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150 min read · 30,094 words- 0:00 – 2:03
Jimmy Smith leaves Bellator: what happened and what’s next
- JRJoe Rogan
... waiting on ja-? We good?
- JSJimmy Smith
Just waiting on you guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry. (laughs)
- JSJimmy Smith
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
We're chatting about kombucha. I just wanna say before this podcast starts, you fucked up, Bellator.
- JSJimmy Smith
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You fucked up. You fucked up. I've been telling everybody that Jimmy Smith's the best out there forever, and you let him go. That's, that's, that's a, that's a huge error on their part.
- JSJimmy Smith
It's just... We can't talk about anything.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is what it is.
- JSJimmy Smith
That might be, like, uh, some future news. We can't talk about that. We can't, uh- But the past is, the past is up for-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... for discussion, that's for sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
The past is up for discussion. I would be-
- JSJimmy Smith
The present's good.
- JRJoe Rogan
... thrilled if somehow or another they were able to work it out where Jimmy Smith was at the UFC.
- JSJimmy Smith
We shall see.
- JRJoe Rogan
That would be what I would like to see.
- JSJimmy Smith
We shall see how that goes.
- JRJoe Rogan
I would like to see that.
- JSJimmy Smith
We will.
- JRJoe Rogan
That, they've... That's a big fuck up.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah, man. It was, um... What do you want me to say? Like, uh, just a little background because a lot of people have been asking me. I haven't made any real public statements other than that-
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm not a Bellator hater. I just want to say.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah, no. Bellator is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Across the board, never been a Bellator hater.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Respect. You know?
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I enjoy watching it. I like the fighters.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- 2:03 – 7:34
Why MMA commentary is hard: skill, enthusiasm, and storytelling
- JRJoe Rogan
It's fascinating to me that in, in the world of, uh, mixed martial arts, professional mixed martial arts, there haven't been that many people that have done you... what you and I both do.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yes, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a small handful of people.
- JSJimmy Smith
You know what ya, the weird thing is about our job? Really. And, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Um, everybody thinks they got a guy. It's, it's one of those jobs that everybody thinks they can do, that they, they really go, "We'll just throw a fighter in, and then he'll be able to do it." I've seen I don't know how many of them that, that want to do... You know, even locker room interviews. "I want to get the next fighter to do that." And it's a, it's a job. It's a skill.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a job.
- JSJimmy Smith
It's really... I mean, it's one of those things where everybody thinks they can throw somebody in and do it. And I've seen s- I don't know how many try. And it's, it's tough. You really have to work at it or have a knack for it. It's, it's not the kind of thing that, you know... It's almost like coaching. I mean, how many times have you heard... I've heard of great, great jujitsu guys, like, "He's just not a great coach." He's naturally really good.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
He's not that good at teaching it because to him it just works, and then you try and it doesn't work. You know, it's one of those things where a great fighter isn't a great coach.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Sometimes, yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
A great, yeah, a great fighter isn't necessarily a great broadcaster. It just doesn't work that way, so...
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, some guys are just naturally good at it, though.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like Cormier is naturally fun.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like when Rousdan Namajunas knocked out, uh, Joanna Jędrczek.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He starts yelling, "Thug Rose!"
- JSJimmy Smith
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"Thug Rose!" Like, he, that's just pure personality.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like you either have that in you or you don't. You can't fake yelling out "Thug Rose"-
- JSJimmy Smith
You can't.
- JRJoe Rogan
... after Rousdan Namajunas KOs her.
- JSJimmy Smith
You, you can't fake enthusiasm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JSJimmy Smith
And that's... I, I think the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Real enthusiasm-
- JSJimmy Smith
Real enthusiasm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... is contagious, too.
- JSJimmy Smith
If you really care about the sport, there are two things that, that... Well, three things, uh, that we have to do is number one is educate people, because a lot of people just... Most Ameri- It's weird because most Americans didn't grow up wrestling. They didn't grow up doing Muay Thai. They didn't grow up doing jujitsu. So a lot of our sport is, at least partially, we're introducing them to it.
