JRE MMA Show #27 with Robin Black

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Four, three, two, one.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Four, three, two, one. (table slams) Robben Black, ladies and gentlemen.

   2. RBRobin Black0:09

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      What's up, buddy?

   4. RBRobin Black0:10

      Hey, man. It's great to see you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      Are you fresh back from Singapore?

   6. RBRobin Black0:12

      I am. Yeah, I was in Singapore like 48 hours ago.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Did they make that special shiny silver one for you?

   8. RBRobin Black0:18

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Because that looks like that was designed for you.

   10. RBRobin Black0:20

       No. It's ... I mean, yeah-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       (laughs)

   12. RBRobin Black0:22

       ... it does kinda look like it's designed for me, which is why I wanted it, you know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Yeah.

   14. RBRobin Black0:25

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       It's a Rock & Roll ONE Championship-

   16. RBRobin Black0:27

       Yeah. (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       ... ONE FC Championship. So what's it like over there, man?

   18. RBRobin Black0:30

       Man.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       So what ... Let me explain to everybody. ONE FC is like the Asian version of the UFC. It's a gigantic-

   20. RBRobin Black0:36

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       ... organization that has been going on for how long now?

   22. RBRobin Black0:38

       Uh, 2011.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       So solid seven years.

   24. RBRobin Black0:41

       Yeah, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       And really high-level fights over there.

   26. RBRobin Black0:44

       Amazing, amazing fights. Singapore itself is wild. So I went over there to chat with them. So Chatri, uh, Sityodtong runs it. And he and I had been chatting, and, and I love kinda w- how they see martial arts. So they don't call it even FC anymore. It's just ONE Championship.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Oh.

   28. RBRobin Black1:01

       They don't even use the word fighting really. It's martial arts. And the way I see it and the way I study martial arts and share it is an art form-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Mm-hmm.

   30. RBRobin Black1:11

       ... like painting or yoga or, you know, things, things of that nature. Less spectacle. That's always how I've seen it and always how I love it, and that's how they see it, and that's how they present it. And that's ... It's presented from this sort of inspirational, own your history kinda way in Asia.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. RBRobin Black15:00

      even at that point. Now he's at that point and he has a lower level thing, so... And, you know, he didn't... It was a mistake to start down this road, but you're down it now.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      Yeah.

   3. RBRobin Black15:09

      You're on it now. So-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:10

      I guess.

   5. RBRobin Black15:11

      ... you know-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:12

      It seems to me that, I mean, he's taken, what, two years-

   7. RBRobin Black15:16

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:16

      ... since that fight?

   9. RBRobin Black15:17

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:17

       It's been about two years?

   11. RBRobin Black15:18

       He's getting there, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:19

       And, uh, we've subsequently got to see Miki Gall in some contests against some really tough guys.

   13. RBRobin Black15:25

       Yeah, Age North-

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:26

       Beat them, and yeah.

   15. RBRobin Black15:27

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       Beat some good guys. And we got to see, like, "Okay, this kid is fucking for real." Which is what we suspected all along. Mm-hmm. But we don't know anything about Phil. We haven't seen him spar, we haven't seen him train. But from what I saw, when I first saw him training, the... The first... You know, when I first saw him sparring and moving around, I was like, "Goddamn, there's a lot of work to be done."

   17. RBRobin Black15:48

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       Like, you know, like first steps of Everest work to be done. It's like this is, um... We're not talking about a guy who has, like, a deep background in martial arts. Like Brock Lesnar. Yeah. You know, wrestling is absolutely a martial art. He was a legit top-of-the-food-chain amateur wrestler. He was a fucking monster. Yep.

   19. RBRobin Black16:06

       And a physical monster. I mean-

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:08

       Yeah.

   21. RBRobin Black16:08

       ... that and a psychological monster.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:10

       Right.

   23. RBRobin Black16:10

       Like, fighting is skills, for sure, but it's your body-

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       Mm-hmm.

   25. RBRobin Black16:14

       ... and it's your mind. And... And when you are a heavy competitor, when you focus, when you're able to focus in the deepest, most fearful conditions-

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:23

       Mm-hmm.

   27. RBRobin Black16:24

       ... you know? Brock Lesnar did that, you know?

