JRE MMA Show #185 with Ethyn Ewing

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 2:03

   Professor FinesseR: brand, nickname, and breakout UFC debut vs. Malcolm Wellmaker

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] My man, good to see you.

   2. EEEthyn Ewing0:13

      It's good to be here.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      I like your shirt.

   4. EEEthyn Ewing0:15

      I appreciate it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Professor FinesseR, is that your Professor FinesseR line?

   6. EEEthyn Ewing0:19

      This is one of my designs of my, uh, Professor FinesseR line. Got the cross guard there.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      I like it.

   8. EEEthyn Ewing0:25

      Little Joe Rogan here.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      That's dope.

   10. EEEthyn Ewing0:26

       We got a couple different symbols. Something that I'm building up, I wanna get out to the people.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       It's a cool nickname.

   12. EEEthyn Ewing0:32

       It's, uh, it's unique for sure. It's, it came about a funny way, but I like it. It's, the mantra that it brings to the fight game and to who I am is, is perfect.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Well, it's finesse, and you fight with a lot of finesse. You know, um, so we should start from your UFC debut, because, uh, that was when you really burst onto the scene. You fought this guy, Malcolm Wellmaker, who's a killer, vicious knockout puncher, and had a ton of hype behind him because of his performance. Was it the Contender Series where he had the big performance?

   14. EEEthyn Ewing1:05

       Uh, it was all three of them.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Yeah.

   16. EEEthyn Ewing1:06

       Conten- Contender Series he knocked that dude out.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       Mm-hmm.

   18. EEEthyn Ewing1:08

       Fly, and then, uh, I don't remember who it was second, but then it was Chris Mutino was the third one-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       Yeah

   20. EEEthyn Ewing1:14

       ... that, that he knocked out like that.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:15

       And, um, you put on a show, man, and nobody had heard of you. And that's one of the craziest things about this sport, is that there can be a guy like you that's learning and growing on, in the shadows, and then they get the call, and on I think it was two days' notice?

   22. EEEthyn Ewing1:31

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       So two days' notice, you fought above your weight, 'cause, uh, you're a bantamweight normally, and you fought at featherweight. And dude, you just... It was, it wasn't just that you fought a guy who was this vicious striker, it was the calmness and the technique and the smoothness of it all that was so impressive. And I was like, "This guy's different." Like, y- the way you fight is very intelligent, and I love that. I love watching a guy who's just all technique and, and movement, and you're, you're the epitome of that.

3. 2:03 – 8:07

   Why finesse wins long-term: ‘hit and don’t get hit’ vs. crowd-pleasing brawls

   1. EEEthyn Ewing2:03

      Ah, I appreciate it. Um, that's something I pride myself on. That's, I think, uh, maybe it's because I've, I've delved into more of a boxing realm with perfecting the striking and, and really focusing on, um, that, that technical aspect, that style. But yeah, it's, uh, to me, to watch guys go in there and just brawl it out and say, uh, you know, "Let's see who can take more punches before the other guy drops," is, is just silly to me. It's, it's like you said, I like to fight with finesse. I like to hit and not get hit, and champions don't take return fire. So, um, I hope to have a lot of longevity with this game, and, uh, yeah, that's why I fight that way. I-

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:44

      Well, that, that is the formula for longevity.

   3. EEEthyn Ewing2:46

      Right.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:46

      I was having a conversation with Fedor, the guy who's sitting next to us-

   5. EEEthyn Ewing2:50

      Mm-hmm

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:50

      ... who's, uh, one of the best pool players in the world, and he's getting... We just got back from Ways to Well, so shout out to Brigham and all the people at Ways to Well for taking care of us. Um, but he, uh, and I were talking about fighters and about it's very similar to I think everything, whether it's pool or golf or... And there's the people that really focus on technique and fundamentals and, and really objectively look at what they're doing and refine it. And we were talking about guys who just stand in front of each other and blast each other. I'm like, "Look, the crowd will cheer. They will love to see you, but your career will be shorter and the end will be bad."

   7. EEEthyn Ewing3:29

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:29

      The end will be bad. And, and then you'll probably fight past the time where you should, and no one's gonna stop you. They're gonna, you know, maybe you have one or two close friends that'll tell you when you're gonna hang 'em up. But a lot of coaches let guys fight way too long, and I think the organization lets guys fight way too long. There's a few guys that, in the past at least, I've, I've seen them on the lineup in a upcoming fight. I'm like, "Oh, God." And then I see who he's fighting and I'm like, "Oh, God."

   9. EEEthyn Ewing3:55

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:56

       Like, I don't wanna see this guy take any more punishment. I don't... You know, enough is enough, and th- those styles of just face-first, just attacking, boy, the audience loves you, and that's a trap.

   11. EEEthyn Ewing4:07

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:07

       That is a real trap.

   13. EEEthyn Ewing4:09

       Yeah. I mean, 100%. And, and I think that's, it's almost a little frustrating that the, like, general public gives that kind of energy to that kind of a match. Sure, I get it. It's exciting. You wanna see blood spilled. Like, people just really enjoy the chaos of all that and all the movement and the energy that goes into it. But yeah, you're, you're foregoing that whole technical aspect, like the perfection of controlling the dance from the beginning to the end and everything in between, you know? It's, and it's almost just like a, like an educated street brawl. You're getting' in there and just swinging and going crazy, and to me, that's not what martial arts is. I mean, it's, it literally is the, the chase of perfection to it, of, you know, like, the, the hit and don't get hit. That is the art of, of boxing, but the art of striking in martial arts. You know, you wanna be, yeah, near, near perfect in the way you engage, and this is land the damage and be able to cut those angles, m- move your head, pull out the distance, and not take any of that in return. And, uh, yeah, a, a lot of guys get, get cheered on initially, and so it's unfortunate that, um... Maybe it's not unfortunate, but you just, you just see it a lot that yeah, those guys get hyped up off the beginning and then all the other things happen, like you said.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:26

       Well, I mean, look, they are exciting. I love when guys fight like that, 'cause it's just crazy to watch. But I have to set aside the rational part of my brain that says, "This is not smart. This is not a good thing for them."

   15. EEEthyn Ewing5:37

       Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       And this is, there's no future in this. It, eventually it's gonna catch up to you.

   17. EEEthyn Ewing5:41

       Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, if I watch these guys, you know, get after it, like Roman Puga versus, uh, his opponent on the Dana White Contender Series this last Tuesday, I believe it was-

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       Oh, yeah, that was crazy

   19. EEEthyn Ewing5:50

       ... dude, I mean, I've trained with Roman a little bit here and there. He's f- from the same area as me, and, uh, yeah, the guy's, the guy's very skillful, but at the end of the day, both those guys walked out of there just busted up. I mean, they went straight to the hospital, and it's fantastic to watch, but from a fighter's perspective, at least from someone who's en- engaging in this on the same level as they are, yeah, I, I, uh- I don't know. That's why I like, you know, a little bit more of that precise style with the boxing specifically, I guess. I've really drawn a lot of aspects from it.

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:21

       Oh, for sure. I mean, there's, there's an art to, like, a fighter that fights with style and a f- a fighter that fights with finesse. Like, I always go to Izzy in his prime. Adesanya in his prime when, when he was just styling on dudes.

