Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #44 with John Kavanagh & George Lockhart

Joe is joined by MMA coach & Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioner, John Kavanagh, and performance nutrition specialist George Lockhart.

Joe RoganhostJohn KavanaghguestGeorge Lockhartguest
Oct 8, 20182h 2mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:01 – 1:32

    Post-fight reaction to Khabib vs. McGregor: what surprised them and why it ended

    1. JR

      Here we go in four, three, two... (slaps legs) Boom. George Lockhart, John Kavanagh. How are you folks?

    2. JK

      Hello, sir. (laughs)

    3. GL

      Doing great.

    4. JR

      Good to see you.

    5. JK

      Good to be here.

    6. JR

      Um, so Saturday night, what are your thoughts now that we- we're sitting here, it's Monday morning, the- the Khabib-McGregor fight went down-

    7. JK

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JR

      ... Saturday night?

    9. JK

      Um, obviously hugely disappointed-

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. JK

      ... that we didn't get the result on the night. Um, I still enjoyed it. I thought it was a great fight. I'm looking forward to watching it back many times. All of Conor's fights, I always pull a load of lessons away that I can pass on to the- the next generation of guys. But yeah, overall, I- I really enjoyed the fight and I'm devastated that we didn't get the- the win.

    12. JR

      Yeah. How much time did he have to prepare for this fight?

    13. JK

      Um, I mean, he's always in the gym. He's al- he's- he's always knocking about, but I guess it was official about 10 weeks, 10 weeks out. But even since the Eddie fight, I kind of knew, or at least I thought his next MMA fight would be Khabib. It just- just kind of made sense. If it wasn't going to be the- the Diaz, but then as time went on that- that seemed less and less likely. And Khabib obviously was doing great, get- you know, kept on winning. So there was a- a path that was going to collide.

    14. JR

      Was there anything that was surprising in the fight?

    15. JK

      Um, the- the- the right hand in the second round was-

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. JK

      ... was a cracker. It was beautiful overhand right, I mean it's a- it's a staple of wrestlers, overhand right and close, but he doesn't, uh, generally do that. He's more jab and then close, but-

    18. JR

      Mm-hmm.

  2. 1:32 – 4:15

    The strategic game plan: conserving energy under Khabib’s grappling pressure

    1. JK

      ... that was a great shot. Um, the style of take downs, everything was kind of what we expected, and we- we'd spent a lot of time on preparing for that. Um, yeah, just I- I, you know, kind of expected round one (clears throat) , for sure going to get a take down. So the- the goal of round one was to get out of it still having energy. We didn't want to put a huge amount of effort into trying to get back up in round one, which seemed to happen many times in his other opponents. Had to kind of go back to the stool, you know, really tired. So round one, make him pay, you know, do our best on the way in, fight as hard as we can, but if we do end up down, uh, which it was against the fence, figured it would be there, tried to stay seated up. If we end up on our back, just try to play guard until- until the- until the bell, except it will be a 10-9 round. Um, (clears throat) for round two, again, a- a- same- same plan. Uh, do as much damage as we can, but if we end up on our back, uh, don't put a huge amount of effort in trying to get up. He's an absolute master at re-grounding people. Um, that turned out to be a 10-8 round. You know, he got some good shots there and obviously he landed the great, uh, right hand, so that was a bit more than we, uh, hoped for. Round three things started kind of turning a little bit i- in our favor. Um, he did a lot better at keeping it in the middle, defending the take downs.

    2. JR

      So the plan was to slow him down a little and watch him slow down a little bit in the third, fourth, and fifth?

    3. JK

      Yeah, exactly, yeah. So I think at- at- at the beginning the- the- the consensus was Conor knocks him out in the first or Khabib, you know, takes over from two on. Like, for us to win the third round was probably a bit of a surprise to people. But, um, you know, y- you know, with Ali Quinn, the fight, if you look at that, from round three on he wasn't able to hit any take downs. Um, so hoped that's what we have going round three, we could defend the take downs a lot easier and start landing our shots. And- and that did happen for- for round three, not as well as I- as we planned, not as well as we hoped. And then in round four, you know, he hit another great take down (clears throat) , made a mistake giving up the overhook, exposed our back, and, uh, that was all she wrote.

    4. JR

      Yeah, he has such a unique ability to tie both legs up with his legs.

    5. JK

      Yeah. I- in round one-

    6. JR

      He's so good at that.

    7. JK

      In round one, I thought, uh, Conor did well. We had practiced for that for, uh, to keep our legs bent.

    8. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JK

      You know, you see guys they straighten their legs and then... And Conor did do that a couple of times, but he was able to c- continuously get a leg free. So, uh, not until the last 30 seconds or so of round one, he didn't really tie them up and get them flat on his back. For the majority of that, he was against, uh, the fence, you know, used his hands to keep upright, tried to land little shots. Um, yeah.

  3. 4:15 – 6:19

    Conor’s weight and UFC weight cuts: how Lockhart approached this camp

    1. JR

      And George, you, uh, you dealt with Conor's weight cut, you deal with his overall nutrition as well?

    2. GL

      Yes, sir.

    3. JR

      Pull that microphone close to you like we talked about.

    4. GL

      Here we go. Right, right here?

    5. JR

      There you go. Yeah, you can move it up if you want to-

    6. GL

      (clears throat)

    7. JR

      ... stay where you were.

    8. GL

      Technology.

    9. JR

      There you go. There you go.

    10. GL

      It's a- it's a- it's a work in progress.

    11. JR

      You, uh, you worked with him on his weight cut. Like, what- what was his weight before he started camp?

    12. GL

      Um, you know, it- it's almost exactly the same weight, uh, it was when we- we actually started the cut. Um, you know, we wanted to make sure that his weight was a little higher than, uh, you know, obviously with the boxing, with- with- with Floyd, you know, speed is everything, and we wanted to kind of slowly drop that weight down. But with this, we want to keep him as big as possible and then, you know, cut all that weight so he can-

    13. JR

      What was his weight?

    14. GL

      He was about 171 when he got back into that cage. So, you know.

    15. JR

      So what was his weight when you guys started camp?

    16. GL

      Uh, about- about the same thing.

    17. JR

      Same thing?

    18. GL

      The exact same thing, yeah. It was all about performance.

    19. JR

      So it's not an extreme weight cut?

    20. GL

      No, no.

    21. JR

      You know, 15-ish pounds...

    22. GL

      Yeah. In terms of cutting, you know, it was a- it was a easy day.

    23. JR

      What's the most you've ever had someone cut?

    24. GL

      Um, so, you know, on record with Drew Dober, he showed up at 185 on Tuesday and had to make 155 by Friday. So he was-

    25. JR

      Geez.

    26. GL

      ... 90% of his body weight-

    27. JR

      Christ.

    28. GL

      ... that we had it. Yeah.

    29. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    30. GL

      Yeah.

  4. 6:19 – 10:36

    How Lockhart learned weight cutting: Marines, self-experimentation, and applied science

    1. JR

      How did you learn how to do this?

    2. GL

      Honestly, man, like, um, I... I could be like, "Oh, I got this degree and I got this degree," but there's no degree in actual weight cutting, you know.

    3. JR

      Right.

    4. GL

      I started out in the Marine Corps, and uh, um, I was a heavyweight when I started fighting and then I ended up as a welterweight. And um...

    5. JR

      Wow.

    6. GL

      Yeah. (laughs) Yeah. Didn't do so well as a welterweight.

    7. JR

      Kind of the opposite of Anthony Rumble Johnson.

    8. GL

      (laughs) Right, right. You know, it was definitely not, uh, it wasn't... It didn't work out well for me. I was better at cutting the weight than I was actually at fighting. But, um, uh, learning through this process, okay, this... This... This works like this and this works like this, and there's... I mean, there's so many studies, um, that are out there, you know. Like you look at NSCA, you look at, you know, uh, uh, PubMed and all these other things. You... You see a study over here and you see a study over here, and you're like, okay, well we're gonna put these two together and... And actually see in terms of... Of actual weight cutting. And it's... It's rough because nobody's ever actually gonna do a study with the level of dehydration that these guys are doing. You know what I mean?

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. GL

      Like, oh yeah, this... This how you rehydrate these people.

