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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #54 with Din Thomas

Joe is joined by co-star of "Dana White's Lookin' For A Fight" and coach at American Top Team, Din Thomas.

Joe RoganhostDin ThomasguestJamie VernonguestRobin BlackguestProducer/Researcher (likely Jamie Vernon)guest
Jan 8, 20192h 53mWatch on YouTube ↗

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  1. 0:00 – 1:16

    Pre-show banter: photos, Elon’s blowtorch, and craving mental quiet

    1. JR

      ... four, three, two, one. Dude, I didn't even get a picture of you. I ought to get a picture. Would you go with a, the blowtorch or the samurai sword in front of the flag? What do you think?

    2. DT

      Um, I don't know. What does everybody else do?

    3. JR

      (clicks tongue) They mix it up. Some, some folks go blowtorch. It's that Elon Musk blowtorch.

    4. DT

      I'm going Elon Musk.

    5. JR

      That's a good move.

    6. DT

      Yeah, I, yeah-

    7. JR

      I like that.

    8. DT

      You know, why wouldn't ... I want to be like E- Elon Musk.

    9. JR

      (laughs)

    10. DT

      You know what I'm saying? That's, it's-

    11. JR

      I don't want to be that smart.

    12. DT

      Why not?

    13. JR

      I think that's bad for you.

    14. DT

      Nah.

    15. JR

      When I was talking to him, and, you know, like one of the ... There was a moment where I said, like, "What's it like being you?" And he's like, (clicks tongue) "It's not easy." (laughs) Like, he was l- it was like talking about, like, the thoughts that are bouncing around in his head. I think his head is like a, like a runaway train. Like, his, his brain's just constantly going.

    16. DT

      Well, yeah, I mean, but, but to be that smart, man, you can come up with anything. You could make anything-

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. DT

      ... to make things work for you in life.

    19. JR

      Well, that is true, I guess. I guess. I don't know, man. I want a little peace and quiet.

    20. DT

      What, like-

    21. JR

      I like being kinda dumb.

    22. DT

      Do you really?

    23. JR

      And just relax.

    24. DT

      'Cause ignorance is bliss. You can just say that.

    25. JR

      Just, oh, you can just kick back and relax sometimes, you know? I don't ... Sometimes I just like to come home, put the headphones on, just lay back on the couch and listen to music. Just, just listen to some music. I don't wanna think about having to fix the environment.

  2. 1:16 – 3:07

    Introversion, performing socially, and Din’s TV chemistry on 'Looking for a Fight'

    1. DT

      Yeah. I mean, I, I see that too. I mean, I'm the same way. Don't get ... I'm an introvert, so, like, don't get me twisted.

    2. JR

      Are you really?

    3. DT

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      Really?

    5. DT

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      I would've never thought that.

    7. DT

      Really?

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. DT

      Yeah, nah, I just ... I can play the role though. You know? I can play the role. I mean, that's all a part of, like, life.

    10. JR

      Well, I think you're both. 'Cause, like, you're really good at being friendly, and, like, you're a fun guy. Like, like, you're extra ... You have extrovert qualities.

    11. DT

      Well, you need those to survive in life.

    12. JR

      But is that what it is? Like, you prefer to be introverted?

    13. DT

      Yeah, I prefer to be introverted. Like, I l-

    14. JR

      Really?

    15. DT

      Like, I love my alone, quiet time, where I just sit back and chill.

    16. JR

      But you seem to love being out and being around people too.

    17. DT

      Yeah, I ain't gonna lie. I love that too.

    18. JR

      Yeah, you love that too.

    19. DT

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      It's like-

    21. DT

      Yeah, I don't know, it's kinda weird.

    22. JR

      You're ... Well, that's good. That's a balance.

    23. DT

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      That's a healthy thing.

    25. DT

      Well, because y- you know, in, in order to survive in life, you have to be out there.

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. DT

      Like, 'cause you ain't gonna make money sitting at home listening to music.

    28. JR

      That's true.

    29. DT

      So you gotta get out there-

    30. JR

      Right.

  3. 3:07 – 5:52

    Brooklyn card prep and the Greg Hardy controversy (plus CTE/TBI realities)

    1. DT

      So Long ... I mean, the epitome of Long Island. I'm going up there. I'm gonna go up there next week and hang out with them actually.

