JRE MMA Show #8 with Jimmy Smith

Joe Rogan 0:00 ... waiting on ja-? We good?

Jimmy Smith 0:01 Just waiting on you guys.

Joe Rogan 0:01 Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry. (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 0:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:04 We're chatting about kombucha. I just wanna say before this podcast starts, you fucked up, Bellator.

Jimmy Smith 0:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:10 You fucked up. You fucked up. I've been telling everybody that Jimmy Smith's the best out there forever, and you let him go. That's, that's, that's a, that's a huge error on their part.

Jimmy Smith 0:20 It's just... We can't talk about anything.

Joe Rogan 0:21 It is what it is.

Jimmy Smith 0:22 That might be, like, uh, some future news. We can't talk about that. We can't, uh- But the past is, the past is up for-

Joe Rogan 0:28 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 0:28 ... for discussion, that's for sure.

Joe Rogan 0:29 The past is up for discussion. I would be-

Jimmy Smith 0:31 The present's good.

Joe Rogan 0:32 ... thrilled if somehow or another they were able to work it out where Jimmy Smith was at the UFC.

Jimmy Smith 0:37 We shall see.

Joe Rogan 0:37 That would be what I would like to see.

Jimmy Smith 0:39 We shall see how that goes.

Joe Rogan 0:40 I would like to see that.

Jimmy Smith 0:40 We will.

Joe Rogan 0:42 That, they've... That's a big fuck up.

Jimmy Smith 0:43 Yeah, man. It was, um... What do you want me to say? Like, uh, just a little background because a lot of people have been asking me. I haven't made any real public statements other than that-

Joe Rogan 0:50 I'm not a Bellator hater. I just want to say.

Jimmy Smith 0:52 Yeah, no. Bellator is-

Joe Rogan 0:52 Across the board, never been a Bellator hater.

Jimmy Smith 0:54 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:54 Respect. You know?

Jimmy Smith 0:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:55 I enjoy watching it. I like the fighters.

Jimmy Smith 0:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:57 And I've always told everybody that you were the best out there.

Jimmy Smith 0:58 Thank you so much.

Joe Rogan 0:59 You, you do an amazing job.

Jimmy Smith 1:00 I really appreciate that. Um, number one, yeah, it's, it's not a, it's not a Bellator thing. I mean, they, they were great to work with. They were great about the, the whole breakup thing. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:07 They fucked up!

Jimmy Smith 1:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08 Just say it! Someone say it!

Jimmy Smith 1:10 Yeah, so what happened was I was... I had a, I had a, a, a deal with a, with an option year, and 2018 was my option year. And when I was in, uh, Verona, New York, doing the Verona show, my boss sat me down, and he said, "We're not gonna renew 2018. We want a diff- we want a different deal." And when they come to you and say, "We want a different deal," what, they're not-

Joe Rogan 1:30 They want to downgrade.

Jimmy Smith 1:30 It's never-

Joe Rogan 1:32 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 1:32 ... it's never... You know, when your girlfriend comes to you and says, "I want to talk," it's never, "I don't give enough blow jobs." That's never-

Joe Rogan 1:37 (blow job sounds)

Jimmy Smith 1:37 That's never what they... They never say that. It's always-

Joe Rogan 1:40 I'm gonna be a better girlfriend.

Jimmy Smith 1:42 Exactly. Yeah, it's never-

Joe Rogan 1:43 Sorry!

Jimmy Smith 1:43 It's always bad. It's always bad.

Joe Rogan 1:44 You're right.

Jimmy Smith 1:45 So, yeah, that was it. When they were like, uh, "We wanna change the deal around," I was like, "Okay." And they did make a, a, like, an honest effort to keep me. They, they, they really tried, but they just... They didn't make an offer that was, that was worth me coming back. And that, that was pretty much the deal.

Joe Rogan 2:00 It is fascinating-

Jimmy Smith 2:01 So it was kind of amicable, comparatively amicable.

Joe Rogan 2:03 It's fascinating to me that in, in the world of, uh, mixed martial arts, professional mixed martial arts, there haven't been that many people that have done you... what you and I both do.

Jimmy Smith 2:12 Yes, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12 There's a small handful of people.

Jimmy Smith 2:14 You know what ya, the weird thing is about our job? Really. And, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Um, everybody thinks they got a guy. It's, it's one of those jobs that everybody thinks they can do, that they, they really go, "We'll just throw a fighter in, and then he'll be able to do it." I've seen I don't know how many of them that, that want to do... You know, even locker room interviews. "I want to get the next fighter to do that." And it's a, it's a job. It's a skill.

Joe Rogan 2:36 It's a job.

Jimmy Smith 2:36 It's really... I mean, it's one of those things where everybody thinks they can throw somebody in and do it. And I've seen s- I don't know how many try. And it's, it's tough. You really have to work at it or have a knack for it. It's, it's not the kind of thing that, you know... It's almost like coaching. I mean, how many times have you heard... I've heard of great, great jujitsu guys, like, "He's just not a great coach." He's naturally really good.

Joe Rogan 2:55 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 2:55 He's not that good at teaching it because to him it just works, and then you try and it doesn't work. You know, it's one of those things where a great fighter isn't a great coach.

Joe Rogan 3:02 Right. Sometimes, yeah.

Jimmy Smith 3:04 A great, yeah, a great fighter isn't necessarily a great broadcaster. It just doesn't work that way, so...

Joe Rogan 3:07 Yeah, some guys are just naturally good at it, though.

Jimmy Smith 3:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:09 Like Cormier is naturally fun.

Jimmy Smith 3:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:11 Like when Rousdan Namajunas knocked out, uh, Joanna Jędrczek.

Jimmy Smith 3:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:15 He starts yelling, "Thug Rose!"

Jimmy Smith 3:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:17 "Thug Rose!" Like, he, that's just pure personality.

Jimmy Smith 3:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:21 Like you either have that in you or you don't. You can't fake yelling out "Thug Rose"-

Jimmy Smith 3:25 You can't.

Joe Rogan 3:25 ... after Rousdan Namajunas KOs her.

Jimmy Smith 3:28 You, you can't fake enthusiasm.

Joe Rogan 3:29 Right.

Jimmy Smith 3:30 And that's... I, I think the-

Joe Rogan 3:31 Real enthusiasm-

Jimmy Smith 3:31 Real enthusiasm.

Joe Rogan 3:32 ... is contagious, too.

Jimmy Smith 3:33 If you really care about the sport, there are two things that, that... Well, three things, uh, that we have to do is number one is educate people, because a lot of people just... Most Ameri- It's weird because most Americans didn't grow up wrestling. They didn't grow up doing Muay Thai. They didn't grow up doing jujitsu. So a lot of our sport is, at least partially, we're introducing them to it.

Joe Rogan 3:49 Right.

Jimmy Smith 3:49 My mom doesn't know the difference between a knee bar and a leg lock. She knows boxing. She grew up watching boxing.

Joe Rogan 3:53 Sure.

Jimmy Smith 3:53 So she has a background in that. So, you know, we have to explain a lot. Number two is we got to communicate enthusiasm, that we're happy to be here, how great this thing is. You should want to be here too.

Joe Rogan 4:03 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 4:03 That, that's number two. Number three is the story. Every fight has a story, and even if we don't tell the story, we at least give them the option of the story.

Joe Rogan 4:11 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 4:11 Was Buster Douglas always a great fighter and we didn't know it? Did he have one great night? Was Mike Tyson unprepared that night? Was Mike Tyson not as good as we thought he was?

Joe Rogan 4:19 We were literally just-

Jimmy Smith 4:20 Those are all possible.

Joe Rogan 4:20 ... talking about that in the last podcast-

Jimmy Smith 4:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:22 ... about how Buster Douglas' mom died-

Jimmy Smith 4:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:24 ... before the fight, and he was just motivated like he'd never been motivated before and got himself in really good shape and had a mission.

Jimmy Smith 4:30 Right. Galvanized him like crazy, the death of his mother.

Joe Rogan 4:32 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 4:32 But, but i- it's our job to-

Joe Rogan 4:35 Right.

Jimmy Smith 4:35 ... and, and the play-by-play guy-

Joe Rogan 4:36 It makes it more exciting.

Jimmy Smith 4:37 ... to say-

Joe Rogan 4:37 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 4:38 ... you know, what are we seeing here? Are we seeing-

Joe Rogan 4:40 Right.

Jimmy Smith 4:40 ... wow, is Mike just having an off night?

Joe Rogan 4:41 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 4:41 Is Buster just having a great night? Was Buster always great and we didn't know it?

Joe Rogan 4:45 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 4:45 There are a million ways to see the story, and mostly play-by-play does that. But we do it every now and then about, hey, you know, this is... This could be a new thing. It could be an old thing.

Joe Rogan 4:52 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 4:53 It's our job to tell that story a little bit.

Joe Rogan 4:54 Well, especially when it comes to results that we think happen and why they happen in certain fights and corrections that were made, which is on the technical side of things, right?

Jimmy Smith 5:03 100%.

Joe Rogan 5:03 The technical side of things on the ground too-

Jimmy Smith 5:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:04 ... which is huge. And you're one of the f- I mean, how many guys are doing it? But you're, you're a legit Brazilian jujitsu black belt.

Jimmy Smith 5:10 Thank you very much. Appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 5:11 I think that's important.

Jimmy Smith 5:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:13 I think you have to understand transitions. You gotta understand danger. You gotta understand when someone's doing the right thing and then the percentages of them getting subbed drop substantially with each move. You gotta be there so you're seeing every step of the way going, "This guy's gonna bail on us anytime now. Here comes a scramble. What would I do? How, how do I anticipate this going down?" And being able to explain to people so they follow along. And when you do it and I follow along, it makes it more enjoyable to me. And that's, uh... I mean, I think we talked about... I don't even know if we talked about this before, but I called Dana White about you, like how many years ago?

Jimmy Smith 5:45 Four? Last time was four years-

Joe Rogan 5:46 I tried to get Jimi Smith hired by the UFC like four years ago.

Jimmy Smith 5:49 Four years ago. Four years ago, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:50 I was like, "Dude, you want better people? You want more people?"

Jimmy Smith 5:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:53 I go, "Hire that fucking guy."

Jimmy Smith 5:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:55 I go, "That guy, he knows what he's doing, man."

Jimmy Smith 5:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:57 "He knows what he's doing. He's excited. He loves the sport." And I, I was telling him, "You're a great guy." And we talk. He's genuine. I go, "He's a real fan and he's fucking really good at it, man. Go get him."

Jimmy Smith 6:06 Really love it. Really love it. I, I, I mean, I love the sport. I love it 100%.

Joe Rogan 6:09 I know you do.

Jimmy Smith 6:10 The timing didn't work out then, and then now I'm currently unemployed, so...

Joe Rogan 6:13 Well, you got to call some fucking-

Jimmy Smith 6:15 You'll see.

Joe Rogan 6:15 ... badass fights though-

Jimmy Smith 6:16 I did.

Joe Rogan 6:16 ... man. You know.

Jimmy Smith 6:16 I did.

Joe Rogan 6:17 Bellator's Welterweight Division in particular is-

Jimmy Smith 6:20 (whistles)

Joe Rogan 6:20 ... goddamn stacked right now.

Jimmy Smith 6:22 You, you know what's funny? There are certain fighters, and I was thinking about it as I was watching the Cyborg fight last Saturday. There are certain fighters you meet, and it's, like, stunning. Certain athletes. When you, when you meet LeBron James, you go, "Jesus Christ."

Joe Rogan 6:33 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 6:33 Like, I've seen him on TV.

Joe Rogan 6:35 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 6:35 But when you see him in real life, you go, "Holy shit, that guy's big." Cyborg's one of those. Douglas Lima is one of those. Have you ever met him?

Joe Rogan 6:41 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 6:42 When you meet that guy, you go, "God, you make 170 pounds?"

Joe Rogan 6:46 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 6:46 He is huge.

Joe Rogan 6:47 He is.

Jimmy Smith 6:48 He is massive.

Joe Rogan 6:49 What do you think he walks around at?

Jimmy Smith 6:50 210.

Joe Rogan 6:51 210.

Jimmy Smith 6:51 He told me.

Joe Rogan 6:52 That's what he told you?

Jimmy Smith 6:53 When, uh, let me put it this-

Joe Rogan 6:54 Jesus.

Jimmy Smith 6:54 All right, so-

Joe Rogan 6:54 That's 40 pounds. (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 6:55 When, when King Mo fought Rampage, all right, M- King Mo was 218. He stepped on the scale at 218.

Joe Rogan 7:01 Right.

Jimmy Smith 7:01 I ... So the night of the fight, I go, you know, Douglas Lima was there, and I walk up to him and I go, "You've walked at 218." And he goes, "Yeah." He's like, "Well, I don't wanna eat too much. I, like, I shouldn't, but I have." He has walked around at what King Mo walked around at. 'Cause King Mo just stepped on the scale. It really doesn't cut to make 220. I mean, he- ... 'cause the, the weight class was 220 when he fought Rampage. He walks around King Mo size. Like, they are the same size.

Joe Rogan 7:22 That is so insane.

Jimmy Smith 7:23 And he makes 170. He, he has the worst cut in terms of pounds I've ever seen. He, he deals with it well, um, but he has one of the biggest cuts I've ever seen.

Joe Rogan 7:33 Now-

Jimmy Smith 7:33 And he's, he's really good with it. Which is weird.

Joe Rogan 7:34 ... Bellator wasn't under on any IV ins- restrictions.

Jimmy Smith 7:38 Um, I, I think it's by state. We weren't as a promotion under it, I don't think. I think it's by state.

Joe Rogan 7:42 'Cause I think the-

Jimmy Smith 7:43 Certain states use them. Some states don't.

Joe Rogan 7:43 ... hardcore pro- uh, testing got instituted by USADA when-

Jimmy Smith 7:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:48 ... Nowicki came along. And I think that's when they stopped IVs. I think states still allow them.

Jimmy Smith 7:53 Yeah. As far as I know, it's still state-

Joe Rogan 7:54 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 7:54 ... for us.

Joe Rogan 7:55 And so what, what that-

Jimmy Smith 7:56 Them, sometimes.

Joe Rogan 7:56 ... for people who don't know what we're talking about, what that means is, and this is up for debate, 'cause Joe Silva claimed, um, that there had been tests done, this is what he was telling me and I believe him, that showed that the correct way of rehydrating orally, um, actually led to better results over a 24-hour period.

Jimmy Smith 8:14 I've heard that.

Joe Rogan 8:14 And that, yeah, that the IV thing was good for short-term recovery from severe dehydration, but to actually go from like a weight-cutting weight, to go back u- ... I don't know. I didn't read any of the studies. But I do know about the inherent dangers of severe weight cuts: kidney failure, you know, there's some, a couple people who died over the last year. Uh, professional or amateur-

Jimmy Smith 8:34 Wrestlers die of every f- every few years-

Joe Rogan 8:36 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 8:36 ... a wrestler dies doing it.

Joe Rogan 8:37 A young amateur Muay Thai fighter died. I think-

Jimmy Smith 8:39 Yeah. Female.

Joe Rogan 8:39 ... in Australia, I think.

Jimmy Smith 8:40 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:41 Yeah. Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 8:41 The, the, the issue for, that, that people have trouble understanding. Well, first off, I, I've, to the IV point, I've heard coaches say it's just for their head.

Joe Rogan 8:49 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 8:49 They feel better once they ... Like, they think they need the IV and it's a, like a pla- I've had coaches tell me-

Joe Rogan 8:54 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 8:55 ... it's pretty much a placebo. You, you can't do it that much more than ... Now, once again, I haven't read the studies-

Joe Rogan 8:59 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 8:59 ... but I've had coaches tell me that. That-

Joe Rogan 9:00 It's funny.

Jimmy Smith 9:00 ... my fighter just needs it for his head.

Joe Rogan 9:02 Yeah. It used to be, like, what we'd assumed you had to have. Like, if a guy's gonna cut a lot of weight, he's gonna have a guy ready with an IV. How many bags did you take? That was a thing that everybody always brought up.

Jimmy Smith 9:09 Immediately.

Joe Rogan 9:10 Yeah, how many bags?

Jimmy Smith 9:11 The, two things that, that, uh, people don't really know. When people ask me, 'cause I've been in this since about 2099, is when I first started.

Joe Rogan 9:17 2099?

Jimmy Smith 9:18 And-

Joe Rogan 9:18 You're from the future.

Jimmy Smith 9:18 From the future.

Joe Rogan 9:19 I fucking knew it.

Jimmy Smith 9:19 2099? 2099?

Joe Rogan 9:21 Dude, I knew it.

Jimmy Smith 9:21 2000 comma 99. Um, guys didn't cut like they do now. And when you look at old UFCs and you look at the size of these guys, I mean, Tito's one of the few guys who was-

Joe Rogan 9:31 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 9:31 ... right now, a legit 205. Frank Shamrock is like my size.

Joe Rogan 9:35 Yeah. Frank Shamrock-

Jimmy Smith 9:35 You know?

Joe Rogan 9:35 ... was very small for the-

Jimmy Smith 9:37 Incredibly small.

Joe Rogan 9:38 ... the package that he touched.

Jimmy Smith 9:38 Especially when he fought P- when he fought ... When Tito Ortiz and Frank Shamrock fought, it was one of the very first displays of defense and, and cardio and how critical it was in victory. 100%.

Joe Rogan 9:50 That he was just ... He was lighter. He was only like 190 when they fought.

Jimmy Smith 9:53 Dude.

Joe Rogan 9:54 And he was able to push-

Jimmy Smith 9:55 Fully clothed at 198.

Joe Rogan 9:56 Pr-

Jimmy Smith 9:56 He was 198 back then.

Joe Rogan 9:57 Was he?

Jimmy Smith 9:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:57 Wow.

Jimmy Smith 9:57 Fully clothed, taking stuff out of his pockets like, "Oh." Like a joke.

Joe Rogan 10:00 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 10:00 Like, "I'm fully clothed." So, guys cut more than they did in the early parts of the sport.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 10:03 I mean, they just cut a lot more. And when people ask me, "Well, what do you do about weight cutting? How do we change it?" One of the things about fighting in general, and, and this goes too with, you know, other aspects of the sport, you're asking people who already take a huge risk, fighting is just a huge risk, period, to not take another huge risk. Just the mentality of, "If I have to do this to win, I'm gonna do it." It, it, it's y- y- you know, you're saying, "Oh, they, they ne- they can't take that risk." Well, they're already ... They, they already have the personality of, "I don't care what I have to do. I'm getting in that fight and I'm making it." So, it's j- i- it's, you know, it's hard to ... It's, you know, what rule can you make? It's, it's hard to do. You're talking about a, a group of people that are already used to taking a huge, dangerous physical risk to even get in there. So, adding on the weight cut, it ... They're gonna take that gamble every time.

Joe Rogan 10:49 No, I agree with you-

Jimmy Smith 10:50 You know, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 10:50 ... if they can.

Jimmy Smith 10:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:52 Uh, ONE FC though is instituting some interesting new rule changes. And ONE FC is, uh, doing hydration tests.

Jimmy Smith 10:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:59 And they, they're-

Jimmy Smith 10:59 They're doing high schools now for wrestling.

Joe Rogan 11:01 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 11:01 They didn't do that beforehand.

Joe Rogan 11:02 They should.

Jimmy Smith 11:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:02 They should. And, uh, oh God, who d- I'm trying to remember who told me that this weekend. But they're essentially saying they're gonna be able to ban weight cutting. They're just gonna be able to institute the ... No one's-

Jimmy Smith 11:12 Mm.

Joe Rogan 11:12 ... gonna be able to cut weight. You just, if you, if you pass the hydration test, you're not gonna be able to cut weight. So you have to pass this hydration test at every for-n, at every turn. You can't just get on the scale and you weigh 170 pounds. "Oh, congratulations." No. No, no, no. You weigh 170 pounds, but you're in danger. Like, look at your body. Look at your hydration levels.

Jimmy Smith 11:30 But at what point are they, are they testing?

Joe Rogan 11:31 Apparently, they're doing it in three separate-

Jimmy Smith 11:32 'Cause if you don't want the card falling apart, of course.

Joe Rogan 11:34 They step, ba-bam.

Jimmy Smith 11:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:35 Not you, not you. And then half the card falls apart.

Jimmy Smith 11:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:38 I know. What they did to, to-

Jimmy Smith 11:39 So, when would they is my, that's my question.

Joe Rogan 11:41 Well, they'd have to do it early and blow all the weight classes up.

Jimmy Smith 11:44 Yeah. 100%.

Joe Rogan 11:44 Yeah, if that's what we're ... We were having this conversation-

Jimmy Smith 11:46 You have to shift everybody one, at least.

Joe Rogan 11:48 Yeah. Yeah. Or if you don't even shift them one, you find out like, "What, what weight are you really?"You know, I mean, you could be like a Luke Rockhold dude who's a giant 185er. I mean, Luke easily looks like he could be a heavyweight when you're-

Jimmy Smith 11:59 Easy.

Joe Rogan 11:59 ... walking around him.

Jimmy Smith 12:00 Easy.

Joe Rogan 12:01 He l- he's like 220 or 230 or something like that, and then he gets to... I'm... Maybe he's mad at me right now. I don't really-

Jimmy Smith 12:06 (laughs) Of lean muscle, bro.

Joe Rogan 12:09 I... Uh, a strong, lean-

Jimmy Smith 12:10 Oh.

Joe Rogan 12:10 ... 2, 3... Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 12:10 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 12:10 Y- yeah, he might not... I might be exaggerating. But at the very least, when he gets down from, uh, down to 185, he's probably coming from 200 plus pounds.

Jimmy Smith 12:17 Easy.

Joe Rogan 12:17 And a big tall 205. But then there's other guys that just don't cut that much at all.

Jimmy Smith 12:23 And, but, but what- what gets me are... is th- there's no hard and fast body type rule.

Joe Rogan 12:28 Right.

Jimmy Smith 12:28 Like I said, Douglas Zuma is huge. He makes it every time. For-

Joe Rogan 12:31 Do you ever talk to him about how he does it?

Jimmy Smith 12:33 Uh, he's told me little things, 'cause he used to not do it well and he looked like death. In the last few fights, he's looked much better. He's like... uh, he just... he tended to bloom up to like 210, 215.

Joe Rogan 12:43 And he's American Top Team, right?

Jimmy Smith 12:45 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:46 They, they have some-

Jimmy Smith 12:46 Not Coconut Creek though, but uh-

Joe Rogan 12:48 Oh.

Jimmy Smith 12:48 ... it's Atlanta somewhere?

Joe Rogan 12:51 Oh, really?

Jimmy Smith 12:51 It's somewhere down south where he's-

Joe Rogan 12:52 Oh.

Jimmy Smith 12:52 He might go there to spar or something, but he's, he's not at the main, main facility most of the time.

Joe Rogan 12:56 But there... are they all like, uh, integrated like Gracie Barros or Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing, yeah. ... like, uh, they're all... yeah.

Jimmy Smith 13:01 The same team, so he goes around to get work, but-

Joe Rogan 13:02 Right.

Jimmy Smith 13:03 ... it's, it's... and then I have guys, you know, Fernando Gonzalez, never makes weight and he looks like he's got something to lose, like he's not the most-

Joe Rogan 13:09 Hmm.

Jimmy Smith 13:09 ... shredded biggest 170 and yet he always has trouble with it. So it's weird. Certain guys, you're like, "Man, there's no way that guy can make it," and he always does. And certain guys look like they should be able to make it pretty easily and just don't. It's, it's strange.

Joe Rogan 13:20 So-

Jimmy Smith 13:20 There's no easy rule is what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 13:22 Yeah. What is the solution?

Jimmy Smith 13:22 Darrion Colby is huge at 135. Huge.

Joe Rogan 13:24 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 13:24 And he made it. He was a wrestler his whole life.

Joe Rogan 13:26 Right.

Jimmy Smith 13:26 He makes it every time and he's a giant.

Joe Rogan 13:29 Yeah, I mean, like how much of it is discipline, how much of it is a really good game plan, and a really good nutritionist. Like Cyborg or excuse me, uh, Nurmagomedov made weight easily this time.

Jimmy Smith 13:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:39 And, you know, Cyborg obviously had a hard time trying to 140, but at 145 she's been successful, you know, cutting the weight.

Jimmy Smith 13:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:45 But for Nurmagomedov, he's had some real fucking problems making 55. This time, no problems. Looked amazing.

Jimmy Smith 13:51 Well, one of the things, you know, once again, going back to storytelling for us is when someone doesn't make it, they don't make weight. Um, is it advantage the heavier guy or is it advantage the guy who... i- if you don't make weight, maybe something happened that last couple weeks of camp, that maybe a little injury kept you from losing the weight. Or is it advantage the bigger guy?

Joe Rogan 14:09 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 14:10 You know, is it, is it better to come in big or did the guy who made weight, was he a little more disciplined at the end and he has an advantage in the fight? You, you don't know at the time.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Well, the problem with Nurmagomedov obviously was the last fight before this previous spectacular fight with Barboza, he didn't make the weight because he had to go to the hospital.

