JRE MMA Show #29 with Cat Zingano

Joe Rogan 0:00 Here we go in four, three, two, one. (claps) Boom. And we're live, Cat. How are you?

Cat Zingano 0:08 I'm good. How are you doing?

Joe Rogan 0:09 Good to see you here.

Cat Zingano 0:10 Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Joe Rogan 0:11 My pleasure. My ple- I've been looking forward to talking to you for a while.

Cat Zingano 0:14 I know. It's, uh, I feel like been a long time coming. I, I don't even know how much time we have. I feel like there's a, a hell of a lot to catch up on. So-

Joe Rogan 0:21 Yeah. There's a lot to talk about, always. You're, uh, getting ready for Boise? That's your, uh, your next fight?

Cat Zingano 0:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:26 Who you fighting?

Cat Zingano 0:27 Um, Maryan Renau. Um, July 14th at the CenturyLink Arena.

Joe Rogan 0:32 Now, you took ... You took a good stretch off, right?

Cat Zingano 0:37 A couple times.

Joe Rogan 0:37 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 0:38 A couple times. I, um ... Let's see. After I fought Miesha, I blew my knee, and then the world exploded. And so I had, I think, 18 months off between that and fighting, uh, Amanda.

Joe Rogan 0:50 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 0:50 And then, after I fought Amanda, I ... So Amanda was, like, September 27th, something like that. And I fought Rhonda February 28th, and then after Rhonda, uh, took another big stretch off. Fought Juliana the following year, uh, July 9th, and then this was another big stretch off. So yeah, it's been a little bit scattered, but doing what I can.

Joe Rogan 1:14 Yeah, and you were, you were doing some crazy therapy too, right? Some, some interesting stuff down in San Diego.

Cat Zingano 1:20 Yeah, so, um, there's, there's been a few things I've been working on. Like, I'm not a huge fan of Western medicine, you know? Like, uh, even ... Uh, I mean, you can call it alternative medicine, it's like original medicine. I, I appreciate looking at things like that way more than, you know, big farm, but I, uh ... You know, one thing that, um, you know, fighting has gotten me and, and stuff with, you know, I th- I think it's more prevalent in women al- although I'm sh- thinking it's happening with men too, is like, our endocrine systems are not happy with these weight cuts, and they're not happy with us, like, getting hit in the head a lot.

Joe Rogan 1:51 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 1:51 I mean, go figure, right? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:52 Yeah, go figure.

Cat Zingano 1:54 So, um, you know, within all of that, I've just, you know, had medical problems and things that, like, I'm constantly working on, and I feel really good. I'm, I'm constantly improving, but, um, one thing I was feeling a little bit stuck on was, uh, one, I was like, some of the endocrine problem issues, but, um, like, uh, I don't know. I, I had, uh, had... I went to this facility in, in San Diego's called, um ... Dang, why can't I remember? Oh, uh, Mindset. And actually the UFC sent me there because, I mean, we have USADA, we have all of these things like, um ... After fighting Amanda, I got my head pounded for a good four minutes there. Um, I had a TBI afterwards, so that was like, uh, immediately lowered my, uh, estrogen, lowered by DHEA, my testosterone, and I'm hypothyroid. Like, I will always be hypothyroid now. Like, I have-

Joe Rogan 2:46 After that fight?

Cat Zingano 2:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:48 Wow.

Cat Zingano 2:48 And, um, you know, still toughed it out, still was trying to do what I could to go and fight Rhonda as soon as I did afterwards, and, you know, part of my game plan is don't get hit, and which means, like, let's just dart at her and see what happens, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:01 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 3:01 So, well, that's what happens when you do that. Um-

Joe Rogan 3:04 Yeah. So people who don't know, TBI is traumatic brain injury, just in case there's someone who's listening to this doesn't understand what we're talking about.

Cat Zingano 3:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:10 And then in the Rhonda fight, if people don't know about that, you just charged after her and you got caught in an arm bar, and like, what was it? Very quick. It was like 14 seconds.

Cat Zingano 3:16 Okay. It was 14 seconds, but I did hit her with a knee. I did throw her ass, but (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 3:22 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 3:23 ... she practiced a little ninja move and caught my damn arm-

Joe Rogan 3:26 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 3:26 ... and it was, it was over, you know? But, I mean, even, even her coaches were like, "I mean, that's ... You did what you're supposed to do there, and she just got you." You know?

Joe Rogan 3:34 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 3:34 So, um, that would be an awesome fight to be able to revisit one day. Uh, she even said we'd do it. I mean, who knows? Her career is so open right now.

Joe Rogan 3:40 I don't think she's ever gonna fight again.

Cat Zingano 3:42 She doesn't need to.

Joe Rogan 3:43 Yeah, I just-

Cat Zingano 3:43 She really doesn't need to.

Joe Rogan 3:44 I don't think she wants to, you know?

Cat Zingano 3:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:47 I think, uh ... I don't mean, who knows? You'd have to ask her, but there's a lot of lessons to be learned in what happened to her.

Cat Zingano 3:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:55 In terms of, like, all of the distractions and Hollywood came calling and there were scripts and talk about doing Road House-

Cat Zingano 4:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:03 ... and there was all this, all this shit going on that was other than fighting.

Cat Zingano 4:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:08 You know? And then it was also, look, the sport has evolved so rapidly and the women's, women's MMA has gotten so high level so quickly, and if you ... I'm sure you saw Amanda's last fight-

Cat Zingano 4:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:22 ... with, uh, Raquel Pennington. Like, holy shit. I mean, uh, so ... That was a fucking high level performance-

Cat Zingano 4:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:29 ... from her, and five rounds, super high cardio. Just put a beating down on Raquel Pennington, who's one of the toughest girls in the world, for sure.

Cat Zingano 4:39 Right. I do ... Like, I mean, I'm cur- I'm saying the same thing as the fight's going, right? And then I have, uh, some people in my ear next to me. They're like, "Well, how long has it been since Raquel fought?" 'Cause she didn't look her-

Joe Rogan 4:50 Right.

Cat Zingano 4:50 ... her, like, beefiest, right? She, she looked a little tired. She looked a little, like, not her typical. And then it's, it's like she's a year and a half off herself, right?

Joe Rogan 4:59 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cat Zingano 4:59 Like, right into a title fight, which I have to say, I'm a little bit envious of, because when I beat Miesha, I won, uh ... I was supposed to coach Ultimate Fighter, but that was al- ultimately gonna end up in a title shot with Rhonda, and I blew my knee, and my husband passed away, and there was, like, a, a long moment of silence in there, and then when I was able to come back, they made me re-earn my title shot.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Mm.

Cat Zingano 5:23 You know? And so it was like, wait, oh, we're doing that now? We're just like ... You know?

Joe Rogan 5:26 Well, it doesn't depend on, like, what, uh, what attractive contenders are available? Like, what they can sell-

Cat Zingano 5:32 I agree. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:32 ... and what looks good.

Cat Zingano 5:33 I agree.

Joe Rogan 5:33 And-

Cat Zingano 5:33 Yeah, I mean, I was very young at that-

Joe Rogan 5:35 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 5:35 ... at that age, or at that, that time too.

Joe Rogan 5:37 Right. And in bantamweight right now, there's like ... There's no standout contender, and Raquel had beaten some really good fighters.

Cat Zingano 5:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:44 And sh- she looked like the next in line, and ... Did she blow her knee out as well? She had some sort of surgery-

Cat Zingano 5:48 I wanna say she got, like ... Oh, I could be lying, but I think she got in, like, some accident with a four-wheeler, like rolled over and broke her leg, or ...

Joe Rogan 5:56 Mm.

Cat Zingano 5:57 Something. I could, like, totally be making that up though. She coulda just twisted it walking down the street too, so I don't know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:02 (laughs) You just vaguely remember some injury.

Cat Zingano 6:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:05 I ... Now that you're saying that, I do remember something like a br- a broken leg.... but were you, uh, were you surprised by that fight?

Cat Zingano 6:15 Uh, between Raquel and Amanda?

Joe Rogan 6:17 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 6:18 Yeah. I mean, I didn't, (sighs) I didn't see Raquel being the one to beat her, you know?

Joe Rogan 6:21 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 6:22 Um, I do feel like Amanda's been working and doing, like, you know, improving. I mean, she changed her camp. The coaches that she's working with, I tried out for a while at one point too when I was trying to find my spot, and they're legit. They're very good. Um, and American Top Team has a lot of high-level training partners, both girls and guys, you know? I mean, she had a good, uh, a good decision made there. So, I, I see how she's improved. Um, I think with the time off with Raquel, I wa- I wasn't sure how it was gonna go, but also, I just, I just don't know. I, I just don't see Raquel being the, be- being the one that beats her.

Joe Rogan 6:54 It's so hard to tell, you know, right? I mean, no one... Anybody, on any given night, at the highest level of the game, someone can win. Someone could be off, someone could be on.

Cat Zingano 7:02 Oh, yeah. There's no math to be done in this sport.

Joe Rogan 7:04 (clears throat)

Cat Zingano 7:04 There really isn't.

Joe Rogan 7:05 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 7:06 I mean-

Joe Rogan 7:06 The MMA math is ridiculous, yeah.

Cat Zingano 7:07 No, I mean, sometimes I hear, like, statistics on me, or, or definitions on me, or, or labels on me, and I'm like, "Wait. I'm a, I'm a, I'm, I'm a known striker?" Like, I never would've thought I'd be known as a striker. I mean, I've been jiu-jit- doing jujitsu and wrestling my whole life, so I mean, I'll take it. Fuck yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:22 Well, it was the Mii- the Miesha KO, probably.

Cat Zingano 7:24 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:25 Probably certified it.

Cat Zingano 7:25 But even that, it's... Y- yes, but, I mean, that, that in itself was like, I love to wrestle, and what can I do once I've closed that distance? Well, it's those, those short angle strikes, you know?

Joe Rogan 7:36 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 7:36 There's, there's knees and there's elbows there, that, those are the most destructive things I could possibly do to someone when the, when we're that close, and-

Joe Rogan 7:42 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 7:42 ... to do all that work to get that close. But granted, that's all influenced by Muay Thai and what I got to learn from that discipline. So, you know, it, it's all relevant. But, um, you know, it's, uh, it's always just interesting to, to hear how you're now being categorized, you know?

Joe Rogan 7:58 Yeah, it is weird, right? (laughs)

Cat Zingano 8:00 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:00 But you are, you are definitely a striker. I mean, you're dangerous.

Cat Zingano 8:04 I agree. I mean, I like it, and, and I'm, I'm enjoying constantly learning and new things. Like, the, the basics were always hard for me to get, because I wanted to do the big girl stuff, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:15 Right.

Cat Zingano 8:16 And, uh, you know, found my way, like, right in the middle of all of that, and, and found a way to use how aggressive I am, and how just, like, domineer- domineering I can feel in there, and, and all of that. So, it's, it's like, I don't know, the... I want the maximum amount of damage without taking damage, which is obviously the goal, right?

Joe Rogan 8:34 Right.

Cat Zingano 8:34 But, like, I wanna put it into a dance. So, it's like a little... I don't know.

Joe Rogan 8:39 What made you decide to go to San Diego? So, you're at Alliance now, right?

Cat Zingano 8:43 Um-

Joe Rogan 8:43 So, you moved from Colorado to San Diego.

Cat Zingano 8:46 So, a few things. So, one of them, one of them was, like, Colorado was a complicated situation for me. I mean, I had gyms up there. Like, a lot just personally happened up there. Um, and I love my team at Elevation. Like, I love... I s- I'm still close with everybody. Like, I, I go to Colorado for Christmas holidays. Like, it's still home, you know? But, uh, a couple of things. One, with the head injury, um, Colorado is amazing for training, right? It's amazing for building your, your endurance, and, and whatever, but it is not good for healing. Like, you'll never s- see a doctor tell someone with Alzheimer's, or a TBI, or heart problems, or e- even, like, massive allergies, or, um, what's the, uh-

Joe Rogan 9:27 Arthritis?

Cat Zingano 9:27 Arthritis. Like, those are not... That's not a good place for people to live with any kind of inflammatory or, like, major thing that needs to be healing. 'Cause your body's already working at such a high level, because-

Joe Rogan 9:38 Because of the altitude?

Cat Zingano 9:38 Yeah, because of the altitude. I mean, the thin air, the, the things like that, it's just like... I, I spent s- so much time and so (laughs) much money, like, figuring out what the hell was wrong with me, that, you know, I ended up at the Mayo Clinic spending weeks at a time going to all their, like, specialized different, uh, doctors and situations like that, for them to tell me, like, "You know, if you want to heal, you wanna give yourself the best opportunity to heal, you're probably not gonna do it up at altitude."

Joe Rogan 10:09 Really?

Cat Zingano 10:09 "Like, we would prefer seeing you at sea level."

Joe Rogan 10:11 Wow.

Cat Zingano 10:11 And, so, uh, combined, like, I kinda... I needed to almost exile myself from Colorado, 'cause I wanna love it, and I was starting to... It was starting to get, like, less colorful for me, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:23 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 10:23 'Cause I felt like I had the best there was, as far as coaches, and the best there was, as far as training partners, and the situations. Like, everything was as good as it was gonna get. Like, it, it literally was as good as it was gonna get, and it was like, "This, this can't be it." Like, "I don't feel, I don't feel right." And-

Joe Rogan 10:39 You don't feel like you're at your maximum?

Cat Zingano 10:41 No. And, and I was like, "That means I'm gonna have to take a change." You know? And I was scared, like... (laughs) I have a little boy. Like, I'm taking him away from everything we know, and we just packed a U-Haul, and we left, and we, we got to San Diego.

Joe Rogan 10:52 And what made you decide on San Diego?

Cat Zingano 10:54 I went... I wish I had written down, like, all the gyms I went to, and showed up at, like, anonymously too, because I didn't want them to, like... I wanted to kinda catch them with their pants down. Like, "What are you guys like-"

Joe Rogan 11:05 Right.

Cat Zingano 11:05 "... right now?" Versus, if you're prepared, I don't wanna show up and have you have people here watching me. I don't want you to put on a show. Like, I wanna catch you wh- how you are, and, like, have you decide what you think of me too, because these needs, this needs to be a fit. I mean, fighting-

Joe Rogan 11:18 Right.

Cat Zingano 11:18 ... and coaching, and training, is very intimate, and, and it needs to be authentic and real. The days I'm sitting there, ugly white girl, crying on the ground, but I need, I need you to tell me to keep... stay on the (laughs) aerodyne. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 11:30 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 11:30 Like, just let me cry.

Joe Rogan 11:31 Right.

Cat Zingano 11:31 You know? That kind of thing.

Joe Rogan 11:32 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 11:32 And, um, it's, uh... So, I went to all these places, and like, I... The best part about it is that I got to learn and train with so many fighters and so many coaches that I, like... I'm so excited about the relationships I made, and the people I know. But, um, like, all of them, it was like, "This is awesome, but it's not the place. This is awesome, but it's not the place." I came up to LA, uh, if... And I was very close to going to American Top Team. They had a awesome deal set up for me to go, like, helping me with my kid, helping me with, um-... a good percentage for training, like how, uh, living situation was gonna be. They were gonna accommodate me really well. Um, but when it was time to, like, pack my car and go, like, something was, like, that wasn't it, you know? And so, I'm, like-

Joe Rogan 12:14 Florida, that's the problem.

Cat Zingano 12:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:17 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 12:17 I mean, sweaty all the time-

Joe Rogan 12:19 It's-

Cat Zingano 12:19 ... like, right here. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:19 Yeah. Underboob sweat. (laughs)

Cat Zingano 12:22 Yeah. There's no-

Joe Rogan 12:22 It's just-

Cat Zingano 12:22 ... making that look hot.

Joe Rogan 12:24 It's, it's, uh-

Cat Zingano 12:24 It's not. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:24 ... it's just the humans there. There's a lot of cool people in Florida.

Cat Zingano 12:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:28 But there is just ... There's some subhumans down there.

Cat Zingano 12:31 Yeah. I-

Joe Rogan 12:32 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 12:32 I really appreciated, like, the Latin culture. I mean, I'm all about-

Joe Rogan 12:35 Oh, I love that part.

Cat Zingano 12:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:36 It's the white people.

Cat Zingano 12:37 (laughs) Right? It's like, damn.

Joe Rogan 12:39 It's Florida white people.

Cat Zingano 12:40 Damn. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:40 It's not all of them, but there's some fucking swamp people down there that are-

Cat Zingano 12:43 Damn.

Joe Rogan 12:43 ... like, "Yo."

Cat Zingano 12:44 No joke. No joke. Um, so, uh, then I looked west, you know? Um-

Joe Rogan 12:49 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 12:50 I know Ed Soares out here. He's my manager. And, and I had a, a few pockets of people I knew that could maybe be a support to me and my kids, so, um, came to LA. If I was here, I was gonna go to Black House.

Joe Rogan 12:59 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 13:00 Uh, I think, um, uh ... Oh, where's Calvin Kossoul I'm training in?

Joe Rogan 13:06 Kelvin Gastelum?

Cat Zingano 13:07 God, I say his name wrong every time. But-

Joe Rogan 13:08 Um, where is he training now?

Cat Zingano 13:10 His coach, the Muay Thai coach, Kings. Kings.

Joe Rogan 13:12 Oh, Kings. Oh, man.

Cat Zingano 13:12 Okay, I was going to Kings, Black House, and I was still trying to pick jiu-jitsu. Like, I wanted, like, a art of jiu-jitsu guy-

Joe Rogan 13:19 Mm-hmm. Right, right.

Cat Zingano 13:20 ... or a, or a sh- sh- you know, just-

Joe Rogan 13:22 Someone really good. Yeah.

Cat Zingano 13:23 Yeah, because I came from traditional traditional jiu-jitsu, and, like, I love MMA and mixing it up, but I, I need that.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Right.

Cat Zingano 13:30 So I-

Joe Rogan 13:30 What belt are you in jiu-jitsu?

Cat Zingano 13:32 Purple for, like, ever. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:35 For how long?

Cat Zingano 13:36 Like, six years, maybe.

Joe Rogan 13:37 How come so long?

Cat Zingano 13:38 Because I'm being a weirdo about who promotes me. 'Cause my husband-

Joe Rogan 13:42 Oh, really?

Cat Zingano 13:42 My husband promoted me to purple belt, and, like, I really want what, whoever takes over the lineage to be, like, that. Like, I don't want a, a different one from 10 different people.

Joe Rogan 13:52 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 13:52 Like, I, I want that, like ... I wanna pick and it be right. And so actually now I'm super excited because I just started training at Atos.

Joe Rogan 14:01 Okay.

Cat Zingano 14:01 And I have so much respect for Andre and his wife, Andre Delval.

Joe Rogan 14:04 Yeah, he's awesome.

Cat Zingano 14:04 And Angelica, they're so good.

Joe Rogan 14:06 Andre Delval. There's so many good fighters that come-

Cat Zingano 14:07 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 14:07 ... out of that gym, too great jiu-jitsu fighters.

Cat Zingano 14:09 I- I've been training there, like, four weeks now. And I- I've, I mean, I've trained there before, but, like, every day for weeks now, and I've only had, like, one day where I walked out feeling like a rock star.

Joe Rogan 14:21 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 14:21 The rest of the days, they were whooping my ass, but it was good, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:24 Right, right.

Cat Zingano 14:24 Like, I needed that.

Joe Rogan 14:25 Super-

Cat Zingano 14:25 And it tells me, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:26 ... super high level.

Cat Zingano 14:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:27 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 14:27 And, um, there i- i- it's just been so good, and to see myself that way and to hold people that way, like, I was legit at jiu-jitsu, man. I was, like, killing it on the circuit for a long time. And then MMA comes in and puts this pressure on, like, even those kinds of competitions, even though they're not even the same animal. And I'm, I'm annoyed that I let that bother me and keep me from competing in between fights 'cause I loved that.

Joe Rogan 14:48 So you mean because you have a big name in, in MMA, you feel weird about competing in jiu-jitsu tournaments?

Cat Zingano 14:53 I, I think I did. I, I-

Joe Rogan 14:55 Yeah?

Cat Zingano 14:55 Or, or maybe I thought I'd pick up bad habits-

Joe Rogan 14:57 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 14:57 ... or I would do whatever, but because maybe other people had that experience. But, like, for me, I need to see it for myself. Like, if I go and I do a tournament and I do great, then hell yeah, I'm gonna have higher expectations of myself in a fight. If I go and I do shitty, okay, well, like, now I get to learn. Like, that ... Competing is where I get to learn everything, and spacing out these competitions, especially the time I've had to take off in between fights, like, like, I'm not s- ... I don't believe necessarily in ring rust, but, like, when they say go, I, I don't know what go means until a little bit later than I'm expecting. And, and it's been the pattern in these last two fights.

Joe Rogan 15:34 You mean when the fight starts, you still feel like, "Is this really happening?"

Cat Zingano 15:38 Kinda. Well-

Joe Rogan 15:39 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 15:39 ... even this last fight, this last fight with Ketlyn, like, we got in, and I was like, "Do I remember what to do here?" You know? And I was like, "Fuck it. I'm just gonna throw bombs." And the whole time (laughs) I was just like ... And I'm not e- that's not me either, you know? I was just like-

Joe Rogan 15:51 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 15:51 ... chucking my hands at her and hoping they land. And if they didn't, like, get the fuck out, you know?

Joe Rogan 15:55 So d- did you feel, like, out of composure?

Cat Zingano 15:58 Yeah, until the, until the third round. And then the third round, I was awake and ready to go. And I mean, I felt warmed up. I felt right. And, you know, she was looking at the clock and backing up and all this, and I was just like, "Come here, come here." Like, "I'm ready to fight finally." Like, "Come here." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:12 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 16:13 And, uh, you know, I don't know. So there's something to be fixed about that. Uh, I don't think it's a secret, but, um, I- I don't know. I think maybe something with the warmup. I need to, like, fully, like, have, like, a respiratory exhaustion before I go in so I can simulate those first rounds being the hell out of the way. Um, even in wrestling-

Joe Rogan 16:31 So you think it's just a, a nerve thing or-

Cat Zingano 16:32 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 16:32 ... an adrenaline thing?

