JRE MMA Show #49 with Miriam Nakamoto

Joe Rogan 0:00 Okay, here we go. Four, three, two, boom. And we're live. Hello, Miriam.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:09 Hi, Joe.

Joe Rogan 0:10 Good to see you.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:10 Grab this, uh, mic and keep it like a fist from your face. That's a good reference point.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:16 Is this good?

Joe Rogan 0:17 Perfect.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:17 It's k- okay.

Joe Rogan 0:18 Perfect.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:19 Do I just set it up like that?

Joe Rogan 0:20 Yeah. Good to see you.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:21 (laughs) So good to see you.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Goo- I'm sad that you can't sell these snacks everywhere because I know you're, you're working on making these mass-produced, but they're fucking fantastic.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:29 Uh-huh. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:29 They're very good.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:30 When did you first give me some of these? Like five years ago or some shit?

Miriam Nakamoto 0:33 2014?

Joe Rogan 0:34 Something like that?

Miriam Nakamoto 0:35 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:37 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:38 Yeah. Yeah, my knee, uh, blew out. I just had surgery, and I needed something to do, so I-

Joe Rogan 0:43 That was knee number one?

Miriam Nakamoto 0:45 The second one.

Joe Rogan 0:46 That was the second one?

Miriam Nakamoto 0:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:47 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:48 And that was ... And I've had two more since.

Joe Rogan 0:50 (coughs) Mmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:50 So I've had four total.

Joe Rogan 0:53 The life of a world champion Muay Thai kickboxer-

Miriam Nakamoto 0:55 (sighs) No, it-

Joe Rogan 0:55 ... is not an easy one.

Miriam Nakamoto 0:56 No, it actually started when I started at, started at grappling.

Joe Rogan 0:59 That's when you started blowing your knee out?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01 Yeah. Yeah. No, it was, I was, um ... Muay Thai was fine. I got cracked ribs. I got cut. I got maybe concussions.

Joe Rogan 1:07 Maybe concussions?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08 Really bad. Like broke my elbow on somebody's head. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:11 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:11 Yeah, but not ... no, um, knee stuff. It was the MMA. Jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 1:17 Yeah, wrestling and jujitsu are rough on the knees.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:20 I think this motion, not awesome on the cartilage.

Joe Rogan 1:23 Mmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:23 It's like a weird motion.

Joe Rogan 1:25 You mean, um, like hip stuff? Like, like, when you're-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:28 Knees. When, when you do like that with your-

Joe Rogan 1:29 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30 So like, uh, on your back, like working a guard-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:33 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 1:33 ... that kind of thing?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:34 That's what you think did it?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:34 Yeah, yeah. Well, I just ... Yeah, and 20 years of use on this body.

Joe Rogan 1:39 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40 Well, it does put ... It put w- it puts weight in weird ways-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:44 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:44 ... on your knees too.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:45 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:45 If someone's trying to pass your guard, and they're moving your ankles around-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:48 You have to swivel.

Joe Rogan 1:49 ... stuff. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:49 You have to swivel with their weight-

Joe Rogan 1:51 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:51 ... and their violence-

Joe Rogan 1:52 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:53 ... uh, directed at you, so yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55 I saw you getting a bunch of fluid on Instagram shot into there. What is that all about?

Miriam Nakamoto 2:00 I think it was like Orthovisc.

Joe Rogan 2:02 What is that?

Miriam Nakamoto 2:02 Did not help.

Joe Rogan 2:03 No?

Miriam Nakamoto 2:03 But that was a waste of money. That was, yeah, that was-

Joe Rogan 2:06 It was like a f- like a gooey fluid.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:08 Yeah, it was like, like padding.

Joe Rogan 2:09 Oh, is that what the idea is?

Miriam Nakamoto 2:10 It's like padding. But what was, what was really nice was I got a straight shot of ibuprofen in there. That felt amazing.

Joe Rogan 2:16 (inhales deeply)

Miriam Nakamoto 2:16 Yeah, like three months worth of ibuprofen. Just shot it right in there.

Joe Rogan 2:18 Really?

Miriam Nakamoto 2:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:19 That shit is so bad for you though.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:21 Is it? Or is it-

Joe Rogan 2:21 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:21 ... it felt really good?

Joe Rogan 2:23 Yeah, I tell-

Miriam Nakamoto 2:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:23 ... everybody stay the fuck away from ibuprofen.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:25 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:26 Yeah. Dr. Rhonda Patrick was the first t- person that alerted me to it, the increased rees of, r- uh, risk of strokes and heart attack and, and then, um-

Miriam Nakamoto 2:34 Mmm.

Joe Rogan 2:34 ... my friend Cam Hanes, who's an ultra-marathon runner-

Miriam Nakamoto 2:37 God damn it.

Joe Rogan 2:37 He, um, he was taking 800 milligrams a day every day.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:41 Okay. For how long?

Joe Rogan 2:42 Forever.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:43 That's a lot.

Joe Rogan 2:43 It's a lot.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:44 That's different.

Joe Rogan 2:45 It is different.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:45 I just got one super shot.

Joe Rogan 2:47 Well, he was runn-

Miriam Nakamoto 2:48 Bam.

Joe Rogan 2:48 He basically runs-

Miriam Nakamoto 2:49 I mean-

Joe Rogan 2:49 ... almost a marathon a day.

Miriam Nakamoto 2:50 Yeah, that's crazy.

Joe Rogan 2:51 Yeah, because he runs these 240-mile races. So he was having these serious pains. Like, he's like, "I, I need it to get going." So I told him about all the heart attack stuff and the stroke stuff. He's like, "Fuck." So he gets off of it. All of his inflammation relaxes and calms down. Turns out what was going on was the ibuprofen severely upsets your gut bacteria.

Miriam Nakamoto 3:14 Eh.

Joe Rogan 3:14 And so when that happens, it causes systemic inflammation, which you then treat-

Miriam Nakamoto 3:19 Ah.

Joe Rogan 3:19 ... with ibuprofen.

Miriam Nakamoto 3:20 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 3:21 So he takes out the ibuprofen. All the, the gut problems go away. All the inflammation goes away. All his hip pains, knee pains.

Miriam Nakamoto 3:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:29 All that shit went away, which is crazy.

Miriam Nakamoto 3:32 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:33 I think ibuprofen is great if you do it every ... just rarely. You know?

Miriam Nakamoto 3:38 So-

Joe Rogan 3:39 Something's going on, you need-

Miriam Nakamoto 3:40 What I noticed when he shot my knee, that into my knee, I, I immed- like within the next week, you know, over the course of a couple of days, I noticed that I had greater range of motion. So what it made me realize was like, oh, I had a little in- inflammation in there.

Joe Rogan 3:54 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 3:54 'Cause I just kept thinking, I was like, am ... is it, is it the tissue tight or-

Joe Rogan 3:57 Is this homeboy shooting ... What did, what is he shooting in here, in this video?

Miriam Nakamoto 4:00 Oh, Orthovisc.

Joe Rogan 4:01 This is that stuff that didn't work.

Miriam Nakamoto 4:02 With no gloves on.

Joe Rogan 4:03 Yeah. Wait, what's that about?

Miriam Nakamoto 4:04 Everybody's all (laughs) he's commenting.

Joe Rogan 4:05 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 4:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:06 Aren't you supposed to have gloves on? What kind of fucking doctor is this?

Miriam Nakamoto 4:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:09 Where were you? In a garage somewhere?

Miriam Nakamoto 4:11 In a free clinic. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:12 (laughs) So what d- Oh, ho, ho, ho!

Miriam Nakamoto 4:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:16 Yo, look at you. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 4:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:21 So what is that Orthovisc stuff supposed to do?

Miriam Nakamoto 4:24 It's supposed to like, like give it padding.

Joe Rogan 4:27 Mmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 4:28 Yeah, it didn't really help. It was a waste of money and time.

Joe Rogan 4:31 How much does that shit cost?

Miriam Nakamoto 4:32 I think it was like 200 or 220 a shot.

Joe Rogan 4:34 Whoa.

Miriam Nakamoto 4:34 And I just got three of them.

Joe Rogan 4:36 Maybe it's for like regular people. Maybe it would work-

Miriam Nakamoto 4:38 Yeah, maybe.

Joe Rogan 4:39 ... for regular people, not for people that throw in a lot of kicks. You know?

Miriam Nakamoto 4:42 Ah, k- the kicks don't bother me.

Joe Rogan 4:44 Yeah, I bet it isn't the kicks, right? I, I think-

Miriam Nakamoto 4:46 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 4:46 I think about that like, it is grappling, right? That is the thing-

Miriam Nakamoto 4:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:49 ... that puts the most wear on your-

Miriam Nakamoto 4:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:51 If you talk ... Like if you meet like old kickboxers, I mean some of them have brain damage for sure.

Miriam Nakamoto 4:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:56 But their bodies aren't as broken down as old grapplers.

Miriam Nakamoto 4:59 No. They might be hobbling a little bit.

Joe Rogan 5:00 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:00 You know, their toes might kind of ... You've seen Rob? Rob Kaman. Remember him?

Joe Rogan 5:04 Oh yeah. Rob's were all fucked up.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:04 Yeah, his toes are like ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:06 Rob's foot look, looked like he jumped into a pool that was empty-

Miriam Nakamoto 5:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:10 ... and landed on his big toe. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 5:13 (laughs) Yeah. Uh-huh. All of them.

Joe Rogan 5:15 But when you're a guy like Rob who's been kicking shins and-

Miriam Nakamoto 5:18 Ah, he's badass.

Joe Rogan 5:19 ... elbows and-

Miriam Nakamoto 5:20 He is so badass.

Joe Rogan 5:20 ... for so long, he's amazing.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:22 I, I ... It sucks. It hurts my heart that, uh, he missed the, um, the, the curve.

Joe Rogan 5:28 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:28 He missed the, you know?

Joe Rogan 5:29 The fame wave.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:30 Yeah, yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:31 'Cause he's brilliant.

Joe Rogan 5:32 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:32 He's fucking brilliant.

Joe Rogan 5:34 He really is. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:35 And he helped a lot of fighters too. I mean, he was a big-

Miriam Nakamoto 5:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:38 ... big, um, part of Br- Brendan Vera's early success.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:43 (coughs) And, uh, that's when I was training with him.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:45 Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:45 Back in the old Bomb Squad days.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:46 Yep.

Joe Rogan 5:47 And, you know, he was working with a lot of kickboxers and people were starting to catch on-

Miriam Nakamoto 5:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:51 ... to his whole system.

Miriam Nakamoto 5:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:52 But-

Miriam Nakamoto 5:52 I couldn't even ... When I ... I got to work with him. Um, and I couldn't ... At the time, I was so, um-... green as a fighter, or just as a martial artist, that I couldn't comprehend what he was trying to show me and tell me.

Joe Rogan 6:05 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:05 And he's like, "No. You're gonna have programmed counters to the counters."

Joe Rogan 6:08 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:09 And he was, like, trying to dial me in, program me in, and I couldn't keep up with him.

Joe Rogan 6:13 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:13 You know, at the time, I was just too... I wasn't at that level.

Joe Rogan 6:16 Well, you know what the difference is? Like, some people just use athleticism and timing-

Miriam Nakamoto 6:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:21 ... and they just tr- they just try to be creative.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:24 What he does is he has a full system-

Miriam Nakamoto 6:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:28 ... of, like, what to do in varying positions and what to do-

Miriam Nakamoto 6:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:31 ... depending upon your opponent's reaction.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:33 But then on top of that, there's also creativity.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:36 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:36 (coughs) Which is-

Miriam Nakamoto 6:38 And savagery.

Joe Rogan 6:39 Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's a savage motherfucker.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:40 He's super... He's... Yeah. He's very savage.

Joe Rogan 6:42 Oh, his highlight reel. Pull up Rob Kaman's highlight reel.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:46 I mean, he, he knocked out-

Miriam Nakamoto 6:47 And that pornstache.

Joe Rogan 6:48 (laughs) Back in the dizzay, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 6:49 Yeah. (laughs) The pornstache.

Joe Rogan 6:50 That's, that's then, then Rob Kaman.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:53 But it's really incredible when you think about, like, how many great fighters came out of Holland.

Miriam Nakamoto 6:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:58 And, and kickboxers in particular.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:00 It just-

Miriam Nakamoto 7:01 Mm-hmm. Yep.

Joe Rogan 7:02 ... one small country. And here it is right here. Get to see some of it. Look at Rob Kaman-

Miriam Nakamoto 7:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:08 ... pulling up on a motorcycle.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:10 With that mustache.

Joe Rogan 7:10 Sexy bitch. (coughs) So stoic too.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:14 He looks so angry.

Joe Rogan 7:14 Well, back in the day, he was.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:16 Which is really interesting if you know him now 'cause he's so friendly and-

Miriam Nakamoto 7:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:19 ... huggy. And-

Miriam Nakamoto 7:20 He's like a big fluffy dog.

Joe Rogan 7:22 Yeah. He's, he's a fascinating guy.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:25 Cuddly.

Joe Rogan 7:25 He really is. But his, his knowledge of, of kickboxing is just so fucking tremendous.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:31 I love how he set down those punches like a boxer.

Joe Rogan 7:34 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:34 And, like, shifting his weight. 'Cause there's... I don't see a lot of kickboxers that do that well.

Joe Rogan 7:42 Yeah, well, he-

Miriam Nakamoto 7:42 They're still here.

Joe Rogan 7:43 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:44 And then they rotate, rotate, but they don't... He's, like, really kinda getting in here, you know-

Joe Rogan 7:47 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:47 ... like a boxer would.

Joe Rogan 7:48 Do you think that's because when you do dig down you're, you're sort of compromising your ability to throw kicks for a brief moment?

Miriam Nakamoto 7:55 Um.

