JRE MMA Show #29 with Cat Zingano

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Here we go in…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Here we go in four, three, two, one. (claps) Boom. And we're live, Cat. How are you?

   2. CZCat Zingano0:08

      I'm good. How are you doing?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Good to see you here.

   4. CZCat Zingano0:10

      Yeah. Thanks for having me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      My pleasure. My ple- I've been looking forward to talking to you for a while.

   6. CZCat Zingano0:14

      I know. It's, uh, I feel like been a long time coming. I, I don't even know how much time we have. I feel like there's a, a hell of a lot to catch up on. So-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Yeah. There's a lot to talk about, always. You're, uh, getting ready for Boise? That's your, uh, your next fight?

   8. CZCat Zingano0:26

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      Who you fighting?

   10. CZCat Zingano0:27

       Um, Maryan Renau. Um, July 14th at the CenturyLink Arena.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Now, you took ... You took a good stretch off, right?

   12. CZCat Zingano0:37

       A couple times.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Yeah.

   14. CZCat Zingano0:38

       A couple times. I, um ... Let's see. After I fought Miesha, I blew my knee, and then the world exploded. And so I had, I think, 18 months off between that and fighting, uh, Amanda.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Mm-hmm.

   16. CZCat Zingano0:50

       And then, after I fought Amanda, I ... So Amanda was, like, September 27th, something like that. And I fought Rhonda February 28th, and then after Rhonda, uh, took another big stretch off. Fought Juliana the following year, uh, July 9th, and then this was another big stretch off. So yeah, it's been a little bit scattered, but doing what I can.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       Yeah, and you were, you were doing some crazy therapy too, right? Some, some interesting stuff down in San Diego.

   18. CZCat Zingano1:20

       Yeah, so, um, there's, there's been a few things I've been working on. Like, I'm not a huge fan of Western medicine, you know? Like, uh, even ... Uh, I mean, you can call it alternative medicine, it's like original medicine. I, I appreciate looking at things like that way more than, you know, big farm, but I, uh ... You know, one thing that, um, you know, fighting has gotten me and, and stuff with, you know, I th- I think it's more prevalent in women al- although I'm sh- thinking it's happening with men too, is like, our endocrine systems are not happy with these weight cuts, and they're not happy with us, like, getting hit in the head a lot.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       (laughs)

   20. CZCat Zingano1:51

       I mean, go figure, right? (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       Yeah, go figure.

   22. CZCat Zingano1:54

       So, um, you know, within all of that, I've just, you know, had medical problems and things that, like, I'm constantly working on, and I feel really good. I'm, I'm constantly improving, but, um, one thing I was feeling a little bit stuck on was, uh, one, I was like, some of the endocrine problem issues, but, um, like, uh, I don't know. I, I had, uh, had... I went to this facility in, in San Diego's called, um ... Dang, why can't I remember? Oh, uh, Mindset. And actually the UFC sent me there because, I mean, we have USADA, we have all of these things like, um ... After fighting Amanda, I got my head pounded for a good four minutes there. Um, I had a TBI afterwards, so that was like, uh, immediately lowered my, uh, estrogen, lowered by DHEA, my testosterone, and I'm hypothyroid. Like, I will always be hypothyroid now. Like, I have-

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       After that fight?

   24. CZCat Zingano2:47

       Yeah, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:48

       Wow.

   26. CZCat Zingano2:48

       And, um, you know, still toughed it out, still was trying to do what I could to go and fight Rhonda as soon as I did afterwards, and, you know, part of my game plan is don't get hit, and which means, like, let's just dart at her and see what happens, you know? (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:01

       (laughs)

   28. CZCat Zingano3:01

       So, well, that's what happens when you do that. Um-

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:04

       Yeah. So people who don't know, TBI is traumatic brain injury, just in case there's someone who's listening to this doesn't understand what we're talking about.