Cat Zingano 16:34 I ... You know, there's, there's a lot to it. Like, um ... Gosh, we're bouncing around all these different things.

Joe Rogan 16:41 That's fair.

Cat Zingano 16:41 But I mean, one thing with the, with that treatment center that I went to is, like, um, doing different things, like, dealing with your psychology, dealing with, like, the synchrony in your brain, you know, having your brain function in, in the, on the same hertz at the same or different areas of your brain.

Joe Rogan 16:56 What ... So what do they do exactly? What, uh-

Cat Zingano 16:58 So it's-

Joe Rogan 16:58 How is this therapy?

Cat Zingano 16:59 So it's these magnets, right? Like, the, the main people in there are ... I mean, it's beautiful, not beautiful, but beautiful to see sitting in the lobby waiting when you see people with Alzheimer's come in. Like, there's a man that wheels his wife in every day, and, and you can, you can ... I think at the beginning of the week, she gets, like, an IV, so she's, like, a little bit more up and chipper. But by the end of the week, you know, she's a little bit more slouched and, and stories like his where he's talking about, um, you know, before they started going in there, she would just go to the bathroom, uh, all over. And every day, this man takes care of his wife, puts her makeup on her, like, goes and gets her hair done, even though she doesn't even know, you know? And now she can at least tell him that she needs to go to the bathroom.

Joe Rogan 17:45 Wow.

Cat Zingano 17:45 Like, just be like, "Hey, hey, it's time."

Joe Rogan 17:47 Right.

Cat Zingano 17:47 You know? And he can get her there. And then, you know, sort of kind of have, like, meaningful moments that they haven't had in a while for ... Uh, and there's a ton of veterans in there, um, and active veterans too, active, uh, military guys that are, you know, they're doing these door breaches, and then they get their head rattled up too many times, and they're noticing they have problems with some depression. I mean, and these are high level Navy SEALs, high level, like, like, special forces that need, um-... need, they're expensive people. They've, there's millions of dollars poured into these people and they're not ready to let them go yet, so they're like, "How can we fix them? Give them this, like, performance edge, but still get them, like, eh, like, healed enough, s- but we need, we need to throw them back in there."

Joe Rogan 18:29 Right, right.

Cat Zingano 18:29 "They, we need them," you know? And so, I've had to sit in on appointments with the Department of Defense and talk about my experience with it. I had to, uh, I, uh, I don't, I... There's some really famous people I don't even think I getta say 'cause I'd be a dick and I'm gonna probably be in trouble.

Joe Rogan 18:43 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 18:44 But, um, that I've sat in on, and, you know, they've had their own issues with, uh, mental health, or PTSD, or, um, uh, their, like, autism, different things, like family members of theirs or whatever that I've sat in on and kind of been helpful and talking about. Because I went in there on two different antidepressants, um, and these I was put on at the Mayo Clinic. And I felt like-

Joe Rogan 19:07 This is post the Nunes fight.

Cat Zingano 19:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:09 This is how crazy MMA math is, right? Uh, you lose to Rhonda in 14 seconds. You KO Amanda Nunes. Amanda Nunes beats the shit outta Rhonda in 48 seconds.

Cat Zingano 19:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:23 Like, that's h- that's... You might be, like, the perfect example-

Cat Zingano 19:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:26 ... of MMA math-

Cat Zingano 19:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:28 ... you know? And I mean, crazy. It's crazy. You've-

Cat Zingano 19:30 Well, and it's g-

Joe Rogan 19:31 ... you, you've beaten down two UFC champions.

Cat Zingano 19:34 Well, and it, I mean, I took, it took two and a half rounds for me to, for me to sub Pennington too.

Joe Rogan 19:40 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 19:41 You know? Like, eh, there's nothing, like, you know, but who is it? Pennington goes toe to toe and round to round with Holly. Holly knocks out Rhonda Two.

Joe Rogan 19:50 Yep. Yep.

Cat Zingano 19:50 Like, it's just, this division is-

Joe Rogan 19:52 Pennington's fight with Ashley Evan Smith to this day, that, the ending, when she got her in that bulldog choke-

Cat Zingano 19:59 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... she was covered in blood-

Cat Zingano 19:59 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... and finished her, like literally one second.

Cat Zingano 19:59 It was so violent. That was funny. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:59 It was crazy. I, I screamed so loud at the end of that. It was just fucking chaos.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:59 That was... She's done, she's had two fights that ended like that. With, like, one second to go she finishes the fight.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 She's a tough girl.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Um, so the, anyway, MMA math is ridiculous, doesn't work.

Cat Zingano 19:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:59 Um, and you might be the best example of how it doesn't work. But, so you go to this... The, the Mayo Clinic puts you on antidepressants-

Cat Zingano 19:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... because you just feel like shit?

Cat Zingano 19:59 I feel like shit, and because, like, uh, of the, the different endocrine problems that I had, right? So I can't have, um, any of the medications that'll help that, so I have to be more conservative with it. And one way they thought to do it is 'cause my cortisol levels were really high, they're talking about, um... And I mean, granted, I have a lot of stress, especially like-

Joe Rogan 19:59 Right.

Cat Zingano 19:59 ... you know? Life hasn't been easy these past, like-

Joe Rogan 19:59 Single mom, your husband passes away.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Yep.

Joe Rogan 19:59 You're in the toughest, probably the toughest sport on the planet Earth.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Trying to be the best at it too.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Yeah. Yeah.

Cat Zingano 19:59 So-

Joe Rogan 19:59 And you're elite. You're in the top 10, so you're, you're in this weird position where you, you never know when you're gonna fight or who you're gonna fight. There's a constant amount of stress. And it's not like you're making millions of dollars doing it either.

Cat Zingano 19:59 No. Well, and it's expediting healing for me, and, and I also have a kid going through what I'm going through.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Right.

Cat Zingano 19:59 So it's not like I get to, like, split and cut corners and just-

Joe Rogan 19:59 Right.

Cat Zingano 19:59 You know? It's like there's maintenance to be done at all times with that. So I go there. They tell me, "You know, we could probably lower your cortisol levels if we could lower, lower your stress levels, so we'll try antidepressants."

Joe Rogan 19:59 And what did that make you feel like when they-

Cat Zingano 19:59 Flat-

Joe Rogan 19:59 Flat?

Cat Zingano 19:59 ... as fuck. And, like, I didn't... Am I, can I, can I say "fuck" on this?

Joe Rogan 19:59 We already did, yeah.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Okay.

Joe Rogan 19:59 We s- you can say anything.

Cat Zingano 19:59 I know. I just didn't know if I have a quota.

Joe Rogan 19:59 No, no, no, no, no.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Like-

Joe Rogan 19:59 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 19:59 ... befo- before I'm, like, a bad person.

Joe Rogan 19:59 We could go light.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Like, do I get added to, like, a, do I get added to a certain list?

Joe Rogan 19:59 No.

Cat Zingano 19:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:59 There's zero restrictions. You can say whatever you want on this show.

Cat Zingano 19:59 All right. All right. Done.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Okay.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Um, that I've sat in on and, you know, they've had their own issues with, uh, mental health or PTSD or, um, uh, their, like, autism, different things, like family members of theirs or whatever that I've sat in on and kind of been helpful and talking about. Because I went in there on two different antidepressants, um, and these I was put on at the Mayo Clinic. And I felt like-

Joe Rogan 19:59 This is post the Nunes fight.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 This is how crazy MMA math is, right? Uh, you lose to Rhonda in 14 seconds. You KO Amanda Nunes. Amanda Nunes beats the shit outta Rhonda in 48 seconds.

Cat Zingano 19:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Like, that's how, that's... You might be, like, the perfect example-

Cat Zingano 19:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... of MMA math-

Cat Zingano 19:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... you know? And I mean, crazy. It's crazy. You've-

Cat Zingano 19:59 Well, and it's g-

Joe Rogan 20:00 ... you, you've beaten down two UFC champions.

Cat Zingano 20:00 Well, and it, I mean, I took, it took two and a half rounds for me to, for me to sub Pennington too.

Joe Rogan 20:02 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 20:02 You know? Like, eh, there's nothing, like, you know, but who is it? Pennington goes toe to toe and round to round with Holly. Holly knocks out Rhonda Two.

Joe Rogan 20:02 Yep. Yep.

Cat Zingano 20:02 Like, it's just, this division is...

Joe Rogan 20:02 Pennington's fight with Ashley Evan Smith to this day, that, the ending when she got her in that bulldog choke-

Cat Zingano 20:02 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:02 ... she was covered in blood-

Cat Zingano 20:02 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:02 ... and finished her, like literally one second.

Cat Zingano 20:03 It was so violent. That's why. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:04 It was crazy. I, I screamed so loud at the end of that. It was just fucking chaos.

Cat Zingano 20:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:11 That was... She's done, she's had two fights that ended like that. With, like, one second to go she finishes the fight.

Cat Zingano 20:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:18 She's a tough girl.

Cat Zingano 20:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:19 Um, so the, anyway, MMA math is ridiculous. Doesn't work.

Cat Zingano 20:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:23 Um, and you might be the best example of how it doesn't work. But, so you go to this, the, the Mayo Clinic puts you on antidepressants.

Cat Zingano 20:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:31 Because-

Cat Zingano 20:32 Because-

Joe Rogan 20:32 ... you just feel like shit.

Cat Zingano 20:33 I feel like shit, and because, like, uh, of the, the different endocrine problems that I had, right? So I can't have, um, any of the medications that'll help that, so I have to be more conservative with it. And one way they thought to do it is 'cause my cortisol levels were really high they're talking about, um... And I mean, granted, I have a lot of stress, especially like-

Joe Rogan 20:52 Right.

Cat Zingano 20:52 ... you know? Life hasn't been easy these past, like-

Joe Rogan 20:54 Single mom, your husband passes away.

Cat Zingano 20:56 Yep.

Joe Rogan 20:56 You're in the toughest, probably the toughest sport on the planet Earth.

Cat Zingano 20:59 Trying to be the best at it too.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Yeah. Yeah.

Cat Zingano 21:01 So-

Joe Rogan 21:01 And you're elite. You're in the top 10, so you're, you're in this weird position where you, you never know when you're gonna fight or who you're gonna fight. There's a constant amount of stress. And it's not like you're making millions of dollars doing it either.

Cat Zingano 21:11 No. Well, and it's expediting healing for me, and, and I also have a kid going through what I'm going through.

Joe Rogan 21:17 Right.

Cat Zingano 21:17 So it's not like I get to, like, split and cut corners and just-

Joe Rogan 21:20 Right.

Cat Zingano 21:20 You know? It's like there's maintenance to be done at all times with that. So I go there. They tell me, "You know, we could probably lower your cortisol levels if we can loder- lower your stress levels, so we'll try antidepressants."

Joe Rogan 21:31 And what did that make you feel like when they-

Cat Zingano 21:33 Flat-

Joe Rogan 21:33 Flat?

