JRE MMA Show #184 with Aljamain Sterling

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 2:18

   Grills, Theo Von clip, and settling into the studio vibe

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan podcast, check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] I remember, uh-

   2. SPSpeaker0:13

      What's with the gold teeth? What's going on?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Theo Von-

   4. SPSpeaker0:15

      Give me a smile. [laughs]

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Oh, you got it top and bottom, man. What did you do?

   6. SPSpeaker0:20

      It's amazing. [laughs]

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker0:22

      I've always wanted to have money so I could get one of these when I was a kid growing up. [laughs]

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:27

      Now, is that one of the ones that you can take out or is it-

   10. SPSpeaker0:29

       Yeah

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       ... okay, that's good.

   12. SPSpeaker0:31

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       'Cause that's such a commitment, you know?

   14. SPSpeaker0:34

       [laughs]

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       One day you gotta go to the White House.

   16. SPSpeaker0:37

       [laughs] Right. [laughs] You got diamonds and gold in your teeth, that's crazy. And it might be a first time, you know?

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       How does it fit? It's like, like a retainer?

   18. SPSpeaker0:45

       Yeah, so they, they fit it, they mold it. Um, I got it done in, in, uh, Dallas actually. And, uh, they just fit it, mold it to your teeth, and then you could pop them in. It's-

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Te-

   20. SPSpeaker0:54

       ... almost like wearing a retainer.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       Texas loves grills.

   22. SPSpeaker0:56

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       They love grills down there.

   24. SPSpeaker0:58

       We gotta get ours.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       [laughs] We gotta get Paul Wal-

   26. SPSpeaker0:59

       You should

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       ... yeah, Paul Walser, he's gonna hook us up.

   28. SPSpeaker1:01

       [laughs] He's going, "Hey."

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       [laughs] Yeah, I'm not sure.

   30. SPSpeaker1:06

       I just, I remember-
3. 2:18 – 6:22

   Breaking down the Apex main event: elite back control and finishing mechanics

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:18

      Did you watch the UFC this past weekend, the Apex?

   2. SPSpeaker2:21

      Um, I watched the main event and co-main.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:25

      Bro, the main event, Saulkild is legit.

   4. SPSpeaker2:28

      I wasn't too sure about him, but now [laughs] I'm very sure.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:32

      As a man who has one of the best back controls in the sport-

   6. SPSpeaker2:35

      Yeah

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:36

      ... you, you had to appreciate that back control.

   8. SPSpeaker2:38

      Oh, it was amazing, and he took him down-

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      Yeah

   10. SPSpeaker2:39

       ... which I was kind of surprised. I was like, "Why is he going for the takedown?"

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       Crazy.

   12. SPSpeaker2:42

       Proving a point.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:43

       Proving a point, because his standup is so sick too.

   14. SPSpeaker2:46

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       That guy's so complete, man.

   16. SPSpeaker2:48

       And, uh-

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:48

       To do that to Gamrot

   18. SPSpeaker2:50

       ... that's what I was gonna say.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:50

       Crazy.

   20. SPSpeaker2:51

       He's a sick grappler in his own right. I thought he was gonna get out that one, that one moment where he had the leg h- uh, hiked up.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:57

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SPSpeaker2:57

       He had the ankle, and all he had to do was swim inside, but he kept it too long, it allowed him to hit the ground, and he was able to readjust and, uh, lock in that, that figured four and it was over.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       Well, when he reached over and grabbed the far arm and used that to hang onto the back-

   24. SPSpeaker3:10

       Yes

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:11

       ... I'm like, that is slick.

   26. SPSpeaker3:12

       Yes.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:12

       That was slick. He was, he was fucking slick, man. And just, just very high level. Everything was like, like an elevated level. I was, I had a very high opinion of him before the fight, but now I'm like, oh, this dude could do it. He, he could do it.

   28. SPSpeaker3:28

       He knows ball. He knows ball.

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:29

       Yeah.

   30. SPSpeaker3:29

       I was, I was, I was really surprised with that. And the fact that it went so quick, all his fights have been in the first round.
4. 6:22 – 7:51

   Win bonuses and judging: why “show/win money” frustrates fighters

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:22

      Dude, that, that is the most bullshit part of the UFC. You get both your paychecks. Fuck off.

   2. SPSpeaker6:28

      Mm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:28

      Fuck off with that. I hate it. That drives me nuts.

   4. SPSpeaker6:31

      I know the boss. We could talk to him.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:33

      He's not gonna listen.

   6. SPSpeaker6:34

      [laughs]

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:34

      He would, uh, I've said this 100 times already

   8. SPSpeaker6:37

      We could talk to him

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:37

      ... y- it should be you get paid what you get paid. It shouldn't be... First of all, if, if judges were perfect every time, maybe you could make an argument for that, but I still don't think you should make an argument for that because I think guys fight as hard as they can to win.

   10. SPSpeaker6:52

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:52

       There's no one who's fighting harder because you think you're gonna get a win bonus. You know, you're fighting as hard as you possibly can.

