JRE MMA Show #181 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

Joe Rogan 0:00 [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Trevor Wittman 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Gentlemen, first of all, thank you for being here. I couldn't wait to talk to you. Congratulations on one of the most epic accomplishments in the history of combat sports, and that's not an understatement. I mean, it might be an understatement. I may- it's not an overstatement. It's perfect. That was one of the greatest nights I've ever experienced of watching anything in my life.

Justin Gaethje 0:30 Mm.

Joe Rogan 0:30 It was amazing. And to have you cap it off and win the title when you're facing a guy that everybody thought was at least number two pound for pound. It was, like, him and Islam are number one and number two.

Justin Gaethje 0:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:44 And some odds had you at six to one, which I thought was very disrespectful. I thought, I thought like, "Oh, like, this is crazy. Like, six to one's crazy. Like, Ilia's really good, but so is Justin. This is kind of nuts." Like, the... To have you win the way you won in front of the fucking White House.

Justin Gaethje 1:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05 How does it feel?

Justin Gaethje 1:07 Oh, you know, it's really not real yet. Um, I was expecting to have, like, um, an internal sense of relief that, like, I don't have something to chase, 'cause I was always chasing this belt. And I was expecting to wake up with, like, some kind of natural release of pressure, but I don't know. I, I don't feel that. I... As the days go by, every day I, I feel it a little bit more, a little bit more. Two days ago my dad was like, you know, "What is it, what was it like waking up being the champion?" And I like, I was like, "I haven't even thought about that." And then I was, you know, on the shitter like 10 minutes later, and I was sitting there thinking about it. I was like-

Joe Rogan 1:45 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:45 "Wow, I'm the fucking champion." Like, it's fucking crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:49 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:50 And yeah, it's just... I mean, I've just been on the grind for so many years now. My dad dropped me off 19 years ago in Colorado. I knew nobody, uh, to wrestle. And yeah, to see, to see where I'm at now is just absolutely incredible. I mean, there's really no way to explain how or why, you know? Or, like, why I deserve it or wh- I mean, I worked my ass off. I have made mistakes. You know, I've done things the wrong way, but I've always corrected and got back on the path. And you know, I think the, the coaches, the mentors, but mostly the coaches that I've been, you know, and the team that I have around me is, is a huge reason why I was able to stay on track and, and just keep, keep moving forward and keep trusting that, you know, I c- I belong in, in the top of the league.

Joe Rogan 2:41 Well, you, you've clearly-

Justin Gaethje 2:42 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:42 ... shown it throughout your career. And having a great coach like Trevor, and one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you in Trevor, is 'cause you guys have a very unique relationship.

Justin Gaethje 2:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:50 First of all, I love the YouTube series, The Art of Violence.

Justin Gaethje 2:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:53 Fantastic. And what's great is watching you co- two guys work together, and Trevor, you being like very acutely aware of when to pull him back, when to ramp it up, when to push. Like, you're, you guys, having a relationship like that is so critical because-

Justin Gaethje 3:10 Mm

Joe Rogan 3:10 ... you guys know each other so well. You've seen him perform so many times. You've seen him fight and perform in the gym-

Justin Gaethje 3:17 Mm

Joe Rogan 3:17 ... that you know where he's at all the time. And having that sense of w- where your fighter is at any given time in camp, 'cause you know him so well.

Justin Gaethje 3:26 Mm.

Joe Rogan 3:26 Boy, that's a giant advantage.

Trevor Wittman 3:28 It is. Uh-

Joe Rogan 3:29 Whoop. Hold on.

Trevor Wittman 3:30 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Just, there we go. Now we're-

Trevor Wittman 3:35 Te- testes. Testes went through.

Joe Rogan 3:36 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 3:37 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 3:38 Yeah, I think, uh, uh, that's a huge advantage is, is knowing your athlete. And, uh, you know, I've been doing this for a long period of time, but there's lots of coaches out there that consider their fighters their friends. I do consider him one of my best friends, but I, I put myself more in, like, a father position of I need to know when to tell him the truth, and I've got myself in trouble with that, uh, with fighters. Where you tell them the truth so hard that you have to let them go. Like a child, like, "Hey, if we're, we're not on the same beliefs, go live life and see how it is, and then when you return, I'm still gonna love you." Uh, having that type of thing where I have to be dead honest for your career, not because it, it helps us now and it feels good right now at the moment. I have to look at that-

Joe Rogan 4:17 Right

Trevor Wittman 4:17 ... from, from the time that we start and we talk about, you know, what are his goals, and then my job is to be an advisor, be a mentor to get him to that place as best as I can. Because these are his goals, and I want to support those. And in the beginning of his career his, his goals were to be the, the, the, the most violent guy out there, the most remembered, the guy that s- every time someone bought a, a ticket, they remembered Justin Gaethje selling that show. And, uh, then it turned into, "No, I wanna have this belt." And that was hard because we did go and, uh, not get the belt twice. And you, you know, it's so cool to be in kind of those scenarios where it's like, "Damn, you had two o- opportunities. Now it's never gonna happen." And that's what life is. Life is one of those things that you keep getting up and chase your goals. You never know g- how it's gonna happen. And yes, you want to dream and you want to have a, a, a, you want to have a plan. But I'll tell you right now, through all the d- the times that I've had championship fighters in business, in, in, in life, the plans never work. You always have to adjust them. But it's that dream and that vision. To get you to the top of the stairs, you have to get up each one of those steps. So, you know, Justin went out there and wrote a story that I don't think will ever be forgotten, and he did it one round at a time, and that's what impresses me because his mindset, I love the mental game. I love to l- to talk about the mental game. Even, like, Ilia. Ilia's a special guy with how he uses his mental, the secret, the, the, "If I see it, I believe it, it'll happen." To a point. [laughs] You know?

Joe Rogan 5:47 [laughs] That's it. Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 5:47 It's like, I always tell people, like, if you want... If you go down the ice cream aisle and you're like, "Hey, I don't know what ice cream I want," you're gonna stand there and go, "Oh, that one looks good. That one looks good. That one looks bet-" The people that are like, "I want mint chocolate chip," you get in there, you get it done, you grab that mint chocolate chip and you walk out. Very similar to Ilia's last three fights. He went out there and he, he, he demanded what he wanted. His confidence got him through that But it makes it very hard when you get that stale, nasty, rotten milk fucking mint chocolate chip.

Joe Rogan 6:12 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 6:12 So you start to go, "Oh, shit. What is gonna happen now?" So I think, uh, the relationship that we have is me guiding him, me pulling him back at, at the strictly situation, "Hey, let's pull back a little bit. Let's, let's focus on what's going on. I don't want no distractions." And having someone... And he trusts that I care about him. I, I love him to death. I love his family. Like, our relationship is so strong, and I need that with my athletes. And, uh, I'm just bl- blessed and 100... You know, I say honored, but more, more importantly humbled by someone who I've never worked mental with, who shows me different ways to the mental game of fighting, which I feel I have very high level with, is it's something that if you put some- put yourself around people that make you better, this guy makes me better daily, and I'm very grateful for that.

Joe Rogan 6:58 You said something about Ilia, about the fight, about having expectations, and you said you don't have any expectations when you fight.

Trevor Wittman 7:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:08 That way you don't, you don't get thrown off.

Trevor Wittman 7:11 Yeah. I mean, it's, it, it's huge. I mean, my expectations come from my hard work. Obviously, I expect my body to perform. Um, I understand that I've trained my mind to... And, you know, maybe the narcissistic tendencies in me love showing off and performing in front of, you know, thousands of people on that stage. That's, um, that's what I love the most about, about this, and that's what my personality... Like, I'm very competitive. I wanna win. Um, but I'm never gonna lie to myself, and that's how I... I've, I've never had a coach in my entire career, since four years old of wrestling, have to pull me aside and talk about the mental aspect of com- competition, because it's always been so natural to me. I'm not sure if... I'm not sure if it's because they, they see that I'm doing good and that they agree with my approach mentally, or they don't, they don't understand what's going on, or... But I've just always been so comfortable and so content with my situation of, you know, this is a competition, it's a game. You know, um, I'm very competitive, I'm very petty. I take everything personal. And yeah, when I go in there with ex- we... I have gone in with expectations. Um, and it's... I said it before the fight, you know, Ilia, like, I w- I said so many true things to him, and I think it was such a... It's such an asset to tell someone the brutal truth, especially someone like him, because it pushes him farther away from the truth. You know, he re- even if I tell him the, the exact truth and exactly what's gonna happen and, you know, "You're making a mistake by having all these expectations," and when we go to round two or when we go to round three and it's not going as you predicted it or wanted it to or expected it to, then where do you go from there? And, you know, I said that exact thing to him, and then that pushed him farther away from it. And, you know, I-

Joe Rogan 9:10 It's almost like he wanted to prove you wrong.

Trevor Wittman 9:12 Yeah. He wanted to pro- he wanted to prove himself right.

Joe Rogan 9:14 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 9:14 You know? And he was unwilling to be open to opinions and... Because obviously I don't know him. He knows him better than himself. But, you know, I, uh, I got here 'cause I am coachable. I got here 'cause I listen. I use every, every... Like I, I posted yesterday, every person, place, or thing that has happened to me or for me has ultimately molded my mind and my body to be able to deal with the situation that happened on Sunday night. And, you know, I can, I can pull so much experience from the past, my losses, my wins, um, setbacks, failures, accomplishments. I mean, there is so much to learn from. Every, you know, every day is a learning experience, and I constantly try to learn and be better. And I don't know why I'm able to perform like that. I think, um, I just think it's who I am, you know? Um, when I, when I say I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, it's not that I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, the, the thought of that was fucking cool to me, you know? But I was just being me. And, um, I've been blessed to be able to, you know, through my, through my childhood to coming from a small town, through having, um, you know, unwavering support from my, my family and my friends and my coaches and my teachers and everybody from, you know, from... It's just crazy to, to be able to come out on top. I mean, it's just crazy.

Joe Rogan 10:44 One of the things I think was a giant factor in the fight is that you have been in wars. You've been in a bunch of wars.

Trevor Wittman 10:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:52 And Ilia really had only had some rough moments against Jai Herbert. Uh, you know, Yusuf Zalal gave him some problems, but it was nothing serious. The, the wars that you've been in, these just down and dirty brawls that you've been in, you, you're comfortable with the back and forth. You're comfortable with enduring. You, you know that you're not gonna break. You know, if your body holds up, you're gonna keep fighting-

Trevor Wittman 11:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 11:20 ... and you can endure. I don't think he'd ever experienced that before. So when you didn't break in the second round... And I think he made a mistake, and I think you're correct about that. You said he made a mistake by going to the ground.

Trevor Wittman 11:32 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 11:32 And he hurt you to the body.

Trevor Wittman 11:33 I told Trevor yesterday, I think, you know, um, him hurting to my body was the reason, one of the h- main reasons I won. You know, when he, when he hit me, it... When I dropped, it wasn't the first time he hit me in the body. That was probably like the fourth or fifth one, and he had landed some really clean shots, and he could probably sense that I was in trouble and hurt, and I think that fact made him dump everything.

Joe Rogan 11:58 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 11:58 Because it was his last chance to take me out, and he almost did take me out. But when I went down, y- in hindsi- it's always easy to make these decisions in hindsight, but when I went down, you know, he would... He's, he's had way more, more submissions than he has knockouts. And so for him not to have that belief that he's gonna be able to go down there, especially with the Khabib fight, especially with the Charles Oliveira fight, especially with all the negativity around my grappling there, you know, I think he would've been foolish not to, 'cause I would've stood back up

Justin Gaethje 12:27 I would have stood back up and he would have charged forward, tried to finish me. I would have jumped on his legs. I would have pulled guard. He was going to end up on top of me no matter what. I wasn't going to sit there and trade with him again. Like I would have, you know, front rolled into, into grappling situations or whatever. I would have made him cover me. And, but I think me getting hit is what made him completely blow his, you know, Shane Carwin-esque, you know, blow his tank.

Trevor Wittman 12:52 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 12:52 And, you know, go for the win. And I think that was the choice he had to make because it was going to continue to get worse. I beat his ass in the first round. Like it might've been close on the scorecards. I absolutely took the first round, but the amount of damage that I inflicted in the first round set up the rest of the fight.

Trevor Wittman 13:09 I, I do think it was a mistake. And, and, and you're, you're saying, what you're saying is so correct. But what I'm saying is from a standpoint of him demanding it, he's going to finish you in the first two, understanding the damage that he was taking. He took big risks. He got in there. He kept his hands on your collarbones. He was landing really good shots. Yeah, the, the, the, the two body shots before that, that left hook to the liver, that, the sound it made was crazy. That last one was clean. It was precise and deep, but you could tell it was already there. But if he didn't put that pressure on his self, and this is what I mean by mistake, is like when you come out, you have to know that you're going five rounds. And he knew that he had to unleash everything right there. If, if he would have been smart in that scenario saying, "Hey, we got five rounds. Let me step back a little bit. Let me do some damage." But also he's like, "Hey, let me get you out of there quick. Justin, you know, can't grapple, can't do all these things," which a lot of people think, which Justin's a great grappler. And what was so smart about you is when you get tired, that's where the worst decisions happen, is that's one of my big things as coaching, is we get someone tired and then we make them make bad decisions and then the, then we capitalize on that, on those mistakes. Justin was able to stay so composed here with being speared to the body. And when you take a liver shot, it is way different than the headshot. A headshot's like taking a shot with your buddies at the bar. It's like, [laughs] "Hey, let's go." You know? But you take a body shot, you're dying. Like your liver shot, you feel like you're dying. And Justin, all the decisions he made on the ground, from the triangle, from the arm bar, from not being flat, so many good decisions were made in that scenario, and I do think it was a mistake. Obviously, there's so many different ways it could go, but those, those type of moments in fights are what make fights great, is overcoming obstacles. And he had set that up. He had said it. He's like, "Hey, I'm gonna overcome anything. I'm going out there to put the worst thing out there. Like what are you gonna do to me? I've already been knocked out the last second of a freaking huge fight by Max. Like you can't do nothing worse to me." And that mindset I think is, uh, you know, something to take away for all the fighters out there that

Trevor Wittman 15:11 always, I love how you say it, expect a war always. Some of the biggest, uh, mistakes that I've made with fighters that I had is allowing them to think that they're gonna go through this fight easy, and then that fight becomes super hard. You think it's gonna be a war, then you're like, "Hey, it wasn't as bad as I was expected." Even if it was a little bit of a war.

Justin Gaethje 15:27 You're not, you're not gonna help them in that moment.

Trevor Wittman 15:28 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 15:29 There's no pulling them out.

Trevor Wittman 15:30 That's fighting. Fighting, like fighting is, is mentality. I look at this like there's techniques out there and there's things like that. What makes this sport inspirational and makes someone want to go out there and beat cancer because they were inspired by a fighter, it's not the technical piece. It's getting back up, and it's okay to get knocked down. I love, I love watching people get knocked down because my favorite part is seeing how they get up, and that to me is why I love fighting, is how people get up.

Joe Rogan 15:56 Yeah, how they endure, and that was the big story of that second round, that you figured out a way to get through it, and the change in tempo in the third round was very obvious because the sprint that you have to make, like what Ilia did when he was trying to finish you, that, he, he used so much fucking energy. And the great Chael Sonnen once said that if you try to win by knockout and fail, you won't win by submission.

Justin Gaethje 16:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:20 And a lot of times that's the case because you know as good as anybody, if you fucking sprint it hard, you wail on the bag with fucking everything you got for two minutes, and then they go, "Time," one minute's not enough. It's not enough.

Justin Gaethje 16:35 No. Even in preparation-

Joe Rogan 16:37 Even two minutes. They even two is-

Trevor Wittman 16:38 Even two is, yeah

Justin Gaethje 16:38 ... you're a little tired after that good loop.

Trevor Wittman 16:40 That, that was crazy too.

Justin Gaethje 16:41 Even in preparation-

Trevor Wittman 16:41 That was crazy too. We'll talk about that

Justin Gaethje 16:42 ... preparation for these fights, like I'm doing 20, 30, 40 second sprints at most. I mean, that was, that was a two-minute sprint for him.

Trevor Wittman 16:52 Yes.

Joe Rogan 16:52 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 16:53 But full out.

Joe Rogan 16:54 Full out.

Justin Gaethje 16:54 And there's, and there's no-

Trevor Wittman 16:55 Full power. Everything full power. Every punch full power.

Justin Gaethje 16:58 You can't even train for that.

Joe Rogan 16:59 Can't. You gotta have spots.

Trevor Wittman 17:00 Right. And he didn't. He was just unloading. I mean, that's a young man with a tremendous amount of confidence because he's a two division world champion, and he thinks he's gonna go down as the greatest of all time. And hey, he might still.

Joe Rogan 17:12 He still could.

Trevor Wittman 17:13 He might still.

Joe Rogan 17:14 Depends on when it comes back. Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 17:14 What is he, 28?

Justin Gaethje 17:15 The odds-

Joe Rogan 17:16 29

Justin Gaethje 17:16 ... the odds are fucking great against that right now.

Trevor Wittman 17:19 Because of that loss?

Joe Rogan 17:20 I hope he does.

Justin Gaethje 17:21 It's, I hope he does too.

Trevor Wittman 17:22 I hope, I hope he does.

Justin Gaethje 17:23 I hope he does, and I know that he has the skill.

Trevor Wittman 17:24 Right. That's hard to overcome.

Justin Gaethje 17:25 I know that he has the skill to be a champion again. However, I, same thing with Tony Ferguson. I didn't break Tony Ferguson's confidence. I changed the perception of his opponents of him, and that is a huge factor when you go in there. Like who are you fighting? What do you fear? You know, before this, he was a guy that would, that you couldn't get through, that you couldn't push through, you couldn't survive with. And once I showed people that all you gotta do is get through that, then nobody's ever gonna go in there with thinking that he's unbeatable now.

Trevor Wittman 18:00 Right.

Justin Gaethje 18:00 You know? And that, that was his, that was his identity. And you know, that's gonna be such a tough task for him to fight people that aren't scared of him.

Joe Rogan 18:12 That's interesting. That's Mike Tyson in his prime. That's Anderson Silva in his prime, where y- the fight was lost before he even got in there.

Justin Gaethje 18:19 Ronda Rousey.

Joe Rogan 18:19 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 18:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:20 The fight was lost before he got, even got in there. Um, physically, uh, now I don't know what the truth is, but all these reports are that he has two fractured orbitals and, uh, a broken nose Um, th- just that alone, just the orbitals alone, like any time you've got eye injuries, like anything severe with your eyes, long-term consequences vary. Y- you know, we-

Justin Gaethje 18:43 Psychological.

Joe Rogan 18:44 Absolutely.

Trevor Wittman 18:45 And physical.

Justin Gaethje 18:45 Your body heals.

Joe Rogan 18:46 And physical.

Justin Gaethje 18:46 The body is resilient.

Trevor Wittman 18:48 It is.

Joe Rogan 18:48 Like, I'm telling you, I had a bro-

Justin Gaethje 18:49 Broken bones make stronger bones. Like, that is w- his, his, his, his orbital bones will be stronger.

Joe Rogan 18:55 It, it depends on where though-

Justin Gaethje 18:56 They will be calcified

Joe Rogan 18:56 ... Justin. The orbital bone, I had my orbital broken, and f- for six months I would do this and my tooth would move, and it's right where my sinus cavity is. You remember when you hit me with the spinning elbow?

Justin Gaethje 19:06 Your tooth would move?

Joe Rogan 19:07 Dude, I, I, I-

Justin Gaethje 19:07 When you push on your cheek?

Joe Rogan 19:08 Right here. Yeah, my tooth would move.

Justin Gaethje 19:10 Oh.

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Justin Gaethje 20:06 God.

Joe Rogan 20:06 I still feel the soft spot, but this is a very weak area where your sinus cavity is. That's a... And you, you broke both orbitals and the nose?

Justin Gaethje 20:13 Dude, you ever seen Merab?

Joe Rogan 20:13 Like, I do believe the body is resilient.

Justin Gaethje 20:15 You ever seen Merab's nose?

Joe Rogan 20:17 Like, yeah. Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 20:17 You ever seen the X-ray of Merab's nose?

Joe Rogan 20:19 Yeah, no. [laughs] Dude, did I send it to you, Kevin?

Trevor Wittman 20:21 It looks like a spine-

Justin Gaethje 20:22 Oh

Trevor Wittman 20:22 ... 'cause it's been broken.

Joe Rogan 20:23 Dude.

Trevor Wittman 20:24 He's got 33 vertebrae in his nose.

Justin Gaethje 20:25 No, actually, I mean, I've, I've had-

Trevor Wittman 20:26 It's literally fucking crazy

Justin Gaethje 20:28 ... I've, I've had three broken noses. I've had it fixed twice.

Joe Rogan 20:32 Yeah, I know you had it fixed.

Justin Gaethje 20:33 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:34 You know-

Justin Gaethje 20:34 Actually sucks

Joe Rogan 20:34 ... this is one.

Trevor Wittman 20:35 Orbital sucks.

Joe Rogan 20:35 There it is.

Trevor Wittman 20:36 Orbital, orbital sucks.

Joe Rogan 20:36 That's, that's Merab's nose.

Justin Gaethje 20:37 Holy my God.

Joe Rogan 20:39 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 20:39 Holy smokes.

Joe Rogan 20:39 Oh my God. I mean, that's-

Trevor Wittman 20:42 That, that looks like a long cocaine binge right there.

Justin Gaethje 20:44 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 20:44 Took out the whole fucking left side of his nose. Holy-

Joe Rogan 20:46 That looks like he got hit with a sledgehammer. I mean, that-

Trevor Wittman 20:49 It's crazy

Joe Rogan 20:49 ... that nose is crazy.

Trevor Wittman 20:51 That is crazy.

Joe Rogan 20:51 That is like... And to fix it, he's gonna have to have no contact for like a year.

Trevor Wittman 20:56 Yeah, that's hard.

Joe Rogan 20:56 And so he's not gonna fix it.

Trevor Wittman 20:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:58 He's just gonna deal. Look how t- turned it is. Like, that, the bone.

Justin Gaethje 21:02 I've had my eyes fixed and my nose fixed, and my nose was better for, for quality of life.

Joe Rogan 21:08 Oh, the nose is a big thing.

Justin Gaethje 21:08 Like, obviously being able to see was huge, but when your nose is broken, like, you have to understand, like, getting a haircut fucking sucks. You can't breathe through your nose so your mouth's open the whole time. You're constantly breathing in fucking hair. Like, there's, there's so much-

Trevor Wittman 21:22 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:22 Being at the dentist-

Justin Gaethje 21:23 Every time-

Joe Rogan 21:23 ... and they at you with the fucking thing-

Justin Gaethje 21:24 Every time you-

Joe Rogan 21:25 ... you're choking. [choking]

Justin Gaethje 21:25 Every time you eat food, like, you're, you just-

Trevor Wittman 21:28 That's funny

Justin Gaethje 21:28 ... there's something missing.

Joe Rogan 21:29 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 21:30 Uh, sleep. I wore a nose strip to bed for 10 years now. You know? Now I'm used to it.

Joe Rogan 21:34 Do you just have a scab, a permanent scab, 'cause it peeled that thing off all the time?

Justin Gaethje 21:37 Yeah, my nose is used to it now, but yeah, losing your nose-

Joe Rogan 21:40 When you got it fixed-

Justin Gaethje 21:41 ... is insane

Joe Rogan 21:42 ... uh, w- when you got it fixed, which fight was it? Before the Max fight?

Justin Gaethje 21:46 Yeah, right before the Max fight.

Joe Rogan 21:47 And then you could breathe out of it perfectly?

Justin Gaethje 21:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:50 Is it still good now?

Justin Gaethje 21:51 Yeah, he b- he broke it, but he didn't break, he didn't fuck with the cartilage. He broke, he actually fractured the bone up top-

Joe Rogan 21:57 Mm

Justin Gaethje 21:57 ... so I didn't have to get it fixed.

Joe Rogan 21:58 It's another factor that w- when we were talking about the fight, and, you know, people were talking about, um, this matchup with Ilia, I said, "You have to think about what he did to Fiziev." Fiziev is a super talented striker. And then you also have to think about the Max Holloway fight because he was pressing in the first round, but he got caught with a jump spinning back kick to the fucking face.

Justin Gaethje 22:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:20 And when that was, that's a, that's a game changer. And it, it happened at the end of the first round, and from that it changed the tone of the fight because it was just dead on. It was perfect.

Justin Gaethje 22:30 Yeah, and-

Joe Rogan 22:30 Couldn't have landed any better. And it-

Justin Gaethje 22:32 The truth of the matter is, is psychologically I was not, I was not there. I was not prepared mentally for the fight when I fought Max Holloway. It was such a different circumstance. It was, you know, a guy that wasn't in my weight class. It was a guy that I'd never thought about fighting. Um, it was for fun. And that whole, the whole experience was so different than any other fight I've ever had when it comes to, like, being mentally prepared for, for a fight.

Joe Rogan 22:59 What do you attribute that to? Like, what, was it-

Justin Gaethje 23:01 Myself, my, my-

Trevor Wittman 23:03 And us

Justin Gaethje 23:03 ... my-

Trevor Wittman 23:03 Like, we took, we took-

Justin Gaethje 23:04 Yeah, my coaches

Trevor Wittman 23:04 ... we told him to take the fight. He didn't want, he didn't wanna take the fight.

Justin Gaethje 23:07 My coaches-

Trevor Wittman 23:07 And then we told him that you're gonna keep the, the title contention fight, 'cause that's what they promised us. That's why he was very in- very-

Justin Gaethje 23:13 Well, every one of you guys, every one of you was like, "Oh, something was different." It was like, "Well, why didn't you guys fucking say something before the fight?"

Trevor Wittman 23:18 He, well, he told, you told me afterwards.

Justin Gaethje 23:19 You guys are telling me after the fight.

Trevor Wittman 23:20 Dude, you told me afterwards.

Justin Gaethje 23:20 Like, I knew something was different, but, like, I needed to know.

Trevor Wittman 23:23 He tells me afterwards.

Justin Gaethje 23:24 I needed you guys to tell me.

Trevor Wittman 23:25 He's like this, he's like, "I just didn't respect him." And I'm like, "How could you not respect Max?" And I didn't catch onto it, so it's like I'm always looking for flags and things like that. And 100%, I take 100% responsibility, 'cause that's how we learn. Everybody makes mistakes. I remember the Tony Ferguson fight, I didn't give any fucking water. You know? [laughs] Like, there's, like, things that we all learn from. But the thing, when he had told me that, I'm like, how did I not catch that, uh, from you? 'Cause he's like, "Dude," he, he was the smaller guy, just didn't... And, and I was like, dude, Max is, like, one of the guys that I look up to from the outside. Like, he is talented.

Justin Gaethje 23:55 I remember thinking-

Trevor Wittman 23:56 Like, super talented

Justin Gaethje 23:56 ... what, what am I looking for? Like, what am I afraid of? I kept trying to convince myself that I need to be, I need to find what I was to be worried about, and I couldn't find it.

Joe Rogan 24:07 So you always need that before a fight?

Justin Gaethje 24:09 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean-

Trevor Wittman 24:11 No matter who it is, you're fighting.

Joe Rogan 24:12 Right.

Trevor Wittman 24:12 You know?

Joe Rogan 24:13 Right.

Justin Gaethje 24:13 Yeah, and so, like, I was, I've never been as present and, like, um, I've never been able to retain a fight. And I, you know, before the knockout, I, I was there. Like, I was, I was in the, I was in the, in the arena. I saw the lights, I saw the people, I heard the people. Like, I've never been there in my life, and I think that it, I can attribute that to me not being scared, and so me not, you know, me not being in a real ... fight or flight

Joe Rogan 24:41 Real life or death situation.

Justin Gaethje 24:43 Yeah, yeah, situation.

Joe Rogan 24:43 So you weren't fully focused. You could actually hear the crowd.

Justin Gaethje 24:47 Yeah, I just-

Joe Rogan 24:47 You could actually-

Justin Gaethje 24:47 ... well, I could, and I could hear my thoughts. You know, I had thoughts. I never had thoughts in a fight because I'm so intuitive and reactionary, and that one was just so different. There was so much... And so sure, the kicks, the eye pokes. No, I think I was not... I couldn't have beat him that night with the mentality that I had.

Joe Rogan 25:06 Wow.

Justin Gaethje 25:06 And that was my last lesson to learn.

Joe Rogan 25:09 Hmm.

Justin Gaethje 25:09 I've, I had made... My less- you know, my lessons with, um, Oliveira was like, I wanted it so much. I wanted it so bad, and I wanted to perform, and I wanted to impress, uh, my fans. You know, Rose had a fight that night, and she fought like absolute garbage, and I, you know, and I told my coach, I was like, "Coach, don't worry. I, I won't, I won't do that to you."

Joe Rogan 25:30 He said that-

Justin Gaethje 25:31 Right before I-

Joe Rogan 25:31 ... right before we're about to walk

Justin Gaethje 25:32 ... right before we're about to walk, I was like, "Don't worry, coach-

Joe Rogan 25:33 'Cause he knew I was pissed

Justin Gaethje 25:34 ... I'll never let you down like that."

Joe Rogan 25:35 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 25:35 And Coach is pissed, and everyone's, you know, my... The locker room's all fucked up 'cause Pat's fucking weird. And-

Joe Rogan 25:40 Is that the Carlos Barosa fight? Was that the same night?

Trevor Wittman 25:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 25:43 Yeah, yeah. And, uh, I was at home, and so there was this... And that was, again, that was my fault. I allowed those things to affect me.

Joe Rogan 25:49 Right.

Justin Gaethje 25:49 And to, you know, um, affect my fighting decisions rather than just being myself. Um, and so that was a huge mistake. Um, another mistake was, uh, you know, winning two or three times in a row and just kind of becoming complacent with how serious what we do is, and how dangerous this game is, and how much luck and chance are a factor every single night. And so, you know, I wasn't doing the extra credit. I wasn't sitting in the sauna at home, you know, and I don't know. I don't know why. It's just... And then I made that mistake, um, probably into the Eddie Alvarez/Dustin Poirier fights, lost, and then I won three or four in a row, and then I completely went back to the same mindset of, "I'm the best in the world. Nobody can beat me," and I paid for it. And those two mistakes were huge. Very, very big learning lessons. And then the, uh, the Charles Oliveira fight, you know, it was like, I wanted it so bad, and then I made the moment so much bigger than it actually was because it's just t- 25 minutes in time, and I... All I can control is being perfect, my preparation for it, but then ultimately being there for 25 minutes and being perfect. And yeah, those are the mistakes that I made. I had to learn. I had to make those mistakes. Uh, I would not change anything about my career. I think the farther back into my career you go, the more special this moment is. And, you know, I think, um, in time, again, I, I... This is gonna age like... My, my career is something special. The way that I did it, the way that I, that I lost, the way that I stayed on track, the way that I, you know, threatened retirement if I wasn't gonna get a title cham- a title shot, um, the way I called my shots along the way, and, um, the discipline I had, I mean, it is second to none. I've watched this sport my whole life. Since 1992, my dad showed me. I remember as a four-year-old seeing it. I don't have a lot of, you know, great memories. I, I remember my childhood, but it's not like you have specifics, but I remember seeing it for my first time in my dad's bedroom. We were sitting there watching it together, and I was, and I was enthralled. I was like, "This is, this is amazing. I love this shit."

Joe Rogan 28:03 Can you picture that? Him with, like, a baby bottle just squeezing it. Aah.

Justin Gaethje 28:08 Yeah, and I was like, "I fucking love this."

Joe Rogan 28:09 Dude, I just picture, like, I'm official. I'm like, "All right, dude."

Justin Gaethje 28:10 "I love it." And then I watched it, and I was a diehard fan. I've been a diehard fan ever since then. And especially in 2001 when it came along, I was, you know, probably in seventh or eighth grade, sixth or seventh grade, and just fell in love with it. And then, you know, me and Carl going into college, we'd go and sit at Buffalo Wild Wings for six, seven, eight hours, spend $5. Those poor service people. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 28:31 It's just, uh, amazing that you've been able to keep this ferocious mentality for so long.

Justin Gaethje 28:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:37 Because I remember when you first entered into the UFC, the, the Michael Johnson fight, I was so pumped for it 'cause I was like, "Get ready, 'cause this is gonna be fucking wild," 'cause I had been a fan of yours when you were fighting in, what was it?

Justin Gaethje 28:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:47 World Series of Fighting.

Trevor Wittman 28:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:48 And then, uh, that Michael Johnson fight was everything that I thought it would be. Fucking crazy.

Justin Gaethje 28:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:52 Just a wild-ass fight.

Justin Gaethje 28:54 Crazy coming out party.

Trevor Wittman 28:55 Dude, I giggled so many times in that fight.

Joe Rogan 28:57 Oh my God.

Trevor Wittman 28:58 Dude, when you went against the cage, and you were like this, and you, like, looked back, and you were like, "Oh, I'm looking for the shot," and you're, like, blocking off the thing. And then you come back with the right hook, and then you let him back in again, then you hit him with the right hook again off the cage. Dude, there were so many giggle sessions in there. Uh, I wasn't nervous 'cause just, again, that's the way he fights, and I'm like, "He's... No one's gonna forget this fight."

Joe Rogan 29:15 Michael Johnson was swinging, too.

Trevor Wittman 29:17 Swinging.

Joe Rogan 29:18 I mean-

Trevor Wittman 29:18 And caught him with that left hand-

Joe Rogan 29:20 Caught him hard

Trevor Wittman 29:20 ... a few times.

Joe Rogan 29:20 Well, that's the same left hand he knocked out Dustin with.

Trevor Wittman 29:22 Yeah, his left hand is so fast.

Joe Rogan 29:23 He's fast.

Trevor Wittman 29:24 It is so fast.

Justin Gaethje 29:25 That shit is fast.

Joe Rogan 29:25 And Michael has power.

Trevor Wittman 29:27 Yeah, he does.

Justin Gaethje 29:27 He is fast.

Joe Rogan 29:28 Yeah, dude, and, and he was trying to win. I mean, he was going all out, that you guys just emptied out in that fight. It was fantastic, and I was like, "There it is."

Trevor Wittman 29:37 Dude, the, the three-rounder to get off the, the back flip took three rounds.

Joe Rogan 29:41 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 29:42 He got up there and fell down, got up there and fell down. I was like, "You can do it."

Joe Rogan 29:45 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 29:45 You know, I'm out there motivating him. I'm like-

Joe Rogan 29:47 I always get so scared for your knees when you do that.

Trevor Wittman 29:49 Dude, oh my God, dude.

Joe Rogan 29:49 I'm like, "Please don't hurt your knees" after you won the title.

Justin Gaethje 29:51 I'm 100%, baby.

Joe Rogan 29:53 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 29:53 I ain't missed yet.

Trevor Wittman 29:54 We're, we're training for Khabib, and, and we're over at, at high altitude. He's doing back flips off the, off the-

Justin Gaethje 29:59 Cage

Trevor Wittman 30:00 ... the cage. And I was like, "Stop."

Joe Rogan 30:02 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 30:02 "Do this after the fight."

Justin Gaethje 30:03 Yeah, he's like, "Hey, hey, no more back flips."

Trevor Wittman 30:05 And he's like-

Justin Gaethje 30:05 I was like, "Today? Today's the day?"

Trevor Wittman 30:07 Dude.

Justin Gaethje 30:07 "Today's the day I become a bitch?"

Trevor Wittman 30:09 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 30:10 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 30:10 Like, "Today's the day, huh?"

Trevor Wittman 30:11 I'll never forget that moment. I was like-

Justin Gaethje 30:12 He's like, "You know what? Fuck it"

Trevor Wittman 30:12 ... I turned my head, I was like, "Stop." Uh, go, go ahead. No, it's good.

Joe Rogan 30:15 That is kinda true, right?

Trevor Wittman 30:17 Dude, it's mentality.

Joe Rogan 30:17 When, when you get something, and all of a sudden you're special, then you start protecting it, and then you won't be special anymore.

Justin Gaethje 30:23 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 30:24 Dude, this is what makes him who he is.

Justin Gaethje 30:24 That's what I told him. I was like, "So today, today's the day, huh?"

Trevor Wittman 30:27 Yeah. He's fucking crazy.

Joe Rogan 30:28 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 30:28 Like, I never want him to stop being fucking crazy. Like, everything about him, in life, when you play golf with him, he's the highlight. He does shit that, like, you'll never fucking see. Like, it's like everything you do is the highlight. Like, y- his life is like his fighting. He's fucking wild.

Joe Rogan 30:42 So your mentality, you've never had to work on... I mean, obviously you've learned lessons along the way, but you've never had to, like, sit down and work on this mindset. It's always been something you inherently possessed?

Justin Gaethje 30:54 Yeah. Yeah, I think, um-

Trevor Wittman 30:56 It's crazy

Justin Gaethje 30:57 ... I think people-

Trevor Wittman 30:57 Crazy thing happens

Justin Gaethje 30:58 ... I think people just complicate things so much. Like, when you can truly understand that there's n- there's, there is things you can't control, but it's not everything. You can only control what's inside of you. You know, you can only control how you perceive things, how you react to things, and you-

Trevor Wittman 31:14 The work you put in

Justin Gaethje 31:15 ... the, the wor- obviously the preparation.

Trevor Wittman 31:16 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 31:17 ... but it's, um, I mean, there's so much, you know. And I, I guess I always knew that something was coming because no matter how far off the, the road, you know, like I've made mistakes. You know, I've done... I was never an al- thank God I was never an alcoholic and never that, but I was, I could say I was, I was probably a drug addict at s- you know, one time in my life. And-

Trevor Wittman 31:45 What drugs?

Justin Gaethje 31:47 [sighs] I don't know. I have never told my parents about this, so I don't know.

Trevor Wittman 31:51 You don't have to.

Justin Gaethje 31:51 All of them. All of them. I want, so, but it's, you know, it can, and, and I know this is gonna sound stupid, but so I went to school for human services. I wanted to help people. A big part of that is helping people come off drugs, and I lost m- many, over a handful of friends, really close friends from drugs. Where I come from, we're not far from Mexico, and we had the best, we had the best shit coming right across the border before it ever got cut up, and it was, um, it was, my li- you know, where I'm from is very boring, and so, like, you chase... Again, you know, we have it so good in this country. We're always trying to create chaos in order to feel something, and I guess that's what I was probably doing. And in college is when I really, you know, I was like I, if I'm going to help people come off of drugs, then how can I ever even try to understand if I don't know what they're chasing? And so that was a part of it. It also a part was it felt good, you know? And so, you know, once I did, uh, certain things, I knew what people were chasing, but then I always knew that something was bigger for me and better for me, and I had something to do. And so that was always, it was never a c- a crutch for me. I was always like, "That was awesome." You know, "I'm not doing it again."

Trevor Wittman 33:13 What is it in your head that, where you always knew that you had something bigger?

Justin Gaethje 33:18 Uh, well, probably my faith. I mean, I, I've, I've been t- my, my parents, the best thing they ever did for me was make me go to church every single Sunday and create a relationship with, with God through the word of Jesus Christ and just trying to live up to those expectations. Um, I knew, not that I was gonna be a champion or anything. I just knew that I couldn't take the easy way out. You know, um, when you're on drugs or when you're, when you're living a lifestyle like that, then nobody expects anything from you. Nobody wants anything from you, and that's the easy way to live. You know, those, uh-

Trevor Wittman 34:00 Right

Justin Gaethje 34:00 ... there's no pressure.

Trevor Wittman 34:01 No expectations.

Justin Gaethje 34:02 No expectations, no pressure. And I mean, it really is, I can understand how you can let that overcome the, the passion to live, you know. And, um, I don't know. I just think the passion to live because of my faith has never outweighed my desire to feel good.

Trevor Wittman 34:26 I wanna talk about the shift that you made in your career from being the most exciting guy in the world, wanting to be the most exciting guy in the world, being happy with performing to the best of your ability, whether you win or lose, to wanting to get the belt. What, what was... What, what started that decision?

Justin Gaethje 34:44 [sighs] It's weird 'cause I don't remember a time or a day where I made a change other than I'm not gonna get hit. You know, in the Dustin Poirier fight and the Eddie Alvarez fight, I, I absolutely almost broke them, and it was no different than any of my other fights. Nobody had just ever... Same with Ilia, you know. Like, nobody had ever got past it. Nobody had ever been able to withstand the ferocity of my actions for two or three rounds, and then those guys did, and I was like, "What happened?" You know? And ultimately I put myself in a position, and I got hit with a shot that, um, took me out of the fight. And so after those fights, I was like, "I have to not take these shots." And that was ultimately all I can say that I, that I changed mentally, is I'm gonna, I don't wanna get hit. I used to never care about getting hit 'cause it's like, doesn't hurt. Nothing hurts in there. You don't feel nothing. It, it's never hurt. And so that was really just the mindset. I just need to not let them get me in a predicament where I'm not able to, where they have to stop the fight.

Trevor Wittman 36:02 So the shift, uh-

Justin Gaethje 36:03 But he, he probably-

Trevor Wittman 36:04 Yes, so

Justin Gaethje 36:05 ... from a outside know- outside source perspective-

Trevor Wittman 36:06 Yeah, it's, it's definitely there, there was a shift, and it wasn't just, like, an instant shift. It was the two losses in a row with Eddie and Poirier, uh, where he's like, "I'm winning these fights, and I need to be able to get to the distance." And I was like, "All right. We gotta become a spot fighter 'cause you just drown people, and you're, you, what's happening is you're making mistakes." We threw a low kick against Poirier, and he got caught 'cause he faced back lazy with his shoulders above his, his hips. So I was like, "All right. Let's be sharp. Let's fight in spots." Then he goes on a three-fight win streak where he's finding the right spots and putting people out from, from Vick to, uh, uh, Barboza into Cowboy Cerrone, and that's where he's like... And then I, I sat down with him, and I was like, "Do you wanna be a champion?" And I was like, "This is how you have to fight."

36:50 To be a champion is be smart. And he never said he, he never said he didn't wanna be the most exciting fighter to watch. He would tell me after fights, he's like, "I'm not even trying to fight excited, but look at me."

Joe Rogan 37:00 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 37:00 And it's like fucking, like it's so basic. Like it's in him. It's just how do we, how do we get you to sprint 50 yards, pull back for 100 yards and jog, and then sprint for 50 yards and like be able to know your, your, your, your red line. Don't, don't cross over that red line. Don't hold red line.

Joe Rogan 37:15 Well, that, that is again the experience that you found in war.

Trevor Wittman 37:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:18 So it's such... It was so critical in how you fight.

Trevor Wittman 37:20 Yeah. He could do it, but-

Joe Rogan 37:21 Yeah

Trevor Wittman 37:21 ... you don't wanna make mistakes.

Justin Gaethje 37:22 I do think, and it is, I think it's crazy. I think, um, again, the fact that they said that he had outstruck me in the first round 39 to 32 or something. He-

Joe Rogan 37:29 You landed some hard jabs in that first round.

Justin Gaethje 37:31 Yeah, but-

Trevor Wittman 37:32 Yeah, there's... Yours were devastating.

Joe Rogan 37:34 They were hard.

Trevor Wittman 37:34 He might have touched and stunned.

Joe Rogan 37:35 They were thunderous jabs.

Justin Gaethje 37:35 But I'm talking about the perception.

Trevor Wittman 37:38 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 37:39 It looks like I'm getting hit. It looks like it... But I mean, my... I don't have special skin. I am able to see punches and-

Trevor Wittman 37:49 And roll with them and yeah

Justin Gaethje 37:49 ... and roll with punches. If you watch my f- f- you know, fights frame by frame, I'm not getting hit for the most part.

Joe Rogan 37:55 You're moving with the punches.

Justin Gaethje 37:57 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Wittman 37:57 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 37:57 I'm... It's be like water. Like I'm-

Trevor Wittman 37:59 Right

Justin Gaethje 37:59 ... I'm constantly, you know, and, and intuitively making these-

Trevor Wittman 38:04 But that-

Justin Gaethje 38:05 ... calculations

Trevor Wittman 38:05 ... that's the scoring that when you see that, and I don't know who's counting that, but that's like amateur boxing. Amateur boxing, if the white glove touches you in the face, even if it's not a clean blow, that's considered a, a... That's how you judge.

Joe Rogan 38:17 Yes.

Trevor Wittman 38:17 And that, that's where Justin, I think, where you look at it from a point system, you can't just look at the, the screen. And that's why, uh, you know, judges can't look at a screen and go, "Oh, this guy landed more. This is who won."

Joe Rogan 38:29 Right.

Trevor Wittman 38:29 You had the damaging blows. I think everybody knows that. Like, and I get it. Like, I see the way you roll a shot. I see the way that you fade off-

Joe Rogan 38:35 Yeah

Trevor Wittman 38:35 ... and allow the shot not to go through your skull, and deflect it. Your... It still gets touched to you, so it's considered that they landed that shot. But the damage is like what you do to people by the way that you hit through, that you drive through people, is so different. Like, like Justin hits unlike any... He, he still... I still think to this day, we gotta ask, ask the UFC, but they did a test on him to see who has the hardest bones in the UFC. He, he had the hardest bones. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 38:58 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 38:59 Dude, he kicks me and I'm just like, "Dude, I, I'm so glad." I feel so bad

Trevor Wittman 39:02 for Luke Rockhold.

Justin Gaethje 39:02 He didn't let... He don't let me kick him no more.

Trevor Wittman 39:04 Luke Rockhold. God, dude, Luke Rockhold would just take kicks.

Joe Rogan 39:06 Bro, let me tell you something about Luke.

Justin Gaethje 39:06 I kick him. He has his pad on, he has his pad on. I kick him and his, his nuts swell up.

Trevor Wittman 39:10 Dude, I get blue balls, bro.

Justin Gaethje 39:11 And so I can't kick him no more.

Trevor Wittman 39:12 Dude, there's a nerve on the inside of your leg.

Joe Rogan 39:14 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 39:14 I talked to a doctor about it, 'cause I'm like, "Bro, like he kicks people and they bruise on the inside of their leg." And it's 'cause the shock through, but there's a nerve on the inside of the leg. I'd go home and I'd tell my wife, I'm like, "Babe, I got fucking blue balls." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:24 That's hilarious.

Trevor Wittman 39:24 And she's like, "From who?" And I'm like, "Justin." She looks at me like... [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:27 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 39:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:27 The fuck you got blue balls from Justin for? One of the things you were doing early in your career that I always thought was so wild was you were leg kicking people from a collar tie.

Justin Gaethje 39:36 Yep.

Trevor Wittman 39:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:36 Like you were leg kick.

Trevor Wittman 39:37 Base them down.

Joe Rogan 39:37 And I was like, oh my goodness.

Trevor Wittman 39:38 Make them put weight on it.

Joe Rogan 39:39 I'm like, how come no one's doing that? Like you were one of the only guys that I saw that was doing that, that was from the clench, was leg kicking. You've got some fucking flexible hips, man.

Trevor Wittman 39:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:49 Because the way you were able to do that from like right in tight like this, and then, and not just-

Justin Gaethje 39:54 You pull them to it

Joe Rogan 39:54 ... throw the leg out.

Justin Gaethje 39:55 You pull.

Joe Rogan 39:55 You're whipping into it.

Trevor Wittman 39:56 Yeah. He, he pulls them to their lead leg.

Joe Rogan 39:58 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Wittman 39:58 So he's making a base on that knee.

Joe Rogan 39:59 Boom.

Trevor Wittman 39:59 And then it's just like you got a stump in the ground and you're just trying to bend that tree.

Joe Rogan 40:03 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 40:03 You know? And man, he's very good at that.

Joe Rogan 40:05 Let me tell you something about Luke, 'cause I got into the octagon at right after you won, and Luke and, you know-

Trevor Wittman 40:10 Dude

Joe Rogan 40:10 ... I looked at each other. He was like, "Ah!" [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 40:12 Dude.

Justin Gaethje 40:12 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 40:12 The bastard.

Trevor Wittman 40:13 He's like, dude.

Joe Rogan 40:14 He was so happy.

Trevor Wittman 40:14 He's like-

Joe Rogan 40:15 He was-

Trevor Wittman 40:15 ... "Joe is so..." He's like, "Joe is so pumped."

Joe Rogan 40:17 So happy. Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 40:17 He hugged me so hard.

Joe Rogan 40:18 He was so happy.

Trevor Wittman 40:19 Dude, he's the best.

Joe Rogan 40:20 He was... It was amazing.

Trevor Wittman 40:22 You know, he pukes.

Joe Rogan 40:22 'Cause n- seeing all those videos and knowing he's in camp with you all the time, and knowing how much he loves you.

Trevor Wittman 40:26 He's the best. I freaking love him.

Joe Rogan 40:26 Watching the happiness that he had-

Trevor Wittman 40:28 Dude

Justin Gaethje 40:28 Yeah

Joe Rogan 40:28 ... when you won was fucking incredible.

Justin Gaethje 40:30 No, Luke is one of my really, really good friends. He-

Trevor Wittman 40:32 Pukes every time before a fight.

Justin Gaethje 40:34 Even-

Trevor Wittman 40:34 Every time. Dude-

Justin Gaethje 40:34 Before Trevor was in my corner, Luke cornered me. He used to go, uh, to Arizona with me. I had no coaches. I would just do it in between, you know, in between wrestling seasons. And yeah, he would go down there with me and just grab my hands and he would just be there.

Joe Rogan 40:47 Wow.

Trevor Wittman 40:47 He's amazing.

Joe Rogan 40:48 What a brother.

Trevor Wittman 40:48 One of the best human beings on earth, dude.

Joe Rogan 40:49 What a guy.

Justin Gaethje 40:49 Yeah, I love that man.

Joe Rogan 40:50 What a guy.

Trevor Wittman 40:50 Hey, did you tell them about the, the, the Sunday? So the Sunday before the fight.

Justin Gaethje 40:55 Oh, fuck.

Trevor Wittman 40:55 So, so there was one time, I think it was in the-

Justin Gaethje 40:57 Oh, shit. It was-

Trevor Wittman 40:57 ... the cowboy fight where you were, you were pummeling with Ben, and he, he'd finish with a low kick on Ben every time. And I'm like, "Stop kicking your coach." And he looks at me, he's like, he's like, "Trevor," he used to drag me back on the mats. He's like, "I'm gonna kick..."

Justin Gaethje 41:09 He used to fuck me up.

Trevor Wittman 41:10 I was like, "All right, cool."

Justin Gaethje 41:10 I was like-

Trevor Wittman 41:10 You guys got that?

Justin Gaethje 41:10 ... just give me this fucking-

Trevor Wittman 41:12 So-

Justin Gaethje 41:12 Give me this opportunity to beat his ass. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 41:13 So we go golfing, Joe and I.

Justin Gaethje 41:15 Sunday we go golfing, the Sunday before the fight. We get there Saturday. We go golfing Sunday. And it, you know, it's a Sunday, we never work out on Sundays, and Trevor, not Trevor, Luke and Ben got fucking pickled. Um-

Joe Rogan 41:28 On the golf course

Justin Gaethje 41:28 ... they, they each had like three very, very, very stiff mar... um, uh-

Joe Rogan 41:33 Uh, bloody Marys

Justin Gaethje 41:34 ... bloody Marys. Luke bought like 12 beers. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 41:36 Dude, it was the best.

Justin Gaethje 41:36 'Cause we got there and they're like, "Hey, everything's on the president." And he's like, "Fuck yeah, I've never heard that before, everything's on the president. I'm gonna drink." Until like hole 10 or 11, Trevor's like, "Let's fuck with them. Let's tell them that we're gonna work out later." So-

Trevor Wittman 41:48 Well, we were gonna work out, but I'm telling him-

Justin Gaethje 41:50 I didn't-

Trevor Wittman 41:50 ... they're, they're gonna be the workout.

Justin Gaethje 41:51 I didn't know we were working out. Put it to... I had no fucking... I thought he was-

Trevor Wittman 41:54 Dude, we're fighting on Sunday. We're definitely working out

Justin Gaethje 41:55 ... I thought he was fucking with me. We're out there golfing, it's hot as shit, I'm sweating my ass off. I had no idea we were working out that day. And he's like, "Let's fuck with them. Let's tell them that we're gonna work out." I was like, "All right, cool."

Trevor Wittman 42:04 So I told him I w- I was gonna text him and give the workout 'cause I'll get, I'll lay out the workout for everybody. And, uh, I told Luke he was gonna go three rounds of sparring, uh, uh, full on sparring. And then Ben's gotta go f- uh, 40 minutes straight, no breaks, just grappling.

Justin Gaethje 42:17 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 42:17 Not wrestling, just grappling.

Justin Gaethje 42:18 And they're fucked up.

Trevor Wittman 42:18 And dude, and I told Justin, and I was like, "All right, let's fuck with them, see how he is." And dude, instantly, before... I didn't text him. We just started talking about it. So we're on the way home, driving home, and dude, Ben is like, dude, he's like, he's like, uh, "I'll to- I'll just take you down." And, and, and he's like... I, I asked him, "How many times are you gonna take him down?"

Joe Rogan 42:33 As many as I want.

Justin Gaethje 42:34 Many times as I want.

Trevor Wittman 42:35 Dude, it, it, it-

Justin Gaethje 42:35 He's like, "40 minutes. Let's go 60 minutes."

Trevor Wittman 42:37 He goes 60.

Justin Gaethje 42:37 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 42:38 So they went 20. Dude, you got what? Seven submissions on your coach. He drug him back on the mats. It was so funny-

Justin Gaethje 42:42 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 42:42 ... 'cause I was like, "Dude, you gotta drag him back on the mats 'cause I gotta witness this." [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 42:45 It's funny 'cause I got a video, uh-

Trevor Wittman 42:47 Dude, it was the funniest shit ever

Justin Gaethje 42:47 ... I went, I went... So we get home. I go home, I go down, take a nap for like two hours, and they just stay drinking up-

Trevor Wittman 42:53 Oh, boy

Justin Gaethje 42:53 ... upstairs.

Joe Rogan 42:53 Talking shit.

Justin Gaethje 42:54 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 42:54 Lots of drinking, dude

Justin Gaethje 42:55 ... my YouTube guy filmed everything, and they're just talking so much shit-

Trevor Wittman 42:58 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 42:58 ... how they're gonna fuck me up.

Joe Rogan 42:59 Lu- Luke was good, though. Luke was like, he was trying to fan the-

Justin Gaethje 43:01 Yeah, Luke, Luke's been through it, man. Luke knows.

Joe Rogan 43:02 Luke's like, "You're really gonna say that?" Like Luke's like-

Justin Gaethje 43:04 Yeah. Luke's like, "Hey, I ain't saying any of this."

Joe Rogan 43:06 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 43:06 "Not me. It's him." But they're making a plan how they're gonna team up on me. And so you, it's funny, then, then you got that video there and I'm beating Ben's ass. Oh, no, actually I went with Luke first-

Trevor Wittman 43:16 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 43:16 ... and I was fucking him up.

Trevor Wittman 43:18 And Luke's punching Ben because Ben won't jump in.

Justin Gaethje 43:20 And yeah, so Ben's-

Trevor Wittman 43:20 'Cause Ben thinks he's the one-

Justin Gaethje 43:21 Ben's like, he's like, "What the fuck, Ben? What the fuck, Ben? Now's the time."

Trevor Wittman 43:25 Oh, serious onslaught.

Justin Gaethje 43:25 And he's asking for help, asking for help. I beat his ass, and then I did it to Ben too.

Trevor Wittman 43:29 We have fun, for sure.

Joe Rogan 43:30 It, it looks fun.

Trevor Wittman 43:31 It, it was great. Great coaches. And our whole team is just, everybody's so dialed in.

Justin Gaethje 43:34 Yeah, that whole week is one of my f- every time we go, that whole week is one of my-

Trevor Wittman 43:37 It's awesome

Justin Gaethje 43:37 ... favorite experiences.

Joe Rogan 43:38 You were using the sauna in between workouts as well.

Trevor Wittman 43:41 Yep. And before.

Joe Rogan 43:41 And-

Trevor Wittman 43:41 And so we were-

Justin Gaethje 43:42 Nothing... That shit sucked. I say it was perfect, you say it was perfect. It was not.

Trevor Wittman 43:47 It was hard.

Justin Gaethje 43:47 It was detrimental to our performances.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Outside.

Justin Gaethje 43:49 Yes.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 43:49 The humidity was there. I didn't realize it, because obviously it's not, you know, it's not something I can worry about right now, but after round one I just remember thinking, "Oh, fuck. I am so tired right now. How, how is this possible?" And the amount of, the amount of fluid I lost was-

Joe Rogan 44:05 Thank God it wasn't hot

Justin Gaethje 44:05 ... I probably lost like 15 pound.

Joe Rogan 44:06 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 44:06 'Cause it was in the 70s.

Joe Rogan 44:08 Dude.

Justin Gaethje 44:08 Yeah, 70s with the cool breeze. You know, when you go out there-

Joe Rogan 44:10 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 44:10 ... what you feel is the, the cool breeze, but-

Joe Rogan 44:12 Just heavy air though

Justin Gaethje 44:13 ... in the, in the fight, man-

Joe Rogan 44:14 Heavy air

Justin Gaethje 44:14 ... it was, it was different.

Joe Rogan 44:15 Yeah. I hated the fact that it was gonna happen, but I'm glad it did.

Trevor Wittman 44:18 Yeah, me too.

Justin Gaethje 44:19 I'm g- again, I, I would not ch- again, I think-

Joe Rogan 44:21 How could you change it?

Justin Gaethje 44:22 It affects me, it affects him, you know.

Joe Rogan 44:24 I know.

Justin Gaethje 44:24 Again, I grew up in the country. He's, he's a city boy. There's no way he's not a city boy. I don't know him personally, but there's no way he's not a city boy, you know. And so as a country, country boy from the desert in Arizona, like, I was hoping that it would be-

Joe Rogan 44:38 Hot as fuck

Justin Gaethje 44:39 ... hot as [laughs] fuck. Yeah. Like, fucking-

Joe Rogan 44:41 When he sat down in the stool I was like, "Oh, God. These outside fights kill me."

Trevor Wittman 44:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:45 You know, he was dude, he was, he was done so bad. It was like-

Justin Gaethje 44:46 After round one, like, dude, he was shaking.

Joe Rogan 44:48 Dude, he was, like, trembling. I was like, "Holy shit." Well, it is crazy to ask people to defend a world title in a completely alien environment that you never have fights in. We've had h- how many fights outside? We've had the Abu Dhabi fight in like, what was that, 2000 and-

Trevor Wittman 45:03 Yeah

Joe Rogan 45:03 ... fucking nine or something like that?

Trevor Wittman 45:05 Yeah. Poirier fight, yeah.

Justin Gaethje 45:05 No, they did, didn't, uh... What was the setting? I wasn't there.

Trevor Wittman 45:10 It was, it was-

Justin Gaethje 45:10 When Adesanya did his famous walkout in, like, a... It was covered, but it was-

Trevor Wittman 45:15 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 45:15 ... it seemed like the environment was outside.

Trevor Wittman 45:18 Poirier get, against, uh, Khabib.

Justin Gaethje 45:20 In Abu Dhabi. No, it was in Abu Dhabi.

Joe Rogan 45:22 So Khabib's Abu Dhabis were the outside?

Trevor Wittman 45:23 Not Dhabi.

Joe Rogan 45:23 Well, we did one in Abu Dhabi when BJ-

Justin Gaethje 45:25 The big arena

Joe Rogan 45:27 ... lost to Frankie Edgar. That was outside in Abu Dhabi. Um, and that was when Anderson Silva fought Damian Maya. That was outside.

Trevor Wittman 45:34 Is that the one with the Ferrari building?

Joe Rogan 45:37 The Ferrari building was there, but it, I don't know if it was in the same place.

Trevor Wittman 45:41 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 45:41 They had a, did they have a fight in the Ferrari building?

Joe Rogan 45:43 I think they did.

Trevor Wittman 45:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:44 But I wasn't there for that one.

Justin Gaethje 45:45 But-

Joe Rogan 45:45 I only went to one of the Abu Dhabi fights.

Justin Gaethje 45:47 Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't that long ago.

Trevor Wittman 45:49 Remember we were talking to the dude in Morocco?

Justin Gaethje 45:50 Like, I would say within the last seven years.

Trevor Wittman 45:52 Mm.

Joe Rogan 45:52 Okay.

Trevor Wittman 45:52 Remember the dude in Morocco said after the first round he was done, he was just trying to survive? He said it was so hot, remember?

Justin Gaethje 45:57 Yeah, no, I mean, that's what, I remember it-

Trevor Wittman 46:00 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 46:00 ... it being over there-

Trevor Wittman 46:01 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 46:01 ... and then, you know, once you realize the climate over there and the humidity, it's like-

Trevor Wittman 46:04 Do you remember-

Justin Gaethje 46:05 ... dude doesn't have a fucking clue

Trevor Wittman 46:05 ... Bodog?

Justin Gaethje 46:06 Mm.

Trevor Wittman 46:06 Remember Bodog fights?

Joe Rogan 46:07 Bodog fights, yep.

Justin Gaethje 46:08 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Wittman 46:08 They had a, they had a fight outside in the sun-

Joe Rogan 46:11 Yep

Trevor Wittman 46:12 ... on the beach.

Justin Gaethje 46:13 That's crazy.

Trevor Wittman 46:13 Caesar Palace in Vegas. Remember Caesar's Palace? They had a boxing... I, we got to fight there. Vernon Phillips against, uh, Kausi Muma outside.

Justin Gaethje 46:20 When they fought for World Series outside.

Joe Rogan 46:20 Yeah, that's right. They used to always do it outside.

Trevor Wittman 46:22 Caesar Palace.

Justin Gaethje 46:22 World Series of Fighting. Around that NASCAR event.

Trevor Wittman 46:25 Yeah. That's, that was crazy.

Justin Gaethje 46:27 That was an outside fight.

Joe Rogan 46:27 Duran versus Hearns.

Trevor Wittman 46:28 That was an outside, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:28 Duran versus Hearns was outside.

Trevor Wittman 46:29 Yeah, they, they were, they were great, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:31 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 46:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:32 That's true. That's right.

Trevor Wittman 46:33 Uh, at least Vegas is dry.

Joe Rogan 46:36 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 46:36 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Wittman 46:37 Totally.

Justin Gaethje 46:37 Arizona, Vegas, Colorado.

Trevor Wittman 46:39 Yeah. Yeah, humidity was what I was training for with him, was heatstroke. Like, dealing with the, where you can't breathe, it's heavy air. Like, like-

Joe Rogan 46:45 So were you putting water on the rocks in the sauna as well?

Trevor Wittman 46:47 Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:48 And, and so w- what was the-

Trevor Wittman 46:49 And we trained in a hotter gym. I'd, I'd turn the temperature up in the gyms just so he's getting used to dealing with a little bit more heatstroke.

Justin Gaethje 46:54 We would spike my heart rate, and then I would go in the sauna 15 minutes, and then I would come out and do eight-

Trevor Wittman 46:58 And then return

Justin Gaethje 46:59 ... eight to 10 rounds.

Trevor Wittman 47:00 Yep.

Joe Rogan 47:00 Mm.

Trevor Wittman 47:01 It was great.

Joe Rogan 47:01 Smart.

Trevor Wittman 47:02 I'm so glad we did it.

Joe Rogan 47:03 Very smart. Very smart. 'Cause that environment is, I mean, it's so completely different. I, I just... Ultimately, I think the best way to fight is obviously the way you usually fight.

Trevor Wittman 47:13 Yeah, controlled.

Joe Rogan 47:14 Controlled environment.

Justin Gaethje 47:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:15 That's how it should be.

Trevor Wittman 47:15 It was cool though, Joe. You know why?

Joe Rogan 47:17 It was so cool. [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 47:18 So we, we went and did, we went and did a rehearsal, okay? And I'm like, "Why are we rehearsing a walkthrough? Like, it's, this ain't a freaking wedding. Like, just tell us where to go."

Joe Rogan 47:25 Yes.

Trevor Wittman 47:25 The camera guys are always like, "All right, your mark here is five, four, three..."

Justin Gaethje 47:27 Yeah, I'm just following the camera.

Trevor Wittman 47:28 So why are we doing this? And then we go there, and we get stuck in this locker room for two hours.

Justin Gaethje 47:33 Hour, hour and a half.

Trevor Wittman 47:34 'Cause of rain. And thank God that happened, because then I started to go, "Oh..." 'Cause it's all unexpected. You... And, and how Eliot said, "Hey, I'm a visualizer. I can't visualize this, this arena." And I visualize a lot too, so I was like, I felt the exact same thing when he said that. And, uh, that's when I knew, hey, these are gonna be some huge unknowns. And I had told him that night, 'cause the rain was coming. Like, it was crazy how the storm split around, 'cause it was-

Joe Rogan 47:58 Crazy

Trevor Wittman 47:58 ... all bright red. I was like, "This is thunderstorms. They, this ain't just..."

Joe Rogan 48:01 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 48:01 And it-

Joe Rogan 48:01 They were talking about pushing the fight to 10:30 PM to start.

Trevor Wittman 48:04 We had planned on fighting it later in the night.

Joe Rogan 48:06 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 48:06 Like, 2:00 in the morning was what I was planning on.

Justin Gaethje 48:07 I, I started staying up till, like, 3:00 AM. After the rehearsal-

Trevor Wittman 48:09 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 48:09 ... I was like, "It could be 3:00 AM when we fight."

Trevor Wittman 48:11 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 48:11 "I'm gonna just start staying up."

Trevor Wittman 48:12 But that's what was cool. Like, the walkout, like, having the soldiers. Like, dude, just walking through the soldiers. There was... That... We weren't able to take any of this in, Joe. Uh, and I can't really speak for him.

Joe Rogan 48:23 I couldn't.

Trevor Wittman 48:23 I know where his mind's at. I couldn't, uh, from a coach's standpoint. I was nervous as fuck, 'cause you don't know, you, there's no pattern I can take on right now and kind of put myself and breathe through it. It was very unique. And at the end I couldn't even really smile. It was just like, dude, I'm just, like, blown away. Now I can kinda just look around slowly and just try to take in everything. Because it was very, very hard to, to go through that scenario with the pressure of us fighting on, uh, uh, on this stage at the White House. We're the Americans. We're a six to one underdog. That gets to you. That, that, you know, when you hear that-

Justin Gaethje 48:58 It fucking is

Trevor Wittman 48:58 ... over and over and over and over, it's, you know, you, there you go.

Joe Rogan 49:01 Oh, you're connecting your phone.

Trevor Wittman 49:02 Dude, you, you caught one.

Joe Rogan 49:03 You're connecting your phone.

Trevor Wittman 49:03 You caught a marlin. But, uh, having, uh, uh-

Joe Rogan 49:08 Till you left

Trevor Wittman 49:09 ... just, just that scenario was so unique. And then once it was over, then it was like, now I get to enjoy the White House and just being here and this, this, this environment.

Joe Rogan 49:18 There you can see it. What is he reading there? [laughs] Is that the Declaration of Independence? Yeah. Yeah, so we weren't in the room with him right there. We, uh, through the, the rehearsal, yeah- How crazy is that? We got to take a look. It's crazy. He's in the Oval Office stepping out. And then all the soldiers walking through, so cool, like having the two guys next to him. And a lot of people complained about this happening at the White House, but you don't think this is cool? This is, dude, it's fighting. Like, how could you, how could you not like this? This is fighting. How could anyone not... This shouldn't be taking place at the White... Shut the fuck up. Dude, life is a fight. This- World is a fight, like- This is incredible to watch ... inspirational. It's a wild thing to watch. By the way, how much gold did Trump put on those walls? Dude, it's crazy, dude. Look, he's got gold everywhere. Look at these fucking gold designs. When we were at the, the, the Oval Office, first thing I said is I was like, "This thing is small as hell." Like, when I see it on pictures- Right ... it, like, seems so big, and I was, uh, it, but the gold pieces on the wall is the first thing, I was like, they dust that shit every day, 'cause, dude, it was so clean. Well, he put that up there. Really? None of that was there. None of that was there. He was explaining it to me. There was no gold, I wanted to have gold. He's got a gold cherub, like a solid gold cherub that's above, like, one of the doors. He goes, "If Putin comes, hopefully it doesn't fall on his head." [laughs] It's like, he's got gold everywhere. It's all him. He redesigned a bunch of the things in there. You know, he's a builder, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's why he wanted to do the ballroom. That's why he wanted to keep, you know... He likes everything in gold. He's a gold guy. [laughs] What was that, Austin Powers? Bro, watch- "I love gold" We were just watching you look at the Declaration- Dude ... of Independence before you walked out, which is also wild. Like, this is never gonna happen again. This is more historic than Rumble in the Jungle, more historic than e- I mean, think about all the great fights that we've all watched as kids that we're like, "Remember that?" This tops everything- Yeah ... because of the scene, because of the fact that n- not only is it at the White House, but the American, who's a six to one on some books underdog, pulls it off in spectacular fashion. And just the seesaw of the fight, too. The back and forth. The back and forth- That's what made it ... of the fight

Joe Rogan 51:19 was fucking huge- Yeah, it's huge ... because the second round was crazy. It was like- Yeah ... "Oh, no, it's getting..." And letting it go on again- Yeah ... when, when, so our corner, all the coaches were like, "Dude, they're gonna stop it." And I was, said out loud, I was like, "Please let it go on." Mm. And I just wanted a fini- like a, like a- Definitive ending ... dude, 'cause that would've been a point where it's like, especially with him going, "Hey, I wanna go and continue," and then we have Goddard come out and say, "You are-" Thank God for Mark Goddard. Yeah. Okay? 'Cause if it wasn't for Mark Goddard, if another less experienced referee- He wanted out. You think he did?

Justin Gaethje 51:48 He, he wanted out.

Joe Rogan 51:49 Yeah? You don't-

Justin Gaethje 51:50 You don't s- you know for a fact you do not ever as a fighter say, "I cannot see." It's over.

Joe Rogan 51:56 Right.

Justin Gaethje 51:56 And he was counting on that. He said he had already stated it. He didn't need to say it again. He did not think there was, I don't think he thought there was gonna fight back out there.

Joe Rogan 52:01 So you think that he called Goddard a turkey internally? He was like, when he said, "Oh, you're gonna go fight," he's like-

Justin Gaethje 52:06 No, I mean-

Joe Rogan 52:07 ... "Hey, I was playing that, though."

Justin Gaethje 52:08 ... in that moment he just like, "I've done, you know, I've, I'm, I've tried..." And it might've been, like, you know, the little devil on his shoulder trying to get him out, and then he reevaluated and rethunk it and understood that he had to keep fighting.

Joe Rogan 52:20 Did you say thunk? Thunk it.

Justin Gaethje 52:21 Rethunk it.

Joe Rogan 52:22 Dude, that's the dumbest idea.

Justin Gaethje 52:23 But I think, I, I s-

Joe Rogan 52:24 Really? That's a real word?

Justin Gaethje 52:25 I stopped him.

Joe Rogan 52:25 No.

Justin Gaethje 52:25 I s-

Joe Rogan 52:26 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 52:27 I stopped him, I stopped-

Joe Rogan 52:28 Paul's like, "What was it?" [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 52:29 I stopped him twice. I stopped him twice that night.

Joe Rogan 52:32 Right.

Justin Gaethje 52:32 There's no doubt about it.

Joe Rogan 52:33 That's interesting. I loved it. Yeah. I loved it. This episode is brought to you by onX Offroad. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes or tucked away dispersed campsites? With onX Offroad, you'll find legal open trails around you, and even better, guided trails mapped by real off-roaders. Each one includes photos, terrain descriptions, and difficulty ratings, so you'll know if your vehicle's capable before you go. Unlike other apps, onX gives you turn-by-turn directions on the trail, and their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp. You also get private land boundaries, public land overlays, and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing, even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off-roaders. Try onX Offroad for 50% off. Go to onXmaps.com/joerogan. Well, it was, um, it was a big factor that Goddard let it go on, because then we got to see that epic fourth round, which is fucking crazy, which was just, in the end when you landed that knee to the body, that was, like, the final- Oh, yeah ... that was it. That knee to the body was nasty.

Justin Gaethje 53:46 And then the punch is right where he landed that heavy knee, that he just starts chopping it where he's got the elbow in.