    2. JR

      Yeah, that's cool.

    3. DT

      Yeah, I'm gonna find a ... find time. 'Cause I'm going up for Brooklyn, so I'm gonna find time then.

    4. JR

      Oh, that's right.

    5. DT

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      That's right.

    7. DT

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      Um, uh, who do you have on that card?

    9. DT

      Greg Hardy.

    10. JR

      Oh, interesting.

    11. DT

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      Okay, cool.

    13. DT

      (laughs) Uh, I, I'm always nervous when I say that.

    14. JR

      I know, I know.

    15. DT

      Yeah. 'Cause everybody-

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. DT

      Everybody's already cast judgment on him.

    18. JR

      For people who don't know the story, um, explain the story. Like, he w- he was an NFL player, and then-

    19. DT

      Yeah. He was a very high profile ...

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. DT

      ... a high profile NFL player, yeah.

    22. JR

      And something happened, w- domestic violence?

    23. DT

      Yeah. He had, um, allegedly, you know, beaten up this girl and, you know, did some horrif- horrific things to her, and-

    24. JR

      Right.

    25. DT

      ... um, s- but somehow he never was convicted of it, and the case was thrown out.

    26. JR

      What, do you ... (sighs) Does he talk about it?

    27. DT

      No, no. And that's the thing is that we don't talk about it because I'm sure that's something that he wants to forget about in his life.

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. DT

      So I'm not gonna be the one to bring it up to him.

    30. JR

      Right.

  4. 5:52 – 8:25

    Edson Barboza’s violence and craft: wheel kicks, body work, and moving to Florida

    1. JR

      Yeah, even, like, the hardest kick. I guess if you get, like, neck kicked, if somebody roundhouse kicks you in the neck. I mean, that's probably as bad as anything in life.

    2. DT

      Yeah, that's as bad as you can get. Yeah.

    3. JR

      But-

    4. DT

      Like-

    5. JR

      Yeah. Or, like, wheel kick, like when Edson Barboza wheel kicks people.

    6. DT

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, when he did ƒāriḥ at him.

    7. JR

      Jesus-

    8. DT

      Pow!

    9. JR

      ... Christ.

    10. DT

      Yeah, yeah. Wheel kicks, 'cause that's, like, full rotation of-

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. DT

      ... your body weight into that one kick.

    13. JR

      Oh.

    14. DT

      Onto your neck. Yeah, that's pretty bad.

    15. JR

      Dude, his fight with Dan Hooker, holy shit.

    16. DT

      Yeah. Yeah.

    17. JR

      First of all, holy shit, is Hooker tough, 'cause that guy tried to keep going, but his body was just... I would... His organs must've just been d- annihilated.

    18. DT

      Yeah, 'cause Barboza don't play.

    19. JR

      No.

    20. DT

      He train with us now too.

    21. JR

      Does he?

    22. DT

      Yeah. He train the top team now.

    23. JR

      Oh, that's right.

    24. DT

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      He went to Florida, right?

    26. DT

      Yeah. He came, moved to Florida.

    27. JR

      Why did he decide to move to Florida? His Muay Thai coach was in Florida.

    28. DT

      Yeah. Well, (sighs) we-

    29. JR

      'Cause he was with Mark Henry, right, in Jersey?

    30. DT

      Yeah. He was with Mark Henry, but his Muay Thai coach is the guy who brought him, who taught him-

  5. 8:25 – 11:49

    Wrestling’s real advantage: mindset, discomfort, competition reps, and grip strength

    1. JR

      Yeah. But that's... What I've always said is that, like, if you had to pick, like, one thing that you're good at, like, what's the most important thing? It seems to me to be wrestling, because the wrestlers can just... If you get, like, a real high level wrestler, they just dictate what happens. They dictate where the fight takes place. I don't think there is... I mean, you have to know how to strike. You have to know the other things as well, but I feel like the, if you have a pyramid of shit that's important, it feel like at the bottom is wrestling. And that motherfucker wrestles better than anybody in that division.

    2. DT

      Yeah, I mean, but, uh, see, I disagree, kind of.

    3. JR

      Okay.