Cat Zingano 21:33 ... as fuck. And, like, I didn't... Can my, can mi- can I say "fuck" on this? 'Cause I said it-

Joe Rogan 21:37 We already did, yeah.

Cat Zingano 21:37 Okay.

Joe Rogan 21:38 We s- you can say anything.

Cat Zingano 21:38 I know. I just didn't know if I have a quota.

Joe Rogan 21:40 No, no, no, no, no.

Cat Zingano 21:40 Like-

Joe Rogan 21:40 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 21:41 ... befo- before I'm, like, a bad person.

Joe Rogan 21:42 We could go light-

Cat Zingano 21:42 Like, do I get added to, like, a-

Joe Rogan 21:44 ... before you go light.

Cat Zingano 21:44 Do I get added to a certain list?

Joe Rogan 21:45 No. There's zero restrictions. You can say whatever you want on this show.

Cat Zingano 21:48 All right. All right. Done.

Joe Rogan 21:49 Okay.

Cat Zingano 21:51 Um, that I've sat in on and, you know, they've had their own issues with, uh, mental health or PTSD or, um, uh, their, like, autism, different things, like family members of theirs or whatever that I've sat in on and-

Joe Rogan 21:59 ... like all that training camp getting ready for Juliana, I'm just like, I'm like, "Okay, I'll, it'll, it'll take off in the fight," like, "I'll feel good in the fight." Like, when they say "go at it"- So, like, no adrenaline, no-

Cat Zingano 22:09 No ups, no downs.

Joe Rogan 22:11 Oof.

Cat Zingano 22:11 No, no pissed off, like, wanna kill you, no nothing. You know? And i-

Joe Rogan 22:16 So not scared, but not happy?

Cat Zingano 22:18 No. And I was like, "Why am I not nervous the way that I get nervous?" Like, like, like, I was okay. Which e- usually, like, especially two weeks out, I have this, like, flush of emotions, you know, where I'm, like, fetal position in the corner-

Joe Rogan 22:31 Right.

Cat Zingano 22:31 ... like, "What the fuck?"

Joe Rogan 22:33 All right.

Cat Zingano 22:33 And then once it's over all the-... like, I could hear Juliana's coaches and it was breaking my heart that they were coaching against me, because they were my Colorado gym and she went and trained with them. And I know she had trained with them previously, so, I mean, before she had taken the fight, but to me it was, like, f- fucked up to hear, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:38 Right, right.

Cat Zingano 24:38 And it hurt me in a way, like, it's ... I wish I could explain it better, but it was like, I heard them and I just wanted to go home. You know, I look at the clock and I'm like, "Can this just be over? I don't wanna go back to Colorado. I wanna move." Like, and I, I, I literally on this side of the cage I had my past in Colorado. I had these coaches, I had the drama with that, with that gym, like, how everything went, and, and then on this side it was, like, all new problems. Like, San Diego, Eric and them were good. Like, there was a lot of training partners. There was Suny, it was similar to Colorado, different-

Joe Rogan 25:11 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 25:11 ... but, uh, i- in the right ways, you know? And it was like-

Joe Rogan 25:13 So the Juliana-

Cat Zingano 25:13 ... I just wanted out.

Joe Rogan 25:13 ... fight, you were in San Diego training for that fight or no?

Cat Zingano 25:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:17 You did, yeah.

Cat Zingano 25:17 I ca- ... I just flew out for it, for, for the training camp.

Joe Rogan 25:20 And while you flew out there you were still taking the antidepressants?

Cat Zingano 25:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:24 And did, uh, did that fight convince you to stop taking them?

Cat Zingano 25:27 Yeah. So after that fight I went to, uh, what did I do? I think I went to the ... I was at the PI. I was d- working with Novinsky and people on, like, what to do about that. I even talked-

Joe Rogan 25:38 UFC-

Cat Zingano 25:38 ... to Gordon.

Joe Rogan 25:39 ... Performance Institute.

Cat Zingano 25:39 Dr. Gordon.

Joe Rogan 25:40 Mm-hmm, Mark Gordon.

Cat Zingano 25:41 Yeah, to, um, help me with all of that too, 'cause he thought there was a more conservative way to help me with those issues as well.

Joe Rogan 25:48 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 25:48 And so I, um, you know, I was talking with him. I had him talk to them. Uh, they were all trying to figure out a way, but still there's, like ... there's no ways to even just naturally bring you up. Um-

Joe Rogan 25:57 Did you think about retiring?

Cat Zingano 25:58 Yeah. And that, that's the thing is the center was really the place that was, is, like, okay, I'm gonna go here. I've tried everything else. I'm gonna go here and if they can't fix me, then, then I'm, I'm gonna have to be done.

Joe Rogan 26:11 How crazy is that, man? How fucking hard does Amanda Nunes hit?

Cat Zingano 26:15 It, it's nuts. She does hit, like, she ... I, I don't wanna say she hits like a dude, 'cause that's kinda weird.

Joe Rogan 26:19 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 26:19 You know?

Joe Rogan 26:20 She hits like a dude, I'll say.

Cat Zingano 26:21 But, but ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:21 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 26:22 But, um-

Joe Rogan 26:23 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 26:24 ... yeah, it's, uh-

Joe Rogan 26:25 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 26:25 I remember being surprised. I remember, like, having this open guard on the ground and kinda like, "Come here." You know? Like-

Joe Rogan 26:31 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 26:31 "I dare you." And then she hit and I was like, "Oh. Oh." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:34 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 26:35 "Oh, you have those." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:38 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 26:38 The fuck? (laughs) And that-

Joe Rogan 26:39 Yeah, you could see the look on people's face when she hits, and, like, you saw it with Rhonda, like, right away.

Cat Zingano 26:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:44 She-

Cat Zingano 26:44 There's a part in that fight, 'cause I, I watched our fight after.

Joe Rogan 26:47 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 26:48 And, like, you, uh ... she hit me and it, like, did so- ... I think it's right when ... it had to be when I hurt my head, 'cause it, like, dropped my arm and it dropped my neck, and I just remember, like, seeing, like, the little tweety- tweety birds and I was pumped because I was like, "That's where the cartoons get it from."

Joe Rogan 27:04 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 27:04 It's 'cause somebody explained that shit. That's exactly where they got it. It's like, "Woo."

Joe Rogan 27:08 Wow.

Cat Zingano 27:08 And, uh, and my arm, like, I couldn't get my arm back up. And I remember-

Joe Rogan 27:12 So your neck got tweaked.

Cat Zingano 27:13 ... listening to you, and you're like, "Cub's not intelligently defending herself." I'm like, "Listen, Joe." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:20 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 27:20 "That fucker won't work." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:22 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 27:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:23 Well-

Cat Zingano 27:23 You know, and then she screwed up because she grabbed my knee. And my knee-

Joe Rogan 27:27 Oh.

Cat Zingano 27:27 ... was the one that was, like, the catalyst to all my problems over the last couple years and it was just like, "Don't fucking touch that." And after that it was just like, I just-

Joe Rogan 27:35 She got angry when she grabbed your knee?

Cat Zingano 27:36 Yes.

Joe Rogan 27:37 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 27:37 It was the wrong knee, but I knew what she was trying to do.

Joe Rogan 27:39 Right, right, right.

Cat Zingano 27:39 You know what I mean? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:40 Yeah. Yep.

Cat Zingano 27:42 S- and then it ... and then on top of that, it was like, it was just ... I don't know, the rest of it was just, like, punishing her. She was kinda, like, sassy before the fight anyways, like, in awkward ways, like, not even, like, cool, hype-y ways. Like, just staring at me really weird in a room where it was just, like, me and Tim Kennedy sitting there eating, like, watermelon and stuff after weigh-ins and I look over and she's just like ... Like, staring at me all weird.

Joe Rogan 28:04 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 28:04 I was like, "Damn." Tim's like, "Dude." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:07 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 28:07 I'm like, "I know. What do we do?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:09 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 28:09 I'm like, "I can throw a, a plate of watermelon at her. I can throw a table. I don't know." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:14 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 28:14 "I don't know which one we're doing here."

Joe Rogan 28:15 Right.

Cat Zingano 28:16 Mm.

Joe Rogan 28:17 Wow. And, uh, when you stopped her, we've played the recording of you screaming, like, maybe 10 times on this podcast. 'Cause to this day that is one of the rawest moments I've ever seen inside the octagon. Like, when you, when you jump ... like, when they stopped that fight and you screamed, it was fucking bone-chilling. It was r- it's so ... I mean, I'm sure you've heard it, but that ... Here it is right here. Play it, Jamie. Ah! Ah! Dude. That's, like, from your genes. That's, like ... that's some cellular level shit.

Cat Zingano 29:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:01 That's intense.

Cat Zingano 29:02 It's relief. It's like I didn't ... like, like, we lived, you know? Like, we lived. They didn't.

Joe Rogan 29:09 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 29:10 Like, we, we get to eat. They don't. And you know, it's, it's, it's, it's relief. It's ooph. Um-

Joe Rogan 29:16 It's primal.

Cat Zingano 29:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:18 Yeah, I mean, you were ... like you said, you lived, because that was ... I mean, look, it's just a fight. There is a referee. You're gonna be saved. But one of the things that Georges St-Pierre said last week when he was on the podcast, he said, "The mentality that you go in there, the way you fight, you are a warrior."

Cat Zingano 29:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:35 Like, you, you know that you're going to be rescued, but you are fighting for your life. And when you're fighting a fucking killer like Amanda and you get lit up like you did and survive that first round, then go back and stop her, that's where that comes from. I mean, that was just fucking intense.

Cat Zingano 29:52 Well, it's the, it's the practicality to me, right? Like, yes, exactly, we have a referee. We have cage walls. We have whatever, you know, fans that's entertaining people, but, like, I need to know. I need to know that, like, w- that be in nature, you know? That be doing whatever, that be self-defense, that be, uh, f- fuck, us fighting over a territory or food or, or whatever. Like, I need to know what would happen. Like, if we had ... like, that's why I want these finishes. We only get 15 minutes to be able to tell ourselves what woulda happened in that situation, you know? And, and when it goes to a decision, I'm pissed, 'cause I don't know, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:27 Right.

Cat Zingano 30:28 Like, you don't know, especially these three-round fights where I'm waking up, like, these last couple fights, like, late in the fight, I'm, I'm pissed 'cause I'm like, "I don't know." If that woulda been another 30 minutes or another two hours that we're scrapping in the woods, like, who gets the bone? You know?

Joe Rogan 30:42 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 30:42 I wanna know. And, and so that's just ... it's, it's crazy, and it's your practicality and it's your survival, and this is the way I get to know myself.

Joe Rogan 30:50 Dude, that's deep.

Cat Zingano 30:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:52 Who gets the bone?

Cat Zingano 30:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:54 Whoo, damn. (slaps table) The way you just put it, and I don't think I've ever heard anybody put it that way. You need to know. Yeah. That's intense. But I get it. I get it. That's where that scream comes from.

Cat Zingano 31:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:11 You got the bone. (laughs)

Cat Zingano 31:13 (laughs) It's my bone. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:16 So you go down to San Diego. What was your short list? You, you, before, by the way, I'm a huge fan of, uh, Eric. Uh, Alliance is just one of the best camps, for sure. And I think Eric Del Fierro's, like, probably one of the most underrated, and because he doesn't toot his own horn.

Cat Zingano 31:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:31 He's, like, in the shadows.

Cat Zingano 31:33 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 31:33 Laid back, doesn't want any attention. Just not trying to get any attention. Like, he's the last guy to, like, request attention, you know, but super, super knowledgeable, and one of the best guys in a corner too.

Cat Zingano 31:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:45 Like, his advice is always excellent. Like, uh, uh, never, never heard him say the wrong thing in a corner. He's always, like, on point. But what was your short list of places to go to, besides Alliance?

Cat Zingano 31:57 Um, I went to-

Joe Rogan 32:00 Did you go to New Mexico?

Cat Zingano 32:01 Uh, yes, but I feel like I'm not trying to walk in on Holly and, like-

Joe Rogan 32:05 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 32:06 ... make shit weird.

Joe Rogan 32:06 Right.

Cat Zingano 32:06 And we're gonna fight each other at some point, I know, and that just, you know, I, I don't wanna be that guy.

Joe Rogan 32:12 Mm-hmm. Right, right.

Cat Zingano 32:13 You know? Uh, although I know I'm welcome, and I know that everyone there has always been nice. I've gone and trained there before, and it's been good. Um, but it's just not a cool move, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:22 Right.

Cat Zingano 32:22 Um, I went down to, um, Arizona, um, with Crouch.

Joe Rogan 32:26 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 32:27 Loved it there.

Joe Rogan 32:27 Another great guy.

Cat Zingano 32:29 Yeah, great.

Joe Rogan 32:29 Same. I feel the same way about him.

Cat Zingano 32:31 Mm-hmm. Same, yeah. Very, very, very humble, very good.

Joe Rogan 32:34 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 32:34 You know, um-

Joe Rogan 32:35 Super knowledgeable too.

Cat Zingano 32:36 Uh-huh. Um, up in LA, LA was cool too, but it was a lot of that driving around in the traffic and congestion. And I couldn't sacrifice the, like, the, um, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was-

Joe Rogan 32:48 So many people here.

Cat Zingano 32:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:49 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 32:49 And, and coming from Colorado-

Joe Rogan 32:51 (clicks tongue)

Cat Zingano 32:52 ... and coming from, like, chill, outdoorsy-

Joe Rogan 32:53 Yep.

Cat Zingano 32:53 ... you can drive 20 minutes and be somewhere no one's ever stood before-

Joe Rogan 32:57 Yep.

Cat Zingano 32:57 ... to, like, stuck in traffic, breathing air you don't wanna breathe. Like, like, everyone's a little pissed off, but no one really knows why.

Joe Rogan 33:04 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 33:04 Like, uh, it, it's-

Joe Rogan 33:05 There's too many people.

Cat Zingano 33:06 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 33:06 Jamie's right. Jamie's been saying this forever.

Cat Zingano 33:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:09 We're gonna leave. We're gonna leave together.

Cat Zingano 33:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:10 We gotta leave. I'm thinking of bailing.

Cat Zingano 33:13 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 33:14 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 33:14 Where, where would you go?

Joe Rogan 33:15 Maybe Colorado.

Cat Zingano 33:16 It's so dope.

Joe Rogan 33:17 It's pretty dope.

Cat Zingano 33:17 So good there.

Joe Rogan 33:18 Damn.

Cat Zingano 33:19 So good.

Joe Rogan 33:19 Maybe.

Cat Zingano 33:19 Food culture could be better there. I wish we could combine that food culture of, of LA.

Joe Rogan 33:23 Food culture. What kinda food culture? What are you into?

Cat Zingano 33:25 I mean, I, I mean, I'm, I'm in the health food. I'm into, like, ethnic food. I like every-

Joe Rogan 33:30 Oh.

Cat Zingano 33:30 I like, I like trying new stuff all the time. I'm not very, like, food chain-y, you know?

Joe Rogan 33:35 I'm into fire and meat.

Cat Zingano 33:36 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 33:37 That's what I like.

Cat Zingano 33:37 Are you, are you... I know. It's so good.

Joe Rogan 33:39 That's what I like.

Cat Zingano 33:40 So good.

Joe Rogan 33:40 Meat over fire.

Cat Zingano 33:41 Yep.

Joe Rogan 33:42 That's what I've decided.

Cat Zingano 33:43 And vegetables.

Joe Rogan 33:43 I've tried all kinds of different shit. I always go for the steak.

Cat Zingano 33:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:46 It's like, it's, uh, it's... Vegetables are great. I love vegetables.

Cat Zingano 33:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:50 But you can get them anywhere.

Cat Zingano 33:51 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 33:52 You can get them in Colorado. (laughs)

Cat Zingano 33:54 (laughs) Not really. I mean, it's not exactly the produce capital of the world up there.

Joe Rogan 33:57 No, but you can get them.

Cat Zingano 33:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:58 Yeah. It's not the best. Yeah.

Cat Zingano 34:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:00 Just get a greenhouse, grow some tomatoes.

Cat Zingano 34:03 (laughs) On, in my spare time. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:04 Yeah. So, um, did you try Montreal? Did you think about Five Star or Tristar, rather?

Cat Zingano 34:09 I, I did not. Well, I thought about it, but, um, I don't... I didn't get up to Canadia. I, I, I-

Joe Rogan 34:15 Canadia. (laughs)

Cat Zingano 34:16 Yeah. I went to Thailand.

Joe Rogan 34:17 Did you?

Cat Zingano 34:17 I went to Mexico. I went to...

Joe Rogan 34:20 You thinking about going to Thailand, like, moving there?

Cat Zingano 34:21 Yeah. Oh, I love... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:23 Really?

Cat Zingano 34:24 I mean, when I'm there, especially, it's, like, such... It's, it's a Buddhist culture.

Joe Rogan 34:27 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 34:27 People are so happy. I mean, uh, you have your shit there, just like you have it everywhere else. But at the same time, like, like, the Muay Thai training is good. I know the places I would go to jujitsu, like the Fairtex in, uh, Pattaya is, is coming around and, and pretty solid. Like, I even considered that, um, for this camp, just to kinda, like, make some changes. And, 'cause I really want to have that, uh, influence and that, like, exposure to the authentic Muay Thai again. Like, when I looked back at my most successful and most happy times, after these three fights, I've lost three in a row. Like, that doesn't happen. I'm not saying... You know, I'm like, "No, I'm better than this."

Joe Rogan 35:06 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 35:06 Like, something's up. And I know there's a lot that I need to work on. I mean, like, uh, my, um, my life in general, and, and I'm doing it, and I'm happy to be doing it, and I'm happy to be getting the lessons even if this is how I have to get them, like, fuck it. At least I know.

Joe Rogan 35:18 Right.

Cat Zingano 35:18 So, um, I tried to look back and analyze. Like, what was I doing when I was my favorite fighter, when I was feeling the best? And it was, like, very traditional, thick Muay Thai and very traditional, thick jujitsu. So that, this camp has been something that I'm gonna also be outsourcing, because I want to be in, like, that element. So I'm doing my, I'm doing actual Muay Thai with John X, he's a, uh, Jeremy Steven's Muay Thai coach, I think, too.

Joe Rogan 35:46 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 35:46 And then my, um, jujitsu with Atos. And then s- 'cause before it was like, I would do these separate disciplines, put them together in drills and sparring, and then go mangle people. And then, like, have fun with it, 'cause it, it, it's like these little goals I'd set, like, this little bucket list I would take into a fight with me-

Joe Rogan 36:02 Right.

Cat Zingano 36:02 ... and try to pull those things off. And then, and then go learn new stuff, and then go try to do that. That's why I was constantly evolving every fight. Even the fight with Amanda when I, like, snapped her down, and I had her by her head, and everyone's screaming, "Knees! Knees!" I'm like, "Uh, hold my beer." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:16 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 36:16 And that's when I go in and throw her with the-

Joe Rogan 36:18 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 36:18 ... you know, the, what they call it, a DDT? Uh, it wasn't. It was a freestyle, like, front headlock suplex. But it was like, like, I want, I want every fight to be different and fun. Like, know what I have, but see what else I got.

Joe Rogan 36:32 Right.

Cat Zingano 36:32 Kind of thing. And, and that, that... I don't even get to play that right now, because I'm fucking up. And I'm, I'm not doing what I want in these fights, so I decided to take steps backwards and start-

Joe Rogan 36:41 How do you feel in training?

Cat Zingano 36:43 In training? (sighs) I, I, I don't know. It, it, it's... Something's, something's been missing, and I'm partially wondering if it's that. You know? So, like, every fight I'm looking to, to make improvements and change. Like, I'm not gonna ever sit here and say I know everything in that. It's just... I have no excuses. Kaitlin found a way to beat me. You know what I mean? Juliana found a way to beat me. I kinda beat myself in that one too, 'cause I let my head-... get into me, you know, and-

Joe Rogan 37:08 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 37:09 ... that sucked. And again, another thing for me to (clears throat) have put time in and I'm happy I did, but, I mean, that got me to move to San Diego. So I mean-

Joe Rogan 37:17 Right.

Cat Zingano 37:17 ... I'm, I'm happy for that message. It cost me a lot of money to get that message, but I'll take it, you know.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Right.

Cat Zingano 37:22 Um, and Katlyn, yeah, she found a way to beat me, and, and to have been beaten by jujitsu, when I feel very accomplished in jujitsu, that, like, stung differently. You know?

Joe Rogan 37:30 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 37:30 It stung way differently than just someone else getting their hand raised. (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 37:34 Do you feel when you're in training that you're the same as you were before when you were at your best?

Cat Zingano 37:39 Um, when I was at my best? No, but it's something that I'm working on. Like I have ... I know I have, like, the hang-ups that I have, I know there's a ton of mental stuff. You know, one, um, just how life happened and, and constantly having ... Like, I had this expedited adaptation to training. I had to get new coaches, I had to f- find new gyms.

Joe Rogan 37:59 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 37:59 I had to do all of this while in grief and being under ... Like, like, this isn't the most forgiving crowd, you know? (laughs) Like, when, when you're having a shit day, definitely not-

Joe Rogan 38:09 Oh, they're the worst.

Cat Zingano 38:10 A- it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 38:11 It's crazy because it's such a-

Cat Zingano 38:13 And-

Joe Rogan 38:13 ... uh, like, you're so exposed and you're so vulnerable as a fighter, and the fans might be the meanest. (laughs)

Cat Zingano 38:19 Well, and ... Yes, they're so mean. And, but, I, I feel like I have the best fans too. Like, I have the ones, like, they're-

Joe Rogan 38:26 The ones that really love you.

Cat Zingano 38:27 ... they're so ride or die and, like, I'm so proud of them. But, um, like, I didn't even start doing my own social media. (clears throat) My, my husband did my social media. And so, all of a sudden I get thrown into social media (clears throat) and how social media works, when I'm at my most, like, low, vulnerable-

Joe Rogan 38:44 And you're reading all that shit?

Cat Zingano 38:45 I didn't know you're not supposed to.

Joe Rogan 38:46 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 38:47 I'm looking at it like investments, right? Like, I'm like, "Oh, here's a stock. I'm gonna put money into this stock and let's just see h- how it turned out." And then-

Joe Rogan 38:54 Oh, that's funny.

Cat Zingano 38:54 ... I was like, "Oh." And I think-

Joe Rogan 38:56 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 38:56 ... the first person that ever told me not to do that was Callen, like later. He's like, "Never read the co-" What?

Joe Rogan 39:01 Brian Callen?

Cat Zingano 39:02 What are you doing?

Joe Rogan 39:02 Yeah, Brian Callen doesn't read shit.

Cat Zingano 39:04 He's like, "Don't read the comments."

Joe Rogan 39:05 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 39:05 But I'm like, "Well, how will I know how I did?" He's like, "Just fucking no in here." ...

Joe Rogan 39:09 Yeah. You'll know from your peers.

Cat Zingano 39:10 (laughs) Right?

Joe Rogan 39:11 You'll ... You're n- You'll know from your coaches and you'll know. You'll know.

Cat Zingano 39:14 Well, it's ... Uh, I mean, it sucks when you know, like, six hours later you wrote some shit that people are taking wrong.

Joe Rogan 39:19 Right.

Cat Zingano 39:19 Or, I mean, it's like an opportunist situation. They, like, wait for you to fuck up and they're like, "Oh, right there, right there." I'm like, "You know I didn't mean to say that." Or, "You know that's not how I meant it," or whatever, but-

Joe Rogan 39:29 It's hard because everybody's text looks the same.

Cat Zingano 39:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:32 Right? The text that you would get from a Holly Holm or someone you respect, versus the text that you get from some fat slob sitting there eating Cheetos, farting into their hands.

Cat Zingano 39:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:43 Same person. Like, it looks the same as ... on text.

Cat Zingano 39:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:47 But you ... It's just, you're gonna get, like, some l- people that just wanna hurt your feelings-

Narrator 39:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:53 ... because they suck and their life is terrible.

Cat Zingano 39:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:55 Like, I've never met a hater that's doing great. Like, there's no, no haters that are like, "Man, my fucking life is awesome. But you know what I like doing? I like going on YouTube and I just go make comments that are just trying to hurt someone's feelings. I just try to cut 'em to the bone."

Cat Zingano 40:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:09 "Say fucked up shit about dead relatives-"

Cat Zingano 40:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:11 "... and what they did wrong." Like, those people are all just losers, just l- fucking losers, you know?

Cat Zingano 40:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:17 I mean, there's just no way around it. That's all they are.

Cat Zingano 40:20 It's ... It was so foreign, because, I mean, in wrestling, like, I did wrestling, I did soccer, volleyball, swimming, like, y- I never ever heard anyone be discouraging. Like, no one ever came to me and was like, "Fuck you, you suck."

Joe Rogan 40:32 Yeah, it's, you don't-

Cat Zingano 40:33 (laughs) And now it's like, "Whoa."

Joe Rogan 40:34 'Cause you wouldn't, you wouldn't get that-

Cat Zingano 40:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:35 ... from someone who was a fan or someone ... Even if someone's from an opposing team and like, "She ain't shit," this ... They're just saying that because they wanna beat you.

Cat Zingano 40:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:43 You know? It's like ... But the, the haters that you're dealing with online, they're just ... There's a lot ... Look, life is fucking complicated. It's hard to get right. And as you're seeing with your very difficult career, there's, there's a lot of, like, decisions to be made. There's ... You, you can fuck it up, you gotta build back up again, try right. And you're a smart person who's strong and successful. For losers, life is impossible. It's impossible. And so they go through life just angry and depressed and sad and failing at everything they do, but they still have a phone or they still have a laptop and they're like, "You fucking cunt."

Cat Zingano 41:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:22 "You fucking loser." And that's what you're getting. That's what you're getting. What ... You're getting all that anger, you don't even know this person, why are they angry at you?

Cat Zingano 41:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:29 Because they're angry at life, 'cause life has fucked them in the ass. That's why they're angry. They're angry at life because they got dealt a shit existence, right? They have bad genetics, they have a bad family, they have a bad job, they live in a bad neighborhood, they have bad people around them, they feel bad. Everything is wrong, and ... But they still get to talk. They still get to talk shit and they still get to type things, type mean things out.

Cat Zingano 41:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:55 That's, that's why you can't read comments. 'Cause it's fucking hard. The only thing you could do is inspire with your work, with y- what you do, and you do that already.

Cat Zingano 42:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:04 You know? And you're a human being, you're gonna make mistakes and you're gonna do things right and you're gonna do things wrong, and you're gonna have these epic moments and you're gonna have these failures, 'cause that's just a part of, like, doing things that are complicated.

Narrator 42:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:14 But you can't read the comments. You definitely can't take them to heart.

Cat Zingano 42:18 Noted. Yes.

Joe Rogan 42:20 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 42:20 Noted.

Joe Rogan 42:20 (laughs)

Narrator 42:20 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 42:21 It got me good a couple of times. Like, it'll fuck up your day.

Joe Rogan 42:23 It did. Yeah. It can fuck up your day.

Cat Zingano 42:25 I'm like, "Oh!" Oh.

Joe Rogan 42:26 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 42:27 Yeah.

Narrator 42:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:27 You can't, can't let that happen.

Cat Zingano 42:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:28 It's, it's sad because those people that are doing that, they're in pain. That's the o- the only reason why they would lash out at you like that. They go, "No, I'm just telling the truth. You just can't handle the truth."

Cat Zingano 42:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:38 Even if it was the truth, the way in which people say it, and the reason why they're saying it, is because they wanna hurt your feelings.

Cat Zingano 42:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:47 They're not being kind. You know, there's a lot of that going on today. I mean, even in, even in the media, the way people tell stories and write stories and write articles about people, it's like they're not ... Th- th- this is ... It's not just that they're trying to tell the facts and explain what's happening. They're trying to cut people down and hurt people.

Cat Zingano 43:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:06 And it's ... This is ... I m- and I wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that our fucking president does that, because it seems more prevalent now than ever before. It seems like there's like a trend and I think a lot of, like-... one of the things about the president, whoever the president is, is there's some people that are not gonna listen to anything he says. But there's a certain amount of people that are gonna take his actions and use it as almost like a barometer-

Cat Zingano 43:31 An example, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:31 ... yeah, an example of how- how they should behave and how this country behaves. It's like he- he's the top dog and when the top dog is insulting people all the time and saying shitty things all the time.

Cat Zingano 43:42 And still can be successful.

Joe Rogan 43:43 Yeah. It's-

Cat Zingano 43:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:44 It lets people know there's, you wanna get ahead-

Cat Zingano 43:46 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 43:46 ... you wanna get ahead? You gotta do like him.

Cat Zingano 43:47 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 43:47 And then they, they go out and act like assholes too.

Cat Zingano 43:50 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:51 Yeah. It's a bummer. So anyway, you go down to San Diego and what, what are they doing for you that gets you off of the antidepressants and gets you feeling better?

Cat Zingano 44:01 So, uh, it's again, like, you get in there and I, I mean it's, it's scary to go. Again, like I said, there's- there's all these different people in there. Um, the man found the, the research on it by, um, treating his own autistic kid and, and you can see the before and after videos of this kid and it's like, damn. Okay. And then, um, I brought my son in too 'cause he has ADHD and he's off his medication now as well. So, um, going in there, uh, they do a EEG first and like they can tell which parts of your brain are- are firing at what hurts and seeing, um, the congruencies and like how all of that is happening or not happening. And, um, then they kind of prescribe these- these different, th- these machines like on your, on your brain that make, uh, these like electric impulses, but they're magnetic to, um, kind of speed up or slow down the different parts of your brain. So if the front of your brain is moving slower than the back of your brain, or those, or- or whatever. So, um, they're noticing obviously, uh, patterns with fighters, hockey players, football players, like- like people that are leading with their heads basically, um, having like, uh, and then with the veterans there's like emotional, um, things too where I mean they ever-

Joe Rogan 45:14 Outbursts. Yeah.

Cat Zingano 45:15 And yeah, and then like, I mean having to compartmentalize as well. Like some of the shit they see should be upsetting, you know. So, and- and, you know, but there's- there's different ways that we can train our brain to- to drop things like that. And then PTSD is when it's involuntary and it, and it all comes in and- and that. So, you know, I- I've been diagnosed with PTSD.

Joe Rogan 45:37 (clears throat)

Cat Zingano 45:37 I had walked in there with medication because of being depressed, uh, and the anxiety and- and all of that. Like, my symptoms were terrible and I know they're a combination of things, but even like my startle reflex, like, you know, I could hear someone come walking around the corner, like clap, clap, clap, hear their shoes, but the second I'd see them it would, it would stop my heart for a second.

Joe Rogan 45:58 Hmm.

Cat Zingano 45:58 And that's like shit on your adrenal glands, you know? And- and, um, all this stuff was, you know, and anxiety that, um, I don't know. It was- it was hard to fall asleep at night. Uh, you know, my memory was crap and- and this is all, you know, different stuff happening in all these other fighters that I know as well.

Joe Rogan 46:17 Hmm.

Cat Zingano 46:17 But I mean, uh, like I said, I've been trying things so much, so much over the past few years that I get excited about and either it works or it doesn't. And, um, (clears throat) the- the point is, is- is now I found this and I feel better from this, but I- I was so excited about all these other things. Like, I can't just start telling everybody of the new thing that I found because I've said that and been excited about like everything else but this one, this one...

Joe Rogan 46:43 What other things you've been excited about?

Cat Zingano 46:44 Um, like the ecoscope. It's like-

Joe Rogan 46:46 What's that?

Cat Zingano 46:47 ... uh, it's a, um, same thing. It's kind of like a TENS machine or a STEM machine, but like a-

Joe Rogan 46:52 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 46:52 ... super, super low frequency and that's badass too. Like, it- it- it helped on injuries, like, you know, if I rolled my ankle or hurt my toe, like you could bring the swelling down from this to- to normal essentially in like an hour and a half just working on it with this like TENS unit on it. And- and-

Joe Rogan 47:09 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 47:09 ... I mean, they- they originally used it for race horses and- and for, you know, super expensive million dollar horses. Like, the equipment they brought over was like $90 grand.

Joe Rogan 47:18 Hmm.

Cat Zingano 47:19 And like s- like these really specific like special metals that were put into these plates and, you know, they would do stuff like that, but that wasn't working on my head. It was working on injuries and it was working on, um, I wanna say it helped with like my, like digestive system maybe or my, um, uh, I don't remember. Some- some other things it was helping with too, but what, you know, I- I- I started doing that, um, or I was doing that when I walked into Mindset and started doing that treatment. (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 47:49 And so what do they do at Mindset?