   12. SPSpeaker6:58

       Yeah

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:59

       At, at the highest level, and so it's, you're not incentivizing people to fight harder. You're just m- you're, you're giving too much of their career, too much of their future, too much of their m- their actual, like, how they're gonna feed their family, to the whims of people that sometimes get it wrong.

   14. SPSpeaker7:16

       100%. I, I, I do remember one incident where I was, situation I should say, where I was going to fight harder, and that was UFC 300 against Calvin Kattar when Dana announced the bonuses were gonna be 300,000.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:29

       [laughs]

   16. SPSpeaker7:29

       And I got super pumped up, and everyone always points to this. They go, "You got so excited, and then you went there and you fought like that." I go, "Listen, it's, it takes two to tango. If he wants to sit there and hold me, there's not much I can do. I can't really just fight r-" I thought about it, I was like, "I'm gonna just go out there and just start swinging for the fences and take him down and maybe get a crazy finish," and it didn't go that way, but-

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:49

       I tried

   18. SPSpeaker7:49

       ... well, I tried. I thought about it.

5. 7:51 – 10:58

   Why some fights turn into duds: expectations vs reality in MMA

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:51

      Guys cancel each other out, too.

   2. SPSpeaker7:53

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:54

      That's the thing, you know, when people want exciting fights. Everybody wants exciting fights, of course, of course. But there is a reality to skillful guys going after each other, and that sometimes they'll cancel each other out and make a boring fight.

   4. SPSpeaker8:07

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:08

      That shit happens.

   6. SPSpeaker8:09

      It, it really does. [sighs] There's, there's no rhyme or reason, either. Um-

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:14

      Nope

   8. SPSpeaker8:14

      ... I mean, l- who was it? Um, like Francis Lewis... Francis Lewis. [laughs] Francis Ngannou and Derrick Lewis.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:20

      Derrick Lewis. Oh, my God. One of the worst fights of all time.

   10. SPSpeaker8:23

       But we all thought that was gonna be just a quick fight, someone's getting-

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:26

       We thought it'd be madness, madness

   12. SPSpeaker8:28

       And-

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:28

       Guaranteed madness. Two of the biggest knockout artists in the history of the heavyweight division

   14. SPSpeaker8:32

       And exact opposite.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:33

       Nothing. Nothing happened.

   16. SPSpeaker8:35

       But-

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       It was hell

   18. SPSpeaker8:36

       ... these fights happen. [laughs]

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:37

       [laughs]

   20. SPSpeaker8:38

       And then the fans get on you about it. I'm like, "Listen, you go take a punch from that guy. That guy is gonna-"

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       Yeah

   22. SPSpeaker8:42

       ... "send my consciousness to a whole different universe."

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:44

       Well, you had Francis coming off the loss to Stipe, and I think he was a little rattled mentally. And then you had Derrick, who realizes, like, he's looking for his one big shot, and he's not willing to wade in and get clipped. And so he's l- you know, waiting to play the role of the counter striker, and then no one does nothing.

   24. SPSpeaker9:03

       Yeah. Carlos Condit and Rose Namajunas.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:07

       Rose Namajunas. Worst fight in history. Arguably.

   26. SPSpeaker9:10

       It's, it's, I'm gonna-

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:10

       I think it might be worse.

   28. SPSpeaker9:11

       [laughs]

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:12

       'Cause I think that was five rounds. We went through five rounds of that shit.

   30. SPSpeaker9:15

       [laughs] It was five rounds.
6. 10:58 – 13:06

   Sterling’s style, Petr Yan redemption, and fighting with a neck disc replacement

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:58

      They're different. Your fights are, uh, the best ex- you have the best back control I think I've ever seen in this sport. There's, when you get on someone's back, I'm like, "Oh, shit, this is getting crazy."

   2. SPSpeaker11:09

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:09

      You know?

   4. SPSpeaker11:10

      I, I did wanna say I appreciate, 'cause I do hear the, the episodes where you guys talk about it, I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:15

      Dude, your back control's nuts

   6. SPSpeaker11:16

      ... I, I appreciate that.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:16

      The Sam Hagen fight is nuts. When you know how good Sam Hagen is, and you just got that back, and that was nighty night. It was so slick. You've done that to so many dudes, too, and you could see, you know, like o- obviously redemption for you was the second Petr Yan fight. That was redemption.

   8. SPSpeaker11:33

      Oh, it felt so good.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:34

      Cool. I remember you came in right afterwards and was like, "Everybody's gotta shut the fuck up now." [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker11:39

       [laughs]

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:39

       "They all gotta shut the fuck up."

   12. SPSpeaker11:41

       They got... It was a split decision. I go, "Shut up."

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:44

       [laughs] Shut up.

   14. SPSpeaker11:44

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:45

       Please. Yeah, you, you, you really showed everybody in that second fight. The first fight was just nonsense.

   16. SPSpeaker11:52

       Well-

   17. JRJoe Rogan11:52

       The first fight w- just that kind of a, a move to hit someone when they're down on one knee like that, like what the fuck are you doing, man?

   18. SPSpeaker12:00

       That was a rough time.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:01

       Crazy. And then you, having already had a bulging disc in your neck, your neck was already fucked It's also kinda crazy that you could p- compete at the level that you compete at with a fake disc in your neck.

