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JRE MMA Show #80 with Evander Holyfield

Joe sits down with former boxer Evander Holyfield, who was the undisputed champion at cruiserweight in the late 1980s and at heavyweight in the early 1990s, and remains the only boxer in history to win the undisputed championship in two weight classes.

Joe RoganhostEvander Holyfieldguest
Oct 8, 20191h 11mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 15:00

    Boom, and we're live.…

    1. JR

      Boom, and we're live. What's up, champ? How are you?

    2. EH

      I'm great. Now how you doing?

    3. JR

      I'm great, man. It's a pleasure to meet you.

    4. EH

      All right.

    5. JR

      I've been a fan forever.

    6. EH

      Oh, good.

    7. JR

      (laughs) I've seen every single fight you've ever had. So for me, it's a, it's an honor to have you in here, man, as a giant boxing fan. All the way back to Dwight Qawi, saw you fight in the Olympics, saw everything.

    8. EH

      Yeah, you did.

    9. JR

      Everything, man.

    10. EH

      You did.

    11. JR

      Yeah, for real. And, uh, I understand you, you're gonna do an exhibition now.

    12. EH

      Well, yeah, I'm preparing for one, um, you know, uh, you know, me going o- going over to, uh, Japan and being able to go over there and see, uh, the, the typhoon, the whatever that, uh-

    13. JR

      Tsunami?

    14. EH

      ... tsunami.

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. EH

      And the point it's sending, so then I'm, uh, going over there and, and helping people. And I figured why not do an exhibition?

    17. JR

      Right. So it's like a benefit for the tsunami victims?

    18. EH

      Yes.

    19. JR

      Um, you look great. You're in great shape still.

    20. EH

      Well, thank you.

    21. JR

      You don't, you never got out of shape.

    22. EH

      Well, you, art of the game.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. EH

      It's, uh, easy to maintain than rebuild.

    25. JR

      Easier to maintain than rebuild, yeah. But, uh, now at your age, like, what, when was the last time you had a fight? It was, like, 2011, is that what it was?

    26. EH

      2000, yeah, 2011.

    27. JR

      So it's been, like, eight years, which is, you were thinking of competing, like, deep into your 50s, though.

    28. EH

      Well, yeah, you, the thing is, is that I'm always trying to stay in shape. But, uh, really didn't wanna get hit again-

    29. JR

      Right, right, right.

    30. EH

      ... like that, but, and that's, but exhibition, I, I, I could do an exhibition.

  2. 15:00 – 30:00

    Yeah, there's no doubt…

    1. EH

      I, I... Well, you know, you have to be a little of that to be in this anyway.

    2. JR

      Yeah, there's no doubt about that, right?

    3. EH

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      So when you first did fight Mike Tyson, was that like something you had always knew was gonna happen once he got out of jail?

    5. EH

      Well, it was like, it was like this, my mama used to tell me, she said, "Now, let me tell you something about good fighters, you can't wish them away, they ain't never going nowhere, you got to face it." And so you know what... And, you know, and everybody in everything that I'd done, everybody will always remind me, "You didn't beat Mike Tyson though."

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. EH

      And I'm like, "Well, you, you, you're right." And I said, "But it's not like it was my fault."

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. EH

      And I just, I see every time I got ready to fight him, something happened. I said, "But it wasn't my fault." "Well, you, you, you ain't really the champ till you beat him." I, it was amazing that he was so popular, I'm talking especially in my house, I was... You know-

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. EH

      ... when people get mad at me, they tell me, "Ah, I can't wait till you fight Mike Tyson." (laughs)

    12. JR

      That's crazy.

    13. EH

      And so the thing is, is that, you know, you know, he was that person that I watched every one of his fight and, and I realized you can't make that min- that many mistake with Mike.

    14. JR

      Right. When you finally did beat him, do you think... When you did fight him and did beat him, do you think that that raised your, y- your celebrity and your notoriety to a different level?

    15. EH

      Not, not really.

    16. JR

      No?

    17. EH

      I think that it, it let people know that you ain't gotta, you ain't gotta be considered a bad person to be good in the ring.

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. EH

      I'm saying because when... You know, my own thing, I could box and, but everybody thought that because I didn't curse a lot or I don't get in trouble that you, y- you ain't mean enough to be the mean guy.

    20. JR

      Right.

    21. EH

      And more so than... I mean, I'm a skillful fighter and I took care of my body and I did everything right. I'm t- you know, I, uh, you know, in, in general, I, I fought a lot of guys who were a lot bigger and, and... But it, it's an art to the game, it's really an art, it's really an art. It is, it's not just one thing you just, you hit harder, because you got to be able to take some to give some.

    22. JR

      Right. Well, you always could take it.

    23. EH

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      That was a big part of your, your career, when you had an iron chin. I mean, Riddick Bowe was a giant man and he hit you with some bombs and those wars that you guys had, you were able to take some incredible punches.