    4. DT

      And here's why. Um, I don't necess- because when we talk about wrestling, I don't think it's necessarily the techniques of wrestling. I think it's just the way they're brought up. They're brought up different than-

    5. JR

      In Dagestan?

    6. DT

      Not, not only Dagestan. They're definitely brought up differently, but, like, any wrestler's just brought up different.

    7. JR

      Oh, toughness. Yes.

    8. DT

      A different level-

    9. JR

      Yes.

    10. DT

      ... of toughness.

    11. JR

      Yes.

    12. DT

      A different level, level of competitiveness. So, like, when you go to a jiu-jitsu school, first thing you learn how to do is bow to the mat and kiss the instructor's ass. That's it. You know-

    13. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. DT

      ... you bow to the mat and then you're learning self-defense and you're learning respect. In wrestling, it's not about that.

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. DT

      It's about dominating. It's about winning and dominating. So they're, they have years of experience of doing that, like, just that mindset.

    17. JR

      It's also about being uncomfortable all the time.

    18. DT

      Yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah, they're just... The room is always rough. It's always tough. Like, you go to a jiu-jitsu school, it's a bunch of dudes smoking pot, laying back.

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. DT

      They roll five minutes, sit back, smoke for 30, roll another five minutes.

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. DT

      You go to a wrestling room, it's hot, sweaty, they're all uncomfortable, they're all grinding. So you take that guy and you teach him some basic jiu-jitsu, you got a champ.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. DT

      Yeah. That-

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. DT

      It's just the mindset for me.

    27. JR

      Physical strength too.

    28. DT

      Yeah, yeah.

    29. JR

      Controlling people around.

    30. DT

      Yeah, they got physical strength, the grip strength. Like, that's so important. Like, for me, like, grips is everything.

  6. 11:49 – 16:16

    When grapplers and wrestlers fall in love with striking: career pitfalls and aging mechanics

    1. DT

      I know. I know. But that, but I think that's another problem with wrestlers, they fall in love with the striking early.

    2. JR

      Yes. Jiu-jitsu guys too.

    3. DT

      Yeah. Yeah. And that's what, and that's, and, and that's what messes them up, man.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. DT

      They fall in love with it and think, "Oh, I have to be well-rounded, so I have to dedicate all my time to doing this." And I'm like, "Man, but you getting worse at what you good at."

    6. JR

      Well, I used to watch George Gergel fight. I'm like, "If you watch that guy fight-"

    7. DT

      Ugh!

    8. JR

      "... you would never know that he was a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt."

    9. DT

      Oh, man.

    10. JR

      He just comes to bang.

    11. DT

      I used to get so mad at him.

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. DT

      I'm like, "Dude, what are you doing?"

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. DT

      "What are you doing?"Like, he- (clears throat) yeah, I don't know if it was, like, fan expectation or just, like, in his mind he wanted to be a striker, but I'd be like, "Dude, what are you doing?"

    16. JR

      I think he liked it, too. I think there's something to that, too, something that they like. I don't know. It g- gets weird when they have that new tool.

    17. DT

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      You know?

    19. DT

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. They fi- I mean, but it's ruined a lot of good fighters' careers.

    20. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    21. DT

      I mean, you look at, like, Johnny Hendricks-

    22. JR

      Yep.

    23. DT

      ... or, or Josh Koscheck. They, Josh, he fell in love with that right hand.

    24. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    25. DT

      Hendricks fell in love with that left hand. And then when it caught up to him...

    26. JR

      Hendricks is an interesting case, 'cause something switched off. Something, something changed with that guy. Like, that guy used to knock everybody dead, and then it just stopped happening. Like, you watch his Martin Kampmann fight. Martin Kampmann went flying like he had the death touch.

    27. DT

      Yeah, yeah.

    28. JR

      Jon Fitch went flying like the death touch.

    29. DT

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      Like, he was smashing people.

  7. 16:16 – 18:34

    The hard life of fighters: moving gyms, surviving financially, and chasing titles vs fandom

    1. JR

      So he was at Jackson's for quite a bit.

    2. DT

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      And then he just decided to just keep moving, huh?

    4. DT

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      That's the life of a fucking rambling fighter. Pshh. Moving different towns and trying to assimilate.

