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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #64 with Khalil Rountree Jr.

Joe is joined by UFC Light Heavyweight fighter Khalil Rountree Jr.

Joe RoganhostKhalil Rountree Jr.guest
Apr 26, 20192h 19mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:03 – 1:08

    Rogan reacts to the Eryk Anders fight and Khalil’s leap as a striker

    1. JR

      And boom. (fists thudding) What's up, man? How are you?

    2. KJ

      Good, man.

    3. JR

      Thanks for doing this.

    4. KJ

      Thank you for having me on.

    5. JR

      I was so impressed with, uh, your performance from that... past UFC that I had to, I had to talk to you.

    6. KJ

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      I was like, that was a- I've seen guys make, like, you were always a very dangerous striker, from obviously, from the Gokhan Saki fight. Every guy- everybody got to see that.

    8. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      But to see how fluid you were against a beast like Eryk Anders. I mean, Eryk Anders is a scary cat.

    10. KJ

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      He's d- he's coming for blood, right? And you were so fast, man. It was crazy to watch. It was really interesting.

    12. KJ

      Thank you.

    13. JR

      Like, what b- If you had to give yourself a percentage leap that you've gone up over the last year, what do you think it would be?

    14. KJ

      Compared to like...

    15. JR

      Well, who you were before that.

    16. KJ

      Not that high of a leap. I mean-

    17. JR

      Not that high of a leap.

    18. KJ

      Like, that performance for me was like, I feel good about it, but that was only four months. So I'm like, I know that there's so much more for me to gain.

    19. JR

      Right.

    20. KJ

      That's why I'm like, yeah, I gotta go back. So the leap not, not too much because I know there's still a lot more to go.

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. KJ

      A lot more. Yeah.

  2. 1:08 – 3:58

    Thailand camp: absorbing Muay Thai culture, discipline, and balance

    1. JR

      Wow. So you've decided... So for people who don't understand what we're talking about, you went to Thailand.

    2. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      You spent four months down in Thailand. And, um, you, you, dude you f- were fighting like a Thai boxer.

    4. KJ

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      It was crazy, like, Mark Dellograte, who, uh, works in the production truck-

    6. KJ

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      He's the guy who picks out the instant replays. He and I talk back and forth sometimes while the fight's going on.

    8. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      And Mark, Mark, you know, with his heavy Boston accent, like, "Dude, classic Thai."

    10. KJ

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      "He's classic Thai stance."

    12. KJ

      He was just so light on that front leg, dude.

    13. JR

      (laughs)

    14. KJ

      Wow!

    15. JR

      Dude, that inside leg kick was so ferocious.

    16. KJ

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      It was fun to watch, man.

    18. KJ

      So, it's just... Usually, wherever I go, um, I've always been good at just, like, kind of absorbing the culture. I'm a guy, like, I can go into a room full of people, and I can just kind of pick up what the energy is like. And that's another reason why I wanted to go to Thailand. So, just the way that they train, and the discipline, the power, but the relaxation. Like, everything I was learning, just like, man, there's so much more to Muay Thai.

    19. JR

      Hmm.

    20. KJ

      So I would just, even the days that I didn't train, I'd just sit around and just watch these guys because Muay Thai is more than just punching, kicking, elbows. I mean, there's balance, you know what I mean? There's, there's repetition. Like, how many kicks are you throwing? You know, the guys at the stadiums, they're like, they're kick, kick, kick, kick, kick.

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. KJ

      So I was able to learn a lot, man. And there's still a lot to go.

    23. JR

      It's beautiful to see someone on that pursuit. And I think it's, um... It's much like Roger Mayweather said about boxing, like, most people don't know shit about boxing.

    24. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    25. JR

      The way he said that it's like, if anybody is gonna say that, he's gonna say that, because there are levels and layers.

    26. KJ

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      And there's, there's paths to go down. And it's interesting when you see someone f- uh, li- committed with a very, uh, like, a very specific style, like, your, like, your adoption of that Muay Thai style. So ef- it's so effective as a striking style. It's really interesting when you think of all the different ways to attack with striking-

    28. KJ

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      ... that that one way became very particularly successful.

