JRE MMA Show #30 with Sean O'Malley & Tim Welch

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 0:00 Sugar.

Joe Rogan 0:09 Three, two, one. (hand slaps) And we're live. Sugar Sean and, uh, Tim Welch, your friend-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 0:18 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:18 ... that you brought with you here today.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 0:19 Friend, teammate, coach, brother.

Joe Rogan 0:21 Both of you from Montana. Montana people, it's good, it's a good place.

Tim Welch 0:25 Yeah, it is. But for what we do, it's not the best place. (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 0:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:28 Yeah, how much training can you get in Montana? It's not, not the best spot. Like, when I was there, uh, two years ago, pheasant hunting with Anthony Bourdain, and that guy is such a maniac. He trains everywhere he goes every day, and he found some club, some local jujitsu club in Montana, in Bozeman, and was rolling with people.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 0:47 Brian Dietz probably.

Tim Welch 0:47 Yeah, Bozeman's probably one of the better places to train, but the one thing good about being from Montana is when we were in Phoenix, it's like a big process getting a fight. Sugar, how many amateur fights you have?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 0:57 Yeah, I had 14 MMA fights, uh, amateur MMA fights, four kickboxing, couple boxing. It was every weekend. I could-

Joe Rogan 1:05 In Montana?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:06 ... fight every weekend. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06 So Montana people are just angry, just wanna (smacks lips) fight.

Tim Welch 1:09 You can-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:09 We just like to fight.

Joe Rogan 1:10 They're just mad.

Tim Welch 1:10 You can sign up that week and fight, so you can get-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:12 (sighs)

Tim Welch 1:13 ... a ton of fights-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:14 No commission.

Tim Welch 1:15 ... no commission.

Joe Rogan 1:15 No commission? Oh, that's good.

Tim Welch 1:17 So you can fight.

Joe Rogan 1:17 So it's a manly place, that Montana.

Tim Welch 1:18 (laughs) Yeah, it is.

Joe Rogan 1:20 It is. It's quite manly. I mean, you guys have grizzly bears and shit, lots of elk.

Tim Welch 1:23 Oh, yeah. (laughs) Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:23 Elk, grizzly bears, wolves, you know. I was there, uh, two summers ago, I went, and just was like, "Man, I need to figure out a way how to spend more time here." I was in Bozeman.

Tim Welch 1:33 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:33 And fuck, man-

Tim Welch 1:34 Nice, huh?

Joe Rogan 1:34 ... it's beautiful.

Tim Welch 1:35 Hell, yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36 It's fucking stunning.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:38 Yeah, I definitely wanna... I enjoy being away from there right now, just 'cause I grew up there.

Joe Rogan 1:42 Right.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:42 Um, being in Phoenix is like... I wouldn't, I don't wanna be anywhere else. I love being in Phoenix. The training there is insane.

Tim Welch 1:48 Yeah, where we're at, Phoenix is like the fucking Mecca, man. Like, we get to train with Augusto Mendes, Tiquinho every day. Like, he beat Rafa Mendes. He beat Cabrinho. He beat-

Joe Rogan 1:57 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 1:57 ... Ryan Hall. He's-

Joe Rogan 1:58 Yeah.

Tim Welch 1:58 ... beat all these people. And almost every mile, there's a really good gym, like boxing gym, jujitsu gym, wrestling gym. Henry Cejudo-

Joe Rogan 2:04 Right.

Tim Welch 2:05 ... has a club there. The MMA Lab with Jon Crouch, like, where we train-

Joe Rogan 2:08 Yeah.

Tim Welch 2:08 ... there's killers everywhere.

Joe Rogan 2:10 Yeah, that's one of the best spots in the world for sure. Phoenix is, uh... There's a few hotbeds for MMA. Obviously, LA is a big one. Miami's a big one. Phoenix is a fucking huge one too, though.

Tim Welch 2:21 Yeah. Yeah, the Lab, like, (sighs) it's, it's a different type of gym than a lot of other gyms. I haven't seen many gyms, like, stay together, and I think a big reason is 'cause of Jon Crouch. He's, like, one of the best facilitators out there. He keeps everyone together. If you don't show up to practice, he'll text you and say, "Hey, where you at? We gotta get our priorities straight." And like-

Joe Rogan 2:36 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 2:37 ... he really holds everyone accountable, and I think that's why it makes it a really good, strong place.

Joe Rogan 2:41 Yeah, he's one of my favorite coaches. He's, uh, he's just a super no-nonsense guy, never blows his own horn, not looking for any attention, and absolutely knows his shit. Like, when you hear him in the corner, he knows his shit.

Tim Welch 2:54 Yeah, he's good to have there in the corner, man. He just, uh, be the leader kind of of everything and look over everything. And like he brought up Benson from when he was a small, like just starting-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 3:06 Just beginning, yeah.

Tim Welch 3:06 ... so it's like we're lucky to be able to learn after that. And then be around Benson in the room, like, he- he's got a work ethic like no other, like there's no other.

Joe Rogan 3:12 Is Benson still joining the military? I heard he was thinking about joining the military.

Tim Welch 3:17 I think he's too old now.

Joe Rogan 3:19 Is he?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 3:19 Does he?

Tim Welch 3:19 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 3:19 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 3:20 He's too old. He's 34.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 3:21 I think so. I remember hearing about that too.

Joe Rogan 3:22 How old... What is the limit? I thought you could join the military, like, up to, like, 36 or some shit.

Guest (third participant, likely in-studio friend/producer) 3:27 I feel like once you get across a certain age, they have to make an exception for you.

Joe Rogan 3:31 Oh.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 3:31 I'm sure he would make that exception. (laughs)

Guest (third participant, likely in-studio friend/producer) 3:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 3:33 He's in- he's an animal.

Guest (third participant, likely in-studio friend/producer) 3:34 That's a fucking beast. Yeah.

Tim Welch 3:35 Yeah. So we're lucky to be around him. Like, the work eth- ethic he brings in the room is like no other. Like, two-and-two wrestling drilling, I, I feel like he'd break any man on this planet.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 3:45 Sheep.

Guest (third participant, likely in-studio friend/producer) 3:45 (laughs)

Tim Welch 3:45 Like he's-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 3:45 He's an animal.

Tim Welch 3:46 ... he'll put the pace on you, and it's, it's pretty cool to learn from. We're lucky to see it every day.

Joe Rogan 3:50 Yeah, I mean, that is one of the most important qua- like, there's a bunch of important qualities in a fighter, right? Um, being able to perform under pressure, uh, creativity. Creativity is big. I think that's one of the way- places that you excel. You really excel in creativity. Like, when I watch you fight, I'm like, "This kid's fucking around out there." Like, you're having fun. You- you're flowing. You know, when you were telling me today, we were, uh, doing a little practicing. You were saying that you were doing some stuff in fights where you just thought of it. Like, while-

Tim Welch 4:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:19 ... you were doing it, you just felt like doing it. Like, there's people that can do that, and there's people that never do that.

Tim Welch 4:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:25 You know, when they're in the fight, they're tightened up, and they're fucking sticking to the script and maybe even sticking to, like, the real basics, you know?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 4:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:31 Like, barely even speaking in sentences.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 4:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:34 You know what I mean?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 4:34 I think, I think a lot of people think too much when they're in there, and it's easier to say... Um, I feel like when I'm in there, I'm reacting. I'm letting my, letting my, all my training take over. I'm not really thinking. I'm just reacting to what they're doing, and I think that helps me do what I've been doing is just reacting to certain situations. And I just feel like I'm gonna step ahead of them. Whoever I'm fighting, I feel like I'm a step ahead of them.

Tim Welch 4:58 He's really good at, like, the greater the chaos, the calmer he becomes, and that's the-

Joe Rogan 5:02 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 5:02 ... that's the truth. The bigger, the brighter the lights are, the more he's shining and completely calm. And before that last fight against, uh, Andre, we watched probably four of Conor's fights right before we walked to-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 5:14 Oh, yeah.

Tim Welch 5:14 ... the arena. And Sugar's sitting there zoning in on those fights, watching the way he walks out, watching the way he's good with his energy, smart with his energy. And, uh, you can really see it in the fight, the way he mimics him. And Sugar can watch someone s- someone do something, and he can do it right away. It's a really cool talent.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 5:29 Yeah, before the last couple fights, um, before we go to the arena, we just throw on Fight Pass, watch Conor, watch him walk out, watch, just watch him, his body language. And Conor's... He's the man. I love Conor. I've always loved Conor since, since wa- like, I remember watching his first fight against... What was his first, like, Max Holloway? Was that his first one in the UFC?

Joe Rogan 5:48 In the UFC, yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 5:49 Remember watching him, and I'm like, "That dude's gonna be good."

Joe Rogan 5:51 I think that was his first fight. He blew his ACL out in that fight.

Tim Welch 5:54 Yep.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 5:54 Maybe that wasn't his first. Maybe it-

Joe Rogan 5:55 I don't think it was.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 5:56 ... was it Brimage? No.

Joe Rogan 5:57 Might have been Marcus Brimage.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 5:59 Was it?

Joe Rogan 5:59 Yeah.

Tim Welch 5:59 I think that's what it was.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:00 Brimage?

Joe Rogan 6:00 Was it?

Tim Welch 6:00 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:00 He stopped, he stopped Brimage, and then he blew his ACL out, I wanna say, in the first round against Holloway.

Tim Welch 6:05 That's right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:05 And he started-... controlling him on the ground and taking him down. But that was a very young Max Holloway too, you know. You're dealing with Holloway when I think he was like 20 or something like that.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:13 Serio- yeah, he was young.

Joe Rogan 6:15 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:15 He was-

Joe Rogan 6:15 Super, super young.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:16 He's a beast.

Joe Rogan 6:17 Fuck, he's a beast.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:17 Max is a ... He's cool.

Joe Rogan 6:18 He's-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:18 I remember he came down to the lab once. I didn't re- ... We just kind of played around, sparred, but he's ... I'm, I'm excited for that. He's fighting Ortega next.

Joe Rogan 6:24 Mm-hmm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:24 July 7th, yeah?

Joe Rogan 6:25 Yes. Very, I'm very excited about that.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:27 I'm hoping I get in, get, get in there. I hope we can get some tickets. That's gonna be sweet.

Joe Rogan 6:30 Yeah. Dude, I'll hook you up.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 6:32 (sighs) oh my God.

Joe Rogan 6:32 He's, he's fascinating to me, uh, Max, because he's just this guy that like, I knew he was really good, and then he just kept getting better, and kept getting better. I'm like, "Where's the ceiling on this guy?" And then you saw in the Aldo fight, when he beat Aldo the first time, and then the second time. And the second time, you're like, "Jesus Christ." Like, you, you, you really don't know how good a guy is. Like, you see them in a fight and you go, "Wow, he's really good." But then you don't see him for a while and you're like, "Is he better? Has he slipped? Is he, is he training hard?" Like, where is he at?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:03 Like, you don't know until you see him again. And then when I saw him in that second Aldo fight, I'm like, "Jesus, he's so much better than he was before."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:10 He, he yelled at the end of the first round, he looked over at us and he goes, "The man's tired!"

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:16 Like, at the end of the first round. I was like, "Jesus."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:19 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 7:20 He was hit- ... And Aldo was throwing bricks at him. He was really throwing hard in that first round to try to like, establish-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:26 Did he catch him?

Joe Rogan 7:26 ... some distance.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:27 At all?

Joe Rogan 7:27 He hit him with some shots, but he-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:29 I think rock-

Joe Rogan 7:29 I mean, he hits hard, but he didn't rock him. You know, Aldo-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:31 How many times has Max lost?

Joe Rogan 7:33 He's only lo- ... Well, in the UFC, um, he lost to Dennis Bermudez.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:39 Conor.

Joe Rogan 7:39 Somewhere early in his career. He lost to Conor. I think he only has two or three losses in his career. Three?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:46 Three.

Joe Rogan 7:46 Three losses. Who are they to? Does it say?

Tim Welch 7:48 And Dustin Poirier.

Joe Rogan 7:49 Dustin Poirier.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:50 Oh, Poirier beat him.

Joe Rogan 7:50 When did he lose to Dustin?

Tim Welch 7:51 I think it's the first one, 2012.

Joe Rogan 7:53 Oh, man. Okay.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:54 Poirier's good.

Joe Rogan 7:54 He's very good.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:54 I love watching his fight.

Joe Rogan 7:55 He's very good.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 7:55 That fight against Gathegi, I was ... I watched it live. That was-

Joe Rogan 7:59 Woo, that was crazy.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 8:00 He's a good ... I thought that was kinda gonna how, how that was gonna go. He was gonna out-box him. He was throwing some good combos.

Joe Rogan 8:06 Justin's leg kicks are a motherfucker, but he-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 8:08 Oh.

Joe Rogan 8:09 ... takes too many shots. He's just-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 8:10 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 8:10 He's so intent on breaking people and just keeping that pressure on you that ... I mean, he's a fucking really good wrestler.

Tim Welch 8:17 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:17 And you never see any of it in his fights.

Tim Welch 8:19 I think he posted something that he's gonna kinda switch up the game plan a little bit.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 8:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:22 Did he say that?

Tim Welch 8:23 Yeah, I think he did. But then he also said he might only have five more fights left if he keeps-

Joe Rogan 8:27 Well, if he fights that way, yeah.

Tim Welch 8:29 ... fighting that style. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:29 I mean, he's just the ... He's just fucking chaos.

Tim Welch 8:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:33 It's just, he's a berserker. But it's so fun to watch him. It's like, you don't wanna say anything to him.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 8:37 Pure entertainment.

Joe Rogan 8:38 You know?

Tim Welch 8:38 For real.

Joe Rogan 8:38 I mean, fuck, yeah. He's ... The Eddie Alvarez fight and the Dustin Poirier fight, but they're so similar in a way that he like almost gets the guy with his leg kicks. Almost breaks him with those leg kicks, and then he got caught. But it worked in the Michael Johnson fight. So it's like, when you see it in the Michael Johnson fight, when you see like Johnson's leg just starting to give out.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 8:58 Mm-hmm. We watched Luis p- ... Watched him fight Luis Palomino in uh, LFA.

Joe Rogan 9:02 Mm-hmm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 9:02 Was it LFA?

Joe Rogan 9:03 It was uh-

Tim Welch 9:04 World Series.

Joe Rogan 9:04 ... World Series back then.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 9:05 That's right. We watched that. His ... (exhales) He's gnarly to watch live.

Joe Rogan 9:08 And he kicks low from real close, man.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 9:11 Generates a lot of power.

Joe Rogan 9:12 Yeah, he's like e- ... Literally tying up with you and he's chopping down with low kicks.

Tim Welch 9:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:16 He's got real loose hips with that, you know?

Tim Welch 9:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:19 He's able to really bend his body and chop down.

Tim Welch 9:22 Nice, tight, high guard waiting for him to come in.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Mm-hmm. Yeah. (exhales) He fucks people's legs up, man.

Tim Welch 9:27 He does.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 9:27 Yeah, he's tough for shit.

Joe Rogan 9:28 Yeah.

Tim Welch 9:28 It's crazy when you see guys like that, like when they start to get beat, you wonder if they're gonna start ... Use those losses as informative or demor-

Joe Rogan 9:35 Right.

Tim Welch 9:35 ... demoralizing, start defining themselves and then start questioning themselves. That's why with Sugar in training and in a fight, even in training, like he'll find the toughest guys to go with, and he won't go with those guys and be like, "Oh, they're better than me," and start defining himself. He'll just use it as informative-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 9:49 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 9:49 ... and learn from it. So it's like, it's another good mentality.

Joe Rogan 9:52 Yeah.

Tim Welch 9:52 He has super positive, good mentality and I think a lot of that comes from eating good and having the right rest and r- hydrating, and eating good year round.

Joe Rogan 10:00 Right.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 10:00 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 10:00 Not just eating good during fight camps and blowing up and-

Joe Rogan 10:03 Yeah.

Tim Welch 10:03 ... I think that's a lot to do with it.

Joe Rogan 10:04 For sure.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 10:04 Living that lifestyle, just eating healthy, like you said, all year round, not just getting healthy for six weeks and then eating like shit after and getting injured. Uh, once I f- really started learning about eating healthy, a ton of small little injuries went away.

Joe Rogan 10:19 Mm, my back would hurt every morning because I- What were you doing wrong before? Like what were you eating?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 10:23 Pop Tarts.

Joe Rogan 10:24 Oh, sugar.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 10:24 Like fucking just anything shitty-

Joe Rogan 10:26 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 10:27 I don't know. Hot Pockets.

Joe Rogan 10:28 Right.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 10:28 Top Ramen, any, all of that stuff that I was just raised eating, you know. And once I started realizing what that stuff's doing to my body and how I could feel it-

Joe Rogan 10:36 Mm-hmm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 10:36 ... it changed, changed my whole mindset. W- and r- likek, eating healthy was one of the biggest things that improved my skills e- as a fighter, I feel like, just m- as far as my mental thoughts. Um, my training sessions were so much better.

Joe Rogan 10:52 Were you just saying that you eat a lot of sardines?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 10:54 (laughs) No, I said I ate some sardines last night and then I had uh, some this morning.

Joe Rogan 10:57 That is a very good food.

Tim Welch 10:59 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 11:00 (laughs)

Tim Welch 11:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:00 Believe it or not. I mean ...

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 11:00 I know they are, yeah.

Tim Welch 11:01 Dude, we're so, so lucky to have the internet and podcasts and be able to learn from guys like you-

Joe Rogan 11:06 (sighs)

Tim Welch 11:06 ... Dr. Andy Galpin, like Aubrey Marcus.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 11:09 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 11:09 Tim Ferriss, like-

Joe Rogan 11:11 Chris Kresser, are you ever listening to some of the episodes with Chris Kresser?

Tim Welch 11:14 Good listener.

Joe Rogan 11:15 Fantastic on information, uh, fantastic information on nutrition, you know. And there's so many guys like that. Rob Wolf, you know, so many people that are like at the cutting edge of performance and diet and ... And Rob Wolf is interesting too because he, he experiments himself on a, with his own body quite a bit and-

Tim Welch 11:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:31 ... talks about it online. And he's getting f- really heavily into jujitsu right now, and-

Tim Welch 11:36 Nice.

Joe Rogan 11:36 ... he does a lot... I mean, he's, he's really interesting too because he does a lot of, uh, ketogenic stuff, but really adds way more carbs on jujitsu days. And um, I had Zach Bitter on. Uh, Zach won the, uh, he wo- ... Was it the American record for 24 hours? It was the American record for running 24 hou- ... The most amount of miles in 24 hours. Um, he-

Tim Welch 12:00 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 12:00 ... he's, yeah. He's a fucking beast. I-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 12:02 How many did he run?

Joe Rogan 12:03 Um, what did he run? Like ...

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 12:04 He ran 24 hours straight?

Tim Welch 12:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:06 What?

Tim Welch 12:07 ... yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 12:07 A full day of running?

Tim Welch 12:08 That-

Joe Rogan 12:08 Yeah.

Tim Welch 12:09 ... that's where we're trying to find the balance, though. Like, we're eating a lo-

Joe Rogan 12:11 Oh, you don't wanna do that.

Tim Welch 12:12 On days that we're not training, we're doing... We're trying to do keto, so we're just-

Joe Rogan 12:15 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 12:15 ... keeping the inflammation down in our body, but it's-

Joe Rogan 12:17 Well, this Bitter guy that I was gonna say. He, uh, d- he's a full keto guy. He's, uh, he mostly eats meat, but on days when he has... There it is. He broke the US 100-mile record. That's what it was.

Tim Welch 12:29 (gasps)

Joe Rogan 12:29 Seven minutes per mile for 12 hours. That's-

Tim Welch 12:32 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 12:32 ... that's the record.

Tim Welch 12:33 That's insane.

Joe Rogan 12:33 That's right.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 12:34 What a badass.

Joe Rogan 12:35 Oh, he's a, he's a fucking savage, man.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 12:37 I wonder what his mental thoughts are running. W- once he's done.

Joe Rogan 12:39 I don't know.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 12:39 I wonder if he's just, just in the, in the now just going.

Joe Rogan 12:41 He's got to be in a trance. But, um, he, on days where he's running, he way ramps up his carbs. So like, you know, the average person's trying to keep their carbs within like 50 grams or 75 grams to stay keto. You gotta recognize that for extreme requirements, like physical activity, ramp that shit up. So, Rob... I was gonna say that Rob Wolf is really experimenting a lot with that. You can follow him on Instagram. He's big up on that.

Tim Welch 13:07 Yeah, like, and m- we listen to a lot of Ben Greenfield too, so it's like-

Joe Rogan 13:10 Oh, he's fantastic.

Tim Welch 13:11 ... when we're not training-

Joe Rogan 13:11 Yeah.

Tim Welch 13:11 ... we're listening to you guys.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 13:12 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 13:13 It's like we're treating you guys like a college.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 13:15 Yeah.

Tim Welch 13:15 Like, your guys is our college, and then we're going to our jiu jitsu, learning from Takeo, going to learn from John Crouch, and like, I don't know. I feel like we're on a really good track, especially for sugar.

Joe Rogan 13:24 Now, how do you guys know each other? How'd you guys meet?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 13:26 Ooh, good story. Go ahead.

Tim Welch 13:28 I, uh, I was going to commentate, uh, I was with Bellator at the time and going back to Montana to commentate for some fights. And, uh, Sean-

Joe Rogan 13:35 What were you doing for Bellator?

Tim Welch 13:36 Fighting for them. Yeah. And I went to commentate some local fights up there, and I saw Sean and he was s-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 13:43 I was 18.

Tim Welch 13:43 ... 18 at the time, and I saw him. I was like, "Damn, that kid..." Submitted a, a wrestler in the first round, and I knew at his gym he doesn't wrestle. I'm like, "That kid's got some good talent." So I invited him down after I went up to him and I said, "Hey, dude. You can stay on my couch for a little bit and come check out the gym." Kind of figured he wouldn't. And, uh-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 13:59 I, I remember, I remember the... He told me that. I was so jacked 'cause I knew Tim. I seen him on TV. I did- I didn't meet him in person, but I seen him on Bellator. He was on the Fight Master show. And, uh, after my fight, I... We were at the Sting Bar, like a local bar, and he came up to me and s- he, he offered me that. I remember. I think I called you the next day. I'm like, "Hey, dude. Yeah, I wanna come down." Um, we figured it out. I think I came down a few weeks later, months later. Um, I came down for 10 days, and it was the m- like one of the most... The biggest ass whooping I've ever got in my life. I remember...

Tim Welch 14:27 When we were driving from the airport, he was talking. He's like, "Yeah, me and you are going to the top." I'm like, "This kid has no idea what he's about to get himself into, taking him to the pro practices with all the people." 'Cause as soon as you get on the team, everyone fucking hammers on you.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 14:39 Of course.

Tim Welch 14:39 They hammers on you. They beat you. They break you down mentally to see if you're gonna come back.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 14:42 So I was, I was there for a full week. So Monday was striking day, Tuesday is wrestling. I literally did not know how to wrestle. I didn't know what a single leg was. Did not know anything about wrestling.

Joe Rogan 14:51 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 14:51 Um, I remember d- a good group of people just whooped me bad. I remember crying, leaving practice. It was night.

Joe Rogan 14:56 Did you wrestle in high school at all?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 14:57 No.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Nothing?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 14:58 Nothing.

