JRE MMA Show #48 with Henry Cejudo & Eric Albarracin

1. 0:00 – 0:37

   Halloween kickoff: Cejudo, coach Eric “Captain America,” and the immediate post-title glow

   1. HCHenry Cejudo0:00

      (Russian)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Three-

   3. HCHenry Cejudo0:03

      (Spanish) .

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Boom, and we're live. Henry "motherfucking" Cejudo-

   5. HCHenry Cejudo0:11

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      ... world champ, and sir, introduce yourself to everybody, Captain America.

   7. EAEric Albarracin0:16

      That's right, Captain Erick Albarracin.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Uh, Henry's coach. You, uh, what, what, what do you do with him specifically?

   9. EAEric Albarracin0:23

      Well, I've been with him since 2004, and recently became his coach right before the first Demetrious Johnson fight, and I'm his head coach for MMA.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       And you're in disguise in case some, uh, other athletes try to swipe you.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo0:35

       (laughs)

   12. EAEric Albarracin0:35

       And it's Halloween.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Bring you over.

   14. EAEric Albarracin0:36

       Happy Halloween, everybody.

   15. HCHenry Cejudo0:37

       (laughs)

2. 0:37 – 2:57

   Beating “the greatest”: what the DJ win means for legacy and GOAT debates

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:37

      Happy Halloween, folks. So, uh, first of all, man, congratulations on your victory. Um, it, what does it feel like?

   2. HCHenry Cejudo0:45

      Oh, man, it's, uh, it, uh, it feels good. It feels good.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:48

      Try to keep this, like, uh, fist away from your face.

   4. HCHenry Cejudo0:50

      Yeah, uh, it feels good because it's, um, God, it's, I, I think as a competitor, you, you live for these moments. You live for, you, you live for these fulfillments, you know?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:59

      Yeah.

   6. HCHenry Cejudo1:00

      And I think somebody like... And then I told people since the beginning, it wasn't so much, you know, the UFC belt, but it was because it was, it, I made it about Demetrious, and it was about Demetrious, you know? 'Cause he's, he's-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:10

      Well, I mean, he is widely considered to be the best pound-for-pound fighter ever, and you're the first guy not only to beat him, but the first guy who, not just to beat him, but, I mean, you beat him in, like, 11 years, but the first guy to win an Olympic gold medal in wrestling and a UFC championship. I mean, those are two gigantic accomplishments.

   8. HCHenry Cejudo1:30

      Yeah, no, for sure. It's almost like, uh, God, it's, it's, I beat the greatest of, to me, the greatest of all time, and then on top of that, I beat, you know, I, I can, I can make the run for, you know, who's the greatest combat athlete of all time.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:42

      Yeah.

   10. HCHenry Cejudo1:43

       Like, it's, uh, I'm a two-sport world champion. (laughs) I'm just like-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       Yeah.

   12. HCHenry Cejudo1:46

       ... "Damn, that's crazy."

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       I mean, you're absolutely in the running now. I mean, if, if he's not the greatest of all time, I think he is, but, you know, the argument is that he didn't face people as good as Jon Jones faced, and then Fedor is the other, uh, Fedor and Anderson Silva are the other people that are in consideration for the greatest of all time. I mean, it's, uh, it's just a subjective argument. I mean, who, who knows who's right? But obviously, you beat, without a doubt, one of the best ever.

   14. HCHenry Cejudo2:14

       Yeah, yeah. And, and, and like I would, I would tell people, there's, there's a bit of, uh, of admiration that I had for Demetrious Johnson. Like, I was, uh, it was, it was like, you know, you're fighting the dude that's, that's, that almost seems untouchable, that you couldn't... Uh, uh, uh, a guy that makes you question yourself, like, "Whoa, this is, this is, this, this guy is that good."

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:34

       Well, what's crazy is you beat him after he had stopped you just, how long, how long, was it two years?

   16. HCHenry Cejudo2:39

       Uh, about t- close to about two and a half years ago now. Yeah, about, uh, it was like, uh, I think two years and, like, four months.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       That's-

   18. EAEric Albarracin2:47

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:47

       ... that's an amazing turnaround.

   20. HCHenry Cejudo2:48

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       Between getting stopped in the first round, and then coming back and, and beating him, and then beating him in the championship rounds is really where you pulled it off.

3. 2:57 – 5:27

   From first-round stoppage to redemption: rebuilding the team and chasing answers worldwide

   1. HCHenry Cejudo2:57

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, uh, uh, and, and I, absolutely. I, I had studied Demetrious Johnson. Like, as soon as I lost to him the first time, what I pretty much did is, I got, I got rid of a lot of people, including my, my MMA head coach. I just, my whole philosophy was if I can't be the best, then there's something wrong. You know, emotionally, physically, everything. I was just invested.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      Mm-hmm.

   3. HCHenry Cejudo3:19

      And when I lost, I'm just like, "Man, I, I, I need a, I'm looking for a better leader." You know? And, and that's kind of what I did. I ended up, you know, letting go a lot of my corner men, and I started traveling the world. Uh, went out to Singapore, went out to, uh, to Thailand, went out to, uh, to the Netherlands, spent months and months at a time, uh, uh, out in Brazil. Like, I, uh, I was on a quest. It was like the... Or, uh, I, I kind of remind myself literally, like, Ash Ketchum from Pokemon.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:47

      (laughs)

   5. HCHenry Cejudo3:47

      Like, I was just on a venture due to-

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:48

      I have no idea who that is, but...

   7. HCHenry Cejudo3:50

      (laughs)

   8. EAEric Albarracin3:50

      (laughs)

   9. HCHenry Cejudo3:50

      It's-

   10. EAEric Albarracin3:50

       Vision Quest.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:51

       Vision Quest.

   12. HCHenry Cejudo3:52

       It was a, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:52

       The Matthew Modine movie.

   14. HCHenry Cejudo3:54

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:55

       That's every wrestler.

   16. HCHenry Cejudo3:56

       Louder you swing. Louder you swing.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:56

       Every wrestler has to watch that movie.

   18. HCHenry Cejudo3:58

       And that's, and, and, and, and it be- and I'm, like I said, it became an obsession. I, I, I knew that if anybody could do it, it'd be, it'd be Henry Cejudo. Like, I really did. And e- e- even after the first time, Joe, when he beat me, I still, when they asked me, it was like, "Henry, you know?" Like, I, I would, I was like, "Guys, I don't know, but I still know that I could beat him." Even being knocked out, like, 2 minutes and 36 seconds, like, I still knew in my heart at UFC 1, I said at their press conference, I says, "I know I'm still the one to beat him." (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:26

       What was it about him that made you think that you could beat him? What was it about you specifically in relation to him and his skill set?

   20. HCHenry Cejudo4:35

       It was, uh, um, I, I, I, if you, if you're asking me what the difference was-

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       Yeah, well, what was it that made you think, even after he stopped you in the first round?

   22. HCHenry Cejudo4:44

       Oh, God, uh, I think it was more so just believing in my, in my abilities. I think me just believing more, "Okay, Henry, you need time." Like, I was only doing MMA for three years when I fought him the first time.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       Yeah, a lot of people don't know that.

   24. HCHenry Cejudo4:57

       Yeah, three years.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:58

       They assume, see you fighting for the title, not once but twice, that you've probably been doing MMA for a long-ass time. But when you fought him for the first time, it's a very, that's a very short amount of time to be fighting in MMA.

   26. HCHenry Cejudo5:10

       Es- especially against a caliber athlete like Demetrious.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:13

       What year did you win, uh, the Olympics?

   28. HCHenry Cejudo5:15

       In '08.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:16

       Yeah.

   30. HCHenry Cejudo5:16

       2008.
4. 5:27 – 8:32

   Olympic tunnel vision and burnout: falling out of love with wrestling after gold

   1. HCHenry Cejudo5:27

      Um, I did, I did. What happened was, uh, once I won the Olympics, I almost kind of, I fell out of love with the sport. I fell, I fell out of love with wrestling. I remember being at the Olympics and being like, "Man, I just, I, I don't know if I have it in me no more."

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:41

      Just 'cause you were burnt out?

   3. HCHenry Cejudo5:42

      I was, yeah, actually, my whole childhood was gone because of the sport, you know? Like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:46

      Take that crazy mask off, brother. What are you doing?

   5. HCHenry Cejudo5:48

      (laughs)

   6. EAEric Albarracin5:49

      (laughs)

   7. HCHenry Cejudo5:49

      Anyway, I've been waiting for you to say that. (laughs) Put that on there.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:56

      We'll do it in stages. (laughs)

   9. HCHenry Cejudo5:58

      Uh... (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:00

       So you, you, you fell out of love with it?

   11. HCHenry Cejudo6:03

       I fell out of love with it and-

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:04

       But just, but just, but just because your whole life had been dedicated to wrestling?

   13. HCHenry Cejudo6:07

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:07

       And you'd finally achieved the greatest of great goals.

   15. HCHenry Cejudo6:10

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:10

       Olympic gold medal is just the top of the mountain.

   17. HCHenry Cejudo6:12

       No, but check this out, Joe, and it was like, in, in, in the year 2007, I...Um, man, I went through the worst year ever. Like, I was ready to become a world champion, and, and I went out to the world championships in 2007 and, and I didn't even score a point, like in the first round. Like, I, I got put out by, by Iran. And, uh, for some reason that whole year, man, I was just going through the freaking struggles, like left and right. You're talking about just the adversity. I couldn't win a tournament to save my life.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:38

       What was it?

   19. HCHenry Cejudo6:40

       Um, I don't know. I don't know. I, I, I truly, truly don't know. I think I was, uh ... I think I probably began kind of falling out of love with it. And I remember there was, to me, there was only two tournaments that I really wanted to win, and that was, that was the Olympic trials and eventually the Olympic games. And, and somehow like ... 'Cause I'm correlating this with the, with the fight with Demetrious Johnson. And, uh, I remember, you know, just, just almost being in, in tears, like, "I just don't know if, uh, if this is for me." And, uh, but I just stuck with it. I stuck with it. I ended up winning the Olympic trials. I ended up going to the, you know, the Olympic games and ended up pretty much falling behind in every single match, uh, that I was wrestling in. So these, these are kind of the adversities that I was going through, like, leading up to become an Olympic champion.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       You know, it's interesting, when you were fighting, um, Demetrious for the second time, Daniel Cormier s- said something very interesting. He said, "Most guys ..." He goes, "I would never give a chance." You, you get stopped by DJ, and then a couple years later you're fighting him again. Like, he's, he's gonna have your number. He's gonna be better in the rematch. And he goes, "But Henry Cejudo's a different kind of athlete." He ... And he talked about you competing and then coming back a year later-

   21. HCHenry Cejudo7:53

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:53

       ... and, and being ... He goes, "He was many times better." He goes, "The, the amount of improvement that he got in just one year was just unbelievable."

   23. HCHenry Cejudo8:03

       Yeah, and I think, you know, I guess you can owe that to genetics, and I, I think you can talk a lot about desire too, just having the, the-

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:08

       Genetics only get you so far.

   25. HCHenry Cejudo8:10

       Yeah, but, but, but it's also-

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:11

       I mean, everybody at the Olympics has, has g- great genetics.

   27. HCHenry Cejudo8:15

       Y- for sure, but it's almost, it almost becomes a, a, a, a mentality, um, because of, uh, philosophies. Like, you almost start doing things almost like to, to not feel the h- to not em- to not feel the, the pain of losing.

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:28

       Hmm.

   29. HCHenry Cejudo8:29

       Like that's a motivator. To not feel the pain of losing.

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:32

       Right.

5. 8:32 – 32:28

   Composure under crisis: the peroneal nerve kick, fighting hurt, and “not wanting to feel losing again”

   1. HCHenry Cejudo8:32

      And I remember when Demetrious Johnson hit me, hit me in the, hit me in the leg and I literally, I, I don't think people knew how severe it was. Like, I literally sprained like a, a, a, a, a, a severe low ankle sprain those first 30 seconds.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:43

      In the second fight, yeah.

   3. HCHenry Cejudo8:45

      So I fought Demetrious Johnson like that. But it was, it was, to me, the motivator was like, "Man, I don't wanna feel that pain of losing no more."

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:52

      Mm-hmm.

   5. HCHenry Cejudo8:52

      I hate it, man. I hate feeling second place. I hate feeling kind of, kind of somebody's looking over me, someone's an- almost like a manhood challenge. (laughs) And I hate that.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:01

      Was it a low leg kick that, uh, that made your, your ankle go? Like, what was it?

   7. HCHenry Cejudo9:06

      Yeah, it was, uh, there's a nerve that you have behind the, like, like the bone. It's, uh, per- uh, I think it's the-

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:11

      Peroneal.

   9. HCHenry Cejudo9:12

      ... perineal. Per- perip- perineal nerve.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:14

       Peroneal nerve. P-E-R.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo9:16

       Yeah. And, uh, I got hit there, so it, it put my foot to sleep.

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:20

       Just like when Michael Chandler, it happened to him in Bellator, same thing?

   13. HCHenry Cejudo9:23

       Exactly.

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:23

       Where you're stepping on it and it's just not working.

   15. HCHenry Cejudo9:26

       And the pro- th- th- and the, and, and, and the reason, uh, the, the reason why everybody kind of got scared ... I mean, 'cause I wa- I was hurt, but I remember before the fight, I remem- I, I remember I saw all my cornermen, like kind of ... Before I fought Demetrious, I remember I saw them all, uh, I saw them all nervous. And I remem- I remember grabbing my cornermen and st- putting them right in front of me, and I remember telling them. I was like, "Hey, guys. I've been here before." Like, "I was ranked 31st in the world." I be- "I, I know I, I, I became a world champion in wrestling." Like, "Guys, like, yeah, I want you guys to have a little faith in me. But I'm gonna ask you guys one thing, and, uh, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you guys, I'm gonna ask you guys to be composed." I said, "The key to winning this fight is for me to be composed." And then pretty much, there's ... Six hours later, they, uh ... Right before, you know, we walk on, they start playing my song, I look back at my corner, and I said, uh, and I said, "Guys," I said, "The key to this fight, remember," I said, "it'd be composure." So when Demetrious Johnson kicked me, like, I, I, I believed in my own philosophy. I went back to, "All right, my composure." Because I was hurt, yo. Like, he could've stopped me that, that, that first round. I was forced to switch s- southpaw, which I never fight in southpaw. You know? So now I'm kind of, uh, uh, well, me and Demetrious Johnson are playing poker. My whole philosophy and the key to this victory was the composure part. And, uh, when he hit me, I, uh, I, I really did, I was like, "Oh my God, not again, dude. Not again."

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:48

       Mm-hmm.

   17. HCHenry Cejudo10:48

       "I'm not gonna last two minutes and 36 seconds. Not again." But, uh, again, the motivator was not to feel the pain to lose again.

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:55

       Right.

   19. HCHenry Cejudo10:56

       Like, it wasn't desire to win. I was like, "I just don't wanna feel that pain anymore."

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:00

       Yeah.

   21. HCHenry Cejudo11:00

       As a competitor, as somebody that, that, that, that's on a mission, dude, that sacrificed his life.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:05

       Explain to someone who's never experienced that before. What is that pain like? Like, you train for how many weeks, and then you fight Mighty Mouse for the title, you get stopped in the first round. What is that pain like?

   23. HCHenry Cejudo11:16

       Oh, man. It's ... Uh, I think every fighter has a spirit. Like, what is a spirit? The spirit is your, your spirit is your dream. The spirit is that, that, you know, you've watched somebody become a world champion, you wanna be, "Hey, I wanna be just like that guy." Your confidence, your self-esteem, that's th- that's your spirit and it's ... You also, we also have a spirit of a warrior that's, like, the, the manhood side of it. And what happens when I got stopped with Demetrious Johnson, it's ... I almost felt like ... And I've never g- gone through this, not even in wrestling, in my life. Like, I was ... Like, my spirit was shot, and I had to kind of pick up my pieces and kind of start he- healing myself, like mentally. And I feel like ... A- a- and if you see ... And if you look at it, Joe, with somebody like Roy Jones Jr., he got knocked out one time and it became a domino effect.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:00

       Yeah.

   25. HCHenry Cejudo12:01

       Because he never, he never picked up those pieces. He never started healing that spirit.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:05

       Well, he got knocked down again real bad right afterwards by Glen Johnson too, remember? There's two-

   27. HCHenry Cejudo12:09

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:09

       ... two knockouts in a row.

   29. HCHenry Cejudo12:11

       Southpaw.

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:11

       Mm-hmm.... you know?
6. 32:28 – 36:46

   The dark art of weight cutting: extreme cuts, wrestler mentality, and smarter nutrition planning

   1. JRJoe Rogan32:28

      Yeah. Tha- that's the fight. Now, do you, do you like fighting at 35? 'Cause I know you fought at 35 for a while when you were struggling to make flyweight.

   2. HCHenry Cejudo32:36

      (clears throat)

   3. JRJoe Rogan32:37

      You had, you had some issues early on-

   4. HCHenry Cejudo32:39

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan32:39

      ... in your career where you really didn't make the weight very well.

   6. HCHenry Cejudo32:42

      Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was, uh... God, I was, I was getting older, I think, in my career. I think the reason why I started having weight problems was because of, uh, I was just getting older and I was doing some crazy stuff. Like I used to cut, like my-

   7. JRJoe Rogan32:57

      Keep this microphone up.