   21. EEEthyn Ewing6:38

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:38

       I mean, it was a beautiful thing to watch. It was, it was, it was like a dance. It was c- almost like he was coordinating them.

   23. EEEthyn Ewing6:46

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan6:46

       You know? He was moving them into his strikes, and everything was like feints. They were all, like, very specific to gauge reactions.

   25. EEEthyn Ewing6:53

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan6:54

       And he'd put it all into the computer, and the next thing you know, he's tuning you up.

   27. EEEthyn Ewing6:58

       Right. Yeah. I mean, uh, he's dancing his way out-

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       Yeah [laughs]

   29. EEEthyn Ewing7:02

       ... into the octagon, and then he's dancing in there, you know?

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:04

       Yeah.
4. 8:07 – 10:46

   Blending pressure wrestling with elite boxing: evolving style and lowering heart rate

   1. EEEthyn Ewing8:07

      Yeah. Yeah, and, um, it's taken a lot of experience, a lot of growth, a lot of seeing different things 'cause when I was a wrestler, it was the Iowa style of wrestling that I emulated and that I hope to emulate, which is, is just get in your face. It's break you down, break your spirit, break you physically, just completely wipe you out with just outstanding pressure, you know? And I think I suffered with the finesse, with the little bit of the technicality of, of setting things up and being smooth because I was just clubbing on your head, snapping people down, going, going, going, and I've r- I refined that. I've, I've pulled back from that almost, almost too much, I would say, to where if I'm, if I'm striking with someone, I don't even wanna engage in, like, a, a battle of physicality. These guys try to push and move and get up, and I'm like, you know, I, I'll sit and I'll dance and I'll roll up and I'll, I'll shut them down real quick, and I'm steering them off and I'm throwing really quick, and they try to get physical where they're really trying to make it, you know, a high pace and, and, and just more physical. I, I don't wanna engage with that at all. I wanna steer from beginning to the end. I wanna keep my heart rate as low as possible. I wanna land shots, and then I wanna be back to sitting and, and like you said, covering a distance, controlling everything where I can sit, I can take my breath, and I can see what's coming next, and then I can move accordingly. And so, you know, after being out for a little bit of time, I'm now even elevated another ex- um, yeah, to a, to another greater extent in my own mind that I'm now starting to combine the two things to where before I, I wouldn't say I shied away from it. You know, I'm, I'm a tough guy. If, if we wanna get physical and if it needs to go to that, I'm there all day. I, you know, don't get me wrong with that, but, um, I'm, I'm finding that middle ground where I was, I was too much of that Iowa style without the finesse. Now I was trying to be all skillful, all finesse, dance around, the Muhammad Ali shuffle, throw that flicker jab, be out of range, you know, and, and not want to engage in the physicality too much, and now I've elevated once again to where I'm finding that perfect middle ground that, you know, if I... I'm, I'm letting my ego go in the gym to where if we do get into that physicality or someone gets me with something, if it doesn't look perfect, I'm not sitting there thinking, "Oh, I need to look perfect and, and avoid these things." Now I'm just sending it and getting after it. So yeah, it's, it's an ever-evolving game, and, uh, I'm just getting better all the time with everything. So you'll never see me go in there and brawl anybody, but you'll see less hesitation. You'll see, uh, more precise shots, and then all the other finesse will always be there.

5. 10:46 – 14:33

   Ego-less training and learning from killers: Rutolo brothers, scrambles, and facing weaknesses

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:46

      Well, it is a constant work in progress, right? And I think that's one of the more interesting things about MMA, is that you see a fighter when they first start fighting in the UFC, and then you see as fights go on and they get more fights, they get more confidence, they get more experience, and they also get significantly better. You know? It's, it's kind of rare that you see athletes in a sport, generally speaking, when they get to a certain professional level, they're kind of already at their peak.

   2. EEEthyn Ewing11:13

      Mm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:13

      And they might get a little better, but in MMA in particular, you see dramatic improvement in fighters over the course of four or five years, especially if they have good management and good training.

   4. EEEthyn Ewing11:24

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:24

      And one of the things that you're talking about is, like, letting your ego go in the gym. That, that is so important. It's so important to recognize that training is for learning, and it's not, you're not trying to win every training session. You're not trying to win fights. You're trying to get better at winning actual fights, and sometimes getting better at winning actual fights is addressing whatever weird weaknesses or weird, uh, p- places where you're not as comfortable and getting comfortable there. And the best way to do that is to just force yourself into those situations.

   6. EEEthyn Ewing11:51

      Yeah, 100%.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:51

      It's hard to do, though, 'cause guys wanna be dominant. They wanna, you know, you don't wanna lose a training session. You don't wanna give, you know, this guy that you're sparring with the, the impression that he can kick your ass.

   8. EEEthyn Ewing12:01

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:02

      So you wanna get it back on him, but sometimes it's smart to not.

   10. EEEthyn Ewing12:05

       Yeah, 100%. I mean, I'm, I'm over there, uh, the Rutolo brothers are training over there at CSW with Eric Paulson right now, and yeah, it's like-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:13

       Those guys are phenomenal.

   12. EEEthyn Ewing12:16

       Yeah, they're the best in the world at what they do, you know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:18

       They're so fun to watch. Those guys could put jujitsu on the map.

   14. EEEthyn Ewing12:22

       Oh, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:22

       'Cause the Rutolo brothers, like, when they do jujitsu, it is, like, this chaotic, exciting, like, very kinetic, very technical d- Path to your neck

   16. EEEthyn Ewing12:35

       Right

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:35

       You know?

   18. EEEthyn Ewing12:36

       Yeah

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:36

       That's what it is. It's just this constant path to your neck

   20. EEEthyn Ewing12:38

       Dude, and they got these monkey arms that it can just wrap around your neck and get that D'Arce choke from anywhere, man. It's ridiculous

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       Long arms are awesome

   22. EEEthyn Ewing12:46

       Those long arms are insane

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       Such an advantage. Like, Roger Gracie had that

   24. EEEthyn Ewing12:49

       Yeah

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:49

       A lot of guys have that

   26. EEEthyn Ewing12:50

       Yeah

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:50

       A lot of, like, the best D'Arce guys. Khamzat has that

   28. EEEthyn Ewing12:53

       Right

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:53

       Those long arm guys. Fuck, man

   30. EEEthyn Ewing12:55

       Yeah. And then, like you said, like, their, their ability to... They, they almost, like, enforce the chaos because that's where they, they thrive at, you know?
6. 14:33 – 17:10

   Performance enhancement realities in jiu-jitsu, and how technique can offset strength

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:33

      Another great thing about those guys is they're totally natural, and in the jujitsu world, that's rare

   2. EEEthyn Ewing14:38

      Right

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:39

      That's really rare. Jujitsu's [laughs] a dirty sport, man

   4. EEEthyn Ewing14:42

      Yeah

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:42

      Or, you know, I mean, is it dirty if everyone's doing it? No. Let me say it this way. It's an enhanced sport

   6. EEEthyn Ewing14:48

      Right

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:49

      For the most part, the elite guys are on some Brazilian supplements

   8. EEEthyn Ewing14:53

      Yeah

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:53

      [laughs]

   10. EEEthyn Ewing14:54

       It's, it's legal, but they're all doing it. Yeah-

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:56

       Yeah

   12. EEEthyn Ewing14:56

       ... they're all juiced up, so

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:58

       I mean, it's kind of legal. Like, Abu Dhabi doesn't test. A lot of places don't test

   14. EEEthyn Ewing15:02

       Right

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:02

       So it's like y- and you see these guys, and there's no way, some of them. And, you know, kudos to guys like Gordon, like Gordon Ryan, who talks very openly about it.