   20. SPSpeaker12:13

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:14

       Do you ever think about that thing?

   22. SPSpeaker12:15

       Oh, 100%. I still have, like, nerve damage in my tricep from it.

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:19

       Really?

   24. SPSpeaker12:19

       Like, if I do, like, a Pilate or just a, um, plank, you'll see it just this side shaking.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:25

       Shaking?

   26. SPSpeaker12:26

       It's so bad.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:26

       Wow.

   28. SPSpeaker12:27

       Even to this day. It's a lot better than what it was before, but this is what people don't, um, understand, like some of these fighters, us, like, we go through a lot just to make it. And you're gonna hear the other side of it, "Well, no one told you to do it." It's not even about that. It's just, like, we're trying our best to chase something great, something that's crazy in, in the sense of the word, right? And, uh, you put your body through hell to get there. And, um, I just, I know there's great fans out there who appreciate that, and there's the other ones who are more casual and they don't really understand. But I wish they took the time out just to train, to do a week of training, and understand what we put our bodies through day in, at a high level against other high-level guys.

7. 13:06 – 19:07

   Handling haters and social media: why engaging is a trap

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:06

      Listen, you need the casuals. You, you need everybody to buy tickets. It's all great.

   2. SPSpeaker13:10

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:10

      But the reality of the casuals, all you haters, you are doing yourself a disservice, too. You're saying ridiculous shit. You're acting like a fucking retard. What you really should do is do better in your own life-

   4. SPSpeaker13:24

      Yeah

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:24

      ... and you wouldn't be a hater. 'Cause almost all haters are losers, 100% of them, and the people they're hating on are doing way better than them.

   6. SPSpeaker13:35

      100%.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:35

      And there's legitimate criticism, but legitimate criticism can be handled respectfully. And the people that don't handle legi- legitimate, the people that don't dish out legitimate criticism respectfully, it's 'cause they haven't been smacked, right?

   8. SPSpeaker13:49

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:50

      Or they haven't been smacked by the guy they're talking shit about. [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker13:53

       Yeah. Or they see him and then they change their tune real quick.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:56

       Of course.

   12. SPSpeaker13:56

       It's such a weird thing.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:57

       People are so crazy. They'll talk about literal professional fighters and call them pussies. [laughs]

   14. SPSpeaker14:05

       [laughs] I can show you-

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:06

       It's so delusional

   16. SPSpeaker14:07

       ... I got a lot of DMs.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:08

       It's so delusional.

   18. SPSpeaker14:09

       One guy said, "I'll fold you in half," like recently, 'cause I, I don't-

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:12

       Yeah, but they're like-

   20. SPSpeaker14:12

       ... really check those messages

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:13

       ... just trying to fuck with your head. They don't even believe that.

   22. SPSpeaker14:16

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:16

       They're trying to get a rise out of Aljamain Sterling. They can get a rise out of a UFC champion. You know how, when they're 16 years old, jerking off, Cheetos all over their fingers.

   24. SPSpeaker14:27

       [laughs]

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:27

       You know how exciting that must be to, to, to have direct contact with you?

   26. SPSpeaker14:31

       Yeah. That's why I try, I try not to engage as much as I used to. 'Cause before I would... I think we talked about it before, I would engage and go back and forth with it.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:39

       Don't do it.

   28. SPSpeaker14:40

       And, like, I kinda got away from it, but the old version of me would like to just say all kinds of crazy shit. But I'm, I'm, you know, a little bit more mature now.

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:48

       There's no benefit in it, and it wastes energy. That's the problem. And then it also wastes your... You, you get distracted. You're like, "What did he say back? I can't wait to see what this motherfucker responded to. I'm gonna get him again." [laughs]

   30. SPSpeaker14:57

       I do check, I do check.
8. 19:07 – 26:40

   Cigars, the Comedy ‘Mothership’ name origin, and Aljo’s Funk Harbor rum

   1. SPSpeaker19:07

      Um, by the way, do you have a lighter?

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:09

      Yes.

   3. SPSpeaker19:10

      In a cup?

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:10

      Of course. What, you want some cigars?

   5. SPSpeaker19:12

      I g- I got some.

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:13

      Oh, shit. Aljamain brings gifts. [box clicks shut] Let's go.

   7. SPSpeaker19:16

      We bring gifts. These are fighter cigars, too.

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:19

      Fighter cigars?

   9. SPSpeaker19:19

      Yeah, I'm like part of that-

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:21

       What does that mean?

   11. SPSpeaker19:21

       Uh, so it's different fighter lines. I know you got a foundation.

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:25

       Uh-huh.

   13. SPSpeaker19:25

       If I could ever open this. [box rustles] I think it's all cold now. Let me use my, my, my fighting muscles.

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:31

       [laughs] Fuck it up.

   15. SPSpeaker19:34

       You need some help?

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       I might.

   17. SPSpeaker19:36

       You might. You got the bear claws. [package rustles] [package pops] It's weird. [laughs]

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:42

       I broke it. I broke the... Oh, I broke that, too. What the fuck, dude?

   19. SPSpeaker19:47

       It's supposed to just-

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:47

       I'll use the Arrowhead.

