JRE MMA Show #23 with Alexander Gustafsson

Alexander Gustafsson 0:00 ... come down here on hunting sometimes.

Joe Rogan 0:01 Yeah, man. Come down. A lot of wild pigs out here. Alexander Gustafsson, ladies and gentlemen, we're live. Good to see you, buddy. What's happening?

Alexander Gustafsson 0:10 It's good to be here. I'm good. I'm good.

Joe Rogan 0:12 You, uh, you just recovering from shoulder surgery?

Alexander Gustafsson 0:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:14 Did you have shoul- What'd you have done?

Alexander Gustafsson 0:16 Uh, I was wrestling. I was in practice. I got, I got taken down, believe it or not. (laughs) And...

Joe Rogan 0:22 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 0:22 And I got, I got actually slammed. And, and I landed on ... I was, I was like trying to post my arm.

Joe Rogan 0:27 Mm-hmm.

Alexander Gustafsson 0:27 And I was slammed, so just felt something in my shoulder basically and it didn't hurt at first. I was trying to stand up and then I felt it was just a mess in there. And after that, I went to hospital and from there I've been, I've been rehabbing.

Joe Rogan 0:41 So what-

Alexander Gustafsson 0:41 I got a plate inside.

Joe Rogan 0:43 Oh, wow, a plate?

Alexander Gustafsson 0:44 Yeah, I took it out now in like, uh, end of last year. But I had a plate for a couple of months, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:51 What was the extent of the injury?

Alexander Gustafsson 0:53 Uh, nothing was broken. It was more like the collarbone just, just, uh-

Joe Rogan 0:58 Dislocated?

Alexander Gustafsson 0:59 Dislocated, ripped apart from my shoulder.

Joe Rogan 1:01 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01 So they had to put it back in, put the plate on, three screws down. That's the first real injury I had for my whole career.

Joe Rogan 1:07 Oh.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:07 I had bruises, stitches, and all that. But this is the first real, has some problem with my back, but-

Joe Rogan 1:12 Pull this thing right in front of your mou- your face there so it's-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:14 Sorry. If you, like this?

Joe Rogan 1:15 Yeah. There you go.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:16 Like this?

Joe Rogan 1:16 It's under your Viking beard, it's getting muffled up.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:19 Oh. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20 (laughs) So where there tendons torn or ligaments or like-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:22 Yeah, ligaments, ten- all, everything just torn apart.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Wow, so they stitched it all back together again, put a plate in there.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:29 Yeah, yeah. And now I just been, I've been rehabbing. I feel fine, I'm 100% now so I'll be ... I'm, I'm in training. So a couple-

Joe Rogan 1:34 So how many months was it?

Alexander Gustafsson 1:36 Wow, this happened in August and, uh, um, yeah, I took away the plate end of last, last year and I've been rehabbing for a couple of months. So yeah, I have six months totally maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:50 Oh, yes, I was... When you grabbed the bow and you were pulling it back, I'm like, "Maybe I shouldn't have him do that," 'cause-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:55 That's like, you know, that, that kind of movement is like bench pressing-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:58 Yeah, but I'm fine now. I'm good, I'm good, um, it's all good.

Joe Rogan 2:01 You know. That's good.

Alexander Gustafsson 2:02 But that, that bow was powerful though.

Joe Rogan 2:03 It's a powerful bow.

Alexander Gustafsson 2:03 I didn't expect that.

Joe Rogan 2:05 Yeah, it's no joke.

Alexander Gustafsson 2:06 It's good.

Joe Rogan 2:07 That's real shit.

Alexander Gustafsson 2:07 Good training. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:08 Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely good, like, back training if you wanted to work on those muscles. They're very specific.

Alexander Gustafsson 2:14 100%.

Joe Rogan 2:15 Yeah. But, um, so when you do that, do you go through ... Are you doing like platelet-rich plasma and all sorts of different therapies to try to like acce- accelerate the healing?

Alexander Gustafsson 2:27 Well, I, I ha- I done, I done, I done my, I done my physical rehab. I done a lot of like, uh, uh ... I don't know the in- the word in English, but, uh, a lot of acupuncture f- uh-

Joe Rogan 2:43 Acupuncture.

Alexander Gustafsson 2:44 ... yeah, a lot of, a lot of massage, a lot of rehab and lifting small weights.

Joe Rogan 2:48 Mm-hmm.

Alexander Gustafsson 2:49 Really boring stuff. I hate that stuff. I, I, I hate it so much, but you just have to do it. It's just tiny weights. I started with that and then I just been increasing and now that's it.

Joe Rogan 3:01 Well-

Alexander Gustafsson 3:01 Boring as rehabbing.

Joe Rogan 3:02 You, uh, you know, obviously I'm a big fan of yours and I was-

Alexander Gustafsson 3:05 Thanks.

Joe Rogan 3:05 ... very worried when, um, after the Glover Teixeira fight, which I thought was like your masterpiece so far in your career-

Alexander Gustafsson 3:13 Appreciate that. Thank you.

Joe Rogan 3:14 Well, it's just, you've always been a very, very good fighter, but when you see a guy hit this new level, and that's what I felt like you were in the Glover fight, I was like, "Jesus Christ." Like that combination that you finished him off with, was, that was some video game shit.

Alexander Gustafsson 3:26 (laughs) That was crazy. It was-

Joe Rogan 3:28 It was like for yourself too, right?

Alexander Gustafsson 3:29 It was a crazy combination. Yeah, no, he was, he was just standing there. He was just-

Joe Rogan 3:31 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 3:31 ... standing there and I just ... He hate my sho- he hates my uppercuts.

Joe Rogan 3:35 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 3:35 His uppercut worked all night.

Joe Rogan 3:37 It was crazy. Um, so then when I heard that you were injured after, I'm like, "Ah, shit." Like you were just catching your stride. It was just a, a perfect performance.

Alexander Gustafsson 3:45 No, I know. That's what I felt because I felt like, like you said, I, I had, I had everything's go- I had s- such a flow in, in training, in, in life generally. I j- everything felt really good. And I, I'm hungry. I, I was motivated. I'm, I'm, I'm very motivated, uh, but that, that time after that, that win and, and Glover is a tough opponent and everything went so well and with the fight and everything and, and, uh, I felt, I felt really good. And then this happened, so, so it wa- it was a big setback, but, uh, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? So I just kept working on it and, and, uh, I just, I just like, I'm just, I just look forward and, and, uh, I got a goal in my sight. That's it.

Joe Rogan 4:30 Well, the one thing that is good about something like that-

Alexander Gustafsson 4:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:33 ... is it really gives you time to pause and reflect and pay attention to all the other aspects of your game. And you're such a footwork heavy, movement heavy guy as it is.

Alexander Gustafsson 4:42 That's my thing is footwork.

Joe Rogan 4:43 Yeah. Well, that's ser- it's so unusual for a guy as tall and as big as you to be so agile and have so much footwork and movement. I mean, it must be a giant asset for you in fighting.

Alexander Gustafsson 4:54 It is. And, and for, for the Glover fight, I could do that for 10 rounds. I, I, uh, you know, I wasn't tired at all. I was just ... I did my thing and I was out of there. I wasn't in his pocket, I wasn't in his range.

Joe Rogan 5:06 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 5:06 Then I did my thing again and I was out of there. I could do that all night, all night long. And that, that's also a thing, like, I knew I always had it, but after that fight I really felt that this, this is working. This is my thing and this is what I'm gonna use and I'm gonna get better at it. I'm gonna get better in everything, the whole game, but this is my, this is my key thing. This is it. And I know...

Joe Rogan 5:26 Movement and footwork.

Alexander Gustafsson 5:27 If I fought DC like I fought D- uh, like I fought Glover, I'll beat him. I'll beat him all day long, I'm telling you. I'll beat him.

Joe Rogan 5:35 Well, it was a very close fight the first time you guys fought.

Alexander Gustafsson 5:37 Yeah, but I, yeah, I was-

Joe Rogan 5:38 It was an excellent fight.

Alexander Gustafsson 5:38 But I, I still didn't. Uh, I didn't do it enough man. I was, I was in his pocket too much.

Joe Rogan 5:43 One of the things that I really like about you, Alex, is that when you talk about yourself, you're very hard on yourself. You know, like, I like that. Uh, the, one of the things that you said is that you're never satisfied. This is the life-

Alexander Gustafsson 5:56 Never.

Joe Rogan 5:56 ... of a high level athlete. Never satisfied.

Alexander Gustafsson 5:58 Never. Never. Ju- uh, I just, I just want to improve all the time. And I always been that guy, always been that, that person always had to take the hard way.... i- i- in stuff, l- learning, learning s- new stuff, I have to all the, all the time take the new, uh, the hard way, you know, to... (sighs) I always have to take a beating first before I win. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:17 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 6:17 And that, that's, that's how it's been and, and, uh, and that just makes me stronger. And, and I got that fire in me and it just grows.

Joe Rogan 6:24 Yeah. Well, you're still young. I mean, how old are you now?

Alexander Gustafsson 6:26 31, not that young.

Joe Rogan 6:28 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 6:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:28 That's young, though. I mean, when you think-

Alexander Gustafsson 6:29 Thanks.

Joe Rogan 6:29 ... consider how long you've been fighting in the UFC. I mean, how old were you when you had your first fight in the UFC?

Alexander Gustafsson 6:34 21, 22.

Joe Rogan 6:35 That's crazy, man.

Alexander Gustafsson 6:36 It's 10 years now.

Joe Rogan 6:36 That's crazy.

Alexander Gustafsson 6:37 It's 10 years.

Joe Rogan 6:38 Do you think about yourself as 21 fighting in the UFC? Like, "What?"

Alexander Gustafsson 6:42 Yeah, no. It's, it feels like... (sighs) But the thing, it, it's, it's 10 years, 10 years is always 10 years, but it feels like it was yesterday.

Joe Rogan 6:48 I'm sure.

Alexander Gustafsson 6:48 Time runs, (stutters) especially in this business because your life is, it's all about the next fight. It's always about planning for the next fight, the next fight. So, years were just passing me by.

Joe Rogan 6:58 Well, you also have constant growth and improvement, but it gets tested in these big jumps, like every three times a year, two times a year, whatever it is you're scheduled that you're fighting on.

Alexander Gustafsson 7:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:10 You get these big tests and you get to find out how applicable everything that you've worked on is.

Alexander Gustafsson 7:16 Yeah. Yeah. That, that's, that's how it is. And, and, and you, you feel, you feel, after that test, you just feel like, "What's next?"

Joe Rogan 7:26 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 7:27 "What should I do next? What, what, what's the, what's the next improvement? What's the, what's, what's the next opponent? Uh, where's the belt? Where..." stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 7:35 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 7:35 You know?

Joe Rogan 7:36 When you get off of a f- like, you had like one of the most spectacular fights with Jon Jones. I mean, down to the wire, like as, as close as it gets. And when you get out of a fight like that where you almost won the title against the greatest of all time, like, what is, what is that feeling like and where do you go from there?

Alexander Gustafsson 7:56 Uh, uh, uh, (sighs) you know, uh, it was tough. It was really tough because, you know, everybody was saying like, "You're winning this fight, you're winning this fight. You had three rounds against him. Are you winning this fight?" Like, it, it felt like, and like you said, it was on, it was just, it was just right there at the goal line. I, you know, I didn't really pass that goal line at all. Um, I just felt like that, ah, it was tough, it was tough. But, but, but, li- like now, sitting here now talking to you, it's a big, it's a really good experience for me. And, and, you know, I really, it was a good time for me. The fight was, w- it's a highlight in my career, for sure, in my life, for sure.

Joe Rogan 8:37 Well, it was such a close fight. When the, when the scorecards were being tabbed and you, uh, y- you know, you're just sitting there waiting for the decision, did you think you had it?

Alexander Gustafsson 8:46 (sighs) You know, I didn't know.

Joe Rogan 8:48 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 8:48 I didn't know. I didn't know.

Joe Rogan 8:49 So much chaos. Could you even remember what had happened over the last five rounds?

Alexander Gustafsson 8:53 (laughs) I remem- I remember, I remember the f- I remember the fight. Uh, and I got, uh, I remember almost the, the whole fight, but it was just, Jon Jones is such a beast. He's, he... (sighs) You know, I'm telling you, uh, just for me, Jon Jones, winning over Jon Jones is bigger than taking the belt. I'm telling you. That guy is, the guy is, is such a beast. And, and, uh... (sighs) Yeah. What was the question? (laughs) I forgot what it is.

Joe Rogan 9:21 Just whether or not... No, it's okay. I mean, express yourself. That's fine.

Alexander Gustafsson 9:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:24 I mean, I, I agree with you. He is a beast. You know, I'm, I'm very disappointed with all the stuff that's happened to him, obviously. And especially the most recent one, which I really, I really believe based on the evidence is a mistake.

Alexander Gustafsson 9:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:35 I think s- I think s- he got ahold of something tainted because if they, they tested him before that, he was negative. They tested him after that, he was negative. And what he tested for was such a minuscule amount. There's no way it was something-

Alexander Gustafsson 9:47 Oh, you think so?

Joe Rogan 9:47 Yeah, there's no way. Like, according to Novitsky and according to USADA, according to like how they test people, what- whatever he consumed must have been an extremely small amount. It wasn't an amount that would have had any benefit whatsoever in terms of performi- performance-enhancing.

Alexander Gustafsson 10:05 Well, they know they think so.

Joe Rogan 10:06 (sighs)

Alexander Gustafsson 10:06 You know, that, you know, if... Just let the, you know, expert handle that. I don't know what to say. I, I know for a fact that he's been in that same situation a couple of times. This is not the first time. So-

Joe Rogan 10:18 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 10:18 ... you know, it's just-

Joe Rogan 10:20 Well, he definitely is a wild motherfucker.

Alexander Gustafsson 10:22 He is. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:25 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 10:25 He is. He is.

Joe Rogan 10:25 He definitely does some shit he probably shouldn't do, but-

Alexander Gustafsson 10:27 Oh, yeah. 100%, man.

Joe Rogan 10:29 But, uh, I mean, he-

Alexander Gustafsson 10:30 But the thing is, it's so stupid because he's what he is. He's, he's the best guy pound for pound out there. He's done things nobody else has done. He's, he, he is just a beast and, and still shit just comes up all the time.

Joe Rogan 10:46 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 10:46 He doesn't even need that steroids.

Joe Rogan 10:48 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 10:48 He doesn't even need that shit in him.

Joe Rogan 10:50 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 10:50 He's, he's still the best guy out there.

Joe Rogan 10:52 I don't think he took anything. I really don't. But I, uh, but I agree with you on that. And I think you need a guy like that. You need a guy like that out there.

Alexander Gustafsson 11:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:00 Like, to, to bring you to your full potential. Do you agree?

Alexander Gustafsson 11:04 Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. Yeah, no, like I said to you, fighting him and beating him, that's bigger than taking the belt right now. That's how I feel because he's... Look what he did to DC, man.

Joe Rogan 11:14 Yeah, crazy.

Alexander Gustafsson 11:15 And DC is tough. He's really... He finished DC.

Joe Rogan 11:18 Yes.

Alexander Gustafsson 11:18 That's, that's just insane, so.

Joe Rogan 11:19 It is just insane, yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 11:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:21 And he finished him with a kick that DC said he's never gonna hit him with.

Alexander Gustafsson 11:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:24 That's what was crazy.

Alexander Gustafsson 11:25 I know. (laughs) That's, that's insane, yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 11:27 He's like, "You're never gonna hit me with that left high kick? Oh."

Alexander Gustafsson 11:29 No. And still he went there. Bam.

Joe Rogan 11:30 Wow.

Alexander Gustafsson 11:30 Yeah. He just looked for the po- uh, opportunity and takes it.

Joe Rogan 11:33 (smacks lips) Yeah, tendencies are crazy. It's just, some of them just get so ingrained in the way your body moves-

Alexander Gustafsson 11:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:39 ... and the way you operate.

Alexander Gustafsson 11:40 No, he's, he, he's an expert what, what, of course, e- what he's doing and he's, he's studying his opponent very well. Uh, everything is just such planted in details for the fights, and he just, he knows exactly when he should go for that or that or that. And staying creative and, and using his fantasy and...... it's amazing to see.

Joe Rogan 11:59 Yeah, that Jackson-Winkeljohn team is a truly exceptional team. I mean, they, they really do, do phenomenal with him. Now, where you're at now is a very interesting situation because Jon is in exile. No one knows what's gonna happen in terms of how long he's gonna be suspended. DC is now fighting Stipe Miocic for the heavyweight title and who knows what's happening there. I mean, that... Does that bother you? 'Cause it seems like it kinda, like, puts the 205 title in limbo.

Alexander Gustafsson 12:26 It does.

Joe Rogan 12:27 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 12:27 It does. I, I didn't see that coming at all, DC-Stipe fight, at all. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a great fight for, for them and for the fans and for the sport, but, you know, for us standing, standing in line, we just, you know, we just sitting there on our, on our, like, we're just sitting there and waiting for, for an opportunity and it's not gonna come. It's not gonna be there. So, you know, and, and, and, uh, (sighs) you, you know, I, I wo-... That, that's also a thing that's been motivating me a lot because, uh, after the fight with Glover I got injured and, and all that and, and I was really looking forward to come back and, and, and make, make a really strong, uh, performing, you know, uh, very strong next performance. I just really wanted to... I, I had my eyes on that gold and, and, uh, and then they, they... I, I actually counting almost, uh, you know, fighting DC, but then, then it was all gone by him going after Stipe. So, so it's, it's a crazy situation. The, the whole division is, is, is just crazed right now.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Yeah, it really is because that fight is not even gonna take place until July, so here we are in April. May, June, July, we have three months till that fight takes place.

Alexander Gustafsson 13:40 I know.

Joe Rogan 13:40 So that fight and then obviously at least three months, most likely more, before the title could be challenged again. So that's...

Alexander Gustafsson 13:48 We don't even know if it's coming, if it comes back even.

Joe Rogan 13:50 Right, you might not.

Alexander Gustafsson 13:51 Who knows what happens in that fight? And-

Joe Rogan 13:52 Plus, once he gets used to eating again, like, you know, DC-

Alexander Gustafsson 13:55 It's gonna be tough for him.

Joe Rogan 13:56 DC wins?

Alexander Gustafsson 13:57 I, I s- I s- I see it in pictures now that I'm, you know, I'm gonna meet him in a couple of days.

Joe Rogan 14:01 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 14:01 (laughs) He, he looks a little bit, you know, heavy right now.

Joe Rogan 14:04 Well, he was, uh, on TV the other day eating potato chips.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:06 Yeah, I saw that.

Joe Rogan 14:06 Like, man, you're in camp.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:07 Yeah, I saw that. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 14:08 What the fuck you eating?

Alexander Gustafsson 14:09 No, he loved that.

Joe Rogan 14:10 Yeah. Yeah, he loves food.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:11 That's for sure. I mean, and, uh, I... You know, you look back at his performance in Strikeforce as a heavyweight and it was phenomenal.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:18 He did good.

Joe Rogan 14:19 Phenomenal. Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:19 He didn't lose.

Joe Rogan 14:20 No, he didn't lose at heavyweight and, and-

Alexander Gustafsson 14:22 He's good.

Joe Rogan 14:22 ... tossed around gorillas like-

Alexander Gustafsson 14:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:24 ... Josh Barnett.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:26 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:26 Lift him up like nothing.

Joe Rogan 14:27 Crazy, right?

Alexander Gustafsson 14:28 He's... You know, thi- this fight against Stipe is, uh... (sighs) You know, if, if it would be another, I guess, another heavyweight, I'd probably say Stipe was gonna win this fight. But DC is, like you said, he's, he's a really good heavyweight. So, who knows what happens?

Joe Rogan 14:42 Well, his wrestling is just so next level.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:44 It's such a... It's an interesting position 'cause Stipe is a very good wrestler, but of course-

Alexander Gustafsson 14:50 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 14:50 ... DC's world class.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:51 He's world class and he, he doesn't take one step back, man. He just comes at you.

Joe Rogan 14:55 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 14:55 He's be-... He's just in your face, you know, he's-

Joe Rogan 14:58 But it's tough to count out Stipe too, because Stipe is the pound-for-pound consensus best heavyweight ever. I mean, the guy-

Alexander Gustafsson 15:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:04 ... has defended the title more than anybody.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:06 You look at his resume, it's impeccable.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:08 Knocks out, uh, Junior dos Santos, knocks out Overeem, uh, beats Francis Ngannou, who everybody's scared of. I mean, phenomenal.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:15 Yeah, he's a badass. He's a badass.

Joe Rogan 15:18 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:18 So, you know, but DC, it's... He's such a competitive guy, you know?

Joe Rogan 15:22 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:22 He does, he doesn't want... He doesn't take a step back and he just goes for it. Even if... E- even in a tough situation, he just, he just eats it and comes back and do what he do always. And for, for being a fat guy, that guy-

Joe Rogan 15:35 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 15:36 That guy (laughs) that guy works-

Joe Rogan 15:37 He's k-... He's screaming at you right now, "Hey, man! Settle down!"

Alexander Gustafsson 15:39 Well, no, but that guy is, is doing five rounds like nothing.

Joe Rogan 15:43 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:44 So the conditioning is, is on top.

Joe Rogan 15:46 Yeah. He just (sniffs) eats the wrong food.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:49 That's all it is.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:49 That's what he does, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:50 I mean, I mean, maybe some of it's genetic. I just think-

Alexander Gustafsson 15:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:53 ... he's just eating the wrong food. I mean, there's evidence. He seems-

Alexander Gustafsson 15:57 He has a minor issue with his jawline, man.

Joe Rogan 15:57 Potato chips. Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 15:58 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:58 I mean, there's evidence. It's not like I'm just talking out of my ass. I've seen him eat the wrong food.

Alexander Gustafsson 16:02 Yeah, me too.

Joe Rogan 16:03 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 16:04 Me too.

Joe Rogan 16:04 But, yeah, nothing but respect for that guy. He's an awesome human being too.

Alexander Gustafsson 16:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:07 DC is just-

Alexander Gustafsson 16:08 He's a great guy. He's a great guy.

Joe Rogan 16:09 ... a fantastic guy. Have you ever thought about fighting heavyweight?

Alexander Gustafsson 16:13 It cross my mind from time to time, but I, I feel I'm, I'm, I'm not done with... And I'm not, not done in light heavyweight r- uh, yet. I have still things to do.

Joe Rogan 16:22 What do you walk around at?

Alexander Gustafsson 16:24 I'm heavy.

Joe Rogan 16:25 Yeah?

Alexander Gustafsson 16:25 I am heavy.

Joe Rogan 16:25 Like, what about?

Alexander Gustafsson 16:26 I'm calling DC fat, but (laughs) you know?

Joe Rogan 16:28 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 16:28 I probably shouldn't say anything.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Yeah, but you have an excuse.

Alexander Gustafsson 16:30 I've been, I've been in America for, for, for two days. I again directly ten pounds.

Joe Rogan 16:34 Oh, yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 16:35 No, just being here. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:35 All our GMO food fucks you up.

Alexander Gustafsson 16:37 Just being here.

Joe Rogan 16:38 So, like, what, what... When you normally are getting down to 205, what do you walk around at?

Alexander Gustafsson 16:46 Two... You know, maybe I stopped my camps 235.

Joe Rogan 16:50 Really?

Alexander Gustafsson 16:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:50 Wow.

Alexander Gustafsson 16:51 Yeah. I go up to 240 sometimes.

Joe Rogan 16:53 No kidding.

Alexander Gustafsson 16:54 Wow.

Joe Rogan 16:55 Are you healthy at 240 or are you just like-

Alexander Gustafsson 16:57 I move like never before. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 16:59 Really?

Alexander Gustafsson 17:00 Yeah, I do. I got some speed in my, my, my footwork. I just-

Joe Rogan 17:03 Do you feel good at 240?

Alexander Gustafsson 17:05 I feel pretty good being heavy, I do. And I, and I feel strong. I feel strong. I'm spoiling big guys, I'm spoiling heavy guys, and I feel really strong in, in being a heavyweight. But, but, uh, like I told you, man, I'm, I'm not finished in light yet, light heavy.

Joe Rogan 17:19 I understand.

Alexander Gustafsson 17:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:20 I understand, but how much of you gets diminished in that cut to 205?

Alexander Gustafsson 17:24 Not that bad.

Joe Rogan 17:25 No?

Alexander Gustafsson 17:25 It's like, you know, when I st-... Because off-season I do maybe... Off-season I do, (sighs) I do eight to ten sessions a week. Uh, I don't stress, you know. Uh, I, I don't eat shit food. I... Of course I, sometimes I drink a couple of beers or I have a, a pizza or whatever, you know, I'm a-

Joe Rogan 17:45 Occasionally.

Alexander Gustafsson 17:45 ... occasionally I have to live sometimes, you know. Uh, but, but, uh, it's, uh, good... you know, good, good regular meals, uh, doing a little bit of he- lifting some, some, some weights and, and, uh...... and I don't, I don't, y- you know, when I start, when I stop my camps, it's like my body feels like, "Okay, it's time now to, to start working here." And, and, and I start doing my sprints and my, my miles on the treadmill. Um, you know, from one week to another, I maybe lose, like 10 pounds. It's crazy. It's, it's like my body just knows, "Okay, it's time to work." And then I just drop, like, nothing.

Joe Rogan 18:18 Wow, so your body's just accustomed-

Alexander Gustafsson 18:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:20 ... to the drop.

Alexander Gustafsson 18:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:20 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 18:20 And I feel it's because, you know, I've done it, uh, many times, so it's just like, you know, the routines.

Joe Rogan 18:27 Now, I know you do a lot of hunting, and you were showing me some photos before-

Alexander Gustafsson 18:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:30 ... the podcast. Do you incorporate wild game into your diet?

Alexander Gustafsson 18:33 That's all I do.

Joe Rogan 18:34 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 18:35 That's all I do. I, I, I won't say never, but I barely buy anything from the store when it comes to meat or all that. I just hunt, I just hunt everything I eat. I try to support my family with, with, with, with the, with wha- what I'm hunting. You know, we got a... I'm hunting a lot of wild boars. We have wi- a lot of wild boars in Sweden. I'm hunting deers. We got red deer, fallow deers. Uh, we got moose. Uh, man, you can't compare the meat. It's so... It's, it's, as long as it's... It's a, it's a science just to cook it right. But if you cook it right, and, and, and you know what you're doing, it's the best thing ever.

Joe Rogan 19:11 Yeah, I agree. And I've always wondered, like as a professional athlete, what it would be like, like whether or not you see the benefit in eating such protein-rich, nutrient-dense meat as opposed to pasture-raised or farm-

Alexander Gustafsson 19:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:23 ... you know, cattle.

Alexander Gustafsson 19:23 You can't com- yeah, I can't compare it.

Joe Rogan 19:25 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 19:25 You can't compare it. And, and, and, and, and everything around it too, you know? It... They're suffering. They're like... It's, it's not a good, it's not a good business, you know?

Joe Rogan 19:33 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 19:34 I don't like that business. I don't wanna support it at all. So I'd rather do my hunting.

Joe Rogan 19:37 No, I agree. And y- I mean, there's... To me, it's the best way. If you're going to eat meat, it's absolutely the best way. But what I'm thinking is, like, I don't know a lot of pro athletes that only eat wild game and only hunt wild game. But I would think that there would be a great benefit in that.

Alexander Gustafsson 19:52 100%. 100%. You, you can't get better nutrition to your body than eating, eating that meat. It's the best thing there is. You know? I feel... Even, like, just take... Now how do you feel after eating, like, a, like, a four hu- four, four hu- four, uh, f- uh, a 400-gram, uh, steak after eating, like, a 400-gram whatever deer it is you've been hunting? You don't feel-

Joe Rogan 20:18 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 20:18 ... the same. You don't, you don't feel tired. You don't feel like you're getting this food coma and stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 20:22 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 20:22 You feel fresh.

Joe Rogan 20:24 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 20:24 You feel fresh.

Joe Rogan 20:25 It's weird, right? It's a... Wild game has a, almost an invigorating sensation to it-

Alexander Gustafsson 20:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:30 ... when you eat it. Like it-

Alexander Gustafsson 20:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:31 It actually feels-

Alexander Gustafsson 20:32 You feel strong.

Joe Rogan 20:32 ... you feel good.

Alexander Gustafsson 20:32 You feel strong.

Joe Rogan 20:33 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 20:33 You feel good about doing it because-

Joe Rogan 20:34 How long have you been hunting?

Alexander Gustafsson 20:36 Uh, I've been hunting since a kid. I wa- uh, I grew up on, on a farm. And, and, and my, my dad was hunting a lot as... when I was a kid. And then I didn't hunt for a, for a long time, and I get back to 2012 actually. I took my license and, and, uh, m- and I just... You know, after that, I've been hunting. If I don't train, I'm, I'm outdoors. If I don't train, I'm outdoors. And we have seasons in Sweden, so it's not like you're hunting all year round.

Joe Rogan 21:02 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:02 But the, but I make sure I, I, I fill the freezer under those seasons. Um, so yeah, when I'm not training, I'm hunting.

Joe Rogan 21:10 That's awesome, man.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:11 But you don't use bows there, though. It's not e- it's illegal.

Joe Rogan 21:13 It's not legal, right?

Alexander Gustafsson 21:13 No.

Joe Rogan 21:14 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:14 Only guns.

Joe Rogan 21:14 There's a lot of European countries-

Alexander Gustafsson 21:16 Rifles.

Joe Rogan 21:16 I know in Spain, it's legal. Uh-

Alexander Gustafsson 21:18 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 21:18 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:18 Okay.

Joe Rogan 21:18 In Spain, where you said you hunted those red deer.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:21 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:21 You can...

Alexander Gustafsson 21:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:22 I have a friend of mine who lives in Spain. He's a big bow hunter.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:24 Oh, okay. Okay.

Joe Rogan 21:25 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:25 No, it's only rifles in Sweden.

Joe Rogan 21:27 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:27 But that works too, man.

Joe Rogan 21:29 It works.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:29 I mean, it's the most effective way for sure. And obviously-

Alexander Gustafsson 21:32 It is.

Joe Rogan 21:32 ... you can shoot them at a higher distance, and-

Alexander Gustafsson 21:34 It is.

Joe Rogan 21:34 ... a lot of people think it's more humane too.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:36 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:36 If you're not good with a bow, they're right. Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:39 You know?

Alexander Gustafsson 21:40 But when it comes to the feeling of being outdoors, being close to the, to the, to, to the, being close to the animal and stuff like that, I don't even think you can compare it to, to, to actually the bow hunting.

Joe Rogan 21:51 No.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:51 You have... It's a, a, a whole 'nother technique, its own way to, to hunt.

Joe Rogan 21:54 Well, a guy like you, who loves challenges, who thrives off of that, you would, you would thrive off of bow hunting.

Alexander Gustafsson 21:58 No, I haven't done it, but if, if I, if I try, I'll probably love it.

Joe Rogan 22:01 Listen, man, I'll hook you up.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:03 I, I appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 22:03 I'll set it all up.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:03 Yeah, I'll be back. I'll be back. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:05 My friend, Jon Dudley is tall like you too, so he'd be the perfect guy to coach you.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:09 Man, sounds great.

Joe Rogan 22:09 He could, uh, explain it to you and take you out on a hunt.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:12 Yeah, no, I can't wait, man. I love that.

Joe Rogan 22:13 Well-

Alexander Gustafsson 22:13 I love that.

Joe Rogan 22:13 ... especially wild pigs. There's a, a place that he has in Oklahoma that, uh, they, they hunt a lot of wild pigs. I mean, they just have to eradicate them. There's so many of them.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:22 I heard about it.

Joe Rogan 22:23 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:23 It's too-

Joe Rogan 22:24 Crazy.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:24 ... many, it's too many. It's... I heard it's... And how they hunt them too is kinda crazy.

Joe Rogan 22:29 Oh, the ones in Texas, where they do it from helicopters?

Alexander Gustafsson 22:30 Yeah. Yeah, I saw that-

Joe Rogan 22:31 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:31 ... on YouTube channels-

Joe Rogan 22:32 Yeah. (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 22:32 ... and stuff like that. It's gone crazy down there.

Joe Rogan 22:35 They just have to. There's-

Alexander Gustafsson 22:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:36 I mean, Texas is so big-

Alexander Gustafsson 22:37 Wow.

Joe Rogan 22:37 ... and there's so many pigs. There's millions and millions of pigs there, and-

Alexander Gustafsson 22:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:40 ... they're constantly breeding.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:42 Yeah. They'll have, like, three, four litters a year, and each litter, they'll have four, six piglets, and they just keep going and going and going and going, and there's no end.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 22:50 And they don't have very many predators, so a few mountain lions take 'em out occasionally.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:54 But for the most part, they're just running and gunning, and they keep breeding.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:57 Do they get big in here, the pigs?

Joe Rogan 22:59 Yeah, they get big.

Alexander Gustafsson 22:59 They do?

Joe Rogan 23:00 Yeah, they get big.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:00 Wow.

Joe Rogan 23:00 Several hundred pounds. Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:02 That is-

Joe Rogan 23:03 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:03 ... craziness.

Joe Rogan 23:03 It's common to see 300, 400-pound pigs.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:06 Wow. In Swe- in Sweden, there... We have a couple of them, but they don't get that big though. Uh, the thing is how we hunt them in Sweden is when the farmers, when they... you know, they, they have all their acres and all their, you know, their lands, they actually call us in.

Joe Rogan 23:20 Because of the pigs?

Alexander Gustafsson 23:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:22 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:22 To, to help them out. And we just out there all night. The sun never goes down in Sweden in summer times.

Joe Rogan 23:27 Oh, really?

Alexander Gustafsson 23:27 Now, we have like a midnight sun.

Joe Rogan 23:29 Uh-huh.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:29 So it- it's so cozy being out there. It's- it's kinda warm. It's nice. You're going around, you're checking the lands, and it's, it's pretty good, man. You, you will like it.

Joe Rogan 23:39 I'm sure I would.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:40 I've only been to Sweden once for the UFC-

Alexander Gustafsson 23:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:42 ... when I was there, but I loved it.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:43 Stockholm's a beautiful city.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:44 Thank you, man.

Joe Rogan 23:44 Fantastic. Really, really enjoyed it there.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:46 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 23:47 Very nice people too.

Alexander Gustafsson 23:48 Oh, they are. They are. They are. So thanks.

Joe Rogan 23:51 So how did you get aligned with Alliance? How did that, how did that wind up happening, where you started coming to America to train? And how far into your career was that?

Alexander Gustafsson 24:00 ... right after Phil fight.

Joe Rogan 24:01 Really?

Alexander Gustafsson 24:02 Yeah, right after Phil fight. And back then we didn't, (sighs) we didn't have those resources in, in, in Stockholm at all. Uh-

Joe Rogan 24:09 And you say Phil Davis, we're talking about?

Alexander Gustafsson 24:11 Yeah, yeah, Phil Davis.

Joe Rogan 24:12 Phil "Mr. Wonderful."

Alexander Gustafsson 24:12 Yeah, yeah. "Mr. Wonderful."

Joe Rogan 24:13 Yeah, so, who is also, uh, an Alliance fighter.