   16. EEEthyn Ewing15:11

       Right

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:11

       He's like, "Everybody's on performance-enhancing drugs. Why would I not be on performance-enhancing drugs?"

   18. EEEthyn Ewing15:16

       Right

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:16

       "My goal is to be the absolute best that I can be, period."

   20. EEEthyn Ewing15:19

       Right

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:19

       You know, and the idea that the only reason why he's so good is 'cause of steroids is also equally ridiculous. Because when he was younger and when he was much smaller, he was winning tournaments left and right and beating world champions

   22. EEEthyn Ewing15:32

       Right

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       And d- he was totally natural

   24. EEEthyn Ewing15:34

       Yeah, I mean, there's, there's no way you can say someone like Gordon Ryan isn't the highest prowess of skillset for jujitsu, you know? Like, his technic- technicality and his abilities there are unquestionable. Yeah, what, I mean, what are you gonna do? If everybody else is, is on that level, you're now at a deficit if you're not taking it, so, um-

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       There's a few guys that don't, um-

   26. EEEthyn Ewing15:56

       And, and maybe, I don't know, obviously there's maybe some strength skill, s- or strength deficit there, but, uh, that's, that's why, again, going back to my style and, and what I like to do, like, the technicality and having that ability, there's, there's, there's just so many aspects to everything. But if you're that much more technical than someone, then that can negate size to some extent. That can negate, um, strength to some extent. Like, there's-

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       100%, yeah

   28. EEEthyn Ewing16:24

       ... there's, there's a lot of equalizers there. Now, you know, on, on the, on the opposite end, someone who's got that one-hitter quitter, they could be less technical, but they're always dangerous. If they hit you one time and you go to sleep, then all sins are forgiven. They could've got beat up for two rounds straight, and they knock you out, that's all the, the crowd remembers. So, uh, there's a, there's a lot that goes into it. But if you're that much more, you know, skilled in your technicality, that's, that's, you're gonna... To me, that's the best you can do. That's, that's really-

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       The really-

   30. EEEthyn Ewing16:56

       ... what you're chasing
7. 17:10 – 21:12

   Power vs. fundamentals: Wilder, ‘the great eraser,’ and hidden shots that KO

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:10

      But it's often not the case, though. That's what's interesting is power can be a curse, as can talent. Talent can be a cur- a curse, too. Because you don't work as hard because you fuck everybody up in the gym, and so you don't show up for practice sometimes. You still fuck these guys up. They're just not on your level physically or for whatever reason

   2. EEEthyn Ewing17:26

      Yeah

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:26

      And then there's guys that have that power that always just rely on that power and never really develop the fundamentals and so... Like, Deontay Wilder is a great example of that. Deontay Wilder, who I think is the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the history of the heavyweight division

   4. EEEthyn Ewing17:41

      Yeah

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:41

      That fucking [laughs] guy. Woo. And not a big guy

   6. EEEthyn Ewing17:45

      Yeah

   7. JRJoe Rogan17:45

      But his power is nuts, and Teddy Atlas has the greatest, uh, definition of it, d- description of it. He said, "It's the great eraser. Any mistakes he makes, one shot erases them all."

   8. EEEthyn Ewing17:58

      Yeah

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:58

      It's so true

   10. EEEthyn Ewing17:59

       Oh, 100%. Yeah, it's, uh... I agree. I mean-

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:04

       But could you imagine if Deontay could move like Tyson Fury?

   12. EEEthyn Ewing18:08

       Right

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:09

       If Deontay could box like Tyson Fury-

   14. EEEthyn Ewing18:10

       Yeah

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:11

       ... with also with that crazy, insane power

   16. EEEthyn Ewing18:13

       Yeah, it's, it's game over for everybody

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:14

       That's game over for everybody, or Usyk

   18. EEEthyn Ewing18:15

       Who stands in front of that guy?

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:16

       Yeah

   20. EEEthyn Ewing18:17

       Not a single person, you know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:18

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   22. EEEthyn Ewing19:33

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:34

       You know? I mean, and has that crazy stop, bang!

   24. EEEthyn Ewing19:37

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:37

       One shot, you're in another fucking dimension.

   26. EEEthyn Ewing19:40

       Yeah, and that's, you know, there's... And then, um, that's, that's obviously, like, at a personal level, like, it, some people are blessed with that talent, like you said.

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:50

       Yeah.

   28. EEEthyn Ewing19:50

       Or a skillset or athleticism.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:52

       Well, the power thing is just, it seems like it's a gift.

   30. EEEthyn Ewing19:55

       Yeah. No, it is. I mean-
8. 21:12 – 33:26

   Cardio, calmness, and weight-class realities: Holloway, Aldo, Conor, Ilia, and Volk

   1. EEEthyn Ewing21:12

      Yeah. I, I feel like, um, Max's, um, perspective on those two guys may be construed just because of... I mean, he fought Conor the first time, I guess, when Conor was in hi- his prime, you know, when he was coming up at 145.

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:25

      It was almost before his prime.

   3. EEEthyn Ewing21:27

      It was-

   4. JRJoe Rogan21:27

      You know?

   5. EEEthyn Ewing21:27

      It was on that rise.

   6. JRJoe Rogan21:28

      They were both kids. I think Max was 20 at the time.

   7. EEEthyn Ewing21:31

      Yeah. He was, I think he was, like, the youngest UFC fighter at that time or something.

   8. JRJoe Rogan21:34

      Mm-hmm.

   9. EEEthyn Ewing21:35

      Close to it.

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:35

       He was a different human back then.

   11. EEEthyn Ewing21:37

       For sure. But I just think, so, like, 'cause Conor's cardio is something that I have noticed. It wasn't, it wasn't super poor, like, initially. When he was fighting at 145, I mean, he, to me he never... Like, Chad Mendes, they had a lot of grappling exchanges. Chad took him down. Chad hit him with shots. You know, C- Conor just stayed nice, calm, cool, and collected, and, uh, he, he got back to the striking where he could do that. But to me, he never was, like, gassed out. But then you watch the second Diaz fight, and he's running around the cage for five rounds. Now he's gone up in a weight class. So then when, it goes back to, you know, what's his, what's his training regiment look like? He's, he's not-

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:15

       Yeah

   13. EEEthyn Ewing22:15

       ... cutting as much weight, so he doesn't have to be as much, as disciplined. His diet changes. There's a lot of aspects. So, like, I don't know, Con- the, the Conor one was, was weird to me just because I saw, I saw a change in it. When he was at 145, he, he didn't have poor cardio. As soon as he left that weight class, his cardio waned. And then Jose Aldo, I mean, that guy was undefeated for what? 10 years? Was champion for 10 years, and you never saw him get tired, and t- I never saw him get tired. Yeah, Max fought him at a certain point when he was a little bit older, this and that. So I don't know, maybe that's just Max's perspective on that. I'm not saying Max is incorrect in what he's saying, but, um, I don't know. I- there's, there's, to me, there's just, I, I haven't, um, pinpointed exactly what's the right and wrong way to do everything, just because there's so many variables, especially in MMA. I mean, we were kinda discussing it a little bit earlier is it's not just solely that you have, like, good cardio that allows you to continue to perform in that fight. There's another aspect of how calm, cool, and collected you can be. 'Cause, you know, like we were talking, hitting the mitts and something, if you're real tense and you're just trying to kill him, yeah, you're gonna burn yourself out. But if you're fast and snappy, you're producing just as much, if not more, power, and now you're being more efficient with it, you know? And so, um, I don't know. The cardio one is, is a, is a funky one in combat sports to me.