   30. CZCat Zingano3:10

       Mm-hmm.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   You mean when the…

   1. CZCat Zingano15:00

      maybe other people had that experience. But, like, for me, I need to see it for myself. Like, if I go and I do a tournament and I do great, then hell yeah, I'm gonna have higher expectations of myself in a fight. If I go and I do shitty, okay, well, like, now I get to learn. Like, that ... Competing is where I get to learn everything, and spacing out these competitions, especially the time I've had to take off in between fights, like, like, I'm not s- ... I don't believe necessarily in ring rust, but, like, when they say go, I, I don't know what go means until a little bit later than I'm expecting. And, and it's been the pattern in these last two fights.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:34

      You mean when the fight starts, you still feel like, "Is this really happening?"

   3. CZCat Zingano15:38

      Kinda. Well-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      (laughs)

   5. CZCat Zingano15:39

      ... even this last fight, this last fight with Ketlyn, like, we got in, and I was like, "Do I remember what to do here?" You know? And I was like, "Fuck it. I'm just gonna throw bombs." And the whole time (laughs) I was just like ... And I'm not e- that's not me either, you know? I was just like-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:51

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CZCat Zingano15:51

      ... chucking my hands at her and hoping they land. And if they didn't, like, get the fuck out, you know?

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:55

      So d- did you feel, like, out of composure?

   9. CZCat Zingano15:58

      Yeah, until the, until the third round. And then the third round, I was awake and ready to go. And I mean, I felt warmed up. I felt right. And, you know, she was looking at the clock and backing up and all this, and I was just like, "Come here, come here." Like, "I'm ready to fight finally." Like, "Come here." (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:12

       (laughs)

   11. CZCat Zingano16:13

       And, uh, you know, I don't know. So there's something to be fixed about that. Uh, I don't think it's a secret, but, um, I- I don't know. I think maybe something with the warmup. I need to, like, fully, like, have, like, a respiratory exhaustion before I go in so I can simulate those first rounds being the hell out of the way. Um, even in wrestling-

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:31

       So you think it's just a, a nerve thing or-

   13. CZCat Zingano16:32

       I don't know.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       ... an adrenaline thing?

   15. CZCat Zingano16:34

       I ... You know, there's, there's a lot to it. Like, um ... Gosh, we're bouncing around all these different things.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:41

       That's fair.

   17. CZCat Zingano16:41

       But I mean, one thing with the, with that treatment center that I went to is, like, um, doing different things, like, dealing with your psychology, dealing with, like, the synchrony in your brain, you know, having your brain function in, in the, on the same hertz at the same or different areas of your brain.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       What ... So what do they do exactly? What, uh-

   19. CZCat Zingano16:58

       So it's-

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:58

       How is this therapy?

   21. CZCat Zingano16:59

       So it's these magnets, right? Like, the, the main people in there are ... I mean, it's beautiful, not beautiful, but beautiful to see sitting in the lobby waiting when you see people with Alzheimer's come in. Like, there's a man that wheels his wife in every day, and, and you can, you can ... I think at the beginning of the week, she gets, like, an IV, so she's, like, a little bit more up and chipper. But by the end of the week, you know, she's a little bit more slouched and, and stories like his where he's talking about, um, you know, before they started going in there, she would just go to the bathroom, uh, all over. And every day, this man takes care of his wife, puts her makeup on her, like, goes and gets her hair done, even though she doesn't even know, you know? And now she can at least tell him that she needs to go to the bathroom.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:45

       Wow.

   23. CZCat Zingano17:45

       Like, just be like, "Hey, hey, it's time."

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:47

       Right.

   25. CZCat Zingano17:47

       You know? And he can get her there. And then, you know, sort of kind of have, like, meaningful moments that they haven't had in a while for ... Uh, and there's a ton of veterans in there, um, and active veterans too, active, uh, military guys that are, you know, they're doing these door breaches, and then they get their head rattled up too many times, and they're noticing they have problems with some depression. I mean, and these are high level Navy SEALs, high level, like, like, special forces that need, um-... need, they're expensive people. They've, there's millions of dollars poured into these people and they're not ready to let them go yet, so they're like, "How can we fix them? Give them this, like, performance edge, but still get them, like, eh, like, healed enough, s- but we need, we need to throw them back in there."

