The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #39 with Donald "Cowboy" Cerrone
At a glance
WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT
Cowboy Cerrone torches Jackson-Wink, near-death cave dive, psychedelics
- Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone joins Joe Rogan for a wide‑ranging, raw conversation that centers on his painful break with the Jackson-Wink MMA gym, driven by money, loyalty conflicts, and the Mike Perry fight. Cerrone details how the gym culture changed from an elite, tight-knit team into what he calls a “puppy mill,” and why he built his own BMF Ranch to regain control of his training. The episode then veers into his intense near-death cave-diving experience, his transformative use of DMT and psilocybin to address fear and performance anxiety, and his relentless appetite for extreme pursuits—racing, mounted shooting, hunting, and future movie work. Throughout, the discussion touches on loyalty, ego, mental health, drugs, parenting, and how to live a full, authentic life while navigating public backlash and modern sensitivities.
IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING
5 ideasLoyalty and transparent money dynamics are foundational to long-term fighter–coach relationships.
Cerrone felt betrayed when Mike Winkeljohn chose to corner Mike Perry over him for financial reasons, especially after more than a decade at the gym; he argues fighters must know exactly who gets paid, for what, and whether values align.
Gym culture directly affects fighter safety, development, and career longevity.
He criticizes Jackson-Wink’s open-door “puppy mill” model—randoms sparring with pros, constant hard live rounds, revolving-door coaches—as a recipe for unnecessary injuries and declining results, reinforcing the need for structured, controlled environments.
Elite performers still need a ‘general’ to direct training and protect them from themselves.
Despite being experienced and self-motivated, Cerrone admits he overtrains, chases adrenaline, and needs a strong head coach to say no, manage volume, and handle strategic decisions so he can just be “a soldier.”
Psychedelics can be powerful tools for confronting fear, ego, and performance anxiety when used intentionally.
Through guided DMT and high-dose mushroom experiences, Cerrone confronted his fear of losing and public failure, gaining perspective that one fight doesn’t define his worth and that life, family, and experiences matter more than outcomes.
Near-death experiences radically clarify priorities but don’t always reduce risk-taking.
His detailed cave-diving story—getting lost in zero visibility, rationing air, planning how he’d die, and then finding an exit—sharply exposed his mortality, yet he still chooses to keep diving and seeking intense risks with better systems and partners.
WORDS WORTH SAVING
5 quotes“It’s turned into a puppy mill. It’s all about money now, not the old Jackson’s.”
— Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone
“I need someone to tell me, ‘You crazy bastard, slow down.’ I can’t be the general and the soldier.”
— Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone
“In that cave I was deciding how I was gonna die. Writing a letter to my kid in my head.”
— Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone
“Psychedelics pour water on the dirt and clean out the bullshit. They remind you it’s all love, friends, experiences.”
— Joe Rogan
“I’m gonna fight till I don’t love it anymore. The day I wake up and say ‘nah,’ that’s when I’m done.”
— Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone
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