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:43

       It really is, but I think if you look at Jose Aldo, Jose Aldo, when he was on top, when he was the king, he was wrecking everybody.

   15. EEEthyn Ewing23:52

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:52

       And he was the hammer most of the time, and he was so athletic and so fast and had some of the best leg kicks we had ever seen. Like, the Uriah Faber fight, how fucking tough is Uriah Faber?

   17. EEEthyn Ewing24:03

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan24:03

       'Cause, like, that guy, many, many, many humans would've been stopped a long time ago just from those leg kicks, and Uriah just kept trying to the very last second of the-

   19. EEEthyn Ewing24:13

       Right

   20. JRJoe Rogan24:13

       ... b- even though he was way behind on the scorecards, never folded up his tent. He was still trying. But Aldo wasn't the nail. You know what I'm saying? Like, there was, there was very few moments in a fight where someone had really started overwhelming him. And one of the things that Max has always been so good at is knowing when to hit the gas and knowing when to just slowly ramp up the pressure, and you see guys start to fade, and Max is a cardio fucking machine.

   21. EEEthyn Ewing24:39

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan24:39

       I mean, super disciplined guy.

   23. EEEthyn Ewing24:41

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan24:41

       And great camp. Those guys in Hawaii really prepare him well. He is always, like, 100... Like the fight with Gaethje. Fighting in the fifth round of a fucking crazy, chaotic war j- the same exact pace he was fighting in the first round.

   25. EEEthyn Ewing24:56

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:57

       So it's the experience of knowing what your body can do, when you can hit the gas, when you need to back off, when to move, when not to, and when you feel your opponent start to fade a little bit. You see the mouth being open a little bit more. You see the movement looks a little sloppier.

   27. EEEthyn Ewing25:11

       Right. Oh, 100%. That's, yeah, knowing when to rest is, is a big aspect of that as well, 'cause you go and you... I mean, that's why a lot of the training you do is, is that short burst. You know, you hit like your sprints. Um, you know, you might maybe hit the straightaway on, on the track, and then you jog and maintain. 'Cause in a fight you're never completely resting, you're always moving a little bit. Um, so yeah, y- I mean that's, that's a huge thing, the experience. I think his, his style and, and just what he's created, like you said, in his camp is, is a high output, high volume individual, so, you know, his body's probably, um, become used to that. A- and that's, that's how he performs normally.

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:50

       Yeah, I was shocked that Conor wanted to fight him in his first fight back after years off. I mean, five years is a long time to not fight, and then to come back and fight a guy like Max, who's been constantly fighting-

   29. EEEthyn Ewing26:04

       Yeah

   30. JRJoe Rogan26:04

       ... the best guys in the world. And knowing that Max is a guy who never fades, and he's in very dif- I mean, the only guy who's really gotten him out of there is Ilia. And, you know, Ilia caught Max when Max went down from 55 down to 45, which I think was a, a mistake. He was so big.
9. 33:26 – 40:06

   Ethyn’s short-notice readiness: fighting the week before MSG and staying in camp year-round

   1. JRJoe Rogan33:26

      ... when you came in on two days notice to fight Welmaker, were you in training at all? Like, what was your scenario?

   2. EEEthyn Ewing33:33

      Uh, I was doing, uh, food eating championship training.

   3. JRJoe Rogan33:36

      [laughs]

   4. EEEthyn Ewing33:37

      Was killing, uh, Double-Doubles and 3x3s. No, but with that one I was, I was fortunate because, um, I, I stay strict pretty much year-round. So I fought, fought in January, um, at the beginning of the year, and then I was supposed to fight multiple times and I just had, I had two or three opponents pull out. And then I fought November 7th for the title fight for the A1 Combat, which was literally the weekend before. So fortunately I did, I was, even though people were falling out, I s- I kept to the course, I stayed strong, I stayed in a fight camp mentality. That November 7th fight ended up happening, so I had a strong two months. Now, still, even that one-week difference of going, being in a fight camp and then I have a couple drinks at the casino, I'm eating food. And I thought to myself, because January was, it was a similar thing where they said, "February, Australia, get ready, get your passport. Let's look into this," blah, blah, blah. You know, I'd had a, had a nice knockout finish there. Um, but then yeah, just that one week of being off of, of eating whatever I wanted to and just kinda doing whatever. I, I ran once. I showed up to sparring and light touch sparred. Um, I had gotten to one other practice 'cause in my mind I was like, "I need to be somewhat ready for this." Like, I can have, I can have a week. I've been in fight camp all year long. I can have one week, and then that's the week that they call-

   5. JRJoe Rogan35:04

      [laughs]

   6. EEEthyn Ewing35:04

      ... and say, "48 hour notice, MSG, 10 and 0 undefeated Malcolm Welmaker. You want it?" And, uh, and then of course I'm gonna, can't say no to that one.

   7. JRJoe Rogan35:13

      So had you fought the weekend before the Welmaker fight?

   8. EEEthyn Ewing35:15

      I fought November 7th, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan35:17

      Wow. That's actually good.

   10. EEEthyn Ewing35:20

       It, it was-

   11. JRJoe Rogan35:20

       If you didn't get hurt.

   12. EEEthyn Ewing35:21

       Yeah. Well, it was a minute and 30 seconds.

   13. JRJoe Rogan35:25

       Oh.

   14. EEEthyn Ewing35:25

       I knocked him out in the first round, so it was, it was, to me it's just the stars aligned. I mean...

   15. JRJoe Rogan35:30

       Don't you think it's also good that you just had the experience like seven days prior to the whole thing, getting in the cage, cage shots, you just fought, so it's much more comfortable for you than if you had, like Conor taking five years off. As elite as Conor is, double champ, one of the greatest of all time, for that g- even a guy like that, you take five years off and you could see, like, what it did to him. It's like it fucked with his head.

   16. EEEthyn Ewing35:55

       Oh, yeah. You could, you could see it. It w- there wasn't the same Conor energy going into it. Uh, of course, I, I always want a quick turnaround, like after I fight just for that very reason. I, I, I cut the weight. I know what that's like. I warmed up in the back with all the anticipation, you know, and that energy flowing through my body. I walked out in front of the crowd. They announced my name. I, and I got in there. I, I actually fought someone. So yeah, if you have that going for you, then that's, yeah, it's way, way better for sure.

   17. JRJoe Rogan36:28

       Yeah, the more active you can be, the more comfortable you can be with the experience as long as you're not getting hurt. Yeah, here's a stat that I was, uh, reading about Izzy. Um, and people forget about this. When he was the champion, he defended his title a lot, man. He was the guy that they can go, "Hey, we need someone to headline this card," and Izzy would step in.