    30. KJ

      You know what? Before I even started training MMA as a whole, um, my first mixed martial, my first martial arts class was a Muay Thai class. I knew that I wanted to train Muay Thai or learn Muay Thai.

  3. 3:58 – 5:36

    Stadium Muay Thai vs. “Shoot the Box”/Brazilian-style striking systems

    1. JR

      Let's characterize it for people.

    2. KJ

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      Would you say that that Curitiba style is just way more aggressive, different, uh, different way they utilize techniques?

    4. KJ

      Yeah, it's, it's-

    5. JR

      Not light on the front leg.

    6. KJ

      So-

    7. JR

      Sometimes they are. Like, Mor- Shogun would be light on his front leg a little bit.

    8. KJ

      One thing that they were doing a lot that's pretty similar is just, like, they go at it. Shoot the box, they'll go at it-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. KJ

      ... and you just go until the other guy stops, pretty much. Um, but from the shoot the box that was, like, very combo based, like, punches and kicks. So, like, one, two. Like, you have to memorize these crazy combos. Cordero is, he, like, I think he's one of the guys that just, like, passed it down a lot.

    11. JR

      Hmm.

    12. KJ

      There's Diego Lima, I think, guys like that. But-

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. KJ

      ... they have this system, and it's very, like, combination based, um, memory slipping, punch, kick, all the stuff. But the Thais are just like, it's just straight kick, you know, like, punch. If you, you fall down on that front foot, elbow, knee. It's just, uh, it's broken down completely differently.

    15. JR

      Hmm.

    16. KJ

      Um, it's just a whole, a whole different style. Yeah, it is. Like, so the, the shoot the box stuff has punches, kicks, knees, elbows, combinations, same tools that you're gonna use in Muay Thai, but Muay Thai has got a whole different game plan.

    17. JR

      Hmm.

    18. KJ

      You know, clinching, like, I've never trained as much clinching in America as I have in Thailand in just four months. And I've been fighting or training now for like nine years. So just in four months, I've gotten more clinch time in Thailand than I have, you know, in my whole career.

    19. JR

      Hmm.

    20. KJ

      And that's because it's a whole different game. You got to master the clinch in T- in, in Muay Thai, you have to for effective, like, real true Muay Thai.

  4. 5:36 – 7:17

    Tiger Muay Thai as an MMA hub and Khalil’s plan to move there for a year

    1. JR

      Are you getting a lot of wrestling over there?

    2. KJ

      Yeah. So that's one thing, too. I heard, um, I heard Schaub talking about it. Um, Tiger has amazing s- like, it's am- an amazing gym. 40 to 60 guys on the mat from everywhere. Chechnya.

    3. JR

      Wow.

    4. KJ

      You know, in- everywhere and everywhere, man. Those guys, they come there maybe for a week, maybe two weeks.

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. KJ

      Um, maybe for a month. But you're getting constant, um, good training. Uh, grappling, everything, MMA, boxing.... CrossFit, ev- everything you need is in one place. It's, it's, it blew my mind being there, honestly.

    7. JR

      Um, that's fascinating. And your, y- do, are you st- the coaches that you were working with before, are you still working with them in Thailand? Are you just gonna... uh, y- I know you talked about actually moving to Thailand?

    8. KJ

      Yeah, yeah. The plan is to move there, like, as soon as possible.

    9. JR

      Really?

    10. KJ

      Yeah. So, I was like hitting you up, like, "Joe, I want to get on your show."

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. KJ

      "I want to talk a little bit." Um, but, yeah, I wanna, um, the plan is to move to Thailand, like, within the next couple weeks, for at least a year. And I wanna go there just because I can just train. The, the lifestyle is completely different. I can walk to the gym, hop on a motorbike. It's just, it's so simple. Um, but to a- answer the question about my coaches, um, I always have my brother in my corner. He's just kind of like moral support. We started this together. Um, I had a conditioning coach/friend/mental type of, like, support, um, Lorenzo Pavelka, and then my head coaches have switched probably two or three times in the last couple fights. I had Kenny Johnson from Blackhouse, um, John Wood from Syndicate, and now I have George Hickman from Tiger Muay Thai. Yeah.