   21. SPSpeaker19:47

       It's supposed to just pull open.

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:49

       It should.

   23. SPSpeaker19:50

       I opened it this morning.

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:51

       That's weird. [package rustles] Did something happen to it?

   25. SPSpeaker19:55

       Got cold.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:56

       I got a, I got a knife in here somewhere.

   27. SPSpeaker19:57

       It's crazy.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       Where's them big ass knives that used to be here, Jamie? Oh, we had to take them out. Why? Oh, when the vice president was here? [laughs] Yes. Lucky I always carry one. [box thuds] If we can't get these open, Aljamain... D- bro, this is like hermetically sealed. It's on backwards or something. Oh, here it goes.

   29. SPSpeaker20:12

       There we go.

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:13

       We got it.
9. 26:40 – 37:43

   Weight cutting, same-day weigh-ins, and fixing weight class gaps

   1. SPSpeaker26:40

      Trust me, that, th- those were, those were my 135 days. [laughs]

   2. JRJoe Rogan26:43

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker26:44

      As soon as the fight's over, I'm going in. I'm going in.

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:46

      Bro, I remember one time I ran into you at the Apex, and I was like, "What do you weigh?"

   5. SPSpeaker26:50

      [laughs]

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:51

      And you said, "176." I was like, "That's crazy."

   7. SPSpeaker26:54

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:54

      You gotta lose 40 pounds? That's crazy.

   9. SPSpeaker26:58

      The fascinating part is when I went up to 45, I got down and I was lighter. And my natural walking around weight, still eating the same way I always did, and I was walking around about 168, sometimes 66, to about 172, and I'm like, "This is, doesn't even make any sense how much lighter I am from 135." And then-

   10. JRJoe Rogan27:18

       Maybe it's just less anxiety about making the weight.

   11. SPSpeaker27:20

       That, too.

   12. JRJoe Rogan27:21

       Your body didn't hold onto it as much.

   13. SPSpeaker27:22

       Yeah. So the body k- kind of just recognizes what's happening, like, "Oh, this is a nicer weight cut."

   14. JRJoe Rogan27:28

       Yeah, you're healthy now.

   15. SPSpeaker27:29

       Yeah. But-

   16. JRJoe Rogan27:29

       Even though it's still a weight cut

   17. SPSpeaker27:31

       ... I was gonna say, but I just checked my weight last week when I got, well, actually two days ago when I got back from, uh-

   18. JRJoe Rogan27:37

       Let me guess. You're at least 170.

   19. SPSpeaker27:41

       I'm heavier than that.

   20. JRJoe Rogan27:43

       175?

   21. SPSpeaker27:44

       North. [laughs]

   22. JRJoe Rogan27:45

       80? 180?

   23. SPSpeaker27:45

       I was 78. That's when I checked.

   24. JRJoe Rogan27:47

       Oh. [laughs]

   25. SPSpeaker27:48

       And I didn't look fat. I was like, "This is crazy. It's happening again. It's happening all over again." [laughs]

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:53

       Well, it's, there's people that d- don't understand it. Like, I have to explain to my normie friends. They're like, "How does he lose all that weight? He doesn't have anything to lose." I'm like, "Well, you're sucking your muscles dry, and that's what's crazy. And your organs. That's what's really dark."

   27. SPSpeaker28:08

       It's not good.

   28. JRJoe Rogan28:08

       Oh, it's dark, dude. It's dark. It's the worst part about fighting.

   29. SPSpeaker28:12

       I still think same-day weigh-ins.

   30. JRJoe Rogan28:14

       Well, same-day weigh-ins would change a lot, but also guys would get really hurt because people are still gonna lose the weight. They're still gonna do it.
10. 37:43 – 1:10:38

    Drinking in camp, sleep trackers, and the Herzog ‘tap’ controversy

    1. SPSpeaker37:43

       But I'm different. Some people call me an anomaly and they say you can't do what I do. I drink in training camp and people think I'm crazy.

    2. JRJoe Rogan37:49

       Do you really?

    3. SPSpeaker37:50

       Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan37:50

       How often?

    5. SPSpeaker37:50

       I drink the night before the fight.

    6. JRJoe Rogan37:52

       What?

    7. SPSpeaker37:52

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan37:53

       Come on.

    9. SPSpeaker37:53

       I have, I have one glass. Sometimes two.

    10. JRJoe Rogan37:56

        Really?

    11. SPSpeaker37:56

        Three is, like, we're getting crazy, but [laughs]

    12. JRJoe Rogan37:58

        The night before the fight-

    13. SPSpeaker37:59

        Yeah

    14. JRJoe Rogan37:59

        ... after you've cut weight?

    15. SPSpeaker38:00

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan38:01

        Why do you do that?

    17. SPSpeaker38:02

        I'm not Jon Jones, 'cause-

    18. JRJoe Rogan38:04

        [laughs]

    19. SPSpeaker38:05

        ... that guy is built... I'm built different, but he's built different than me, 'cause [laughs]

    20. JRJoe Rogan38:08

        Well, I think Jon is just so fucking talented and so fucking smart that he was able to get by and dominate at a world championship level by putting himself at a deficit like that. Whereas if Jon... [smacks lips] You say that, but Jon's a different pers-

    21. SPSpeaker38:25

        I know

    22. JRJoe Rogan38:25

        ... like, he wouldn't be the same guy.

