JRE MMA Show #184 with Aljamain Sterling

Joe Rogan 0:00 [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan podcast, check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] I remember, uh-

Speaker 0:13 What's with the gold teeth? What's going on?

Joe Rogan 0:15 Theo Von-

Speaker 0:15 Give me a smile. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 0:17 Oh, you got it top and bottom, man. What did you do?

Speaker 0:20 It's amazing. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 0:21 [laughs]

Speaker 0:22 I've always wanted to have money so I could get one of these when I was a kid growing up. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 0:27 Now, is that one of the ones that you can take out or is it-

Speaker 0:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 0:29 ... okay, that's good.

Speaker 0:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:31 'Cause that's such a commitment, you know?

Speaker 0:34 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 0:34 One day you gotta go to the White House.

Speaker 0:37 [laughs] Right. [laughs] You got diamonds and gold in your teeth, that's crazy. And it might be a first time, you know?

Joe Rogan 0:43 How does it fit? It's like, like a retainer?

Speaker 0:45 Yeah, so they, they fit it, they mold it. Um, I got it done in, in, uh, Dallas actually. And, uh, they just fit it, mold it to your teeth, and then you could pop them in. It's-

Joe Rogan 0:54 Te-

Speaker 0:54 ... almost like wearing a retainer.

Joe Rogan 0:55 Texas loves grills.

Speaker 0:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:57 They love grills down there.

Speaker 0:58 We gotta get ours.

Joe Rogan 0:58 [laughs] We gotta get Paul Wal-

Speaker 0:59 You should

Joe Rogan 0:59 ... yeah, Paul Walser, he's gonna hook us up.

Speaker 1:01 [laughs] He's going, "Hey."

Joe Rogan 1:04 [laughs] Yeah, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1:06 I just, I remember-

Joe Rogan 1:07 [laughs]

Speaker 1:08 ... what, [laughs] what was the one episode with, uh, Theo, and, uh, you asked about the headphones and he was... He said something like, uh, "It's like sitting there with the, with the, with, with the condom and, uh, and she's just looking at you," or I forget exactly how the joke goes, but it was, it was funny. It's like one of Theo Von's greatest, um, moments where he says all these things. He was like, "When I f- when I feel like saying it, I just write it down." I don't know if you saw this clip, but it's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 1:34 I mean, I'm sure. I was there when it happened, but he says so many ridiculous things, I can't remember.

Speaker 1:38 It's just-

Joe Rogan 1:39 Here it goes. Oh, here, we'll play it here

Speaker 1:41 ... I didn't, I just see he put it on.

Joe Rogan 1:43 On. I feel like I'm alone here-

Speaker 1:46 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:46 ... in headphone land. [laughs] Yeah, it is weird, huh? Now you're back.

Speaker 1:49 It's like when you put a condom on [laughs] and then the other person's just still looking at their phone. You're like, "Oh, this is weird."

Joe Rogan 1:55 [laughs]

Speaker 1:56 And the person I mean is a woman too. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:58 [laughs] Christ, you gotta, you gotta tell everybody, huh?

Speaker 2:01 Well, I'm just saying, bro. [laughs] I'm just saying.

Joe Rogan 2:04 [laughs] There he is.

Speaker 2:05 Yeah. Yeah, that's why we said the, the headphones, that just, that just came to my head, like, immediately.

Joe Rogan 2:10 Yeah, I, sometimes I have them off, sometimes I have them on, but it's better to have them on. You, it locks you in.

Speaker 2:16 Locks you in, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17 Locks you in, you know?

Speaker 2:17 I feel that.

Joe Rogan 2:18 Did you watch the UFC this past weekend, the Apex?

Speaker 2:21 Um, I watched the main event and co-main.

Joe Rogan 2:25 Bro, the main event, Saulkild is legit.

Speaker 2:28 I wasn't too sure about him, but now [laughs] I'm very sure.

Joe Rogan 2:32 As a man who has one of the best back controls in the sport-

Speaker 2:35 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:36 ... you, you had to appreciate that back control.

Speaker 2:38 Oh, it was amazing, and he took him down-

Joe Rogan 2:39 Yeah

Speaker 2:39 ... which I was kind of surprised. I was like, "Why is he going for the takedown?"

Joe Rogan 2:41 Crazy.

Speaker 2:42 Proving a point.

Joe Rogan 2:43 Proving a point, because his standup is so sick too.

Speaker 2:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:46 That guy's so complete, man.

Speaker 2:48 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:48 To do that to Gamrot

Speaker 2:50 ... that's what I was gonna say.

Joe Rogan 2:50 Crazy.

Speaker 2:51 He's a sick grappler in his own right. I thought he was gonna get out that one, that one moment where he had the leg h- uh, hiked up.

Joe Rogan 2:57 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:57 He had the ankle, and all he had to do was swim inside, but he kept it too long, it allowed him to hit the ground, and he was able to readjust and, uh, lock in that, that figured four and it was over.

Joe Rogan 3:06 Well, when he reached over and grabbed the far arm and used that to hang onto the back-

Speaker 3:10 Yes

Joe Rogan 3:11 ... I'm like, that is slick.

Speaker 3:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 3:12 That was slick. He was, he was fucking slick, man. And just, just very high level. Everything was like, like an elevated level. I was, I had a very high opinion of him before the fight, but now I'm like, oh, this dude could do it. He, he could do it.

Speaker 3:28 He knows ball. He knows ball.

Joe Rogan 3:29 Yeah.

Speaker 3:29 I was, I was, I was really surprised with that. And the fact that it went so quick, all his fights have been in the first round.

Joe Rogan 3:34 And these scrambles, these scrambles from this position. Now, generally, in this position, it's so hard to keep back control. Like right here, grabbing the arm and this adjustment, bro, that's, that's really skillful.

Speaker 3:47 It's a seatbelt.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Yeah.

Speaker 3:49 Just the way he's able to adjust it. Gamrot's trying everything, but once he gets to that position, it's over. You- you're back, you're back in his, uh, backpack and-

Joe Rogan 3:58 He's got a lot going on, man. He's, first of all, real tall for the weight class.

Speaker 4:02 Huge.

Joe Rogan 4:02 I think he's over six feet tall. Long, excellent reach, excellent strike. The other thing that he did that was really slick, he pretended to get up off of his back so Gamrot explodes, and he exposes his neck right there. Watch that, back that up just a touch. Watch, look at the... This is so slick. Like, look, he's hanging on his back, they're struggling, and he said, "Let me just sit up," and he'll sit up, bam, right there.

Speaker 4:26 And then smashed it up.

Joe Rogan 4:27 That's so nasty.

Speaker 4:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 4:30 This kid-

Speaker 4:30 It's slick as fuck, man

Joe Rogan 4:31 ... sl- that's so slick. That's such a good sneaky move, 'cause the guy's like, "Oh, now is my time to..." You know, those moments where you feel like you can move.

Speaker 4:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Like, he got, he, he give you some space, like, "I'm gonna go," and then plop, eh.

Speaker 4:45 I'm, I'm, anytime I'm in training and someone has my back, I always try to make sure I'm always aware of the choke. Matt Serra always says, "Always protect the choke first," and that's the main thing I always try to focus on. Protect the choke first before you start doing anything else that's crazy.

Joe Rogan 4:58 Mm.

Speaker 4:58 'Cause at the end of the day, it just takes that little split second to get under the neck, and that could be the fight.

Joe Rogan 5:03 Yeah. It's like sometimes people just get, they, they, they get a little too urgent. You know, they get a little too, they just wanna make something happen without just being safe all the time. Always be safe.

Speaker 5:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:15 And that's, in, in Gamrot's situation right there, that was the moment. Because who knows? If he could have m- made it out of that position and survived all those choke attempts and got to the next round, who knows? You know?

Speaker 5:27 Who could have.

Joe Rogan 5:27 And if he got on top, who knows? And Saulkild, I mean, it, you presume he has great endurance. You presume, but we really don't know yet.

Speaker 5:35 We have no-

Joe Rogan 5:35 It's fucking-

Speaker 5:36 ... it's the wild unknown about him.

Joe Rogan 5:37 Yeah.

Speaker 5:38 That's why I'm just like, I don't know how good he actually is, but I can tell you what, first round, he's a motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 5:42 He's a motherfucker.

Speaker 5:43 That guy is good.

Joe Rogan 5:44 Well, it's, it's interesting, like, these guys that are, that have the unknowns. You know, like, some guys get really far. Like Tom Aspinall come, becomes heavyweight champion of the world, and it's kind of an unknown whether he can fight in the fourth and fifth rounds. Kind of crazy.

Speaker 5:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:59 Right? We just know he's a blitzer. We know he's big and fast, but we really rarely see him get out of the first round

Speaker 6:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 6:06 Kind of nuts

Speaker 6:07 It's, um, it's a gift and a curse

Joe Rogan 6:10 Right. That's a good way to put it

Speaker 6:11 Because you get both your paychecks. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 6:12 [laughs]

Speaker 6:12 You get done really, really early. [laughs] But then if you get into the, you know, you run into the wrong one and the fight starts to get tough, you don't know if you can actually push that envelope 'cause training's different.

Joe Rogan 6:22 Dude, that, that is the most bullshit part of the UFC. You get both your paychecks. Fuck off.

Speaker 6:28 Mm.

Joe Rogan 6:28 Fuck off with that. I hate it. That drives me nuts.

Speaker 6:31 I know the boss. We could talk to him.

Joe Rogan 6:33 He's not gonna listen.

Speaker 6:34 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 6:34 He would, uh, I've said this 100 times already

Speaker 6:37 We could talk to him

Joe Rogan 6:37 ... y- it should be you get paid what you get paid. It shouldn't be... First of all, if, if judges were perfect every time, maybe you could make an argument for that, but I still don't think you should make an argument for that because I think guys fight as hard as they can to win.

Speaker 6:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:52 There's no one who's fighting harder because you think you're gonna get a win bonus. You know, you're fighting as hard as you possibly can.

Speaker 6:58 Yeah

Joe Rogan 6:59 At, at the highest level, and so it's, you're not incentivizing people to fight harder. You're just m- you're, you're giving too much of their career, too much of their future, too much of their m- their actual, like, how they're gonna feed their family, to the whims of people that sometimes get it wrong.

Speaker 7:16 100%. I, I, I do remember one incident where I was, situation I should say, where I was going to fight harder, and that was UFC 300 against Calvin Kattar when Dana announced the bonuses were gonna be 300,000.

Joe Rogan 7:29 [laughs]

Speaker 7:29 And I got super pumped up, and everyone always points to this. They go, "You got so excited, and then you went there and you fought like that." I go, "Listen, it's, it takes two to tango. If he wants to sit there and hold me, there's not much I can do. I can't really just fight r-" I thought about it, I was like, "I'm gonna just go out there and just start swinging for the fences and take him down and maybe get a crazy finish," and it didn't go that way, but-

Joe Rogan 7:49 I tried

Speaker 7:49 ... well, I tried. I thought about it.

Joe Rogan 7:51 Guys cancel each other out, too.

Speaker 7:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:54 That's the thing, you know, when people want exciting fights. Everybody wants exciting fights, of course, of course. But there is a reality to skillful guys going after each other, and that sometimes they'll cancel each other out and make a boring fight.

Speaker 8:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:08 That shit happens.

Speaker 8:09 It, it really does. [sighs] There's, there's no rhyme or reason, either. Um-

Joe Rogan 8:14 Nope

Speaker 8:14 ... I mean, l- who was it? Um, like Francis Lewis... Francis Lewis. [laughs] Francis Ngannou and Derrick Lewis.

Joe Rogan 8:20 Derrick Lewis. Oh, my God. One of the worst fights of all time.

Speaker 8:23 But we all thought that was gonna be just a quick fight, someone's getting-

Joe Rogan 8:26 We thought it'd be madness, madness

Speaker 8:28 And-

Joe Rogan 8:28 Guaranteed madness. Two of the biggest knockout artists in the history of the heavyweight division

Speaker 8:32 And exact opposite.

Joe Rogan 8:33 Nothing. Nothing happened.

Speaker 8:35 But-

Joe Rogan 8:35 It was hell

Speaker 8:36 ... these fights happen. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 8:37 [laughs]

Speaker 8:38 And then the fans get on you about it. I'm like, "Listen, you go take a punch from that guy. That guy is gonna-"

Joe Rogan 8:42 Yeah

Speaker 8:42 ... "send my consciousness to a whole different universe."

Joe Rogan 8:44 Well, you had Francis coming off the loss to Stipe, and I think he was a little rattled mentally. And then you had Derrick, who realizes, like, he's looking for his one big shot, and he's not willing to wade in and get clipped. And so he's l- you know, waiting to play the role of the counter striker, and then no one does nothing.

Speaker 9:03 Yeah. Carlos Condit and Rose Namajunas.

Joe Rogan 9:07 Rose Namajunas. Worst fight in history. Arguably.

Speaker 9:10 It's, it's, I'm gonna-

Joe Rogan 9:10 I think it might be worse.

Speaker 9:11 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 9:12 'Cause I think that was five rounds. We went through five rounds of that shit.

Speaker 9:15 [laughs] It was five rounds.

Joe Rogan 9:16 That was worse than Derrick. Derrick Lewis and Francis Ngannou would've been the worst because of expectations, but it was only three rounds.

Speaker 9:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:23 This was five rounds of, "What the fuck is going on?"

Speaker 9:26 And I, I, it's not a knock on the fighters.

Joe Rogan 9:28 Of course not.

Speaker 9:28 Just so people know that.

Joe Rogan 9:28 They're two of the greatest fly- uh, flyweights, right? No.

Speaker 9:33 Yeah. I think strawweights

Joe Rogan 9:33 Strawweights.

Speaker 9:33 Strawweights, strawweights.

Joe Rogan 9:34 Strawweights. Two of the greatest strawweights of all time. I mean, Rose Namajunas, when she knocked out Zhang Weili with that fucking head kick, holy shit.

Speaker 9:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:40 When she n- when, when she, uh, starched Joanna, h- hit her with that left hook and took her out, like dude, R- Rose a beast, man. She's a beast. Uh, one of the absolute most exciting fighters, champions of all time. In those, those, those particular exchanges, like some of the fights that she's had, they've been amazing, amazing fights. But that just fight, that fight sucked.

Speaker 10:02 Yeah

Joe Rogan 10:02 For whatever reason.

Speaker 10:03 It happens.

Joe Rogan 10:04 Just happens sometimes.

Speaker 10:05 Can't explain it, but [laughs] sometimes-

Joe Rogan 10:07 Yeah

Speaker 10:07 ... you just feel something when you're in there, and you're just kinda like, "Well, I'm not gonna go." And they're like, "Well, I'm not gonna go if you're not gonna go." [laughs] Then it's just a staring contest.

Joe Rogan 10:15 Yeah, I don't know what was going on in that fight. It was very strange. But I also think there's a time when you've been in so many wars, you know, you've been, you've had so many wars that your, your willingness to exchange is different.

Speaker 10:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:29 Your, your, your drive to attack is different. It's not there anymore.

Speaker 10:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:34 You know? And some, especially people who fight in wars, and Rose has been in some wars.

Speaker 10:39 And that's why I fight the way I fight now so differently, because those wars that I had leading up to where I'm at, I mean, I had that barn burner with all these other guys on the way to the title, and I had to change it up.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Yeah, you gotta stay alive. [laughs]

Speaker 10:53 You gotta fight smart. I'm joking. [laughs] My fights are not barn burners like that.

Joe Rogan 10:57 No.

Speaker 10:57 But-

Joe Rogan 10:58 They're different. Your fights are, uh, the best ex- you have the best back control I think I've ever seen in this sport. There's, when you get on someone's back, I'm like, "Oh, shit, this is getting crazy."

Speaker 11:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:09 You know?

Speaker 11:10 I, I did wanna say I appreciate, 'cause I do hear the, the episodes where you guys talk about it, I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."

Joe Rogan 11:15 Dude, your back control's nuts

Speaker 11:16 ... I, I appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 11:16 The Sam Hagen fight is nuts. When you know how good Sam Hagen is, and you just got that back, and that was nighty night. It was so slick. You've done that to so many dudes, too, and you could see, you know, like o- obviously redemption for you was the second Petr Yan fight. That was redemption.

Speaker 11:33 Oh, it felt so good.

Joe Rogan 11:34 Cool. I remember you came in right afterwards and was like, "Everybody's gotta shut the fuck up now." [laughs]

Speaker 11:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 11:39 "They all gotta shut the fuck up."

Speaker 11:41 They got... It was a split decision. I go, "Shut up."

Joe Rogan 11:44 [laughs] Shut up.

Speaker 11:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Please. Yeah, you, you, you really showed everybody in that second fight. The first fight was just nonsense.

Speaker 11:52 Well-

Joe Rogan 11:52 The first fight w- just that kind of a, a move to hit someone when they're down on one knee like that, like what the fuck are you doing, man?

Speaker 12:00 That was a rough time.

Joe Rogan 12:01 Crazy. And then you, having already had a bulging disc in your neck, your neck was already fucked It's also kinda crazy that you could p- compete at the level that you compete at with a fake disc in your neck.

Speaker 12:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:14 Do you ever think about that thing?

Speaker 12:15 Oh, 100%. I still have, like, nerve damage in my tricep from it.

Joe Rogan 12:19 Really?

Speaker 12:19 Like, if I do, like, a Pilate or just a, um, plank, you'll see it just this side shaking.

Joe Rogan 12:25 Shaking?

Speaker 12:26 It's so bad.

Joe Rogan 12:26 Wow.

Speaker 12:27 Even to this day. It's a lot better than what it was before, but this is what people don't, um, understand, like some of these fighters, us, like, we go through a lot just to make it. And you're gonna hear the other side of it, "Well, no one told you to do it." It's not even about that. It's just, like, we're trying our best to chase something great, something that's crazy in, in the sense of the word, right? And, uh, you put your body through hell to get there. And, um, I just, I know there's great fans out there who appreciate that, and there's the other ones who are more casual and they don't really understand. But I wish they took the time out just to train, to do a week of training, and understand what we put our bodies through day in, at a high level against other high-level guys.

Joe Rogan 13:06 Listen, you need the casuals. You, you need everybody to buy tickets. It's all great.

Speaker 13:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:10 But the reality of the casuals, all you haters, you are doing yourself a disservice, too. You're saying ridiculous shit. You're acting like a fucking retard. What you really should do is do better in your own life-

Speaker 13:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 13:24 ... and you wouldn't be a hater. 'Cause almost all haters are losers, 100% of them, and the people they're hating on are doing way better than them.

Speaker 13:35 100%.

Joe Rogan 13:35 And there's legitimate criticism, but legitimate criticism can be handled respectfully. And the people that don't handle legi- legitimate, the people that don't dish out legitimate criticism respectfully, it's 'cause they haven't been smacked, right?

Speaker 13:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:50 Or they haven't been smacked by the guy they're talking shit about. [laughs]

Speaker 13:53 Yeah. Or they see him and then they change their tune real quick.

Joe Rogan 13:56 Of course.

Speaker 13:56 It's such a weird thing.

Joe Rogan 13:57 People are so crazy. They'll talk about literal professional fighters and call them pussies. [laughs]

Speaker 14:05 [laughs] I can show you-

Joe Rogan 14:06 It's so delusional

Speaker 14:07 ... I got a lot of DMs.

Joe Rogan 14:08 It's so delusional.

Speaker 14:09 One guy said, "I'll fold you in half," like recently, 'cause I, I don't-

Joe Rogan 14:12 Yeah, but they're like-

Speaker 14:12 ... really check those messages

Joe Rogan 14:13 ... just trying to fuck with your head. They don't even believe that.

Speaker 14:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:16 They're trying to get a rise out of Aljamain Sterling. They can get a rise out of a UFC champion. You know how, when they're 16 years old, jerking off, Cheetos all over their fingers.

Speaker 14:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:27 You know how exciting that must be to, to, to have direct contact with you?

Speaker 14:31 Yeah. That's why I try, I try not to engage as much as I used to. 'Cause before I would... I think we talked about it before, I would engage and go back and forth with it.

Joe Rogan 14:39 Don't do it.

Speaker 14:40 And, like, I kinda got away from it, but the old version of me would like to just say all kinds of crazy shit. But I'm, I'm, you know, a little bit more mature now.

Joe Rogan 14:48 There's no benefit in it, and it wastes energy. That's the problem. And then it also wastes your... You, you get distracted. You're like, "What did he say back? I can't wait to see what this motherfucker responded to. I'm gonna get him again." [laughs]

Speaker 14:57 I do check, I do check.

Joe Rogan 14:59 You saved a bunch of pictures of him from the Instagram. [laughs]

Speaker 15:02 Let me see your ass in person, in real life.

Joe Rogan 15:05 Yeah, before he deletes it, let me screenshot these.

Speaker 15:08 Yeah. Yeah, 'cause people are people, so I get it.

Joe Rogan 15:10 Yeah, people are people, man, and I would've done the fucking same thing. If I was 15 years old and somebody gave me an Instagram account and I could talk shit to whoever, I would talk shit to everybody. [laughs]

Speaker 15:21 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 15:22 Whoever it was.

Speaker 15:22 I'm trying to think if I was like that.

Joe Rogan 15:24 It's-

Speaker 15:24 I don't know if I was ever like that as a kid

Joe Rogan 15:25 It didn't exist when you were a kid. It do- the access didn't exist. If that access existed, I guarantee if you and your friends were like, "Bro, Drake's talking shit with me"-

Speaker 15:35 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 15:35 ... and you and Drake are going back and forth, you're like, "Fuck you, pussy." [laughs]

Speaker 15:38 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 15:39 Of course you would do it. Everybody would do it. I would do it, 100%.

Speaker 15:45 I guess it's just human nature.

Joe Rogan 15:46 It, 100%. But I think that when you get to the level that you're at, a literal world champion and a professional fighter of the highest caliber, that's, you do yourself a disservice. You do d- like, I love Str- Sean Strickland. He's crazy as fuck, but he gets in there with everybody all the time.

Speaker 16:06 I love it.

Joe Rogan 16:06 He g- he gets in there all day long talking shit with people. He gets in there, but it somehow or another doesn't distract him. I wouldn't give him the same advice. Something's fucked up about his brain that, like, for him to be in that kind of conflict all day, it doesn't seem to bother him at all.

Speaker 16:22 I think it fe- like, fuels him to, like, wanna keep going more, like driving. At a certain point-

Joe Rogan 16:27 Bro, Goggins plays a recording of all the shit that all of his haters have said to him while he runs.

Speaker 16:36 I wouldn't do that, but... [laughs]

Joe Rogan 16:37 But you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 16:38 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 16:39 Like, there's people that are wired different, and I think Sean is very, very much wired different in f- whatever, for whatever reason, you know?

Speaker 16:47 Yeah. I, sometimes I always… But I like it. I like the… He should have a segment that, like how Ray Longo has, like, the, the Ray Longo Minute, he should have, like, a str- a Strickland Minute-

Joe Rogan 16:56 Well, I was telling him-

Speaker 16:57 ... just a rant

Joe Rogan 16:57 ... you know, we were talking when he was out here. He went to Ways to Wellness, well, um, to get his shoulder worked on after, uh, the Khamzat victory. And I was saying, "You 100% could do a podcast. It would be hilarious."