Alexander Gustafsson 24:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:15 Which is pretty cool, man, that you guys fought and then you went to train with him.

Alexander Gustafsson 24:19 Yeah. (sighs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:19 Uh, what, how, how'd that work out?

Alexander Gustafsson 24:21 It went good. You know, he, he just kicked my ass the first-

Joe Rogan 24:24 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 24:24 ... (laughs) first couple of times (laughs) before I started learning the, the, the whole wrestling part and-

Joe Rogan 24:28 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 24:29 ... how even to defend a takedown. And after that, I just become good at it, uh, and, and, uh, I, I really enjo- enjoying coming, coming down here, meeting the guys and training. It's a whole nother type of life, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:40 Well, it's so cool that he, uh, you know, accepted you, you know, after you were opponent too, and had you come and, and learn with him.

Alexander Gustafsson 24:46 (sighs) Yeah, you know, uh, it... we j- we just talked after the fight right away and, and, uh, you know, I just, I just swallowed my pride and I would just talk to them, (laughs) talk to them after the fight and like... (inhales deeply) Now, he invited me over and, and, uh, and, uh, I keep... we just kept meeting. My coach, we just came over and we had no idea what to expect, and I remember we just, we just landed. Now, uh, we landed at nighttime, so went to the gym to sleep. I woke up the m- the m- the, the day after, and I was hitting someone, hitting the bags down there, like, in, in the, in the mat area, like early now, super early. I'm like, "Who is this?" I went down, it was Phil. He was hitting the bags and I felt so like, "Oh, damn, I have to do this too. I have to..." (laughs) And then we, then we started to like, you know, train together. So, it, it was, it was a really good time when... and he came actually down to, to us to help me out with, with Glover Teixeira too.

Joe Rogan 25:39 So you went to Sweden?

Alexander Gustafsson 25:40 Yeah, I went to Sweden.

Joe Rogan 25:41 Oh, no kidding.

Alexander Gustafsson 25:41 Yeah, for a couple of weeks. So... and he fought Glover too and, and that, and, you know, it's... it means so much to me to, to have these guys training with me, you know, with Phil, Ilir Latifi-

Joe Rogan 25:53 Mm-hmm.

Alexander Gustafsson 25:53 We have Jimi Manuwa and all those guys.

Joe Rogan 25:55 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 25:55 Such a, such a g- great guys and love training with them. And it ma- it makes my training just... I just steps up, you know, steps up even more. We have, we have bunch of guys. We have like Russian coming in. It's... we established a really good place now at Allstars since t- in Sweden, in Europe, around, around Europe, and, and we're getting so much good guys. And my, and my level of fighting just rises through the top now, I'm telling you. If, if I, if I spar with Phil, Jimi or, or Ilir, I just feel like every day is... e- every day is a fight, you know. You, you can't be relaxed. You can't just throw a jab and don't care about the counter. You have to... Such amazing training.

Joe Rogan 26:34 Well, it's so-

Alexander Gustafsson 26:34 I love it.

Joe Rogan 26:34 ... fantastic too over the last decade, the level of talent that's coming out of Europe is just escalated. It's been so different-

Alexander Gustafsson 26:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:41 ... and so big, and the wrestling too, which is a big part of it. So much more wrestling.

Alexander Gustafsson 26:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:46 So much, so much more talent.

Alexander Gustafsson 26:47 Exactly. Now we, now we have, we have, we have guys coming from, from, from Uzbekistan. We have r- r- different Russian countries down there. They're coming in and those guys are beast, I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Psssh.

Alexander Gustafsson 26:58 They are beasts.

Joe Rogan 26:59 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 26:59 And, and they're, they're... they're driving their, their, their double legs to take downs. They... and they eat, they eat shots though. They eat shots. They take it like nothing and they just comes at you, so they make, they make, they make me work a lot. And, and, yeah, it's, it's... that's exactly what I need. Exactly what I need.

Joe Rogan 27:15 Yeah, that's been one of the more interesting things over the last five or six years is the rise of the Russians.

Alexander Gustafsson 27:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:19 There's been so many from the Soviet, former Soviet Union.

Alexander Gustafsson 27:23 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now they're, they're... and they ha- they have such a, they have such a working capa- capacity. They, they, they work a lot. We have a couple of guys down at the gym now and, you know, huh... they're there at the gym when I come to the gym, they're at the gym when I leave the gym. They never leave.

Joe Rogan 27:37 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 27:37 Oh wait, they live in there though, so (laughs) they never leave basically, but, but on the mats.

Joe Rogan 27:41 They live there, so they actually do live there.

Alexander Gustafsson 27:42 Yeah, we have-

Joe Rogan 27:42 They have dorms.

Alexander Gustafsson 27:42 ... we have, we have, we have a facility that we... so people can stay and, and, and, you know, train. So-

Joe Rogan 27:48 Oh, that's excellent.

Alexander Gustafsson 27:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:49 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 27:50 S- so... but they, they just work, man. They work all day long.

Joe Rogan 27:54 That's a great asset to have a facility where people can train and live there. I know American Top Team put something like that in, Winkeljohn and, um, uh, Greg Jackson put something like that in.

Alexander Gustafsson 28:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:06 That, that ha- that's gotta help so much where young guys who don't have much money, but you know, want a place to train-

Alexander Gustafsson 28:12 100%. 100%. It's a really good way to also to, you know, give something back, man. It's... you know, they ha- they had, they, they have their rooms to sleep in. We m- manage so they, they have really good foods in, you know, to, to, to bring lunches and stuff. Uh, so... and we also got it, we also got it from here, because we... at the beginning, when we came to San Diego, we- w- like I told you, it was, it was another type of training, another type of lifestyle. And we saw that, me and my coach, uh, Andreas Michael, so, uh, we just... after doing this years and years and years, uh, we now manage to do it b- at home. And I just love it. You know, I'll be... I'll be, I'll be traveling... I've been traveling all my, all my career to, to, to America to train and around the place. So I... now we establish a good, a good training system that works and we establish it good and I feel great to be home, uh, uh... you know, when you's getting a family and stuff, I'm 31 years old. And it works, man. It works. I, I never been as... that shape all my life than I've been, like, training at home and feeling good.

Joe Rogan 29:19 That's fantastic-

Alexander Gustafsson 29:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:20 ... where you don't have to drain yourself by flying over across the country-

Alexander Gustafsson 29:23 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 29:24 ... and staying somewhere you don't know.

Alexander Gustafsson 29:25 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Yeah. You were a real pioneer in terms of, like, European mixed martial arts. What is it like now seeing all this sort of explode around you? I mean, it's become so popular all over the world now. I mean, MMA from when you started 10 years ago to now, it's barely recognizable.

Alexander Gustafsson 29:43 No, you were gangster back then.

Joe Rogan 29:45 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 29:45 Or, or, or you're a psychopath.

Joe Rogan 29:46 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 29:46 Either, either one or two of those-

Joe Rogan 29:48 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 29:48 ... when you're training like, uh, and... but nowadays, it's amazing. You know, you have... I walk around in Stockholm and, and, and, uh, people are young kids, they know more, they know even more than I know-

Joe Rogan 29:58 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 29:58 ... about, about the techniques, about, about the sport. We have l- all ladies and all gentlemen coming in, want- want an autograph or a picture. It's, uh, it's grown so much. It's, it's, uh, like you say, it's been exploded all over the world.

Joe Rogan 30:13 Now, what I was getting at was that when you first started out, how much of a structure was in place, like, in terms of, like, how much strength and conditioning you should do, how much sparring you should do, how much drilling you should do?

Alexander Gustafsson 30:26 (sighs) You know, I just ... I'll let- I'll let Andreas Michael to handle that to me.

Joe Rogan 30:30 Oh.

Alexander Gustafsson 30:30 He, he's, he's, he's a, he's a, he's a mastermind of, of, of coaching. He, he pu- he puts me in, in situations I, you know, I, I hate 'em.

Joe Rogan 30:40 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 30:41 He's, he's the worst ever. I'm telling you. We've been such a ... So, uh, we always been fighting sometimes, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:46 Mm-hmm.

Alexander Gustafsson 30:46 Being like ... Uh, but he has this old mentality of training. Uh, he doesn't do ... We don't do too much of the scientific thing, like with, you know, you watch your pulse. You, you, you measure. You thi-

Joe Rogan 30:57 Mm-hmm.

Alexander Gustafsson 30:57 We just do the, the hardcore things and ... Of course we do that too, the, the scientific a little bit, but not too much. So we're trying to balance things out. Uh, but just we ... Yeah, he, he plans everything out. He, he's a mastermind of, of coaching and he, we, he knows me in and out and I know him.

Joe Rogan 31:12 That's another very important part in the development of young fighters, is having someone that they can entrust, that has knowledge. Whether it's in Eric Del Fierro or Andreas or, you know, Jackson Winkeljohn, like whoever it is. Like, having someone who really understands the sport who can guide you.

Alexander Gustafsson 31:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:28 And, and that's just such a giant resource for a guy.

Alexander Gustafsson 31:31 Yeah, it is. It is. And, and you know, as this sport explodes and get bigger, you have those fake ones coming in and think they know everything, you know? And, and, and they, they want it be a ... They wanna have a piece of the cake, basically.

Joe Rogan 31:43 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 31:43 But when you have like, these guys like Eric Del Fierro and, and, uh, A- Andreas Michael and they're, they're, they're masterminds, man.

Joe Rogan 31:50 What is-

Alexander Gustafsson 31:50 Magicians.

Joe Rogan 31:51 ... uh, Andreas, what is his background? Like what did-

Alexander Gustafsson 31:52 Boxing.

Joe Rogan 31:53 Oh.

Alexander Gustafsson 31:53 He was a professional boxer back then.

Joe Rogan 31:55 Oh.

Alexander Gustafsson 31:55 He had like, he has like 19 or 20-0 in, in, uh, his boxing record, so ... And then he broke his arm and had to finish by, had to finish his career because his, his arm. But, uh, no he's, uh, he does, he does his background. That's where I got my footwork from bec- ... You know, that's where I got my, my ba- foundation in fighting from. And then, um, then I, I o- also one thing about, about a coach, uh, like for Andreas for example, he ... Or Eric Del Fierro. They, they don't, they don't care about the glory. They don't care about the attention, you know? They, they, they don't care about ... They're the head coaches but they, they, they take in ... If they, they are honest to, to, to me and, and to themself, they know that I don't know these things. I don't know grab- the grabbing things. I don't know the wrestling things. They learn as ... They learn too as it, as it grows and they learn with me. But they take in people that, you know ... So they, we cover the whole thing. We co- we cover the whole, the whole sp- the wh- the whole, all the aspects of the game basically, so ...

Joe Rogan 32:54 Yeah, Eric is one of the most important but yet, the most humble guys.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:00 Yeah, he's super humble.

Joe Rogan 33:00 He's very in the background.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:02 There's a few guys like that that I really respect. John Crouch from The MMA Lab he's very similar to.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:08 They're n- not looking for attention, just laying back.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:11 And there's a lot of guys that get that aren't looking for attention, they just get it 'cause they're so good.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:15 Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Like Faraz Zahabi you just, you could keep going on and on. There's a lot of them. But those guys are so important. I mean, it's so critical. Like, finding a big camp with great fighters and a fantastic coaching staff is w- ... The, uh, the difference between you realizing your full potential and not.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:33 That, that sometimes is the difference.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:35 Yeah. That's, that's just ... Having the right coach is the key basically.

Joe Rogan 33:38 Yes.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:38 That's the key.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Coaches and training partners.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:41 Yeah, 100%. Yeah. It's good.

Joe Rogan 33:43 So now you're ... So you, you give him like full reign in terms of like-

Alexander Gustafsson 33:47 Full reign, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:47 ... everything you do.

Alexander Gustafsson 33:48 And we discuss it all the time. We argue sometimes. We, we hugging sometimes. You know, it's-

Joe Rogan 33:53 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 33:53 ... it's like a relationship, man. (laughs) It's my, it's my, it's my family too, so, so you know, we ... It is, that's all it is. I remember we, we had a, we had a really good ... We had, we were, we were in Vegas actually for camp. I thought I was fighting Thiago Silva and, uh, he was putting me in there in the cage with some big ass wrestlers. I wasn't, and I was li- I wasn't 240, 235 back then. I was like 220, 219 walking around with. These guys was heavy. Big American heavyweights. Good wrestling guys, and they were just taking me down, taking me down.

Joe Rogan 34:25 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 34:25 Like, submitting me and I was like, I sta- I stand up in the cage. I throw all of my things. I'm like, "It's enough! I can't take it anymore!"

Joe Rogan 34:31 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 34:31 "Let me out! Let me out of the cage! Let me out!" So I was hitting the door, I wanted out of the cage and the gym was full of people now.

Joe Rogan 34:37 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 34:37 So everybody just froze looking at me like ... And the cage was like, on a pedestal so everybody could see me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:44 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 34:44 That was crazy. (laughs) So I was hitting the door and I see Andreas. He's out the other side of the door. He started doing this.

Joe Rogan 34:49 "Nope, nope." (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 34:50 "He's staying in there. One more round." I'm telling you-

Joe Rogan 34:53 (gasps)

Alexander Gustafsson 34:53 ... I was so close to ...

Joe Rogan 34:55 Meanwhile, when you took Jon Jones down you had to be thinking, "Goddamn, I'm glad he didn't open up that door." (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 35:02 (laughs) Exactly. No, I, uh-

Joe Rogan 35:04 You know?

Alexander Gustafsson 35:04 I wa- uh, I was surprised from th- when I ended up in that position on top of him. I'm like, "Did this really"-

Joe Rogan 35:08 "You shocked the shit out of me."

Alexander Gustafsson 35:10 (laughs) "Did this really happen?"

Joe Rogan 35:11 "I didn't think you were gonna go for it."

Alexander Gustafsson 35:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:13 "So when you, you went for it and then took him down we were like, 'Oh, shit!' "

Alexander Gustafsson 35:17 No, I was, I was shocked. I was, I was laying on top and I'm like, "Wow, I have, I'm actually on top of the, uh, I'm on top of this guy."

Joe Rogan 35:23 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 35:24 I thought, I didn't even think that was possible. But it wasn't that too hard to take, to take down, you know?

Joe Rogan 35:29 I think you caught him by surprise.

Alexander Gustafsson 35:30 Yeah, yeah I did. I did.

Joe Rogan 35:31 It was, it was pretty awesome.

Alexander Gustafsson 35:32 I think he was surprised too.

Joe Rogan 35:33 Yeah. Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 35:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:34 Well, it was, uh, pretty fucking awesome. Now, what is a typical day in your, uh, in your camp? Like, do you, do you break up conditioning days with skill work days? Do you do conditioning in the morning? Do you do it in the after you're done with your skill work? How do you work that?

Alexander Gustafsson 35:50 Uh, I do, I do, I do from 10 to 12 sessions a week, um, when I'm in camp. I try to ... We have, we have actually the, the group, the ... We had the group, uh, workouts with the whole group, the whole elite group, uh, uh, in the mornings. And then we do k- uh, ev- everything from sparring to, to good kickboxing drills to ... Yeah, whatever. It's ... That's when the group is, is training and that's, that's ... It's all the time. It's the same group at the same time every morning. And then the nighttime is more like, individual. "Okay, what I'm doing t- today?" "Yeah, you maybe do five, five rounds of pads and then you do the sprints." Or, or-... it could be either one, or strength, or, yeah, it could be either one. So that's how we, that's how we, how we do it, basically.

Joe Rogan 36:34 So, do you have a separate jiu-jitsu coach, a separate Muay Thai coach? Like, how do you, how do you work all that stuff out?

Alexander Gustafsson 36:39 Yeah, yeah, the guy that was, with me now-

Joe Rogan 36:41 Mm-hmm.

Alexander Gustafsson 36:41 ... Joakim Karlsson, he's actually the, the, the national coa- uh, the national coach of Thai boxing.

Joe Rogan 36:48 Oh.

Alexander Gustafsson 36:48 He's, uh... And he's coaching me in, in my, in my, in my kicks, in my knees, in my, in my, in my kickboxing. And then I... Al- Alan Nascimento, it's, it's a Brazilian, uh, a, uh, Brazilian... He lives in, been living in Sweden, uh, many years, has a family and everything. So he's having, he has my jiu-jitsu and my grappling, and he, he's such a competitive guy. He still try, he, he still competes. He beats me up in... He spars with me, basically. That guy, he spars with me, and he just, he makes me learn the hard way.

Joe Rogan 37:15 So you've got just an, an amazing staff over there.

Alexander Gustafsson 37:17 Amazing staff. It's amazing staff.

Joe Rogan 37:19 That's fantastic.

Alexander Gustafsson 37:20 Yeah, I love it.

Joe Rogan 37:21 And so when you say you do these 10 to 12 sessions per week, do you have, like, uh, a board up on the wall where you outline the week ahead, or do you do it day by day? How do you do that?

Alexander Gustafsson 37:31 No, I get a text from Andreas. "This is the-"

Joe Rogan 37:33 That's it.

Alexander Gustafsson 37:33 "... this is the week."

Joe Rogan 37:34 "Today, we're doing this."

Alexander Gustafsson 37:35 "This is the week." I just, I'm just waiting from that text, man. I put the silencer-

Joe Rogan 37:38 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 37:38 ... on, I put my phone like that. I don't wanna see it, man.

Joe Rogan 37:41 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 37:41 But I have to, man. So, so, so that's how it works. He give me a text. If, if we do... It could be on the board, too, I have a big, wha- board on the, on the, on the, on the wall. It could be on the wall, too. He puts down the session. If it's something particular, we have maybe sparring coming in, we have to adapt the, the schedule a little bit. It difference, it's, it's, uh, difference on every week, so...

Joe Rogan 38:02 Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine it gets-

Alexander Gustafsson 38:05 Are you still training? Do you have-

Joe Rogan 38:06 Yeah, I still train, yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 38:06 You do, yeah?

Joe Rogan 38:07 I've got some serious injuries that I'm trying to heal up right now, though.

Alexander Gustafsson 38:10 What, what's the injuries?

Joe Rogan 38:11 Two, uh, problems. Uh, one big one is I got tendonitis in my elbow.

Alexander Gustafsson 38:17 Okay.

Joe Rogan 38:17 I've never had tendonitis before, and it-

Alexander Gustafsson 38:19 I don't know what that is, though.

Joe Rogan 38:20 It's a fucking strain in the tendon that just-

Alexander Gustafsson 38:23 Okay.

Joe Rogan 38:23 ... does... If you... Tendons have low blood supply.

Alexander Gustafsson 38:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:26 So the problem with tendonitis is it takes forever to heal. And I didn't-

Alexander Gustafsson 38:30 You overstretch the arm?

Joe Rogan 38:31 It was, uh, from pulling, from cleans, and from chin-ups.

Alexander Gustafsson 38:35 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 38:36 'Cause, 'cause this one on the inside, this, this muscle right here, or this tendon right here-

Alexander Gustafsson 38:40 Gotcha, okay.

Joe Rogan 38:40 ... man, I fucked it up. I just, I kept training with it. I kept just-

Alexander Gustafsson 38:44 You got an inflammation in it?

Joe Rogan 38:45 Yeah, real bad, to the point where it wasn't healing. And I did stem cells and PRP. I finally got ahold of it, but... This thing right here, I keep it with me all the time. This helped me more than anything. It's a thing called the TheraBand, and what you do is you hold it, 'cause it's, um... This is the elbow that's injured, so I hold it out like this. I twist it, and then I slowly untwist it with this side. And that therapy, just doing this-

Alexander Gustafsson 39:09 Cool.

Joe Rogan 39:09 ... I do this, like, five, six times a day, I'll do, like, 10 reps. That's been, like, the best thing. That's helped me more than anything.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:15 Will you be able to train now, or you've been just-

Joe Rogan 39:18 Now-

Alexander Gustafsson 39:19 ... now, you haven't?

Joe Rogan 39:20 ... pretty soon.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:21 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 39:21 Pretty soon. I think I'm good in about two weeks. I'm gonna give myself two more weeks.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:25 You have some badass kicks.

Joe Rogan 39:26 Oh, thank you.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:27 That's what I heard.

Joe Rogan 39:28 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 39:28 I haven't seen.

Joe Rogan 39:29 I'll show you.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:29 I can still kick.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:31 I have no problem with my kicking.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:32 Flexible?

Joe Rogan 39:33 Yeah, I'm very flexible, yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:34 Oh, cool. Cool.

Joe Rogan 39:35 I did TaeKwonDo when I was a little kid.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:37 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 39:37 I started out-

Alexander Gustafsson 39:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:37 ... with that and then, you know, got into Muay Thai later, but yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:41 Cool.

Joe Rogan 39:41 Those little things, kicking.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:41 I'm not flexible at all, I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 39:43 No?

Alexander Gustafsson 39:43 No, after, I have to, I have to stretch for an hour before the workouts.

Joe Rogan 39:46 Really?

Alexander Gustafsson 39:46 Yeah. I think it's, I don't know. I think it's from my genetics or something. I'm just a stiff...

Joe Rogan 39:51 Vikings.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:52 I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 39:53 Just carrying swords and swinging swords all the time.

Alexander Gustafsson 39:55 Yeah, I should be able to, if I kick over your knees.

Joe Rogan 39:56 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 39:56 (laughs) I can only move fast with my feet, that's all.

Joe Rogan 39:59 Yeah, but I guarantee you, you could improve that flexibility if you really, really-

Alexander Gustafsson 40:02 Yeah, no, I'm working on it all-

Joe Rogan 40:03 ... concentrated.

Alexander Gustafsson 40:03 That's the thing I have to, that's the thing I have in, in, you know, uh, through my whole career. I'm just working on my, my, my flexibility and, and when I'm, when I'm, when I'm stepping in that octagon, I'm, I'm flexible as hell, but that's just two times a year though, so one time s- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:16 So once you get to-

Alexander Gustafsson 40:16 ... year, super flexible, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:17 ... full peak, in the full peak of camp-

Alexander Gustafsson 40:19 But it just-

Joe Rogan 40:19 ... then you're flexible.

Alexander Gustafsson 40:20 As soon as I leave the cage, it's, it's gone.

Joe Rogan 40:22 (laughs) It all tightens back up.

Alexander Gustafsson 40:23 It's gone. (laughs) I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 40:23 Are you doing a lot of weight lifting? Is that what it is? Uh, you're doing a lot of squats or deadlifts or something like that?

Alexander Gustafsson 40:28 No, it's just, it's just, it's, it's in my genetics-

Joe Rogan 40:30 Ah.

Alexander Gustafsson 40:30 ... I think. I just, uh, I'm a, I'm a, I'm super stiff. It depends. I'm not stiff everywhere. It's just my hamstrings are stiff.

Joe Rogan 40:36 When did you start martial arts?

Alexander Gustafsson 40:38 Uh, for real? When I was starting MMA, 2000... End of 2006.

Joe Rogan 40:44 Really?

Alexander Gustafsson 40:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:45 Okay, so it was fairly late in life.

Alexander Gustafsson 40:47 It was. I'd been boxing and stuff, but that's just been-

Joe Rogan 40:49 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 40:49 ... at amateur level. I, I don't even count that as a, as a, as a serious doing sport thing. It, it was just-

Joe Rogan 40:56 Fucking around?

Alexander Gustafsson 40:56 Yeah. Just been playing around.

Joe Rogan 40:57 So you were basically, like, 18, 19 when you really got into it?

Alexander Gustafsson 41:00 Around there, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:01 Yeah. So your body already matured. See, one of the things that you see about kicking in particular is when you get young fighters before their body is matured, then their flexibility usually stays.

Alexander Gustafsson 41:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:13 You know?

Alexander Gustafsson 41:14 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Like if you start karate or something like that.

Alexander Gustafsson 41:15 And you look at Phil Davis, for example. That guy is massive, but still he's flexible as... He's great. He's like a cat.

Joe Rogan 41:21 That guy's a fucking stud athlete, too.

Alexander Gustafsson 41:23 Yeah, yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 41:23 He looks like superhero.

Alexander Gustafsson 41:24 I know, I know.

Joe Rogan 41:24 Like you look at it, his waist-to-shoulder ratio?

Alexander Gustafsson 41:27 I know. It's same with Jim, even, though J- Jimmy Manuwa. I don't put up my T-shirt when I'm training with him. I don't want it... I just keep-

Joe Rogan 41:32 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 41:32 Just keep my hoodie on me. (laughs) Just keep my hoodie on me. Same with Phil, I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 41:36 Yeah, those guys are jacked.

Alexander Gustafsson 41:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:38 I know.

Alexander Gustafsson 41:38 Even if they're off season. I... That's the thing, I just getting, like, chubby, all, like, big... big-ass, like, farmer body, like...

Joe Rogan 41:46 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 41:47 And these guys, they're, they're like, they look like athletes all year round. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 41:50 Oh, man, is that frustrating?

Alexander Gustafsson 41:51 Uh, sometimes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:52 (laughs) But is that just genetics?

Alexander Gustafsson 41:54 But it feels good though when I'm winning the rounds sometimes.

Joe Rogan 41:56 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 41:56 It feels good.

Joe Rogan 41:56 When you're winning the rounds as a fat guy.

Alexander Gustafsson 41:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:58 For fat guys all over the world, yeah. Um, so do you, do you, like, do you watch your diet at all outside of, uh, camp?

Alexander Gustafsson 42:06 Uh, I do. I do, actually. I do. I, I try to, I try to stay away from sugar. Sugar, I don't, I don't... I, it's like, uh, when I do sugar, if I do, like, sodas and stuff like that, uh, candy, whatever, I, I gain a lot of weight. But as soon as I quit it, I just-

Joe Rogan 42:22 It's crazy, isn't it?

Alexander Gustafsson 42:22 ... just, yeah, I drop in weight.

Joe Rogan 42:23 Sugar's the devil.

Alexander Gustafsson 42:24 It is. I hate sugar. It's the worst.

Joe Rogan 42:26 (laughs) It's the wor- when you realize what it's actually doing to your body and then you realize it's everywhere and that most people that you run into are just eating sugar all day long-

Alexander Gustafsson 42:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:34 ... it's crazy.

Alexander Gustafsson 42:35 And it actually doesn't taste that good if you don't do it.

Joe Rogan 42:36 Right, that's the weird thing, right?

Alexander Gustafsson 42:38 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:38 Once your gut bacteria becomes-

Alexander Gustafsson 42:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:39 ... acclimated to eating healthy food-

Alexander Gustafsson 42:41 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 42:41 ... you start craving salads and shit.

Alexander Gustafsson 42:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:43 It's weird, right?

Alexander Gustafsson 42:44 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:45 So now when you talk about flexibility, do you ever do yoga?

Alexander Gustafsson 42:49 I don't.

Joe Rogan 42:49 You don't?

Alexander Gustafsson 42:49 No, I don't like that. No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:52 (laughs) Vikings and yoga don't mix. (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 42:55 No. I, I think it's just because I'm so bad at it. I'm, you know... And you need patience. You need-

Joe Rogan 43:00 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 43:01 ... a lot of patience doing it. And I, I wish, I, I wish I liked it. I wish I... Because I would prob- I probably need it more than ever, but it's the... Don't get me wrong. I'm, uh... You know, I stretch, I do my flexible things i- in my training and all that, but yeah, put a whole workout in just to, just to f- stretch your body. I'm... I don't know. I don't, I don't have the patience for it.

Joe Rogan 43:23 It's not just that, though. That's what's interesting about it. It's a strengthening thing too. It just strengthens your body in an unusual way. Um, I've seen a lot more fighters getting involved in it and really f- seeing benefits. One of them was, uh, Nathan Corbett. You know Nathan Corbett, the Muay Thai champion?

Alexander Gustafsson 43:39 Yeah, I heard about him. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:40 He's doing some interview recently talking about how much yoga he does and how much it's helped-

Alexander Gustafsson 43:43 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 43:43 ... his power and helped his movement.

Alexander Gustafsson 43:45 No, I, I believe it does. I believe it does.

Joe Rogan 43:47 But you're still not interested?

Alexander Gustafsson 43:49 I probably have to, uh, think about it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:52 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 43:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:53 But I always think a guy like you who's so driven-

Alexander Gustafsson 43:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:56 ... at trying to succeed, you know, at all costs-

Alexander Gustafsson 43:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:59 ... like, trying to figure out what's the best way to succeed-

Alexander Gustafsson 44:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:02 ... you might wanna investigate that.

Alexander Gustafsson 44:03 I should. I should actually do it. I should do it. I think it will... I think I will... You know, like, people telling me... you know, they're telling me, like, my kicks, I have to work on my kicks more, I have to use my kicks more in the fights, and they're all right.

Joe Rogan 44:15 Mm-hmm. Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 44:15 I need to start doing my kicks more. And the thing I kick, but I kick with a certain, maybe, uh, unsecurity. I don't know. I, I, I, I li- I love... I think it is from, from back in the days when I was getting taken down all the time doing my kicks.

Joe Rogan 44:30 Mm-hmm.

Alexander Gustafsson 44:30 But nowadays, people taking me down, but I'm... you know, they can't hold me down.

Joe Rogan 44:35 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 44:35 Nobody... If they take me down, nobody can hold me down. So that's just something I need to, like, start doing even more, not just kicking to the, to the legs or... you know, more powerful kicks to the body. My knees are good. I work on my knees all the time and, and I'm, I'm putting in more in my fights and I love my knees. I'm, I'm getting really high with my knees. ............................

Joe Rogan 44:55 That's one of the beautiful things about MMA and martial arts in general, is that there's always room for improvement.

Alexander Gustafsson 45:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:01 There's always things to work on. No one is the best-

Alexander Gustafsson 45:03 And even if you are 31 years old-

Joe Rogan 45:05 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 45:06 ... you're doing this for 10 years, you still have so much to learn.

Joe Rogan 45:08 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 45:09 That's the, that's the good thing with the sport.

Joe Rogan 45:11 No, it's, it's such a comprehensive sport. I mean, I really don't think people appreciate how much thought is involved in the preparation.

Alexander Gustafsson 45:18 Yeah. No, it's, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. So...

Joe Rogan 45:23 How long do you think you'll be doing it?

Alexander Gustafsson 45:26 (sighs) .

Joe Rogan 45:26 You say 31 like you're old, but you're not.

Alexander Gustafsson 45:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:30 But it seems like you've been doing it a long time, right?

Alexander Gustafsson 45:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:32 How many years you think you have left?

Alexander Gustafsson 45:37 I, I feel, I feel really hungry and motivated. I don't think the age is going to be... I don't, I don't think, uh, my age in terms of, you know, have pain in your body or injuries or anything like that is going to stop me. It's more like as long as I'm having fun, as long as I'm enjoying what I'm doing, I'll do it. I'll do it. You have, you have guys that are, like, doing it late in 40s. They have-

Joe Rogan 46:02 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 46:02 That's, that's also a good thing with the sport. It's such a... Guys... It's such an old age of, of peaking if you compare it to other sports. So I have, I have a lot more to give. I can't give you a number, but I have a lot more to, to give. I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 46:17 You've had moments in your career, though, that you were kind of down, right? Like, moments-

Alexander Gustafsson 46:21 Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:21 ... in your career where you're thinking, "How much longer am I gonna do this?"

Alexander Gustafsson 46:24 Exactly. No, after Anthony, Anthony Johnson lost, that, that was a tough one. Uh, you know, uh, but, but I always told myself, like, you know, either, either I, either I just put my... either I just get a fuck out of there or just learn from it and keep go- doing it. And I just love my life as it is, you know. I have the... I have my, my, my... I'm so flexible in my schedule, my, my, in my time with the family, and I gain everything from the sport. So, so I, I have to do it more, and I'm going to do it more. That's, that's what I... if I, if I probably gonna like... if, if I would like, for example, say, uh, you know, "Fuck it. I don't..." after I lost against Anthony, for example, I'll regret myself, like, a, a lot in, like, in the late 40s maybe. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 47:15 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 47:15 So...

Joe Rogan 47:16 Well, because you, you had your finest performance after that.

Alexander Gustafsson 47:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:19 I mean, the Glover Teixeira fight.

Alexander Gustafsson 47:21 Yeah. And I just feel like that, that's the thing, you know. I just feel like I'm just keep going like this-

Joe Rogan 47:26 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 47:26 ... for every fight. And then I have, I had a couple of setbacks, but I'm still seeing those marginals. I see the numbers going up. I see, I see myself doing better. So I, I believe in myself 100% and I believe I have what it takes to take that belt. That... I believe I have what it takes. And I believe I can beat Jon Jones. I believe 100% I have what it takes to beat Jon Jones and I have what it k- it takes to beat DC. So I'm just looking for that opportunity. I want, I want to, you know, step in there. People say I'm not active enough, I don't say enough, but that's never been my thing. I've never been like a Conor McGregor. And if I should start doing what he's doing, people are going to tell me, like, "Shut the fuck up."

Joe Rogan 48:05 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 48:05 "You know, I see right through you. You're not that guy."

Joe Rogan 48:07 Right, right, yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 48:08 You know, I was just, like, silly myself.

Joe Rogan 48:10 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 48:10 So, so I just, you know, doing what I do, I'm always going to do what I do and, and, uh, and I show what I have when I, when I fight. And I've been a little bit inactive because of, because of my injury now and because of all that, but, you know, whatever people say, I'm, I'm down and I'm just waiting for the next opportunity, basically. I can't wait.

Joe Rogan 48:29 The Rumble Johnson fight was, uh, a tough one for you to swallow too, because it was in Stockholm, it was this enormous event, everybody was there to see you.

Alexander Gustafsson 48:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:38 And, um, in that fight, we didn't pick it up while the fight was going on, but you guys collided heads.

Alexander Gustafsson 48:44 Yeah. Yeah, it was a headbutt.

Joe Rogan 48:45 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 48:46 It was... I'm not, I'm not taking anything away from Anthony Johnson. That, that guy is a beast and he hits har- he's one of the hardest hitter in the, in the-

Joe Rogan 48:53 No doubt.

Alexander Gustafsson 48:53 ... fucking sport, so...

Joe Rogan 48:54 No doubt. I mean, no one's taking anything away from him. He's truly exceptional.

Alexander Gustafsson 48:57 But the thing is, I was throwing my, my, my kick there and...... he just came in there and his forehead hit my, my chin.

Joe Rogan 49:06 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 49:07 And from ... And I just, I just blacked out. I, I didn't ... I w- went down, I went up again, I was in the ma- I was in the match again.

Joe Rogan 49:14 Mm-hmm.

Alexander Gustafsson 49:14 But he, he just, you know, when he gets a taste of blood he just goes for it and, and I should just kept my guard up. I'm, I'm very like this.

Joe Rogan 49:21 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 49:21 You know, I'm very lengthy and he just caught me as I'm doing all that.

Joe Rogan 49:25 But isn't that one of those situations where until you've been there and you, you been that hurt in a big fight like that-

Alexander Gustafsson 49:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:32 ... it's like the experience is ... It's, it's an alien experience.

Alexander Gustafsson 49:36 It is, it is. It's, it's you don't recognize any of it. Y- y- it's like y- y- you can't ... Nothing controls ... Your mind trying to control your legs, your arms, like this and that, but it was just ... I was just disoriented, man.

Joe Rogan 49:51 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 49:51 And it was 4:00 in the morning in a, in, in one of the big stadium in Sweden, 4:00 in the morning, we filled it up. We filled it up and, and, and-

Joe Rogan 49:58 It was a huge place.

Alexander Gustafsson 49:59 And it wa- it was huge, man. And, and, and, uh, and, uh, like I said, 4:00 in the morning, uh, you know, when the people told me like, "Oh, we're gonna do this." I'm like, "No. How? It's not gonna h- it's not gonna happen. How should we manage to fill this place up?"

Joe Rogan 50:11 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:11 But still people went there to see it and it was just amazing feelings happening out there.

Joe Rogan 50:15 Well, for people that don't understand why, they did it to coordinate it with American Pay-Per-View.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:19 Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 50:21 That's what they did. Yeah, yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:21 Uh, so, yeah, that was it. (laughs) That was it.

Joe Rogan 50:25 Yeah, it was rough, man. It was a, a rough loss. And now Rumble just decided he doesn't wanna fight anymore, which is kinda crazy.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:32 Every now and then he thinks about it. He says he wants to come back as a heavyweight.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:34 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 50:35 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:35 Yeah, yeah. I don't think he's even gonna make it to light heavy anymore. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:38 No. He's so-

Alexander Gustafsson 50:39 Not from those pictures I've seen.

Joe Rogan 50:40 It's so crazy to think that that guy fought at 170 at one point in his career.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:44 I can't even, I can't even ... Yeah, I can't even see that now.

Joe Rogan 50:47 Yeah. I don't understand-

Alexander Gustafsson 50:48 I can't even see it.

Joe Rogan 50:48 ... how he even did it. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:50 He's such a massive guy. His, his neck is like the size of his head.

Joe Rogan 50:53 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 50:53 He has not a bi- small head. He has like this big round head.

Joe Rogan 50:56 Yeah. (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 50:56 And then the neck is the size of his head. So he's ... No, he's a big guy. A really big guy.

Joe Rogan 51:00 I ran into him once while he was fighting 170. Uh, he was in the lobby of a hotel. I came downstairs and I go, "Anthony, how much do you weigh?" (laughs) And he starts laughing. He's like, "230." I was like, "230? You weighed 230?"

Alexander Gustafsson 51:14 No, that, that, that-

Joe Rogan 51:14 "You gotta get down to 170?"

Alexander Gustafsson 51:16 That makes my weight cut easy, man. I'm telling you. That ma- makes my weight cut my, uh ... It makes my weight cut easy, I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 51:22 No, his weight cut was horrific.

Alexander Gustafsson 51:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:24 He used to ... His whole ... His cheeks used to suck. He has prominent cheekbones, right?

Alexander Gustafsson 51:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:28 So like when his weight cut was fully dehydrated when his body was like really, really thin.

Alexander Gustafsson 51:34 Sticking out.

Joe Rogan 51:34 It was like horrible. It was like looking at a skeleton.

Alexander Gustafsson 51:37 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 51:37 I was like, "Man, that guy."

Alexander Gustafsson 51:39 Wow, that's not good for you at all.

Joe Rogan 51:39 He, uh, missed weight a bunch of times too, you know.

Alexander Gustafsson 51:42 Yeah. No, going up to light heavyweights, it's probably the best thing he's ever done in his career.

Joe Rogan 51:45 I agree. Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 51:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:46 Yeah, I was kinda stunned when he decided to retire, but what he said was interesting. He said, uh, "I'm not a fighter." He goes, "I'm an athlete." He goes, "I'm just really good at fighting."

Alexander Gustafsson 51:55 I don't know if that's-

Joe Rogan 51:56 He goes, "I'm, like, fighting."

Alexander Gustafsson 51:56 I don't know if that's correct though. I always see him more like a, like a, like a fighter. You know, he's a great athlete, but, but I see him more like a, like a hardcore fighter. I, I don't ... You know, he-

Joe Rogan 52:07 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:07 Of course he's not ... All ... We all are athletes doing this.

Joe Rogan 52:09 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:10 But, but, but he's more like the fighter. You know, Phil Davis is a ... Is an athlete. He's an athlete. But this guy, he's just like ... He's a fighter, man. I'm telling you.

Joe Rogan 52:18 You should gotta tell him, man.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:20 I mean if you watch his fight with Glover Teixeira or you watch-

Alexander Gustafsson 52:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:23 ... his fight with Little Nog.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:24 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:24 You go, "Yeah, that motherfucker's a destroyer."

Alexander Gustafsson 52:26 No. He does. He does.

Joe Rogan 52:26 He's a destroyer.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:27 You don't wanna ... You don't wanna be in front of him.

Joe Rogan 52:29 (clears throat) And that shows you how fucking tough DC is.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:31 Yeah. No, that guy-

Joe Rogan 52:32 DC beat that guy twice.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:33 I, I, I thought everything I had in him. Everything I had. I, I kneed him in the face. I kicked him in his body. Sometimes I hit him and I saw his eyes goes like this. And he just, he just put ... He just kept going.

Joe Rogan 52:44 DC's an animal.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:45 Yeah. A four-wheel drive, just kept on, on going.

Joe Rogan 52:48 (laughs) He's a fucking animal, man.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:49 Yeah. Whatever I th- str- And he just same pace, same pace.

Joe Rogan 52:54 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 52:54 You know, if I fight him again, I wo- I will, I will not stand in his pocket. I wanna stand in front of him.

Joe Rogan 52:58 So you think that was the critical error?

Alexander Gustafsson 53:00 100%.

Joe Rogan 53:00 Like, being right in front of him?

Alexander Gustafsson 53:01 Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:01 Especially when you have such an it- reach advantage.

Alexander Gustafsson 53:04 I was respe- Yeah. I respect his wrestling too much. Um, so, yeah. Like if I fought him again, I would do it a way different way.

Joe Rogan 53:13 Yeah, I'm sure he'd do something different too though, right?

Alexander Gustafsson 53:14 He probably do.

Joe Rogan 53:15 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 53:15 He probably do, but he's still doing one thing ca- like al- all the time. He just keeps moving forward. That's what he does.

Joe Rogan 53:20 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 53:21 That's what-

Joe Rogan 53:21 What you gotta do is you gotta catch him when he's coming down from heavyweight.

Alexander Gustafsson 53:24 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:24 When he ha- You see, you remember the towel the way he was pushing down on the towel-

Alexander Gustafsson 53:28 I also did that.

Joe Rogan 53:29 ... when he made weight.

Alexander Gustafsson 53:29 I also did that. I do- I saw that.

Joe Rogan 53:32 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 53:32 (laughs) No, I wa- I want him to come down. I hope he's coming down.

Joe Rogan 53:35 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 53:35 He, he can't, he can't just like, you know, take that fight now. E- e- you know, even if he wins, he has to come, come down and, and, and, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 53:44 Defend?

Alexander Gustafsson 53:44 Defend and fight.

Joe Rogan 53:45 He might ... Listen, if he beats Stipe he might fight Francis again. Who knows? He might fight, uh, Volkov who, you know, he could ... Who could fight-

Alexander Gustafsson 53:51 No, he has to fight me. He doesn't wanna fight me, but he has to fight me.

Joe Rogan 53:54 He has to in your mind.

Alexander Gustafsson 53:55 He has to fight me.

Joe Rogan 53:56 That's what you need.

Alexander Gustafsson 53:56 Yeah. That's what I need.

Joe Rogan 53:58 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 53:58 That's mine.

Joe Rogan 53:58 It's him or Jon. So if Jon's back-

Alexander Gustafsson 54:00 It is.

Joe Rogan 54:01 ... first, you would like to be the first guy to fight Jon coming back.

Alexander Gustafsson 54:04 I will, coming back right away.

Joe Rogan 54:06 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 54:07 I mean, I mean, I'm train- I'm in camp and ... I'm not in camp, sorry. I'm training.

Joe Rogan 54:10 Right.

Alexander Gustafsson 54:11 I'm feeling great. My shoulder is good and I'm just waiting for an opportunity.

Joe Rogan 54:16 The light heavyweight is pretty wide open right now.

Alexander Gustafsson 54:18 It is.

Joe Rogan 54:19 Particularly with this decision for DC to fight against Stipe.

Alexander Gustafsson 54:22 It is.

Joe Rogan 54:22 So we- you have, you know ... It's interesting, like you have, um, Ozdemir who just lost, right? You got your friend Jimmy Manuwa. You have a, a few guys who are at the, the top of the heap, you know. Uh, but you're the standout right now.

Alexander Gustafsson 54:37 I am.

Joe Rogan 54:37 With, with Jon being-

Alexander Gustafsson 54:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:39 ... in limbo.

Alexander Gustafsson 54:40 Yeah. He's gone. No- nobody knows what's happening with him. You know, it's-

Joe Rogan 54:44 Who else stands out to you in that division? Ilir?

Alexander Gustafsson 54:48 Yeah, yeah. Ilir. You know, I, you know, I wouldn't fight my teammates at all.

Joe Rogan 54:51 Right, of course.

Alexander Gustafsson 54:51 I don't fight my teammates. Ilir, I've been training with him since I was ... I started my career. So J- Jimmy, Jimmy and, and Ilir is ... You know, we've been saying to each other that whatever happens, we're not fighting each other. You know. Um, but, uh-... yeah, for- for the- the only, the only, the only fight that makes sense for me right now it's, uh, it's fighting, if- if fighting the top guys. And I'm ranked number one right now, so I can't look back, I can't look down, I have to look up.

Joe Rogan 55:16 Right, of course.

Alexander Gustafsson 55:16 What- what's, what's the next up here? And, uh, and we take it from there, we take it from there. And- and, uh, like you said, with Jon Jones, he's in limbo. I hope he comes back. If he doesn't come back, maybe I'll fight him in boxing. I'll fight him in boxing too.

Joe Rogan 55:33 Why, does he wanna box?

Alexander Gustafsson 55:34 He's been boxing on his Instagram. That's all he do is box right now.

Joe Rogan 55:38 Really?

Alexander Gustafsson 55:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:39 I haven't been paying attention to his Instagram.

Alexander Gustafsson 55:41 No, he's boxing all the time.

Joe Rogan 55:42 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 55:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:44 I don't see, see him coming back as a boxer, though.

Alexander Gustafsson 55:47 No, no, we- we-

Joe Rogan 55:47 Or maybe he just sees that Conor McGregor money.

Alexander Gustafsson 55:49 We, we could, we, we could... Yeah, that's, that's another thing. But we can take it like, uh, you know, maybe a side show here. We can box.

Joe Rogan 55:55 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 55:56 Or whatever, you know?

Joe Rogan 55:56 So you just wanna get in there with him somehow or another.

Alexander Gustafsson 55:58 Yeah, somehow or another, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:59 Somehow or some-

Alexander Gustafsson 55:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:59 ... somehow or another.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:00 Your competitive drive wants to get in there with him.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:02 That's my, that's my... Like I told you, it's- it's- it's bigger than winning the belt.

Joe Rogan 56:06 That's your Mount Everest.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:07 Yeah, it is.

Joe Rogan 56:07 To Jon Jones.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:08 It is.

Joe Rogan 56:09 Jon's out there going, "Yeah." (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 56:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:11 I'm bigger than the-

Alexander Gustafsson 56:11 He knows that, he knows that.

Joe Rogan 56:14 (laughs) There he is.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:14 Yeah, there he is.

Joe Rogan 56:15 He still got that Corvette? Yo, sell that thing, get a minivan.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:19 Drive slow. It looks good, man. Looks real good.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:21 Yeah, it do.

Joe Rogan 56:23 It's gotta be so frustrating for him to be in the situation that he's in.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:26 You know?

Alexander Gustafsson 56:26 I can't even imagine.

Joe Rogan 56:27 Yeah, I can't-

Alexander Gustafsson 56:28 What goes through-

Joe Rogan 56:28 ... imagine either. It's- it's fucked up. It's a crazy situation to be in.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:32 You know?

Alexander Gustafsson 56:32 But did you see the article, Colby Covington?

Joe Rogan 56:36 No, what did he say?

Alexander Gustafsson 56:36 What he, what he said about Jon Jones?

Joe Rogan 56:38 I don't even wanna hear it.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:39 No? Okay, we shouldn't even-

Joe Rogan 56:40 I mean, you could-

Alexander Gustafsson 56:41 ... go there.

Joe Rogan 56:41 ... you could bring it up if you want to, but Colby-

Alexander Gustafsson 56:42 No, he wa- he wa- he was talking, it w- it was a, it was a, like a- a text like this, just about Jon Jones, how piece of shit he is.

Joe Rogan 56:50 (inhales deeply) Whew.

Alexander Gustafsson 56:52 Now, I was even surprised when I saw it myself. You know, I was like, "Is this right or wrong? I don't know." It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 56:58 Jon Jones is gonna be in front of you one day, gotta be careful. Watch your fucking words.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:03 You're gonna get slapped in the face-

Alexander Gustafsson 57:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:05 ... by a guy who can kill you with his hands. That's a, that's a bad move. I- I- I get what Colby's doing. I mean, he's making a lot of noise and trying to do business, you know? And if you fight him, you're gonna make a lot of money because a lot of people are gonna come to see him get his ass kicked. You know, you know, he is gonna fight-

Alexander Gustafsson 57:18 Yeah, he's probably not, he's not probably on the, on the, on the popular list. He's probably on the I want you to see, I wanna see you get knocked out list.

Joe Rogan 57:26 He's in a dangerous situation-

Alexander Gustafsson 57:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:28 ... right now. He's gonna fight dos Anjos.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:30 Rafael dos Anjos is Brazilian.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:31 He's-

Joe Rogan 57:32 He talked crazy shit about Brazil.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:33 He is.

Joe Rogan 57:33 And they were gonna fight in Brazil.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:35 He is, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:35 But they moved the fight-

Alexander Gustafsson 57:36 He is.

Joe Rogan 57:36 ... to Chicago.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:37 Which, for Colby, thank the baby Jesus.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:40 Exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:41 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 57:41 I would say the same thing.

Joe Rogan 57:42 You don't wanna be fighting Rafael dos Anjos, Brazilian-

Alexander Gustafsson 57:45 You don't even wanna c- You don't even wanna be close to Brazilian right now-

Joe Rogan 57:48 No.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:48 ... if you're Colby Covington.

Joe Rogan 57:49 No.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:49 You don't even wanna be close to him.

Joe Rogan 57:50 No, I would not go if I was him.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:52 No.

Joe Rogan 57:52 And he'd probably go anyway, man. He doesn't give a fuck.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:54 No.

Joe Rogan 57:54 He'll go if the money's right.

Alexander Gustafsson 57:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:55 I'm sure he would. But dos Anjos right now, at welterweight, I think is a murderer. He's a fucking killer at welterweight.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:02 Because for him, that cut down to 55 was just too big, too big.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:06 And when you see-

Alexander Gustafsson 58:07 And yeah, he's a big guy.

Joe Rogan 58:08 He's big. I mean, it's just too much of a cut, too draining on his body. And then you see the way he beat Robbie Lawler in his last fight.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:13 You're like, "Holy shit."

Alexander Gustafsson 58:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:14 He goes through Neil Magny, Robbie Lawler, and you look-

Alexander Gustafsson 58:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:17 ... at how good he looks at 170.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:19 You're like, "Holy shit."

Alexander Gustafsson 58:19 It's a tough fight. It's a good fight. It's a good fight.

Joe Rogan 58:21 It's a very good fight.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:21 Yeah, it's a really good fight.

Joe Rogan 58:23 Particularly standup, he has a, a big advantage, I think, over Colby.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:27 Standup.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:27 What does he do, Colby? What, is he a wrestler?

Joe Rogan 58:29 He's a wrestler. He's a wrestler.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:30 He's a wrestler?

Joe Rogan 58:30 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:30 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:31 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:31 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:31 His standup is good. I mean, he beat Demian Maia, he beat him up. But I, I feel like Maia is, uh, you know... I mean, Maia was coming off of that very, very hard fight against Tyron Woodley, five hard rounds, got beat up. And then he's gonna go five or... I think he went three rounds with Colby, but I just don't think he's the same guy anymore. I think he's 41, I think, Maia, 40, 41.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:51 No, he's been in the game for a very long time.

Joe Rogan 58:53 Longer time.

Alexander Gustafsson 58:53 He's been in the game for a very long time.

Joe Rogan 58:55 Yeah, and I think, uh, those long, hard five round wars-

Alexander Gustafsson 58:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:58 ... like he did with Woodley-

Alexander Gustafsson 58:59 It takes a toll on you, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:00 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 59:00 It takes a toll on you.

Joe Rogan 59:01 Not taking anything away from Colby, but I think, also think Colby's style is probably tailor-made for a guy like Maia.

Alexander Gustafsson 59:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:08 You know, wrestling, very strong.

Alexander Gustafsson 59:10 That's- that's what you usually see.

Joe Rogan 59:11 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 59:11 Like, he wrestles against Brazilian jiu-jitsu guys.

Joe Rogan 59:15 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 59:15 You know?

Joe Rogan 59:15 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 59:16 So...

Joe Rogan 59:16 Now, you're a fucking decent guy. You don't get in any bullshit, you're not involved in any brawls, you don't get involved in any stupidity. You're an excellent representative of a professional athlete.

Alexander Gustafsson 59:27 Thanks.

Joe Rogan 59:28 What do you think about all this Conor McGregor bullshit? Like, when you see someone throwing a dolly at a bus-

Alexander Gustafsson 59:33 No, no.

Joe Rogan 59:33 ... and shattering a window.

Alexander Gustafsson 59:34 No, that's... No, no, I- I don't even have words for it, man. I have no words for it. (sighs)

Joe Rogan 59:40 What did you think of when you heard the new... I've- I've- I heard the news when I landed. I was in the plane when it was all happening, flying to New York. And when I landed, my phone was like ... All these text messages coming in going, "What the fuck is wrong with Conor? What the fu-" I'm like, "What happened?" You know?

Alexander Gustafsson 59:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:56 And then I checked the news and I was like, "Oh, Christ." And then I hear that two fights were pulled from the card, then three fights were pulled from the card.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:03 Yeah. No, what Conor McGregor, he'll- he's just, he's just losing it right now. I th- it feels like he's- he's lost it. I- I feel like... (sighs) you- you know, I- I- I've never really been... You know, I respect all these things that he does. He's- he- he's a, he's a, he's a great businessman. He do what it takes to make money. He knows what it takes to get money, and he dos- he did really good. He's- he's a, he's a mastermind when it comes to trash talking me.

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 Oh.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:29 He take, he take, he takes-

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 Oh, so he's a wizard?

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:31 He takes it to another level. But like, this thing he did now, it's just, it's, uh, it's just crazy. You don't do that. You don't do that at all. I don't, I don't know what it is. Wh- wh- why he's doing it?

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Yeah, I don't know either. I would speculate-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:45 Is- is he drunk as fuck or is he, is he just, uh... Is he, like say it's booze?

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 I would say it's booze. I wouldn't think that's a booze move.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 That seems more like a coke move.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:52 Yeah, could be. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:54 That's-

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Or it just could be part of his act.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 You know?

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:56 But that's the thing, like, do you really take it that far?

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:00:59 Do you really take it that far to- to just make some noise?

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 (inhales deeply) I don't know. What if... My thing is like, what if that- that dolly hit the car where Rose was sitting and cut Rose's face up?

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:10 No, that was just be-

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 ... fuck, man.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:12 Oh, yeah, that would be crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 It's like Michael Chiesa, I'm sad that he got cut-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 ... but M- Chiesa's a tough bastard-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 ... he'll be fine.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:17 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 He's probably pissed off-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 ... and he's gonna sue Conor and he'll probably make a shitload of money suing him.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 But what if it hit Rose?

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:23 No, that would be bad.

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Ugh.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:24 That would be really bad. No.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 I would feel terrible. I mean, the fucking world would hate him.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:28 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 Like, what if Rose was blind in one eye because of that?

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:31 Oh, no, shit. (laughs) That would be a nightmare.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 For real.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:32 What the fuck? That would be a nightmare.

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 Look, look, uh, Ray Borg got cuts in his eyes.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:35 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 I mean, it's, it's entirely possible.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:37 Yeah, he got glasses, glas- glass cuts in his eyes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he got glass shards, he got a, a, a s- a scratched cornea.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:43 Are they all suing Conor now or-

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 (sighs) Oh, God, man.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:01:46 ... they should be.

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 I don't know, find out how many lawsuits I know Chiesa filed. Chiesa definitely filed a lawsuit or filed a complaint which will lead to a lawsuit, I, I imagine. Look, I'd imagine if I was Conor, I would settle the fucking... every single thing outside of court because if he loses, if he loses and he gets a felony, he's fucked. He probably won't even be able to come into the country.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:07 No. Exactly. No.

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Here's my thing, imagine... switch it around. Imagine if Ray Borg threw that dolly at the bus and Conor was inside.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:16 No, he would just... yeah, he would've smoked.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 He'd be gone.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:18 Yeah, he'd be gone.

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 His career would be over.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:19 He, he would be gone, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 That's one of the more fucked up things about this.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:23 Yeah, yeah. He would be gone. He's-

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 Is that you know Conor's getting special treatment.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:26 Exactly. Of course. Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 He is.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:28 Yeah. Of course. Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 That's not good for anybody.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:30 No, it, it's not, it's not. And like I, like I told you, he's just, he's just losing his mind right now. It's, uh, you, you do it to a certain, a certain level, and then you just like, you just chill. You don't take it further than that, than the, the, what it just did.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:45 So, I don't, I don't have any words for it, man. I, I just feel like it's terrible. It's terrible for, for everybody in the sport, man.

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 No, it's terrible. It's terrible for Conor even-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:55 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:55 ... because you, you don't wanna be in a position like that.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:02:56 Yeah, he's making money. I don't know what he made f- what he made for th- for that Mayweather fight, but I'm telling you, if he keep doing what he's doing, that, that, that money is not gonna be enough-

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 No.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:04 ... to, to pay all the shit (laughs) he has to pay.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 No. No.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:07 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 He'll burn right through that money.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 I mean, he's probably burning through that money anyway. Every time you see him, he's got a new Bentley.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 And probably lives in a mansion now.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:14 Oh, yeah. He does. 100%.

Joe Rogan 1:03:15 He's fucking-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:16 He has his private jet.

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:17 I don't know how many bounc- I, I don't know how many, how many, uh, what you call it, bodyguards he had when he, when he, when he hit that guy in Ire- in Ireland.

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:25 The, the, the gangster guy he hit in Ireland.

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:28 He had a bunch of li- like bodyguards I heard around. What do they cost every day?

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 (laughs)

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:32 They're not cheap though.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Yeah, that m- that money piles up.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 But when you're 29 years old like Conor, you don't even think about it.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:39 No, you don't.

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 He's just, he's thinking about now, not the future, and he probably thinks he's gonna make hundreds of millions more.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:43 That's the su- that's the sad part of it, man, man.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 Yeah.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:03:44 That's the sad, because doing what he's doing, whatever it is, a billion or whatever it is, it's not... a lot of money. It's, it's gonna run through you.

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 Well, there's that, and then there's the thing that really gets me is that what Conor is, is an exceptional world championship fighter. I mean, that's what he really is. All this other stuff is the, the bullshit is gonna get in the way of his legacy. I mean, he-

Alexander Gustafsson 1:04:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 His legacy shouldn't be a boxing match where he's TKO'd by the greatest boxer ever. That's fucking stupid.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:04:14 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 His legacy should be the next fight after Eddie Alvarez.

Alexander Gustafsson 1:04:17 Yeah, I know, I know what you mean, man.