    23. SPSpeaker38:27

        I know.

    24. JRJoe Rogan38:27

        He's wild.

    25. SPSpeaker38:28

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan38:28

        There's something about Jon that's one of the reasons why he's so good, is that he's wild. He's intelligent and wild at the same time.

    27. SPSpeaker38:35

        And that's why you can't compare... It's like, whatever makes you happy. When people... Uh, I remember Kyle Dake said something like he'll eat ice cream, not right before a match, but in his training, he said because it makes him happy. I wanna have a drink because throughout the training camp I'm already going through this hard grind. After sparring and I feel like I hit a threshold where my conditioning is at a place where I want it to be, it's like a checkpoint. I'm like, "Okay, this is my checkpoint. I hit it," and-

    28. JRJoe Rogan39:02

        Have you ever worn an Oura Ring or a WHOOP strap or any of those things?

    29. SPSpeaker39:05

        Yeah, that thing's stupid.

    30. JRJoe Rogan39:06

        Well [laughs]
11. 1:10:38 – 1:50:26

    Training philosophy: mission-driven practice, guided discovery, and leveling teammates up

    1. SPSpeaker1:10:38

       I think some guys, they train and then they go and fight without any goal in mind, and I try to preach this, 'cause I used to coach at Longo's a lot before, um, you know, running a lot of my own practices, training camps, and stuff like that. So I took over the, the role of, you know what? We're gonna add these two MMA classes in, and when we come in, we're gonna work on specific things for my fight, and anybody who has a fight. And if I'm not fighting, we're gonna focus on you guys. And even if I have a fight, we'll also work in positions that you guys need to work on. And I always try to explain to guys, like, when you're coming in, you should have a mission. Don't just waste an hour, hour and a half of training just to say, "I trained." That's cool if you don't have a fight, but you should always be looking for something to get better at, something that you can improve at. When you're sparring, A, you, you're not just going in there to spar. There should be an intent. Your sparring partner should be looking to give you a look for the fight, and you shouldn't be looking to be a complete asshole and kill your sparring partner because then nobody wants to spar with you, right? They're doing you a favor, and you need the favor from them to get where you wanna be to make sure all the things that you're drilling on the pads, drilling with your partners one-on-one. And then when you go into sparring and you're putting it together, pull up from 100%, pull it down to, like, 70. This way you can work in real time. I call it guided discovery. I learned this at, uh, SUNY Cortland when I was studying to be a PE major. I did-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:11:56

       Guided discovery.

    3. SPSpeaker1:11:58

       Yeah. So you're, you're working on certain things and, um, say we're doing wrestling, and you're learning the position. I show you a high crotch. You grab the, the, the tricep, or you post it. You shoot the high crotch, which means your head is on the outside, and I attack the leg. Two hands are now locked on that outside leg. My head is on the outside, and I'm in a strong position, and my posture's straight, and now you're learning defense. Okay, so from a defensive position, a guy shoots this shot super clean, super perfect. What are my choices that I can make? What are the options? I could turn the head to the inside, stuff the head. I could push the head further to outside and stuff the head to the outside where his head already is and look to cut the corner, or I could use my, stuff the head and use my, my whizzer or tight waist, plugging the, the hip, stuffing the head, and rotating my hips. And if he d- puts me down to the mat, what is my responses from that? So then you're chaining everything together, and you gotta, you kinda got a system of my responses. So I'm not just doing stuff based on instinct. Instinct is good, but you should also have instinctual habits, if that makes sense.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:13:02

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SPSpeaker1:13:02

       Like, stuff that you know will work.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:13:04

       Right.

    7. SPSpeaker1:13:05

       And then you fine-tune it to know this is my line of defense. If he goes here and I feel him going this way, I go this way. And if he's starting to turn the other way, then I know I need to do this and turn his head the other way, put my pressure or my weight, um, in another position so that I can now create this space so I can escape and get my leg out.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:13:21

       Right.

    9. SPSpeaker1:13:22

       And a lot of guys, they're, they're not trained like that. They go in, they're sparring, they're just throwing a bunch of punches. Maybe they're throwing set combos that they hit on the pads, but how are you setting that up? Are you m- feinting, moving him towards the cage, looking for the, the gap where the octagon kinda changes, where it's no longer, like, a flat surface and it's cutting at an angle where you take away a little real estate? And then you're trapping them where there's not a lot of room for them to get back from, but now you can set up your strikes and know where you're trying to go. But if I'm cutting him off, and he constantly does this, and he maybe juke steps me and goes back the other direction, and I'm starting my combination, now he's gone. So it's like, how do you set up all these things that you know exactly where you wanna go? Because he's gonna have an option in the fight in real time, but in training is where you should be working out the kinks and understanding this. And I, I truly feel this is one of the things I done so well early on in my career and why I was teaching a class, 'cause I felt like the guys needed it. I was taking these guys down at will. There was no resistance. I'm like, "I'm good, but how good am I actually?" Because these guys just, they just don't know. They don't have the information. Okay, let's level them up. Now these guys are leveled up, it makes it harder for me. Now I have to improve what I'm doing, and I have to bring a different approach. Okay, he knows how to do this now, so when I do this, I can't just get a easy takedown where I'm just gonna sit him to his butt. He's now challenging me with the whizzer, stuffing my head, breaking my posture. Now I'm elongated, I'm on the ground, maybe I'm on both knees. How do I readjust, post my hand, get height again, attacking the legs, taking them back the other way, or coming through the middle, through the crotch, and finishing a takedown like what we call, some people call it a Iranian, or we call it a All-American finish. But there's just so many little nuances, and I feel in MMA, th- people are still training just to train. And I think that's the difference between understanding your timing. You know the same moves, but if I know it faster, if I know how to react faster than you, I'm gonna win that position or the situation every single time, unless you throw caution to the wind and then it's just some random wild card that I just get caught by. Which, if I'm aware, it should, the chance of that should be very, very low.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:15:29

