JRE MMA Show #32 with Firas Zahabi

1. 0:05 – 3:54

   TimTam percussion massager: sciatica relief and why percussion matters

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      Three, two, one. Boom. I don't wanna start off like this is a commercial, dude, but this fucking thing you have, this TIM TAM thing.

   2. FZFiras Zahabi0:14

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      This is incredible.

   4. FZFiras Zahabi0:16

      It's sick, huh? It's amazing.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      I've never... I've seen some of these different ones online, people using them, Thera things, you know, I don't know what they call them, uh, Theragun I think. But this fucking thing is amazing.

   6. FZFiras Zahabi0:29

      This is the most powerful one. It has the, the highest travel, and it's the, the best price. So I mean it's-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:35

      Out of all the different ones of these things online?

   8. FZFiras Zahabi0:37

      Yeah, this is the best one.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:38

      So what this is, folks, we took the battery out. I'm, I'll pop the battery back in real quick.

   10. FZFiras Zahabi0:42

       You want to pop it in?

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       I'll pop it in real quick.

   12. FZFiras Zahabi0:43

       Go for it.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Just so people can see. That's how impressed I am by this thing. So I've had this nagging muscle in my hip, and then, like, instantaneously (tim tam buzzes) this fucking thing... You, you hold it, folks, and you get it, like, right on a spot. For me it's, like, right here. I can go... (tim tam buzzes) And it just loosens that motherfucker up, like... This is so much more powerful than any of those massagers that you get, like, from a store.

   14. FZFiras Zahabi1:12

       Exactly. No, no. There's no massager more powerful than this one on the market.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Oh.

   16. FZFiras Zahabi1:17

       Like, this is not for Mom and Dad, you know. This is for the guy doing, uh, you know, playing soccer, football, MMA, CrossFit. Like, that's for the hardcore athletes.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       And you invented this?

   18. FZFiras Zahabi1:25

       I, I started the company. I started the company. I bought one of those DMS. I don't know if you've ever heard of those. It's called deep muscle stimulator. It's kind of sim-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       We were talking about that before, and I said-

   20. FZFiras Zahabi1:33

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       ... "Save this, save this."

   22. FZFiras Zahabi1:34

       Yeah, yeah, exactly.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       Uh, so what is that?

   24. FZFiras Zahabi1:35

       It's a... The deep muscle stimulator, it's like a stainless steel high-powered massager that you have to plug in. It cost me three grand. I bought it. It... I had a really bad sciatica for two years. Like, I almost stopped training. Like, I almost had to take a, like, a-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       I've got a problem with that right now.

   26. FZFiras Zahabi1:48

       Really? Sciatica?

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       Yeah, yeah.

   28. FZFiras Zahabi1:49

       Okay, this is gonna help you out big time.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       It comes and goes.

   30. FZFiras Zahabi1:51

       Big time.
2. 3:54 – 6:26

   Self-massage, mobility tools, and staying loose to avoid injuries

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      Yeah, it's kind of a... It's really hard to find someone who can massage you correctly. It's very hard to find someone that's good.

   2. FZFiras Zahabi4:02

      Exactly.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:02

      Someone who can really break up the tissue. But even if you do, like... What this thing can do, this thing is, like, vibrating you and shaking-

   4. FZFiras Zahabi4:10

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:10

      ... everything loose and-

   6. FZFiras Zahabi4:11

      I have a, I have a cone tip I gotta send you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:14

      Uh-oh.

   8. FZFiras Zahabi4:14

      It's even... It goes even deeper.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:15

      Oh.

   10. FZFiras Zahabi4:15

       So if you can handle deep tissue-

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:17

       Ooh.

   12. FZFiras Zahabi4:17

       ... I'm gonna send you a bunch of them.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:18

       Okay.

   14. FZFiras Zahabi4:18

       Yeah, you're gonna love it. We have also cold tip, hot tip. It's, uh, it's pretty fr-

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:21

       Oh, so you freeze them?

   16. FZFiras Zahabi4:22

       Uh, you can freeze them because that helps kill the pain. So if you have an acute, acute injury, like, or s- And after, like, a, a week or two and you wanna start working on it, the, the cold of the tip helps numb the pain. It helps manage pain a little more. And the hot tip helps loosen up the muscle a little further. I mostly use the cone tip. The cone tip's for those who have, you know, their experience with massage. You're, you're, you're able to go deep tissue. And, uh, for some people it hurts. For me, it's, it's, it's perfect.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:45

       Y- So you find, like, where the scar tissue is-

   18. FZFiras Zahabi4:48

       Exactly.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:48

       ... and you break it up. Yeah.

   20. FZFiras Zahabi4:49

       Exactly. The surface area on the cone tip is obviously smaller so it goes even in, in deeper and, and, and unlocks that muscle real quick. So for me, I don't have the time for foam rolling, you know. That's the, the main reason why I, I wanted a product like this. 'Cause foam rolling takes forever to br- to really loosen up a muscle.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       Mm-hmm.

   22. FZFiras Zahabi5:04

       And I'm in the gym all day. Do I wanna stay, you know, in the gym another hour rolling up and down on a, on a foam roller?

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:09

       I think you gotta do something though, right?

   24. FZFiras Zahabi5:11

       Yeah, exactly.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:11

       You kinda have to do something.

   26. FZFiras Zahabi5:12

       If you're training hard and you wanna train for life.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:15

       Do you use those, uh... Well, we don't have one in the room, but do you ever use those, um... What are they called? Supernova? Yep. Supernova Ball.