    6. DT

      Man, it's so hard.

    7. JR

      Single, no kids.

    8. DT

      Yep. But, nah, you know what?

    9. JR

      I'm at the gym dying.

    10. DT

      A lot of them, a lot of th- what they end up doing is they get in girls and, like, they end up shacking up with a girl because it's easier for them.

    11. JR

      In what way?

    12. DT

      Like, when you s- you're a struggling fighter, you got nothing, hardly nowhere to live, you find a girl and you shack up with her-

    13. JR

      (laughs)

    14. DT

      ... and she pay all your bills.

    15. JR

      Oh, really?

    16. DT

      Yeah, that's what a lot of fighters end up doing.

    17. JR

      (clears throat)

    18. DT

      That's why you see them end up, like, with their girl when they're young.

    19. JR

      (clicks tongue) Paying the bills. That's never a good relationship.

    20. DT

      No.

    21. JR

      Girls paying the bills.

    22. DT

      No.

    23. JR

      Oof.

    24. DT

      No. Especially when you're a fighter-

    25. JR

      Mmm.

    26. DT

      ... and then you lose a fight.

    27. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    28. DT

      She looking at you like, "This motherfucker."

    29. JR

      Get a job.

    30. DT

      Yeah. Yeah, get a fucking-

  8. 18:34 – 25:00

    Diaz brothers, star power, and why elite skill doesn’t always sell (Mighty Mouse)

    1. JR

      Well, they were trying to get him, um, he was trying to get the Conor McGregor fight.

    2. DT

      That'd been a tough fight for him.

    3. JR

      It would've been a tough fight for him, but at 155 pounds, it's not a bad fight for him.

    4. DT

      No, not really.

    5. JR

      I think that's a good fight for him.

    6. DT

      But I mean, the problem is, stylistically, he just d- He don't move his head enough.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. DT

      You know, and Nate, I mean, Nate doesn't either, but Nate took a lot of shots-

    9. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    10. DT

      ... you know, to the head. So, I mean, it's kind of a bad... I don't know.

    11. JR

      Yeah, but Nate, Nate is a... Nate is a very good boxer.

    12. DT

      Yeah. Nate can box.

    13. JR

      Yeah. Nate Diaz is... Ah. It frustrates the shit out of me that he's not fighting.

    14. DT

      Why is that?

    15. JR

      Because I like to see him. I wanna see him get in there. I wanna see him make money while he can too. I mean, y- you're only gonna be able to live this lifestyle for... I mean, I know he made a couple million dollars off of the Conor fight, but he hasn't fought in two years. More than that now.

    16. DT

      Yeah, but he ain't do- he ain't doing nothing else? Like...

    17. JR

      But the Dustin Poirier fight, that was gonna happen, but then Poirier got injured. He's got some hip issue, and then he pulled out of that fight. I just... I was looking forward to that fight. I want, I wanna see him back in it.

    18. DT

      Yeah, but... I mean, I would've loved to seen that fight. That's-

    19. JR

      And then Nick was supposed to fight Masvidal.

    20. DT

      That's, that's not gonna happen?

    21. JR

      No.

    22. DT

      Ugh. Why?

    23. JR

      I don't know.

    24. DT

      That's the perfect fight.

    25. JR

      It's a great fight.

    26. DT

      I mean, that's the fight where you could've got like the Hispanic culture-

    27. JR

      (laughs)

    28. DT

      ... the Civil War in Española going at it.

    29. JR

      Yeah. That wo- that would've been a great stylistic fight too.

    30. DT

      Yeah, and like they would've talked trash to each other.

  9. 25:00 – 29:20

    Din’s coaching framework: fighter vs athlete vs competitor vs artist

    1. DT

      Well, that's the thing, Joe. And I, and I gotta tell you, 'cause when I'm coaching guys, I have to identify that early.

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. DT

      And what I'm working with. Are you a fighter? Are you a athlete?

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. DT

      Are you a competitor or are you a artist?

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. DT

      I put them in them four categories.

    8. JR

      Ooh.

    9. DT

      And they have to be trained all differently.

    10. JR

      Hm, okay.

    11. DT

      Like if, yeah, like-

    12. JR

      How do you train a artist?