Joe Rogan 14:59 W- and you... What part of Montana are you from?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 15:01 Helena, the capital. Um, but yeah, I never... I... So I boxed a little bit, but I never, never wrestled. Didn't really grapple. I remember I knew one arm... I knew an arm bar off my back. It was the only thing I knew, and that's what I caught that wrestler in. I, I got him in an arm bar. I surprised... I didn't even... I was like, "Holy shit, I just did that." But anyway, I came down, got beat up bad for a week. Um, went back sa- went back to Montana. Um, saved up $2,000, packed my car, drove down. He was living with his girlfriend at the time. Um, we stayed there for two weeks, and then we got an apartment. Um, and I, I'd only known Tim a little bit, but we got an apartment close to the lab, and I just literally went every single day, twice a day.

Tim Welch 15:43 When he first showed up, he like... I was gonna s- I smoked some weed the night, and he was so taken back. He's like, "Holy shit." He looked up to me, couldn't believe that I was doing that drug.

Joe Rogan 15:52 That you smoked weed? (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 15:53 My dad-

Tim Welch 15:53 Couldn't fucking believe it.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 15:53 ... my dad's a detective in, in Montana.

Joe Rogan 15:56 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 15:56 And I just... I was raised like weed's not good, not good. Like, that's what was going through my mind. I thought it was bad, like really bad.

Tim Welch 16:03 We'd have debates about it too.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 16:04 And I remember I came... Oh yeah, I remember I came down-

Joe Rogan 16:05 Montana's one of the few places that went backwards with weed.

Tim Welch 16:08 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 16:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:08 They had medical marijuana in Montana, and now they're removing it. They're removing all the stores. When I was there, they were like... They were having some sort of a closeout sale 'cause they were, they were getting shut down. I don't know if that's since been amended or fixed.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 16:22 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 16:22 But-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 16:23 That sucks, though. It... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:25 (laughs)

Tim Welch 16:25 And when he, when he moved in, when he moved in, uh, I was like, "Okay, this kid's fucking pissing me off. He's not picking up his shit. He's not, not doing his dishes. He eats like shit."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 16:33 My mom did all that for me.

Tim Welch 16:34 And I'm like, "Okay." I either could get pissed off and kick him out, but then I realized, I'm like, "He doesn't even know. He doesn't even know." So I'm gonna work with him, I'm gonna try to treat him like my little brother and help him. And he was willing to, like, kind of follow along, and then he started slowly starting to eat better, started to eat spinach, and then his back problem started to go away. And, um...

Joe Rogan 16:52 What kind of back problem did you say?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 16:53 I just... My back would always hurt. It was always inflamed, always. I don't know what it was. I just, I...

Joe Rogan 16:58 Did you get it looked at?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 16:59 I remember getting it looked at. My mom-

Joe Rogan 17:00 Lower, lower back?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 17:01 It was, it was, it was nothing. It was literally from eating shitty food. It was c- uh, just all the inflammation from all the shitty food I was eating, and I didn't know that at the time. I remember my mom took me in there and like, "Oh, your back's fine." But it was... It hurt so bad always. I started eating more anti-inflammatories. I started making shakes with spinach and almond milk and blueberries and chia seeds. I started eating healthier, and I'd slowly noticed like, "Oh, I feel better." I started... So I started getting more into eating healthier. I remember just recently, um, I ate a vegan diet for six months, and the people on Instagram hate me now that I don't eat the vegan diet anymore. I get messages-

Joe Rogan 17:34 Yeah, when you go off vegan diet, man, that's like when you become a m- a Muslim apostate.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 17:39 Seriously. I...

Joe Rogan 17:40 They want, they want death to you.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 17:41 Yeah, 'cause I've been posting pics... Like, I posted a picture of... I got this, um, grass-fed beef jerky from Whole Foods yesterday. Got probably 30, 40 messages. "Why aren't you vegan anymore?" I don't... Or just m- Like, people, th- they, they're mad at me for not eating-

Joe Rogan 17:54 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 17:54 ... vegan diet anymore. But I, I, I always say, like, I ate that vegan diet for six months, but I did... I incorporated eggs into it 'cause I just couldn't... I wasn't eating enough, but I never, I never felt bad. I didn't feel worse. I just didn't feel...... great. Once I started eating good quality meat again, I felt my energy levels. I'd wake up, I'd, my energy levels were way higher. I just felt more aggressive. I felt m- more, like, manly. Um, so-

Joe Rogan 18:18 V- vegans right now are getting angry.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 18:19 In the-

Joe Rogan 18:19 The contender?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 18:20 Sorry, vegans. I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 18:20 Triggered. Oh, yeah.

Tim Welch 18:21 In the c-

Joe Rogan 18:22 Ah! We had 'em.

Tim Welch 18:22 In the Contender S-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 18:23 I know. You lost me.

Joe Rogan 18:24 The Contender Series fight, he weighed 138 pounds. He was a vegan at that time.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 18:28 I walked-

Joe Rogan 18:29 Sickly-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 18:30 Well-

Joe Rogan 18:30 ... just, like, skinny.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 18:31 ... there's more to that too than the just vegan diet. I had a concussion, a bad concussion three weeks out from that fight against Alfred in the Contender Series. I remember waking up in the middle of the night puking. Um, I couldn't train. F- um, and I remember I even woke up with a little headache going into the fight.

Joe Rogan 18:45 Do you remember what it was from?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 18:47 Um, yeah, it was from sparring. I got hit hard, boom, and I remembered. I'm like, "Fuck." But I knew this was a huge opportunity. Um, I liked the matchup. I knew I just had to go out there and perform. But yeah, I was ... I weighed in at 136 and I walked into the cage at 138. Like, I was ... it wa- ... and you can even look, go back. I look, go back and look at that video, and I look just unhealthy. But it all worked. Yeah, I just, I was so skinny. I was like 138 pounds right there.

Joe Rogan 19:13 Yeah. (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 19:13 But I still dropped his ass.

Joe Rogan 19:14 Then-

Tim Welch 19:16 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 19:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:16 (laughs)

Tim Welch 19:17 Two weeks later, we went, uh, to hang out with our buddy, uh, Scott Holtzman in the UFC for a UFC Fresno, and, uh, Dr. Andy Galpin was with him for the week. And I knew Sugar was with me. He watched What the Health-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 19:27 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 19:27 ... and w- ... that's what turned him vegan, so I made sure to ask Dr. Andy in front of Sugar, I said, "How much would Sean benefit from eating, like, elk or, uh, grass-fed meat twice a week?" He's like, "Fucking hugely. Hugely." And then Sean right there made the decision, "I'm gonna start eating some meat."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 19:41 I'm like, "If this guy is telling me ... if this ... if he's this smart and he's telling me that some good quality meat's gonna benefit me, I would be stupid to not take him up on that and, and, and do that." So, and I don't regret it. I feel so good eating meat again. I feel way stronger.

Joe Rogan 19:57 It's hard when you see those documentary ... and also you get a lot of positive reinforcement from other vegans that are very happy-

Tim Welch 20:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:03 ... that you're vegan.

Tim Welch 20:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:04 They love that you joined the team. And look, people wanna be healthy, and for the most part, eating vegetables is very healthy. The problem is we ... there's a lotta nutrients that you're gonna really have to search for if you're eat- just eating plants. And it's ... the protein is not as bioavailable. The amino acids are not as bioavailable. It's very hard to get vitamin B without supplementation.

Tim Welch 20:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:25 There's a lotta shit that you're just not gonna get, and the, like, bang for your buck in terms of, like, the amount of nutrients that you get in, like, a small grass-fed steak-

Tim Welch 20:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:35 ... versus a big plate of broccoli, it's just not the same. And they don't wanna admit it, and a lot of these people, like those ... I think those What the Health guys, I had them on when they did Cowspiracy. I think they mean well, but they are fucking true believers. And they, they are not trying to put together a documentary that states all the facts objectively. They're doing a vegan propaganda film.

Tim Welch 20:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:55 And on it, debunked a shitload of the things. We had an, uh, uh, actual nutritionists analyze what they were saying, go over the studies, and they debunked a shitload of what they put in that film. That film is a propaganda film, and it gets a lot of people thinking, "This is the way to go. It's gonna reverse heart disease and help your body and ..." But they get so many things wrong. D- b- meat does not cause diabetes. Like, this is nonsense. Like, they, when they do these studies with people, especially, like, um, studies that they do on people that show that people that eat meat more than five times a week have a higher instances of heart disease, all these different things, they don't measure what else they eat.

Tim Welch 21:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:34 These people that are eating meat all the time are eating fries and shakes and soda, and you're not s- n- analyzing someone who eats sauteed spinach in olive oil and a piece of grass-fed beef or bison or r- or e- elk or something like that. No, you're, you're getting some assholes eating Jack in the Box.

Tim Welch 21:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:52 Like, yeah, that stuff's terrible for you. It's fucking sugar and refined carbohydrates and nonsense and trans fats. All that stuff's terrible for you. If there's, there's no studies that show that eating clean, like people have eaten for thousands of years ... I mean, if ... literally, if meat caused cancer, 97% of the planet would have cancer. And that's the, that's th- the numbers that eat meat on a regular basis. It's, like, 95-plus percent.

Tim Welch 22:17 Fuck. And then those people, like, that are vegans, they're like, "Oh, I'm gonna s- try a vegan diet," and then they're eating all these veggies, getting these nutrients that they didn't get before, and they're like, "I feel fucking great."

Joe Rogan 22:25 Yeah.

Tim Welch 22:25 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:26 Get off that bullshit diet. You stop eating Jack in the Box ... sorry, Jack in the Box-

Tim Welch 22:30 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 22:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:30 ... in the middle of the night, sometimes I do go to us for comfort.

Tim Welch 22:33 Don't do it. Fuck.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 22:33 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:33 It's not, it's not Jack in the Box. It's just fast food-

Tim Welch 22:36 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 22:36 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 22:36 ... shitty food, processed food. You know, that's what the problem is. It's, like, people ... Like you were saying, like, ramen. I, I like ramen every now and then. Fuck, it tastes good, but it's not good for you. It's just-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 22:46 I couldn't eat it. Yeah. Just, like, knowing what that, what that, what it does to your body, knowing-

Joe Rogan 22:50 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 22:50 ... that you are what you eat, it's ... I can't, I can't cheat. I can't do it. If I know that's not gonna benefit my body, I can't eat it. It's hard for me to.

Joe Rogan 22:58 You are what you eat.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 22:59 Like, 100%, and I think-

Joe Rogan 23:00 It's so simple, you know. It's such a, it's some- such a simple phrase, but literally your body-

Tim Welch 23:05 So true.

Joe Rogan 23:05 ... is made out of what you eat.

Tim Welch 23:07 God, and that mouth pleasure.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 23:09 Oh, I know. For real.

Tim Welch 23:10 Fucking mouth pleasure, dude.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 23:11 Especially when you're high.

Joe Rogan 23:11 Godamn, man.

Tim Welch 23:13 It's like, "Fuck, mmm."

Joe Rogan 23:13 Ice cream sundae with hot fudge.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 23:14 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 23:15 Woo!

Tim Welch 23:15 (laughs) Fuck. Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 23:16 It's good. It's good.

Joe Rogan 23:16 (laughs) It's so terrible for you.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 23:17 But there's so m- there's all these healthy ... you can, you can replace all of that-

Tim Welch 23:21 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 23:21 ... with healthy stuff.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Yeah, I haven't had any keto ice cream, but I've heard good things. Some people have said that there, there are some stevia-sweetened or xylitol-sweetened keto ice creams that doesn't fuck with your body.

Tim Welch 23:32 Hmm, nice. That new Halo top has that coconut, sweetened coconut milk and stevia. That's pretty tasty.

Joe Rogan 23:37 Yeah.

Tim Welch 23:37 I might try that.

Joe Rogan 23:37 Well, there's, there's stuff that you can eat that is good, and of course fruit, you know, eating healthy fruit. I mean, look, man, a nice, delicious ripe peach is about as fucking good as any bullshit-

Tim Welch 23:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:49 ... fucking fake dessert-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 23:50 Seriously, man.