Speaker 17:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:07 "It would be great. You could have guests on. You could do whatever the fuck you want. Like, you have a real future outside the sport, like, once…" And he's also very smart with his money. As crazy as that dude is, he's saved a ton of money. He gives great investment advice on Twitter. Like, he, he gives investment advice. You're like, "Wait, who the fuck is this?"

Speaker 17:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:23 "This is the same guy? He's telling you how to invest your money, you know, S&P and all this sh- shit?" And like, "Oh, what?"

Speaker 17:29 He's not as crazy as he comes off.

Joe Rogan 17:30 He's a lot smarter than people give him credit for.

Speaker 17:33 But-

Joe Rogan 17:33 He, he uses that as, like, it tricks you, and it, it tricks you into thinking that he's, like, a silly person.

Speaker 17:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:40 You know what I mean?

Speaker 17:40 But he'll say whatever comes to mind.

Joe Rogan 17:42 Yeah.

Speaker 17:43 That's him.

Joe Rogan 17:43 Which-

Speaker 17:43 But the motherfucker can fight.

Joe Rogan 17:45 Yeah. And I respect that.

Speaker 17:46 At the end of the day, that's the thing. That dude can fight. Like, he can fight, and he fights in a weird way. Like, his very weird style. Like, nobody has that style.

Joe Rogan 17:55 This episode is brought to you by Ketone-IQ. I've tried a lot of supplements, but for years it's been one thing that I've been obsessed with to keep my brain locked in, and that's ketones, an energy molecule our brains naturally create when pushed to our limits. Ketones used to cost thousands of dollars a shot and were only used by super elite people. But now, thanks to a $6 million research contract with the military, Ketone-IQ had a breakthrough, and you can finally get ketones online, on Amazon, or at Target for $5 a shot They don't taste good, but damn do they work. Trust me, if you rely on your brain for your day-to-day success like I do, take Ketone-IQ. I take it and I love it. I feel sharper, I make better decisions, I have faster memory recall, and I'm more productive. Your brain thrives on ketones. Go to ketone.com/rogan for 30% off your subscription order, or find Ketone-IQ at Target stores nationwide in the protein and electrolyte aisle, and get your first shot free. They're so confident in it that they even offer a 60-day money back guarantee. So go ahead and take your shot.

Speaker 19:07 Um, by the way, do you have a lighter?

Joe Rogan 19:09 Yes.

Speaker 19:10 In a cup?

Joe Rogan 19:10 Of course. What, you want some cigars?

Speaker 19:12 I g- I got some.

Joe Rogan 19:13 Oh, shit. Aljamain brings gifts. [box clicks shut] Let's go.

Speaker 19:16 We bring gifts. These are fighter cigars, too.

Joe Rogan 19:19 Fighter cigars?

Speaker 19:19 Yeah, I'm like part of that-

Joe Rogan 19:21 What does that mean?

Speaker 19:21 Uh, so it's different fighter lines. I know you got a foundation.

Joe Rogan 19:25 Uh-huh.

Speaker 19:25 If I could ever open this. [box rustles] I think it's all cold now. Let me use my, my, my fighting muscles.

Joe Rogan 19:31 [laughs] Fuck it up.

Speaker 19:34 You need some help?

Joe Rogan 19:35 I might.

Speaker 19:36 You might. You got the bear claws. [package rustles] [package pops] It's weird. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 19:42 I broke it. I broke the... Oh, I broke that, too. What the fuck, dude?

Speaker 19:47 It's supposed to just-

Joe Rogan 19:47 I'll use the Arrowhead.

Speaker 19:47 It's supposed to just pull open.

Joe Rogan 19:49 It should.

Speaker 19:50 I opened it this morning.

Joe Rogan 19:51 That's weird. [package rustles] Did something happen to it?

Speaker 19:55 Got cold.

Joe Rogan 19:56 I got a, I got a knife in here somewhere.

Speaker 19:57 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 19:57 Where's them big ass knives that used to be here, Jamie? Oh, we had to take them out. Why? Oh, when the vice president was here? [laughs] Yes. Lucky I always carry one. [box thuds] If we can't get these open, Aljamain... D- bro, this is like hermetically sealed. It's on backwards or something. Oh, here it goes.

Speaker 20:12 There we go.

Joe Rogan 20:13 We got it.

Speaker 20:14 So we got different ones. We got a Jude Ober in there. You got a Funkmaster. You got an OJ.

Joe Rogan 20:18 Which one's this?

Speaker 20:19 I think that's the Funkmaster.

Joe Rogan 20:21 Oh.

Speaker 20:21 So I don't know if you like, like light or dark.

Joe Rogan 20:23 I like them all. [clears throat]

Speaker 20:24 My-

Joe Rogan 20:25 This is you?

Speaker 20:25 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 20:25 We gotta smoke yours. Come on. [package clicks] Triumph Cigars.

Speaker 20:30 They're f-

Joe Rogan 20:30 So who's, who's making these? Where are they making them out of?

Speaker 20:32 Uh, so he gets them from different places. Um-

Joe Rogan 20:35 There you go. There's a clipper on the back of that, too.

Speaker 20:37 Sick.

Joe Rogan 20:39 He gets them from different places? Like-

Speaker 20:40 Yeah, like Cuba, um-

Joe Rogan 20:43 Really?

Speaker 20:43 ... Nicaragua-

Joe Rogan 20:44 Cuba?

Speaker 20:45 ... Honduras.

Joe Rogan 20:45 Cuba. Really?

Speaker 20:47 I believe it's Cuban.

Joe Rogan 20:48 'Cause Cuban cigars are-

Speaker 20:49 Are banned or sanctioned

Joe Rogan 20:50 ... hard... No, no, no.

Speaker 20:51 Oh, you do this?

Joe Rogan 20:52 They're not really banned. Pop the top. [sighs] Have you ever... Do you know how to smoke cigars, son? You're not...

Speaker 20:56 Bro.

Joe Rogan 20:56 What are you doing?

Speaker 20:57 W-

Joe Rogan 20:57 What are you doing? Give me that.

Speaker 20:57 I don't know where the-

Joe Rogan 20:58 Give it, give that to me.

Speaker 20:59 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 20:59 That's the clipper. [laughs]

Speaker 21:01 [laughs] Yo, this is high, this is some high level shit right here.

Joe Rogan 21:04 Colibri. Um-

Speaker 21:06 Wow

Joe Rogan 21:06 ... a lot of gi- a lot of fake Cuban cigars.

Speaker 21:09 You got one?

Joe Rogan 21:10 I got one. I got one. And then foot or top. There you go. [static buzzes]

Speaker 21:16 So you got like Maduros and different kinds. I'm like new into cigars. [lighter clicks] And-

Joe Rogan 21:21 And these are the Funkmaster.

Speaker 21:23 Fun-

Joe Rogan 21:23 But that might be dead. Here, I'm sorry. [cigar thuds] [blows] [lighter clicks] This one good. This one's good. [laughs]

Speaker 21:29 Jamie, you smoke cigars?

Joe Rogan 21:30 No.

Speaker 21:30 Damn.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Jamie's strictly blunts. [lighter clicks]

Speaker 21:33 Oh.

Joe Rogan 21:34 But now he's gotta stop because he doesn't wanna be a felon. Not, not here. Can't do it here. He's gotta cross state lines- I have to go to Oklahoma and get high ... gotta go to Oklahoma and get high.

Speaker 21:41 [laughs] Do you re- do you actually? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:43 Only once a day. Yeah, he takes a flight.

Speaker 21:46 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:47 Southwest Oklahoma, [laughs] gets some bong rips and hops back on a plane. 45 minutes there, coming right back. [laughs] This is good. [clears throat] This is very good. So...

Speaker 21:57 The feedback on them has been great. [swallows] They're good quality cigars. They make them from like... People that make them, and they get them to make our own different, like, lines of them.

Joe Rogan 22:05 Right.

Speaker 22:05 So pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 22:07 Mm.

Speaker 22:08 But I like them.

Joe Rogan 22:09 Well, we used to perform in Miami. Uh, there was a place that you could go. We could watch them hand roll cigars, and they'd sell you cigars, like hand rolled. It was pretty dope. You watch these ladies, like, roll everything out, and they got-

Speaker 22:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 22:20 ... that long knife, and they slice it up, and they-

Speaker 22:22 You rolled yourself? Have you rolled them?

Joe Rogan 22:24 No. No, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 22:24 They taught us how to roll down in, uh, Miami.

Joe Rogan 22:26 I don't wanna ruin it. I don't wanna do brain surgery on myself either.

Speaker 22:29 It's, it's fun. It's fun.

Joe Rogan 22:30 Get an expert. [laughs]

Speaker 22:32 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 22:32 Some- somebody's gotta be good at this.

Speaker 22:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:34 [clears throat] You got a, a rum line, too, right?

Speaker 22:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:39 Is that it? Funk Harbor around your neck?

Speaker 22:41 Funk Harbor, baby.

Joe Rogan 22:41 Look at you. [laughs]

Speaker 22:42 I got money now, Joe. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 22:44 You know that song, "Bitch, I got money now." [laughs]

Speaker 22:48 [laughs] I, I was supposed to bring my sharpie. I di- I don't know if you wanted it, like, signed or whatever, but...

Joe Rogan 22:53 [exhales] Sure.

Speaker 22:55 But we won multiple medals-

Joe Rogan 22:56 We'll get you a sharpie

Speaker 22:56 ... and things like that, so.

Joe Rogan 22:57 Multiple medals.

Speaker 22:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:58 There's medals for-

Speaker 22:59 Like, competitions, yeah

Joe Rogan 23:00 ... for rums?

Speaker 23:01 Yeah, we got two double golds for this. We got two double golds for the silver.

Joe Rogan 23:04 Jamie, can you get us some ice cubes and some glasses? Let's fucking party, Aljamain.

Speaker 23:10 Then we're gonna go to the mothership. [box thuds]

Joe Rogan 23:12 [clears throat]

Speaker 23:12 I, I love that name, by the way.

Joe Rogan 23:13 Thank you.

Speaker 23:14 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 23:15 Yeah, we were trying to figure out what to call it. We had a bunch of different... You know Mitzi Shore, that lady who ran the Comedy Store?

Speaker 23:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:23 [clears throat] The, the painting up there, that's her. She was the, the owner and founder of the Comedy Store.

Speaker 23:29 Mm.

Joe Rogan 23:29 She used to say about the comedians, "The inmates are running the asylum." So we were gonna call it The Asylum, but I thought that sounds corny. A little corny. There's something about it. It's, like, a little, like, "Look, we're crazy," you know? And then I thought, "Well, what is this..." One of the things that Ron White, he was the first r- Ron White was the first guy to move here, and you know, I knew Ron real well from LA. And Ron said, you know, "Oh, I love it. It's in the middle of the country. You could fly out." What's the matter? You want one, Jamie? I got work to do. He's got work to do. He won't get hammered with us. He goes, "It's in the middle of the country. You can fly out. It's only, like, three hours to New York, three hours to LA. It's perfect." And I was like, "Well, that would be, like, the mothership, and then you could fly out. All your, all your ships could fly to different parts of the count- but that would be your base. The mothership would be the base."

Speaker 24:18 Ah.

Joe Rogan 24:18 And I'm like, "Ooh, that's perfect."

Speaker 24:19 That's pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 24:20 Plus, obviously I'm just-

Speaker 24:21 Aliens

Joe Rogan 24:22 ... obsessed with aliens.

Speaker 24:22 That's, that's what I thought it was.

Joe Rogan 24:23 Of course. Yeah, I mean, I'm obsessed for whatever reason.

Speaker 24:27 Um-

Joe Rogan 24:28 Which one? Dark or light? What's the difference?

Speaker 24:30 So this one's our limited edition. It's got the number one on it. We're gonna be coming out with some different ones. We're actually going through a rebrand right now. This one's aged two to five years, but they're all Jamaican origin This one's aged under the tropical sun. Unaged is a silver.

Joe Rogan 24:44 Well, bust out that aged under the tropical sunshine.

Speaker 24:46 And this one we use-

Joe Rogan 24:47 [clears throat]

Speaker 24:47 ... ex-bourbon casks. So it drinks really nice if you like bourbon.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Oh, okay. So it's-

Speaker 24:50 It's a little bit, it's like, I don't wanna say sweet, but it's not as, uh, harsh when you drink it.

Joe Rogan 24:55 Are you a rum guy? Is that your thing? Is that why you started a rum company?

Speaker 25:01 Yes. I, uh-

Joe Rogan 25:02 You've always been a rum guy?

Speaker 25:03 My parents are from Jamaica, so I want to do something-

Joe Rogan 25:06 My parents are from Italy, but I hate grappa. That shit's nasty.

Speaker 25:11 Yeah. [laughs] Grappa's not-

Joe Rogan 25:12 That's fucking nasty. [laughs] That stuff's nasty.

Speaker 25:14 I'm gonna take the big one.

Joe Rogan 25:15 [clears throat] All right. Cheers, sir.

Speaker 25:19 What do you guys say? Salut?

Joe Rogan 25:20 Salut.

Speaker 25:21 Salut. I thought you guys said something else in Italy.

Joe Rogan 25:24 I don't know. Do they? [laughs] [clears throat] I just got back. I was just there last week. [sniffs]

Speaker 25:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:31 Two weeks ago? Yeah, two weeks ago. It was, it's awesome. I love it there.

Speaker 25:35 We still haven't gone. We wanna go so bad.

Joe Rogan 25:37 Oh, bro, if, if you wanna eat, that's the place.

Speaker 25:39 Pasta.

Joe Rogan 25:40 Oh my God.

Speaker 25:40 I just hear everybody talk about it.

Joe Rogan 25:42 Oh my God.

Speaker 25:42 I was like, "I would love to do that."

Joe Rogan 25:43 I gained three pounds. I ate nothing but carbs. I ate so much food. I w- I ate till I was hurting every night.

Speaker 25:51 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 25:52 I was like, [laughs] I was like, "I'm gonna ignore my diet completely." Like, I worked out every day, but I was like, "I'm gonna ignore my diet completely and just, just eat for pleasure."

Speaker 26:01 But it's not as bad, though. The f-

Joe Rogan 26:03 It's t- it's not as bad for you. The food is not as bad.

Speaker 26:05 But weight, calories are calories still, but-

Joe Rogan 26:07 It's just the volume. I'm a glutton. I ate two pizzas. I ate linguini with clams. I had, uh, burrata and, and, and, um, tomatoes, and I also had... What else did I have? Something, oh, a bunch of pieces of bread. I ate so much in one sitting that I got home that night, uh, when we sat back, and I was like, "I can't move." [laughs]

Speaker 26:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:29 Like I'm, I've eaten myself to a place where I'm like...

Speaker 26:32 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:32 You ever see one of those lions that eats too much and they just lie there like...

Speaker 26:35 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:37 "Whoa. Uh."

Speaker 26:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:39 That's how I felt.

Speaker 26:40 Trust me, that, th- those were, those were my 135 days. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:43 [laughs]

Speaker 26:44 As soon as the fight's over, I'm going in. I'm going in.

Joe Rogan 26:46 Bro, I remember one time I ran into you at the Apex, and I was like, "What do you weigh?"

Speaker 26:50 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:51 And you said, "176." I was like, "That's crazy."

Speaker 26:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:54 You gotta lose 40 pounds? That's crazy.

Speaker 26:58 The fascinating part is when I went up to 45, I got down and I was lighter. And my natural walking around weight, still eating the same way I always did, and I was walking around about 168, sometimes 66, to about 172, and I'm like, "This is, doesn't even make any sense how much lighter I am from 135." And then-

Joe Rogan 27:18 Maybe it's just less anxiety about making the weight.

Speaker 27:20 That, too.

Joe Rogan 27:21 Your body didn't hold onto it as much.

Speaker 27:22 Yeah. So the body k- kind of just recognizes what's happening, like, "Oh, this is a nicer weight cut."

Joe Rogan 27:28 Yeah, you're healthy now.

Speaker 27:29 Yeah. But-

Joe Rogan 27:29 Even though it's still a weight cut

Speaker 27:31 ... I was gonna say, but I just checked my weight last week when I got, well, actually two days ago when I got back from, uh-

Joe Rogan 27:37 Let me guess. You're at least 170.

Speaker 27:41 I'm heavier than that.

Joe Rogan 27:43 175?

Speaker 27:44 North. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 27:45 80? 180?

Speaker 27:45 I was 78. That's when I checked.

Joe Rogan 27:47 Oh. [laughs]

Speaker 27:48 And I didn't look fat. I was like, "This is crazy. It's happening again. It's happening all over again." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 27:53 Well, it's, there's people that d- don't understand it. Like, I have to explain to my normie friends. They're like, "How does he lose all that weight? He doesn't have anything to lose." I'm like, "Well, you're sucking your muscles dry, and that's what's crazy. And your organs. That's what's really dark."

Speaker 28:08 It's not good.

Joe Rogan 28:08 Oh, it's dark, dude. It's dark. It's the worst part about fighting.

Speaker 28:12 I still think same-day weigh-ins.

Joe Rogan 28:14 Well, same-day weigh-ins would change a lot, but also guys would get really hurt because people are still gonna lose the weight. They're still gonna do it.

Speaker 28:21 But I think that's gonna be a f- like a phase. Like, people are gonna realize how stupid this is, and they go, "Oh, I actually feel better just competing at my weight."

Joe Rogan 28:28 Perhaps. But I think you would have to have multiple weight classes added, many weight classes added. There's too many gaps that are too ridiculous.

Speaker 28:37 The, the 15-pound gap would be the most challenging from 55 to 70.

Joe Rogan 28:42 What about 85 to 205? That's nuts.

Speaker 28:45 And 85.

Joe Rogan 28:45 85 to 205 is crazy. 20 pounds is crazy.

Speaker 28:48 I, I always thought there should be an in-between for that one.

Joe Rogan 28:50 100%.

Speaker 28:52 But-

Joe Rogan 28:52 There should be every 10 pounds. Every 10 pounds is, is smart. Y- you know, go 125, 35, 45, 55, 60. Blow up in the ones that are, you know, like when you get to 70, make 70, 75. You know, 85 is already there. Make a 95. Make a 205. And then it gets weird with heavyweight. I think you might wanna have, like, a bridger weight, like a 220, 225, and then giant fellas. And then after that it should be as big as the fuck you wanna be.

Speaker 29:22 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 29:23 'Cause that's the weird thing is, like-

Speaker 29:24 Heavyweight's limited

Joe Rogan 29:25 ... I remember Tim Sylvia when Tim Sylvia was saucy. There was a time when Tim Sylvia was big. He was a big fella. And he had, he was cutting weight to make 265 hardcore. He was barely making it. He was so big back then, man.

Speaker 29:39 He's a big man.

Joe Rogan 29:40 He's gigantic.

Speaker 29:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:42 And that was when he was fucking sick. And he, uh, I remember h- watching him struggle to make the 265. I'm like, "That's crazy. Why are you making the heavyweights cut weight? That doesn't make any sense."

Speaker 29:53 It, it takes away from what heavyweight actually means.

Joe Rogan 29:56 Yeah. The biggest, baddest motherfucker alive.

Speaker 29:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:59 You know, when Mike Tyson was fucking everybody up, people weighed 220.

Speaker 30:02 He s- he, I don't wanna say small. Let me not say small. But he-

Joe Rogan 30:05 For a heavyweight?

Speaker 30:05 For a heavyweight he was small.

Joe Rogan 30:06 Yeah. I mean, it, it doesn't matter. Cain, when Cain was fucking everybody up, he was 240.

Speaker 30:10 He was light, too.

Joe Rogan 30:11 Yeah. Fedor, same thing. He was never real big. Fedor was fairly small compared to a lot of other heatherweight, heavyweights.

Speaker 30:18 But then you got a guy like, uh, Rozenstruik, uh, the Spin.

Joe Rogan 30:21 Oh, that guy's crazy.

Speaker 30:22 He's huge.

Joe Rogan 30:24 Seven feet tall. He's gigantic.

Speaker 30:25 Huge. That guy is-

Joe Rogan 30:26 That range is nuts

Speaker 30:28 ... he's like the, the, the modern-day Neanderthal. Like, he's a Amazonian. He's a giant.

Joe Rogan 30:32 This guy, a literal giant. He's one of those guys where, um, when I saw that fight that, that, uh, MVP did with him and Junior dos Santos, I said, "Please don't do that fight." That, that fight's not right. That's, that's one of those fights where you're like, "That fight's not right."

Speaker 30:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:47 This is just too much of a changing of the guard.

Speaker 30:49 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 30:50 Is one guy who is coming off of karate combat, first of all. And one thing if Junior was a wrestler, if Junior was a sick wrestler and, you know, oh, you know, maybe he's gonna take him down, ground and pound. This, this is kinda... Even though he's older and he's been knocked out a bunch of times, he's still very dangerous. But, you know, Junior had seen his best days back when he knocked out Cain.

Speaker 31:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:10 Which was like, what year was that?

Speaker 31:12 Ooh. 2016, 2015 maybe?

Joe Rogan 31:16 Was it even?

Speaker 31:18 I got signed at 2014. I don't... I th- I remember Cain... Not Cain.

Joe Rogan 31:24 So it was the big-

Speaker 31:24 Yeah, I remember-

Joe Rogan 31:24 It was the big Fox card. It was the first card on Fox.

Speaker 31:28 2016.

Joe Rogan 31:28 Because I remember they made Cain fight with a blown out knee, or they encouraged him-

Speaker 31:33 Yeah

Joe Rogan 31:33 ... to fight with a blown out knee. Ca- Cain's knee was fucked before that fight, and Junior caught him with that perfect right hand. What year? 2013, okay. So-

Speaker 31:43 That's his debut?

Joe Rogan 31:45 Right. No, that's that fight. [clears throat] That's the fight where he knocked out Cain Velasquez. No, he lost to Cain in that one. Oh, that's the second one. Yeah, yeah. What's the one where he beat Cain? The, it was right before that. He lost. Uh, no, right before that, Jamie.

Speaker 31:56 Oh, so he got signed before I did.

Joe Rogan 31:58 So, yeah, the Fox one. 2011. Okay, so 15 years of wars.

Speaker 32:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:04 15 years of the Stipe Miocic fight, which was horrible to watch, right? That was a brutal, brutal fight. And then you have the second Cain fight, which was horrible to watch, and then I think there was a third Cain fight too, correct? Yeah, that was

Speaker 32:15 With JDS?

Joe Rogan 32:16 Yes.

Speaker 32:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:17 Which was also horrible to watch, you know? It's at that s-

Speaker 32:19 Bro, two tough fights back to back.

Joe Rogan 32:21 Bro, you, if you don't ca- take Cain out in that first round, that storm never ends.

Speaker 32:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:27 Never ends. You're like, "We're gonna ride this storm out."

Speaker 32:30 [laughs] No.

Joe Rogan 32:32 There was no riding.

Speaker 32:33 It's not happening.

Joe Rogan 32:33 Prime Cain was a motherfucker, dude.

Speaker 32:37 I, [sighs] man, when, uh... I'm, I've always been conflicted with him and DC, 'cause it kinda reminded me of, uh, Merab and I, and I always said, like, if DC stayed at heavyweight, he could've arguably, potentially, have been the greatest heavyweight of all time. But I do know DC always says in the training room, Cain was the man.

Joe Rogan 32:57 Yeah.

Speaker 32:57 He was the guy.

Joe Rogan 32:58 Yeah, he told me always Cain beat his ass. DC should've been a middleweight. How about that?

Speaker 33:03 I don't know if that guy [laughs] can make it middleweight.

Joe Rogan 33:05 Discipline DC.

Speaker 33:06 Him and his chicken. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:07 If DC went to Dagestan, if DC went to Dagestan for three years...

Speaker 33:13 [laughs] He's not gonna forget.

Joe Rogan 33:16 Yeah.

Speaker 33:17 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:17 Forget. Three years. Um, if he, if DC made middleweight, and he could've made middleweight. A lot of guys who are way leaner than him have made that weight.

Speaker 33:29 So I saw him at my UFC debut, UFC 170, at Mandalay Bay in the back room w- uh, cutting weight, doing the workouts, and he looked like he was dying just to make 205.

Joe Rogan 33:42 Mm-hmm. True.

Speaker 33:43 So I don't know how he would've done it.

Joe Rogan 33:48 Well, he would've had to change his diet.

Speaker 33:50 No more Popeyes.

Joe Rogan 33:51 Yeah, no more nothing. No more garbage.

Speaker 33:53 I love DC.

Joe Rogan 33:53 And he would've had to...

Speaker 33:54 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:54 I love DC, too. He's my favorite person to do commentary with by far. He's the best.

Speaker 33:59 He's fun.

Joe Rogan 34:00 He's, we have such a good time. We have such a good time. He's such a fun dude. Like, genuinely happy, fun dude. Look at him. That's 205 DC. So 205 DC, though, you're telling me that, like, Alex Pereira, if he was built like that, couldn't lose 20 pounds? Of course he could.

Speaker 34:16 Yeah. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 34:18 'Cause he's not... Look, if you see the guys that fight at 85, like Joe Pyfer.

Speaker 34:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:22 Joe Pyfer's a giant. D- Drekis? Dricus du Plessis is a fucking giant.

Speaker 34:27 He's big.

Joe Rogan 34:27 He's gigantic. He looks like a heavyweight.

Speaker 34:30 But look at his ribcage.

Joe Rogan 34:30 And he makes 85. I... What does that mean? He's sucking it in. [laughs]

Speaker 34:36 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 34:36 He could've made middleweight. He could've made middleweight. If he had, like, the real, if he, if he just had the drive and did it as a lifestyle change and, like, did it over the course of, like, a year and, like, really leaned himself out, got on, like, a ketogenic diet, leaned himself out.

Speaker 34:53 But then how often would he be able to fight?

Joe Rogan 34:55 Depends on how much he actually gets his body weight down to. That's the thing. Like, DC's only, like, 5'11", 5'10". How tall is he?

Speaker 35:04 I'ma give him 5'11".

Joe Rogan 35:06 Maybe, maybe he's-

Speaker 35:06 'Cause I like him

Joe Rogan 35:07 ... maybe, I love him.

Speaker 35:07 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 35:08 He might be, might be 5'11".

Speaker 35:09 Otherwise I'd say 5'5", 5'8".

Joe Rogan 35:10 But there's guys with his body that could ha- But it's not, like, a thing where you, you can make the weight by just dehydrating yourself. No, it's, he's too big. But if he had, with his frame, if he had slowly but surely leaned himself out and did it healthy, smart, over, like, the course of a year, he'd have to take some time off and really just dedicate himself to just getting lean. His gas tank would be better. Who's gonna fuck with that guy at middleweight? Do you remember what he was doing to Dan Henderson? Do you remember that fight?

Speaker 35:40 He flipped him like a burger.

Joe Rogan 35:41 Bro, he threw him around like a rag doll, and Dan Henderson's a monster. He's a monster. That guy's a beast. He's such a tank, and DC just rag dolled him. Just rag dolled him.

Speaker 35:53 That was 205, right?

Joe Rogan 35:54 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 35:54 That Henderson came up.

Joe Rogan 35:55 Mm-hmm. Henderson came up.

Speaker 35:57 Yeah, you know, 'cause when I would cut down, and I wasn't always this big at 35, but when I would cut down to 35, I would have to do it in stages. So I couldn't do a three-month turnaround, like I did for the one fight.

Joe Rogan 36:09 How much time do you need?

Speaker 36:11 I need at least... [sighs] Four months is ideal.

Joe Rogan 36:14 That's crazy.

Speaker 36:15 It's ideal.

Joe Rogan 36:15 That's so long.

Speaker 36:16 'Cause I could slowly get down, and then I could start chipping away. 'Cause I'm at my natural state. I'm fat and happy. And it's not even fat. I'm just at my normal [laughs] walking weight. And then I get down from 70 whatever to 70. Then I get it the next week or the week following down to 65. After that, I get down to 60, and that's, like, the optimal weight I wanna be at. And then I get to 55, and this is, like, where I'm gonna be when I'm stepping into the octagon. So to do that over the periods of time, like, you could do it really quick 'cause I, I have the wrestler's mentality. I can do it fast, but Doesn't mean everything's gonna be where it should be. And I also felt my cardio in rounds four and five, in comparison to doing rounds four and five in the training room, severely different.

Joe Rogan 36:58 Mm.

Speaker 36:58 My gas tank, you would think I was Merab, right? And, uh, just for, for comparison's sake, right? And then I would go into the fights, in rounds four or five I'm like, "I gotta conserve some ene- I gotta conserve some energy, 'cause I'm, I'm slowing down."

Joe Rogan 37:09 Yeah.

Speaker 37:09 I can feel it, but I'm trying not to show it that I'm slowing down.

Joe Rogan 37:11 Is there a difference between when you were allowed to use the IV and when they took the IVs away?

Speaker 37:15 I used the IV once.

Joe Rogan 37:17 Only once?

Speaker 37:17 And that was in, like, 2015. I thought it was stupid.

Joe Rogan 37:20 Really?

Speaker 37:20 It took forever to get it, and I'm like, "I could've been eating right now, and I'm the same weight that I was when I just ate." I'm like, "I'd much rather just stuff my face."

Joe Rogan 37:29 I think the idea is that it hydrates you more efficiently. 'Cause instead of having to go through your stomach-

Speaker 37:34 Yeah

Joe Rogan 37:35 ... it goes right into your veins, and then it hydrates your muscles more efficiently.

Speaker 37:38 I didn't really feel, like, a performance difference, if I'm being honest.

Joe Rogan 37:43 Interesting. Interesting.

Speaker 37:43 But I'm different. Some people call me an anomaly and they say you can't do what I do. I drink in training camp and people think I'm crazy.

Joe Rogan 37:49 Do you really?

Speaker 37:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:50 How often?

Speaker 37:50 I drink the night before the fight.

Joe Rogan 37:52 What?

Speaker 37:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:53 Come on.

Speaker 37:53 I have, I have one glass. Sometimes two.

Joe Rogan 37:56 Really?

Speaker 37:56 Three is, like, we're getting crazy, but [laughs]

Joe Rogan 37:58 The night before the fight-

Speaker 37:59 Yeah

Joe Rogan 37:59 ... after you've cut weight?

Speaker 38:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:01 Why do you do that?

Speaker 38:02 I'm not Jon Jones, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 38:04 [laughs]

Speaker 38:05 ... that guy is built... I'm built different, but he's built different than me, 'cause [laughs]

Joe Rogan 38:08 Well, I think Jon is just so fucking talented and so fucking smart that he was able to get by and dominate at a world championship level by putting himself at a deficit like that. Whereas if Jon... [smacks lips] You say that, but Jon's a different pers-

Speaker 38:25 I know

Joe Rogan 38:25 ... like, he wouldn't be the same guy.

Speaker 38:27 I know.

Joe Rogan 38:27 He's wild.

Speaker 38:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:28 There's something about Jon that's one of the reasons why he's so good, is that he's wild. He's intelligent and wild at the same time.

Speaker 38:35 And that's why you can't compare... It's like, whatever makes you happy. When people... Uh, I remember Kyle Dake said something like he'll eat ice cream, not right before a match, but in his training, he said because it makes him happy. I wanna have a drink because throughout the training camp I'm already going through this hard grind. After sparring and I feel like I hit a threshold where my conditioning is at a place where I want it to be, it's like a checkpoint. I'm like, "Okay, this is my checkpoint. I hit it," and-

Joe Rogan 39:02 Have you ever worn an Oura Ring or a WHOOP strap or any of those things?

Speaker 39:05 Yeah, that thing's stupid.

Joe Rogan 39:06 Well [laughs]

Speaker 39:08 They lie to you.

Joe Rogan 39:08 That thing's attacking me every day. [laughs]

Speaker 39:10 'Cause what it's saying is that the alcohol is affecting your sleep.

Joe Rogan 39:13 Yeah. [laughs] Stop attacking me. I've, uh- [laughs]

Speaker 39:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:16 Took that shit off and threw it in the corner somewhere.

Speaker 39:18 [laughs] Fuck you with your facts.

Joe Rogan 39:19 [laughs] No, seriously.

Speaker 39:21 Facts, facts and data. I, uh, I remember I brought out Adrian Yanez, I brought him out twice. The first time, though, um, it was for the Petr Yan rematch and, uh, [laughs] he stays at my house for about a week. We spar, I think it was a Thursday, I take him to Johnny McGory's, and, um, I bring him to my guy Rishi. He's like a-

Joe Rogan 39:40 What's Johnny McGory's?

Speaker 39:40 It's a, it's a pub-

Joe Rogan 39:41 Oh, okay

Speaker 39:42 ... um, on Long Island in Massapequa. They got two now. But, um, I bring him over there and the, the guy I talk to over there, who I deal with, Rishi, he's the man. He's good friends with Weidman and Volante from, like, the college days back at Hofstra, and he's a big MMA fan, so I love that. So instantly we kicked it off when I met him the first time. So I bring him over there, and it's after sparring, I'm like, "Yeah, we're gonna get some food." We go there, and then he sees me and I order a drink and I, I was like, "Yeah, get one for him, too." He was like, "Yo, bro, what are you..." Like [laughs]

Joe Rogan 40:09 [laughs]

Speaker 40:09 "What, what are you doing?" [laughs] I was like, "No, no, this is normal. Trust me." He's like, "You..." He looks at me and he's just, like, dumbfounded, he's like, "You drink in training camp?" Like it was the biggest, like, taboo thing on Earth. I'm like, "Yeah, dude, like, we just had some good rounds today. This is my reward. You deserve one, too. Like, you're in shape,"

Joe Rogan 40:27 [laughs]

Speaker 40:27 "I'm in shape. Let's have one or two."

Joe Rogan 40:31 Oh. [laughs]

Speaker 40:31 And, uh, and I always get my Thai chili wings over there. And so whenever I go in Long Island, I'm finishing up a camp on the East Coast 'cause I'm fighting home on the East Coast, um, Rishi always hit me up and he goes, "We're gonna do the m- uh, the ritual?" [laughs]

Joe Rogan 40:43 [laughs]

Speaker 40:44 Get the Thai chili wings and get my IPAs. And yeah, but like I said, everyone's different. Whatever makes you feel comfortable. If, if you're gonna do it, you can't... Like, for me, like, having a drink the night before the fight and people go, like, "You're not worried it's gonna affect your performance?" And I go, "If I lose because of this one drink, I wasn't supposed to win, point-blank, period."

Joe Rogan 41:06 Okay, but let me, let me push back on that.

Speaker 41:08 Push.

Joe Rogan 41:08 Imagine you're fighting a guy who you and him are like that, neck and neck, neck and neck.

Speaker 41:15 Mousasi?

Joe Rogan 41:16 Neck and... Yeah, right? Neck and neck. And the difference is whether or not you got that extra REM sleep the night before, where you could push when you lay off, when you lay back on the gas, when you really maybe could, like, if you were a little bit more rested, you could just one extra move, one extra transition, one extra guard pass, one extra attempt at a submission, one extra thing that gets you the round. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 41:41 I take my naps-

Joe Rogan 41:42 [laughs]

Speaker 41:43 ... before the fight. [laughs] I take my nap before the fight.

Joe Rogan 41:47 Well-

Speaker 41:47 Recharge that battery.

Joe Rogan 41:48 Well, listen, Ilia Topuria used to drink wine-

Speaker 41:51 He-

Joe Rogan 41:51 ... at the weigh-ins. He was wei- weighing in whi- while he was cutting weight. He was drinking wine.

Speaker 41:55 There's no perfect formula, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:57 Yeah, there's no perfect formula. I mean, it also, there's something to be said for doing what makes you happy, always. I think enthusiasm is a very important thing. Enthusiasm and joy is a very important thing. It's underrated.

Speaker 42:11 Yeah. So my friend Dennis Buzukya, he just fought in that Albania card. Um, bad stoppage by the ref, and I like Jason Herzog, but bad stoppage. He said he tapped, he didn't tap. But I remember his second contender fight, he was cutting weight, and Merab was having a party at his house in Vegas. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 42:27 That tap, that was a weird one. That tap was weird. That did-

Speaker 42:30 He went from locking his hands to finding his leg and pushing off the leg-

Joe Rogan 42:34 Yeah

Speaker 42:34 ... and he ruled it as a tap and, like-

Joe Rogan 42:35 I just don't understand that tap

Speaker 42:37 ... I go, I go, "Jason," we've tr- I've trained with Jason, and I'm not, I'm not attacking him 'cause I don't want people thinking... I don't like to attack people unless they really deserve it. But I go, "If you're not sure," 'cause he said he wasn't sure. He said it looked like a tap. So I go, "If it w- if you think it looked like it and you weren't sure-" Why not just wait? Because if it was, he would do it again.

Joe Rogan 42:57 Yes.

Speaker 42:57 But his immediate action after pushing off the leg was to grab between his leg where you kinda lock-

Joe Rogan 43:02 Right

Speaker 43:02 ... your hand from the head and arm-

Joe Rogan 43:03 Defend

Speaker 43:03 ... and to, I-

Joe Rogan 43:05 Yeah

Speaker 43:05 ... have the hardest time ever finishing Dennis, and I'm a pretty good [laughs] black belt in jujitsu, and that's a good position for me. And I ha- sh- I struggle. I could count on my hands how many times I've probably finished him in that position.

Joe Rogan 43:17 It's also, it's the classic defense.

Speaker 43:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:19 You, you grab the leg, and that's the best way to prevent the guy from putting all the pressure on the neck-

Speaker 43:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 43:24 ... with the, the head and arm.

Speaker 43:26 And-

Joe Rogan 43:26 Do you ever go to-

Speaker 43:28 ... it sucks

Joe Rogan 43:28 ... do you know what the impaler is?

Speaker 43:30 No.

Joe Rogan 43:30 Eddie Bravo calls the impaler. To get out of that position, you, you slide the knee to the sternum, and you finish with the-

Speaker 43:37 For-

Joe Rogan 43:37 ... knee on the sternum

Speaker 43:38 ... for the bottom guy.

Joe Rogan 43:39 For the top guy.

Speaker 43:40 Ah.

Joe Rogan 43:40 So when the guy's defending-

Speaker 43:41 Yes

Joe Rogan 43:42 ... yeah, you go knee to sternum.

Speaker 43:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 43:43 It's fucking brutal, man.

Speaker 43:45 'Cause now you're-

Joe Rogan 43:45 It's brutal

Speaker 43:46 ... you're being attacked on two different fronts.

Joe Rogan 43:47 Uh-huh. You, you're being crushed. Your sternum's being crushed, and this defense does not work as good anymore. It still gives you a little bit, the, the grabbing the leg and looping over like that gives you a little bit, but there's something about that crushing on the sternum and along with the squeeze of the head and arm choke.

Speaker 44:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:05 It's nasty.

Speaker 44:06 The difference with that, I would imagine you, it, at least when I've tried it, I try to get it before they get on their side. 'Cause once they're-

Joe Rogan 44:12 Right

Speaker 44:12 ... perpendicular with the ground, it's a little bit hard to get the exact-

Joe Rogan 44:15 Of course

Speaker 44:16 ... pressure point of what you want. And I go, I try this literally the very next day, and I go, "There's no way you could submit somebody with your ass in the air." You're, you could be squeezing as hard as you want, but if your ass is in the air and this guy is on his side, it's gonna be really difficult to make somebody tap in that position.

Joe Rogan 44:31 Very hard, depending upon your squeeze ability, right?

Speaker 44:33 That too.

Joe Rogan 44:34 Did you see Amosov, when Amosov finished that dude? He did the, he did that thing. He's a nasty grappler.

Speaker 44:40 He, bro, and it's crazy 'cause he lost to Jason Jackson, and I'm not saying that as a, like, a slight.

Joe Rogan 44:44 Bro, Jason Jackson's a beast.

Speaker 44:45 But it's just like, how good is Jason Jackson? And-

Joe Rogan 44:47 Jason Jackson's real fucking good

Speaker 44:49 ... and, and that's my Jamaican brother. He's not signed yet.

Joe Rogan 44:51 Real good.

Speaker 44:52 He needs to be signed to the UFC, 100, 100%. That guy could crack. I wish they was-

Joe Rogan 44:57 And he took him out, man. He took him out. He didn't just beat him.

Speaker 44:59 Yeah. I wish they would just-

Joe Rogan 45:00 He took Amosov out

Speaker 45:01 ... cross-promote. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 45:03 Well, that's not gonna happen.

Speaker 45:04 I know Dennis not gonna, [laughs] I know it's not gonna happen, but.

Joe Rogan 45:06 I wish Santa Claus was real.

Speaker 45:08 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 45:09 [laughs]

Speaker 45:09 But I go, it's like, "Why don't we just find out who's, this, o- uh, make it like boxing, you know? Where we could find out who's actually-"

Joe Rogan 45:15 So look at this, uh, how he finishes. DC and I were actually talking about this 'cause he, look, he goes knee to the belly. See how he does that? Across. Now, if you're grabbing the leg, so if he was grabbing his leg, you would go knee across the chest, and you put it right down on the sternum. But he did that to make sure he was flattened out.

Speaker 45:33 Yes.

Joe Rogan 45:34 To make sure that he couldn't go to the side. But this dude is-

Speaker 45:36 This was so good

Joe Rogan 45:37 ... wicked.

Speaker 45:37 [laughs] Joe's just looking. He's like, "Eh, I can't do anything about that."

Joe Rogan 45:41 Of course he can fucking-

Speaker 45:42 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 45:43 Of course he can breakdance. Bro, breakdancing is a great base for jujitsu. We had a bunch of guys, Richie Martinez and Gio Martinez, these guys that came into 10th Planet way back-

Speaker 45:52 Gummy

Joe Rogan 45:52 ... in the early 2000s, and, um, we were all like, "Oh, shit, breakdancing." Like, we never even thought... Gymnastics, everybody knew. Like, a guy who could do gymnastics, a guy who was, like, really good at tumbling, that kind of explosive ability and balance and control and body strength totally translate to jujitsu.

Speaker 46:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:11 But we didn't even think about it. Like, breakdancing is kind of like a gymnastics. You know, these dudes are doing weird shit where they're on one arm-

Speaker 46:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 46:19 ... with their legs lotus position above their head, and they're hopping around on one arm.

Speaker 46:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:24 That's crazy.

Speaker 46:25 It, it is. 'Cause I try to do it, and I'm like, "Yeah, I can't do that."

Joe Rogan 46:28 Eddie started doing breakdancing practice as a part of, like, strength and conditioning training for jujitsu. He started trying breakdancing moves. Eddie's so open-minded. He's always willing to, like, try something out. Like, thing about Eddie's classes, too, if somebody finishes somebody with something, Eddie will s- like, stop the class. "What did you do?" And it's like, "Well, I do this, and I grab my foot here." And he's like, "Okay. Everybody look at this. Come over. Come over." And he'll bring everybody over. He goes, "Show it to us. Show us how you set it up." And he'll show them how he set it up, and they go, "Who thinks they can get out of this? Who thinks they got a move to get out of this?" And then they would all practice different ways to get out of this. And they go, "Well, what if a guy does this? What if a guy does that?" And they break it down. Like, he is very, very, like, open to new moves, you know? And it's, it makes his classes very interesting in that regard.

Speaker 47:16 You, you guys still train?

Joe Rogan 47:17 I don't.

Speaker 47:18 I-

Joe Rogan 47:18 I haven't trained in a while. I was training with Gabe Tuttle out here for a little bit, but I'm, my, my, I got one knee, man, that just keeps fucking up, and I do too many, I like to do too many things to d- wanna go through another surgery-

Speaker 47:31 Yeah

Joe Rogan 47:31 ... or to deal with something. I just don't wanna d- it, it's like everybody I know that gets to my age that still trains gets a disc replacement, gets another surgery, gets another surgery. And then when you start getting, like, back surgeries or, like Matt Serra just got a knee replacement recently. When you start getting to that range, it's like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. This shit's forever."

Speaker 47:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Like, you, you gotta walk around. You gotta play with your kids. You gotta be able to go hiking. You gotta be able to do things. And if you break your body down, especially through grappling... I still hit the bag. I still, still train, like, kickboxing st- I still do a lot of working out. I work out constantly, but every time I start doing jujitsu again, my knee starts throbbing.

Speaker 48:16 Yeah, that's, uh, that's kinda similar to Al Iaquinta.

Joe Rogan 48:20 Yeah?

Speaker 48:20 Sucks. Ah, I always, I always go, like, I wonder how much more he had in the tank. He wasn't allowed-

Joe Rogan 48:26 Bro, he gave Khabib a hell of a fight on no notice.

Speaker 48:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:30 No notice.

Speaker 48:31 And the Khabib fans don't give him any credit for it.

Joe Rogan 48:33 [sighs]

Speaker 48:33 They go, "He was playing with him." I go, "Really?" Tell-

Joe Rogan 48:37 I'm-

Speaker 48:37 ... tell me one fighter who goes out there and tells you that they're just going to play with their opponent. They-

Joe Rogan 48:42 Prime time Al was a beast.

Speaker 48:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:44 He was a beast. And he was tough as shit and game, you know? Isn't he selling real estate now?

Speaker 48:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:51 He's doing-

Speaker 48:51 Shout out to Al Iaquinta.

Joe Rogan 48:52 Yeah, he's doing really well, man. We were-

Speaker 48:54 Good for him

Joe Rogan 48:54 ... working together for a little bit, but then it got to the point where I was like, "Dude, I just don't have the time. It's, I gotta make a decision," and that's when I started doing the rum company and everything. And s- you see how fast time Gets absorbed with things

Speaker 49:08 Oh, yeah. With everything.

Joe Rogan 49:09 Yeah.

Speaker 49:09 Yeah. I wish I had multiple lives so I could do multiple different things.

Joe Rogan 49:14 [laughs]

Speaker 49:14 Multiple different lives. I-

Joe Rogan 49:16 You might be in another dimension

Speaker 49:18 Uh, maybe. I would love to. But in this dimension, I have too many interests. I almost wish I didn't have as many things that I love to do. I could whittle them down to a few.

Joe Rogan 49:26 Yeah.

Speaker 49:27 You know?

Joe Rogan 49:27 I, I still wanna, I wanna learn how you do your spinning back kick. I wanna-

Speaker 49:35 I throw mine, but... I know you do yours a little bit of a different way. I s- I remember the video you did with, uh, GSP showing him how you do yours. Um, but it's, I like to spin. I like to spin to win.

Joe Rogan 49:49 S- listen, if it lands, the amount of torque-

Speaker 49:51 It's-

Joe Rogan 49:51 ... that you get on a spin is crazy

Speaker 49:52 ... come on. It's, it's not good. [laughs] It's-

Joe Rogan 49:55 What, what do you do different than the way I do it?

Speaker 49:58 I don't know. I, I know you're supposed to step, turn the heel, look over the shoulder.

Joe Rogan 50:02 You can jump as well. You don't have to step. It, it all, it, it, the whole thing is just getting it out in a straight line.

Speaker 50:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:07 And the problem with most people that didn't train, like in a classic taekwondo school, is that they s- it's a s- a circle.

Speaker 50:14 It's just-

Joe Rogan 50:14 A circle can land. It can land, and it can be really powerful if it lands, but it's not gonna be as powerful as the way I do it. The way I do it is a turn, and then it... I always say spinning back kick when I do commentary because the, everybody understands that.

Speaker 50:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:28 But it's a turning side kick, is the way we talked about it in taekwondo.

Speaker 50:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:31 It's a turning side kick.

Speaker 50:33 You, like, fold the damn back.

Joe Rogan 50:34 So the side kick is straight.

Speaker 50:35 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 50:35 Yeah. I'm, I'm getting maximum amount of energy, maximum efficiency. It's the difference between throwing a punch like this. You can knock somebody out if you throw a punch like this, like a crazy arm punch, and you could hurt them and knock them out 100% of the time. And you could do that once and say, "That's the way to throw a punch," or you could learn how to throw a punch Tommy Hearns style, where you're fucking turning your body into it, and you got all that torque, and bang, it catches you on the end in a straight line.

Speaker 51:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:02 And Tommy would just starch people with that. Or Deontay Wilder, right? Straight, straight down the pipe. That's the difference between a turning side kick and when people spin in a circle. So when you spin in a circle, of course it's gonna have power. You have giant legs. Your, your b- legs carry your body around all day long. You've got the, you're pushing off the other leg. You're spinning with all your torso. Yeah, it's gonna have power, but it's not gonna have as much power as the way I do it. The way I throw it, when it lands, it's everything's going in a straight line, and I'm pushing off my back leg, and I'm getting all my abs into it and my hips into it, and it's just straight, thud.

Speaker 51:38 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 51:38 And I know that if I hit you with that, you're going nowhere.

Speaker 51:42 Down. You're going down. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 51:43 You're going to the hospital. Like, you're not gonna make it, man.

Speaker 51:46 Yeah, I saw you hit the bag, and I was like, "Holy shit, that's a fucking kick and a half right there."

Joe Rogan 51:51 There's only one video of me online fighting. It's from when I was 19. I was at the US Cup in Connecticut, and I hit this dude with a spinning back kick and sent him through the air, sent him flying through the air. And I knew, the moment I hit him, I'm like, "This fight's over." I turned around and just walked off casually. I, I d-

Speaker 52:07 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 52:07 'Cause I would like to do that, like to fuck with people's heads.

Speaker 52:10 It's like... [laughs]

Joe Rogan 52:10 But I do- I knew that one move-

Speaker 52:12 Yeah

Joe Rogan 52:12 ... has too much power for your body to absorb. There's no way you can take it. It's just too much. It's like getting hit by a car.

Speaker 52:21 No, it's nasty, man. It's a nasty kick.

Joe Rogan 52:23 Like when Jon landed it on Stipe.

Speaker 52:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:26 Just, it just caved his body in. Like, Stipe's one of the toughest human beings that's ever walked the face of the earth, but he takes that to the body. Like, that's... You're not going nowhere. You're not going nowhere. And Jon's so smart. Like, Jon practiced that specific technique because he was going up to heavyweight. He was like, "I need something 'cause I can't knock guys out with one punch at heavyweight. I can maybe kick them with m- but th- what's the most powerful kick?" And he realized it's the spinning back kick, so he just drilled it. So three days a week, that's all he would do is just drill the spinning back kick. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard about BetterHelp before, but maybe you haven't heard from those who have actually used BetterHelp. That feedback can tell you everything you need to know. Go to betterhelp.com/reviews and check out the feedback from hundreds of people saying how much they love this service. It's easy to see why. To get started, all you have to do is answer a few questions. You'll get matched up with a therapist based on your needs, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time. See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com/JRE. That's betterH-E-L-P.com/JRE.

Speaker 53:44 Yeah. And, uh, one thing about Jon, man, he's such a, like, his IQ has always been through the roof. And he-

Joe Rogan 53:52 His fighting IQ is crazy

Speaker 53:53 ... he understands fighting, and I think that's what sets him apart from everybody else, is he understands himself. Like, if you look at him, he could go, "I'm not probably gonna knock anybody out at heavyweight w- with the way I punch, so-"

Joe Rogan 54:05 Right

Speaker 54:05 ... developed something else, and it worked.

Joe Rogan 54:06 And that's just reality. That's just the reality of his frame. I mean, you know as what, as well as anybody, it's weird how some people can just punch. They're, like, from the moment they get into the gym, the first time they're hitting the pads, like, what the fuck? It's a natural gift. Punching power is a weird, natural gift.

Speaker 54:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:23 And either you have it or you don't. And if you don't have it, you can only develop it so much.

Speaker 54:28 I'm still trying to figure out if I have it.

Joe Rogan 54:30 [laughs]

Speaker 54:32 [laughs] It's physics, man.

Joe Rogan 54:33 A lot of it is, like, the size of your hands.

Speaker 54:35 And my arms aren't that long.

Joe Rogan 54:38 Yeah.

Speaker 54:38 So someone who, like a Topuria, has, like, he's not as long with his, his, uh, his reach.

Joe Rogan 54:43 Topuria's got big ass fists, man.

Speaker 54:44 But I always, like, imitate the Topuria and the, the Conor McGregor. With little Topuria, and he's ba, ba, ba, ba, ba.

Joe Rogan 54:53 [laughs]

Speaker 54:54 Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. [laughs] It's just fucking funny shit.

Joe Rogan 54:55 Well, Conor's another example. Like, big fists, man.

Speaker 54:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:58 Look at that dude's fists. They're giant. That's a big thing.

Speaker 55:01 Yeah, I got a little, uh... These hands are-

Joe Rogan 55:03 You gotta do what you gotta do

Speaker 55:04 ... these hands are meant for grabbing things. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 55:06 Yeah. Well, they're really good at that. But that's the beautiful thing about MMA as opposed to boxing. Like, there's a whole bunch of different ways to finish a fight.

Speaker 55:13 Yeah. What did you think about the fight ... with Yusuf before the fight happened, like, in terms of, like, a... 'Cause I used to text you, like, for s- like, asking, like, your opinion, like, "What do you think?" Uh, you know, um, so I was c- I'm curious to know what your thoughts were before the fight. Obviously, hindsight, um, 'cause I know what I thought going into the fight.

Joe Rogan 55:33 What did you think going into the fight?

Speaker 55:35 I thought it was gonna probably be one of the hardest fights, for sure. We've trained together multiple times. Back in 2017, we trained together a couple times within the last two years, and, uh, I always knew he moved well on the feet, lateral footwork, great calf kicks, and I, I said to myself, "If I get chopped down with a couple of these calf kicks early in the fight, it's gonna be a rough night, especially if I can't move and do what I do," which is I'm also good at lateral footwork, and he has those nasty knees up the middle that are very quick to end a fight or put you on skates and could get you out of there, right? And, uh, he did submit me that one time, so I think that really gave him a lot of confidence coming into it. So those were my thoughts. I was like, "For me to win this, I gotta stay on the outside and then put pressure on him when I can put pressure on him, take away his calf kicks when I can, um, by putting him on the back foot, making it a little bit more difficult to land that calf kick with authority," right? So that was my two cents on that, and I knew if I could take him down first, um, it should go my way.

Joe Rogan 56:35 Well, it, it worked.

Speaker 56:37 Yeah. It was a little easier than I thought it would've been, but, um, except that, that guillotine.

Joe Rogan 56:44 I think you're a, I think you're a different beast. Yeah, the guillotine was tight.

Speaker 56:47 [laughs] The guillotine had me, like...

Joe Rogan 56:49 Bro.

Speaker 56:49 I was like, "Hold on. I didn't plan for this. I didn't plan for this one."

Joe Rogan 56:51 Yeah, that was tight. Yeah, but you got out of it, and I think you're a different beast at 45. You know, I think you just have more r- resilience at 45. You're more durable at 45.

Speaker 57:02 More energy, too.

Joe Rogan 57:03 Yeah, that's where it comes from, right? It's, again, I wish we could eliminate weight cutting completely from fighting, and I've had conversations with the UFC about doing it, but there's no real roadmap that makes sense. I think once guys get it ingrained in their head that they're gonna cut weight, they're just always gonna cut weight. They're gonna... Even if there is weight classes, they're just gonna fight dehydrated. They're gonna figure out a way to be bigger.

Speaker 57:27 I mean, we did it for wrestling, and we competed two hours later.

Joe Rogan 57:30 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 57:30 Sometimes an hour. I go-

Joe Rogan 57:32 But you're not getting punched and kicked in the head. That's the difference.

Speaker 57:35 That's why, that's why I feel if they did same-day weigh-ins, kind of like what you do for an amateur, you could get as big as you can get, which is gonna be very little, maybe five pounds.

Joe Rogan 57:45 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 57:46 So I go same-day weigh-ins. You give them four hours, so this way they can eat and have a nice meal, digest, and then they can still warm up and have a, enough time to prepare for the fight. Um-

Joe Rogan 57:55 I think for the fighter's own safety, you almost have to protect them from that, and that's why they have the weigh-in the day before.

Speaker 58:01 Well-

Joe Rogan 58:01 For their own safety, 'cause they're, there's guys that are just gonna be stupid, and the fights are gonna suffer. They're not gonna be as good because you're gonna be more depleted.

Speaker 58:09 I just, I just think there's gonna be people that understand you can't cut 20 pounds the day of the fight and go and compete. I think that's gonna be the end, like, the end-all, be-all. Like, you're gonna come to the realization, like, "Hey-"

Joe Rogan 58:24 They'll just lose, and then it'll weed out the people that are doing that.

Speaker 58:27 And then they'll go, "Okay, so that didn't work."

Joe Rogan 58:29 "I have to go up." Right.

Speaker 58:30 "I have to go up in the weight class, and this makes more sense for me."

Joe Rogan 58:33 Wouldn't it be better if we... Look, we have random drug tests, right? They just show... How many times you been randomly drug tested?

Speaker 58:41 Um, with USADA, probably a lot. Um, I know they have it on the website. You can check how many times people have been tested and whatnot.

Joe Rogan 58:48 So it's just random. Now imagine if they did random, random weigh-ins.

Speaker 58:53 That'd be cool.

Joe Rogan 58:54 Yeah, but the, then the problem would be what happens the day of the fight?

Speaker 58:57 That's the-

Joe Rogan 58:58 You know, like, what do you, what if the guy doesn't make weight?

Speaker 59:00 You back it to square one.

Joe Rogan 59:01 What if... Yeah. What if you have a giant pay-per-view or a giant numbered card... Is that dead?

Speaker 59:05 I don't know what that say.

Joe Rogan 59:07 You have a giant numbered card, and the guy doesn't cut weight, or doesn't, doesn't make weight. What do you do? Do you still have the fight?

Speaker 59:14 I mean, we have the fight now.

Joe Rogan 59:15 Yeah.

Speaker 59:16 So, like-

Joe Rogan 59:17 But I mean-

Speaker 59:17 What changes?

Joe Rogan 59:18 It would be different if you o- only had a f- cut a few pounds, though. Like, if it's... So if you did it that way, random weigh-ins and then weigh-in day of the fight, w- even if a guy was heavy, like you've weighed in, you know, 137 or whatever, you're like, "Well, you gotta lose two pounds," anybody can lose two pounds the day of, and it's not that big a deal-

Speaker 59:37 Yeah

Joe Rogan 59:38 ... if you're not cutting weight already.

Speaker 59:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:40 If you're not cutting weight already and you're fully hy- hydrated and you weigh in the scale at 137, 135 is easy.

Speaker 59:46 Or just penalize them the same way we penalize them now.

Joe Rogan 59:49 Yeah, but a guy's just gonna take the penalty and fight bigger-

Speaker 59:51 But it's like you're already-

Joe Rogan 59:52 ... and fight heavier

Speaker 59:53 ... you're... Like, for me, if we did same-day weigh-ins, I would have to fight at 155 pounds. There's no way. Po- possibly even 170, because that's the weight class. 165 would be the sweet spot where it's like, this is nice. I don't have to cut.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 Right.

Speaker 1:00:08 I'm probably gonna fight guys more than likely my size, and, uh, I'm gonna feel good. I'm gonna have the energy to compete, and I'm not dehydrating myself severely. Or 155, where I could diet a little bit. I could still get down. I hold myself for a meal, step on the scale. I can have my meal. Now I feel good. I go compete, but I'm not dieting all the way down to 135 pounds, 145 pounds.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Right.

Speaker 1:00:30 So that's a 10-pound gap. You, you see what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:00:33 So that's why I think the same day, it makes sense, 'cause you're not as depleted, where it wouldn't be as severe in comparison to what we're doing now.

Joe Rogan 1:00:42 I think that would be smart, but I think the only way that's really gonna happen is if you have more weight classes, like, at least every 10 pounds. I mean, look at boxing. Boxing has so many more weight classes than the UFC. Like, how many weight classes are there in boxing?

Speaker 1:00:55 Too many. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 There's a lot. There's a lot.

Speaker 1:00:57 It's like every three pounds sometimes.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Well, the, at the lighter weights, right? When you get down to, like, atomweight and strawweight and flyweight, like, th- their flyweights are fucking tiny, you know? Like, their bantamweight is what? It's not 135.

Speaker 1:01:12 It's like, it's not... It's lower.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Yeah, it's like 126 or something. What's bantamweight? 118.

Speaker 1:01:17 118.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 That's crazy Minimum weight. That's crazy. Im- imagine telling a lady that in the bar. "What do you do?" "I fight."

Speaker 1:01:24 135 is a lightweight.

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 "What weight do you fight at?" "Minimum weight." [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:29 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 "I never even heard of that."

Speaker 1:01:30 Minimum weight is crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Yeah. I mean, but this is also why Manny Pacquiao was able to go up and win world championships in eight different weight classes, which is fucking bananas. But-

Speaker 1:01:41 It's cool, though.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 It's crazy. But, so go back to that again, please. So, look at the difference in the gaps when you get to the top. You got 122 to 126, only four pounds. 130, another six pounds. 35, another five pounds. It's kinda random. Five more pounds to 40. Fi- seven pounds to welterweight, 47. That's another stupid thing that we do, where we have, uh, you have welterweight in boxing, which has existed f- since the beginning of time, and it's always been 147. Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, all those people, Roberto Duran, 147.

Speaker 1:02:20 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 Our welterweight, 170. Like, it doesn't even make any sense.

Speaker 1:02:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Come up with another name.

Speaker 1:02:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:25 What's a welterweight? You just... It's something somebody made up. Doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 1:02:29 I just think we're, we're like the Americans versus the Europeans. We just wanna go against the grain. Like, we have inches instead of centimeters, like, what we use. And metrics, and pounds versus kilos.

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:02:42 Like, we just, we just said, "Fuck everything you're doing. We're gonna do everything different." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 It's-

Speaker 1:02:46 "We're just gonna challenge everything that you're doing."

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 There's a little of that, too, but I think they just wanted recognizable names when they came up with weight classes. 'Cause remember, there was only two at one point in time.

Speaker 1:02:57 Was it lightweight and...

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 I don't remember. But when, when Frank Shamrock was fighting in his day, it was like 200.

Speaker 1:03:05 He was in lightweight. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 He fought at 200. And then there was, uh, heavyweight.

Speaker 1:03:11 So I, yeah, I don't even know. I don't know what those weight cla- I used to watch, but I didn't know shit. I just watched.

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 I think it should just be the number you weigh. It should be fighting the world champion at 170 pounds. That's what it should be. Like, wrestling doesn't have names for the weight classes.

Speaker 1:03:27 No.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 You just have weights.

Speaker 1:03:28 We don't. We don't.

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 Just have weights. That's what it should be. Like, this is stupid. The fuck is a welterweight?

Speaker 1:03:34 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 What the fuck is a strawweight? What's an atomweight?

Speaker 1:03:36 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 You know? Shut up.

Speaker 1:03:37 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 What's a flyweight? Fuck off.

Speaker 1:03:40 Yeah, it's very-

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 You know? You don't weigh with a flyweight. This is stupid. Flyweight's a dumb name.

Speaker 1:03:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 On the 125 pound champion of the world.

Speaker 1:03:48 Minimum weight is a ridiculous name.

Joe Rogan 1:03:51 Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Nobody wants to be minimum weight.

Speaker 1:03:53 Mi-

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 I'd rather fight fat. [laughs]

Speaker 1:03:55 [laughs] Minimum weight. I never even knew that was a thing until just now.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 Yeah, it's probably tiny little dudes. There's a few dudes that fight in, uh, atomweight in, uh, ONE FC, in their kickboxing division, that are wild, man. It's incredible to watch. They're so fast. It's like they're defying space and time, you know? And they're super skillful.

Speaker 1:04:18 Yeah. There's, there's the one guy I saw, the Japanese fighter. No, not Japanese fighter. The guy doing Muay Thai, the, um... Well, there is a Japanese fighter, the guy in Rizin, who fought, uh, Patchy Mix. Bro.

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 Oh, yeah, dude. That dude's a beast.

Speaker 1:04:33 What the fuck was that?

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 That dude was a beast.

Speaker 1:04:35 I was like, "This guy's been hiding over here the whole time, and the world doesn't know who this man is. This guy is a savage."

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 Yeah. He, he lit Patchy on fire.

Speaker 1:04:44 And-

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 That was incredible

Speaker 1:04:44 ... Patchy's not a striker.

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 No.

Speaker 1:04:46 But he's competent enough.

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Yeah.

Speaker 1:04:49 But that was like, he exposed, like, everything, every flaw that he has. As a stand-up guy, he took full advantage of it. And I was like, "Dude, this guy's fighting like he's in the Matrix right now."

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 There's a bunch of those guys-

Speaker 1:04:59 It's tough

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 ... that exist out there in the world now, you know? It's, it's a different world that we live in.

Speaker 1:05:04 The Dagestan guy I think is... That guy.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 There's a lot of 'em.

Speaker 1:05:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:07 There's a lot of 'em. There's the, the guy who fights in the PFL, Magomedov, uh, who's fucking nasty, man. And he fights exactly like the guy who I think might be the best striker in the world, who's just a Muay Thai guy, Azudulla Imangaziev.

Speaker 1:05:21 I think that's the guy.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Yeah.

Speaker 1:05:23 I can't say that.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 Bro.

Speaker 1:05:24 [laughs] I can't, I can't say that.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 It's a tough one to say. Um, that guy's nasty. But this, this guy, Magomedov, did you see the PFL?

Speaker 1:05:32 I didn't get to watch it, uh, last weekend.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 He fought, uh, in the PFL, and he fights just like Imangaziev, and they're both from Dagestan. So, guarantee you these guys are training together.

Speaker 1:05:42 That was the one last weekend, right?

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1:05:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 Yeah.

Speaker 1:05:45 We had one guy on that card, his name is Levon. He's nasty. From, uh, Ossetia? The m- Caucus regions.

Joe Rogan 1:05:53 Mm.

Speaker 1:05:53 Um, but he's, he's a nasty striker. The guy's a ninja.

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 There's so many of those guys right now that are coming up that no one knows, and they're world-class. They're, like, elite, world-class fighters, and no one knows who they are. It's kind of crazy.

Speaker 1:06:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 It's like the a- amount of, like, world championship caliber potential, world championship caliber fighters out there, never been higher.

Speaker 1:06:15 Imagine talking shit to that guy. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 [laughs]

Speaker 1:06:19 All because you didn't know who he was, and he just like, "Ah."

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 It's a problem out there in the world right now. There's so many guys who can fight, as opposed to-

Speaker 1:06:26 Just be nice. Just be nice.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 Just be nice.

Speaker 1:06:28 Don't talk shit.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 Yeah.

Speaker 1:06:30 Don't talk shit, everything will be okay. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 Yeah. I mean, how hard is it?

Speaker 1:06:32 Totally.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 So, tell me what you think about this weekend, Islam versus Ian Garry.

Speaker 1:06:38 So, what's fascinating about this matchup is how well Ian Garry can control the range. I think he's gonna be much bigger than Islam in the sense of height, reach advantage.

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 Oh, for sure.

Speaker 1:06:54 Um, in terms of size, I never thought Ian was the biggest welterweight. I still don't think he is.

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 Well, he can't be. He's so tall, he can't be thick.

Speaker 1:07:00 No, but in the sense, even when, you're talking just from a weight standpoint, from what he was walking around at.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 Right.

Speaker 1:07:06 I forgot what he told me he walked around at, but it wasn't cutting a whole lot of weight.

Joe Rogan 1:07:09 No.

Speaker 1:07:10 I, I wanna say off the top of my head, maybe 10 pounds.

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 Which is why he's so healthy.

Speaker 1:07:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:14 And he has such energy.

Speaker 1:07:15 So I go, "You're cutting just this, and you're going out there and doing this to these guys?" Who are, you know, essentially bigger, heavier guys. Um, but he's got the speed advantage. Uh, the thing about Islam, he's such a complete fighter. He could do everything, but this will be the first time he's got a, a test With a guy who's a long man, and can he get inside, take him down? I don't think he's gonna stand up and strike with him. He can, but I just don't think that's the path to victory against a guy like Ian.

Joe Rogan 1:07:43 I don't think he has any plans of standing up and striking with him other than as a means to an end.

Speaker 1:07:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:48 And, and his grappling is so high level. His, I- I- Islam's grappling right now is at the top of the food chain.

Speaker 1:07:55 I always wanted to grapple with those guys, just to see where I'm at.

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 You should go over there.

Speaker 1:08:00 Um, I remember when Al fought Khabib, and Al might've been, like, the only guy who was able to, like, escape certain positions multiple times, where most guys, they kinda just concede defeat and they just fold.

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:08:14 Um, and we were talking afterwards. He goes like, "I think you would actually do really well grappling with him." I'm like, "Brother, you're trying to get me killed right now." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 [laughs]

Speaker 1:08:26 "You're trying to get me killed by the bear." But, um, whenever he, when he said that, it kinda stuck with me. I'm like, man, I... Just from my own, like, experience, not like a ego thing or anything like that, just be cool to see. And I would like for them to put it on me, just so I can see, like, where I'm at, see if I'm tr- how my strength measures up with theirs positionally. Um, IQ, knowing when to transition to certain spots. Of course, the weight's gonna play a big advantage, but it's still cool 'cause I grapple with bigger guys. I've grappled with Weidman, and I always tell Chris, like, "I wish we were the same size 'cause you would've been my main training partner, bro."

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 [laughs]

Speaker 1:08:57 You know? 'Cause-

Joe Rogan 1:08:58 Yeah

Speaker 1:08:58 ... that would've been cool, like, kinda coming up that way. Um, but you know, obviously Merab was my guy, Al was my guy, Dennis.

Joe Rogan 1:09:05 Well, having Merab as a training partner must've been an awesome advantage.

Speaker 1:09:09 Oh, it was the greatest. There's this, like, there's no, there's no replicating that, and I see guys outside of... Like, they'll watch, and they'll think like, "You know, eh, he's kinda, like, all over the place. He's not really..." And then they'll go in there with him and go, "Ah, yeah, feels a little different now" [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 [laughs]

Speaker 1:09:30 "... now that you've been in there with the guy." It's, it's a whole different beast to watch from the outside. You're like, "What is he actually good at?" But it's just, like, the chaos that he brings, always constantly challenging your nervous system, uh, reacting to his feints, his movement. He's just, he's just always giving you something to think about, and I remember GSP talked about that, just saying, like, you wanna use your feints to challenge the nervous system, get guys to react. Because eventually you start to slow... Like, in the beginning, we're, we, we're quick twitchy, right? We can react to everything. We're super sharp. As time starts to go on, those reaction times starts to go a little bit slower.

Joe Rogan 1:10:04 Yeah.

Speaker 1:10:04 You don't react as fast or as quickly, and things that were landing, weren't landing are now landing.

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 Firas talks about that a lot.

Speaker 1:10:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:13 I think that's where George got it.

Speaker 1:10:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:10:15 Firas, very smart dude.

Speaker 1:10:17 So-

Joe Rogan 1:10:18 Very smart dude when it comes to, like, strategy and understanding, like, what's going on with fighters and why they're reacting to certain things and w- what to do and how to counter. It's not guesswork. It's, like, a ver- a really intelligent, structured system of what to do.

Speaker 1:10:36 Yeah. You have to be like that.

Joe Rogan 1:10:38 Yeah.

Speaker 1:10:38 I think some guys, they train and then they go and fight without any goal in mind, and I try to preach this, 'cause I used to coach at Longo's a lot before, um, you know, running a lot of my own practices, training camps, and stuff like that. So I took over the, the role of, you know what? We're gonna add these two MMA classes in, and when we come in, we're gonna work on specific things for my fight, and anybody who has a fight. And if I'm not fighting, we're gonna focus on you guys. And even if I have a fight, we'll also work in positions that you guys need to work on. And I always try to explain to guys, like, when you're coming in, you should have a mission. Don't just waste an hour, hour and a half of training just to say, "I trained." That's cool if you don't have a fight, but you should always be looking for something to get better at, something that you can improve at. When you're sparring, A, you, you're not just going in there to spar. There should be an intent. Your sparring partner should be looking to give you a look for the fight, and you shouldn't be looking to be a complete asshole and kill your sparring partner because then nobody wants to spar with you, right? They're doing you a favor, and you need the favor from them to get where you wanna be to make sure all the things that you're drilling on the pads, drilling with your partners one-on-one. And then when you go into sparring and you're putting it together, pull up from 100%, pull it down to, like, 70. This way you can work in real time. I call it guided discovery. I learned this at, uh, SUNY Cortland when I was studying to be a PE major. I did-

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 Guided discovery.

Speaker 1:11:58 Yeah. So you're, you're working on certain things and, um, say we're doing wrestling, and you're learning the position. I show you a high crotch. You grab the, the, the tricep, or you post it. You shoot the high crotch, which means your head is on the outside, and I attack the leg. Two hands are now locked on that outside leg. My head is on the outside, and I'm in a strong position, and my posture's straight, and now you're learning defense. Okay, so from a defensive position, a guy shoots this shot super clean, super perfect. What are my choices that I can make? What are the options? I could turn the head to the inside, stuff the head. I could push the head further to outside and stuff the head to the outside where his head already is and look to cut the corner, or I could use my, stuff the head and use my, my whizzer or tight waist, plugging the, the hip, stuffing the head, and rotating my hips. And if he d- puts me down to the mat, what is my responses from that? So then you're chaining everything together, and you gotta, you kinda got a system of my responses. So I'm not just doing stuff based on instinct. Instinct is good, but you should also have instinctual habits, if that makes sense.

Joe Rogan 1:13:02 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:13:02 Like, stuff that you know will work.

Joe Rogan 1:13:04 Right.

Speaker 1:13:05 And then you fine-tune it to know this is my line of defense. If he goes here and I feel him going this way, I go this way. And if he's starting to turn the other way, then I know I need to do this and turn his head the other way, put my pressure or my weight, um, in another position so that I can now create this space so I can escape and get my leg out.

Joe Rogan 1:13:21 Right.

Speaker 1:13:22 And a lot of guys, they're, they're not trained like that. They go in, they're sparring, they're just throwing a bunch of punches. Maybe they're throwing set combos that they hit on the pads, but how are you setting that up? Are you m- feinting, moving him towards the cage, looking for the, the gap where the octagon kinda changes, where it's no longer, like, a flat surface and it's cutting at an angle where you take away a little real estate? And then you're trapping them where there's not a lot of room for them to get back from, but now you can set up your strikes and know where you're trying to go. But if I'm cutting him off, and he constantly does this, and he maybe juke steps me and goes back the other direction, and I'm starting my combination, now he's gone. So it's like, how do you set up all these things that you know exactly where you wanna go? Because he's gonna have an option in the fight in real time, but in training is where you should be working out the kinks and understanding this. And I, I truly feel this is one of the things I done so well early on in my career and why I was teaching a class, 'cause I felt like the guys needed it. I was taking these guys down at will. There was no resistance. I'm like, "I'm good, but how good am I actually?" Because these guys just, they just don't know. They don't have the information. Okay, let's level them up. Now these guys are leveled up, it makes it harder for me. Now I have to improve what I'm doing, and I have to bring a different approach. Okay, he knows how to do this now, so when I do this, I can't just get a easy takedown where I'm just gonna sit him to his butt. He's now challenging me with the whizzer, stuffing my head, breaking my posture. Now I'm elongated, I'm on the ground, maybe I'm on both knees. How do I readjust, post my hand, get height again, attacking the legs, taking them back the other way, or coming through the middle, through the crotch, and finishing a takedown like what we call, some people call it a Iranian, or we call it a All-American finish. But there's just so many little nuances, and I feel in MMA, th- people are still training just to train. And I think that's the difference between understanding your timing. You know the same moves, but if I know it faster, if I know how to react faster than you, I'm gonna win that position or the situation every single time, unless you throw caution to the wind and then it's just some random wild card that I just get caught by. Which, if I'm aware, it should, the chance of that should be very, very low.

Joe Rogan 1:15:29 Well, that's the benefit of teaching the people that you're training with everything you know. That way, you must come up with a new solution-

Speaker 1:15:35 Not everything

Joe Rogan 1:15:35 ... and you're forcing it.

Speaker 1:15:36 Not everything? Everything? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:38 What do you hold back?

Speaker 1:15:38 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:39 What do you hold back?

Speaker 1:15:40 Not everything. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:42 [laughs] Get close.

Speaker 1:15:44 I can't let you get close.

Joe Rogan 1:15:45 But that's also world champion mindset versus someone who's just a fighter who fights and does well and is a good fighter. But there's so many times where I watch guys fight and, um, I watch exchanges, and they're wading towards each other and throwing bombs at each other, and one guy wins and one guy loses. But I'm like, "This is not the ultimate way to do this." This is a, you can do it. You can be a, a battering ram and a blunt force object, and you can get it done. You know, like, we've seen so many fights that have just been insane first-round wars.

Speaker 1:16:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:16:16 And then we've seen guys that just are slick, and they're moving around and switching stances and doing wild shit that you don't expect and overwhelming the, the other guy's nervous system and, and not getting hit and, and doing things where you're like, "Oh my God, that's so sweet. That's so smooth." And those are the guys that are gonna excel, and those are the guys that are gonna really take it to the next level.

Speaker 1:16:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:38 And I think when you're talking about all these guys, like the Caucus guys, these Dagestani guys, these, so many guys that are coming up right now that are so fucking high level, like, y- you can't have any flaws in your game anymore. You can't just be a guy who wades at someone and tries to throw bombs and hopes they land. I mean, may- maybe that works on a regional scene. Maybe that works with training partners that are a lower level than you. But you're gonna get pieced up if you fight someone who's really good. F- it, there's levels and levels and levels, and the levels are changing all the time. The levels are moving up all the time. If you just go back to the Ultimate Fighter Season 1, that's 2005. That's not that long ago in regular sports. 2005 boxers look pretty similar to 2026 boxers.

Speaker 1:17:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:24 You know? Pretty fucking similar at the world championship level. In MMA, man, there's no comparison. It's nuts.

Speaker 1:17:30 Night and day.

Joe Rogan 1:17:31 Night and day, and these guys are getting better all the time. I see guys coming off the Contender Series, I'm like, "Okay, this guy looks like a world champion, like right now."

Speaker 1:17:40 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:17:41 That Ethan Ewing kid, that guy comes out of nowhere.

Speaker 1:17:45 Matrix.

Joe Rogan 1:17:46 A- and, and he's fighting so smooth and so slick and so intelligent, and the footwork and the feints and the movement and knowing what to do at any given time. And you're like, "These guys are just so good now. They're so good."

Speaker 1:18:00 I was bummed out when he got hurt for that fight with, uh, Farah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:03 Yeah. That was a bummer. That was a bummer.

Speaker 1:18:04 Farah did have a tough fight, though.

Joe Rogan 1:18:05 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:18:06 But I was curious to see how that one was gonna go, because Ian, to me, is the dark horse in that division right now.

Joe Rogan 1:18:12 Ethan. Yeah. Ethan is.

Speaker 1:18:13 Easily.

Joe Rogan 1:18:13 Yeah.

Speaker 1:18:14 Um-

Joe Rogan 1:18:15 Yeah, he's, the Wellmaker fight was a big wake-up call to people, and then he fought that Brazilian cat and just lit him on fire.

Speaker 1:18:21 Two undefeated guys back to back.

Joe Rogan 1:18:23 And it's the way he did it, too, man. It was so slick. And you realize, like, there are levels, and these guys coming up right now, they're already at a level that's above and beyond world championship level of 15 years ago.

Speaker 1:18:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:36 It's crazy.

Speaker 1:18:37 It's, it's really amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:18:37 Two fights in the UFC, and, you know, 20 years ago, you would've said he was the GOAT.

Speaker 1:18:43 But it, it, what's fascinating is, like, from a striking standpoint, you could see that and look at a guy and go, "This guy is the real deal." But then you kind of wonder, like, well, what happens later in the rounds if a guy does take him down, and how can he adjust to those takedowns in terms of a cardio standpoint, lactic acid buildup? Can he turn it around and still be as efficient, as effective?

Joe Rogan 1:19:04 Right.

Speaker 1:19:05 So there's so many, like, variables when it comes to things like that. And when people are game planning and approaching fights, those are the things I like to think about. First round, everyone is dangerous. Everyone is so skilled, but it's like, okay, if I can get out of the first round, what does the fight start to look like?

Joe Rogan 1:19:21 Right.

Speaker 1:19:21 How do I paint the picture? If it goes in this direction, he's able to get off a couple of these things, and I'm beaten up a little bit, what are my, what are my fallback defenses to try to turn the tide a little bit and get it back to going where the ball's now back in my court?

Joe Rogan 1:19:36 Well, that was why I was so interested in seeing what happens in the Conor McGregor-Max Holloway fight. Which was crazy that, that the, the result was ridiculous. But take that away, um, I was interested because I was like, if Conor can't take him out quickly, Max Holloway does not get tired. He does not get tired, and he's so accustomed to that five-round pace. He understands when to hit the gas, when to back off. He knows when to move, when to... And he's always moving and s- side... It's like, y- you wanna talk about getting overwhelmed, like Max Holloway overwhelms people with pressure, pace, and feints, and skill.

Speaker 1:20:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:19 And he's not going anywhere. You, you guarantee he's gonna be fighting in the fourth round just like he was fighting in the first round. He's not gonna fade.

Speaker 1:20:28 Eh, it's, uh, that was-

Joe Rogan 1:20:29 It was wor- it wa- one of the worst match-ups for Conor if he couldn't take him out of the first round.

Speaker 1:20:35 I was, I was hoping we got to see more. I think the world was hoping to see more.

Joe Rogan 1:20:39 Well, you were hoping we got to see anything. We didn't see anything.

Speaker 1:20:43 But it's, it's crazy 'cause he threw that same kick in the back room, but this time he runs at him and he throws it and he lands, and it's like, aw, come on.

Joe Rogan 1:20:49 Well, he threw that kick. When you're hitting a pad is very different than when you're kicking the air. You never throw that kick in the air. You throw that kick jumping in the air, the amount of torque that is on your supporting leg is bananas. You're just hoping and praying that your knee stays together. Y- y- look, if you throw a jumping side kick, that's a different thing. You're landing on the ground.

Speaker 1:21:12 In the street.

Joe Rogan 1:21:12 You're landing in a linear way. You, right? When you're rotating and kicking and flying through the air at the same time, and your opponent adjusts, so you're trying to, like, change the arc in, in midair, try to catch him as he's circling off, [sighs] it's the worst kick to jump and throw.

Speaker 1:21:28 So I gotta stop doing that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:21:30 What, jumping roundhouse kicks? Jumping roundhouse kicks are great if you're close enough to land them.

Speaker 1:21:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:35 You know? If you're close enough to land them. Who was that guy that landed it on Bonfim? Uh, no, not on Bonfim. On, um, on James Vick in Karate Combat. Did you see that?

Speaker 1:21:47 Um-

Joe Rogan 1:21:47 He throws that jumping switch kick

Speaker 1:21:49 ... Brazilian, Brazilian guy?

Joe Rogan 1:21:50 Yes. Yes.

Speaker 1:21:52 I forget his name.

Joe Rogan 1:21:53 Uh-

Speaker 1:21:54 Gabriel?

Joe Rogan 1:21:54 The Turn, what is his name? Alves. R- Rafael Alves.

Speaker 1:21:57 Rafael. I was close.

Joe Rogan 1:21:58 Bro, it was one of the worst KOs I've ever seen in my life. You've seen that one, right?

Speaker 1:22:02 But why is James Vick still fighting?

Joe Rogan 1:22:04 I, he likes fighting, I guess.

Speaker 1:22:06 Oh, he's only 37. I'm 37. My bad, bro.

Joe Rogan 1:22:08 He's had a lot of KOs.

Speaker 1:22:09 My bad, cuz.

Joe Rogan 1:22:10 Unfortunately. And this dude, he hit him with this, this jumping just right before that.

Speaker 1:22:16 But he looks like a tank compared to him.

Joe Rogan 1:22:18 Well, it's just the speed.

Speaker 1:22:19 The height. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:22:19 His speed is crazy. James Vick is tall, and very skillful, too, but it's just this kick woulda knocked him out at any point in his career. Any point in his career, and any human being. Like, this is too much. Just the, the amount of force that he lands when he lands this kick, when he throws that, he throws the jumping roundhouse kick, touches him with the right leg, and then comes up top with the left, and just clean across the chin.

Speaker 1:22:46 They're doing some good stuff at Karate Combat.

Joe Rogan 1:22:48 Yeah, man.

Speaker 1:22:48 It's fun.

Joe Rogan 1:22:49 Well, Robelis was fighting there right before that, Jamie.

Speaker 1:22:52 I think he had a combined-

Joe Rogan 1:22:52 A little further ahead. Go to, like, right below it, before where the Brazilian flag is.

Speaker 1:22:58 Robelis' combined fights in, um, Karate Combat was, like, what? Less than two minutes of-

Joe Rogan 1:23:03 I know. It just... There it is. There it is. So let's watch that again. Back it up again. So watch how he throws it. Boom. I mean, it is clean shin to the jaw.

Speaker 1:23:12 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:23:12 I mean, there's no deep-

Speaker 1:23:14 Why is he pointing at him? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:15 He, he, I don't know, he was upset.

Speaker 1:23:16 Was he talking shit? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:18 I'm not so sure.

Speaker 1:23:18 And now he's, now he's bowing and praying. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:19 Well, I mean, he realized after it was over how serious it was, so watch this. Touches him with the right, and then the left comes.

Speaker 1:23:25 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:23:25 I mean, it's literally perfect. That probably woulda KO'd him at any point in time in his career, and when James has been in the amount of wars that he's been in.

Speaker 1:23:34 Ooh. And then your head hits the canvas is the worst part.

Joe Rogan 1:23:37 Oh, he was, he coulda died. That was one of those ones where he coulda died. 'Cause I think he was in the intensive care for quite a while after this fight.

Speaker 1:23:46 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:23:46 Yeah, he was hospitalized for quite a while after this fight, and I think it was pretty s- pretty serious.

Speaker 1:23:51 That sucks.

Joe Rogan 1:23:51 It was a bad head kick.

Speaker 1:23:53 It's a-

Joe Rogan 1:23:53 That was a bad one

Speaker 1:23:53 ... it's a rough sport.

Joe Rogan 1:23:54 It's a rough sport. And there's times-

Speaker 1:23:56 You don't play fighting. You don't play. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:58 There's times where guys get KO'd and they're never the same again. You know, like Terry Etim, when Edson Barboza hit him with that wheel kick.

Speaker 1:24:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:24:05 Terry Etim was a real contender before that fight, and we never really saw him after that. He never really achieved those levels again.

Speaker 1:24:12 I don't even... Did he even fight after that? I don't... Maybe once?

Joe Rogan 1:24:15 Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I'm not sure. But that fight essentially ended his career 'cause it was so... I mean, and again, that's one of those kicks. The, the wheel kick has so much torque.

Speaker 1:24:26 Bro, I, I remember my fight with Marlon and I thought I was gonna be one of those guys. I was so, like, I don't wanna say paranoid, but nervous, concerned, any adjective that you could use to describe it. I was just like, man.

Joe Rogan 1:24:42 After the fight?

Speaker 1:24:43 After the fight.

Joe Rogan 1:24:44 Of getting hit like that again?

Speaker 1:24:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:24:45 Yeah.

Speaker 1:24:46 But not even getting hit like that again, if I could even take a shot. And mind you, I, I had my phys ed degree. I coulda went and just been a gym teacher.

Joe Rogan 1:24:55 [laughs]

Speaker 1:24:55 I woulda been, summers off, pension. I woulda had health insurance, [laughs] the whole nine. And I, I decided to chase a crazy dream. Thankfully, it worked out and, um, I'm blessed for this life and, um, all that good stuff. But after that fight, man, to tell you, like, the concern I had if I would be able to make another two paychecks. I was like, "I'm gonna do one more. Whatever happens, happens. If I get knocked out, I'm just done. I gave it a good shot. I've rolled the dice. Thanks for coming. See you later. Thanks for the memories." But, um, thankfully it worked out and I was able to keep on pushing. I remember after that fight I didn't spar for, like, three months, and the next fight I had with Greg-

Joe Rogan 1:25:34 A lot of people think you should take even more time off than that

Speaker 1:25:37 ... I needed the money, and that's the shitty part about this, this gig.

Joe Rogan 1:25:41 Right. [laughs]

Speaker 1:25:41 It's, [laughs] you need the money, you need the money. I'm, I'm living in New York at the time, so Long Island's Fucking expensive. And I'm subbing as a teacher, I'm coaching wrestling, and when the training camp came up, I was fighting Brett Johns, undefeated, three-and-oh in the UFC, just came off a 30-second cast sli- slicer submission over Joe Soto. Mind you, Joe Soto submitted me probably f- I think five times in five minutes. So I'm looking at this guy like, "This guy is a wizard," you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:26:09 Right.

Speaker 1:26:09 So this is my perception of him going into this fight, and I told the guys, "Hey, I'm gonna spar these last three, four weeks. I'm gonna tr- I'm gonna just circle, and I'm gonna wrestle." I was like, "You guys try to hit me, but just know, I'm, I don't wanna get hit in the head. But try to hit me. I, I still wanna have, like, my awareness." But the whole, that whole last three, four weeks, everything was just grappling before that, striking, hitting pads, cardio. I was like, "I'm gonna just use my footwork and whatever I could do." And thankfully, it worked out.

Joe Rogan 1:26:37 How much time between the Marlon fight and that fight was there?

Speaker 1:26:39 April. December 9th, 2017.

Joe Rogan 1:26:43 So it was four months?

Speaker 1:26:44 Just about, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:45 Wow.

Speaker 1:26:46 Which was scary. It was scary. And they offered me the fight, I was like, "I don't know if I'm supposed to be doing this right now, but I, I kinda need the money, so..."

Joe Rogan 1:26:55 Well, you needed the money, but, uh, if I could've given advice to, like, Volkanovski, I woulda said, first of all, I woulda said never take a fight with Islam Makhachev on 11 days notice. That's just crazy.

Speaker 1:27:07 Never.

Joe Rogan 1:27:07 Especially when you're not training at all. You're just kinda chilling, and you take a fight with one of the best pound for pound fighters, if not the best, on the, on the planet, and you get head kicked. And then to fight Ilia just a few months after that is kinda crazy.

Speaker 1:27:23 Yeah. And he, he was looking good in that first round until Ilia does what he does, traps you against that black line against the cage, and he puts those combinations on you and puts the lights out. And yeah, I, I agree. He should've taken more time.

Joe Rogan 1:27:38 100%.

Speaker 1:27:38 He would've been okay with taking more time and-

Joe Rogan 1:27:40 You've gotta take more time. You have to. You just have to realize that as tough as you are, your body is a machine, and if the machine's broken, it's gotta be repaired, and it's gonna take time to repair. It's not as simple as, like, you go to the shop, you get a new carburetor, you're good to go. You gotta, you gotta give your body time to, to heal. And the, with the head, it's hard, 'cause you don't know.

Speaker 1:28:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:01 You don't-

Speaker 1:28:02 It's the wi- it's the wild card.

Joe Rogan 1:28:03 Yeah, it's the wild card.

Speaker 1:28:03 It's like you're... And everyone is different.

Joe Rogan 1:28:05 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:28:06 And I kinda wonder if that's something to do with, like, the way people grow up, if maybe they dropped them on their head a couple times when they were kids. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:28:13 Well, sure. Football, play football in high school, get-

Speaker 1:28:16 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:28:16 ... KO'd a few times doing that. You know, you get KO'd a few times doing stupid shit with your friends.

Speaker 1:28:22 And then you get older, and now you're trying to compete, and you realize, "I can't take a shot-"

Joe Rogan 1:28:26 Your chin's gone. Yeah

Speaker 1:28:26 ... as much as I thought I could've. And, like, you see a guy like Diego Lopez and you're like, dude, you gotta f... His, his chin is granite, bro. It's like, what can you hit him with that can actually put him down? It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:28:38 Well, if he continues getting hit, there'll be a time, right?

Speaker 1:28:42 For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:28:42 Like, you remember Chuck Liddell?

Speaker 1:28:44 For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:28:44 Chuck Liddell in the early days was bulletproof. He was bulletproof. He would just wade at guys, bite down on his mouthpiece, eat shots to the head, and take guys out. And he didn't give a fuck. His, he had full confidence in his chin, and would force guys into these chaotic wars. And then it comes a time-

Speaker 1:29:00 And then it goes away

Joe Rogan 1:29:01 ... and then one day, you get hit and it just goes.

Speaker 1:29:05 Well, left hand, broken hand from Rich Franklin that hit Chuck.

Joe Rogan 1:29:10 Well, yeah. B- he broke Rich's arm, right?

Speaker 1:29:13 Yeah. And then, yeah, and with that-

Joe Rogan 1:29:14 I think he-

Speaker 1:29:14 ... broken hand, he hit him

Joe Rogan 1:29:15 ... is that what he knocked him out with?

Speaker 1:29:16 I, I-

Joe Rogan 1:29:16 The broken arm?

