JRE MMA Show #71 with Rico Verhoeven

Joe Rogan 0:01 And boom. Right when you take a drink of water, that's when we go live, always. (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 0:05 That's when we go live, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:06 What's up, my friend?

Rico Verhoeven 0:07 I'm good.

Joe Rogan 0:07 Good to see you. Good to see you.

Rico Verhoeven 0:09 Yeah. Thanks for having me, bro.

Joe Rogan 0:09 My pleasure. I'm a big fan. I've been a fan for a long time.

Rico Verhoeven 0:12 Thank you so much.

Joe Rogan 0:12 And I'm very excited about this Badr Hari rematch.

Rico Verhoeven 0:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:14 So w- we were just talking about it.

Rico Verhoeven 0:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:16 That's gonna be in December.

Rico Verhoeven 0:17 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 0:18 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 0:18 It's gonna be huge. It's, uh, I think it's, uh, gonna be the biggest fight in kickboxing history.

Joe Rogan 0:22 I think it's already.

Rico Verhoeven 0:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:23 I mean, you were just saying that, that tickets go on pre-sale today, I think?

Rico Verhoeven 0:27 Yeah, today or tomorrow or something, so.

Joe Rogan 0:29 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 0:29 Um ...

Joe Rogan 0:30 Where is it gonna be held? Is it in Holland?

Rico Verhoeven 0:32 It, uh ... Yeah, it's gonna be in Holland, yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 0:34 Where at?

Rico Verhoeven 0:34 Um, it's called the Gelredome and it-

Joe Rogan 0:37 How many seats is that?

Rico Verhoeven 0:39 I believe around 25,000, 30,000.

Joe Rogan 0:43 Wow.

Rico Verhoeven 0:44 So that's huge.

Joe Rogan 0:44 It's crazy how big kickboxing is in Holland as oppair- as opposed to America.

Rico Verhoeven 0:48 Yeah, it's ... But Holland, Europe, it's-

Joe Rogan 0:50 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 0:50 ... it's a lot bigger than it is here.

Joe Rogan 0:52 It's so weird. I d- I do not, for the life of me, understand why it hasn't taken off in America. I don't get it.

Rico Verhoeven 0:59 Well, I think i- the- the step of going to MMA then to kickboxing is so much closer. P- for example, from high school, it's so much more logical f- w- when you do wrestling-

Joe Rogan 1:12 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:12 ... and you do a little bit of boxing, well, let's jump into MMA then-

Joe Rogan 1:15 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:15 ... because it's so close to each other and when you go to kickboxing, it's totally different.

Joe Rogan 1:20 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:20 It's totally different.

Joe Rogan 1:21 But so many people in America, when they watch MMA, they want guys to stand up.

Rico Verhoeven 1:25 (laughs) Yeah, I know, but-

Joe Rogan 1:27 That's why it doesn't make any sense.

Rico Verhoeven 1:28 ... but still, I think, like, every country is, like, very patriotic. They want their own guys-

Joe Rogan 1:34 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:34 ... to- to be very good at something.

Joe Rogan 1:36 Sort of. But, like, when Anderson Silva was at the top of the heap in- in MMA, everybody wanted to see him fight.

Rico Verhoeven 1:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43 It didn't matter that he was from Brazil.

Rico Verhoeven 1:45 Yeah, that's true.

Joe Rogan 1:45 In America, they still wanted to see him fight. It's just ... They wanna see high level stuff. I just-

Rico Verhoeven 1:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50 Ooh, everyone here is such a fan of knockouts-

Rico Verhoeven 1:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:53 ... and k- and striking, high level striking. I just don't understand it.

Rico Verhoeven 1:56 No.

Joe Rogan 1:57 Muay Thai, too. You c- m- Muay Thai doesn't sell at all.

Rico Verhoeven 2:00 No.

Joe Rogan 2:00 I mean, there's no big Muay Thai events.

Rico Verhoeven 2:03 Nope.

Joe Rogan 2:03 Like, they had a m- a pro Muay Thai league event here and it was in, like, Nicky Holzken fought on it and, um, Buakaw and, uh, a few other big name guys-

Rico Verhoeven 2:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:16 ... um, fought on it, but it was like, you know, nobody in the crowd.

Rico Verhoeven 2:19 No, but it's also, like, Muay Thai is also with the clinching and-

Joe Rogan 2:24 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 2:24 ... they hold too long.

Joe Rogan 2:25 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 2:25 It's- it's like ... I think it's a little bit boring. Like, w- what we do with Glory now is ... It's, like, more commercial-

Joe Rogan 2:32 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 2:33 ... 'cause you can hold, like, just for three, three seconds-

Joe Rogan 2:36 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 2:36 ... and then break and then continue, continue fighting.

Joe Rogan 2:40 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 2:40 So ... And in the end, that's what people wanna see.

Joe Rogan 2:43 I get that, but I like clinch work too and I like elbows. Elbows and knees in the clinch. You don't like it?

Rico Verhoeven 2:49 No.

Joe Rogan 2:49 No?

Rico Verhoeven 2:49 I like the knees, but the elbows-

Joe Rogan 2:52 No elbows?

Rico Verhoeven 2:52 No, uh ...

Joe Rogan 2:52 Too many cuts?

Rico Verhoeven 2:53 They're nasty, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:54 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 2:54 Very nasty, so ...

Joe Rogan 2:55 Cuts are nasty.

Rico Verhoeven 2:56 Yeah. So I ...

Joe Rogan 2:58 What do you think about how, like, the amateur Muay Thai guys have elbow pads?

Rico Verhoeven 3:02 Yeah, that- that's- that's ... I think that's good.

Joe Rogan 3:03 They're prob- A- and all that's p- prevent- For people who don't understand what we're talking about, it's weird that, uh, like, uh, we see, you can t- you can see with bare knuckle boxing-

Rico Verhoeven 3:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:11 Like, there's a lot of bare knuckle boxing f- matches now and you see these guys' faces are just getting destroyed.

Rico Verhoeven 3:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 3:16 I mean, they're just ripped apart.

Rico Verhoeven 3:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:17 It's crazy. Just the cuts.

Rico Verhoeven 3:19 Not healthy. (laughs) No.

Joe Rogan 3:20 No, it's not ... It's definitely not good for the longevity of your career.

Rico Verhoeven 3:23 No.

Joe Rogan 3:24 And so in amateur Muay Thai, they have these elbow pads that they wear and that would ... I mean, you still can knock guys out just as easily.

Rico Verhoeven 3:31 Yeah, yeah. For sure.

Joe Rogan 3:31 But you're not gonna get the cuts.

Rico Verhoeven 3:32 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Cuts are the big thing.

Rico Verhoeven 3:34 So I think that's- that's a- that's a good thing.

Joe Rogan 3:35 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 3:36 But I'm just not a big fan of, uh, of the elbow, uh, of the elbow work. But I love to see it, but I don't like to get it.

Joe Rogan 3:43 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 3:44 So I remem- I remember, I remember, uh, I was ... Where was I? Where was I? I think I was training with the Blackzilians, like, years ago. I think it was even before I beco- became champion. And I was training there, doing a little bit of MMA, helping some guys out, and I was training and somebody had just ... He said, on accident, he just pop, threw an elbow right on the nose.

Joe Rogan 4:07 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 4:07 And he just opened it up just a little bit and I was like, "What the hell are you doing?" "Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry." He just ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Just an accident?

Rico Verhoeven 4:16 Yeah, an accident. So ...

Joe Rogan 4:18 Well-

Rico Verhoeven 4:18 I gave him a few extra low kicks after this, so ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:21 (laughs) In MMA, I mean, it's such a staple technique-

Rico Verhoeven 4:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:24 ... you know? It's probably hard to not do it.

Rico Verhoeven 4:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:27 You've had a couple MMA fights, right, homie?

Rico Verhoeven 4:28 One, one.

Joe Rogan 4:29 Just one?

Rico Verhoeven 4:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:29 And you mounted the guy.

Rico Verhoeven 4:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:31 That was what was crazy.

Rico Verhoeven 4:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:32 He took him to the ground.

Rico Verhoeven 4:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:33 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 4:34 Uh, I was like, "Let's- let's give it a try." When we're in-

Joe Rogan 4:36 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 4:36 When we're in there, we gotta try everything.

Joe Rogan 4:38 But when I saw it, I was like, "Damn, if he makes his way to MMA ..." Because the heavyweight division, particularly in the UFC, is extremely shallow.

Rico Verhoeven 4:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:46 Extremely shallow. I mean, you have some great talent, but there's, like, four, five really good fighters.

Rico Verhoeven 4:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:51 You know? It's like there's obviously Cormier, there's Stipe, uh, Francis Ngannou, there's a few other guys, but it's y- you know, with a couple of wins, you're in the- the mix for a heavyweight title shot.

Rico Verhoeven 5:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:04 You know? Have you ever thought about doing that?

Rico Verhoeven 5:06 Uh, I've thought about it.

Joe Rogan 5:07 Thought about it?

Rico Verhoeven 5:07 (laughs) Thought about it.

Joe Rogan 5:08 How old- You're still young, right?

Rico Verhoeven 5:09 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:09 How old are you?

Rico Verhoeven 5:09 30.

Joe Rogan 5:10 Yeah. So you-

Rico Verhoeven 5:10 So-

Joe Rogan 5:11 Which is crazy because you've had a lot of fights, right?

Rico Verhoeven 5:14 Yeah, yeah. I had about 60, 70 fights.

Joe Rogan 5:16 Yeah, that's crazy.

Rico Verhoeven 5:18 So-

Joe Rogan 5:18 You know? And it's, um ... And- but the thing is as a European, like, fighting in Glory, like, th- it's a ... That's what people don't understand. It is e- enormous overseas.

Rico Verhoeven 5:30 Yeah. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 5:31 It's- it's hard for people to ... In America, they're like, "What? Kickboxing?" But if you go to see those events ... I mean, I watch all of them.

Rico Verhoeven 5:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:36 You watch the events on television, it's like fucking crazy packed crowds and-

Rico Verhoeven 5:40 Yeah, it's always full.

Joe Rogan 5:40 The first fight you had with Badr, holy shit, was that crowd hot.

Rico Verhoeven 5:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:44 That was a wild crowd there.

Rico Verhoeven 5:46 Yeah, they even, like, jumped through the- through the ropes and it-

Joe Rogan 5:48 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 5:48 Everyth- everything went crazy, so ...

Joe Rogan 5:51 Well, it ended in a fucked up way.

Rico Verhoeven 5:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:54 You know? Uh, Badr said his arm was hurt. Like, what was the ... Did- did he get an MRI or anything like that?

Rico Verhoeven 6:00 I have no clue. Not from the organization or something, so ...Yeah, he did some bandage or something over his arm in the ne- because that's what he posted on Instagram, but... I don't know. I don't know. For me, it was, um... Yeah, you know, it was like a anticlimax, that fight.

Joe Rogan 6:18 Yes.

Rico Verhoeven 6:19 There wasn't the way I wanted to end that fight.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 6:21 But f- I think for the rest, for, uh, for him, this was the perfect way to end the fight, because this is the way you co- you could get a rematch.

Joe Rogan 6:30 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 6:30 Because if he would, would have lost, no point in doing a rematch. If he would get knocked out, no point in doing a rematch. So... Well, my feeling-

Joe Rogan 6:39 Well, unless it was a really close fight and then you eventually won.

Rico Verhoeven 6:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:43 You know?

Rico Verhoeven 6:44 But for m- for my feeling, uh, everybody said like, "Yeah, but, uh, Rico walked into the jabs the first round and everything." That's true, but I was pressuring him. I was pressuring him the whole time, and I was trying to feel like where is my distance where I can hit and where I can... where I get hit.

Joe Rogan 7:03 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 7:03 So... And of course, that's...

Joe Rogan 7:05 Right, you get tagged.

Rico Verhoeven 7:06 Yeah, you, you, yeah, you get tagged-

Joe Rogan 7:06 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 7:06 ... sometimes. So my, my nose was already, uh... During training, my nose opened up, so when he hit it, it opened up again. So I was like, "Yeah, it is what it is." You know?

Joe Rogan 7:16 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 7:17 I'm, I'm not really bothered by it. So I was pressuring, pressuring, and I was like, "Okay. Now I got, now I got it." So after that first round... And, yeah, then we jumped into the second round. I was fit, I was ready for, I was ready for this fight. And that's what I like to do. I would like to drag people into the deep waters.