Joe Rogan 23:50 ... that you're gonna get anywhere.

Tim Welch 23:51 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 23:52 It's just we don't appreciate it because we think of it as being, like, a healthy choice, so it doesn't ... you don't get that "I'm being a naughty boy" reward-

Tim Welch 23:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:59 ... that you get from-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 24:00 Man.

Joe Rogan 24:00 ... you know-

Tim Welch 24:01 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 24:01 ... having a banana split or something.

Tim Welch 24:02 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 24:04 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 24:04 (laughs)

Tim Welch 24:04 God, it's just not worth it. It fucks your-

Joe Rogan 24:06 It's not.

Tim Welch 24:06 ... whole night of sleep up.

Joe Rogan 24:07 Yup.

Tim Welch 24:07 It fucks your blood sugar up.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Yup.

Tim Welch 24:09 And that's the thing that it's crazy that most people don't know. They're like, "God, I just eaten, and now I'm, uh, tired, and then I just get starving again." They just don't know about those blood sugar fucking ... (imitates pumping chest)

Joe Rogan 24:18 Yeah, the insulin spikes, and I had a regular Coke the other day, like, uh-

Tim Welch 24:22 Damn it, bro.

Joe Rogan 24:22 ... a couple weeks ago, for the first time in years.

Tim Welch 24:25 How come?

Joe Rogan 24:26 ... oh, just whatever, it was there. I said, "I haven't had a Coke in forever. Let me have a Coke." And, uh, it was, it was, I was just like, it was just like drinking m- syrup.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 24:34 Ugh.

Tim Welch 24:34 Oh.

Joe Rogan 24:35 Like this sugary... It was like felt thick when it was... when I was chugging it down. It was... I was like, "God."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 24:41 Did it hurt your stomach?

Joe Rogan 24:42 No. No, but I did feel like shit after the... after it was down. I was like, "Whoa."

Tim Welch 24:47 Oof.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 24:47 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 24:47 I feel terrible. But how many people drink those fucking things every day? Every day.

Tim Welch 24:51 Mm. First thing.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 24:52 42, 34 ouncers or whatever, 32 ouncers pop.

Tim Welch 24:55 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:55 Fuck.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 24:55 It's hard... It's hard 'cause it's who you're surrounded with too.

Tim Welch 24:57 Mm-hmm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 24:58 Like fuck, dude, if you're surrounded with everyone, like, "Oh, come on, pussy. Just have a good time. Enjoy your life."

Tim Welch 25:02 Right.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 25:02 You're like, "Fuck it."

Tim Welch 25:03 Right.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 25:03 And then you're like... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:04 Exactly. Exactly.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 25:04 That's, that's something like who... Like it's such a common thing. You are who you surround yourself with. But people don't... I don't know. It's like I'm so lucky that when I... I was surrounding myself with Tim. Like he, he introduced me to eating healthy. I remember when I was 19, I moved to the lab. Every day we have pro practice Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday. Every day, I was going to the coffee shop and reading Mind Gym books, ment- like all these mental books. And we were doing it together. We were reading, constantly improving each other, wanting to get better, wanting to help each other improve. And that's... It was so important for me to... You are who you surround yourself with, and I see people not surrounding themselves with the, the best people they can be around, and...

Joe Rogan 25:45 It's a trap. Yeah, it's a terrible trap. And sometimes those people that are not the best people are really fun to be around. (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 25:50 That's the problem. That's, that's, that's a distraction.

Tim Welch 25:53 Yeah, having a hell of a time. Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 25:53 It's like what's keeping you back from wanting to be the very... Like I wanna be the best bantamweight in the world. Like what's keeping people back from wanting to be the best of them? And it's just distractions, people who are fun to be around, alcohol, you know, even women, like certain food is like distractions of what's keeping you back from wanting to be the best you.

Joe Rogan 26:09 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 26:10 It's all just... Our brains are crazy. Our brains are nuts.

Joe Rogan 26:14 Yeah. I mean, just... Well, you gotta think about just what you do for a living. I mean, just that alone is crazy, right?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 26:20 True.

Joe Rogan 26:20 The, the desire to be a professional fighter, the d- desire to fucking kick people in the head and choke them and have them try to do it to you, and that this is what excites you.

Tim Welch 26:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:29 And that this is what's driving you to go to the gym and to improve constantly. Uh, I mean, that alone is crazy, you know. And then these other people that are living their lives, and drinking too much, and smoking too much, and eating shitty foods, and, you know, they... That's their path, you know. They're... But their path is not compatible with your path. That's the big key.

Tim Welch 26:50 I like how Kyle Kingsbury said like, uh, like there's gonna be some point in your life that health's your main priority. (laughs) There's gonna be some point when you're old and you have a disease, or it could be now. But I was lucky enough to like... When I was 20 and 21 learning these things, I moved in with Robert Fallis and got to live with him for a while.

Joe Rogan 27:05 Oh, wow.

Tim Welch 27:05 And I was like, "Damn, this motherfucker's got bookshelves of books." Super smart. And I'm like, "Why is he eating all that... Why does he go to this Trader Joe's place?" So I started going to Trader Joe's, and I'm like... Robert Fallis would always say, he's like, "How much do you train your mind? We train jujitsu, we train wrestling, we train all this. How much do you sit there and train your mind?" And I was like, "Fuck." So I just started reading books and started reading about eating healthy. And super lucky to learn and be around that guy. He was probably one of the biggest influences in my life, 'cause I was raised Jehovah's Witness my whole life, and he was raised a Jehovah's Witness his whole life. And I carried a lot of fucking guilt for not being in the, like, religion/cult. And he's like, "Dude, you're not a good person 'cause of that religion." He's like, "You're a good person 'cause you're a fucking good person." And then just started telling me to read and do your own research. "Don't listen to these people. Do your own fucking research." Learned a lot from that guy, and I got to pass it on to Sugar.

Joe Rogan 27:56 He was a gem. I really, really loved that guy. Such a great guy to be around. I mean, I didn't know him enough. W- you know, really when he died, it bummed me out so much. I was like, "Goddamn, I should have spent more time with that guy."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 28:07 Fuck. Isn't that crazy? I was gonna say... I only got to meet him... I only met him like three or four times. But every time I was around him, I was like, it was cool 'cause he taught Tim so much, and I could learn... I'd seen like that's where he learned it all from. Like, Robert's a smart dude. And the way he-

Joe Rogan 28:19 Yeah, that's why it was such a bummer, you know, that a guy like that would want to end his own life. Like how, how is that possible that someone was so loved and respected and appreciated? It really just highlights, you know, the, the real issues that people who have mental illness and depression are going through, you know. It's like it's not, it's not obvious to people on the outside.

Tim Welch 28:39 Yeah, and I think-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 28:39 You never know what someone's ... You just never know how someone's feeling or thinking.

Tim Welch 28:42 I think his brother committed suicide, and I think that's what made him start, like, maybe getting into pills or alcohol and stuff. But it was weird 'cause he would always have... be the one that, uh, answer for you to what are your problems. He had the perfect answer, super intelligent. So it kind of freaked me out. I'm like, "Man, I want to... I want my life to be like that guy. I want to be like him when I grow up." And when that happened, I was like, "Fuck, man." I couldn't believe it.

Joe Rogan 29:02 How did you get out of Jehovah's Witness?

Tim Welch 29:05 Uh, my parents got divorced in eighth grade. My mom moved to Canada and was still a Jehovah's Witness, and, uh, I lived with her for a while, and I just was super trapped, couldn't hang out with anyone, couldn't do any sports. And I was like, "Fuck, I have to make a decision, go with my dad and get out of the cult." And all the elders were like, "Don't do that. That's a mistake. That's a mistake." But I made decisions-

Joe Rogan 29:25 Elders? They have elders too, just like the Mormons?

Tim Welch 29:26 Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I, and I made the decision, I'm gonna go move with my dad and move back to Montana. And then my dad was super into UFC, so I started wrestling and boxing when I was 14, and then on from there.

Joe Rogan 29:36 My, uh, one of my wife's... Well, how do I put this without... This person I know was heavily into Mormonism, and, uh, they, they had people come over to their house that were elders, and the kid was 20. And he's like, "This is Elder Mike." I'm like, "The fuck it is."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 29:54 (laughs) Elder Mike. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:55 (laughs) Like, "What are you talking about? Elder?"

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 29:58 Elder Mike.

Tim Welch 29:58 "You're 20, dude." And... (laughs) I'm like-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:01 Go out there and get some pussy. (laughs) You're 20.

Tim Welch 30:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:04 That is, that is so preposterous, you fucker.

Tim Welch 30:06 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 30:07 You know, and they were, um, they were going, uh, to other countries as missionaries, you know, getting these people-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:14 Riding their bikes around.

Joe Rogan 30:15 ... South America and, you know, going up to them and saying, "Hey, you know, come join the cult."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:20 I remember my dad was watching UFC when I was... I had to have been 12 or 13, and I thought it was the w-... I was like-... I, I remember telling my mom that he was watching. I told on him, like, that he's watching two guys fight. I thought it was the craziest thing ever. I hated it.

Joe Rogan 30:34 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:34 I did not like confrontation.

Joe Rogan 30:35 How old were you?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:35 Like, 12, 13 years old. And I, I remember literally telling on my dad that he was watching-

Joe Rogan 30:40 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:42 ... the UFC.

Joe Rogan 30:42 (groans)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:42 It's funny looking back on that.

Joe Rogan 30:44 That's hilarious.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:45 Yeah, it was funny, though.

Joe Rogan 30:46 Wow. Do you remember who was fighting?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:47 I don't. I member he, he... I remember Chuck and Tito and then Urijah, Urijah Faber. Those are the three guys, like, I remember-

Joe Rogan 30:53 Their names?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:54 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:56 Do you believe they're gonna fight again?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 30:57 A- Are they getting it on again?

Joe Rogan 30:59 No way. Chuck and Tito are supposed-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:00 Bullshit.

Joe Rogan 31:00 ... to be fighting again.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:01 When?

Joe Rogan 31:01 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:01 When? This year? Next year?

Joe Rogan 31:03 (puffs) Who knows? It's for Oscar De La Hoya's-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:05 ... burgeoning MMA promotion.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:07 Tell me you're not gonna watch, though.

Joe Rogan 31:09 I will-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:10 (laughs) Front row.

Joe Rogan 31:11 You'll be tuning in, baby. (laughs)

Tim Welch 31:12 Yeah, you fucking got me, man.

Joe Rogan 31:14 Yeah.

Tim Welch 31:14 You got me. I mean, I probably will have to watch, unfortunately.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:16 I'm sure Bellator didn't pick that up.

Joe Rogan 31:17 I don't think Bellator wants it.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:19 I think Bellator's cautious. You know, I know Bellator was talking to Chuck, but, you know, I mean, Dana White said it best. There's a reason I asked him to retire 10 years ago.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:30 Fuck.

Tim Welch 31:30 Oh, 10 years. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:31 10 years ago.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:32 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 31:32 I mean, look, man, there's number... Here it is.

Tim Welch 31:34 There it is.

Joe Rogan 31:34 "Tito Ortiz announces he's coming out of retirement for Chuck Liddell trilogy." Is that today?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:38 Uh, a lot.

Tim Welch 31:39 May 11th, so like a month ago.

Joe Rogan 31:40 Oh, okay. Yeah, it's happening, man. It's happening.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:44 Damn.

Tim Welch 31:44 Hell yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:44 I wonder how their training camps are gonna go. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:46 Oof.

Tim Welch 31:46 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 31:47 It's gonna-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:47 I bet they're gonna be hurting.

Joe Rogan 31:48 Get a lot of MRIs.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:50 (laughs)

Tim Welch 31:50 Seriously. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:50 One, two sessions a week.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 31:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:52 It's just... (laughs) Well, Tito r- is in remarkably good shape, believe it or not.

Tim Welch 31:57 Is he?

Joe Rogan 31:57 He's had a significant number of back injuries. But other than the Chuck Liddell fights, he really didn't take a lot of head shots.

Tim Welch 32:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:05 You know? Didn't really take a lot of head trauma, you know?

Tim Welch 32:08 That's true.

Joe Rogan 32:09 Tito's a tough motherfucker, man. He's been, he's been around a long-ass time and y- when he fought Chuck, the gap in striking was just so large. You know, Tito was always a, a competent striker. You know, he was a strong guy and a great wrestler, and his ground and pound were some of the best. I mean-

Tim Welch 32:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:27 ... Tito was one of those guys that never bothered passing the guard. He was like, "Fuck you-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 32:31 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:31 ... and fuck your guard."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 32:32 Team Quest style.

Joe Rogan 32:33 "I'm gonna get on top of you and smash you." And there was nobody catching Tito Ortiz in triangles. Get the fuck outta here with that.

Tim Welch 32:40 No way.

Joe Rogan 32:40 You were getting elbowed and punched in the face. He was phenomenal at that.

Tim Welch 32:43 He was.

Joe Rogan 32:44 But his standup could not hang with Chuck. Chuck... When you think of Chuck's standup, like, it was never, like... (puffs) Like, it was beautiful in a lot of ways 'cause the knockouts were spectacular, but it was, there was... It was not sneaky. You know what I'm saying?

Tim Welch 33:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:00 There was no artistry to it. There was no feints or sw- there's no, like, TJ Dillashaw-style movement-

Tim Welch 33:07 Nothing.

Joe Rogan 33:07 ... or Dominic Cruz or... It was just attack!

Tim Welch 33:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:11 Viking. (screams)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 33:12 Power forward. (laughs)

Tim Welch 33:14 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Just smash people and skillful. Don't get me wrong. It was very... I mean, look, he, he fucked up a lot of really good guys with solid technique, but it was just so overtly aggressive. Like, his style was so aggressive that that style just caught up with him.

Tim Welch 33:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:32 I mean, he's got... He was in so many wars, man. I mean, just so many fucking crazy wars.

Tim Welch 33:38 It's weird the confidence, like, you see, like... It's so good, I feel like, when someone knocks people out early on in their career and they're like, "Oh, shit, man."

Joe Rogan 33:45 You can do it.

Tim Welch 33:46 "If I, if I fucking touch this guy-

Joe Rogan 33:47 (laughs)

Tim Welch 33:47 ... he's gonna fall."

Joe Rogan 33:48 Right.

Tim Welch 33:48 Sugar's knocked someone out with every limb on his body.

Joe Rogan 33:51 (laughs)

Tim Welch 33:51 So, it's like he knows he can touch this guy with any limb and what they do, they fucking fall over. And I think a lot of people-

Joe Rogan 33:58 That's a good feeling.

Tim Welch 33:58 ... late in their career, they never knock someone out, so they don't believe that at all. And I feel like you can see that big time in fights.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 34:04 Or a wrestler knocks someone out for the first time and then they're like, "Oh-"

Tim Welch 34:07 Addicted.

Joe Rogan 34:07 Right.

Tim Welch 34:08 Johnny Hendricks style.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 34:09 "... okay, I can knock someone out."

Joe Rogan 34:09 Right. Well, Hendricks, for a while, had some magic power in his hands.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 34:15 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 34:15 It was weird.

Tim Welch 34:16 Fuck, dude.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 34:16 Knocked out-

Joe Rogan 34:17 What is weird is that it went away. It didn't make any sense. If you see, like, his fight with Martin Kampmann or his fight with Fitch or a lot of the guys he fought, he would just fucking one touch these guys and they would fly across the cage like he had magic in his hands.

Tim Welch 34:32 (laughs) Oh, fuck.

Joe Rogan 34:33 Dude, Hendricks for a while... I mean, I don't know if he got injured, if his shoulder got fucked up, if he couldn't throw the way he used to be able to throw. Whatever it was, USADA, whatever it was-

Tim Welch 34:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:43 ... whatever got him, whatever got him, he ju- motivation, time, just father time, whatever it was. But goddamn, it just went away and then he became not a dangerous striker. It's so weird.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 34:56 Yeah, it is weird.

Joe Rogan 34:57 It's fucking weird. And that's another thing, like, whether it's USADA or was it, whether they're using those losses as informative or demoralizing.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 35:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:04 Well, we all know, everyone who has been around gyms knows things that have not been published.

Tim Welch 35:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:10 We know people that have not been caught, but we've seen them dip significantly when they had to go off a cycle because they were going to a place where they were gonna get tested regularly. We've all seen it.

Tim Welch 35:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:21 And it's... These are stories that, like, you hesitate, like, should the general public understand what the real risks are? 'Cause these fighters that go to... You, say you go to some place like Rizin and they're like, "Hey, g- go crazy. We don't give a f- we don't give a fuck. Old school pride. Go crazy. We don't give a fuck." But then when those guys come over and try to compete in the UFC, and the UFC is like, "Okay, fill out this paperwork. G- you know, give us your whereabouts. You gotta sign in everywhere you go." And then they start showing up and someone like Holly Holm's been tested, like, 19 times. They just show up, "Knock, knock. Here, time to pee. You know, let's, let's check your blood. Let's see what's going on in your body. I'll make sure you're not doing anything stupid. All right, go back to sleep."

Tim Welch 36:01 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:01 I mean, you, if you come from this place where you're allowed to cheat basically and you're doing it all the time, which we all know a lot of organizations allow that to happen, and then you try to come over to the UFC, you're gonna see depression. You're gonna see lethargy. You're gonna see people that they're just... they're, they're, they're in a dour mood all the time. They're always sad.

Tim Welch 36:23 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 36:23 Their body's broken down. You see they, they shrink. You start seeing all this loose-

Tim Welch 36:28 Sads.

Joe Rogan 36:28 ... excess skin. Their arms, uh, th- they're not defined anymore.

Tim Welch 36:32 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 36:32 It's fucking horrible. But they want to fight and they wanna make the money.

Tim Welch 36:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:35 You know? "Hey, it's, it's 30 and 30 if I win." You know, maybe-

Tim Welch 36:38 Take the money.

Joe Rogan 36:39 ... yeah, maybe I can go to Guatemala and hide out and-

Tim Welch 36:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:41 ... and do D-ball for six weeks."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 36:42 God, a lot of fighters too, it's like, what defines them?

Joe Rogan 36:45 (laughs)

Tim Welch 36:45 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 36:45 It's fucking what defines them. That's all they got. That's all they, they-

Joe Rogan 36:48 All they have.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 36:48 ... they're known for their whole life. Like-

Joe Rogan 36:50 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 36:50 ... "Oh, he's the fighter. When's your next fight? When's your next fight?" And then if you don't fight for a couple of months, you got people like, I broke my jaw my last fight. Constantly people asking, "So when are you fighting? Hey, you done fighting? Are you done fighting?" It's like, "Fuck, dude."

Joe Rogan 37:01 How long ago was that?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 37:02 In August. Fucking first punch of the fight. (smacks hands) Boom.

Tim Welch 37:04 Broke it clean. Still went into that second round and I was trying to finish him.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 37:09 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 37:09 Trying to put him away, 'cause I knew if I win one more, I'll get back in the UFC. So that was a tough one. But, uh-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 37:15 Yeah.

Tim Welch 37:15 ... it, it forced me to meditate. It forced me... I had my jaw wired fucking tight shut for eight weeks and I couldn't talk 'cause my TMJ joint-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 37:22 (laughs)

Tim Welch 37:22 ... would flare up so I'd have a, like, bad headache. So I'd have to sit in my chair and I'm like, "Okay, I have to do this." So I just read, started meditating, and I'm like, "Dude, there's some-"

Joe Rogan 37:32 How do you eat?

Tim Welch 37:33 You just suck liquid through your teeth.

Joe Rogan 37:36 (laughs) Oof.

Tim Welch 37:37 Every day.

Joe Rogan 37:37 That is-

Tim Welch 37:38 All day.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 37:38 I remember when I hurt my foot, I was like... We were in the ambulance going to the... Or after that, I was going to the hospital and I remember thinking, "This could be worse. I could have my mouth hanging off of me." And the thing is-

Joe Rogan 37:48 Yeah, it happens, man.

Tim Welch 37:49 ... the ER guy... There was no one in the ER and they were like, "You need to let the inflammation go down." So I had to g- go two days and drive to another city with it hanging off. But like I said, I wouldn't trade it.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 37:59 (clears throat)

Tim Welch 37:59 I wouldn't take it away 'cause I started meditating and I talk... Now Sugar's meditating and, man, we've gotten so much fucking benefits from that. It's crazy. Even though we're doped on it.

Joe Rogan 38:07 Yeah. I do it in the tank.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:09 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 38:10 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:10 Meditating in the tank-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:11 Do you have one in your house?

Joe Rogan 38:12 I have one right here.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:12 Here? Oh, that's so sweet.

Tim Welch 38:14 Sweet.

Joe Rogan 38:14 But it's-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:14 That is so sweet.

Joe Rogan 38:14 ... such a fucking benefit, man.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:16 That is so sweet.

Joe Rogan 38:17 For me, it's like when the world gets weird... And the world... My world's weird as fuck, man.

Tim Welch 38:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:22 You know, I try to explain it to people and I'm like-

Tim Welch 38:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:23 ... "It's weird being me."

Tim Welch 38:24 I bet.

Joe Rogan 38:25 You know? And to, to be able to just take some time and just go, just look at it all through fresh eyes. Like, that's the place for me.

Tim Welch 38:32 Hell yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:32 Get in that tank.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:33 Do an hour about? Or just-

Joe Rogan 38:35 I like an hour, but I do two if I have the time. I like two hours.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:38 A two-hour session would be...

Joe Rogan 38:39 Yeah. But then having it here-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:41 God, and then you can-

Joe Rogan 38:41 ... is what it's all about.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:42 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 38:42 So I can just do it anytime I want.

Tim Welch 38:44 Hell yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:44 Like, I wake up at 3:00 in the morning and just drive over here.

Tim Welch 38:46 Sweet.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 38:47 You... What, what's your morning routine like? Or do you have a morning routine that you like or do you just kind of...

Joe Rogan 38:51 Fasted cardio (sighs) is what I like to do, or fasted yoga. That's my, my most recent thing is I'm doing either 14 to 16 hours depending upon what my day looks like.

Tim Welch 39:01 Nice.

Joe Rogan 39:01 So I'm intermittent fasting. And then, uh, I usually either like yoga or running in the morning. Today was running. And then I'll do something in the afternoon, either martial arts related or weightlifting related.

Tim Welch 39:14 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:14 Do you, uh, do drink coffee every morning? Like when you... Right when you wake up or...

Joe Rogan 39:17 Not always, but I like it.

Tim Welch 39:18 All right.

Joe Rogan 39:18 I like these things, these nitros, these Caveman Nitros.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:21 Nitros? Oh, you do?

Joe Rogan 39:21 But I like regular coffee too, but I drink water with Himalayan salt in it too.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:25 And the lemon?

Joe Rogan 39:25 That's one of the first things. Yeah, I put a little lemon in there too sometimes.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:28 Do that every morning?

Joe Rogan 39:29 Sometimes I throw a little cayenne pepper in that motherfucker.

Tim Welch 39:32 Ooh.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:32 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 39:32 Wow!

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:32 Any apple cider ever been your...

Joe Rogan 39:34 I do that stuff sometimes too.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:35 Nice.

Joe Rogan 39:35 I take a lot of probiotics.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:37 Those are the bomb.

Joe Rogan 39:38 Uh, a lot of... I eat a lot of kimchi. I, I find, like, kimchi and game meat is like... I've been on this kick for the past three or four months-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:44 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 39:44 ... where I just eat kimchi and elk, like, three, four times a week.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:48 God.