  5. 7:17 – 8:49

    The Johnny Walker setback: overcorrecting toward wrestling and losing his striking identity

    1. JR

      And so, this change that you decided to make, uh, did it come after the Johnny Walker fight?

    2. KJ

      Yeah. So, the Johnny Walker fight, like, that camp was tough, man. Like, I was doing so much to try to improve in my wrestling and grappling because that was always, like, a big hole in my game. Um, so I spent so much time wrestling over at Blackhouse with Kevin Casey, and this guy that I fought, Blake Shroup, they're huge. And these guys are great grapplers. So-

    3. JR

      Kevin Casey's a powerhouse.

    4. KJ

      Yeah. He'll put you into the ground and he feels like cement block on top of you.

    5. JR

      Yeah. That's old school hicks and jujitsu.

    6. KJ

      Exactly. High pressure, man.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. KJ

      So, um, yeah, I would, I was just grinding myself into the mat every day for that camp expecting like, "Okay, I'm comfortable on the feet. If he goes to the ground, I'm ready." And, um, I, I think I just completely lost sight of, like, my striking, my Muay Thai in that fight. His size, everything, I just kind of froze up, man. I was just like, "Uh," I didn't know what to do, how to get there, so...

    9. JR

      Well, it's all part of the education, right? I mean, this is what this, this career of fighting that you're, you're on this path, is what it's all about.

    10. KJ

      Yeah. And fighting for me is like big self-awareness too, you know?

    11. JR

      I think it's always important though, when a guy has a setback, to see how he responds. Some people get discouraged, some people get encouraged, some people just decide, like, they're gonna be much more committed, and that's what you did.

    12. KJ

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      You just... I mean, making that move to do your camp in Thailand and seeing how it paid off, I mean, Eryk Anders is a very tough customer and you essentially shut him out.

    14. KJ

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      I mean, it was very, very impressive, man.

  6. 8:49 – 11:09

    Eryk Anders toughness, fight-stoppage debate, and a Bruce Buffer tangent

    1. KJ

      That was the, that was the, the plan though because I knew he was tough.

    2. JR

      He's tough.

    3. KJ

      I've trained with him before, I sparred with him before that, everything. And like, he's, I've watched all of his fights. The guy's hard to put away.

    4. JR

      We were making a case for the fight being stopped.

    5. KJ

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      We were making a case. I mean, DC was, uh, saying, like, "The, we can stop this fight." I was saying it. I was like, "You're, you are fucking his legs up." We were like, "This is-"

    7. KJ

      I didn't think about it during the fight. I wasn't like-

    8. JR

      I'm sure you weren't.

    9. KJ

      "... Oh gosh, let's stop it." Yeah.

    10. JR

      But that guy's so damn tough. He kept coming, man.

    11. KJ

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      I mean, he, he never stopped trying to win that fight.

    13. KJ

      Yeah, there's no quit in him.

    14. JR

      None.

    15. KJ

      I mean, even in the-

    16. JR

      Zero.

    17. KJ

      ... in the Santos fight, remember?

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. KJ

      Like, it was just going-

    20. JR

      Do or die.

    21. KJ

      They were-

    22. JR

      Do or die.

    23. KJ

      Yeah. No, then he tweets-

    24. JR

      He said-

    25. KJ

      ... he was like, "I haven't been that tired since like my wedding night," or something like that.

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. KJ

      He's always got good, good tweets after the fight.

    28. JR

      I, I l-

    29. KJ

      Shout out to Eryk Anders.

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  7. 11:09 – 15:45

    AirDrop gifts and the logistics of living/traveling for camps (jet lag, heat, and routine)

    1. KJ

      Oh, Joe, really quick.

    2. JR

      What do you, what do you got?

    3. KJ

      Okay. So, um, remember I told you to turn your AirDrop on?

    4. JR

      Yes, yes.

    5. KJ

      During the show. Um, so I didn't wanna come here empty-handedly. So, I haven't slept in probably, hmm, 24 hours, more than 24 hours. But last night, I was drawing and I know you like art so I was like-

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. KJ

      ... "Oh, let me, let me draw these illustrations for you." So, I just wanna send them to you.

    8. JR

      Okay.

    9. KJ

      So turn your AirDrop on.

    10. JR

      It's on.

    11. KJ

      And as soon as it comes through, I'll send them. But yeah, I really, just like, man, yeah, I just wanna, if you wanna keep them, use them for like wallpapers or post them up, whatever you want.

    12. JR

      You made this?

    13. KJ

      Yeah, I did all of these, man.

    14. JR

      Dude, that's... I look ridiculous.

    15. NA

      (laughs)

    16. KJ

      Yeah, I did the little like... (laughs)

    17. JR

      (laughs) I'll put it on, uh, Instagram later.

    18. KJ

      Cool, man.

    19. JR

      That's very cute.

    20. KJ

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      Well, it looks like me.

    22. KJ

      I'm getting ugly.

    23. JR

      As I get older, I see pictures of me when I was younger.

    24. KJ

      (laughs) No, I saw this, there's a picture of you in the gym and you had this like crazy face.

    25. JR

      So much prettier. (laughs)

    26. KJ

      I'll actually show you the, the, um, the actual one. It's really good.

    27. JR

      Oh, I know what you're talking about, Instagram.

    28. KJ

      You know what I'm talking about?

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. KJ

      Yeah, I was going crazy during this stupid cha- fitness challenge I was having with my friends. We were working out-

  8. 15:45 – 19:36

    Thai fight culture: kids training young, gamblers in stadiums, and calm locker rooms

    1. JR

      Yeah, I mean, that whole culture, man. I mean, the, the Thai and Muay Thai culture, it's... What a phenomenon. If you look at combat sports and then this one that it's so tied into these stadiums, it's so tied into gambling and betting.

    2. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      It's so... I mean, it... Kids get indoctrinated into it at a very young age.

    4. KJ

      Super young. Super young.

    5. JR

      It's wild.

    6. KJ

      There's, there's guys at the gym that I was at, um, little kids, they'd come right after school, and they go to Muay Thai training, and they're training just like the older guys, and then they go right back to ho- like, home, eat dinner. But that's just their lifestyle. So it, it starts as a kid. It's like, go to school, Muay Thai, go to sleep. And then as an adult, it's like, Muay Thai, feed your family, Muay Thai, feed your family. These guys live at the gym, man.

    7. JR

      Jesus.

    8. KJ

      They live at the gym, and they go home maybe two days after a fight just to take care of their families and then come right back to the gym and get ready for the next fight.

    9. JR

      Now, o- of course, at Tiger Muay Thai, you know, you've guys... Everybody knows, uh, dif- various people in different organizations.

    10. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      UFC, Bellator, what have you, uh, One FC, but what about those guys that are fighting in those little small Thai gyms and stadiums? Like, how much access do they have to grappling, or how... But do they ever... Do, do they... Are they th- satisfied to just do Muay Thai? Is there at all like a movement in Thailand to start doing MMA like you're doing?

    12. KJ

      There... No, es- especially at Tiger, um, a lot of those guys are coming over to the MMA and s- and learning jujitsu and wrestling.

    13. JR

      Hmm.

    14. KJ

      One of the guys I was learning to clinch from, um, he was like, um... He's got probably 300 fights.

    15. JR

      Hmm.

    16. KJ

      Um, 300 Muay Thai fights, and he started training MMA and taking MMA fights. So it's de- They're o- They're definitely opening their mind to it and, and, and hopping in there. And there's access. In Bangkok, it's a little different, um, 'cause that's very, like, stadium based-

    17. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    18. KJ

      ... you know, like high-level Muay Thai. And, uh, they're not too focused on MMA. There are a couple MMA gyms, but if you want to do that, if you want to get the best of both worlds, it's in, it's in Phuket at Tiger. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    19. JR

      So, uh, in... Is there any MMA at all in Bangkok?

    20. KJ

      Uh, they got a couple places, but nothing with like, uh, like pro fighters or any high-level fighters.

    21. JR

      Okay.

    22. KJ

      But they do have, they do have maybe three or four MMA gyms there with just guys stopping in or guys who practice, you know, a little bit of everything.

    23. JR

      I'm always really interested in countries that figure something out better than everybody else.

    24. KJ

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      When it comes to leg kicking, like, nobody figured it out any better than the Thais.

    26. KJ

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      It's like no one argues that, right?

    28. KJ

      No, seriously.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. KJ

      And their shins, man, like... I think they're just... That's done for. They don't even feel the front of their legs anymore.

  9. 19:36 – 38:47

    Hypnosis and timeline therapy: managing anxiety, visualization, and performance clarity

    1. KJ

      I never threw many leg kicks in any of my fights. Um, I've never really did that stance. Everything that I did was pretty much brand new, um, and I was really nervous. I was like, "What if it doesn't work?" You know, like, so many different, so many different feelings. And, um, for this one I, uh, the only thing I could tell myself was, like, "Rely on your training." And a few other things. I actually got, um, I got, like, hypnotized too before. Yeah.

    2. JR

      Dude?

    3. KJ

      (laughs)

    4. JR

      Who did it to you?

    5. KJ

      Um, my friend Dominique. Um, he has- he has this, like... I met him through one of the f- um, one of the other UFC fighters, like Julian Marquez. I met him, I met him through him. And he's like, "Oh, yeah, I do, like, hypnotism, all this stuff." I'm like, "Okay, cool. I've done it before. I did it in California." And, um, so I think three weeks, two or three weeks prior to the fight, we had a few sessions a week where it just, like, helped me to really get that visualization clear. 'Cause we have so many thoughts all the time, right?

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. KJ

      And everything just, like... Thoughts are constantly coming in, and to stay focused and to really, like- like... get the outcome that we've, you know, set our intention to, it's kind of hard-

    8. JR

      So-

    9. KJ

      ... with so many distractions, so.

    10. JR

      When you go into his office, and- or wherever you do it-

    11. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    12. JR

      ... and you guys talk about it, do you set a goal before you start the session?

    13. KJ

      We do this thing called timeline therapy. So it's like, I'm just kind of sitting there with my eyes closed and, um, we kind of just do this... We'll pick a subject, whether it's like, you know, pain, fear, you know, nervousness, something. We'll just pick a subject, a feeling-

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. KJ

      ... whatever's going on. And, um, it's kind of just like a visual timeline of, like, where did this start, where did it-

    16. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. KJ

      ... come from, what's the event, whatever. And we kind of just talk about that for a while. And, um, I just kind of dig to this place of where the nervousness is coming from or where the, you know, where the fear is coming from, or whatever. I kind of just, I find a place on my timeline and I dig from it, whether it's in the future, the past, whatever. And, um, then we get things clear and then, um, and then after that he kind of helps me, guides me into this, like, hypnotism which is really just, like, a really deep relaxation. If I wanted to open my eyes or something like that, I feel like I could, but I wanted to relax. I wanted this to help, you know?

    18. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. KJ

      I wanted my vision to be clear, so I did my best to just, like, surrender to the process and I'd say it's not something where I woke up and I was like, "Oh, yeah, my life is changed." But, um, I can definitely remember the thoughts that I had so that I can stay more on, like, in that-

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. KJ

      ... in that lane of what I wanted. And in my- in my hypnotism, I actually visualized not winning the fight because I didn't want to strive too hard to win. Like, it's just something that I've been kind of studying. It's like the outcome is not really, like... The winning or losing, I don't want to base too much on that. I just want to put on, like, a great performance. So I visualized after, one thing, hand- like, just having my hands in the air, seeing my brother smile, my coach smile, and then slapping hands with the crowd, um, on the way out. And then I-

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. KJ

      ... was also like, "And I want to see my win bonus and my show money." And these are the things that I wanted to see. These are the outcomes that I wanted. Not so much just, "I want to win the fight," but the things that I, like how I wanted it to happen.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. KJ

      And having that vision clear, it helped me. And so, like, everything that I visualized before that, uh, it happened. I was like, "Cool." Hands raised, slapped hands with everybody in the crowd on the way out, signed both my checks, and that was like, that was the end of it for me until the next session, until I want to get clear on something else, you know? It was cool.

    26. JR

      Wow. So had you done anything like that before, any mental coaching, any-

    27. KJ

      Yeah, before the Gokhan Saki fight, I did something very, very similar. Yeah, with, um, with another guy, uh-

    28. JR

      Was that the first time you'd ever done it?

    29. KJ

      First time doing hypnotism, yeah, definitely. And, um, yeah, my friend Matthias, he's here, and, uh, he's really good too. And he'll just, like, take some notes. You kind of just have a conversation in the beginning. And everything comes from your unconscious mind. It's not somebody telling you something.

    30. JR

      Mm-hmm.

  10. 38:47 – 44:19

    From overweight, introverted musician to fighter: the origin story and 100-pound transformation

    1. JR

      When did you get involved in martial arts?

    2. KJ

      Uh, when I was 20, so 2010. So really quick, right after high school I started, um, I started traveling. So I used to play in a band. I used to play in mini bands. And played guitar.

    3. JR

      What instrument?

    4. KJ

      I played guitar, I played drums, I played keyboard, a little bit of everything. Every Christmas my mom would just know, would just get me a new instrument, and I'd lock myself in my room and teach myself how to play. And that's just always how, like music was my first love.

    5. JR

      Wow.

    6. KJ

      Instruments were my first love. So I-

    7. JR

      You taught yourself?

    8. KJ

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      Was-

    10. KJ

      I'd just put on like headphones and I would just match the sounds and then keep restarting the songs over and over again.

    11. JR

      Wow.

    12. KJ

      And then if it were like a keyboard song I'd play it, like just on the CD player and, you know, as it evolved. And for some reason, I can just m- I can match tunes with whatever instrument it may be.

    13. JR

      You've always been able to do that?

    14. KJ

      Since a kid.

    15. JR

      Wow.

    16. KJ

      Yeah. So-

    17. JR

      No, no formal training?

    18. KJ

      Nothing.

    19. JR

      That's f- cra- What? Wow.

    20. KJ

      Yeah. I've tried to take, I've tried to take guitar lessons before, um, but it didn't work for me and my mom was just wasting her money. Like I was learning, but it was kinda like school for me. Like I had a teacher and he's telling me, "Okay, this chord and this chord." And I was like, "Ah," like, "just let me feel it." (laughs) Like, "I gotta, I gotta feel it." You know? Like, "I can hear it, I can, I can feel it, I'll get it." And so I, I stopped going.

    21. JR

      But how many people do it like, like that?

    22. KJ

      I'm not sure. I know that there's a lot of people that can just kinda play by ear, but so I'll, like I just love instruments, so I'll pick anything up and just start playing it and end up teaching myself how to play drums, bass, guitar, keyboard. I played the standup bass in, uh, in middle school. Um, I've got like a little home production, like beat studio at home, all that stuff. So after high school I started touring (sniffs) and, uh, that's when like I started getting my heaviest. We were eating fast food every single day, three times a day, never drank water. Soda only. Smoking like a pack and a half of cigarettes a day and just on the road traveling. And then, uh, by 19 I got up to 305 pounds.

    23. JR

      (whistles)

    24. KJ

      19 years old. And I remember one night laying down to go to bed and I just felt my heart pumping ridiculously and I was just like, "No way. This is like... I think I'm gonna die." And like I woke up in a panic. And (laughs) weird thing is I got up and I di- went outside for maybe like 10 minutes and I smoked another cigarette.

    25. JR

      (sighs)

    26. KJ

      And I was just like, "This is the problem." Like, "I'm coughing up stuff and my heart is gonna give out and I'm only 19 years old." You know? So around that same week is when I discovered MMA with my brother just like watching Ultimate Fighter on TV. And so, uh, I went on my last tour and, uh, I told the guys like, "Hey, I'm gonna go train MMA." They're like, "Oh, you're gonna be a fighter?" Like, "You think..." You know? And I was just like, "I don't know what I'm gonna be, but I'm gonna go train and get healthy." And they're like, "Okay, cool." Like, "We'll see you in a couple of months." You know what I mean? (laughs) Like no one really believed that I was gonna go and actually train and fight. I told you, I've always been like this big, quiet, non-confrontational guy. So, um, yeah, I went and took my first class, Muay Thai, in March 1st, 2010. Took my first Muay Thai class and then after like a month of doing Muay Thai, I started to see progression and I started to see like my face was slimming down, all this stuff, so it gave me motivation to keep going. And then, um, I r- remember going to a MMA event, amateur, and I saw really big heavyweight guys going at it. So I was like, "Ah, I think I wanna do it. I wanna give it a try." And, uh, so my coach was like, "Okay, if you lose 100 pounds I'll, like, I'll find you a fight." And I was like, "100 pounds?" And he's like, "Yeah, I'll find you a fight if you lose 100 pounds." So, um, I just kept training. Within 11 months, lost 100 pounds and then took my first fight and then it's been like-

    27. JR

      Wow.

    28. KJ

      Every fight has been... Until now, because it's like now I have like more of a drive and a passion for it, but all the way up until then, everything kinda happened by coincidence or just like... I just, I didn't really...... want to fight but I had a lot of people like, "Oh, you're so good, like, keep doing it." And that was the first time in my life I've ever had people supporting me to, like, really do something that was big. And I was a new guy and I was in shape and, uh, I can... You know, girls are noticing me now-

    29. JR

      (laughs)

    30. KJ

      And, like, all these... my whole life changed within a year of, of training MMA, like-

  11. 44:19 – 56:14

    UFC acceleration, hard-sparring culture, and building a ‘will’ after key losses

    1. JR

      Is that... Like, when you hear about fighters, uh, particularly boxers, you hear, like, a really well-managed boxer will get fights to test him but with, with a guy that you could beat.

    2. KJ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      And you learn a different thing from each different fighter as you move up the ladder, and way more of them are undefeated when they finally get a, a shot-

    4. KJ

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      ... at either a title or a top contender. But in MMA, you could be fighting the top level guys within a couple of years of joining.

    6. KJ

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      And it could honestly be a couple years prior to that if you're particularly talented or you picked up martial arts. Like Ngannou, perfect example.

    8. KJ

      Perfect example.

    9. JR

      Francis Ngannou is like an incredible example-

    10. KJ

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... because he's really only done MMA for five years and he's still, right now, the scariest guy-

    12. KJ

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      ... in that cage. When he-

    14. KJ

      Exactly.

    15. JR

      When he's throwing bombs away, it's like you j- you just, like, go, "Uh, uh." When he knocked out Overeem, that was like an unca- that was an unheard of knockout.

    16. KJ

      Yeah. I sparred with him in, like, in preparation for that fight.

    17. JR

      Oof.

    18. KJ

      And I actually almost got hit with that same punch. But, yeah, we went, Francis and I, and I went three rounds, um, in the cage.

    19. JR

      Dude.

    20. KJ

      And then I remember, uh, Forrest was there and, and John, the head coach of Syndicate, and, uh, they were like, "Okay, you guys, tone it down," 'cause we were going at it. And it wa- I mean, like, it was fun. Like, I like to go hard.

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. KJ

      But, um-

    23. JR

      How often, though?

    24. KJ

      How often do I like to go hard?

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. KJ

      Uh, every now and then. Yeah, every now and then.

    27. JR

      Do you do mostly technical?

    28. KJ

      Yeah. So like, in Thailand right now, it's like everyday technical-

    29. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    30. KJ

      ... one day sparring. Or one or two days sparring, yeah.

  12. 56:14 – 1:00:09

    Weight cutting, hydration testing, and the UFC PI’s science-driven support

    1. JR

      How much do you cut?

    2. KJ

      This fight I cut 19, 19 pounds and that's a lot.

    3. JR

      Mm.

    4. KJ

      Usually, I usually cut maybe four to seven pounds.

    5. JR

      Wow.

    6. KJ

      The last couple fights, I've j- I just coasted. But when I went to Thailand (laughs) there was a lot of sugar and a lot of stuff that I was eating out there, man.

    7. JR

      Is that really what it was?