Jimmy Smith 14:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:25 So that's a different animal. That's like, uh, you pushed it so far that they were... they wanted to make sure you stayed alive, so they had to bring you to a hospital. So they obviously realized there's some changes that need to be made. They made those changes and fucking hell on Friday or on Saturday night rather.

Jimmy Smith 14:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:39 Fucking hell. Dude.

Jimmy Smith 14:39 Unbelievable. That was... it, it's really weird sometimes w- when you... in any sport, I don't care what it is, when you see somebody... you know, Jordan in his prime, you just, you just can't cover the guy. It's almost like he's the only one on the court.

Joe Rogan 14:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 14:53 Nurmagomedov, it was like he was the only one in the cage. It was crazy.

Joe Rogan 14:56 It was like everything was inevitable.

Jimmy Smith 14:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Everything was inevitable.

Jimmy Smith 14:59 Yeah, it's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 14:59 The takedown was inevitable. The beatings were inevitable. You know, even if you hit him, congratulations, now you're on your ass. Y- y- getting punched in the face over and over again. You can't get up. You're getting mauled, like immediately.

Jimmy Smith 15:11 And against an excellent fighter.

Joe Rogan 15:13 Excellent, yeah.

Jimmy Smith 15:13 And people forget Barboza, Barboza is amazing.

Joe Rogan 15:15 Amazing.

Jimmy Smith 15:16 And he made him look like he's j-... and, uh, the look on his face when he got up when Barboza was like, "Hey, you were better than me." I...

Joe Rogan 15:24 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 15:24 It was almost like a-

Joe Rogan 15:26 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 15:26 ... like a shrug, wasn't even mad. It was just when you see somebody that much better, it's, it's back to the drawing board in some-

Joe Rogan 15:31 Well, I was super impressed with Barboza being able to make it to the final bell. I mean, that was amazing. Just being able to do that, that shows you what a dominant performance it was-

Jimmy Smith 15:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:41 ... by a guy like Khabib. But you also realize like what, what a world class fighter Barboza is, that he did... keeps throwing wheel kicks in the third round, and even landed one of them. He just didn't have much on him anymore.

Jimmy Smith 15:53 He didn't have the juice on him left. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:54 But fuck, man. He was still trying to win after a horrendous mauling for eight plus minutes.

Jimmy Smith 16:00 You know when I really look at fighters, when I really, when I really focus on them, especially the face, in between rounds, I look for that breaking moment of like-

Joe Rogan 16:08 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 16:08 ... uh, you know. Uh, Vitor Belfort, Randy Couture and he's sitting on the ground just-

Joe Rogan 16:13 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 16:13 ... like-

Joe Rogan 16:13 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 16:13 ... didn't even sit on a stool.

Joe Rogan 16:14 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 16:14 He sat on the ground like beat and I'm like, "This guy's beat." It's, it's when you look at them in between rounds and you see that like, "What am I doing in here?" That's when you know, you know, the men from The Boys mentally speaking. And, you know, in, in Bellator, Patricio Pitbull, I remember when he fought, when he fought, um, Daniel Straus, he's getting beat up for like four rounds and every round he looked like Lemmy at him. There was, there was... and he won in the... uh, right... uh, toward the end of the fourth round with a rear naked choke. He just never quits. And I always look for that breaking moment, man.

Joe Rogan 16:45 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 16:45 That's when, that's when you really... that's what really separates the guys who are mentally 100% there and those, those who aren't.

Joe Rogan 16:51 I think Barboza got beaten, but I don't think he got broken.

Jimmy Smith 16:53 No, I don't think so either.

Joe Rogan 16:54 If you think about the amount of time during that fight he was actually getting his ass kicked, I... when I said eight... I think I might have said rounds, I meant minutes. I think there was like eight minutes of prolonged top time and beating in that fight.

Jimmy Smith 17:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Plus. And then there's all the backward movement, trying to get away, throwing those inside leg kicks and doing everything he can, everything he can to, to create space. But for eight fucking minutes, he never gave up. He was just... or whatever it was, 15 minutes, he's just getting the fuck beaten out of him. He kept trying to win. He wasn't capable of doing it, but he never broke.

Jimmy Smith 17:24 Uh, Teddy Atlas said, "Fighters make an agreement. I'll stop trying to win if you'll stop trying to hurt me."

Joe Rogan 17:29 Whoa. Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 17:30 And he never did that.

Joe Rogan 17:31 Never did that.

Jimmy Smith 17:31 He never went, "Look, just go away. Just like-

Joe Rogan 17:33 No.

Jimmy Smith 17:33 ... leave me alone and I'll back up and you can beat me." He, he never did that. He kept throwing the whole time, which is incredible, but just no answer. How many 10-8s were there on the scorecards? Like-

Joe Rogan 17:41 Well, the thing is, Jimmy-

Jimmy Smith 17:42 ... three different card... one, one had a 10-8 every round, at least one of them, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:44 ... it was the old... it was the old scoring too that Nevada hasn't inv- uh, adopted the new rules. So in th- for people who don't know, the new rules make it easier to make distinctions between a 10-9 round, 10-8 round, 10-7 round, which I, I agree.

Jimmy Smith 17:56 They haven't adopted that? Wow.

Joe Rogan 17:57 I think. No, Nevada has not. So you-

Jimmy Smith 17:59 So that's an old school 10-8.

Joe Rogan 18:00 Yeah, it's an old school.

Jimmy Smith 18:00 It's an ass whooping 10-8, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:01 There was, there were some ridiculous scorecards that seemed to indicate to some of us that even though the new rules are better and the states haven't adopted them, the judges have decided to adopt them-

Jimmy Smith 18:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:11 ... in some sort of a weird non-declared way 'cause it just definitely seemed there was a much larger disparity in the numbers in the scorecards.

Jimmy Smith 18:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:19 But, uh, Nurmagomedov just m- just mauled him. Mauled him. I mean, mauled him in a way that you go, "Oh God."

Jimmy Smith 18:26 You're not even there.

Joe Rogan 18:27 He's just on such another level-

Jimmy Smith 18:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:30 ... that y-... you, the odds of you beating him drop so substantially after the first minute and a half. After you get... You, you saw the look in Barboza's face, it was like two minutes past into the first round and he's trying to get up, you should have looked at his face, he's like, "Fuck, how am I gonna deal with this?"

Jimmy Smith 18:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:46 Like this is so next level.

Jimmy Smith 18:48 You know what, what's really funny, it's almost to me like a throwback kind of fighter. In a, in a sense of... If you remember back in the day, guys that, that didn't have a real solid wrestling or jujitsu background, when they felt that pressure, they kind of went, "Oh, my God."

Joe Rogan 19:00 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 19:01 'Cause they just didn't have any experience with it.

Joe Rogan 19:02 Right.

Jimmy Smith 19:02 They were just like, "Holy crap," it's like a truck rolling over you. You almost saw that look on his face.

Joe Rogan 19:07 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 19:07 Like, "Oh f- like I've never felt anything like this in my life." And for someone training at Barboza's level, who you know he's trained with high level guys, he's trained with all kinds of outstanding wrestlers and jujitsu guys, to have that look like this is some crazy pressure, that's insane. Because no one has secret techniques anymore. It's not like, it's not divided skill wise. I mean, you'll have great guys in every camp and the fact that you see on someone's eye... And I, and I say this to fighters, I go, "Look, you don't want the first time you experience something to be in the cage."

Joe Rogan 19:32 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 19:32 You want to experience this in training and then you can deal with it in the cage. Barboza had a look in his eye like, "I have never felt anything like this in my life."

Joe Rogan 19:39 Ever.

Jimmy Smith 19:39 And that's incredible considering modern techniques.

Joe Rogan 19:41 Well, it seems to me that everything right now is, is next level in comparison to a year and a half, two years ago. Like, Dos Anjos beat, uh, Robbie Lawler recently in just a fucking tour de force, de force performance. Watch that fight, I was like, this is as good as Dos Anjos has ever looked, if not better.

Jimmy Smith 19:58 Real sharp.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Fucking amazing at 170, but more importantly like the, the output, the f- the, the, the amount of shots that he landed, the amount of shots that he fired, the, the endurance that he's showing. Everybody is on this complete different performance level right now.

Jimmy Smith 20:14 What I loved about that performance is one thing that generally doesn't change weight classes well when you move up is power. Meaning, Robbie Lawler, if you remember at 170 he was knocking everybody out, 185 he was like so-so. The shot that knocked somebody out at 70 when he, when he was at Strikeforce at 185 isn't gonna knock out Jacare, it's not gonna knock out Babaloo, it's not gonna r- knock out these big 185ers. So a lot of power punchers have trouble changing weight classes because the power shot just doesn't go with them. Dos Anjos looked like he knew that and when I got a volume guy at 170, I'm not gonna knock anybody out with one shot at, at 50, uh, like I did at 55. I have to throw more at 70, I have to be more accurate at 70, I have to slice them up with elbows a little more. So I like all the adjustments he made for the new weight class. He didn't try to fight like he did at 55. He's like, "I gotta throw more against these guys. I can't go one punch for one punch with Robbie Lawler."

Joe Rogan 21:00 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 21:00 That guy's a huge 170. So I liked the way his style modified with, with the weight class change.

Joe Rogan 21:04 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 21:04 A lot of guys don't do that.

Joe Rogan 21:05 I agree and I also think the use of leg kicks is critical. You gotta slow Robbie down.

Jimmy Smith 21:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:09 Robbie's a big heavy guy and he immediately started chopping. That, it is crazy to me also that that low calf kick is becoming such a giant factor in MMA. That kick is just dominant now.

Jimmy Smith 21:21 Everybody's using it.

Joe Rogan 21:22 Remember, remember what Manoff did to him after he knocked him out and couldn't walk?

Jimmy Smith 21:25 Woo.

Joe Rogan 21:25 Like he knocks him out- Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 21:26 ... and was like limping over to his corner going, "I, you know, one more and I c- I'm done."

Joe Rogan 21:30 That was one of the greatest-

Jimmy Smith 21:31 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 21:31 ... comeback from behind knockouts ever.

Jimmy Smith 21:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:33 And he's, he's eating all those leg kicks and M- Melvin is just coming after. Boom, boom, boom.

Jimmy Smith 21:37 If you haven't seen that fight folks, see it, 'cause it's, it's awesome and Melvin's just owning that leg.

Joe Rogan 21:42 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 21:42 Got a little aggressive as, as Melvin Manoff does and got clipped, man.

Joe Rogan 21:46 Got clipped with the haymaker of all haymakers.

Jimmy Smith 21:48 Haymaker. Hail Mary, man.

Joe Rogan 21:50 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 21:50 Incredible.

Joe Rogan 21:50 And then one on the way down too.

Jimmy Smith 21:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:51 When he was d- when he was out and then boom, another one left behind him.

Jimmy Smith 21:54 The Tike Goshen shot, remember that?

Joe Rogan 21:55 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 21:56 Tike's sitting there and booms-

Joe Rogan 21:57 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 21:57 ... lands with a shot, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:59 Yeah, Robbie was a brutal, brutal knockout artist. I always wanted to see a rematch between him and Nick Diaz.

Jimmy Smith 22:04 I think everybody wants to see that. That would be awesome.

Joe Rogan 22:06 How's that, how is it possible that that didn't take place?

Jimmy Smith 22:08 It's wei- there're certain matches that, that you wonder, "Man, how did that never..." You know, uh, the, the run Wanderlei was on, right? Wanderlei Detour 2.

Joe Rogan 22:15 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 22:15 Never, never happened.

Joe Rogan 22:16 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 22:16 I mean, there're certain ones you go, "Man, I can't believe that fight ever happened again." That's certainly one of them. Still could.

Joe Rogan 22:20 Definitely.

Jimmy Smith 22:20 Still could hypothetically, I mean, would still sell like crazy, you know.

Joe Rogan 22:23 I mean, I wonder if Nick Diaz if he wanted to come back would only want to come back for a title fight. I wonder if he's like that kind of money fight guy where it's like, yeah, obviously he's got some money and obviously-

Jimmy Smith 22:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:32 ... he's not beating down on anybody's door to fight.

Jimmy Smith 22:35 No.

Joe Rogan 22:35 He's not, you know, he's doing whatever the fuck he wants to do. But if you could get him back for a big money fight, I wonder if it would only be like a title fight?

Jimmy Smith 22:42 That's increasingly what's happening these days. I mean-

Joe Rogan 22:44 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 22:44 ... guys are like, "Ah, I'm not getting paid."