Joe Rogan 39:48 I mean, it's nice stuff.

Tim Welch 39:49 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:49 Dude, it's hard. When you eat some elk-

Tim Welch 39:51 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:51 ... before bed and you wake up hard as a rock-

Joe Rogan 39:53 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:53 ... wanting to fuck people up too.

Tim Welch 39:54 To your rock.

Joe Rogan 39:55 You're like, "What the fuck?"

Tim Welch 39:56 Wow.

Joe Rogan 39:56 People don't know, man. They don't know.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 39:57 Dude. Oh.

Joe Rogan 39:58 You're eating a super athlete. If you eat elk, you're eat... You're literally eating a super athlete, you know?

Tim Welch 40:03 Oh, that's badass.

Joe Rogan 40:04 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 40:04 That's like a hu- like another reason, not just, uh, Dr. Andy, but listening to you, you talk about it. I listen to your podcast all the time talking about how, how beneficial eating those kind of meats are. And I'm just like, "God, I gotta do it." And I just... I feel, I feel so much better doing it.

Joe Rogan 40:18 Well, if you think about, like, how healthy it is to eat salmon, like a healthy wild salmon, that is a, an animal that's out there hustling. You know, a salmon making its way upriver.

Tim Welch 40:30 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 40:30 You eat one of those things that's just loaded with nutrients and essential fats. And when you eat an elk, man, you're eating an animal that's getting away from wolves and bears and fighting to the death with swords growing out of its head.

Tim Welch 40:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:44 I mean, literally it's a forest horse with fucking spears growing out of its head.

Tim Welch 40:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:49 And they're just out there hustling-

Tim Welch 40:51 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 40:51 ... all day. You know, living out in Montana in the winter, in the middle of the fucking winter.

Tim Welch 40:56 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 40:56 Running from wolves and shit. I mean, that's their life. You eat one of those things, you eat it, it's like (gasps) .

Tim Welch 41:01 What the fuck?

Joe Rogan 41:02 You get charged up. You're like (screams) .

Tim Welch 41:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:05 It feels... I've given it to-

Tim Welch 41:06 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 41:06 ... people who have never eaten it before and they're like, "Holy shit."

Tim Welch 41:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:09 I'm like, "Yeah, you feel different, right?" You feel like you-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 41:12 You're eating their G-

Joe Rogan 41:12 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 41:13 ... their DNA.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Yes.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 41:14 Now, do you ever... Do you listen to Paul Chek?

Joe Rogan 41:16 (smacks lips) Paul Chek. He's the Jeet Kune Do guy, right? Isn't he?

Tim Welch 41:19 No, he's been on Aubrey's and stuff. He's a-

Joe Rogan 41:21 No, I'm thinking of Paul Vernack.

Tim Welch 41:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:23 I'm thinking of a different guy. Yeah, I have listened to Paul Chek. I listened to him on Aubrey's podcast.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 41:27 He's a, he's amazing. Yeah, he's awesome.

Tim Welch 41:29 Yeah. Fuck, he's a wizard, man.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 41:30 He was explaining how, uh, um, pasture-raised eggs versus just regular eggs, how we're literally eating the DNA of that chicken. And it wa-... He... I don't remember what exactly he said, but it w-... Blew my mind. I was just like... He's awesome. He would... That'd be sweet. That'd be a good podcast doing him. That would be sweet.

Joe Rogan 41:45 Yeah, I'd have him on for sure, man.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 41:46 That would be so sweet.

Joe Rogan 41:48 Yeah, chickens, they love to eat bugs and worms and grass and they r- love to roam around. And if they are allowed to do that, they get a dark, like an orange yolk-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 41:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:59 ... that you just don't get from those goddamn grocery store egg chickens. Those grocery store chickens are prisoners.

Tim Welch 42:04 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 42:04 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 42:04 So you're getting little prisoner eggs.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 42:06 You're eating that.

Joe Rogan 42:06 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 42:06 Putting it into your body. You're-

Joe Rogan 42:08 I mean, it's better than nothing, but it's nothing like a farm-raised free-ranging chicken egg. And you could get those-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 42:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:15 ... at farmer's markets and stuff like that. Like, but you could tell the moment you crack them open.

Tim Welch 42:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:20 I mean, it's just orange like the sun, you know? It's-

Tim Welch 42:23 You take care of your chickens?

Joe Rogan 42:24 Yeah, yeah. I have... I have chickens on my yard.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 42:26 God, that's so sweet.

Tim Welch 42:26 Are they a pain?

Joe Rogan 42:26 What's that?

Tim Welch 42:26 Are they a pain?

Joe Rogan 42:28 It's not the easiest thing-

Tim Welch 42:29 Really?

Joe Rogan 42:30 ... you know? Yeah, you gotta clean the shit and you gotta make sure they have enough food. And for me, I got a squirrel problem.

Tim Welch 42:35 Uh-huh.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 42:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:36 My w- my wife wants to kill the fucking squirrels. Me, I'm like, "They're cute."

Tim Welch 42:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:39 Little, little fellas running about.

Tim Welch 42:40 Is it?

Joe Rogan 42:40 But they steal all the food. They're fat fucking squirrels-

Tim Welch 42:43 Oh.

Joe Rogan 42:43 ... 'cause they keep figuring out a way to get into the chicken coop and get all the chicken food. And they're just in there all the time. But now I might have to put them to death-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 42:51 Cool.

Joe Rogan 42:51 ... because I found out they've been stealing eggs. The squirrels have now figured out that they can get eggs, and so a squirrel-

Tim Welch 42:56 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 42:57 ... was trying to roll an egg out of the chicken coop (whooshing sound) through the hole that he comes in. We caught him-

Tim Welch 43:02 You caught him?

Joe Rogan 43:02 ... doing that. I didn't catch him.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:03 (laughs) Damn.

Joe Rogan 43:04 I didn't catch him.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:05 Smart little fuckers.

Tim Welch 43:05 How are you gonna get him?

Joe Rogan 43:05 Smart little fucker. I don't know, man. I don't know.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:09 I bet it feels good sh- I've never b- I've never hunted. And, uh, I bet it feels good shooting and then eating the meat you get.

Joe Rogan 43:15 It does.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:16 I've, I, I'm nervous, though, 'cause I feel like I would feel so guilty shooting an animal.

Joe Rogan 43:20 You will.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:21 I remember I shot a bird when I was-

Joe Rogan 43:22 There, little fucker. Look at him. He's got an egg. Little cunt.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:23 Oh, that was... That's yours?

Tim Welch 43:25 No, it's not.

Joe Rogan 43:26 No.

Tim Welch 43:26 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:26 Oh.

Joe Rogan 43:26 Look, pull, pull that back, Jamie. 'Cause I had no idea that squirrels did this. I had to find out in my own yard.

Tim Welch 43:32 Trying to put-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:32 These little fuck faces.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:33 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 43:34 They're egg stealers, bro. They, they... How do they know?

Tim Welch 43:36 They're cute as fuck, though. (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:37 How do they know? They're so cute.

Tim Welch 43:38 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 43:39 They're so cute.

Tim Welch 43:39 So cute.

Joe Rogan 43:40 How do they know? They fucking know-

Tim Welch 43:42 That chick's like, you little bitch.

Joe Rogan 43:42 ... how to get eggs.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:44 Little motherfucker. Yeah, the chickens-

Tim Welch 43:46 I bet they'll feel if I could.

Joe Rogan 43:46 ... chickens don't know what to do.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 43:48 Damn.

Tim Welch 43:48 Oh, it's funny to me.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Yeah. Squirrels are s- they're not smart, but they're determined. I think I might have to run a fucking arrow through a few of them.

Tim Welch 43:55 (laughs) Yeah, I think so.

Joe Rogan 43:56 But I don't want to kill the squirrels.

Tim Welch 43:58 That's the thing, the problem.

Joe Rogan 43:59 See, it's like, I don't want them eating my eggs, but I also don't wanna kill them. So I don't know what to do.

Tim Welch 44:05 (sighs) I know, it's like they have one life.

Joe Rogan 44:06 I keep figuring out a way to block off their holes, but they keep opening new holes.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 44:11 Fuck.

Tim Welch 44:11 That's what this guy did. He made a protector box or something.

Joe Rogan 44:14 Oh.

Tim Welch 44:14 I don't know if it worked, but-

Joe Rogan 44:15 Interesting.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 44:15 Mm-hmm.

Tim Welch 44:15 Just like my bro- my brother says, though, man. If you, if you're hunting and you're, you're a really good shot, you're gonna put that thing away and it didn't even know it died. It lived a great life.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 44:25 I hear-

Tim Welch 44:25 Boom. It's done. And you're eating its meat, like-

Joe Rogan 44:27 Yeah, but listen, man, that's best case scenario.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 44:30 ... something's off with that.

Tim Welch 44:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:31 But here's the thing, though. They don't live forever anyway, and the way they die in the wild, by getting torn apart by wolves or coyotes or mountain lions is way worse-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 44:39 That's true.

Joe Rogan 44:40 ... than a bullet or an arrow, you know? I mean, the life of an elk is a quick life. If you're lu- like... Not that one, but the one... That one's probably only like f- f- maybe five years old.

Tim Welch 44:53 Holy sh-

Joe Rogan 44:53 But the one outside, the big one over by the-

Tim Welch 44:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:56 ... mats? That one's about nine years old. That's about as old as you're gonna... If you find, like, a 10, 11-year-old elk, holy shit, that guy's lived forever and their teeth are all worn down and-

Tim Welch 45:06 Damn.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 45:06 Wow, I didn't even know.

Joe Rogan 45:07 And...

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 45:07 I didn't know that. I had no idea.

Joe Rogan 45:08 Yeah, they don't live very long, you know? It's a hustle and they're, they're out there just fighting for their life and trying to get by. Most of the time, they're just grazing, but they'll look up and they'll see a wolf or something and it's like, "Fuck, it's on, man."

Tim Welch 45:22 (gasps)

Joe Rogan 45:22 I have some friends that live in Idaho, and you know, Idah- Idaho has a considerable wolf population, and they went on this scouting trip and when they were up in the hills, they kept finding w- well, they found four dead really large bull elk that were torn apart by wolves o- over the course of, like, a 10-mile hike. They found four of them laying there dead, torn apart by wolves.

Tim Welch 45:47 Fuck, man.

Joe Rogan 45:47 And they're like, "Holy shit." Like, "This is crazy." So the wolves will eat part of it, leave it there. I mean, it's cold as shit where they are. They don't have to worry about the meat going bad.

Tim Welch 45:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:56 So they'll kill it, tear it apart, and then they'll find another one, and they'll... Their instinct is to go after the next one. They don't, they don't, like, just kill one and say, "We got enough food. We'll eat this until we're full and then when we get hungry, we'll hunt another one."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 46:08 Damn, they're hunters.

Joe Rogan 46:09 Yeah, they're, they do what's called, um-

Tim Welch 46:12 Sheesh.

Joe Rogan 46:12 ... th- the... What, what do they call it? It's not, like, it's... They don't... I don't, don't call it sport hunting. There's a word for it when they kill, like, they, they... It's w- was it Wyoming? What was that one crazy story in Wyoming? They killed 19 elk and didn't even eat them.

Tim Welch 46:26 What?

Joe Rogan 46:27 Yeah, they-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 46:27 And they do it for fun?

Joe Rogan 46:28 No, they don't do it for fun. They can't help themselves. It's like-

Tim Welch 46:32 Surplus killing.

Joe Rogan 46:32 ... surplus killing.

Tim Welch 46:33 Sheesh.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 46:34 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 46:34 They just n- they know they can get away with it, so they just do it. And then they'll, they'll cache them. Yeah, look at this.

Tim Welch 46:40 I saw that movie.

Joe Rogan 46:40 19 elk. They, they, they recovered all of them-

Tim Welch 46:43 Savage little dudes.