Joe Rogan 7:55 Because you're really digging in. But he's knowing, he knows when to do it too.

Miriam Nakamoto 7:59 Yeah. It's when-

Joe Rogan 7:59 It's his fight IQ, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 8:01 Yeah. It's knowing when to do it, and it's also... (sighs) I, I... It's my pet peeve with Muay Thai. Look at him. (laughs) My pet peeve with Muay Thai is when they throw punches, they kinda come up.

Joe Rogan 8:13 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 8:14 It's, like, very triumphant-looking, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 8:15 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 8:16 It's like uh, uh, and it's like, that doesn't make any fucking sense.

Joe Rogan 8:18 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 8:18 'Cause you won't punch with power. Not the same power.

Joe Rogan 8:21 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 8:21 Um, and you can't get out of the way. You're committed-

Joe Rogan 8:23 Why do you think they do that?

Miriam Nakamoto 8:25 ... to do this. I don't think... I just think they weren't taught well.

Joe Rogan 8:27 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 8:27 I wasn't.

Joe Rogan 8:28 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 8:28 I just recently started ch- changing my style, you know. But, um, when you kick, you're up. You kinda come up into the kick, you know?

Joe Rogan 8:35 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 8:36 You, like, raise up, and then they s- try to punch in that way. And I really feel like just with mixed martial arts, when you are doing wrestling, you have to, like, e- be respectful that you're doing MMA fight, but kinda embody that.

Joe Rogan 8:49 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 8:50 You know, that wrestling technique. When you're punching, you gotta embody that punching technique. When you're kicking, you gotta embody that kicking technique. And same with jujitsu. Like, you wouldn't stand as a Muay Thai fighter if you're doing a wrestling move-

Joe Rogan 9:01 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:02 ... in an MMA fight.

Joe Rogan 9:02 Of course.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:03 And-

Joe Rogan 9:03 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:03 ... I think with Muay Thai fighters, they don't understand that. It's like when you're punching, you need to, like, kinda sit down and rotate. You gotta ho-tate, as they say.

Joe Rogan 9:10 Ho-tate?

Miriam Nakamoto 9:11 Hotation.

Joe Rogan 9:12 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:12 You gotta have good ho-tation. And then when they kick, they gotta come up. When they, their knee, they gotta come up.

Joe Rogan 9:17 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:17 You know, it's different. And they don't make that distinction, and then they don't produce... They don't optimize on their body and the power that they could produce.

Joe Rogan 9:24 That's always been a big issue with, with MMA, is fighters trying to figure out exactly how to position themselves and how to move-

Miriam Nakamoto 9:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:32 ... and then all the variables, right? How many different ways there are to do it really successfully. Like, you see how Conor McGregor stands. Wide stance, kinda sideways.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:41 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:41 He, he stands almost like, like a karate guy in a lot of ways.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:44 He's built it around his pow- his strong weapons.

Joe Rogan 9:46 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:47 Whereas different guys have, you know, different ways of doing, like, you know, Daniel Cormier, very different style.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:52 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:52 You know, hands up high, moves forward.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:54 You know, a lot of bobbing and weaving. He's much more, like, a boxer.

Miriam Nakamoto 9:57 He doesn't really give a fuck if you get, he- you get i- your hands on him though.

Joe Rogan 10:01 No.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:02 Where Conor does.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Right. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:03 Where Conor's like, he, he'd stay away for his-

Joe Rogan 10:05 Exactly.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:06 ... moral, like, stay away.

Joe Rogan 10:06 Exactly.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:06 And his is more like, "Come at me, bitch."

Joe Rogan 10:08 Yeah. "Grab me, bitch."

Miriam Nakamoto 10:09 But I'm like-

Joe Rogan 10:09 You know, for a while.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:09 ... I'm, like, I'm the one going to come and get you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:11 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:12 So it's different. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:13 Yeah. It is, uh... But it's, uh, it's fascinating also how a lot of people that come from certain backgrounds, like even wrestlers who come from, uh, a wrestling background, they have to alter their own wrestling style for MMA.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:25 Like, a lot of wrestlers, specifically guys who stand in an orthodox position, position when they're boxing-

Miriam Nakamoto 10:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:31 ... but if they were a right-handed wrestler-

Miriam Nakamoto 10:33 They're southpaw.

Joe Rogan 10:33 ... a lot of times they'd be standing southpaw.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:36 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:36 And they'd be shooting with their right leg forward and-

Miriam Nakamoto 10:38 Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 10:39 So it's a lot of, like-

Miriam Nakamoto 10:40 Judo too, right?

Joe Rogan 10:41 Yeah. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:42 It's a lot of weird... Like, MMA is such a different thing.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:46 It's so different. There's so... It, like, it's where all the pieces come together, and some of them don't line up that good.

Miriam Nakamoto 10:53 Yeah. Yeah. I think the best people are the ones that can make it line up.

Joe Rogan 10:58 Sure. Yeah. And-

Miriam Nakamoto 10:59 With, with the most fluidity.

Joe Rogan 11:01 When you see, um, particularly you, 'cause you're a w- a world champion Muay Thai fighter, and when you see the level of standup in MMA, for sure now, with women, it's the highest it's ever been, right? Like-

Miriam Nakamoto 11:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:12 ... right around now?

Miriam Nakamoto 11:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:14 But yet still not quite the level that you would see in, like, championship Muay Thai, except for girls like Valentina and-

Miriam Nakamoto 11:21 She's amazing.

Joe Rogan 11:21 ... Joanna. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:22 She's amazing.

Joe Rogan 11:23 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:23 I-

Joe Rogan 11:23 Cyborg, of course, is very scary.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:25 I take... Yeah, she is. She's so nice.

Joe Rogan 11:29 Super nice, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 11:30 You can-

Joe Rogan 11:30 Can I have this? Pull that-

Miriam Nakamoto 11:31 Sorry.

Joe Rogan 11:31 It's all right.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:32 This hair?

Joe Rogan 11:32 Yeah, you can move it around.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:33 Oh. Oh.

Joe Rogan 11:34 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 11:34 There we go.

Joe Rogan 11:34 There you go.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:35 All right.

Joe Rogan 11:35 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:36 Um, yeah. Have you met her?

Joe Rogan 11:38 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:38 Have you, like, really-

Joe Rogan 11:39 I feel bad for making fun of her. I've made fun of her before.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:41 She... (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:43 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 11:44 Yeah. Duh.

Joe Rogan 11:44 She's very nice.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:44 She's so nice. She's, um, just got, like, this really, uh, tender s- soul or heart.

Joe Rogan 11:50 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:50 You know, and which is funny 'cause-

Joe Rogan 11:52 Which seems genuine.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:53 Yeah, very genuine.

Joe Rogan 11:54 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 11:54 Very, very genuine. And she's-

Joe Rogan 11:55 You see her smashing people, it's like-

Miriam Nakamoto 11:57 Yeah. Well, that's genuine too.

Joe Rogan 11:58 Yeah, it's... (laughs) Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 12:00 (laughs) See, it's like... So whatever it is, it's 100%.

Joe Rogan 12:02 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 12:02 And that's... And there's something, uh, really, um, rare-

Joe Rogan 12:06 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 12:06 And, uh, and then, uh, so powerful. Because people aren't 100%.

Joe Rogan 12:11 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 12:12 You know, they aren't 100%, like, fully, like, just heart broken, wide open, um, um, soft.

Joe Rogan 12:18 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 12:18 And then they're not 100%, you know, violent.

Joe Rogan 12:22 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 12:22 And she's just like 100%. So cool about her.

Joe Rogan 12:25 Yeah. That-

Miriam Nakamoto 12:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:27 That's interesting, right? Like, when she fights, she's 100% committed-

Miriam Nakamoto 12:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:31 ... and violent.

Miriam Nakamoto 12:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:31 Yeah?

Miriam Nakamoto 12:32 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:32 And that is, that's, that's something that you see in a lot of, a lot of champions. It's like there's a-

Miriam Nakamoto 12:38 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:38 There's an abil-

Miriam Nakamoto 12:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:39 Like, there's an ability to be like a really nice person-

Miriam Nakamoto 12:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:43 ... and then a terrible person. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 12:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Or not even a terrible person, a furious competitor.

Miriam Nakamoto 12:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:49 You know?

Miriam Nakamoto 12:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:50 When you first started fighting-

Miriam Nakamoto 12:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:52 ... did you just find that inside of you? Did you know it was always there? Like that's, you have, 'cause you're, you're a person that I, if I had to, like, if I had to explain you, like, you're, like, very energetic and fun-loving. You're a very nice person.

Miriam Nakamoto 13:06 (laughs) Skipping around your studio.

Joe Rogan 13:07 You're fun.

Miriam Nakamoto 13:08 It's like (laughs) I'm a fun to be around. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:08 You're a fun person. I mean, we, we probably met in, like, I wanna say it was 2003.

Miriam Nakamoto 13:15 Oh.

Joe Rogan 13:15 It was the, the Bomb Squad days.

Miriam Nakamoto 13:17 I was about 28.

Joe Rogan 13:19 Yeah, back in the-

Miriam Nakamoto 13:20 And I'm 42.

Joe Rogan 13:21 ... the dizay, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 13:22 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:23 Uh, but you've always been like that.

Miriam Nakamoto 13:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:25 But then when I've seen you fight-

Miriam Nakamoto 13:28 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 13:28 ... like, this is a different Miriam. Like, Miriam, when Miriam comes to fight, it's like, "Oh, she got a little switch in there."

Miriam Nakamoto 13:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:34 There's, you hit a switch and then you become a different person. And then it's not just that you're a competitor, you're, you become super hyper-focused and aware-

Miriam Nakamoto 13:43 Mm.

Joe Rogan 13:44 ... and ru-

Miriam Nakamoto 13:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:44 ... ruthlessly aggressive.

Miriam Nakamoto 13:47 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:48 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 13:48 I, um-

Joe Rogan 13:49 Did you know that was always in you before you fought?

Miriam Nakamoto 13:52 I (laughs) always knew that I, I would always have trouble with girlfriends. I don't mean, like, dating, I mean, like, trying to have a, a girl that's a friend when I was younger, 'cause I would hurt them.

Joe Rogan 14:05 You'd hurt them physically?

Miriam Nakamoto 14:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:07 Accidentally?

Miriam Nakamoto 14:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:09 Like, what do you mean?

Miriam Nakamoto 14:09 Like, I was wrestling around with this-

Joe Rogan 14:11 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 14:11 ... one, one woman. I was like, "Yeah, we're gonna be friends. We're, like, the same height." And we're wrestling around, playing around after we were, like, partying in Vegas. And I, we're wrestlin' and I wrap my legs around her ribcage and squeeze and crack something in there.

Joe Rogan 14:24 Oh. Where were you? You were on the ground?

Miriam Nakamoto 14:27 We went to, like, Utopia and then we went to this after-party afterwards (laughs) and we went to, so it was like-

Joe Rogan 14:31 And you were drunk?

Miriam Nakamoto 14:32 I was, like, in my 20s, drunk or whatever, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:35 Or whatever.

Miriam Nakamoto 14:36 Or whatever.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Yeah. Or whatever.

Miriam Nakamoto 14:36 And, uh, she, she was my size, so I thought, you know, she wanted to wrestle too, so I was like, "Okay, I'll wrestle too," and-

Joe Rogan 14:42 Ouch.

Miriam Nakamoto 14:43 Yeah, I cracked something in there.

Joe Rogan 14:44 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 14:44 And she didn't wanna be my friend anymore.

Joe Rogan 14:46 She was mad at you?

Miriam Nakamoto 14:47 That was really sad.

Joe Rogan 14:48 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 14:49 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:50 Well, you probably got off light. Anybody gets upset that, you know-

Miriam Nakamoto 14:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:54 It's not like you meant to hurt her.

Miriam Nakamoto 14:56 No, but I'd be pre-

Joe Rogan 14:58 Why the fuck... That is a weird thing that people do, right? I mean, I've seen guys do it and girls do it, where they start play wrestling, but they have no fucking idea what they're doing.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:07 And then, and then they hurt themselves. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 15:08 And they bite off more than they could chew.

Joe Rogan 15:10 Yeah. Well, it's, uh, a common thing for whatever reason. People get a little drunk or whatever-

Miriam Nakamoto 15:14 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 15:14 ... and then they wanna wrestle.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:16 So what I used to do is I used to let people play around, like, with me.

Joe Rogan 15:20 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:20 And then I ended up getting stabbed in the eyes.

Joe Rogan 15:22 Oh, with fingers?

Miriam Nakamoto 15:23 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 15:24 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:25 Yeah, so now I don't. I'm like-

Joe Rogan 15:28 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 15:28 ... "All right, cool."

Joe Rogan 15:29 That's the number one problem.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:30 "I don't wanna play with you anymore at MMA."

Joe Rogan 15:32 For sure. The fucking gloves.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:35 (laughs) Gloves.

Joe Rogan 15:35 I fucking hate it. There's so many guys, like, look at Michael-

Miriam Nakamoto 15:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:38 ... Michael Bisping. He has one eye that's, like, completely fucked up, so he's got oil in his eye.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:44 They should, um, penalize more, higher for that.

Joe Rogan 15:48 100%.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:49 Yeah. I think that, um, that would, the behavior would dis- decrease.

Joe Rogan 15:55 I think so too.

Miriam Nakamoto 15:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:56 I think one point. I think one point for a nut shot and one point for an eye poke.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:00 Just period.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:01 You, you didn't mean to do it, that's great-

Miriam Nakamoto 16:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:03 ... but you did it, so-

Miriam Nakamoto 16:04 Well, for the second nut shot.

Joe Rogan 16:05 No, first nut shot.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:07 Really?

Joe Rogan 16:07 First nut shot, first eye poke.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:08 Oh, because I don't have nuts.