Joe Rogan 7:35 Well, you're very fit for a heavyweight. You have crazy cardio. That's one of the things that I've always admired about your fighting style, is that you put insane pressure on guys for a heavyweight. 'Cause heavyweights, bigger guys tend to fight at a slower pace-

Rico Verhoeven 7:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:49 ... and with less volume. But you, you push a pace. And when the fight gets to the third, fourth, and fifth rounds, you fucking pile it on, man.

Rico Verhoeven 7:57 Yeah, because I've been training with, uh, light guys for, like, my whole career. So when I started at the gym, I started at... with Super Pro Sport Center, uh, with Denis Cariou, he had, uh, Albert Kraus, he was the first-

Joe Rogan 8:11 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 8:11 ... K-1, uh, max champion. And he had Alvarez de Lima, like multiple, uh, middleweight, uh, champion, world champion. So, I was working with those guys, like, every day. And they just kept on pressuring me and like ba-da-boom-ba-da-bum, ba-da-boom-ba-da-bum, ba-da-bum. I was getting my ass whooped, like-

Joe Rogan 8:30 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 8:30 ... almost every day by, like, guys that weigh, like, 75 kilos. So, I was like, "I can keep hitting him, keep hitting those guys hard or just go with less power and pressure them like they try to pressure me." And of course, in the beginning, it's like still you get tired, but at a certain moment, you get like, "Hey, this is going better." And just-

Joe Rogan 8:54 Right. You build up that endurance.

Rico Verhoeven 8:55 ... not try to hit them... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:56 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 8:56 You tu- don't try to hit them hard, but just try to keep the work. Bah-bah-bah, like a machine gun.

Joe Rogan 9:00 Now, is that something that happens in a fight as well where you have to balance out how hard you swing versus, like, uh, not going full blast, but going technical-

Rico Verhoeven 9:09 Of course.

Joe Rogan 9:10 ... knowing that you can, uh, start unloading in the third, fourth, and fifth rounds when you start to see them fade?

Rico Verhoeven 9:14 Of course, but it's... For me, it's like I'm playing a game. For me, this is... We always say fighting is a thinking man's game, because fighting, everybody can fight. When they have to, everybody can fight. When... Doesn't matter what person, when you put him in a corner and it's life or death, everybody can fight. But it's, it's so much more than that.

Joe Rogan 9:38 Yes.

Rico Verhoeven 9:38 It's so much more than just fighting, so... And that's try- how I try to, uh, step into the ring with that mentality. Like, it's a, it's, it's a game.

Joe Rogan 9:45 People don't understand that, who've never competed, the managing of the resources-

Rico Verhoeven 9:49 Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:50 ... is a big factor.

Rico Verhoeven 9:51 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 9:52 Right? Like when do you decide to hit the gas? And you see, like, guys... In MMA, you see it with a guy like Nick Diaz. Like, Nick Diaz is famous for not hitting guys hard. He just stays on you.

Rico Verhoeven 10:02 Yeah. Bah-bah-bah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:02 He just stays on you with a lot of volume, and then you get tired-

Rico Verhoeven 10:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:06 ... and then, then he starts unloading.

Rico Verhoeven 10:07 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 10:08 You know, with big shots.

Rico Verhoeven 10:09 So, and that's, that's what I like to do. Um, the biggest compliment I could get from an opponent, and I had it like for my, like my last six opponents, I got like three or four times, they said like, "Rico, now I understand why you are the champion. I fought everybody, but this, I've never felt before. And you're on a different level." And that's the biggest compliment I could get because I'm in the, in the ring for five rounds with this guy and they, they got every opportunity to do everything they've trained for with me for five rounds. So I didn't knock them out, we just fought for five rounds, but they just did not know what to do. And that's, yeah, for me, the biggest compliment I could get.

Joe Rogan 10:55 Yeah, to be technical and to just play your game.

Rico Verhoeven 10:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 10:58 Yeah. I, I really loved your rematch with, uh, Jamal Ben Saddik.

Rico Verhoeven 11:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:02 That was one of my favorite fights with you, that was.

Rico Verhoeven 11:03 I believe that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:04 It was a great fight.

Rico Verhoeven 11:05 It's like... It... That was like a... The, the full Rocky version of a fight that people-

Joe Rogan 11:10 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 11:10 ... would love to see. You get tagged in the beginning-

Joe Rogan 11:12 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 11:13 ... and then you finish it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:14 Overwhelmed him, and then when you put him away, I was like, "Holy shit, what a fight."

Rico Verhoeven 11:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:19 What a fight that was. That guy's a big motherfucker too.

Rico Verhoeven 11:21 Yeah. He's a big guy. And, uh, like, I lost against him, like, back in the days, and... when I was, like, just a little, little kid. And so this fight brought something with it as well. It's like, "Yeah, he's the champion now, but I beat him." But it was like six, seven years ago. I'm a totally different fighter than I was back then-

Joe Rogan 11:41 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 11:41 ... so I said, "Let's go. I'm ready for you." So, yeah, this was the, the, the best thing. And he, he spit in my face during a press conference, so I got some extra motivation for that fight. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:54 (laughs) Well, you played it out perfectly too, where even when he hit you and hurt you early in the fight, you stayed calm, you didn't get emotional, you used good defense, and then once you got him into the deep water... You stopped him in the fourth?

Rico Verhoeven 12:08 In the fifth.

Joe Rogan 12:09 Fifth round.

Rico Verhoeven 12:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:10 Once you got him into deep water, then you piled it on and then put him away.

Rico Verhoeven 12:13 But then again, it's the same thing for me. Everybody asks like, "But how did you do that?"

Joe Rogan 12:18 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 12:18 "You got tagged." And I said, "But...... then again, like I said, it's a thinking man's game.

Joe Rogan 12:24 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 12:24 So I get hit. From my p- my point of view, I made a mistake. I switched to southpaw, but instead of switching and stepping outside of his front leg, I was right in front of his, uh, of his leg, and he was just throwing a lef- uh, a left-right, and I was wh- walked straight into that. And that's wha- that's what happened.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 12:46 It's not that, from my p- point of view, that he timed that.

Joe Rogan 12:50 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 12:50 So it happened, and from that moment, I can do two things. I can think, "Okay, I can jump into the fight and try to get that point or whatever, that moment back, or just think in my mind like, 'Okay, fuck it. You lost this round.' " Take it and let's go fresh into the second.

Joe Rogan 13:10 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 13:10 That's what I did.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 13:11 So just think about, "Okay, I lost this round, but I got four more to go." And I got back into the corner, and my trainer says, "Hey, you back?" I say, "Yep." "Okay, he's tired now."

Joe Rogan 13:23 Yeah, when he tried to unload on you, he emptied out a lot of the gas tank-

Rico Verhoeven 13:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:27 ... when he had you hurt.

Rico Verhoeven 13:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:29 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 13:30 So that's the-

Joe Rogan 13:30 That's the game, right?

Rico Verhoeven 13:31 That's part-

Joe Rogan 13:31 Trying to figure out when you can finish and when you can't.

Rico Verhoeven 13:33 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 13:34 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 13:35 Just stay focused, stay relaxed, and of course, he, he hit me with some, some good shots, but-

Joe Rogan 13:40 Well, he's a big, powerful guy.

Rico Verhoeven 13:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:42 He's always a dangerous fighter. That, that guy's huge.

Rico Verhoeven 13:44 Yeah, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 13:44 What is he, like, 6'9", 6'10" or something like that?

Rico Verhoeven 13:46 Yeah, something like that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:47 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 13:48 And then, yeah, it's, uh, he, he's huge and, like, 270 pounds, I think.

Joe Rogan 13:53 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 13:53 So that's, that's a, that's a-

Joe Rogan 13:54 Big motherfucker. (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 13:55 That's a big motherfucker. So, and then he's like, "Yeah, now it's 1-1." I said, "Come on, man. I- you beat me in, like, six, seven years." I beat you last year.

Joe Rogan 14:04 Oh, he wants another fight?

Rico Verhoeven 14:05 Yeah, he wants another-

Joe Rogan 14:05 How many fights has he had since then?

Rico Verhoeven 14:07 I don't know. He, he won a tournament last year.

Joe Rogan 14:09 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 14:10 So he'll...

Joe Rogan 14:11 He's had a few.

Rico Verhoeven 14:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:12 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 14:12 So maybe that fight is gonna come, but like I said, now I'm in, uh... Like last year, the 31st of December, my contract, uh, was finished with Glory. So we've been in negotiations ever since. So from that moment on, I said, "In my last contract, you guys told me the Badr fight was gonna happen, and it didn't happen. So that's what I want first. Give me the Badr fight, and from that moment on, we're gonna discuss."

Joe Rogan 14:38 Yeah. For-

Rico Verhoeven 14:38 So that's what we're doing now.

Joe Rogan 14:39 ... people who don't know the sport, Badr Hari is one of the biggest names in the sport, like, forever. He's, he's a guy who... He's stopped Alistair Overeem. He, you know, he's fought in K-1. He-

Rico Verhoeven 14:51 He fought everybody.

Joe Rogan 14:52 He fought everybody.

Rico Verhoeven 14:52 Semmy Schilt, Peter Aerts, whatever, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:54 I mean, he, he's a fucking wild man too.

Rico Verhoeven 14:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:56 You know, but h- he hasn't fought in high-level competition for a long time.

Rico Verhoeven 15:01 No.

Joe Rogan 15:01 And then he fought you.

Rico Verhoeven 15:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:03 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 15:04 Yeah, so the thing was everybody was, uh... I was beating everybody. I was champion and I was beating everybody. People said, "Yeah, Rico's good. He's the champion, but he hasn't fought Badr." I was like, "Hey, if he w-" So our national television said, "Hey, if he wants to fight, let's go."

Joe Rogan 15:22 But he had been dealing with a bunch of legal trouble. He went to jail.

Rico Verhoeven 15:24 Yes, he had a lot of problems, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:25 He broke someone's leg in a club.

Rico Verhoeven 15:27 Yeah, a lot, a lot of shit, so-

Joe Rogan 15:29 Yeah. Crazy shit.

Rico Verhoeven 15:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:29 There's a video of him slapping some guy's face at a, at a-

Rico Verhoeven 15:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:32 ... in a hotel.

Rico Verhoeven 15:33 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:34 (laughs) Imagine that guy slapping your face. You're some poor dude-

Rico Verhoeven 15:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:36 ... working behind a counter.

Rico Verhoeven 15:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:38 Badr comes in like, "Yikes."

Rico Verhoeven 15:40 Yikes.

Joe Rogan 15:40 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 15:40 Yeah. "Do whatever you want."

Joe Rogan 15:41 (laughs) "Here, take the keys here." (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 15:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:44 "Which room would you like?"

Rico Verhoeven 15:45 "The hotel, the hotel is yours." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:46 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 15:47 So, so yeah, he had a bunch of problems, but then the- eventually, the fight happened because that's the fight that people wanted to see.

Joe Rogan 15:53 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 15:54 But for me, it was just, like, another fight.

Joe Rogan 15:57 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 15:57 And then the fight had end- the fight ended that way. Uh, yeah, that was too bad, so. But now we can do it again.

Joe Rogan 16:04 Yeah. So the fight was quite a while ago. How long ago was that?

Rico Verhoeven 16:08 2016.

Joe Rogan 16:10 Yeah. That's a... Why did it take so long for the rematch?

Rico Verhoeven 16:13 Uh, pff, yeah, there was a bunch of stuff going on in between, and, like, last year, he fought Hesdy Gerges, also a good kickboxer. I believe he's now doing MMA in Bellator. And-

Joe Rogan 16:25 And he's fought Hesdy before, right?

Rico Verhoeven 16:26 He got... Yeah, he fought Hesdy before, but got disqualified, so-

Joe Rogan 16:29 Oh, that's right. He stomped him when he was on the ground.

Rico Verhoeven 16:31 He stomped him on the ground, yeah. So-

Joe Rogan 16:32 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 16:32 So, uh, so, and, but after that fight-

Joe Rogan 16:33 That's why he's so crazy. (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 16:35 Yeah, he's... (laughs) So, and then- and then the-

Joe Rogan 16:36 He's such a wild dude.

Rico Verhoeven 16:38 Yeah. And then after that fight, they both got, uh, got, uh, caught with using whatever.