- 7:34 – 12:28
Extreme weight cuts, IV rules, and hydration testing ideas
- JRJoe Rogan
... Bellator wasn't under on any IV ins- restrictions.
- JSJimmy Smith
Um, I, I think it's by state. We weren't as a promotion under it, I don't think. I think it's by state.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause I think the-
- JSJimmy Smith
Certain states use them. Some states don't.
- JRJoe Rogan
... hardcore pro- uh, testing got instituted by USADA when-
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... Nowicki came along. And I think that's when they stopped IVs. I think states still allow them.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah. As far as I know, it's still state-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... for us.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so what, what that-
- JSJimmy Smith
Them, sometimes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... for people who don't know what we're talking about, what that means is, and this is up for debate, 'cause Joe Silva claimed, um, that there had been tests done, this is what he was telling me and I believe him, that showed that the correct way of rehydrating orally, um, actually led to better results over a 24-hour period.
- JSJimmy Smith
I've heard that.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that, yeah, that the IV thing was good for short-term recovery from severe dehydration, but to actually go from like a weight-cutting weight, to go back u- ... I don't know. I didn't read any of the studies. But I do know about the inherent dangers of severe weight cuts: kidney failure, you know, there's some, a couple people who died over the last year. Uh, professional or amateur-
- JSJimmy Smith
Wrestlers die of every f- every few years-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... a wrestler dies doing it.
- JRJoe Rogan
A young amateur Muay Thai fighter died. I think-
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah. Female.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in Australia, I think.
- JSJimmy Smith
Right. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
The, the, the issue for, that, that people have trouble understanding. Well, first off, I, I've, to the IV point, I've heard coaches say it's just for their head.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
They feel better once they ... Like, they think they need the IV and it's a, like a pla- I've had coaches tell me-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JSJimmy Smith
... it's pretty much a placebo. You, you can't do it that much more than ... Now, once again, I haven't read the studies-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... but I've had coaches tell me that. That-
- 12:28 – 14:16
Who cuts well (and who doesn’t): Lima’s massive cut and body-type myths
- JSJimmy Smith
Like I said, Douglas Zuma is huge. He makes it every time. For-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you ever talk to him about how he does it?
- JSJimmy Smith
Uh, he's told me little things, 'cause he used to not do it well and he looked like death. In the last few fights, he's looked much better. He's like... uh, he just... he tended to bloom up to like 210, 215.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he's American Top Team, right?
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They, they have some-
- JSJimmy Smith
Not Coconut Creek though, but uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- JSJimmy Smith
... it's Atlanta somewhere?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really?
- JSJimmy Smith
It's somewhere down south where he's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- JSJimmy Smith
He might go there to spar or something, but he's, he's not at the main, main facility most of the time.
- JRJoe Rogan
But there... are they all like, uh, integrated like Gracie Barros or Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing, yeah. ... like, uh, they're all... yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
The same team, so he goes around to get work, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JSJimmy Smith
... it's, it's... and then I have guys, you know, Fernando Gonzalez, never makes weight and he looks like he's got something to lose, like he's not the most-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JSJimmy Smith
... shredded biggest 170 and yet he always has trouble with it. So it's weird. Certain guys, you're like, "Man, there's no way that guy can make it," and he always does. And certain guys look like they should be able to make it pretty easily and just don't. It's, it's strange.
- JRJoe Rogan
So-
- JSJimmy Smith
There's no easy rule is what I'm saying.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. What is the solution?
- JSJimmy Smith
Darrion Colby is huge at 135. Huge.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
And he made it. He was a wrestler his whole life.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JSJimmy Smith
He makes it every time and he's a giant.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I mean, like how much of it is discipline, how much of it is a really good game plan, and a really good nutritionist. Like Cyborg or excuse me, uh, Nurmagomedov made weight easily this time.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, you know, Cyborg obviously had a hard time trying to 140, but at 145 she's been successful, you know, cutting the weight.
- 14:16 – 19:41
Khabib vs Barboza breakdown: inevitability, pressure, and mental breaking points
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the problem with Nurmagomedov obviously was the last fight before this previous spectacular fight with Barboza, he didn't make the weight because he had to go to the hospital.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So that's a different animal. That's like, uh, you pushed it so far that they were... they wanted to make sure you stayed alive, so they had to bring you to a hospital. So they obviously realized there's some changes that need to be made. They made those changes and fucking hell on Friday or on Saturday night rather.
- JSJimmy Smith
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Fucking hell. Dude.
- JSJimmy Smith
Unbelievable. That was... it, it's really weird sometimes w- when you... in any sport, I don't care what it is, when you see somebody... you know, Jordan in his prime, you just, you just can't cover the guy. It's almost like he's the only one on the court.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
Nurmagomedov, it was like he was the only one in the cage. It was crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was like everything was inevitable.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Everything was inevitable.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah, it's unbelievable.
- JRJoe Rogan
The takedown was inevitable. The beatings were inevitable. You know, even if you hit him, congratulations, now you're on your ass. Y- y- getting punched in the face over and over again. You can't get up. You're getting mauled, like immediately.
- JSJimmy Smith
And against an excellent fighter.
- JRJoe Rogan
Excellent, yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
And people forget Barboza, Barboza is amazing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Amazing.
- JSJimmy Smith
And he made him look like he's j-... and, uh, the look on his face when he got up when Barboza was like, "Hey, you were better than me." I...
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
It was almost like a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... like a shrug, wasn't even mad. It was just when you see somebody that much better, it's, it's back to the drawing board in some-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I was super impressed with Barboza being able to make it to the final bell. I mean, that was amazing. Just being able to do that, that shows you what a dominant performance it was-
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... by a guy like Khabib. But you also realize like what, what a world class fighter Barboza is, that he did... keeps throwing wheel kicks in the third round, and even landed one of them. He just didn't have much on him anymore.
- JSJimmy Smith
He didn't have the juice on him left. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But fuck, man. He was still trying to win after a horrendous mauling for eight plus minutes.
- JSJimmy Smith
You know when I really look at fighters, when I really, when I really focus on them, especially the face, in between rounds, I look for that breaking moment of like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... uh, you know. Uh, Vitor Belfort, Randy Couture and he's sitting on the ground just-
- 19:41 – 22:23
Modern MMA evolution: RDA at 170, calf kicks, and fights that should’ve happened
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it seems to me that everything right now is, is next level in comparison to a year and a half, two years ago. Like, Dos Anjos beat, uh, Robbie Lawler recently in just a fucking tour de force, de force performance. Watch that fight, I was like, this is as good as Dos Anjos has ever looked, if not better.
- JSJimmy Smith
Real sharp.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fucking amazing at 170, but more importantly like the, the output, the f- the, the, the amount of shots that he landed, the amount of shots that he fired, the, the endurance that he's showing. Everybody is on this complete different performance level right now.
- JSJimmy Smith
What I loved about that performance is one thing that generally doesn't change weight classes well when you move up is power. Meaning, Robbie Lawler, if you remember at 170 he was knocking everybody out, 185 he was like so-so. The shot that knocked somebody out at 70 when he, when he was at Strikeforce at 185 isn't gonna knock out Jacare, it's not gonna knock out Babaloo, it's not gonna r- knock out these big 185ers. So a lot of power punchers have trouble changing weight classes because the power shot just doesn't go with them. Dos Anjos looked like he knew that and when I got a volume guy at 170, I'm not gonna knock anybody out with one shot at, at 50, uh, like I did at 55. I have to throw more at 70, I have to be more accurate at 70, I have to slice them up with elbows a little more. So I like all the adjustments he made for the new weight class. He didn't try to fight like he did at 55. He's like, "I gotta throw more against these guys. I can't go one punch for one punch with Robbie Lawler."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
That guy's a huge 170. So I liked the way his style modified with, with the weight class change.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
A lot of guys don't do that.