Joe Rogan 16:10 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:10 So I'm a little bit more lenient on that one.

Joe Rogan 16:11 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:11 I'm like, "Yeah, well, whatever."

Joe Rogan 16:13 Well, Brian Foster is a dude who fought for the UFC back in the day.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:17 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:17 He lost a nut.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:19 That's not funny. How dare you?

Miriam Nakamoto 16:21 I knew somebody... Okay, so I just-

Joe Rogan 16:23 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 16:24 (laughs) No, so what it re- reminded me of this guy that was at the old, uh, Fairtex Clementina, when back when Alex Gane was there.

Joe Rogan 16:30 Oh, okay.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:30 And he, so the rumor had it that he had one ball. And, yeah, and he was kinda grumpy and sorta, like, insecure and-

Joe Rogan 16:38 'Cause he only had one ball?

Miriam Nakamoto 16:39 I, yeah, I guess so.

Joe Rogan 16:40 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:41 So this, I just thought of him.

Joe Rogan 16:43 Okay.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:43 And it just made me laugh.

Joe Rogan 16:43 You just laughed? Okay. That makes sense.

Miriam Nakamoto 16:45 The, so it's not, yeah. But that-

Joe Rogan 16:46 So it's not just balls in general?

Miriam Nakamoto 16:47 No, but that would be really, that would just be super painful to lose one of those.

Joe Rogan 16:50 Apparently what happened with him is-

Miriam Nakamoto 16:51 They rupture?

Joe Rogan 16:52 ... he was sparring in, like, like, one last round, decided not to wear his cup, and went out there and slambo, got, took one right on the sack and it burst.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:04 No!

Miriam Nakamoto 17:04 He's still fighting.

Joe Rogan 17:05 I saw him, uh, on a re- a smaller, uh, one of those, you know, like, uh, AXS TV fights recently.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:11 That reminds me of, like, a, you know, when the breast implant gets ruptured-

Joe Rogan 17:14 Oh, that's so much worse than a breast implant.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:15 ... and the silicone is all over the place.

Joe Rogan 17:16 'Cause if, if a breast implant helped you be a woman-

Miriam Nakamoto 17:17 But then the little sperm are all through your system.

Joe Rogan 17:20 It would be like if a breast implant helped you be a woman.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:22 'Cause that's like the sac that produces your testosterone.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:26 Yes.

Joe Rogan 17:26 What a stupid design.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:26 He has half less. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:28 Yeah. Yeah, well, another buddy of mine lost one to cancer.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:32 Oh.

Joe Rogan 17:32 He, he just impregnated his lady.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:34 Yay.

Joe Rogan 17:34 So it still works.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:36 Yay.

Joe Rogan 17:36 To you, Duncan. A toast.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:38 (laughs) To Duncan.

Joe Rogan 17:40 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:40 That was awesome.

Joe Rogan 17:41 Yeah, but, um, we, we were talking about getting kicked in the balls. Oh, yeah, one point, just one point for eye pokes.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:48 One point for ball shots.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:49 Just take a point away every time.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:50 I think that would be giant. I think that would-

Miriam Nakamoto 17:52 I think that's fair.

Joe Rogan 17:53 I would, it would fucking help 'cause so many people are doing this.

Miriam Nakamoto 17:55 Because w- so the thing, the thing is, a good eye poke will change the, change the, um, change the fight.

Joe Rogan 18:01 100%.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:02 It can, it can sway the fight one way or the other.

Joe Rogan 18:04 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:05 You know? So...Uh, I don't, I, that's ... And people, uh, they've gotten poked in the eye, the ref lets it continue, and then they get fucked up-

Joe Rogan 18:13 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:14 ... and then they lose.

Joe Rogan 18:14 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:15 A fight that they were winning.

Joe Rogan 18:16 Exactly.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:16 Yeah, that's terrible.

Joe Rogan 18:17 It's terrible.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:18 It's a huge swing. I think one point, absolutely, and I think there should be a better way to determine whether or not a guy's eyes have been compromised by that eye poke.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:28 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:28 And sometimes it's not within the ... I mean, everybody wants to see the fight continue, but if you really had to think about it, like if this guy really can only see outta one eye-

Miriam Nakamoto 18:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:36 ... it's not right.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:37 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:38 You know?

Miriam Nakamoto 18:38 Especially when it wasn't their fault.

Joe Rogan 18:39 But it's also such a fucking shit design. All your fingers are just out there.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:43 Maybe they should just curve them more.

Joe Rogan 18:45 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:45 Like the same design, just curved.

Joe Rogan 18:47 Well, they're all-

Miriam Nakamoto 18:48 So you automatically ... Like when you have a good hand wrap?

Joe Rogan 18:49 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:50 Like when they wrap your hands for the fight, when it's a good one? You, they just sit like this.

Joe Rogan 18:53 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:54 Like your hands just sit there.

Joe Rogan 18:54 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 18:55 So they're just already ready to, you know ... It's perfect.

Joe Rogan 18:57 Well, there's-

Miriam Nakamoto 18:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:58 ... someone that I know that's working closely with the UFC that's working on a new design that I think is gonna be far superior.

Miriam Nakamoto 19:03 Nice. Okay.

Joe Rogan 19:04 But still, the fingers are exposed. I think almost like the fingers should be covered. And wrappers-

Miriam Nakamoto 19:08 But how are they gonna grab though?

Joe Rogan 19:09 But I think you cover it like a bag glove. You know how bag gloves, like those old school Everlast bag gloves?

Miriam Nakamoto 19:14 Well, that would, that would be amazing for me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:18 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 19:18 For a grappler, I don't think they'd like that.

Joe Rogan 19:19 But I think it'd be good for a grappler too.

Miriam Nakamoto 19:20 I don't know, man.

Joe Rogan 19:20 If I had to grapple with bag gloves on, I don't think I'd have a problem with it.

Miriam Nakamoto 19:24 It'd be harder-

Joe Rogan 19:24 The real problem is-

Miriam Nakamoto 19:25 ... to grab the ...

Joe Rogan 19:26 Maybe.

Miriam Nakamoto 19:27 You know, like a wrestler, and they ...

Joe Rogan 19:28 I don't know. The, I think the real ... But I think it'd give you more traction, honestly.

Miriam Nakamoto 19:32 Really?

Joe Rogan 19:32 The real, the real problem is the pad on the knuckle, like when you're going behind the neck. When you're choking?

Miriam Nakamoto 19:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:38 When you're going behind the ... It's very hard to get that fucker behind the neck-

Miriam Nakamoto 19:41 (laughs) You really thought about this.

Joe Rogan 19:41 ... without that padding. It is, it's hard when you ... I've grappled with, you know, I've never had an MMA fight, but I had grappled-

Miriam Nakamoto 19:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:47 ... quite a bit with, with b- with gloves. What are these? Jimmy?

Miriam Nakamoto 19:50 Those are, those are the Spartan ones.

Guest (unidentified third person) 19:51 It's Tipton grappling gloves, and-

Joe Rogan 19:53 Yeah.

Guest (unidentified third person) 19:53 ... something like, but he was talking about some of the keys.

Joe Rogan 19:54 Yeah, those are just like, um, those are just a little bit more padding. But those, yeah, I mean, that, that's a little bit better. Pride gloves were better, honestly, quite honestly.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:03 This one curves.

Joe Rogan 20:04 Pride gloves really had much more curve to them.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:06 Yeah. It's just-

Joe Rogan 20:06 And there was very few eye pokes in Pride.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:08 I, I won't even, um, fuck with a, a boxing glove that doesn't curve. Like it doesn't-

Joe Rogan 20:13 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:13 Like, if I have to make a fist inside the glove, I'm not gonna deal with that.

Joe Rogan 20:17 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:17 That looks good.

Joe Rogan 20:17 See, there, this is like-

Miriam Nakamoto 20:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:19 Uh, someone had observed this a long time ago, that ... Look at the UFC gloves on the right and the Pride gloves on the left.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:24 The Pride glove is, your hand's curved.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:26 So that's a Pride glove?

Joe Rogan 20:26 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:27 Oh.

Joe Rogan 20:27 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:27 Oh, that's way-

Joe Rogan 20:28 It's a way better glove.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:28 ... better.

Joe Rogan 20:29 It's a way better glove.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:30 Yeah. And the back of your hand is, like, padded in a weird spot. I don't know why they pad right here. Like, right above the wrist.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:37 Where, where, where?

Joe Rogan 20:38 Scroll, sc- go, make that ... Like, right there. The one, that one. Like, what's up?

Miriam Nakamoto 20:41 You know, though, if you did a spinning back fist-

Joe Rogan 20:44 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:44 ... and you hit-

Joe Rogan 20:45 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:45 ... you'd ... These are little bones.

Joe Rogan 20:46 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:47 They break that shit.

Joe Rogan 20:47 They do break.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:48 But most of the time you're doing that, you're hardly ever doing it like a back fist. You're kinda doing it like a hammer fist. And then the real thing is happening, with a lot of fighters, is they're hitting foreheads.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:57 Uh.

Joe Rogan 20:58 Snapping arms.

Miriam Nakamoto 20:59 That's the one-

Joe Rogan 20:59 You know, Paul Felder just did that.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:01 ... punch if you hit me with it, I'll be, I'll fucking ...

Joe Rogan 21:03 You get mad?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:04 I get so mad.

Joe Rogan 21:04 Why do you get mad?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:05 Because-

Joe Rogan 21:05 Get your fists, getting back fisted.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:06 ... I don't know, it's just bullshit.

Joe Rogan 21:07 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 21:07 It's just bullshit.

Joe Rogan 21:09 Why is it bullshit?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:09 Some fucking bullshit ass, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 21:11 Is it a bullshit move?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:12 It's just bullshit.

Joe Rogan 21:13 Some people have moves that they feel are bullshit moves, if they get hit with them.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:16 I, yeah, that's why I'm just like offended.

Joe Rogan 21:18 Like if somebody ax kicked you.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:20 No, I don't care.

Joe Rogan 21:20 That wouldn't be bullshit?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:21 No, if they push kicked me in the face, I wouldn't care.

Joe Rogan 21:23 No. Okay.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:23 I'd be like, "All right."

Joe Rogan 21:24 But a spinning back fist?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:25 Bullshit.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:25 I'm offended.

Joe Rogan 21:26 But it's so good, it's such a good technique though.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:28 I know, it's just, uh, some fucking cornball about that.

Joe Rogan 21:30 Okay, what about spinning elbows though?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:32 Elbows are awesome.

Joe Rogan 21:33 Oh, that doesn't make any sense.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:34 And I'm not great at them. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:37 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 21:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:37 Tha- that doesn't make any sense.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:38 I know, I know. I contradicted myself.

Joe Rogan 21:39 Doesn't have to.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:40 Doesn't have to make sense, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:41 No. No.

Joe Rogan 21:42 Yeah, there's ...

Miriam Nakamoto 21:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:44 It is weird, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:46 Well, I mean, I would, I think they should allow spinning back fists in boxing. Make boxing-

Miriam Nakamoto 21:49 (laughs) No.

Joe Rogan 21:49 ... way more interesting.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:51 Can you imagine? H- how everybody would be so cocky, you know?

Miriam Nakamoto 21:55 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 21:56 G- so many guys that think they're safe.

Miriam Nakamoto 21:59 Do you know how mad the boxing fans would be?

Joe Rogan 22:00 Oh, how many guys would get flat-lined?

Miriam Nakamoto 22:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:03 How many guys who don't know what the fuck to do about it? Your standard fucking spin ...

Miriam Nakamoto 22:07 And Superman punches?

Joe Rogan 22:08 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:10 Well, Superman punches, I think, are legal. Right? Aren't they?

Miriam Nakamoto 22:12 I ... They're-

Joe Rogan 22:14 But they wouldn't react the same way, right? No one would think you're throwing a leg kick.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:17 Why is, why is mine slant- ... Is it 'cause ... Why is mine-

Joe Rogan 22:20 'Cause you have all this hair.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:21 Is it?

Joe Rogan 22:21 Yeah, I'm bald as fuck.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:22 Oh, there we go.

Joe Rogan 22:23 There you go.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:24 Uh-oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:25 Um-

Joe Rogan 22:25 Form fitted, there you go.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:26 ... there we go.

Joe Rogan 22:26 That's better.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:27 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 22:28 Um, yeah. But why can't they have spinning back fists in boxing?

Miriam Nakamoto 22:33 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 22:33 Should be able to.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:34 They're purists.

Joe Rogan 22:35 They are very purist.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:37 But I- I see where they're coming from in a certain way. Like, when boxers talk shit about MMA and striking in MMA-

Miriam Nakamoto 22:43 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 22:43 ... I see where they're coming from.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:44 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 22:45 They're wrong, because your shit won't work.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:48 Like, come try that shit.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:49 You're gonna get taken down, stupid. Like, this is the whole reason-

Miriam Nakamoto 22:51 I- I actually-

Joe Rogan 22:51 ... why they do it a different way.

Miriam Nakamoto 22:52 But I actually do believe that a boxer with incredible footwork and a jab, a great jab, could survive and win in an MMA fight.

Joe Rogan 23:05 As long as he doesn't fight a long guy with good kicks, like a Jon Jones. Jon Jones will just kick the shit outta you from a distance.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:12 And you're not even gonna get-

Miriam Nakamoto 23:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:13 ... close to him. And then by the time you've eaten all those leg kicks, you're not moving so good.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:17 Yeah, that's fair.

Joe Rogan 23:18 And then he'll grab ahold of you-

Miriam Nakamoto 23:18 Okay.

Joe Rogan 23:18 ... and smash your face in.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:19 I agree.

Joe Rogan 23:20 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:21 But yeah, I think, I think footwork is the key.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Do you remember when Vince Foster, when he was, uh, not quite world-class anymore, he had lost the title, and then he-

Miriam Nakamoto 23:29 See, this is what worries me, 'cause I don't remember shit-

Joe Rogan 23:32 You don't remember shit?