   8. HCHenry Cejudo32:57

      Like I used to, I used to, uh, I used to, to cut about 16 pounds, like in, in, uh, two, two-hour sessions.

   9. JRJoe Rogan33:06

      What?

   10. HCHenry Cejudo33:06

       Yeah, as a, as, as a flyweight or supposed to be flyweight.

   11. JRJoe Rogan33:10

       Why were you doing that?

   12. HCHenry Cejudo33:11

       (laughs) Because I, I felt like, because I'm a wrestler. I think, uh, uh, my f- my whole philosophy at first when I, when I got into MMA, um, was kinda like... I, I... In wrestling, we, we would never get to see recovery. I know it's stupid. It's stupid as heck. But we wouldn't, we would, we would never get to recovery that a fighter gets. So to, to me, it was like, "Dude, I, I can, I can stretch this as, uh, as long as I can and, and, and I can suffer the day of wins, but I'm gonna recover within 24, 20, 28 hours sometimes." You know? So to me, I, I was looking at it a very... uh, uh, just at an odd way.

   13. JRJoe Rogan33:45

       So did you just had-

   14. HCHenry Cejudo33:45

       And it finally started catching up to me.

   15. JRJoe Rogan33:47

       So you just had confidence in your body's ability to bounce back, even though you were putting it through an extraordinary amount of stress and losing massive amounts of weight really quickly?

   16. HCHenry Cejudo33:56

       Yes.

   17. JRJoe Rogan33:56

       But you just felt like your body could handle it.

   18. HCHenry Cejudo33:58

       Yes.

   19. JRJoe Rogan33:58

       You're tough.

   20. HCHenry Cejudo33:59

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan33:59

       You're used to it.

   22. HCHenry Cejudo34:01

       Yeah, it was, it was the whole... 'cause, you know, in wrestling, we would make weight like every, uh, every, every week sometimes. We would wrestle so much that we're, we're used to kinda like that whole, that whole struggle side of things. And then, okay, we wrestle again, we do it again.

   23. JRJoe Rogan34:14

       What kind of weight cut were you talking about when you were wrestling? How much were you cutting?

   24. HCHenry Cejudo34:17

       Um, uh, uh, um... and I was a lot more disciplined then, but I was probably doing about 12 pounds, but I had no fat. Like at that, at that time, I was eating just as healthy and as clean as possible, because I w- I would make weight every, every, every, you know, every three weeks I had a tournament.

   25. JRJoe Rogan34:33

       You know, I had George Lockhart on, and he was explaining to me that a lot of people think that when you cut weight that, you know, like you're cutting out fat. He's like, "You're not cutting out fat. You're cutting out water, and it actually helps to, to have more muscle." Because muscle is-

   26. HCHenry Cejudo34:48

       Water.

   27. JRJoe Rogan34:48

       ... mostly water.

   28. HCHenry Cejudo34:49

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan34:49

       So you, you're just draining out your muscles, then replenishing them, you know? When he was explaining that to me, I was like, "Ah, I never really thought about it that way."

   30. HCHenry Cejudo34:56

       Yeah.
7. 36:46 – 43:18

   Going “all-in on science”: mapping camp, recovery tech, and bringing in NeuroForce1

   1. HCHenry Cejudo36:46

      I did, I did. Actually, I ended up, uh, you know, connecting with this, uh, c- connecting with this company called, uh, Neuro Force One, you know, a science-based company. And I actually wanted to bring them in to kinda, to kinda talk about it, Joe. Because this right here, man, just changed my wh- my whole philosophy with talking about the whole weight co- how, how, the whole wei- uh, weight, 'cause how I struggle to, to how my t- whole training has changed because of, because of, because of science.

   2. JRJoe Rogan37:09

      Hmm.

   3. HCHenry Cejudo37:10

      And a, a science that's very, uh, that (laughs) a science that's very, uh, I guess, complex, you could say. You gotta have, like, the right people, man, like, dictating your schedule.

   4. JRJoe Rogan37:20

      So, when you set up a training camp like this, how far in advance do you sit down and work out all the details?

   5. HCHenry Cejudo37:28

      It's almost like the, the morning that we wake up is what we know we're gonna do.

   6. JRJoe Rogan37:32

      Right. But how, like, say if you know you have a fight in July, when would you start preparing for that and when do you sit down and map everything out?

   7. HCHenry Cejudo37:39

      Well, we try to map things out maybe about three months in advance, kinda like a preparation in, uh, to leading to the camp. And that's kinda like the phase that we're on now. Like, now we're on, like, you know, if I fight, if it is that I fight in January, it's almost like our, our schedule is like, there, there's, there's, there's a pre-test to the big test.

   8. JRJoe Rogan37:56

      So tomorrow's November 1st, so if you were getting ready for a fight in January, you would start ramping up somewhere around now?

   9. HCHenry Cejudo38:03

      Yeah, but it would, it would, it would be more of a ... yeah. It, it would, I think the first, the first month leading up to the next eight weeks would be, a lot of it would be, uh, technical and tactical, just working on those p- particular areas that we're b- that we believe we're gonna be in.

   10. JRJoe Rogan38:18

       So you're not doing anything crazy, strength and conditioning-wise, you're not trying to break your body down?

   11. HCHenry Cejudo38:23

       No, no. Because it's all, it's all a learning phase at that point, you know? Working the body, get- preparing the body with a lot of body motion, movements and things of that matter. Kinda just bringing more circulation to certain parts of my body than, rather than, you know, uh, somebody picking up a kettlebell and throwing it and, and, and crazy things like that. Like, like, i- i- i- it's all, it's all sports, uh, specific.

   12. JRJoe Rogan38:44

       Right, right.

   13. EAEric Albarracin38:45

       Range of motion.

   14. JRJoe Rogan38:47

       So how do you organize this? Like, how d- what- who are y- what is the team of people that you use, and, like, who's responsible for what?