Joe Rogan 53:51 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then, then he has to quit on a stool. And if Goddard had just given to that referee or the judges or the, the doctor's rather desires, here it is. Oh. I love how you punch right here, right on the spot.

Justin Gaethje 54:05 Yeah, he fell.

Joe Rogan 54:06 Oh, right there, yeah. Oh, right where I just left. [laughs] Yeah, he did not like that. Oh. And that was the end. Crazy fight. Now, I mean-

Justin Gaethje 54:16 It's crazy how different... So again, being a fan of the sport, I've got to watch, you know, I would've usually watched this from... And yeah, it would've been the most fucking incredible thing ever. Being the fighter, you know, you're really not appreciating any of that, because you're so locked into-

Joe Rogan 54:31 You're in the moment

Justin Gaethje 54:32 ... it's like golfing. Like, you don't know, but golfing is, like, certain swing thoughts.

Joe Rogan 54:36 Mm-hmm.

Justin Gaethje 54:36 You know? And nothing else can come in. Nothing can creep in. And so me looking at the Declaration of Independence, I was looking at it, but I, I didn't, I didn't take it in as, as this being the Declaration. I was just sitting there and I was like, "Okay, gotta reset his feet, gotta control, gotta move left, gotta move left, can't get against the fence." You know, and then those are the thoughts I'm having as the whole, through the whole walkout. And so I'm really not taking any of it in as it, as it, you know, as the show or as the theatrics of it.

Joe Rogan 55:06 Of course not.

Justin Gaethje 55:07 Watching it in hindsight, obviously is, it's fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 55:10 There was something special about you warming up with the American flag around your shoulder, too. I agree. We were watching that. There was something special- Yeah ... about watching you shadowbox before all this with the American flag on. I was like If he wins, good lord. If he wins tonight, it's gonna be fucking insane, and it was. It's the, the f- the feeling of, like, joy throughout the building, throughout the grounds, like the happiness that everybody had seen-

Trevor Wittman 55:36 Yeah

Joe Rogan 55:36 ... had been there to see such an incredible event and such an amazing cap to that event with your fight, it was just nuts.

Trevor Wittman 55:43 It felt like a whole arena to me. It was crazy for the amount of people that you could see.

Joe Rogan 55:47 And here it is, to d- backflipping in front of the fucking White House.

Trevor Wittman 55:51 There, the double.

Joe Rogan 55:51 And he f- [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 55:52 Dude, he flag pole- Hey, that's gonna be a sick-

Joe Rogan 55:54 Dude, you flag pole, dude

Trevor Wittman 55:54 ... that's a, that's a sick picture.

Justin Gaethje 55:56 I rolled out of there.

Joe Rogan 55:57 It was, yeah, hey, wait, hey, tell me, tell me what was it? Tell me the w- what'd you use, Newton's law you said?

Justin Gaethje 56:02 Newton's first law, object in motion needs to stay, I just stayed in motion.

Joe Rogan 56:06 [laughs] Stay in motion.

Justin Gaethje 56:07 That's all it is.

Joe Rogan 56:08 Look at the size of that fucking crowd that was outside.

Justin Gaethje 56:10 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 56:10 You couldn't see this crowd. Like, I couldn't see this crowd.

Justin Gaethje 56:13 No.

Trevor Wittman 56:13 But having the environment-

Joe Rogan 56:14 You know what, though? You could hear them-

Trevor Wittman 56:15 Dude

Joe Rogan 56:15 ... and you could feel them.

Trevor Wittman 56:17 Dude, crazy

Joe Rogan 56:17 You could feel the energy. I mean, even though there was only 4,000 people, did not, did not feel like 4,000 people. It felt like 100,000 people because all those people were behind us.

Trevor Wittman 56:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:27 You know, it was different.

Trevor Wittman 56:28 How many people were in that pl- at that thing?

Joe Rogan 56:30 85,000 plus.

Trevor Wittman 56:31 Geez.

Joe Rogan 56:31 Yeah. I mean-

Justin Gaethje 56:32 It happened so fast

Joe Rogan 56:33 ... the, the, the size of the group outside was insane.

Trevor Wittman 56:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:37 I mean, and they're watching on these giant screens-

Trevor Wittman 56:39 Dude

Joe Rogan 56:39 ... and freaking out and-

Trevor Wittman 56:40 Like a concert.

Joe Rogan 56:41 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 56:41 When we were at the weigh-ins, it was like, dude, that's what I pictured, like, Woodstock being like. Dude, I looked and I could not see the end of the people.

Joe Rogan 56:47 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 56:48 It was crazy.

Joe Rogan 56:48 No, it was nu- the weigh-ins were nuts. When we first walked out, I was like, "Holy shit"-

Trevor Wittman 56:52 Dude

Joe Rogan 56:52 ... "this is crazy." But it just shows how hyped people were for this event.

Trevor Wittman 56:57 Mm.

Joe Rogan 56:57 You know, I mean, it was an incredible event. I mean, the UFC-

Justin Gaethje 57:00 It really was

Joe Rogan 57:00 ... production team, they just knocked it out of the park, and then more importantly, you knocked it out of the park.

Justin Gaethje 57:05 It could not have gone better.

Joe Rogan 57:06 This is the cap. It couldn't have gone better. And the, uh, the most important thing was that you did have to overcome, that we did see a real back and forth, and we did see the skills that led people to believe that this guy is the number one pound for pound fighter in the world. I mean, his fucking boxing is elite.

Trevor Wittman 57:21 He's, he's-

Joe Rogan 57:21 It is slick

Trevor Wittman 57:22 ... sharpshooter and big-

Justin Gaethje 57:23 But, I mean, my coach is a fucking genius. I mean, when it comes to, like, again, it's really hard to... Uh, you always sound right in hindsight, but the strategy we had was so perfect to fight a guy like that. I mean, if you, I think if you ask him right now which way was Justin moving, he's gonna think I was moving right the whole time because my head is so, so heavy and I lean over to that side, but I was moving left the entire time. And he's so pointed that, you know, he, he's powerful here, but when you, when you put him here, like, nobody can push and sprint. Like, he's not ever gonna take off sprinting that way as fast as he can. He's gonna have to gather and reset and then, and then point and then go, and I constantly kept readjusting him. And it was so subtle, and that's what fighting is, is subtle, subtle movements. But I mean, his game plan was, was... And then his game plan, his mind, my, uh, ability, but really it's my athletic ability. Like, if people don't understand how athletic I am, and I think that is what surprises every opponent I've ever fought, is how, you know, herky-jerky, twitchy, how explosive and how athletic I am, and I think that's the biggest asset that I have.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Why do you think anybody would be surprised by that at this stage? Uh, why do you think they're surprised?

Justin Gaethje 58:52 Because the hu- 'cause it doesn't look like that.

Trevor Wittman 58:54 No, you're, I, I, Justin, I think you're looking into the Paddy fight. I feel like, uh, the Paddy fight, you, you... 'Cause a lot of people were like, "Oh, you look older, you look this"-

Justin Gaethje 59:02 Oh, yeah

Trevor Wittman 59:02 ... 'cause the way we fought. Like, our sty- our, our game plan in the Paddy fight-

Justin Gaethje 59:05 I'm not... How sweet is that now? I mean, if you watched the Paddy fight, you would never expect, you would only expect punches coming from here.

Joe Rogan 59:11 That's the, the, we were like-

Justin Gaethje 59:12 That's all I threw

Joe Rogan 59:12 ... 'cause he would pull with his body.

Justin Gaethje 59:14 And I had to, like, wrangle him in.

Joe Rogan 59:15 Wrangle him in.

Trevor Wittman 59:16 Mm-hmm.

Justin Gaethje 59:16 And this guy, no shot came here.

Trevor Wittman 59:18 Like palm strikes.

Justin Gaethje 59:19 It was all-

Trevor Wittman 59:19 Like, we need to palm strike him. We need to keep him inside of our loop and, uh, if, if you're throwing straight shots at Paddy, Paddy will disengage very long with his, his upper body. So he was throwing wild shots and then long uppercuts. Like, stay on the outside. We're not throwing the uppercuts 'cause Paddy's got very good knees coming in, so we can't get too deep with the head. Very simple plan, but it also, it was like make it chaotic. As most chaotic as you could be, uh, to be able to do that, 'cause Paddy, his blitzing was very fast. He's a very good blitzer. He'll, he'll blitz past you and almost, like, running type of punches, like, uh, ol- old, uh, Vitor Belfort. But this fight is a lot different, where it's now elbows in, we have to be tight in these types of positions, and we need to step to his center and get on his back foot line or outside of his back foot line, and that was, like, a key factor to this one, is because Ilia's very front heavy and will bounce back and forth. So once he goes to this angle, we need to attack the rear shoulder, and once he starts to reset, now we're gonna be able to jab. And stick the jab at the rear shoulder where your jab was landing. That is my favorite part, is the jab wasn't landing here where Ilia's got a very good slide. We're jabbing outside, so you're not doing inside jab coming under. You're jabbing from outside your shoulder, which is pushing him on his rear foot. And then once we started to pressure, my favorite part is the, the jab, pause right hand. His left foot, Justin's left foot, when we go-

Justin Gaethje 1:00:35 See, I'm moving left here

Trevor Wittman 1:00:36 ... has to be, has to be-

Justin Gaethje 1:00:37 I'm moving left, moving left

Trevor Wittman 1:00:37 ... outside his rear foot.

Justin Gaethje 1:00:37 Moving left

Trevor Wittman 1:00:38 ... like right there. He opened his lead foot and he got his foot outside, and that's also so in case the right hand count- counter comes.

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 That was a giant moment in the fight-

Trevor Wittman 1:00:45 Giant moment

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 ... when that right hand-

Trevor Wittman 1:00:45 Dude, the sound of it was crazy

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 ... oh, I almost, I wanted to stuff his ass

Trevor Wittman 1:00:48 ... and then snap it down. Boom. Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 Oh, that was such a hard shot.

Trevor Wittman 1:00:50 Do, do that one more time, Jamie, and watch his lead foot after the jab. Now watch his left foot after the jab. Outside the rear foot, boom. And that, because he's got a high shoulder. And if, if I'm-

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 Mm

Trevor Wittman 1:01:00 ... throwing a right hand down this point, uh, if you were looking at me, Joe, if you're, i- if, if I'm here, if he gets his foot out, now the shot is coming from here.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Wittman 1:01:08 So we're able to put him on the back foot and find that op- 'cause Ilia's got a very good shoulder tuck.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 He also dropped that right hand down.

Trevor Wittman 1:01:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 It was beautiful. It was beautiful, and it was such a giant moment in the fight.

Justin Gaethje 1:01:19 But, see, like, look where I started. I started with my back to us, and look how I left, left.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 Mm-hmm.

Justin Gaethje 1:01:26 Left, left, left.

Trevor Wittman 1:01:29 But if you go out to the left, backwards, where that's where, uh, Ilia to me is the best. How he stopped Volk, where he'll throw at you, and then you go, and then, then h- he readjusts his lead shoulder almost to his alpha. Super dangerous there. That was one thing we talk about, we cannot go backwards to the left, 'cause that's where we get square, and Ilia, dude, he's, he's very front heavy, so he will attack you quick, and he gets there fast.

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 Well, if he can recover from this, it's gonna be a big lesson.

Trevor Wittman 1:01:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 A big lesson learned and, you know-

Justin Gaethje 1:01:57 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 ... I wonder if he'll still have those celebration dinners the night before.

Justin Gaethje 1:02:00 [sighs] There's no way.

Trevor Wittman 1:02:02 He better not. Dude, his co- [laughs] his team. That's, that's up to his coaches, to be honest with you.

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 It, it's, it's ama-

Trevor Wittman 1:02:06 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 ... hubris is an amazing thing. Like, it, it, people love that kind of confidence. They love that belief in themselves, and when someone pulls it off, people were br- talking for days about the Oliveira fight.

Trevor Wittman 1:02:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 You know, he celebrated the night before.

Trevor Wittman 1:02:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 Isn't that crazy?

Trevor Wittman 1:02:19 And it, and it worked that time. And it, it played out great for him.

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 It worked that time. But the lack of experience being the nail.

Justin Gaethje 1:02:26 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 So much experience being the hammer.

Justin Gaethje 1:02:27 It's just-

Joe Rogan 1:02:28 And, and also-

Justin Gaethje 1:02:28 ... the expectations

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 ... yes

Justin Gaethje 1:02:29 ... he never thought he would have to be here.

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 But you keep sa- Th- I wanted to go back to this thing that you said, that people don't think you're athletic, and I don't agree with that.

Trevor Wittman 1:02:36 I don't either.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 I don't understand why you think that.

Justin Gaethje 1:02:38 No, I don't... [sighs] I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 It made me watch the Michael Johnson fight

Justin Gaethje 1:02:42 ... e- even when I-

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 And doesn't think you're athletic

Justin Gaethje 1:02:44 ... got to co- I got to college, you know, my freshman year of college, and I did a, a cartwheel to a backflip, and these guy, two, one guy was like, "I would have never fucking guessed you could do some [laughs] shit like that. Like, I just don't understand." You know, if you look at me, I don't look like an athlete, but-

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 Dude, you won a Ferrari.

Justin Gaethje 1:03:02 Yeah, I don't know. No, I, I know how my bo-

Trevor Wittman 1:03:04 Wait, wait, wait, wait

Justin Gaethje 1:03:05 ... I know how athletic I am. I just think your-

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 What are you talking about?

Justin Gaethje 1:03:07 ... the perception-

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 No, no, no. Your perception's crazy. Listen.

Trevor Wittman 1:03:10 Yeah, it is crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 You look like an athlete.

Trevor Wittman 1:03:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 What the fuck are you talking about?

Trevor Wittman 1:03:12 Dude, he, he, see, dude, he sent me this picture when I first met him from, he went up to do a, a, a clinic with his coach up in Granby with, uh, Ben Charenton. And, uh, he sends me this video out of nowhere. I open it up, and he's got a soccer ball, and he's in this auditorium with the pads down on the ground. And he's got his phone set up on the, the, the pads that are against the wall. He throws the soccer ball up in the air, and he does one of those bicycle kicks. Never did he play just like one or two years soccer.

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 He's a gainer.

Trevor Wittman 1:03:38 He did a bicycle kick, landed on his feet, and the ball knocked the phone off the freaking thing, dude. He hit the freaking phone.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 1:03:45 It was the coolest thing I've ever seen. I was like, "Bro, you are nuts." This guy, snowboarding, when we would snowboard, 'cause I rode professional d- when I was younger, got taken out, out of, uh, uh, high school for it. And he, this dude, he would catch things so fast, and his tumbling. There was one time we were watching him, and he was in moguls, and moguls suck on a snowboard. He does this 360, catches his edge, falls to his back, and bounces off one of the moguls to a back flip right back into the moguls. And, dude, these people on the side thought he meant to do that shit.

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 1:04:13 They were like, "Dude!"

Justin Gaethje 1:04:14 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 1:04:14 I was like, "Bro, his tumbling skills, dude, you're freaking nuts. You are a athlete. I think everybody knows you're an athlete."

Justin Gaethje 1:04:19 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:19 Well, you're not built like Paulo Costa, if that's what you mean.

Justin Gaethje 1:04:22 Yeah, I just-

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 You know, it's like you're not... You, you know, there's, there's guys that have less body fat than you, and guys that have more prominent muscles than you, but nobody looks at you fighting and doesn't think you're athletic. That's crazy.

Trevor Wittman 1:04:32 I think it's the experts after the Paddy fight saying, "Oh, he looked sloppy." And some fights gotta be sloppy.

Joe Rogan 1:04:38 Those people are retarded.

Trevor Wittman 1:04:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 Th- that fight looked like-

Trevor Wittman 1:04:41 There you go

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 ... like chaos. Looked like you were gonna press him.

Trevor Wittman 1:04:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 And you, you, it also looked like you k- were kind of disdainful of his, his ability to hurt you.

Trevor Wittman 1:04:49 There you go.

Joe Rogan 1:04:49 You just... Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:04:50 Well, no, once I-

Trevor Wittman 1:04:51 You, you know exactly.

Justin Gaethje 1:04:51 Yeah. Once, once I didn't respect his power, it was like, I'm fucking walking through.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 Yeah, and that's what it looked like. It looked like you were just, just trying to make it as chaotic as possible.

Trevor Wittman 1:05:00 You make it sound like you had, like, a water boy. Like, someone was like, "Ooh, the water sucks."

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:05:05 And he's like, "Ooh," making the noises. Dude, you-

Joe Rogan 1:05:09 No

Trevor Wittman 1:05:09 ... you don't, but you, you-

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 But that's also-

Trevor Wittman 1:05:11 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 ... imp- uh, probably a good thing that you think about yourself that way, you know? Because it forces you to rise above and beyond anybody's expectations of you, you know? And I think one of the things about this fight that makes it so important is because S- Ilia was so dangerous, you had to get, like, deep in the z- You couldn't have a moment like the Max fight. You couldn't-

Justin Gaethje 1:05:33 Well, it wa- The Max fight got me here. Without that, I would've never been as hungry. I said it was gonna happen, and it didn't happen, didn't happen, didn't happen. Then it happened, and it's like, okay, now I can, I can never let my parents see me like that again. That was, that was a driving factor. Like, I can never let my mom... I remember getting knocked out. I don't remember getting knocked out. I got knocked out. I don't remember anything. I don't remember him getting his hand raised, and it had to have been 40 minutes to an hour. And then I just, my first recollection is being in the ambulance and seeing my mom's face.

Trevor Wittman 1:06:07 Can I tell you that, can I tell that story?

Justin Gaethje 1:06:09 Yeah, yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:06:09 Dude-

Justin Gaethje 1:06:09 Tell me what I did, 'cause I still don't know

Trevor Wittman 1:06:11 ... so we're in the ambulance, okay? And you never know how you-

Justin Gaethje 1:06:14 Well, you weren't there, too. You were there the whole thing, guys.

Trevor Wittman 1:06:15 Yeah, I was, I was, I was sitting there with you.

Justin Gaethje 1:06:16 You were there when I came back.

Trevor Wittman 1:06:17 Your mom's standing outside the back doors, and we're waiting for the driver. The, the, the, there's a medic in there with us, but he's, he's good. But he keeps asking the same question over and over, and it's-

Justin Gaethje 1:06:25 I still don't remember any of this

Trevor Wittman 1:06:26 ... and I'm worried about, like, you know, everybody's parents are different on how they react, you know? And, uh, his mom was just cool. Just, like, I was so impressed. I was so impressed with her just spirit of seeing that happen. But Justin's laying there, and he's like, he's cool in everything he does. So he's got, like, this cool, like, lay, like, lay, he's like, you know, just got, he's stopped. And he's laying there, and he's like l- He'll look at me, and he, he goes like, his head, he's like, "I got knocked out?" And I was like, "Yeah."

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 It's like 40, this is like 40 minutes in.

Trevor Wittman 1:06:53 He's like, "What round? What round?" And I said, "Last second of the fight." And he goes, "Good for him." Dude, then it w-

Joe Rogan 1:07:00 Wow

Trevor Wittman 1:07:00 ... then, dude, I'm telling you, like, two minutes would go by, and we'd just be having normal conversation, and he'd, he'd look at me, "Did I get knocked out?" And I was like, "Yep." And dude, it happened over, and over, and over.

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 Well, you've had that happen with fighters, yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:07:11 Yes, but him saying, "Good for him," the way he said it every time that he came back to it, like, the, that's the type of person Justin is. Like, if, if he lose in competition

Justin Gaethje 1:07:22 The better man won that night, and that to me is something that stands out to me

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 That's character

Justin Gaethje 1:07:26 ... is character of him saying when he does it, that, that's subconscious traits that you have.

Joe Rogan 1:07:31 That character-

Justin Gaethje 1:07:31 That's the type of person

Joe Rogan 1:07:31 ... is also the character that allows you to reach your full potential.

Justin Gaethje 1:07:34 Absolutely

Joe Rogan 1:07:34 'Cause you're not being held back by any bullshit ego things.

Justin Gaethje 1:07:38 Not fake

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 'Cause there's a lot of people that are held back. As good as they are, they don't ever reach their full potential because they have some bullshit ego problems.

Justin Gaethje 1:07:45 Absolutely. They care of what everybody thinks.

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 And that, in that situation, losing that fight in the last second of the last round and having that reaction, that is the truest c- test of-

Justin Gaethje 1:07:55 Dude

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 ... character that-

Justin Gaethje 1:07:56 The best

Joe Rogan 1:07:56 ... a man is ever gonna go through.

Justin Gaethje 1:07:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 That, that is as true a test of character ever. In front of the whole world.

Justin Gaethje 1:08:01 What, what I remember first is seeing my mom's face, though. I saw her face and I saw no concern. I just... She was worried about me, but she was not concerned.

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 She wasn't freaked out.

Justin Gaethje 1:08:12 No, she wasn't freaked out at all. I was like... And that's when I, I, I never-

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 That was awesome

Justin Gaethje 1:08:16 ... I never reset and asked if I had gotten knocked out again after that moment, I don't think.

Trevor Wittman 1:08:21 No, no, once... It, it happened for probably, I, I'd say you probably asked it six or seven times, and then once it, it... Then we were cool for probably five minutes before we went to the hospital. Then you were totally cool. The, the cool part about this, Joe, is those are some of my... And, and it sucks because y- he's, he's taking a shot like this, but me as a coach and a, as, as someone that just loves fighting and loves the inspiration and, and what these guys do, is those are my proudest moments. Winning a fight like this, it was proud and, and, and, you know, take it in, you're going, "Wow, this is a cool spot to be in," and you have to be grateful for it. But there's times where I'm caught smiling when my fighters are down, like when, when Kamaru got, uh, got kicked and I stood next to him with the biggest smile just 'cause I'm like, "Dude, you went out on your shield. You were looking so good." And this is... The way you stand up, again, so important to me. Justin Salas one time with Tim Means, it was one of my proudest moments, just to see his, his subconscious. Like, I love the mindset of people.

Justin Gaethje 1:09:16 Oh, that hard knee.

Trevor Wittman 1:09:17 Dude, Tim Means hits him with a knee, and he fights through it a little bit and takes another knee and he goes down and he's on the ground, and his right leg is still, like, moving and he's, like, still punching, and he's out. And I'm like, dude, that's a fighting spirit. Like, there is no quitted. Like, you're, you're-

Justin Gaethje 1:09:33 Yeah

Trevor Wittman 1:09:33 ... fighting through being knocked out. And subconsciously he's still in the fight, and his body is still reacting that way instead of shelling up and being like, "I just got rocked. I'm gonna shell up." I could not wait to get in the octagon, and they're, like, not trying to let me in. I'm like, "Let me just get over to him and sit next to him and put some ice on him back." When we stop, guys, I'm always over to the other opponent first. To me, that's, that's the coolest part, is being able to see someone go out there and do their best, and then to watch them come back. And that's why I'm ve- I'm very excited to kind of see what happens with Ilia. This is gonna be a hard one to overcome, but I hope he

Trevor Wittman 1:10:03 does, 'cause he's, he's, he's that talented. If he takes the right lessons, that's gonna be a super inspirational thing to overcome. It's gonna be hard, but I w- I, I sure hope we get to witness that.

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 I wonder if he's gonna stay at 155.

Trevor Wittman 1:10:17 I don't... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:17 There are big guys at 155.

Trevor Wittman 1:10:19 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:10:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:20 And he's, he wasn't that big for 45. You know?

Trevor Wittman 1:10:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:24 You think about weight cutting in the modern era. Like, you were, you're considerably bigger than him. When you guys were standing next to each other, I'm like-

Justin Gaethje 1:10:30 Yeah, you could tell

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 ... this is, there's a, a big difference in frame.

Justin Gaethje 1:10:32 I've also really focused on getting bigger the last three or four fights.

Joe Rogan 1:10:36 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:10:37 Yeah. I mean, I f-

Trevor Wittman 1:10:38 You were 183 in a Patty fight

Justin Gaethje 1:10:40 ... the night, the night of weigh- Yeah, I was 183 when the fight started.

Trevor Wittman 1:10:41 183 in a Patty fight, so he was, he was big.

Justin Gaethje 1:10:44 I touched, I touched 180s this fight. Uh, we weighed in on Saturday at 11:00. Saturday when I went to bed I think I was 184.