Miriam Nakamoto 23:32 ... because you're way more of a fan than I am.

Joe Rogan 23:34 (laughs) Well, he fought Masato, back when Masato was, uh, the king of K-1 over in Japan.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:40 Masato, the sexiest Japanese man I've ever seen.

Joe Rogan 23:43 Pretty sexy.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:43 Yeah, he's super sexy.

Joe Rogan 23:44 But is he sexier than Sexyama?

Miriam Nakamoto 23:46 I don't know who Sexyama is.

Joe Rogan 23:48 What?

Miriam Nakamoto 23:48 Who the hell is Sexyama?

Joe Rogan 23:49 You don't know who Sexyama is?

Miriam Nakamoto 23:50 I don't see Sexyama.

Joe Rogan 23:51 Sexyama fought in the UFC several times, fought in Pride.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:53 Oh, did he?

Joe Rogan 23:54 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:54 I don't know who that is. That's a great name though.

Joe Rogan 23:56 A gorgeous, gorgeous man.

Miriam Nakamoto 23:57 I feel like that should be a super sushi roll.

Joe Rogan 23:59 There he is. There's Sexyama.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:01 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 24:01 He's in a cup.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:01 Masato's way better looking.

Joe Rogan 24:03 Yeah, you say that. You're not in Sexyama's presence.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:07 Look at that.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:08 I like the way he glows.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Yeah, look at him. Man, it's beautiful.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:12 Look at those pecs.

Joe Rogan 24:13 Yeah, and he's got that-... cross dangling super low. What's going on with that?

Miriam Nakamoto 24:16 So you look.

Joe Rogan 24:17 That cro- ... Oh, it's almost like a belly button ring or some shit.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:20 It's like, it's-

Joe Rogan 24:20 That's a deal-breaker, right, a dude with a belly button ring?

Miriam Nakamoto 24:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:22 How about that? A guy, a gorgeous guy with a belly button ring. What do you-

Miriam Nakamoto 24:25 That means he's freaky.

Joe Rogan 24:26 Is that what it means?

Miriam Nakamoto 24:27 Or too vain.

Joe Rogan 24:27 Or gay as fuck.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:29 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:29 More likely.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:34 (laughs) That's something men just never rock.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:36 I think it, I think it means he's freaky or he takes too many selfies.

Joe Rogan 24:39 Yeah, definitely takes too many selfies.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:40 If you ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Is that something any man has ever bravely tried to rock? I know guys do nipple rings. Like, a real freaky dude would do nipple rings.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:46 I think I've seen it once.

Joe Rogan 24:47 You've seen a belly button ring on a male?

Miriam Nakamoto 24:49 I think so. One time, I saw a pierced-

Joe Rogan 24:53 Who's that?

Miriam Nakamoto 24:53 That's-

Joe Rogan 24:54 Masato?

Miriam Nakamoto 24:54 Masato.

Joe Rogan 24:55 Oh, there he is. Beautiful. I thought you were showing me a belly button ring. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 24:58 There's better pictures of him.

Joe Rogan 24:59 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 24:59 There's better. He's really good-looking.

Joe Rogan 25:01 Masato is very handsome.

Miriam Nakamoto 25:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:02 And still is.

Miriam Nakamoto 25:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:03 And, you know, and, and still, you know, is very active in all sorts of, uh, promotions and stuff in Japan.

Miriam Nakamoto 25:09 Did you see when he fought, um ... No, when he was gonna fight Petrosyan and Petrosyan was killing Souwer?

Joe Rogan 25:18 And what happened?

Miriam Nakamoto 25:18 It was supposed to be his, like, uh, his, his-

Joe Rogan 25:20 His swan song.

Miriam Nakamoto 25:21 ... goodbye.

Joe Rogan 25:22 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 25:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:22 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 25:22 Yeah, and so he's watching Petrosyan just ... I think it was Souwer. Destroy-

Joe Rogan 25:26 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 25:26 ... Andy Souwer, and, and, uh, he's just like-

Joe Rogan 25:30 "Fuck this."

Miriam Nakamoto 25:32 (laughs) He's like, "Uh ... "

Joe Rogan 25:34 "I'm good."

Miriam Nakamoto 25:34 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 25:34 Pull up Masato versus, um, Vince Phillips, 'cause what was interesting about this, it was, uh, it was like ... Do you remember when, um, Shannon the Cannon, um, d- decided to fight in K-1 and he fought, uh, Tom Erickson in a kickboxing match?

Miriam Nakamoto 25:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:49 No? You don't remember?

Miriam Nakamoto 25:51 I don't remember.

Joe Rogan 25:51 But that was a similar thing, but Tom Erickson was not ... You know, Tom Erickson was a wrestler who was an MMA fighter.

Miriam Nakamoto 25:56 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 25:56 And, uh, Shannon Briggs ate a couple of leg kicks and was talking about it on the podcast.

Miriam Nakamoto 26:01 Uh.

Joe Rogan 26:01 Like, that he was trying to play it off. He was like, "Goddamn, that shit hurt." But, uh, he wound up KO-ing Tom Erickson.

Miriam Nakamoto 26:08 Oh.

Joe Rogan 26:08 But Tom Erickson, at the time, was not nearly the kind of striker that Vince Phillips was when Vince Phillips fought Masato.

Miriam Nakamoto 26:14 Okay.

Joe Rogan 26:14 Vince Phillips had beaten world-class fighters. I think ... Who did he beat? He beat some fucking high-level, world-class boxers, and then, you know, he got, like, 36, 37, 38, and then took this fight-

Guest (unidentified third person) 26:28 37?

Joe Rogan 26:28 Was he 37 at the time?

Guest (unidentified third person) 26:30 Uh, I don't know that.

Joe Rogan 26:32 So he fought Vince Phillips, but it was so weird seeing, uh, Vince Phillips walk out there barefoot. I mean, they should've let him wear boxing shoes.

Miriam Nakamoto 26:40 At least.

Joe Rogan 26:40 'Cause he's not throwing any kicks.

Miriam Nakamoto 26:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:43 And Masato just f- ... Get-

Miriam Nakamoto 26:45 Fucking that outfit.

Joe Rogan 26:45 Give me some ... Beautiful man.

Miriam Nakamoto 26:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:48 Perfect bone structure.

Miriam Nakamoto 26:49 Yeah. He's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 26:52 Perfect hair, too. Look at-

Miriam Nakamoto 26:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:53 ... his stylish-

Miriam Nakamoto 26:54 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:55 And Vince Phillips is like, "What the fuck did I sign up for?" Yeah, that feeling that they have when they're-

Miriam Nakamoto 27:00 Fuck that shoulder pad.

Joe Rogan 27:00 ... they know they're about to get leg kicked. (clears throat) So right away, he opens up inside and just moves away from the punches, sets, goes up high, goes up high a bunch of times, kicking into the arms, and then goes across the leg. See, that's a, that's a weird one, right? The across-the-thigh nut shot.

Miriam Nakamoto 27:22 I never throw that one.

Joe Rogan 27:23 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 27:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:26 But this was ... I mean, this is at the time, like, one of the first times that a, a real world-class boxer had attempted a kickboxing fight. And now, that's, um-

Miriam Nakamoto 27:37 I love that he did this.

Joe Rogan 27:38 Frans Botha did that, too.

Miriam Nakamoto 27:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:40 Do you remember Frans Botha? He was a heavyweight contender in boxing in the-

Miriam Nakamoto 27:44 How much time-

Joe Rogan 27:44 ... '80s and '90s.

Miriam Nakamoto 27:45 ... a day do you dedicate watching-

Joe Rogan 27:46 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 27:46 ... to watching fights?

Joe Rogan 27:48 If you talk to my wife and ask her what she told me-

Miriam Nakamoto 27:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:51 ... about 10 minutes ago, I, I will not remember what the fuck she said.

Miriam Nakamoto 27:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:55 There's a lot of shit that I don't remember.

Miriam Nakamoto 27:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:58 But I have, like, storage units in my brain, and stuff, like-

Miriam Nakamoto 28:01 Fights.

Joe Rogan 28:01 ... "Oh, that's interesting. What happened there?" "This happened." "Oh, why'd that happen?"

Miriam Nakamoto 28:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:05 "Why did this go wrong? Oh, okay."

Miriam Nakamoto 28:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:07 Pull up, uh, Georgio Petrosyan versus, um, uh, Andy Souwer.

Miriam Nakamoto 28:12 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 28:13 S-A-U-E-R.

Guest (unidentified third person) 28:14 Right, Frans Botha.

Joe Rogan 28:14 Is it ... No. How's it how you spell? Oh, here's Frans Botha.

Miriam Nakamoto 28:17 S-O-U.

Joe Rogan 28:18 Yeah, S-O-U. So Frans Botha ... This is Frans Botha fat as fuck, too.

Guest (unidentified third person) 28:24 Yeah, this is like-

Joe Rogan 28:24 He had, like, he had hit the wall. He was the White Buffalo.

Guest (unidentified third person) 28:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:27 He's a South African heavyweight. But he, uh, he actually learned how to kick a little bit. And he was not just boxing guys, but his, his hands were just way better than most boxers, or most kickboxers, rather.

Miriam Nakamoto 28:40 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 28:40 'Cause he was, at one point in time, a real heavyweight contender. This is not-

Miriam Nakamoto 28:44 Wait, which one is it?

Joe Rogan 28:44 ... a good example of this.

Guest (unidentified third person) 28:45 Yeah, no, I just-

Miriam Nakamoto 28:46 Which one is it? Oh, the-

Joe Rogan 28:46 This is 2015? Holy shit, dude.

Guest (unidentified third person) 28:49 Yeah, this is random, recent.

Joe Rogan 28:50 Th- this is two thousand ... This guy was fucking contender in the '90s.

Miriam Nakamoto 28:53 Oh.

Joe Rogan 28:53 He's already hurt.

Miriam Nakamoto 28:54 Ooh.

Guest (unidentified third person) 28:54 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 28:55 Yeah, this is-

Guest (unidentified third person) 28:56 Not great.

Miriam Nakamoto 28:56 He should've thrown a knee.

Guest (unidentified third person) 28:57 Bad example.

Joe Rogan 28:57 Did you watch the Chuck Liddell fight?

Miriam Nakamoto 28:59 Uh, just the end of it.

Joe Rogan 29:01 Yeah. Not good, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 29:04 Uh-uh. How old is he now?

Joe Rogan 29:07 50.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:07 Damn.

Joe Rogan 29:08 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:09 So there's hope for me.

Joe Rogan 29:10 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 29:10 Oh, wait, he lost it. Shit.

Joe Rogan 29:12 Well, you've never been knocked out the way he's, he's been knocked out so many times.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:17 I don't think I've ever been knocked out.

Joe Rogan 29:20 Not in the gym? Not ever?

Miriam Nakamoto 29:21 Flash, flash knockdown, that's it.

Joe Rogan 29:23 Knockdown, yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:24 I've had concussions and been knocked out from, like, falling in the rain-

Joe Rogan 29:27 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:27 ... and falling off a second-floor landing when I was a kid.

Joe Rogan 29:29 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:29 But in fighting, I never ... Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 29:33 Chuck's also ... I think there was an issue with his style, because his style was so aggressive-

Miriam Nakamoto 29:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:39 ... aggressive, that people could just set, set, set, boom, and counter-

Miriam Nakamoto 29:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:43 ... like Rashad Evans did with him.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:45 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 29:45 And so you're getting his momentum coming forward-

Miriam Nakamoto 29:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:48 ... and the shot-

Miriam Nakamoto 29:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:49 ... and he would get flatlined.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:51 He doesn't change.

Joe Rogan 29:52 No.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:53 He doesn't-

Joe Rogan 29:54 No.

Miriam Nakamoto 29:54 ... evolve.

Joe Rogan 29:55 He had a style that was incredibly effective back in the day.

Miriam Nakamoto 30:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:00 And I think he became married to that, that approach. You know, the approach that worked so well on Babalu, so well on Tito in the early fights.

Miriam Nakamoto 30:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:10 He was just a m- marauder. You could hit him in the face with a fucking crowbar and he would just spit metal out at you. He didn't give a fuck.

Miriam Nakamoto 30:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:16 He was so badass back in the day, and he relied on that so much.

Miriam Nakamoto 30:20 I remember all the mohawks.

Joe Rogan 30:22 ... yeah, everybody wore-

Miriam Nakamoto 30:23 The little kids?

Joe Rogan 30:23 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 30:24 Of all the-

Joe Rogan 30:24 They all liked to wear mohawks back in the day.

Miriam Nakamoto 30:26 Yeah, the icemen.

Joe Rogan 30:26 People were getting Japanese symbols tattooed on their head because of him.

Miriam Nakamoto 30:30 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:31 You know?

Miriam Nakamoto 30:31 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:31 Yeah, it's just, that's, that style, there just comes a certain point in time when you just can't do that anymore, you know?

Miriam Nakamoto 30:38 I think, um, I don't know, like, it's the martial artist, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:45 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 30:45 And, uh, artists evolve and they're like, "Oh, well, let me try this new paint. Oh, let me try the, this, this, uh, new technique. Let me try this shading. Let me, you know, start sculpting. Let me try..." And I think with, uh, especially MMA, you know, there's so much opportunity to evolve and just-

Joe Rogan 31:05 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 31:05 ... add new, new, new nuances to you as an artist. I mean, I think that's what I love about it.

Joe Rogan 31:11 There certainly is, but one thing that does happen when, when guys try to add a lot of things-

Miriam Nakamoto 31:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:16 ... like say sometimes they'll try to like, say a wrestler will add a bunch of things to his repertoire, but then they stop with their wrestling practice-

Miriam Nakamoto 31:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:24 ... so then their wrestling is not as sharp.