Joe Rogan 16:44 Oh, steroids.

Rico Verhoeven 16:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:46 Oh.

Rico Verhoeven 16:47 So, so they, they both got suspended, and... Or, I believe Hesdy, Hesdy wasn't suspended. I don't know. But he, uh, got suspended till December this year, so that's why-

Joe Rogan 16:58 How did the fight go the last, when you fought last year with Hesdy?

Rico Verhoeven 17:02 Uh, he won. He won. But it wasn't easy, but he won.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Was it a loss? I mean, uh, a decision? Or was it-

Rico Verhoeven 17:08 It was decision, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:10 Yeah. Yeah, so for him, that was the first fight since your fight with him in 2016. Is that it?

Rico Verhoeven 17:16 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:16 'Cause he's been... 'Cause he's had a bunch of legal problems-

Rico Verhoeven 17:18 He's been so on and off, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:20 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 17:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:21 But, uh, and then now he's not training at Mike's Gym anymore as well, right?

Rico Verhoeven 17:24 No, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 17:25 Do you know who he's training with?

Rico Verhoeven 17:26 Um, yeah, I don't know his name, but I know, I know the guy, but don't know who he's training with.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Well, he looks good on Instagram.

Rico Verhoeven 17:33 Uh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 17:35 Looks very fit.

Rico Verhoeven 17:36 A lot of people look good.

Joe Rogan 17:37 Jacked.

Rico Verhoeven 17:37 A lot of people look good on Instagram, you know that.

Joe Rogan 17:39 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 17:39 But you see 'em in real life, they look totally different. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:42 Well, I'm sure he looks the same.

Rico Verhoeven 17:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:44 But it's, uh, it's, uh... What's interesting is when you're in high-level competition like he was, of course, in, you know, the days when he fought Alistair, before Alistair made the transition full-time to MMA, um, when he, before he came to Strikeforce and all that stuff, that's, that's a long time ago.

Rico Verhoeven 18:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:01 You know? It's, it's probably hard to get back in, I mean, and to jump straight into top-level competition, like Hesdy or especially like fighting you-

Rico Verhoeven 18:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:11 ... as the champion.

Rico Verhoeven 18:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:13 That's a big leap, right?

Rico Verhoeven 18:14 Yeah. So, but that's the thing now. We both have... So he fought last year March.

Joe Rogan 18:21 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 18:21 And I fought last year September. So because I'm-... was in negotia- and still am in negotiations with Glory for a new contract. So, it's, uh, it's both been a while for us. But I've been, before that, I was like in a crazy-

Joe Rogan 18:36 Much more active.

Rico Verhoeven 18:36 ... yeah-

Joe Rogan 18:36 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 18:36 ... crazy, active flow.

Joe Rogan 18:38 Yeah. Yeah, you definitely have much more momentum. And just, there's a thing about fighting too, when guys take a long time off, it's almost like they, they lose the feel for it.

Rico Verhoeven 18:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:48 They lose, you, you know how... Obviously, they know how to kick, they know how to punch, they know what to do, they're in shape.

Rico Verhoeven 18:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:54 But there's a feel that they have for the ring, for-

Rico Verhoeven 18:57 Exactly. Exactly. There's s-, there's this, this is, where people don't underst- like, "Hey, you step in the ring and that's what, that's what you do. That's what you were born to do." That's true, but you need that attention, you need that vibe of walking towards the ring, stepping into the ring. All those people looking at you at that moment, that's a certain type of feeling that you get and-

Joe Rogan 19:21 You gotta be comfortable with it.

Rico Verhoeven 19:22 Yeah, and that, that's exactly what it is.

Joe Rogan 19:24 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 19:24 You gotta feel comfortable. And the only way you can be comfortable and stay comfortable is being active.

Joe Rogan 19:29 Yes, being active is very, it's just so critical for a fighter. When you, when a guy takes a year off or two years off, or three, I mean, it's like, oof. The more the time is-

Rico Verhoeven 19:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:38 ... the more it becomes problematic.

Rico Verhoeven 19:40 Yeah. And the older you get, that's the-

Joe Rogan 19:42 Yeah. How old is Badr now?

Rico Verhoeven 19:44 35, I think.

Joe Rogan 19:46 Hmm. So-

Rico Verhoeven 19:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:48 Does Glory drug test?

Rico Verhoeven 19:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:50 They do?

Rico Verhoeven 19:50 That's w-, that's how he got caught.

Joe Rogan 19:52 Was it him or was it an athletic commission? I mean, was it Glory or was it a-

Rico Verhoeven 19:56 Uh, no, it's not Glory. It's an Dutch, uh-

Joe Rogan 19:58 Like a local-

Rico Verhoeven 19:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:58 ... like a Dutch Athletic Commission?

Rico Verhoeven 20:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:00 And so they're gonna drug test for this fight as well?

Rico Verhoeven 20:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:02 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 20:02 Yeah, for sure. So I, I got tested like every, every time.

Joe Rogan 20:07 Is it like WADA testing, like the same standards? The World-

Rico Verhoeven 20:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:10 ... Anti-Doping Agency?

Rico Verhoeven 20:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:13 Like the same standards? So they like wake you up like seven o'clock in the morning, "Hey, Rico."

Rico Verhoeven 20:16 Oh, no. No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 20:17 No?

Rico Verhoeven 20:17 Oh, that's not the testing. They just test at the events.

Joe Rogan 20:20 Oh.

Rico Verhoeven 20:20 So duh, I, I would even rather have that-

Joe Rogan 20:23 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 20:23 ... than just wake up and random come test. But that's not what they, that they do there, but they test like really strict when you're, when you're there.

Joe Rogan 20:30 Yeah, that's, that's a little bit easier to pass, though.

Rico Verhoeven 20:33 That's true.

Joe Rogan 20:33 No, that's a lot easier to pass, I should say.

Rico Verhoeven 20:35 I have no clue.

Joe Rogan 20:36 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 20:36 I don't know what to do or what ways there are to... Because I'm not on it.

Joe Rogan 20:41 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 20:41 I don't wanna stay busi- I don't wanna think about it.

Joe Rogan 20:44 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 20:44 But whatever, you know, I just jump in there and just do what I gotta do. But that's why I told Glory now f- again after this whole issue, because a lot of people were caught li- last year and they didn't expect that. I was like, "Hey, we gotta keep doing this because this is the way we make the sport clean."

Joe Rogan 21:06 Yes.

Rico Verhoeven 21:06 And I think that's what we deserve because we, yeah, we are, we are a good sport. We are all athletes. But I wanna be safe in the ring. And what do you mean with safe? You're going into a fight, I understand, but somebody that uses whatever can maybe just punch a little bit harder in the beginning of the fight or whatever and that's-

Joe Rogan 21:26 Have a little more endurance.

Rico Verhoeven 21:27 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:28 Hit you with some punches they wouldn't be able to hit you with. They're not on some shit.

Rico Verhoeven 21:31 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 21:31 So that's what I mean, uh, with telling Glory I wanna be safe when I'm in the ring.

Joe Rogan 21:36 Well, for sure. I mean, if, if one person's on it and one person's not, that's, you know, it's a, it's a giant advantage. Anybody says it's not is just lying to themselves.

Rico Verhoeven 21:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:47 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 21:48 So, but, um, in the end, you know, I just go in there and don't, I'm not even thinking about it.

Joe Rogan 21:53 Right. Well, it is the fight to make in kickboxing too. And if there's a fight that I could tell people, "Hey, you gotta watch. You, you really wanna know what kickboxing all about? Watch this fight."

Rico Verhoeven 22:02 This fight.

Joe Rogan 22:02 That is the fight. Because Badr is such a wild man and he's such a knockout artist. And you obviously one of the most successful heavyweights ever. You know, I mean, your, uh, your kickboxing record in Glory, I mean, just the highlight reel's amazing. You've had so many great fights over there too.

Rico Verhoeven 22:16 Yeah, I've been doing so good. I really enjoy myself. And that's what I said, I wanna bring kickboxing to a new level. Like then, especially when you go now in Holland, like normally in Holland it was like soccer or whatever, cycling or ice skating. That's where parents would bring their kids to and, uh, "Do that, do kickbox, go do kickboxing."

Joe Rogan 22:38 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 22:38 And now they're like, "Hey, kickbox, this is cool because Rico does it."

Joe Rogan 22:40 When did that change?

Rico Verhoeven 22:42 I think like two, three years ago.

Joe Rogan 22:44 What, what made it change?

Rico Verhoeven 22:46 I think, uh, because of the Badr fight that was... So we were getting, we were getting more airtime and after the Badr fight and everything that happened around him and that was surrounding him, like w- with the things you said, what happened outside in the club and this and that.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 23:03 He was like the national asshole.

Joe Rogan 23:06 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 23:06 And I, and I was like the national good guy 'cause everybody-

Joe Rogan 23:09 (laughs) Right.

Rico Verhoeven 23:10 So, and that was like the perfect clash. And then, of course, yeah, I beat him so everybody was like, "Oh, shit, he's, he's our hero." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:19 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 23:19 So that, that's ex- that's how everything a little bit exploded. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 23:24 But again, for you that's unsatisfying the way it happened, though, that he gets his arm injured.

Rico Verhoeven 23:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:28 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 23:29 In whatever way, reason or whatever he thinks happened. But like-

Joe Rogan 23:34 Because you're suspicious about it.

Rico Verhoeven 23:35 I'm suspicious about it. So because he's looking at one arm, then looking at the other arm, and it just, it's a fake thing for me. But it's li- but that's what I have with this whole thing that he tries to create. It's like when he's getting announced and everything, he's like, "Yeah, Badr Hari, 110 something fights and 90 knockouts." But I- I'm obsessed with what I'm doing. I'm, uh, when I'm, when I fight and when I have an opponent and I'm fighting, I'm looking for everything. I wanna know everything about you. And everything these days you can find on the internet. So when I'm looking on the internet, and for example, you look at Wikipedia and you're looking all, all the fights from back in the days, K-1 days and even before that, you maybe get to 60, 70 fights.... so, where are the other fights? Does that mean, like, when you were younger in the youth period, you did like 40-something fights, and did you knock everybody out? I don't know. My trainer's been there for years, even before that, and he doesn't know about it. So, that's strange, because everything is documented on, on the internet, everything you can find on the internet. So-

Joe Rogan 24:52 So you think his record's inflated?

Rico Verhoeven 24:55 ... I think so.

Joe Rogan 24:56 He's got some crazy knockouts, though.

Rico Verhoeven 24:57 He got ... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:59 You're talking about ... That's Stephan Leko, that ... The wheel kick?

Rico Verhoeven 25:01 Yeah, the wheel kick's crazy.

Joe Rogan 25:02 Woo.

Rico Verhoeven 25:02 But that's what I said. He got ... He, he, he, he's got that.

Joe Rogan 25:05 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 25:06 He's got amazing records.

Joe Rogan 25:08 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 25:09 But I think it's not as crazy as they make it to be.

Joe Rogan 25:13 Which is crazy, because the, the reality is pretty crazy. I mean, you don't need to hype it up any more than it really is.

Rico Verhoeven 25:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:20 Right?

Rico Verhoeven 25:20 No, but it's been there for years, like, "Hey, you did 100-something fights and so many knockouts."

Joe Rogan 25:25 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 25:25 But when I look at it, it ... I can't find it.

Joe Rogan 25:28 Hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 25:29 Because-

Joe Rogan 25:29 I see what you're saying.

Rico Verhoeven 25:29 ... th- but maybe it's there. Maybe it's there. Maybe it's from years ago, whatever. I don't know. But that's all that I'm looking at.

Joe Rogan 25:35 You're suspicious.

Rico Verhoeven 25:36 I'm suspicious about it, because when I look at Wikipedia, and I'm looking when he was around ... It starts from when he was around 16 till now, it's like 60, 70 fights.

Joe Rogan 25:45 It's funny when you look at him in the early days too, he was so skinny.

Rico Verhoeven 25:47 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:48 Like even when he fought Stephan Leko-

Rico Verhoeven 25:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:50 ... you know? And then now he's just fucking jacked.

Rico Verhoeven 25:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:53 But he put so much time into strength, strength and conditioning workouts. You could see like he's always doing some crazy strength routine.

