JRE MMA Show #44 with John Kavanagh & George Lockhart

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Here we go in…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Here we go in four, three, two... (slaps legs) Boom. George Lockhart, John Kavanagh. How are you folks?

   2. JKJohn Kavanagh0:10

      Hello, sir. (laughs)

   3. GLGeorge Lockhart0:11

      Doing great.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Good to see you.

   5. JKJohn Kavanagh0:13

      Good to be here.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Um, so Saturday night, what are your thoughts now that we- we're sitting here, it's Monday morning, the- the Khabib-McGregor fight went down-

   7. JKJohn Kavanagh0:23

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      ... Saturday night?

   9. JKJohn Kavanagh0:25

      Um, obviously hugely disappointed-

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       Yeah.

   11. JKJohn Kavanagh0:28

       ... that we didn't get the result on the night. Um, I still enjoyed it. I thought it was a great fight. I'm looking forward to watching it back many times. All of Conor's fights, I always pull a load of lessons away that I can pass on to the- the next generation of guys. But yeah, overall, I- I really enjoyed the fight and I'm devastated that we didn't get the- the win.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Yeah. How much time did he have to prepare for this fight?

   13. JKJohn Kavanagh0:49

       Um, I mean, he's always in the gym. He's al- he's- he's always knocking about, but I guess it was official about 10 weeks, 10 weeks out. But even since the Eddie fight, I kind of knew, or at least I thought his next MMA fight would be Khabib. It just- just kind of made sense. If it wasn't going to be the- the Diaz, but then as time went on that- that seemed less and less likely. And Khabib obviously was doing great, get- you know, kept on winning. So there was a- a path that was going to collide.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:16

       Was there anything that was surprising in the fight?

   15. JKJohn Kavanagh1:20

       Um, the- the- the right hand in the second round was-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       Yeah.

   17. JKJohn Kavanagh1:23

       ... was a cracker. It was beautiful overhand right, I mean it's a- it's a staple of wrestlers, overhand right and close, but he doesn't, uh, generally do that. He's more jab and then close, but-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JKJohn Kavanagh1:32

       ... that was a great shot. Um, the style of take downs, everything was kind of what we expected, and we- we'd spent a lot of time on preparing for that. Um, yeah, just I- I, you know, kind of expected round one (clears throat) , for sure going to get a take down. So the- the goal of round one was to get out of it still having energy. We didn't want to put a huge amount of effort into trying to get back up in round one, which seemed to happen many times in his other opponents. Had to kind of go back to the stool, you know, really tired. So round one, make him pay, you know, do our best on the way in, fight as hard as we can, but if we do end up down, uh, which it was against the fence, figured it would be there, tried to stay seated up. If we end up on our back, just try to play guard until- until the- until the bell, except it will be a 10-9 round. Um, (clears throat) for round two, again, a- a- same- same plan. Uh, do as much damage as we can, but if we end up on our back, uh, don't put a huge amount of effort in trying to get up. He's an absolute master at re-grounding people. Um, that turned out to be a 10-8 round. You know, he got some good shots there and obviously he landed the great, uh, right hand, so that was a bit more than we, uh, hoped for. Round three things started kind of turning a little bit i- in our favor. Um, he did a lot better at keeping it in the middle, defending the take downs.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:54

       So the plan was to slow him down a little and watch him slow down a little bit in the third, fourth, and fifth?

   21. JKJohn Kavanagh2:59

       Yeah, exactly, yeah. So I think at- at- at the beginning the- the- the consensus was Conor knocks him out in the first or Khabib, you know, takes over from two on. Like, for us to win the third round was probably a bit of a surprise to people. But, um, you know, y- you know, with Ali Quinn, the fight, if you look at that, from round three on he wasn't able to hit any take downs. Um, so hoped that's what we have going round three, we could defend the take downs a lot easier and start landing our shots. And- and that did happen for- for round three, not as well as I- as we planned, not as well as we hoped. And then in round four, you know, he hit another great take down (clears throat) , made a mistake giving up the overhook, exposed our back, and, uh, that was all she wrote.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:41

       Yeah, he has such a unique ability to tie both legs up with his legs.

   23. JKJohn Kavanagh3:45

       Yeah. I- in round one-

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:47

       He's so good at that.

   25. JKJohn Kavanagh3:47

       In round one, I thought, uh, Conor did well. We had practiced for that for, uh, to keep our legs bent.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:52

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JKJohn Kavanagh3:52

       You know, you see guys they straighten their legs and then... And Conor did do that a couple of times, but he was able to c- continuously get a leg free. So, uh, not until the last 30 seconds or so of round one, he didn't really tie them up and get them flat on his back. For the majority of that, he was against, uh, the fence, you know, used his hands to keep upright, tried to land little shots. Um, yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:15

       And George, you, uh, you dealt with Conor's weight cut, you deal with his overall nutrition as well?

   29. GLGeorge Lockhart4:22

       Yes, sir.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       Pull that microphone close to you like we talked about.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   80/20 meaning? …

   1. GLGeorge Lockhart15:00

      take that formula, we find out, okay, this is the amount of calories that this individual burns during this period of time, and then we actually break it down even more. Because if you jog and you burn 1,000 calories, right? And if you lift and burn 1,000 calories, well, it's same amount of calories, but you have to refuel the body differently. Because if you jog, your, your body's using a lot more fat. If you're, if you're lifting, your body's using a lot more carbohydrates. Again, it goes to giving the body what it needs when it needs it. So we'll look at it and be like, okay, well, if it's a level 10, and then we'll ... Literally, and we have the formulas for it, so, uh, a 10 would be, uh, 80/20. So you, you find out the amount of calories this individual is burning and you-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      80/20 meaning?

   3. GLGeorge Lockhart15:40

      80% carbohydrates, 20%, uh-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:42

      Proteins?

   5. GLGeorge Lockhart15:43

      Proteins, right. And as you-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:44

      Well, what kind of carbohydrates do you mostly funk- focus on?

   7. GLGeorge Lockhart15:47

      So your body has, um, some called, uh, you know, you have receptors in the body, right?And you know, people think that, like, "Well, you know, if I, if I, if I need carbohydrates, my body's just gonna ingest them," and it doesn't work like that. Um, your body can process about one c- uh, gram of carbohydrate per minute, right? But if you are able to actually excess more, or, um, actually, um, use more than one, um, transporter the- um, at a time, you can actually go to about two th- uh, 2.3 grams per minute. And, uh, you have, you have Glut1, Glut2, Glut3, Glut4, and then you got the sGlut1, sGlut2. Each one of these has a different thing that actually activates them, right? Like, an sGlut2 is, is a sodium-dependent transporter, right? If you, if you use a sodium-dependent transporter, and Glut4 is, is a insulin-dependent transporter. Uh, Glut1 is, uh, I believe, um ... Oh, no, I'm sorry. Glut5 is a fructose. Uh, it's activated by fructose, right? So if you use more than one of these transporters at a time, you activate these transporters, they're literally ... You're able to actually synthesize carbohydrates twice as fast.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:58

      So you're doing different types of carbohydrates and mixing them together?

   9. GLGeorge Lockhart17:01

      100%

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       Like, what would be an example of, like, a Glut1?

   11. GLGeorge Lockhart17:04

       Uh, uh, sGlut1 is a sodium-dependent transporter, so you gotta make it sodium-dependent, you gotta make sure that you add sodium, right? Glut4 is the insulin-dependent transporter. So what, what's gonna help, uh, insulin be transported? You, you need something that's high glycemic. So something that's dextrose, right? Like, dextrose.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:21

       So what, but what is, like, a food that's a Glut1?

   13. GLGeorge Lockhart17:24

       Um, well, salt. Break it down. Salt. And then, uh, Glut, uh, Glut5, or Glut5 would be, uh, fructose, which would be fruit, right? So we, you know, I'll f- I'll, uh, break down fruit for him. And then dextrose is, is basically, like, any type of sugar that you have, you know what I mean? So, um, that's basically ... We, we incorporate sugar, fructose, and salt. You put those together. Now the funny thing is, is when you incorporate caffeine, uh, y- it's been shown that caffeine post-workout, you'll, you'll see four times the amount of glycogen in the muscle, uh, post-workout if you take the, uh, the caffeine.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:05

       Really?

   15. GLGeorge Lockhart18:06

       Yeah. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:06

       Do you take it in the form of caffeine pills, or do you take coffee? Like, what do you do?

   17. GLGeorge Lockhart18:10

       Oh, I'll, I'll incorporate it with ...... like, uh, the-- the post-workout. You know, like, uh, with the-

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:15

       Like, a coffee shake?

   19. GLGeorge Lockhart18:16

       ... with the sponsor. Yeah. I-- it's a anhydrous, like a-- it's a-- it's-- it's stronger type. Sometimes I'll see, like, okay, if he's-- if he's obviously going to bed later, it'll be more of a green tea-type, uh, caffeine. But yeah, I mean, the funny thing is, is like, it's shown that caffeine post-workout, four times the amount of carbohydrates are in the muscle, and I have yet to find out why. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:40

       (laughs)

   21. GLGeorge Lockhart18:40

       I, I, I... you know, I talked to, um, uh, Andy, uh, Gal-

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:45

       Galpin?

   23. GLGeorge Lockhart18:46

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:46

       Yeah.

   25. GLGeorge Lockhart18:46

       Dude, I love that guy. Love him.

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:47

       He's amazing, yeah.

   27. GLGeorge Lockhart18:48

       I'm like, "Hey, man, I just..." I'm like, "Bro, I wanna get you in a room for, like, an hour and just talk to you." Um, but, uh, I was like... and I asked him that, and he's like, "Honestly, I don't know either." And I was like, "Shit." I was like, "Fuck."

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:58

       (laughs)

   29. GLGeorge Lockhart18:58

       You know, uh, you know what I mean? So, uh... but, you know, the thing is, I don't know why, but-

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:04

       But it works.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Do you work with…

   1. GLGeorge Lockhart30:00

      glycogen their body holds and how much water that is attached to that glycogen.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      Do you work with Yoel Romero?

   3. GLGeorge Lockhart30:07

      We did, yes.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:08

      That dude... I look at that guy and I go, "How the fuck-"

   5. GLGeorge Lockhart30:12

      Bro.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:12

      "... is that 185-pound man?"

   7. GLGeorge Lockhart30:15

      You wanna... you wanna hear... you wanna hear some stats with us, man?

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      Yeah.

   9. GLGeorge Lockhart30:18

      So people, people are like, "Oh, you know, like, I don't have 100%...... you know, like, rate, Joe. And I take pride. I-

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:24

       Of, uh, weight- Making weight?

   11. GLGeorge Lockhart30:26

       Yeah. I take- I take pride in that shit. You know why? 'Cause I've taken motherfuckers that I know they're not gonna make weight. I know that bitch ain't gonna make weight.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:32

       (laughs)

   13. GLGeorge Lockhart30:32

       You know what I'm saying? But, dude, I'm like, "Hey, man, my-" You know, I- I wanna either, A, be there to be like, "Bitches, he's not gonna make it." And I cut that shit. I cut it.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:41

       Right.

   15. GLGeorge Lockhart30:42

       I've- I've got coaches that are like, "He's being a pussy." I'm like, "Dude-"

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       "He's gonna die."

   17. GLGeorge Lockhart30:45

       "... he literally has fucking cut .2 goddamn pounds in the last 30 minutes. He's got 10 pounds to go, he ain't gonna make it."

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:52

       Right.

   19. GLGeorge Lockhart30:52

       "His kidneys are gonna be f- Oh, he's being a pussy."

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       Ah.

   21. GLGeorge Lockhart30:55

       I'm, yeah, fuck, you know, "Fuck you guys, man." I cut it off, you know what I'm saying?

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       Mm-hmm.

   23. GLGeorge Lockhart30:58

       Um, with Yoel... This is between us, right?

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:04

       Yeah.

   25. GLGeorge Lockhart31:04

       No one's listening.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:05

       Nobody's listening.

   27. GLGeorge Lockhart31:05

       So, no one's listening. So, um, in Australia he showed up at 198 and he missed by two and a half pounds, right? With us he showed up 217 pounds-

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       (gasps)

   29. GLGeorge Lockhart31:16

       ... and missed by .2. And the only reason that he fucking missed by that .2 is 'cause the fucking athletic commission-

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:21

       Yeah, the commission in New York pulled him off.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Right. …

   1. GLGeorge Lockhart45:00

      250, take 250 milligrams of fucking sodium, and you're good to go.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:03

      Right.

   3. GLGeorge Lockhart45:03

      You know what I mean?

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      So how do you have them take the sodium? In what form?

   5. GLGeorge Lockhart45:06

      Hmm. (clicks tongue) It's all gonna be like... I, I actually want them to take, uh, carbohydrates during and post-workout.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      During?

   7. GLGeorge Lockhart45:14

      Yeah. So reducing-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:15

      In what, in what form? Fruit?

   9. GLGeorge Lockhart45:16

      Uh, fruit. Yeah, fr- so it's gonna be blended fruit and, and, and, uh, the dextrose is gonna be a specific type of sugar. They drink it, and what happens is when you increase insulin, that actually decreases, uh, cortisol. Right? (clicks tongue) Cortisol is not a fucking bad thing, man. It's a glucocorticoid that actually helps get rid of inflammation. Problem is, like, people, like, nowadays are like, "Oh, it's the fucking stress hormones." You're like your body doesn't create a fucking hormone that's bad for you. It's not going to. Like, your body does not create something that is bad for you.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:45

       It's just bad for you at the wrong times and in the wrong doses.

   11. GLGeorge Lockhart45:48

       And i- excessive... Like insulin.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Yeah. Right.

   13. GLGeorge Lockhart45:50

       You know, like, insulin, s- is insulin bad for you? Fuckin' ask a diabetic. They're like, "Fuck, I wish I had that shit." You know what I'm saying?

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:55

       (laughs)

   15. GLGeorge Lockhart45:55

       But-

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:56

       Right.

   17. GLGeorge Lockhart45:56

       ... when you have it in excessive amounts, you know what I'm saying, that's, that's our problem, man.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:00

       Right.

   19. GLGeorge Lockhart46:00

       We, we just, we don't know when to take it and how much to take.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:03

       So do you have guys take those glucose gels, like those, like, runners take? Like what are you-

   21. GLGeorge Lockhart46:07

       No.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:08

       No?

   23. GLGeorge Lockhart46:08

       (smacks lips) No, no. I actually, you know, like, you know, I find out what guys like too, you know. At the end of the day, like, (inhales deeply) consistency on a diet is the most important fucking thing. If I get somebody on the zone diet, the paleo diet, the fucking grapefruit diet, there's 75,000 diets in the fucking, you know, on the internet right now today. If I fucking have you consistent on one diet, you're gonna fucking see results. Consistency. And I always tell people, I'm like, "I'd rather you be 100, 100% consistent on 10% of my diet than 100% con- uh, consistent on 10% of the diet." You know what I'm saying?

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:39

       Mm-hmm.

   25. GLGeorge Lockhart46:39

       Like, um, so at the end of the day like, I have guys that are like, they have sugar teeth. They're like, "Fuck, man, what..." Goddamn eat some fucking Twizzlers post-workout. Your body's gonna fucking use it. Your body is gonna use it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:51

       Hmm.

   27. GLGeorge Lockhart46:52

       You know what I'm saying?

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       I heard that before. Like, people that recommend candy-

   29. GLGeorge Lockhart46:55

       100%.

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       ... post-workout.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:06:50

   I mean, am I…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

   2. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:00

      I mean, am I talking business or I'm talking reality here?

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:02

      Reality. (laughs)

   4. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:04

      (laughs) Yeah, of course, man. It's going-

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:05

      It does. So it's a point of diminishing returns, right? Like, you gotta figure out when do you hit that point?

   6. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:09

      Point, yeah. And, and, uh-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:10

      'Cause you look at guys like Dustin Poirier, done much better at 155.

   8. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:14

      Yeah, you know-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      Looks better.

   10. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:15

       Dude, I mean, I worked with, you know ... I- I'll never forget. Like, I worked with Dustin when he first got into UFC and they were like, "He needs to be 145 in, in 21 days." I'm like, "Let's fucking do it, man." You know, like, him and fucking, um, you know, so many motherfuckers. You know what I mean? And you're, you're absolutely right. You know, um, you look at that Kelvin Gastelum, you know?

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       Mm-hmm.

   12. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:34

       People don't realize, like, the point of a fight camp is not to make weight. The point of a fight camp is to increase your skill, increase your ability. Like, it should be periodization. You know what I'm saying? We're talking about-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

       Mm-hmm.

   14. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:45

       ... like, the big beef, you know ... (growls) You know, big motherfuckers that, like, yeah. You're like, "This guy is the strength and conditioning coach." He don't know shit about periodization. Like-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:52

       Do you work with Kelvin?

   16. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:54

       Yeah, we-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

       (laughs)

   18. GLGeorge Lockhart1:00:55

       ... we, we work together a lot. And it's ... You know, like now, um, we don't work so much together. You know, like, when he was ... And that's one of the things. Like, a lot of guys will work with us when they have to make weight. There are certain guys like Frank Yeager-... Edgar's like, dude, he invests in himself. He knows that, like... There's... I mean, he shows up almost on weight, but he's... it's all about performance. He knows that, you know what I mean?

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:16

       Mm-hmm.

   20. GLGeorge Lockhart1:01:16

       Same thing with, uh-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

       Well, he's a guy who fought at 155 when he really was 155.

   22. GLGeorge Lockhart1:01:22

       I can get him to 125, no problem.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

       (coughs) What?

   24. GLGeorge Lockhart1:01:24

       Easy as day, bro.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:25

       125?

   26. GLGeorge Lockhart1:01:26

       Bro, I could get him in there-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:27

       Because people were talking about him fighting at 135.

   28. GLGeorge Lockhart1:01:29

       Yeah, you can-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:30

       You're saying you could get him to fight-

   30. GLGeorge Lockhart1:01:31

       100%.

Episode duration: 2:02:05