   28. FZFiras Zahabi5:21

       Yeah, like a lacrosse ball kind of balls?

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:23

       Balls. Yep, yep. Yeah. But it's larger.

   30. FZFiras Zahabi5:24

       Yes.
3. 6:26 – 8:59

   Kelly Starrett’s ‘Supple Leopard’: alignment + loose muscles (and fixing knee valgus)

   1. FZFiras Zahabi6:26

      Good posture. You know, Kelly Starrett wrote a book. You had him on- on this show.

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:29

      Yeah, he's great.

   3. FZFiras Zahabi6:30

      He's a really amazing guy.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:30

      He's great.

   5. FZFiras Zahabi6:31

      He really changed my life, honestly. I'm t- I'm telling you, reading his book, Supple Leopard-

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:34

      Mm-hmm.

   7. FZFiras Zahabi6:34

      ... I don't know, all my- all- all- everybody who knows me, follows me, they know I always talk about this book. You know, he said something so important. He said, "Look, it comes down to two things. Good alignment and loose muscles." You gotta keep your body aligned and loose muscles. And, uh, I just followed those two principles. I mean, his book is really, really excellent. And, um, when I saw his- when I read his book, that's when I- I reached out to him to work with George. Because he- I don't know if you've ever seen when George does a back flip.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:00

      Mm-hmm.

   9. FZFiras Zahabi7:00

      And he lands, his knees always kind of come in together. If you ever see like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:03

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   11. FZFiras Zahabi7:03

       Watch him do a back flip. That's called a ... I was reading his book and I saw that's the valgus fault. He calls that the valgus fault. When you're- when you do a squat and your knees come close to one another and he's like, "That, uh, can cause ACL tears." And I'm like, "I know a guy with two ACL tears and he does that all the time."

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:16

       (laughs)

   13. FZFiras Zahabi7:16

       I see him do that all the time. It's something I've always noticed about George.

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:19

       Yeah.

   15. FZFiras Zahabi7:19

       His knees always bow in when we do lifts, when we do jumps, when we do hurdles. I mean, I've watched G- George jump up and down, uh, uh, literally thousands of times. And I saw his knees bowing all the time. And he's like, "Well ..." Then I reached out to him. I said, "Hey, could you help me correct George's ... There it is. That's the valgus fault."

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:35

       Mm-hmm.

   17. FZFiras Zahabi7:35

       And he's like, "Sure." And- and ever since then, George's knees have been, uh, a lot better. And we still use-

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:40

       What did you do to fix it?

   19. FZFiras Zahabi7:41

       Well, what he does, it's a technical skill. It's a skill. So he does, he has a few different exercises to help you correct it. So you put a band around your knees and you kind of push out on the band. But really what we do is we'll make George do a lift or a jump, film it, send it to Kelly, and he'll tell us how aligned we are and what directions to go. So he kind of coaches us on how to avoid, um, um, this, uh, fault. However, really at the end of the day, it's about keeping your knees turned to the outside.

   20. JRJoe Rogan8:05

       Mm-hmm.

   21. FZFiras Zahabi8:06

       I used to walk up the stairs and have knees in my- pain in my knee. Do you ever have that when you walk upstairs?

   22. JRJoe Rogan8:11

       No.

   23. FZFiras Zahabi8:11

       I- I used to have pain in my knee walking up the stairs. And I was-

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:13

       Just from stairs?

   25. FZFiras Zahabi8:14

       Just from walking upstairs. And I didn't know why. And then I read his book and he's like, "Look, when you walk up a step, you gotta keep your toes straight and turn your knee out." I was like, "Really?" And I started doing that. My pain was gone immediately.

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:25

       Keep your toes straight.

   27. FZFiras Zahabi8:26

       Straight.

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:27

       Like toes forward.

   29. FZFiras Zahabi8:28

       Turn your knee out.

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:29

       And turn your knee out.
4. 8:59 – 11:21

   Creating torque: stability in lifting, grappling, and everyday movement

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:59

      ... even when you run hills, you should do that.

   2. FZFiras Zahabi9:01

      Absolutely. You should always be aligned. Whenever your body's under pressure or stress, whether you're wrestling or whatnot, you should always have torque. So like, look, grab your shirt like this, okay? Grab your shirt.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:11

      Okay.

   4. FZFiras Zahabi9:11

      He- he gives an example in the book. Excellent example. So now grab the- the shirt and twist it here. Create torque. Now, look, you have a much more, uh, stable grip. You know, a-

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:20

      Sure.

   6. FZFiras Zahabi9:20

      ... judoka is always gonna grab the lapels and twist them.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:22

      Right.

   8. FZFiras Zahabi9:23

      So when you grab the bar, let's say you're gonna do a bench press. Maybe, you know, it's not the best exercise or not, but the principle is still at work. When you grab the bar, you should be torquing the bar.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:32

      Almost ...

   10. FZFiras Zahabi9:33

       When you're doing push-ups, your hands are on the mat and you're torquing.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:36

       Hmm. Right.

   12. FZFiras Zahabi9:36

       Even though your hands are not turning literally, you're just torquing.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:38

       Right.

   14. FZFiras Zahabi9:39

       When you do that, you feel that all the slack is eaten up.

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:42

       Hmm.

   16. FZFiras Zahabi9:42

       There's no more slack. There's no more, uh- uh, trampoline effect. You know, there's no more jiggling.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       Mm-hmm.