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:29

       Right, right.

   27. CZCat Zingano18:29

       "They, we need them," you know? And so, I've had to sit in on appointments with the Department of Defense and talk about my experience with it. I had to, uh, I, uh, I don't, I... There's some really famous people I don't even think I getta say 'cause I'd be a dick and I'm gonna probably be in trouble.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:43

       (laughs)

   29. CZCat Zingano18:44

       But, um, that I've sat in on, and, you know, they've had their own issues with, uh, mental health, or PTSD, or, um, uh, their, like, autism, different things, like family members of theirs or whatever that I've sat in on and kind of been helpful and talking about. Because I went in there on two different antidepressants, um, and these I was put on at the Mayo Clinic. And I felt like-

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:07

       This is post the Nunes fight.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Right. …

   1. CZCat Zingano30:00

      entertaining people, but, like, I need to know. I need to know that, like, w- that be in nature, you know? That be doing whatever, that be self-defense, that be, uh, f- fuck, us fighting over a territory or food or, or whatever. Like, I need to know what would happen. Like, if we had ... like, that's why I want these finishes. We only get 15 minutes to be able to tell ourselves what woulda happened in that situation, you know? And, and when it goes to a decision, I'm pissed, 'cause I don't know, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:27

      Right.

   3. CZCat Zingano30:28

      Like, you don't know, especially these three-round fights where I'm waking up, like, these last couple fights, like, late in the fight, I'm, I'm pissed 'cause I'm like, "I don't know." If that woulda been another 30 minutes or another two hours that we're scrapping in the woods, like, who gets the bone? You know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:42

      (laughs)

   5. CZCat Zingano30:42

      I wanna know. And, and so that's just ... it's, it's crazy, and it's your practicality and it's your survival, and this is the way I get to know myself.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:50

      Dude, that's deep.

   7. CZCat Zingano30:51

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:52

      Who gets the bone?

   9. CZCat Zingano30:54

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:54

       Whoo, damn. (slaps table) The way you just put it, and I don't think I've ever heard anybody put it that way. You need to know. Yeah. That's intense. But I get it. I get it. That's where that scream comes from.

   11. CZCat Zingano31:10

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       You got the bone. (laughs)

   13. CZCat Zingano31:13

       (laughs) It's my bone. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       So you go down to San Diego. What was your short list? You, you, before, by the way, I'm a huge fan of, uh, Eric. Uh, Alliance is just one of the best camps, for sure. And I think Eric Del Fierro's, like, probably one of the most underrated, and because he doesn't toot his own horn.

   15. CZCat Zingano31:31

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:31

       He's, like, in the shadows.

   17. CZCat Zingano31:33

       (clears throat)

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       Laid back, doesn't want any attention. Just not trying to get any attention. Like, he's the last guy to, like, request attention, you know, but super, super knowledgeable, and one of the best guys in a corner too.

   19. CZCat Zingano31:45

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:45

       Like, his advice is always excellent. Like, uh, uh, never, never heard him say the wrong thing in a corner. He's always, like, on point. But what was your short list of places to go to, besides Alliance?

   21. CZCat Zingano31:57

       Um, I went to-

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:00

       Did you go to New Mexico?

   23. CZCat Zingano32:01

       Uh, yes, but I feel like I'm not trying to walk in on Holly and, like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:05

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CZCat Zingano32:06

       ... make shit weird.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:06

       Right.

   27. CZCat Zingano32:06

       And we're gonna fight each other at some point, I know, and that just, you know, I, I don't wanna be that guy.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:12

       Mm-hmm. Right, right.

   29. CZCat Zingano32:13

       You know? Uh, although I know I'm welcome, and I know that everyone there has always been nice. I've gone and trained there before, and it's been good. Um, but it's just not a cool move, you know?

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:22

       Right.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Outbursts. Yeah. …

   1. CZCat Zingano45:00

      they're noticing obviously, uh, patterns with fighters, hockey players, football players, like- like people that are leading with their heads basically, um, having like, uh, and then with the veterans there's like emotional, um, things too where I mean they ever-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:14

      Outbursts. Yeah.

   3. CZCat Zingano45:15

      And yeah, and then like, I mean having to compartmentalize as well. Like some of the shit they see should be upsetting, you know. So, and- and, you know, but there's- there's different ways that we can train our brain to- to drop things like that. And then PTSD is when it's involuntary and it, and it all comes in and- and that. So, you know, I- I've been diagnosed with PTSD.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:37

      (clears throat)

   5. CZCat Zingano45:37

      I had walked in there with medication because of being depressed, uh, and the anxiety and- and all of that. Like, my symptoms were terrible and I know they're a combination of things, but even like my startle reflex, like, you know, I could hear someone come walking around the corner, like clap, clap, clap, hear their shoes, but the second I'd see them it would, it would stop my heart for a second.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:58

      Hmm.

   7. CZCat Zingano45:58

      And that's like shit on your adrenal glands, you know? And- and, um, all this stuff was, you know, and anxiety that, um, I don't know. It was- it was hard to fall asleep at night. Uh, you know, my memory was crap and- and this is all, you know, different stuff happening in all these other fighters that I know as well.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:17

      Hmm.

   9. CZCat Zingano46:17

      But I mean, uh, like I said, I've been trying things so much, so much over the past few years that I get excited about and either it works or it doesn't. And, um, (clears throat) the- the point is, is- is now I found this and I feel better from this, but I- I was so excited about all these other things. Like, I can't just start telling everybody of the new thing that I found because I've said that and been excited about like everything else but this one, this one...

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:43

       What other things you've been excited about?

   11. CZCat Zingano46:44

       Um, like the ecoscope. It's like-

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:46

       What's that?

   13. CZCat Zingano46:47

       ... uh, it's a, um, same thing. It's kind of like a TENS machine or a STEM machine, but like a-

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CZCat Zingano46:52

       ... super, super low frequency and that's badass too. Like, it- it- it helped on injuries, like, you know, if I rolled my ankle or hurt my toe, like you could bring the swelling down from this to- to normal essentially in like an hour and a half just working on it with this like TENS unit on it. And- and-

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:09

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CZCat Zingano47:09

       ... I mean, they- they originally used it for race horses and- and for, you know, super expensive million dollar horses. Like, the equipment they brought over was like $90 grand.

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:18

       Hmm.

   19. CZCat Zingano47:19

       And like s- like these really specific like special metals that were put into these plates and, you know, they would do stuff like that, but that wasn't working on my head. It was working on injuries and it was working on, um, I wanna say it helped with like my, like digestive system maybe or my, um, uh, I don't remember. Some- some other things it was helping with too, but what, you know, I- I- I started doing that, um, or I was doing that when I walked into Mindset and started doing that treatment. (clears throat)

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:49

       And so what do they do at Mindset?

   21. CZCat Zingano47:51

       So you sit in this chair, you know, and they ha- they put this prescription in this machine and the machine has kind of got like a, like a arm that (clears throat) goes on a specific part of your brain and you, you know, you close your eyes and it sends these- these magnetic pulses into your head. And I mean, y- you don't feel anything. It's almost like you can hear what it feels like, but I don't know how to describe it. It's- it's a sense. It's, there's a, it's sensual, but it's not, it's not exactly hearing and it's not exactly feeling.

   22. JRJoe Rogan48:21

       Huh.

   23. CZCat Zingano48:21

       Um-

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:22

       But you can tell something's happening?