Joe Rogan 46:43 ... and stacked them.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 46:44 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 46:44 They're not little either, bro.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 46:46 Big dudes.

Tim Welch 46:46 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 46:47 These are the ones they brought down from Canada, too, the wolves. They brought them down in the '90s to repopulate Yellowstone because we had eradicated wolves from most of the Western states.

Tim Welch 46:56 Did you see that animal they just found in Montana and they don't even know what it is?

Joe Rogan 46:59 Yeah, it's a wolf hybrid. I saw it.

Tim Welch 47:01 A wolf hybrid with what?

Joe Rogan 47:02 A dog. Yeah, a wolf probably fucked a German Shepherd or something.

Tim Welch 47:05 (laughs) Damn, that's wild.

Joe Rogan 47:06 They do that. Most of the time, they kill them.

Tim Welch 47:08 What?

Joe Rogan 47:08 They'll kill dogs. They eat dogs constantly.

Tim Welch 47:11 That... I don't... He fucked that one.

Joe Rogan 47:12 But... Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 47:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:12 He's probably hungry or probably horny, rather, and not hungry.

Tim Welch 47:16 (laughs) Yeah, just horned up.

Joe Rogan 47:17 And he said, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna f- fuck this dog and see what happens."

Tim Welch 47:20 (laughs) Yeah, that's crazy.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 47:20 Damn, that's crazy.

Joe Rogan 47:22 Yeah, or a dog fucked him, or fucked her rather.

Tim Welch 47:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:24 It could've been that.

Tim Welch 47:25 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 47:26 Yeah, I don't know. But y- you saw it? You see that picture of that thing? To me, it looks like a wolf-dog hybrid, like maybe if somebody had-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 47:32 I wanna see.

Joe Rogan 47:32 What is that... There's this crazy Russian dog that looks like a werewolf. It's this weird Russian dog that has like fucking crazy hair all over the place and if a wolf fucked one of those, it would probably look like this thing.

Tim Welch 47:45 (laughs) Yeah. It's cute.

Joe Rogan 47:47 Did you find that thing? What does it look like? They have good pictures of it? See, that picture sucks. That's just the, the back of it. Let me see a sec-

Tim Welch 47:54 It's (clicks tongue) another picture of it.

Joe Rogan 47:55 It's head. Wolf dog shooting in Montana draws international attention.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 48:02 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:02 See, t- to me, it just looks like a dog fucked a wolf.

Tim Welch 48:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:05 It's just a big ass wolf dog.

Tim Welch 48:08 That thing's big. That thing is big.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 48:08 Holy fucker, though.

Joe Rogan 48:08 That is a big fucker.

Tim Welch 48:10 Sheesh.

Joe Rogan 48:10 It's a big animal. That looks like a 150-pound dog.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 48:13 Jesus.

Tim Welch 48:14 It could be a little pickup, too.

Joe Rogan 48:15 Yeah, could be, like a Tacoma.

Tim Welch 48:17 hunt. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:18 Right? It's hard to tell.

Tim Welch 48:20 Man, that's crazy.

Joe Rogan 48:21 They... Look, they're beautiful, man. I'm glad they're out there. They're fascinating, but they're rough on wildlife. But that's, that's their life, you know? Their life is out there killing and the, the elk's life is out there surviving. And the way I feel about hunting is you just dip your legs and your body into that world with discipline and with, uh, an understanding of what you're doing, and if you get lucky and you get an opportunity, you kill one of those animals and bring it out. And that's like... To me, that is the cleanest, best way to eat meat.

Tim Welch 48:49 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 48:50 I just feel like there's no better way in terms of, like, uh, karma, in terms of your interaction with nature, the, the understanding, connection that you have to your food. There's just so... And then healthwise, there's no Monsanto GMO.

Tim Welch 49:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:04 No spraying. I mean, you're eat- you're eating a pure animal.

Tim Welch 49:09 Yeah.I need to try ... I need to shoot one, someday.

Joe Rogan 49:12 Well, Montana's the place, man.

Tim Welch 49:14 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 49:14 Go back home. I mean, shit, it's one of the ... Montana has some of the best elk hunting in the entire country.

Tim Welch 49:21 I'd rather just eat my dad and brothers. I'm more of a gatherer. (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 49:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:23 That's good too, man.

Tim Welch 49:24 Yeah, I'd probably be right there with ya.

Joe Rogan 49:26 Be a ... Yeah. Hey, man, nothing wrong with gathering or farming, man.

Tim Welch 49:28 Dude.

Joe Rogan 49:28 Grow your own fucking vegetables, you know?

Tim Welch 49:31 That-

Joe Rogan 49:31 Nothing wrong with that.

Tim Welch 49:31 That's a plan. Eventually we're gonna make a compound and have our own animals and-

Joe Rogan 49:35 Hey, I'll give you guys some meat. I got a whole couple freezers back there.

Tim Welch 49:38 Whew.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 49:39 That would be so awesome.

Joe Rogan 49:40 Fill you ... Where ... When you guys go back?

Tim Welch 49:41 We're gonna drive back tonight.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 49:42 We're gonna drive back right after.

Joe Rogan 49:43 Oh, shit. I'll hook you up.

Tim Welch 49:44 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 49:44 Nice.

Joe Rogan 49:44 By the time you get home, you'll have, uh ... It won't even be frozen.

Tim Welch 49:47 Hell yes. Woo!

Joe Rogan 49:47 It won't even be thawed out yet.

Tim Welch 49:49 How old were you when you took your first rip ... of weed?

Joe Rogan 49:52 Weed? I was 30. Well, not really. See, I'd smoked when I was younger. But it was only, like, occasionally at, like, a party, and I always felt like a loser for doing it. You know? Like, everybody else would be getting high, and I'm like, "Oh, I'll try that." And... but I was probably already drunk anyway.

Tim Welch 50:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:06 You know?

Tim Welch 50:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:06 Like when I was 14 or 15-

Tim Welch 50:08 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 50:08 ... or something like that. So, maybe I smoked weed a handful of times, less than a dozen times, til I was 30. And then Eddie Bravo got me into it when I was 30 years old. We were doing jujitsu together. And, uh, he was telling me how marijuana was helping his jujitsu and helping his music and his creativity. And I was like, "What the fuck is this guy talking about?" And I'm like, "Dude, marijuana just makes you stupid." Like, "Don't you know?" You know? And he's like, "Just try it." And w- ... And h- ... He got high, and, uh, I remember thinking, like, "Oh, this is what it is." Like, "Wow. I did not know."

Tim Welch 50:44 Same. Same.

Joe Rogan 50:45 I can't believe it. That feeling, like, you're like, "Wow."

Tim Welch 50:49 Were you by yourself?

Joe Rogan 50:49 It's this. No, just me and Eddie.

Tim Welch 50:51 Oh, sweet.

Joe Rogan 50:52 I was like, "I can't believe this." We went and got something to eat. We were talking.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 50:56 Giggled.

Joe Rogan 50:56 Oh, yeah, we giggled like crazy.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 50:57 At the best.

Joe Rogan 50:58 Talked about all kinds of crazy shit. And then I remember I started smoking pot and getting on stage. And then I got real ... I was getting real creative with my, my comedy, and then smoking pot and doing jujitsu. It was like, "I can't believe how zoned in it gets you with training." Smoking pot and hitting the bag, to this day, is, like, one of my all-time favorite things. I get paranoid. I get freaked out.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 51:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:19 I get weirded out. I, I get s- ... I get freaked out. But then I just fucking wrap up my hands, put on the timer. And just once that sweat starts flowing and just start ... Huh, huh, ba, ba, ba, ba, bam.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 51:30 Oh.

Joe Rogan 51:30 And it's almost like the paranoia and the weirdness of it all, you just fight it off by hitting that bag. Ba-ba-boom, ba-ba-boom. You know, when you, you hear the bell that says 30 seconds and you're flurrying. And then you get that one minute off to think about life and the future-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 51:46 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 51:46 ... and th- the fucking universe and volcanoes and Guatemala and Hawaii and okay-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 51:52 Bing.

Joe Rogan 51:52 ... the bell goes off again, you got another three r- ... three minutes.

Tim Welch 51:54 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:54 And, man, it's, it's one of my, my, like ... It's a p- ... It's a psychedelic experience. It's like a cleansing experience, hitting the bag when you're high.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 52:03 I like sh- ... I love shadow boxing when I'm high. I'll take a rip out ... at home and just sit, and I got a little mirror, and I'll just shadow box. Don't even know how long. I just can just shadow box for ... Just go.

Joe Rogan 52:12 Do you know what's weird? Like, you feel balanced when you're high. You feel like, like, maybe, like, if you got an injury, you feel it more. You feel like things are off.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 52:23 More aware.

Joe Rogan 52:23 You know what I mean? And, like, for me, I f- ... I feel my transfer of power better when I'm high. Like, there are, like, certain techniques, I, I really get the timing of, like, when to turn the hip over. I feel it more when I'm high.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 52:38 Fuck yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:38 Like, I, I feel the connection with all the tissue, all of it working together.

Tim Welch 52:43 I swear it helps you just l- ... stay in the moment a little bit more, especially at night after you train real hard and you're thinking about ... Your mind's going 100 miles per hour. Take one rip and you go, "Ah."

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 52:52 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:52 It's all gravy.

Tim Welch 52:53 I know.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 52:53 I, like, f- ... Like, everyone always ask if I ... how much I smoke, when, when do I smoke. After surgery, I was smoking all day. The doctor said, "Hey-"

Joe Rogan 53:01 What did they do to your foot?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:02 So, I tore the Lisfranc. So I, I think I fractured it and torn the ligaments.

Joe Rogan 53:06 What is the Lisfranc?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:07 Um-

Joe Rogan 53:08 What is it? Why is it called Lisfranc? Does one poor girl have a fucking horrible injury?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:12 The, these ligaments right here.

Tim Welch 53:13 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:13 I don't know.

Tim Welch 53:14 Anne Frank's cousin.

Joe Rogan 53:14 And that was in that-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:16 That was the ... That was the, uh, Cukintov fight with Andre.

Joe Rogan 53:18 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:18 Um, I did ... I, I threw a kick, and I landed, and I launched off my right foot to throw a right hand, and I felt it snap right there.

Joe Rogan 53:25 Oh.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:25 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 53:26 'Cause we, we watched the replay. Oh, there it is, right here. So, the lisfranc joint complex. Oh. So, that's where it tore.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:34 I'm just glad there's someone smart enough on this wor- ... on this earth to be able to fix my foot.

Tim Welch 53:39 Dude, think of my mouth. That was like foaming.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:41 God, there's some smart people in this world.

Joe Rogan 53:42 And so you're ... What are you, like, 11 weeks out from surgery?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:44 Yeah, I'm about 11 weeks out. 10, 11 weeks out, and I'm, um-

Joe Rogan 53:47 Wow.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:47 ... I'm feeling about 85, 90%.

Joe Rogan 53:49 Wow.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:49 I think, uh ... I go to the doctor in a couple weeks to get it cleared.

Joe Rogan 53:51 Whoa, you were kicking the bag with that foot.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:53 I was feeling good. Yeah, it's feeling-

Joe Rogan 53:54 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 53:54 Like, that was the first time I kicked the bag, and that felt good. And I was, I was excited about that, uh-

Joe Rogan 53:58 That's awesome. It's, uh, it's great that they can fix shit, man.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:01 (exhales) Seriously.

Joe Rogan 54:03 I mean, thank God for smart people. (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:04 I know. I was like, "I would be fucked right now."

Joe Rogan 54:07 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:07 But I guess this, this, this injury, like, a ton of people get it, and they don't know. And they just g- ... They just let it kinda heal-

Joe Rogan 54:15 Mm-hmm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:15 ... and live with it. But-

Joe Rogan 54:16 And what-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:17 B-

Joe Rogan 54:17 ... what did ... What was it like, like as it was healing? Like, what does it impede?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:22 What's impede?

Joe Rogan 54:23 Uh, what does it stop you from doing?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:24 Okay.

Joe Rogan 54:24 What does it slow you down with? What is ... What does it get in the way of things?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:29 Walking. Just, just walking hurt so bad. Um, I, I, I didn't do anything. I remember the doctor said, "Just stay off your foot." I literally played Fortnite eight ... I was playing, like ... I was living a professional gamer life for a month.

Joe Rogan 54:41 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:41 I was gaming eight hours a day. I would wake up, and I'd go and game for eight hours a day.

Tim Welch 54:46 You'd be high the whole time.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:47 And I was smoking, like ... 'Cause I, I personally don't like smoking all day. I feel like it makes me unmo- ... And not ... It's not the weed, it's me. I feel unmotivated. I just don't really like it. But when I was playing ... When I was gaming, it was the best.

Joe Rogan 54:57 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 54:57 I was just gaming, smoking all day. But, uh ... Yeah, I was ... Uh, where was I going with that?

Joe Rogan 55:02 The surgery with your foot.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 55:05 Oh, yeah. Let's talk about m- um, let's talk about smoking weed. Um, I like weed as a n- like, a nightly celebration almost. Like I-

Tim Welch 55:13 Mm-hmm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 55:13 ... I get shit done during the day. I wake up, do my morning routine, go to the gym, come home, do what I do, eat lunch, play Fortnite, go to the gym, come home. And that's when I'm like, "Okay, I've earned-"

Tim Welch 55:22 Earned it.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 55:22 Because marijuana's so easy and, like, I know there's a- a- a huge following of- of, um, people who smoke weed. And it's so easy for marijuana to take over your life and- and be in charge of you. Um, and I felt that when I was gaming and smoking, like, I just want- I, like, wanted to. I'm like, "Ah, I don't, ah, whatever." Take a rip, take a rip, take a rip. Um, and it takes over your life and I feel like it's- it- it's such a powerful dr- um, I don't like the word drug. It's such a powerful... It is a drug, though. Um-

Tim Welch 55:53 Substance.

Joe Rogan 55:53 Masks a lot of people's problems.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 55:54 ... masks a lot of people's feelings of how they truly feel.

Tim Welch 55:57 Mm-hmm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 55:58 It's so easy to get high all day instead of deal with them certain emotions. Um, so I just feel like, I feel like people are abusing it way too much and I've-

Tim Welch 56:06 Some people certainly are.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:07 Some people are, and I-

Tim Welch 56:08 That's the case with everything, though, right?

Joe Rogan 56:09 It is.

Tim Welch 56:09 For sure.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:10 It is. Um, but...

Joe Rogan 56:11 So this foot thing, what do they- how do they fix it? What are the- what is the surgery?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:15 They put, uh, some pins in to hold the ligaments together.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Mm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:19 Um, well, uh, there was two options. I was gonna get a plate in my foot, and then six weeks later they were gonna, I was gonna get surgery again to take it out.

Tim Welch 56:25 Take the plate out?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:26 And I was like, "That does not sound-"

Tim Welch 56:28 I'd like to keep that plate in. Crack people with it.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:30 Yeah, no shit. Well, I land a lot of my, a lot of my kicks, you know, you land, you're supposed to land with your shin, but I land a lot with my foot. It's like a slap. (slapping sound)

Tim Welch 56:37 But look at Thompson.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:38 Yeah.

Tim Welch 56:38 You know, he throws a lot of instep kicks. I mean, that was the-

Joe Rogan 56:40 (laughs)

Tim Welch 56:40 ... karate way for the longest time.

Joe Rogan 56:42 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:42 I literally remember, I- I knocked someone out in Seattle with my foot and the dude was out for, like, 10 minutes. It was... Remember that?

Joe Rogan 56:49 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:50 That was gnarly. It was literally-

Joe Rogan 56:51 Yeah, you look at-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:51 ... my foot slapping his jaw and I was like, "Holy shit, that's-"

Joe Rogan 56:56 You most certainly-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 56:56 "...that was my foot."

Joe Rogan 56:56 ... can knock people out with your foot. I mean, that Phil Davis in Bellator just knocked that guy out. That was his foot, wasn't it?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:02 Didn't his foot land? Yeah, it's weird 'cause you don't see-

Tim Welch 57:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:04 ... it coming. (foot hitting sound)

Tim Welch 57:05 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:05 So shots you don't see coming. Yeah, you're right.

Joe Rogan 57:07 Especially when they come over the shoulder, you know? Those- those round kicks that come over the shoulder from the outside, you don't see 'em?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:13 That Stephen Thompson kick-

Joe Rogan 57:14 Mm-hmm.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:15 ... where he threw that, that was-

Joe Rogan 57:16 Yep.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:16 ... that's probably one of my favorite knockouts and he came over, like-

Joe Rogan 57:18 Yep.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:18 ... it literally looked like it came over... (slapping sound)

Joe Rogan 57:19 Yeah.

Tim Welch 57:19 Question mark.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:20 That was so sweet. God, that was sweet.

Joe Rogan 57:21 It's almost like question mark. Yeah, almost like that one, but, you know, the question mark one comes straight up the middle-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:25 Mm-hmm. That's the- that's-

Joe Rogan 57:26 ... and comes around.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:26 I threw the question mark kick, landed, and then that's when I did it. That's when I hurt my foot. Oh, yeah, I wanted to bring this up too. I remember, um, you had a, you were... I don't remember what podcast it was, but you were talking about... You were looking at my Instagram, you saw the- I did a kick to a guard pass. I was in front of him, did a 360-

Joe Rogan 57:41 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:42 ... guard pass and I remember you saying, "He could do that in a fight if he practiced it a lot." And I've been practicing that so... I've- I've been doing that for a couple years now and I did it in that Andre fight. I was... He was up against the cage and I had 360 passed into side control and-

Tim Welch 57:55 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 57:55 ... I wanted to bring that up and tell you that. But it was... It works. Spinning does... People don't know what to do when you spin.

Joe Rogan 58:02 Right.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 58:02 He... I spun and he covered, he'd cover up.

Joe Rogan 58:04 Right.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 58:05 I'm past, I'm already in side control now.

Joe Rogan 58:07 There's a moment they have to think.

Tim Welch 58:08 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 58:08 It's e- and when I'm, uh, striking as well. Usually when I spin, they back up and cover up, like...

Joe Rogan 58:14 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 58:14 ... "Now I'm gonna go to your body."

Joe Rogan 58:15 Think-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 58:15 "Now I'm going to your body and then I'm gonna go to your head."

Tim Welch 58:17 You can get away with a lot of stuff other people can't. You're so fucking athletic. I feel like you could be a pro in a bunch of different sports. Like, his timing and his eyes, like, what did the doctor say? You have some of the best eyes you could have?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 58:27 Yeah, I remember going to the eye doctor, a few different ones, and they're like, "Oh my God, your eyes are ins- they're some of the best eyes I've ever seen in my life." Like, they were taken back. I don't know, I don't know if that transfers over to fighting and (laughs) my distance, you know, how I see things coming or...

Tim Welch 58:41 You found your range such at a young age too, not like a wrestler, like, it's constant penetration, penetration, penetration. Started as a striker, so he's got his range down so good and his eyes and his timing and his reaction time is so fucking fast. So, like, everyone sees him and they're like, "Oh, that's, that's beatable." But when- with him in front of you, it's way fucking different.

Joe Rogan 58:59 Well, your length, man, for your weight class, for bantamweight, you're so fucking long. And I told you when I saw you, I thought for a second that you might have been the son of Michael O'Malley. There's a guy named Michael O'Malley who was my original TaeKwonDo instructor, who was a four time national champion, like, literally one of the best TaeKwonDo fighters in the world in his prime.

Tim Welch 59:21 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 59:21 Oh, yeah. He is tall.

Joe Rogan 59:22 Yeah, he's very tall. And he fought 147.

Tim Welch 59:26 Little skinny man just like you.

Joe Rogan 59:27 And he was, like, 6'3".

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 59:28 Do they cut weight in TaeKwonDo?

Joe Rogan 59:29 Yes.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 59:30 Okay.

Joe Rogan 59:30 Yeah, but terribly.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 59:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:31 Nobody- nobody knows what they're doing.

Tim Welch 59:33 Damn, that's sweet.

Joe Rogan 59:33 They- they cut weight and fight the same day, but he was, uh, he was a beast. He was my original TaeKwonDo instructor. He was Jae Hon Kim's prize student. He was his number one student.

Tim Welch 59:43 Damn.

Joe Rogan 59:44 And when I started, Michael had stopped fighting. He was just teaching. And now he runs a school in, uh, Peabody. But he basically taught me almost everything that I know. And Mr. Kim-

Tim Welch 59:56 Michael O'Malley.

Joe Rogan 59:56 Mr. Kim took over as well when he came back. But when I first started to train there for the first year or so, Mr. Kim was in Korea and I learned everything from, uh, Mr. O'Malley.

Tim Welch 1:00:06 Fucking long limbs just like Sugar too.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 Oh, he was so fast too.

Tim Welch 1:00:09 That's sweet.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 So fast. He was so fast. He would do demonstrations on people, you know, like, demonstrations on how to set things up. And you would see him do things and it was just... It was confusing. You'd be like, "Fuck, imagine if that guy was trying to kick me." Like how you-

Tim Welch 1:00:23 In front of you?

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 Yeah, 'cause you'd be fucked 'cause he was so good at setting things up and footwork and movement. And so when I saw you, I was like, "Holy shit, this kid looks like Michael O'Malley."

Tim Welch 1:00:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Like, I thought you were his son.

Tim Welch 1:00:35 That's funny.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Like, I really did. I was like, "Holy shit, his son is fighting?" 'Cause I haven't talked to Michael-

Tim Welch 1:00:41 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 ... in a long time.

Tim Welch 1:00:43 (laughs) That's sweet.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:00:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 I really did think that you were his son.

Tim Welch 1:00:45 That would've been nuts.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:00:46 That woulda been.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 Yeah, I was like, "Wow-"

Tim Welch 1:00:48 Man.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 "... when I see this kid, I gotta ask him." Nope.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:00:51 Nope. No, nope.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 Maybe.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:00:52 Not my dad. Who knows?

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 Maybe someone's on a-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:00:53 Who knows?

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 ... traveling journey, you know what I'm saying?

Tim Welch 1:00:55 (laughs)

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:00:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 (laughs)

Tim Welch 1:00:56 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:00:56 You never know. You never know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Yeah, this world's crazy.

Tim Welch 1:00:58 Yeah, this world's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 Where was that at? What- what-

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:00:59 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Massachusetts.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:01:00 Massachusetts?

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 Yeah.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:01:02 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Um, so when you first got together, when you t- for... When you two first got together, you were 18?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:01:09 ... yeah, when he first com- when he was commentating the fight, yeah, I was 18. I moved down when I was 19.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 And, and how old are you now?

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:01:13 23.

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 23? And so have you guys have been hanging out together and training together the entire time?

Tim Welch 1:01:19 Yeah, we've been best friends the entire time, so it's like ... And Sugar really l- like, looks up to me and trusts my opinion, and he listens to me. And that makes me have to up my game, you know. I have, constantly have to research 'cause I know he trusts me, and I know he looks up to me, so, uh, I have to make sure everything's really top-notch.

"Sugar" Sean O'Malley 1:01:33 He, it's- it's- it's nice now that I'm in a position to where I can pay ... He's m- he's my coach. Like, he's my main coach. I can ... I'm paying him to be my coach. He's focusing on me, my diet, um, watching videos. He sends ... Like, on Instagram, he'll send me videos of, like, we're ... I'm ... I l- jujitsu's my favorite sport in the gi, that's probably what I've trained the most in r- like, since, since my start is just pretty much what I've been doing is just drilling in the gi. Um, he teaches at, uh, Gents' Soul Fighters, and I go there and drill Monday, Wednesday, Friday.