Joe Rogan 22:45 Like GSP. Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 22:46 Yeah. He came back for a huge money fight and that's it, you know.

Joe Rogan 22:50 It's funny, Dana White said something crazy like, uh, "Yeah, he's just gonna pack up his money and f- head back to Canada."

Jimmy Smith 22:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:55 Get a big check.

Jimmy Smith 22:56 Uh, I need three suitcases to hold all of it.

Joe Rogan 22:58 I mean.

Jimmy Smith 22:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:58 He did.

Jimmy Smith 22:59 Big money fight stuff.

Joe Rogan 23:00 Came back, won the title and then retired.

Jimmy Smith 23:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:03 It's... I mean, look, as far as like legacy if he wanted to end it right there, that's a pretty nice cherry.

Jimmy Smith 23:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:08 That's a nice one.

Jimmy Smith 23:09 That's a pretty nice cherry.

Joe Rogan 23:10 With a finish?

Jimmy Smith 23:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:11 That's pretty awesome.

Jimmy Smith 23:12 Come back up, choke the champ to sleep and say, "Nah, I'm good."

Joe Rogan 23:16 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 23:16 Now do you think, do you think he comes back for any other fighter? Michael Bisping was the perfect guy for him to come back and fight.

Joe Rogan 23:24 I think he's-

Jimmy Smith 23:24 The perfect guy for him to come back and fight.

Joe Rogan 23:25 He comes back for Conor.

Jimmy Smith 23:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:27 That's the fight.

Jimmy Smith 23:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:28 But I don't think they want to do that.

Jimmy Smith 23:30 (sighs) I don't think stylistically it's, it's... I mean, it could certainly happen, it would certainly sell, but you, you, we know how GSP fights. A, he's, he's a giant compared to Conor. He's a, he has a wrestling heavy style. I don't think it's, it's a great t- I don't think C- it would be hard for Conor to look good in that fight is the way I see it. It would be hard for... And even if he... It'd be hard for Conor to look good unless he, he caught him coming in which no one's been able to really do against GSP.

Joe Rogan 23:52 They would have to do some sort of a catch weight.

Jimmy Smith 23:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:54 Because their body composition would just be so much different-

Jimmy Smith 23:56 Wouldn't work.

Joe Rogan 23:57 ... if they did, if they really did 170. And, you know, that was an issue that he had with Nate but Nate is a legit 150 fiver.

Jimmy Smith 24:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:02 I mean, he kept saying, "Oh, you got to have some fucking attributes." You know like that Nate is a big long guy-

Jimmy Smith 24:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:08 ... and he does get heavy in between fights. But the reality is he fought successfully, made wei- weight 155 on numerous occasions easily.

Jimmy Smith 24:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:16 You know? Fought in The Ultimate Fighter at, at 155. That's his weight.

Jimmy Smith 24:19 And that was another one of those when, when he came up from 45 to 55, I think he was still in that one shot mode. And if you watch that fight again-

Joe Rogan 24:26 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 24:26 ... Conor hits him and goes, "Shit."

Joe Rogan 24:28 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 24:28 "He's still here because I'm at 55."

Joe Rogan 24:30 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 24:30 And not only does Diaz have a great chin, he's a big 50 fiver, he's well hydrated, he's... And especially when they fought, the first time was at 170, he's hydrated.

Joe Rogan 24:37 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 24:38 He hasn't cut at all. He can take a shot and that one shot ability he had at 45, oh shit, that, it's not here anymore.

Joe Rogan 24:44 Yeah, he fought a bunch of guys.

Jimmy Smith 24:44 I think he was a little bit more prepared.

Joe Rogan 24:46 Joe Rogan: Nate-

Jimmy Smith 24:46 Mephodphah. Joe Rogan: Nate fought at least twice at 70 in the UFC before Conor, too. He fought Rory. Joe Rogan: Rory and who else? Who was the other guy? Uh, who else did he fight at 70? Oh, he fought, he fought, uh, uh, again at 70. I forget who he fought.

Joe Rogan 24:58 Mm.

Jimmy Smith 24:58 Right now we're being tweeted at. Someone's-

Joe Rogan 25:00 So, "Who you fucking losers. I should have your job."

Jimmy Smith 25:02 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I'm totally looking for that tweet.

Joe Rogan 25:04 I don't remember what it was, but he had, I wanna say maybe Dong- Stungun Kim?

Jimmy Smith 25:11 That might've been it.

Joe Rogan 25:12 Is that it?

Jimmy Smith 25:12 Somebody's-

Joe Rogan 25:13 It might've been that.

Jimmy Smith 25:14 Somebody's looking it up right now for us.

Joe Rogan 25:15 Young Jamie's on the case. Is that? Is it? It's not. What does it say? It doesn't have his weight listed on the thing I was looking at.

Jimmy Smith 25:22 Um-

Joe Rogan 25:22 Well, put it up so I can take a look at it.

Jimmy Smith 25:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:24 Yeah, we sent it along. Okay. What is it? Is it Wiki?

Jimmy Smith 25:26 It's kinda far down.

Joe Rogan 25:27 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 25:27 We're kind of far down.

Joe Rogan 25:27 Just go to the Wiki, um, um, MMA record and it'll show it. Oh, look. That's it.

Jimmy Smith 25:33 Oh, there we are.

Joe Rogan 25:35 Two eggs. Down here, right? Mm-hmm. What do we got here? Roy McDonald, Dong- Yeah. Dong- Young Kim. Young Kim. So it was that. Yeah, it was. So, I was right. So he tried it for a little bit after he beat Marcus Davis. He just was having a hard time take- making the weight and then he came back to 55 and beat Takanori Gomi, beat Donald Cerrone, beat Jim Miller. Yeah. That Cerrone fight was a- that was, I think his- maybe his finest fight. Well-

Jimmy Smith 25:57 He took Cerrone apart in that fight.

Joe Rogan 25:58 He mentally fucked up-

Jimmy Smith 26:00 That was fantastic.

Joe Rogan 26:00 ... Cerrone with the trash talking.

Jimmy Smith 26:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:01 He got- he got in Cerrone's head and it became very emotional for him.

Jimmy Smith 26:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:04 Where Donald likes to be friends with the guys he fights.

Jimmy Smith 26:06 Yeah. Well, that-

Joe Rogan 26:07 Yeah. He likes to be buddies-

Jimmy Smith 26:07 With the Diaz's, that ain't gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 26:10 Yeah. Yeah. He, um, he just, he's a nice guy. Donald just likes to fight.

Jimmy Smith 26:15 He's a-

Joe Rogan 26:15 He's a really nice guy though.

Jimmy Smith 26:16 But to- to- to loop it back to our earlier discussion about- about weight cutting, there's a reason guys do it. I mean, Diaz who's a great 55-er is a so-so 70.

Joe Rogan 26:24 Right.

Jimmy Smith 26:25 And, uh, uh, you know, a- a fantastic BJ Penn at 55. The- the- to me, the worst thing that ever happened to BJ Penn was when he knocked out Matt Hughes and thought, "I can fight at 70." He was 1-5-1 at- at- at 70.

Joe Rogan 26:36 Right. Well, he choked him out once-

Jimmy Smith 26:37 You know?

Joe Rogan 26:37 ... then he knocked him out.

Jimmy Smith 26:38 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 26:39 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 26:39 ... initially when he went to 170 pounds.

Joe Rogan 26:40 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 26:41 It was the only- the only fighter he ever beat at 170 was Matt Hughes-

Joe Rogan 26:45 Right.

Jimmy Smith 26:45 ... in- in the UFC. So what that did is that, I think he fought 185, remember on the Rock, when he took on Gracie. But-

Joe Rogan 26:51 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 26:52 Uh, two Gracies. He fought, uh, Rodrigo too.

Joe Rogan 26:54 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 26:54 But once he had that idea that he could beat these guys at 170, I mean, you saw what Diaz did to him. I mean, he just wasn't ready. Rory ate him alive. It's just, a great 55-er isn't always a great 70. Robbie Lawler at 70 is not a great 185-er. So it's hard-

Joe Rogan 27:08 No, the Rory and the Mick ones-

Jimmy Smith 27:10 ... for me today.

Joe Rogan 27:10 ... are really hard to watch.

Jimmy Smith 27:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:12 Which, you know, and then was ex- sort of accentuated back when BJ made his return at 45.

Jimmy Smith 27:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:18 And then you go, "Okay, well this makes more sense."

Jimmy Smith 27:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:20 Like y- you were, at 55 when he fought Diego Sanchez, he was one of the baddest 55-ers of all time.

Jimmy Smith 27:25 Ever.

Joe Rogan 27:26 He was a monster. But for whatever reason, he just, you know, never quite... That- that level was only attained a few times.

Jimmy Smith 27:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:34 You know?

Jimmy Smith 27:35 Yeah. And he- he's one of those guys where- where, I mean, I was talking to Josh Thompson recently. We went backstage in New York and, you know, he used to train with Frank Shamrock and, uh, and, uh, BJ Penn and said... (laughs) They were sitting there with an exercise ball and they'd already been training for a while and they said, "We're trying to stand on this exercise ball and we're trying and trying and falling and falling." And BJ walks in, like, you know, an hour late for practice and says, "What are you guys doing?" And he goes, "Oh, we're trying to stand on this exercise ball." And BJ jumped on it and went, "Okay," and walked back in it.

Joe Rogan 28:03 Whoa.

Jimmy Smith 28:03 They'd been trying for, like, an hour to stand on this thing.

Joe Rogan 28:05 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 28:06 And so (laughs) , you know, I've heard a million stories of- of that. BJ w- you know, coming in late to practice, smoking everybody and leaving.

Joe Rogan 28:12 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 28:12 Like, you know. I- I never trained with him, I don't know. But- but you have that sense. He's one of those you go, "Man, if- if I had..." If you had, you know, uh, BJ Penn's ability, which is off the chart incredible, with the longevity and work ethic of, like, a Matt Hughes. I mean, he'd might still be champion. It's unbelievable what that guy had. Really unbelievable. But like you said, it was in spurts and fits and then he left UFC for a while because he didn't like the money or they got rid of the 55 division and, you know, these fits and starts, man. And he fought Machida at heavyweight.

Joe Rogan 28:41 It's insane. It was over 205.

Jimmy Smith 28:43 It's insane. Over 205, man. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:45 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 28:45 It's incredible.

Joe Rogan 28:46 I think Machida was like 210 or something in that fight.

Jimmy Smith 28:47 He's incredible. Yeah, you know.

Joe Rogan 28:49 He fought Duane Ludwig over there.

Jimmy Smith 28:50 Yup.

Joe Rogan 28:51 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 28:51 Armed triangle choked him out. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:52 And the Rumble and The Rock fights were fucking great.

Jimmy Smith 28:55 Oh, the Gomi fight is awesome.

Joe Rogan 28:56 It's great.

Jimmy Smith 28:56 I love that fight.

Joe Rogan 28:57 It was a great idea. He's like, "Fuck it. I'll make my own promotion."

Jimmy Smith 29:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:01 Yeah. I mean, that's balls.

Jimmy Smith 29:02 And Hawaii used to be a really fertile ground for MMA.

Joe Rogan 29:04 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 29:04 That used to be, man-

Joe Rogan 29:05 Sure.

Jimmy Smith 29:06 ... unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Yeah, man.

Jimmy Smith 29:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:08 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 29:08 Super Brawl, Rumble in the Rock-

Joe Rogan 29:09 Those Super Brawl fights-

Jimmy Smith 29:10 ... PMI con.

Joe Rogan 29:10 ... were fucking great.

Jimmy Smith 29:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:13 Back in the day.

Jimmy Smith 29:13 Vitor John Hess, bro. Come on.

Joe Rogan 29:15 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Come on, man.

Jimmy Smith 29:16 Vitor John Hess was over there. Jon Lober.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Mayhem. Joe Shamrock.

Jimmy Smith 29:19 Oh, that's right. Jon Lober Shamrock.

Joe Rogan 29:21 Yeah, way back in the day, man.

Jimmy Smith 29:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:22 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 29:22 Mayhem had a bunch of fights over there. They had big tournaments over there in the beginning.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Mayhem... Mayhem and Egan Inoue, remember that?

Jimmy Smith 29:27 Yep.

Joe Rogan 29:27 Egan Inoue got Mayhem in a crazy Kimura.

Jimmy Smith 29:29 Yep.

Joe Rogan 29:29 Mayhem just kept rolling out of it-

Jimmy Smith 29:30 Wouldn't tap.

Joe Rogan 29:30 ... rolling out of it and wouldn't tap.

Jimmy Smith 29:32 Spanking him and then hitting him.

Joe Rogan 29:34 Woo! Yeah, I remember that. Frank Trigg and Robbie Lawler back then.

Jimmy Smith 29:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:37 Remember? In Hawaii?

Jimmy Smith 29:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:38 Holy shit.

Jimmy Smith 29:39 Miller-Lawler.

Joe Rogan 29:40 That's right.

Jimmy Smith 29:40 Miller beat him.

Joe Rogan 29:41 That's right, he did.

Jimmy Smith 29:41 Miller choked him out, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:42 That's right. Shoot, Mayhem Miller was a bad-

Jimmy Smith 29:45 Monster.

Joe Rogan 29:45 ... motherfucker.

Jimmy Smith 29:46 Monster.

Joe Rogan 29:47 He was a bad motherfucker in the day.

Jimmy Smith 29:47 We trained together. He was one of my first training partners. I started with Team Punishment in like 2000, '99, 2000.

Joe Rogan 29:51 Wow.

Jimmy Smith 29:52 And Mayhem was there. And, uh, you know, rolling with that guy was crazy.

Joe Rogan 29:57 Super skillful.

Jimmy Smith 29:58 Unbelievably skillful.

Joe Rogan 29:59 Great chokes.

Jimmy Smith 29:59 And funky and crazy and...

Joe Rogan 30:00 Yeah. (coughs) Great chokes.

Jimmy Smith 30:02 Flexible and everything, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:04 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think his finest performance was against Sakuraba.

Jimmy Smith 30:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:07 That's what I think Mayhem's finest performance was.

Jimmy Smith 30:09 He was one of-

Joe Rogan 30:10 Just so, like, just technical-

Jimmy Smith 30:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:11 ... and clean and just, uh, went through him. Just chop, chop, bang, bang, smash, choke.

Jimmy Smith 30:16 I think he was one of those guys, uh, looking back on it, there's certain guys who I'm thinking around Josh Barnett a bit, I think Shaolin a little bit, who-... had they s- h- he didn't settle down in a promotion right in his prime and really-

Joe Rogan 30:31 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 30:32 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 30:32 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 30:32 'Cause he was in Hawaii, he was bouncing around a little bit. Josh Barnett had spent his prime kinda bouncing around a lot.

Joe Rogan 30:36 Yep.

Jimmy Smith 30:36 By the time he made his UFC run, he wasn't... It was late in his career 'cause remember he fought GSP, took a long break off and came back and just wasn't the same guy. You know, and you, and you wonder sometimes... I think maybe in his prime, Vitor Shalin might be the best 55-er in the world in his prime, but he was in Shooto. He would move around a lot in Japan and just was off the US radar, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:53 And that was, uh, y- Cavalcante too, right? The GZ.

Jimmy Smith 30:56 Jz Cavalcante, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:56 That, that was a big issue with him.

Jimmy Smith 30:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:58 Like back in the day, people were saying he was the best 155-pounder alive. Like a lot of the guys that trained with him.

Jimmy Smith 31:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:02 They were-

Jimmy Smith 31:02 By the time he came to the States, it was-

Joe Rogan 31:04 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 31:04 It was just a little bit further past it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:06 Yeah, there's been a few of those cases, right? Like Josh Thompson, who we're talking about.

Jimmy Smith 31:10 Yep.

Joe Rogan 31:10 At one point in time was the best lightweight in the world.

Jimmy Smith 31:12 Yep.

Joe Rogan 31:12 Or, or one of them. And then had some of his best fights with Gilbert, who was also at the same time-

Jimmy Smith 31:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:17 ... in the same bracket. And they fought in Strikeforce while they were at peaking, you know?

Jimmy Smith 31:21 Fantastic fights.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Whoo!

Jimmy Smith 31:23 But the thing is-

Joe Rogan 31:23 Go back and watch those folks.

Jimmy Smith 31:24 They, they are awesome guys, but, but what people don't understand who, who maybe are new to the sport, the ecosystem you could... Used to be different. You could make good money-

Joe Rogan 31:32 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 31:32 ... fighting for ICON Sports in Hawaii. There wasn't a lot of incentive-

Joe Rogan 31:35 Right.

Jimmy Smith 31:35 ... to move around. And guys moved around much easier. It was, it wa- you know, "Oh, I fought here a couple times and here a couple times."

Joe Rogan 31:42 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 31:42 They weren't as restrictive with talent as it is now where it's, you know, belt or fighters don't move over and UFC fighters don't move over until they're done with their contracts. Guys moved around a lot and-

Joe Rogan 31:49 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 31:49 And so somebody like Josh Barnett could move around a little bit more and, and make more money than he would settling down somewhere. But it kept him off the radar of a lot of US fans.

Joe Rogan 31:57 Well, how about Yves Edwards?

Jimmy Smith 31:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:59 Yves Edwards was probably the best 155-pounder in the world and the UFC got rid of the division.

Jimmy Smith 32:04 Uh, y- you know, it's so... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:05 Remember that?

Jimmy Smith 32:06 It's hard to explain that to people that they once cut the 55 division and at the time-

Joe Rogan 32:11 It was gone.

Jimmy Smith 32:11 ... uh, he had just knocked out Josh Thompson.

Joe Rogan 32:12 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 32:12 With that, that head kick off the spinning back fist.

Joe Rogan 32:15 Highlight reel Headkick knockout.

Jimmy Smith 32:15 One of my favorite of all time.

Joe Rogan 32:16 Oh, man.

Jimmy Smith 32:17 And, uh, they got rid of the 55-pound division right after that knockout, right that- right in that era. And once again, by the time he came back, he fought in Pride, beat Machida, uh, yeah, beat Machida over in Pride, lost to Joachim Hansen. Um, by the time he came back, it was, he was just too late. He was at the end of his run.

Joe Rogan 32:36 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 32:37 You know?

Joe Rogan 32:37 Yeah, man. He fought Jorge Masvidal-

Jimmy Smith 32:40 Oh.

Joe Rogan 32:40 ... in Bodog too. Remember that?

Jimmy Smith 32:41 Yes, he did. Got knocked out. Yeah, I remember that fight.

Joe Rogan 32:43 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 32:43 Right here. Cuts him, spinning back fist, boom.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Yeah. Boom. They both threw at the same time.

Jimmy Smith 32:49 Oh, that's just blood sport shit.

Joe Rogan 32:50 Yeah, that was when Yves was at the top of the food chain.

Jimmy Smith 32:52 Great guy. Love Yves.

Joe Rogan 32:53 Oh, the best.

Jimmy Smith 32:54 Yeah. Trained with him a couple times when I first started.

Joe Rogan 32:56 Super skillful, super nice guy.

Jimmy Smith 32:58 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 32:59 Um, so tho- those guys were, you know-

Jimmy Smith 33:01 Cut loose. They had to-

Joe Rogan 33:02 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 33:02 They had to go somewhere.

Joe Rogan 33:03 They had to find, uh, a place for them and then Strikeforce became the spot-

Jimmy Smith 33:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:07 ... where you had the, the Gilbert, Josh Thompson wars. You had, uh, Tim Kennedy had some great fights over there.

Jimmy Smith 33:13 Clay Guida, that's where he got his start when he beat Josh. Big, huge upset.

Joe Rogan 33:16 Rockhold. Rockhold came from there.

Jimmy Smith 33:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:18 That's right. That's when Clay beat, beat Josh.

Jimmy Smith 33:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:19 It was a huge, huge upset. Yeah, man there were some good fights over in Strikeforce.

Jimmy Smith 33:24 There really were. I like the tournament format. That was fun.

Joe Rogan 33:26 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 33:26 You know? The heavyweight division was awesome at a time when the UFC division was, was at a low point. The heavyweight division-

Joe Rogan 33:32 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 33:32 ... was at a low point. I thought Strikeforce was great.

Joe Rogan 33:34 Yeah. It's just hard for people to accept talent levels of folks that aren't in the big shows. It's like it took Marlon Moraes to come over and, you know, look the way he looked in, um, his last fight. You know, when you see, when you see like Justin Gaethje-

Jimmy Smith 33:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:54 ... come over from World Series of Fighting and see the, the fucking brawl he had with Michael Johnson.

Jimmy Smith 33:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:59 Then the crazy fight with Eddie Alvarez, you realize like, "Oh, this guy's been like this all along?"

Jimmy Smith 34:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:04 You know, and then when Moraes knocks out Aljamain Sterling with that, that... Well, he was trying to kick him, but he hit him with the knee.

Jimmy Smith 34:09 Yep.

Joe Rogan 34:09 But it... But I mean, KOs him, flatlines him and he realizes like, "Oh, this guy is fucking for real." This is a guy that just beat Renan Barao, right?

Jimmy Smith 34:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:17 Aljamain just beats Renan Barao, Moraes starches him with a high kick and you're like, "Whoa, this guy was in the wor- World Series of Fighting." People didn't really look at that.

Jimmy Smith 34:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:27 It's like he's top shelf talent.

Jimmy Smith 34:29 When Eddie came from Bellator.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Yep, same thing.

Jimmy Smith 34:31 So he comes over to the UFC and, and you could argue, you could argue that Eddie was in his physical prime at Bellator. He was a little bit younger, a little bit sharper. He comes over to the UFC, does the same thing, knocks people out, wins a belt, and suddenly he's on everybody's radar. And it's like, "Well, you know, he was doing that shit."

Joe Rogan 34:43 But you remember he lost to Donald first.

Jimmy Smith 34:45 Yeah, he did. He did.

Joe Rogan 34:46 (coughs) Donald, uh, exposed the weaknesses to leg kicks.

Jimmy Smith 34:48 He did.

Joe Rogan 34:49 Yeah. That was one of Donald's best fights.

Jimmy Smith 34:50 He did. He did. He did. When you think about what Eddie went through, when you go Cowboy Cerrone-

Joe Rogan 34:54 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 34:54 Then it was Gilbert Melendez was next-

Joe Rogan 34:56 Yep, yep.

Jimmy Smith 34:56 ... for him. Do Sanjos, it was like, Jesus Christ-

Joe Rogan 34:58 Yep.

Jimmy Smith 34:58 ... that was a murderer's run.

Joe Rogan 34:59 Yep, yep. And the Do Sanjos KO was just crazy.

Jimmy Smith 35:03 Yeah. Eddie always... Is, is always gonna have power.

Joe Rogan 35:05 That's a savage.

Jimmy Smith 35:06 He's a f-

Joe Rogan 35:06 Such fun fucking dude to watch.

Jimmy Smith 35:08 And he gets dropped in like almost every fight (laughs) he's in.

Joe Rogan 35:10 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 35:10 It was just like a thing. Like, "When's Eddie gonna get dropped?" Boom, and he gets up and keeps fighting. It's almost like he, it wakes him up.

Joe Rogan 35:15 Well, he's just-

Jimmy Smith 35:16 You know?

Joe Rogan 35:16 ... so ferocious-

Jimmy Smith 35:17 Great guy too if you get a minute.

Joe Rogan 35:18 He's, he's fantastic.

Jimmy Smith 35:18 Yeah, he's a great guy.

Joe Rogan 35:19 He's so ferocious that it's almost inevitable that he's gonna get tagged.

Jimmy Smith 35:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:22 Because he's just so like throwing it all to the wind. Let's see.

Jimmy Smith 35:26 100%.

Joe Rogan 35:26 Let's find out. He's confident that he can get through it better than you can.

Jimmy Smith 35:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:30 So he's just go- (laughs) like everybody's gonna get cracked. Like that's why the Gaethje fight was so engaging. Like you knew this is what this fight was gonna be and it, it was one of the rare fights that 100% lived up to the hype.

Jimmy Smith 35:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:42 It was exactly what we thought it was gonna be. It was fucking madness from the beginning to the end.

Jimmy Smith 35:46 And when you look at how many... Some of these, you listed how many champs from different organizations he's beaten in his career.

Joe Rogan 35:50 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 35:51 Eddie's beaten them all.

Joe Rogan 35:51 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 35:52 He's beaten them all, you know, 'cause he was one of those guys... Once again, going back to what we were talking about where he moved around a lot in his prime, you know, w- went from Japan to Bellator and was off a lot of fans' radars. He was like, uh, like that the... You know, the people that really follow MMA knew Eddie Alvarez.

Joe Rogan 36:06 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 36:06 But your casual fan didn't until he made his UFC transition.

Joe Rogan 36:09 Is he the only guy that ever won the title in both organizations?

Jimmy Smith 36:12 Bellator and UFC?

Joe Rogan 36:13 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 36:13 Uh, yes.

Joe Rogan 36:14 Yeah, right?