        Well, that's the benefit of teaching the people that you're training with everything you know. That way, you must come up with a new solution-

    11. SPSpeaker1:15:35

        Not everything

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:15:35

        ... and you're forcing it.

    13. SPSpeaker1:15:36

        Not everything? Everything? [laughs]

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:15:38

        What do you hold back?

    15. SPSpeaker1:15:38

        [laughs]

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:15:39

        What do you hold back?

    17. SPSpeaker1:15:40

        Not everything. [laughs]

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:15:42

        [laughs] Get close.

    19. SPSpeaker1:15:44

        I can't let you get close.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:15:45

        But that's also world champion mindset versus someone who's just a fighter who fights and does well and is a good fighter. But there's so many times where I watch guys fight and, um, I watch exchanges, and they're wading towards each other and throwing bombs at each other, and one guy wins and one guy loses. But I'm like, "This is not the ultimate way to do this." This is a, you can do it. You can be a, a battering ram and a blunt force object, and you can get it done. You know, like, we've seen so many fights that have just been insane first-round wars.

    21. SPSpeaker1:16:16

        [laughs]

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:16:16

        And then we've seen guys that just are slick, and they're moving around and switching stances and doing wild shit that you don't expect and overwhelming the, the other guy's nervous system and, and not getting hit and, and doing things where you're like, "Oh my God, that's so sweet. That's so smooth." And those are the guys that are gonna excel, and those are the guys that are gonna really take it to the next level.

    23. SPSpeaker1:16:37

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:16:38

        And I think when you're talking about all these guys, like the Caucus guys, these Dagestani guys, these, so many guys that are coming up right now that are so fucking high level, like, y- you can't have any flaws in your game anymore. You can't just be a guy who wades at someone and tries to throw bombs and hopes they land. I mean, may- maybe that works on a regional scene. Maybe that works with training partners that are a lower level than you. But you're gonna get pieced up if you fight someone who's really good. F- it, there's levels and levels and levels, and the levels are changing all the time. The levels are moving up all the time. If you just go back to the Ultimate Fighter Season 1, that's 2005. That's not that long ago in regular sports. 2005 boxers look pretty similar to 2026 boxers.

    25. SPSpeaker1:17:23

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:17:24

        You know? Pretty fucking similar at the world championship level. In MMA, man, there's no comparison. It's nuts.

    27. SPSpeaker1:17:30

        Night and day.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:17:31

        Night and day, and these guys are getting better all the time. I see guys coming off the Contender Series, I'm like, "Okay, this guy looks like a world champion, like right now."

    29. SPSpeaker1:17:40

        It's crazy.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:17:41

        That Ethan Ewing kid, that guy comes out of nowhere.
12. 1:50:26 – 1:56:54

    Fight predictions and card talk: Islam vs Ian Garry, Dern vs Robertson, and prospects

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:50:26

       Jamie, pull up that card, the, um, the one this weekend, so we can take a look at it. Yeah. Um, what do you think about the Ian Garry-Islam fight, if you had to predict?

    2. SPSpeaker1:50:39

       If I had to predict, I mean-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:50:40

       If you're, like, on the UFC desk, and they put you on the spot.

    4. SPSpeaker1:50:43

       Okay. Islam Makhachev did a really good job neutralizing, uh, JDM's boxing. Didn't really give him an opportunity to do anything. He chopped his legs away with the, the calf kicks. Um, controlled him in the clinch. The takedowns were relatively easy. He didn't even really have to set it up with, like, hands. He kinda just shot and just took him down at will. Um, Ian Garry, now, on the other hand, he's done a good job of showing takedown resilience. Uh, we saw that with Belal Muhammad. Is Belal Muhammad Makhachev? No.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:51:14

       No.

    6. SPSpeaker1:51:14

       He's not.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:51:15

       No.

    8. SPSpeaker1:51:15

       Um, but it, it definitely showed something. He did a good job with Shavkat as well, who's a bigger guy, uh, was able to defend a bunch of times. Uh, I forgot if it was Shavkat who had his back, but he was able to defend.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:51:26

       Shavkat's the guy who beat him.

    10. SPSpeaker1:51:28

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:51:28

        So Shavkat is the one loss that he has, and it was the grappling-

    12. SPSpeaker1:51:32

        Yes

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:51:32

        ... that Shavkat got him with, but he also blew out Shavkat's knee.

    14. SPSpeaker1:51:35

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:51:35

        Like, that's why Shavkat has had all these surgeries.

    16. SPSpeaker1:51:37

        That oblique kick.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:51:38

        Mm-hmm. That, that kick is so nasty. That's the one thing that I wonder, like, should we not have that?

    18. SPSpeaker1:51:44

        You don't like-

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:51:44

        Should we-

    20. SPSpeaker1:51:45

        ... JDM, you don't really like that one.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:51:46

        I, it's, you can't... I mean, you can defend it by d- not getting hit by it. But the problem is, if you get hit by it, like Khalil Rountree and Modestas Bukauskas, when he went s-

    22. SPSpeaker1:51:56

        Oh

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:51:57

        ... turned his knee sideways.

    24. SPSpeaker1:51:58

        He stomped that thing.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:51:59

        Stomped it, and that's, that's a career changer. Like, it could be a career ender. Bukask- Bukauskas came back, but...

    26. SPSpeaker1:52:07

        But this is two years now, right?

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:52:08

        Yeah.

    28. SPSpeaker1:52:08

        For, for Shavkat that he's been out?

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:52:10

        Yep. He's had multiple surgeries. He ha- he had it done, and then it blew out again, and had to get it done again.

    30. SPSpeaker1:52:16

        Yeah. I, I just don't know. The, the range, the reach advantage. I think Ian does a great job of using his lateral footwork.
13. 1:56:54 – 2:03:22

    Career longevity, KO trauma, and why recovery time matters

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:56:54

       coming into his own as an MMA guy, and part of the reason is 'cause he's down there in Connecticut with, with, uh, Glover and with Alex, and he's doing camps with those guys. So, like, his grappling's now on point.

    2. SPSpeaker1:57:06

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:57:06

       Much more confident on the feet, much more stable. But before that, I thought Manzur was a real potential world champion.

    4. SPSpeaker1:57:14

       Yes. But it's just so crazy. You can see somebody in one fight and then see him in the next one, and you're just like, "All right."

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:57:20

       It was a bad loss, too. It was a bad loss.

    6. SPSpeaker1:57:22

       It wasn't good. He got-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:57:22

       It was a lot of like... See if we can find that fight

    8. SPSpeaker1:57:25

       ... leg, leg kicks. He did jabs.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:57:27

       He, he got, he got beat up. So it was... The thing was the amount of damage that he took, 'cause he's so tough, the amount of damage he took before they stopped the fight was pretty extraordinary. There was a lot of damage.

    10. SPSpeaker1:57:37

        I was hoping he could get the fight down at least once.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:57:40

        Right.

    12. SPSpeaker1:57:40

        But he, yeah, he couldn't. It was, uh, it was a tough... [sighs] This part.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:57:46

        There's a lot of guys-

    14. SPSpeaker1:57:47

        This part gets so fucked [laughs]

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:57:47

        ... at 185 that are a fucking problem, man. A lot of guys at 85 that are a real problem.

    16. SPSpeaker1:57:53

        But we need that in those divisions.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:57:54

        Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker1:57:54

        'Cause those divisions have been so thin for so long.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:57:57

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SPSpeaker1:57:57

        Like, there's a couple of guys, right? But now you're starting to see more, like, even, like, the lower weight classes. A guy who's unranked like a Ethan Ewing.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:58:03

        Right. Right.

    22. SPSpeaker1:58:04

        Right? And you're like, "I'm excited about this division 'cause I wanna see how far he could go." You got a guy like Manzur, and I can't for say the other guy's name. Um, Abdul? No, um, that's Manzur.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:58:13

        Bulgari?

    24. SPSpeaker1:58:14

        Bulgari.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:58:14

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SPSpeaker1:58:15

        You got these two guys coming up.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:58:16

        Well, you got Attiba Gottier. How about that motherfucker?

    28. SPSpeaker1:58:18

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:58:19

        He puts guys into orbit.

    30. SPSpeaker1:58:20

        He fought our guy, uh, Ozzy Diaz, the last one.
14. 2:03:22 – 2:09:49

    Sterling’s next steps: title-shot hopes at 145, media friction, and life in Vegas

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:03:22

       coach.

    2. SPSpeaker2:03:23

       That's cool.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:03:24

       But you know what I'm saying? Like, if a guy is elite already, and already a dog, and you give him just some different things to concentrate on, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. What I think is, if you need it, it shows me that there's an issue, and sometimes that issue can never be fixed. There's some guys that when the going gets tough, they find a way out.

    4. SPSpeaker2:03:47

       That's, that's where I'm getting at.

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:03:48

       Yeah.

    6. SPSpeaker2:03:49

       I agree with you. If you need it, there's nothing wrong with it. But I also know that there's a place in there that if I could get the right key to unlock that door-

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:03:58

       [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker2:03:59

       ... it's gonna be bad. [laughs]

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:04:01

       Yeah.

    10. SPSpeaker2:04:01

        It's gonna be bad. [laughs]

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:04:03

        [laughs] You're always joking people. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right, and I don't know. I mean, um, Sean Brady had a mental coach, and, uh, you know, there's moments where Sean Brady is a motherfucker.

    12. SPSpeaker2:04:16

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:04:17

        Right? Like, the Joaquin Buckley fight. Like, holy shit, dude.

    14. SPSpeaker2:04:20

        That Leon Edwards...

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:04:21

        Oh, my God. Ex- extraordinary. But then Morales. But the problem is Morales is a fucking light heavyweight.

    16. SPSpeaker2:04:28

        He's huge.

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:04:29

        Gigantic. You wanna talk about the one guy that is, like, the poster boy for cutting weight, it's Morales. He's so big for 170. It's, it doesn't even make sense.

    18. SPSpeaker2:04:41

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:04:41

        You see him in the octagon, you're like, "That's a light heavyweight." Or at the very least, a very big middleweight.

    20. SPSpeaker2:04:46

        No, for sure. He's a big dude.

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:04:48

        And he's welterweight.

    22. SPSpeaker2:04:49

        And to see him and Brady in there is like, this is not the same weight class.

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:04:53

        It seemed like it wasn't.

    24. SPSpeaker2:04:54

        He got the, he got a big back. But I'm looking at him like...

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:04:57

        But then, look what Brady did to a former world champion in Leon Edwards, who's a good grappler. I mean, Leon took down Kamaru Usman. Leon can grapple. He's a good grappler. But there's levels, and Sean Brady's on another level when it comes to that. And what he did to Buckley was just bananas. It looked like he was in a training room, you know?

    26. SPSpeaker2:05:15

        [laughs]

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:05:16

        Right when he was on top of him, it was, looked like he was, like, working a heavy bag drill. It was crazy.

    28. SPSpeaker2:05:20

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:05:20

        Like, had no fear whatsoever of getting shook off. It was like, "There is not a chance in hell you're getting me off you, so I'm just gonna work my cardio and beat your ass."

    30. SPSpeaker2:05:30

        Which is fascinating, 'cause he's so strong and explosive. You would think he would be able to get up.
15. 2:09:49 – 2:18:27

    Chess obsession, Balkan travel stories, and building Funk Harbor beyond fighting

    1. SPSpeaker2:09:49

       I play chess.

    2. JRJoe Rogan2:09:50

       You play chess, too?

    3. SPSpeaker2:09:51

       I play chess.

    4. JRJoe Rogan2:09:52

       Are you good?

    5. SPSpeaker2:09:52

       I'm about a 1400... I'm about a 1350 to 1420 Elo.

    6. JRJoe Rogan2:09:57

       Is that good?

    7. SPSpeaker2:09:58

       It's supposed to be good. Decent for, like... I'm not like a grandmaster, which is, like, 2500 or s- some shit, or 3,000.

    8. JRJoe Rogan2:10:04

       How often do you play?

    9. SPSpeaker2:10:05

       Every day.

    10. JRJoe Rogan2:10:06

        Really?

    11. SPSpeaker2:10:07

        Every day, but I play five-minute games 'cause it's similar to, like, a fight. Like, you gotta know and make your strategies, make your attacks. Some guys, they play 10-minute games. I'm like, "Bro, I'm too busy to play 10-minute games." I gotta-

    12. JRJoe Rogan2:10:17

        Where did you learn?

    13. SPSpeaker2:10:19

        I started playing after COVID, during COVID, when Queen's Gambit came out.

    14. JRJoe Rogan2:10:23

        Ah.

    15. SPSpeaker2:10:23

        And I used to think chess was like, "Oh, that's a gay s- that's a gay thing." It was like-

    16. JRJoe Rogan2:10:28

        [laughs]

    17. SPSpeaker2:10:28

        ... so stupid. Play checkers like a man. And I'm like, "Oh."

    18. JRJoe Rogan2:10:30

        What? Play checkers like a man-

    19. SPSpeaker2:10:31

        Yeah. [laughs]

    20. JRJoe Rogan2:10:31

        ... is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    21. SPSpeaker2:10:33

        Yeah. [laughs] Then I realized real quick, I was like, "Oh, this is, this is some high-level shit. This is not for stupid people. This is for intellects."

    22. JRJoe Rogan2:10:40

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker2:10:40

        Like, you have to understand what you're actually doing, strategizing, setting people up. Kinda like a fight.

    24. JRJoe Rogan2:10:45

        It's a fascinating game. Um, George was playing James McCann. James McCann's a hilarious comedian from, uh, Australia. And George and James is very smart and a really good chess player, and George and him were going to war in the green room of the Mothership, and we were all like, "Whoa, shit."

    25. SPSpeaker2:11:02

        The board?

    26. JRJoe Rogan2:11:02

        Yeah. Yeah, they had a board. Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker2:11:04

        Oh, man.

    28. JRJoe Rogan2:11:05

        Guys play at the Mothership all the time. Brian Simpson and Tony Hinchcliffe play all the time.

    29. SPSpeaker2:11:09

        Okay.

    30. JRJoe Rogan2:11:10

        Yeah. They, they get serious about chess.

Episode duration: 2:49:07