    11. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    12. GL

      It's never... It's never gonna happen. So, you know, luckily we've, uh, you know... The amount of cuts that we do, we work with over 200 UFC fighters. Just... Just... I mean, just in UFC. I mean, obviously we work with a lot more, like, uh, Bellator and stuff like that. But, uh, being able to see like, okay, this works, this doesn't work, we need to kind of back this off.

    13. JR

      And when... When you say you work with them, if you work with 200 fighters, how hands-on are you with 200 different fighters?

    14. GL

      Um, it... It changes, you know, based on, um, you know, how... How much they need us, you know. A lot of the guys, we literally don't show up until the week of the fight, you know. Someone like Conor, you know, I'm out there six to eight weeks. I'm out there monitoring everything and, um, you know, the people that we are out there for, for... For eight weeks, it makes life a lot easier, you know what I'm saying?

    15. JR

      Now do you have anything to do with his meal planning as well, like during the camp?

    16. GL

      Conor?

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. GL

      100%. Yeah.

    19. JR

      100%? Everything.

    20. GL

      Everything that goes into his mouth, I'm... I'm... I'm monitoring like 100%.

    21. JR

      So from the moment you guys start in camp. What about outside of camp? Is he taking instruction from you and...

    22. GL

      Yeah, yeah. Conor, you know, he hit me up like, "Hey, I'm doing this," you know, like, uh, in terms of, like workout, that's a big one for him. Like, "I'll get pre-workout, post-workout. What... What should I be taking?"

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. GL

      Um, I tell him exactly what he should be taking and then, um, you know, basically stays on a regimen. And (laughs) at the end of the day, man, like diet, the word diet means food you eat in a habitual way. And, uh, (laughs) I... I like guys to actually live life a little bit, you know what I'm saying? When you're... When you're so regiment, like, "Okay, I gotta... I gotta count this carb and I gotta count this." It's... It's ridiculous, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, the fact that he actually is like, "Okay, I just... I just need to monitor what I'm taking pre/post workout," makes life easy for me.

    25. JR

      Did you go to school for nutrition or-

    26. GL

      Uh, in... In the Marine Corps, I was a combat conditioning specialist. I was actually an instructor trainer. So like, um, when you go... There's this place called the Martial Arts Center of Excellence, right? And, uh, they actually handpick Marines. Um, kind of been, you know, like in... You know, certain situations in the military. Uh, Brian Stan was, uh... Was actually, you know, a part of that and then, uh, they actually started something called the... The Combat Conditioning, um, uh, Program. And I was actually the... The... The guy that they actually had to teach all that. So they... They sent me everywhere, like, uh, I got to... To work with the, uh, the people from the, um, uh, Olympic Training Center. You know, I got to work with the PI in, uh, Florida. You know, like, uh, um, just learn from a lot of different people. But in terms of like... Like, I will say this, from weight cutting, there's actually not a s-... Like there's not a course. Like, you know, if you're a dietician or whatever, that's... That's great, but that doesn't help you in terms of weight cutting.

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. GL

      You... You go to somebody who's like, "Hey, man, I gotta lose 30 pounds in three days. What do I do?" You know?

    29. JR

      It's a very specific kind of discipline and-

    30. GL

      100%.

  5. 10:36 – 15:39

    Nutrition philosophy in camp: type, timing, portion size, and performance fueling

    1. JR

      And does... Do you vary your diets based on the way guys train or is it like pretty standard or does it vary depending upon how much weight they have to lose?

    2. GL

      No, no. Every diet is different. Like, I mean, people like themselves never eat the same diet twice, uh, the same person. Um, so like if you wake up at 6 o'clock in the morning versus 8 o'clock in the morning, you have to have a... A totally different diet. You know, like we... We feed people from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed.

    3. JR

      So what would be the... Say if someone likes to get up at 6 o'clock in the morning versus someone who likes to get up at 8:00?

    4. GL

      Right.

    5. JR

      Would it be in what time they have to train? Is that... Would that be the... The variable?

    6. GL

      That's one variable. You know, we... We base everything off type. Uh, type, timing, portion size or hormonal responses of foods. You know what I'm saying? Like, uh, uh, most diets nowadays, they actually, you know, they... They kind of stick to one aspect, like, um, the Atkins diet, you know, it sticks the types of foods, you know, like, uh, zone diet, it's, uh, portion size. We... We actually stick to all of them, you know, like type, timing, portion size, hormonal response food. Because, you know, if you look at all diets, they... They all work. All diets will work. You know, like if you're... If you're consistent to every single diet, if you do the same thing every single day, you're... You're s-... You're gonna see results.... but are you gonna get to a specific weight, and is your performance gonna be, uh, you know, increased over a, a, a fight camp? You know, that, that's when nutrition becomes, you know, v- extremely valuable.

    7. JR

      What would be the difference between someone getting up at 6:00 and someone getting up at 8:00?

    8. GL

      Uh, time they eat, you know? So if somebody wakes up at 6:00, they're gonna eat at 6:00 the morning. If somebody gets up at 8:00, they're gonna eat at 8:00 the morning. We feed 'em-

    9. JR

      So you have 'em, you have 'em eat as soon as they wake up?

    10. GL

      Yeah, absolutely. Yes, sir.

    11. JR

      Hm.

    12. GL

      You, you, you feed somebody to the moment they woke up to the moment they go to bed, you know?

    13. JR

      Like, what would be a typical breakfast meal?

    14. GL

      Um, we, we, we, we live off the, the basic rule, you give, uh, give people what they need when they need it. So, you know, if you're aerobic, right, your body's primary source of fuel is gonna be more fats. Uh, your brain's primary source of fuel is gonna be, uh, carbohydrates or glucose, right? So we, we give them, uh, like, a lot of fruits, right? The glucose to feed the brain. A lot of fats. You know, we make sure that we, you know, we get a, a good measurement of omega-3s to omega-6s, um, basically about a, about a 2:1 ratio. So throughout the day, you know, if they're, if they're aerobic throughout the day, we give 'em, you know, fruits, vegetables, um, omega-6, omega-3s. And then when, once they start working out, then, you know, depending on the workout, then that's when we start giving 'em, like, more starches and stuff like that.

    15. JR

      So basically just sort of a light breakfast of fruits and things along those lines to get everything moving.

    16. GL

      100%.

    17. JR

      And then after your first workout, like, what's a typical post-workout meal?

    18. GL

      Uh, it depends on the actual workout. We use something called, like ... I mean, you got the metabolic equivalent, right? So basically, the met is the amount of oxygen your body uses, and that, that's gonna determine basically, uh, the amount of calories that your body uses.

    19. JR

      So let's say a strength and conditioning workout, what if they're gonna do weights and sprints and things along those lines?

    20. GL

      Right. So what we'll do is w- everything is actually like a, a formula. Everything's, everything is break- broken down mathematically. So we'll take, uh, their met, and we'll, we'll go on a scale of one to 10, and we multiply that by the actual amount of weight that that individual has, like, uh, kilograms. So we'll say, um, their intensity is a 10. Let's say they have a hard workout. Intensity of 10, we multiply that by the amount of kilograms, um, that that individual has, uh, I, I believe, and then, um, looking at the formula, we basically divide that by, uh, 200 and multiply that by the duration of the actual workout, and that'll give us the amount of actual calories that that individual is actually using for that workout. So every workout is gonna be different. So if you're, if you're, if you're doing, um, um, like ... Uh, what h- what's the word I'm looking for? Like, training in terms of, like, um, guard passing and stuff like that, it's gonna be a lot different than if you're sparring, right?

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. GL

      So you get a lot of people, they actually, they, they feed themselves the same way if they're, if they're doing form versus actually training, like sparring, you know? They, they do the same thing, "Oh, I'm gonna take two, you know, two scoops of protein, I'm gonna take this, this, and this." You have to, you have to actually f- feed the body differently every single, ev- every single workout, right? So we'll take that formula, we find out, okay, this is the amount of calories that this individual burns during this period of time, and then we actually break it down even more. Because if you jog and you burn 1,000 calories, right? And if you lift and burn 1,000 calories, well, it's same amount of calories, but you have to refuel the body differently. Because if you jog, your, your body's using a lot more fat. If you're, if you're lifting, your body's using a lot more carbohydrates. Again, it goes to giving the body what it needs when it needs it. So we'll look at it and be like, okay, well, if it's a level 10, and then we'll ... Literally, and we have the formulas for it, so, uh, a 10 would be, uh, 80/20. So you, you find out the amount of calories this individual is burning and you-

  6. 15:39 – 20:18

    Carbohydrate transporters, post-workout recovery, and why caffeine can help glycogen

    1. JR

      80/20 meaning?

    2. GL

      80% carbohydrates, 20%, uh-

    3. JR

      Proteins?

    4. GL

      Proteins, right. And as you-

    5. JR

      Well, what kind of carbohydrates do you mostly funk- focus on?

    6. GL

      So your body has, um, some called, uh, you know, you have receptors in the body, right?And you know, people think that, like, "Well, you know, if I, if I, if I need carbohydrates, my body's just gonna ingest them," and it doesn't work like that. Um, your body can process about one c- uh, gram of carbohydrate per minute, right? But if you are able to actually excess more, or, um, actually, um, use more than one, um, transporter the- um, at a time, you can actually go to about two th- uh, 2.3 grams per minute. And, uh, you have, you have Glut1, Glut2, Glut3, Glut4, and then you got the sGlut1, sGlut2. Each one of these has a different thing that actually activates them, right? Like, an sGlut2 is, is a sodium-dependent transporter, right? If you, if you use a sodium-dependent transporter, and Glut4 is, is a insulin-dependent transporter. Uh, Glut1 is, uh, I believe, um ... Oh, no, I'm sorry. Glut5 is a fructose. Uh, it's activated by fructose, right? So if you use more than one of these transporters at a time, you activate these transporters, they're literally ... You're able to actually synthesize carbohydrates twice as fast.

    7. JR

      So you're doing different types of carbohydrates and mixing them together?

    8. GL

      100%

    9. JR

      Like, what would be an example of, like, a Glut1?

    10. GL

      Uh, uh, sGlut1 is a sodium-dependent transporter, so you gotta make it sodium-dependent, you gotta make sure that you add sodium, right? Glut4 is the insulin-dependent transporter. So what, what's gonna help, uh, insulin be transported? You, you need something that's high glycemic. So something that's dextrose, right? Like, dextrose.

    11. JR

      So what, but what is, like, a food that's a Glut1?

    12. GL

      Um, well, salt. Break it down. Salt. And then, uh, Glut, uh, Glut5, or Glut5 would be, uh, fructose, which would be fruit, right? So we, you know, I'll f- I'll, uh, break down fruit for him. And then dextrose is, is basically, like, any type of sugar that you have, you know what I mean? So, um, that's basically ... We, we incorporate sugar, fructose, and salt. You put those together. Now the funny thing is, is when you incorporate caffeine, uh, y- it's been shown that caffeine post-workout, you'll, you'll see four times the amount of glycogen in the muscle, uh, post-workout if you take the, uh, the caffeine.

    13. JR

      Really?

    14. GL

      Yeah. (laughs)

    15. JR

      Do you take it in the form of caffeine pills, or do you take coffee? Like, what do you do?

    16. GL

      Oh, I'll, I'll incorporate it with ...... like, uh, the-- the post-workout. You know, like, uh, with the-

    17. JR

      Like, a coffee shake?

    18. GL

      ... with the sponsor. Yeah. I-- it's a anhydrous, like a-- it's a-- it's-- it's stronger type. Sometimes I'll see, like, okay, if he's-- if he's obviously going to bed later, it'll be more of a green tea-type, uh, caffeine. But yeah, I mean, the funny thing is, is like, it's shown that caffeine post-workout, four times the amount of carbohydrates are in the muscle, and I have yet to find out why. (laughs)

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. GL

      I, I, I... you know, I talked to, um, uh, Andy, uh, Gal-

    21. JR

      Galpin?

    22. GL

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. GL

      Dude, I love that guy. Love him.

    25. JR

      He's amazing, yeah.