   15. HCHenry Cejudo38:54

       Yeah, well, well like I said, I think, uh-

   16. JRJoe Rogan38:55

       'Cause you got a whole crew in the back people don't know.

   17. HCHenry Cejudo38:58

       (laughs) The m- the men-

   18. JRJoe Rogan38:59

       Captain America's with you, but you g- you get the rest of the Avengers are all waiting in the waiting room.

   19. HCHenry Cejudo39:03

       Yeah, the, the, the-

   20. EAEric Albarracin39:04

       You know, we fir- I was gonna say, we first found him when, uh, he hurt his hand and he had to rehab it. Hold on, let me get this off.

   21. HCHenry Cejudo39:10

       Oh, see, it's going in layers. It's going in layers, Joe.

   22. EAEric Albarracin39:13

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan39:13

       I told you, layers.

   24. EAEric Albarracin39:13

       So he had hurt his hand before, uh, um, he- his first fight with Sergio Pettis, and I was trying to find any way for him to still compete, and we found somebody using this machine which led us to actually Neuro Force One and Kareem and all these guys. And we tried to force it for him to get back in time, and y- I have video of him just screaming in pain, trying to get there. And we thought, we stayed off it for a couple weeks, and then the w- the day of, uh, the face-off, he went to cut weight and he said his wrist kept slipping out and we had to pull him from the fight. He went to see the doctor, doc- doctor said it's n- no way, shouldn't fight. So then-

   25. JRJoe Rogan39:52

       What was the injury?

   26. EAEric Albarracin39:53

       Uh, I think it was a b- it ended up being something with-

   27. HCHenry Cejudo39:57

       Henrik?

   28. EAEric Albarracin39:57

       ... a sprained ligament.

   29. HCHenry Cejudo39:58

       Yeah, I think it was, uh, I had sprained, like, uh, one of my ligaments in my hand, so there was just, there was nothing I could do. Like, I would, I would, I would open the cap bottle for the, for, uh, you know, to kinda, to brush my teeth and, uh, like, it, when it hurt to that point I'm just like, "Man, I, I, I can't do anything." So then I, th- you know, I ended up, uh, they ended up at- Eric here ended up connecting me with, with Neuro Force and found out that they had, like, these certain machines that help you heal faster.

   30. JRJoe Rogan40:26

       And what do the machines do?
8. 43:18 – 47:31

   NeuroForce1 enters: daily readiness testing, CNS metrics, and data-driven training decisions

   1. JRJoe Rogan43:18

      Yep, yep. Hey, man. That helps. How are you, sir? Welcome.

   2. KLKevin Longoria43:21

      Good. How're you doing, Joe?

   3. JRJoe Rogan43:22

      Push up, tell everybody who you are.

   4. KLKevin Longoria43:23

      I mean, I'm Kevin Longoria. I am the Chief Science Officer for NeuroForce1.

   5. JRJoe Rogan43:27

      There you go.

   6. KLKevin Longoria43:27

      And then I'm a neurophysiologist as well, so-

   7. JRJoe Rogan43:30

      Keep this about, like, a fist from your face.

   8. KLKevin Longoria43:31

      Okay.

   9. JRJoe Rogan43:32

      So, um, tell us what your role was in camp and, uh, what- what you did to- to help him get ready.

   10. KLKevin Longoria43:39

       Cool. Yeah, so, uh, NeuroForce1 is a neuroscience-based training company and a medical-grade diagnostic testing company as well.

   11. JRJoe Rogan43:46

       Where you guys out of?

   12. KLKevin Longoria43:47

       Uh, we're out of Scottsdale, Arizona. So, what we really, uh, focus on, which a lotta companies aren't talking about, is the role of the gut and the mind in conjunction with your physical training. So, essentially what we do is we start off with a really comprehensive baseline assessment. We wanna run them through everything. So, the traditional functional threshold powers, autonomic nervous system, DC brain potentials. And really what you wanna do is you wanna put somebody on a- on a normal curve.

   13. JRJoe Rogan44:08

       What is a DC brain potential?

   14. KLKevin Longoria44:10

       DC brain potential is a- a- (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan44:11

       It's like, you wanna be like Daniel Cormier.

   16. KLKevin Longoria44:13

       Yeah, sounds like. (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan44:13

       You gotta get that DC brain potential. (laughs)

   18. KLKevin Longoria44:15

       We all wanna be a little bit like DC, but, uh, basically it's a- an objective measurement of your central nervous system. So you can actually- your central nervous system is basically the data aggregator, if you will, so it has to take information from your metabolic systems, your autonomics, kinda coordinate things like neuromuscular and the me- metabolic efficiency. That's kind of the- the data center, if you will. So this is a measurement of- of potential, basically how much energy you have in the- in the central nervous system to go coordinate neuromuscular and metabolic efficiencies, which is really what we focus on. So-

   19. JRJoe Rogan44:43

       And so is this on, like, a chart? Are you getting it- like, i- is there a number reading that you're getting? Like, what is it that-

   20. KLKevin Longoria44:50

       Correct. Specifically for DCs, it's going to be in millivolts, and then you just compare that to normative ranges. But most importantly what it is is trending data over time. This is an assessment that we would do on Henry every single morning. It's a home test kit. We really believe in just collecting as much data as possible and trending data. That way when you see a ch- a change, essentially you get predictability in terms of, you know, today's a no-go day because central nervous system is diminished. We're just gonna be going through the motions. We're not gonna make physiological adaptations, uh, and your inflammation is really high, no-go because we're not gonna go risk injury when we can't make adaptations. So this is a measurement we would do every single morning where we can look at autonomic nervous system, which is basically things like recovery, sympathetic, parasympathetic balance, DC brain potentials, and metabolic systems.

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:32

       And what is- what is measuring all these things? Is there a device? Is it a...

   22. KLKevin Longoria45:36

       Yeah, yeah. This is a pretty amazing device. We actually, uh, got it from the UFC Performance Institute, you know, shout out to those guys, Clint, Bo, and Roman over there. Um, set us up with this technology. It's a- basically a chest strap that does heart rate variability, so time and frequency domain analysis, and then it does DC brain potentials. So a little sticker right here on your forehead, uh, basically four minutes you just kinda relax and we collect pretty amazing data and it breaks it down into four different categories, what's called windows of trainability. So it says today we should focus on strength and power or skill acquisition based on metabolic readiness, autonomic readiness, and DC brain potentials. So what is our body primed to go do today? 'Cause if you're not primed, your n- nervous system doesn't have the energy, you're just gonna be going through the motions.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:18

       So you are sort of there to dictate when it's gonna be a hard day, when it's gonna be an easy day?

   24. KLKevin Longoria46:23

       Correct, yeah. And that's something as you- I'm sure you guys know, in wrestling it's- it's always hard, always let's go. Um, so this was, uh, a little bit of an issue in the camp at the very beginning, if you could imagine. Henry wakes up, it's a sparring day, we're maybe even supposed to do two a days. He wakes up feeling really good and nervous system is outta whack. It's like, "Sorry, man, I know you feel good, but you're not, you know, not le-"

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:43

       Wow.

   26. KLKevin Longoria46:44

       Yeah, so we would go a no-go that day and, you know, a- as you could see i- it all worked out in the long run, so-

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:49

       Well, it worked out fantastic, but was that weird for you to feel good and then to be told you gotta chill out?

   28. HCHenry Cejudo46:55

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was, uh... and it almost takes a while to kinda adapt, but I started- as I started recognizing, like, my body change and how I felt in sparring and how d- and how kinda I- I just felt recovered, I was like, "God, this is- this is crazy." Like, I- I didn't run at all this whole camp.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       So do you get a baseline off of this? Eric, you gotta stop moving around. You're freaking me out.

   30. HCHenry Cejudo47:16

       (laughs)
9. 47:31 – 54:44

   Programming the body like a system: nutrient timing, VO2 data, and customized supplementation

   1. KLKevin Longoria47:31

      Correct, yeah. So we do a comprehensive baseline assessment including the omega wave as well as, you know, six or eight hours of other testing, everything that you could think of under the sun. Then we put together, uh, basically columns of this is what you're suboptimal at, this is what you're average at, this is what you're really damn good at. So basically what we wanna do is exploit your functional strengths, it's what you're good at, but then we also want to focus on your functional deficiencies. In a sport like MMA, we also sometimes have the advantage of looking at your opponent and making certain assumptions in terms of their weaknesses, their strengths. Going against somebody like DJ, you don't- you don't really have that advantage. So what we really needed to focus on is what Henry's really good at, his ground game. You look, you know, we're doing nervous system assessments while he's on the ground. His sparring partners, their stress systems are going like crazy, he's calming down 'cause this guy likes to be on the floor rolling around. So we pinpoint these little strategic def- uh, def- uh, strengths and deficiencies and then we target all of his, uh, nutrition supplementation. A big thing that we focus on is nutrient timing, something that's not really talked about as well. But when you're talking about gut health and, you know, recovery, managing the- the hormones associated with exercise, you gotta be getting in the right nutrients in your- your energy, anabolic, and growth phases. So-

   2. JRJoe Rogan48:39

      So for nutrient timing, you're talking about, like, when you're actually eating and what you're eating? So you're planning that out as well?

   3. KLKevin Longoria48:44

      100%, yes. We put together a nutrition program and because training varies every morning, we're deciding what we're gonna do for the day. It's completely dynamic. So we're kinda reinventing the game of periodization and programming because you can't give somebody an eight-week plan. You have to check every single day. This is how you stay very dynamic and you avoid plateaus and just the issues, you know, 'cause it's always gonna lead to suboptimal performance if you're programming out. So every day we adjust, you know, we're doing this intensity of training, we did a VO2 max assessment so we know exactly how much glycogen you're burning at various, uh, levels of intensity. We do heart rate tracking during your training. All right, this is exactly what you have to replace following. So I'm standing on the sidelines, you know, after every practice mixing up-... custom supplements for him as well. So this is something-

   4. JRJoe Rogan49:27

      Like, what, what kind of stuff?

   5. KLKevin Longoria49:28

      Um, you know, we have our own supplement line right now. Um, frankly, not because the world needed another supplement line. It's, it's not really what our goal was. Um, in, in sports like this, you have to be so careful what you put in these guys' body. Uh, so we just went the route of going GMP certified, WADA-USADA approved on everything we do. Um, eventually, we wanna, you know, try and work with a badass company 'cause we're not... We don't wanna be in the supplement game. For us, it was just quality control. Um, so, uh, being a nervous system based company, obviously we're doing things like Omega-3 DHA's, BCAA's, you know, to, to maintain, put on a little bit of muscle. Um, we do a lot of... Big one that I believe in is, is the generation you can, the super starch. Very good without a big glycemic, you know, big insulin response, but very good at replenishing your glycogen stores following to minimize cortisol and inflammatory responses and things like that. So, um, every day it's a little bit different, but, uh, yeah, we ended up going with our own line. And one of the biggest things that we, we never really talk about in the fight as well is the, the role that gut health plays. So, that's something Henry does year round, regardless of when we're fighting is, take our line which is called Freedom Cleanse Restore. And this is world renown, um, you know, u- utilized by university researchers all, all around the world right now. And basically it's all just about restoring good gut bacteria, prebiotics, probiotics, and lymphatic cleansing. And this is gonna be something, um, that really played a big role in his weight cut as well. I- it's kind of a missing link that athletes aren't talking about. But good gut health is gonna help with serotonin production, so recovery, relaxation, mood. You know, production of brain-derived neurotrophic factor, so our, our nervous system can make these adaptations and learn new skills and things along these lines. So this is something, you know, in my opinion, a, a big reason why, uh, you know, he had the issue with DJ the first time around. Henry, Henry will tell a story like, he, he had gut inflammation so bad that people would say, "Good luck," before the fight, tap his gut and, and that hurt him. You know, that's not normal and that all goes back to the issues associated with weight cutting, as we were talking about a little bit.