   18. EEEthyn Ewing36:48

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan36:48

       And he, I think he fought three ti- he defended it, the world title three times in one year, which is crazy 'cause I don't think the middleweight title since he's gone has even been con- like, how many middleweight fights have there even been for the title since he's been gone? There's only been a few fights. I think there's only been-

   20. EEEthyn Ewing37:09

       I mean, there's Sean and, and-

   21. JRJoe Rogan37:11

       And Dricus

   22. EEEthyn Ewing37:12

       ... Dricus.

   23. JRJoe Rogan37:12

       Sean and Dricus two, uh, Dricus and Khamzat.

   24. EEEthyn Ewing37:17

       And then Sean and Khamzat are-

   25. JRJoe Rogan37:18

       And Sean and Khamzat. I mean, it might literally be like maybe five fights- Since he's lost the title, and fuck, he defended it more than anybody

   26. EEEthyn Ewing37:28

       Right. Yeah, which is crazy. He defended it three times in one year.

   27. JRJoe Rogan37:30

       Yeah

   28. EEEthyn Ewing37:31

       And then you have this, you know, huge span of time in between defenses

   29. JRJoe Rogan37:35

       But then there's the question of, like, what is the str- uh, when does it become a benefit, and when does it become a detriment? Like, when, when you're fighting too many times a year, like the Merab Dvalishvili fight. Um, one of the things that a lot of people talked about after Petr Yan beat him in the rematch was, "What about the strength of schedule?" I mean, Merab was fighting constantly. He was fighting... He fought so often and for so many years that you gotta think that at a certain point in time, maybe he's doing himself a disservice by being so active

   30. EEEthyn Ewing38:08

       Yeah. I mean, for sure. Um, I don't know. I mean, that's, it's something you gotta feel out for yourself, you know?
10. 40:06 – 1:18:48

    Injuries and smarter training: sparring size mismatches, meniscus damage, and knee rehab tools

    1. EEEthyn Ewing40:06

       There's been more time and experience into it. But yeah, 100%. I mean, you know, I, I was, before this April fight, I, the first round of the day of sparring, I was just going light with Callum Bisping for literally one second, and we moved around, and he's a heavyweight. We moved around. He took me, took, he tried to take me down. I stuffed it. He took me down, and I kinda just sat with it 'cause I didn't wanna get caught in any, you know, knee tweaking positions or anything 'cause he's just so much heavier than I am. And I sat into a butterfly, which is typically how I would do that, elevate the hips immediately and try to make a scramble, and my, my meniscus just popped instantly, right then and there. First round of the day, barely, barely had done anything, barely started, and it wasn't even, like, a, a crazy position, but yeah, now a sustained injury. Now I don't go against heavyweights anymore 'cause it's stupid

    2. JRJoe Rogan40:57

       Yeah, you should never be doing that

    3. EEEthyn Ewing40:59

       It's stupid

    4. JRJoe Rogan40:59

       As a bantamweight, you should not be sparring with heavyweights

    5. EEEthyn Ewing41:01

       Well, that's why I go the first day I'm, or not the first day, but the first round, and I'm just trying to warm up. There's, there's a lot of things to be said. I, I grow-

    6. JRJoe Rogan41:08

       Yeah

    7. EEEthyn Ewing41:08

       ... and I, and I learn, and I get smarter every time. I stay away from those guys

    8. JRJoe Rogan41:10

       I think you should only spar with guys that are reasonably close to your weight period

    9. EEEthyn Ewing41:13

       Yeah. 10, 10 pounds is probably a maximum above, above you.

    10. JRJoe Rogan41:16

        Yeah

    11. EEEthyn Ewing41:16

        You know, you shouldn't be going with anybody more than that

    12. JRJoe Rogan41:18

        Yeah

    13. EEEthyn Ewing41:18

        Yeah, I get, I get smarter with these things. You know, I, I do dumb things, and, uh, I figure for the, for the most of my history, I've had to learn the hard way with things, so, uh, I'm getting better at it. I'm getting smarter, so. But like I said, it was just a freak thing. It wasn't like we were going crazy hard or anything. Like, it just was the first round. I just trying to move and, and then some little thing happened like that

    14. JRJoe Rogan41:40

        How bad is it?

    15. EEEthyn Ewing41:41

        Uh, it wasn't a full, full tear, but it happened back in, like, February-ish, right before that, that April one.

    16. JRJoe Rogan41:47

        Mm

    17. EEEthyn Ewing41:47

        So leading up to the Esteban fight, it's like I didn't grapple till the, the last maybe, maybe month of it, maybe-

    18. JRJoe Rogan41:54

        Oh, so it was bothering you-

    19. EEEthyn Ewing41:55

        ... couple of weeks

    20. JRJoe Rogan41:55

        ... even before that fight

    21. EEEthyn Ewing41:56

        It was all the way up to it. I mean, like that's, that's when it happened was the April fight, which was the Esteban fight

    22. JRJoe Rogan42:01

        Wow. Wow

    23. EEEthyn Ewing42:02

        So yeah, it's, it's very difficult to avoid everything, you know? Like, there's a lot of different things that won't even seem like a detrimental position, but yeah, you got grappling, which can tweak all sorts of different parts of the body. Uh, a simple cut from, from striking can happen very easily. So for sure it's, it's much more abundant in the MMA world 'cause there are more weapons. There's a lot of variations of things to watch out for. Um, but that being said, I like to carry... Like I said, this is a smart man's game. I like to carry a, a level of, of business-wise and, and smart-wise to this, and that's... So though, though the, um, exact functions may differ, it's, it's the mindset that I like to carry from it

    24. JRJoe Rogan42:47

        Right. Is it... Well, it, what you said is perfect, that it's a long business. Boxing's been around for a long time, and the really elite trainers, the re- the really elite coaches, they know how to prepare their fighters, and they know what fights to take and when to take them

    25. EEEthyn Ewing43:01

        Right

    26. JRJoe Rogan43:01

        And unfortunately, with the UFC, like sometimes you get a call, like the Malcolm Wellmaker fight, you know? And you're like, "Oh shit, it would've been nice to get two months to prepare for Malcolm, but I have two days

    27. EEEthyn Ewing43:17

        Right

    28. JRJoe Rogan43:17

        ... and I just fought. Fuck it. Roll the dice." And you also were coming out of nowhere, and I don't think a lot of people had time to prepare for you. 'Cause as good as you are, when you fought Wellmaker, when you fought, uh- How do you say his name? Estevan. What is his-

    29. EEEthyn Ewing43:33

        Rafael Estevan

    30. JRJoe Rogan43:34

        ... Rafael Estevan. He was also undefeated.
11. 1:18:48 – 1:26:14

    Wrestling as the ultimate foundation: gas tanks, mental toughness, and MMA transfer

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:18:48

       And it w- that's the interesting thing about conditioning in general, is we have these id- ideas of what the threshold is, like what a human body's capable of doing for five minutes, for three rounds or five rounds, like in terms of what kinda pace that you could put up. And then you have certain guys that come along that sort of redefine what the threshold is, like Merab. Merab comes along, and here you got some guy whose gas tank is fucking superhuman, and he makes the best fighters in the world just wilt under the, this constant pressure of being taken down. And his strength and his, his, his skill as a wrestler is just this constant attack, constant, constant, constant, constant. And you wonder, like, okay, what, how long did it take to build up that reserve? How long did it take to build up that gas tank? That's not something you can achieve in just one camp.