   18. FZFiras Zahabi9:46

       Everything's tight. The system is tight. And it's very, very important that the system be tight and that the weight be on the muscles.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:52

       Hmm.

   20. FZFiras Zahabi9:52

       So if you're properly aligned when you're doing a maneuver, the weight is on the bone, not on the tendons. So if you put your- put your weight like this on your fingers, you'll see that the bone is carrying the weight.

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:04

       Right.

   22. FZFiras Zahabi10:04

       If you bend- if you bend your bones here, look, look. If you're unaligned and you start putting pressure, now you see your muscles are starting to work-

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:09

       Right.

   24. FZFiras Zahabi10:09

       ... overtime.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:09

       Right.

   26. FZFiras Zahabi10:10

       So when I'm carrying weight, I need to- I need to have it on my bones and/or my muscles. Never on the tendons and ligaments. Your ligaments-

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:16

       You know, they say that with backpackers. You know what backpackers do?

   28. FZFiras Zahabi10:20

       No.

   29. JRJoe Rogan10:20

       They- they- they keep their legs as stiff as possible and they take short, like, sort of short steps.

   30. FZFiras Zahabi10:26

       Mm-hmm.
5. 11:21 – 15:17

   Hip flexibility and guard retention: why mobility translates directly to jiu-jitsu

   1. FZFiras Zahabi11:21

      Yeah, that's why it makes so much sense to keep your legs straight when you're hiking. It's like a horse that sleeps, right? He's sleeping. If he aligns his legs perfectly straight, he's using structure to hold him up instead of muscular strength. So I mean, and he ... I remember y- you had him on the show and you guys had a very interesting, uh, uh, conversation and you- he was talking about front squatting will make you have a great guard. But I think you guys mis- misunderstood each other actually, 'cause you were like, "No, front squatting has nothing to do with have a great guard." And I- and I agree with both of you, but I think you guys were not talking about the exact same thing. He's talking about having the mobility to squat down really low-

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:55

      Mm-hmm.

   3. FZFiras Zahabi11:55

      ... in the front squat will help your guard. Not necessarily having a big lift, not necessarily. He wasn't talking about ha- lifting 300 pounds in the front squat is gonna make you a great guard player.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:04

      Mm-hmm.

   5. FZFiras Zahabi12:04

      That- that's irrelevant. He was... I think what he was talking about is having incredible mobility in your hips. You ever see a- a child pick up something off the floor, like a- a newborn baby?

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:13

      Mm-hmm.

   7. FZFiras Zahabi12:13

      He's gonna get into this perfect, perfect squat. Well, if you- if you look at guard players, the best guard players always have incredible flexibility in their hips.

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      Right.

   9. FZFiras Zahabi12:20

      Because I always tell people that the higher you can bring your hips to your chest...... the harder it is for me to pass your guard. Like, if you're one of those guys where your, where your knee's like this, you know, you're trying to re-guard and your knees are this far, it's, the, the space for me to pass your guard is huge.

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:31

       Giant, yeah.

   11. FZFiras Zahabi12:32

       But if you can bring this foot behind your head-

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:34

       Mm-hmm.

   13. FZFiras Zahabi12:35

       ... and your hip is so, it's f- the window, the space that I need to cross to get to side control is so small.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:40

       Yeah, j- um, Eddy has, uh ... excuse me, one of his students is named Sean Bollinger, and he has crazy flexibility.

   15. FZFiras Zahabi12:45

       Right, I, I've seen him, I've seen him, I've seen him.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       Crazy.

   17. FZFiras Zahabi12:47

       The double, uh-

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       Yeah, he could do double lotus like-

   19. FZFiras Zahabi12:50

       Yeah. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:50

       And, and he could literally take his legs and put them behind his head.

   21. FZFiras Zahabi12:53

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:53

       I mean, he could just p- pull his legs back, put 'em behind his head.

   23. FZFiras Zahabi12:55

       How many, how many great guard players have you seen who can do that? So many of us.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       Slamming guys, yeah.

   25. FZFiras Zahabi12:59

       Like, like Ryan Hall, for instance.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:00

       Keenan.

   27. FZFiras Zahabi13:00

       Uh, yeah, Keenan. I mean, they, they have this flexibility to them.

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       Mm-hmm.

   29. FZFiras Zahabi13:04

       Passing their guards becomes very, very difficult.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:06

       T- it's almost impossible.
6. 15:17 – 18:51

   Toughness vs longevity: inflammation, supplements, and cutting sugar

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      What do you do in terms of, do you take circuminin or curcum- curcuminin, that's how you say it, right? Curcuminin, turmeric, (clears throat) anti-inflammatory, you know, herbs and things along those lines, um, th- I know that, um, there was, Rhonda Patrick just put something up about, uh, I think you say, I think you call it curcuminin. Circuminin or cur- curcuminin? Anyway, it's turmeric, it's the active ingredient in turmeric and she just put something up on her, uh, Twitter page a couple of days ago about how important this stuff is, (clears throat) and to make sure that you have, uh, bioavailable. It improves memory and mood as well.

   2. FZFiras Zahabi15:54

      Well, I'll have to try that, haven't tried it.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:55

      Yeah, it's just turmeric. It's, uh-

   4. FZFiras Zahabi15:57

      Really?