    13. DT

      Like a artist, you gotta let them get creative.

    14. JR

      Well, give me an example of a artist.

    15. DT

      Like a, as a fighter?

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. DT

      I look at somebody like, prime example, we just saw him, Ryan Hall.

    18. JR

      Yes.

    19. DT

      Ryan Hall is an artist.

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. DT

      Like, what he did, that was like art, that's poetry-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. DT

      ... what he did to BJ.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. DT

      And f- the fight world ain't really ready for that yet.

    26. JR

      You don't think so?

    27. DT

      No. Well, it's getting there, but they're not ready for that yet, because when you saw when he fought, uh, Gray Maynard.

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. DT

      He's trying to perform his art. Gray Maynard wouldn't let him, so who do we blame? We blame the artist. Everybody said, "Ah, man, Ryan Hall. Get him out of there. He's a pussy. He can't fight."

    30. JR

      Well, he had to fight the smart way.

  10. 29:20 – 32:41

    Coaching and development ecosystems: Gustafsson, Europe vs U.S. attentiveness, and ATT resources

    1. JR

      Let me a- let me ask you a guy. Let me tell you a guy like this. Okay, what would you do with Gustafsson?

    2. DT

      Gustafsson?

    3. JR

      Yeah. 'Cause Gustafsson in that weird spot, right? Can't beat DC, can't beat John, fucks up Glover Teixeira.

    4. DT

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Looks like a world beater when he beats Jimmy Manuwa. I mean, he, he's got world class talent for sure, but it seems like it's just shy of world championship caliber.

    6. DT

      See, but that's, but that's something that he might have to like go soul searching for 'cause he might not have it.

    7. JR

      Hm.

    8. DT

      You know? So if he don't have it, so then you just start going, you know what? I need to get feisty just to make a bunch of money.

    9. JR

      Do you think maybe it's where he trains? Do you think maybe it's he, you know, he's training overseas with, you know, he trains with Ilir Latifi who's really good.

    10. DT

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      But I mean, does he have world class coaching over there? I mean, does he, does he have world class sparring partners, people that recognize patterns?

    12. DT

      So, yeah, so that's, that's what I think too is it in Europe, and somebody mentioned this to me couple, couple months ago, is that in Europe the coaches are better.

    13. JR

      Really?

    14. DT

      And I don't necessarily think-

    15. JR

      How so?

    16. DT

      ... that they're better, but they're more attentive.

    17. JR

      Hmm.

    18. DT

      They're more attentive to their fighters, so they know... So if Gus were to leave his coaching te- his coaching staff, I think he'd be a worse fighter. I think he needs to keep his coaching staff, but maybe add something else to it.

    19. JR

      Well, he spent some time in Alliance.

    20. DT

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      You know?

    22. DT

      And I think he needs, he needed that.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. DT

      But what he might need are just better partners.

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. DT

      He might just need a few better guys to give him some different looks.But I think that the coaching staff, or the, his coaching staff is fine. I've worked with some of them before, 'cause L- L- L- Latifi used to come to The Top Team, and I met all them guys. They're smart, and they're more attentive to their guys than American coaches.

    27. JR

      Hmm.

    28. DT

      American coaches sometimes, just, "All right. Go ahead, roll. Go ahead. Do what you gotta do." There's a bunch of good guys in the room. I don't need to tell you nothing, you know?

    29. JR

      Hmm.

    30. DT

      So, like, I think that's the biggest difference between, like, America and then, like, in Europe.

  11. 32:41 – 38:16

    Amanda Nunes: why she’s dominant, how to coach her, and UFC promotion misfires (Ronda era)

    1. JR

      Dude, that chick is a savage.

    2. DT

      I know.

    3. JR

      She's a savage.

    4. DT

      I know.

    5. JR

      When she wa- she had a smile on her face when she was fucking up Cyborg.

    6. DT

      I know.

    7. JR

      She had, like, a half a grin when she was digging in. Like, it was half grit teeth, half smile when she was fucking her up. It's like, "Boom."

    8. DT

      See, see, people, like, they- they never... I don't think they gave her no credit.

    9. JR

      I did.