Jimmy Smith 36:15 Yeah. Mm-hmm. No one else has it.

Joe Rogan 36:16 (clears throat) Yeah. I mean, that's pretty goddamn impressive.

Jimmy Smith 36:19 That's incredible.

Joe Rogan 36:19 I think the other guy who has a chance is Lima or Rory depending upon-

Jimmy Smith 36:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:23 ... who wins that fight 'cause yeah, this is a-

Jimmy Smith 36:24 Yeah, the winner of that fight is right there with everybody.

Joe Rogan 36:26 Right there with them-

Jimmy Smith 36:27 Right there.

Joe Rogan 36:27 Right there with everybody.

Jimmy Smith 36:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:28 I mean, you can't deny it. Rory beat Tyron in a very...... dominant decision.

Jimmy Smith 36:33 Completely, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:34 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 36:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:34 I mean, and he's lost to guys, he lost to Lawler, and of course, Lawler got knocked out by Tyron, so you can't do MMA math.

Jimmy Smith 36:39 Doesn't work.

Joe Rogan 36:40 But Tyron's the champ, and Rory beat him.

Jimmy Smith 36:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:43 Like that's, there's no MMA math-

Jimmy Smith 36:44 He's there.

Joe Rogan 36:45 ... involved in that.

Jimmy Smith 36:45 He's there.

Joe Rogan 36:46 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 36:46 He's-

Joe Rogan 36:46 Yeah. I think Tyron's better now. I really do.

Jimmy Smith 36:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:49 Definitely, 100%. And, you know, maybe it would be different if they fought again, but it's just statistically interesting.

Jimmy Smith 36:56 He says the things, when I talked to him, when he came over to Bellator. I... You know, it's funny, we do fighter, fighter meetings, fighter interviews where I sit them down and I talk to them about the upcoming fights and everything. And I don't pay attention to what they say as much as how they say it. And I have to say, Rory MacDonald, when he came in, I went, "This guy wants to be champion." He's not, he's not coming over here going, "I'm gonna get paid." No, to... I mean, he really has a fire in him to be champion. He is 100% devoted to it. And, uh, that puts him in rare air. And Lima, if you haven't seen that guy fight, man, I... When he hits you, you don't know where you are. He is fun- he puts everything behind every punch. And he can start to anybody in the division. The question to me is, can he handle the take downs? Because take down defense has been suspect in the past, and we'll see if he can handle the take down of Rory.

Joe Rogan 37:43 Yeah, because that's exactly what Rory used on Paul Daley. He just went right through Paul Daley, and-

Jimmy Smith 37:48 And he cracked him for it and that's what impressed me is-

Joe Rogan 37:49 He did.

Jimmy Smith 37:49 ... he cracked him.

Joe Rogan 37:50 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 37:50 And i- it kind of made Daley hesitate and then boom, take down submission.

Joe Rogan 37:53 Yeah, you could see-

Jimmy Smith 37:54 Second round.

Joe Rogan 37:55 ... that he, he wanted to let Daley know, this is a fight. "I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a danger on the feet standing. And then guess what? Oh, look, I'm on the ground."

Jimmy Smith 38:02 "I'm not afraid of you anymore."

Joe Rogan 38:03 "And I'm on top of you, and now you're getting strangled."

Jimmy Smith 38:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:05 Yeah, as long as he's not afraid of him standing up, then there's no hesitancy in engaging, and he wasn't af- I mean, he's the one who drew. I mean, he's the one-

Jimmy Smith 38:12 He did.

Joe Rogan 38:12 ... who landed first. He's top of the food chain, in my opinion. I think, I think he's right up there with anybody at 170 pounds-

Jimmy Smith 38:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:18 ... in the world. And I'd like to see him back in the UFC for selfish reasons.

Jimmy Smith 38:21 Of course you would.

Joe Rogan 38:22 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 38:22 I don't understand.

Joe Rogan 38:23 And I want to see what the fuck is going to happen now. I mean, the whole division is just topsy-turvy right now.

Jimmy Smith 38:28 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:29 You know? 155 and 170, it's all craziness. It's just so, there's so much happening right now with RDA just dominating Robbie Lawler like that, and people clamoring for a title fight for him. And now Tyron had to get shoulder surgery. So, Tyron had a torn labrum, apparently tried to rehab it and eventually wound up getting surgery, so he's out for several months, you know, where he can't do shit.

Jimmy Smith 38:52 A tough thing whenever y- you know, Bellator or UFC or wherever, whenever you have that backlog, whenever you have a champ who can't defend their title or something like that, or he's out for a little bit, the piranhas, I mean, they eat each other.

Joe Rogan 39:03 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 39:04 You know? It, if there's no, "Oh, we're gonna get the title." You can go through your prime waiting for that guy to come back from surgery, that could be a year, it's like, whatever it is. In a division that's, that's stacked, and these guys are killers, you can go through your whole prime trying to climb up that mountain again. It is tough. Very tough.

Joe Rogan 39:19 That's the difference between boxing and MMA, right? 'Cause in boxing, the, your manager would make you keep that number one contender position.

Jimmy Smith 39:26 100%.

Joe Rogan 39:26 Yeah. They, they would, they would wait on that one. "Let's wait on this one." Don't want to take a risk.

Jimmy Smith 39:31 Or you'd fight nobodies. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:32 Yeah, you'd fight some Joe Lewis bum of the month club.

Jimmy Smith 39:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:35 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 39:36 Yeah, that was the thing about boxing.

Joe Rogan 39:37 You know? Yeah. Guys who would take warm-up fights, tuneup fights. Yeah. And those would also be highlight fights, 'cause, you know, you'd tee off on some guy that was below them, and everybody would get super excited about this guy that Tyson's about to fight-

Jimmy Smith 39:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:50 ... or whatever it was.

Jimmy Smith 39:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 39:51 You know what's funny? I was talking to Steve Far- I talked to Steve Farhood today, actually. We ended up chatting a little bit. He does the boxing for Showtime.

Joe Rogan 39:56 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 39:56 He's their unofficial scorer. That guy used to be editor for Ring Magazine for, like, 30 years. You can't stump him about boxing at all.

Joe Rogan 40:05 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 40:05 And I've tried. I've had some obscure stuff. He is phenomenal everything he knows. We were talking once about the heavyweight division and, "Oh, it's not really good right now." And he, he looked at me and he goes, "It usually isn't." He said, "The, the heavyweight division usually isn't the most stacked division in boxing. We remember the eras when it was because that really stands out to us, but generally it's not that good." Usually 47 is the marquee division with great fighters in it.

Joe Rogan 40:26 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 40:26 He's like, "We... The reason Tyson stands out so much is..." You talk about how there was nobody in the fight in the 80s. He goes, "Well, they're usually, what, they're whole decades where it wasn't that good."

Joe Rogan 40:34 Sure.

Jimmy Smith 40:34 You know, it happens all the time.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Remember when Tony Tubbs was a champ?

Jimmy Smith 40:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:37 Yeah, there was a lot of guys. (coughs)

Jimmy Smith 40:39 Tony Tucker, remember him?

Joe Rogan 40:40 Sure. There was a lot of guys.

Jimmy Smith 40:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:42 Post, uh, Larry Holmes-

Jimmy Smith 40:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:44 ... there was a, just a mass amount of guys.

Jimmy Smith 40:46 Yeah. Trevor Berbick, I mean...

Joe Rogan 40:48 Sure.

Jimmy Smith 40:49 Guys who are kind of lost to history at this point, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:51 Yeah, that's who Tyson beat, remember?

Jimmy Smith 40:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:52 Rory was the champ.

Jimmy Smith 40:54 Fel- fell down three times from one punch.

Joe Rogan 40:55 That was crazy.

Jimmy Smith 40:56 I remember it well. M- Mills Lane was the referee.

Joe Rogan 40:58 He was 20, right?

Jimmy Smith 41:00 Yes.

Joe Rogan 41:00 (coughs) Sorry about that, folks.

Jimmy Smith 41:02 Youngest, youngest heavyweight champion of all time.

Joe Rogan 41:03 Why I'm coughing. I'm not even sick, but it's almost like... I feel like I have a, um... You know how you eat pistachios?

Jimmy Smith 41:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:11 And you get one of them little... Not the, not the shell, but that little outside layer of the pistachio. I almost feel like I got a little piece of that in the back of my throat.

Jimmy Smith 41:18 Could be. You never know man.

Joe Rogan 41:20 Could be, never know.

Jimmy Smith 41:21 Mm.

Joe Rogan 41:21 Could be just that jinx of having another commentator across from you, you know?

Jimmy Smith 41:24 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:24 You're trying to-

Jimmy Smith 41:25 Makes you cough?

Joe Rogan 41:26 ... project more, you know? You're trying to-

Jimmy Smith 41:27 Oh, thanks for-

Joe Rogan 41:28 Like a little battle bruh.

Jimmy Smith 41:29 I think it's nice.

Joe Rogan 41:29 Are we battling?

Jimmy Smith 41:30 Yeah, no, we're good, bro. We're good, bro. Come on.

Joe Rogan 41:34 Ah. I want to know what the fuck is going to happen with Conor.

Jimmy Smith 41:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Because-

Jimmy Smith 41:38 That's, I mean, you and everybody else.

Joe Rogan 41:40 Because Khabib-

Jimmy Smith 41:40 You and everybody else.

Joe Rogan 41:41 After this performance (coughs) Khabib has set it up to a place where he's the most terrifying lightweight contender in the world. Then you have Tony Ferguson, who's a motherfucker, who's the interim championship- champion.

Jimmy Smith 41:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:55 And then you have Conor who, who knows what's gonna happen with him. And I think the UFC is going to give him a little while, going to give him some time. You know, "Hey, let the holidays pass, see what the fuck happens." And then they're going to have to make some moves. But they want to do a Russia fight.

Jimmy Smith 42:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:11 And if they want to do a Russia fight, I know a guy.

Jimmy Smith 42:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:15 I know a g- I know a guy that'll sell some fucking tickets in Russia, baby.

Jimmy Smith 42:19 Yeah. (claps)

Joe Rogan 42:20 Tony Ferguson and Khabib Nurmagomedov off in Russia. What? Could be-

Jimmy Smith 42:25 Did you hear what he said on Twitter about this? Conor's like stance? What did Conor say? I'll let you... I'll let you... if you're reading this.

Joe Rogan 42:30 What did he say?

Jimmy Smith 42:30 I skin, I skin your pets and only wear them once. Oh, that was his response.

Joe Rogan 42:32 Oh, yeah.

Jimmy Smith 42:33 Come on, that's-

Narrator 42:34 ... God.

Joe Rogan 42:35 Quit tweeting.

Narrator 42:36 Truly, truly get on your fucking knees and beg me. Otherwise, I don't give a bollocks. My whiskey is out this year, and that's Diddy bread. (laughs)

42:45 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 42:45 No, but I think below that is the-

Narrator 42:47 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 42:47 So, he, he tweeted the, the, the bear thing, and then it was, "I skin your pets and I wear them once."

Narrator 42:52 Oh, yeah, that's right.

Jimmy Smith 42:53 That was pretty funny.

Narrator 42:54 That's, uh, pretty funny.

Jimmy Smith 42:55 That was comparatively witty.

Narrator 42:57 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 42:57 Yeah, I, I, I slaughter your pets and wear them as coats and only wear them once.

Joe Rogan 43:00 And I only wear them once.

Narrator 43:01 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 43:01 Yeah, that's pretty funny. But there, there's a-

Joe Rogan 43:05 It'd be a lot of, it's good trash talk. I like it.

Jimmy Smith 43:07 Have you ever seen a documentary called, uh, Bobby Fischer Against The World?

Joe Rogan 43:10 No.

Jimmy Smith 43:10 Follow chess? There was a, uh, there's a documentary about Bobby Fischer called Bobby Fischer Against The World. And whether or not you're into chess, you should really, really watch it.

Joe Rogan 43:16 I'm into Bobby Fischer.

Jimmy Smith 43:17 Yeah, okay, it's called Bobby Fischer Against The World.

Joe Rogan 43:19 He's a tricky guy.

Jimmy Smith 43:20 Yeah, he is, was. And, uh, anyway, they interview one of his, his friends, his long friends, long, lifelong friends, named Dr. Anthony Sady. And their last conversation before Bobby cut him off, he said, "Bobby, if you don't play chess, eventually there'll come a time where no one will ask you to play chess."

Narrator 43:42 Hmm.