   25. CZCat Zingano48:23

       Yeah. And I mean, you, you leave the place after your treatment, like I go, I would go twice a day. It's 45 minutes away both ways. So I, I'm driving a lot every day to go to do this 'cause I wanna give it a fair shot. (clears throat)

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:37

       You do, you do it every day?

   27. CZCat Zingano48:39

       I do every day.

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:39

       Wow.

   29. CZCat Zingano48:40

       I haven't gone these past couple weeks 'cause, uh, stuff with my kids, uh, schedule, school's almost out and then wanting to try out different things, different coaches, uh, as far as these new disciplines go. So I haven't been there as much, but, um, yeah, for the last (sighs) it was August I believe is- is when I was like really, really getting into it and going twice a day, 45 minutes each way, twice a day.

   30. JRJoe Rogan49:04

       Twice a day?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:06:01

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. CZCat Zingano1:00:00

      r- and like remembering. I'm like, "Damn, I don't just have to shoot to shoot." Like I can wait and do it when it's the right time or I can even like, like take advantage of, of the fact that, you know, I'm making them step back or I can flash fire in their face and, and jump on them at their knee-jerk reaction, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:17

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CZCat Zingano1:00:17

      Like these things of, like, being able to manipulate the situation and make them adjust to me, like I could see that again. And I could see, um-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

      So what were you seeing before? Like when, when-

   5. CZCat Zingano1:00:27

      I just had go. All I had was go.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:29

      Like it... When... You didn't see movement? Like say if someone was gonna spin and they, like, loaded up their hips, you didn't see that?

   7. CZCat Zingano1:00:35

      No, it was just hit, hit them first.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

      What, what were you seeing?

   9. CZCat Zingano1:00:38

      I... All... I, I didn't... All I saw was get there first. All I saw was, like, close the distance. Don't get hit in the head. Like make... Like get down, get low and just be a linebacker, you know?

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:50

       Wow.

   11. CZCat Zingano1:00:51

       And, and hit them because I, I knew I wasn't seeing that stuff, and the more I tried to see it, the more I would just sit there and wear it 'cause I'm like, "Any minute now. Any minute now I'm gonna, I'm gonna catch the pattern. I'm gonna catch the pattern."

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

       Mm-hmm. But it wasn't there for you.

   13. CZCat Zingano1:01:02

       And it wasn't popping up, so then all I had was just tact.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       So even if you were just like super light sparring, just moving around, you didn't see it?

   15. CZCat Zingano1:01:10

       No. And... No. Not really, no.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:13

       Wow.

   17. CZCat Zingano1:01:13

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:14

       That's fucking terrifying.

   19. CZCat Zingano1:01:15

       I was like... Yeah. It was really scary and, like, even, I'd even get to, like, a good position in jujitsu and I'd be like, "I know I know stuff here. I know I know stuff here."

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:23

       But you didn't know what to do.

   21. CZCat Zingano1:01:24

       "What was it? What was it? What was it? I know I know stuff." You know? But, like, it wasn't... Like especially with adrenaline firing, like it wasn't just happening for me. And so, like, three, four weeks into that-... all of a sudden, like, that fog was starting to go down a bit, right? And, like, part of it was ... (sighs) And then, and then I'm also sleeping better, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

       Were you skeptical before? Like, during, like, the first week, where you're, like, just doing anything?

   23. CZCat Zingano1:01:46

       Oh, yeah. 'Cause every, every fucking person I went to could fix me.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

       Right. And you're driving 45 minutes, like, "What the fuck am I doing?"

   25. CZCat Zingano1:01:53

       Yeah. Y- yeah. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:55

       Yeah.

   27. CZCat Zingano1:01:55

       In a, in a, in a car I leased. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

       (laughs)

   29. CZCat Zingano1:01:59

       So all those miles, you know?

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:00

       Right, right, right.

Episode duration: 2:32:04