    2. EEEthyn Ewing1:19:38

       Right.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:19:38

       Like, that's, that's something that takes literally years to develop.

    4. EEEthyn Ewing1:19:42

       Oh, for sure. That's why, I mean, like I said, going back to wrestling, my, my w- what I would say my superpower or my most utilized skill set was my, my cardio, my gas tank, you know? Um, and I don't know. I- what, what is it? Anabolic versus anaerobic, like the striking versus the grappling cardio.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:20:01

       Mm-hmm.

    6. EEEthyn Ewing1:20:03

       I think there's something to be said about that wrestling cardio, like, just that, like, strict you're just grinding it out 24/7. You know, you're always colliding, your muscles are always tensed up. I think there's something to be said about that, that if you had great wrestling cardio, you could do almost anything in the world.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:20:19

       Yeah. It builds up a, a foundation that's kind of unstoppable.

    8. EEEthyn Ewing1:20:23

       Right. If-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:20:24

       If you can maintain that kind of work ethic-

    10. EEEthyn Ewing1:20:26

        Right

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:20:26

        ... 'cause it's, it's a, it's insane. That's the other thing about it, it's the mental toughness that comes from wrestling.

    12. EEEthyn Ewing1:20:31

        Right.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:20:32

        There's some... Like, when a guy has, like, an elite wrestling background and he enters into the UFC, I always say they have an advantage. They have an advantage over everybody else because whether or not you choose to put yourself or you get coached by someone who puts you through hell in camp, with wrestling you don't have a choice. Like, everyone's going through hell.

    14. EEEthyn Ewing1:20:49

        Right.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:20:49

        There's no one to get... There's no easy path to get on the fucking wrestling team anywhere in the country.

    16. EEEthyn Ewing1:20:54

        Right.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:20:55

        It's-

    18. EEEthyn Ewing1:20:55

        Right, you have to wrestle for your, your position.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:20:57

        Yeah.

    20. EEEthyn Ewing1:20:57

        Like, it's literal you gotta, gotta battle for that, that spot, you know? And then the practice is once or twice a day of just purely grinding it out. Staying in a wrestling stance alone is extremely tough to do. Now you're doing it at elevated pace. Now you're doing it with someone snapping on your head. Now you're doing... It's like... And then you go and you, you do live wrestling and then finish it up with sprints. Yeah, to me, to me there's nothing that beats that. Like, and, and I think the s- the style of it is, like, go, go, go. Like, even jujitsu you're finding places to rest. You know, you can throw on a, in the guard and, and you can, you can rest at certain entanglements. Striking is all about being able to have an explosive motion and then find your way to, to be defensive, to slow down what they're doing. You're either, you're getting in, stuffing it, you're at a distance where you can be a little bit relaxed 'cause they can't reach you or, you know, you're, you're moving off, making the miss where there's no resistance there, you know? I... Just with wrestling you don't have any of that. There's, there's no chance for a break, especially if you've got someone like Merab who's just on you 24/7. And so to me that's, you know, back to the cardio thing we talked about earlier. I, I don't know. I, I think if you got, yeah, elite wrestling cardio, then you could do all the rest of it. You'd be able to strike, you'd be able to do the jujitsu entanglement. It's like you can hang for that duration of time with great cardio.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:22:18

        It's also if you could figure out how to be a great wrestler, you can kind of figure out anything. It's just a matter of taking that same focus that turned you into a great wrestler and applying it to whatever it is, MMA, whatever, whatever el- else you're trying to do. 'Cause if you're willing to go through what it took to become a great wrestler, that's an extraordinary human.

    22. EEEthyn Ewing1:22:36

        Right.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:22:36

        That's... Very few people ever reach a, a very high level of wrestling. It's just too [laughs] fucking hard.

    24. EEEthyn Ewing1:22:41

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:22:42

        And it's the best foundation for combat sports for sure, for MMA. Because if you can take a guy down and he can't take you down, that's a massive advantage.

    26. EEEthyn Ewing1:22:50

        Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:22:51

        Massive. You dictate where the fight takes place, and if you develop elite striking on top of that, it's a perfect combination.

    28. EEEthyn Ewing1:22:58

        Oh, for sure. I mean, a- anybody asking me personally, I would say get a wrestling background, get some boxing, and you can figure out the rest of it.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:23:07

        Yeah.

    30. EEEthyn Ewing1:23:07

        You can figure out how to check kicks, block kicks. You can, you can do the rest of it. But if you have those two fundamental core bases, yeah, you're, you're pretty good against most people.
12. 1:26:14 – 1:33:40

    Striking deep dive: jabs, calf-kicks, front kicks, and ONE’s striker ecosystem

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:26:14

       it's, it's hellacious.

    2. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:16

       Right.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:26:16

       You look at what happened to his toes.

    4. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:17

       Dude, that one, like- That takes it out of you. If you start smashing your toes like that and you gotta continue fighting-

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:26:22

       Oh, yeah

    6. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:22

       ... or you gotta continue into a fight camp with, like, broken toes.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:26:26

       Yeah.

    8. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:26

       Yeah. That's what one of my wrestling camps, I was chasing my brother in the front yard the day before, and his heel came back, and my pinky toe was like this, straight sideways.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:26:34

       [inhales]

    10. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:34

        Went to the, the family doctor. She [imitates winding] pulled it back.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:26:37

        Look at that.

    12. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:37

        Oh, yeah. I have a picture just like that, actually, with my fingers, my toes throwing west side.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:26:42

        Oh, look at that. Jesus. Ow. [laughs]

    14. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:46

        Yeah, that's, that's terrible.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:26:48

        Those feet have seen some elbows, son.

    16. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:50

        Right.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:26:51

        [laughs]

    18. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:51

        It's got a big old bunion, it's, everything on there.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:26:54

        Wow.

    20. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:54

        Yeah, that's, that's tough.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:26:56

        And he won.

    22. EEEthyn Ewing1:26:56

        That's, uh... He, he did in, in really good fashion too.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:27:01

        Yeah. There's a guy that's just, I don't understand how he makes 185.

    24. EEEthyn Ewing1:27:05

        Right.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:27:06

        I don't understand it.

    26. EEEthyn Ewing1:27:07

        That's-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:27:07

        Whenever I interview him, I'm like, "You're 220 pounds, sir."

    28. EEEthyn Ewing1:27:11

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:27:11

        How are you... You're at least 220, and shredded.

    30. EEEthyn Ewing1:27:15

        I know. I mean, it, it's like I guess the bigger guys have a little bit more to lose. They just, they probably float a little bit.
13. 1:33:40 – 1:41:07

    Early career losses and life reset: discipline, faith, and the ‘warrior lifestyle’ beyond fighting

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:33:41

       a nice right hand.

    2. EEEthyn Ewing1:33:41

       Oh.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:33:41

       And he stung him there.

    4. EEEthyn Ewing1:33:42

       Well, did you see their little-

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:33:43

       And then he goes to the body

    6. EEEthyn Ewing1:33:43

       ... like, table talk where they're-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:33:45

       Mm-hmm

    8. EEEthyn Ewing1:33:45

       ... sitting across from each other?

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:33:46

       Yes.

    10. EEEthyn Ewing1:33:47

        And, uh, he's all like, "It's not about, you know, like, how many times you can get hit or you can hit somebody. It's about how many times you can get hit and keep coming forward."

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:33:56

        Yeah.

    12. EEEthyn Ewing1:33:56

        And then, then Moises is like, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." He's like, "Why would you base your fighting style off, like, how many times you can get hit?" And then lo and behold, you know, like-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:34:04

        Exactly

    14. EEEthyn Ewing1:34:04

        ... this comes across. That's why, you know, I talk about technicality and finesse and, and skillset, and it's a game of hit and don't get hit. But dude, you could just have someone who's just so tough and just so willing that this is a perfect scenario that... That's, that's why there are so many aspects to this fight, Cam.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:34:23

        Well, it was really funny because he was basically quoting Rocky.

    16. EEEthyn Ewing1:34:26

        Yeah. Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:34:27

        [laughs] He really did quote Ro- "It ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit-

    18. EEEthyn Ewing1:34:32

        Right

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:34:32

        ... and keep moving forward."

    20. EEEthyn Ewing1:34:33

        Exactly.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:34:34

        And he, you know, and-

    22. EEEthyn Ewing1:34:35

        And he pulled a Rocky on him

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:34:36

        ... he literally did exactly what he said he was gonna do. But it's all these things. It's like youth and hubris and thinking you're the greatest of all time and, and looked like the greatest of all... Pull up a Moises Aitoma highlight reel 'cause if you look at his highlight reel, you're like, "This guy's the second coming." Like, he-

    24. EEEthyn Ewing1:34:52

        Right

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:34:52

        ... this guy is something really special, man. When you watch how he fights, I mean, i- his, his hand speed, his knockout power. And for a young guy, you know, this, this fight I think he was 20, and you look at his highlight reel, you're like, "Oh my God, the sky's the limit for this kid." He's just putting everybody out. But, you know, he wasn't really being tested, you know?

    26. EEEthyn Ewing1:35:14

        Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:35:14

        And then he finally, I think, was it Derek Chisora? Who did he fight before this fight? He finally beat a top level guy b- and he took him out. And so, but, you know, it was a guy who's a real veteran, been around a long time.

    28. EEEthyn Ewing1:35:30

        Uh-huh.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:35:31

        And he kind of thought that he could put it on everybody and knock everybody out. But, you know, this is like one of the things about any combat sport is you, you have to know when to hit the gas, when not to, and you have to have those experiences of these long, grueling fights, and he really didn't have that yet.

    30. EEEthyn Ewing1:35:51

        Right.
14. 1:41:07 – 1:45:34

    Mindset training, reading samurai philosophy, and avoiding attention traps

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:41:07

       Do you, uh, read a lot? Are you a guy who, do you, like, read any things on, on psychology or on warrior tactics? You ever get into, like, Book of Five Rings or any of that shit?

    2. EEEthyn Ewing1:41:20

       For sure. I'm reading, uh, it's called Hagakure right now, and it's essentially, um, it's a, it's a single individual, Yamamoto, it's like Tuni- Tunishi or something. I forget his name exactly. But, um, he served for, like, the, the reigning leader at the time. His leader passed away. He wanted to commit seppuku because he was of that, that mentality, that warrior mentality, but, um, his leader had, had commanded, like, that no one was allowed to do that. This and that, but he's taking a lot of storylines, inspirations from all these samurai, 'cause it's going into a time period where the samurai weren't a necessity anymore. And so the ideology, the lifestyle, what it meant to, to live that bushido lifestyle had changed a little, a little bit and their purpose was different. And, uh, my boxing coach gave it to me actually when I was kind of in this limbo state of, like, it's essentially saying how should a warrior live outside of the fight? You know, like, what does he need to be doing on a daily basis? And but then it's, it's... I, I like the real life, uh, like, storyline because now you're getting a bunch of different perspectives from all these people that were samurai. All were warriors who lived that, who, you know, fought in battle, and now you get to see, like, a lot of different things. Like, someone says, "You should do this," and someone says, "No, don't do that." And to me, I like that because I get to kind of delve through all the mindsets and then apply what works best to me, you know? But, um, I love, I love reading all that stuff. I've not been so good at staying off the phone and, and, you know, I watch a lot of YouTube, which is, it's always fighting or-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:42:59

       Mm-hmm

    4. EEEthyn Ewing1:43:00

       ... some kind of gun channel or hiking or camping or hunting or spearfishing or something. But, um, yeah, I, I'm trying to get way better at that, trying to stay off the screens. Like, I, I wanna be more interactive with the world around me, learning things constantly. And so picking up a book and, and reading it is along, along that set of goals that I have is continuously be doing that.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:43:23

       Yeah, I think there's benefits to a lot of stuff on YouTube. I think YouTube is not social media, and I think I learn a lot on YouTube. And I just get, it's, for me, I like to wind down on YouTube, just watch some ancient history thing or watch a professional pool match or something like that. It's just a wind down time, but it doesn't feel like I'm wasting time. Whereas if I'm looking at Instagram or Twitter or whatever, it s- it feels like I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing that's not beneficial.

    6. EEEthyn Ewing1:43:51

       Oh, 100%. That's, to me as I'm building up my platform and whatnot, I understand it as a business, and so I understand there's some necessity for me to be into it producing content, not necessarily taking in content. Uh, but yeah, 100%. It's, it's something that has, uh, affected our culture i- in a large way. It's, all the, the, uh, what's it called? Like, the short term, like, media-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:44:18

       Mm-hmm

    8. EEEthyn Ewing1:44:18

       ... you know, where you're clicking through it. It's just, it's killing our attention spans. It's, it's just, uh, like You know, your dopamine is, is firing at all times, going crazy. And you're getting this-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:44:30

       It's just, it robs your focus

    10. EEEthyn Ewing1:44:31

        ... yeah, you're getting this like-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:44:33

        Yeah

    12. EEEthyn Ewing1:44:33

        ... that's where, that's where I love the YouTube, but I almost have to recognize that just because I'm watching a spearfishing video doesn't mean I'm getting in the water and going and spearfishing. 'Cause sometimes I feel like I get my fix a little bit by doing that, but then I have to remind myself, it's like, no, life is lived i- in your actions and, and in your experiences. So sitting and watching the, the TV screen, somebody else experienced that. You know, you, you get the inside scoop, you get to kind of be there under the water, watch what's going on. But yeah, you're not actually living it. So I like it. I love, I love to, to learn from that. Social media, yeah, it's, it sucks. It's just zapping everybody and, uh-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:45:10

        It's certainly not a part of the warrior lifestyle-

    14. EEEthyn Ewing1:45:13

        Yeah

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:45:13

        ... as you were talking about-

    16. EEEthyn Ewing1:45:14

        Oh, for sure

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:45:14

        ... as the samurai lives

    18. EEEthyn Ewing1:45:15

        ... I mean, 'cause then, like you wanna think about like your, your meditative aspects of like how often are you delving deep into your own brain and just figuring out things about yourself and asking those questions and pushing beyond. And when you got a phone screen stealing all your attention, how are you ever doing that?

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:45:30

        Right. Yeah, absolutely. You're not. [laughs]

    20. EEEthyn Ewing1:45:34

        Yeah.