Trevor Wittman 1:10:51 Oh, wow.

Justin Gaethje 1:10:52 And then, and then I think when I woke up, I was like 176. That's how much wa- we're flowing. It's crazy. [laughs] Our bodies are crazy.

Trevor Wittman 1:10:59 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:10:59 Right, especially because all the weight cutting, right?

Justin Gaethje 1:11:00 But I think when I got there, I was pissing so much. I was actually too hydrated for the drug test, so I had to piss three, three times. I couldn't drink water. Um-

Trevor Wittman 1:11:09 You were too hydrated for a drug test? How's that work?

Justin Gaethje 1:11:12 Yeah. So if, if the piss is too diluted, then they make you do it again.

Trevor Wittman 1:11:16 Really?

Justin Gaethje 1:11:17 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:11:17 That's, that's why, you know, doing it after a fight's-

Justin Gaethje 1:11:19 They do like a-

Trevor Wittman 1:11:19 I used to do it after the fights all the time

Justin Gaethje 1:11:21 ... they do like a gravity test

Trevor Wittman 1:11:22 ... but your adrenaline's going, so you don't pee, so it takes a long time.

Joe Rogan 1:11:25 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:11:25 So like we've sat in locker rooms for hours waiting for the piss test. But when you're doing it after, like, rehydration, that's a shitty thing because these guys have to hydrate.

Joe Rogan 1:11:32 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:11:32 Everybody's fucking taking as much fluids as they can, so that makes it tough. But with the weight cutting, uh, uh, piece with him going back down, I agree with you. I think Ilia is a smaller body, but he's also... A big advantage for Ilia is speed.

Joe Rogan 1:11:44 His speed.

Trevor Wittman 1:11:44 And when you go up in weight, that speed is a huge factor. That-

Joe Rogan 1:11:47 Right

Trevor Wittman 1:11:47 ... if, if you see a lot of guys go up, like with Max, Max kept s- kept his speed when he came up.

Joe Rogan 1:11:51 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Wittman 1:11:51 He, when he went back down, I think, you know, everybody was like, "Oh, he beat Max." He beat a drained Max.

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 Yeah, I think that weight cut down to 45 for him was brutal.

Justin Gaethje 1:11:59 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:12:00 That's... And this is where [sighs] i- from, like, a coaching standpoint, if it is hard for you to make it at that weight, I care about the longevity of, of a person, and I've seen guys get dropped with jabs because of bad weight cuts.

Joe Rogan 1:12:12 Yes.

Trevor Wittman 1:12:13 And that, going back down and, and, and... That's, to me, the scariest part in this, in this, this, uh, fight game.

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 Well, I think there's two things we have to change in the fight game. One of them is weight cutting, and two of them is your gloves.

Trevor Wittman 1:12:24 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:12:24 You gotta bring your fucking gloves in.

Trevor Wittman 1:12:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:26 But the weight cutting thing, don't you think that we need more weight classes?

Trevor Wittman 1:12:30 Uh, I, I should say that-

Joe Rogan 1:12:32 So I-

Trevor Wittman 1:12:32 I should say, do you think we need more weight classes?

Justin Gaethje 1:12:34 So-

Trevor Wittman 1:12:34 I think there's, there's, there's many ways. Like I, I think you're gonna have to have some type of a, a, a, a weight class, and there's different ways to do it. Like maybe you, you have where you can't go over a certain amount of weight after you make weight, and you weigh in a week out where you can really recover, because-

Joe Rogan 1:12:49 But I think guys are gonna do it anyway, and you're just gonna have bad performances

Justin Gaethje 1:12:52 They are, but I think, I think for me, I want nothing to change. I mean, we are grown-ass men and women, and we're making these choices.

Trevor Wittman 1:13:01 Right, but you can make 55 and it's good for your frame. Now imagine these guys that are tweener.

Justin Gaethje 1:13:04 You don't understand how hard it is for me to make 55.

Trevor Wittman 1:13:06 Yeah. I'm sure it's hard. No, no, no, I'm not thinking it's easy. But you can make it.

Justin Gaethje 1:13:09 I don't wa-

Trevor Wittman 1:13:09 You've made it over and over and over again

Justin Gaethje 1:13:10 ... ever want to do it again.

Trevor Wittman 1:13:11 But, like, think about guys that are in between.

Joe Rogan 1:13:13 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:13:14 Like there's, there's-

Joe Rogan 1:13:15 Should be a 60, 60 or, or a 65-

Trevor Wittman 1:13:16 Right

Joe Rogan 1:13:16 ... or like in boxing now.

Trevor Wittman 1:13:17 70 to 85 is crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:13:18 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:13:18 85 to 205 is bananas.

Joe Rogan 1:13:21 Right. Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:13:21 And then 205 to 265-

Justin Gaethje 1:13:22 Yeah, but those di-

Trevor Wittman 1:13:23 That's-

Justin Gaethje 1:13:23 ... those weight classes are already watered down In a way. And so you're just gonna water it down more?

Trevor Wittman 1:13:29 So-

Joe Rogan 1:13:29 Hmm

Trevor Wittman 1:13:29 ... the- these are my thoughts and my t- uh, research that I've done that, that it's, it's... I've talked to Dr. D about it, uh, and I, I want to get some expert, some doctor, who can actually talk to me about this. Because when I started researching boxing and why is there so many deaths in boxing, what stood out to me was almost every death in boxing in the last 10 to 15 years-

Justin Gaethje 1:13:53 Comes after-

Trevor Wittman 1:13:54 It, it, there's every once in a while it's from a punch, where they get dropped and they don't get up and, uh, uh, they get hemorrhaging. Almost all of them are past the ninth round, especially the ones I'm talking about that don't take a punch. They're past the ninth round and it looks like they start to get tired and they're just like, "Hey, I need to take a knee and lay down." A lot of these guys are winning the fight and not even taking a lot of damage. And if we're cutting weight the day before, you're teaching your body to sweat and sweat and sweat. To me, I believe... Because I've had a fighter to, uh, where th- you know, Kamaru in his last, uh, uh, uh, fight, we were cramping so bad.

Joe Rogan 1:14:29 Oh.

Trevor Wittman 1:14:29 So scary. So freaking scary. Like I almost called that fight.

Justin Gaethje 1:14:31 I was like, "Bro, call it off."

Trevor Wittman 1:14:32 Dude.

Justin Gaethje 1:14:32 "Call it off."

Trevor Wittman 1:14:32 You know, I was within, like, like, minutes of calling. I talked to the whole team about it. But if you dehy- dehydrate yourself, think of my lips. If they get dehydrated, they crack when I smile. And if you dehydrate your brain... And I had talked to Dr. D. I was like, "Is it, could that be something if you dehydrate your brain? Would cause something?" He's like, "Absolutely." And then I started to research that. But if you go back and look at all the boxers, and if we can get someone that can do their true research that understands this stuff, that to me is, like, what scares me about weight cutting. 'Cause you're training your body to lose that amount of weight, and when you start to do things in patterns,

Trevor Wittman 1:15:03 you just de- took all the nutrients out of your body, and then you're going hard in a fight like that. And that was, like, the big thing with the Tony Ferguson fight that's kind of funny now, but it wasn't funny to me. I didn't give him no [laughs] fucking water for a five-round fight. That is crazy. And the, the longer you take your brain to that point of dehydration, that's scary thing-

Joe Rogan 1:15:19 Why didn't you give him water? You just forgot?

Trevor Wittman 1:15:20 Dude.

Justin Gaethje 1:15:21 Yeah, we were locked in.

Trevor Wittman 1:15:21 This guy don't train with water, so it's like, dude-

Justin Gaethje 1:15:23 Yeah, I don't drink water

Trevor Wittman 1:15:24 ... I trained myself-

Justin Gaethje 1:15:24 I don't drink water in practice 'cause everyone's like, "You want water?" I'm like, "Water's for pussies."

Trevor Wittman 1:15:27 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:15:28 "No, I don't want water."

Trevor Wittman 1:15:30 Talk about the mindset.

Joe Rogan 1:15:30 You don't drink any water in training at all?

Justin Gaethje 1:15:33 No.

Trevor Wittman 1:15:33 He'll drink afterwards. Like he, we did this fight. Like, like-

Justin Gaethje 1:15:35 They made me this fight

Trevor Wittman 1:15:36 ... we did. I forced him.

Joe Rogan 1:15:36 Okay, so do you think that that- Yeah ... that just helps your mental t-

Justin Gaethje 1:15:38 Luke is my water boy.

Joe Rogan 1:15:39 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:15:39 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:15:41 No, because I... It doesn't, it can't... 'Cause I'm fucking working right now. I'm locked in. Like, I might not get water one day, you know? There might... I might want water, but-

Joe Rogan 1:15:51 Even when you're doing strength and conditioning, everything?

Justin Gaethje 1:15:53 Nothing. I never drink water if I'm practicing.

Joe Rogan 1:15:55 Wow. So you make sure you're hydrated before you get in there.

Justin Gaethje 1:15:57 And I drink a lot after. And-

Joe Rogan 1:15:59 But once you're in there, you're just going.

Justin Gaethje 1:16:01 I will not drink water.

Joe Rogan 1:16:02 Yeah, this, this, this fight was different, but yeah. That's crazy.

Trevor Wittman 1:16:04 Crazy. That's crazy.

Justin Gaethje 1:16:05 That's just me. That's just me-

Joe Rogan 1:16:06 Like, you hear about those guys who go through Ramadan

Justin Gaethje 1:16:07 ... being, being an asshole.

Joe Rogan 1:16:08 Yeah. You know, Ramadan's nuts. Mm-hmm. Like, uh, you know, I know Belal was training with no water. Mm-hmm. And, you know, drinking no water during the day, and then training again at nighttime. And, you know, that's, that's gotta be so hard. But going through hard training sessions and no water... So you're doing... But... So there's p- two things going on. One, one I would think- Yeah ... maybe you could do more work and get more rou- m- more reps in, more this, if you're rehydrating. But then the other thing is, like, would you? Yeah. And how much mental toughness are you getting by not giving yourself water? It's a, it's a crutch. Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:16:44 It's a, it's a crutch.

Joe Rogan 1:16:44 And the mental tou- toughness thing ultimately won you this fight. Yeah. There is a lot of fucking human beings at the top, top level of the sport that would've folded in that second round. You did look the happiest at the Tony Ferguson fight.

Justin Gaethje 1:16:56 I never-

Joe Rogan 1:16:56 That look you gave him when you had that water

Justin Gaethje 1:16:57 ... I never contemplated it, not once. Not for one second did I contemplate-

Joe Rogan 1:17:00 Of course

Justin Gaethje 1:17:00 ... that I was done.

Joe Rogan 1:17:01 No, I mean, you... That's, that's how you fight.

Justin Gaethje 1:17:03 He hit me, I was like, "Oh, fuck." [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 1:17:07 [laughs] Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 1:17:09 Hey, did you get to hear him in the corner?

Justin Gaethje 1:17:11 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:17:11 Dude, he goes like this.

Trevor Wittman 1:17:12 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:12 He goes, "Dude, that was a good body shot." I was like, "Yeah, that was a sweet body shot."

Trevor Wittman 1:17:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:15 Dude, who does that?

Trevor Wittman 1:17:16 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:17:17 Who sits down and is like... Dude, the look on his face wasn't like, like eyebrows like a, like a A-frame cabin.

Justin Gaethje 1:17:22 Well, even after the fight you were like-

Joe Rogan 1:17:23 You were talking about how skilled he was. Yeah. You were, you were talking about it.

Justin Gaethje 1:17:26 Yeah, I mean, I could go, I could go so many different ways with how I react to this fight. I just want it to be known how disrespectful he would've been if he beat me. If he put me to sleep, if his... I mean, can you imagine how shitty he would've been? And I mean, it would've, it would've, it, it was-

Joe Rogan 1:17:49 And the world

Justin Gaethje 1:17:49 ... the persona and the world

Joe Rogan 1:17:50 And the world

Justin Gaethje 1:17:51 ... the world would've been fucking shitty on me right now.

Joe Rogan 1:17:52 Like they're doing to him right now. Yeah, this fight, years from now, they'll be crazy.

Justin Gaethje 1:17:53 I was fighting for so much. I was fighting for so much that night.

Joe Rogan 1:17:56 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:17:56 You know, I'm never gonna let people... For one, I know how special what I've done is, and it would've taken all of it away with a loss, and I wasn't gonna let that happen.

Trevor Wittman 1:18:07 How about the people calling it hitting his loaded gloves? Did you see the picture? The, the, the-

Justin Gaethje 1:18:10 Yeah, what image?

Trevor Wittman 1:18:11 ... image. There's like rocks in his hands.

Joe Rogan 1:18:12 Oh, people are so stupid.

Justin Gaethje 1:18:13 What?

Trevor Wittman 1:18:13 Dude, so funny.

Joe Rogan 1:18:14 People are so stupid.

Justin Gaethje 1:18:15 What a compliment.

Trevor Wittman 1:18:15 Have they not watched any of his fights?

Joe Rogan 1:18:17 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:18:17 What a... People saying I'm juiced, what a compliment.

Trevor Wittman 1:18:19 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:18:19 People saying I got bricks in my fucking gloves, what a compliment.

Trevor Wittman 1:18:23 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:18:25 Fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:18:25 Fair. People are silly. You can't read the internet. There's always gonna be someone saying something.

Trevor Wittman 1:18:28 That's funny.

Justin Gaethje 1:18:29 I know, but again, you go... I got here 'cause I was petty. I, I've, I read comments.

Joe Rogan 1:18:34 True.

Justin Gaethje 1:18:34 I read comments. Um-

Trevor Wittman 1:18:36 They fuel you?

Justin Gaethje 1:18:37 They do.

Joe Rogan 1:18:37 They do. I've, I've talked to him.

Justin Gaethje 1:18:39 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:18:39 I've told him not to do it because it... I'm like, "Bro, this fucks with so many people." Says, we, we had the conversation outside.

Justin Gaethje 1:18:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:18:44 Like it's, it'll cause your mind to go crazy. And he's like, "I love it so much." [laughs] David Goggins takes haters and he records them on a loop, and then plays it to himself while he runs.

Justin Gaethje 1:18:56 [laughs] Yeah, I mean, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:18:57 It's crazy

Justin Gaethje 1:18:58 ... I don't, I don't need to have it on-

Trevor Wittman 1:18:59 He memorized that

Justin Gaethje 1:18:59 ... I don't need to have it on video. I know.

Joe Rogan 1:19:02 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:19:02 I know what they're saying.

Joe Rogan 1:19:03 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:19:03 I knew what they were saying every fucking day.

Joe Rogan 1:19:05 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:19:05 And that's, you know, partly why I won.

Joe Rogan 1:19:09 Well, it's, you know, that Teddy Roosevelt quote about the man in the arena, you know?

Justin Gaethje 1:19:13 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:19:14 That's what it is. It's like there's always gonna be people on the sidelines who are talking all the shit.

Justin Gaethje 1:19:17 You're never gonna make... It, it's impossible to make-

Joe Rogan 1:19:19 Especially at the levels that you're fighting

Justin Gaethje 1:19:20 ... as, as ambitious as you are, you can never make everybody happy.

Joe Rogan 1:19:23 No. No. That's why it's hard to be a champion.

Justin Gaethje 1:19:25 Which fucking sucks.

Trevor Wittman 1:19:25 The pressure.

Justin Gaethje 1:19:26 You know, it really is detrimental to, like, overall, like, what you're trying to achieve And it's just, it's so hard

Joe Rogan 1:19:35 Well, you can't make everybody happy because some people are just not happy, period. It's not like y- you being awesome-

Justin Gaethje 1:19:40 But you still can want them to be

Joe Rogan 1:19:41 ... is gonna make them happy. Yeah, but some people are not, they're not healthy.

Justin Gaethje 1:19:45 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:19:45 They're not mentally healthy. Their brain isn't right. They, they haven't done the right things in their life, and they see success as being somehow or another, uh, it steals their own personal joy. Other people's success is bad because they compare themselves to other people and they realize that they suck.

Justin Gaethje 1:20:00 You know, I love seeing things hap- good things happen for people.

Joe Rogan 1:20:03 Of course.

Justin Gaethje 1:20:04 Or, like-

Joe Rogan 1:20:04 Because-

Justin Gaethje 1:20:05 That's why when-

Joe Rogan 1:20:05 Come on, buddy

Justin Gaethje 1:20:05 ... when Max knocked me out, I was like, "Good for him."

Joe Rogan 1:20:07 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:20:07 Like, I'm- fucking imagine what he's feeling right now.

Joe Rogan 1:20:10 Yeah, but because you have given everything you have.

Justin Gaethje 1:20:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:13 You, you've truly maximized your potential. You've made mistakes, you've made great decisions, and ultimately-

Justin Gaethje 1:20:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:20:20 ... you wound up winning the biggest fight of all time. And-

Justin Gaethje 1:20:22 No, to exceed-

Joe Rogan 1:20:23 Yeah, but that's, that's why you can be happy for other people.

Justin Gaethje 1:20:26 Mm-hmm. To exceed your expectations from 2017, to exceed his-

Joe Rogan 1:20:30 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:20:30 ... expectations from 2011, to exceed my own expectations is... I mean, I cannot describe how special and how good that makes me feel, you know, in general.

Joe Rogan 1:20:42 My-

Justin Gaethje 1:20:42 Like, that was my goal-

Joe Rogan 1:20:44 My expectations-

Justin Gaethje 1:20:44 ... was to exceed expectations

Joe Rogan 1:20:45 ... of you, you didn't exceed 'em, man. You, you... I always had a feeling that you were gonna do some wild shit. And after the Tony Ferguson fight-

Justin Gaethje 1:20:51 You couldn't have said I was gonna do this

Joe Rogan 1:20:53 ... dude. God, no one could have fricking said this, dude. I... Listen, there was a lot of conversations that I had with people that were counting you out. Those were like-

Justin Gaethje 1:20:59 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:20:59 ... "I don't thi- I think he can win this fight, 100%." I mean, I said it on the podcast. I even said it to Ilia. Like, Ilia was saying it was gonna be easy.

Justin Gaethje 1:21:06 I was... I've, I've seen that podcast, and he was so wrong so many times.

Joe Rogan 1:21:10 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:21:10 You know, not just the whole he has zero chance against Patty. He said something about how I probably sleep during the day more than I do at night because I party too much.

Joe Rogan 1:21:21 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:21:21 And it's like, you yourself, you don't remember him saying that?

Joe Rogan 1:21:24 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:21:24 He said that, he said something about weed, and you're like, "I don't care about weed."

Joe Rogan 1:21:27 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:21:27 But for him to think that that's true is fucking insane.

Joe Rogan 1:21:31 And you have five loses.

Justin Gaethje 1:21:33 [laughs] That's just-

Joe Rogan 1:21:35 Dude, now he's got one lose, and he's gonna have to learn how to deal with that.

Justin Gaethje 1:21:37 But yeah, I mean, I was like, "Wow." I was like, "Wow, what a fucking idiot."

Joe Rogan 1:21:40 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:21:40 You know? Like, to, to think that I got here by just being a, a p- a, a guy that drinks and, you know, has fun all the time, like, that's fucking crazy. My life is so boring. I don't go to bars. I, I mean, I don't do any of that.

Joe Rogan 1:21:56 Well-

Justin Gaethje 1:21:56 I sleep n- I sleep eight to 10 hours every single night. I was sleeping 10, but it's too much, so now I have to sleep eight. But for this whole week, I was sleeping 12 hours every single night of the, of the fight week.

Joe Rogan 1:22:09 That's nice.

Justin Gaethje 1:22:10 It was so fucking nice.

Joe Rogan 1:22:11 That is nice. Y- you know, it's just one of those things. If he wanted to watch your... You, you have a YouTube channel. He could watch-

Justin Gaethje 1:22:17 Well, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:22:18 ... or he, he watched, he watched-

Justin Gaethje 1:22:18 ... there also something to be said about how I knew he was watching. If you go back to my other... Like, we always show sparring. We'll always show me hitting mitts. I didn't show myself hitting mitts one time this camp. I didn't show myself sparring one time this camp.

Joe Rogan 1:22:30 Purposely.

Justin Gaethje 1:22:31 Purposely.

Joe Rogan 1:22:31 'Cause we were switching up the game plan big time.

Justin Gaethje 1:22:33 'Cause he knew-

Joe Rogan 1:22:33 Like, the tight punches-

Justin Gaethje 1:22:34 So he, he had-

Joe Rogan 1:22:34 ... high hands

Justin Gaethje 1:22:34 ... no, he had, he had expectations, but they w- none of them were based in reality, and I controlled that.

Joe Rogan 1:22:42 That's awesome.

Justin Gaethje 1:22:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:43 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:22:43 And then, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:22:44 So smart

Justin Gaethje 1:22:44 ... when I did make the, when I did make the an, um, comment about his wife, you know, it was in a, um, in an interview like this where we're just fucking around, and I said it in jest. I didn't... Yeah, I, it was 100% true. I was like, "He's so fucking annoying. I couldn't imagine being in the same room with him," you know? With his pompous attitude, you know? And you just trying to, like, hang out with the guy, but he's, like, constantly stealing all the thunder, and it's irrational. And it's like, I would leave him, too. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:23:18 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:23:19 [laughs] I mean, that's my part. Like, that's why I broke up with my girlfriends is 'cause they were somewhat like that.

Joe Rogan 1:23:24 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:23:24 I mean... And so I, I didn't mean it in a mean way. Like, I, I would never dig at somebody, and I would never make fun of someone's personal experience, but that was, like, hon- that was just my honest take.

Joe Rogan 1:23:36 You are the honest guy I've ever-

Justin Gaethje 1:23:37 And I was joking, but, but it was true.

Joe Rogan 1:23:40 You just say what you feel.

Justin Gaethje 1:23:41 I said so many true things to him. I said the... So many. I told him that he's gonna go to the second round, go to the third round, you're gonna be fucked because you're not gonna be able to pull yourself out of this. You know, with the way that you're thinking, there's no possible way you can have these expectations, face adversity, and then come out in a positive way. There's no way it can happen. You're gon- you could dig deep, and you could be even more of a narcissist and it might work, but you, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna walk yourself into a situation that is gonna fucking be detrimental to you. And this is detrimental to his psyche, and this is 90% mental.

Joe Rogan 1:24:18 Well-

Justin Gaethje 1:24:19 And so again, I wanna see him g- I, I, I hope good things for him

Joe Rogan 1:24:21 ... we'll see how he adjusts to the loss. But, you know, the s-

Justin Gaethje 1:24:25 We'll see how honest he will be with himself. That's-

Joe Rogan 1:24:26 The strategy has to change.

Justin Gaethje 1:24:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:24:28 The... You, you can't just hit the gas like that. And there- we've seen that with boxers. We've seen that with all kinds of fighters. They just think they can just hit the gas.

Justin Gaethje 1:24:37 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:24:37 Well, obviously you had to make your own adjustments.

Justin Gaethje 1:24:39 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:24:40 You know how he overcame the, the Max fight?

Justin Gaethje 1:24:42 How?

Trevor Wittman 1:24:42 He adjusted. [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:24:44 The...

Joe Rogan 1:24:46 Sorry.

Trevor Wittman 1:24:47 Ricky, do you guys know this song?

Justin Gaethje 1:24:48 Classic.

Joe Rogan 1:24:48 Didn't you play golf every day, every year? That's how you-

Justin Gaethje 1:24:50 Classic six months straight.

Joe Rogan 1:24:51 Wow.

Justin Gaethje 1:24:52 Every day.

Trevor Wittman 1:24:52 Every day, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:24:53 Wow.

Trevor Wittman 1:24:53 This guy got really good.

Joe Rogan 1:24:55 Damn, dude.

Justin Gaethje 1:24:55 Obviously.

Joe Rogan 1:24:55 Yeah, DC was raving about it. He's like, "I've never seen anything like it." He goes, "This guy's playing golf like he's been playing for years."

Trevor Wittman 1:25:01 That's crazy. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:25:02 It's really, really funny.

Trevor Wittman 1:25:04 It's good, everything he does.

Joe Rogan 1:25:05 It's, uh... Well, you know, that's the mindset that's coachable.

Justin Gaethje 1:25:08 Very, very competitive.