Jimmy Smith 43:44 That's the situation, is, you know, you can keep doing this in tweets, but the reason you're famous and the reason people, you have, what you have in front of you is because you fight. And there comes a time when, like I said, the division, the, the sport and the division and everybody, it'll move past you. Now, Conor may have enough money that he doesn't care about that, but that, that's always a risk. You're n- you know, you're an old school, right? You know, Sugar Ray Robinson tried to be a, a dancer entertainer-

Joe Rogan 44:07 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 44:08 ... and he got old and they went-

Joe Rogan 44:09 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 44:09 ... "We wanna see you fight, and that's all you're gonna get paid for."

Narrator 44:13 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 44:13 Now, he may not have enough money that he doesn't care about that. It's certainly possible. But there's no sport, there's no division that won't move past you eventually. And that would be a shame.

Joe Rogan 44:24 And he thinks he has enough money.

Jimmy Smith 44:25 He doesn't have to have money. Yeah, everybody thinks that all the time.

Joe Rogan 44:26 But he's spending like Floyd Mayweather.

Jimmy Smith 44:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:30 I mean, he's, he's going off. If you go off like that, after a while you're gonna run out of money.

Jimmy Smith 44:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:36 I mean, it might be 20 years from now, but, you know, to see him-

Jimmy Smith 44:39 It's still 20 years.

Joe Rogan 44:40 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 44:40 And, and your window to make money is-

Joe Rogan 44:42 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 44:42 ... this big in professional sports.

Joe Rogan 44:43 Right. You see him pushing 50 making a comeback.

Jimmy Smith 44:44 I'm holding out my fingers for people who are just listening to this.

Joe Rogan 44:47 Yeah, I don't know if that's, uh, I don't know if that's sustainable. I don't know if he's got enough money to live the rest of his life, but he, he certainly doesn't if he just spends like crazy. I mean, he might just go through a phase and then he might decide to cherry pick specific fights to make tremendous amounts of money. And then there was some talk about a Pacquiao fight in boxing. Who knows what he's gonna do?

Jimmy Smith 45:08 But his only sustainable avenue is MMA.

Joe Rogan 45:11 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 45:11 Meaning, once again, in boxing, let's say he fights Manny Pacquiao. Let's say he loses. For argument's sake, let's say he loses that fight.

Joe Rogan 45:17 Right.

Jimmy Smith 45:17 People are gonna be tired of spending 70 bucks on a pay-per-view to watch him take on a great guy and fall short.

Joe Rogan 45:22 But if he fights-

Jimmy Smith 45:23 It won't last.

Joe Rogan 45:23 ... Tony Ferguson in a unification fight and KOs Tony Ferguson, then-

Jimmy Smith 45:28 Then-

Joe Rogan 45:28 ... he can fight Manny Pacquiao all day long.

Jimmy Smith 45:30 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 45:30 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 45:31 It's, it's MMA that sustains him in a sense.

Joe Rogan 45:33 Don't get mad at me, Tony. It's just a for instance, a possibility.

Jimmy Smith 45:36 For, for argument's sake, Tony.

Joe Rogan 45:37 Yeah, it's, um, I'm taking the devil's advocate position, Tony.

Jimmy Smith 45:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:40 Tony got mad at me wearing the hat.

Jimmy Smith 45:42 Good.

Joe Rogan 45:42 He's like, "What are you changing into your 10th planet gear, bro?"

Jimmy Smith 45:44 What were you wearing?

Joe Rogan 45:46 Um, I don't know how to say it. Papuca.

Jimmy Smith 45:48 Oh, that, for, for the-

Joe Rogan 45:49 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 45:49 Oh, come on, it's a gift.

Joe Rogan 45:50 It's a gift.

Jimmy Smith 45:51 You have to wear that.

Joe Rogan 45:51 And, and listen, just because he's got a problem with it, I love Tony, but I also love Khabib. Khabib's a bad motherfucker.

Jimmy Smith 45:58 How-

Joe Rogan 45:58 To, to not, to deny that is ridiculous.

Jimmy Smith 46:00 Right. That, yeah, let's do it. So, all right, I gotta ask. Commentator to commentator.

Joe Rogan 46:02 All right.

Jimmy Smith 46:02 What's the, what's the, what's the, the maddest a fighter's ever been at you for what?

Joe Rogan 46:06 Man, I don't know.

Jimmy Smith 46:07 'Cause we all have these stories.

Joe Rogan 46:08 Mmm.

Jimmy Smith 46:08 Not many of them. Mo- usually, I get along with just about everybody, but there are a couple stories.

Joe Rogan 46:11 I get along with just about everybody too. And if there was ever ... Oh, Rampage was mad at once.

Jimmy Smith 46:15 I remember that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:15 'Cause I was, I was saying that he needed to throw more leg kicks or something like that. But it's just 'cause I wanted him to be successful. And when he does, he's ... I just think that guys get a little too knockout heavy sometimes, and I like to see people be more technical and mix it up.

Jimmy Smith 46:27 It's an addiction, man.

Joe Rogan 46:28 And you're never gonna get away from the power that Rampage had and has. He's always gonna have that power. My thought was like, what I would like to see as a person who's a fan, I'd like to see him mix it up more.

Jimmy Smith 46:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:37 You know, and become more technical. He's always gonna have that ridiculous chin. He's always gonna have that unbelievable power. Those, those things are not going away.

Jimmy Smith 46:45 It was the first guy I ever grappled with.

Joe Rogan 46:46 Rampage?

Jimmy Smith 46:47 It was Quentin Rampage Jackson.

Joe Rogan 46:47 That's hilarious.

Jimmy Smith 46:48 He was the first, first guy I ever grappled with.

Joe Rogan 46:50 Really? At a legit studio.

Jimmy Smith 46:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:51 I grappled with him once. We were doing something for some television show, some inside ... That's right, that inside the UFC thing that I used to do like way back in the day. That was like, uh, when Spike first had the UFC, we did some stuff. And he was getting ready to fight Chuck, and we did some stuff together. He, he, like a lot of people didn't know who he was. He came over. We drove around LA in his, uh, monster truck. He had some crazy monster truck. It was like jacked three feet up in the air. He was-

Jimmy Smith 47:17 If you weren't into Pride, you didn't know who he was.

Joe Rogan 47:18 No, nobody knew who he was.

Jimmy Smith 47:19 Not at that point, not at that point, of course.

Joe Rogan 47:21 We ran into one of the Wu-Tang Clan-

Jimmy Smith 47:22 Beat Marvin Eastman before that?

Joe Rogan 47:23 I was with Rampage. We ran into one of the Wu-Tang Clan in a weird section of LA on Hollywood Boulevard. The Wu-Tang-

Jimmy Smith 47:31 That's one of those.

Joe Rogan 47:31 ... dude was coming out of a check cashing place. (coughs) I forget which guy it was. We were having a good fucking time, though. That was before anybody knew who Rampage was.

Jimmy Smith 47:41 He was. I, I misunderstood him, because he was going by this like, once again, like 1999, 2000. I had finished at UCLA where, where I first like got my taste in jiu-jitsu was at UCLA, and then I got... I graduated and I went to Team Punishment. And I get on the mat and Fabiano Wodinha was a coach there at the time.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Fabiano Wodinha.

Jimmy Smith 47:55 Fabiano Wodinha, huh?

Joe Rogan 47:56 One of the best arm bars in the day, in the day.

Jimmy Smith 47:58 Dude, unh- Good foot locks too.

Joe Rogan 47:59 Ooh.

Jimmy Smith 47:59 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:00 His arm bar was fire.

Jimmy Smith 48:01 Sick. Especially far side. And so we, um, I got on the mat and I shake hands with this dude. And I said, "Hey, my name's Jimmy." And he goes, "I'm Rampage." And I thought like I misunderstood him. I was like, he can't s- You know, I was like, is it Randall or something and I just misunderstood him. And all I knew is I knew an arm bar and a foot lock at the time. And he was so big, I was like, I'm just gonna foot lock him. And, and I, I went for all these straight foot locks. I'm like, and I got him, I got him, I got him. And then I got an arm bar on him and he lifted me up to the ceiling with one arm and just Aronad my ass. Just went boom, dropped right on me. And Fabiano comes running over mad, like, "Oh, you're not supposed to do that." And he starts screaming at him, and he walks off. Rampage turns to me and goes, "Yeah, we're cool, right?" And I said, "Yeah, we're fine, man. I'm a wrestler. It's, you know, no big deal. I've been slammed before." And that was it. That's how I met, I met Quinton, man, back then.

Narrator 48:50 That was a roller coaster.

Joe Rogan 48:50 It was fighting King of the Cage, like his second fight is for-

Jimmy Smith 48:52 I was there-... right after his first fight or before his first fight. Like, literally he was just getting started. Like, living in his car stuff. And now he's come very, very far. He's one of those guys I'm really glad that -

Joe Rogan 49:01 Didn't he fight, like, Marvin Eastman in, like, one of his first fights?

Jimmy Smith 49:03 That was his- his- I believe that was his first fight. His first fight at King of the Cage-

Joe Rogan 49:07 Right, right.

Jimmy Smith 49:07 ... in California was Marvin Eastman. I think he fought once in Tennessee or something. But yeah, his first fight was Marvin Eastman, he lost by decision.

Joe Rogan 49:13 Whew, man.

Jimmy Smith 49:15 And then he just started beating guys up. He started...

Joe Rogan 49:17 What a long history this sport has now when you think about it. It's interesting because it's all just sort of accumulated, like the different styles and the different abilities.

Jimmy Smith 49:26 Do you remember how tough, especially in California in the early 2000s, the local scene was a motherfucker?

Joe Rogan 49:32 Oh yeah, man.

Jimmy Smith 49:32 Dude, 'cause the UFC ... Like, MMA was big. It was ... Not big, but it was pop ... It was cool. It was like, it was popular, it was fun, and there weren't many big shows. So guys had to fight on the local level for a while to get enough fights to get there. And also, once again, the contracts weren't that restrictive. So in between UFC fights, because they didn't have that many, guys could go down to King of the Cage and make some money. So you'd see some really talented guys at King of the Cage. You'd see some really good dudes.

Joe Rogan 49:58 And the King of the Cage was always weird, uh-

Jimmy Smith 49:59 Gladiator challenge and...

Joe Rogan 50:00 ... Indian shows. Indian casinos.

Jimmy Smith 50:01 Saboba Casino, man.

Joe Rogan 50:02 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 50:02 That's where I fought at first time.

Joe Rogan 50:03 (coughs)

Jimmy Smith 50:03 I fought like four of my fights up there.

Joe Rogan 50:05 There was a bunch of casinos that would have it.

Jimmy Smith 50:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:07 And it all had to be Native American reservations-

Jimmy Smith 50:09 Yep.

Joe Rogan 50:09 ... because they had their own rules.

Jimmy Smith 50:11 Yeah, it was illegal.

Joe Rogan 50:11 So they can't -

Jimmy Smith 50:12 Weighed in on a bathroom scale.

Joe Rogan 50:13 Wow.

Jimmy Smith 50:13 Like literally, like on a bathroom scale-

Joe Rogan 50:15 Right.

Jimmy Smith 50:15 ... in the lobby of the hotel. And Ted would look down and go, "Yeah, you're good." You know, whatever.

Joe Rogan 50:19 Wow.

Jimmy Smith 50:19 The doctor's test was like, "Can you find your nose?"

Joe Rogan 50:21 Vroom.

Jimmy Smith 50:22 "Can you stand on one foot? Can you stand on the other foot? Okay, get in there." It was literally that was it. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 50:26 It's-

Jimmy Smith 50:27 Wild West, man.

Joe Rogan 50:28 Do you remember when the King of the Cage, it got rainy and they decided to let everybody fight anyway?

Jimmy Smith 50:31 Wet 'n Wild, bro.

Joe Rogan 50:33 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 50:33 Wet 'n Wild.

Joe Rogan 50:35 That was crazy.

Jimmy Smith 50:36 Yves Edwards fought on that card against Jeremy Williams.

Narrator 50:38 Did he really?

Jimmy Smith 50:38 I believe so. From, uh, Team NG, Team Next Generation. Remember him?

Narrator 50:41 Yeah, I do.

Jimmy Smith 50:42 Yeah.

Narrator 50:42 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 50:43 That was a solid team. Chris Brennan's camp, man, back then.

Narrator 50:45 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 50:45 Solid dudes, man.

Joe Rogan 50:46 Yeah, there was the two Jeremy Williams, right? There was the one who went to fun, tough-

Jimmy Smith 50:50 The boxer and then ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:50 ... who wound up getting locked up.

Jimmy Smith 50:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:51 And then there was Jeremy, the original one, who took his own life.

Jimmy Smith 50:54 Yeah. Took his own life, yeah.