   6. JRJoe Rogan51:18

      Mm-hmm.

   7. KLKevin Longoria51:19

      But, uh, getting that gut health right, no inflammation, and, and that goes a long way.

   8. JRJoe Rogan51:23

      Now, h- how long have you guys been in business for?

   9. KLKevin Longoria51:25

      Uh, we've only been in business for about eight months. We're, we're still very new. Um, been working with Henry a little bit longer than that. Um, but yeah, thi- this company's just getting off the ground. We, we kind of rebranded a few months ago. Just opened our first facility as well out in Scottsdale.

   10. JRJoe Rogan51:37

       What, what is your background in?

   11. KLKevin Longoria51:39

       Um, I'm a, I'm a physiologist. I op- opened the first mobile medical grade diagnostic testing company in Arizona. So basically, I, I would have these diagnostics, and largely it was trying to, trying to fix the healthcare system a little bit, you know. Uh, we, we want individualized solutions. We want data-driven outcomes, right? You want quantifiable progress, so people wanna feel good about what they're doing. But maybe a doctor can't afford a... This big ass metabolic cart or they don't know how to use it. So what I did is, I purchased this equipment, hired technicians, and we would bring it mobile. You know, technology's getting smaller and more mobile, so this was my idea of, of how I would go make my little dent in the healthcare system. Um, you know, there were issues with scalability in terms of finding good technicians. But the goal is just to go out there and provide data-driven solutions, right? We, we live in a world of, of subjectivity, guesswork, a very punishment-oriented fitness system where it sucks to start working out. You, you typically gain weight if you're doing the right stuff 'cause you're getting hydrated. You go get injured, you know. The goal is to redefine how we assess people so that we can find these little, little tweaks for positive reinforcement, and that's, uh, goes a long way with healthcare as well as fitness.

   12. JRJoe Rogan52:42

       So are you guys mostly working with civilians? Are you working with pro athletes or...

   13. KLKevin Longoria52:47

       Uh, right now we're in the research and development phase so we're really only working with guys like, uh, Henry, Victoria, Anthony, uh, a very badass wrestler we're working with right now as well. Um, just some amazing people, uh, largely for research and development. We, we trade them the training for the data. You know, he, he-

   14. JRJoe Rogan53:01

       And how'd you guys get together?

   15. KLKevin Longoria53:03

       Uh, we've been working with Henry about a year. He... I... He knew our CEO, Karim Amin, uh, a great guy. We've kind of all circle around Karim. He brought us all together. Um, but uh, you know, he came in probably about eight months ago, for a little bit before the first camp and we met, talked, and, you know, Henry was straight up. He's like, "Man, y- you know your stuff but y- you don't know MMA." So I took that, you know, personally. We, you know, spent a lot of time together. I had to learn the sport. I'm a physiologist not an MMA physiologist. So we really took the time to get to know each other, you know, hang out a lot now. I, I got to go to his house and wake him up every day for eight weeks, so that was-

   16. JRJoe Rogan53:37

       (laughs)

   17. KLKevin Longoria53:37

       ... we got to know each other pretty well. You know, I'd do his meal preps and stuff.

   18. JRJoe Rogan53:39

       Too, too much. (laughs)

   19. KLKevin Longoria53:41

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan53:41

       Yeah. That's a fantastic combination though, a guy like you who knows so much about the body and recovery and a, a real super high level Olympic gold medalist athlete. I mean, when you get that combination, I mean, that is, that's really a dream for a guy like you and for a guy like you, like, for both of you guys to come together like this-

   21. KLKevin Longoria54:00

       Yeah, man.

   22. JRJoe Rogan54:01

       ... I understand why you wanted to bring him on as well. (laughs)

   23. KLKevin Longoria54:04

       Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, I, I-

   24. JRJoe Rogan54:05

       If you understand half, if you understand half of it... (laughs)

   25. KLKevin Longoria54:08

       I don't.

   26. JRJoe Rogan54:09

       (laughs)

   27. KLKevin Longoria54:09

       I can pretend. I'll go, "Yeah, yeah. The DC Mind thing."

   28. JRJoe Rogan54:12

       Mm-hmm.

   29. KLKevin Longoria54:12

       That, yeah-

   30. JRJoe Rogan54:12

       (laughs)
10. 54:44 – 1:10:51

    Strength without ‘meathead’ lifting: vector-based work, isometrics, velocity training, and wearables

    1. KLKevin Longoria54:44

       And then, I mean, we, we did some amazing stuff. If you looked at the body composition changes that we did in seven weeks, it wasn't even a full eight-week camp, um, he put on 4.2 pounds of skeletal muscle mass, like good mass, which as a physiologist, I would call bullshit on if I didn't see it with my own two eyes. Um, but-

    2. JRJoe Rogan55:00

       That's pretty incredible.

    3. KLKevin Longoria55:01

       Yeah, incredible. And, and, you know, Henry will tell you, he maybe picked up weights like three or four times. We don't really do traditional strength training because, you know, a lot of people just... It, it's called vector based training so a lot of people do things like squats and dead lifts. This is an axial plane, like, we don't live in this up and down plane, so we break it down by vector. What angles does he need to exert and absorb force in very effectively? And very rarely does that come down to actually utilizing weights.... we do things like positional isometrics and eccentric training and things along these lines. Number one, they integrate with the nervous system very effectively.

    4. JRJoe Rogan55:33

       Isometrics?

    5. KLKevin Longoria55:34

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan55:34

       Like-

    7. KLKevin Longoria55:34

       Positional isometrics.

    8. JRJoe Rogan55:35

       Like, what kind of, uh, like planks?

    9. KLKevin Longoria55:37

       Um, I mean, that's, that's kind of a low-level of it. Yeah. Largely what you would wanna do is like a biomechanical assessment and look at overactive and underactive muscles. Then you put them in very specific positions and you leverage what's called recip- reciprocal inhibition. So basically, in, uh, the most basic term, like, when I'm flexing my bicep, my tricep is relaxing. So you'd hold certain positions so that you wanna turn on certain muscles and kinda turn off other ones. It's kind of a, a high level of, of PNF stretching, proprioreceptive neuromuscular facilitation. So this is what would be done in, like, a PT office.

    10. JRJoe Rogan56:07

        So, uh, in, in, like, uh, for wrestling, like, what kind of exercises would you do that would inco- incorporate those methods?

    11. KLKevin Longoria56:15

        I mean, wrestling is, you know, largely a torsional sport.

    12. JRJoe Rogan56:17

        Mm-hmm.

    13. KLKevin Longoria56:18

        So when it comes to wrestling, we do things like, like Kaiser, like pneumatic compressions and things like that. So instead of using weights, we use air pressure, basically. It's very smooth, very low risk of injury, and they live in this, um, this torsional plane. So you do a lot of transverse plane and we do a lot of velocity-based training as well. Actually, really interesting, uh, study that was published recently, uh, they had a lot of guys working out for a full year. Some only did velocity, never actually picked up a weight. The other ones did traditional strength training. The people who did velocity-based training, no, no actual weight training, got stronger with less muscular hypertrophy. I mean, they didn't get as big, but they were stronger at the end of the day. So when you look at something like wrestling and MMA where you gotta make a low weight, but you wanna be as strong as possible, you know, velocity-based training is kinda the way of the future. So this is kinda our general gym concept that we're building right now is, is, you know, the gym of the future may not need weights. You know, we're gonna be next door to these CrossFit gyms where they're throwin' all these weights over their head, gettin' injured. We're next door, empty gym and people are getting stronger. That's, that's kinda the, the gym of, of the future the way we see it.

    14. JRJoe Rogan57:18

        How would you define velocity-based training?

    15. KLKevin Longoria57:21

        Um, so basically what you wanna do is it's kinda like the new one rep max. We all know one rep maxes aren't the safest thing to perform, right? Um, so you would, uh, there's different assessments. Actually, what I'm wearing here on my wrist right now, this is the wearable tech of the future. This is something we're testing right now. This does velocity. So I could stand in any position. I could do a, a push press or I could do a punch, and this is gonna measure my velocity. Your max velocity at no weight would be your one rep max velocity, basically. And then you're going and you're doing your training. So max velocity every single rep. When you hit 20% damping, so say I was at 10 meters per second. As soon as I hit eight meters, eight meters per second, I stop. So this is kinda what they call fatigue. So you stop that. So instead of doing, you know, you're gonna do eight reps, you do as many reps as you can until you reach a certain damping of velocity.

    16. JRJoe Rogan58:04

        And what are you doing them with? Like-

    17. KLKevin Longoria58:06

        Um, largely things like the Kaiser, the functional trainer-

    18. JRJoe Rogan58:09

        Mm-hmm.

    19. KLKevin Longoria58:09

        ... if you're familiar with that.

    20. JRJoe Rogan58:10

        So you're just blasting?

    21. KLKevin Longoria58:11

        Band work. Yeah, things like that. I mean, very rarely we'll throw, like, you know, Indian clubs and things like that in there as well. So it all depends on the sport and what we're focusing on that day, you know, metabolic readiness, things along those lines. But it's all just about training in the right vectors and, and being able to not only put out force, but absorb force as well, which nobody really talks about. Now, if you look at largely other professional sports, all these injuries are happening in the deceleration phase. So when people are trying to slow down, this is absorbing force. This is kinda similar to some of the, the pieces that just aren't trained in MMA as well. You guys gotta be able to absorb force just like you put it out.

    22. JRJoe Rogan58:45

        Now, when you me- this wrist thing that you're wearing, it measures velocity. So how is it doing that?

    23. KLKevin Longoria58:51

        Um, so basically I have one here and then I have one on my shoe as well. So it can do... By using two sensors, it can measure relative velocity. So it's reading one relative to the other. This is also doing, uh, everything that a, a badass traditional wearable would do as well. So it's doing my heart rate, heart rate variability, which is actually clinical grade. Everything we do has gotta be clinical grade 'cause what's the point of collecting data if it's shit, right?

    24. JRJoe Rogan59:12

        Right.

    25. KLKevin Longoria59:12

        Um, and then it does pulse oximetry, so I'm looking at my oxygen saturation. Uh, the next version is gonna be able to do hydration, all kinds of badass stuff. What's really cool about it as well is it can measure form. Any exercise that you're doing, we can compare you essentially to an ideal form. And because we have two, you don't even have to tell it you're doing a power clean. It can read your motions and things like that, and it gives you, like, a, a consistency number as well. So we... One thing we really talk about is, is not building muscle on top of dysfunction. We have to get your biomechanical patterns right first, and then we start putting muscle on. If you just put muscle on top of dysfunction, you're faci- facilitating further dysfunction.

    26. JRJoe Rogan59:48

        Would you have to wear one of those on each hand?

    27. KLKevin Longoria59:50

        Um, I mean, I'd say the, the f- ideally for someone like a fighter, you obviously are throwing with both hands. Um, I, I think it would be ideal. Um, it's, it's really difficult to time sync multiple devices to be on the same timeline.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:00:02

        Yeah.

    29. KLKevin Longoria1:00:02

        So that's something we're working with this company, a- amazing company actually outta here, outta LA, to develop this thing right now. So that, I would say that would be the goal. It's, it's not something that's gonna be applicable to the, the average guy, though, as well. This- we're, we're trying to bring this type of training to everybody.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:00:15

        Would it be possible instead of, uh, time syncing it, you have a left and a right computer, like two different computers that are reading data, both on- one off the left, one off the right, so you don't have to coordinate them, you just look at the, the various data?

Episode duration: 1:49:27