Rico Verhoeven 26:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:01 Yeah. So-

Rico Verhoeven 26:03 But-

Joe Rogan 26:03 Do you do a lot of strength and conditioning? Like, what, what are, what are your workouts like as opposed to ... Like how much skill work do you do and how much strength and conditioning work?

Rico Verhoeven 26:10 Uh, I think it's pretty even balanced out. I think, uh, I train strength like three times a week. But, uh, even my strength routine is so balanced out with doing strength, and in the same, uh, muscle group, I also do conditioning. So first, I do low reps, and then I do a lot of reps, because these muscles aren't ... For me, aren't supposed to be big. They need to be strong, and they can be ... They need to be making the same punch 50 times with the same strength.

Joe Rogan 26:43 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 26:43 So not 10 times really hard. No. 50 times on the same strength.

Joe Rogan 26:47 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 26:47 The same level. So that's how we approach that, and then, yeah, uh, we got skill training, like two, three times a week, uh, like pad work. Uh, I got explosive training, so I try to always look also at different sports, at soccer, at American football and at, it's ice skating, and they all have a certain type of explosiveness that they train in a certain way. So I try to pick everything from everywhere and work with that. So we created a training that we just use for explos- uh, for being explosive. So it has nothing to do with endurance, because it's maybe like 45 minutes, and it's just (snaps fingers) few secs. Pow. You go (snaps fingers) , come back. Go (snaps fingers) , you come back. Because logically, for a big guy, you're slow. When something is big and heavy, it's slow. And that's what we try to do. We try to be as fast as possible for a big guy.

Joe Rogan 27:49 So a lot of plyometric-type stuff.

Rico Verhoeven 27:50 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 27:51 Explosive-type stuff.

Rico Verhoeven 27:52 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:52 Yeah. Now, when-

Rico Verhoeven 27:52 Speed ladder-

Joe Rogan 27:53 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 27:53 ... and stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 27:54 Oh, okay. Yeah. So when you do this kinda stuff, when you were saying that you lift, um, low reps and then high reps-

Rico Verhoeven 28:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:01 ... so you do like heavy weights first?

Rico Verhoeven 28:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:03 So just to, to try to like max out or get the, the muscles very tired-

Rico Verhoeven 28:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:07 ... and then really wear 'em out with, with reps?

Rico Verhoeven 28:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:10 Is that what you're doing?

Rico Verhoeven 28:10 Yeah, but we never go max-max.

Joe Rogan 28:12 So ... Right, right, right.

Rico Verhoeven 28:13 So not like overmax, but we-

Joe Rogan 28:15 So you don't go to failure with like-

Rico Verhoeven 28:16 No.

Joe Rogan 28:16 ... heavy, heavy weights?

Rico Verhoeven 28:17 No.

Joe Rogan 28:18 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 28:18 No.

Joe Rogan 28:18 What kind of stuff are you doing? Are you doing like dumbbells, kettlebells, like ... ?

Rico Verhoeven 28:22 Uh, a lot of, a lot of dumbbells. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:23 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 28:24 As much as, um, much loose weight as possible. Like a few, uh, with the barbell, but as much with the, with the dumbbells because that's when you gotta keep in balance and work on that core and stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 28:35 Mm-hmm. So what about, uh, sparring? How, how often do you spar a week?

Rico Verhoeven 28:39 Uh, normally like twice to three times a week.

Joe Rogan 28:43 And when you do it, are you doing hard spa- I know, you're from Holland.

Rico Verhoeven 28:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:46 Those fucking Holland guys like-

Rico Verhoeven 28:47 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 28:47 ... to spar hard, man.

Rico Verhoeven 28:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:49 Do you do a lot of hard sparring? Is it more technical? Like how do you, how do you balance it out?

Rico Verhoeven 28:53 Um, it depends. Depends on who's, who's in, because now, in preparation, we're gonna fly guys in, and then, yeah, it's gonna be pretty tough sparring 'cause that's what you ... Yeah, what you got, what you get the guys for.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 29:08 But in the end, I'm always thinking about, hey, we do hard sparring, but we don't wanna injure each other.

Joe Rogan 29:14 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 29:15 There's no point for me in knocking guys out during sparring because then I don't have any sparring partners anymore.

Joe Rogan 29:22 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 29:23 So I do hard sparring, kick him hard on the legs, kick him hard on the body. And of course people get knock- knocked down, not knocked out, but-

Joe Rogan 29:33 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 29:33 ... knocked down.

Joe Rogan 29:33 But you don't go full blast to the head.

Rico Verhoeven 29:36 No.

Joe Rogan 29:36 That's a Holland thing, right? I mean, there's a lot of Dutch guys-

Rico Verhoeven 29:39 A lot of guys do it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:40 ... spar like that, yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 29:41 But it's ... We go, uh, we go pretty tough.

Joe Rogan 29:44 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 29:44 We go pretty tough to the, to the head, black eyes, bloody nose, but I'm always like 90% going.

Joe Rogan 29:53 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 29:53 I'm always looking at like, hey, or when I'm making a move, and I can make a head kick, I always try to ... When I see I'm gonna make a full hit, try to keep it back just a little bit.

Joe Rogan 30:05 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 30:06 So I think, yeah, but just being controlled, I think it's very important. So I train with all the guys, all the heavyweight guys from Glory, I trained with, with and of course you do hard sparring, but we do not ... I, I ... From my point of view, I don't, don't wanna injure them.

Joe Rogan 30:22 Right. Yeah, I mean, it only makes sense. I mean, that's one of the most valuable things, right, is to have high level training partners.

Rico Verhoeven 30:27 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 30:28 And if guys think you're gonna put 'em to sleep all the time, they're not really interested in sparring with you.

Rico Verhoeven 30:32 No. For example, I trained with Benny Adigbui. He's like the number two and number three in Glory. And-I fought him twice, but we trained together. He's now at my gym and I try to make him better. I say, "Hey, you try this, try that." And, uh-

Joe Rogan 30:48 Because if he's better, you're better.

Rico Verhoeven 30:50 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 30:50 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 30:50 And people are like, "No, no, no, I don't wanna train with competition because then they know what I'm gonna do." That's true, but you also know what they're doing.

Joe Rogan 30:58 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 30:58 So it just depends on how you approach things.

Joe Rogan 31:01 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 31:01 Uh, every negative thing has a positive thing at it as well. So that's... I really always... I'm always looking at the positive things and always try to surround myself with peop- people that are positive. And yeah, that's, that's the vibe that I'm, I'm going with because that's what works.

Joe Rogan 31:18 Well, that's also the mark of a confident fighter. Like, you know that you're the best. So if you help him, he's just gonna help you become even better than you are currently.

Rico Verhoeven 31:26 Yeah, but you gotta be... You gotta be comfortable with that because you also see a lot of guys that are like, "Hey, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna help that guy. I'm not gonna tell him whatever, because this is not gonna be good for me." But in the end, everybody that gets better can help me get better as well.

Joe Rogan 31:45 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 31:45 So I always put... position myself as, as a sponge, trying to get as much info in, in wherever I am. So for example, I'm now really going into acting. I want to, I want to act. So, uh, now Kevin was on your show as well.

Joe Rogan 32:02 Kevin Hart?

Rico Verhoeven 32:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:03 Yeah. So... I saw you were training with him.

Rico Verhoeven 32:04 Yeah. So it was a lot of fun.

Joe Rogan 32:05 The first kick he ever threw, he threw with you. (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 32:07 Yeah. So it was crazy. It was pretty...

Joe Rogan 32:09 He's a great guy, isn't he?

Rico Verhoeven 32:10 Yeah, he's such a good guy. But so s- so much positivity and he has such a great vibe and he's such a great mentor. And I was just sitting there, we were talking, and like I said, I would just position myself as a sponge.

Joe Rogan 32:25 Hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 32:25 I was just trying to get as much information in there as possible. And yeah, now I've been... I'm, uh, I'm here now in LA for about a month now. I've been training with, with Mark Wahlberg and also the same thing, just-

Joe Rogan 32:38 And Anthony Hardonk is here.

Rico Verhoeven 32:39 And Anthony Hardonk is here as well.

Joe Rogan 32:41 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 32:41 So it's, it's amazing because when you're in LA and you wanna do Dutch kickboxing, that's the place where you gotta go.

Joe Rogan 32:46 That's the guy.

Rico Verhoeven 32:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Yeah. Hardonk's awesome.

Rico Verhoeven 32:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:48 I love that guy.

Rico Verhoeven 32:48 Yeah, he's amazing. So, uh, so every time when I'm in LA, I'm gonna...

Joe Rogan 32:51 We should tell people where you go.

Rico Verhoeven 32:53 going to him.

Joe Rogan 32:53 It's Dyna- Dynamics.

Rico Verhoeven 32:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:54 Dynamics, uh...

Rico Verhoeven 32:54 Dynamics MMA.

Joe Rogan 32:56 MMA, which is in Santa Monica.

Rico Verhoeven 32:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:57 He's just said, uh, they're opening up another one that he's gonna run in, uh, West LA. He's a... He's just... He was... When he used to fight in the UFC, I used to love watching him fight because he was probably one of the best leg kickers ever in the heavyweight division.

Rico Verhoeven 33:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:09 He would just fuck guy's legs up.

Rico Verhoeven 33:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:12 You know, just so technical.

Rico Verhoeven 33:14 Yeah, so, so much fun. So last Saturday we, uh, we started sparring a little bit. So he said, "Yeah, I'm looking for a little bit of sparring." He said, okay, I said, he said, "I didn't do so... anything for 10 years, but I wanna do it. Just wanna help you out." I said, "It's good," but it's, "I just wanna move around, you know, I don't-

Joe Rogan 33:29 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 33:29 ... don't wanna kick nobody's ass. I just wanna-

Joe Rogan 33:31 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 33:31 ... move around." So that's what we did and we had a lot of fun. So, and then you still see he has that feeling.

Joe Rogan 33:36 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 33:36 He has that Dutch kickboxing touch. So it's, it's amazing.

Joe Rogan 33:40 Yeah. No, there's not a lot of, like, real high level Dutch kickboxing that you can get in California.

Rico Verhoeven 33:45 No.

Joe Rogan 33:45 Especially out here.

Rico Verhoeven 33:46 No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 33:46 He's definitely the guy to go to.

Rico Verhoeven 33:48 But just heavyweights is, is difficult. Heavyweight sparring is, it's hard.

Joe Rogan 33:52 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 33:52 Good level heavyweight sparring. So, yeah, we just keep, keep going around and that's, that's why I love being here. So actually I'm wa- I'm here for vacation, but when I'm here I gotta work as well, so-

Joe Rogan 34:04 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 34:05 ... I got to train.

Joe Rogan 34:05 So the fight is in December-

Rico Verhoeven 34:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:07 ... you were saying, right?

Rico Verhoeven 34:07 It's gonna be in December.

Joe Rogan 34:08 When in December?

Rico Verhoeven 34:09 Uh, the 21st.

Joe Rogan 34:09 Oh, okay. So right before Christmas.

Rico Verhoeven 34:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:11 Merry Christmas.

Rico Verhoeven 34:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:12 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 34:13 So that's what I said. I said, "Yeah, maybe we'll do it in January." Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Fuck, I wish it was in America.

Rico Verhoeven 34:17 We gotta do it in December.

Joe Rogan 34:18 I wish it was in America. I would love to see that shit.

Rico Verhoeven 34:20 Why?

Joe Rogan 34:21 Well, I don't wanna go to Holland.

Rico Verhoeven 34:22 Why not?

Joe Rogan 34:22 I'm busy. I love, uh...

Rico Verhoeven 34:23 Come on.

Joe Rogan 34:24 Listen, I love it. I'm too busy.

Rico Verhoeven 34:25 That was disrespectful. I don't wanna go to Holland. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:27 Listen, not that I don't love Holland.

Rico Verhoeven 34:28 Hey, you wanna, you wanna go-

Joe Rogan 34:29 I'm just busy.

Rico Verhoeven 34:30 You need to come to Holland, man. That's a lot of fun.

Joe Rogan 34:32 I'm sure.

Rico Verhoeven 34:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:34 I'm sure. It's be- But if it was in, like, Chicago or some shit I'd fly out. But Holland, that's a fucking... that's a long... that's a lot of flying.

Rico Verhoeven 34:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:40 That's a lot of time.

Rico Verhoeven 34:41 It's like 11 hours, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:42 11 hours on a plane.

Rico Verhoeven 34:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:43 Get jet lag, stay for a couple days. I don't have a week to spare.