    25. EH

      Well, you know, the art with me, I knew that I could take it, but can you take it? And so the whole big thing is, the whole big thing, my whole thing, my whole, my whole big thing with Mike is that what Mike had told somebody say, "Everybody got a plan till they get hit." And, and he was right, because, you know, if, if you hitting it... If this guy worry about you hitting him and he, and he ain't worried about getting hit, so he ain't got to worry about it.

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. EH

      But I knew if you hit me, I was going to hit you back.

    28. JR

      And so that was part of the plan was to-

    29. EH

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      ... let him know that early?

  3. 30:00 – 45:00

    (laughs) …

    1. EH

      was shocked.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. EH

      So they were shocked, wondering why we wasn't fighting.

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. EH

      And I didn't ... I didn't-

    6. JR

      It was just you two in the elevator? Other people as well?

    7. EH

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it.

    8. JR

      Just you two in the elevator?

    9. EH

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Wow.

    11. EH

      And so, and so at the shocking part and they said, "Man, man, we thought they were gonna be fighting." And I told the guy, I said, "Man," I said, "You know how much money I got paid in that fight, and how much money can you think we gonna fight for free?" (laughs)

    12. JR

      (laughs) Was there ever a talk about a third fight?

    13. EH

      With the ... Yeah, I, I had people mention it. You know, they, they'd mention it.

    14. JR

      Right.

    15. EH

      And, but, you know, I'm ... The thing is, is that they wanted to give a lot of money and they, they were asking me to try to ... And then my own thing is that-I, I kinda feel like it's kinda bully for you to ask somebody to fight, to fight you again when you know you gonna win again.

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. EH

      I'm s- you know, so the whole big thing is, you know, I, I just didn't, I didn't think that if Mike, if Mike wanted to do it, I would have done it, but I wasn't gonna go a ask.

    18. JR

      Right.

    19. EH

      I think, I think you're being a bully when you know you're better than somebody and you wanna, you wanna play them in something that you know you gonna beat 'em.

    20. JR

      Right, right, right.

    21. EH

      Right? You know, it, it's a challenge to somebody to challenge you to think that I can come back and, and beat you. But, you know, just to just, you know, you feel that you better, and so I think it'd be wrong for me not ask it.

    22. JR

      Right. No, that's, that's amazing. I mean, but that just shows what kind of a person you are, like, uh, it shows what kind of character you have and that sorta defines your career, that you are the guy that did always seek the big challenges.

    23. EH

      Yeah, I, and I, you know, I- I, uh, winning is, you know, uh, I, you know, the nickname Real Deal, I was like ... And people ask me, "How you get that name, Real Deal?" I says, you know, "I j- I thank God for all the ... anything that great, it come from God at all given time." You know, I'm, you know, I had a mom who, who had a sixth grade education, but she raised me. She raised a four-time heavyweight champ of the world. She stayed on me all the time and, and my brothers and sisters said, "Mom, you're gonna make a sister out of him. You don't let him go out. You don't let him do nothing." My mama said, "He gonna be all right. You just wait and see." And, and when I think about she never did give in to what nobody said about, about me and I became who I am and I'm just so ... So I'm just so thankful that ... And, and the Bible said, "All good thing come from God." Anything that is good for you, it came from God.

    24. JR

      It sounds like you rely on your mom or you relied on your mom a lot for wisdom.

    25. EH

      Well, e- 'cause that's all I had. That's all I had because, you know, my, my brothers and sisters and stuff, all of 'em, I don't think a- all of 'em liked me a lot. They maybe liked me a little bit. (laughs)

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. EH

      But my, my ma- my, my mama, I know my mama loved me. They ain't like me a little bit.

    28. JR

      Yeah, but it's, it's amazing to hear that your mother was right at every stop, at every step.

    29. EH

      Right.

    30. JR

      You know, all of her advice all paid out. I mean, she knew there was something special about you.

  4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

    Right. …

    1. EH

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. EH

      I said, "I'm on the top."

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. EH

      Why not? I'm the best there'd ever been. I broke Ali's record. Why don't just sit, rest, and be thankful? And, uh, I chose to as 'cause the fact of the matter, records are meant to be broken. Somebody gonna break it eventually.

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. EH

      And long as boxing continue to go, 'cause you looking at, you looking for, uh, to improve, the game to improve.

    8. JR

      That's a, a great attitude that I wish more boxers would have 'cause it's, for fighters, many times the highs of being a champion and winning big championship fights on television under the bright lights, those highs are so high that after they get off and they retire, they just miss it. They miss it so bad. And we've seen everybody, all the greats, from Larry Holmes to Sugar Ray Leonard, uh, uh, all the greats come back. Except Hagler.

    9. EH

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Hagler never came back. And Andre Ward says he's not gonna come back either. But Hagler to me was one of the most impressive 'cause he just, after that Sugar Ray Leonard fight, he went, (claps) "We're good. I'm done. That's it."

    11. EH

      Well, I'm talkin' about, I'm talkin', you know, I'm there, that, uh, it was amazing-

    12. JR

      Amazing.

    13. EH

      ... because the fact, the fa- the fact is, you know, y- you're cussing to people.

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. EH

      You know, you don't have to talk when you're a good fighter. You know that?

