JRE MMA Show #29 with Cat Zingano

1. 0:00 – 0:32

   Boise return: upcoming fight with Marion Reneau

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Here we go in four, three, two, one. (claps) Boom. And we're live, Cat. How are you?

   2. CZCat Zingano0:08

      I'm good. How are you doing?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Good to see you here.

   4. CZCat Zingano0:10

      Yeah. Thanks for having me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      My pleasure. My ple- I've been looking forward to talking to you for a while.

   6. CZCat Zingano0:14

      I know. It's, uh, I feel like been a long time coming. I, I don't even know how much time we have. I feel like there's a, a hell of a lot to catch up on. So-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Yeah. There's a lot to talk about, always. You're, uh, getting ready for Boise? That's your, uh, your next fight?

   8. CZCat Zingano0:26

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      Who you fighting?

   10. CZCat Zingano0:27

       Um, Maryan Renau. Um, July 14th at the CenturyLink Arena.

2. 0:32 – 1:14

   Layoffs, injuries, and how Cat’s schedule got disrupted

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:32

      Now, you took ... You took a good stretch off, right?

   2. CZCat Zingano0:37

      A couple times.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:37

      Yeah.

   4. CZCat Zingano0:38

      A couple times. I, um ... Let's see. After I fought Miesha, I blew my knee, and then the world exploded. And so I had, I think, 18 months off between that and fighting, uh, Amanda.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:50

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CZCat Zingano0:50

      And then, after I fought Amanda, I ... So Amanda was, like, September 27th, something like that. And I fought Rhonda February 28th, and then after Rhonda, uh, took another big stretch off. Fought Juliana the following year, uh, July 9th, and then this was another big stretch off. So yeah, it's been a little bit scattered, but doing what I can.

3. 1:14 – 3:10

   Endocrine fallout, weight cuts, and post-fight health problems

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:14

      Yeah, and you were, you were doing some crazy therapy too, right? Some, some interesting stuff down in San Diego.

   2. CZCat Zingano1:20

      Yeah, so, um, there's, there's been a few things I've been working on. Like, I'm not a huge fan of Western medicine, you know? Like, uh, even ... Uh, I mean, you can call it alternative medicine, it's like original medicine. I, I appreciate looking at things like that way more than, you know, big farm, but I, uh ... You know, one thing that, um, you know, fighting has gotten me and, and stuff with, you know, I th- I think it's more prevalent in women al- although I'm sh- thinking it's happening with men too, is like, our endocrine systems are not happy with these weight cuts, and they're not happy with us, like, getting hit in the head a lot.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:51

      (laughs)

   4. CZCat Zingano1:51

      I mean, go figure, right? (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:52

      Yeah, go figure.

   6. CZCat Zingano1:54

      So, um, you know, within all of that, I've just, you know, had medical problems and things that, like, I'm constantly working on, and I feel really good. I'm, I'm constantly improving, but, um, one thing I was feeling a little bit stuck on was, uh, one, I was like, some of the endocrine problem issues, but, um, like, uh, I don't know. I, I had, uh, had... I went to this facility in, in San Diego's called, um ... Dang, why can't I remember? Oh, uh, Mindset. And actually the UFC sent me there because, I mean, we have USADA, we have all of these things like, um ... After fighting Amanda, I got my head pounded for a good four minutes there. Um, I had a TBI afterwards, so that was like, uh, immediately lowered my, uh, estrogen, lowered by DHEA, my testosterone, and I'm hypothyroid. Like, I will always be hypothyroid now. Like, I have-

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:46

      After that fight?

   8. CZCat Zingano2:47

      Yeah, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:48

      Wow.

   10. CZCat Zingano2:48

       And, um, you know, still toughed it out, still was trying to do what I could to go and fight Rhonda as soon as I did afterwards, and, you know, part of my game plan is don't get hit, and which means, like, let's just dart at her and see what happens, you know? (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:01

       (laughs)

   12. CZCat Zingano3:01

       So, well, that's what happens when you do that. Um-

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:04

       Yeah. So people who don't know, TBI is traumatic brain injury, just in case there's someone who's listening to this doesn't understand what we're talking about.

   14. CZCat Zingano3:10

       Mm-hmm.

4. 3:10 – 4:08

   Revisiting Rousey and the rapid evolution of women’s MMA

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:10

      And then in the Rhonda fight, if people don't know about that, you just charged after her and you got caught in an arm bar, and like, what was it? Very quick. It was like 14 seconds.

   2. CZCat Zingano3:16

      Okay. It was 14 seconds, but I did hit her with a knee. I did throw her ass, but (laughs) -

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:22

      (laughs)

   4. CZCat Zingano3:23

      ... she practiced a little ninja move and caught my damn arm-

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:26

      Yeah.

   6. CZCat Zingano3:26

      ... and it was, it was over, you know? But, I mean, even, even her coaches were like, "I mean, that's ... You did what you're supposed to do there, and she just got you." You know?

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:34

      Yeah.

   8. CZCat Zingano3:34

      So, um, that would be an awesome fight to be able to revisit one day. Uh, she even said we'd do it. I mean, who knows? Her career is so open right now.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:40

      I don't think she's ever gonna fight again.

   10. CZCat Zingano3:42

       She doesn't need to.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:43

       Yeah, I just-

   12. CZCat Zingano3:43

       She really doesn't need to.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:44

       I don't think she wants to, you know?

   14. CZCat Zingano3:46

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:47

       I think, uh ... I don't mean, who knows? You'd have to ask her, but there's a lot of lessons to be learned in what happened to her.

   16. CZCat Zingano3:55

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:55

       In terms of, like, all of the distractions and Hollywood came calling and there were scripts and talk about doing Road House-

   18. CZCat Zingano4:03

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:03

       ... and there was all this, all this shit going on that was other than fighting.

   20. CZCat Zingano4:08

       Yeah.

5. 4:08 – 8:39

   Amanda Nunes’ dominance, contender politics, and Cat’s title-shot frustrations

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:08

      You know? And then it was also, look, the sport has evolved so rapidly and the women's, women's MMA has gotten so high level so quickly, and if you ... I'm sure you saw Amanda's last fight-

   2. CZCat Zingano4:22

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:22

      ... with, uh, Raquel Pennington. Like, holy shit. I mean, uh, so ... That was a fucking high level performance-

   4. CZCat Zingano4:29

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:29

      ... from her, and five rounds, super high cardio. Just put a beating down on Raquel Pennington, who's one of the toughest girls in the world, for sure.

   6. CZCat Zingano4:39

      Right. I do ... Like, I mean, I'm cur- I'm saying the same thing as the fight's going, right? And then I have, uh, some people in my ear next to me. They're like, "Well, how long has it been since Raquel fought?" 'Cause she didn't look her-

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:50

      Right.

   8. CZCat Zingano4:50

      ... her, like, beefiest, right? She, she looked a little tired. She looked a little, like, not her typical. And then it's, it's like she's a year and a half off herself, right?

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:59

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   10. CZCat Zingano4:59

       Like, right into a title fight, which I have to say, I'm a little bit envious of, because when I beat Miesha, I won, uh ... I was supposed to coach Ultimate Fighter, but that was al- ultimately gonna end up in a title shot with Rhonda, and I blew my knee, and my husband passed away, and there was, like, a, a long moment of silence in there, and then when I was able to come back, they made me re-earn my title shot.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:22

       Mm.

   12. CZCat Zingano5:23

       You know? And so it was like, wait, oh, we're doing that now? We're just like ... You know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:26

       Well, it doesn't depend on, like, what, uh, what attractive contenders are available? Like, what they can sell-

   14. CZCat Zingano5:32

       I agree. Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:32

       ... and what looks good.

   16. CZCat Zingano5:33

       I agree.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       And-

   18. CZCat Zingano5:33

       Yeah, I mean, I was very young at that-

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       Yeah.

   20. CZCat Zingano5:35

       ... at that age, or at that, that time too.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:37

       Right. And in bantamweight right now, there's like ... There's no standout contender, and Raquel had beaten some really good fighters.

   22. CZCat Zingano5:44

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:44

       And sh- she looked like the next in line, and ... Did she blow her knee out as well? She had some sort of surgery-

   24. CZCat Zingano5:48

       I wanna say she got, like ... Oh, I could be lying, but I think she got in, like, some accident with a four-wheeler, like rolled over and broke her leg, or ...

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:56

       Mm.

   26. CZCat Zingano5:57

       Something. I could, like, totally be making that up though. She coulda just twisted it walking down the street too, so I don't know. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan6:02

       (laughs) You just vaguely remember some injury.

   28. CZCat Zingano6:05

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:05

       I ... Now that you're saying that, I do remember something like a br- a broken leg.... but were you, uh, were you surprised by that fight?

   30. CZCat Zingano6:15

       Uh, between Raquel and Amanda?
6. 8:39 – 10:52

   Why Cat left Colorado: healing at sea level and starting over

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:39

      What made you decide to go to San Diego? So, you're at Alliance now, right?

   2. CZCat Zingano8:43

      Um-

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:43

      So, you moved from Colorado to San Diego.

   4. CZCat Zingano8:46

      So, a few things. So, one of them, one of them was, like, Colorado was a complicated situation for me. I mean, I had gyms up there. Like, a lot just personally happened up there. Um, and I love my team at Elevation. Like, I love... I s- I'm still close with everybody. Like, I, I go to Colorado for Christmas holidays. Like, it's still home, you know? But, uh, a couple of things. One, with the head injury, um, Colorado is amazing for training, right? It's amazing for building your, your endurance, and, and whatever, but it is not good for healing. Like, you'll never s- see a doctor tell someone with Alzheimer's, or a TBI, or heart problems, or e- even, like, massive allergies, or, um, what's the, uh-

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:27

      Arthritis?

