Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #53 with Jeff Novitzky

Jeff Novitzky is the Vice President of Athlete Health and Performance for the UFC.

Joe RoganhostJeff Novitzkyguest
Dec 26, 20181h 50mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

USADA’s Jeff Novitzky Explains Jon Jones’ Controversial Drug-Test Fallout

  1. Joe Rogan and UFC VP of Athlete Health and Performance Jeff Novitzky dissect Jon Jones’ Turinabol metabolite findings, explaining why regulators and anti‑doping scientists did not treat them as a new doping offense.
  2. Novitzky walks through the science of long‑term metabolites, picogram-level detection, and the emerging evidence of a “pulsing” effect that can cause old drug remnants to intermittently reappear in tests.
  3. They contrast the Jones case with other UFC anti-doping precedents, discuss Nevada’s refusal and California’s decision to license the fight, and address public skepticism about favoritism and system integrity.
  4. The conversation also covers supplement contamination, future changes to UFC/USADA protocols, and the need for fair, science-based anti-doping enforcement that still protects clean athletes.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Jones’ recent positives were treated as residual, not new doping.

USADA and independent lab experts concluded that the picogram-level M3 metabolite results in 2018 were leftover from an earlier exposure (pre‑July 2017), not evidence of re‑administration, due to the absence of parent drug and short/medium-term metabolites.

Ultra‑sensitive tests can detect drug remnants long after any benefit.

Modern WADA labs can now detect down to single-digit picograms—levels so tiny (fractions of a grain of salt split tens of millions of times) that they may reflect trace residues with no performance-enhancing effect, raising fairness concerns.

A ‘pulsing’ effect in chlorinated compounds complicates interpretation.

Studies on similar chlorinated drugs like clomiphene show metabolites disappearing and reappearing (“pulsing”) over many months, likely due to storage in adipose tissue and release during weight cuts or body-composition changes—mirroring what’s seen in Jones’ profile.

Regulators must balance optics with due process and science.

Nevada sought a public hearing and delayed, citing optics and caution, while California—already deeply familiar with the Jones file—accepted the expert opinions and licensed the fight, illustrating how process and familiarity shape regulatory decisions.

Strict liability remains, but intent and source still matter for sanctions.

Cases like Jones, Barnett, Romero, Means, and Mir show that athletes are responsible for what’s in their body, yet arbitration outcomes and sanction lengths hinge on proving (or failing to prove) intentional use versus contamination or inadvertent ingestion.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

“There is no evidence that DHCMT has been re-administered.”

Jeff Novitzky, citing Dr. Daniel Eichner (WADA-accredited lab director)

“All evidence available to me leads me to conclude that the violation was not intended nor could it have enhanced the athlete’s performance.”

Jeff Novitzky, quoting arbitrator Richard McLaren on Jon Jones’ 2017 case

“When you’re getting down to detection of one, single-digit picograms, I have a concern… Are we going to talk about environmental contamination?”

Jeff Novitzky

“If there was any indication that there would be a benefit from him, even though it technically wasn’t a violation, I’m not gonna stand by while anybody licenses that guy to fight.”

Jeff Novitzky

“We’ve got to have a path of redemption for people… If he didn’t do anything, folks, you gotta stop saying he’s cheating.”

Joe Rogan

Background and timeline of Jon Jones’ 2017–2018 positive testsScience of Turinabol, long-term metabolites, and ‘pulsing’ excretionUltra-sensitive testing (picograms) and the risk of over-detectionRegulatory decisions: Nevada vs. California commissions on licensing JonesComparisons to other UFC cases (Frank Mir, Josh Barnett, Yoel Romero, Tim Means)Supplement contamination and efforts to create “approved” supplement standardsPlanned changes to UFC/USADA testing volume and threshold policies

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome