EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,060 words- 0:02 – 3:19
Robin Black returns from Singapore: ONE Championship’s philosophy shift
- JRJoe Rogan
Four, three, two, one. (table slams) Robben Black, ladies and gentlemen.
- RBRobin Black
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
What's up, buddy?
- RBRobin Black
Hey, man. It's great to see you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Are you fresh back from Singapore?
- RBRobin Black
I am. Yeah, I was in Singapore like 48 hours ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did they make that special shiny silver one for you?
- RBRobin Black
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Because that looks like that was designed for you.
- RBRobin Black
No. It's ... I mean, yeah-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRobin Black
... it does kinda look like it's designed for me, which is why I wanted it, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a Rock & Roll ONE Championship-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... ONE FC Championship. So what's it like over there, man?
- RBRobin Black
Man.
- JRJoe Rogan
So what ... Let me explain to everybody. ONE FC is like the Asian version of the UFC. It's a gigantic-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... organization that has been going on for how long now?
- RBRobin Black
Uh, 2011.
- JRJoe Rogan
So solid seven years.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And really high-level fights over there.
- RBRobin Black
Amazing, amazing fights. Singapore itself is wild. So I went over there to chat with them. So Chatri, uh, Sityodtong runs it. And he and I had been chatting, and, and I love kinda w- how they see martial arts. So they don't call it even FC anymore. It's just ONE Championship.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- RBRobin Black
They don't even use the word fighting really. It's martial arts. And the way I see it and the way I study martial arts and share it is an art form-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
... like painting or yoga or, you know, things, things of that nature. Less spectacle. That's always how I've seen it and always how I love it, and that's how they see it, and that's how they present it. And that's ... It's presented from this sort of inspirational, own your history kinda way in Asia.
- 3:19 – 6:22
Martial arts as art vs “it’s still a fight”: why violence context matters
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Um, the martial art thing I absolutely agree with you on, that it is an art form. But I also think it's a fight. Like Gilbert Melendez versus Diego Sanchez.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's an art form, but it's a fight.
- RBRobin Black
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
That was, that was a fucking wild-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... fight. And there's no way that's just art. That's, that's art and a fight.
- RBRobin Black
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's both things.
- RBRobin Black
But a fight is art.
- JRJoe Rogan
In a way.
- RBRobin Black
It's expression of who you are.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. It is in a way.
- RBRobin Black
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
It's an expression of, of your personality, your individuality-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's-
- RBRobin Black
... your heart, your fearlessness.
- JRJoe Rogan
100%, but it's a fight. I'm not scared of the word fight.
- RBRobin Black
No, I'm not either. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, I like it. I like that word.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, it's ... But that it, it, it is an art form.
- RBRobin Black
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fights are art.
- RBRobin Black
Yes, definitely.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, like, Anderson Silva's second fight with Chael Sonnen. The way he landed that knee to the body on the ground.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, that is just art.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- 6:22 – 15:48
Failure as a gift: resilience lessons and the CM Punk case study
- RBRobin Black
And, you know, I think in Asia in particular, but there's different pockets of, of how these, this is viewed, and how the philosophy of, of connecting to martial arts and fighting is viewed. And in Asia, you would see, a certain amount of the fighters would see being ... Losing badly is a, a opportunity, a chance, because to come back and win again, or to come back and show that you're able-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RBRobin Black
... you, you were given the gift of trying and failing. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. I do know what you mean.
- RBRobin Black
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That's a great way to approach it. It's a great way to look at it. You know? I mean, that, that, uh, there really is a lesson that the average person can take in their life. Like, every time a person does have a bad thing happen to them, it's an, that, that terrible feeling is an opportunity to rise from the ashes.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. And winning when it's ... When you're just winning at everything and things come easily to you, that, I'm sure, still feels good. But when you've gone through really hard times, or when you've been challenged by something, or you drop lower, the high of the success is so much higher. It's so much of a longer journey. Personally, uh, like when we've spoke before and when we talked about, um, uh, CM Punk, when he was fighting the first time-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
... I was like, "This is stupid." You know? Uh, this guy is, is pushing, stacking himself into a position to try to not fail by making the challenge so difficult that even if he fails, he don't really. But this is fully different now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
Like now, I'm s- I'm cheering for him because he was humiliated. Like, he was ... He didn't just fail. He was humiliated. He, he ... In front of everybody, was shown to be ... You know, people would judge him as weak or, uh, y- people ... The judgment that he would feel is bad. And he said, "I'll go do it again." He ... Uh, we are now in a s- completely different context, because that's a guy who epically failed in front of everybody and then dealt with that, and now says, "I will try the journey again and this will make me a better person." And I now, I fully endorse this. I'm cheering for him now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he's now fighting a fighter who's commensurate in talent.
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, and there's nothing wrong with being a beginner in martial arts. But there's something wrong with thinking that you can be a beginner and fight Mickey Gall.
- RBRobin Black
Big time. As-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a f- It was a foolish venture. And I, I, I, wh- my approach to it was this is gonna be a very good lesson for people that are fans of positive thinking-
- RBRobin Black
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they think that's enough. That shit is not enough. Y- if you weigh 110 pounds, you can positive think your way t- to the bank. Francis Ngannou's still gonna punch your brains out. There's just no way around it. And a, a guy who has really very little experience-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in martial arts and has rudimentary control of his body ... I mean, that's-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... what I saw when I saw him training.
- RBRobin Black
100%.
- JRJoe Rogan
When I saw him training, I was like, "Oh, my God."
- RBRobin Black
He didn't belong there.
- JRJoe Rogan
"This guy is gonna get killed." Exactly.
- RBRobin Black
He did not belong there-
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly.
- RBRobin Black
... in that context. And I-
- JRJoe Rogan
But he belongs here.
- 15:48 – 18:52
Learning curves, body development, and why starting late changes outcomes
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, you know, like first steps of Everest work to be done. It's like this is, um... We're not talking about a guy who has, like, a deep background in martial arts. Like Brock Lesnar. Yeah. You know, wrestling is absolutely a martial art. He was a legit top-of-the-food-chain amateur wrestler. He was a fucking monster. Yep.
- RBRobin Black
And a physical monster. I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
... that and a psychological monster.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
Like, fighting is skills, for sure, but it's your body-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
... and it's your mind. And... And when you are a heavy competitor, when you focus, when you're able to focus in the deepest, most fearful conditions-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
... you know? Brock Lesnar did that, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
And, uh, physically, when you're aware, like you said, when you're aware of where your body is in space and how to control it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
... that can take a lifetime.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
And, uh, so it's a weird one, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
And I think it's something you also develop as a child, as a young kid. Oh. Like, when you're in your developmental years, 13, 14, 15, your body's growing and it's growing into whipping kicks and punches- Mm-hmm. ... and shooting take-downs and landing chokes, your body develops that way. When you're a full-grown man in your 30s and then you're starting to throw roundhouse kicks and front kicks- Yeah. ... and your... and your body's all goofy and shit and doesn't... Doesn't wanna listen right, it's not pliable, it's not elastic, it's just a... You're a different animal.
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm. You can still learn-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RBRobin Black
... anything. You... At s- 50 years old, you can take up anything in the world. You take up anything-
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck yeah.
- RBRobin Black
... and you should.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you should.
- RBRobin Black
But you shouldn't, you know, go in the NFL with it or if you start-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
... playing piano when you're 50, you should learn to play piano and show all your friends that you know the song or-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
But you can't go, like, you know, be in a concert piano scenario where you're going to fail. And... And doing it and saying, you know, "I believe," doesn't make a difference-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, when it doesn't make a difference.
- RBRobin Black
... when you can't physically or mentally or psychologically do these things. But I still think learning and... And growing and chasing things and self-improvement is the root of who we are.
- 18:52 – 23:28
Genetics, unicorn athletes, and Ngannou’s ‘found talent’ story
- JRJoe Rogan
I wonder too if those exceptions are genetic. I wonder if like maybe perhaps someone in their family was a great athlete and it's transferred through their genes, which I, I am, as I get older, a firm believer in. Um, I just don't think we know enough about what transfers through genes.
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
But there's some freaky shit I see in my kids in particular where I go, "Okay, that is my fucking personality."
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's, there's something... And I'm not teaching her to do this. This is something that's in her, like this, the repetitive, uh, d- g- like exercise, like doing things over and over again obsessively. Like there's, there's some weird shit that like, I'm like, "I wonder if that's a neural pathway that's passed down through the DNA." I mean, it just seems like there could be a person who's never engaged in athletics, but maybe their grandfather was like a world champion boxer. And then one day they put on the gloves and then they just sorta like start moving around and the, the coach was like, "Hey."
- RBRobin Black
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"What the fuck's going on here?"
- RBRobin Black
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"Where'd you learn how to throw your jab like that?"
- RBRobin Black
Um, I'm forgetting Francis Ngannou's coach's name.
- JRJoe Rogan
I forget his name as well.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah, um, Fernand Lopez.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yes.
- RBRobin Black
He's a wonderful guy, a smart guy, really, he's been around like the best of the best through Europe, so in Cameroon to France and these areas. And he's seen the best of the best that that genetic crop of humans has to offer.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
And then Francis Ngannou walks into his gym and you talk to... Yo, y- uh, next time you see Fernand, uh, ask him about this 'cause you see his eyes light up, like that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
... thing where there's like a color in the eye and he's like, "You know, I just knew." Like he said, "I watched him do things and his awareness of his body and how he could physically express himself," he said he'd just never seen anything like it. And this is, you know, week one in the gym, he said first sparring session, he didn't really know how to fight yet, but he said he saw him adapting and learning within the round against somebody who knew how to fight. And you see it in his eyes. He, he literally found a fucking unicorn-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
... that just strolled in off the street and came in and then he was like, "Man, if he's had some work ethic, if he is like, you know, if this, if he's passionate about this, if he can commit and learn and all that." He goes, "Physically, genetically speaking, this human being, the length of his bones, the s- the s- speed of his neurology, all of these things," he said, "you just knew."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
And you see it in his face, you're like, "Oh fuck, that must have been wild." Like, it must have been wild to, to experience that when you have a lifetime of seeing athletes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah. It's like that scene in The Color of Money. I don't know if you ever saw that movie.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah, of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
With, uh, Paul Mov- m- uh, Paul Newman and Tom Cruise. When, uh, Paul Newman hears Tom Cruise break the balls for the first time and turns around-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah, right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... he's like, "The fuck is going on over here?" And he looks over and he sees this kid. There's, there's certain people that just have this crazy talent and when someone has been around for a long time as a coach and had a bunch of untalented or reasonably talented or very talented people, there's this big stew of humans coming to their gym and you see that one unicorn that steps in. And he's also a case where his father, I mean, he doesn't have a background, he didn't have a background in martial arts before he started training, but his father was a great street fighter.
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's entirely possible that something was carried on through him.
- RBRobin Black
Or something was present in both that allowed them both to be capable of doing that.
- 23:28 – 25:55
Effort counts twice: a framework for talent, skill, and accomplishment
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. (laughs) Uh, in that movie, his brother is genetically superior to him, but he beats his brother in these swimming contests all the time. And at the end, his brother's like, "How are you doing this?" And he said, "I never saved anything for the swim back. I was just gonna swim to the other side." And his brother's like, "There is no fucking other side." But it was a mi- I know it's a movie, but it was a mindset, right? And the truth is that s- like talent, okay, so you're talented at certain things, Jamie's talented at certain things, Francis Ngannou, t- talented. Talent multiplied by effort equals skill.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
Then skill multiplied by effort equals accomplishment.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RBRobin Black
So effort counts twice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
Effort counts fucking twice.
- JRJoe Rogan
But then you get effort with a talented guy with freak genetics like a LeBron James or a Michael Jordan or a Brock Lesnar, and then you get some crazy results.
- RBRobin Black
Yes. Oh, big time. And the guy who doesn't have the, the talent but had effort twice, effort was applied twice, will go as far as... You know, the man or woman will go as far as they possibly could. They'll actualize their true potential by committing themselves to, to effort. And not going, "Well, I can't do it, so forget it." By applying effort over and over and over again, and then once you've developed talent, more effort to take that talent and do something, that twice used effort will get you as far as you possibly can. If you say, "Well, I'm not gifted, I'm not talented, so I won't put in any, any effort," you have no idea how far you can go. So I absolutely cannot beat Francis Ngannou, but by not thinking that I'm too limited by my genes and continuing to apply effort regardless of my genes, I can get to the best possible place I can as an individual.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
Do you know what I mean? So I think that, that on some... You don't want to go down some road that you... It cannot be accomplished, but you also don't want to not go down roads because you're not genetically predisposed to them. I think effort can get you somewhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, it definitely can get you somewhere, but I think what we're talking about here is what I love about life, is that it's messy.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That there's not... It's not one plus one is two.
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not, it's not zeros and ones. It's just, there's a bunch of factors.
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a lot of shit going on, man. And that's why when something magical takes place, when you get a, you know, a s- a Georges St-Pierre or when you, you get a Mighty Mouse, when you get someone who's like, "Whoa, like look at that." Like, there's, there's so many factors that lead you to be a Gennady Golovkin.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- 25:55 – 33:21
Mental toughness built through preparation: Bisping, Matt Brown, and ferocity
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? There's so many different things have to fall into place. Or here's a guy... Like, how about Michael Bisping? Like, Michael Bisping is just one of the toughest motherfuckers ever. He just found the perfect example.
- RBRobin Black
You just found the perfect example.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Michael-
- RBRobin Black
But you found the perfect example.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, Michael Bisping is one of the toughest motherfuckers ever. He's not extraordinarily talented in any one form of MMA. He's not like the fastest guy.
- RBRobin Black
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's not the strongest guy.
- RBRobin Black
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
He doesn't have this great background in Brazilian jiu-jitsu where he's just a world-class strangler and if he gets your back you're fucked. There's none of those things. He's just tough as fuck and he's one of the most mentally strong guys. Like, even Tim Kennedy, who was here the other day.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Tim Kennedy is like, "God, I hate to give him a compliment but he's so fucking tough."
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You can't, you can't deny him.
- RBRobin Black
You can't. So and, and that goes right back to this. And I think this is at the root of questions about life. Is Michael Bisping genetically tough? Is he genetically mentally tough? Or did he work really hard and just push himself through things, and that one day when it got really fucking tough he didn't give up, which taught him that he shouldn't give up, which taught him to go even further, which made him push himself? Like, or was it... In all likelihood, it's both. But Michael Bisping, free of that effort to continue to... Because, um, what's his name? Think of the mentally toughest guy that, um... I'm just... I have a thing with names sometimes. Even names I know I'll describe-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
... you know, a guy's got a chain and he's howling and he does a power slam, but I can't think of Rampage.
- JRJoe Rogan
Rampage Jordan. Right.
- RBRobin Black
I can't think of Rampage. But, um, uh, big elbows. You've had him probably on the podcast. Uh, tough, hairy chest.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRobin Black
Um, uh, who am I thinking of?
- JRJoe Rogan
What-
- RBRobin Black
170 pounds, fought Demian Maia. Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
Matt Brown?
- RBRobin Black
Matt Brown.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- RBRobin Black
Matt Brown.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- RBRobin Black
So, yeah. But that's examples.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hairy chest. (laughs)
- RBRobin Black
I can, I can literally say-
- 33:21 – 35:48
Power and relaxation: Sugar Ray Robinson, technique ‘snap,’ and the double-pulse idea
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I know what you're saying. Like, the, one of the things that people don't understand about striking hard and, like, having real power is that you're not fully tense through the entire movement. There's a lot of parts of striking where the momentum starts, and you're almost, like, completely loose, like, up until in- inst- instance before the point of contact. And then it's blang! There's this, there's this weird thing that real knockout artists have that you don't see in these fucking super-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... tense windmill guys.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The windmill guys are too tight.
- RBRobin Black
Totally.
- JRJoe Rogan
But a guy like Ray Robinson will throw a bap! Like, there's a, there was a Gene Fullmer-Ray Robinson KO clip from the other night. Uh, I was, I was watching it online. I must've watched it like 13 times-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in a row. But you watch him land this, I think it was a left hook, but you watch the, the punch land and you're like, "Jesus."
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, the snap of that guy had.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But that snap is not, it's not (grunts) it's not fully tense. Here it is, right here. Like, look how-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... loose and soft he is.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah, supple.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, soft. Boom! Look at that.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at that left hook. J-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right there. That one softens him up, ties him up. But everything is, like, the way he's-
- RBRobin Black
The way it's flowing.
- JRJoe Rogan
... moving. Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. He's swimming.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I mean-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's just, he was an amazing boxer, dude.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you're talking about a guy who had, like, psh, what do you... A 100 and something fights, right?
- RBRobin Black
He- it's, he's almost gentle, right? Like, he's-
- 35:48 – 44:12
Training the nervous system and the importance of feet (plus plantar fasciitis horror)
- RBRobin Black
And it's just, that's what I was z- zooming in on, was this double pulse. And that's real. That's, that is the neurology of high athletic performance. Um, so I have these friends that I've developed, or that I've gathered over the years. And I love what I do, man. Like, I'm happy every single day. And a big part of it is I've met these people that I have these conversations with. And sometimes they're very long and deep, and, and they've... Some, I have friends that are PhD psychologists. And this one guy, Dr. Stu McGill, do you know who he is?
- JRJoe Rogan
No. I know that name though.
- RBRobin Black
He's... Yeah. You've probably heard that name. I'm sure somebody has mentioned it because you're around different athletic types of all types. He is the world's foremost expert in the spinal cord and neurology of athletic performance.
- JRJoe Rogan
Spinal cord?
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. The spinal cord and how... And your neurology and your nerves and how your nervous system... And George St-Pierre has worked with him a lot. He, if you ask him about him this week, he would talk about him extensively. So, Dr. Stu and I became friends. And it's a big compliment, 'cause he sought me out based on seeing my work-... and saying, "That guy knows some things. I want to talk to him," which was a fucking deep compliment to me. And now we became friends and we chat all the time. And one of the things we constantly talk about is the double-pulse neurology. And people talk about a fast-twitch fiber. It's not a fiber, as... That's just terms we've started to hear. It's a fast-twitch neurology. It's, it's a, um, base, uh... Fastball hitters have it, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
That neurology where you, you... There's a pulse of tension and then a complete relaxation until the pulse of tension again. The Bruce Lee's one-inch punch was the simple example of that. But that is how, that is the neurology of high athletic performance. And that's what I zoomed in on when I was looking at your kick because you can see it quite clearly. There's the moment, there's the relax, and there's the hit, and it ends up being more of a whip. And Stu, Dr. Stu has all these incredible analogies because he's examined this in so many different angles and layers, which is the beauty of analyzing anything for years. And he'll use terms like, "You can't shoot a, a cannon out of a canoe." And you think about that and you're like, "Of course."
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause the canoe's all wobbly and shit. (laughs)
- RBRobin Black
Yeah, but if it's tense and then it shoots and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
Uh, or you can't push a rope, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh.
- RBRobin Black
You push a rope, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
And so... But you can whip a rope-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
... through tension, relaxation, and, and tension again. And that neurology is the neurology of high performance. And George... If you talk to George about neurology, he'll go deep down some shit, G- George St-Pierre, because he studied this to understand himself and what he was doing at a high level with Dr. Stu.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
But it is a fascinating thing because when you think... W- we often will say, you know, fighting is 90% mental. Sipping this cup is 100% mental, you know? My brain told my body to reach out and do it. My brain made this choice. I, I activated everything used. It's all your brain, everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
And once you get to a high level of performance, you know how to punch and kick and, and you train like crazy and you make the things happen by themselves almost by training so much they take so little attention in decision-making, it becomes about maximizing your nervous system, how your nervous system... And I think that's true of almost anything. But we-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is this something he's doing here?
- RBRobin Black
Oh, there's Dr. Stu right there. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. That's his-
- JRJoe Rogan
Who is he training with there? George, yeah.
- RBRobin Black
George and Dr. Stu.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, I couldn't see his face.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah. Yeah, that's George.
- JRJoe Rogan
He looks like a Black guy, to be honest. (laughs)
- 44:12 – 56:50
Dillashaw vs Garbrandt: high-level coaching, misdirection, and ‘lies on lies’
- JRJoe Rogan
TJ Dillashaw versus Cody Garbrandt, the rematch is one of the most intriguing fights-
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... of the year for me. I'm really, really curious about that fight because, uh, I know those guys were tightly matched in the gym. And I know that Cody cracked him with a big right hand before TJ put him away.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so, but-
- RBRobin Black
And he was stunned-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
... at the end.
- JRJoe Rogan
He was stunned.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, he got rocked. And, uh, I believe when Cody cracked him, it was towards the end of the round.
- RBRobin Black
It was.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And so, he had an opportunity to recover. I mean, who knows if he had caught that right hand the first minute of the round what had gone on. But when TJ recovered from that and then landed that head kick and then, you know, knocked him out and put him away, you- you got to see, like, what a high-level, high-stakes game these two guys are playing. And, you know, TJ has, through Bang Ludwig, has really radically improved his movement, his footwork, his angles, his approach. He is so versatile with his ability to switch stances, his ability... I mean, he's constantly cutting angles and- and striking as he's switching-
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... stances. And there's so much information coming at you if you're fighting him, your- your brain's overloaded if you're not used to that. And even the guys who used to train with him, I believe, in Alpha Male, are not used to what he's doing now.
- RBRobin Black
I agree.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because it's, it's at a, it's, uh, at a far higher level. That said, Cody still has a fucking missile in his right hand.
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so goddamn fast. His hand speed is so fast and his, his fluidity and efficiency in his boxing is so good. This is a very, very interesting fight for me.
- RBRobin Black
That's about as good as it gets right now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
Like, from the raw materials of those guys-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
... and the skills that they have. But I- I am definitely with you as far as the- my deep curiosity of the choices of the coaches.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
Because... And you talk to some of them, different ones. You know, I've got a few key friends that I talk to on a very regular basis. And so, what it will take, what we would decide to do to train to make our guy the best in the wor- or try to be the best in the world in 10 months, if we take a different strategy and we start to build them to be the best in the world in three years, it's a different game.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
And that's what Duane's done.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
Duane has said, "We will..." And it's, it's fucking hard work for Duane too. Like, that's the thing that people won't necessarily appreciate. They'll be like, "Oh, he's a brilliant coach." That's non-stop constant searching and examining-
- 56:50 – 1:14:02
Point karate, stance tradeoffs, and why no martial art is ‘the best’
- JRJoe Rogan
What kind of point karate training do they do? And do they-
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... do this to practice like, blitzing and-
- RBRobin Black
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
And just think of this, like, and I... You were big on point karate like, 2012, 2013.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRobin Black
And I didn't disagree, but I didn't really get... Oh, there it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
There it is, the mind of GSP.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah, there it is. Yeah. It, uh... Oh fuck, it was so magical to see. Like, and I wasn't just like, "How does he kick?" I'm like, "How does he think?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. Right.
- RBRobin Black
"And... Why does he do the things he does? And why, what's his motivation?" And it really made me a better human being, getting to do that. But, um, so what I didn't really connect to is s- sometimes there's something so simple and we don't see it because we're in, we're deep in a whatever we're in. But the idea of point karate, um, people right away say, "Well, they're just touching each other." It's like, true. So if I'm training to just touch you, I'm not training to hurt you. Okay, that seems like that's not valuable. Yeah but you're training to not let me even fucking touch you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
If you can't get touched by me, how hard, impossible is it for me to hit you clean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRobin Black
You know what I mean? If your movement and your, your defensive systems and your management of the, of the distance between our weapons and targets are such that I can't fucking touch you, how can I hurt you?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRobin Black
If I can't even like, get, touch you with my glove.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the thing is, here's what I think about point fighting and what I, what I think was valid about it, i- is if you're just doing point fighting with a point fighter, it is extremely frustrating. I fought in point fighting tournaments when I was competing and we, there was... I came from a full contact Taekwondo background, and we fought in these tournaments and the object was to knock people unconscious. And you would fight, you know, they were three minute rounds-
- RBRobin Black
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and you would fight and you would try to kick people into another dimension.
- RBRobin Black
I fought very similar in Canada when I was a kid.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. The... What we... There was a lot of people that I trained with that openly dismissed point fighting. And the reason why they openly dismissed point fighting was because they would stop every time someone would get touched.
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I would be like, "Well, in the real world..." Or everybody would say, "In the real world, you don't just stop when you get touched, you keep fighting." And so with our techniques, a lot of it, you would hit someone once and they would counter, and then you'd set up the big shot afterwards. Like, this is part of the thing. And if the, the referee kept stopping you, then you would never get anything done. But my thinking, once I got into MMA, was, "Okay, yeah, but if you can do that and do the other things."
- RBRobin Black
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like, people dismiss Taekwondo because they're like, "Well, Taekwondo, e- you know, you get taken to the ground, you get your legs kicked out." Absolutely. But if you have take-down defense and you know Muay Thai, you can wheel-kick someone into another fucking dimension. And we saw that with Edson Barboza versus Terry Adam. We've seen these Taekwondo techniques manifest themselves in MMA and you realize like, "Oh, th- these are some of the most powerful things you could do to a person inside a cage." But when you see the point fighting style, the like, the Raymond Daniels or the Michael Venom Page-
- RBRobin Black
Uh-huh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... this ability to blitz.
- RBRobin Black
Yeah.
Episode duration: 2:32:39
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