Speaker 1:29:17 From what I remember, that's what he hit him with, that left hand, and put him out, and I was like

Joe Rogan 1:29:20 That was... He was done at that point.

Speaker 1:29:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:23 His chin was done. I mean, after Rampage KO, KO'd him, that was kind of, that was the big one.

Speaker 1:29:28 That was a nasty one.

Joe Rogan 1:29:29 That was a nasty one, yeah.

Speaker 1:29:31 I always wanted to be like the mini Rampage, but I was like, but I'm not knocking anybody out, so it's, uh, [laughs] it's hard to do that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:29:38 Rampage could crack.

Speaker 1:29:39 With the chain and the wolf.

Joe Rogan 1:29:41 Yeah.

Speaker 1:29:41 Howl. [laughs] Always wanted to do that.

Joe Rogan 1:29:44 And Rampage did it all natural, whereas everybody else was doing juice.

Speaker 1:29:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:48 Especially in Pride. You know, he was fighting all juice monsters. Everyone was a juice monster in Pride.

Speaker 1:29:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:54 You know?

Speaker 1:29:55 It's a different time back then.

Joe Rogan 1:29:56 He still has the craziest slam KO of all time, of all time.

Speaker 1:30:00 Arona, right?

Joe Rogan 1:30:01 Yep. When Arona didn't let go of the triangle.

Speaker 1:30:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:04 And he takes him over the top of his head like a pillow-

Speaker 1:30:07 And boom

Joe Rogan 1:30:07 ... and slams him down. Oh my God. That was another one. R- Arona was never the same again after that fight.

Speaker 1:30:13 What about Cyborg and that knee from MVP?

Joe Rogan 1:30:16 Whoa, that was the craziest.

Speaker 1:30:17 Freaking dented his cranium.

Joe Rogan 1:30:19 Crushed his skull. Literally crushed his skull. Broke his skull open.

Speaker 1:30:24 So [laughs] this is gonna sound like a joke, but I, [laughs] I go like, what do you do, plunge it to pull it back? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:30:30 You gotta reconstruct it. You ever see what they did to it?

Speaker 1:30:33 No.

Joe Rogan 1:30:33 They put all these plates in his head. Yeah, he had all sorts of screws and plates and everything to piece his head back together again, 'cause his skull structure's been compromised.

Speaker 1:30:42 What does it do to your brain? Your brain is now squished.

Joe Rogan 1:30:45 Not good. Not good. I mean, he said after the fight, "I'll be back," but everybody's like, "No, you won't. No," that's what it looked like. I mean, that is literally crazy.

Speaker 1:30:55 Yeah, bro.

Joe Rogan 1:30:57 I saw a Muay Thai fight recently online-

Speaker 1:30:59 Fuck

Joe Rogan 1:30:59 ... where a guy did that to a dude with a elbow, and it caved his head in, and you see, like, this giant hole in his forehead where his head's dented in, and the referee's like, "Stop the fight." He's like, "Why are you stopping the fight?" He's like, "Bro."

Speaker 1:31:11 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:31:12 Like, you need to see what you look like.

Speaker 1:31:14 You're not seeing what I'm seeing.

Joe Rogan 1:31:15 Yeah, your head's dented. Your, your head's broken. Like, you have a broken head.

Speaker 1:31:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:21 It's amazing how few times that's happened, if you think about it. Yeah, this is it. This is it. Look at that.

Speaker 1:31:27 Oh, that might be worse than the other one.

Joe Rogan 1:31:29 It's right up there. If you back it up, you can see the elbow the dude lands right there. Boom.

Speaker 1:31:35 That was it.

Joe Rogan 1:31:35 And then he, and then he looks at him. He's like, "Um, hey." And then the referee gets a look at it, and the referee gets a look at it. As soon as the referee sees it...

Speaker 1:31:45 He almost doesn't even wanna hit him again. He's like, "Fuck."

Joe Rogan 1:31:47 Yeah, I mean, it's crazy the-

Speaker 1:31:49 Bro, you should stop

Joe Rogan 1:31:49 ... the, the referee stops and he's like, "Hold on a second. Let me get a look at you."

Speaker 1:31:52 It's like, "You should stop, devil, my friend."

Joe Rogan 1:31:53 Brings in the doctor, says, "What's going on here?"

Speaker 1:31:56 Oh my-

Joe Rogan 1:31:56 Tomahawked him That was what was so impressive about Zanyaslav, uh, Chanko and his, uh-

Speaker 1:32:06 Oh, um, John Pork?

Joe Rogan 1:32:07 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 1:32:08 [laughs] Why do they call him that?

Joe Rogan 1:32:09 I have no idea. Chanko, they call him Chanko 'cause that's his town. That's the town we grew up in.

Speaker 1:32:14 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:32:14 But, uh, man, that dude's elbows were so slick.

Speaker 1:32:17 He's f-

Joe Rogan 1:32:18 He's slick

Speaker 1:32:19 ... he's fun to watch.

Joe Rogan 1:32:20 He's slick. His elbows in the clinch and in tight, you know, 'cause he's a Muay Thai world champion, and, you know, that was his original discipline, which is interesting when you see these guys who start off as strikers and then they get to Dagestan training room with Khabib and Islam and all those guys, and they, they learn the wrestling, but they start off with just this elite level of striking.

Speaker 1:32:43 Yeah. And that other guy wasn't bad. He-

Joe Rogan 1:32:46 No

Speaker 1:32:46 ... he gave back some, some resilience, but-

Joe Rogan 1:32:48 Oh yeah, man, he dropped him. Remember?

Speaker 1:32:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:50 Oh, no, that was his first fight. Yeah, no, he didn't drop him this... That was, that was his first fight in the Contender Series. He got dropped. He's a, he's a dangerous guy, man. Super dangerous. Chanko's fucking... He's for real, man. And so high level with his striking. His striking is just so elite, especially those elbows in tight, man.

Speaker 1:33:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:33:09 Elbows are nasty.

Speaker 1:33:11 I, [sighs] I'm like Joe Son, and I can't let you get close. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:33:15 [laughs]

Speaker 1:33:15 I can't let you get close. 'Cause nah, you're not about to do that to me, bro. That, that's, that's... I ain't trying to look like that.

Joe Rogan 1:33:22 Yeah. I know.

Speaker 1:33:23 Like, you know, I, I wanna continue my acting career, and, you know, I got a whole lot of things I wanna do, but [laughs] it's gonna be a little tough if you get a couple of those.

Joe Rogan 1:33:32 Yeah. Well, elbows are... It's kind of funny that your gloves protect your hands-

Speaker 1:33:37 But not knees

Joe Rogan 1:33:37 ... and your knuckles, but not your elbows.

Speaker 1:33:39 Or knees.

Joe Rogan 1:33:39 Or your knees, or your shins. It's kinda nuts that we have the padded thing-

Speaker 1:33:44 True

Joe Rogan 1:33:44 ... is the thing that's the least likely to hurt you, if you really think about it.

Speaker 1:33:48 [sighs] It's a crazy sport.

Joe Rogan 1:33:50 It is the craziest.

Speaker 1:33:51 I love it and hate it sometimes.

Joe Rogan 1:33:53 How much longer you think you're gonna do it? You're 37 now.

Speaker 1:33:56 Yeah, I just turned 37.

Joe Rogan 1:33:57 You must be thinking, you must be thinking, "How much more am I gonna do this for?"

Speaker 1:34:01 Yeah, you know, I'm just taking it one fight at a time. I would like to end my career with the UFC. Um, you know, hopefully I get an op-

Joe Rogan 1:34:10 Do you think there's an option that you might not?

Speaker 1:34:12 I don't know. You know, you never know what's gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 1:34:15 Somebody comes up with a big number?

Speaker 1:34:16 No, not even that. Like, you just never know. Like, I know I sometimes piss off the press from time to time. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:34:22 Do you?

Speaker 1:34:23 I guess. I've been told this.

Joe Rogan 1:34:24 How?

Speaker 1:34:25 That I, sometimes I don't say the right things. I'm, uh, I-

Joe Rogan 1:34:27 What have you said that's the wrong thing?

Speaker 1:34:28 I'm a very honest person, so sometimes I just tell how I really feel about certain things, and people... These media outlets, they know what they're doing. They're asking me these questions 'cause they know I'm gonna tell them the clickbait clips that they want.

Joe Rogan 1:34:41 Who are you talking about specifically?

Speaker 1:34:43 W- Which, which one? The media?

Joe Rogan 1:34:44 The media outlets that fuck with you.

Speaker 1:34:45 All of them.

Joe Rogan 1:34:46 They all try to get you to say-

Speaker 1:34:47 They, they all, all of them. They ask these questions. They'll go from fighter pay, and I've been in the headlines for fighter pay many times. Many, many times.

Joe Rogan 1:34:56 It's a legitimate argument.

Speaker 1:34:57 It is. But for some reason, when I, when I talk about it, I am... And maybe because I'm not the crazy guy like a Sean Strickland, 'cause Strickland's talked about it, and he's always been... He's known as the crazy guy.

Joe Rogan 1:35:09 Yeah.

Speaker 1:35:09 But when he talks about it, it, he makes it a very logical, understanding bit where I go, "How come he's not getting..." Maybe he is. Maybe, I just don't know, 'cause I don't ask. But I'm like, for some reason, when I say it, is I feel like I'm a little bit more scrutinized, I guess.

Joe Rogan 1:35:24 So what, did, did, does the UFC get upset at you? Do they say that they're upset at you? You don't have to talk about this if you don't want to. [laughs]

Speaker 1:35:31 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:35:31 If you feel like this is a real issue, that it's gonna get you in trouble with the-

Speaker 1:35:34 No, I, we, we have a great relationship

Joe Rogan 1:35:36 ... 'cause you're, you're in line. You're, you are... Look, when Ilia and Alexander Hernen, when, when they fight-

Speaker 1:35:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:35:43 ... this is very soon, Volkanovski is defending his title against, finally, Ilia. Like, who-

Speaker 1:35:48 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:35:48 ... that fucking guy has been waiting forever.

Speaker 1:35:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:51 Forever.

Speaker 1:35:51 And everybody's booked, so I don't really know who's the clear-cut guy for me to face, unless it's Lerone Murphy. I was told he was hurt.

Joe Rogan 1:35:57 I think he's booked. I heard Lerone's got a fight.

Speaker 1:36:00 I heard he was hurt.

Joe Rogan 1:36:01 Oh, really?

Speaker 1:36:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:02 Maybe he had a fight scheduled and it doesn't anymore.

Speaker 1:36:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:06 But I thought he has a fight coming up.

Speaker 1:36:09 Yeah, I was told he was hurt, so he's gonna be out for a couple months. I don't know how long. I don't know how serious of an injury. Um, but everybody else is booked, and-

Joe Rogan 1:36:17 Who did he just lose to, Lerone?

Speaker 1:36:19 Mousasi.

Joe Rogan 1:36:20 That's right.

Speaker 1:36:21 Which was crazy. I thought that fight should've been scored a draw.

Joe Rogan 1:36:24 Did you?

Speaker 1:36:24 With the, with the point deduction, should've been scored a draw. Um, but they-

Joe Rogan 1:36:28 What was the point deduction for?

Speaker 1:36:29 Uh, I think it was a low blow. But they gave him, they gave him four rounds. They gave Mousasi four rounds.

Joe Rogan 1:36:36 I'd have to watch it again. I didn't think it was a bad decision when I saw it. I'd have to watch it again, though.

Speaker 1:36:40 It was, it was, it was a competitive fight. Mousasi didn't decide to wrestle him until round, the end of round three.

Joe Rogan 1:36:46 Right.

Speaker 1:36:47 And it just goes to show he could've taken him down any time he wanted. I'm just like, "Fuck it." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:36:50 Well, I think Mousasi wanted, he wanted to show-

Speaker 1:36:52 Show

Joe Rogan 1:36:52 ... his striking.

Speaker 1:36:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:53 'Cause he does have striking.

Speaker 1:36:54 But because of that, he made it, he made it more controversial to the overall fan base because he decided to use his wrestling a lot later on in the fight.

Joe Rogan 1:37:04 Yeah, but I think he needed to show that he's not boring-

Speaker 1:37:07 But-

Joe Rogan 1:37:08 ... in order to get a shot at the title, and now he's got a shot at the title

Speaker 1:37:10 ... but the stand-up fight between rounds one and two was still, like, there's nothing happening.

Joe Rogan 1:37:15 I thought it was pretty good. I thought it was pretty good.

Speaker 1:37:16 It, it's a chess match.

Joe Rogan 1:37:17 It was a chess match, but I think-

Speaker 1:37:18 But it wasn't like, "Oh, my God"

Joe Rogan 1:37:19 ... I think it was, it was opening up Lerone to shots that I don't think he expected were coming at him, because-

Speaker 1:37:25 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:37:25 ... I think he probably anticipated shot, takedowns, takedown attempts.

Speaker 1:37:29 It was-

Joe Rogan 1:37:29 And instead, Mousasi was getting off on him.

Speaker 1:37:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:34 He can strike.

Speaker 1:37:35 He can.

Joe Rogan 1:37:35 But it's like you. It's like, why do it when you're better at grappling? If you can get ahold of him, why do it? Why, why roll the dice? And you know, when people say... Like, like a lot of people were upset when Merab beat Sugar Sean.

Speaker 1:37:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:49 And they were saying like, "That was boring. That was..." It's like, listen, this is the sport we're watching. If a guy like Merab can take you down and give you noogies for five rounds-

Speaker 1:37:59 Hm

Joe Rogan 1:37:59 ... and you can't do shit and you lose your title, that's how it goes You can't say that's boring and he should fight differently, because Sean's gotta come up with a solution. He's gotta figure out how to, to deal with that

Speaker 1:38:13 Styles make fights. It's about the story.

Joe Rogan 1:38:14 Yep.

Speaker 1:38:15 How'd you do against this guy? Islam Makhachev versus Ian Garry, same thing. How does he do with this guy? Conor McGregor versus Khabib Nurmagomedov, same thing about the storyline.

Joe Rogan 1:38:24 Yeah.

Speaker 1:38:24 I mean, Conor was protected his whole UFC run, now he's fighting a good high level grappler, probably arguably, arguably the best grappler from the top position, clinch position-

Joe Rogan 1:38:34 Ever

Speaker 1:38:35 ... um, ever. And it's the storyline. Can Conor McGregor overcome this? Can he land the perfect shot? It's what gets you to buy into it. But if you're gonna be pissed that the machine is gonna come in and your guy can't land the perfect punch, whose fault is that? It's like, but this is why you're watching. You're tuning in. You're not tuning in to watch a, a slaughtering of the lambs. You wanna watch a competitive fight. If you just wanna watch one-sided fights, I don't know, like what do you want?

Joe Rogan 1:39:02 Yeah, I mean, it was one-sided in the, in that he was able to take him down at will. But the als- also the problem was Sean fought that fight with a fucked up hip and really probably shouldn't have been fighting. Like, he had a tear in his hip.

Speaker 1:39:15 Yeah, but we all have stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:39:18 Of course.

Speaker 1:39:18 You know? I went to the fight with Sean injured coming into the fight. He gets injured during the training camp, and then he uses that, "I had a busted rib." I go, "Bro, we all have stuff, but you were in a better position to win this fight than I was coming into the fight." The same thing, when did he tear, hurt his hip? I don't know. But then they fought again and it was worse.

Joe Rogan 1:39:36 It was worse.

Speaker 1:39:37 So-

Joe Rogan 1:39:37 Merab, well, Merab was, like, super confident coming in the second fight-

Speaker 1:39:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:39:41 ... that he was gonna be able to take him down, and then also he had that championship level confidence.

Speaker 1:39:45 Oh, of course.

Joe Rogan 1:39:45 You know?

Speaker 1:39:45 You get that level up.

Joe Rogan 1:39:46 Get that level up.

Speaker 1:39:47 Yeah. So it's, like, it's not knocking Sean, it's not knocking the fans, but it's like, yo, this is the game that we're playing. No one's coming into this... I was talking to the guys at Weighs the World, they're like, "It's fascinating how many of you guys are so beaten up." I'm going down a list of my injuries and everything I got going on. I was like, "I got a MRI for this, I got a MRI for this. This hurting, that's been bothering me for two years. This has been still ongoing." And I still go fight, and you would never think it, but that's just what it is. Like, we gotta do what we gotta do. We're never gonna be 100% going into it.

Joe Rogan 1:40:16 100%.

Speaker 1:40:17 Like all sports.

Joe Rogan 1:40:17 Guys have fought in world championships with blown out knees and won, you know? I mean, when Alex Pereira beat Jiri Prochazka, he had a fucked up knee in the first fight.

Speaker 1:40:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:27 And that's why when you see him get on, on top of him when he's finishing him, he rolls over, like rolls.

Speaker 1:40:32 Ah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:32 Instead of stepping up and standing over, he rolled off of him because his knee was blown out.

Speaker 1:40:37 Carlos Ulberg.

Joe Rogan 1:40:38 Yeah, that was crazy. But that was on Jiri.

Speaker 1:40:41 That was [laughs] such a blunder.

Joe Rogan 1:40:44 Such a blun- well, that's Jiri's craziness where it's not good.

Speaker 1:40:49 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:40:49 Some of Jiri's craziness is great, like when he fought Jamal.

Speaker 1:40:53 Oh, I felt for him so bad.

Joe Rogan 1:40:54 I did, too.

Speaker 1:40:54 'Cause I was just like... It's not like saying I wanted him to win, but I felt for him like, "Damn, bro, you made the biggest mistake that you could have possibly made in a situation like that."

Joe Rogan 1:41:05 It's literally the only thing he can hit you with.

Speaker 1:41:07 [laughs] Fucking hell. And he lands it clean.

Joe Rogan 1:41:09 It's the only thing he can hit you with. He can't, he doesn't have a, a right leg. His right leg is completely gone. But he can still throw that left hook, you know?

Speaker 1:41:18 That's his best punch.

Joe Rogan 1:41:19 [exhales] Lightning.

Speaker 1:41:21 I always tell people, the way he leads that, that, he, uh, just leaves out that lead hand and he's measuring, stiff jab, and then he's stepping back, and he takes that side step pivot, that L step, and then boom. It's just, he's clean with that.

Joe Rogan 1:41:34 That division is on fire right now. How about Navajoe-Sterling?

Speaker 1:41:37 I'm about to say-

Joe Rogan 1:41:37 Woo

Speaker 1:41:38 ... what, what happens with those two guys?

Joe Rogan 1:41:39 Woo. I know, right?

Speaker 1:41:40 They're the same camp, no?

Joe Rogan 1:41:42 I know.

Speaker 1:41:42 He just beat Blachowicz.

Joe Rogan 1:41:43 What happens? And he stopped him.

Speaker 1:41:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:46 That was crazy.

Speaker 1:41:47 Personality.

Joe Rogan 1:41:47 I know. Watching that was extraordinary. I was like, "This kid is something. He's something, man." That right hand was phew. The distance he covered to land that right hand, too.

Speaker 1:41:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:41:57 And Jan's got a chin made out of iron. To take Jan out like that and drop him like that, very, very, very impressive.

Speaker 1:42:04 He's 43 now.

Joe Rogan 1:42:05 Yeah.

Speaker 1:42:06 So it's also... I'm not taking anything away from him, but it's like this was-

Joe Rogan 1:42:09 I think that's how old Glover was when he beat him.

Speaker 1:42:12 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:42:12 I think Glover was, like, 42 when he won the title.

Speaker 1:42:16 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:42:17 He was in his 40s.

Speaker 1:42:18 It's doable.

Joe Rogan 1:42:19 It's doable.

Speaker 1:42:20 It ain't, it ain't easy, but it's doable.

Joe Rogan 1:42:21 Yeah, it's not normal. Nor- I mean, Glover was the boogeyman for six years before he could ever get to the UFC. Everybody had talked about Glover. Like, he was scary-

Speaker 1:42:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:42:29 ... but he was trapped in Brazil. He couldn't, visa issues, he couldn't get a visa to come to America and fight. Um, and during those six years, he might've been the best light heavyweight on the planet.

Speaker 1:42:39 Yeah, I remember you talk... 'Cause when he got signed, he got signed pretty, what is it, like late 20s, maybe 30s?

Joe Rogan 1:42:45 Mm-hmm. I think he was in his 30s.

Speaker 1:42:49 Yeah, and I didn't know about him-

Joe Rogan 1:42:50 Yeah

Speaker 1:42:50 ... till he came over and made that debut, and was it against Fabi, Fabio Maldonado, I think, maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:42:54 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:42:56 But yeah, so sometimes it just goes like that. Even, like, Pereira, he came over so late, started so late I should say, and for him to do what he has done in such a short amount of time is, like, unreal.

Joe Rogan 1:43:06 Unreal. Yeah, pretty extraordinary. How impressed were you with Ciryl Gane, though?

Speaker 1:43:11 Very.

Joe Rogan 1:43:11 [exhales]

Speaker 1:43:13 Very.

Joe Rogan 1:43:13 How many heavyweights can move like that, dude?

Speaker 1:43:15 Zero. And that's the whole thing with the Aspinall fight that I was saying.

Joe Rogan 1:43:19 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:43:19 I was like, "Dude, this guy played basketball." It's a different type of athleticism.

Joe Rogan 1:43:23 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:43:23 Quick twitch muscles, knows how to pivot, fake, hit his jukes. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:43:28 Yeah, it's like plyometrics.

Speaker 1:43:30 Good IQ.

Joe Rogan 1:43:30 Like giant man plyometrics.

Speaker 1:43:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:33 Yeah.

Speaker 1:43:33 And he's great at just holding the range, outside of the eye pokes, but great at holding the range. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:43:39 [laughs] Also, the dude never gets hit.

Speaker 1:43:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:42 When was the last time we saw... I mean, think about it. Gane is fighting in the heavyweight division. He's fighting guys like Tai Tuivasa. He's fighting, you know, these el- elite guys, these big heavyweights, and you never see him get cracked, even against Ngannou.

Speaker 1:43:56 I was about to say, even against Ngannou he did a great job.

Joe Rogan 1:43:57 Didn't get cracked. I mean, that's kind of crazy that he's so good at avoiding getting hit. He's probably, like, the least hit clean heavyweight in the division.

Speaker 1:44:07 I think that fight with Jon Jones Made people think less of him than what he actually is

Joe Rogan 1:44:12 It's just that's how good Jon Jones is

Speaker 1:44:14 Good Jon Jones is. I'm like, "You can't do that"

Joe Rogan 1:44:15 That's how good Jon Jones is

Speaker 1:44:16 You can't do that

Joe Rogan 1:44:17 Yeah

Speaker 1:44:17 It's not the same

Joe Rogan 1:44:18 Especially if Jon gets ahold of your neck. He's gonna finish it. And the way he did it, you know, taking him down like that in the first round and guillotining him, I mean, phenomenal. But it's just, you have to deal with that speed and that movement standing up before you could ever get that to happen, and Jon figured it out. But I think Ciryl has tightened up his takedown defense considerably since that fight

Speaker 1:44:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:44:40 Because I think he realized, like, this is the big hole in his game. I know he brought in a lot of real big wrestlers, but when it comes to kickboxing, when it comes to Muay Thai, he's so hard to fuck with, and he... You... That style's different than everybody else's style

Speaker 1:44:54 He's nasty

Joe Rogan 1:44:55 Light on his feet. He does a weird thing, too, from his si-

Speaker 1:44:59 [mimics punch]

Joe Rogan 1:44:59 Yeah.

