JRE MMA Show #40 with Eddie Bravo

Joe Rogan 0:00 Ready?

Eddie Bravo 0:00 Um, (sighs) let's do it.

Joe Rogan 0:03 Four, three, two, one. Boom! And we're live.

Eddie Bravo 0:08 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 0:08 You were just telling me- you were just telling me how your son is getting into Bruce Lee. 'Cause we were looking at this, uh ... Shout out to, uh ... How do you pronounce his name correctly?

Eddie Bravo 0:18 Bruce Lee.

Joe Rogan 0:19 No, pla- Plastisel. Plastisel dude.

Eddie Bravo 0:21 (laughs)

Young Jamie 0:21 Um, I don't know-

Joe Rogan 0:22 I've only seen it written.

Young Jamie 0:23 ... which of the two actually made it. But yeah, Plastisel, I believe is the name of it, yeah.

Eddie Bravo 0:25 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 0:25 Yeah, but, but I mean, how do you pronounce the artist name?

Young Jamie 0:28 I think it's Phong.

Joe Rogan 0:29 Is it Phong?

Young Jamie 0:29 Phong Tran, I think is his name.

Joe Rogan 0:29 Yeah. Shout out to Phong. This thing is the shit. His art is amazing, these little Plastisel things. Look at this-

Eddie Bravo 0:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:35 ... Rory MacDonald, how great is that?

Eddie Bravo 0:37 Yeah, th- the whole lineup's amazing.

Joe Rogan 0:39 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 0:39 I mean those are-

Joe Rogan 0:39 Biggy, sunglasses come off.

Eddie Bravo 0:41 ... legends. Nothing but legends.

Joe Rogan 0:42 Legends.

Eddie Bravo 0:43 But y- yeah. Um, you know, I wanted-

Joe Rogan 0:45 How old's your son now?

Eddie Bravo 0:46 He's six now. And you hear these, uh, stories-

Joe Rogan 0:50 (coughs)

Eddie Bravo 0:50 ... um, constantly about people remembering the first time they saw a Bruce Lee movie.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Right.

Eddie Bravo 0:57 "It's so epic. I'll never forget. My dad took me to the theater, blew my mind." Everyone's got a story. Joey's got his, the first time h- he saw Bruce Lee. So I wanted to make sure I didn't do that too early, 'cause then he would forget, you know? 'Cause-

Joe Rogan 1:11 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 1:11 ... he forgets special ass moments we had together from like three years ago. And I'm like, "You don't remember that?" You know, it's so-

Joe Rogan 1:17 'Cause he's only five, right?

Eddie Bravo 1:18 He's six. He's six.

Joe Rogan 1:20 Well, six. Imagine how quick your brain is growing in th- in that amount of years.

Eddie Bravo 1:22 Yeah. He forgot a lot of shit, you know? But anyways, uh, so I thought maybe I'm gonna hit him with the... I'm gonna sit him down and, and, and put on Enter the Dragon and blow his fucking mind.

Joe Rogan 1:35 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 1:35 But I don't wanna do a tour. Like, "When do I do it?"

Young Jamie 1:36 (screams)

Eddie Bravo 1:37 I'm like thinking, "Maybe I, I could even wait til he's ten or eight or whatever," you know? But he's been doing karate since he was three, so about three years now he's been doing karate. And he took a nunchuck workshop class at that... So he's got his little, you know, those padded nunchucks. He fucking loves those things, man. And I thought, "Shit, he's getting into the nunchucks. It might be a time to drop Bruce Lee on his ass right now."

Joe Rogan 2:00 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 2:00 You know what I mean? I don't want him to get twisted, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 2:03 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 2:03 'Cause he starts-

Joe Rogan 2:04 Right.

Eddie Bravo 2:04 ... he starts talking about Jackie Chan and shit like that, and I'm like, "Ugh!"

Joe Rogan 2:08 Has he seen anybody do it on video or only learned it from a class?

Eddie Bravo 2:11 This is, this is what happened. So he's, he's all into nunchucks, he's beating me up with them all the time. He loves nunchucks. And I, and I said, um... Oh, then I wore one of those Roots of Fight shirts.

Joe Rogan 2:20 Oh.

Eddie Bravo 2:20 And it was Bruce Lee with nunchucks, right?

Joe Rogan 2:23 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 2:24 And he looked at my shirt and he said, "Daddy, who's the guy with the nunchucks?" And I thought, "Okay, it's time."

Joe Rogan 2:31 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 2:32 It's time. (laughs) "Son, sit down." So you know kids are so easily brainwashed. I can get my kid into Satanism.

Young Jamie 2:43 That's funny.

Joe Rogan 2:43 You ever seen this little kid?

Eddie Bravo 2:44 Yeah, yeah. He's amazing. He's amazing.

Joe Rogan 2:46 He's got the Bruce Lee outfit on-

Eddie Bravo 2:47 Hey.

Joe Rogan 2:47 ... and everything. The jumpsuit.

Eddie Bravo 2:49 Dr- dr-

Joe Rogan 2:49 This kid's a beast.

Eddie Bravo 2:50 He's a- amazing. And he's got-

Joe Rogan 2:52 What-

Eddie Bravo 2:52 ... he's got, uh, the Game of Death sequence down.

Joe Rogan 2:54 It says, uh, the video is, "My son," and then in parentheses, uh, "five-year-old acting Bruce Lee's nunchuck a scene."

Eddie Bravo 3:03 Yeah. Yeah, he reenacts the whole thing note for note. I think he was on like America's Got Talent or some shit too.

Joe Rogan 3:09 Wow.

Eddie Bravo 3:09 So I sat him down and I, and I explained to him, I go, "The master of the nunchucks, the number one guy..." You know, 'cause l- like I was, like I was saying earlier, you could get kids to believe in anything. You could brain... I could, I could get my son into Satan easily. He'd be all a- about Lucifer. Boom. I got him into the Browns quick.

Joe Rogan 3:29 But they're little kids.

Eddie Bravo 3:29 Yeah, little kids.

Joe Rogan 3:30 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 3:30 You know-

Joe Rogan 3:30 Very malleable.

Eddie Bravo 3:31 Yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 3:32 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 3:32 He's, he's so into the Dodgers because his grandpa is into the Dodgers. So he's all about the Dodgers. And I got him into the Browns. He's all into the Browns now too, because I'm...

Joe Rogan 3:42 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 3:42 I could get him into anything.

Joe Rogan 3:43 Right.

Eddie Bravo 3:43 So I sat him down and I say, "You are about... I'm gonna sit you down and, and I'm gonna show you the master of the nunchucks, and it's Bruce Lee. He's number one."

Joe Rogan 3:52 (singing)

Eddie Bravo 3:53 Yeah, I go... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:54 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 3:54 He's the great- and I... "He's the greatest martial artist of all time." I broke him. And I sat him down-

Joe Rogan 4:02 Damn. (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 4:02 ... and I put him in front of the TV-

Joe Rogan 4:04 Dude, you should've filmed this.

Eddie Bravo 4:05 I did.

Joe Rogan 4:06 You filmed the whole thing? You filmed you saying it to him?

Eddie Bravo 4:08 No, I didn't film that, but I filmed-

Joe Rogan 4:10 Filmed his reaction?

Eddie Bravo 4:10 I filmed him watching Bruce Lee, um, uh... First I showed him the greatest nunchuck scenes of all time with Bruce Lee, that you can go to YouTube and you can get... There's, there's compilations. They put together the one from, uh, the stuff in Enter the Dragon, the stuff in, uh, Chinese Connection, uh, uh, Way of the Dragon or Return of the Dragon. And, uh, so I sat him down, I go, "I'm gonna blitz him with this shit."

Joe Rogan 4:35 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 4:35 "I'm gonna make sure that whenever he thinks about fucking nunchucks, he knows that Bruce Lee's the master, right?" So he's just completely blown away. Then after I showed him all the nunchuck scenes, we s- I sat him down and I wanted to show him the greatest fight scene of all time, Bruce Lee versus Chuck fucking Norris.

Joe Rogan 4:52 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 4:52 Come on, man. So I just wanted to leave that just in his DNA.

Joe Rogan 4:56 Mmm.

Eddie Bravo 4:56 And I filmed that. I filmed him watching, uh, Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee. And he always wants to know... He w- he loves, he loved Bruce Lee instantly. And he, he o- he needs to know who wins the fight. So he's like, "Daddy, does Bruce Lee win?" I go-

Joe Rogan 5:11 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 5:11 "He always wins, son. He always wins." And but my natural reaction-

Joe Rogan 5:16 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 5:16 ... 'cause he, he's constantly asking questions, he's constantly, "Does he win?" My natural reaction would be just watch, watch, you gotta watch this.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Right.

Eddie Bravo 5:22 'Cause it's gonna be sweeter if you watch it.

Joe Rogan 5:24 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 5:24 And you go through the ups and downs. And he goes, "No, Daddy, you need to tell me now."

Joe Rogan 5:28 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 5:28 And I go, "No, you're gonna like it more if you just watch it. You got-" "No, Daddy! Does Bruce Lee win?" He wants to fucking know.

Joe Rogan 5:35 Yeah, man. You don't wanna be disappointed.

Eddie Bravo 5:38 Yeah. So he got-

Joe Rogan 5:38 Six years old?

Eddie Bravo 5:39 Yeah, he got completely blown away. So a week later, a week later I go, "Today you're gonna watch the greatest martial arts movie of all time." "Enter the Dragon 'cause it's Bruce Lee, Dad, isn't it?" I go, "Yes, it's Bruce Lee."

Joe Rogan 5:54 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 5:54 So we sat him down, we put on fi- and he can't stop asking fucking questions about every guy. "Okay, Daddy, who are the good guys? And who are the bad guys? Is he a bad guy or is he a good guy?" So we got it down, the three main good guys. You know, Bruce Lee is the main good guy. Uh, um, Williams was, um, uh-... his name escapes me, the Black famous martial artist. Jim Kelly, Jim Kelly.

Joe Rogan 6:20 Oh, wow-

Eddie Bravo 6:20 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:20 ... I forgot about Jim Kelly.

Eddie Bravo 6:21 Yeah, hey, Jim Kelly's awesome. And, uh, he did die in the movie, which, I mean, they were doing that shit back then. You know what I mean? Uh-

Joe Rogan 6:29 They were killing good guys.

Eddie Bravo 6:30 And then Roper, John Saxon, he was the third-

Joe Rogan 6:33 That's right, John Saxon.

Eddie Bravo 6:33 ... good guy. Yeah, it was Roper, Williams and Bruce Lee and they were all-

Joe Rogan 6:37 Look at that.

Eddie Bravo 6:37 ... they were the good guys. And the bad guys, do you remember the bad guys' names?

Joe Rogan 6:40 No.

Eddie Bravo 6:41 Han was the, the, uh, the dude on the top left. He's the-

Joe Rogan 6:44 He's the guy with the claws?

Eddie Bravo 6:46 ... former Shaolin monk who went bad-

Joe Rogan 6:49 Oh.

Eddie Bravo 6:49 ... and started selling heroin on his island and-

Joe Rogan 6:52 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 6:52 ... and, and, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 6:54 Oh.

Eddie Bravo 6:54 ... prostitution rings and all that shit.

Joe Rogan 6:56 Dude, I completely forgot the plot of this movie.

Eddie Bravo 6:58 Are you kidding me?

Joe Rogan 6:59 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 6:59 It's the greatest fucking plot ever.

Joe Rogan 7:00 Well, I r- I remember watching it-

Eddie Bravo 7:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:02 ... but it, it's ... You know, I didn't take it seriously, I always thought it was fun. I always, I always looked at it not like, "Holy shit, we're gonna see this wild action movie."

Eddie Bravo 7:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:11 I always thought of it as ... 'Cause by the time I, I watched it, it was kinda campy. I mean, I'm sure I watched it when I was a little kid-

Eddie Bravo 7:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:16 ... but I don't remember it too much.

Eddie Bravo 7:17 Yeah, you gotta go back and watch the whole thing-

Joe Rogan 7:19 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 7:19 ... 'cause everyo- you know, that's, that's m- most people's common reaction. Like, you just remem-

Joe Rogan 7:23 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 7:23 ... you remember the, the scene with Han with the razor hand.

Joe Rogan 7:26 That's all I remember.

Eddie Bravo 7:27 Remember?

Joe Rogan 7:27 (laughs) Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 7:27 He had a razor hand, he had a claw hand. You remember Bolo Yeung and they're fighting outside-

Joe Rogan 7:32 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 7:32 ... in the tournament.

Joe Rogan 7:33 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 7:33 You know? You remember all that shit. You remember, um, uh, Williams, uh, getting killed, they hung him.

Joe Rogan 7:40 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 7:40 Uh, you, you remember Williams fighting Han. There's certain scenes everyone will, will remember and you just ... You forget about the little scenes in the plot. So I sit down my son-

Joe Rogan 7:50 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 7:50 I sat down my son and we're watching this and my mom, uh, uh, his mom's like, "It's appropriate for, for a six-year-old, right? It's not gonna get too crazy?" I go, "It's fine. It's just a bunch of karate. No, it's, it's fine." So she's all like, "Hmm."

Joe Rogan 8:04 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 8:04 So we're sitting there and he can't stop asking goddamn questions.

Joe Rogan 8:07 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 8:08 He can't stop asking goddamn questions. The bad guys are: Han's the main guy, O'Hara, Bob Wall, remember him?

Joe Rogan 8:14 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 8:15 Everybody remembers he had the scar on his face.

Joe Rogan 8:16 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 8:17 And they, everyone remembers that he, uh, was ... Him and his gang were chasing Bruce Lee's sister in the movie. And they cornered her and she had to kill herself. She just killed herself before they could, like, rape her or whatever.

Joe Rogan 8:31 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 8:31 People r- people remember that. That's a- another classic scene. Uh, but you don't remember all ... You don't think about all the, the shit in between, man, 'cause the plot, the plot of the story is Han lives on an island and he has ... He does a lot of illegal shit. He runs, uh, uh, heroin and, uh, prostitution through his island, right? And, um, he has a tournament, like, once a year and he invites all the greatest martial artists, um, on Earth and he tries to recruit them. He sits them all down and he, and he shows them his, uh, like, underground operation going on.

Joe Rogan 9:06 Oh, that's right.

Eddie Bravo 9:06 You know what I mean? So he tried to talk Roper into it, he tried to talk Williams into it. They're all-

Joe Rogan 9:10 That's right.

Eddie Bravo 9:11 And, uh, Roper almost went for it 'cause he was a kinda-

Joe Rogan 9:13 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 9:13 ... he's a good guy, but he was, like, a gambler. You know what I mean? He's kinda shady.

Joe Rogan 9:17 For sure.

Eddie Bravo 9:17 But at the end, he's like, "Fuck this. I ain't gonna do this shit." So that's what he does. And, and he called in Bruce Lee too, uh, uh, and he was gonna try to recruit Bruce Lee. But the CIA got ahold of Bruce Lee first.

Joe Rogan 9:31 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 9:31 Mm-hmm. Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:33 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 9:33 (laughs) Seriously.

Joe Rogan 9:35 Oh.

Eddie Bravo 9:35 So they get ahold of Bruce Lee-

Joe Rogan 9:37 Ugh.

Eddie Bravo 9:37 ... and they sit him down in a dark room and they're playing a projector. And they're showing, you know, uh ... They want Bruce Lee to go in there undercover-

Joe Rogan 9:44 Psst.

Eddie Bravo 9:44 ... to uncover all the, um, uh-

Joe Rogan 9:48 Karate fights.

Eddie Bravo 9:49 ... the, the, the crime and all the stuff that was going on.

Joe Rogan 9:51 What else are they doing? Selling drugs?

Eddie Bravo 9:52 Yes, drugs and prostitution, and, um, and doing mind control on, uh-

Joe Rogan 9:58 Oh my God.

Eddie Bravo 9:58 So wha- so I'm sitting there watching it. He wants to know who the bad guys are. Bolo, Bolo's a bad guy. O'Hara, who's Bob Wall is a bad guy, and then Han's the main bad guy. So he's constantly asking questions and then boom, you forget about the scenes where, um, uh, Han would ... Has like a madam and he's got all these hookers. There's a hooker scene. You forget about the hooker scene. They send, like, five girls to Williams, who's a good guy, and Roper to try to corrupt them. You know what I mean? And boom, as soon i- they're all in their gowns and, and in robes, and Williams is, like, in a, in a robe. And s- I, I grabbed the remote and just started hitting fast-forward. And, uh, my son's all, "Wait, wait. What's going on here? What's going on here, Dad? Why are you fast-forwarding?" I'm going, "Nothing's going on." "What are they doing?" "They're getting ready to go to sleep, just forget about that scene." Boom, you for- you forget that there's a ... Is this the scene?

Joe Rogan 10:46 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 10:46 There it is right there. And there's titties and everything. But, um ...

Joe Rogan 10:52 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 10:54 Yeah, he got bl-

Joe Rogan 10:54 (sighs) .

Eddie Bravo 10:54 He was blown away and, uh, mission accomplished. He's, he's Bruce Lee's number one in, uh, to him and ... But I made a mistake. The next week, I'm, I made him sit down and watch Return of the Dragon, which the end scene was a great scene with Chuck Norris in the old Rome Colosseum.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 11:12 But the whole movie before that is so bad.

Joe Rogan 11:16 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 11:18 It's so bad. And Bruce Lee, he, he, he directed it-

Joe Rogan 11:22 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 11:22 ... and, uh, and wrote it, and it was, uh, it's atrocious. It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 11:28 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 11:28 It's so bad.

Joe Rogan 11:30 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 11:30 (laughs) Except for the Chuck scene.

Joe Rogan 11:32 Fight scene, yeah.

Eddie Bravo 11:32 Yeah, except for the end, but it's like high school kids put together, that movie.

Joe Rogan 11:36 Damn.

Eddie Bravo 11:36 It's terrible.

Joe Rogan 11:37 I'm gonna have to go back and watch that.

Eddie Bravo 11:38 Terrible.

Joe Rogan 11:38 Yo, you know what we should do? We should do a fight companion. We've gotta like-

Eddie Bravo 11:43 And watch Enter the Dragon?

Joe Rogan 11:45 Yeah, let's do that.

Eddie Bravo 11:45 That would be fucking great, dude. Are you kidding?

Joe Rogan 11:47 Come on, man. A fight companion and watch Enter the Dragon.

Eddie Bravo 11:49 Look at this, look at this scene. So they're, uh, it takes place in Italy. His, uh, one of his, like, think his uncle or just-

Joe Rogan 11:57 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 11:58 ... or just somebody he knows has a Chinese restaurant in Italy. And the Italian mob, these guys, these are the goons, they're trying to run him out of business and, and, uh, control their business or, or pay them off to take the building or something. And they're, they're resisting in Italy, so they send, uh, Bruce Lee from Hong Kong to handle the mob in Italy.

Joe Rogan 12:22 Dude, this looks so corny.

Eddie Bravo 12:23 It's-... fucking bad, dude. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:26 So, what do you think happened? You think Bruce Lee was just partying too much, doing a little blow, having a good time out on the town, being a big Hollywood star, puts together this movie and just got a little crazy with it?

Eddie Bravo 12:36 Y- you know what?

Joe Rogan 12:36 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 12:36 This is before he blew up, though.

Joe Rogan 12:38 Oh.

Eddie Bravo 12:38 This is... Because he did this movie, he did, um, Big Boss, Chinese Connection, and this one was his third one. And then after this is when Warner Brothers came in and signed him, that's when they did Enter the Dragon, that was his last one. Enter the Dragon was, uh, had a, had a budget. This didn't have really any budget, this is a, like just cheap Chinese production, you know?

Joe Rogan 12:58 It's crazy when you think that there was really no one like him before him.

Eddie Bravo 13:02 Look at there's Chuck Norris waiting (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 13:04 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 13:04 ... waiting for him. Look at that. Th-

Young Jamie 13:06 He gives him the thumbs down.

Joe Rogan 13:08 You know, when you, when you think about... There- there was no kind of movies like this before this.

Eddie Bravo 13:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:13 This fight scene, greatest fight scene, worst movie.

Eddie Bravo 13:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:16 How about the grab of the chest hair? He pulls a chunk of it out.

Eddie Bravo 13:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:19 Look at that, "Oh shit, I got your chest hair, bitch."

Eddie Bravo 13:24 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 13:24 I mean, it's- it's funny watching it with no volume too because it's so corny. It looks so fake.

Eddie Bravo 13:29 And- and it's all overdubbed and- and it's- it's godawful.

Joe Rogan 13:33 But dude, his martial arts technique-

Eddie Bravo 13:36 Bruce Lee-

Joe Rogan 13:36 ... especially when you think about the fact this was what? 1974 is when that came out?

Young Jamie 13:40 1976.

Eddie Bravo 13:41 No, this is... That was like '71.

Joe Rogan 13:42 '71?

Eddie Bravo 13:43 It was probably released-

Joe Rogan 13:44 I think it was-

Eddie Bravo 13:44 ... in '76, but he died in '73.

Joe Rogan 13:46 He had incredible technique, like really good technique. Like his kicking technique, especially for back then.

Eddie Bravo 13:53 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 13:53 You know, I think, uh, because of the YouTube and shit, there's- there's so many guys out there that they're doing like, um, (smacks lips) these jump spinning 360 wheel kicks. There was some guy that Winkle John Jackson had on his, uh, um, the, uh, Instagram page. And it's, uh, a Korean gentleman doing some fucking ridiculous shit just like g- jumping th- 360 degree wheel kicks and like a- a series of, um, cartwheels flying through the air and doing all these things. Like, none of this was ever in the movies before, you know, until like when? Like maybe Jet Li, I guess? No, Ong-Bak, right? 'Cause they're- they're next level in terms of like athleticism.

Eddie Bravo 14:36 Uh, I mean there's that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Joe Rogan 14:38 Right, but that's all like-

Eddie Bravo 14:39 I mean, that's- that's mystical-

Joe Rogan 14:40 Yeah, that's mystical shit.

Eddie Bravo 14:41 ... and magic.

Joe Rogan 14:41 This guy's actually doing this. This is just a video of him. He starts out normal, throws like a bunch of front kicks, throws a bunch of sidekicks, and then he starts doing jumping wheel kicks, 360 wheel kicks, tornado kicks. He's just fucking flying through the air and flipping through the air, aerial cartwheel kicks and you're like, "Whoa!" People can do shit now and they do stuff in like in- in martial arts films. Th- the techniques just way better, they're just way better.

Eddie Bravo 15:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:07 He's got better at it.

Eddie Bravo 15:08 Can you put that- that fight scene back up with Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris?

Joe Rogan 15:11 See if you can find that video first, what you're looking for, just while we're...

Young Jamie 15:14 Talk about like the one that gets thrown.

Eddie Bravo 15:15 The one- the one thing about Bruce Lee...

Young Jamie 15:16 With all the pads and he flies around.

Joe Rogan 15:17 No, no. No, no, no. It's just a guy throwing kicks in the air. He's just throwing kicks in the air.

Young Jamie 15:21 Mm.

Joe Rogan 15:22 It's on, uh, the- Jackson Wink. Yeah, it's Jackson Winklejohn-

Young Jamie 15:26 I know. I just looked at three different-

Joe Rogan 15:27 ... Instagram page.

Young Jamie 15:28 I don't know which one it's from.

Eddie Bravo 15:28 Oh, this guy's doing it in MMA?

Joe Rogan 15:30 No, no, he's doing it in the air.

Young Jamie 15:31 Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:31 He's doing it in the air.

Young Jamie 15:32 Which of their pages should I open up?

Eddie Bravo 15:33 Is he planning to use it in MM- in MMA you think?

Joe Rogan 15:36 You did the top one, Jackson Wink MMA.

Young Jamie 15:37 I didn't do that.

Joe Rogan 15:38 That one. Check that one out. There's a Korean dude if you keep going down. I don't know if he's planning on using it in MMA. Where the fuck is it? Goddamn it.

Young Jamie 15:50 I didn't see anything.

Joe Rogan 15:52 Hmm. Maybe they were commenting on it? Fuck, somebody had it up. (coughs) Sorry. Anyway.

Eddie Bravo 15:59 But with Bruce Lee fight scenes, what I like about them is you could see him... Although, you know, him beating up 50 guys at a time, you know, that, you know, how- how real can that be? But he does w- on one-on-one fights, he does a lot of feinting.

Joe Rogan 16:16 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 16:16 He'll do boxing stuff, he'll do wrestling, he'll do jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 16:20 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 16:20 You see him mix it up and he's trying to make it, uh, a- a lot more realistic. Like the, you know, then you have, uh, your classic kung fu theater type movies where they're just like, "Ah, cha, cha, cha, pa, cha, cha."

Joe Rogan 16:32 Right.

Eddie Bravo 16:35 "Cha, cha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha." You're like-

Joe Rogan 16:37 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 16:37 ... that shit is, just gets old.

Joe Rogan 16:38 Those movies are so crazy.

Eddie Bravo 16:39 Bruce Lee, Bruce Lee will dance around, he'll throw a jab, feint, kick you in the leg, f- fake low, go high and knock you out. He does that against, uh, Chuck Norris-

Joe Rogan 16:48 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 16:48 ... in- in- in, uh, Way of the Dragon.

Joe Rogan 16:51 And if you go back to 1970, like that kind of martial art technique, (clears throat) I mean he was, he was amazing. He was also the first guy that figured out how to put a bunch of martial arts together. And just forget about, "I'm judo, you're karate."

Eddie Bravo 17:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Forget about that. Just- just- just use everything that works.

Eddie Bravo 17:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Everything from everywhere.

Eddie Bravo 17:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:11 That was heresy back then.

Eddie Bravo 17:13 I mean, he- he might have been, um, (sighs) he may have been the first guy to do that, really. I mean-

Joe Rogan 17:19 One of, for sure. One of, for sure.

Eddie Bravo 17:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:22 He's without a doubt like the... I think there's two, arguably two of the most important figures ever in martial arts. I think he might be number one and the other one is Helio Gracie. You really think about it, it's one guy tries to figure out how to beat men who are bigger than him, has a bunch of kids, they all turn out to be fucking savage killers.

Eddie Bravo 17:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:45 I mean, what are the odds, you know?

Eddie Bravo 17:46 It's the craziest family of all time.

Joe Rogan 17:48 Craziest family of all time.

Eddie Bravo 17:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:50 And if you think about it, the impacts-

Eddie Bravo 17:52 But in a crazy, in a good way. Crazy in a good way.

Joe Rogan 17:53 But in the best way possible.

Eddie Bravo 17:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:55 With 100% respect. I mean, Rickson, Royce, Royler, Helsen, you know, what the fuck, man?

Eddie Bravo 18:01 And there was different sides and even the-

Joe Rogan 18:04 Yes.

Eddie Bravo 18:04 ... Gracies had, uh, you know, conflict within each other. It- it's- it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 18:08 But all assassins.

Eddie Bravo 18:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:10 A family of super assassins.

Eddie Bravo 18:12 Killers. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:12 And then Royce who's another... I mean, it's- it's almost like Royce, although it came from Helio, he's almost as important. If he doesn't win that first Ultimate Fighting Championship, we don't- we don't get the same impact.

Eddie Bravo 18:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:26 He has to win.

Eddie Bravo 18:27 Imagine if he would have lost the first fight.

Joe Rogan 18:29 What if he got head kicked?

Eddie Bravo 18:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:31 You know, what if he got in there with some guy who's done this before-

Eddie Bravo 18:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:33 ... and he gets head kicked?

Eddie Bravo 18:34 Patrick Smith could have fucked him up.

Joe Rogan 18:35 Fuck, yeah. He could have.

Eddie Bravo 18:36 Yeah, he could have fucked him up.

Joe Rogan 18:37 That, that could have been... I- if the lineups were different, that could have happened.

Eddie Bravo 18:39 Dude, are you kidding? The, the, the Royce Gracie movie and it ends after UFC 2, it ends... Patrick Smith, that's the perfect ending right there. That guy-

Joe Rogan 18:48 Did he ever... He fought Patrick Smith. Didn't Roy- Royce fight Patrick Smith?

Eddie Bravo 18:52 Yeah, he choked him out.

Joe Rogan 18:53 He choked him out?

Eddie Bravo 18:54 He choked him or he arm barred him.

Joe Rogan 18:55 Was it the second time they were in the UFC together?

Eddie Bravo 18:58 No.

Joe Rogan 18:58 It was the first one?

Eddie Bravo 18:59 Yeah. No, it was UFC 2. Royce was on one side of the bracket, Pat Smith was on the other side.

Joe Rogan 19:05 That's right.

Eddie Bravo 19:05 You know, uh, black, a th- you know, killer Muay Thai guy-

Joe Rogan 19:10 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 19:10 ... fucking g- like, what he did to, uh, Scott Morris.

Joe Rogan 19:13 The ninja guy.

Eddie Bravo 19:14 Yeah. Oh-

Joe Rogan 19:15 Dude.

Eddie Bravo 19:15 Dude.

Joe Rogan 19:16 Dude.

Eddie Bravo 19:16 Man-

Joe Rogan 19:16 Dude, forget-

Eddie Bravo 19:16 ... that's a movie.

Joe Rogan 19:17 ... if you forget how good he is-

Eddie Bravo 19:17 That's a movie right there.

Joe Rogan 19:19 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 19:19 UFC 2 is a goddamn movie.

Joe Rogan 19:21 Well, Patrick Smith was a real legit top-level kickboxer. Like he was a real dangerous kickboxer.

Eddie Bravo 19:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:28 Like you, you watch his striking. I mean, that guy was explosive, super powerful-

Eddie Bravo 19:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:33 ... and ruthless, man. When he got on top of that dude and was elbowing him into oblivion.

Eddie Bravo 19:37 Uh, Backlund, Backlunds-

Joe Rogan 19:39 That shit was ruthless.

Eddie Bravo 19:39 ... they didn't know exactly when to stop a fight.

Joe Rogan 19:41 Yeah, they just let it go.

Eddie Bravo 19:41 They weren't sure. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:42 Big John was like, "The guy's still alive."

Eddie Bravo 19:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:46 (laughs) Yeah. Yeah, but, but Roy- the point is that Royce did win. He didn't get kicked. Took the guys down, choked them all out, and all of us were like, "What?" And then y- it's almost... If you go to martial arts, you look at like the whole history of martial arts and then you hit 1993 and it goes like this. (mimics sound effect)

Eddie Bravo 20:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:04 It's like... It would be the craziest rise in the stock market you could ever see.

Eddie Bravo 20:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:08 You'd have to investigate. You'd have to be like, "What the fuck happened here?"

Eddie Bravo 20:11 Such an explosion.

Joe Rogan 20:12 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 20:12 And it was UFC 2.

Joe Rogan 20:13 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 20:13 UFC 1 no one really watched. They didn't have any B-roll. I remember seeing a preview for it and I would watch all boxing events no matter what. I was a boxing fanatic. I didn't miss any of those big fights ever. Even the small Tuesday night fights, I'd, I recorded that on my VCR. Always taped boxing events. Never missed them. But I didn't, I didn't watch that. I go, you know what I thought? It looks like it might be fake.

Joe Rogan 20:36 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 20:36 I thought it may be like a Fight Zone. Remember Fight Zone?

Joe Rogan 20:39 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 20:40 Uh, a little WWE but tried to make it look, uh, you know, more martial arts oriented. But... So I didn't watch it and then you end up, you know, you end up hearing, "Shit, that, that was real?" And I'll never forget my roommate came home from Guitar Center and he said, "Man, that UFC thing, that UFC Challenge, that shit's for real, man." I go, "Really?" And I was doing karate at the time and I go, "Was there a karate guy in there?" And he goes, "Yeah, but he got beat by some... I think he was Iranian, man."

Joe Rogan 21:11 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 21:11 "He was just choking everybody out. He would just..." I go, "He was choking everybody out? What do you mean? He would just grab their throat?" And he goes, "Dude, yeah. He would just grab their fucking throat, some Iranian guy and he would choke... He choked everybody out." That's what the guy told me at Guitar Center. I'm like, "Holy shit. Karate too?" I'm like, "Fuck, maybe I'm doing the wrong style."

Joe Rogan 21:29 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 21:29 And then the UFC, uh, UFC 2 came out and I, I remember I told my same roommate... He was staying home. It was on the weekend and I was going out, um, on the town and I remember calling him to say, "Hey dude, that UFC 2, that UFC Challenge thing is on. Tape it." Because I... he was gonna stay home with his girlfriend. He taped it. I got home, watched that motherfucker on tape. I c- I couldn't stand Royce Gracie that first, that first half of the show. Oh, I just wanted him to lose so bad. When he fought Minoki Ichihara... He was a karate guy. To me, that was my hero. I mean, I was doing karate for six months, man. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 22:04 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 22:04 I was all about karate. I didn't want Royce to beat him but then Roy... But by the time we got to the finals, I was a gigantic Royce fan.

Joe Rogan 22:11 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 22:12 I go, "You know what? I gotta learn this jujitsu." And I just quit karate and, and, um, found, uh, the Machados in the valley.

Joe Rogan 22:19 It is really crazy when you think about what would have happened if that didn't take place. Like what would have happened if Rorion never put together the, the first Ultimate Fighter, right? It was partly his idea and Art Davies.

Eddie Bravo 22:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:34 What if... What would have happened if that didn't happen? Where would martial arts be? Would it be inevitable? Would somebody figure it out? Would Japan have figured it out?

Eddie Bravo 22:42 We would have figured it out eventually because-

Joe Rogan 22:43 Maybe.

Eddie Bravo 22:44 ... uh, yeah, 'cause the j- jujitsu would have eventually grew out of Brazil.

Joe Rogan 22:47 Right.

Eddie Bravo 22:48 There's no way you could have stopped the-

Joe Rogan 22:49 But the way it grew...

Eddie Bravo 22:50 Yeah. And that was a huge explosion, but it would have got out eventually but with... Maybe, I mean, for sure not with the same impact.

Joe Rogan 22:58 Yeah, but see like forever wrestlers were like... When, when you think about MMA, right now wrestling's a giant skill, right? A Mark Coleman type wrestler, big powerful wrestler who can take you down and beat you up from the top, that's giant. That was always the case but we didn't think of that. Like when you thought of like boxing versus wrestling or karate versus wrestling, nobody thought like wrestlers have a giant advantage. Nobody thought that. You would think, "Oh, the karate guy would probably fuck him up."

Eddie Bravo 23:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:26 Probably catch him with a karate chop.

Eddie Bravo 23:27 For sure.

Joe Rogan 23:28 Knee on the way in or something like that.

Eddie Bravo 23:29 I wrestled un-... I ne- I never thought wrestling was a martial art at all.

Joe Rogan 23:32 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 23:32 To me it was one-on-one football.

Joe Rogan 23:34 Right.

Eddie Bravo 23:34 I had never looked at it but... And I would use it to cheat in fights because I'd get in a fight in high school, I would just... I would double leg them, dude, and just fucking get side... twist their side control and punch them in the stomach and-

Joe Rogan 23:45 Beat them up, hold them down.

Eddie Bravo 23:46 Yeah. So I-

Joe Rogan 23:47 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 23:47 But I... You know, I, I figured that was cheating but I didn't care.

Joe Rogan 23:49 It's... I mean, it is not a martial art in that it has finishing holds of its own because most of it is just taking people down and holding them down and getting back up and... But if you can master that, that is like one of the most important aspects of martial arts. I mean, and we never thought about it that way.

Eddie Bravo 24:07 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 24:07 It took forever. It's almost like it took the UFC to show that.

Eddie Bravo 24:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:11 It took the UFC to show that over and over again and I really worry or wonder, rather, what would have happened if the UFC in '93 had never been invented? Because if, if there was never any kind of a tournament like that that threw all these fighters together in a real organized way and you got real top level guys from each discipline eventually making their way into the UFC-What the fuck, man? Uh, martial arts would be (laughs) still back in the 1980s.

Eddie Bravo 24:35 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:36 (coughs) We'd have some idea what worked and some idea what, what, you know-

Eddie Bravo 24:40 And j-

Joe Rogan 24:40 ... "Don't, don't try this."

Eddie Bravo 24:41 Yeah. And like w- in Japan, they were doing Pancrase.

Joe Rogan 24:45 Right.

Eddie Bravo 24:45 They were doing, like, judo.

Joe Rogan 24:46 What year did they start doing Pancrase?

Eddie Bravo 24:48 I think they were doing it, uh, uh, at, you know, early '90s, and-

Joe Rogan 24:53 So the Boss Rutten, Frank Shamrock, Ken Shamrock days, Matt Hume was in it back then. What years were those?

Eddie Bravo 25:00 Yeah, that's, that's hard to ... When was Pancrase 1 first aired?

Young Jamie 25:06 It was founded in '93.

Eddie Bravo 25:07 Founded in, in what month? Does it say?

Joe Rogan 25:10 '93.

Eddie Bravo 25:11 Damn, 'cause that was the first UFC too.

Joe Rogan 25:12 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 25:12 No-November of '93 was the first UFC.

Joe Rogan 25:15 (laughs) So it all basically happened around the same time.

Eddie Bravo 25:17 So may- I mean, is it possible that in November of '93, they see the UFC and then immediately Pancrase starts, like, a few weeks later and it's still '93?

Young Jamie 25:26 It was established on May 16th, 1993. And their first event was promoted on September 21st.

Eddie Bravo 25:33 Oh. So that was before.

Joe Rogan 25:34 So it was established in May and then September. And what was the UFC in '93?

Eddie Bravo 25:38 November.

Joe Rogan 25:38 November, hmm.

Eddie Bravo 25:40 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 25:40 Interesting.

Eddie Bravo 25:41 So right before the UFC.

Joe Rogan 25:43 So neither one of them had been on air when they both started or they were both putting it together.

Eddie Bravo 25:49 It was the same time.

Joe Rogan 25:49 So maybe, like, the idea was in the air.

Eddie Bravo 25:51 Maybe it was in the air, bro.

Joe Rogan 25:53 Do you believe in that? The idea's just out there in the air?

Eddie Bravo 25:56 That is pretty crazy. But the fighters in Pancrase, they, uh, didn't have the jujitsu that the Brazilians had.

Joe Rogan 26:08 No.

Eddie Bravo 26:08 There was a big difference.

Joe Rogan 26:09 There was a lot of-

Eddie Bravo 26:09 Big, big difference.

Joe Rogan 26:09 ... leg locks going on back then, remember?

Eddie Bravo 26:11 Yeah. But it-

Joe Rogan 26:12 Is that, is that Ken Shamrock's influence or was that, uh ... There was a lot of Japan, Japan, like, catch wrestling influence, right? Like from Karl Gotch and-

Eddie Bravo 26:21 Yeah. J-Japan's always been into leg locks.

Joe Rogan 26:23 Billy Robinson.

Eddie Bravo 26:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:24 They've always been like, like the Sakuraba style. That's very catch oriented, right?

Eddie Bravo 26:28 Yes, yes, yes.

Joe Rogan 26:29 Yeah, for those who don't know what we're talking about, catch-

Eddie Bravo 26:32 But-

Joe Rogan 26:32 Catch as catch can.

Eddie Bravo 26:33 But make no mistake about it, the, the ground fighting was just on another level. You could say whatever the hell you want.

Joe Rogan 26:40 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 26:40 But when you watch, uh, Alan Goze fighting Pancrase against Frank Shamrock, man, you see the difference in jujitsu back then. That was a big, big difference.

Joe Rogan 26:49 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 26:49 Alan Goze was all over Frank Shamrock. Um, Frank Shamrock was a bad motherfucker, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 26:54 Yeah, he had only b- ... You know, he had only been training for a couple of years.

Eddie Bravo 26:57 Yeah, yeah. He-

Joe Rogan 26:57 Which is crazy.

Eddie Bravo 26:58 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:58 He was fighting against guys like Boss Rutten when he had been training for, like, a couple years.

Eddie Bravo 27:03 Yeah, yeah. Uh-

Joe Rogan 27:05 D- do you remember how jacked they were? Like, Jesus.

Eddie Bravo 27:07 Yeah. Any time a Brazilian-

Joe Rogan 27:08 They would wear Speedos.

Eddie Bravo 27:09 Yeah. Any time a Brazilian would, uh, would go against a, your, your average Pancrase guy-

Joe Rogan 27:14 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 27:15 ... there's a clear difference in the ground fighting.

Joe Rogan 27:17 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 27:17 Clear difference. And, uh-

Young Jamie 27:19 Well, they had three Pancrase events before that first UFC.

Eddie Bravo 27:22 Really?

Joe Rogan 27:22 Whoa.

Eddie Bravo 27:23 Wow.

Young Jamie 27:24 Ken Shamrock was in all four events.

Joe Rogan 27:25 Whoa.

Eddie Bravo 27:26 What was that?

Young Jamie 27:27 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 27:27 And what, what'd you say in all? What was the-

Young Jamie 27:28 Ken Shamrock was in all of them.

Eddie Bravo 27:30 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 27:31 (coughs) Yeah, so look at that. Bam.

Young Jamie 27:36 Yeah, it says that, that the Pancrase thing came out of a wrestling organization in Japan, where they had, like, they were having problems with predetermined outcomes.

Eddie Bravo 27:44 Mm.

Young Jamie 27:44 So they started this. They wanted-

Joe Rogan 27:45 Oh, so they decided to have actual fights.

Young Jamie 27:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:48 Funaki.

Eddie Bravo 27:49 Interesting. Yeah, and then you look at Rickson versus Funaki.

Joe Rogan 27:51 Ooh, coliseum.

Eddie Bravo 27:53 Big, big fucking difference in grappling.

Joe Rogan 27:54 Oh, yeah.

Eddie Bravo 27:55 You know what I mean? Big difference.

Joe Rogan 27:56 That's, that's as big as it gets.

Eddie Bravo 27:57 Yeah. So you, you could see that. So what the UFC did that Pancrase didn't do, uh, and mainly because nobody i- in the Western Hemisphere even knew what the fuck it was. It was a, a Japanese thing, so it's gonna be hard to change the world when you're, you know, only televised in Japan. And back then, you know, you had to get, like, someone, someone had to mail you a VHS tape. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 28:24 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 28:24 You had to go to weird Japanese stores and, and, and g- see that. So, but the UFC made it clear that the Brazilians were doing a form of ground fighting that was, uh, beyond and more sophisticated than what, what we were seeing in Japan or anywhere else in the world.

Joe Rogan 28:44 Yeah, nobody, nobody knew-

Eddie Bravo 28:46 You know, nobody knows-

Joe Rogan 28:46 ... half the shit they were doing.

Eddie Bravo 28:47 No, Sambo had it down. Sambo had some good shit.

Joe Rogan 28:50 That was some great shit.

Eddie Bravo 28:50 And judo, yes, judo, um ... Most, if not all Brazilian jujitsu moves, I mean, have been done in judo, and they're, actually, they came from judo. We, we know that. The Japanese know that. Uh, but a, a lot of American judo guys don't ... They can't, they can't seem to grasp that, 'cause they're like, you know, "The Gracie's ripped off Newaza. It's all about Newaza." We used to ... You know, there was a, you know, a sect of judo where they did focus on the ground. But, and that's all true, but the major difference is the Brazilians, they wanted to do a style where there wasn't a time limit on the ground. In judo, you could only fight on the ground for, I don't know, 30 seconds. It's l- it's limited. It's not that much time. So when you don't have that much time, there's a lot of shit you don't need to waste your time drilling, because you're only gonna be down there for 30 seconds. You need to focus on the moves that work in 30 seconds, and that's it. You don't have time to set shit up and be patient and relax. You can't clinch and catch your breath. You gotta, it's gotta, you gotta go into it. So what the Brazilians did is, uh, just allowed the fight to unfold on the ground and, and not have any stand-ups and just let them fight on the ground. And when that happens, uh, there's a lot, uh ... There's so much more you can do when there's no time limit on the ground. Not like no time li- I mean, you know, they're not gonna sp- without stand-ups, where you could just, most of the match is take, is- takes place on the ground. S- the game just evolves so quickly and so rapidly and, and, uh, that you can't compare ... Like, e- Japanese guys come down to Brazil and they d- been doing judo their whole life, and they get smoked by Brazilians. That always happens in the World Championships. The Brazilians are just on the ground all day, you know? And the guys that do judo, they're on the ground a little bit. They're never gonna be able to compete in a sport where there's no stand-ups.You know, so to say that, uh, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is just Judo, it's, that's, um, you gotta think about it. You gotta really break it down-

Joe Rogan 31:00 It's silly.

Eddie Bravo 31:00 ... because it's, yeah, it's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 31:02 It's silly. It's silly. There's so many silly connections that people have to arts, you know? I mean, there's, there's people that legitimately think that white people shouldn't be able to teach karate because it's cultural appropriation because it's a Japanese art. There's people that think that's stupid, you know? There's, I think all of it's martial arts now. I mean, I think the roots and the bases are very important to recognize that, you know, hey, you know, Brazil did do a crazy thing with Jiu-Jitsu. Hey, uh, the Thais did do a crazy thing with leg kicks and elbows and knees. There's really some, some people that have contributed to martial arts in this really insane way. And the people that highlight those disciplines, like the elite of the elites, like the Bucaus and the Sanchize and the Marcelo Garcias and the Jacares, like all these people that highlight it on, in each art, they're all, like, super, super important. But overall, it all comes into one thing and that's, that's martial arts. I think martial arts, it's really, um, at this point, it's really, I mean, ultimately it's, it's one thing now. Ultimately, ulti- ultimately, like, when you, when you think about UFC, when you think about just Bruce Lee movies, what is it? Like, fight, how, what's the best way to fight? It's all together now. It's all combined because the best way is not just wrestling. It's wrestling with ferocious striking. It's wrestling with leg kick defense. It's wrestling with submission holds. It's all these different things. You have to have all these things. You can't just be one thing anymore. It's interesting to be from one discipline, but it's, like, what, if your kid is coming up right now and he's, like, your son's age and he starts to learn martial arts techniques, I think by the time he gets to be our age, it's just gonna be martial arts. People are just gonna be taking martial arts. I don't think there's gonna be as, as many specialists in the future, and I think that's probably a shame. Like, but, no, who's gonna want, uh, from a guy who did Tae Kwon Do his whole life, who's gonna wanna do that now?

Eddie Bravo 32:59 Yeah, but when you're talking about Jiu-Jitsu, um, most people that do Jiu-Jitsu, um, are not doing it, uh, or they don't stay in it for the long haul and make it a lifestyle for the self-defense aspects.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Right.

Eddie Bravo 33:15 They don't.

Joe Rogan 33:16 No.

Eddie Bravo 33:16 They go in there 'cause they're playing a video game and they're staying in shape.

Joe Rogan 33:19 Right.

Eddie Bravo 33:19 They're playing a, a game of death virtual reality video game trying to get taps, trying not to get, uh, tapped that much. You know? So, dude, mo- most of the guys in, in, you know, the, most of my students, they're just, like, you know, super nice sweetheart, uh, computer geeks. Just, just the nicest guys. They're, they're not in there ... They're in there-

Joe Rogan 33:40 Right.

Eddie Bravo 33:41 ... just to play.

Joe Rogan 33:42 Yeah. Well, it's a, there's a big difference between, um, we've talked about this before, but the big difference between guys who train together with Jiu-Jitsu and versus guys who train together with, like, kickboxing is the kickboxing people, they fucking hurt each other all the time.

Eddie Bravo 33:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:54 Like bad.

Eddie Bravo 33:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:55 Like they're beating each other up. They're kicking each other and punching each other and shit. Jiu-Jitsu guys tap each other out and then they're like, "Oh, I'm gonna get you back, bitch."

Eddie Bravo 34:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:02 And it's, but it's okay. Everybody's okay.

Eddie Bravo 34:04 Yeah. And you've gone 100%.

Joe Rogan 34:04 Like, "Oh, you got me. You got me."

Eddie Bravo 34:05 That's the beauty of it.

Joe Rogan 34:06 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 34:06 You, you, we get to s- the, the, the reason why Jiu-Jitsu is, uh, it's, I mean, opening up a Jiu-Jitsu school, like, in, in, in society today is, like, one of the safest bets out there ever.

Joe Rogan 34:19 Right.

Eddie Bravo 34:20 It gets so addicting. You can't download Jiu-Jitsu. You can't pirate Jiu-Jitsu, you know? You c- or sparring rather.

Joe Rogan 34:26 Right.

Eddie Bravo 34:26 You know, you, you, you can't. You have to go to a place and you have to go to a place where there's a bunch of different ... And the more people there are, the better, the more variety of rolls you can get. 'Cause you don't wanna just roll with the same guy all the time.

Joe Rogan 34:37 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 34:37 You wanna mix it up.

Joe Rogan 34:38 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 34:38 Mix your style with that guy's style. Go with the new guy who doesn't know your secret moves and you go, you like going with new dudes-

Joe Rogan 34:44 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 34:45 ... where your, your setups work because the guys that you've been rolling with for a while, they smell out all your setups and now you gotta come up with new setups and then you gotta figure out a different way around this problem. It's just, um, it's just too much fun, man. It's, it's so addicting and it has nothing to do with ... Not, I wouldn't say nothing, but, uh, you know, you do enjoy, um, the, um, the self-defense aspects. Like if anything went down, it, you, it makes you feel better in certain situations. Like you're not, uh, as worried about, uh, things as you might be.

Joe Rogan 35:19 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 35:19 If you didn't know, if you didn't know martial arts... You know, the one thing that, uh, I'm gonna start doing once I'm totally healed again is I'm gonna start kickboxing.

Joe Rogan 35:27 Yeah?

Eddie Bravo 35:28 Yeah. 'Cause I just see too many Instagram videos-

Joe Rogan 35:30 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 35:31 ... of dudes getting fucking lit up. I'm like, "You know what? It's a good idea once a week, you know?" And I'm not gonna make a big deal out of it. Maybe once a week, uh, tops. Once a week.

Joe Rogan 35:42 Did you see that video-

Eddie Bravo 35:42 Just to go in there and just, y-

Joe Rogan 35:44 But did you see that video he put up on Instagram today?

Eddie Bravo 35:46 No.

Joe Rogan 35:46 From Draka? It's like a, I think it's Draka_Jr is the, the Instagram account. It's a crazy Russian account and it's, uh, two on one Russian fighting, a giant dude and two, like, normal sized guys.

Eddie Bravo 35:59 What?

Joe Rogan 35:59 Yeah, look at this. (laughs) Give me some volume, Jamie.

Narrator 36:05 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 36:06 This is crazy. Both these guys weigh about 160 and the other guy looks like he's about 300 fucking pounds. Look at this.

Narrator 36:13 (russian)

Joe Rogan 36:15 Look how he's ragdolling these dudes. Fucking them up.

Eddie Bravo 36:17 Oh, shit. Those knees.

Joe Rogan 36:18 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 36:19 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 36:19 This guy's giant, man. He's so much bigger than these two dudes. Oh, look at this.

Narrator 36:24 Oh.

Eddie Bravo 36:24 He's a beast. Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 36:26 He's got good cardio too for a giant fucking dude, man.

Eddie Bravo 36:28 This is the white Kimbo.

Joe Rogan 36:30 Yeah. Look, he's got good leg kick checking. He's got technique. He's not just a giant dude.

Narrator 36:38 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 36:39 They're not faking it, right?

Joe Rogan 36:40 No, man. They're beating the fuck out of each other.

Eddie Bravo 36:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:44 Look, he's k- he's hitting this fucking guy hard.

Eddie Bravo 36:46 Oh. (laughs) That wheel kick.

Joe Rogan 36:52 This is crazy. I mean, this is not a smart thing for the little dudes, 'cause the problem is they don't have the horsepower.

Eddie Bravo 36:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:59 They're not gonna be able to take them out.

Eddie Bravo 37:00 Too many videos on Instagram where dudes are getting lit up. Um, you got to have-

Joe Rogan 37:04 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 37:04 ... it's, you gotta have the ability to knock somebody out if you had to and not do jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 37:09 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 37:09 There's many situations where, in a real, uh, life altercation, getting on the ground is not the best idea. And, uh, being able to light someone up or, like, three dudes, no way you're gonna beat three dudes with jujitsu. You know, and it happens. You see it on videos. It's like a myth. It's like a mythical thing. You can't beat multiple attackers. Yes, you fucking can. Like, you could with your striking. If there was three dudes, and they were starting shit, you're like, "Okay, I'm gonna knock this motherfucker out first. And then hopefully one dude will start running, and then I'll fucking clean up the second guy." You know, or whatever. But to have your level of striking is important. It's important-

Joe Rogan 37:44 It's, you know what's important? It's important if you think that someone might be hitting you, like if you think someone ... "This motherfucker looks like he's gonna swing on me. Like, I got a feeling like he's gonna swing on me."

Eddie Bravo 37:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:54 And you, there's, there's that, that, that moment when you're in a heightened sense of danger, if you don't understand space, like, that's a real big thing. One of the things about sparring that's really important is that you, you know when you're safe and when you're not safe.

Eddie Bravo 38:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:08 And y- y- ... Like, a lot of people don't know. They don't know when they can hit someone, when someone can hit them.

Eddie Bravo 38:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:13 And if, if someone thinks ... If you think someone's gonna hit you and you can't get some space between them, you, you have to be ready. And you have to under- ... Like, you have to have someone have swung on you before. So as you're seeing shit coming, you gotta be able to ... "Oh, his back leg's going. Okay. His- I see his weight dipping. Oh, the right hand's coming." You know, like, there's a, there's a ... You have to know certain patterns. Otherwise, you lock up. That's the scariest thing you ever see in a fight is dudes, like ... Things start swinging, and they just lock up 'cause they don't what ... They don't know where it's coming from. They don't know what's happening. That's the most dangerous. It's almost more important for defense than it is for anything, 'cause half the time if you were ever in a fight with someone and they start just swinging at you, if you have good defense, you just ... You stand there with your hands up, and you wait. You just wait. Let them swing. Let them swing. Keep moving. You wait. You wait. How long are you gonna be able to do this? What do you got, 30 seconds in you?

Eddie Bravo 39:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:05 How long you got? You just wait. You just wait. And then all of a sudden you see a little of this, and you're like, "Oh. Oh."

Eddie Bravo 39:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:13 Oh, now you're tired.

Eddie Bravo 39:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:15 You don't really know how to fight. You just wanted to hit me.

Eddie Bravo 39:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:18 Well, now we're gonna fight.

Eddie Bravo 39:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:19 And now you're tired.

Eddie Bravo 39:20 Someone didn't do his sprints.

Joe Rogan 39:21 Yeah, well, not just that. You don't know what to do. You f- you lock up, and you're like, "Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!" People think that they can do that to people, people that don't know how to fight below their load.

Eddie Bravo 39:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:31 They just below their wad. If you, you ever ... (laughs) Like, if a guy like Joe Schilling is in a street fight, that would be, like, the most terrifying thing in the world. Like, y- y- ... Like, if you don't know and you fuck up ... He got into some crazy street fight after one of his kickboxing fights recently.

Eddie Bravo 39:43 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 39:44 In some other country. But a guy like that, first of all, he could fuck you up before you can fuck him up. But second of all, if he decides to just take his time with you-

Eddie Bravo 39:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:56 ... well, you're gonna get into this place of doom, this place of doom where you're exhausted. And you've been trying to hurt him, so he has all, everything within his right to crush you. And you know that, and now you're tired.

Eddie Bravo 40:06 Yeah. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 40:08 Ooh. (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 40:10 ... um-

Joe Rogan 40:10 Ooh. Ooh.

Eddie Bravo 40:10 ... the one thing that you notice in, uh, all these fight videos and, and scuffles on Instagram is that, uh, a lot of times e- ... It just seems like you got, you got time to, to throw a couple punches, and then you gotta get the fuck out, especially-

Joe Rogan 40:26 Gotta get out.

Eddie Bravo 40:26 Yeah, when it's multiple attackers-

Joe Rogan 40:28 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 40:28 ... you gotta figure out which dude you're gonna hit first. There's gonna be another one, and usually that third guy runs, it looks like. He's like, "Oh, shit," he's out. But if he stays, damn, it's one on one now. You just knocked two dudes out. Now it's one on one. And if you got Joe Schilling-type skills, boom. That's where it all comes in right there.

Joe Rogan 40:45 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 40:46 But the-

Joe Rogan 40:46 It's almost better to just have wrestling and boxing in a street fight. You don't really wanna catch somebody.

Eddie Bravo 40:51 That's what Bruce Lee was preaching.

Joe Rogan 40:54 Yeah. Makes sense.

Eddie Bravo 40:54 After all the shit, after everything he ... All the Kung Fu he grew up with, he got to the States, and he realized, "Holy shit, this Wing Chun isn't working on these tall white boys."

Joe Rogan 41:04 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 41:05 So he learned really quick-

Joe Rogan 41:06 But if you think about, like, a fight in the street, close quarters, I mean, maybe you'd be able to throw a kick, maybe you could throw a knee.

Eddie Bravo 41:12 He said, he said ... In 1959 he said, "A dude who's been wrestling and boxing for one year can beat a lifelong martial artist."

Joe Rogan 41:21 It's true.

Eddie Bravo 41:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:23 It's true in a lot of ways, if the guy doesn't know take-down defense and the guy doesn't know how to actually box. Dude, I remember when I first started doing ... First started learning boxing and kickboxing from all my years of doing TaeKwonDo. And I threw punches in TaeKwonDo, but I had a crazy distorted perception of my ability with my hands. Like, I thought I'd be able ... I was like, "I know how to strike."

Eddie Bravo 41:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:45 But I didn't know how to str- ... I just knew how to do TaeKwonDo. I was good at that. And when I started kickboxing, dude, I was getting lit up, especially when you're in a ring, can't go anywhere.

Eddie Bravo 41:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:54 You're trapped in this ring.

Eddie Bravo 41:55 Does TaeKwonDo have a reverse punch?

Joe Rogan 41:57 Yeah, it's got a reverse punch. It's got, you know ... It's got all these ... It's got hand techniques, but when you fight in tournaments, everything is, uh, below the neck for punches. So everything is below here. It's th-

Eddie Bravo 42:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:10 It's just the body for punches. And you can kick to the head, and you can kick to the body. You can't kick to the legs. So all it does is make you really good at kicking.

Eddie Bravo 42:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:17 That's what it really does. But the f- ... The, the distance is all fucked up. And then I realized that, like, once I started doing kickboxing. I went, "Oh, my distance is so fucked up," because when I think I'm safe, I'll g- still get punched in the face. And if they crowd me, they get punched in the face and I can't kick them. Like, my distance is all messed up. And then it's also way easier to punch me than I thought it was.

Eddie Bravo 42:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:38 So I had to learn, and, and, and in learning, it was fucking super humbling, man, super humbling, 'cause I went from being someone who ... I, I considered myself, like, an elite striker. Like, I was on a national level for TaeKwonDo. I, I fought in a lot of national tournaments. I could ... I, I fought, like ... A bunch of guys who were really good, and I hung in there with them. I thought I was really good.... just regular kickboxers were beating the fuck out of me. Just beating my ass, dude. (laughs) Just getting me in the corner, jabbing me-

Eddie Bravo 43:04 You'd think-

Joe Rogan 43:04 ... hooking off the jab, right hand, I'm like going, "Oh, no, this is terrible." (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 43:08 Isn't it, isn't it weird? For sure, Taekwondo's got the, the best, uh, spinning kicks and all that shit, right?

Joe Rogan 43:14 Yeah, it's got some really good kicks.

Eddie Bravo 43:16 Yeah. Uh-

Joe Rogan 43:16 The side kick is the best kick.

Eddie Bravo 43:18 For sure.

Joe Rogan 43:18 The best, uh, you know, the best, uh, version of the side kick's the Taekwondo side kick.

Eddie Bravo 43:21 Is, isn't it weird that the heads of the Taekwondo association, whatever the, whatever it's called, they, they can't ad- they can't admit that their hands suck, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 43:33 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 43:34 They can't admit it. You would think that the heads would say, "You know what? Shit, maybe we should do... Maybe we should add Western boxing to this shit." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 43:42 Some of them do, I'm sure. Some of them do. Some schools are independent-

Eddie Bravo 43:44 But the heads don't. Like, you would think- it's so traditional.

Joe Rogan 43:47 Right.

Eddie Bravo 43:47 Like, they won't change it.

Joe Rogan 43:48 Yeah, no.

Eddie Bravo 43:48 It's crystal clear.

Joe Rogan 43:50 (laughs) .

Eddie Bravo 43:50 It's crystal clear-

Joe Rogan 43:51 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 43:52 ... that the best hands are Western boxing hands. It's crystal clear.

Joe Rogan 43:56 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 43:56 The world knows this. But at the top, like, you don't... Like, even in the, the karate associations or kung fu associations, they, they won't alter the style, right?

Joe Rogan 44:07 Right. Well, you know, one thing that is interesting is karate at least emphasizes the idea of punching things without gloves on, 'cause there is a difference. There's a pretty big difference between punching things with gloves on and without gloves on. And one of the things that karate figured out a long time ago is you gotta condition your knuckles, condition your hands-

Eddie Bravo 44:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:24 ... and condition your knuckles.

Eddie Bravo 44:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:25 They never had that even... I mean, I guess, maybe some people had it in TaeKwonDo, but it was never anything in my organization, where they had like a makiwara, which is like a b- if you don't know what I'm, we're talking about, there's a board with rope wrapped around it, just hard rope, and they just fucking smack, just punch that rope until their knuckles became like calloused.

Eddie Bravo 44:43 Calloused?

Joe Rogan 44:43 My friend John Lee, who I told you about, he was the guy that I, I saw kick the bag for the first time and bend it in half-

Eddie Bravo 44:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:49 ... national TaeKwonDo champion, who's a monster.

Eddie Bravo 44:52 Vroom, vroom.

Joe Rogan 44:52 He had one hand where he only had one knuckle. His, his first two knuckles were just one. It was one giant knot. It wasn't-

Eddie Bravo 45:00 (gasps)

Joe Rogan 45:00 It wasn't like my hand looks like with two distinct knuckles. It was just a, a boulder over there-

Eddie Bravo 45:06 And what did he do?

Joe Rogan 45:06 ... all from punching bricks.

Eddie Bravo 45:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:08 He would just break bricks with his knuckles, and he would crack-

Eddie Bravo 45:10 And it works, so that shit works?

Joe Rogan 45:11 Oh, yeah.

Eddie Bravo 45:12 Oh.

Joe Rogan 45:12 You get mad, mad arthritis when you get old-

Eddie Bravo 45:15 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 45:16 It's like (groans) .

Eddie Bravo 45:16 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 45:17 It is so not good to just beat on a joint until it callouses up like that.

Eddie Bravo 45:22 Yeah. Okay, forget that. Forget that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:23 Yeah. I mean, that's what I heard. Maybe that's a, maybe that's a fake rumor too, but a lot of those guys that, uh, that did that, they would practice on makiwaras and on bricks and just constantly be punching bricks.

Eddie Bravo 45:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:35 And so John had hands where he could, like, legitimately punch someone very hard and not worry about it with a bare knuckle. Whereas, a lot of people, man, your hand, your hand is way weak. Just think about what your hand is. Like, move your hand around like this. Think about all these little parts.

Eddie Bravo 45:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:50 This is the worst thing you wanna hit somebody with.

Eddie Bravo 45:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:52 That's why this elbows are so much better.

Eddie Bravo 45:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:55 Elbows are so much better. Your palm's even better.

Eddie Bravo 45:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:58 This is crazy. This thing articulates, and it move... This is for piano. It's not for Hulk smash.

Eddie Bravo 46:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:05 You know, look at this.

Eddie Bravo 46:06 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 46:08 Thoughts to makiwara? Is that a guy's arthritis from using the makiwara?

Eddie Bravo 46:12 There was a style-

Joe Rogan 46:13 Look at those knuckles. Jesus Christ.

Eddie Bravo 46:14 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 46:15 Oh, my God.

Eddie Bravo 46:16 Nice. There was a style that did, uh, address weaknesses in a bunch of styles and just... Do you remember, um... And then I forget who formed it, but he formed a style that had the best of what he thought of, like, five systems, Kajukenbo, remember that?

Joe Rogan 46:34 Hmm.

Eddie Bravo 46:34 Kajukenbo.

Joe Rogan 46:35 Who, who put that together?

Eddie Bravo 46:36 Ka is karate. Uh, ju maybe jujitsu or judo. Kajuken- uh, then kenpo karate and bo-

Joe Rogan 46:44 Is that Bart Vale?

Eddie Bravo 46:45 And bo... No. And, uh, bo for boxing. So it was boxing, karate, judo, and kenpo karate.

Joe Rogan 46:53 Do you remember Bart Vale?

Eddie Bravo 46:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:55 Dude, Bart Vale-

Eddie Bravo 46:56 He made... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:56 ... was another guy-

Eddie Bravo 46:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:57 ... who was, like, a pioneer of MMA that people seem to have forgot about.

Eddie Bravo 47:00 Kajukenbo.

Joe Rogan 47:01 I can't believe I just remembered him. Oh, look at that.

Eddie Bravo 47:02 Oh, you know what? I'm going-

Joe Rogan 47:03 He's doing, like, a little bit of Wing Chun, a little bit of side kicking.

Eddie Bravo 47:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:08 But, but Google Bart Vale. He was one of the early guys, man. I fucking completely forgot about him. He was a big giant dude too.

Eddie Bravo 47:20 He was a shoot fighter.

Joe Rogan 47:22 Yeah, he fought... That's right. He fought fucking Ken Shamrock and Pancrase. Look at this.

Eddie Bravo 47:27 Yeah. And this was before the UFC too.

Joe Rogan 47:29 Yeah. These guys used to... They, they had... The open slap was interesting too, right? They, they weren't allowed to punch each other. They... But they were allowed to open slap. Like, how weird is that? It's so strange watching these old, old fights. Look how big fucking Bart Vale is compared to Ken Shamrock. He was a big fucking dude, man. He always had American flag shorts on, right?

Eddie Bravo 47:56 Yeah. The one thing we failed to mention that, that we, we should bring up is, um, whether or not Rorion Gracie or Art Davie were influenced by Pancrase or not, like what came out first, a few months later, w- in Brazil, they were doing that shit since like the 20s and 30s and 40s.

Joe Rogan 48:16 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 48:17 Right? So really, it probably all started in Brazil if you break it down like that.

Joe Rogan 48:22 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 48:22 I mean, uh, Helio Gracie was fighting what? In the 40s or the 50s or something?

Joe Rogan 48:26 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 48:26 And then Carlson Gracie took over, like, in the 60s. It was huge in Brazil.

Joe Rogan 48:31 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 48:31 So not only did Brazil... Not only is Brazil responsible for the level of grappling in the world today, it's, it's... For sure the Brazilians gotta have all the credit for that, for sure. Come on, man.

Joe Rogan 48:46 Yeah. I mean, when, what year was the-

Eddie Bravo 48:47 But also, also MMA. They were doing Vale Tudo.

Joe Rogan 48:50 Right.

Eddie Bravo 48:50 Vale Tudo is old school. There were... The Brazilians, for some reason, I don't know what it, what it was, uh, but they figured out a lot of good shit.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Right, that Rickson Gracie match when he was 18 against Zulu.

Eddie Bravo 49:02 They figured out acai, are you kidding me?

Joe Rogan 49:04 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 49:04 You go to Ubatuba right there on Ventura. You ever go there?

Joe Rogan 49:07 No.

Eddie Bravo 49:08 ... that's the kinda... 'cause all these little, uh, pussy-ass little, uh, juice shops trying to have açaí, they don't do it right. The, the way Ubatuba does it is exactly the way you get it in Brazil. It's so goddamn good.

Joe Rogan 49:21 What is this? 1920s? Fighting sideshows called vale-tudo began popular in Brazilian circuses during the 1920s. Jesus Christ. So they were doing this before they found jujitsu, and jujitsu, they're just figured it, like the... Made them see the, the last piece of the puzzle. They were already doing it before 1920? It says, it says-

Eddie Bravo 49:42 No, I think Helio started it ear- I think Helio was doing jujitsu-

Joe Rogan 49:45 In the '20s?

Eddie Bravo 49:46 ... in 1914 or something.

Joe Rogan 49:47 When did Maeda come to Brazil?

Eddie Bravo 49:49 That's a good question. When did-

Joe Rogan 49:51 I thought that was in the thir-

Eddie Bravo 49:52 What year did-

Joe Rogan 49:53 ... the '30s or '40s.

Eddie Bravo 49:53 ... Helio Gracie... 'Cause Carlos Gracie learned first. What year did Carlos Gracie first learn jujitsu?

Joe Rogan 49:59 Well, Count Maeda, right? It was Count Maeda. When did he first meet Carlos Gracie?

Eddie Bravo 50:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:04 It's amazing, man.

Eddie Bravo 50:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:05 Again, think about the billions of people on the planet. If these two people don't meet, if one guy doesn't teach another guy judo, the whole world is different.

Eddie Bravo 50:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:13 Fucking crazy.

Eddie Bravo 50:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:14 Fucking crazy.

Eddie Bravo 50:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:15 Really crazy. And then what country did he go to? You know, did he go to Norway or did he go to Germany? Did he go... No, no, he went to this cr- place where they're already doing this. He comes there and then teaches them judo at a place where they're already getting wild.

Eddie Bravo 50:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:29 They're, they're already having these wild-ass fights and he figures out how to get it to the craziest family-

Eddie Bravo 50:37 Or-

Joe Rogan 50:37 ... in the best way possible.

Eddie Bravo 50:38 Or maybe-

Joe Rogan 50:39 Using the word craziest.

Eddie Bravo 50:39 I mean-

Young Jamie 50:39 So he's about 15, so it would've been 1917.

Eddie Bravo 50:42 19- Yes.

Young Jamie 50:43 1917.

Joe Rogan 50:43 Wow.

Eddie Bravo 50:43 So maybe they learned jujitsu and, and maybe-

Joe Rogan 50:46 They immediately started having fights.

Eddie Bravo 50:46 Exactly. Maybe vale-tudo...

Joe Rogan 50:49 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 50:49 Who invented vale-tudo?

Joe Rogan 50:51 How crazy-

Eddie Bravo 50:51 Was it the Gracies?

Joe Rogan 50:52 Dude, how crazy is that?

Eddie Bravo 50:54 Who first started doing vale-tudo in Brazil? That's what, that's what I wanna know.

Joe Rogan 50:57 Well, it had to have been influenced by the initial learning of Brazilian jujitsu from three years ago.

Eddie Bravo 51:03 Or maybe it was a bunch of-

Joe Rogan 51:04 So it's really like-

Eddie Bravo 51:04 Or maybe it was just a bunch of dudes who, uh, were terrible at jujitsu, just like in Japan.

Joe Rogan 51:10 Well, when I came into the UFC, it was '97, so it's basically the same amount of time afterwards, right? So think about if, like, jujitsu's introduced to Brazil three years before they start doing these vale-tudo things. When I first got into, uh, the UFC, it was '97. And you and I went to one in '97, remember?

Eddie Bravo 51:27 Yep.

Joe Rogan 51:27 And those days, it was... Everything was like... It was like the m-... It had to be probably how, like, how they were on a larger scale, 'cause it was on cable, but how they were looking at it. Like, "Oh, here's this new thing. Everybody has figured out this new thing. This is the new thing. Okay, we'll try this new thing. We're gonna have these fights. We're gonna put these fights together." Real similar timeline. But the Brazilians were how many years earlier?

Eddie Bravo 51:51 1920.

Joe Rogan 51:51 '70?

Eddie Bravo 51:52 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:53 70 years earlier?

Eddie Bravo 51:54 Was anybody doing that before the 1920s? Who-

Joe Rogan 51:57 That... Dude, that is fucking crazy.

Eddie Bravo 51:59 Who really... Who really invented vale-tudo? Or maybe it was, like, uh... Maybe... You know what? Maybe, uh, them catch wrestling, um, uh, no holds barred fights that they would do in, in circuses.

Joe Rogan 52:10 There was a little something with that. Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 52:11 Maybe there was... Yeah, maybe that... I think that was in the 1800s.

Joe Rogan 52:14 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 52:14 So-

Young Jamie 52:14 This says that, uh... In, uh, Maeda's Wikipedia that in nine- 1879, Ulysses S. Grant, former president at the time, visited Japan, and while in Tokyo, attended a jujitsu presentation.

Joe Rogan 52:25 Whoa. Interesting.

Eddie Bravo 52:28 1879?

Joe Rogan 52:29 1879.

Eddie Bravo 52:30 But Japanese jujitsu-

Joe Rogan 52:31 But didn't do anything with it.

Eddie Bravo 52:32 Yeah, Japanese jujitsu is different than Brazilian jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 52:34 Well, didn't, uh... Was it Teddy Roosevelt? One of them, what-

Eddie Bravo 52:37 Way different.

Joe Rogan 52:38 ... studied judo. Some- one of the, one of the former presidents studied judo. Who the fuck was that?

Young Jamie 52:43 I recently read too that Abraham Lincoln, before he was president, used to travel around and res-

Eddie Bravo 52:46 Yeah, he was a wrestler.

Young Jamie 52:48 ... challenge people to wrestler, like-

Joe Rogan 52:48 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 52:48 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:49 Yeah, he was a big, old, tall dude. See, I, I think there's a lot of those guys that, uh, would do that just for money. They would travel around. And then there was people that would take on all comers in, you know, local towns. It was a way to make money.

Eddie Bravo 53:01 Yeah. But the rules, uh, matter.

Joe Rogan 53:03 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 53:04 Like if you're doing challenge matches, uh... 'Cause, uh, in catch wrestling, in the sport, you're not allowed to put someone in full guard, I don't think. I, I don't think-

Joe Rogan 53:13 I don't know about that.

Eddie Bravo 53:13 ... the guard is... Like, in wrestling-

Joe Rogan 53:14 I don't know the rules.

Eddie Bravo 53:14 Like, in w- in wrestling-

Joe Rogan 53:15 In catch wrestling, though?

Eddie Bravo 53:16 In just regular wrestling, you can't put anybody in your guard-

Joe Rogan 53:18 Right.

Eddie Bravo 53:18 ... and work your guard. So-

Joe Rogan 53:19 In catch wrestling-

Eddie Bravo 53:20 ... in catch wrestling, it's similar. You can-

Joe Rogan 53:22 Catch wrestling, you can win by pin too, right?

Eddie Bravo 53:24 I-

Joe Rogan 53:24 Is that true?

Eddie Bravo 53:25 I think so. It's, it's, um-

Joe Rogan 53:27 That's, like, what?

Eddie Bravo 53:28 It's, it's a wrestling-based art, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:31 But you could also get a guy in a kimura.

Eddie Bravo 53:33 Yes.

Joe Rogan 53:34 Or an Americana.

Eddie Bravo 53:34 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:35 You could choke him.

Eddie Bravo 53:35 It, it truly is-

Joe Rogan 53:37 You can choke him?

Eddie Bravo 53:37 It truly is. I think so. Uh, submission wrestling.

Joe Rogan 53:39 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 53:39 But the problem and the big problem with catch wrestling, it has a lot of wonderful things, for sure. Um, a lot like, you know, the kimura. There's a lot of great shit in catch wrestling, but the fact that, uh, you can't put... You can't work from your full guard, uh, means that not only, uh, does the system have no guard work, really, or, or super limited guard work. Like someone's gonna send me a picture, "Look, a picture of some old catch wrestler in their guard," or something.

Joe Rogan 54:08 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 54:09 Yes, yes. Oo- yes. I, I get it. It existed. But I'm talking about, um, a sport where you're allowed to work from the guard with- without being stood up or without being penalized. You know what I mean? Y'alls didn't have that. So what that mean- what that means is the guard passing was nonexistent as well. If you don't, if you're not allowed to play guard, why would you bother learning and drilling all these different pass combos?

Joe Rogan 54:34 Mm.

Eddie Bravo 54:34 It's a lot of time.

Joe Rogan 54:35 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 54:35 So that's, that's what the ca- catch wrestling was missing, was the guard and the guard passing. But they had all the submissions, and it's a beautiful thing. But it, it was like that in Japan in a lot of ways too, that when you watch old pankress, no one's working from the guard. There's no tech- there's no technical half guard stuff. There's... It's just wide open basic movements, um, f- off your back.

Joe Rogan 54:57 Mm.

Eddie Bravo 54:57 And that's one of the... That's the biggest thing that the Brazilians brought to the game, is, uh, guard passing, um, which means, on the flip side, you gotta have-... you know, a super hard guard to pass, you know, and that changes everything. That changed everything in, in, uh, in trying to figure out a way to, to do real fights. You know, that's why they had to fake a lot of fights, because there was so much missing that fights would ... You know, when you put two white belts together on the ground, there's not going to be a submission going on. It's gonna be, uh, it's not gonna be entertaining to watch two people on the ground in a position like the guard or whatever, where you just don't spend a lot of time and it gets really boring. So, that's why you'd have to fake it. You're like, "You know what? If we're gonna allow-"

Joe Rogan 55:40 What do you mean by fake it?

Eddie Bravo 55:41 Like, uh, pro wrestling.

Joe Rogan 55:42 Oh.

Eddie Bravo 55:42 Like, pro wrestling, the origins of pro wrestling. I mean, if you look, think about pro wrestling, pro wrestling is just a fake UFC, 'cause they're on the ground, they do, uh, uh, um, they, you know, they do leg locks and shit, and they do, they'll do gogoplata now, the, uh, grave digger-

Joe Rogan 55:56 Now they do it.

Eddie Bravo 55:56 ... whatever the fuck it ... The undertaker.

Joe Rogan 55:58 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 55:58 Yeah, only because they would've did it before if they would've known what was possible. They just didn't spend enough time on the ground without stand-ups and without penalties to figure out there's so much you could do on the ground. And that's, that's w- what changed everything. That's what made it so that, uh, you don't have to fake fights anymore. Although there are fake fights, you know, especially in Japan.

Joe Rogan 56:16 Do you ... I don't think that's why they started faking fights. I think they just wanted to make it more entertaining, and they want to be able to do it every night.

Eddie Bravo 56:22 Well, yes, that's what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 56:23 If you travel on the road-

Eddie Bravo 56:24 No. No. No. No. That's what I'm saying. They wanna make it more entertaining. If it, if it's real, it's not entertaining, because you have two dudes-

Joe Rogan 56:29 Yeah. But also you, you wanna be able to do it every night. You want, you wanna be able to travel on the road-

Eddie Bravo 56:32 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 56:33 ... go town to town.

Eddie Bravo 56:33 I don't, I don't know their schedule. I don't know exactly how they're doing-

Joe Rogan 56:35 You can't beat each other up.

Eddie Bravo 56:36 Yeah, maybe they went out once every six months. Maybe they went out every once a month. I'm not too sure, uh, of the frequency of their fights, but 100%, you go, you take a time machine back to 1860 and you go to a carnival and you watch these two d- gu- dudes grapple, you're not gonna see, uh, high tech guard work.

Joe Rogan 56:55 Right. Right.

Eddie Bravo 56:55 You know what I mean? You're not gonna see high tech guard passing.

Joe Rogan 56:58 No.

Eddie Bravo 56:58 You're just not gonna see it.

Joe Rogan 56:58 Didn't exist. It's ... That's why it was so stunning-

Eddie Bravo 57:01 It exists in judo.

Joe Rogan 57:01 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 57:01 It exists in judo, but not that much because-

Joe Rogan 57:03 Not like that.

Eddie Bravo 57:04 Yeah. Unless you're doing Newaza. Newaza was a judo style that spent more time on the ground, but still they didn't make an impact like, like, uh, the Gracies did.

Joe Rogan 57:12 Well, when you watch, uh, someone who's a really good guard expert on their back and, you know, you, you watch someone trapped in that web, you know, it's, it's really ... It's very interesting.

Eddie Bravo 57:22 Yeah. And now you don't have to fake it.

Joe Rogan 57:23 And it didn't exist before the UFC.

Eddie Bravo 57:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:25 That, that thought that a guy on his back could be, like, super dangerous, that was a totally-

Eddie Bravo 57:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:30 ... new concept.

Eddie Bravo 57:30 Yeah. Dan Severn, Royce Gracie.

Joe Rogan 57:32 Yeah, that was the one.

Eddie Bravo 57:33 That's what ... Yeah, a fight like that wouldn't exist. I mean, he was on his back and he had Dan Severn in his guard, I don't know, like 15 minutes or something like that.

Joe Rogan 57:41 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 57:41 It was a long time. That was the longest match Royce had been in, and he ended up triangling him, you know? You, uh, you know, when you, when there are no stand-ups, a lot more, uh, patience is involved and, um, setups and, and there's so much more. It's like a whole nother dimension opens up when there's no stand-ups.

Joe Rogan 58:05 So, this weekend is Darren Till versus Wonderb- or excuse me, versus Tyron Woodley. Why'd I say versus Wonderboy? What kind of flip was that? No, you know why? 'Cause I was reading a article of ... This is a really interesting article about Wonderboy in his last three fights. The two fights with, uh, Tyron Woodley that were super duper close, and then one fight with Darren Till that was also really close. And they were talking about, like, how, um, if you looked at it on paper, the people from outside, I think they were, they were saying the global scorecard. I think that's how they're describing it, meaning how people scored it, like, on average around the world. Uh, more people gave it to Wonderboy than gave it to, uh, Darren Till. And the same thing happened with, um, the Tyron Woodley fights. I feel like the decisions were right in all those fights. I feel like, um, in the Woodley fights in particular, Woodley hurt Wonderboy. Wonderboy didn't really hurt Woodley. I think that counts for more. It just does. Woodley, um ... Tyron Woodley had him out. I mean, he had him really hurt. And Wonderboy never had Tyron in that kind of trouble in either one of those fights, so I would, I would give that advantage clearly to Tyron. I would think that if he lost that fight, that wouldn't make any sense, 'cause fights are supposed to be about who does the most damage, who of ... who's more effective. I mean, Wonderboy was effective for more time, but that's just, like, movement and sticking and hitting, hitting him with small shots, but Tyron put him on, you know, unconsciousness's door. He was, like, right there. It was very dangerous.

Eddie Bravo 59:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:34 It was way different in terms of the impacts-

Eddie Bravo 59:35 And plus, you gotta take the belt, right?

Joe Rogan 59:36 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 59:37 Because-

Joe Rogan 59:37 Well, I, I'm not, I'm not sure I believe that. I think, you know, if someone really wins a decision, they really win a decision. But it's just ... What's most important is damage. If you ... You guys are basically in a striking exchange. We're not talking about, like, submission attempts versus striking exchanges, like which one's better. He almost had him choked out with that triangle. Well, he almost had him knocked out with that left hook. We're not talking about that, because it was basically just a striking match. And in just a plain old striking match, Woodley was the one who landed the bigger shots. In my mind, we've gotta figure out a way to quantify that. It just doesn't make any sense where you could see a guy having a guy fucked up and almost out. To where I think the same way about the Robert Whitaker, Yoel Romero fight. There's two rounds in that fight where Yoel Romero is landing bombs on Whitaker, and Whitaker's hurt bad. How does he lose that fight? I don't understand that. It doesn't make ... To me, even if it makes sense in the current scoring system, that scoring system is fucking flawed. That shit doesn't make any sense. Like, logically when you're looking at what is the, what's the ultimate goal of fighting? But if you look at those three fights, just at least on paper, Wonderboy's like right up there, and Darren Till with one fight with Cowboy, one fight with him, those two fights were their most high profile fights of his career. Boom. Already got a title shot. It's really interesting. That's how, that's how talented Darren Till is. People are so interested in him, 17 and 0, 25 years old, they're like, "Fuck, give him a chance." The real battle for this guy almost is not just, uh, the fight, which is gonna be, of course, a battle, but making 170, and how much longer does he do that?... he's, I mean, he fucking ... He is hurting to get down to 170. Apparently, he was at-

Eddie Bravo 1:01:21 Till?

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 ... 182. Yes, he's giant, dude. Giant. You ever see how much bigger he is than Woodley? There's a, the video at the press conference where they stand next to each other and-

Eddie Bravo 1:01:30 How tall is he?

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 ... Till puts his hands over his head.

Eddie Bravo 1:01:33 I can't tell. It says inches.

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 Oh, he's got to be 6'2", but he said a big, giant 6'2".

Young Jamie 1:01:38 Oh, yeah. That's six foot even.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 That's just six foot even?

Young Jamie 1:01:41 Yeah, 72 inches.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 That's right. It is. He seems way taller than that.

Eddie Bravo 1:01:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 Watch the, go to the video of them, um ... That's crazy. Why'd I think he was 6'2"? Anyway, just, still, we're talking 170.

Eddie Bravo 1:01:56 He is clearly taller.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 He's a big fucker too. It's not just tall. He's thick. You know, he's, uh, he's a big fucking guy. And he has a hard time making that weight. Look how fucking big he is, dude. Seriously.

Young Jamie 1:02:09 It's only three inches? That looks like more than that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 That looks like more than three inches. Unless he's wearing some crazy cowboy boots.

Young Jamie 1:02:15 Maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 I don't know, but look-

Eddie Bravo 1:02:18 It's gonna be hard to do anything to Woodley, man.

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 Very hard.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:20 It's gonna be hard, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 Well, there's a bunch of things with Woodley.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:23 Very hard.

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 First of all, the fucking speed. You're dealing with speed that you, you probably haven't seen before.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:28 Exactly. And the, his level of wrestling.

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 Look at these two guys.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:32 Has Till-

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 That's, that's not a lead.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:33 ... submitted anybody?

Joe Rogan 1:02:34 That's not a lead.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:34 Is he, does he-

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 No, no, no.

Young Jamie 1:02:35 Yes.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:35 His Jiu-Jitsu isn't done?

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 No. There's no submitting with Till. I mean, he knows Jiu-Jitsu for sure. He lived in Brazil for a few years. He actually speaks, speaks Portuguese.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:43 Oh, shit. Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 Yeah. Um, he got stabbed in London, and then, uh, went to Brazil to fucking recoup and hi- hang out and live there for a while. I don't know the full story of it, but he speaks perfect Portuguese.

Eddie Bravo 1:02:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 One o- after one of his fights in Brazil, he addressed the crowd in, uh, Portuguese. It was pretty crazy.

Eddie Bravo 1:03:02 I, I haven't heard any trash talking from, uh, Conor. Has that, have I, have I missed it?

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 He's not doing any press. He's not doing-

Eddie Bravo 1:03:09 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 He's like-

Eddie Bravo 1:03:10 He's not doing anything?

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 ... "Figured it out."

Eddie Bravo 1:03:12 (laughs)

Young Jamie 1:03:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 "You figured out the promotion on your own. I'm over here."

Eddie Bravo 1:03:15 Seriously?

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 "I'm over here."

Eddie Bravo 1:03:16 He's not doing shit?

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 "I'm counting my millions."

Eddie Bravo 1:03:17 What about a countdown show? What about a countdown show?

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 He's, he's, he's ... I ba- I think he basically said, "Listen, man. I'm gonna fight and that's it. That's what's gonna happen. October 6th, I'm gonna fight and that's it. I'm not doing nothing."

Eddie Bravo 1:03:28 What? Seriously? I thought he liked the promotion.

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 I think-

Eddie Bravo 1:03:30 I thought he liked it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 ... I think he's done, man. You know, he's hit that ... First of all, he just won $100 million. He probably thinks, "You can suck all the dicks. I'm here right now if you want me. Like, I wanna fight. That's what I wanna do. I don't wanna do any of your bullshit. I wanna fight. So on October 6th, I'm gonna show up and fight. Figure out all the rest. On October 5th, I'll be there to make weight. October 6th, I'm gonna-"

Eddie Bravo 1:03:52 Dude, that ain't s- and his accent though.

Joe Rogan 1:03:53 "I wish I could. I'd have to listen to him a few more times."

Eddie Bravo 1:03:56 (laughs)

Young Jamie 1:03:57 That's gonna be dicey.

Joe Rogan 1:03:57 "If he dies, he dies then," it says. Hold on. Go back down.

Young Jamie 1:04:00 Oh, sorry.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 What are you doing? "If he dies, he dies then. I'm paid twice."

Young Jamie 1:04:05 He's got 1.3 million likes.

Eddie Bravo 1:04:06 What does that mean?

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 Yeah, that's a lot of likes.

Young Jamie 1:04:08 So much promotion-

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 What does that mean?

Young Jamie 1:04:09 ... right there.

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Eh, he's trying to just stay relevant. He's trying to put some words out there, look sexy. Probably got somebody doing it for him, some little assistant. And, you know, he's probably concentrating on the fight and they said, "Conor, is this good?" And he's like, "Yeah, it's fucking good. Put it up." (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 1:04:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 I c- I'll tell you what, man. I can't fucking wait for that fight.

Eddie Bravo 1:04:29 And you know, you know if one of them drop out-

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 Mm.

Eddie Bravo 1:04:32 ... you know Tony gets-

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 Tony Ferguson.

Eddie Bravo 1:04:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 Yeah. Tony Ferguson's ready to go.

Eddie Bravo 1:04:35 He's ready to go. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:36 And he's on the, the card anyway, in the undercard against Pettis, right?

Eddie Bravo 1:04:39 Yes. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 So, they would definitely do Ferguson and not Pettis?

Eddie Bravo 1:04:43 (smacks lips) Uh, I think so. I'm not sure.

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 Hm. I think ... Did they offer Nurmagomedov to Pettis when all that shit was going down in New York, in Brooklyn? I know they offered it to, um ... They were gonna have it Chiesa, but Chiesa got cut, right? And they wouldn't, they didn't let Paul Felder, 'cause Paul Felder wasn't ranked high enough, which is crazy.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 And they let Al Iaquinta do it. But there was, I think they offered it to Pettis-

Young Jamie 1:05:08 The report was Pettis and Felder were both denied.

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 Hm. Interesting.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 Pettis and Felder both denied. Well, um, you know, Pettis just beat Chiesa by triangle. He looked good. He looked like he's back. That, I'm, I don't, I, uh, selfishly hope that, uh, no one drops out, 'cause first of all I wanna see that fight, but two, I really wanna see Tony versus Pettis.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 That's a-

Eddie Bravo 1:05:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 That's a really interesting fight, man.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:33 Yeah, Tony's looking good, man.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 I bet he is.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:35 Tony's looking good.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 It's amazing how quick he came back from that surgery.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:38 It's amazing, man. It's amazing. He's looking really good, man.

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 He's breakdancing.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 I watched him breakdance.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 Like, this guy just blew his knee, like, his-

Eddie Bravo 1:05:45 He, he, he-

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 ... ligaments off his bones.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:47 Quit drinking. No more drinking. He's, it's clean as fuck. His diet's, uh, ins- ... He looks great right now. He looks great.

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 Wow.

Eddie Bravo 1:05:54 Yeah. He's in, he's in tremendous shape. How mu-

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 How much was he drinking before?

Eddie Bravo 1:05:58 He's in, uh, the best shape of his life. Uh, you know, a couple beers here and there. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:06:02 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:02 Uh, no big deal, but he's, um ...

Joe Rogan 1:06:04 But he said, "Fuck it." None of that now.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:06 Oh, dude. That injury just changed everything for him. That injury was like, it just made him re- reevaluate his life.

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 Hm.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:12 And now he's coming back stronger than ever, man.

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 Well, when something like that happens, you realize like, whoa, one of these that's really this catastrophic could be the end of my career.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:22 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 It's possible.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:23 And it's so possible that Conor or Khabib could drop out. That's so possible.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 So possible.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:30 That's so possible.

Joe Rogan 1:06:30 So possible.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:30 That's the backup plan. Pettis and Tony is the backup plan.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 Well, what are we at now? We're still a month away.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 Today's the 6th.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:37 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:06:37 We have a whole month.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:39 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:06:39 Dude, the world could fall apart in a month.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 In a month?

Eddie Bravo 1:06:42 Yeah. And it, that weekend is gonna be fucking insane 'cause that's, that's in Vegas on th- on that Saturday. The Friday before is quintet three. That's gonna be insane.

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 What's that?

Eddie Bravo 1:06:52 Have you seen quintet yet?

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 No.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:53 The team Jiu-Jitsu? Team savoni Jiu-Jitsu?

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 What? What?

Eddie Bravo 1:06:56 Sakuraba show.

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Oh my God.

Eddie Bravo 1:06:59 Dude!

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 Okay, okay, okay. I'm confused. I thought you meant team like four guys against four guys attacking each other all at once.

Eddie Bravo 1:07:05 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 'Cause I was watching that video, the Russian guy. It's still in my head.

Eddie Bravo 1:07:08 It's, yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:07:09 Oh.

Eddie Bravo 1:07:09 Quintet is Sak-

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 Yes.

Eddie Bravo 1:07:10 ... Sakuraba's show.

Joe Rogan 1:07:11 Yes. I did. I saw that Boogie choked out Sakuraba. I was like-

Eddie Bravo 1:07:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:14 ... "That is the craziest shit I've ever seen in my life."

Eddie Bravo 1:07:15 That was the craziest experience I've ever been in my life as, as far as Jiu-Jitsu goes. It's so different. We have never, we have never done this.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 1:07:24 ... teen jiu-jitsu? It's fucking insane. There were so many ups and downs, man.

Joe Rogan 1:07:30 It was crazy and when-

Eddie Bravo 1:07:30 It was insane.

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 Why was Gio grappling against a guy that was so big?

Eddie Bravo 1:07:35 Well, this is the way they do it, okay? So there's four teams. It's a, it's a four-man bracket.

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 Right.

Eddie Bravo 1:07:39 And, you know, the winner of these two teams fights the winner of these two teams and then they have, they're in the finals. So it's five on five. 950 pound weight limit. So you get to d-

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 For the whole stack?

Eddie Bravo 1:07:50 Yeah, for the whole five.

Joe Rogan 1:07:51 Oh my God.

Eddie Bravo 1:07:51 You get to divvy it however you want. You can get two monsters here-

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 Oh, that's so crazy.

Eddie Bravo 1:07:55 ... two monsters, but then you gotta have like littler guys here. So, um, and what ends up happening, we had two mo- we had Adam Sacknoff and Amir Alom are two giant guys, they're like both like 220. And then, uh, we had Gio, PJ, and Boogy, um, th- made up the rest of the team. So we had two big guys, a couple medium guys, and then Gio's the small guy. Gio's is the smallest guy but he's like the-

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 And Gio's like 145?

Eddie Bravo 1:08:22 145. Well, he does well, he fights 135. He fights 130-

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 Right but he walks around like-

Eddie Bravo 1:08:26 140.

Joe Rogan 1:08:27 Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 1:08:27 Like 140. So you, every team has to submit the order they want their fighters to go but without knowing your opponent's order. So you, you just line 'em up however you want and then boom, they just bam, this is the matchup. You're like, "Oh, shit." You know, um, you could have giants against little dudes.

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 Mm-hmm.

Eddie Bravo 1:08:46 You know, it's all mixed up.

Joe Rogan 1:08:47 Right.

Eddie Bravo 1:08:47 You just bam and-

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 Does anybody have to agree?

Eddie Bravo 1:08:50 Nope.

Joe Rogan 1:08:50 So who gets to p- put the guy out first, like when you're making the decision?

Eddie Bravo 1:08:54 No, this is what happens. You have to, y- every team has to submit the order that they want their, their fighters to go out. So I had, we just-

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 Oh, so it's random.

Eddie Bravo 1:09:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:02 So I say, "Eddie, you go out first, Jamie goes out second."

Eddie Bravo 1:09:04 Write it down, submit it, and they go boom.

Joe Rogan 1:09:06 And that's it. And then they just put them together.

Eddie Bravo 1:09:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 That's ridiculous.

Eddie Bravo 1:09:08 Yeah, you don't know how your, your, your opponents, uh, the other team's gonna line 'em up so boom, when they line up, when they, when you see how it lined up you're like, "Oh, shit." So the craziest thing was (clears throat) we, you know, we had to beat, um, the first team we went against was, um, Ishi's team. Ishi is the biggest m- m- best built Japanese of all time. Of all time, this like 250 pound Japanese, like 6'3", 6'4", built like Ray Lewis.

Joe Rogan 1:09:41 Is Ishi the gold medalist?

Eddie Bravo 1:09:42 Gold medalist in Judo.

Joe Rogan 1:09:45 In Judo. Yeah.

Eddie Bravo 1:09:45 He's in- dude, he's so cool too. The guy, he's awesome, he, he's uh, his, his English is pretty good. And um, just-

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 He fought MMA a little bit.

Eddie Bravo 1:09:53 Yeah, in Japan. The dude is, I've never seen a Japanese built like this motherfucker. I've never, he's like Brock fucking Lesnar and shit.

Joe Rogan 1:09:59 (laughs)

Eddie Bravo 1:09:59 You know what I mean? It's insane. He's, he's a, he's a very intimidating and giant. So that was the first team