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:58

      Yeah, and that stuff is fantastic for inflammation. People that have soreness and, you know, like nagging injuries and nagging inflammation, having that as a part of your daily diet is fantastic, along with fish oil. (clears throat) Fish oil's really good for that. You know, of course, and then watching your diet and making sure you're low in inflammatory foods like sugar and alcohol-

   6. FZFiras Zahabi16:19

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:20

      ... and, you know, things along the, really, it's amazing how much of a difference it makes.

   8. FZFiras Zahabi16:23

      It's huge.

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:23

      If you have any sort of, uh, back injury or inflammation. I talked to this lady who was a therapist a few years back and she was saying, "You know, you should really try going gluten-free if you have issues with your, uh, with your back." I was like, "Listen to this wacky bitch." (laughs) That's what I was thinking. (laughs) All I was thinking is like, "Oh, she's talking woo-woo w- crystals nonsense." And I was like, "Wait a minute, really? Gluten?" She's like, "You'd be amazed at how many people, um, when..." And now that I've thought about it more and with all that I know, talking to various nutritionists and, and actual clinical researchers, I think it's as much gluten as it is just y- just sugar, refined carbohydrate- hydrates and, refined carbohydrates and sugars and all these different things just create inflammation. There's just no way around it.

   10. FZFiras Zahabi17:08

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:08

       Especially the, the levels that normal Americans eat 'em in.

   12. FZFiras Zahabi17:13

       Oh boy.

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:13

       Yeah.

   14. FZFiras Zahabi17:13

       Now you're talking about-

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       We're the worst.

   16. FZFiras Zahabi17:15

       ... yeah. It's, it's tremendous amount of sugar.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:17

       Yeah, it's just-

   18. FZFiras Zahabi17:18

       Like, you, you don't know it until you get off sugar-

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:20

       Mm-hmm.

   20. FZFiras Zahabi17:20

       ... and then you go f- see everybody who's eating the standard amount of sugar and you're like, it blows your mind.

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:27

       Yeah.

   22. FZFiras Zahabi17:27

       You don't need that much sugar.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       There's no way.

   24. FZFiras Zahabi17:29

       It's-

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:29

       Yeah.

   26. FZFiras Zahabi17:29

       ... it's just way too much and you feel sick eating that much sugar again. Like, it's just, it's mind-boggling.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       Like a jug of Gatorade that a lot of dudes drink after practice?

   28. FZFiras Zahabi17:36

       Oh my God. I couldn't get that down.

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:37

       That's ... I mean, have you ever seen those, they, they have those things where they show you, uh, in, um, on, uh, online, they have like, "This is the amount of sugar that's in a can of Coke. This is the amount of sugar that's in a 24-ounce bottle of Gatorade." It's, it's fucking crazy. (laughs)

   30. FZFiras Zahabi17:51

       It's incredible.
7. 18:51 – 24:52

   Genetics, body types, and why GSP can ‘get away’ with bad eating

   1. FZFiras Zahabi18:51

      Yeah, George used to do that. But I'll tell you something, George is a freak of nature when it comes to diet.

   2. JRJoe Rogan18:55

      Yeah?

   3. FZFiras Zahabi18:55

      Yeah. Well, he, he's very blessed. Okay? I think, uh, I think there's... Look, this is just my observation but I think some people, um, uh, when they eat carbs, they spike their insulin, okay, and they, they can get fat off, if they eat too much carbs. And some people eat a tremendous amount of carbs and they never get fat. And we've all h- we all have a friend who eats a lot of junk food and is ripped. W- they're not all, they're not many in the, in the world.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:17

      Right.

   5. FZFiras Zahabi19:17

      Okay? But they exist.

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:18

      Yeah.

   7. FZFiras Zahabi19:18

      We've all, we've all met a person like that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:20

      Yeah.

   9. FZFiras Zahabi19:20

      George is one of those guys. Like, if he eats McDonald's for a week or he eats vegetables for a week, it doesn't matter, he's gonna be lean either way. Now, he'll be lean around vegetables, but even on McDonald's he's gonna be lean. He's never been fat in his entire career. His entire life, I should say. So, I mean-

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       Did he get a little heavier when he stopped training?

   11. FZFiras Zahabi19:37

       He g- he gets bulky.

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:37

       Look, 'cause he took some photos for the UFC. He looked a little heavier.

   13. FZFiras Zahabi19:40

       He, bulky, I would say.

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:41

       Yeah.

   15. FZFiras Zahabi19:41

       But would you, you, would you say that he's chubby or fat?

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       No.

   17. FZFiras Zahabi19:44

       No? No.

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       If I saw him at the beach I wouldn't say, "Look at that fat guy."

   19. FZFiras Zahabi19:46

       He'd be like, "This guy's shredded." I'd be like, "This guy's jacked."

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:48

       I'd be like, "That guy's jacked."

   21. FZFiras Zahabi19:48

       "This guy's jacked. He should-"

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:49

       But when it's George, you hold him to the highest of standards.

   23. FZFiras Zahabi19:52

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:52

       You know, it's...

   25. FZFiras Zahabi19:53

       If I ate the way he eats, I would be fat.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:55

       Wow.

   27. FZFiras Zahabi19:55

       Let's put it that way. How many people have told me, "Hey, I've been hanging out with George for a week, I got fat. I gained 10 pounds."

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       (laughs)

   29. FZFiras Zahabi19:59

       I'm like, "Yeah, that's George, man."

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:01

       (laughs)
8. 24:52 – 26:50

   Fight style must match body type and personality (Ali vs Tyson principle)

   1. JRJoe Rogan24:52

      W- is there a best body for fighting or is there, uh, do you just adapt your style to whatever body you have?