Speaker 1:45:00 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:00 That, that front kick

Speaker 1:45:01 See, I be watching

Joe Rogan 1:45:02 That twisting front kick from the front leg

Speaker 1:45:04 It's the way he stands. He stands almost like this bladed-

Joe Rogan 1:45:07 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:45:08 ... but it's, like, not really bladed, but it is, and it allows him to have that dexterity and the flexibility where he could just look like he's throwing a front kick, but he's arcing it-

Joe Rogan 1:45:16 He throws a-

Speaker 1:45:17 ... coming back

Joe Rogan 1:45:17 ... it's a twisting kick

Speaker 1:45:18 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:45:19 There's a kick in TaeKwonDo called a twisting kick, and that's what it's like. It's from this position, you throw it out like that with the ball of the foot.

Speaker 1:45:27 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:45:27 So you're standing completely sideways, and your left, your, your front leg comes up and it twists and goes like that, and that's what he's doing to the body. He's throwing a twisting front kick to the body

Speaker 1:45:38 It's nasty

Joe Rogan 1:45:39 See if you can find it in here. Well, that's his round kick. But it's, it's off of his front leg. He throws it off the front leg, and he throws it completely sideways. And when you get to moving, he's gone.

Speaker 1:45:51 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:52 And then, and also, you might try to, like, overemphasize those movements, and he counters catching you coming in 'cause he's faster than you, and that's what he did to Alex

Speaker 1:46:01 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:46:01 He caught him with that... He caught him with a jab. I mean, that's what he really rocked him with. It was a right jab

Speaker 1:46:05 Alex was big that fight

Joe Rogan 1:46:07 Huge. Yeah

Speaker 1:46:08 His freaking ass. I was like, "Yo, this is, like-"

Joe Rogan 1:46:10 [laughs]

Speaker 1:46:10 "... distracting, bro. You got a fucking badonkadonk that's fucking blo- blocking my vision of the screen right now, Alex"

Joe Rogan 1:46:17 [laughs] Oh. Like, "Move. Turn the other way"

Speaker 1:46:18 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:46:18 It was the worst matchup for Alex to step into heavyweight. A guy who is bigger than him naturally, moves faster than him, is lighter on his feet, and is also an elite striker

Speaker 1:46:30 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:46:30 ... a world championship caliber striker at a heavyweight level. 'Cause, like, you know, Alex has been 185. He's a thinner guy, and he def- definitely put on mass to get up to 250, but that's not necessarily where he was naturally

Speaker 1:46:45 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:46:45 Whereas Ciryl Gane has a natural frame to be at 248

Speaker 1:46:49 And he's more stationary

Joe Rogan 1:46:50 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:46:51 The stationary guys never do so well against the guys who can move very well. It's just-

Joe Rogan 1:46:55 Right

Speaker 1:46:56 ... hard for you to chase him down, track him down to learn the perfect punch. Had a hard time landing his calf kicks, which slows fights down for him and allows him to land that big chama left hook

Joe Rogan 1:47:05 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:47:06 Um, I don't... Uh, even if they were to have a rematch, I don't know what he would have to work on to make that adjustment. That's just a hard fight for him. Stylistically

Joe Rogan 1:47:15 It's always gonna be a hard fight for him because Ciryl Gane's so a- agile. He's so hard to hit

Speaker 1:47:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:47:20 He's never in front of you, unless you caught him, like, maybe through those high kicks right in the beginning

Speaker 1:47:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:47:24 You coulda caught him with something like that and rocked him, and that would've been a different story. But he didn't, you know? And Ciryl's, like, he's great at blocking shit, too. Even if you get to him, his reflexes are excellent

Speaker 1:47:35 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:47:36 And it's just that movement and speed is extraordinary. It would've been very interesting to see what happens if the Aspinall fight didn't end the way it ended

Speaker 1:47:43 [sighs] That was a heartbreaker

Joe Rogan 1:47:45 It was a heartbreaker

Speaker 1:47:45 I got a lot of flack for that 'cause people were saying I should've taken his side, uh, because I got fouled too, and I'm like, I'm not not taking his side. What I'm saying is the only person that knows how bad he truly, like, was hurt is gonna be Aspinall

Joe Rogan 1:48:00 Yes

Speaker 1:48:00 You know? So if he's saying it, I take it at face value. It is what it is. I can't go and say, "I'm in your eyeballs. I've seen guys get poked all the time and they continue." Yeah, we see it all the time, but not all eye pokes are created equal

Joe Rogan 1:48:12 No

Speaker 1:48:12 And he got all them Three Stooges fingers up in there, and it was s-

Joe Rogan 1:48:16 To the knuckle

Speaker 1:48:17 Yeah, it was bad

Joe Rogan 1:48:18 Terrible. Terrible

Speaker 1:48:18 So I'm like, I can only take what he's saying. I was like, but again, it's really up to him. Can he have said... If he was winning the fight... My pushback was, devil's advocate, if he was winning the fight and having his way, would he have said, "You know what? I'm gonna suck it up and try to fight through this, even though I still can't see"? You never know. If he was-

Joe Rogan 1:48:38 I don't think he should

Speaker 1:48:38 ... if he was having-

Joe Rogan 1:48:39 I don't think he should

Speaker 1:48:40 And I agree

Joe Rogan 1:48:40 Especially for a foul. I think i- it was, he was, he made 100% the right call because look, he didn't lose that fight. It was a foul, although controversial. He doesn't get knocked out. He doesn't get head kicked. He doesn't get f- flying knee-

Speaker 1:48:53 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:48:53 ... in the face. If you can't see out of one of your eyes-

Speaker 1:48:56 It's hard

Joe Rogan 1:48:57 ... there's all sorts of shit that's coming from this direction that you're just not gonna see coming. And in wild exchanges where your peripheral would catch it and you would duck under, you're not going to be able to see it

Speaker 1:49:07 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:07 And you're gonna get rocked. And it's also, you're thinking now, "Oh my God, I can't see out of one of my eyes." Fuck that

Speaker 1:49:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:14 He did the right thing. He did the right thing-

Speaker 1:49:16 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:16 ... and I think, you know, he should've got more support. He should've got more support from everybody for, for that

Speaker 1:49:22 From everybody

Joe Rogan 1:49:23 From everybody.

Speaker 1:49:23 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:49:24 Yeah. I mean, I tried to give him as much support as I could. I think he got fouled, and they did the right thing, and I think you gotta take one point away every fucking time someone touches an eye. One point every time, and they won't do it anymore

Speaker 1:49:36 It looks like he's doing better now. We're, I'm hoping he gets to compete again this year

Joe Rogan 1:49:39 He's had two fucking eye surgeries, man

Speaker 1:49:41 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:42 So that... Remember, remember when you got knocked out by Marlon Moraes?

Speaker 1:49:45 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:45 How in the back of your head, you're like, "Oh, shit, I can't get hit"? How about him? Two eyeball surgeries, and now every time a, a finger comes towards his eye, he's thinking about his eyes, losing his eye. Look at Michael Bisping

Speaker 1:49:57 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:57 He doesn't have an eye. He has one eye that's missing, right? So you gotta think that. Am I gonna not be... Am I gonna look at my kids through one blurry eye for the rest of my life?

Speaker 1:50:07 That's fucked

Joe Rogan 1:50:08 That's fucked. You know? It's, so for the, being in the position that he's in right now is kinda terrible

Speaker 1:50:15 Um, I wanna talk about the Islam fights, um, for this weekend, for 3/30. Can we take a piss break?

Joe Rogan 1:50:23 Yeah, take a piss break.

Speaker 1:50:24 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:50:25 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1:50:26 And we're back.

Joe Rogan 1:50:26 Jamie, pull up that card, the, um, the one this weekend, so we can take a look at it. Yeah. Um, what do you think about the Ian Garry-Islam fight, if you had to predict?

Speaker 1:50:39 If I had to predict, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:50:40 If you're, like, on the UFC desk, and they put you on the spot.

Speaker 1:50:43 Okay. Islam Makhachev did a really good job neutralizing, uh, JDM's boxing. Didn't really give him an opportunity to do anything. He chopped his legs away with the, the calf kicks. Um, controlled him in the clinch. The takedowns were relatively easy. He didn't even really have to set it up with, like, hands. He kinda just shot and just took him down at will. Um, Ian Garry, now, on the other hand, he's done a good job of showing takedown resilience. Uh, we saw that with Belal Muhammad. Is Belal Muhammad Makhachev? No.

Joe Rogan 1:51:14 No.

Speaker 1:51:14 He's not.

Joe Rogan 1:51:15 No.

Speaker 1:51:15 Um, but it, it definitely showed something. He did a good job with Shavkat as well, who's a bigger guy, uh, was able to defend a bunch of times. Uh, I forgot if it was Shavkat who had his back, but he was able to defend.

Joe Rogan 1:51:26 Shavkat's the guy who beat him.

Speaker 1:51:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:28 So Shavkat is the one loss that he has, and it was the grappling-

Speaker 1:51:32 Yes

Joe Rogan 1:51:32 ... that Shavkat got him with, but he also blew out Shavkat's knee.

Speaker 1:51:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:35 Like, that's why Shavkat has had all these surgeries.

Speaker 1:51:37 That oblique kick.

Joe Rogan 1:51:38 Mm-hmm. That, that kick is so nasty. That's the one thing that I wonder, like, should we not have that?

Speaker 1:51:44 You don't like-

Joe Rogan 1:51:44 Should we-

Speaker 1:51:45 ... JDM, you don't really like that one.

Joe Rogan 1:51:46 I, it's, you can't... I mean, you can defend it by d- not getting hit by it. But the problem is, if you get hit by it, like Khalil Rountree and Modestas Bukauskas, when he went s-

Speaker 1:51:56 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:51:57 ... turned his knee sideways.

Speaker 1:51:58 He stomped that thing.

Joe Rogan 1:51:59 Stomped it, and that's, that's a career changer. Like, it could be a career ender. Bukask- Bukauskas came back, but...

Speaker 1:52:07 But this is two years now, right?

Joe Rogan 1:52:08 Yeah.

Speaker 1:52:08 For, for Shavkat that he's been out?

Joe Rogan 1:52:10 Yep. He's had multiple surgeries. He ha- he had it done, and then it blew out again, and had to get it done again.

Speaker 1:52:16 Yeah. I, I just don't know. The, the range, the reach advantage. I think Ian does a great job of using his lateral footwork.

Joe Rogan 1:52:23 Mm-hmm. He's fast.

Speaker 1:52:24 Makhachev's not the fastest guy.

Joe Rogan 1:52:25 No.

Speaker 1:52:26 But what he is, is he's imposing. He knows how to cut you off. Um, that southpaw stance, I think causes some problems for a lot of people. He's only lost, what, one time to the, to the, um, Adriano Martins with the-

Joe Rogan 1:52:39 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:52:39 ... the head kick knockout.

Joe Rogan 1:52:40 A punch.

Speaker 1:52:41 Was it a punch?

Joe Rogan 1:52:41 Yeah, he got punched.

Speaker 1:52:42 Oh, I thought it was a head kick. But, um, either way, I think Ian's gonna have to look to something like that, see if there's maybe some of those old tendencies that that punch was able to land.

Joe Rogan 1:52:51 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:52:51 And that was also such a younger version of Islam. I just don't see him making those mistakes again.

Joe Rogan 1:52:55 Yeah, that was a long time ago.

Speaker 1:52:56 How does Ian win? He's gonna have to point fight and sit on the outside and hope not to get tired going backwards the whole time.

Joe Rogan 1:53:02 Right.

Speaker 1:53:02 And he got tired doing that against Carlos Prates. So this is a tough one for, for Garry. Can he get the upset? Of course. It's fighting. We just saw this with Gaethje and, uh, Topuria. Um, but I would say Islam has the one shortcut way to win, push him against the cage, take him down. And even if he purses him against the cage, I'm curious to know if, curious to see if Garry can do damage in the clinch. Whenever I'm in the clinch with somebody, I always tell the guys, "Look for your knuckles and hit the eyeball. Hit the nose. Hit the soft spots that's gonna make this guy uncomfortable in the clinch, not looking for his foot sweeps, where he's comfortable just resting on you, um, looking to set up his takedown, his next transition." Uh, and I learned this from Brian Caraway. My first pro loss in the UFC, after being 5 and 0, we clinch. I take him down, but in the clinch, while I'm going for the single leg, I have his leg up in the air. He's leaning over my back, and he's taking his knuckles, and he's just hitting me in the eye. Swollen up my whole eye. I was like, "What the fuck is he hitting me with?" And I go back and I watch the tape, and I get to see, and I learn that. So I always, like, show, like, share these little tricks and stuff with guys when I'm teaching them. So if Garry can land some good damage in those positions, kind of deter Islam a little bit or make him a little bit more sloppy on his finishes, it could cause some chaotic scrambles where he could potentially get to a good position, and maybe we see Islam on his back again, kinda like what happened with Volk. And when he was there with Volk, it did not look good.

Joe Rogan 1:54:27 Right.

Speaker 1:54:27 And, and of course, it's round five, so it gotta be fair.

Joe Rogan 1:54:29 It was also a fight where the time was all fucked up, and he didn't have as much time to rehydrate.

Speaker 1:54:34 Oh, yeah. They did say s- they did say something like that, too.

Joe Rogan 1:54:36 Yeah. It was not, he didn't, he was compromised in that fight because of that, because he didn't have as much time to rehydrate 'cause they were fighting in Australia, and they were trying to fight on US time.

Speaker 1:54:47 Um, this one is the one that I'm really excited about, too, 'cause Gillian is so fucking good on the ground.

Joe Rogan 1:54:55 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:54:56 Top position, even off of her back. Mackenzie Dern is great off of her back. The top position, too, um, she's more decorated in terms of, like, the, the jujitsu space. On the feet, she's more reckless. Like, she's throwing caution to the wind 'cause she doesn't care. She's not afraid to get her pretty face messed up. She's gonna go in there and go after you. She's just attacking.

Joe Rogan 1:55:18 Yeah.

Speaker 1:55:18 Gillian, on the other hand, not as physical on the feet, um, not a big puncher, not a big kicker. She sets everything up looking for the takedown or the clinch to, to take you down, get to the back. But once she gets there, and she gets you down, she, her ground and pound, it's nasty.

Joe Rogan 1:55:34 The question is, is, is she gonna be able to do it to a world champion like Mackenzie Dern?

Speaker 1:55:37 To a good position.

Joe Rogan 1:55:39 Yeah.

Speaker 1:55:39 Like, some of those other girls, she gets the back mount or full mount, and she's able to land these solid elbows, beat them up in that position.

Joe Rogan 1:55:46 Mackenzie's a jujitsu world champion.

Speaker 1:55:47 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:55:48 It's a different, different world.

Speaker 1:55:49 That's the hard part.

Joe Rogan 1:55:50 It's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be interesting. Um, go to the other rest of the card. Go back to it. 'Cause, uh, I'm interested to see m- how, uh, Abdul Malik recovers from his last fight against-

Speaker 1:56:03 Oh, bro, that guy was so big

Joe Rogan 1:56:04 ... Bulgari. Bulgari's a monster, dude. There's, that's a guy in the 185-pound division that's a real fucking problem.

Speaker 1:56:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:11 He's a world-class striker, and he has a victory over Pereira in Glory.

Speaker 1:56:16 Yeah, that is, that's the, yeah, that's the guy.

Joe Rogan 1:56:18 Yeah. One victory, and then he, he got starched in the rematch.

Speaker 1:56:22 But the thing with, with, uh, Malik is He was trying to go for the takedowns, but the setups were like, in my opinion, from a wrestler's standpoint, so I may be a little bit unfair with this criticism, but I just didn't think they're, they were that good. And, um-

Joe Rogan 1:56:35 He was also dealing with striking that was, like, way above and beyond him.

Speaker 1:56:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:39 And that, that was part of the problem is that in the transitions, like, trying to get close to him, you're dealing with a guy who's gigantic. He's one of the tallest guys in the division. He's so fucking big for 185. So long and so tall, and on top of it, world-class striker. And he's

Joe Rogan 1:56:54 coming into his own as an MMA guy, and part of the reason is 'cause he's down there in Connecticut with, with, uh, Glover and with Alex, and he's doing camps with those guys. So, like, his grappling's now on point.

Speaker 1:57:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:57:06 Much more confident on the feet, much more stable. But before that, I thought Manzur was a real potential world champion.

Speaker 1:57:14 Yes. But it's just so crazy. You can see somebody in one fight and then see him in the next one, and you're just like, "All right."

Joe Rogan 1:57:20 It was a bad loss, too. It was a bad loss.

Speaker 1:57:22 It wasn't good. He got-

Joe Rogan 1:57:22 It was a lot of like... See if we can find that fight

Speaker 1:57:25 ... leg, leg kicks. He did jabs.

Joe Rogan 1:57:27 He, he got, he got beat up. So it was... The thing was the amount of damage that he took, 'cause he's so tough, the amount of damage he took before they stopped the fight was pretty extraordinary. There was a lot of damage.

Speaker 1:57:37 I was hoping he could get the fight down at least once.

Joe Rogan 1:57:40 Right.

Speaker 1:57:40 But he, yeah, he couldn't. It was, uh, it was a tough... [sighs] This part.

Joe Rogan 1:57:46 There's a lot of guys-

Speaker 1:57:47 This part gets so fucked [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:47 ... at 185 that are a fucking problem, man. A lot of guys at 85 that are a real problem.

Speaker 1:57:53 But we need that in those divisions.

Joe Rogan 1:57:54 Yeah.

Speaker 1:57:54 'Cause those divisions have been so thin for so long.

Joe Rogan 1:57:57 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:57:57 Like, there's a couple of guys, right? But now you're starting to see more, like, even, like, the lower weight classes. A guy who's unranked like a Ethan Ewing.

Joe Rogan 1:58:03 Right. Right.

Speaker 1:58:04 Right? And you're like, "I'm excited about this division 'cause I wanna see how far he could go." You got a guy like Manzur, and I can't for say the other guy's name. Um, Abdul? No, um, that's Manzur.

Joe Rogan 1:58:13 Bulgari?

Speaker 1:58:14 Bulgari.

Joe Rogan 1:58:14 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:58:15 You got these two guys coming up.

Joe Rogan 1:58:16 Well, you got Attiba Gottier. How about that motherfucker?

Speaker 1:58:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58:19 He puts guys into orbit.

Speaker 1:58:20 He fought our guy, uh, Ozzy Diaz, the last one.

Joe Rogan 1:58:23 Yeah.

Speaker 1:58:23 That was a tough one.

Joe Rogan 1:58:24 It was a tough one. Yeah, this is the fight. I mean, Manzur is so tough that he was able to s- keep this fight going where a lot of guys would've got taken out early. But he's-

Speaker 1:58:36 Look at that

Joe Rogan 1:58:36 ... yeah, the elbows and the clinch, everything. He's just getting destroyed.

Speaker 1:58:39 But you see how he's even trapping the wrist and then-

Joe Rogan 1:58:41 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:58:41 ... stepping in with the punches or stepping in with the elbows?

Joe Rogan 1:58:43 Clean right hand, elbow. It's just Manzur is so tough.

Speaker 1:58:47 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:58:47 He's so tough. He's just absorbing so much punishment, and finally they stop it. But before the stoppage-

Speaker 1:58:54 He's waiting it out for him. [laughs] The ref's like, "Get outta here"

Joe Rogan 1:58:58 ... before the stoppage... I think that was the end of a round. I don't even know if that was-

Speaker 1:59:01 That was the end of the round, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:02 Yeah, that wasn't the actual stoppage. Yeah, it was the end of the round. So if you keep going in the fight, it gets even worse. I mean, the thing about standup is when you're dealing with a guy who's a world championship kickboxer-

Speaker 1:59:15 Ugh

Joe Rogan 1:59:15 ... and you can't take him down, and he's got really good takedown defense, and he's got a reach advantage, it's like everything possible that's terrible about what could happen is going on.

Speaker 1:59:26 Oh, that split right hand. Oh my goodness. Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:59:32 Yeah.

Speaker 1:59:32 I'm surprised he didn't just face plant after that.

Joe Rogan 1:59:34 Well, he's so tough, man. But the problem being so-

Speaker 1:59:38 But that's the durability

Joe Rogan 1:59:39 ... the durability and, but the toughness is, your problem is you get so many holes punched in your card in one fight.

Speaker 1:59:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:59:45 In one fight.

Speaker 1:59:46 That's-

Joe Rogan 1:59:46 Whereas if you got hit with one shot, one big shot is bad. You get taken out, but it's not as bad as a prolonged beating over three rounds.

Speaker 1:59:54 I, I always say... I call them dings.

Joe Rogan 1:59:57 There he is right there.

Speaker 1:59:57 There's only so many dings you can have in your career before it just like-

Joe Rogan 2:00:01 Yeah, this is at, at, th- this is the final bo- his body just couldn't... As tough as he is, and he's so tough, but the problem is that's the kind of fight where in boxing you wouldn't have, if you were a manager and he was your guy, you would not have had him fight him at this stage of his career.

Speaker 2:00:19 No, not at all.

Joe Rogan 2:00:19 You'd be like, "This is not a fight for you right now. We, we've gotta really get our striking better. We've gotta... There's, there's growth to be, to be had before you fight that guy."

Speaker 2:00:28 But you gotta know that, and I think sometimes fighters, we can be so egotistical-

Joe Rogan 2:00:36 Right

Speaker 2:00:36 ... that we're, "I could beat anybody." But sometimes it's nice to be like, "You know what? I could beat him, but just not right now. Let me beat somebody else. We'll get there when we get there." But it takes a-

Joe Rogan 2:00:48 But the UFC does not give you that opportunity.

Speaker 2:00:51 They-

Joe Rogan 2:00:51 The UFC is like, "Here's the wolves."

Speaker 2:00:53 You can say no, though.

Joe Rogan 2:00:54 You can.

Speaker 2:00:55 You'll just gonna be shelved.

Joe Rogan 2:00:56 But you might get shelved for a long fucking time-

Speaker 2:00:58 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:00:58 ... if you say no, and a lot of guys know that. And they also know some guys have taken advantage of those opportunities, those short mo- notice oppor- Jon Jones.

Speaker 2:01:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:06 Jon Jones got... I mean, what was the fight with Shogun? It was very short notice.

Speaker 2:01:11 After he'd just beaten... Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 2:01:15 Who did he beat? He beat everybody, but who did he beat?

Speaker 2:01:17 Rashad Evans had just gotten hurt, and then he stepped in and take, and took that one-

Joe Rogan 2:01:21 Right

Speaker 2:01:21 ... for the title.

Joe Rogan 2:01:22 Exactly, and that's when him and Rashad were training partners.

Speaker 2:01:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:25 And that's, that's shows the wildness of Jon. He's fighting Shogun, who's a legend, who's the light heavyweight champion. Opens with a flying knee.

Speaker 2:01:34 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:36 At 22.

Speaker 2:01:38 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:38 And beats him down. Beats him down and, and wins the title.

Speaker 2:01:43 He has to be studied.

Joe Rogan 2:01:45 Listen, man, he should be coaching for sure. Definitely should be co- I mean, he is now with, uh, Gable.

Speaker 2:01:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:51 Gable Steveson is, uh, he's a real fucking problem.

Speaker 2:01:54 But the other thing is this.