15. 1:45:34 – 2:07:47

    Outdoors, self-reliance, and the appeal of hunting: spearfishing, bowhunting, and feral hogs

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:45:34

       You're not, you know, if you're, if you're spending so much time doing that. You're a spearfisher guy, huh? You really like spearfishing?

    2. EEEthyn Ewing1:45:40

       I like to spearfish. I, uh... it's been some time since I've been back in the water. I had a buddy that we used to go all the time, and then he moved up to Washington and, uh, I don't know. I-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:45:49

       Where were you guys spearfishing?

    4. EEEthyn Ewing1:45:51

       Uh, we'd go local, like, uh, there's, uh, Corona del Mar Beach, and then there's a smaller kinda hidden beach that you walk down, and it's got plenty of structure and all sorts of fish out there. Uh, Laguna's got the kelp forest, so I've just been going shore diving and, uh, going over there, grabbing lobster when it's lobster season, grabbing down to the honey holes and just grabbing them with our hands. So just, it's all the shore stuff right now. I haven't been off a boat.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:46:18

       It's, uh, for my friends that have been hunting, they, they say they love it 'cause they say it's like hunting underwater.

    6. EEEthyn Ewing1:46:24

       Right.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:46:24

       That it's not really like fishing.

    8. EEEthyn Ewing1:46:26

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:46:26

       It doesn't... You call it spearfishing, but it feels like you're hunting.

    10. EEEthyn Ewing1:46:28

        It's, it's, yeah, it's, you're, you're in the action, you know? You get to pick and choose which fish you're gonna take, which one to let, to let go, and, uh, yeah, you're also... I like it because I like the primitive aspects. Like we talked about like a little bit of bow hunting before. I, I'm really enthralled with the bow hunting stuff over the rifle hunt 'cause, dude, you can sit at like three, four, sometimes guys are shooting about like at 500 yards with this big old rifle, and you're just smacking something. It's like that thing didn't even like ever know you were there. You know, you're just like propped up and there's a place for it I suppose, but having a bow and have to get up 30-ish yards, give or take, and having to make sure they're not catching your scent and having to, to perform the stalk. I like the primitive stuff. I like a, I like something that involves a skill set instead of just like a technological, uh, prowess.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:47:19

        No, I agree with you, obviously. I'm, I'm a big bow hunter. I don't think there's anything wrong with rifle hunting, and it's definitely the best way to acquire meat. If you're just g- going on a meat hunt and you just want to get your meat for the next few months, a rifle's the way to go. But if you want a real challenge, there's something that's way more special about a bow hunt. It's more difficult. It requires more practice, requires more of you. Like, uh, I went on a pig hunt, um, about a year or so ago with a friend of mine in California where we had, uh, had a successful elk hunt and then we went pig hunting, and I hadn't shot a rifle in two years, a year and a half, two years.

    12. EEEthyn Ewing1:47:59

        Okay.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:47:59

        Like not one shot with a rifle. Aced this pig at like 90 yards like it was nothing.

    14. EEEthyn Ewing1:48:05

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:48:05

        Boom, dropped him in his tracks. I'm like, "That was so easy."

    16. EEEthyn Ewing1:48:07

        Right.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:48:08

        In compare, I mean, all you have to do is get the crosshairs on him, don't flinch.

    18. EEEthyn Ewing1:48:12

        Right.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:48:12

        Squeeze the trigger slowly, make sure you're in a good position-

    20. EEEthyn Ewing1:48:16

        Yeah

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:48:16

        ... and know how to shoot a rifle, and once you know how to shoot a rifle, you ki- I mean, I'm not taking 1,000-yard shots, but-

    22. EEEthyn Ewing1:48:22

        Yeah

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:48:22

        ... you know how to shoot a rifle, it's pretty easy.

    24. EEEthyn Ewing1:48:24

        Right.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:48:24

        Compared, if I was bow hunting, I wouldn't even r- imagine if I hadn't shot a bow in a year and a half of even thinking about shooting something with a bow.

    26. EEEthyn Ewing1:48:31

        Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:48:32

        Not a chance in hell. I wouldn't even think about it for like months.

    28. EEEthyn Ewing1:48:35

        Right.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:48:35

        I would say, "I need to practice. I need to hit targets all the time. I need to make sure my shot is ac- I need to get my technique down. I'd wanna film myself, make sure I'm not doing anything stupid. Like, let me look at my form. Why, why is my elbow to the right? It should be above." I would, I would never imagine. Rifle's way easier, but the feeling of taking an animal down with a bow is a completely different feeling. It's so much harder to do. It's so much more exciting. And if you fail, it doesn't b- You know, I, many a hunt where you, seven days, nothing happens. Okay, that's just part of the thing.

    30. EEEthyn Ewing1:49:09

        Right.
16. 2:07:47 – 2:20:27

    MMA rules, promotions, and superfight fantasies—then back to Conor and the mental game

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:07:47

       Well, I think back then in the early days of fighting, there was a lot of promoters that were trying a bunch of different tactics to try to make the fights more interesting.

    2. EEEthyn Ewing2:07:55

       Right.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:07:55

       Yeah.

    4. EEEthyn Ewing2:07:55

       That would be the only reason. Like-

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:07:56

       Yeah

    6. EEEthyn Ewing2:07:57

       ... they don't want you to sit and lay there anymore. Get up and start throwing fists again.

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:08:00

       I hate stand-ups. I hate them.

    8. EEEthyn Ewing2:08:02

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:08:02

       I hate them with all my heart. I don't think if, in a five-minute f- round you should ever be stood up.

    10. EEEthyn Ewing2:08:09

        There's a, there's a lot that can go on there. I mean, especially if you're holding position. You're regaining, like, your, your breath a little bit. You're setting up a pass or something. You know, it doesn't always look apparent to the crowd or to the refs, so.

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:08:19

        Even if you can hold him down, like, who cares?

    12. EEEthyn Ewing2:08:23

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:08:23

        You can hold a guy up against a cage, right? Okay. And all you have to do-

    14. EEEthyn Ewing2:08:27

        Well-

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:08:27

        ... is, like, land a few knees and a few punches occasionally, and they'll let you stay in that position.

    16. EEEthyn Ewing2:08:30

        I feel like they're breaking that up even more and more.

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:08:32

        I don't think you should break up anything. I think it should be reserved for fouls. I think if someone commits a foul, then you stand them up, and then you assess whether or not someone gets a point taken away or whether or not that person needs time. But if, if it's a place where you don't wanna be, and the guy's putting you-

    18. EEEthyn Ewing2:08:48

        Uh-huh

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:08:48

        ... in a place where you don't wanna be, he's winning that exchange.

    20. EEEthyn Ewing2:08:51

        Right.

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:08:51

        If a guy can hold you down and you can't get up, or if you don't like it and you can't get up, then he's winning.

    22. EEEthyn Ewing2:08:56

        Right. Yeah. Um-

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:08:57

        We lose as an audience. The audience loses.

    24. SPSpeaker2:08:59

        There's a 10-minute limit for ground time.

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:09:02

        What fight was this? This is WCC?

    26. SPSpeaker2:09:04

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:09:04

        What was it called?

    28. SPSpeaker2:09:05

        Uh-

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:09:06

        World Combat Championships?

    30. SPSpeaker2:09:07

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:36:36