Rico Verhoeven 34:48 No?

Joe Rogan 34:48 I wish.

Rico Verhoeven 34:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:49 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 34:50 Yeah, you're a busy man.

Joe Rogan 34:51 So you're out here trying to act too?

Rico Verhoeven 34:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:53 That's what you're gonna try to do?

Rico Verhoeven 34:54 Yeah, yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 34:54 So you're getting an agent and meeting with people and stuff like that?

Rico Verhoeven 34:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, um, I'm, uh, with, with Paradigm. It's mine, uh, it's my American management.

Joe Rogan 35:03 Now you're taking... You, you obviously speak fluent English.

Rico Verhoeven 35:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:06 But are you taking lessons to get better at it-

Rico Verhoeven 35:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:08 ... so you can act and-

Rico Verhoeven 35:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:09 ... all that jazz?

Rico Verhoeven 35:10 Yeah, yeah. The-

Joe Rogan 35:10 So that's your next goal.

Rico Verhoeven 35:11 Exactly. So, um, I'm, uh, still an active athlete, but I'm still looking at like, "Hey, what can I do next? Because I can't and I don't wanna do this for, like, 10 more years."

Joe Rogan 35:25 When do you wanna retire? Do you have a thought in your head?

Rico Verhoeven 35:28 I don't know. I mean, it depends on what, w-

Joe Rogan 35:30 Well, right now you're in your prime.

Rico Verhoeven 35:31 Yeah. So it depends on what, what comes on my, my route. So-

Joe Rogan 35:36 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 35:37 I'm still looking at... So now I'm in negotiations with Glory and everything.

Joe Rogan 35:39 How is Glory doing as an organization? Are they doing well?

Rico Verhoeven 35:43 Yeah, they're doing pretty good.

Joe Rogan 35:43 'Cause I know they were, they were struggling a little bit in America.

Rico Verhoeven 35:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:45 They were trying to-

Rico Verhoeven 35:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:47 But, uh, uh, do they still have events here in America?

Rico Verhoeven 35:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:50 Or less, though?

Rico Verhoeven 35:50 Yeah, yeah. But less, less than in the beginning.

Joe Rogan 35:52 Because Europe is... it's so much more-

Rico Verhoeven 35:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:54 ... successful over there.

Rico Verhoeven 35:55 So there we fill up, like, arenas.

Joe Rogan 35:57 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 35:57 But here we can get, like, five, ten thousand to attend this.

Joe Rogan 36:01 Well, I went to The Last Man Standing in LA when, uh-

Rico Verhoeven 36:04 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:04 ... Joe Schilling was there.

Rico Verhoeven 36:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Holy shit, was that crazy?

Rico Verhoeven 36:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:07 It was awesome. But, but I always tell people, like, you wanna see real high level striking...

Rico Verhoeven 36:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:12 You see high level striking in MMA, but with MMA there's all the other variables.

Rico Verhoeven 36:16 Yes, exactly.

Joe Rogan 36:16 There's takedowns and l- you know, small gloves, the whole deal. Like, if you really wanna see high level kickboxing-

Rico Verhoeven 36:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:22 ... Glo- Glory is where it's at.

Rico Verhoeven 36:23 Exactly. So that's for me, now where I'm at is like I'm still in negotiation with Glory for a new contract, and if we, s- in what way or the other we, we can't get out of it, so maybe I'm gonna do something else or, I don't know, I'm loo- I'm looking at the sport-... like, a totally different way. I don't wanna... I think the sport can totally be elevated in, in all certain ways, you know, in all different ways, because how crazy would it be to do mixed fights? It's fun to go from one guy, go do the other sport.

Joe Rogan 37:00 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 37:00 But how cool would it be that the other guy would go do the other sport as well?

Joe Rogan 37:04 So someone from MMA coming to kickboxing?

Rico Verhoeven 37:06 And the other way around.

Joe Rogan 37:07 Yeah. Well, the other way around, see... (sighs) I mean, I, I could see, like, Francis Ngannou, I think he would do really well in, in kickboxing-

Rico Verhoeven 37:16 Yeah, same.

Joe Rogan 37:16 ... because he's such a fucking ridiculously powerful striker.

Rico Verhoeven 37:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:20 He would do really well, but I don't think there's a lot of other... Well, I mean, obviously, Alistair, if Alistair really, uh, dedicated himself to it.

Rico Verhoeven 37:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:27 But he's chasing the goal of being the UFC heavyweight champion.

Rico Verhoeven 37:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:31 Yeah. I mean, who el- I mean, the only other organization is ONE, and ONE has... Uh, they, they do kickboxing as well now.

Rico Verhoeven 37:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:40 They do kickboxing and Muay Thai, and they do Muay Thai with little gloves-

Rico Verhoeven 37:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:44 ... which is kinda crazy.

Rico Verhoeven 37:45 So amazing. That was pretty crazy, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:45 Have you thought about doing that? No?

Rico Verhoeven 37:47 Not really. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:49 (laughs) You like the big gloves?

Rico Verhoeven 37:50 No, no. That's crazy, yeah. But I don't, I don't mind w- um, doing the small gloves, but kickboxing with small gloves is pretty insane.

Joe Rogan 37:57 How come?

Rico Verhoeven 37:57 Pretty intense. Because there's no way to block anything anymore.

Joe Rogan 38:03 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 38:04 It's just stand up-

Joe Rogan 38:05 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 38:05 ... and fight. You can just pull the gloves out and just do bare knuckle fight because it's almost the same.

Joe Rogan 38:10 (laughs) right. So in terms of like, for people who don't understand, when you have big gloves on, there's more... You can protect yourself more.

Rico Verhoeven 38:17 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 38:17 You can shell up better.

Rico Verhoeven 38:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:19 And defensively... You know Liam, Liam Harrison?

Rico Verhoeven 38:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:22 He fought in, uh, ONE-

Rico Verhoeven 38:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:24 ... with little gloves in Muay Thai, and he was like, "Holy fu-" He sent me a message. He's like, "Fucking brutal, man."

Rico Verhoeven 38:29 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:30 He's like, he's like, "I can't believe how hard it is."

Rico Verhoeven 38:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:32 "It's so much different."

Rico Verhoeven 38:33 Yeah, it's totally different.

Joe Rogan 38:34 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 38:34 You can't clean shoot and do whatever.

Joe Rogan 38:36 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 38:36 So, yeah, that's, that, that's pretty insane. So, but like I said, you know, it's, it's so much fun.

Joe Rogan 38:40 I don't know why ONE's doing that. I mean, 'cause I know they do have some matches where they wear big gloves too.

Rico Verhoeven 38:44 Yeah, just to, to push the limit.

Joe Rogan 38:45 Make it exciting.

Rico Verhoeven 38:46 Push the limit again.

Joe Rogan 38:47 Yeah. Well, they have so many different kinds of matches over there.

Rico Verhoeven 38:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:50 They even have grappling matches, like straight, straight grappling.

Rico Verhoeven 38:53 Yeah, I don't know that-

Joe Rogan 38:54 Well, have you been to ONE at all?

Rico Verhoeven 38:55 No.

Joe Rogan 38:55 Have you been? They're gigantic.

Rico Verhoeven 38:57 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 38:58 In Asia, fucking huge, man. They're big.

Rico Verhoeven 39:00 You been to... No?

Joe Rogan 39:01 No, but I've... A bunch of friends have gone over there to coach and even to fight and, you know, and a couple people from the UFC, Miesha Tate, she's uh, some... She has some executive position over there right now.

Rico Verhoeven 39:11 Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:11 Rich Franklin does as well.

Rico Verhoeven 39:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:13 Who used to be the middleweight champion in the UFC.

Rico Verhoeven 39:14 Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:15 So they, they, um, they have a bigger audience worldwide than the UFC does.

Rico Verhoeven 39:20 That's crazy, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:20 They're huge in Asia. Gi- just gigantic.

Rico Verhoeven 39:22 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 39:23 And it keeps getting bigger and bigger, and they got really high level fighters too.

Rico Verhoeven 39:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:26 So it's really interesting. But I know they're doing a lot of kickboxing as well.

Rico Verhoeven 39:29 Yeah. So who knows? Who knows in the future?

Joe Rogan 39:32 More the better, right?

Rico Verhoeven 39:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:33 More competition, the better.

Rico Verhoeven 39:34 Yeah, exactly, exactly, because that's what brings the whole sport up-

Joe Rogan 39:38 Yes.

Rico Verhoeven 39:39 ... to a new level.

Joe Rogan 39:39 Yes. Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 39:39 So that's, that's, that's perfect and that's cool. But it's like I said, it's... I just like to do different stuff.

Joe Rogan 39:46 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 39:46 And now, like I said, I don't wanna do... I don't wanna fight for another 10 years.

Joe Rogan 39:50 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 39:51 So let's see what, what, yeah, what's gonna happen, you know. I'm gonna make a movie either way, so I'm gonna start filming a movie beginning of next year, so that's, uh, that's pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 40:01 What's the movie?

Rico Verhoeven 40:02 Um, it's gonna be... It's like totally, uh, from blank we started it. So it's been, it's been written now. I got the first draft of the script, and it's, it's crazy. It's so cool.

Joe Rogan 40:13 Can you tell me what you do?

Rico Verhoeven 40:15 Uh, yeah. So I'm like a, like a black ops kinda guy. Uh, but something happens during operation, I stop because I think like, "Hey, this... What happened is crazy. I told them not to do this, and it's still, this happened, so I'm, I'm gonna stop." And yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:33 But they bring you back.

Rico Verhoeven 40:34 They... I, I get back.

Joe Rogan 40:35 You gotta go back and kick some ass.

Rico Verhoeven 40:36 Exactly. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 40:37 Shoot some people and kick 'em.

Rico Verhoeven 40:38 So, uh, so yeah, that's cool.

Joe Rogan 40:40 You get to kick people?

Rico Verhoeven 40:41 Of course, I got-

Joe Rogan 40:41 Of course. (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 40:42 But I'm not... That's the thing. I said, "I don't wanna be a fighter," because people already know me from fighting.

Joe Rogan 40:47 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 40:47 So I wanna do something else. I wanna really show my, my acting skills.

Joe Rogan 40:51 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 40:51 So that's gonna be, it's gonna be so much fun. And that's, that's what I get my excitement from because I love doing new stuff. I'm doing kickboxing since I was six years old.

Joe Rogan 41:00 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 41:00 I've been doing this like forever. So I wanna do something else as well, so th- th- this is gonna be a lot of fun.

Joe Rogan 41:06 It's a hard transition. The... Not a lot of people have been successful at it. Like, Randy Couture is probably the most successful at it.

Rico Verhoeven 41:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:12 You know, he's, he's got a real career as an actor now.

Rico Verhoeven 41:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:14 And he acts in a bunch of movies, man. He's obviously... He's in The Expendables and... But he's always working.

Rico Verhoeven 41:19 Yeah. But a lot of... In the end, when you look at the history, a lot of athletes did it.

Joe Rogan 41:24 Yeah. Sure.

Rico Verhoeven 41:25 But not a lot were like really good.

Joe Rogan 41:27 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 41:27 But in the end, we got like Arnold Schwarzenegger-

Joe Rogan 41:30 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 41:31 ... Jean-Claude Van Damme and so on.

Joe Rogan 41:32 Sure. Sure.

Rico Verhoeven 41:34 So it's possible, and I, and I like the challenge.

Joe Rogan 41:37 Is there, uh, ever a worry of being like one foot in, one foot out with your fighting career? Like if acting starts to take off, but you're still fighting, is there a worry about not being 100% all in?

Rico Verhoeven 41:50 No.

Joe Rogan 41:50 No?

Rico Verhoeven 41:50 No, because then... The thing we said, and I also discussed this with my trainer 'cause he's really cautious with that. He's like, "Hey, when we focus on making a movie, that's what we're gonna f- we're gonna focus on. And if we're gonna have a fight, we're gonna fully focus on that." So no side things or like-

Joe Rogan 42:08 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 42:08 ... "Oh let's do this for a second and then we go back." No.

Joe Rogan 42:11 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 42:12 Just gonna focus on that. And-

Joe Rogan 42:13 'Cause that's what does fighters in.

Rico Verhoeven 42:15 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 42:16 I mean, you've seen it like that. That happened with Ronda Rousey. It's happened-

Rico Verhoeven 42:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:20 ... with other fighters where they just get too spread thin.

Rico Verhoeven 42:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:23 They get spread too thin and they have too many different projects going simultaneously.

Rico Verhoeven 42:26 Exactly. And still they, they... People still say that about me now at this moment. Like, "Rico's not focused. He does everything-" I say, "Hey, but I train every day. I'm focused in what I'm doing." I'm focused in kickboxing, but I just like the acting part, and I just wanna gain my knowledge and-... uh, get better at it, so you gotta train it. Just the same as kickboxing.

Joe Rogan 42:50 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 42:50 You just gotta stay focused.

Joe Rogan 42:51 Do you, do you ever do any jujitsu?

Rico Verhoeven 42:53 Uh, I did some.

Joe Rogan 42:54 Yeah?

Rico Verhoeven 42:54 I did some, yeah. I like it. I like it. It's a lot of fun, but now the last two years have been so busy, uh, with, with kickboxing and everything that happens on the side, it's just, no time.

Joe Rogan 43:06 So, you don't have any real designs of eventually transferring to MMA?

Rico Verhoeven 43:11 (inhales) You know, like I said, for me, um, when I look at it, because people ask me, ask me this a lot, like, "Rico, would you... Why don't you go to MMA?" I say, "Yeah, yeah, it could be. Could be possible." But, like, from... If I look at it, honestly, it's not my basic, uh, ambition to go there-

Joe Rogan 43:35 Mm.

Rico Verhoeven 43:35 ... because my ambition, my next ambition... 'Cause when I look at it, it's like, if you jump into something different, you should, should have the, the will and want to be the best.

Joe Rogan 43:46 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 43:47 And I don't necessarily have the will to be the best at MMA, but if you get a crazy offer...

Joe Rogan 43:57 That's what I was gonna say, if someone comes along with the real shekels.

Rico Verhoeven 44:00 You can, you can think about some stuff, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:03 Starts, starts laying some paper out. Come on, Rico.

Rico Verhoeven 44:04 You gotta... You got, look-

Joe Rogan 44:05 (claps hands)

Rico Verhoeven 44:05 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 44:06 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 44:06 Keep it going just a little bit more.

Joe Rogan 44:08 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 44:08 Okay, I'm... Wow, let's go. I got this, I'm motivated. No, so, no, that, that, that ex- that's exactly what, uh, yeah, what you said is-

Joe Rogan 44:16 But if you did decide to do that, how much time do you think you would legitimately need for, like, a real high-level opponent, uh, uh, to work on-

Rico Verhoeven 44:24 A year.

Joe Rogan 44:25 ... takedown... A year.

Rico Verhoeven 44:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:26 Takedown, defense-

Rico Verhoeven 44:27 Because I, I know what to do.

Joe Rogan 44:29 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 44:29 I've, I've trained this for, like, two, three years, so I know, uh... But my body just needs to work on it, have a, have a fight in between, uh, maybe another fight, and then I'm gonna be able to do a, a high-level fight.

Joe Rogan 44:43 Now, do you do any other kinda cardio? Do you run or-

Rico Verhoeven 44:45 Of course.

Joe Rogan 44:45 Yeah? Do you?

Rico Verhoeven 44:47 I hate it.

Joe Rogan 44:48 You hate it? But you have to do it.

Rico Verhoeven 44:49 You have to do it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:50 (clicks tongue) Well, it's, it's also, for a big guy, it's more of a pain in the ass-

Rico Verhoeven 44:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:54 ... to do. Like, what do you... What do you weigh, about 250? Somewhere around there?

Rico Verhoeven 44:56 Uh, 260.

Joe Rogan 44:57 260?

Rico Verhoeven 44:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:58 So that's... When you're running, that's a lot of weight.

Rico Verhoeven 45:00 That's a lot of weight on your joints-

Joe Rogan 45:02 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 45:02 ... constantly, the pressure. And so, but in the end, how much I hate it does the... It, it works for me because it's also, for me, a mental training, because I hate it so much.

Joe Rogan 45:16 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 45:17 And I jump on the treadmill or I go outside and I just run. "Come on, come on."

Joe Rogan 45:23 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 45:23 You gotta keep going. You gotta keep going, because when you get... You have that feeling, like, 90% of the people would stop.

Joe Rogan 45:32 Hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 45:32 See? But you're not that person. You gotta keep going and that's what, that's what motivates me, just to do things different than everybody else does.

Joe Rogan 45:42 Being comfortable being uncomfortable.

Rico Verhoeven 45:43 Yes, exactly.

Joe Rogan 45:44 Yeah, yeah. The grind.

Rico Verhoeven 45:45 The grind is... I think that's the moment when it, when it starts.

Joe Rogan 45:49 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 45:49 When you get that feeling, shit is gonna hurt, your body starts hurting, and that's when, like, a lot of people give up, and that's where we, as champions, we continue.

Joe Rogan 46:00 It's interesting too, because a lot of fighters, they'll do all sorts of high-intensity training and interval training and all these different plyometrics and cardio and, and different things. But many of them will tell you that one of the more important things is just long-range running.

Rico Verhoeven 46:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:17 Because when you do this long-distance running, when you run five, six, seven miles, when you do that, you develop this cardio base-

Rico Verhoeven 46:24 Yeah, just doing-

Joe Rogan 46:24 ... where you, you can just keep working and you recover faster.

Rico Verhoeven 46:28 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 46:28 And it's just... I mean, that's one of the things that... If you go back and look at old-time fighters, you know, back to Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, all those guys-

Rico Verhoeven 46:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:36 ... everybody ran.

Rico Verhoeven 46:36 Everybody did.

Joe Rogan 46:37 Rocky Marciano. Everybody ran.

Rico Verhoeven 46:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:39 It wasn't an option.

Rico Verhoeven 46:40 No.

Joe Rogan 46:40 It wasn't like, "You don't have to run. We can do a bunch of other things."

Rico Verhoeven 46:43 No.

Joe Rogan 46:43 Like, no, no, no, fighters run.

Rico Verhoeven 46:45 Yeah, that's what we do.

Joe Rogan 46:46 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 46:46 But it's just... I've... I always feel like running is not the, is not the base of your... It's not most important, but it's, like, really important factor of the-

Joe Rogan 46:58 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 46:58 ... the total package.

Joe Rogan 46:59 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 47:00 So it's just your... Yeah, the, the oxygen you have, like, for keeping the same pace for a longer, a longer time than... Of course, the explosiveness that we use during a fight is important, but also just, yeah, the, the, your basic lung capacity should be, should be big as well.

Joe Rogan 47:20 What about heavy bag work?

Rico Verhoeven 47:23 Yeah, we do it, but-

Joe Rogan 47:24 Not that much?

Rico Verhoeven 47:25 Mm, yeah, I think, like, once a week.

Joe Rogan 47:27 So more pad work, more technical things?

Rico Verhoeven 47:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:30 Not like... 'Cause I see some gu... It's really interesting how different camps, different fighters, different trainers-

Rico Verhoeven 47:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:36 ... prefer different preparation methods.

Rico Verhoeven 47:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:38 And some swear by intervals on the heavy w- heavy bag.

Rico Verhoeven 47:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:42 Some swear by doing rounds on the heavy bag, you know, and some, some don't think it's that critical.

Rico Verhoeven 47:47 Yeah, I think for everybody it's different, but, like, for me, throughout all those years, I've been trying different stuff, and I think now I created the right combination of different training, just polishing everything.

Joe Rogan 48:01 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 48:02 And I think I found the right way to get fit, because I don't need to get... I need to get better. I always, I'm always looking to get better, but you get better by putting in the work. But I'm always looking at, how can I change my training up? What would be an add-on what I... in what I already have?

Joe Rogan 48:23 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 48:24 So now, I think I created the right combination, but... And still I'm looking to add stuff on, but I think I created the right way to get fit for a fight, 'cause I've shown that-

Joe Rogan 48:37 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 48:37 ... throughout all those years. I've shown that I'm fitter than all the rest and that's, that's a part, but, uh, still-I think the biggest difference is that everybody is strong and everybody's fit and everybody can fight. But the biggest difference is mentally, what happens to you mentally when you get to the fourth and fifth round. I think that's the most important thing. How strong are you mentally to continue fighting? A lot of people when you feel, like I always... For the people that do not understand what this, what this fighting game is, what happens to you when you're in the ring or in an octagon, so you can... I always compare it with driving a car. You're driving a car and the last, what is it? 40, 50 miles, the, the, the gas l- light comes on. "Hey, you gotta get gas." That's the same thing that happens to your body. When you get tired, pft, a si- uh, whatever happens in your mind, in your head, hey, you're tired. When you're tired, you need to rest. And we as athletes, we do not listen to that light that goes off in your car. And even in my car, I don't listen.

Joe Rogan 50:02 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 50:02 I always go... (laughs) I had a few times that was on the side of the road w- without gas, so I'm sorry, but...

Joe Rogan 50:09 (laughs) Is, is that psychological? Do you do that because you think of your car like a body?

Rico Verhoeven 50:13 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:15 (laughs) Like you try to, "Fuck you, car. Don't be a pussy." (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 50:19 Thanks, Joe. Thank you. Appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 50:21 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 50:21 But that's... Yeah, I think that that is what it is. You know, at the-

Joe Rogan 50:25 Wow. It's like the same game you're playing.

Rico Verhoeven 50:26 It's the s-... Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:26 You're playing that game with your car. (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 50:30 It's, it's so stupid, but for me it works, because I, I always push my car to the limit.

Joe Rogan 50:36 That's funny.

Rico Verhoeven 50:36 And that, that's what I, that's what I do to myself as well, you know? And that's what I luckily have a great team of people around me for, because even when everything is hurting and tired and I almost get overtrained, my people have to pull me back and say, "Rico, there's no point in training now because you're gonna get overtrained and you're gonna fuck yourself up."

Joe Rogan 50:59 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 51:00 S-

Joe Rogan 51:00 That's that fine balance, right? It's-

Rico Verhoeven 51:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:01 ... hard to figure out.

Rico Verhoeven 51:03 I don't have the balance.

Joe Rogan 51:04 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 51:04 I don't have it. I try to have it, and every time in an preparation I think I got it. "Now I got it." I don't got it. And I need the people-

Joe Rogan 51:13 Oh, so you need other people around you-

Rico Verhoeven 51:14 I need people that-

Joe Rogan 51:15 ... that are objective, that can tell you-

Rico Verhoeven 51:16 Like, "Hey, Rico, you gotta-"

Joe Rogan 51:17 ... when to back off.

Rico Verhoeven 51:17 You gotta step back, because for me, in my mind, I don't know what it is, but when I, when I'm not working, I'm standing still or going down.

Joe Rogan 51:29 Hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 51:29 That's what happens in my mind. So-

Joe Rogan 51:31 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 51:32 ... I, I gotta keep working. I gotta keep grinding.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Right, but that's also because of your style, because of the fact that you do push such a tremendous pace that you're, you constantly feel like you have to have your foot on the gas.

Rico Verhoeven 51:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:43 Right? That's interesting. So you've been th- with the same coach for a long time?

Rico Verhoeven 51:47 Yeah, like, since I was, like, 17, so-

Joe Rogan 51:51 Oh, so that's great. So-

Rico Verhoeven 51:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:52 ... they know you.

Rico Verhoeven 51:54 Y-

Joe Rogan 51:54 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 51:54 Yeah. The k-

Joe Rogan 51:55 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 51:55 When, when I come in, they know what's going on.

Joe Rogan 51:57 So critical. So critical, right?

Rico Verhoeven 51:58 And then the whole team, so my power coach.

Joe Rogan 52:00 Yeah. Oh, okay, so the same, same team the entire time.

Rico Verhoeven 52:03 Yeah. Can you imagine, like-

Joe Rogan 52:05 Wow.

Rico Verhoeven 52:05 ... like in the beginning of when we were working, like, when I... We were working, like, for three, four years, and then I come in Monday morning, power training, and y- and my trainer walks up to me, looking at me, "What the hell? What the hell did you do this weekend?" "What do you mean?" "What have you been eating?" "Yeah. Saturday night I went to the McDonald's. What's the problem?" "Look at your blown head, man." said, "Ah, like, yeah, you know, fat holds the, the water in your... The fluids in your-"

Joe Rogan 52:38 He could tell from one McDonald's meal? Really?

Rico Verhoeven 52:42 That's how close we were together.