   6. CZCat Zingano9:27

      Arthritis. Like, those are not... That's not a good place for people to live with any kind of inflammatory or, like, major thing that needs to be healing. 'Cause your body's already working at such a high level, because-

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:38

      Because of the altitude?

   8. CZCat Zingano9:38

      Yeah, because of the altitude. I mean, the thin air, the, the things like that, it's just like... I, I spent s- so much time and so (laughs) much money, like, figuring out what the hell was wrong with me, that, you know, I ended up at the Mayo Clinic spending weeks at a time going to all their, like, specialized different, uh, doctors and situations like that, for them to tell me, like, "You know, if you want to heal, you wanna give yourself the best opportunity to heal, you're probably not gonna do it up at altitude."

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:09

      Really?

   10. CZCat Zingano10:09

       "Like, we would prefer seeing you at sea level."

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:11

       Wow.

   12. CZCat Zingano10:11

       And, so, uh, combined, like, I kinda... I needed to almost exile myself from Colorado, 'cause I wanna love it, and I was starting to... It was starting to get, like, less colorful for me, you know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:23

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CZCat Zingano10:23

       'Cause I felt like I had the best there was, as far as coaches, and the best there was, as far as training partners, and the situations. Like, everything was as good as it was gonna get. Like, it, it literally was as good as it was gonna get, and it was like, "This, this can't be it." Like, "I don't feel, I don't feel right." And-

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:39

       You don't feel like you're at your maximum?

   16. CZCat Zingano10:41

       No. And, and I was like, "That means I'm gonna have to take a change." You know? And I was scared, like... (laughs) I have a little boy. Like, I'm taking him away from everything we know, and we just packed a U-Haul, and we left, and we, we got to San Diego.

7. 10:52 – 13:30

   Auditioning gyms anonymously: finding the right camp fit

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:52

      And what made you decide on San Diego?

   2. CZCat Zingano10:54

      I went... I wish I had written down, like, all the gyms I went to, and showed up at, like, anonymously too, because I didn't want them to, like... I wanted to kinda catch them with their pants down. Like, "What are you guys like-"

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:05

      Right.

   4. CZCat Zingano11:05

      "... right now?" Versus, if you're prepared, I don't wanna show up and have you have people here watching me. I don't want you to put on a show. Like, I wanna catch you wh- how you are, and, like, have you decide what you think of me too, because these needs, this needs to be a fit. I mean, fighting-

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:18

      Right.

   6. CZCat Zingano11:18

      ... and coaching, and training, is very intimate, and, and it needs to be authentic and real. The days I'm sitting there, ugly white girl, crying on the ground, but I need, I need you to tell me to keep... stay on the (laughs) aerodyne. You know what I mean?

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:30

      (laughs)

   8. CZCat Zingano11:30

      Like, just let me cry.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:31

      Right.

   10. CZCat Zingano11:31

       You know? That kind of thing.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:32

       Yeah.

   12. CZCat Zingano11:32

       And, um, it's, uh... So, I went to all these places, and like, I... The best part about it is that I got to learn and train with so many fighters and so many coaches that I, like... I'm so excited about the relationships I made, and the people I know. But, um, like, all of them, it was like, "This is awesome, but it's not the place. This is awesome, but it's not the place." I came up to LA, uh, if... And I was very close to going to American Top Team. They had a awesome deal set up for me to go, like, helping me with my kid, helping me with, um-... a good percentage for training, like how, uh, living situation was gonna be. They were gonna accommodate me really well. Um, but when it was time to, like, pack my car and go, like, something was, like, that wasn't it, you know? And so, I'm, like-

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:14

       Florida, that's the problem.

   14. CZCat Zingano12:15

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:17

       (laughs)

   16. CZCat Zingano12:17

       I mean, sweaty all the time-

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:19

       It's-

   18. CZCat Zingano12:19

       ... like, right here. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:19

       Yeah. Underboob sweat. (laughs)

   20. CZCat Zingano12:22

       Yeah. There's no-

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:22

       It's just-

   22. CZCat Zingano12:22

       ... making that look hot.

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:24

       It's, it's, uh-

   24. CZCat Zingano12:24

       It's not. (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:24

       ... it's just the humans there. There's a lot of cool people in Florida.

   26. CZCat Zingano12:27

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:28

       But there is just ... There's some subhumans down there.

   28. CZCat Zingano12:31

       Yeah. I-

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:32

       (laughs)

   30. CZCat Zingano12:32

       I really appreciated, like, the Latin culture. I mean, I'm all about-
8. 13:30 – 14:48

   Jiu-jitsu lineage, Atos training, and the pressure of a big MMA name

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:30

      What belt are you in jiu-jitsu?

   2. CZCat Zingano13:32

      Purple for, like, ever. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:35

      For how long?

   4. CZCat Zingano13:36

      Like, six years, maybe.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:37

      How come so long?

   6. CZCat Zingano13:38

      Because I'm being a weirdo about who promotes me. 'Cause my husband-

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:42

      Oh, really?

   8. CZCat Zingano13:42

      My husband promoted me to purple belt, and, like, I really want what, whoever takes over the lineage to be, like, that. Like, I don't want a, a different one from 10 different people.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:52

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CZCat Zingano13:52

       Like, I, I want that, like ... I wanna pick and it be right. And so actually now I'm super excited because I just started training at Atos.

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:01

       Okay.

   12. CZCat Zingano14:01

       And I have so much respect for Andre and his wife, Andre Delval.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:04

       Yeah, he's awesome.

   14. CZCat Zingano14:04

       And Angelica, they're so good.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:06

       Andre Delval. There's so many good fighters that come-

   16. CZCat Zingano14:07

       (sighs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:07

       ... out of that gym, too great jiu-jitsu fighters.

   18. CZCat Zingano14:09

       I- I've been training there, like, four weeks now. And I- I've, I mean, I've trained there before, but, like, every day for weeks now, and I've only had, like, one day where I walked out feeling like a rock star.

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:21

       (laughs)

   20. CZCat Zingano14:21

       The rest of the days, they were whooping my ass, but it was good, you know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:24

       Right, right.

   22. CZCat Zingano14:24

       Like, I needed that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:25

       Super-

   24. CZCat Zingano14:25

       And it tells me, you know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:26

       ... super high level.

   26. CZCat Zingano14:27

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:27

       Yeah.

   28. CZCat Zingano14:27

       And, um, there i- i- it's just been so good, and to see myself that way and to hold people that way, like, I was legit at jiu-jitsu, man. I was, like, killing it on the circuit for a long time. And then MMA comes in and puts this pressure on, like, even those kinds of competitions, even though they're not even the same animal. And I'm, I'm annoyed that I let that bother me and keep me from competing in between fights 'cause I loved that.

9. 14:48 – 16:59

   Ring rust and performance lag: ‘I don’t know what go means’

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:48

      So you mean because you have a big name in, in MMA, you feel weird about competing in jiu-jitsu tournaments?

   2. CZCat Zingano14:53

      I, I think I did. I, I-

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:55

      Yeah?

   4. CZCat Zingano14:55

      Or, or maybe I thought I'd pick up bad habits-

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:57

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CZCat Zingano14:57

      ... or I would do whatever, but because maybe other people had that experience. But, like, for me, I need to see it for myself. Like, if I go and I do a tournament and I do great, then hell yeah, I'm gonna have higher expectations of myself in a fight. If I go and I do shitty, okay, well, like, now I get to learn. Like, that ... Competing is where I get to learn everything, and spacing out these competitions, especially the time I've had to take off in between fights, like, like, I'm not s- ... I don't believe necessarily in ring rust, but, like, when they say go, I, I don't know what go means until a little bit later than I'm expecting. And, and it's been the pattern in these last two fights.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:34

      You mean when the fight starts, you still feel like, "Is this really happening?"

   8. CZCat Zingano15:38

      Kinda. Well-

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      (laughs)

   10. CZCat Zingano15:39

       ... even this last fight, this last fight with Ketlyn, like, we got in, and I was like, "Do I remember what to do here?" You know? And I was like, "Fuck it. I'm just gonna throw bombs." And the whole time (laughs) I was just like ... And I'm not e- that's not me either, you know? I was just like-

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CZCat Zingano15:51

       ... chucking my hands at her and hoping they land. And if they didn't, like, get the fuck out, you know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       So d- did you feel, like, out of composure?

   14. CZCat Zingano15:58

       Yeah, until the, until the third round. And then the third round, I was awake and ready to go. And I mean, I felt warmed up. I felt right. And, you know, she was looking at the clock and backing up and all this, and I was just like, "Come here, come here." Like, "I'm ready to fight finally." Like, "Come here." (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:12

       (laughs)

   16. CZCat Zingano16:13

       And, uh, you know, I don't know. So there's something to be fixed about that. Uh, I don't think it's a secret, but, um, I- I don't know. I think maybe something with the warmup. I need to, like, fully, like, have, like, a respiratory exhaustion before I go in so I can simulate those first rounds being the hell out of the way. Um, even in wrestling-

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:31

       So you think it's just a, a nerve thing or-

   18. CZCat Zingano16:32

       I don't know.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       ... an adrenaline thing?

   20. CZCat Zingano16:34

       I ... You know, there's, there's a lot to it. Like, um ... Gosh, we're bouncing around all these different things.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:41

       That's fair.

   22. CZCat Zingano16:41

       But I mean, one thing with the, with that treatment center that I went to is, like, um, doing different things, like, dealing with your psychology, dealing with, like, the synchrony in your brain, you know, having your brain function in, in the, on the same hertz at the same or different areas of your brain.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       What ... So what do they do exactly? What, uh-

   24. CZCat Zingano16:58

       So it's-

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:58

       How is this therapy?

10. 16:59 – 19:59

    Inside Mindset: magnetic brain therapy, PTSD symptoms, and real-world cases

    1. CZCat Zingano16:59

       So it's these magnets, right? Like, the, the main people in there are ... I mean, it's beautiful, not beautiful, but beautiful to see sitting in the lobby waiting when you see people with Alzheimer's come in. Like, there's a man that wheels his wife in every day, and, and you can, you can ... I think at the beginning of the week, she gets, like, an IV, so she's, like, a little bit more up and chipper. But by the end of the week, you know, she's a little bit more slouched and, and stories like his where he's talking about, um, you know, before they started going in there, she would just go to the bathroom, uh, all over. And every day, this man takes care of his wife, puts her makeup on her, like, goes and gets her hair done, even though she doesn't even know, you know? And now she can at least tell him that she needs to go to the bathroom.

    2. JRJoe Rogan17:45

       Wow.

    3. CZCat Zingano17:45

       Like, just be like, "Hey, hey, it's time."

    4. JRJoe Rogan17:47

       Right.

    5. CZCat Zingano17:47

       You know? And he can get her there. And then, you know, sort of kind of have, like, meaningful moments that they haven't had in a while for ... Uh, and there's a ton of veterans in there, um, and active veterans too, active, uh, military guys that are, you know, they're doing these door breaches, and then they get their head rattled up too many times, and they're noticing they have problems with some depression. I mean, and these are high level Navy SEALs, high level, like, like, special forces that need, um-... need, they're expensive people. They've, there's millions of dollars poured into these people and they're not ready to let them go yet, so they're like, "How can we fix them? Give them this, like, performance edge, but still get them, like, eh, like, healed enough, s- but we need, we need to throw them back in there."

    6. JRJoe Rogan18:29

       Right, right.

    7. CZCat Zingano18:29

       "They, we need them," you know? And so, I've had to sit in on appointments with the Department of Defense and talk about my experience with it. I had to, uh, I, uh, I don't, I... There's some really famous people I don't even think I getta say 'cause I'd be a dick and I'm gonna probably be in trouble.

    8. JRJoe Rogan18:43

       (laughs)

    9. CZCat Zingano18:44

       But, um, that I've sat in on, and, you know, they've had their own issues with, uh, mental health, or PTSD, or, um, uh, their, like, autism, different things, like family members of theirs or whatever that I've sat in on and kind of been helpful and talking about. Because I went in there on two different antidepressants, um, and these I was put on at the Mayo Clinic. And I felt like-

    10. JRJoe Rogan19:07

        This is post the Nunes fight.

    11. CZCat Zingano19:09

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan19:09

        This is how crazy MMA math is, right? Uh, you lose to Rhonda in 14 seconds. You KO Amanda Nunes. Amanda Nunes beats the shit outta Rhonda in 48 seconds.

    13. CZCat Zingano19:22

        Mm-hmm.

    14. JRJoe Rogan19:23

        Like, that's h- that's... You might be, like, the perfect example-

    15. CZCat Zingano19:26

        (laughs)

    16. JRJoe Rogan19:26

        ... of MMA math-

    17. CZCat Zingano19:27

        Mm-hmm.

    18. JRJoe Rogan19:28

        ... you know? And I mean, crazy. It's crazy. You've-

    19. CZCat Zingano19:30

        Well, and it's g-

    20. JRJoe Rogan19:31

        ... you, you've beaten down two UFC champions.

    21. CZCat Zingano19:34

        Well, and it, I mean, I took, it took two and a half rounds for me to, for me to sub Pennington too.

    22. JRJoe Rogan19:40

        Mm-hmm.

    23. CZCat Zingano19:41

        You know? Like, eh, there's nothing, like, you know, but who is it? Pennington goes toe to toe and round to round with Holly. Holly knocks out Rhonda Two.

    24. JRJoe Rogan19:50

        Yep. Yep.

    25. CZCat Zingano19:50

        Like, it's just, this division is-

    26. JRJoe Rogan19:52

        Pennington's fight with Ashley Evan Smith to this day, that, the ending, when she got her in that bulldog choke-

    27. CZCat Zingano19:59

        Oh, yeah. (laughs)

    28. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        ... she was covered in blood-

    29. CZCat Zingano19:59

        Oh, yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        ... and finished her, like literally one second.
11. 19:59 – 25:57

    Antidepressants, emotional flatness, and the Juliana Peña camp experience

    1. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       That was... She's done, she's had two fights that ended like that. With, like, one second to go she finishes the fight.

    2. CZCat Zingano19:59

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       She's a tough girl.

    4. CZCat Zingano19:59

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       Um, so the, anyway, MMA math is ridiculous, doesn't work.

    6. CZCat Zingano19:59

       (laughs)

    7. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       Um, and you might be the best example of how it doesn't work. But, so you go to this... The, the Mayo Clinic puts you on antidepressants-

    8. CZCat Zingano19:59

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       ... because you just feel like shit?

    10. CZCat Zingano19:59

        I feel like shit, and because, like, uh, of the, the different endocrine problems that I had, right? So I can't have, um, any of the medications that'll help that, so I have to be more conservative with it. And one way they thought to do it is 'cause my cortisol levels were really high, they're talking about, um... And I mean, granted, I have a lot of stress, especially like-

    11. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        Right.

    12. CZCat Zingano19:59

        ... you know? Life hasn't been easy these past, like-

    13. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        Single mom, your husband passes away.

    14. CZCat Zingano19:59

        Yep.

    15. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        You're in the toughest, probably the toughest sport on the planet Earth.

    16. CZCat Zingano19:59

        Trying to be the best at it too.

    17. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        Yeah. Yeah.

    18. CZCat Zingano19:59

        So-

    19. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        And you're elite. You're in the top 10, so you're, you're in this weird position where you, you never know when you're gonna fight or who you're gonna fight. There's a constant amount of stress. And it's not like you're making millions of dollars doing it either.

    20. CZCat Zingano19:59

        No. Well, and it's expediting healing for me, and, and I also have a kid going through what I'm going through.

    21. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        Right.

    22. CZCat Zingano19:59

        So it's not like I get to, like, split and cut corners and just-

    23. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        Right.

    24. CZCat Zingano19:59

        You know? It's like there's maintenance to be done at all times with that. So I go there. They tell me, "You know, we could probably lower your cortisol levels if we could lower, lower your stress levels, so we'll try antidepressants."

    25. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        And what did that make you feel like when they-

    26. CZCat Zingano19:59

        Flat-

    27. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        Flat?

    28. CZCat Zingano19:59

        ... as fuck. And, like, I didn't... Am I, can I, can I say "fuck" on this?

    29. JRJoe Rogan19:59

        We already did, yeah.

    30. CZCat Zingano19:59

        Okay.
12. 25:57 – 50:09

    ‘If they can’t fix me, I’m done’: retirement thoughts and Nunes’ power

    1. JRJoe Rogan25:57

       Did you think about retiring?

    2. CZCat Zingano25:58

       Yeah. And that, that's the thing is the center was really the place that was, is, like, okay, I'm gonna go here. I've tried everything else. I'm gonna go here and if they can't fix me, then, then I'm, I'm gonna have to be done.

    3. JRJoe Rogan26:11

       How crazy is that, man? How fucking hard does Amanda Nunes hit?

    4. CZCat Zingano26:15

       It, it's nuts. She does hit, like, she ... I, I don't wanna say she hits like a dude, 'cause that's kinda weird.

    5. JRJoe Rogan26:19

       (laughs)

    6. CZCat Zingano26:19

       You know?

    7. JRJoe Rogan26:20

       She hits like a dude, I'll say.

    8. CZCat Zingano26:21

       But, but ... (laughs)

    9. JRJoe Rogan26:21

       (laughs)

    10. CZCat Zingano26:22

        But, um-

    11. JRJoe Rogan26:23

        Yeah.

    12. CZCat Zingano26:24

        ... yeah, it's, uh-

    13. JRJoe Rogan26:25

        Yeah.

    14. CZCat Zingano26:25

        I remember being surprised. I remember, like, having this open guard on the ground and kinda like, "Come here." You know? Like-

    15. JRJoe Rogan26:31

        Mm-hmm.

    16. CZCat Zingano26:31

        "I dare you." And then she hit and I was like, "Oh. Oh." (laughs)

    17. JRJoe Rogan26:34

        (laughs)

    18. CZCat Zingano26:35

        "Oh, you have those." (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan26:38

        (laughs)

    20. CZCat Zingano26:38

        The fuck? (laughs) And that-

    21. JRJoe Rogan26:39

        Yeah, you could see the look on people's face when she hits, and, like, you saw it with Rhonda, like, right away.

    22. CZCat Zingano26:44

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan26:44

        She-

    24. CZCat Zingano26:44

        There's a part in that fight, 'cause I, I watched our fight after.

    25. JRJoe Rogan26:47

        Mm-hmm.

    26. CZCat Zingano26:48

        And, like, you, uh ... she hit me and it, like, did so- ... I think it's right when ... it had to be when I hurt my head, 'cause it, like, dropped my arm and it dropped my neck, and I just remember, like, seeing, like, the little tweety- tweety birds and I was pumped because I was like, "That's where the cartoons get it from."

    27. JRJoe Rogan27:04

        (laughs)

    28. CZCat Zingano27:04

        It's 'cause somebody explained that shit. That's exactly where they got it. It's like, "Woo."

    29. JRJoe Rogan27:08

        Wow.

    30. CZCat Zingano27:08

        And, uh, and my arm, like, I couldn't get my arm back up. And I remember-
13. 50:09 – 53:58

    Fighter health coverage and the UFC insurance window problem

    1. CZCat Zingano50:09

       Like, "I, I want to fight." They offered me to fight Cris Cyborg at 145 (clears throat) -

    2. JRJoe Rogan50:15

       That's more of the same.

    3. CZCat Zingano50:16

       And I was like ... Yeah, and I was like, "Well," like, "hell yeah, let's take that, but," like, "can you guys at least help me get this shit figured out first, please?" You know, and they're like, "Sure." Um, so Duncan French, he's at the-

    4. JRJoe Rogan50:27

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CZCat Zingano50:27

       ... the ... He's at ... He's ... So he went to college in t- and was at ... Or no, he was at Notre Dame using this treatment with the doctor, um, Kevin Murphy that runs the Mindset. So, uh, he was like, "This guy is doing a lot of things with people as far as brain health." He's like, "Go see them when you get back to San Diego. It's kinda far from you, but, like, give it a shot, Cat." And I called the guy. I'm on the phone super frustrated, like, super, like, emotional. I'm like, "I'm, I'm at my wits' end. Like, I've tried everything I can think of, like holistic views, like chemical views, this." Like, everything. I mean, spending money out of my pocket trying to figure this out, 'cause none of this is covered by the UFC, especially because it ... you know, not something I claimed in a fight. I mean, I fought Amanda, and if you don't claim that stuff within the 30 days, like, you're on your own. And of course my head hurt, of course I'm dizzy, of course lights are bright, of course I can't think right. I got in a fistfight, you know, and I, I wasn't doing good in it for a while, so I, I figured, you know. But then a month and a half, two months out when I wasn't better, it's like ...

    6. JRJoe Rogan51:30

       So even though it clearly came-

    7. CZCat Zingano51:32

       (clears throat)

    8. JRJoe Rogan51:32

       ... from that fight, you still don't get covered?

    9. CZCat Zingano51:34

       Mm-mm.

    10. JRJoe Rogan51:35

        What?

    11. CZCat Zingano51:36

        No. Well, and it's endocrine stuff too, you know. And it's like there's very ... there's, like, m-

    12. JRJoe Rogan51:41

        How could they dispute that that's where it came from though? You go, "Hey, sit down. I want you to watch something," and just play that first round. Go, "What the fuck do you think happened?"

    13. CZCat Zingano51:51

        Yeah, I don't know.

    14. JRJoe Rogan51:52

        But I mean, if you play that video for them, if anybody in the insurance business was denying you coverage, saying it didn't happen d- while you were under the banner of the UFC, like, you're outta your fucking mind. Watch that video. What do you think is happening? Well, this fucking assassin is throwing bombs at your face. I mean, that's ... that is crazy that that's not covered.

    15. CZCat Zingano52:14

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan52:15

        That makes me sick.

    17. CZCat Zingano52:16

        Oh, it's frustrating, 'cause it ... by, by ... Like, literally you, you look at the papers, like, it cost me more to fight than-

    18. JRJoe Rogan52:23

        Well-

    19. CZCat Zingano52:23

        ... than it ... than I make.

    20. JRJoe Rogan52:24

        L- listen-

    21. CZCat Zingano52:25

        You know?

    22. JRJoe Rogan52:25

        ... it might make sense if it was dealing with a broken hand or a torn ligament or something like that. It might make sense. It might. It does not make any fucking sense if you're talking about brain injuries.

    23. CZCat Zingano52:35

        But I mean-

    24. JRJoe Rogan52:35

        'Cause anybody who understands how brain injuries work know that there's, there's a considerable amount of time after a fight where you still are suffering from symptoms, and you might decide 30 days later, 60 days later, 90 days later, you gotta do something about it.

    25. CZCat Zingano52:49

        Right. Well, I mean, now I know.

    26. JRJoe Rogan52:50

        Yeah.

    27. CZCat Zingano52:51

        Now I, I come out of a fight and I'm like, "My pinky hurts, my elbow hurts, my hair hurts-"

    28. JRJoe Rogan52:55

        Right. (laughs)

    29. CZCat Zingano52:55

        "... my eyebrow hurts." Like, "We're-"

    30. JRJoe Rogan52:57

        Yeah.
14. 53:58 – 1:26:58

    What recovery felt like: getting timing, patterns, and ‘the chess’ back

    1. CZCat Zingano53:58

       So the first ... I, I would say the first thing I noticed was my motor skills in practice. So, you know, I would go, uh ...

    2. JRJoe Rogan54:07

       So you think your motor skills were impaired-

    3. CZCat Zingano54:08

       No, I ... Well, I just feel-

    4. JRJoe Rogan54:10

       ... before then?

    5. CZCat Zingano54:10

       ... like I had a block. Like I said, like, i- it's ... it was comical, and, I mean, you can even ask them at Alliance, and it, it was funny. It was funny, but not. To have ... Like, we're in class, you know, we're learning. I'm watching the coaches. Like, they do a drill and they explain it and it ... they look up, "All right, everybody ready? Ready, one, two, three, go," and we clap, and I have no fucking idea what we're doing. You know? Like, we walk off and I'm like ... Like, there was even a couple times where they ... like, they clap and they're like, "Cat, what are we doing?" And I'm like, "Um, three kick?" And they're like, "No, 20 push-ups." And I'm like, man, I'm not even ... (laughs) like, I'm not just a bad kid, like, talking-

    6. JRJoe Rogan54:51

       (laughs)

    7. CZCat Zingano54:51

       ... and, like, not listening. Like, I'm in trouble because I'm-

    8. JRJoe Rogan54:53

       Right.

    9. CZCat Zingano54:54

       ... I'm ... I don't hear you. Like, I don't-

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:55

        Right.

    11. CZCat Zingano54:55

        I- I can, like, not lose eye contact the whole time, like, sit here and I'm, like, focused.

    12. JRJoe Rogan55:00

        But it's not going in.

    13. CZCat Zingano55:01

        But, no, I'm not retaining it. Unless the ... Like, if ... It has to be the last thing that they do. Like, we can't talk about shit. (laughs) If, if, if it's the last thing I see, I can go do it. Or I could go do it. But if they're like, "All right," and then they explain some philosophy about it or, or do some movement or whatever, like, then I lose what we're doing. Like, my, my mind will just go right to something else. Like, I had a very hard time concentrating. And-You know, it's, it's crazy because when I got to this facility, you know, I didn't know... I didn't necessarily know what I was walking into, but they have you do this questionnaire. And, like, on this questionnaire is, like, all of these things. I'm like, "That's part of something." Like me not being able to focus, that's part of something. My sleep, that's part of something. This startle effect is part of something. Like me having these, like, completely, like, specific things that are all on this was like, "Damn, okay." Like I didn't even wanna see the EEG because I was, I was scared, you know? I was like-

    14. JRJoe Rogan55:54

        Yeah.

    15. CZCat Zingano55:55

        ... "What if you can't fix me and now I know all the shit that's wrong with me?" Like that's-

    16. JRJoe Rogan55:58

        Right.

    17. CZCat Zingano55:58

        ... that sucks. But then, you know, they show you different EEGs and they show you the... They take it every single week, and so you actually get to see it and you get to see the level that you were functioning at, especially the different parts of your brain. But then... And the thing is that's awesome about this is you get to keep the results. Like unless you go do exactly what you did and go fuck it up again, like you get to keep it. It's not like... This maintenance package, which is, you know, a problem for these pharmaceutical companies, there's, there's, there's not a whole lot of retention on it because once people get their brains functioning, as long as you're not sitting there hitting your head against a wall, like you get to keep feeling better. Like these, these veterans get to go back to, to combat or, or whatever it is their job is. Like we fighters get to go back. Football players get to go back. Like I, I sat in with the Chargers, uh, medical staff and talked about our stuff there as well. I, I, I don't even remember who else. There was people from all over the, the country coming and asking about this... you know, and, and needing-

    18. JRJoe Rogan56:58

        Yeah.

    19. CZCat Zingano56:59

        ... to sit in and, and they're looking at these EEGs in particular.

    20. JRJoe Rogan57:02

        So, what is it doing? Like how is it fixing you?

    21. CZCat Zingano57:06

        So one, um, I think it... You know, there's something with what goes on in your brain with, with the thyroid stuff, with the endocrine stuff is like getting your damage to your hypothalamus, right? And that's like... Uh, that, that kinda directs all of the information that goes to your thyroid. Your thyroid, you know, then sends out everything to your body and there, when there's like a disconnect there, um, you know, it just, it screws everything up. And, and then on top of it, like, now that we're cutting the same weight we've always had to cut but we don't get IVs and we... I mean, you, you cannot 100% rehydrate your brain within 45 or 48 hours. Like you can get your body decently hydrated, I believe, but your brain is just... It's its own thing, you know? And so now we don't have IVs, our, our hydraulic system in our brain is down, and now we're rattling it even more, like dehydrated. I mean, we're just gonna have, you know, bigger side effects to, to our brains being dehydrated with that. Now, um, the damage that comes to the hypothalamus, to the pituitary, to the, um, your thyroid, all of that that goes on there, like that... They're, they're saying that you can, you can get it firing back at a level that it was before it got hurt. Like as long as the cells are still alive in it, they can re-energize those cells. Now if you have like just a dead part of your brain, you know, they're not bringing it back to life, but they can, um, use these magnets to kind of fluff them back up, give them back their energy, their, their life and, and put in, uh... Put them in, back into a functional way that was something similar to you at your healthiest and, and make it m-... I mean, not more or less durable, just back.

    22. JRJoe Rogan58:48

        Right.

    23. CZCat Zingano58:48

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan58:48

        Now when you-

    25. CZCat Zingano58:49

        (clears throat)

    26. JRJoe Rogan58:49

        ... when you were saying motor skills, like what was wro-... 'Cause it's one of the things that they see in fighters that have taken too many shots. They start having... They analyze fighter's gates.

    27. CZCat Zingano59:00

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan59:00

        And one of the things that happens is your legs get closer together.

    29. CZCat Zingano59:03

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JRJoe Rogan59:04

        Um, your, your balance is off. Your, your steps are shorter. You don't have that sort of like dynamic-

Episode duration: 2:32:04