    26. GL

      I'm like, "Hey, man, I just..." I'm like, "Bro, I wanna get you in a room for, like, an hour and just talk to you." Um, but, uh, I was like... and I asked him that, and he's like, "Honestly, I don't know either." And I was like, "Shit." I was like, "Fuck."

    27. JR

      (laughs)

    28. GL

      You know, uh, you know what I mean? So, uh... but, you know, the thing is, I don't know why, but-

    29. JR

      But it works.

    30. GL

      ... the one thing I do know, yes.

  7. 20:18 – 22:44

    Rehydration without IVs: USADA era benefits and electrolyte balance

    1. JR

      ... is rehydrating with head trauma. How much more difficult is your job now with, uh, USADA in place where they can't use IVs?

    2. GL

      I love not having the IV, man.

    3. JR

      Really?

    4. GL

      Swear to God, yeah.

    5. JR

      Why?

    6. GL

      Um, you know, if you look at every study out there, like, uh, the, uh, oral rehydration is actually better for the body. Everybody's... it's so funny. Nowadays, everybody's like, "Oh, you know, like, organic, you know, earth-grown nutrients. You gotta have this, you gotta have this." And then when it comes to, like, cutting weight, it's like, now let's jam a needle into their freaking body and let's shove 9,000 milligrams of sodium chloride in their freaking veins, and that's gotta be good, you know? If- if, uh... and I'll shoot, if they were fighting the same day, 100% be like, yeah, you need an IV. But they have over 30 hours to rehydrate. The body, you know, the body can do that on its own, and it's gonna be a lot na- a lot more natural in terms of absorbing nutrients and giving it what it needs. Here's the thing. When, uh, a lot of these guys cut, I-- I break it down, like, this is the amount, exact amount of sodium that your body needs. A lot of-- a lot of people, they were taking in, like, two, uh, two, uh, bags of IVs, right? One bag is 9,000 milligrams of sodium chloride. They would take in eight-- like, two bags, that's 18,000 milligrams of sodium chloride. And they wouldn't take any- any, uh, potassium. Your body is- is- is- it's gotta have a... it- it's a balance-

    7. JR

      A balance, yeah.

    8. GL

      ... of everything. Yeah, yeah. Je- like, o- you know, like omega-6, like, you look at fats, you know, like, you... there's so many studies out there, "Oh, omega-6 is bad." You know, like, causes all this inflammation and stuff. Like, yeah, omega-6 does cause inflammation. It... you're... but your body needs it. Your- your hair needs it, your organs need it, but it needs a- a- a good amount of omega-3 to kinda clear that out. Same thing, sodium needs potassium. You know, like when you look at a muscle pump, you're like, sodium goes into the muscle, potassium comes out. Well, how does potassium get back in? Well, it- it needs magnesium. Magnesium, man, if you don't have magnesium... you have to have this- this balance. And it's funny because these guys would, you know, back in the day, they would take an IV, and then, and then what'd they have? They'd have soup, and they're like, "Ah, I need..." and they'd take more salt. They would never basically look at the amount of potassium. Now these guys are like, "Hey, George, what do I- what do I take?" I'm like, "Okay, eat this, eat this, eat this." And I think it's a lot healthier for them.

    9. JR

      So, they're getting more sophisticated with it. Uh, Johnny Hendricks recently said that one of the reasons why he retired is because of USADA and they couldn't- they wouldn't let him use the IVs anymore.

    10. GL

      Right.

    11. JR

      He said it made a big difference with him.

  8. 22:44 – 30:05

    Industry critique and responsibility: ‘gym bro’ coaching, loyalty, and caring about outcomes

    1. GL

      Yeah. There's, um... there's a lot of people that are in this job, Joe, that they have no business being in this job, doing what I do. Like, I mean, I... just got on the street. I've talked to them. Um-

    2. JR

      How many peop- how many people like you are there out there? I know there's Dolche.

    3. GL

      (sighs) Yeah, and there's, um...

    4. JR

      Who else?

    5. GL

      Like, uh, there's Lutrition and, um, I think Perfecting Athletes, things like that. Um, I've- I've talked to a couple people. You know, like, I'll... you know, at the end of the day, man, honestly, I always tell people, I'm like, you know, I told my wife this. I'm like, "You know what game is, babe?" And she's like, "What?" I'm like, "It's your ability to pretend like you give a fuck, right?"