    10. DT

      Yeah, I mean, they're, "Oh, yeah. She hits hard. She knocked out Ronda. She knocked out, you know, Misha Ta- she beat up Miesha Tate. She knocked these girls out." But your neighbor, "Oh, yeah, she fight like a dude," but she fight like a brother.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. DT

      She got the little swag. You know what I'm saying? She fight like a brother.

    13. JR

      Yeah. Well, you know what, to me, I think one of the- the most impressive performances r- was Raquel Pennington?

    14. DT

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      'Cause I don't think people give Raquel Pennington enough credit. I think Raquel Pennington was one of those girls, like, you see her first fight with Holly Holm. She almost beat Holly Holm. She lost by split decision. Her fight with, uh, Ashley Evans-Smith, holy shit, was that chaos.

    16. DT

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      And she gets her in that bulldog choke and chokes her unconscious with, like, one second left.

    18. DT

      Yeah, yeah.

    19. JR

      Like, "Ah!" It was madness, blood everywhere. I mean, that girl's f- tough as shit.

    20. DT

      She's super... You're right, man. She's super tough, yeah.

    21. JR

      Tough, tough. And when Amanda fucked her up, I was like, "Good Lord."

    22. DT

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      I was like, "This is a different Amanda."

    24. DT

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      She's- she's got everything now. Before she had the power, but she didn't have the endurance, and she would fade. And, you know, like, perfect example was the Cat Zingano fight. She fucked Cat Zingano up bad in that first round, so bad that Cat's head was fucked up for years afterwards. She was having problems with her cortisol levels. Her hormones were all fucked up.

    26. DT

      No shit.

    27. JR

      She gave her hypothyroid. She gave her, her... She killed her thyroid in that fight.

    28. DT

      Oh, my God.

    29. JR

      Yes. Like, she talked about it on my podcast. She's like, "That girl hit me so hard, she fu- she gave me a thyroid condition."

    30. DT

      Oh, my God.

  12. 38:16 – 45:28

    Fixing MMA’s infrastructure: weight cutting, judging, open scoring, and better incentive systems

    1. DT

      I don't know why fighters feel like that's the answer all the time.

    2. JR

      (laughs) Cutting weight.

    3. DT

      Cutting weight, cutting weight. I hate it.

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. DT

      I hate it. I'm like, if you're gonna allow seven pounds to dictate whether you can beat this guy or not, you got a problem.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. DT

      Then you not that good then.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. DT

      You should never allow, like, seven pounds to dictate whether you can beat somebody or not.

    10. JR

      Do you think that the sport would be better if they eliminated weight cutting the way ONE FC did?

    11. DT

      I think so.

    12. JR

      I think so too.

    13. DT

      I think so. I wish they would.

    14. JR

      I think the performance would be better. I think guys would be more durable, they'd be able to take shots better, and I think there'd be less bullshit. I think they just need more options in terms of weight classes. I think that's one. I think th- because there's, there's too many giant jumps, like 85 to 205.

    15. DT

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    16. JR

      Like, what the fuck is that?

    17. DT

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      20 pounds is a lot.

    19. DT

      Well, I mean, uh, that's just one issue with this sport is like incredibly antiquated, like the weight classes.

    20. JR

      Right. Yeah, very.

    21. DT

      Like this is... I mean, this stuff was 20 years ago. I mean-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. DT

      ... it was... And we're keeping it the same, like the pay structure, antiquated.

    24. JR

      Yeah, yeah.

    25. DT

      Win bonuses, but knock a guy for winning.

    26. JR

      I hate, I hate win bonuses.

    27. DT

      I'm like, "Why are we having win bo- knock a guy for winning?" You paying them double to win.

    28. JR

      Yeah. Well, not only that, you're paying these assholes to judge.

    29. DT

      Yeah. Judging is terrible.

    30. JR

      You're paying people who don't know what the fuck they're watching. There's... I- I would love... I mean, there's some great judges. Don't get me wrong. If you're listening and you're a judge and you're great, thank you. There's some terrible judges. And I want- I would like to know how many of them have ever even trained.

  13. 45:28 – 55:14

    Striking innovation: karate-style sliding kicks, Wonderboy prep, and Conor’s hybrid movement

    1. JR

      Did you see that Robin Black breakdown of the dude... There's, I've always said that one thing that I used to see in sport karate and I used to see in taekwondo was sliding. Like, guys knew how to lift up that front leg and slide in.