Joe Rogan 1:25:09 That's a coachable mindset. Competitive and also objective. You know? It's the same reason why you think you're not athletic.

Justin Gaethje 1:25:15 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:25:15 It's like you, you can, you can look at yourself-

Justin Gaethje 1:25:16 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:25:16 ... in a critical way and then see what adjustments you have to make, where a lot of people are delusional.

Justin Gaethje 1:25:21 Yeah. They-

Joe Rogan 1:25:22 And that delusional keeps you from getting good at everything in life.

Trevor Wittman 1:25:24 You delude what you perceive. Dude, you got it.

Justin Gaethje 1:25:27 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:25:27 Perspective is everything. Like, how are you seeing things? And you always gotta see it from the internal, not, not sp- not, not... Peaks and valleys. Like this right here, like, we come home, and even through the airport we're like, there's no celebration.

Justin Gaethje 1:25:38 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Wittman 1:25:38 Like, it is what it is.

Justin Gaethje 1:25:39 Right.

Trevor Wittman 1:25:39 I mean, afterwards, like, peace, peace.

Joe Rogan 1:25:40 Isn't that crazy? There's no celebration at the airport.

Trevor Wittman 1:25:42 And then, he, he, what we did, the-

Joe Rogan 1:25:43 The fuck? [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 1:25:43 ... someone was buying us drinks. Like, we got there, we got there a little bit early.

Joe Rogan 1:25:46 Should've been a fucking parade.

Trevor Wittman 1:25:48 No. It's, uh-

Justin Gaethje 1:25:49 I know, but I don't want that.

Trevor Wittman 1:25:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:50 I know. I know you don't

Justin Gaethje 1:25:52 I don't want to

Joe Rogan 1:25:53 You don't.

Justin Gaethje 1:25:53 I, but I-

Joe Rogan 1:25:53 Just like you say you still have gray hair

Justin Gaethje 1:25:55 ... but I, but I, but I have to do it because I do need to take advantage. Like, I am the champion. It's crazy. Still can't fathom it, but I am the champion and I need to, I need to be the champion-

Joe Rogan 1:26:05 But be it

Justin Gaethje 1:26:06 ... and l- and be the ch- enjoy being the champion for a little bit

Joe Rogan 1:26:09 And you need to look at yourself in the mirror and be... Like, there, there's times to sit back and have bliss where you're like, "Man, I freaking did it." Like, there's times-

Justin Gaethje 1:26:16 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:26:16 ... to really, really be-

Justin Gaethje 1:26:17 Well, to, I thought it w- I thought that would come natural

Joe Rogan 1:26:19 Doesn't mean you run down fucking yelling out different brands of mayonnaise with no motherfucking clothes on-

Justin Gaethje 1:26:22 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:26:22 ... and make bad decisions, and you're like, "What was that from? Oh, shit, dude, we did fucking three fifths of fucking vodka." Um, are you gonna continue fighting?

Justin Gaethje 1:26:33 Right now I'm planning on it.

Joe Rogan 1:26:34 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:26:34 Every-

Joe Rogan 1:26:34 'Cause you were talking about-

Justin Gaethje 1:26:35 Again, I know-

Joe Rogan 1:26:35 ... going out with that fight

Justin Gaethje 1:26:36 ... I don't have, again, there's not, there's not something natural in me that feels like it's over.

Joe Rogan 1:26:41 Mm.

Justin Gaethje 1:26:42 So that's all I can say.

Joe Rogan 1:26:43 Also, after a performance like that-

Justin Gaethje 1:26:46 Yeah, I mean, I'll obviously perform even better-

Joe Rogan 1:26:47 Either, either way though

Justin Gaethje 1:26:48 ... the best, the best-

Joe Rogan 1:26:48 Either way. Either way

Trevor Wittman 1:26:49 Also capitalize-

Joe Rogan 1:26:50 Yeah

Trevor Wittman 1:26:50 ... 'cause the financial rewards-

Joe Rogan 1:26:52 Financial rewards

Trevor Wittman 1:26:52 ... financially.

Justin Gaethje 1:26:52 Yeah, but I'm in a, I'm in a place where it's like I deserve to be compensated for what I have done.

Joe Rogan 1:26:59 100%.

Justin Gaethje 1:27:00 Not for what I'm going to do or I don't, I shouldn't have to fight next to be c- like, UFC 300, UFC 324, and now this. Those are the biggest stages that the UFC needed somebody to, to do something phenomenal, and they picked me every single time and, and I delivered. I wasn't the main event of UFC 300, but co-main event, still stole the show even though I lost. And so f- I think I, I need to be compensated for the, for what I've done. That's where I'm at.

Joe Rogan 1:27:30 So you're talking about-

Justin Gaethje 1:27:31 I talked about in the-

Joe Rogan 1:27:31 ... in the future for, like, a next fight?

Justin Gaethje 1:27:33 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:27:34 Yeah, renegotiate-

Justin Gaethje 1:27:35 No, no, not-

Joe Rogan 1:27:36 ... my friend

Justin Gaethje 1:27:36 ... no, no, no, I'm not talking about for the next fight. I'm talking about the UFC should make a company and give me equity in that company and, you know, so I can build passive income like that. Like, I'm not saying that's what, that's what they need to do.

Joe Rogan 1:27:49 Have you talked to them about something like that?

Justin Gaethje 1:27:50 No, no, I wou- I would... I've never asked. Luckily, I have a personal assistant now, so she asks for things for me, but I've never been the guy that asks for things. I wish, I wish people that were opposite of me that ask for things and get all kinds of things, I wish I was given those things without asking, because obviously people know that it's appreciated and I like it, but I'm not ever gonna... Like, I'm not taking this truck from fucking Armin. There's absolutely no way I would take a truck. He never shook my hand and-

Joe Rogan 1:28:16 Oh, this is Armin Tsaryukyan.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:18 We should explain that. So Armin Tsaryukyan, he, [laughs] he bet a million dollars on Justin-

Justin Gaethje 1:28:25 His friend

Joe Rogan 1:28:26 ... and won. He won, like, five three I believe.

Trevor Wittman 1:28:29 Five or five seven.

Joe Rogan 1:28:29 Five seven?

Trevor Wittman 1:28:30 That's what I heard.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:31 Five seven.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:31 So he say, say he's gonna buy me a truck.

Joe Rogan 1:28:33 Wow.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:33 But, I mean, I would never-

Joe Rogan 1:28:34 What kind of truck?

Justin Gaethje 1:28:35 Well, now that I just saw yours.

Joe Rogan 1:28:37 Get a Raptor.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:38 I have a Shelby.

Joe Rogan 1:28:39 Get a fucking Raptor.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:39 I have a Shelby Raptor 1/2.

Joe Rogan 1:28:40 Those are pretty dope. Those are dope.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:41 But I w- I think now that I've seen your truck, that will be my next truck.

Joe Rogan 1:28:45 Also, it has USA on the side.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:47 You see the wrap?

Justin Gaethje 1:28:48 No, I love it.

Joe Rogan 1:28:48 You don't see the wrap?

Trevor Wittman 1:28:48 So that's, that, you didn't do that wrap?

Joe Rogan 1:28:49 Uh-uh. Hennessey does that wrap.

Trevor Wittman 1:28:50 Dude, that is sweet, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:28:51 Hennessey's the shit.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:52 No, I want that truck.

Joe Rogan 1:28:53 Yeah. Oh, you need that truck.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:55 Tell Armin to buy you that fucking truck.

Justin Gaethje 1:28:56 No, I'm not taking the truck from him.

Joe Rogan 1:28:57 What the fuck? If I was Armin, I would force it down your throat. I would, I would deliver it to your house-

Justin Gaethje 1:29:01 No

Joe Rogan 1:29:01 ... and give you a hug.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:02 No way.

Joe Rogan 1:29:02 You won him $5,700,000.

Trevor Wittman 1:29:05 Dude, exactly.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:05 I don't have to ride around in a fucking truck that a dude bought for me every day. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:29:09 No, no, no.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:09 I just can't go there.

Joe Rogan 1:29:10 You won that truck. You won that truck.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:11 We didn't shake on it.

Joe Rogan 1:29:12 I don't give a fuck.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:12 He does not owe it to me.

Joe Rogan 1:29:14 I don't give a fuck. Take that goddamn truck.

Trevor Wittman 1:29:15 I'm right there with you, Joe.

Joe Rogan 1:29:16 Yeah. Take the truck, dude.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:18 No.

Joe Rogan 1:29:18 It's, first of all-

Trevor Wittman 1:29:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:29:19 ... it's cool.

Trevor Wittman 1:29:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:21 And he might also be your next opponent.

Trevor Wittman 1:29:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:24 I mean, that's possible.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:25 That's po- yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:25 That's the guy.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:26 He is-

Trevor Wittman 1:29:26 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:26 I mean, he's the guy

Justin Gaethje 1:29:27 ... he is definitely the guy that's up for.

Joe Rogan 1:29:28 That's the guy.

Trevor Wittman 1:29:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:29 I mean, if there's anybody else in the division, that, that is the guy. I mean, now that Islam is up at 170-

Trevor Wittman 1:29:34 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:29:34 ... who else is there? That's the guy.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:36 I agree.

Joe Rogan 1:29:37 Yeah. And what a division. I mean, holy shit. And now Charles is saying he wants to-

Justin Gaethje 1:29:42 It's been that

Joe Rogan 1:29:43 ... he wants to fight you, BMF.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:45 How long has this fucking division has been-

Joe Rogan 1:29:45 BMF and, and the Lightweight title on the line.

Trevor Wittman 1:29:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:48 That would be crazy. So there's fights available.

Justin Gaethje 1:29:51 Yes, there is.

Joe Rogan 1:29:52 Big, big. What do you, what are your thoughts? Like, when you're thinking about competing, who do you think it will be? You think it'll be Armin?

Justin Gaethje 1:29:59 No.

Joe Rogan 1:29:59 No?

Justin Gaethje 1:29:59 No, I, I, I can't say that I have a name.

Joe Rogan 1:30:03 Do you think Ilia's gonna try for a rematch?

Justin Gaethje 1:30:05 No, he doesn't get a rematch. He can try, but he doesn't get one.

Joe Rogan 1:30:08 Wow.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:09 He quit on the stool. He quit twice. I stopped him twice. What else do I have to fucking do? Plus, his next challenge can't be me.

Joe Rogan 1:30:17 No.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:17 He needs to fight Paddy or someone like that.

Joe Rogan 1:30:20 Is, does Paddy have a fight scheduled?

Justin Gaethje 1:30:22 Yeah, he's-

Joe Rogan 1:30:22 I think he's fighting, uh-

Justin Gaethje 1:30:23 Same, same, Dinei.

Trevor Wittman 1:30:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:24 Ooh, that's a tough fight.

Trevor Wittman 1:30:25 It is.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:26 Benoit is a beast.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:27 It's a tough game.

Joe Rogan 1:30:28 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:28 It's a fucking crazy game, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:30:29 It's a crazy game.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:30 Crazy game.

Joe Rogan 1:30:30 It's the craziest game. I mean, think-

Justin Gaethje 1:30:32 By far

Joe Rogan 1:30:33 ... think about where you were when you lost to Max, and then where you are now. Just, like, think of the highs and the lows.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:38 It wasn't that long ago either.

Joe Rogan 1:30:39 Was not that long ago.

Trevor Wittman 1:30:41 Now you got the, the, the, the BMF champ wanting to fight you.

Joe Rogan 1:30:45 Mm-hmm.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:45 I have every belt.

Trevor Wittman 1:30:46 Like...

Justin Gaethje 1:30:47 I have three, three belts, three real belts. Two interims, but those are fucking real belts.

Trevor Wittman 1:30:52 Mm-hmm.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:53 A real belt, the BMF belt, and then the UFC 250 belt.

Joe Rogan 1:30:57 Yeah, the UFC 250 belt is dope.

Justin Gaethje 1:30:58 No one has-

Trevor Wittman 1:30:58 That's so cool, dude

Joe Rogan 1:30:59 ... as fuck.

Trevor Wittman 1:30:59 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:30:59 There's only two of those out there.

Trevor Wittman 1:31:00 It's so heavy. It's-

Justin Gaethje 1:31:01 I mean, being, being a f-

Trevor Wittman 1:31:01 Like, getting that was heavy. That shit is freaking heavy

Justin Gaethje 1:31:02 ... being a fan of this sport, like, what, you wanna come in here and do things that are not easily attainable.

Joe Rogan 1:31:09 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:31:09 And I've done a few things that are impossible to obtain, attain. Nine bonuses in my first seven fights. 16 fights in the UFC, I have probably, what, like 12 main events?

Joe Rogan 1:31:21 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:31:21 10, at least 10 main events.

Joe Rogan 1:31:22 I'd say 17 bonuses in 16 fights.

Justin Gaethje 1:31:23 And to be put in the main event of a UFC fight is fucking huge. Like, you know, you go on the poster. Not many people get to experience that, and I've done it almost every single time. And so, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, I've done something unattainable.

Joe Rogan 1:31:38 It's gotta feel good.

Justin Gaethje 1:31:39 It feels great.

Joe Rogan 1:31:40 [laughs] It should.

Justin Gaethje 1:31:41 It feels great. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:31:42 It should. As a fan-

Justin Gaethje 1:31:43 It feels good

Joe Rogan 1:31:44 ... it's awesome to have guys like you out there

Justin Gaethje 1:31:45 ... as a fan, as a fan, it feels good.

Joe Rogan 1:31:47 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:31:47 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:31:47 As a fan of yourself.

Justin Gaethje 1:31:48 As a fan of the sport.

Joe Rogan 1:31:49 Yeah. As a fan of the sport, getting to see what you've done.

Justin Gaethje 1:31:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:53 What did you think about Ciryl Gane?

Justin Gaethje 1:31:54 We didn't do, so-

Trevor Wittman 1:31:55 We didn't get to see it

Joe Rogan 1:31:56 Didn't see it?

Trevor Wittman 1:31:56 We were seeing it in that-

Justin Gaethje 1:31:57 They, we were, we were in the locker room, like, "All right, you guys are gonna go to a different staging room as soon as Bruce Buffer starts announcing." So they took us into a room-

Joe Rogan 1:32:04 Mm

Justin Gaethje 1:32:04 ... with no screens. Uh, that's probably where the video of me shadow boxing with the flag.

Joe Rogan 1:32:09 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Wittman 1:32:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:09 You were, you were-

Justin Gaethje 1:32:10 That's where-

Joe Rogan 1:32:10 Yeah, some meeting room

Justin Gaethje 1:32:10 ... so we were in there, we were in there for, like, 30 minutes before I walked, and we could hear, you know, you-

Joe Rogan 1:32:16 A little bit

Justin Gaethje 1:32:16 ... you hear the, I heard the ding of the-

Joe Rogan 1:32:18 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:32:18 ... you know, the end of the round, the horn.

Joe Rogan 1:32:19 Mm-hmm.

Justin Gaethje 1:32:20 I was like, "Okay, was that round one?" Yes. And then you hear nothing. And then I didn't even hear the finish. Like, I didn't-

Joe Rogan 1:32:25 No

Justin Gaethje 1:32:25 ... hear the crowd roar or anything.

Trevor Wittman 1:32:27 No, you couldn't hear the crowd.

Justin Gaethje 1:32:27 And then I heard, "And still."

Trevor Wittman 1:32:31 Yep.

Justin Gaethje 1:32:32 Right?

Trevor Wittman 1:32:32 Yep.

Justin Gaethje 1:32:32 'Cause he was, he was-

Trevor Wittman 1:32:33 No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:32:34 No.

Trevor Wittman 1:32:34 They said, "And new," 'cause they were both gonna be new.

Justin Gaethje 1:32:36 I thought I heard them say, "Still."

Trevor Wittman 1:32:37 And, but then they said, "No siren."

Joe Rogan 1:32:38 We heard, "Gone."

Trevor Wittman 1:32:40 We heard, "Gone."

Justin Gaethje 1:32:40 Yeah, they heard, "Gone."

Joe Rogan 1:32:41 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:32:41 I was like, "Oh, fuck. He won." And then-

Joe Rogan 1:32:43 Bro, that guy moves like a cat.

Trevor Wittman 1:32:44 That's, it's crazy.

Justin Gaethje 1:32:45 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:32:45 He's, for a heavyweight, I love watching heavyweights that can move. Like, the, you remember the Mike Tyson era. Just watching, I was, I, yeah, I love Mike, watching Mike Tyson, and just watching all the guys he fought. Heavyweight boxing was so good at that time.

Joe Rogan 1:32:57 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Wittman 1:32:57 People used to jump rope.

Justin Gaethje 1:32:58 Oh, yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:32:58 Now it's like, like, it, I'm not gonna say that, that all, uh, heavyweights are, are, are lazy, but, you know, my knees are bad. I'm a big person. Like, those guys can move, and Ciryl Gane is one of those guys.

Joe Rogan 1:33:08 But he's the most-

Trevor Wittman 1:33:09 He's so fast, and-

Joe Rogan 1:33:10 But the thing about him is he started out-

Trevor Wittman 1:33:12 ... dynamic

Joe Rogan 1:33:12 ... as a basketball player.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:14 Did he? I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 1:33:14 So think about basketball.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:15 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:33:15 It's all these plyometrics.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:16 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:33:16 You're constantly changing direction-

Trevor Wittman 1:33:18 Yep

Joe Rogan 1:33:18 ... and moving and jumping.

Justin Gaethje 1:33:19 Yeah, agi- agility.

Joe Rogan 1:33:20 Yes, it's all agility, and that translates so brilliantly-

Trevor Wittman 1:33:23 Absolutely

Joe Rogan 1:33:23 ... to his striking style because you got a guy who's 248 pounds who moves like a middleweight.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:28 Totally.

Joe Rogan 1:33:28 Or moves like bl- even lighter than that.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:33:30 I mean, he really moves like a welterweight almost. He's fast.

Justin Gaethje 1:33:33 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:33:33 And just very agile. And when you notice it is, like, 'cause you know how good Pereira is, and Pereira getting lit up on his feet like that, and then drop with a jab.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:42 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:33:42 It's like, woo.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:43 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:33:44 Perfect timing.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:44 And it's heavyweights. Like, those are big dudes. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:33:46 Yeah

Trevor Wittman 1:33:46 ... it, like, obviously Pereira's put on some weight, but it's frame size.

Joe Rogan 1:33:51 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:51 It's, you know, and it, it, Pereira's got a big frame, but it's-

Joe Rogan 1:33:55 There's levels

Trevor Wittman 1:33:55 ... your, your body's been that weight-

Joe Rogan 1:33:57 Yeah

Trevor Wittman 1:33:57 ... for a long period of time. Like, it's again, that consistency.

Joe Rogan 1:33:59 Right.

Trevor Wittman 1:33:59 It's a, it's a, it's MMA guy going into boxing. You're, yeah, they're shorter rounds, but you're hitting sprints every round. Like, it's a different... Like, there's, there's, you have to do it for a p- period of time to be able to adjust to that. That's a different-

Joe Rogan 1:34:10 Right

Trevor Wittman 1:34:10 ... it's, everything that you do, you have to slowly go into those positions. You can't just jump into it.

Joe Rogan 1:34:15 And when you think about how big he was at 205, it maybe would've even been better for him to not really put on much weight.

Trevor Wittman 1:34:22 I agree 100%. Again-

Joe Rogan 1:34:24 'Cause it's not like Ciryl Gane's a grappler

Trevor Wittman 1:34:26 ... and you gotta be fast.

Joe Rogan 1:34:27 Yeah, you gotta be fast.

Justin Gaethje 1:34:28 Yeah, you-

Trevor Wittman 1:34:28 Like, your speed's a factor

Joe Rogan 1:34:29 ... it's a giant factor.

Trevor Wittman 1:34:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34:30 And he's got insane power.

Trevor Wittman 1:34:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34:32 I mean, his power-

Trevor Wittman 1:34:33 He does

Joe Rogan 1:34:33 ... has always been heavyweight level power.

Trevor Wittman 1:34:34 He'll carry that with him, absolutely. He's not gonna lose his power.

Joe Rogan 1:34:35 'Cause he was so big. He was 251, and I was thinking, man, now it's like even though you have more power, you're also moving around with extra weight on your body.

Trevor Wittman 1:34:46 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:34:46 Like, you're, you're weighed down more by gravity.

Trevor Wittman 1:34:50 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:34:50 I mean, Gane looked so light and so loose. He's just, like, that style for a heavyweight, light on the toes like that, is so unusual.

Trevor Wittman 1:34:58 And not allowing Pereira to set his feet.

Joe Rogan 1:35:01 No, never.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:01 Like, that's very smart.

Joe Rogan 1:35:03 And even, like, feigning takedowns.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:05 That's nice.

Joe Rogan 1:35:05 It's not like he committed to those.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:06 That was nice.

Joe Rogan 1:35:06 But he's got him thinking about it. Look how he drops him with the fucking jab.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:08 Brought him into it.

Joe Rogan 1:35:09 Now, here's the question, because one of the things that Pereira is saying is a lot of, there's a l- illegal shot. A lot of the shots were illegal into the back of the head.

Justin Gaethje 1:35:17 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:35:17 But a lot of them were to the side of the head

Justin Gaethje 1:35:19 ... those, those are close.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:20 They're close 'cause it, and then they're also moving.

Joe Rogan 1:35:21 And the first one-

Justin Gaethje 1:35:22 When, when they-

Trevor Wittman 1:35:23 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:35:23 ... when, when they explain it to you, it's... Can I, Trevor?

Joe Rogan 1:35:26 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:26 It's a two-inch-

Justin Gaethje 1:35:27 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:35:28 ... line-

Justin Gaethje 1:35:28 Two-inch line, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:35:28 ... down, like a mohawk

Justin Gaethje 1:35:30 ... this, this whole, this whole apron right here. But it's, like, he, this is legal, this is legal.

Joe Rogan 1:35:35 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:35:36 This is legal. This is illegal. Legal, illegal.

Joe Rogan 1:35:38 I mean-

Trevor Wittman 1:35:39 And, and the movement

Joe Rogan 1:35:39 ... a couple of those shots definitely landed illegally, but there's also movement.

Justin Gaethje 1:35:42 No, I mean, the hammer fist, hammer fist for sure.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:44 That first one.

Joe Rogan 1:35:44 Those two-

Trevor Wittman 1:35:44 Do you see him drop his head down to the hips?

Joe Rogan 1:35:46 Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:47 So, so you're moving, you, you know.

Justin Gaethje 1:35:48 So those, that's legal, that's il- illegal.

Joe Rogan 1:35:49 Those are legal.

Trevor Wittman 1:35:50 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:35:51 Illegal.

Joe Rogan 1:35:51 There's a couple il- illegal ones.

Justin Gaethje 1:35:52 There's probably three or four.

Joe Rogan 1:35:54 Right, but it, it's also movement and chaos. It's not like he's trying-

Justin Gaethje 1:35:57 Yeah, he's not trying to-

Joe Rogan 1:35:58 ... to deliberately-

Justin Gaethje 1:35:59 That's like poking someone in the eye on purpose.

Joe Rogan 1:36:01 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:36:01 Like, if I was that good, I would touch their chin.

Joe Rogan 1:36:03 S- right. Right.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:04 How was the fight stopped? [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:36:04 That's a lot smaller target.

Joe Rogan 1:36:06 Exactly.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:06 Was the fight stopped there on the ground?

Joe Rogan 1:36:08 No. No, it kept going.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:09 Okay, so that's-

Joe Rogan 1:36:10 This is, this is actually the finish of the fight right here.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:11 Okay, if that was a finish-

Joe Rogan 1:36:12 He caught him with a big elbow right here and rocked him. I mean, Pereira was in real trouble.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:17 I mean, it was, he got fucked up.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:19 And Ciryl Gane did a fantastic job. He really put it on him.

Justin Gaethje 1:36:23 Should you ever stop a championship fight on the feet?

Joe Rogan 1:36:26 This is it right here. That was it right there.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:29 Yeah, I would've.

Joe Rogan 1:36:30 At that point-

Trevor Wittman 1:36:30 That looked like good stoppage

Joe Rogan 1:36:31 ... yeah. That, that was good stoppage.

Justin Gaethje 1:36:32 I'm not saying it wasn't. I haven't watched the fight, so.

Joe Rogan 1:36:33 Here, here's the stoppage right here. You can see it.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:35 Yeah, I haven't either, and I'm just watching this. Yeah, that's, like, he fell with his hands at his hips.

Joe Rogan 1:36:39 I mean, it was just cumulative. It was so many blows.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:42 Maybe he could have taken one or two more after that for sure, but Pereira's pissed off at Herb Dean, and he's saying Herb Dean should never referee again because he allowed those shots to the back of the head. I'm like-

Trevor Wittman 1:36:53 I mean, it, you're in the moment. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:36:54 Yeah

Trevor Wittman 1:36:54 ... the fight, but that's natural for a fighter to do. Like, like say that afterwards.

Joe Rogan 1:36:58 To say that afterwards.

Trevor Wittman 1:36:58 Well, if the situation, you wanna br- first off, you gotta bring awareness to it so they're not, you know, they're... You have to always be aware of, hey, I coulda did better here.

Joe Rogan 1:37:06 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:37:06 'Cause that's how we all grow.

Joe Rogan 1:37:07 Mm-hmm.

Trevor Wittman 1:37:07 So we need to do, need to talk about it. But from what I just watched there, and I haven't watched the whole fight, was the fight competitive at all?

Joe Rogan 1:37:12 Yes.

Trevor Wittman 1:37:13 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:37:13 The first round was very competitive.

Trevor Wittman 1:37:14 Okay, so that would change-

Joe Rogan 1:37:15 Yeah

Trevor Wittman 1:37:15 ... the little thing. But from what I just watched right there at the end, that was, uh, that looked like a good finish to me.

Joe Rogan 1:37:20 No, I-

Justin Gaethje 1:37:20 The first-

Joe Rogan 1:37:20 ... the ref, the refs have such a tough job.

Trevor Wittman 1:37:22 Yeah, they do.

Justin Gaethje 1:37:22 I've been, I'm notorious for being-

Trevor Wittman 1:37:24 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:37:24 ... really hard on these refs because, I mean, it's, they, you expect them to be, you w- you need them to be perfect. Their, their main job is to protect you. Uh, when I fought M- Michael Chandler, I'm still... And again, I only speak about it now because I've never had a retraction from the referee. Whenever he poked me in the eye, and then he didn't get in between us, and he let him hit me with a huge shot, and then he doesn't give me my time To rest. Not rest, to recover. And there was only five seconds left in the round, so it turned out that I got a break anyways. But he goes in there, he says, "Are you good?" I said, "No, I'm not good. He just poked me in the fucking eye." And he says, "Okay, but are you good?" And so then it's like, can I still fight? So then I said, "Yeah, I'm good." And he said, "Okay, go."

Joe Rogan 1:38:18 Who, what referee was this?

Justin Gaethje 1:38:19 Uh-

Trevor Wittman 1:38:19 The guy with the braid that he puts in his thing.

Joe Rogan 1:38:21 Oh, Mike Beltran.

Justin Gaethje 1:38:22 Yeah, Mike Beltran.

Joe Rogan 1:38:23 Yeah. Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:38:23 And so I was very upset that he let Michael Chandler land that, that shot, and I, I know why. He was so scared of the fucking heat we were throwing that he didn't wanna jump in there and get in the middle of it. But his job is to protect me, and he failed. He failed so bad right there. And so, like, after the fact, I was like, "I need you to acknowledge this so that you do not ever let that happen to another athlete in there, because you fucked up so bad." And, you know, he's trying to justify it, and it's like, what the fuck are you doing? How can you justify this?

Joe Rogan 1:38:55 Mm-hmm.

Justin Gaethje 1:38:56 And so that, for me, that, that, that pisses me off. And then the, the decision not to give me my time. Like w- I need an explanation.

Joe Rogan 1:39:05 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:39:05 You know? And s- 'cause I need to know that you are gonna learn from this experience. And for right now, I still believe that he doesn't think he did anything wrong, and so I'm still upset about that.

Joe Rogan 1:39:15 Well, once you say s- to someone-

Justin Gaethje 1:39:16 And 'cause we're petty.

Joe Rogan 1:39:17 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:39:17 We're petty, you know? Like-

Joe Rogan 1:39:18 Well, you should be in that situation. Because when you say to someone, "You got poked in the eye, are you good?" And you're like, "Y- yeah, I'm good, but I got poked in the fucking eye," and then you're supposed to say, "You have five minutes."

Justin Gaethje 1:39:28 One or two seconds.

Joe Rogan 1:39:29 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:39:29 One or two seconds. "But are you good?" I said, "Well, yeah, I'm good."

Joe Rogan 1:39:32 No, you're supposed to, you're sup- no, it's not-

Justin Gaethje 1:39:33 He says, "Okay, go."

Joe Rogan 1:39:33 "Are you good" is not the right question. You have five minutes.

Justin Gaethje 1:39:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:39:38 Are you ready to fight? Can you see?

Justin Gaethje 1:39:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:40 Do you need to bring in a doctor?

Justin Gaethje 1:39:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:39:41 There's a b- a series of questions, but the, "You have five minutes" is very important. For a fighter-

Justin Gaethje 1:39:47 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:39:47 ... getting poked in the eye, you have five minutes to recover.

Justin Gaethje 1:39:50 Yeah, I didn't feel like-

Joe Rogan 1:39:50 'Cause-

Justin Gaethje 1:39:51 I, I didn't know. I didn't know at the point. I was, I feel pressure in my face right now. Like, I don't, this feels foreign.

Joe Rogan 1:39:56 You're not gonna know for a couple seconds.

Justin Gaethje 1:39:57 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:39:58 And you're gonna, you're gonna blink a little bit, move around a little bit. "All right. I'm good." And that's when you're... It's supposed to be very clear.

Justin Gaethje 1:40:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:40:05 That's when you're ready to reengage.

Justin Gaethje 1:40:07 Well, and that's what I'm saying. That's the mistake he has to learn from, 'cause it was such a... And after the, the round ends, I walk over to him, I'm like, "Dude, get your fucking head out of your ass. What the fuck are you doing?" He said, "Go to your stool." I was like, "No, what the fuck are you doing? Like, your job is to protect me. You just let me get hit with a huge fucking shot. What is going on?" And he's like, "Go to your stool. Go to your stool." And I sit down, and then boom, never thought about it again, but still pissed off about that one.

Joe Rogan 1:40:32 You should be. I mean, that's, uh, that makes sense. I mean, that's a mistake.

Justin Gaethje 1:40:35 Same with, um, who's the ref that, against Khabib?

Joe Rogan 1:40:40 I, I-

Justin Gaethje 1:40:40 After the fight, he corners me in the hallway, and he's like, "I, you know, you, I know you-

Joe Rogan 1:40:45 I forgot about that

Justin Gaethje 1:40:45 ... I know you would never, never tap." I was like, "I tapped three times." He's like, "No, you would never tap." I'm like, I'm like, "Dude, from the horse's mouth, I'm telling you, I tapped." And he still was like, "Nah, nah, you wouldn't tap." And I was like, "What the fuck? How, how can we get through this?"

Joe Rogan 1:41:04 So that was-

Justin Gaethje 1:41:04 Like, I tapped three times.

Joe Rogan 1:41:05 You tapped-

Justin Gaethje 1:41:05 I went to sleep

Joe Rogan 1:41:05 ... and you went to sleep. I've seen that.

Justin Gaethje 1:41:07 Yeah, I tapped three times.

Trevor Wittman 1:41:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:08 100%, you tapped.

Trevor Wittman 1:41:09 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:41:09 100%.

Trevor Wittman 1:41:10 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:41:10 And then he's like, "No, you would, you know, I know that you, with your, the way that you compete, you would-"

Joe Rogan 1:41:14 Who, who was the, who, who was the referee?

Trevor Wittman 1:41:15 Dude, what's that guy's name? It's that guy-

Justin Gaethje 1:41:16 I hate to throw, I don't even wanna throw-

Trevor Wittman 1:41:18 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:41:18 ... Herzog, I don't even wanna throw him-

Trevor Wittman 1:41:19 Oh

Justin Gaethje 1:41:19 ... under the bus, you know, because it's like his intention-

Joe Rogan 1:41:22 It's a hard job

Justin Gaethje 1:41:22 ... his intentions were good for me.

Joe Rogan 1:41:24 Hard job, right.

Justin Gaethje 1:41:24 You know, he believed I was-

Joe Rogan 1:41:26 He gave you a chance

Justin Gaethje 1:41:27 ... gave me a chance, but like-

Joe Rogan 1:41:28 Right

Justin Gaethje 1:41:28 ... I fucking tapped, man.

Joe Rogan 1:41:30 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:41:30 Like, I did.

Joe Rogan 1:41:30 And the fight should've been stopped.

Justin Gaethje 1:41:31 And I went to sleep because of it. And luckily there's no detrimental, like, chronic, you know, long-lasting problems because of getting choked out. So I mean, like there's-

Joe Rogan 1:41:42 Not like getting knocked out

Justin Gaethje 1:41:42 ... there's no repercussions. Yeah, there was no concussion.

Joe Rogan 1:41:44 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:41:44 There's no TBI. Like, it really is not detrimental at all, as long as you don't hold it too long and I die. As long as I wake up, I'm good.

Joe Rogan 1:41:50 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:41:51 And so I was like, okay, like, the repercussions aren't as severe, and so, like, whatever, I'll just let this go. But ultimately he did- I mean, I was tell- even when I told him, he didn't believe me.

Trevor Wittman 1:42:03 That was the first thing you said when you jumped up. You went over to him, and then you guys had the conversation afterwards. But you went over to him saying, "Dude, what the fuck? I tapped."

Justin Gaethje 1:42:10 [laughs] Dude, fuck.

Trevor Wittman 1:42:11 Then he's like, "No, you didn't." And then, then we seen him later, but that was the first thing.

Justin Gaethje 1:42:14 No, he didn't. I was like, "Dude, I tapped three times. I tapped three fucking times."

Joe Rogan 1:42:18 Yeah, it was pretty obvious.

Justin Gaethje 1:42:20 Like, and then-

Joe Rogan 1:42:20 People make mistakes, and they don't see things too

Justin Gaethje 1:42:21 ... and everyone was like, "Oh, you said, you know, you're some kind of fucking, you think you're some kind of Superman. Why would you tap?" It's like, when your life is ending, you know, you're a fool if you don't understand that. Like, I knew I was dying.

Joe Rogan 1:42:34 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:42:34 And that's just where I was. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:42:35 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:42:35 That's the position.

Joe Rogan 1:42:36 So that's how crazy you are to everybody. He's, their eyes are like, "No, dude, like, I know you better than you do. You'd never tap." Like-

Justin Gaethje 1:42:41 "Duh"

Joe Rogan 1:42:42 ... you gotta fight like that.

Justin Gaethje 1:42:43 That's what I mean.

Joe Rogan 1:42:44 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:42:44 People think... The best-

Joe Rogan 1:42:46 That's how he perceived it

Justin Gaethje 1:42:46 ... the best thing up to this moment is people, people don't give me credit for my intellectual abilities. And I've also played into that, and I've also understood how big of an asset it is for people to approach me like that, you know, thinking that I'm just some animal that doesn't think or feel or whatever, whatever people think, or think I'm retarded.

Joe Rogan 1:43:10 Well, I think what it is, is when you are such an animal, people think you can't be smart.

Justin Gaethje 1:43:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:15 Because a smart person would be aware of the consequences and wouldn't have the courage to fight the way you fight.

Justin Gaethje 1:43:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:20 That's all it is. And they w- and people who don't have that kind of courage, they like to dismiss people-

Justin Gaethje 1:43:25 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:43:25 ... that fight like savages-

Justin Gaethje 1:43:26 Yeah, savages, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:43:26 ... because they go, "Well, savages can't be smart."

Justin Gaethje 1:43:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:29 That's not right.

Justin Gaethje 1:43:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:30 That's not correct. People, it's like you see a really hot woman, you go, "Oh, she gotta be a retard."

Justin Gaethje 1:43:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:35 Like, no, some of them are really fucking smart.

Justin Gaethje 1:43:38 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:43:38 And also hot, you know? [laughs] Like, the world is confusing.

Justin Gaethje 1:43:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:41 And you can't categorize people and put them into things, little, little, uh, you know, little fucking boxes just to make you feel better.

Justin Gaethje 1:43:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:49 That's all it is, you know? And you're ju-

Justin Gaethje 1:43:52 And the, the thing is, I never signed up... Like, when we were walking out to the, the press conference, there's like f- 12, 15,000 people out there. I look at the guy, I was like, "Dude, I never, ever signed up to be a public speaker. What the fuck are we doing here?" Like, I never wanted to be in this p- where I talk in front of this many people. Like, that's not-

Joe Rogan 1:44:11 Right [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:44:11 ... what I prepared myself for ever.

Joe Rogan 1:44:13 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:44:13 And now I'm in this situation where I have to, you know, every single word I get, I say before these fights is analyzed by the world. Like the whole, you know, my father is my dad. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:44:22 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:44:24 ... sometimes I get tongue-tied.

Joe Rogan 1:44:26 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:44:26 Sometimes I misspeak.

Joe Rogan 1:44:27 That is what every all do.

Trevor Wittman 1:44:28 I do, too, and I talk for a living.

Joe Rogan 1:44:29 Dude. Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:44:29 That's what I mean. And, and-

Joe Rogan 1:44:30 It's fucking normal

Justin Gaethje 1:44:31 ... but, but nobody, if people unders- if they had to listen to themselves, they would understand-

Joe Rogan 1:44:35 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:44:35 ... that they also make mistakes. And so it's like, fuck, man. Like, I can't be perfect. I'm sorry. I, I really w-

Joe Rogan 1:44:41 Hey, it's-

Justin Gaethje 1:44:42 I didn't mean my dad was my father, even though, you know, it fucking makes sense and it's true.

Joe Rogan 1:44:47 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 1:44:48 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:44:49 Listen, you're, you're dealing with a bunch of people that have to write stories.

Justin Gaethje 1:44:52 Yeah, they have to.

Joe Rogan 1:44:53 It's not-

Trevor Wittman 1:44:53 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:44:53 I know. I do know that

Joe Rogan 1:44:53 ... it's not about writing a story because something's interesting. They have to make a story, no matter what it is. Their o- their wa- their job is to create content.

Justin Gaethje 1:45:02 And I guess-

Joe Rogan 1:45:02 And when you, your job is to create content, you make content out of nothing.

Justin Gaethje 1:45:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:06 And it's not usually, it's usually not good.

Justin Gaethje 1:45:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:09 And that's what they're doing.

Justin Gaethje 1:45:10 If I could've-

Joe Rogan 1:45:10 They're making big deals out of nothing

Justin Gaethje 1:45:11 ... if I could've been mentally coached, it would've been in that aspect.

Joe Rogan 1:45:15 Public speaking?

Justin Gaethje 1:45:16 Just like...

Joe Rogan 1:45:18 I think you speak very well.

Justin Gaethje 1:45:19 No, no, it's like, uh, I, there's just, ev- I guess there's no lesson to learn. Like, you just have to do it. It's through experience.

Trevor Wittman 1:45:25 Yeah. It's like fighting. You just do it a bunch of times and you get comfortable-

Justin Gaethje 1:45:27 True

Trevor Wittman 1:45:27 ... with it or you're naturally talented, like Conor, you know?

Justin Gaethje 1:45:30 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:45:30 Who the fuck is that guy?

Joe Rogan 1:45:32 Yeah, yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:45:32 No, smart guy.

Joe Rogan 1:45:32 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:45:33 He's great at that.

Joe Rogan 1:45:34 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:45:34 Like, he's fantastic at that shit. I mean, that's where he shines.

Joe Rogan 1:45:37 You ain't lying. You are like Tom Petty. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. You are Petty. Dude, who cares what people think?

Justin Gaethje 1:45:44 No, I know, but-

Trevor Wittman 1:45:44 I think he speaks great, right?

Justin Gaethje 1:45:46 I like, you know, I like to see what people are saying about my, our interview and the, you know, 'cause I wanna see-

Trevor Wittman 1:45:52 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:45:52 ... the perception. I want to-

Trevor Wittman 1:45:54 Just keep inspiring.

Joe Rogan 1:45:54 Yeah, but the thing is, you're asking for the perceptions from people that you would probably never fucking talk to in real life-

Trevor Wittman 1:46:01 100%

Joe Rogan 1:46:01 ... 'cause they're dumb and annoying.

Justin Gaethje 1:46:03 What? You don't wanna know their shit. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:04 And those are the people that are most likely gonna comment.

Trevor Wittman 1:46:06 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:46:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:07 The people that are most likely gonna... You think Michael Jordan's out there leaving YouTube comments?

Trevor Wittman 1:46:10 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:46:10 No. Right? It's not people-

Trevor Wittman 1:46:11 So true

Joe Rogan 1:46:11 ... that have their fucking shit together and have big goals-

Trevor Wittman 1:46:13 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:46:13 100%

Joe Rogan 1:46:14 ... people who are, uh, really dialed in and really fucking disciplined and-

Justin Gaethje 1:46:18 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:46:18 ... the people whose opinions you'd respect, they're not leaving comments.

Justin Gaethje 1:46:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:22 They're certainly not leaving shitty comments.

Trevor Wittman 1:46:24 Brian, you nailed that. You nailed that. That's-

Joe Rogan 1:46:25 Just the reality.

Trevor Wittman 1:46:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:26 And I'm not hating on these people, I'm just saying, like, I would've been one of them. If you, if somebody gave me a fucking YouTube account when I was 17-

Justin Gaethje 1:46:33 Dude

Joe Rogan 1:46:33 ... I'd be posting the most horrible shit about everybody.

Trevor Wittman 1:46:36 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:46:37 Right? Everybody would.

Trevor Wittman 1:46:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:38 You're, you're a kid.

Trevor Wittman 1:46:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:39 You're, or you're a dumbass and you don't have your life together yet, but that's the type... You can't listen to them and take that as gospel-

Justin Gaethje 1:46:44 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:46:44 ... 'cause it's just not.

Trevor Wittman 1:46:46 Just, just seeing him walk through the airport and just everybody's perception when they see you and meet you is so great, dude. Like, it's, like, people, they like, like-

Joe Rogan 1:46:55 Bro, the haters-

Trevor Wittman 1:46:55 ... viewers. You, if-

Joe Rogan 1:46:57 If the haters met you, they're like, "Bro, I'm a big fan."

Trevor Wittman 1:46:59 Yeah, but still-

Justin Gaethje 1:46:59 No, no, yeah

Trevor Wittman 1:46:59 ... but it's, but one of those things is, like, the inspiration on people, like, th- everybody comes up and they're like, "You're our favorite fighter." Like, to have the brand that you're the, the, your favorite fighter's favorite fighter, like, that is unique.

Joe Rogan 1:47:11 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:47:11 That is, like, such a cool thing. Like, you-

Justin Gaethje 1:47:13 Very

Trevor Wittman 1:47:13 ... you just keep inspiring and-

Justin Gaethje 1:47:15 Very proud of that

Trevor Wittman 1:47:15 ... be you.

Joe Rogan 1:47:16 You should be.

Justin Gaethje 1:47:18 Very proud of it.

Joe Rogan 1:47:18 Should be so proud.

Trevor Wittman 1:47:18 You should be.

Joe Rogan 1:47:19 Yeah. So, um, I asked you after the fight if you're gonna fight again, and you said you promised your mom you weren't gonna make a decision, and so it just settled in. I mean, we're, today we're here, it's Friday. The fight was just Sunday, so it's five-

Justin Gaethje 1:47:32 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:47:32 ... days ago. So now you're just like, "Fuck you..." How are you not after that? I mean, you're the fucking champ. It would be great to go out like that. It'd be the, an amazing cap, but also great to have at least one more.

Justin Gaethje 1:47:46 Yeah. We'll see.

Trevor Wittman 1:47:49 People like to watch chaos.

Justin Gaethje 1:47:51 We will see.

Trevor Wittman 1:47:51 It's the highest level of controlled chaos.

Joe Rogan 1:47:53 Of course.

Trevor Wittman 1:47:54 The, you know, it'll never be-

Justin Gaethje 1:47:56 We'll see

Trevor Wittman 1:47:56 ... that chaos again 'cause it'll never be like-

Justin Gaethje 1:47:58 It's hard to understand how dan-

Trevor Wittman 1:47:59 ... fighter jet flyovers and-

Justin Gaethje 1:48:00 It's hard to understand-

Joe Rogan 1:48:01 Right. Ah

Justin Gaethje 1:48:01 ... how dangerous this game is if you don't do it.

Trevor Wittman 1:48:03 Right.

Justin Gaethje 1:48:04 And so-

Joe Rogan 1:48:05 Is it impossible?

Justin Gaethje 1:48:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:07 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:48:07 So that'll be a huge, that's a huge factor. There's a lot of, there's a lot of variables that I have to contemplate when it comes to that decision.

Joe Rogan 1:48:17 Do you have a timeline in your head?

Justin Gaethje 1:48:19 I do know, I, so you can't remember a time I fought two times in six months in the UFC. I fought two times this year already in less than six months, and so I'm gonna take the rest of the year. I need my body to heal. It, I w- I mean, I have... What's the fucking diagnosis? I have a severe bone edema in the tip of my fibula that happened on Christmas, and I have been dealing with that since Christmas Day.

Joe Rogan 1:48:49 So a bone bre- bleed, like a bruised bone?

Justin Gaethje 1:48:52 Bone bruise, yeah. It's in the bone marrow of the tip of my fibula.

Joe Rogan 1:48:54 Oh.

Justin Gaethje 1:48:55 Tip of my tibia that clacked against my femur, and it caused a hu- a, a deep, deep bruise, and I cannot get it to heal because I went, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:49:03 Mm

Justin Gaethje 1:49:03 ... I was going through training camp. It really hurt after the Paddy fight.

Trevor Wittman 1:49:07 When are you leaving? When, when are you leaving today?

Justin Gaethje 1:49:10 We fly out at, like, 6:30.

Joe Rogan 1:49:13 It's 3:00. I, I wanna see if I can get you into Waste Well. Let me text Brigham and see if they can jab some fucking stem cells in there before you leave.

Justin Gaethje 1:49:20 I mean, I've go- I, I've gone to Vegas. I've got stem cells multiple times.

Joe Rogan 1:49:24 Waste Well's-

Justin Gaethje 1:49:24 I got PRP. PRP put me-

Joe Rogan 1:49:25 ... a pretty special place

Justin Gaethje 1:49:26 ... PRP put me on crutches. It was crazy. And then I did a cortisone shot, um, the Friday before I left.

Joe Rogan 1:49:33 Wow.

Justin Gaethje 1:49:33 And that, that helped a lot.

Joe Rogan 1:49:35 Well, not training is really what it needs, right?

Justin Gaethje 1:49:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:49:38 And have you been doing any hyperbaric cham- chamber stuff?

Justin Gaethje 1:49:41 No.

Joe Rogan 1:49:41 That's huge-

Justin Gaethje 1:49:42 I got, like-

Joe Rogan 1:49:43 ... for recovery and for-

Justin Gaethje 1:49:43 You have no idea how-

Joe Rogan 1:49:44 ... from injuries

Justin Gaethje 1:49:45 ... against my process you guys would be. I mean, I think I got two, I probably had two massages this camp.

Joe Rogan 1:49:53 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 1:49:55 [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:49:56 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:49:56 That's amazing.

Justin Gaethje 1:49:57 That's, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:49:57 Well, it's really funny. If you look at the difference between- Ilia Topuria has a, uh, YouTube channel as well, where it's fantastic, really goes into depth. But they're using, like, all this high-tech neural stimulation headgear-

Justin Gaethje 1:50:12 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:50:12 ... and he's doing all these different things, and it's all like-

Justin Gaethje 1:50:15 Well, you see the video? It's got him doing that, and then me taking a 420 dab-

Joe Rogan 1:50:19 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:50:19 ... off a big ass [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:50:20 Exactly.

Trevor Wittman 1:50:21 Did you see our video, where he had the, the, the dog chocker on his forehead?

Justin Gaethje 1:50:26 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 1:50:26 Every time he got straight with his legs and got flat, I hit the button. He's, "Er," and he'd bend his legs again. [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:50:31 No, we, uh-

Trevor Wittman 1:50:32 We got, we got some high level technology, too

Justin Gaethje 1:50:33 ... cover, covering our, covering our eyes and threw balls at each other-

Trevor Wittman 1:50:35 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:50:36 ... trying to tap into those intuitive abilities.

Trevor Wittman 1:50:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50:38 Yeah, right. Yeah, with your eyes closed.

Justin Gaethje 1:50:39 But I mean, dude, like-

Joe Rogan 1:50:41 You're funny. [laughs]

Justin Gaethje 1:50:43 I come from the fucking dirt, you know? My parents fucked up. They didn't put a golf club in my hand at four years old. They threw me in the dirt, and, you know, I c- became comfortable with the uncomfortable. And-

Joe Rogan 1:50:54 That's a giant factor, though. Being comfortable with being uncomfortable-

Trevor Wittman 1:50:59 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:50:59 ... is a huge asset.

Trevor Wittman 1:51:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:01 It's such a-

Trevor Wittman 1:51:01 It is. It is

Joe Rogan 1:51:02 ... um-

Trevor Wittman 1:51:02 Yes

Joe Rogan 1:51:02 ... with everything in life. With everything in life.

Justin Gaethje 1:51:04 I think wrestling is definitely, definitely has... is the biggest variable when it comes to my success. I mean, the mental, the mental side of it, like, nobody can... The, it's very similar to fighting, in the fact that nobody can help you. You know, it is... Again, y- all the blame is on you, all the success goes to you, and you can never use somebody else as an excuse. Any team setting, I played football, I played baseball, soccer, swim team. Swim team's a little different, but, you know, there's always a justification for why you failed or why you lost when it comes to those. And you could al- always point to somewhere else, or at least a piece. Even if it's 1 or 2% somebody else's fault, then it, then you can justify it-

Joe Rogan 1:51:52 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:51:52 ... even the loss.

Joe Rogan 1:51:53 Yes.

Justin Gaethje 1:51:53 In, in wrestling, that's never the case.

Joe Rogan 1:51:55 Not only that, it's a combat sport that's acceptable in high school. Like, it's a combat sport that-

Justin Gaethje 1:52:00 The only one

Joe Rogan 1:52:00 ... you take in junior high school, you take in high school. And kids learn. Like, there's, there's guys out there that are different.

Justin Gaethje 1:52:06 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:52:06 They're working harder than you, they're more aggressive than you. They're, they want it more than you.

Justin Gaethje 1:52:11 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:52:11 They put in more time than you. And that's a ler- that's a lesson that's very valuable-

Justin Gaethje 1:52:16 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:52:16 ... when a k- 'cause kids get delusional about what their abilities are, how special they are, who they are. When you get fucking flat-lined by some dude who just fucking picks you up and slams you on your back and pins you, and you're like... And he can do it any time he wants, and this is the reality of training with this guy. Like, over and over and over again. You're like, "Oh, great." He lateral drops you in front of the whole class. "Oh, great."

Trevor Wittman 1:52:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:52:37 Like, this is, this is reality. Now, you're either gonna get better-

Trevor Wittman 1:52:41 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:52:41 ... or this is gonna keep happening to you-

Trevor Wittman 1:52:43 Yep

Joe Rogan 1:52:43 ... over and over and over again. And the mental toughness that comes-

Justin Gaethje 1:52:46 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:52:46 ... out of kids that grind it out in wrestling and learn how to wrestle uncomfortable, learn how to cut weight at an early age. All that shit's terrible for you, but the mental aspect of it is fucking undeniable. Think about how many great wrestlers have become great MMA champions.

Trevor Wittman 1:53:02 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:53:02 It's the most important foundation.

Trevor Wittman 1:53:04 And great businesspeople. Like, they, they... I watched a s- a study a long time ago. They said that the boxing and wrestling, uh, uh, created the best employees because accountability.

Joe Rogan 1:53:13 Yes.

Trevor Wittman 1:53:13 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:53:14 Yes.

Trevor Wittman 1:53:14 And again, the cutting the weight. Like, you're responsible. Like, that's the... This is what I love about Justin, is what makes it so nice to train him is [laughs] high-level people. Like, I've, I've had the luck to be able to train some high-level guys lately, and I don't have to deal with any shit. Like, we, you know, and it's-

Joe Rogan 1:53:30 Right

Trevor Wittman 1:53:30 ... if I hold myself accountable, then there's, the, we don't have to have these deep conversations or get our feelings hurt, that we're just true to it. His accountability for everything is just... There's, there's nothing like it. And I, I credit that to his parents. His parents are just such amazing people.

Joe Rogan 1:53:44 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:53:44 And the way that they had raised him to hold the... You know, 'cause he screwed up a lot as a kid. I, I told him, if we were hanging out when we were younger, we'd have a lot of trouble. 'Cause he remind me of myself, super hyper, so like, like making super bad decisions. But getting punished, getting grounded, getting not, not g- being able to go out late at night. Like, strict parents. And that, being able to understand that there is rules in life and you have to be accountable. If you screw up, you gotta deal with the punishment.

Joe Rogan 1:54:07 Yeah.

Trevor Wittman 1:54:07 And that is... It comes from your parents, and it's-

Justin Gaethje 1:54:09 I agree

Trevor Wittman 1:54:09 ... one of your best traits.

Justin Gaethje 1:54:09 I think my parents being such good people... Um, so my mindset has always... Since I was a kid, I have looked up. So the reason I take comments online and I read them, I've always looked up and given every single person I've ever interacted with the benefit of the doubt of being good. And whether it's what they're saying, what they're doing, their actions, everybody's been my role model. I've never, never looked at myself as a role model. I've always looked at whether, no matter what, I, if e- even strangers, like I trust that they're gonna, that they're good. And that's where I start my, that's where I start everywhere from. And, um, so reading comments online, like I, I truly take into account what, what I'm reading, you know? And I don't know why, 'cause I know it doesn't matter a lot of the times. A lot of these probably fucking 13, 14-year-old kids, but I, in my mind, they're 50-year-old, you know, men with experience. And I just try to use as much-

Trevor Wittman 1:55:14 Mm

Justin Gaethje 1:55:14 ... and as much of the readily available information, comments, words, action as I can from a place of like I feel like a child, in a sense, when it comes to, like, interacting with people. And I don't know, I don't know why that's how I take it or that's how I do it, but it makes everything, you know, a little bit better, and I'm not as disappointed as much. 'Cause, like, once I learn that they're not that or they're not good and they can't help me, then I don't be like, "Oh, that's a bad person." I'm just like, "Okay, I'm not gonna have that experience again." And just move on.

Joe Rogan 1:55:48 Well, that's a good perspective. It sounds like you use it, then. And that's... Lis- everyone's different, and if you can handle it and you don't get mentally ill from reading comments-

Justin Gaethje 1:55:56 Dude

Joe Rogan 1:55:56 ... that's a rare, you're a rare person.

Trevor Wittman 1:55:58 We had many conversations-

Justin Gaethje 1:55:59 Well, I mean, I was human-

Trevor Wittman 1:56:00 ... and the way that, it never affected him

Justin Gaethje 1:56:00 ... human first. That's what my- I went to school for human service. I love to help people. You have no idea how much joy it brings me to assist people, to make people's life better, to lift someone's spirit. I mean, those, that is what makes me feel alive. And that comes through my faith, um, and through my parents. You know, my parents are such good people. They deserve so much more than, than most parents because of their actions and their example that they showed for me. And yeah, I'm just so grateful to be the person that I am because, you know, it makes life easier. Life is easy. Life is so easy when you're not concerned about what people think, when you're not worried about things that you can't control.

Joe Rogan 1:56:45 Well, it's also easy if you're a good person. It's easier.

Justin Gaethje 1:56:47 Well, Joe-

Joe Rogan 1:56:47 It's easier

Justin Gaethje 1:56:47 ... but I couldn't be a good person without the example-

Joe Rogan 1:56:50 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 1:56:50 ... of my parents. You have no idea how good and naive my parents are. And when I say naive, it's in such a good way, because they haven't done the bad things that most of us have done. And I, and I failed them. And the last time I ever did drugs, I woke up in an ambulance, and I'm pretty sure I died. And I was like, "I will never fucking do that again. My parents do not deserve that." And that was probably 2016.

Joe Rogan 1:57:21 Wow.

Justin Gaethje 1:57:21 And I was like, "I will never touch that again, ever. My parents do not deserve that." And that was, that's why I'm here.

Joe Rogan 1:57:29 Well, good for you, dude. That's awesome. And it's great that you have such an awesome relationship with your parents. And it really does seem-

Justin Gaethje 1:57:36 Yeah, it-

Joe Rogan 1:57:37 ... like that attitude that you have is very freeing-

Justin Gaethje 1:57:39 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:57:39 ... in a lot of ways.

Justin Gaethje 1:57:40 It is. It really is.

Joe Rogan 1:57:42 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:57:42 Golf, weed.

Joe Rogan 1:57:45 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:46 Trevor, let's talk about those gloves. What the fuck do we have to do to get your gloves into the UFC? It doesn't make any sense that we're using inferior gloves.

Justin Gaethje 1:57:54 Wait, w- I want, obviously-

Joe Rogan 1:57:57 Go ahead

Justin Gaethje 1:57:57 ... I wanna talk about this, but the gloves I fought in this week were different.

Joe Rogan 1:58:01 They are?

Justin Gaethje 1:58:02 They felt, they, it was a-

Joe Rogan 1:58:03 They weren't different

Justin Gaethje 1:58:04 ... so different

Joe Rogan 1:58:04 ... the leather was different

Justin Gaethje 1:58:04 ... it was, it was the same, same glove. The leather was different. It was a little bit thicker I think, and so it was softer. And so every time I've ever fought, I've had the most excruciating pain in between my hands right here, and I didn't feel that at all this fight.

Joe Rogan 1:58:19 Mm.

Justin Gaethje 1:58:19 So that means they were thicker.

Joe Rogan 1:58:20 So that means they were thicker. So it's like if you have s- like a, a thinner material going through, it's gonna cut through the skin- Right

Justin Gaethje 1:58:24 ... a little easier. So this was thicker.

Joe Rogan 1:58:25 Or tighter.

Justin Gaethje 1:58:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58:26 Tighter material.

Justin Gaethje 1:58:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58:27 This was looser.

Justin Gaethje 1:58:28 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:58:28 Because it was thicker. It was weird. So it was better.

Justin Gaethje 1:58:32 Better.

Joe Rogan 1:58:32 Better for that feeling that all fighters get in their hands.

Justin Gaethje 1:58:34 Better for comfortability. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58:36 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 1:58:36 Like, you guys have no idea how uncomfortable we are when we walk in there.

Joe Rogan 1:58:38 You're always, like, pulling on the glove to pull it back. It's like getting a hand wrap too tight and you get those little things between you. It's like-

Justin Gaethje 1:58:43 Yeah, you're constantly pulling on the tongue here to try to get-

Joe Rogan 1:58:44 So you make a fist-

Justin Gaethje 1:58:45 ... try to get the pressure

Joe Rogan 1:58:45 ... and it, it squeezes harder.

Justin Gaethje 1:58:46 Mm-hmm. But he, this guy's a genius. He can fucking make anything.

Trevor Wittman 1:58:50 Uh, so Hunter reached out to me three weeks ago, four weeks ago, and said he wanted to ignite the conversation again. So we'll see where that goes. But, uh, you know, uh, from that first position that we were in, uh, a lot of things happened. Uh, and a great thing I always told you it was gonna be timing. Timing's everything. And, uh, they did the right thing and tried to make what we had spoke about. You know, we had an NDA and, uh, uh, we had a five-year and they moved it to a two-year. Took a lot of great notes, and I'm very grateful to be a part of those 'cause they did go out there and use a lot of the ideas that I had. Uh, but they just couldn't do it, uh, uh, to the level that I could do it. And, uh, I, I thought it was super cool that they were trying 'cause, uh, it was a, it's a problem that they don't really see and understand. So I think they're, they're in the right mindset and, you know, them helping the athletes, I thought was a great, great thing to do. Uh, but during that time when I was gonna talk to, I actually brought the gloves and it was when you were fighting on 300. Uh, we were out there and I, I had a new patent that I had been working on so we could go opposite direction if they wanna own it. It's a separate patent from the patent that I had that goes in all, all of our products, the internal strapping. This was a new patent, uh, still with internal strapping, but a, uh, a more dialed in for a fight glove. And then we had those two options, and then when we got there, uh, Ali had told me that, uh, they're releasing a new glove. And, uh, so we have, you know, uh, two versions now, which is super cool. And, uh, yeah, I think it'll go great.

Justin Gaethje 2:00:14 Here's, here's the conversation though. Like, what are you trying to fix?

Joe Rogan 2:00:18 Eye pokes.

Justin Gaethje 2:00:19 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:00:20 Eye pokes have been-

Justin Gaethje 2:00:20 That is not possible.

Joe Rogan 2:00:22 You don't think it's possible to make-

Justin Gaethje 2:00:23 No

Joe Rogan 2:00:23 ... less eye pokes?

Trevor Wittman 2:00:24 You can make less. You can make less.

Justin Gaethje 2:00:25 You can make less-

Trevor Wittman 2:00:26 Yeah

Justin Gaethje 2:00:26 ... but you'll never stop eye pokes.

Joe Rogan 2:00:27 You're never gonna stop.

Justin Gaethje 2:00:28 Well-

Joe Rogan 2:00:28 Well, of course you're not gonna stop because the fingers are already out.

Trevor Wittman 2:00:30 You're already gonna have gloves.

Justin Gaethje 2:00:30 The issue is the athlete. The issue is the comfortability of the athlete and the performance of the athlete. That is where y- your, um, ambition has to lie when it comes to making the glove better. Because the thing, the gloves we're fighting in now are fucking terrible. You have no id- they, uh, it's hard to make a fist. You have to use your entire muscle of your arm to make a fist. And so by the time we get to the fight, this is already, um-

Joe Rogan 2:01:00 Your forearm's blown out

Justin Gaethje 2:01:00 ... exhausted.

Joe Rogan 2:01:01 Yep.

Justin Gaethje 2:01:01 Exhausted. And then the pressure in between your fingers is, like, something you can't replicate.

Joe Rogan 2:01:08 Let me ask you this. Do you think it's possible to make something that's like a mitten? Something that covers over the tips of the fingers. You would have fucking 80% less eye pokes.

Trevor Wittman 2:01:18 I do think you could do that in time. I don't think that's, that... Change is hard for everybody, Joe.

Joe Rogan 2:01:23 But why?

Trevor Wittman 2:01:23 And that's a huge change for grapplers and things like that. It, but, but-

Joe Rogan 2:01:26 But it'll stick

Trevor Wittman 2:01:27 ... so you're a grappler. So you're a grappler.

Joe Rogan 2:01:29 Right.

Trevor Wittman 2:01:29 Most people are gonna say, "Well, that's gonna affect this or my certain lock," or, uh, until they try it.

Joe Rogan 2:01:34 I think it would-

Trevor Wittman 2:01:34 But again, it's, it's, you have to test it

Joe Rogan 2:01:36 ... I think it would, it would enhance it.

Trevor Wittman 2:01:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:37 The only th- the, the problem would be, like, rear naked chokes, like, getting the hand behind the head.

Trevor Wittman 2:01:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:01:41 You have more thickness. Like, it's, regular gloves are a problem already, but is it more of a problem just to have the fingers covered with the regular glove? I think it's the same. It might actually-

Trevor Wittman 2:01:50 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 2:01:50 ... it might actually even slip in better.

Justin Gaethje 2:01:52 Well-

Joe Rogan 2:01:52 But the thing is, it's, like, covering the tips-

Trevor Wittman 2:01:55 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 2:01:55 ... with, like, a mit- like, those old school Everlast bag gloves.

Trevor Wittman 2:01:58 Mm-hmm.

Justin Gaethje 2:01:58 I just don't, I think it's a different sport now.

Joe Rogan 2:02:00 But why? You can still clinch. You can still do everything you do.

Trevor Wittman 2:02:02 That's, that's what I'm talking about, Joe, is-

Joe Rogan 2:02:03 You take guys to the ground.

Justin Gaethje 2:02:04 But you, like-

Joe Rogan 2:02:05 Everything's the same. You can still grapple

Justin Gaethje 2:02:06 ... this is telling me so much right now.

Joe Rogan 2:02:08 Yeah.

Justin Gaethje 2:02:08 Like, and if you take that away from me-

Joe Rogan 2:02:10 Touch

Justin Gaethje 2:02:10 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:11 Right.

Justin Gaethje 2:02:11 Like, that is a, that's a huge factor in when it comes to intuitive abilities.

Joe Rogan 2:02:15 Okay. Like, explain that to me. Like, what are you feeling with your fingertips?

Trevor Wittman 2:02:19 ... that you think would be missing?

Justin Gaethje 2:02:20 Well, it's not the fingertips. When you, it's my hand, like, he moves away, he, he moves any direction, like, I can make that read. Now he's farther, now he's there.

Trevor Wittman 2:02:29 Right.

Justin Gaethje 2:02:30 And I think if you're gonna take touch away from us, that would deter our intuitive abilities.

Trevor Wittman 2:02:36 Hmm. I wonder. I wonder how much-

Justin Gaethje 2:02:39 In a way

Trevor Wittman 2:02:39 ... it would-

Justin Gaethje 2:02:39 But I also think-

Trevor Wittman 2:02:40 ... if you start practicing with them

Justin Gaethje 2:02:40 ... that you have to understand where, as a fighter, for me, it's like when I am relaxed, when I'm relaxed, and if my hand can be in this position when I'm relaxed, then I'm okay. Then, then, then there's not gonna be as many eye pokes. But when I relax and it goes like this-

Trevor Wittman 2:02:56 Right

Justin Gaethje 2:02:57 ... like, and now I have to-

Trevor Wittman 2:02:58 Because the gloves force your hand open

Justin Gaethje 2:02:59 ... now I have to do this, I'm naturally... You're never gonna take the human reaction and instinct away to protect yourself, and the instinct to protect yourself is no.

Trevor Wittman 2:03:09 Right.

Justin Gaethje 2:03:09 Like, that is the instinct.

Trevor Wittman 2:03:10 Right.

Justin Gaethje 2:03:11 It's natural, it's intuitive, and it has to be that because you're trying to get your, your chin tucked behind your shoulders so that you don't get hit. But the uncomfortability and, like, the strenuous-

Trevor Wittman 2:03:24 Mm

Justin Gaethje 2:03:25 ... effort it takes to make a fist is fucking stupid.

Trevor Wittman 2:03:29 Yeah. It's stupid, and this is the difference between your gloves and the current UFC gloves.

Justin Gaethje 2:03:32 My f-

Trevor Wittman 2:03:33 My s- Your gloves are made for your hand ... my gloves are curved. My, my gloves are, are one of those things that it-

Justin Gaethje 2:03:36 It's, it promotes a natural hand position

Trevor Wittman 2:03:38 ... a n- natural position, a better grip. Yes. A better fist position where I'm not, when I squeeze my fist and I have the wrap on, it doesn't pull my hand up like this. And when you see guys touch gloves, they're usually like this. Uh-huh. Not like this. Right. And it's that lining the bones up for, you know. Again, they, they said that the last gloves were causing less knockouts. Our gloves [laughs] are gonna cause more knockouts 'cause of better hand position, better grip strength on being able to have holds. Like, if I'm holding someone's forearm- A better protection for your hands- Absolutely ... and less broken hands. And internal strapping. Like, that- Yeah ... is a huge thing. Like, my goal at a certain point with that, to have where you can't have hand wraps on. Like, if you have a glove that's actually protecting your hand- Mm ... but you have the gloves on, that now it's equal 100%. Because if you got one person that adds more f- uh, more padding- Mm ... or less padding- Right ... or double layers tape. Like, there's many different things that you can do. And that to me, it's like, if, if I, i- if one fighter has tape wrapping their hands and then the other one has house wrapping the hands, they're wrapping differently. Mm. Which one's better for breaks? Which one's better for punching? Like- Right ... like, so having that, that's would be really cool. And that's, that's the difference with, like, like our gloves. Yeah. I'll show you at, at 100%.

Justin Gaethje 2:04:43 I've never broke my hand when he's ever taped my hands. Like, his tape job is... I, I can't wait to show it off to the commission every single time. I'm like, "Look at that."

Trevor Wittman 2:04:55 Mm.

Justin Gaethje 2:04:55 "Tell me you've seen a better one than that tonight." And every time they're like, "I don't think so."

Trevor Wittman 2:05:00 You got gloves? Of course you do.

Justin Gaethje 2:05:03 [laughs]

Trevor Wittman 2:05:04 Of course you did. They're my favorite by far. And the, ladies and gentlemen at home, if you're just listening, the difference between Trevor's gloves and everybody else's gloves- Left and right hand ... one of the big differences is that you can see, if you're looking at it on that, see how they're curved, folks?

Justin Gaethje 2:05:18 It looks like a hand.

Trevor Wittman 2:05:18 The regular gloves from the UFC are not. They're straight, just like this. So these gloves promote a natural punching position. Look, without even putting them on, they're already in that position. And then when you put them on, they're damn near perfect. The padding is amazing. They're fantastic to hit the bag with. They're just fucking awesome. And they, and more importantly, look how, what they promote.

Justin Gaethje 2:05:40 Relaxed.

Trevor Wittman 2:05:40 So my hand is totally dead relaxed, and it promotes a closed fist position. The cool part too is this. This is what I was talking about with the wraps. So this is a, he's doing the internal strapping right now. So this strap is coming from over here, so that's gonna pull this in. Mm-hmm. As you notice, we got pad on the side, so there's no f- like the, all the other gloves, the padding Right. You know? Right, right. So we're coming down on a single knuckle. But again, this strap is gonna really seal you in. And then- Oh, yeah ... and then this one. So you- Oh, so these are better than the last ones- Yeah ... you brought here. Oh, this is fucking fantastic. Like I said, I've been dialing in, finding the right product. Oh my God, you don't even need hand wraps. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, you had told me before that when you hit the bag with his gloves, his bag gloves, you haven't even worn hand wraps.

Justin Gaethje 2:06:18 I haven't used, I haven't wrapped my hands since 2015.

Trevor Wittman 2:06:20 Pfeiffer doesn't fight with hand wraps on, which is crazy. Yeah, some guys don't. Yeah. And it can get to the point- He likes it ... if we have the right protection- This is it ... it's awesome. That's it. This is so superior- Yeah ... to the UFC gloves. They're sweet. I mean, the fact that this isn't being used- Yeah ... by the UFC right now is fucking criminal. We're gonna get it done. I hope so. And, and you know what? I've been trying so hard. I stepped away from, like, the business part. I'm the visionary now. Nice. So I got right people that know how to make deals, so- Good ... it's, it's right. And the- Good ... UFC's gonna be happy because-

Justin Gaethje 2:06:46 We were ready.

Trevor Wittman 2:06:47 Yeah. Dude, I'm in there like, "Do- do-," you know? I don't do that.

Justin Gaethje 2:06:50 We were, that, that was me versus Khabib.

Trevor Wittman 2:06:52 I take full responsibility- Oh, I believe it ... that I didn't know that you could do deals all these different ways. You know, when they'd say what they wanted to do, I was like, "Yeah, that's not how this works." Yeah. Bro, these feel so good. Yep. It's so better. It's so better. It's just- It's better ... much better. It's like you should use the best one. When you put it on, you're like, "Oh, I wanna hit something." Well, this is one of the things- Yeah ... that I love about you, is that you're so fucking creative with stuff. Yeah. And you're, you're constantly trying to refine things-

Justin Gaethje 2:07:13 No, I mean, every single piece-

Trevor Wittman 2:07:14 ... to make them better

Justin Gaethje 2:07:14 ... of equipment I have trained with for the last-

Trevor Wittman 2:07:16 Dude, these, so we see so many in-

Justin Gaethje 2:07:19 11, 12-

Trevor Wittman 2:07:19 So this is your training bag? Your training gloves?

Justin Gaethje 2:07:21 11, 12. Yeah, that's, that's what I train in. Yep.

Trevor Wittman 2:07:22 Nice. Oh, that's great.

Justin Gaethje 2:07:23 I hit pads in that. Never-

Trevor Wittman 2:07:25 Oh, yeah

Justin Gaethje 2:07:25 ... I've never wore hand