

    13. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:01

        Right, but you can make 55 and it's good for your frame. Now imagine these guys that are tweener.

    14. JGJustin Gaethje1:13:04

        You don't understand how hard it is for me to make 55.

    15. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:06

        Yeah. I'm sure it's hard. No, no, no, I'm not thinking it's easy. But you can make it.

    16. JGJustin Gaethje1:13:09

        I don't wa-

    17. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:09

        You've made it over and over and over again

    18. JGJustin Gaethje1:13:10

        ... ever want to do it again.

    19. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:11

        But, like, think about guys that are in between.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:13:13

        Yeah.

    21. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:14

        Like there's, there's-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:13:15

        Should be a 60, 60 or, or a 65-

    23. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:16

        Right

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:13:16

        ... or like in boxing now.

    25. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:17

        70 to 85 is crazy.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:13:18

        Yeah.

    27. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:18

        85 to 205 is bananas.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:13:21

        Right. Yeah.

    29. TWTrevor Wittman1:13:21

        And then 205 to 265-

    30. JGJustin Gaethje1:13:22

        Yeah, but those di-
15. 1:15:03 – 1:26:33

    Gaethje’s mindset engine: no water in training, haters as fuel, faith, and accountability

    1. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:03

       you just de- took all the nutrients out of your body, and then you're going hard in a fight like that. And that was, like, the big thing with the Tony Ferguson fight that's kind of funny now, but it wasn't funny to me. I didn't give him no [laughs] fucking water for a five-round fight. That is crazy. And the, the longer you take your brain to that point of dehydration, that's scary thing-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:19

       Why didn't you give him water? You just forgot?

    3. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:20

       Dude.

    4. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:21

       Yeah, we were locked in.

    5. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:21

       This guy don't train with water, so it's like, dude-

    6. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:23

       Yeah, I don't drink water

    7. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:24

       ... I trained myself-

    8. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:24

       I don't drink water in practice 'cause everyone's like, "You want water?" I'm like, "Water's for pussies."

    9. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:27

       [laughs]

    10. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:28

        "No, I don't want water."

    11. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:30

        Talk about the mindset.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:15:30

        You don't drink any water in training at all?

    13. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:33

        No.

    14. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:33

        He'll drink afterwards. Like he, we did this fight. Like, like-

    15. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:35

        They made me this fight

    16. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:36

        ... we did. I forced him.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:15:36

        Okay, so do you think that that- Yeah ... that just helps your mental t-

    18. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:38

        Luke is my water boy.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:15:39

        Yeah.

    20. TWTrevor Wittman1:15:39

        [laughs]

    21. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:41

        No, because I... It doesn't, it can't... 'Cause I'm fucking working right now. I'm locked in. Like, I might not get water one day, you know? There might... I might want water, but-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:15:51

        Even when you're doing strength and conditioning, everything?

    23. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:53

        Nothing. I never drink water if I'm practicing.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:15:55

        Wow. So you make sure you're hydrated before you get in there.

    25. JGJustin Gaethje1:15:57

        And I drink a lot after. And-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:15:59

        But once you're in there, you're just going.

    27. JGJustin Gaethje1:16:01

        I will not drink water.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:16:02

        Yeah, this, this, this fight was different, but yeah. That's crazy.

    29. TWTrevor Wittman1:16:04

        Crazy. That's crazy.

    30. JGJustin Gaethje1:16:05

        That's just me. That's just me-
16. 1:26:33 – 1:57:46

    Future plans, health, and money: taking time off, injuries, and compensation philosophy

    1. JGJustin Gaethje1:26:33

       Right now I'm planning on it.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:26:34

       Yeah.

    3. JGJustin Gaethje1:26:34

       Every-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:26:34

       'Cause you were talking about-

    5. JGJustin Gaethje1:26:35

       Again, I know-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:26:35

       ... going out with that fight

    7. JGJustin Gaethje1:26:36

       ... I don't have, again, there's not, there's not something natural in me that feels like it's over.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:26:41

       Mm.