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. EH

      'Cause everybody who asked me said, "Why you ain't never said nothing?" I said, "'Cause I ain't have to say nothing. When people look at it, they start talking about how good I am."

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. EH

      "So I don't have to say nothing."

    20. JR

      Well, that was a big part of you, was your humility but confidence. You were always a humble man, but always a very confident man. And as a fighter, that's a very admirable quality. Like, you didn't have a lot of ha- haters or detractors. When you were the champ, people just appreciated who you were as a man.

    21. EH

      Yeah, yeah, but it, uh, went and, uh, all that goes, uh, credit my mom. My mom used to tell me, when she said, "Zip the lip up," I said, "I'm up now."

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. EH

      "You're talking a little too much." (laughs)

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. EH

      "Talking with," but, "zip it up."

    26. JR

      Yeah, you were never a guy that bragged. You know, when you see these guys like Floyd Mayweather that he gets so much attention, obviously he's an incredible boxer, maybe one of the best boxers, if not the best of all time, but, uh, just always talks crazy amounts of shit. But that has also got him a crazy amount of money and a crazy amount of attention. But you never went that route.

    27. EH

      Well, and, uh, and that because the fact is it wasn't about money, and I'm telling you, you got the love that you have and that you can account to say, uh, anytime somebody asks me something, uh, and not just me, yeah, if my mama, I can always account to these people that this boys club, like, you know. So, uh, w- I tell people, I say, "Now, I started going to the boys club at the age of six years old." I say, "Now," I said, I said, "I didn't choose my neighborhood that I chose to live in." I said, "But," I said, "But everybody in that neighborhood told me, 'You ain't gonna be nothing.'" I'm talking about, I'm talking about as a kid. You growing up and you be telling you ain't gonna be nothing. "You ain't gonna be nothing." And so going to that boys club, the boys club started talking about goals. What do you wanna be? I'm talking, you know... Uh, as that kid, I can't lie and say... They always asking me, "What do you wanna be?" Say, yeah, you know, all I just know, I wanna be great. They say, "In what?" So if you don't do nothing, you got to find out what you wanna be great in it. So you, you, you, they let you play basketball, they let you play baseball, all these different things every day. You, you know, with age groups, six, seven, eight years old where you could do all these different things, wood shop, you know. They wouldn't let you do what you wanna do. You had to, you know, ev- uh, you had to, you with a group, a group of people, you had to different, at different hours, different time you go to these different things to make sure that you're learning to see all the different things that you could be.... but if, you know, if you never was in, in class and they have rules to tell you can just do what you wanna do, you may not ever become nothing. I became who I am 'cause I went through that boys club and they, they wanted me to learn all these different things. You find out you ain't gonna be great in everything, but at least you know when to be quiet, when to talk, when not to, because you're not gonna be the greatest one in all the things that you do.

    28. JR

      Do you have any regrets when you look back on your, your championship career?

    29. EH

      Not, not at all.

    30. JR

      Nothing?

  5. 1:00:00 – 1:11:05

    20 years old. …

    1. EH

      time, it was amazing. Tyson did this thing at 20 years old."

    2. JR

      20 years old.

    3. EH

      And I said, and I said, uh, 'cause I had a lotta people, they would talk about it and say, "Oh, you know what? You know, you were just a, you were just a great ..." I said, "But I had ..." I said, "Tyson was 20." I said, "Ain't no telling what I would've been if I would've been something at 20."

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. EH

      I said, you know, I said, I said, "You're talking about a kid."

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. EH

      I said, I said, "I became heavyweight champion of the world at 28 years old." And everybody said, "Well, you, you act so different." Hell, 28, you know, 28-year-olds, you're gonna, you're gonna see some different-"

    8. JR

      A lot more maturity.

    9. EH

      Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    10. JR

      It's a different person. Yeah.

    11. EH

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      Two ... Being 20 and winning the heavyweight championship of the world, I don't know who could do that and not go crazy.

    13. EH

      Well, because the thing is, uh, he, he was the most photographed person at that time.

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. EH

      Every time you look up, you see Mike on the ... (laughs)

    16. JR

      Yep.

    17. EH

      You see Mike on the ... I'm sitting here just, and did a lot of incredible stuff too.

    18. JR

      He certainly did. Um, wh- what do you think about today's era of boxing? S- p- particularly the heavyweight division. I mean, it's, it's real exciting right now.

    19. EH

      I think it's coming back.

    20. JR

      Yes.

    21. EH

      I think coming back, you know, Ruiz don't sn-

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. EH

      ... sneak, sneak through the picture and then ... And, and I like that because here's a guy you look at and you may think he can't fight.

    24. JR

      Right.

    25. EH

      Fight him. (laughs) Then-

    26. JR

      He can fight.

    27. EH

      Then, yeah. Then-

    28. JR

      Whoo. That Andy Ruiz can throw some combinations.

    29. EH

      Oh, yeah, sure. I'm, uh, and I was-... I was telling a friend of mines, I was telling a friend of mine, I said, "Now," I said, "They picked the wrong guy."

    30. JR

      Hmm.

Episode duration: 1:11:05

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