    2. DT

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      And it doesn't, I don't see that a lot in MMA, but if someone was good at it... There was, like, there was a guy that I used to train with, his name was Larry Jones. And Larry was a, he was tall. He was, like, 6'2", but his legs went up to his armpits, man. It was crazy.

    4. DT

      (laughs) That's happened.

    5. JR

      This dude would just fuck people up with his front leg in taekwondo tournaments. He would just slide across. Bam!

    6. DT

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      Just slide across. And people just didn't know what to do with that front leg. They were trying to figure out that front leg. And Robin Black, uh, see if you can find this. I think it's on his Instagram. This dude, I don't know who the guy is, I've never seen him fight before, but he slides in with a side kick, blam! Slides in again, blam! And then goes to the guy's face with a si- I mean, he's covering, like, 15 feet with his one leg up in the air and one leg down, just sliding in with his hips and his momentum.

    8. DT

      Yeah. Well, see, that's a unique skill to have.

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. DT

      And I gotta tell you, and like, when, when me and Tyron, when we first started training for the Wunderbo- Wunderboy fight, we couldn't find anybody that could do that really.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. DT

      And that's why a lot of people have problems with Wonderboy, because, "Oh yeah, I'll just get a bunch of guys that can strike." But his striking is different.

    13. JR

      It's different.

    14. DT

      It's different.

    15. JR

      Very different. And it's, here's the guy. Look at this. Watch this guy do it.

    16. JV

      Is it this one?

    17. JR

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    18. JV

      Okay.

    19. JR

      Do it from the beginning, though.

    20. JV

      Well, it's gonna reset.

    21. JR

      Do it... Yeah, but just reset it. Watch this guy. Watch how this guy does this. This is crazy.

    22. RB

      Robin Black, and this is your one-minute breakdown.

    23. JR

      See how he slides?

    24. RB

      Some wonderful stuff coming up.

    25. DT

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      Look at this slide. Watch this. Boom!

    27. RB

      The fully extended front kick.

    28. JR

      That's some serious sliding.

    29. DT

      Oh my goodness.

    30. JR

      Serious coverage. The distance of that, it's in that you see a lot in those sport karate guys.

  14. 55:14 – 1:14:23

    Upcoming fights and welterweight politics: Askren–Lawler, Woodley–Usman, and the Colby problem

    1. JR

      "UFC 235 takes shape with two title fights and three ex-UFC champs." So is that on the card?

    2. PV

      So it says it's Jones, Anthony Smith.

    3. DT

      Ooh.

    4. PV

      Tyron versus Kamaru Usman.

    5. DT

      Ooh.

    6. PV

      And then Askren and Lawler.

    7. JR

      Woo. That's it.

    8. DT

      There we go.

    9. JR

      Is that March 2nd?

    10. PV

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      UA- uh, that's in Vegas, right?

    12. PV

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Goddamn, k- pray to the MMA gods, keep that card together. Keep that card together.

    14. DT

      Keep that- and- and don't forget, uh, Pedro Munhoz and, um, Cody Garbrandt.

    15. JR

      Ooh, is that on that fight too?

    16. DT

      Yeah, that's on there too, yeah.

    17. JR

      Wow.

    18. PV

      Yes.

    19. JR

      Wow. That's a fucking card right there.

    20. DT

      I know. Yeah.

    21. JR

      That's a fucking card.

    22. PV

      Uh, here's the rest of it.

    23. DT

      Holly Holm's also on it. It's a beat.

    24. JR

      Holly Holm, Aspen Ladd.

    25. DT

      Can't get rid of that ad, so.

    26. JR

      Zabit and Jeremy Stephens. Holy shit. Gotta love it. Gotta love it. Mickey Gall and Diego Sanchez, Jesus. Ovince Saint Preux and Misha Cirkinov.

    27. DT

      And Misha.

    28. JR

      Ooh.

    29. DT

      Man, that's a great card.

    30. JR

      That's a fucking crazy card. That card's bombs away, man. That is a bombs away card. I, um, I don't know about the Anthony Smith and Jon Jones. Wow.

Episode duration: 2:53:36

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