Cat Zingano 47:51 So you sit in this chair, you know, and they ha- they put this prescription in this machine and the machine has kind of got like a, like a arm that (clears throat) goes on a specific part of your brain and you, you know, you close your eyes and it sends these- these magnetic pulses into your head. And I mean, y- you don't feel anything. It's almost like you can hear what it feels like, but I don't know how to describe it. It's- it's a sense. It's, there's a, it's sensual, but it's not, it's not exactly hearing and it's not exactly feeling.

Joe Rogan 48:21 Huh.

Cat Zingano 48:21 Um-

Joe Rogan 48:22 But you can tell something's happening?

Cat Zingano 48:23 Yeah. And I mean, you, you leave the place after your treatment, like I go, I would go twice a day. It's 45 minutes away both ways. So I, I'm driving a lot every day to go to do this 'cause I wanna give it a fair shot. (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 48:37 You do, you do it every day?

Cat Zingano 48:39 I do every day.

Joe Rogan 48:39 Wow.

Cat Zingano 48:40 I haven't gone these past couple weeks 'cause, uh, stuff with my kids, uh, schedule, school's almost out and then wanting to try out different things, different coaches, uh, as far as these new disciplines go. So I haven't been there as much, but, um, yeah, for the last (sighs) it was August I believe is- is when I was like really, really getting into it and going twice a day, 45 minutes each way, twice a day.

Joe Rogan 49:04 Twice a day?

Cat Zingano 49:05 (clears throat) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:05 So you would, you would spend 45 minutes-

Cat Zingano 49:08 One way.

Joe Rogan 49:09 ... one way, go back-

Cat Zingano 49:10 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 49:10 ... and then go back again.

Cat Zingano 49:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:12 And then go back.

Cat Zingano 49:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:13 Why don't you just fucking move closer to where the place is?

Cat Zingano 49:15 Because Alliance was down there.

Joe Rogan 49:17 Oh, damn. Jesus.

Cat Zingano 49:17 And so I would, I would drop my kid off at school. I would run and then I would go there. I would do my treatment. I'd go back to practice down in southern San Diego. Then I'd get my son and then we'd go up there for the afternoon session and then I'd come back down and- and we'd go to his sports and then I'd have my second two a day.

Joe Rogan 49:35 Jesus.

Cat Zingano 49:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:37 That does not leave a lot of free time for Cat Zingano.

Cat Zingano 49:40 Oh, hell no.

Joe Rogan 49:41 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 49:41 Oh, hell no. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:43 Just that alone can be stressful-

Cat Zingano 49:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:44 ... and all that fucking driving.

Cat Zingano 49:45 But I was seeing the results.

Joe Rogan 49:46 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 49:46 That was the crazy thing-

Joe Rogan 49:47 So tell me what happened.

Cat Zingano 49:47 ... is I was feeling better. Well-

Joe Rogan 49:49 How did ... What did the results feel like?

Cat Zingano 49:51 W- when I just walked in, like w- like ... God, like, I couldn't sleep. I had just, uh, anxiety. Like, I had that, that, um, startle effect going, like, the, um, my memory was shit. And these are all things that I went to the UFCPI to talk to them about-

Joe Rogan 50:07 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 50:07 ... because I'm like, "I don't know what to do."

Joe Rogan 50:09 Right.

Cat Zingano 50:09 Like, "I, I want to fight." They offered me to fight Cris Cyborg at 145 (clears throat) -

Joe Rogan 50:15 That's more of the same.

Cat Zingano 50:16 And I was like ... Yeah, and I was like, "Well," like, "hell yeah, let's take that, but," like, "can you guys at least help me get this shit figured out first, please?" You know, and they're like, "Sure." Um, so Duncan French, he's at the-

Joe Rogan 50:27 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 50:27 ... the ... He's at ... He's ... So he went to college in t- and was at ... Or no, he was at Notre Dame using this treatment with the doctor, um, Kevin Murphy that runs the Mindset. So, uh, he was like, "This guy is doing a lot of things with people as far as brain health." He's like, "Go see them when you get back to San Diego. It's kinda far from you, but, like, give it a shot, Cat." And I called the guy. I'm on the phone super frustrated, like, super, like, emotional. I'm like, "I'm, I'm at my wits' end. Like, I've tried everything I can think of, like holistic views, like chemical views, this." Like, everything. I mean, spending money out of my pocket trying to figure this out, 'cause none of this is covered by the UFC, especially because it ... you know, not something I claimed in a fight. I mean, I fought Amanda, and if you don't claim that stuff within the 30 days, like, you're on your own. And of course my head hurt, of course I'm dizzy, of course lights are bright, of course I can't think right. I got in a fistfight, you know, and I, I wasn't doing good in it for a while, so I, I figured, you know. But then a month and a half, two months out when I wasn't better, it's like ...

Joe Rogan 51:30 So even though it clearly came-

Cat Zingano 51:32 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 51:32 ... from that fight, you still don't get covered?

Cat Zingano 51:34 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 51:35 What?

Cat Zingano 51:36 No. Well, and it's endocrine stuff too, you know. And it's like there's very ... there's, like, m-

Joe Rogan 51:41 How could they dispute that that's where it came from though? You go, "Hey, sit down. I want you to watch something," and just play that first round. Go, "What the fuck do you think happened?"

Cat Zingano 51:51 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 51:52 But I mean, if you play that video for them, if anybody in the insurance business was denying you coverage, saying it didn't happen d- while you were under the banner of the UFC, like, you're outta your fucking mind. Watch that video. What do you think is happening? Well, this fucking assassin is throwing bombs at your face. I mean, that's ... that is crazy that that's not covered.

Cat Zingano 52:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:15 That makes me sick.

Cat Zingano 52:16 Oh, it's frustrating, 'cause it ... by, by ... Like, literally you, you look at the papers, like, it cost me more to fight than-

Joe Rogan 52:23 Well-

Cat Zingano 52:23 ... than it ... than I make.

Joe Rogan 52:24 L- listen-

Cat Zingano 52:25 You know?

Joe Rogan 52:25 ... it might make sense if it was dealing with a broken hand or a torn ligament or something like that. It might make sense. It might. It does not make any fucking sense if you're talking about brain injuries.

Cat Zingano 52:35 But I mean-

Joe Rogan 52:35 'Cause anybody who understands how brain injuries work know that there's, there's a considerable amount of time after a fight where you still are suffering from symptoms, and you might decide 30 days later, 60 days later, 90 days later, you gotta do something about it.

Cat Zingano 52:49 Right. Well, I mean, now I know.

Joe Rogan 52:50 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 52:51 Now I, I come out of a fight and I'm like, "My pinky hurts, my elbow hurts, my hair hurts-"

Joe Rogan 52:55 Right. (laughs)

Cat Zingano 52:55 "... my eyebrow hurts." Like, "We're-"

Joe Rogan 52:57 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 52:57 "... we're gonna claim all of this." You know?

Joe Rogan 52:59 Right, right.

Cat Zingano 52:59 'Cause before I was just being tough, you know? "I'm fine. Fuck it."

Joe Rogan 53:01 Yeah, but that's what fighters do.

Cat Zingano 53:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:03 This is why it's so crazy.

Cat Zingano 53:04 And I didn't ... Like, I didn't get it and I didn't know. And then-

Joe Rogan 53:07 But they should know. If they're in the ... If they're in the business of insuring fighters, they should have a larger window where people can claim head injuries.

Cat Zingano 53:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:15 I mean, talking about-

Cat Zingano 53:16 That ... That's ... I mean, that, that ... It kinda goes together with, like, any kinda, uh, m- any kind of mental anything. Like-

Joe Rogan 53:22 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 53:23 ... m- any ... You talk about mental illness, you talk about head injuries, you talk about TBI, it all goes into that stigma of, like, "You can't see it, so it must not be real."

Joe Rogan 53:30 Right.

Cat Zingano 53:30 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 53:31 Right.

Cat Zingano 53:31 Or, or whatever. So it's like-

Joe Rogan 53:33 But that's the head injury business.

Cat Zingano 53:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:35 I mean, basically.

Cat Zingano 53:36 Yeah. The point is to f- make them drop-

Joe Rogan 53:39 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 53:39 ... and be done.

Joe Rogan 53:40 I mean, that's what everybody li- ... I mean, it's not, it's not the worst thing in the world to win with a body kick or an armbar, but the reality is, what people like is to see head injuries.

Cat Zingano 53:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:47 We're in the head injury business.

Cat Zingano 53:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:49 You know?

Cat Zingano 53:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:51 Yeah. So how long after you starting with this f- treatment do you start to see results?

Cat Zingano 53:58 So the first ... I, I would say the first thing I noticed was my motor skills in practice. So, you know, I would go, uh ...

Joe Rogan 54:07 So you think your motor skills were impaired-

Cat Zingano 54:08 No, I ... Well, I just feel-

Joe Rogan 54:10 ... before then?

Cat Zingano 54:10 ... like I had a block. Like I said, like, i- it's ... it was comical, and, I mean, you can even ask them at Alliance, and it, it was funny. It was funny, but not. To have ... Like, we're in class, you know, we're learning. I'm watching the coaches. Like, they do a drill and they explain it and it ... they look up, "All right, everybody ready? Ready, one, two, three, go," and we clap, and I have no fucking idea what we're doing. You know? Like, we walk off and I'm like ... Like, there was even a couple times where they ... like, they clap and they're like, "Cat, what are we doing?" And I'm like, "Um, three kick?" And they're like, "No, 20 push-ups." And I'm like, man, I'm not even ... (laughs) like, I'm not just a bad kid, like, talking-

Joe Rogan 54:51 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 54:51 ... and, like, not listening. Like, I'm in trouble because I'm-

Joe Rogan 54:53 Right.

Cat Zingano 54:54 ... I'm ... I don't hear you. Like, I don't-

Joe Rogan 54:55 Right.

Cat Zingano 54:55 I- I can, like, not lose eye contact the whole time, like, sit here and I'm, like, focused.

Joe Rogan 55:00 But it's not going in.

Cat Zingano 55:01 But, no, I'm not retaining it. Unless the ... Like, if ... It has to be the last thing that they do. Like, we can't talk about shit. (laughs) If, if, if it's the last thing I see, I can go do it. Or I could go do it. But if they're like, "All right," and then they explain some philosophy about it or, or do some movement or whatever, like, then I lose what we're doing. Like, my, my mind will just go right to something else. Like, I had a very hard time concentrating. And-You know, it's, it's crazy because when I got to this facility, you know, I didn't know... I didn't necessarily know what I was walking into, but they have you do this questionnaire. And, like, on this questionnaire is, like, all of these things. I'm like, "That's part of something." Like me not being able to focus, that's part of something. My sleep, that's part of something. This startle effect is part of something. Like me having these, like, completely, like, specific things that are all on this was like, "Damn, okay." Like I didn't even wanna see the EEG because I was, I was scared, you know? I was like-

Joe Rogan 55:54 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 55:55 ... "What if you can't fix me and now I know all the shit that's wrong with me?" Like that's-

Joe Rogan 55:58 Right.