- JRJoe Rogan
I agree and I also think the use of leg kicks is critical. You gotta slow Robbie down.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Robbie's a big heavy guy and he immediately started chopping. That, it is crazy to me also that that low calf kick is becoming such a giant factor in MMA. That kick is just dominant now.
- JSJimmy Smith
Everybody's using it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Remember, remember what Manoff did to him after he knocked him out and couldn't walk?
- JSJimmy Smith
Woo.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like he knocks him out- Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... and was like limping over to his corner going, "I, you know, one more and I c- I'm done."
- JRJoe Rogan
That was one of the greatest-
- JSJimmy Smith
It's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
... comeback from behind knockouts ever.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he's, he's eating all those leg kicks and M- Melvin is just coming after. Boom, boom, boom.
- JSJimmy Smith
If you haven't seen that fight folks, see it, 'cause it's, it's awesome and Melvin's just owning that leg.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
Got a little aggressive as, as Melvin Manoff does and got clipped, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Got clipped with the haymaker of all haymakers.
- JSJimmy Smith
Haymaker. Hail Mary, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JSJimmy Smith
Incredible.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then one on the way down too.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- 22:23 – 53:55
Big-money returns and the Conor question: title politics and staying relevant
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, I wonder if Nick Diaz if he wanted to come back would only want to come back for a title fight. I wonder if he's like that kind of money fight guy where it's like, yeah, obviously he's got some money and obviously-
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... he's not beating down on anybody's door to fight.
- JSJimmy Smith
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's not, you know, he's doing whatever the fuck he wants to do. But if you could get him back for a big money fight, I wonder if it would only be like a title fight?
- JSJimmy Smith
That's increasingly what's happening these days. I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... guys are like, "Ah, I'm not getting paid."
- JRJoe Rogan
Like GSP. Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah. He came back for a huge money fight and that's it, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's funny, Dana White said something crazy like, uh, "Yeah, he's just gonna pack up his money and f- head back to Canada."
- JSJimmy Smith
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Get a big check.
- JSJimmy Smith
Uh, I need three suitcases to hold all of it.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He did.
- JSJimmy Smith
Big money fight stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Came back, won the title and then retired.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's... I mean, look, as far as like legacy if he wanted to end it right there, that's a pretty nice cherry.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a nice one.
- JSJimmy Smith
That's a pretty nice cherry.
- JRJoe Rogan
With a finish?
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's pretty awesome.
- JSJimmy Smith
Come back up, choke the champ to sleep and say, "Nah, I'm good."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JSJimmy Smith
Now do you think, do you think he comes back for any other fighter? Michael Bisping was the perfect guy for him to come back and fight.
- 53:55 – 57:29
Behind the scenes of broadcasting: interviews, production constraints, and bad tweets
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah, you just wait for ... You just ... Whatever ... Like, when I interview him ... And- and by the way for- for people listening. I don't know how it is for you. Interviews are, if not the hardest part of our job, the m- the x-factors in interviews. Because everybody asks me, and this is kind of like a behind the scenes thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JSJimmy Smith
People don't know. Whether or not we do an interview is a production call, 100%. We don't decide.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JSJimmy Smith
I don't decide personally whether or not somebody gets an interview. W- when I was doing Bellator, it ... We have commercials. So they have a commercial inventory, we gotta get to them. If fights end quickly, we get interviews. If they don't, we don't. It doesn't matter who the fighter is or what they're doing. But it's not my call.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JSJimmy Smith
Um, they're geeked up on adrenaline. They're like all over the place. The producers in my ear going-
- JRJoe Rogan
(coughs)
- JSJimmy Smith
... you know, "You have one or two questions," however many I ... how many I have time for. They can go off crazy. Like you just don't know. It's the most x-factor part of our job because it's off the format. You're up there holding the mic and they could...... say whatever that you have no idea what they're saying, what they're doing. You try to keep them in one place.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
People don't realize that. People go, "Oh, you guys are always touching the fighter." If they start moving, all the cameras move, guys, and it ruins the shot. We're trying to keep them in one place.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
When I put my hand on a guy, what I'm trying to do, or gal, whatever, I'm trying to keep them in one place so the two cameras get a shot of them 'cause one's on their face.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they- they kind of sense it too.
- JSJimmy Smith
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It- it works. It really works.
- JSJimmy Smith
But when they have adrenaline, they'll start spinning around.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- JSJimmy Smith
Or they're trying to address the crowd and they start turning around. You're trying to keep them in one spot. I had one guy, one of the weirdest tweets I've ever gotten was... Sometimes you'll catch me on camera, pointing at the ground.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JSJimmy Smith
And what I'm saying is, "Stand right here. Come to me and stand right..." So, that's where the camera shot is. You know? I'm not-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right.
- JSJimmy Smith
And so anywa- every now and then you'll catch me doing that. And what I'm doing is, yeah, stand right here. 'Cause my director used to always get mad at me 'cause I would go to the fighter and it would like ruin the shot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right.
- JSJimmy Smith
So he wants them to come to them so it's center. (laughs) This weirdo tweet me, he goes, "It is so racist the way you point to your shoes when it's a-"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) What?
- JSJimmy Smith
I swear to God, he said, uh, "Like you point to your shoes when it's a Black fighter." And the last card hadn't had any Black fighters.
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, you got trolled.
- JSJimmy Smith
It was cr- I was-
- JRJoe Rogan
You got trolled, bro.
- 57:29 – 1:07:30
Referees, replay oddities, and why MMA controversies never stop
- JRJoe Rogan
Even if you love the referee.
- JSJimmy Smith
Y- even if you love the referee. But a lot of things are like... (laughs) One time... And, uh, I love this. And Big John, if you're listening, I would love to hear an explanation of this, 'cause this is one of the funniest moments I've ever had commentating, was, it was Marlon Sandro versus Frodo Khasbulatov at 145 in Bellator. And I forget who got a- a cup shot, but somebody got a cup shot. Boom, kick- kick to the nuts. And Big John walks up to him and goes... And w- he was miced, so I could hear it. He goes, "That wasn't a bad shot, I'm only giving you two minutes."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, my God.
- JSJimmy Smith
And I went... I'm on air going, "I- I don't think he can do that. It's either five minutes or he didn't get hit and he has to keep fighting. There's no-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
But he went up to him and goes, "That wasn't bad. I'm only giving you two minutes." And I went... So I'm on... Like I have to explain that to an audience and go, "Uh, y- as far as I know, he can't do that. It's either five or it's nothing." When- when a referee does something like that, you- you- you... I'm trying to explain to the audience what he might be thinking. Like, "That didn't look bad to me." But here's what he's thinking.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
And then fighters... And then a lot of people think you're defending the referee. No, I'm trying to think about what could possibly make him do that. You have to ride that line-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JSJimmy Smith
... and go, "Ah, this is what he's thinking. I disagree about that, but that's gotta be what he's thinking."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you can also... I bring in Ratner.
- JSJimmy Smith
"It's so arbitrary."
- JRJoe Rogan
The good thing about the UFC is you bring in Mark Ratner-
- JSJimmy Smith
That's pretty awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
And Mark Ratner goes over the- the actual law and, or the rules rather, and how it's set up. The, one of the things that's interesting, we did a show in Detroit, and I believe it was in Detroit. In Michigan, they- they make use of the, uh, replay. But when they use the replay, the fight is over.
Episode duration: 2:07:26
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Transcript of episode e-8zbeH_kCg