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. GL

      And I'm like, and I'm like, "You know what real game is? Is actually giving a fuck." You know what I'm saying?

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. GL

      Like, there's a lot of people that they're like, "Oh, I wanna help you out, I wanna help you out." You know what I'm saying? Like that. And people are actually like, "Oh, cool." But then they realize, and that's why they work with us, 'cause they- we actually give a fuck, like, we care, you know?

    10. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    11. GL

      And you sit there and it's like... um, we talked... you know, like, we're- we- we were working with, um, uh, Greg Jackson. Well, it was- it was, uh, it was Johnny Bones, and, um, it was a fight or whatever, and- and- and I'm like, I'm like, "Hey, guys, you know, like, obviously we're working with DC, and DC, he's got an exclusivity with us." I'm like, "How's he doing with the rehydration?" Like, "Oh, he- he's using your rehydration." I'm like, "Dude, the rehydration I gave you guys was before the IV ban. Like, this... it's not the same." And they're like, "Oh, you think you can talk to his nutritionist?" So, I went to talk to him, and- and I was like, you know, I was like, "Um, what's the osmolality of the- the water that you're giving him?" And, you know, like, he looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead. Like, he was like, "What the fuck?" And I'm like, "Well..."... I'm like, "How much fucking salt are you giving him?" He's like, "Whoa! I'm not giving him salt. I haven't given him salt this entire, you know, fucking training camp. Why would I give him salt?" (sighs) And I, I wasn't gonna sit down and give him a fucking whole lecture on nutrition about, like-

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. GL

      ... how the fucking body works or anything like that. But, um, I was like... I, I just, I went to Johnny Bones and I said, "Bro, fucking start eating fucking salt. Like, it... your life depends on it, brother." Because, I mean, basically the muscle contraction that, like, you have, a lot of it depends on the amount of sodium that your body has. You know? The amount of, uh, glycogen absorption, muscle contraction, neurons in the body, it's all dependent on fucking salt. And when you've got guys that are like, "Wow, you know, fucking no salt," (sighs) I think a lot of guys are in this, in this game because they want their name on the fucking highlights and shit like that.

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. GL

      You'll, you'll, you'll see me like... (laughs)

    16. JR

      Well, it's real bizarre that this is such a gigantic sport.

    17. GL

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      I mean, it is an enormous sport, but in terms of even the way people train, it's... I mean, no one really... there's not a consensus on what's the... what's the correct way to do it. And then when it to comes to nutrition, there's not a consensus.

    19. GL

      Right.

    20. JR

      And then there's the rehydration and dehydration factor that doesn't exist in any other sport other than boxing.

    21. GL

      Right.

    22. JR

      I mean, this is the onl-... and, and I think it's more extreme in MMA than it is even in boxing-

    23. GL

      Fuck yeah.

    24. JR

      ... for the most part, right?

    25. GL

      Oh, for sure.

    26. JR

      It's just... it's such a crazy thing that you've got these super high-level athletes that are dealing with gym bros. I mean, there's a lot of-

    27. GL

      Bro.

    28. JR

      Like, real high-level athletes, and I've talked to their trainers and I'm like, "What did you just say?"

    29. GL

      (laughs)

    30. JR

      Like, "You're a gym bro. How'd you get with this guy? This guy's a fucking world-class fighter and he's got some schmo from fucking Gold's Gym..." No offense, Gold's Gym.

  9. 30:05 – 1:04:59

    Extreme case studies: Yoel Romero, Cyborg, James Vick—and the limits of cutting

    1. JR

      Do you work with Yoel Romero?

    2. GL

      We did, yes.

    3. JR

      That dude... I look at that guy and I go, "How the fuck-"

    4. GL

      Bro.

    5. JR

      "... is that 185-pound man?"

    6. GL

      You wanna... you wanna hear... you wanna hear some stats with us, man?

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. GL

      So people, people are like, "Oh, you know, like, I don't have 100%...... you know, like, rate, Joe. And I take pride. I-

    9. JR

      Of, uh, weight- Making weight?