Narrator 50:56 (coughs)

Jimmy Smith 50:56 I-

Joe Rogan 50:56 Very sad story. He was a really interesting guy.

Jimmy Smith 50:59 Uh, I think-

Joe Rogan 50:59 Super talented too.

Jimmy Smith 51:00 I fought in a grappling match against Jerry at No Limits. Remember No Limits?

Joe Rogan 51:04 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 51:05 Yeah. Or, no we were calling it, obviously. But anyway, so I got a call from the guy who ran No Limits. And he called me and he said, "Hey, I have a grappling tournament coming up. W- would you like to fight?" Because I was mmn- you know, I was doing grappling tournaments at the time. I said, "Yeah, sure. No problem, man." And he goes, "You're gonna have a super fight against Jeremy Williams." And I went, "Fuck." Because I had seen Jeremy Williams at the- you know, he was-

Joe Rogan 51:22 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 51:22 ... locally in California he was known. And we got in this ring or whatever and we fought. And, um, I caught him in a toe hold.

Joe Rogan 51:28 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 51:29 And I- and I- and he tapped and- and I went back into the locker room and he's bawling, like, bawling, bawling, bawling, bawling. But like, devastated. And I remember thinking at the time, that's- that's we- Like, it wasn't a grappling tournament and he got caught.

Joe Rogan 51:47 Right.

Jimmy Smith 51:47 I mean, it happens. And like his whole team was around him like- like- like a funeral or something. And I- and I went up to him and I was like, "Man, I've always been a huge fan," which is true. I mean, I ... On the local level, especially at that time, he was like here. He was- he was a level above most guys. And I told him, "Man, I'm a huge fan and it's just an honor to fight you." And he said, "Thank you," and he hugged me. But I remember thinking at the time, "Something's going on." Like, he just seemed so emotional, so devastated.

Joe Rogan 52:10 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 52:10 I didn't know what was going on in his life at the time. And- and, uh, when I went to Japan for Fight Quest, I- I read that he had- he had taken his own life. And I ... That- that was tough, man.

Joe Rogan 52:19 (exhales)

Jimmy Smith 52:19 That was tough. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:20 Woof.

Jimmy Smith 52:21 Yeah. It's not all sunshine and rainbows in MMA.

Joe Rogan 52:24 Well, it certainly isn't ...

Jimmy Smith 52:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:25 Well, it isn't in any combat sport, right?

Jimmy Smith 52:27 Yeah, it's tough.

Joe Rogan 52:27 It's like what ... And it's hard to tell what is, what's happening. Is it what leads you to it in the first place, is you have this burning desire to get back at people and your emotions are in turmoil? And ever- obviously everybody's different.

Jimmy Smith 52:38 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 52:39 That's one of the things about Rory that's so unique. Like, people have this idea of him. And then, uh, he did my podcast.

Jimmy Smith 52:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:45 And one of the things that people said like, "Oh, he's fucking normal." Like, "He's like a regular guy."

Jimmy Smith 52:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:50 "He just, when he's fighting, he's really serious." Yeah, but when you talk ... Everybody like thought he was this complete, like, total silent psycho.

Jimmy Smith 52:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:58 But then he's doing the podcast. He's joking around. He's self-deprecating. He's super honest about, like, when- what happens to him when he trains too much, you know, he breaks down.

Jimmy Smith 53:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:07 And he can't do it anymore, and now he's- he's like scheduled his training differently. He's just a fucking ... He's not like on some, "Superman, I can't be stopped."

Jimmy Smith 53:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:13 "I'm never tired. I'll fucking keep pushing." There was none of that.

Jimmy Smith 53:16 Yeah, it's ... People always ask me about Chael.

Joe Rogan 53:19 Uh-huh.

Jimmy Smith 53:19 Like, "What's that dude?" He's a- he's a totally normal guy in real life.

Joe Rogan 53:22 He's funny.

Jimmy Smith 53:22 Yeah, he's funny, he's engaging, self-deprecating too.

Joe Rogan 53:25 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 53:26 You know? I talked to him after the Tito fight. I was like ... You know, he comes up to us and we're ... You know, we were calling a fight after he'd already fought Tito and we're calling this fight. And I go, "How you doing?" He goes, "Well, my confidence is shot. Uh ..." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:36 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 53:36 "Beyond that I'm- I'm great. You know, I've done crying. I was in the bathroom just bawling and uh-"

Joe Rogan 53:40 Oh.

Jimmy Smith 53:40 Now I'm gonna ... He's a funny dude. He's really a funny guy.

Joe Rogan 53:42 When he choked out Shogun he said something to the effect of, uh, he- he goes, uh, he goes, "If you think I'm gonna sit here and listen to a middle-aged comedian tell me what to do-"

Jimmy Smith 53:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:52 "... I just choked out a world champion." Something along those lines.

Jimmy Smith 53:55 Yeah, you just wait for ... You just ... Whatever ... Like, when I interview him ... And- and by the way for- for people listening. I don't know how it is for you. Interviews are, if not the hardest part of our job, the m- the x-factors in interviews. Because everybody asks me, and this is kind of like a behind the scenes thing.

Joe Rogan 54:11 Right.

Jimmy Smith 54:11 People don't know. Whether or not we do an interview is a production call, 100%. We don't decide.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Right.

Jimmy Smith 54:16 I don't decide personally whether or not somebody gets an interview. W- when I was doing Bellator, it ... We have commercials. So they have a commercial inventory, we gotta get to them. If fights end quickly, we get interviews. If they don't, we don't. It doesn't matter who the fighter is or what they're doing. But it's not my call.

Joe Rogan 54:30 Right.

Jimmy Smith 54:30 Um, they're geeked up on adrenaline. They're like all over the place. The producers in my ear going-

Joe Rogan 54:37 (coughs)

Jimmy Smith 54:37 ... you know, "You have one or two questions," however many I ... how many I have time for. They can go off crazy. Like you just don't know. It's the most x-factor part of our job because it's off the format. You're up there holding the mic and they could...... say whatever that you have no idea what they're saying, what they're doing. You try to keep them in one place.

Joe Rogan 54:52 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 54:53 People don't realize that. People go, "Oh, you guys are always touching the fighter." If they start moving, all the cameras move, guys, and it ruins the shot. We're trying to keep them in one place.

Joe Rogan 55:01 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 55:01 When I put my hand on a guy, what I'm trying to do, or gal, whatever, I'm trying to keep them in one place so the two cameras get a shot of them 'cause one's on their face.

Joe Rogan 55:07 And they- they kind of sense it too.

Jimmy Smith 55:08 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:08 It- it works. It really works.

Jimmy Smith 55:10 But when they have adrenaline, they'll start spinning around.

Joe Rogan 55:12 Sure.

Jimmy Smith 55:12 Or they're trying to address the crowd and they start turning around. You're trying to keep them in one spot. I had one guy, one of the weirdest tweets I've ever gotten was... Sometimes you'll catch me on camera, pointing at the ground.

Joe Rogan 55:22 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 55:22 And what I'm saying is, "Stand right here. Come to me and stand right..." So, that's where the camera shot is. You know? I'm not-

Joe Rogan 55:29 Right. Right.

Jimmy Smith 55:29 And so anywa- every now and then you'll catch me doing that. And what I'm doing is, yeah, stand right here. 'Cause my director used to always get mad at me 'cause I would go to the fighter and it would like ruin the shot.

Joe Rogan 55:35 Right. Right.

Jimmy Smith 55:36 So he wants them to come to them so it's center. (laughs) This weirdo tweet me, he goes, "It is so racist the way you point to your shoes when it's a-"

Joe Rogan 55:44 (laughs) What?

Jimmy Smith 55:45 I swear to God, he said, uh, "Like you point to your shoes when it's a Black fighter." And the last card hadn't had any Black fighters.

Joe Rogan 55:52 Dude, you got trolled.

Jimmy Smith 55:53 It was cr- I was-

Joe Rogan 55:54 You got trolled, bro.

Jimmy Smith 55:55 ... crying laughing.

Joe Rogan 55:56 That's some kid from 4Chan that's fucking with you.

Jimmy Smith 55:57 Yeah, dude. It was hell. But like how demeaning th- and you point to your shoes when you're... I was like, what do I do? Like explain to you how a two shot works? It is hilarious. Or people get mad at me 'cause, "Why didn't that fighter get an interview?" And I'm like, it- it's literally a timing thing.

Joe Rogan 56:10 Yeah, you can't-

Jimmy Smith 56:10 It has nothing to do with me.

Joe Rogan 56:11 You can't read that stuff.

Jimmy Smith 56:12 Oh, you can't at all.

Joe Rogan 56:13 You can't.

Jimmy Smith 56:13 I'll read it and then that's about it.

Joe Rogan 56:14 Mm-hmm.

Jimmy Smith 56:14 I don't engage with anybody. I have- I got better shit to do with my time.

Joe Rogan 56:17 But you can't get upset at people that don't understand the format.

Jimmy Smith 56:19 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 56:20 You're upset. You're like- you're like legitimately upset. "That's not what I was doing. It's not the fucking shoes."

Jimmy Smith 56:24 Yeah. They- they really get... They really, really lose it over shit, man. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 56:27 But it's a small percentage, you know?

Jimmy Smith 56:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:28 There's a million people watching and you get one shitty tweet. You really gotta think about the numbers.

Jimmy Smith 56:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:33 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 56:33 Well the thing to me too is like when I- when I left Bellator, when it came out, whatever it was, the 26th, the response like kinda blew me away. I mean, I was hearing from people that I didn't even know they knew who I was. Just, you know, everybody was just... It was a huge deal. I couldn't believe it. You know, I didn't expect all the support I got. And I really appreciate anybody listening, I really, really appreciated it. When something like that happens you just... It's the first time I heard from you was when I left Bell for the first time.

Joe Rogan 56:56 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 56:56 You know, when- when Bjorn was, you know, being Bjorn and I left.

Joe Rogan 56:59 (laughs)

Jimmy Smith 56:59 And you wrote me, "Man, keep your head up. It's gonna be great." And I was like, "I didn't know you knew who I was."

Joe Rogan 57:02 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 57:03 You don't know. You're kind of cut off, you have no idea. But the support you get when you really need it, it's really amazing from MMA fans, personally.

Joe Rogan 57:07 Well, if you're a fan of the sport and you enjoy watching it, you want a commentator who appreciates it and knows what he's talking about and is- is entertaining. Like you take good paths, you know, when you describe things.

Jimmy Smith 57:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:19 And like-

Jimmy Smith 57:19 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 57:20 ... you criticize referees if they make calls. You do the right thing, you know, you speak up for the people that are watching.

Jimmy Smith 57:25 That's, you know, that's something that's so hard.

Joe Rogan 57:27 You have to do it.

Jimmy Smith 57:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:29 Even if you love the referee.

Jimmy Smith 57:30 Y- even if you love the referee. But a lot of things are like... (laughs) One time... And, uh, I love this. And Big John, if you're listening, I would love to hear an explanation of this, 'cause this is one of the funniest moments I've ever had commentating, was, it was Marlon Sandro versus Frodo Khasbulatov at 145 in Bellator. And I forget who got a- a cup shot, but somebody got a cup shot. Boom, kick- kick to the nuts. And Big John walks up to him and goes... And w- he was miced, so I could hear it. He goes, "That wasn't a bad shot, I'm only giving you two minutes."

Joe Rogan 58:01 Oh, my God.

Jimmy Smith 58:01 And I went... I'm on air going, "I- I don't think he can do that. It's either five minutes or he didn't get hit and he has to keep fighting. There's no-"

Joe Rogan 58:10 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 58:10 But he went up to him and goes, "That wasn't bad. I'm only giving you two minutes." And I went... So I'm on... Like I have to explain that to an audience and go, "Uh, y- as far as I know, he can't do that. It's either five or it's nothing." When- when a referee does something like that, you- you- you... I'm trying to explain to the audience what he might be thinking. Like, "That didn't look bad to me." But here's what he's thinking.

Joe Rogan 58:29 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 58:29 And then fighters... And then a lot of people think you're defending the referee. No, I'm trying to think about what could possibly make him do that. You have to ride that line-

Joe Rogan 58:36 Yeah.

Jimmy Smith 58:36 ... and go, "Ah, this is what he's thinking. I disagree about that, but that's gotta be what he's thinking."

Joe Rogan 58:42 Well, you can also... I bring in Ratner.

Jimmy Smith 58:43 "It's so arbitrary."

Joe Rogan 58:43 The good thing about the UFC is you bring in Mark Ratner-

Jimmy Smith 58:45 That's pretty awesome.

Joe Rogan 58:46 And Mark Ratner goes over the- the actual law and, or the