   2. FZFiras Zahabi24:58

      Exactly. I think there's a best body for basketball, a best body for football, well it depends what position you're playing. But fighting, everybody has an, a, uh, a fight in their DNA, so all styles, all, excuse me, all body types can fight.

   3. JRJoe Rogan25:13

      Hmm.

   4. FZFiras Zahabi25:13

      And that's what's so amazing. You got a, you got a Pajares, he's a endomorph, man, but he found a way to fight that makes sense for him. That's why I always tell people, "You gotta fight according to your, your body type." And people think that's crazy. No, Muhammad Ali fought a certain way because he has certain attributes, he had certain, he had certain, uh, a certain personality, even your personality is very important.

   5. JRJoe Rogan25:34

      Mm-hmm.

   6. FZFiras Zahabi25:34

      If he tried to fight like Tyson, it would backfire.

   7. JRJoe Rogan25:36

      Right.

   8. FZFiras Zahabi25:36

      If Tyson tried to fight like Muhammad Ali, it would backfire. I think everybody has to start with the basics and then after three, four years of training, even maybe up to five years, now you gotta specialize for what your temperament is, what your body type is, how, what your personality is because not everybody wants to get it done in round one, and not everybody's the type of person who's gonna take it to the cards, and not everybody has, uh, a reach and speed to jab in and out.

   9. JRJoe Rogan26:00

      Hmm.

   10. FZFiras Zahabi26:00

       A lot of people think, "Oh, I'm just gonna jab in and out like Ali." Dude, do you have the attributes that Ali has? He was born with certain attributes, and everybody's born with an attribute for fighting, in my opinion. Everybody got this far because they can fight. Nobody got here, uh, this far without having some innate ability to fight, you know, to defend themselves.

   11. JRJoe Rogan26:18

       Mm-hmm.

   12. FZFiras Zahabi26:18

       So all our body types can defend themselves, but you have to discover how, what works best for that body type.

   13. JRJoe Rogan26:24

       Right. W- Tyson's a perfect example of that.

   14. FZFiras Zahabi26:26

       Exactly.

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:27

       Yeah.

   16. FZFiras Zahabi26:27

       They thought he couldn't make it in the pros.

   17. JRJoe Rogan26:28

       Right. Oh, yeah. For sure.

   18. FZFiras Zahabi26:28

       They thought, "Oh, he's gonna get killed in the pros."

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:30

       Right.

   20. FZFiras Zahabi26:30

       There's never been a short guy. When, when Ali was dancing around people were like, "No, that's not gonna work, he's gonna get tired."

   21. JRJoe Rogan26:35

       (laughs)

   22. FZFiras Zahabi26:36

       When he goes to the heavyweights-

   23. JRJoe Rogan26:37

       Right.

   24. FZFiras Zahabi26:37

       ... heavyweights shouldn't bounce around. And Ali used to spar a lot with lightweights. He'd spar six rounds with lightweights, then six rounds with the heavyweight. Why? Because he would play tag with the lightweight. It was just about speed and movement.

   25. JRJoe Rogan26:47

       Mm-hmm.

   26. FZFiras Zahabi26:48

       You, you move twice as much with a lightweight.

9. 26:50 – 31:14

   Hard sparring, fight readiness, and the recovery equation

   1. JRJoe Rogan26:50

      What is your thoughts on, on hard sparring? Because when you see the Thais and the way they spar, there's some, there's a great benefit in that.

   2. FZFiras Zahabi26:57

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan26:58

      I mean there's a great benefit-

   4. FZFiras Zahabi26:59

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan26:59

      ... in that barely hitting each other shit.

   6. FZFiras Zahabi27:00

      Yeah. I do that tr- I do a tremendous amount of that. You know one thing, when people spar with me, they're like, "Man, you move so, like..." You know, people are like, "It's so seamless the way you move." And I, I do thousands of hours of live rolling and sparring, but a lot of those hours, I would say 80% of them, is very light, because I know the terrain. I just wanna go through the sequences as many times as I can, and when I'm really, really warmed up, then I'll go hard. You know, I'll start talking smack a bit in the gym and I'll, like, "Oh, come on, let's see what you got." And I'll, I'll, I'll tell the guy when it's time to go really hard.

   7. JRJoe Rogan27:29

      Mm-hmm.

   8. FZFiras Zahabi27:29

      And we're having fun with it, you know, for me, having fun i- is really, really important. Now, that's training for longevity, but if you have a fight y- I think you need to do six weeks of hard sparring. Why? Because the speed of the fight is very particular. We need to get to fight speed, the actual speed of the fight, 'cause you might get caught sleeping if you, if you haven't done that.

   9. JRJoe Rogan27:48

      Hmm.

   10. FZFiras Zahabi27:48

       Now, if you have a tremendous amount of fight experience, you don't, you need less of that. So for instance, a Thai who's been fighting since he's eight years old, he can tune up just on the pads and go fight. Why? He's been doing it since the day he can, he can walk, you know, almost. Like you look at a Mayweather, I can get Mayweather ready with just a little mitt work, put him in there, he's gonna be a world champion. Why? It's, it's hardwired. If you look at a baby's brain, h- a baby's brain is not wrinkled like a h- like an adult's brain. It's wrinkled to a s- a small degree. As he goes through his experiences, especially in the first three years of his life, his brain literally gets hardwired and wrinkled, and it gets less and less wrinkled over time. And when you're hardwired to do something, y- the likelihood of you needing to tune up is, is very, is very minimal. Like, for instance, I remember looking at the biography of Mayweather and he was saying when he would go to picnics with his family, his father would bring boxing gloves and he would box with his cousins.

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:42

       (laughs)

   12. FZFiras Zahabi28:42

       They'd literally be punching each other. S- for him, you know, he's, he, he's been doing it so long, the more experienced you are, the less hard sparring you need.

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:50

       Hmm.

   14. FZFiras Zahabi28:51

       The more seasoned you are, the less hard sparring you need. You know what fighting is, you just need a little tune up at the end. So if you look at George, George is a great example. He's super skilled and he's super healthy. Some guys get to the high skill level, but they're broken up, their body's broken, their knee is broken, they can barely, they barely have three or four fights left in them.

   15. JRJoe Rogan29:10

       Right.

   16. FZFiras Zahabi29:11

       Do you wanna get really, really good and then be broken w- when you got there? You finally, you know, you've been cultivating these skills for 15 years, you get there, you get those skills that you wanted, "Oh, I can't use them, why am I..." The machine is broken. You know, I'm th- I'm 38, I feel like when I was 20, uh, personally, because I spar, 80% of my sparring is very slow and relaxed. Like I use a lot of, I train a lot with purple belts, blue belts and purple belts. Why? Because they couldn't hurt me if they tried. I just toy with them til I'm warmed up, I'm flowing, I'm not really working hard, I'm just flowing, I'm just doing my combinations.

   17. JRJoe Rogan29:41

       Mm-hmm.

   18. FZFiras Zahabi29:42

       And then when I really wanna have a good challenge, I'll take one of the, my elite guys, one of my pros, and I'll do one or two rounds with them, you know, I won't burn my machine out, you know? Like imagine driving your car in the red light all the time.

   19. JRJoe Rogan29:52

       Yeah, yeah. Now that's a great way of looking at it. When y- when you guys get ready for a fight, like say if you get George ready for a fight, how much time do you spend on working on his recovery from the workouts, like, like h- do you, you bust out the Tim Tam machine and ice things down? Like how, how aware of you are w- are you guys of like, do you have a, I guess, a regimented program of how to recover from exercise?

   20. FZFiras Zahabi30:17

       Yeah. Recovery is everything. So it's, it's stress plus recovery equals adaptation. Stress plus stress equals detraining-

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:26

       Mm-hmm.

   22. FZFiras Zahabi30:27

       ... and injury.

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:27

       Yeah.

   24. FZFiras Zahabi30:28

       A good trainer, a good trainer, he understands supercompensation, right? You have stress, you have recovery, and then you have a new, uh, level of skill or, uh, ability.If you don't go through the recovery phase, you will not reap the rewards of your training.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       Right.

   26. FZFiras Zahabi30:42

       There has to be a recovery phase.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:43

       Right.

   28. FZFiras Zahabi30:43

       Now, every athlete has a level of recovery that they can, they can achieve. So as you get, as you get more experienced as an athlete, your body can, can... As you become, uh... As you're, as you're more and more fit, I should say, your body can recover from more stress. So I have to gauge how good my s- my student is. It has to be challenging but manageable. If I make it too challenging, I'm red-lining him. He's gonna break. His knee's gonna pop, he's gonna be unmotivated. If it's too easy, he's gonna be bored. I have to find the right amount of stimulus.

10. 31:14 – 37:06

    GSP camp management: incentives, red-lining, and the Dan Hardy concussion story

    1. FZFiras Zahabi31:14

       So when I'm in the practice room, if I see George is just mauling guys and destroying them, I have to make it... I have to scale the workout so that it's harder. But I don't wanna scale it so high is that I injure him and break him or that he made it out of practice by a hair and, uh, he's not motivated to do another camp. You know, we, we reach those high intensity levels periodically throughout the year and they have to be done in a certain way that it's fun. Like, y- you know George was like, uh... You know, he was on your show and he was saying I would try to kill him in the practice room.

    2. JRJoe Rogan31:40

       (laughs)

    3. FZFiras Zahabi31:42

       Now, I... It's true, he's right. But I do it so rarely. I do it so periodically and I make it a joke. That's why, like, what he was trying to say is that I brought in the guys in the, in the room and I was watching them spar with George and they don't wanna touch his face. This is when he was, like, a mega star, like, he was the champ, and nobody wants to try to double leg him. Nobody wants to try to hurt him, because they're like, "I'm not gonna come here in his house and try to show him..." There's a respect thing, there's a, there's a... They're star-struck, you know, these young kids. So I would bring them in and I'd be like, "Listen, guys." I would give a speech. "The first guy to double leg him, the first guy to put him out..." I would put, like, a $5,000 reward. Uh, if they-

    4. JRJoe Rogan32:19

       To knock him out?

    5. FZFiras Zahabi32:19

       ... to w- hurt... "If you knock George out, I'll give you $5,000."

    6. JRJoe Rogan32:22

       Jesus Christ. (laughs)

    7. FZFiras Zahabi32:23

       "If you put George on his back, if you put George on his back, if you take him down and put him on his back, I'll stop the whole practice and praise you for 20 minutes in front of everybody in the gym." And, and, and students don't get praised by me very often.

    8. JRJoe Rogan32:33

       (laughs)

    9. FZFiras Zahabi32:34

       So George would be like, "Oh, man. These guys are, they're coming after me." And he would get riled up. And I would do this periodically. Rarely, right? We're we're we're talking about world cl- world title fight, you know, stuff's on the line. And I need these guys to actually show me where George is missing something. 'Cause when you have this perfect practice and you win all the time-

    10. JRJoe Rogan32:51

        Mm-hmm.

    11. FZFiras Zahabi32:52

        ... what do you work on? Well, nothing went wrong.

    12. JRJoe Rogan32:54

        Right.

    13. FZFiras Zahabi32:54

        There's nothing to fix. So I mean, there are times where we really red line him.

    14. JRJoe Rogan32:58

        Have you ever had anybody knock him out-

    15. FZFiras Zahabi32:59

        No.

    16. JRJoe Rogan32:59

        ... in practice and take that money?

    17. FZFiras Zahabi33:01

        (laughs) Now, uh, he's been dropped once in practice pretty badly and, um, it's a funny story but the, the money wasn't on the line that time. (laughs)

    18. JRJoe Rogan33:09

        Ah.

    19. FZFiras Zahabi33:09

        There was no prize for that. (laughs) One time, he got dropped in practice and, um, I wanted to stop the... I wanted to pull the plug. It was for a world title fight. He was fighting Dan Hardy two weeks before his fight. I, I was sure he was concussed and I said, "George, I'm pulling the, the round." There was one more round. He said to me, "Coach, let me finish the round. I'm okay. Let me finish the next round." And I felt that if I pulled him, I would've killed his confidence.

    20. JRJoe Rogan33:34

        Right.

    21. FZFiras Zahabi33:35

        I would've killed his confidence, totally. So I said, "Okay, you could do the next round." And I told the other guy he was sparring with, "Don't land a single glove." Like, I whispered it to him. "Not a single glove on him. Just take a mauling." And George went in the next round not knowing that the other guy's not allowed to hit him at all.

    22. JRJoe Rogan33:50

        (laughs)

    23. FZFiras Zahabi33:51

        And he just crushes the guy, right? He just, like, mauls him and gets that... And I was really, really grateful for... The other, the other guy was a pro and I was very, very grateful that, you know, he took the beating f- that we asked him to.

    24. JRJoe Rogan34:00

        Right.

    25. FZFiras Zahabi34:01

        And, um, George after was like, "Man, I, I know, I know it went bad in round four, but round five was amazing. I was on fire in round five."

    26. JRJoe Rogan34:07

        (laughs)

    27. FZFiras Zahabi34:07

        I said, "You were. You were, you were." And-

    28. JRJoe Rogan34:10

        That's sneaky shit.

    29. FZFiras Zahabi34:12

        He's like, "I, uh... Uh, well, uh, that was... Round four was n- it was just a fluke, you know. Like this, this, this is what I'm gonna look like. Round five." You know, I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." He's like, "And it's a good thing it's Friday, you know, because I have the day off tomorrow." I'm like, "George, today's Saturday." He's like-

    30. JRJoe Rogan34:25

        Wow.
11. 37:06 – 45:52

    Next-gen MMA and the ‘overwhelm his mind with possibilities’ strategy

    1. JRJoe Rogan37:06

       Yeah. Um, when you look at the, uh, crop of up-and-coming talent, I mean, eh, this is such a crazy time for MMA. I think when you look at these new guys, like, uh, Zabit is one-

    2. FZFiras Zahabi37:18

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan37:18

       ... of my favorite guys to watch-

    4. FZFiras Zahabi37:20

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan37:20

       ... because he's, th- there's this new crop of guys that can do everything and they're, they're so high level by the time you see them. Like, the, the, the first fight I saw of Zabit in, inside the octagon, I wa- you know, I've seen him on video before, but seeing him live, you're like, "Holy shit."

    6. FZFiras Zahabi37:37

       He's amazing.

    7. JRJoe Rogan37:38

       But he's not just amazing, it's like this is, this is this next level.

    8. FZFiras Zahabi37:43

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan37:43

       Like there's another level. Like we've seen these e- these elite fighters and everyone's great at jujitsu. Everyone's got great take-down defense. Everyone knows how to strike. But then you're seeing this new flavor, this like, this, okay, the frequency is now higher and it just seems to me that every year or so, there's these new guys that jump through-

    10. FZFiras Zahabi38:03

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JRJoe Rogan38:03

        ... and you going, "Okay, well now the frequency is quite a bit higher than it was before."

    12. FZFiras Zahabi38:07

        It's seamless.

    13. JRJoe Rogan38:08

        Yeah.

    14. FZFiras Zahabi38:08

        The transitions are more and more seamless-

    15. JRJoe Rogan38:10

        Mm-hmm.

    16. FZFiras Zahabi38:10

        ... which is amazing.

    17. JRJoe Rogan38:11

        Yeah.

    18. FZFiras Zahabi38:11

        Because they're just... You're seeing they're processing it faster.

    19. JRJoe Rogan38:13

        Yeah.

    20. FZFiras Zahabi38:14

        And as they're doing the take-down, like Dimitris is flowing into an arm bar-

    21. JRJoe Rogan38:17

        Right.

    22. FZFiras Zahabi38:17

        ... before the take-down is even finished.

    23. JRJoe Rogan38:19

        Yeah.

    24. FZFiras Zahabi38:19

        And you're like, the next generation is watching that.

    25. JRJoe Rogan38:21

        Mm-hmm.

    26. FZFiras Zahabi38:22

        And they've adopted that now.

    27. JRJoe Rogan38:23

        Yeah.

    28. FZFiras Zahabi38:23

        So they're gonna flow into a transition, into an ar- Like it's, it's, it's getting, it's getting more and more seamless. Their computers are, are, are computing faster and faster information.

    29. JRJoe Rogan38:32

        Yeah.

    30. FZFiras Zahabi38:33

        They're thinking what they're gonna do on the ground before it hits the ground. It's, it's, it's in- it is incredible.
12. 45:52 – 49:38

    Oblique/side kick to the knee: legality, stance tradeoffs, and Muay Thai context

    1. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       Right. Yeah, that's a good point, man. It's, uh, when... Did you see this Stephen Thompson thing with Darren Till where he wants them to outlaw that side kick to the knee?

    2. FZFiras Zahabi46:01

       No, I didn't see that.

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:02

       Well, apparently his knee got really fucked up in the Darren Till fight.

    4. FZFiras Zahabi46:05

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       You know, what do you, what do you think about that side kick-

    6. FZFiras Zahabi46:08

       The oblique?

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:08

       ... to the knee that everyone's doing? Not even the oblique kick, just the front leg side kick to the knee. The same way Yoel Romero used it-

    8. FZFiras Zahabi46:14

       Right.

    9. JRJoe Rogan46:14

       ... on Robert Whittaker, fucked up his knee in the first fight.

    10. FZFiras Zahabi46:16

        Right.

    11. JRJoe Rogan46:16

        And then Whittaker used it on Romero, like, right away-

    12. FZFiras Zahabi46:19

        Beautiful.

    13. JRJoe Rogan46:19

        ... in the second fight-

    14. FZFiras Zahabi46:20

        Beautiful.

    15. JRJoe Rogan46:20

        ... to fuck up his knee.

    16. FZFiras Zahabi46:21

        Mm-hmm. Um, I think it's a legitimate kick.

    17. JRJoe Rogan46:25

        Yeah, I think so too.

    18. FZFiras Zahabi46:25

        It's a legitimate, 100% kick. It, it allows the smaller, weaker guy to hurt the bigger, stronger guy.

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:31

        Well, and in the case of Darren Till, it allows the bigger, stronger guy-

    20. FZFiras Zahabi46:34

        Yes.

    21. JRJoe Rogan46:34

        ... to hurt the other bigger, stronger guy.

    22. FZFiras Zahabi46:35

        Of course.

    23. JRJoe Rogan46:36

        (laughs)

    24. FZFiras Zahabi46:36

        I- i- if it works for the smaller guy, it works for the bigger guy.

    25. JRJoe Rogan46:37

        Yeah.

    26. FZFiras Zahabi46:38

        Right? So... (laughs)

    27. JRJoe Rogan46:38

        It's just a legit... It's, I think so too. It's a legit technique-

    28. FZFiras Zahabi46:41

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan46:41

        ... you have to prepare for.

    30. FZFiras Zahabi46:42

        To... Yeah, exactly. You're standing in a way that... You, you see, when somebody's standing sideways-
13. 49:38 – 1:01:21

    Karate blitz, back kicks, and cross-style innovation (Wonderboy, MVP, Raymond Daniels)

    1. JRJoe Rogan49:38

       Yeah, his style's very unique and I'm, I'm, uh, fascinated with him and I'm really fascinated right now with Michael Venom Page.

    2. FZFiras Zahabi49:44

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan49:44

       Been watching... Do you see his pro boxing fights?

    4. FZFiras Zahabi49:47

       No, I didn't see.

    5. JRJoe Rogan49:48

       Right now he's a can crusher.

    6. FZFiras Zahabi49:49

       Actually I saw one, I saw one, yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan49:50

       He's a can crusher. He's, he's fighting these guys and they're setting him up for these-

    8. FZFiras Zahabi49:54

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan49:54

       ... spectacular knockouts.

    10. FZFiras Zahabi49:56

        Right.

    11. JRJoe Rogan49:56

        But it's still that blitz point karate style that Raymond Daniels has-

    12. FZFiras Zahabi50:01

        Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan50:01

        ... that a lot of these guys have and Raymond's obviously-

    14. FZFiras Zahabi50:03

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan50:03

        ... adapted very well for kickboxing.

    16. FZFiras Zahabi50:05

        I've trained with Raymond quite a bit.

    17. JRJoe Rogan50:07

        He's a beast.

    18. FZFiras Zahabi50:07

        You gotta get him on the show, man. He's such a great guy.

    19. JRJoe Rogan50:09

        Oh, I would love to.

    20. FZFiras Zahabi50:09

        Yeah, I have to connect you two.

    21. JRJoe Rogan50:10

        Okay.

    22. FZFiras Zahabi50:11

        He's amazing.

    23. JRJoe Rogan50:11

        Yeah, we had talked a little bit in the past-

    24. FZFiras Zahabi50:14

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JRJoe Rogan50:14

        ... about perhaps doing something on Twitter.

    26. FZFiras Zahabi50:15

        He knocks guys out in about 90 seconds on a regular basis. And how does he do it? He does it with a back kick. He's the master-

    27. JRJoe Rogan50:23

        Yeah.

    28. FZFiras Zahabi50:24

        ... at finding a place for the back kick. You don't wanna get hit with his back kick. Like I know-

    29. JRJoe Rogan50:27

        Mm-hmm.

    30. FZFiras Zahabi50:27

        ... you got an incredible back kick, I bet you it's more powerful than his, okay? But I'll tell you one thing, he will fit that back kick-

Episode duration: 3:18:24