Joe Rogan 52:43 Oh, wow.

Rico Verhoeven 52:44 So that's how... Like, he sees me, like, multiple times a week. So he saw me, like, like, Friday, and then-

Joe Rogan 52:50 So he just knows you.

Rico Verhoeven 52:51 He just, he just-

Joe Rogan 52:52 He just knows how it works.

Rico Verhoeven 52:52 ... he knows me. He knows everything.

Joe Rogan 52:53 Do you monitor your heart rate or anything like that?

Rico Verhoeven 52:56 Uh, yes. Every morning I, uh, I, uh, check my blood pressure, stuff like that, uh, get my temperature.

Joe Rogan 53:04 Do you do it with a computer? Do you have a program that you run?

Rico Verhoeven 53:07 No, no, no. Just, uh-

Joe Rogan 53:08 No? Just write it down?

Rico Verhoeven 53:08 Yeah, just write it down, and then, uh, send it to the, to the doctor every now and then.

Joe Rogan 53:13 So if your heart rate is a little bit too high in the morning, do you just do like an active recovery day, just relax?

Rico Verhoeven 53:19 Uh, yeah, we, uh, we now check it more through the temperature than through the heart rate.

Joe Rogan 53:25 Really?

Rico Verhoeven 53:25 Yeah. So-

Joe Rogan 53:26 Temperature?

Rico Verhoeven 53:27 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 53:27 Interesting.

Rico Verhoeven 53:28 So when my temperature i- is up, I gotta watch out.

Joe Rogan 53:33 So you might be fighting off a cold or something like that?

Rico Verhoeven 53:36 Something like that-

Joe Rogan 53:36 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 53:36 ... fighting off a cold or you still, uh, your body's still recovering from-

Joe Rogan 53:41 From the last workout.

Rico Verhoeven 53:42 ... from, from last trainings.

Joe Rogan 53:43 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 53:43 So, and from that we can... So we... I've been doing it now for a few years, and that's exactly what... When I feel like, "Hey," when my temperature goes up and it goes there, hmm, this doesn't feel good. And then every time when we... In the end, we always look back at it and analyze stuff, and then my trainer said, "Hey, exactly there."

Joe Rogan 54:04 Hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 54:04 'Cause this training was, was shit.

Joe Rogan 54:07 So you take... Do you use this... Like, uh, do you make a log during your training, you compare it to, like, your last camp, and you look at-

Rico Verhoeven 54:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:16 ... the numbers and-

Rico Verhoeven 54:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:16 ... make sure that everything lines up.

Rico Verhoeven 54:18 Yeah. Yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 54:18 Yeah, so you kind of have to be, right?

Rico Verhoeven 54:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:19 At this point in time, if you wanna really get everything dialed in, you kinda have to be scientific about everything, right?

Rico Verhoeven 54:24 Yeah. Yeah, because it... There's so much more than just, uh, fighting and good training. It's, like, like, good nutrition and this-

Joe Rogan 54:32 Yes.

Rico Verhoeven 54:32 ... and that, and it's just, everything has to be balanced out. So-

Joe Rogan 54:35 I was gonna ask you about that. Do you have a dietician or a c- someone who cooks for you?

Rico Verhoeven 54:39 Uh, yeah. So in, in, uh, in, uh, in camp. So in, uh, I th- I think, like, two years ago, I started with that.

Joe Rogan 54:47 Do you eat horse meat?

Rico Verhoeven 54:49 N- yeah, not necessarily.

Joe Rogan 54:50 Is that a big thing over there? Like Alistair's a big-

Rico Verhoeven 54:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:53 ... horse meat guy.Well-

Rico Verhoeven 54:55 I think that was a good excuse for-

Joe Rogan 54:58 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 54:58 ... the, the things that he did next to, next to fighting.

Joe Rogan 55:01 That's what everybody said too. Everybody was like, "Yeah, horse meat." (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 55:04 Yeah, "Horse meat," yeah. "Hey, it works." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:06 "Yeah, look at the size of him-"

Rico Verhoeven 55:08 (laughs) I don't know what-

Joe Rogan 55:08 "... Gotta get him some horse meat."

Rico Verhoeven 55:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:10 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 55:11 So, no. So, that's, um... No, I, I have no clue. No clue. Um, it's not, like, in my diet or something. Just-

Joe Rogan 55:18 What do you eat?

Rico Verhoeven 55:20 A lot. A-

Joe Rogan 55:21 You eat a lot?

Rico Verhoeven 55:21 A lot, yeah, so-

Joe Rogan 55:22 Multiple meals a day?

Rico Verhoeven 55:23 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 55:24 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 55:25 So, uh, but that's, that's the fun of it. People are like, "That ... How much do you eat? It's, it's crazy." I say, "Yeah, but I burn a lot as well, so-"

Joe Rogan 55:33 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 55:34 ... I have to. And for me the, the, the fun thing with that is the, the, the fun and the strength in when I tell people, I said, "When I get closer to the fight, I'm eating myself slim. So, the more I'm eating, the slimmer I'm getting because I'm training very hard and your body's just in a burning process, like whoosh."

Joe Rogan 55:55 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 55:55 And when the food is gone, it's gonna start burning fat. So I get slimmer the closer I get to the fight.

Joe Rogan 56:01 Mm.

Rico Verhoeven 56:01 That's it. But when you see what I eat, it's like, "How do you do that?" But it's just all-

Joe Rogan 56:05 'Cause you're just training so much.

Rico Verhoeven 56:07 ... food. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:07 So what, what kind of foods do they prepare for you? Do they, do they have like those pre-pa- um, pre-prepared packets and you just, uh, heat 'em up or something like that? Like, how does that work?

Rico Verhoeven 56:17 Uh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:18 Meal pr- like a meal prep company does?

Rico Verhoeven 56:19 Yeah. No, uh, it's just like a private cook.

Joe Rogan 56:22 Oh, okay.

Rico Verhoeven 56:22 Yeah, a private chef that, that, that, that runs with me. And just makes sure every day I get-

Joe Rogan 56:27 And they check the macros and make sure that you get the same, the right amount of protein, the right amount of carbohydrates, all that stuff?

Rico Verhoeven 56:33 Yeah, so it's not like, really like, uh, that everything is, uh, put on a scale or something like that.

Joe Rogan 56:38 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 56:38 We don't do that because, yeah, there's certain things I just want a little bit more.

Joe Rogan 56:43 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 56:43 Or I still have ... I'm still a little bit hungry, so it's ... So that-

Joe Rogan 56:47 It's not like you need to lose weight or anything like that, right?

Rico Verhoeven 56:49 No. So, but still I have in my mind always a, a certain type of fight weight that I like to fight on.

Joe Rogan 56:54 What is that weight?

Rico Verhoeven 56:55 Like 118 and a half.

Joe Rogan 56:59 118 and a half kilos. What is that?

Rico Verhoeven 57:01 I think it's around 24 ...

Joe Rogan 57:05 48?

Rico Verhoeven 57:05 No, 285 I think.

Joe Rogan 57:06 50?

Rico Verhoeven 57:06 Uh, 258, I think.

Joe Rogan 57:10 Well, it's 2.2 pounds, 2.2 kilos. Or 2.2 pounds per kilo. 118 Is 260 pounds. 260.

Rico Verhoeven 57:16 Oh, 260.

Joe Rogan 57:16 So it's right, right around there, huh? Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 57:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:18 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 57:19 So, okay, then I'm lying then. I'm now a little bit heavier. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:24 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 57:24 Like, guys, come on. I'm in LA. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:26 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 57:26 You know, I, I-

Joe Rogan 57:27 I get it.

Rico Verhoeven 57:28 I went to In-N-Out a few times, so ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:30 How could you not?

Rico Verhoeven 57:31 Yeah. So it's gotta be around 2... 265 I think.

Joe Rogan 57:34 Do you try to stay pretty healthy in t- terms of your diet, though, even when you're not in camp?

Rico Verhoeven 57:39 Yeah. Yeah. So for me people say, like, "Rigo, how do you do it?" I say, for me, fighting is a lifestyle. It's not, um, it's not like when I go i- uh, when I wake up, "Oh, uh, this morning, uh ... Uh, I go to the gym, think about the fight. Focus, focus, focus. Go out the gym and my focus is all ... " I say, "I, I wake up with it. I go to bed with it, and when I'm in bed I'm dreaming about it."

Joe Rogan 58:03 Hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 58:03 I say, "I'm ... This is 24/7. Every day I'm thinking about this. Every meal. Every thing you do is just thinking about what's coming."

Joe Rogan 58:13 That's why you're the champ.

Rico Verhoeven 58:14 Yeah. I think so.

Joe Rogan 58:16 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 58:16 I think so, but, but for me it's, like, such a crazy thing that goes on in my mind because I train twice a day, and then at night when I'm at home I think, like, "You know what?" I'm in front of the television with my wife on the couch and I'm like, "I wanna do some stretching. I'm just gonna sit on the ground and just stretch. Or do some more ab work." It's just...

Joe Rogan 58:36 Man.

Rico Verhoeven 58:36 I don't know. I, I, I sometimes, I feel like I'm obsessed or-

Joe Rogan 58:40 Well, you have to be obsessed. I mean, you're in the most, one of the most dangerous combat sports in the world, and you're the world champion.

Rico Verhoeven 58:47 S- so it's constantly that pressure.

Joe Rogan 58:49 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 58:49 And I'm just thinking, "Hey, my opponent probably now is resting or whatever he's doing. I don't care. But I need to do something extra."

Joe Rogan 58:56 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 58:56 So constantly that's, that, that's running through my mind. Everything that I'm doing, he's not doing.

Joe Rogan 59:01 Now, do you take vitamins and supplements?

Rico Verhoeven 59:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:03 So what do ... What kind of stuff do you take?

Rico Verhoeven 59:05 Um ... Uh, it dep- it's really like, uh, like all natural stuff. And I go to the, to the doctor, so, uh, he takes my blood.

Joe Rogan 59:14 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 59:15 And then from there on he always looks at how do, how does it look.

Joe Rogan 59:19 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 59:19 Is it looking good? Maybe I need some more iron-

Joe Rogan 59:21 Nutrient levels, right?

Rico Verhoeven 59:22 ... or whatever, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:22 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 59:23 So, uh, so he, uh, he fills it up whenever, uh, whenever it's needed and during the period I'm training I just take the normal, the normal stuff. Magnesium, iron, whatever.

Joe Rogan 59:35 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 59:36 Just, uh, vitamin C, stuff like that, just to keep everything on the right level, and then once a month I go to him or the closer we get to the fight maybe go twice a, twice a, a month and then he just check it like, "Oh yeah, it's good." Or now, "Oh. You got a lot of white blood cells so you, you're getting close to being, uh, your muscles are tired, you know?" Maybe you're-

Joe Rogan 59:55 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 59:55 ... getting over-trained so look at that. Maybe, uh, get some more protein, you know, and hmm, stuff like that. So that's how we try to do that.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 What else do you do for recovery? Do you do any cryotherapy-

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 ... or things on those lines?

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:07 Yeah. So I've been starting that, like, one and a half year ago or something. And it works. I like it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 Do you do, um, do you do ice baths or, like, how do you ... H- what do you do?

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:18 No. I just do literally the cryo-

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 Oh, the, those-

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:21 ... the, the, the machines.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Oh, so like nitro- uh, frozen ...

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:25 Yeah. So I did like, uh, two different, uh, in Holland now it's re- really starting to, to, to, to be a hype. So now they got-

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:32 ... like, uh, different, uh, places. Uh, but-

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Do you go on the one that is from the neck down or the one that gets your whole body in there?

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:39 Yeah, so f- first I started with the, with the one with the, with the-

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 The neck down?

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:44 ... the neck down.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 The whole body's the better one, though, right?

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:45 Yeah. So-

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 There's a place out here, uh, Cryotherapy. It's the fucking shit.

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 I love it.

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:49 Yeah, it's nice.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 It's 240 degrees below zero-

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 ... and you just get in there for three minutes. You motherfucker.

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Motherfucker.

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:55 But it's also free. I'll get in there.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:57 Like mental training.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 Yes.

Rico Verhoeven 1:00:58 Like, come on. You gotta go.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 Yeah. Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:00 So, uh, so that's what I started with and then ... But the on- uh, I think the only one we have now is in Amsterdam.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 Hm.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:08 Like the full body. And like Amsterdam is like w-... two hours.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 Oh, yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:11 Or whatever, so-

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 Well, from the neck down is good enough.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:14 ... I know that... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 I mean-

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:14 So now I'm gonna... I- I get one. I get one in my own gym.

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:18 So, um, just so I can jump in, in and out easy.

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 Right. Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:22 So, uh, just start with that, and then from there, I'm gonna see, uh, gonna see how it works, but-

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 What about sauna?

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:28 Uh, yeah. I use it, but not- not too often.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 So good, man.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:33 I know, but-

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 So good for recovery.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:35 F- You know-

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 You don't like it?

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:37 I- I like it for the full first two minutes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:42 And then afterwards, I'm like... And it's like, again, it's like training.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 Mental training. Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:46 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:01:47 But I'm like... After... And my wife's like enjoying it, and she says... I sound like, "Oh, I love it. It's so nice." I'm like, "Ooh, come on. Come on, you got this. Come on."

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 (laughs) 'Cause you're playing a game with yourself.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 You can't just enjoy it.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:01 "Come on. Your- your- your- your- your opponent will probably get out now. You're gonna stay in. Come on."

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:06 It's like really emi- I was like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:07 ... sweat just dripping off, like, pff... It's like really a fight.

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 I was fucking myself up 'cause I was trying to- to crank it up to... I had Laird Hamilton on the podcast.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 He's a surfer, big time surfer. And his wife, uh, Gabriela Reece, was telling me that he cranks his up to 220 degrees. So, uh-

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 ... I did that for a little bit. I got up to like-

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 ... 210, 218.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 But it was... I think it was burning my lungs.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 I think I was cooking in there. I really do. Like, I would-

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 ... I would feel like shit. And then I would get out, I'd be so fucking tired. I was like, "I don't think this is good for you."

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:41 So then I- I dropped it down. Now I do normal.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 Now I do it like 180, which is normal. 180 degrees.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 Fahrenheit. I don't know what that is in Celsius. Yeah, I think like, like 80, 85.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:52 Yeah. It's... But that's normal. That's like a normal hot sauna.

Joe Rogan 1:02:55 Yep.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:56 Good enough. 20 minutes, I'm in and out.

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 It's pretty hot.

Rico Verhoeven 1:02:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 It's pretty hot for me. (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:00 Yeah, it's hot, man. It's hot.

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:01 But it's- but it's very good for you, though. It's heat shock proteins. And they did these studies that showed a 40% decrease in mortality for all causes, heart attack, stroke, cancer, 40% decrease where people who use the sauna for four times a week or more. That was in, um, what was that, Sweden? Jamie, do you remember?

Narrator 1:03:19 That's right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 It was Dr. Rhonda Patrick.

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:20 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 Uh, yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:21 Nice. That's interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 She was talking about it and-

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:23 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 ... explaining it. Yeah, it's phenomenal for you, because of heat shock proteins. It makes your body, uh, reduces inflammation throughout your whole body.

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:30 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 As does cryotherapy.

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 Anything where you're dealing with extreme cold or extreme heat, your body develops either heat shock proteins or cold shock proteins.

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:39 Yeah. So, I also aft-... So there was this- this, um, this place where- where I went, where I went for the cryo, and he said, "Oh, we also got something else." I don't know what it's called. What is it called? I can't remember. So you just get like, like put in a cocoon or something.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:56 And just go to sleep.

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Oh, yeah? Oh, is it-

Rico Verhoeven 1:03:59 But- but you're i- in water, so you're like floating. It, uh... So the water is like-

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 You're floating.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:05 Yeah, the water's... Oh, floating. It's called floating. That's what it's called.

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:07 I was like, "What? What the hell? I'm floating?" That's what the fuck it's called.

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 You mean like a cry- like a float tank? Like a... Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:13 But it's... It looks like a-

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 I have one here.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:15 It looks like a cocoon.

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 Oh, okay. I know what you're talking about.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:17 And then-

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 Yeah, yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:18 ... they- they just close it and they put you in there for-

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 Sensory deprivation tank, yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:22 ... for an hour and you just-

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 I have one right here.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:23 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 Yeah. It's awesome.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:26 I- I'm gonna sleep for an hour. This is good.

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 All right, go ahead. Take a nap. (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:28 It's a big one too.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:29 All right, guys. I'm out.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 You'd fit in it. It's huge. The one I have here is huge.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:32 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:33 Why? Yours are small.

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 Yeah, but that's the best one they have.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:37 That's-

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 I just wanted one that anyone can come in. They-

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:39 That-

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 So it's like seven feet long and nine feet high.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:42 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:43 It- it's amazing. And they said, they say when you finally get to the point where you know how to work with it-

Joe Rogan 1:04:49 Relax.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:49 ... mentally and relax-

Joe Rogan 1:04:51 Yes. Yes.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:51 ... it's the same as one hour. It's like four or five hours of sleep or something.

Joe Rogan 1:04:54 Of sleep, yes.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:55 Man.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 Yeah. Yeah, you relax. And it's also your body absorbs magnesium.

Rico Verhoeven 1:04:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 Because it's Epsom salts. So all the- the salt that's in the water, there's 1000 pounds of salt in the water.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 All that Epsom salts, the magnesium gets through your skin into your bloodstream, so it's really good.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 Like, it's almost like taking mag- well, it's as good or better take- than taking a magnesium supplement.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Really good for your muscles too. Like everything gets loose and relaxed.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 And it feels like everything stretches out and...

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:21 What about, um-

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:22 So-

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Also try that. Th- Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:23 I love that. I'll show- I'll show you too when we get outta here.

Joe Rogan 1:05:25 Yeah. What about, uh, massage? Do you get massages?

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:27 Yeah. Like daily.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 Daily?

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 Yeah. I wouldn't imagine.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:29 So my- my- my physiotherapist, uh, comes in (sighs) to the house and just keeps, keeps the blood flowing and-

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 Nice.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:38 ... just makes sure... Yeah, everything. The... Not just for recovery, but also, um, also just for the injuries.

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:45 Just keep checking like, "Oh, what's this? What's that?"

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:47 And, "What's hurting?" And so luckily, uh, I've been doing pretty good. Not too many injuries. But-

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 Yeah, having a good one, a good massage therapist-

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 ... to deal with injuries is just gigantic, right?

Rico Verhoeven 1:05:58 Yeah. Yeah, it's so important. So important.

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 So they can- they can pre- prevent things, fix things, things that are starting to go south, they can stop it in its tracks and make- and loosen everything up.

Rico Verhoeven 1:06:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 And... 'Cause sometimes when you get an injury, right, everything around it tightens up. And then when you're training, it gets even more fucked up. But if someone can loosen that up, then it has time to relax and heal.

Rico Verhoeven 1:06:18 Yeah. Yeah, or else you're just getting more tense and then-

Joe Rogan 1:06:21 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:06:21 ... you're gonna rip something.

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 Exactly.

Rico Verhoeven 1:06:22 Or whatever. So yeah, that's so important and I think that's one of the key factors in being a pro athlete, is the people you have around you.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 Yes.

Rico Verhoeven 1:06:33 And the- the team that helps you balance everything out. And they say, "Hey, like, Rico, yeah, you're the fighter." I say, "Yeah. I'm Rico the fighter, I'm Rico the champion because of all those people-"

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:06:45 "... that are-"

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 The team.

Rico Verhoeven 1:06:46 Yeah, that are around me. So still, in the end, you're doing an individual sport, but you have a great team around you to be that person that you are in the ring.

Joe Rogan 1:06:55 And at the highest level.

Rico Verhoeven 1:06:56 At the highest level.

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 I think you have to have that. You have to have all the ducks in line, right?

Rico Verhoeven 1:07:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:00 You have to have everything in line if you wanna be at the very top of the heap.

Rico Verhoeven 1:07:03 Yeah, you have to.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 What about, uh, psychology? Do you have a- a mental trainer or anybody-

Rico Verhoeven 1:07:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:09 ... who's like a sports psychologist?

Rico Verhoeven 1:07:11 Well, that's the- the fun thing. I started off with, um-So, the guy I was telling you about, Alv- Alvior Lima, he's a... also kickboxing world champion in different, different weight divisions. And I was training with him, and he took me with his training, took me to his training, and I was working with him in his prime. And without him knowing, he was teaching me so much about mental training because h- I was training with him, and he was never giving up. And the moment when I just showed something like (exhales) , he gave even extra... even more gas. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 So, when you started slowing down, he-

Rico Verhoeven 1:07:51 Yeah, he, he... And he would even push me to pace even more, and that's what I was seeing in his fights, and I was just t- studying him. And from that, I learned so much. And I respect him, and I still so mu- so thankful for that. So, and he's still my, my mental coach with that, so he's in my corner. And every time when he says something, I just think about, "I don't wanna disappoint this man."

Joe Rogan 1:08:15 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 1:08:15 Because he knows what... how important this is. And I think it was from the start of last year or something, I was really, like, a little bit skeptical about talking to people like, like a psychologist or something.

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 1:08:31 Because I was like, "I don't know. Well, (exhales) t- talk about s- personal stuff, you know, that's-"

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:08:36 "... pretty deep with somebody you don't know is..." I don't know. Does... Maybe... In my mind, it just doesn't add up, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08:44 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:08:44 It doesn't feel good. Uh, but still, uh, I got in this situation that I had to, or... Yeah. I, I just, I just had to, and I went there, and it actually felt pretty good. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:56 (laughs)

Rico Verhoeven 1:08:56 So, from that moment on, I just kept on doing it. Just talk about, just talk about stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:09:02 Mm-hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 1:09:02 You know? It's just... You, like, n- like no other, know what... how many things happen, or what... everything that happens in your life, and you just gotta process the... all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:09:14 Right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:09:14 But sometimes, you just... So many things happen in your life that you just can't process.

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 And you put them away, and-

Rico Verhoeven 1:09:20 Yeah, you just... (exhales)

Joe Rogan 1:09:20 ... you don't think about it. And they're fucking with you in the back of your head.

Rico Verhoeven 1:09:23 Exactly. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:09:24 And then when you just have the time, and... or take the time to talk about that stuff, you just... (exhales) It just feels a lot better. It feels like a, like a bag of, of bricks on your, on your back. Just (exhales) you just fall, fall off, and it's just like-

Joe Rogan 1:09:38 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:09:38 ... it feels good. So...

Joe Rogan 1:09:40 I think of it the same way you were talking about physical therapy, that like, if you have little injuries, nagging injuries-

Rico Verhoeven 1:09:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:46 ... you get it massaged out, and everything loosens up. I think of it the same way. If you're not taking a good account of what's going on in your mind, you can develop, like, little mental injuries.

Rico Verhoeven 1:09:57 Yeah. Exactly. But for me, and, uh, maybe a lot of people have... maybe not nowadays, but like, from back in the days, people said, ah, like, when you're talking to a psychology, "You crazy. You don't know what-"

Joe Rogan 1:10:09 Right, right, right, right.

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:10 That, that... It's, uh, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:10:10 Or, "You're weak."

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:11 Yeah. That's what... That's how people in Holland, like-

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 Yeah.

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:14 ... approached it. But-

Joe Rogan 1:10:15 Well, for here, uh, for a long time here, for fighters, it was the same thing. Like, most fighters didn't need a psychologist. That's not for winners. Winners know how to win. You just don't be a pussy, go out there and fucking fight.

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:27 But that's nonsense. Like, you... Uh, there's no pussies in professional fighting.

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:32 No.

Joe Rogan 1:10:32 You know? But there is edge. You can get an edge.

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:36 You can get an advantage.

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:38 Whether you get that advantage from getting massage, or cryotherapy, or from a sport psychologist, there's advantages to be had.

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:44 Yeah. So... But I think that's what my... uh, what I got from my dad is just being tough, being tough and being hard on yourself-

Joe Rogan 1:10:53 Hmm.

Rico Verhoeven 1:10:53 ... in whatever situation you're in. Just be tough on yourself, and just... Because that's what he was. He was tough on his self. And so that's what I got from him. And... But now, I just think like, okay, just do... tweak everything up, and just get mentally in balance. And especially when he passed away, like, almost two years ago, it's just... Yeah, it was tough. It was tough. Especially when the, the relationship we had wasn't like... it was like on and off, on and off. And when it was on, it was like a lot of discussion, and you just... It just hurts. And then things happen in your life, and you just try to process everything,