    8. KJ

      Yeah, when I, I was in Bangkok for a long time and it's just a lot of street food, a lot of fried food and stuff. And I was just there and I'm like, "I'm gonna try everything." So once I got to Phuket, they actually have, like, health food stuff, vegan stuff. They have a lot of tourists there, so especially on the street. So the street that Tiger's on, all gyms. It's like five or six CrossFit gyms, maybe 10 restaurants, health food restaurants, everything. So I was able to stay on track there, so just, I was just back just a few weeks. Yeah, but I still made weight, so that was good. (laughs)

    9. JR

      S- that's a lot of weight to cut though, right? Like-

    10. KJ

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... you like to cut, like, about five or six, is that what you're saying?

    12. KJ

      Yeah, yeah.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. KJ

      No more than eight. Like, eight is pushing it for me, so.

    15. JR

      What, what difference do you feel?

    16. KJ

      Uh, the day after I didn't... With their rehydration method, I felt amazing. Usually if w- cutting that much I'd feel a little bit bloated, little heavy-

    17. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    18. KJ

      ... sleepy or all that stuff, but-

    19. JR

      This, when you're talking... D- did you ever do IV or would you j-

    20. KJ

      I did do IV, yeah, when I used to fight in the RFA at, um-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. KJ

      ... at 185. I used to fight at 185.

    23. JR

      Oh my God.

    24. KJ

      Yeah, that was...

    25. JR

      That's hilarious. How much did you cut?

    26. KJ

      Oh, I used to cut from, I tried to get as close to 200 as possible and then cut-

    27. JR

      Wow.

    28. KJ

      ... the 15. So-

    29. JR

      You must have been super skinny at 200 too.

    30. KJ

      Terrible.

  13. 1:00:09 – 1:25:53

    Thailand training structure: mandatory runs, drilling over talking, and building a signature style

    1. JR

      So you said you like to start your day off with a run, um, are you doing that every day?

    2. KJ

      Yeah, definitely.

    3. JR

      Really?

    4. KJ

      So that's one thing that I learned too is just training every day, not learn, but it just feels different. Now I, I, I have to go and train every day. When I was in Vegas, like, "Oh, I gotta drive 30 minutes," you know, all these things I had a lot of excuses to make up and now with the convenience of how training is now, I don't even make up excuses. I'm like, if I'm tired, I still, it's a two-minute walk, get your ass to the gym, you know?

    5. JR

      Right.

    6. KJ

      And so, yeah, every, every single day training and then weekends off for sure.

    7. JR

      So you're running every single day, then you're training every single day?

    8. KJ

      Before Muay Thai, it's mandatory you, you run. That's how they train.

    9. JR

      That's, like, that's how they train? Really?

    10. KJ

      The trainers won't even let you train unless you run first.

    11. JR

      How-

    12. KJ

      You show up, you run. The day, the first day I showed up, uh, at, at Tiger's Muay Thai class, I didn't even have tennis shoes, I just showed up with my flip-flops 'cause I was staying right across the street. And I showed up, I start wrapping my hands and the trainer, he's like, "Are you gonna train?" And I was like, "Yeah, I think so." He's like, "You think so? Well, go run." And I was like, "I don't have shoes, I only have my flip-flops." And he's like-... just pointed like, "So? Go run." And I had to run like, I think it was like eight kilometers in- in flip-flops before I could-

    13. JR

      Jesus.

    14. KJ

      ... even train. Yeah.

    15. JR

      That's like four miles, right?

    16. KJ

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      Somewhere around there? Five and a half. Five and a half?

    18. KJ

      Yeah. It's like f- four, like four miles, something like that. We just had to run, run, run, run, run, run.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. KJ

      I asked the girls like, "How long do we run for?" She's like, "Usually like five to six kilometers," or something like that. It was like-

    21. JR

      Yeah. 5K is like three and a half miles. Yeah. I was gonna say that.

    22. KJ

      Yeah. Five... I'd say like just cutting it short, 5K.

    23. JR

      Wow.

    24. KJ

      And then w- in flip-flops.

    25. JR

      That's ruthless.

    26. KJ

      And I was like, "Okay, cool." Yeah. I never, I never forgot my shoes again. I would always show up.

    27. JR

      How bad that fuck your feet up?

    28. KJ

      It wasn't too bad, actually.

    29. JR

      No?

    30. KJ

      No, 'cause I wasn't wearing shoes a lot anyway.

Episode duration: 2:19:37

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