Cat Zingano 55:58 ... that sucks. But then, you know, they show you different EEGs and they show you the... They take it every single week, and so you actually get to see it and you get to see the level that you were functioning at, especially the different parts of your brain. But then... And the thing is that's awesome about this is you get to keep the results. Like unless you go do exactly what you did and go fuck it up again, like you get to keep it. It's not like... This maintenance package, which is, you know, a problem for these pharmaceutical companies, there's, there's, there's not a whole lot of retention on it because once people get their brains functioning, as long as you're not sitting there hitting your head against a wall, like you get to keep feeling better. Like these, these veterans get to go back to, to combat or, or whatever it is their job is. Like we fighters get to go back. Football players get to go back. Like I, I sat in with the Chargers, uh, medical staff and talked about our stuff there as well. I, I, I don't even remember who else. There was people from all over the, the country coming and asking about this... you know, and, and needing-

Joe Rogan 56:58 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 56:59 ... to sit in and, and they're looking at these EEGs in particular.

Joe Rogan 57:02 So, what is it doing? Like how is it fixing you?

Cat Zingano 57:06 So one, um, I think it... You know, there's something with what goes on in your brain with, with the thyroid stuff, with the endocrine stuff is like getting your damage to your hypothalamus, right? And that's like... Uh, that, that kinda directs all of the information that goes to your thyroid. Your thyroid, you know, then sends out everything to your body and there, when there's like a disconnect there, um, you know, it just, it screws everything up. And, and then on top of it, like, now that we're cutting the same weight we've always had to cut but we don't get IVs and we... I mean, you, you cannot 100% rehydrate your brain within 45 or 48 hours. Like you can get your body decently hydrated, I believe, but your brain is just... It's its own thing, you know? And so now we don't have IVs, our, our hydraulic system in our brain is down, and now we're rattling it even more, like dehydrated. I mean, we're just gonna have, you know, bigger side effects to, to our brains being dehydrated with that. Now, um, the damage that comes to the hypothalamus, to the pituitary, to the, um, your thyroid, all of that that goes on there, like that... They're, they're saying that you can, you can get it firing back at a level that it was before it got hurt. Like as long as the cells are still alive in it, they can re-energize those cells. Now if you have like just a dead part of your brain, you know, they're not bringing it back to life, but they can, um, use these magnets to kind of fluff them back up, give them back their energy, their, their life and, and put in, uh... Put them in, back into a functional way that was something similar to you at your healthiest and, and make it m-... I mean, not more or less durable, just back.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Right.

Cat Zingano 58:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Now when you-

Cat Zingano 58:49 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 58:49 ... when you were saying motor skills, like what was wro-... 'Cause it's one of the things that they see in fighters that have taken too many shots. They start having... They analyze fighter's gates.

Cat Zingano 59:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:00 And one of the things that happens is your legs get closer together.

Cat Zingano 59:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:04 Um, your, your balance is off. Your, your steps are shorter. You don't have that sort of like dynamic-

Cat Zingano 59:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:10 ... fluid motion to your body and you're having a hard, m- a harder time with balance and just motor skills.

Cat Zingano 59:16 Yeah, totally. So all... How I felt before going into there was all I had was a gas pedal. I was like just will, you know? And just fuck them, you know? Just... 'Cause I, I wasn't reading patterns of people anymore. Like if someone leans this way a little bit, I'm like, "Oh, okay, I know what you're thinking."

Joe Rogan 59:34 Right.

Cat Zingano 59:34 Like if they step this way or that way and, and even me juking them and, like, trying to, like, feint at them, like I, I wasn't... I couldn't even see the reaction I was making them make. Like I knew what motions in my muscular memory to make them do, but it w-... Like I wasn't getting the feedback because it, it just like wasn't... So that was one of the first things I noticed was, you know, going back into practice and, (sighs) and watching people's angles and beating them to it and, and r- and like remembering. I'm like, "Damn, I don't just have to shoot to shoot." Like I can wait and do it when it's the right time or I can even like, like take advantage of, of the fact that, you know, I'm making them step back or I can flash fire in their face and, and jump on them at their knee-jerk reaction, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 1:00:17 Like these things of, like, being able to manipulate the situation and make them adjust to me, like I could see that again. And I could see, um-

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 So what were you seeing before? Like when, when-

Cat Zingano 1:00:27 I just had go. All I had was go.

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 Like it... When... You didn't see movement? Like say if someone was gonna spin and they, like, loaded up their hips, you didn't see that?

Cat Zingano 1:00:35 No, it was just hit, hit them first.

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 What, what were you seeing?

Cat Zingano 1:00:38 I... All... I, I didn't... All I saw was get there first. All I saw was, like, close the distance. Don't get hit in the head. Like make... Like get down, get low and just be a linebacker, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 Wow.

Cat Zingano 1:00:51 And, and hit them because I, I knew I wasn't seeing that stuff, and the more I tried to see it, the more I would just sit there and wear it 'cause I'm like, "Any minute now. Any minute now I'm gonna, I'm gonna catch the pattern. I'm gonna catch the pattern."

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Mm-hmm. But it wasn't there for you.

Cat Zingano 1:01:02 And it wasn't popping up, so then all I had was just tact.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 So even if you were just like super light sparring, just moving around, you didn't see it?

Cat Zingano 1:01:10 No. And... No. Not really, no.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Wow.

Cat Zingano 1:01:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 That's fucking terrifying.

Cat Zingano 1:01:15 I was like... Yeah. It was really scary and, like, even, I'd even get to, like, a good position in jujitsu and I'd be like, "I know I know stuff here. I know I know stuff here."

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 But you didn't know what to do.

Cat Zingano 1:01:24 "What was it? What was it? What was it? I know I know stuff." You know? But, like, it wasn't... Like especially with adrenaline firing, like it wasn't just happening for me. And so, like, three, four weeks into that-... all of a sudden, like, that fog was starting to go down a bit, right? And, like, part of it was ... (sighs) And then, and then I'm also sleeping better, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 Were you skeptical before? Like, during, like, the first week, where you're, like, just doing anything?

Cat Zingano 1:01:46 Oh, yeah. 'Cause every, every fucking person I went to could fix me.

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 Right. And you're driving 45 minutes, like, "What the fuck am I doing?"

Cat Zingano 1:01:53 Yeah. Y- yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 1:01:55 In a, in a, in a car I leased. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 (laughs)

Cat Zingano 1:01:59 So all those miles, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 Right, right, right.

Cat Zingano 1:02:00 It's like, damn. And, um, it's, uh ... It was super frustrating. Yes, everyone can fix me. Everyone-

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 Yeah.

Cat Zingano 1:02:07 ... can fix me. And then they don't, and then my heart's broken again. And then I go to the next one, and then my heart's broken again. And then, and then the next one. So this one, I'm like, I'm like, "I'm not even gonna tell people about this because I'm sick of fucking hitting up people and being excited about it and telling them to come with me, and then it doesn't work, and then I'm that guy again."

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Right.

Cat Zingano 1:02:24 You know? And so going into this and then watching it work and then seeing all the other people it was working for in there that ... And they were never trying to push me to promote it. They were like, "Just come in. Just get here." You know? And-

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 1:02:35 And if you like it, then tell the ... 'Cause the UFC was talking about getting one of the machines at the PI.

Joe Rogan 1:02:41 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 1:02:41 And they're kinda gonna have me be, like, a, a guinea pig for it. Ian McCall went in there too, but it didn't ... Like, he, he was doing his own kinda other stuff that wa- was making it so it wasn't working for him. But, like, I, I was all in, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:55 He was doing something that was making it so it wasn't working for him?

Cat Zingano 1:02:57 I don't think he was coming in often.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Oh.

Cat Zingano 1:02:59 So I think ... And, and the thing is, is that it does stir shit up, right? So, like, they, they, they mess with your, the, the levels because, again, they have to, like ... If y- the back of your brain's running at four hertz and, and ... Okay, eight is technically where, like, you're sleeping, you're at rest. Like, you're- there's part of your brains that could be under your resting hertz, right? While the front of your brain is running at 12, so that's like high anxiety, but, like, low energy. And, and, and they can, they can almost-

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 Hmm.

Cat Zingano 1:03:27 ... tell you how you've been feeling lately, which was, like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 Wow.

Cat Zingano 1:03:30 ... nuts to me, right? And y- you c- they can tell, you know, because of this and this, that, that you have s- some OCD tendencies versus this person constantly feels like they have no energy and their memory isn't working and they're emotionally incapable of, like, b- being in, you know, being a positive force in a relationship right now 'cause they don't have it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 So they could read your brain like that? Damn, I need to get my fucking brain-

Cat Zingano 1:03:51 You should.

Joe Rogan 1:03:51 ... checked out. (laughs)

Cat Zingano 1:03:52 You should. You should. It's scary though 'cause, like, you, you ... When you see that, like, little, like, errr in there, you're like, "What's that?"

Joe Rogan 1:03:57 (groans) But it's, for me, it's, that's a two-hour drive. Shit.

Cat Zingano 1:04:00 Yeah. I know that they're ... I don't know if they have anything up here. I know that they've-

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 I bet they don't.

Cat Zingano 1:04:04 They, they have a bunch all over-

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 Here it is. But this is what it's called. I couldn't ... The website's not coming up, but this is- Personalized repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation, a noninvasive therapeutic approach to the treatment of PTSD and other neurocognitive disorders. Uh, Kevin T. Murphy, MD, Vice Chair, Department of Radiation Medicine, Applied Sciences, UC San Diego. Director, Pediatric Radiation Oncology Program, uh, Rady Children's Hospital, San Diego. Wow.

Cat Zingano 1:04:32 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 So that's where you're going. And, um ... I mean, obviously, during this whole thing, you have to be questioning what you do for a living.

Cat Zingano 1:04:41 Oh, yeah. Well, and it's like, okay, so they can fix this. Say they fix it, and then I go do it again, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 Well, if you're gonna fight Cyborg, right? I mean, you were, you were thinking about fixing it, and you, you were going from one girl who hits like a dude to another girl who might hit like a bigger dude.

Cat Zingano 1:04:57 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 You know? I mean, Cyborg's fucking terrifying.

Cat Zingano 1:05:00 And it's, and it's like, I know healthy, at my healthiest ...

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 Mm-hmm.

Cat Zingano 1:05:04 Like, no, no problem. I believe that. Like, I believe in myself like that. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:05:07 Right.

Cat Zingano 1:05:08 ... I can figure them out, especially and find a way to not get hit doing it. Like, I didn't get hit in my MMA career significant a hit, not one significant, significant hit until Amanda. And then after that, I was getting fucking lit up. Right? And, uh, and not even that. Even Juliana. Like, she kinda open-hand bitch slapped me a little bit from the sides, but I ... And, but, like, I can find a way to, to, like, still control it enough to be, like, like, very effective without taking too much damage.

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 Right.

Cat Zingano 1:05:38 But, like, that, that slow of my, my motor skills, my mechanics, it was, it was really bothering me. And that's not how you go fight someone like Cyborg. You don't go-

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 No.

Cat Zingano 1:05:48 ... in there with that weight-

Joe Rogan 1:05:48 But it's-

Cat Zingano 1:05:49 ... in your pocket, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 It's so important that you're