Joe Rogan 2:01:55 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:01:56 You can show all the technique in the world, and I, I always say it comes back down to what do you do when you're in there under those bright lights? And that's the most important thing, and if you can't dial it in, it's a scary place to be 'cause I can't make you confident. You can be as confident as you want when you're talking to me, but only you truly know what's, like, what's really going on between, between those ears.

Joe Rogan 2:02:18 Right.

Speaker 2:02:18 You know? So-

Joe Rogan 2:02:18 Right

Speaker 2:02:19 ... that's where it gets, like, tricky.

Joe Rogan 2:02:21 It does. It gets very tricky. It gets very tricky, and it's complicated. And I mean, there's only so much a, a, a mental coach can teach you on how to handle those situations. They can give you some tools, but either I mean, I think it's something that's born out of your life, you know?

Speaker 2:02:37 You like mental coaches?

Joe Rogan 2:02:38 Excuse me?

Speaker 2:02:38 You like mental coaches?

Joe Rogan 2:02:40 [lips smack] Um, I think there's nothing wrong with tightening up every single aspect of your game. However, I don't think they could fix a leaky boat.

Speaker 2:02:52 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:53 What do you think?

Speaker 2:02:54 I think it's a-

Joe Rogan 2:02:55 You said it like you don't like mental coaches. [both laughing]

Speaker 2:02:58 I think it's a chink in the armor. I think it's a chink in the armor, and if I know you have a mental coach-

Joe Rogan 2:03:03 Yeah

Speaker 2:03:03 ... I'm coming for that ass.

Joe Rogan 2:03:04 Okay. But what if you found out that Alexandre Pantoja had a mental coach, as savage as that dude is?

Speaker 2:03:13 Good for him.

Joe Rogan 2:03:14 I might be like, "Okay."

Speaker 2:03:15 But he's not fighting me.

Joe Rogan 2:03:16 Right. But you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2:03:17 [laughs] That's what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 2:03:18 But you know what I'm saying? Like, imagine if you, you found out Petr Yan had a mental

Joe Rogan 2:03:22 coach.

Speaker 2:03:23 That's cool.

Joe Rogan 2:03:24 But you know what I'm saying? Like, if a guy is elite already, and already a dog, and you give him just some different things to concentrate on, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. What I think is, if you need it, it shows me that there's an issue, and sometimes that issue can never be fixed. There's some guys that when the going gets tough, they find a way out.

Speaker 2:03:47 That's, that's where I'm getting at.

Joe Rogan 2:03:48 Yeah.

Speaker 2:03:49 I agree with you. If you need it, there's nothing wrong with it. But I also know that there's a place in there that if I could get the right key to unlock that door-

Joe Rogan 2:03:58 [laughs]

Speaker 2:03:59 ... it's gonna be bad. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:04:01 Yeah.

Speaker 2:04:01 It's gonna be bad. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:04:03 [laughs] You're always joking people. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right, and I don't know. I mean, um, Sean Brady had a mental coach, and, uh, you know, there's moments where Sean Brady is a motherfucker.

Speaker 2:04:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:17 Right? Like, the Joaquin Buckley fight. Like, holy shit, dude.

Speaker 2:04:20 That Leon Edwards...

Joe Rogan 2:04:21 Oh, my God. Ex- extraordinary. But then Morales. But the problem is Morales is a fucking light heavyweight.

Speaker 2:04:28 He's huge.

Joe Rogan 2:04:29 Gigantic. You wanna talk about the one guy that is, like, the poster boy for cutting weight, it's Morales. He's so big for 170. It's, it doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 2:04:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:41 You see him in the octagon, you're like, "That's a light heavyweight." Or at the very least, a very big middleweight.

Speaker 2:04:46 No, for sure. He's a big dude.

Joe Rogan 2:04:48 And he's welterweight.

Speaker 2:04:49 And to see him and Brady in there is like, this is not the same weight class.

Joe Rogan 2:04:53 It seemed like it wasn't.

Speaker 2:04:54 He got the, he got a big back. But I'm looking at him like...

Joe Rogan 2:04:57 But then, look what Brady did to a former world champion in Leon Edwards, who's a good grappler. I mean, Leon took down Kamaru Usman. Leon can grapple. He's a good grappler. But there's levels, and Sean Brady's on another level when it comes to that. And what he did to Buckley was just bananas. It looked like he was in a training room, you know?

Speaker 2:05:15 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:05:16 Right when he was on top of him, it was, looked like he was, like, working a heavy bag drill. It was crazy.

Speaker 2:05:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:20 Like, had no fear whatsoever of getting shook off. It was like, "There is not a chance in hell you're getting me off you, so I'm just gonna work my cardio and beat your ass."

Speaker 2:05:30 Which is fascinating, 'cause he's so strong and explosive. You would think he would be able to get up.

Joe Rogan 2:05:36 223.

Speaker 2:05:37 Bro.

Joe Rogan 2:05:38 Izawa weighing in for the, as the backup for this fight, so he's cutting weight. [laughs]

Speaker 2:05:43 Bro, that's, that's ridiculous, bro.

Joe Rogan 2:05:45 223 is heavyweight. He's a heavyweight. He's down to 193 now.

Speaker 2:05:51 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:53 Yeah, but that's probably after training.

Speaker 2:05:55 Yeah. [laughs] That's not, that's not the morning weight.

Joe Rogan 2:05:58 You know? That's not real. He's really over 200, I guarantee you.

Speaker 2:06:00 No, I seen him in person. He's a big motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 2:06:02 He's enormous.

Speaker 2:06:02 I'm like, "How is he making 170?"

Joe Rogan 2:06:04 He's huge. And his power is fucking extraordinary. He has to cut 20 or more pounds this week. Yeah, but listen, he can do it. He's young. He's done it before. He started out, he was a wrestler. That's his original discipline.

Speaker 2:06:16 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:06:16 Yeah, he knows how to cut weight.

Speaker 2:06:18 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 2:06:18 Wrestling and judo, I believe. See, go find his Wikipedia.

Speaker 2:06:23 Sorry.

Joe Rogan 2:06:23 He's, he can grapple, man. That's the thing. You don't see it from him, which is crazy.

Speaker 2:06:28 I see his videos.

Joe Rogan 2:06:29 Yeah.

Speaker 2:06:29 Not, not the one where he's dressed up as a girl, but...

Joe Rogan 2:06:32 Ah. [laughs]

Speaker 2:06:32 I think that's a tradition down there.

Joe Rogan 2:06:34 Yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 2:06:35 They, they get silly.

Joe Rogan 2:06:36 But it's... Yeah.

Speaker 2:06:36 I know. It's a little-

Joe Rogan 2:06:38 The guys blowing kisses. [laughs]

Speaker 2:06:39 It's a little sus.

Joe Rogan 2:06:40 Like, what? [laughs]

Speaker 2:06:40 I think they do, it's a traditional thing they do down there. I don't understand it, but I don't have to.

Joe Rogan 2:06:45 I've never seen Chito do it. He says he's been doing judo since he was five years old. Yeah. See, there you go. His mother was-

Speaker 2:06:50 I wanna see him and Islam

Joe Rogan 2:06:52 His mother was what? Third Dan judo black belt. Yeah. Retired when she was 42. Wow. He switched to wrestling when he was 10. Yeah. Watch out for the little mama. So he's got a background in grappling.

Speaker 2:07:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:04 That's where he started out. But the thing is, the dude's got lightning in his hands.

Speaker 2:07:08 I wanna see him and Islam.

Joe Rogan 2:07:10 I wanna see him and Carlos Procházka.

Speaker 2:07:12 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 2:07:12 That's what I wanna see.

Speaker 2:07:14 Fuck-

Joe Rogan 2:07:14 Yes

Speaker 2:07:15 ... I just, I wanna see it.

Joe Rogan 2:07:16 Procházka, Procházka is the truth.

Speaker 2:07:18 I just don't want-

Joe Rogan 2:07:18 That dude scares the fuck outta me.

Speaker 2:07:20 I don't want nobody knocking each other off yet.

Joe Rogan 2:07:22 I understand what you're saying. Right.

Speaker 2:07:23 That's it. That's where it gets hard. It's like, you kill the storyline.

Joe Rogan 2:07:26 Right, 'cause that, that's, that's 100% a great world championship fight.

Speaker 2:07:29 You know?

Joe Rogan 2:07:29 And we'll see what happens. Listen, if... Islam may retire.

Speaker 2:07:36 I, I can feel it in... I can feel it in my-

Joe Rogan 2:07:37 He may retire. He's done a lot. He's, he's competed in two different weight classes and won world championships in two different weight classes. If he beats Ian, if he submits Ian and says, "I've had enough. I'm gonna do what Khabib did, and I'm gonna coach now," I could see that. And then I could see Morales-

Speaker 2:07:55 Procházka

Joe Rogan 2:07:55 ... and Procházka for the fucking undisputed title.

Speaker 2:07:59 Yeah. That's the way to go.

Joe Rogan 2:08:00 Procházka scares the fuck out of me, dude.

Speaker 2:08:02 'Cause I, I, he's-

Joe Rogan 2:08:03 He's, to me, he's the scariest because he does weird shit in there where, like, he, he sets you up with stuff. Like, he does that setup where he fakes a punch and dives in with that left knee to the body.

Speaker 2:08:14 The... Yeah, nasty.

Joe Rogan 2:08:16 And his punching power is fucking crazy, man.

Speaker 2:08:19 All while his hands are down here. Hands-

Joe Rogan 2:08:21 Hands down there and having fun. Having fun, relaxing.

Speaker 2:08:24 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:08:25 Like, when JDM took him down, he's like, "Why, why are we wrestling, my friend?"

Speaker 2:08:29 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:08:29 "People don't wanna see wrestling. Come on, let me up." [laughs]

Speaker 2:08:34 But JDM's the boxer, so I thought it was gonna be more competitive.

Joe Rogan 2:08:37 JDM's pretty complete Um, you know, JDM supposedly in the Islam fight had a really bad back. It was pretty fucked up, and really struggled with, uh, wrestling, uh, getting ready for that fight. That's the word. Um, and, you know, even if he didn't, there's levels, and Islam's level is the highest level. He's the, the highest level. When it comes to grappling, there's no one higher in that division than Islam. His fucking, his squeeze is extraordinary.

Speaker 2:09:04 That's why I wanna train with those guys.

Joe Rogan 2:09:06 Yeah.

Speaker 2:09:06 Just give me a week, one, two weeks and forget.

Joe Rogan 2:09:08 Send them to Dagestan.

Speaker 2:09:10 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:09:10 Two, two years, forget.

Speaker 2:09:11 [laughs] I'll be good with that.

Joe Rogan 2:09:13 Would you wanna go down there and train with those guys?

Speaker 2:09:15 I, I would go down for a bit.

Joe Rogan 2:09:16 Why don't you go down?

Speaker 2:09:18 I got this. I got the cigars.

Joe Rogan 2:09:20 All this and-

Speaker 2:09:21 I got my training partners.

Joe Rogan 2:09:22 I understand, but time is of the essence. There's not much time left. If you wanna find out, it has to be now.

Speaker 2:09:27 I know.

Joe Rogan 2:09:28 You can't go down there when you're 40.

Speaker 2:09:29 Or maybe I'm like Mighty Mouse, when I'm retired I go train everywhere.

Joe Rogan 2:09:33 Or George. George St-Pierre does that.

Speaker 2:09:35 Or George. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:09:35 He's down here all the time training with Gordon Ryan.

Speaker 2:09:37 Yeah. That'd be fun, you know. But-

Joe Rogan 2:09:39 George, George is, like, a real martial artist, you know what I mean? Like, never got out of shape.

Speaker 2:09:43 He's the man.

Joe Rogan 2:09:44 He's the man. And he's so cool. He was... He, you know, he plays chess at a really high level.

Speaker 2:09:49 I play chess.

Joe Rogan 2:09:50 You play chess, too?

Speaker 2:09:51 I play chess.

Joe Rogan 2:09:52 Are you good?

Speaker 2:09:52 I'm about a 1400... I'm about a 1350 to 1420 Elo.

Joe Rogan 2:09:57 Is that good?

Speaker 2:09:58 It's supposed to be good. Decent for, like... I'm not like a grandmaster, which is, like, 2500 or s- some shit, or 3,000.

Joe Rogan 2:10:04 How often do you play?

Speaker 2:10:05 Every day.

Joe Rogan 2:10:06 Really?

Speaker 2:10:07 Every day, but I play five-minute games 'cause it's similar to, like, a fight. Like, you gotta know and make your strategies, make your attacks. Some guys, they play 10-minute games. I'm like, "Bro, I'm too busy to play 10-minute games." I gotta-

Joe Rogan 2:10:17 Where did you learn?

Speaker 2:10:19 I started playing after COVID, during COVID, when Queen's Gambit came out.

Joe Rogan 2:10:23 Ah.

Speaker 2:10:23 And I used to think chess was like, "Oh, that's a gay s- that's a gay thing." It was like-

Joe Rogan 2:10:28 [laughs]

Speaker 2:10:28 ... so stupid. Play checkers like a man. And I'm like, "Oh."

Joe Rogan 2:10:30 What? Play checkers like a man-

Speaker 2:10:31 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:31 ... is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 2:10:33 Yeah. [laughs] Then I realized real quick, I was like, "Oh, this is, this is some high-level shit. This is not for stupid people. This is for intellects."

Joe Rogan 2:10:40 Yeah.

Speaker 2:10:40 Like, you have to understand what you're actually doing, strategizing, setting people up. Kinda like a fight.

Joe Rogan 2:10:45 It's a fascinating game. Um, George was playing James McCann. James McCann's a hilarious comedian from, uh, Australia. And George and James is very smart and a really good chess player, and George and him were going to war in the green room of the Mothership, and we were all like, "Whoa, shit."

Speaker 2:11:02 The board?

Joe Rogan 2:11:02 Yeah. Yeah, they had a board. Yeah.

Speaker 2:11:04 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 2:11:05 Guys play at the Mothership all the time. Brian Simpson and Tony Hinchcliffe play all the time.

Speaker 2:11:09 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:11:10 Yeah. They, they get serious about chess.

Speaker 2:11:11 Challenge, challenge accepted.

Joe Rogan 2:11:13 Yeah, man. I don't play, but I'm scared. I'm scared to play.

Speaker 2:11:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:17 Yeah. I'm, I-

Speaker 2:11:17 It's a, it's addicting

Joe Rogan 2:11:18 ... that's the problem.

Speaker 2:11:19 It's... 'Cause then you wanna, you wanna know the openings. You wanna know the strategies. You wanna know, "Okay, if I do this sacrifice," and there's so many little things.

Joe Rogan 2:11:26 Now, did you learn by reading books? Did you learn by watching videos? How'd you learn?

Speaker 2:11:31 Um, I downloaded the app during COVID, and that was it. I was hooked.

Joe Rogan 2:11:36 And so how did you learn how to move?

Speaker 2:11:40 Um, the game. So the game, you could start, like, beginner level. It tells you what pieces, like, does what. Like, the pawn can only go forward, it can only capture sideways. The knight can only do, like, this L-shaped thing-

Joe Rogan 2:11:51 Mm-hmm

Speaker 2:11:51 ... forward, backwards, and-

Joe Rogan 2:11:53 So you just learned from the app?

Speaker 2:11:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:55 Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:11:55 And then I started watching videos. Then I was watching hour-long videos and tutorials. I was like, "All right. The, the hooks are in."

Joe Rogan 2:12:02 Bro, we had Magnus Carlsen on the podcast, and Tony sat in with it 'cause, you know, Tony plays, and it was like watching a guy and talking... watching his mind move and just talking to him about how he does it and how he strategizes and... You know, he's the greatest of all time.

Speaker 2:12:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:16 So having him, like, explain the game to you, you just go, "Whoa." There's just so many, there's so many moves. It's so complex.

Speaker 2:12:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:26 There's so much going on. There's so many, so many-

Speaker 2:12:28 Theories and-

Joe Rogan 2:12:29 ... steps in advance you're playing.

Speaker 2:12:32 It's cool.

Joe Rogan 2:12:33 Yeah.

Speaker 2:12:34 It's cool. But it-

Joe Rogan 2:12:34 And it's something you could play forever, too.

Speaker 2:12:36 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:12:36 ... regardless of your physical ability, you know? You don't have to ever worry about getting out of shape to play chess.

Speaker 2:12:42 Yeah. Uh, I wanna... I, I have some of my friends, uh, that did some time, and that's where they learned.

Joe Rogan 2:12:51 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:12:51 That's where they learned how to play, and, uh, we'd, we'd play from time to time. Uh, but then I come to find out, like, they were really good at the time because I wasn't really good. I thought I was good, but I [laughs] really wasn't. And then really quickly I realized, "Oh, these guys really, they're like-"

Joe Rogan 2:13:05 They're not that good.

Speaker 2:13:06 "They're, like, low level."

Joe Rogan 2:13:08 Yeah.

Speaker 2:13:08 You know? So it's, it's, it's very intellectual game. That's why I really, really enjoy it.

Joe Rogan 2:13:12 When I was playing pool in New York, there was this kid who was a, a, a young player who w- like, when he was really young, he was playing in tournaments all over the place. He was, like, really good, and there was a dude who got out of prison and learned how to play in his head in prison-

Speaker 2:13:26 Hmm

Joe Rogan 2:13:26 ... 'cause they didn't have a board. And so this kid and this old dude were sitting there playing chess in their head, and they would call out the moves, and they had the, the, the whole board mapped. I was fascinated. I was like, "This is crazy."

Speaker 2:13:38 That's hard. That's really hard to do.

Joe Rogan 2:13:41 Yeah, and you al- also have to agree where the pieces are.

Speaker 2:13:44 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:13:45 You know what I mean? Like-

Speaker 2:13:45 I'm not that good. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:13:46 You gotta rely on... And, you know, this one guy had played so many times in prison in his head that he could keep track of the entire board, and this kid was a wizard at it. And watching these two guys call out moves and just sit- sitting there staring at each other, like, trying to figure out who's winning.

Speaker 2:14:02 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:14:02 I'm like, "You guys are playing an invisible board. This is crazy."

Speaker 2:14:05 Yeah. That's, that's next level.

Joe Rogan 2:14:06 That was my first introduction to chess. I was like, "This is nuts, man." Uh, you wanna try the silver?

Speaker 2:14:12 Sure. I'll try it.

Joe Rogan 2:14:14 I still have some of this left, though.

Speaker 2:14:16 It's water now.

Joe Rogan 2:14:16 Yeah.

Speaker 2:14:17 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:14:17 I know. It is.

Speaker 2:14:18 Agua. It's still chilled, too, so... I like this one chilled. You do ever do, like, a green tea shot?

Joe Rogan 2:14:30 Pour a little bit of that there. What's a green tea shot?

Speaker 2:14:32 It's like with bourbon or whiskey. It's like a little s-

Joe Rogan 2:14:35 Like green tea?

Speaker 2:14:36 Yeah. They call it green tea. You see a lot of the girls, they drink it at the bars and stuff. So we did this with, like, a s- we call it silver tea 'cause the silver rum.

Joe Rogan 2:14:45 What is rum made with?

Speaker 2:14:46 Sugarcane, sugarcane, uh, or molasses. Uh, I think the other one's agricole?

Joe Rogan 2:14:54 But no matter where people are in the world, they find a way to get fucked up.

Speaker 2:14:58 Yeah. From the Pirates of the Caribbean.

Joe Rogan 2:15:00 Is that what's rum?

Speaker 2:15:01 No, no. [laughs] But that's what the pirates would drink.

Joe Rogan 2:15:04 Ooh. Why did, uh... Why are pirates, why were they so into rum?

Speaker 2:15:08 Honestly, I couldn't tell you.

Joe Rogan 2:15:10 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2:15:10 I, I, argh, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:15:14 That's like rum is, like, associ- I'm, uh... They probably learned from the Caribbean, right?

Speaker 2:15:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:15:19 That's where it originated, right?

Speaker 2:15:20 Yeah, you get it from, uh, sugarcane plants and the whole distillation process. This is, like, pot still, pot still and column still for both of these. This is, it's just a Jamaican blend. Like, some of them are mostly, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:15:32 Pirates did drink rum, but the stereotype is exaggerated-

Speaker 2:15:35 Ah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:15:35 ... says Perplexity. During much of the 1600s, Car- Caribbean pirates often drank wine and brandy more commonly. Rum became far more available and popular in the early 1700s as Ca- Caribbean sugar production expanded. Oh, that makes sense.

Speaker 2:15:51 Hm.

Joe Rogan 2:15:52 Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of rum.

Speaker 2:15:54 [laughs] You know what I, I never understood is, like, we, we know the big players in the rum market, like Bacardi, Captain Morgan, Malibu. But when we go on vacation, we go to the Caribbeans, we drink all the different rums from, from the islands, and I always tell people, like, "You have such a great time drinking rum. Like, w- why don't we bring that here to that, to our culture and, and make it more of a inclusive thing versus just only when I go on vacation, that's the only time it's really associated." And I go, I wanna change that, that narrative and let people... Rum is for year-round. You could have sipping rum, you could have it for Vegas pool parties, um, you could have it with a cigar. Like, there's so many different ways you can enjoy it. It's, it's not just for vacation time. It's, for me, I, I want this to be something that makes you feel like you're back on the island. And we wanted to make sure this was 100% Jamaican rum. Didn't wanna piss off my people in Jamaica, 'cause that's the one thing when we were doing this, um... So I went through the whole process, like the branding, the labeling, my money invested in it, so it's, like, actually my company. Um, but with that said, one of the things I spoke to s- some of the guys at the, at the, um, distilleries, the one we went to mainly was Worthy Park, and they were saying, "The main thing you don't wanna do is call something Jamaican rum if it's not 100% Jamaican." And I was like, I had a feeling, but I wanted to make sure, so we didn't toe that line and piss anybody off. Uh, so it's been a, this has been a fun project, and we've been having a good time just getting some bigger distribu- uh, distributors and stuff. We should get one in California soon. Um, my guy Kevin Felkler from King Seafood, he has a bunch of restaurants down in Cali and Vegas. He brought us in, but he's a Long Island guy. He heard me talking about it on, um, the Ariel show and reached out, and I thought it was, like, a prank email. I was like, "Let me just see where it goes," and it turns into something. I was like, "Oh, this is actually a legit guy, actually had a legit business and everything." And it's been cool. So this has been fun. It's my passion project. Like-

Joe Rogan 2:17:50 Well, it's a smart thing to do to prepare for your retirement, too-

Speaker 2:17:52 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:17:52 ... to have a real legitimate business going, like, as you're still fighting.

Speaker 2:17:56 Yeah. It's, it's not just my name on a label, like, trying to do a quick money grab or anything like that, so.

Joe Rogan 2:18:01 That's awesome. So where are you right now in terms of, like, your next fight? Are you in a holding pattern?

Speaker 2:18:06 Yeah, everyone's gotta fight. Lerone's the only guy who would make the most sense in my opinion. Um, but like I said, I heard he was hurt. I think Diego Lopez is supposed to have somebody he's fighting.

Joe Rogan 2:18:17 I think he's fighting lightweight now.

Speaker 2:18:18 That's what I heard.

Joe Rogan 2:18:19 I heard Diego was moving up, which makes sense, 'cause he's big.

Speaker 2:18:21 He is a big dude.

Joe Rogan 2:18:22 He's big. And after he beat Steve Garcia, which was a crazy