    9. JGJustin Gaethje1:26:42

       So that's all I can say.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:26:43

        Also, after a performance like that-

    11. JGJustin Gaethje1:26:46

        Yeah, I mean, I'll obviously perform even better-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:26:47

        Either, either way though

    13. JGJustin Gaethje1:26:48

        ... the best, the best-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:26:48

        Either way. Either way

    15. TWTrevor Wittman1:26:49

        Also capitalize-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:26:50

        Yeah

    17. TWTrevor Wittman1:26:50

        ... 'cause the financial rewards-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:26:52

        Financial rewards

    19. TWTrevor Wittman1:26:52

        ... financially.

    20. JGJustin Gaethje1:26:52

        Yeah, but I'm in a, I'm in a place where it's like I deserve to be compensated for what I have done.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:26:59

        100%.

    22. JGJustin Gaethje1:27:00

        Not for what I'm going to do or I don't, I shouldn't have to fight next to be c- like, UFC 300, UFC 324, and now this. Those are the biggest stages that the UFC needed somebody to, to do something phenomenal, and they picked me every single time and, and I delivered. I wasn't the main event of UFC 300, but co-main event, still stole the show even though I lost. And so f- I think I, I need to be compensated for the, for what I've done. That's where I'm at.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:27:30

        So you're talking about-

    24. JGJustin Gaethje1:27:31

        I talked about in the-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:27:31

        ... in the future for, like, a next fight?

    26. JGJustin Gaethje1:27:33

        Like-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:27:34

        Yeah, renegotiate-

    28. JGJustin Gaethje1:27:35

        No, no, not-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:27:36

        ... my friend

    30. JGJustin Gaethje1:27:36

        ... no, no, no, I'm not talking about for the next fight. I'm talking about the UFC should make a company and give me equity in that company and, you know, so I can build passive income like that. Like, I'm not saying that's what, that's what they need to do.
17. 1:57:46 – 2:12:12

    The glove crusade: Wittman’s OnX design vs UFC gloves, hand health, and reducing eye pokes

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:57:46

       Trevor, let's talk about those gloves. What the fuck do we have to do to get your gloves into the UFC? It doesn't make any sense that we're using inferior gloves.

    2. JGJustin Gaethje1:57:54

       Wait, w- I want, obviously-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:57:57

       Go ahead

    4. JGJustin Gaethje1:57:57

       ... I wanna talk about this, but the gloves I fought in this week were different.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:58:01

       They are?

    6. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:02

       They felt, they, it was a-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:58:03

       They weren't different

    8. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:04

       ... so different

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:58:04

       ... the leather was different

    10. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:04

        ... it was, it was the same, same glove. The leather was different. It was a little bit thicker I think, and so it was softer. And so every time I've ever fought, I've had the most excruciating pain in between my hands right here, and I didn't feel that at all this fight.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:58:19

        Mm.

    12. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:19

        So that means they were thicker.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:58:20

        So that means they were thicker. So it's like if you have s- like a, a thinner material going through, it's gonna cut through the skin- Right

    14. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:24

        ... a little easier. So this was thicker.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:58:25

        Or tighter.

    16. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:25

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:58:26

        Tighter material.

    18. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:26

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:58:27

        This was looser.

    20. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:28

        Mm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:58:28

        Because it was thicker. It was weird. So it was better.

    22. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:32

        Better.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:58:32

        Better for that feeling that all fighters get in their hands.

    24. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:34

        Better for comfortability. Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:58:36

        Yeah.

    26. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:36

        Like, you guys have no idea how uncomfortable we are when we walk in there.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:58:38

        You're always, like, pulling on the glove to pull it back. It's like getting a hand wrap too tight and you get those little things between you. It's like-

    28. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:43

        Yeah, you're constantly pulling on the tongue here to try to get-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:58:44

        So you make a fist-

    30. JGJustin Gaethje1:58:45

        ... try to get the pressure

Episode duration: 2:17:39