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:26

       Yeah.

   29. RBRobin Black16:26

       And, uh, physically, when you're aware, like you said, when you're aware of where your body is in space and how to control it-

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       Mm-hmm.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. RBRobin Black30:00

      other perspective, these fight ending moments are there. They're there way more often than these guys realize. But when they spot them, like Matt did in that moment-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RBRobin Black30:09

      ... this is, I have a free shot from an angle.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:12

      Yeah.

   5. RBRobin Black30:12

      Time has slowed down enough that I see it. I can see the little red arc of where it's going-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:16

      Yeah.

   7. RBRobin Black30:16

      ... and I'm going to put this... I'm going to end this fight.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:18

      Right.

   9. RBRobin Black30:19

      It, it's... There's a visceral, like, like, uh, it's...

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       Here it is right here.

   11. RBRobin Black30:24

       Oh, lookit.You see it. See-

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:27

       Yep.

   13. RBRobin Black30:27

       ... just, like that, that is fucking art to me. But watch the left hand, the reach, and the hold. And it's like, there is no doubt what- what's happening here.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:38

       Do you-

   15. RBRobin Black30:38

       There is no doubt what's gonna happen.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:39

       Diego Sanchez is another curious example because he's also a guy who is ferocious, like a ferociously tough guy. But there's always been something about his movements that makes him come up short against-

   17. RBRobin Black30:54

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:54

       ... the best of the best.

   19. RBRobin Black30:55

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       And, I mean, you're talking about a guy who's so fucking mentally tough as well. Like, I always bring his fight against Jake Ellenberger, who is a brutal-

   21. RBRobin Black31:03

       Uh-huh.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       ... knockout artist at 170. And Diego really... I mean, Diego fought at 145, remember?

   23. RBRobin Black31:08

       Yeah, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:08

       And Diego really is a tweener. He's like-

   25. RBRobin Black31:11

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       ... a little too small for 55. I don't know how the-

   27. RBRobin Black31:13

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       ... fuck he made it to 145. He basically starved-

   29. RBRobin Black31:16

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       ... his body away and probably did some irrev- irreversible damage. But he fi- like, his movements are always just shy of elite. And I've always wondered, "What is that?" Like, he, uh, it's almost like even if you see that... Go back to that clip again. But you don't have to. It's okay.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      has, through Bang Ludwig, has really radically improved his movement, his footwork, his angles, his approach. He is so versatile with his ability to switch stances, his ability... I mean, he's constantly cutting angles and- and striking as he's switching-

   2. RBRobin Black45:17

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:17

      ... stances. And there's so much information coming at you if you're fighting him, your- your brain's overloaded if you're not used to that. And even the guys who used to train with him, I believe, in Alpha Male, are not used to what he's doing now.

   4. RBRobin Black45:30

      I agree.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:31

      Because it's, it's at a, it's, uh, at a far higher level. That said, Cody still has a fucking missile in his right hand.

   6. RBRobin Black45:38

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:38

      It's so goddamn fast. His hand speed is so fast and his, his fluidity and efficiency in his boxing is so good. This is a very, very interesting fight for me.

   8. RBRobin Black45:49

      That's about as good as it gets right now.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:52

      Yeah.

   10. RBRobin Black45:52

       Like, from the raw materials of those guys-

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:55

       Mm-hmm.

   12. RBRobin Black45:55

       ... and the skills that they have. But I- I am definitely with you as far as the- my deep curiosity of the choices of the coaches.

   13. JRJoe Rogan46:04

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RBRobin Black46:05

       Because... And you talk to some of them, different ones. You know, I've got a few key friends that I talk to on a very regular basis. And so, what it will take, what we would decide to do to train to make our guy the best in the wor- or try to be the best in the world in 10 months, if we take a different strategy and we start to build them to be the best in the world in three years, it's a different game.

   15. JRJoe Rogan46:26

       Mm-hmm.

   16. RBRobin Black46:26

       And that's what Duane's done.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:27

       Yeah.

   18. RBRobin Black46:27

       Duane has said, "We will..." And it's, it's fucking hard work for Duane too. Like, that's the thing that people won't necessarily appreciate. They'll be like, "Oh, he's a brilliant coach." That's non-stop constant searching and examining-

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:41

       Mm-hmm.

   20. RBRobin Black46:41

       ... and, and trial and error and reinterpreting his language of understanding where the, where the chaos is, and understanding, you know, can we make this guy believe something's happening or are we too deep in it that he doesn't think that and it fails?

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

   22. RBRobin Black46:57

       Like, what levels of misdirection are too deep? How good is he? And when I talked to them leading up to that one, it was like, you know, the conversation was about h- making Cody believe and anticipate something wrong. And that's the root of all, of all combat, right?

   23. JRJoe Rogan47:13

       Mm-hmm.

   24. RBRobin Black47:14

       Like, you make me think this is coming and I do this-

   25. JRJoe Rogan47:16

       Sure.

   26. RBRobin Black47:16

       ... and you kick me in the body.

   27. JRJoe Rogan47:17

       Yeah.

   28. RBRobin Black47:17

       And the layers, the multiple layers, like you just said, overloading the ability to... You're trying to catalog what's coming and how you chunk that, uh, we don't necessarily understand.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:28

       Right.

   30. RBRobin Black47:28

       So your brain may be going, "Okay, this is all the stuff from the left, which happens when this happens," or "The- the- the legs are doing this." Or... You're running algorithms in your brain and we don't kn- I don't know what yours is.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:10

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      I had been lied to already. I, when I went and f- took Taekwondo and then started kickboxing, first American kickboxing above the waist, first thing I realized was how easy it was for me to get punched in the face. I was like, "Oh, okay." Now if I'm trapped in this ring and I can't go anywhere and someone's throwing punches and I don't understand how to get away from them, and I'm used to this Taekwondo style-

   2. RBRobin Black1:00:20

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

      ... of having your hands down low, I'm getting fucked up. So I've been lied to.

   4. RBRobin Black1:00:23

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:23

      Taekwondo is not the best martial art. It's-

   6. RBRobin Black1:00:25

      None of them are.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

      Yeah, there's no... Exactly. None of them are.

   8. RBRobin Black1:00:28

      Exactly. There is no best martial art.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:29

      But there's something absolutely legit about that blitz...

   10. RBRobin Black1:00:33

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       ... that karate blitz...

   12. RBRobin Black1:00:35

       Yep.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:35

       ... that some of these guys can do. And I fought some really good guys in those karate style tournaments and, and I got an ass made out of me.

   14. RBRobin Black1:00:43

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:43

       I mean, you, you don't know what to do. Like, and if... You get kicked and then the referee's, "Point!" And you're like, "Ugh." You don't have a chance to fire back because they're separating you guys. And I, I really absorbed those lessons and I was like, in MMA, that ability to close the distance... Because every... In MMA, there's so many guys, and Conor talked about this, there's so many guys that have this Muay Thai stance and they're, they're presenting this very predictable target-

   16. RBRobin Black1:01:09

       They can.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

       ... standing right in front of each other. And I think-... this stance, and especially this, the, uh, change, the, the, the forward stance is one of the reasons why Vitor has been caught knocked out twice with front kicks-

   18. RBRobin Black1:01:21

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

       ... 'cause he squares off. Uh, Vitor explained this to me in like, shit, 1997 when I was training at Carlson Gracies. He was explaining that, you know, some kickboxers are going to have a hard time in MMA even though they're really good kickboxers because the MMA stance-

   20. RBRobin Black1:01:40

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       ... you really have to square off more.

   22. RBRobin Black1:01:42

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

       You can't stand like this. You can't stand like a boxer. And a kickboxer is a little more open than a boxer-

   24. RBRobin Black1:01:48

       Yep.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:48

       ... but then MMA is a little more open than that.

   26. RBRobin Black1:01:50

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:50

       He's like, "You almost have to be square." But that square leaves you open to front kicks to the face and then ster- turning side kicks and side kicks to the body. Think about what Vitor's been dropped with.

   28. RBRobin Black1:02:00

       Yep.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:00

       Jon Jones dropped him with a side kick to the body.

   30. RBRobin Black1:02:03

       Yep.

Episode duration: 2:32:39