Miriam Nakamoto 31:26 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:26 And so then when they-

Miriam Nakamoto 31:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:27 ... g- go up against a really good wrestler, they falter-

Miriam Nakamoto 31:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:30 ... and then they're, they don't have what brought them to the dance in the first place.

Miriam Nakamoto 31:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that's just, uh, looking at your opponent, what's in front of you.

Joe Rogan 31:38 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 31:38 And also, like, being honest with yourself. And like, like right now I'm looking at getting back into fighting and if I didn't feel the sharpness, I didn't f- I didn't feel the fire, and not just the fire, if I didn't physically feel the sharpness, if I didn't feel the reflexes, I'd have to be honest with myself and say, "Okay, don't do this."

Joe Rogan 31:57 Do you think that you would 100% be capable of being rational and objective about what you can do right now?

Miriam Nakamoto 32:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:04 Yeah?

Miriam Nakamoto 32:04 Because I don't, I don't fight for participation awards. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:09 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 32:09 You know?

Joe Rogan 32:09 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 32:10 Like, I'm not like, "Hey, I'm a-"

Joe Rogan 32:11 But-

Miriam Nakamoto 32:12 There's some UFC fighters that are like, "I'm a UFC fighter."

Joe Rogan 32:14 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 32:15 "Yay, I've made it." And like, that's not really making it. You're just another... You know, like say, "I'm a world champion. I'm a, the best in the world. I'm a..." That's... "I'm a UFC fighter," is like a participation medal basically. Like, level-

Joe Rogan 32:30 Well, it shows that you're a very high level fighter. You're a very-

Miriam Nakamoto 32:33 But you're not a champion.

Joe Rogan 32:33 ... high level professional fighter. Right. But you, in your eyes-

Miriam Nakamoto 32:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:36 ... you as a champion.

Miriam Nakamoto 32:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:38 That is what's important. You wanna be the queen.

Miriam Nakamoto 32:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:40 You wanna be at the top of the hill.

Miriam Nakamoto 32:41 We wanna be the best of, the, uh, your best self.

Joe Rogan 32:44 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 32:44 You know?

Joe Rogan 32:44 Your best self.

Miriam Nakamoto 32:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 32:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:47 Um, uh, there's one thing that I really like about individual sports, whether it's jujitsu or Muay Thai or any- or boxing-

Miriam Nakamoto 32:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:55 ... is that you can focus on just one sport-

Miriam Nakamoto 32:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:59 ... and all the various aspects of one sport. And there's so much subtlety and so much technique-

Miriam Nakamoto 33:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:05 ... and so much to learn.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:06 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:07 I mean, have you ever watched Floyd Mayweather Sr. train people?

Miriam Nakamoto 33:11 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 33:11 It's really interesting 'cause he's showing guys who are world-class fighters like the subtle, subtle aspects of boxing and movement-

Miriam Nakamoto 33:18 Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.

Joe Rogan 33:18 ... and things they're doing wrong.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:20 And he... You know Simon Marcus? He was working with-

Miriam Nakamoto 33:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:22 ... Simon Marcus-

Miriam Nakamoto 33:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:23 ... and he was doing some training with Simon Marcus and I'm like, "This is so fascinating."

Miriam Nakamoto 33:26 That had to be hard.

Joe Rogan 33:28 For a guy like Simon?

Miriam Nakamoto 33:28 Yeah, 'cause he's very rigid.

Joe Rogan 33:30 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:30 And he's, he gets so much power from his rigidity.

Joe Rogan 33:33 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:34 And so, like, boxing is much more, it's not rigid, you know?

Joe Rogan 33:37 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:37 It's like hip-hop.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:39 You know, like... (beat boxes)

Joe Rogan 33:41 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:41 It's got that, like, that beat to it and that-

Joe Rogan 33:43 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:43 ... like, swag to it and Simon Marcus is just so-

Joe Rogan 33:45 That Muay Thai hard style-

Miriam Nakamoto 33:48 (laughs) Rigid.

Joe Rogan 33:48 ... and a lot of grappling and clinching-

Miriam Nakamoto 33:49 Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 33:49 ... and moving forward.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:51 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 33:51 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:51 Yeah. He's a very physically strong guy too.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:54 Yeah. He looks like he's on shit.

Joe Rogan 33:55 Yeah. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 33:55 But he's not. He does, doesn't he?

Joe Rogan 33:57 Yeah, well, he's got good jeneeds, good genes.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:58 Yeah, great genes.

Joe Rogan 33:59 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 33:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:00 Um, but-

Miriam Nakamoto 34:00 You remember Joe Schilling?

Joe Rogan 34:02 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:02 And Simon Marcus?

Joe Rogan 34:03 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:03 That beef?

Joe Rogan 34:04 Fuck.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:05 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:05 That fourth round.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:06 I do remember that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:07 What a fucking crazy fight. That was... I was there for that.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:09 And there was all the controversy on the first one, right?

Joe Rogan 34:12 Um-

Miriam Nakamoto 34:12 'Cause it was the, there was the, um, illegal... Was it illegal he hooked the back of the heel or something? And then-

Joe Rogan 34:19 This is-

Miriam Nakamoto 34:19 And then on the, on the throat, on the... Yeah, he-

Joe Rogan 34:23 This was the other fights-

Miriam Nakamoto 34:24 The first, their first fight.

Joe Rogan 34:25 ... different fights. Yeah, see-

Miriam Nakamoto 34:26 The first one.

Joe Rogan 34:26 ... the first fight, Simon Marcus won.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:29 But it was like a kno- he got knocked out.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:31 Joe did, from he, uh, when Simon fell on him-

Joe Rogan 34:34 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:35 ... and he also put his foot behind his heel-

Joe Rogan 34:38 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:38 ... I guess, and there was a lot of controversy about that, whether that was legal or not in Muay Thai.

Joe Rogan 34:42 Right. Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:42 And then when he fell on him, I guess he hit Joe in the head, in the jaw with his, his forehead or something.

Joe Rogan 34:47 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:48 And so Joe got up like this.

Joe Rogan 34:50 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:50 Did you remember that?

Joe Rogan 34:51 Yes. I do now.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:52 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 34:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:53 Yeah. So the revenge-

Miriam Nakamoto 34:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:55 ... to have it in that Last Man Standing tournament, which was a fucking crazy thing to begin with, where they were gonna have to fight three times in a night, but-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:02 I don't remember that.

Joe Rogan 35:03 You remember it?

Miriam Nakamoto 35:03 Was that-

Joe Rogan 35:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, they fought... In the first round, Joe fought Simon-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:09 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 35:09 ... and it went three rounds and it was a draw.

Miriam Nakamoto 35:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:13 And so in the fourth round-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:15 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 35:15 ... they had to come out. Both guys were like, "Holy..." You know, Glory goes, "One more round!"

Miriam Nakamoto 35:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:20 And so they're like, "Fuck." And Simon Marcus had kept spitting out his mouthpiece, and Big John McCarthy-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:27 That's a trick.

Joe Rogan 35:27 ... took a point away. So he goes-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:29 He takes a point away from Simon 'cause Simon was exhausted-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:31 ... 'cause they were going to war for three-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:33 That's a trick.

Joe Rogan 35:34 Ab- absolutely.

Miriam Nakamoto 35:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:35 Absolutely. He was spitting out his mouthpiece-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:37 Look at those pecs. Jesus, look at that guy.

Joe Rogan 35:37 ... trying to gain some time. Yeah, he's pretty fucking jacked.

Miriam Nakamoto 35:39 He's so jacked.

Joe Rogan 35:40 And so now he's got one point down going into a fight that's a draw-

Miriam Nakamoto 35:44 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 35:44 ... so he's gotta move forward. So he comes after Joe and Joe knows he's gotta come at him, so Joe starts countering and he catches him with this fucking nasty right hook. I think it's coming soon.

Guest (unidentified third person) 35:57 Yeah, it's like right here in three or four seconds.

Joe Rogan 35:59 Wow, it was a-

Guest (unidentified third person) 36:00 On the side of the ring.

Joe Rogan 36:00 ... a, a wild fight, just a wild series of exchanges, and-

Guest (unidentified third person) 36:04 Right over here.

Joe Rogan 36:05 I think Simon... Yeah, here it is. Simon's moving forward. Boom! There it is.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:08 Oh! (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:08 And Simon had knocked Joe down early in the fight. I think he knocked Joe down in the first, so-

Miriam Nakamoto 36:15 Nice.

Joe Rogan 36:16 He... So Joe lost the first round and then probably won the second and third, so it was a tie going into the fourth.

Guest (unidentified third person) 36:26 End of the second.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:27 Wow.

Joe Rogan 36:27 Yeah.... it was a crazy fight, awesome fight though.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:30 They actually fought in Lion Fight too. I, I, if I ... I've had a lot of concussions, could be wrong, but I thought it was their-

Joe Rogan 36:37 I think they have fought three times.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:39 ... their first fight, The Controversy.

Joe Rogan 36:39 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:40 And then the second fight was in Lion Fight, and it was winner take all, the purse.

Joe Rogan 36:44 Mm.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:44 And then I think it was Glory.

Joe Rogan 36:46 Mm.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:47 I think you're right.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:48 That's, that was round two he got knocked down.

Guest (unidentified third person) 36:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:50 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 36:50 Damn.

Joe Rogan 36:51 Li- I, I, I loved Lion Fight. I wish they had kept it on AXS TV. I don't know-

Miriam Nakamoto 36:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:55 ... what the fuck happened. I don't know where it is now. I think it's, like, on a web app or some shit.

Miriam Nakamoto 37:00 I was afraid to fight Lion Fight because of the judging.

Joe Rogan 37:03 Really?

Miriam Nakamoto 37:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:03 There were some screwy decisions.

Miriam Nakamoto 37:05 Yeah, and I was just like, "Eh."

Joe Rogan 37:06 Yeah. But is that an athletic commission thing? That seems more like a athletic commission thing than a Lion Fight thing.

Miriam Nakamoto 37:11 But does it matter? 'Cause whatever, they keep doing it in the same spot, so it doesn't matter.

Joe Rogan 37:16 It does. Well, that's the say- the case with Vegas though. I mean, Vegas has some terrible fucking judging sometimes.

Miriam Nakamoto 37:21 Jade? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:22 You know? And it's not ... I mean, I don't know how you fix that, other than fire anyone who has any shitty decisions.

Miriam Nakamoto 37:28 And it seems like you can't even y- can you petition?

Joe Rogan 37:32 You can, but nobody wins.

Miriam Nakamoto 37:34 See, that's fucked up.

Joe Rogan 37:35 It is fucked up.

Miriam Nakamoto 37:35 That's-

Joe Rogan 37:36 I can't imagine ... When has anyone, in your recent memory, or in your memory period, when has anyone appealed a decision and won?

Miriam Nakamoto 37:45 I've never.

Joe Rogan 37:45 I've never heard of it.

Miriam Nakamoto 37:46 Uh-uh.

Joe Rogan 37:47 That's crazy. You think about all the fights that we've seen and that we've never ... We don't, we can't even recall someone who got fucked, who went back and-

Miriam Nakamoto 37:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:56 ... reviewed the tape. "Look, I, I'm hitting him three to one, two to one," and still lose a decision, which has happened.

Miriam Nakamoto 38:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:02 That has happened. There have been some egregious, horrible decisions.

Miriam Nakamoto 38:06 You know what I hate about this is, I, I think that these, the judges don't really think about that it's our lives. Like, if, if I have this loss, because of your error, the next time I fight, I make less money. And I'm already not making that much money. Like, you're not even thinking about how, how, what this does to me, as, as an, as a fighter. You know?

Joe Rogan 38:30 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 38:31 It doesn't, um ...

Joe Rogan 38:33 I don't think that it's they're not thinking about that. I think it's they're not competent. I think when they're ... I think there's certainly corruption and there's certainly people that get bribed. Like, I guarantee that does still probably happen. How do I guarantee probably? I can't, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 38:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:48 But I think more likely than that is you're seeing incompetence.

Miriam Nakamoto 38:54 Mm.

Joe Rogan 38:54 I think you're seeing people that don't have any martial arts training.

Miriam Nakamoto 38:57 Oh, that's fucked up, though.

Joe Rogan 38:58 It is.

Miriam Nakamoto 38:59 It's like, I don't know if that's ego, like they can't admit that they don't know. Oh my God, I had that.

Joe Rogan 39:05 Well, that's a-

Miriam Nakamoto 39:05 I had that.

Joe Rogan 39:06 It's, like, a government job.

Miriam Nakamoto 39:06 I fucking had that at a, a, it was a WBC, um, title defense. And I'm doing c- completely legal throws, uh, Muay Thai throws, and he's telling me, "No more slamming her on the canvas." He's like-

Joe Rogan 39:18 What?

Miriam Nakamoto 39:18 He says, "This ain't no jujitsu."

Joe Rogan 39:21 No.

Miriam Nakamoto 39:21 Literally.

Joe Rogan 39:22 The referee said this?

Miriam Nakamoto 39:23 Cesar Peeples, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:23 (gasps) Cesar Peeples?

Miriam Nakamoto 39:24 (laughs)

Guest (unidentified third person) 39:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:26 You said his name. That's Voldemort.

Miriam Nakamoto 39:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:30 Oh my goodness.

Miriam Nakamoto 39:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:31 Tonya Evinger wins, commission appeal retains-

Miriam Nakamoto 39:34 Oh, there we go.

Joe Rogan 39:34 ... Invicta FC champion. Wait a minute, convi- what is a commission appeal, though?

Guest (unidentified third person) 39:38 Um ...

Joe Rogan 39:38 What does that mean, though? That might be-

Guest (unidentified third person) 39:40 She lost a submission and the other person was the champion for 13 days.

Joe Rogan 39:45 She lost by submission? Huh.

Miriam Nakamoto 39:48 What?

Guest (unidentified third person) 39:49 Yeah. This was in, at the end of '25th, 2016?

Joe Rogan 39:53 How is it overturned to a no contest?

Miriam Nakamoto 39:57 I had that.

Joe Rogan 39:59 So what ha- what happened?

Guest (unidentified third person) 40:01 (clears throat) I googled your question and someone found some-

Joe Rogan 40:03 Mm-hmm.

Guest (unidentified third person) 40:03 ... examples of it happening, and this was one of the three I found.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:06 Huh.

Joe Rogan 40:06 Huh. That's a little different, 'cause that seems like there was an error in the officiating. And so, if, if she lost by submission and then they said it wasn't, it wasn't legit ...

Miriam Nakamoto 40:16 I had a decision overturned.

Joe Rogan 40:18 Did you?

Miriam Nakamoto 40:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:19 Really?

Miriam Nakamoto 40:19 It was, uh ... Fucking what's his name? John Bigga, the big ref.

Joe Rogan 40:27 Okay.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:27 What's his name? John-

Joe Rogan 40:28 Big John McCarthy?

Miriam Nakamoto 40:29 Big John McCarthy.

Joe Rogan 40:30 John Bigga. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 40:30 It's the big, the big guy.

Joe Rogan 40:31 That's your new name, bro.

Guest (unidentified third person) 40:31 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 40:31 The Big John. (laughs) Um, but I kneed her downed opponent in the head.

Joe Rogan 40:36 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:36 But from where I was, I didn't realize that.

Joe Rogan 40:39 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:39 So I kneeed her once and she was like this, so I was like, "Oh, man, let me make sure this is over with." And I kneeled her again.

Joe Rogan 40:45 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:45 But she was, like, 5'11".

Joe Rogan 40:47 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:47 Six feet-ish.

Joe Rogan 40:48 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:48 Jessamyn Duke, super, super long.

Joe Rogan 40:50 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:50 And I didn't realize that she was, her, her knees were on the canvas.

Joe Rogan 40:54 I didn't know-

Miriam Nakamoto 40:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:55 ... Jessamyn Duke fought Muay Thai.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:56 No, this was in MMA.

Joe Rogan 40:57 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 40:58 So I knocked her out, but ... And then I put one for good measure-

Joe Rogan 41:03 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:03 ... unfortunately.

Joe Rogan 41:04 Unfortunately.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:04 And so he gave me the win, and then she appealed, she, uh, yeah, appealed it and then it got overturned to a no contest.

Joe Rogan 41:10 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:11 At least not a DQ. 'Cause I didn't mean to do, I didn't realize.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Right, right.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:16 That's interesting. Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:17 Yeah, that was-

Joe Rogan 41:17 Because she would've-

Miriam Nakamoto 41:18 ... bother.

Joe Rogan 41:18 ... gone out anyway.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:20 Yeah, so I k- I've kind of fucked myself.

Joe Rogan 41:22 Mm.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:22 Like, I gave her a leg to stand on. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:25 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:26 Yeah, that was, that was like a hard one to get over.

Joe Rogan 41:27 What organization was that in?

Miriam Nakamoto 41:28 Invicta.

Joe Rogan 41:29 Mm. How many fights did you have in Invicta?

Miriam Nakamoto 41:32 Oh, three.

Joe Rogan 41:33 Three?

Miriam Nakamoto 41:33 I think.

Joe Rogan 41:34 How many ... Is that all, the most MMA fights you've had?

Miriam Nakamoto 41:37 Uh ...

Joe Rogan 41:37 Oh, you've had more than three, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 41:38 Four.

Joe Rogan 41:39 Four?

Miriam Nakamoto 41:39 I think four.

Joe Rogan 41:41 Now, when you talk about coming back now, and I know you- you're recovering from knee injuries and all this jazz.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:48 Mm.

Joe Rogan 41:48 What are you thinking of-

Miriam Nakamoto 41:48 And chunkiness.

Joe Rogan 41:49 Chunkiness? You look great now.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:50 Yeah, it's so much better. Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 41:52 Is it because of Snackomoto?

Miriam Nakamoto 41:54 (laughs) No. Um ...

Joe Rogan 41:56 Snackomoto, healthy snacks.

Miriam Nakamoto 41:57 Yeah, it ... (sighs) Man, when you're 40 pounds overweight, you smell different.

Joe Rogan 42:01 Do you?

Miriam Nakamoto 42:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:02 What do you smell like?

Miriam Nakamoto 42:02 Just not, not yourself.

Joe Rogan 42:04 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 42:04 Just not yourself. It's just not-

Joe Rogan 42:06 40 pounds is a lot.

Miriam Nakamoto 42:07 It was a lot.

Joe Rogan 42:08 What were you eating?

Miriam Nakamoto 42:09 Or not eating, or drinking all the time.

Joe Rogan 42:12 Oh, you were drinking?

Miriam Nakamoto 42:12 And not working out.

Joe Rogan 42:13 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 42:13 And, like, limping 'cause my knee was so fucked up.

Joe Rogan 42:15 Mm.

Miriam Nakamoto 42:16 Yeah, it was just a lot of, a lot of grief.

Joe Rogan 42:19 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 42:20 Yeah. But, um ...

Joe Rogan 42:22 For cer- someone like you, it's gotta be hard too, because you're so connected to, like, your physical activity.

Miriam Nakamoto 42:29 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:29 So to have that removed and taken away from you ...

Miriam Nakamoto 42:32 Well, that was a ... Remember when we were talking about, like-... of finding out who you really are or who you think you are.

Joe Rogan 42:37 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 42:37 And, like, getting that injury and lo- gaining all that weight, I was like, "Oh, okay, who I think I am, I no longer have access to that."

Joe Rogan 42:44 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 42:44 "So now who am I?" You know? And was, like, spent the last five years trying to work that shit out. So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:50 That happens to a lot of fighters when they retire.

Miriam Nakamoto 42:53 Yeah? Well, good thing it happened already. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:57 Yeah. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 42:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:57 What were you thinking while that time was off? Because you gotta feel like also, you're 42 now.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:02 So this is all-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:03 ... happening at 37, which is, you know, for some fighters-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:06 ... it's towards the end anyway.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:08 Yeah. No, I was doing well at 37.

Joe Rogan 43:10 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:11 I was doing fine.

Joe Rogan 43:11 No, you were doing great.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:13 But, but there's a reality of the clock, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 43:14 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 43:15 When you look at, at least historically-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:17 ... everyone outside of Bernard Hopkins-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:19 Yeah, he's amazing.

Joe Rogan 43:20 Fucking amazing.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:21 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 43:21 46 years old-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:22 ... fighting world-class. I mean, I think he beat ... Did he beat Kelly Pavlik when was, like, 46? I think he boxed Kelly Pavlik up when he was 46.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:32 Nice.

Joe Rogan 43:32 And lost to Joe Smith, I think he was 51 by the, by the time-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:35 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 43:35 ... when he got knocked out and sent out of the cage.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:37 Oh.

Joe Rogan 43:37 Or out of the ring.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:38 Love that guy.

Joe Rogan 43:39 Yeah. No, he's-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:39 He was amazing.

Joe Rogan 43:40 ... he's amazing.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:41 43.

Guest (unidentified third person) 43:42 43.

Joe Rogan 43:42 43 when he fought Pavlik?

Guest (unidentified third person) 43:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:43 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:43 But he's not really fought s- ... He's, like, more conservative now-

Joe Rogan 43:45 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:46 ... when he fights.

Joe Rogan 43:46 Well, he's done.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:47 You know?

Joe Rogan 43:47 But, yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:48 Well, he's just-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:49 The recent stuff.

Joe Rogan 43:50 ... a masterful boxer.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:52 Just absolutely understands everything about boxing and is not gonna put himself in a position-

Miriam Nakamoto 43:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:56 ... where he's gonna get fucked up.

Miriam Nakamoto 43:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:58 Until he couldn't help it anymore. Like the Joe Smith fight-

Miriam Nakamoto 44:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:00 ... it was like, "This has gotta be th- this has gotta be the end."

Miriam Nakamoto 44:03 About, "That's it."

Joe Rogan 44:04 And Kovalev too, it felt like Kovalev was lighting him up. I was like, "Oh, (sighs) I don't wanna watch this." You know?

Miriam Nakamoto 44:09 It hurts when you see somebody so incredible when they're, you know, when it's done.

Joe Rogan 44:15 Yes.

Miriam Nakamoto 44:16 'Cause they just ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:19 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 44:19 You know, it's just like, "You're s- you're so much better than this."

Joe Rogan 44:22 Es-

Miriam Nakamoto 44:22 You know?

Joe Rogan 44:22 ... especially, like, when they're an artist. Like, there's something about-

Miriam Nakamoto 44:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:25 ... when, when you see Chuck go out on his shield, something about it, to me ... (sighs) I don't like seeing it, for sure. I definitely-

Miriam Nakamoto 44:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:32 ... t- would have liked it if he didn't get knocked out again. But one thing that I would l- th- I would like young fighters to see is that this is ... There's consequences to choices-

Miriam Nakamoto 44:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:44 ... in terms of, like, how you approach these exchanges and how you, how you fight.

Miriam Nakamoto 44:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:48 And I'm, I'm of a belief that you should fight the correct way.

Miriam Nakamoto 44:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:53 Don't fight the way that pleases your boss or the crowd. Fight the way y- the way you're supposed to, with your skills.

Miriam Nakamoto 44:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:00 Like, and win by knockout when you can, but don't get knocked out because you're trying to win by knockout-

Miriam Nakamoto 45:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:04 ... and doing something that you're overextending yourself and you're exposing yourself, and you're compromising yourself. Like, that's not wise. And I think, uh, part of fighting has to be wise.

Miriam Nakamoto 45:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:14 It's exciting enough. I mean-

Miriam Nakamoto 45:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:15 ... it's fucking crazy and wild enough, but everybody wants every single second of it to be filled with blood and the crowd cheering, and when they're not ... (hooting)

Miriam Nakamoto 45:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:25 I mean, how many times have we seen fights where it just ... there's a lull in the action for a brief moment where they're clinching, and people start booing?

Miriam Nakamoto 45:31 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:31 And then someone, "Come on. Mix it up, boys. Mix it up." Like, "What do you mean, 'Mix it up'? What the fuck are you d- What do you think they're doing, man? They're fighting."

Miriam Nakamoto 45:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:38 "This is crazy talk."

Miriam Nakamoto 45:40 It's the-

Joe Rogan 45:40 You know? Like, you see it all the time.

Miriam Nakamoto 45:42 Social media brain.

Joe Rogan 45:44 There's a little bit of that.

Miriam Nakamoto 45:45 Impatient. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:46 Well, everybody wants to be a, a huge star too, you know?

Miriam Nakamoto 45:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:49 Everybody wants to do their best to g- gain the most followers and get the most love and get the most-

Miriam Nakamoto 45:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:55 ... applause. You know, there's a right way to fight and a wrong way to fight, and one of the things about watching a guy like Chuck go out on his shield like that, it's like, this is the bed he made. I mean, this is his style. His style is marauder, berserker, move forward. Like, Melvin Manhoef, when you see Melvin go out on his shield, you go, "Look, (door closes) this is Melvin's style."

Miriam Nakamoto 46:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:17 Like, he's either-

Miriam Nakamoto 46:18 You admire somebody's-

Joe Rogan 46:18 ... gonna kill you or get killed.

Miriam Nakamoto 46:19 ... commitment.

Joe Rogan 46:19 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 46:20 Yeah. That's true.

Joe Rogan 46:21 But if you see a guy like Sugar Ray Leonard-

Miriam Nakamoto 46:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:24 ... and he gets KO'd, you're like, "Oh, Jesus." Like, "Stop."

Miriam Nakamoto 46:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:27 "You can't do it anymore."

Miriam Nakamoto 46:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:28 You're not really ... You can't, you can't move the way that made you successful. Pernell Whitaker, someone like that, if you see them, for, for whatever reason, they can't move right. Do you remember Pernell Whitaker?

Miriam Nakamoto 46:38 I know the name, but I haven't watched his fights.

Joe Rogan 46:40 (sighs) Damn, woman.

Miriam Nakamoto 46:41 (laughs) That's why I was just laughing. I'm like, "Man." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:44 He was a defensive genius, Olympic gold medalist '76.

Miriam Nakamoto 46:48 I'm, I'm terrible. So people will ask me-

Joe Rogan 46:51 '84.

Miriam Nakamoto 46:51 They will ask me about the Wai Kru Ra Muay.

Joe Rogan 46:54 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 46:54 And I'm just like, "I don't know. It's both."

Joe Rogan 46:59 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 46:59 Or they'll ask me, "How do you win a Muay Thai fight?" And I go, "I don't know."

Joe Rogan 47:04 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 47:04 "Do more damage." (laughs) Like, I don't fucking know. "What scores higher, elbow or knee or punch?" "I don't know. Uh, just fucking win."

Joe Rogan 47:12 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 47:13 Like, I have no idea.

Joe Rogan 47:14 Were you ever thinking what scores higher? Are you thinking-

Miriam Nakamoto 47:16 No.

Joe Rogan 47:16 ... you're trying to smash?

Miriam Nakamoto 47:16 I'm just thinking, "I'm gonna dominate this motherfucker."

Joe Rogan 47:18 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 47:18 "This is my space."

Joe Rogan 47:19 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 47:20 Like, "This is my, you know ..." Yeah. Square, circle, or whatever.

Joe Rogan 47:24 Is that how you think about it? "This is mine."

Miriam Nakamoto 47:26 Uh, well, yeah, 'cause like you, you, you dominate the space, and, like, it's about territory, you know? And fighting's territory. And you start and it's even, and they have th- their side, and you have th- your side, and you take the territory away. And you want them to feel like it's not their sp- space anymore. Like, that's how you, you impose your will. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 47:46 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 47:47 Yeah. It's that simple. I don't know. I don't know about fucking points and this and that, and it's shit.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Do you-

Miriam Nakamoto 47:54 I have no idea.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Do you ever teach?

Miriam Nakamoto 47:56 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:58 Do you teach private lessons? Do you teach classes? Like, what do you teach?

Miriam Nakamoto 48:01 A little bit, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:02 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 48:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:02 Do you, do you ever work with fighters?

Miriam Nakamoto 48:04 Um, I have, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:05 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 48:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:06 When you do it, do you find that looking at it in a way where you're trying to explain it to someone who's also trying to do what you do-

Miriam Nakamoto 48:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:15 ... that it helps you understand what you do?

Miriam Nakamoto 48:17 Um ... Yeah. Yeah. But I definitely don't ... (sighs)

Joe Rogan 48:25 You don't like it?

Miriam Nakamoto 48:26 No, no, I, I, I still, like, this conversation's the same. Like, it's, it's more about, like, the tone you're setting-

Joe Rogan 48:32 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 48:32 ... rather than the weapons you're using.

Joe Rogan 48:35 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 48:36 ... to me, because it- it's- it's really just, like, there is that space, and it's your job to own it.

Joe Rogan 48:42 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 48:43 You know? Like, you own the center of the ring. You, you dictate where they go. You take things away. You know? It's like a, it's a ex-convict trying to get a job. The door is just shut in their face, shut in their face. Everywhere they turn, shut in their face, shut in their face.

Joe Rogan 48:56 That's an interesting way to look at it.

Miriam Nakamoto 48:57 Like, that's how you wanna make them feel.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Like you're a parole officer?

Miriam Nakamoto 48:59 Like, I don't, I don't want (laughs) , I don't want-

Joe Rogan 49:03 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 49:03 ... an ex-conomic to not be able to get a job.

Joe Rogan 49:04 Right. I know what you're saying.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:05 But in the ring-

Joe Rogan 49:06 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:06 ... you wanna take shit away from somebody and make them feel very discouraged.

Joe Rogan 49:09 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:10 Yeah. Like, "You don't belong here anymore, and you know that."

Joe Rogan 49:14 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:14 You know?

Joe Rogan 49:14 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:14 Like, that's what you want them to feel.

Joe Rogan 49:17 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:17 Yeah. "And you don't wanna fight me again."

Joe Rogan 49:20 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 49:20 That's another thing you wanna make them feel. You know? Like, that, there's just these things-

Joe Rogan 49:24 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:24 ... that you gotta understand what you're doing there. But, uh, insofar as, like, what score is higher and what this and th- I don't fucking know. I have no fucking idea. It just goes off of, like, how, how my opponent is reacting to what I'm doing to them-

Joe Rogan 49:38 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:38 ... how they're reacting to me, and that's what I'm gonna throw, or where they move, and that's what I'm gonna throw. I don't think about, like, "Oh, is this gonna score... Should I throw this or this? Which will score higher?"

Joe Rogan 49:48 Right. You can't.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:49 I don't know. That's fucking retarded.

Joe Rogan 49:51 Yeah, it's not-

Miriam Nakamoto 49:51 I think.

Joe Rogan 49:52 Yeah. It's not a wise way to think.

Miriam Nakamoto 49:55 Mm.

Joe Rogan 49:55 I don't think. I think, especially in something like Muay Thai, which so many fights win by knockout, so many fights are won by knockout-

Miriam Nakamoto 50:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:02 ... and it's such a, such a devastating art. You know, when you think about j- just having the ability to kick and knee and punch and elbow and all these different weapons you're using?

Miriam Nakamoto 50:11 I think Muay Thai doesn't hurt that much. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:13 What does that mean? What does that mean-

Miriam Nakamoto 50:16 I mean, like-

Joe Rogan 50:16 "I think Muay Thai doesn't hurt that much."

Miriam Nakamoto 50:18 Well, so-

Joe Rogan 50:18 We were talking about, earlier, about breaking your elbow on someone's head. (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 50:21 Yeah, but that didn't hurt at the time. At the time, it didn't hurt.

Joe Rogan 50:25 Well, with adrenaline. The adrenaline.

Miriam Nakamoto 50:26 I don't know. I mean, it just is like, it just, bam, and I'm like, "Whoa, she's bleeding. It's crazy." And the ref's, like, pulling me off her, and I don't think about how it felt. I don't think about, you know, like when I got my ribs cracked from a kick in a Muay Thai fight. I thought it was liver, so I was like, I feel my pain, I'm like, "No." And then I'm like, "Fuck you, I'm in the fight." And you pull yourself back outta that pain-

Joe Rogan 50:47 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 50:48 ... 'cause you don't wanna fall into the pain-

Joe Rogan 50:49 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 50:49 ... 'cause it's hard to climb back up. It's like swimming up, up s-, um, upstream.

Joe Rogan 50:53 Mm.

Miriam Nakamoto 50:53 Right? So you kinda, can't fall into that fucking pain.

Joe Rogan 50:55 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 50:56 And, uh, but it's, it's not, it's, I mean, it's banged up, but it's not that bad.

Joe Rogan 51:03 Well, you have a tolerance for it.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:05 Yeah, I just, like, I mean, your shins will be bruised up. You know? I don't... I mean, I-

Joe Rogan 51:11 You put a picture up on Instagram once of your legs, like-

Miriam Nakamoto 51:14 Oh, no, that hurt.

Joe Rogan 51:15 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:16 No, that really hurt.

Joe Rogan 51:17 What day was that-

Miriam Nakamoto 51:17 That took weeks.

Joe Rogan 51:18 ... after the fight, that your legs were that fucked up?

Miriam Nakamoto 51:20 No, no, no, that was right before I fought.

Joe Rogan 51:22 It was right before you fought?

Miriam Nakamoto 51:23 Yeah, so I had three fights, and that one was right before the last one.

Joe Rogan 51:26 Oh, you had three fights in a day.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:28 No, I had three fights over five days.

Joe Rogan 51:31 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:31 Which made it worse, actually, because if the three fights had been in one day, then the, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 51:35 Jesus Christ.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:37 What the fucking-

Miriam Nakamoto 51:37 So they had a day between each, and so the pain would set in, and the bruising-

Joe Rogan 51:41 Was this a Muay Thai tournament?

Miriam Nakamoto 51:41 ... would set in. Yeah, it was IFMA.

Joe Rogan 51:42 Was it in Thailand?

Miriam Nakamoto 51:43 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 51:44 Oh, they're crazy over there.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:46 It was cool. I liked it.

Joe Rogan 51:47 That's wild, though.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:48 But that shit hurt.

Joe Rogan 51:49 I'm sure.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:49 That shit hurt for weeks. Like, I couldn't roll over in bed.

Joe Rogan 51:52 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:52 Like, I couldn't, I couldn't, you know how you stack your legs-

Joe Rogan 51:54 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:54 ... and you shnuggle your, up in your-

Joe Rogan 51:56 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:56 ... position?

Joe Rogan 51:57 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 51:57 Couldn't. I had to, and, like, put a pillow in between them. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:02 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 52:02 There was, the bruising was behind on the calves.

Joe Rogan 52:05 Whoosh.

Miriam Nakamoto 52:05 Like, it was, it was, I got kicked in the front, yeah?

Joe Rogan 52:08 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 52:08 But there was so much blood, f- you know, uh, internal bleeding from the bruising, it went to the back, to my calves, so it actually s- is cir- encapsulated my whole leg in bruising, and then it went down, um, my ankles, both sides, and then down to my toes.

Joe Rogan 52:22 So when you-

Miriam Nakamoto 52:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:23 ... you p- took the pictures, that was you in between the second and third fight?

Miriam Nakamoto 52:28 That was the, right before the third fight. I was waiting at, it was the King's Cup, s- so it was the King's birthday.

Joe Rogan 52:34 There you go.

Miriam Nakamoto 52:34 Yeah. Yeah, so that's-

Joe Rogan 52:36 Fuck.

Miriam Nakamoto 52:36 ... that's actually ... Yeah, and you can see my ankle, and it actually went underneath my toes.

Joe Rogan 52:41 Oh. And this is before you have to fight again?

Miriam Nakamoto 52:43 That was ... Both legs were like that.

Joe Rogan 52:45 Yeah?

Miriam Nakamoto 52:45 Both were like this.

Joe Rogan 52:46 And you have to fight again?

Miriam Nakamoto 52:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:47 That is-

Miriam Nakamoto 52:48 And this, so do you know Wooden Man, Chongsonon?

Joe Rogan 52:50 Uh-huh.

Miriam Nakamoto 52:50 That's him rubbing me. And so he tried to give me the Muay Thai, they give you-

Joe Rogan 52:54 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 52:54 ... the pre-fight massage with the Thai on it?

Joe Rogan 52:56 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 52:56 He couldn't fucking touch me, it was so bad.

Joe Rogan 52:59 How the fuck did you fight like this?

Miriam Nakamoto 53:00 I don't know, but I did.

Joe Rogan 53:02 That is so insane.

Miriam Nakamoto 53:03 Yeah, it w-

Joe Rogan 53:04 Your legs are so banged up. The fact that you fought-

Miriam Nakamoto 53:07 Yeah. Yeah. And it, and so, like, mentally I was just like, "Wow, this is, this is, this is happening. This is, I'm, I'm gonna do this." And I'd look at my legs, "Okay, okay, this is happening. This is, this is, okay." And yeah, I finally got-

Joe Rogan 53:20 And then once you started fighting, what did you feel?

Miriam Nakamoto 53:23 I don't think about that. Like, sometimes you get kicked and it gets, it goes through, like it gets through your force shield, you know? Like, you kinda put up this, like ... I don't know, when I fight it's like, I'm fighting and psh-

Joe Rogan 53:34 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 53:34 ... thing, you know, it's a force shield-

Joe Rogan 53:36 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 53:36 ... in a sense, you know? Um, a- and, uh, sometimes if it hurts enough, like when I got my ribs cracked, I felt that.

Joe Rogan 53:45 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 53:45 Like it went through, and then it, like, disrupted my force shield. And so sometimes, uh, something would go through, like a s- good, solid kick.

Joe Rogan 53:51 Your force shield.

Miriam Nakamoto 53:51 So my force field.

Joe Rogan 53:52 So you have-

Miriam Nakamoto 53:52 Force shield activate.

Joe Rogan 53:53 ... your attitude, your mindset-

Miriam Nakamoto 53:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:56 ... is like you're fighting, you're, you're ready to accept all sorts of things.

Miriam Nakamoto 54:00 Yeah, like, "I could die. Or even harder, I could kill someone."

Joe Rogan 54:06 Do you think it'd be harder to kill someone than to die?

Miriam Nakamoto 54:08 Uh, so, no-

Joe Rogan 54:09 Harder on you?

Miriam Nakamoto 54:10 U- yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:11 Yeah?

Miriam Nakamoto 54:12 Because then you think about their loved ones.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Mm.

Miriam Nakamoto 54:16 So think about all the people that loved you. We fight. Think about all the people that love you, right?

Joe Rogan 54:20 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 54:20 And so when we fight, I didn't, I didn't break any rules, but I killed you.

Joe Rogan 54:27 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 54:27 Think about all your loved ones, everybody that loves you that's attached to you. Think about that. All of that pain.

Joe Rogan 54:36 It's a lot of fucking pain.

Miriam Nakamoto 54:36 'Cause of what I did to you-

Joe Rogan 54:38 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 54:38 ... even though I didn't break any rules.

Joe Rogan 54:40 Have you ever been in a promotion where someone died?

Miriam Nakamoto 54:43 Mm-mm.But that's heavy, right?

Joe Rogan 54:46 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 54:46 And I don't, I think probably why a lot of fighters... I, I've noticed, like, there's, there's... I don't think a l- the majority of fighters, um, look at what they do with the gravity that, that it deserves. You know? Like, you could kill somebody. Like, you need to think about that and be okay with that. Not okay, but just understand, like, all right, that could happen and I'm gonna be con- I'm consciously knowing this and choosing to go forward. They just think, "Oh, I'm gonna fight. It'll be fun. It'll..." You know, whatever, or, "It'll be hard or I'm gonna, like..." Whatever. They don't think about these things.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Is this something that you thought about when you were young?

Miriam Nakamoto 55:29 Yeah, before I really got into it.

Joe Rogan 55:31 So you, this is, uh, uh, something you've been contemplating even before you started fighting? You were aware of all the possibilities?

Miriam Nakamoto 55:39 Yeah. I... Okay. All right, I'll say it. So I was, um, I was, uh, about 28, I think, and I don't think I had my pro boxing debut yet, and I took some mushrooms, (laughs) and I was thinking, uh... Somewhere along the trip I started thinking about fighting and I started thinking about, like, what could happen to me. And then I started thinking about the death of me, and then I started thinking about what could happen to my opponent, like, what's worse than that? And I thought about... I could see, like, if somebody I fight, and I saw all the, like, like, lines of gold thread attached into them, like, uh, from their loved ones, and then all the lines got snipped-

Joe Rogan 56:24 Whoa.

Miriam Nakamoto 56:24 ... when they died. Yeah, I saw this on this mushroom trip and I was just like, fuck. And so then when I decided to fight, there's more intent, you know, and more commitment and more resolve.

Joe Rogan 56:38 That's heavy.

Miriam Nakamoto 56:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:41 But, but that is what it is, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 56:43 Mm-hmm. And that's where the, I think, real... there's more power.

Joe Rogan 56:48 To people that have never fought before and people who don't understand fighting, they, they say, "I don't get the appeal. I don't know why you watch it." The, the reason that pe- one of the reasons, there's many reasons, but one of the reasons why people enjoy participating in it so much is because there's so much risk and it's so dangerous-

Miriam Nakamoto 57:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:06 ... and it's so difficult, so unbelievably difficult to prepare, unbelievably difficult to put yourself in the proper mind state-

Miriam Nakamoto 57:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:13 ... especially to be a champion, to, to, to-

Miriam Nakamoto 57:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:15 ... beat the best of the best, to get the top of the heap.

Miriam Nakamoto 57:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:19 That once you do succeed, like, explain that feeling to people. Explain that feeling when they raise your hand and put that belt around your waist and the crowd is cheering.

Miriam Nakamoto 57:32 I'm kinda weird 'cause I actually get depressed.

Joe Rogan 57:36 You get depressed?

Miriam Nakamoto 57:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:37 You get depressed when you win?

Miriam Nakamoto 57:39 Uh, at times, yeah. Or, or, I'm just... I think for me, what I've come to realize about myself is that it's about authentically expressing myself in the moment, and I think with a lot of my fights I wasn't being honest. I didn't take my heart and cut it open and pour it out on the mat or the canvas. I played it safe. I didn't go in for the knockout. I didn't slip a punching counter and, and get inside. I stayed outside. Or, when I was inside, I would clinch up an elbow and knee, you know? So, um, for me, it hurts when I'm being inauthentic, and I know that with pretty much all of my Muay Thai fights, I, I wasn't. (sighs)

Joe Rogan 58:24 But is that the case? Or is it you being hyper-critical of yourself?

Miriam Nakamoto 58:29 Always.

Joe Rogan 58:30 Always?

Miriam Nakamoto 58:31 Always. So, so, I've, I've actually... You just had Kieran on, and he can attest to this. I've, I've come out of fights and, and won the world title, done a great job, and I go into the gym the next week and I go, "Kieran! This was, uh, stupid. I looked stupid. I didn't do this right. This is fucked up. I can't fight like that again." Like, "We gotta fix that." And I'm just like that.

Joe Rogan 58:52 But that's what makes a champion, though.

Miriam Nakamoto 58:54 Yeah. But mine was unhealthy. So mine was more-

Joe Rogan 58:58 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 58:58 ... I think, I think I'm more of a champion now than I ever was when I was actively fighting and when I was, um... I, I was trying to be good enough instead of just focusing on... (sighs) how can I say this? My, my, my pursuit of world titles wasn't, wasn't about... It, it was, uh, in defense of something that was told to me when I was growing up. So it's like, "I'm a world champion so you can't tell..." That's not true 'cause I'm a world champion.

Joe Rogan 59:40 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 59:40 So that's what the was about for me, so-

Joe Rogan 59:42 So it was about making up for a lack of love, a lack of appreciation-

Miriam Nakamoto 59:46 Or just-

Joe Rogan 59:46 ... for abuse.

Miriam Nakamoto 59:47 Yeah, a lack of, like, "I'm not good enough so I'm-

Joe Rogan 59:49 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 59:49 ... gonna win this world title and prove that I-

Joe Rogan 59:51 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 59:51 ... am good enough. So F you." And that's not a, a pure place to express yourself from.

Joe Rogan 59:58 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 59:58 You know? Like, now, um, I'm more of a martial artist than I've ever been, and I'm more of a teacher and a student than I've ever been, and I'm more of a champion than I've ever been.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 How are you more of a champion than you've ever been?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:00:10 It's the way, uh, my outlook and the way, uh, I l- learn, the way I attack new information, the way... how malleable I am, um, uh, how quickly I take things on, you know? How driven, you know? It's easy to be... It's a lot easier to be a champion when you have the six-pack and the muscles and the youth and the everything to back that up. But when you have those things taken away from you, then what is a champion? What is it without those things? It's your heart, it's your desire, it's your resolve, it's your mind.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 But using this expression champion, like, what, what, why m- why champion?... because you're, if you're a champion, you're competing against someone to become a champion. That's what makes you a champion.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:00:58 I compete against myself.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Right. So-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:02 To do it better, to learn it faster, to-

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 ... you have the better mastery-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 ... over the things that you feel held you back and limited your potential when you actually were a world champion kickboxer.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:12 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:13 And so now, it's more about self-expression.

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 Balance. You're a more balanced person?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:18 Yeah. Definitely.

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:19 And now it's the pursuit of self-expression and it's the pur- pursuit of authenticity. Um, and, like, finding that moment to ride the razor's edge instead of playing it safe and staying outside, but not having a satisfying fight.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:32 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 Even though you won, not having satisfying fights-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 ... because you, you could feel the flaws.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:38 Yeah. I, well, I could just feel how I was holding back.

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:42 And it's like, you can feel when you're in the zone and you go for it and 100% commitment and you, you're just in it. You know, you're in it, and so authentic.

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 What fights, what fights have you had where you really felt satisfied?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:01:52 Uh ... I, I would say the fight after I fought Julie. Yeah. She was, uh, I went up in-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Julie?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:01 ... Kitchen. Yeah. I went up in weight to fight her. She, she, um ... I went up to 140. It was Champion of Champions. She had 58 fights, I think 14 world titles. I had 14 fights at the time and six world titles I think. And, um ...

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 That's pretty crazy. 14 fights, six world titles.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:21 Yeah. Yeah. I, I started late.

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 You know, Kirian said that you were the most talented person he's ever worked with.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:28 I would agree.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:29 I would. I would because it ... So what I-

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 That's high praise.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:34 What I noticed-

Joe Rogan 1:02:34 Kirian Fitzgibbons? I mean, that's really-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 That's amazing stuff.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:38 Well, I'm malleable and I'm really dry ... Like I'm like, "No, that's not right."

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:43 "Do it again. This doesn't feel right. Do it again. What am I ... What are you doing? What am I doing? What does it look like? What should it feel like? Where's my pressure? Where's the leverage? What's this?" Da da da da. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:02:51 Like, I'm like, I'm like that. You know? "No, it's not right. Let's do it again. Oh, that was perfect, but let's move on to the next thing."

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 And this sort of level of dissatisfaction with your performances though, don't you think that that's ultimately what makes you s- such a champion in the first place? Like, you ... Alexander Gustafsson had put it best once when he was talking about one of his training camps. He's like, "This is the, the life of a professional athlete. You're just never satisfied." He says, "If you achieve ... If you want to achieve greatness, you're never satisfied."

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:19 Yeah. No. I agree, but not with the way I was doing it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 So you were doing it, but you were doing it in a manic, almost unhealthy way?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:29 Like I could never just give myself that.

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:31 I could never be like, "All right, that was great. This needs adjustments."

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:34 "All right, so here's the game plan." You know? Like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:36 "Oh, here ... You know, you did this, this is a accomplishment. Uh, or, you know, you, you conquered this, you took on this new skill. All right. Let's give yourself that credit."

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:46 It was always, "Oh, never good enough. Oh, never good enough."

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:49 "Uh, never, never good enough." You know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 But is that never good enough fuel? Like is that thought, like y- never good enough, never good enough-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:55 No, it's definitely fuel.

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 It is, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:57 But it's not-

Joe Rogan 1:03:57 Not healthy.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:03:58 There's, there's, there's much-

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 It's crap.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:00 ... more environmentally friendly fuel. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:02 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:02 Like, this is, like, con- pollutants.

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:05 It's pollutants.

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 And, and as far as your life goes, right?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:10 Yeah, no, so, um, I am working with ... I am back at CSA working with Kirian.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:16 You know? But I told him, um, for, for Muay Thai, I actually told Dave and Kirian this. Did I yet tell Kirian? Well, I guess I'm telling him now. If I were to have a Muay Thai fight, obviously I'm not gonna, you know ... I would, I wouldn't be with anybody else.

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:35 Like, he's ... That's where the success has been, that's where the formula works. I'm not gonna change that. But, um, now I'm also over at, uh, Guerrilla Jiu-Jitsu with Dave Camarillo.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:46 And so-

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 Excellent coach.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:47 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Genius.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:49 Oh my ... Fucking Jedi knight, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:51 He's a Jedi knight.

Joe Rogan 1:04:52 Great guy, too.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:04:53 Holy shit. Yeah. He's amazing. He's amazing. Um, but now I get to learn from him. And so that, um-

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 Is he making you wear a gi?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:03 Uh, he's not making me.

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:06 But I, I do and I would-

Joe Rogan 1:05:08 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:08 ... and have no problem with it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:10 Um, he definitely says, like, I need to go to classes, which I absolutely agree with. You know, as a high level striker or any kind of striker going into MMA, you need to go to the fucking classes and learn-

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:18 ... to swim in the deep end.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:20 You have to and just be like, "All right. This sucks."

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:22 "I'm just getting, like, fucking armpit, uh, suffocated. It's fine."

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 Right.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:26 "Just deal with it." Um, but, uh, with Dave, I can feel myself changing into the fighter that I want to be.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 How often are you doing jiu-jitsu?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:38 Um, well, right now I've been traveling, (laughs) so not as much. But I was doing it, like, every day. Yeah. Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 And with your knee, I know you have, like, a limited amount of mobility with one of your knees.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 Does that get in the way of anything?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:51 Um, it does. I definitely have to, like-

Joe Rogan 1:05:53 Do you put a brace on it or anything?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:54 No.

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 No?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:54 I just, uh, communicate clearly with my training partners.

Joe Rogan 1:05:58 Mm-hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:05:58 So funny thing is I love heel hooks (laughs) and I've had four knee surgeries.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Hmm.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:06 Isn't that weird?

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 Well-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:08 It's a little weird.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 They're-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:09 That's-

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 ... effective as fuck.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:10 That's the only submission I go for.

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 Really?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:13 Heel hook, knee bar.

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 Well, listen, it's a very good submission. I mean ...

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 It's revolutionized jiu-jitsu-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 ... really over the last-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 ... few years. The leg lock game has really taken over.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:23 Yeah. You think of, like, if somebody had that many surgeries, you'd be like, "No, I'm not fucking with that."

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 Well, how about John Donahere?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:28 But I'm actually ... I'm like getting in there.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 Like John Donahere has a fake hip.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 He's got a fake knee.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:32 Oh, wow. Really?

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 His, his whole body's getting replaced and, you know-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:36 He's the bionic man.

Joe Rogan 1:06:37 ... and he's one of the main minds at the head of the leg lock revolution.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:40 Eddie Cummings being one of them, and, and then a lot of the students, you know?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:44 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:06:44 Garry Tonon, of course, and-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 There's so many really good jiu-jitsu guys now that are leg lock specialists. It's fascinating. Craig Jones. There's, like, a whole new crew of up-and-coming guys that are leg lock specialists.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:57 I love it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 Yeah, it's really interesting.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:06:59 I love it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 It's really interesting, because all the years that I did jujitsu, it took, like, this transition.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:07:05 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 Like, which only took place within the last decade, like less than a decade, where it really started ramping up. Back in the day, if you did a juji- if you were in a jujitsu tournament and you did a leg lock or a heel hook, the crowd would boo. They would fucking scream. They would scream-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:07:19 It's clear.

Joe Rogan 1:07:20 ... even if you won by tap. Like, if you went to the worlds and you heel hooked somebody, people would freak the fuck out.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:07:25 That's so dumb.

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 It's crazy. That's what it used to be. It used to be that they thought of it as cheap. They thought leg locks and heel hooks and ankle locks, they thought those were cheap moves.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:07:35 But it's literally a part of the body.

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 Well, it, what it is, is people that didn't understand the defense, so they would move the wrong way and get their legs blown apart. And nobody wants to get their legs blown apart in training.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:07:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:48 So they would discourage it in training and discourage it in competition because it was ripping people's legs apart.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:07:52 Yeah, that's retarded.

Joe Rogan 1:07:53 Well, it's just a lack of understanding. Look, your shoulder is a very complex joint. We have zero problem manipulating the shit out of people's shoulders.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:02 Mm-hmm. It's a weak joint too.

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 It's a weak joint, tears them apart.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:05 Complex and weak.

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 And we have no problem with that. Nobody-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:09 ... nobody says, "We gotta outlaw the mores."

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:10 Crying about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 Yeah. Y- y- y- somehow or another, if you fuck your shoulder up where you can't wipe your ass, that's okay.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:17 But if you fuck your knee up where you can't walk good-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:19 It, like, sucks. Can you imagine if you couldn't wipe your own ass? Well, not a problem for you.

Joe Rogan 1:08:23 Why? Oh, for this-

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:24 Your bae.

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 ... with my super toilet?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:26 (laughs)

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:27 Those, those toilets are awesome.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:28 I was gonna take a picture of that-

Joe Rogan 1:08:29 Yeah.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:29 ... and post that on Instagram.

Joe Rogan 1:08:30 Go ahead, feel free.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 I tell people about them. They're amazing.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:33 (laughs) That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:08:33 They keep you clean. And plus, it's comfy. It's like a warm seat, it's heated.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:37 As soon as I sat down, I was like-

Joe Rogan 1:08:39 Like, "Ah."

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:39 "Oh."

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 "Nice, right?"

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:40 "Oh."

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 "Yeah."

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:41 It's a good life.

Joe Rogan 1:08:42 Oh. It's a g- This is the good life.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:44 Yeah. Uh, it's weird, like, what ... I mean, why is it okay to yank on someone's neck? I mean, I don't know so many dudes with fucked up necks. I mean, it's like, all of jujitsu is bad for your body.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:53 I have, I have fucking, uh, a tingling going down my arm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:56 Right now?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:57 When I sit in certain positions.

Joe Rogan 1:08:58 Oh.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:08:59 From, like, just wrestling and jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 1:09:00 Did you get a, a MRI?

Miriam Nakamoto 1:09:01 Never happened. Uh, no. It-

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 Well, I guarantee I know what that is.

Miriam Nakamoto 1:09:05 It's a pinched nerve.