    10. GL

      Yeah. I take- I take pride in that shit. You know why? 'Cause I've taken motherfuckers that I know they're not gonna make weight. I know that bitch ain't gonna make weight.

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. GL

      You know what I'm saying? But, dude, I'm like, "Hey, man, my-" You know, I- I wanna either, A, be there to be like, "Bitches, he's not gonna make it." And I cut that shit. I cut it.

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. GL

      I've- I've got coaches that are like, "He's being a pussy." I'm like, "Dude-"

    15. JR

      "He's gonna die."

    16. GL

      "... he literally has fucking cut .2 goddamn pounds in the last 30 minutes. He's got 10 pounds to go, he ain't gonna make it."

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. GL

      "His kidneys are gonna be f- Oh, he's being a pussy."

    19. JR

      Ah.

    20. GL

      I'm, yeah, fuck, you know, "Fuck you guys, man." I cut it off, you know what I'm saying?

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. GL

      Um, with Yoel... This is between us, right?

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. GL

      No one's listening.

    25. JR

      Nobody's listening.

    26. GL

      So, no one's listening. So, um, in Australia he showed up at 198 and he missed by two and a half pounds, right? With us he showed up 217 pounds-

    27. JR

      (gasps)

    28. GL

      ... and missed by .2. And the only reason that he fucking missed by that .2 is 'cause the fucking athletic commission-

    29. JR

      Yeah, the commission in New York pulled him off.

    30. GL

      Fucking... Bro, they fucking came in there, like, I- I was like, "Hey," I'm, bro, I'm like, "Cool down, you know, take your time." I- I gave him 45 minutes to like fucking just chill. We put him in the bath, the- the- the commission came in there and they're like, uh, "How you feeling?" He's like, "I feel good to go." And they were like, you know, the guy (laughs) he literally said, he said, you know, "Unfortunately that's what all heroes say, but unfortunately all heroes are dead." And I'm like, "First off, that's the dumbest thing I've ever fucking heard in my life." Like, there's a lot of fucking heroes that are still fucking goddamn alive.

  10. 1:04:59 – 1:10:18

    Conor’s camp evolution: benefits of Lockhart’s integration, athlete aging, and ‘fun’ training breaks

    1. JR

      And, uh, how much of a difference has it made, John? Uh, it's, it's huge, because until then, I was winging it, you know. Uh, the, the weight cutting part of the sport is cloaks and daggers, and you're trying... You're, you're overhearing conversations, and you're googling. Mm-hmm.

    2. GL

      So, you know, I was... It w- it was pretty much guesswork on, on, on, on my end. You know, I got him to 145, um, nearly 20 times on my own. But when we brought George in to... And it wasn't even just about making weight. What I, what I noticed with him was that every session was, um, productive. There was no sessions where I was... He didn't have to pop any of those shots or soreness or... You know, that, that, that would just be a normal part. Whereas when we brought in George, um, that, that was a lot... Uh, each session was a lot more effective. So it wasn't just about making the weight, it was making the training camp, um, where he was improving the whole way through it.

    3. JR

      He got down to 145 a couple times, and he, he looked like, like a monster.

    4. GL

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      He looked like a zombie.

    6. GL

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      It was terrifying.

    8. GL

      Yeah, yeah.

    9. JR

      I mean, that, that had to play a big part in your decision to no longer have him fight at that weight class, right?

    10. GL

      Yeah, yeah. I mean, I... We'd already gone up to 155. His, his final fight before going to the UFC was, was at 155, and I was kind of like, "Oh, thank God," you know. "This is, this is suiting him better." Because when he joined, he was a sort of a scrawny 16, 17-year-old, but then he started becoming a man. So getting down there was getting scarier and scarier. And then his last fight outside UFC, I thought he looked fantastic. It was a handy weight cut. Um, and he just looked... I have to say, he looked like a tank. Now, the offer came in. A couple of weeks later, Sean emailed me and said, uh, "We're offering you a 145 fight in, uh, in April." And of course, I told Conor, and he's screaming and running around. We didn't care what weight class. If he had of said 125, we would have, we would have done it.

Episode duration: 2:02:05

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode ARAT9HQY6e4

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome