EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,101 words- 0:00 – 4:37
Wallet phone cases, man purses, and the courage to wear a fanny pack
- JRJoe Rogan
3, 2, 1, bo- You can tell a lot about a man whether or not he's one of those dudes that has one of them-
- RERashad Evans
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... wallet phone cases.
- RERashad Evans
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Rashad Evans, you're a wallet phone case guy.
- RERashad Evans
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You, you pack it all into one package.
- RERashad Evans
You know what? I wasn't always a wallet phone case guy. It's kinda something that just, you know, I kind of evolved into. I was one that was carrying around the, the, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Man purse?
- RERashad Evans
... the man purse for a while.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RERashad Evans
And, and after a while I kinda transitioned to just the, the, the wallet case.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a lot of work, though. Look how thick that sucker is.
- RERashad Evans
It's, it's like a Costanza now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at that thing.
- RERashad Evans
It, it, it, it ... I know. And there's the thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
That thing's giant.
- RERashad Evans
Every single time I clean it out, I tell myself I'm not gonna put any more cards in there except for the ones I need. But, it just attracts the cards.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's a problem. I have one of those Ridge wallets. You know what those are?
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Those are the shit because you can't really get much in there. I get, like, a credit card or two and my license, and that's it.
- RERashad Evans
See, that's- see, that's what I need. I need to have that discipline-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RERashad Evans
... where there's nothing else to carry but what I have to carry.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's got a little money clip on it, so I'll s- sh- shove a couple bills in there, and that's it.
- RERashad Evans
That's it. See, that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
I go out like that.
- RERashad Evans
That's what I need. I got it.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what you need, front pocket.
- RERashad Evans
Uh-huh.
- 4:37 – 6:21
Spirulina, going fully vegan, and how diet shifts mood and mindset
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, keep it together. Keep it together. And then you also have this crazy green drink that you were telling me about.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this right here is, um, spirulina. Uh, ever since I changed my diet up, I need to have a couple of these every single day. And it, uh, makes me feel good, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah?
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, I don't, I don't eat meat anymore, so I know you're a big meat eater, so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, do you eat fish or any of that?
- RERashad Evans
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Nothing?
- RERashad Evans
Nothing.
- JRJoe Rogan
All vegan?
- RERashad Evans
All vegan.
- JRJoe Rogan
When did you become vegan?
- RERashad Evans
Uh, probably about ... Oh, man, I wanna say probably about almost two years now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, almost two years now.
- JRJoe Rogan
You like it?
- RERashad Evans
Love it. Love it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RERashad Evans
It's changed my life, man. It's been, it's been one of the things I can honestly say that has just revolutionized my, my complete everything. It's, it's, it, it's, it's been everything that, that, um ... Lately, that has, you know, changed me from a mental standpoint, physical standpoint, and even a spiritual standpoint.
- JRJoe Rogan
I definitely think it changes the mind, because this all meat diet that I've been on, that changes your mind the other way.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, you get aggressive?
- JRJoe Rogan
It makes you more aggressive. Yeah, too much so. Yeah, I, I have to work out extra to keep the, keep the demons at bay.
- RERashad Evans
It's the blood. It's the blood.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is. It's that. It's also, like, if you think about it, wha- i- if your body thinks, "Okay, I have to eat animals all the time," 'cause all this motherfucker eats is animals, right?
- RERashad Evans
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
If your body thinks that, your body's going to-... sort of take on the characteristics of something that's a predator.
- RERashad Evans
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? You would become more... I mean, this is obviously, like, some bullshit bro psychology-
- RERashad Evans
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... because I'm a moron. But, I would say your body is gonna think, "I'm more aggressive. I, I have to chase shit down and kill it."
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- 6:21 – 14:49
Mushroom ceremonies, ego death, and losing the taste for meat
- RERashad Evans
(smacks lips) Um, you know, I kinda... Not right after I retired. It was kinda something that, um, (smacks lips) that kinda just happened. Like, I, uh, ever since I, um, like, 'cause I, I do mushrooms, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-oh.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, yeah. So it was, it was, it was when I did a, uh, like when I had a, a really, really deep trip that just caused me to, (can opening) to, uh, have one of those ego deaths.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
And when I had the ego death, I was, like, in a state where this knowingness was coming to me and it was like, you know, I was like, uh, it was all day. It was, I, I did like a mushroom ceremony.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RERashad Evans
And it was all day, and I was just out in the sun and just, you know, in my own mind. And then, um, I was smelling real bad, and then I smelled myself. Now, you know ever you catch a smell of yourself?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
And I was like, "Oh my God, I stink." And then-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RERashad Evans
... that knowingness said, like, "You stink because you eat dead, rotting flesh." And it said, "If you wanna eat, if you want life, then you eat life." That's what this knowingness said to me. And then I was like, "That's a strange thought to just come into my mind like that."
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RERashad Evans
And then after that, no kidding, like, I just lost my taste for meat. It just k- And I used to eat all kinds of meat. I would eat, I would eat pork, and, and I was, you know, big into pork and big into, like, all kinds of meat, and I was never one of those diet guys at all. But after that happened to me, after I had that experience, it was just like one of those things that, um, (smacks lips) that I just couldn't help but go into. Like, I just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RERashad Evans
... lost the taste for meat.
- JRJoe Rogan
One trip?
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, I mean, well, it was, well, it was k- It kinda started when I, um, (smacks lips) like, about eight months before that I did the toad.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RERashad Evans
And then the toad was one that, that really was the catalyst for everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a lot of people listening going, "What the fuck is he saying? You did the toad?"
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, yeah. So five MeO DMT-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RERashad Evans
... which is the toad. And the toad was one that was, I guess, the, the catalyst of busting that gate open and then-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a crazy psychedelic.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a very underrated psychedelic.
- RERashad Evans
Oh my God, it, it, that, that will... (exhales) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the, the first really b- I had done mushrooms before, but I did a, a fairly small dose. I mean, fairly small in that I could walk around. I was pretty whacked out, but I could walk around with a couple grams. But the five MeO DMT was the first one where I just ceased to exist. I just stopped, and it made me really aware of ego, really aware of, like, even the way I express myself, the way I would frame w- sentences and say things. I was just ch- I was trying to sound cool-
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... or I was trying to portray something in a way, like, not just trying to portray the information, but trying to impress people, and it made me, like, feel real gross. (laughs)
- 14:49 – 23:57
ACL surgeries, losing explosiveness, and the mental cost of injuries
- RERashad Evans
... of just going deep. And, and it's helped me out so much because, you know, towards the end of my career, like, I just didn't, I didn't finish the way I wanted to, you know. And I felt like, you know, after I came back from my injuries, I just wasn't the same f- fighter anymore. I just was not.
- JRJoe Rogan
Were you not the same physically or was it mentally?
- RERashad Evans
It was physical, but it also, it became mental because it wa- because physically I just didn't feel the same, you know. I didn't feel like I, I ever regained the power back in, in my legs. And for the most part, my legs were everything, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
What were the injuries?
- RERashad Evans
I had two ACL surgeries on my, on my right knee. And that completely just, uh, it, it changed everything for me because, you know, being a smaller, like, heavyweight, all of my power was all in my legs, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RERashad Evans
And whatever I couldn't make up for in the size department up top, I was usually able to make up for with the power in my legs, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that related to the injury that you got when you were at Jackson's and Diego Sanchez crashed into you?
- RERashad Evans
No, that was ... So that was a different injury. So that was, uh, MCL.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- RERashad Evans
But it was on my left knee. So the right knee was the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- RERashad Evans
... one that got injured.
- JRJoe Rogan
That always drove me crazy 'cause I'm like, "Why the fuck is a guy training for-
- RERashad Evans
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... a world title fight, uh, in a regular class w- where everybody knows-
- RERashad Evans
I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
... people collide into people in regular classes all the time, with millions of dollars on the line."
- RERashad Evans
Crazy. I know. But th-
- JRJoe Rogan
And I see that all the time, though, in top gyms.
- RERashad Evans
And, but that ... See that, see that's, that's, that's where the, the training has gone. Like, like before where you, we would train like maniacs. We would train crazy as hell and put ourselves in some crazy situations.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
And you, and you try to put yourself in those situations because you, like, "You know, I did it before, and I've done it so many times, and nothing has happened." But when you start to move up and there's more on the line, then you always have to take every single precaution because you can't afford to take a step back, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RERashad Evans
And, um, for me, once I had my knee injuries though, I just mentally was not the same person. And when I competed, I wasn't the same person. And then it'd affect me because then I'm like, "You know, I'm not the same person."
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you lose the ability to explode with your knees? Did you have meniscus damage as well?
- RERashad Evans
Um, I had meniscus damage.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RERashad Evans
I lost the ability to explode, and I lost, um ... It would get tired. My leg would get tired, you know. And it didn't have the same bounce, the same rhythm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- 23:57 – 28:58
From personal transformation to psychedelic research: Unlimited Sciences & Johns Hopkins
- RERashad Evans
Yeah. It, it's, it's been, it's been one hell of a journey, man. You know, um-You know, uh, I just, uh, I teamed up with some people in Denver, uh, one of my good friends, Del Jolly out in Denver, you know, uh, he's the one who told me about the medicine, about the medicine, the toad medicine and, um, after that, we just kinda continued to always link up and we'd do, you know, a bunch of ceremonies together. We'd do ayahuasca and just, um, just make sure we always had that connection. But it was, uh, through working with him, uh, you know, I, um, I became, you know, part of this group, Unlimited Sciences. And Unlimited Sciences, what we were doing is, um, you know, we- we've been able to, uh... We want to make psilocybin usage because Del Jolly was one of the guys who, who, um, got, who was on the committee who got it approved for Denver, uh, decriminalizing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RERashad Evans
He was one of the guys who, who, who made that possible, so-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you know how it works? So are you allowed to possess a certain amount of psilocybin in Denver? Is that how it works?
- RERashad Evans
Um, I'm not really too sure exactly how it, it all works, uh, with that. But I think that they're still working out the details of, about how it's going to be, what you can possess on, on the, uh, on the legal side. But, um, with Unlimited Sciences, you know, we've, uh, we, we've been able to, um, take the... We wanna take the psilocybin experience where it's one that people can go through for, for healing and help and get consistent, uh, consistent information, consistent data on, you know, the, the full spectrum on how you can use it in the ways it's used. So we've, uh, teamed up, and this has never been done before, we teamed up with John Hopkins University and we're gonna be part of their study and we're gonna do, like the first real-world, real-world study where we go out and, and, uh, you know, take information from people. You know, people from 18 and up who can speak English can sign up for our, um, our study and, you know, what you do is you go and you fill out a questionnaire and everything is, is, um, HIPAA protected so no one has to worry about, you know, getting in trouble for what their, their usage of, um, psilocybin. But, um, you know, John Hopkins is taking all this information and we're, we're collecting it for him and, you know, what we wanna do is we wanna be able to give this back to them so that they can see on which way they wanna direct their clinical research, you know. And what that can do is, you know, with, with the Unlimited Sciences, it, it comes from, uh, this group called R- Realm of Caring and Realm of Caring is out in Denver and Realm of Caring was for, uh, medical refugees during the whole, um... when there was, uh... Medical refugees for, for cannabis who couldn't use it in their state came to Denver where they were able to use it. But when they first came there, there wasn't, there wasn't, you know, any information on how much you're to use because, uh, Heather Jackson and this other girl who started it, her name is Paige, they started the Realm of Caring and it was just them. They were treating their child and their children, they had seizures and epilepsy and stuff like that, so they wanted... They tried everything in the medical field to help them but they couldn't, could not help them with that. So then they went to cannabis and there was only two of them doing this so they didn't really have much information to go back from. So then they would share information amongst each other and then they would ask other people and then through networking, they created this huge community of people with data and then they started to come with more and more data and then they started working with John Hopkins University and made a protocol and everything else. Now the Realm of Caring help thousands of families all over the world just with the information and data they, they've been able to collect.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's awesome. John Hopkins has been involved in psilocybin research for a while, right? They had something that they did on near death patients.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Or pe- people that are close to death and alleviating the, the, the fear of passing.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah. And that's, um, and that, and that's, and that's one thing that they, they've, they're, they're very interested in diving into that, the mind aspect and everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
And I think that the real world study will be good because what it does is it allows, you know, it allows them to put their money and their resources into where people are actually using it and the things that are interesting to the people, you know. So, I mean, it's one thing to have it in a clinic, clinical setting, but it's another thing to do it on your own and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
... be able to get the results from it. So hopefully this study with John Hopkins University, it, um, it definitely changes games and, and puts things on a level where people can get the healing they need from the mushrooms.
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you read any McKenna stuff?
- RERashad Evans
Um, a little bit. I, I, uh, I follow McKenna a bit, you know, uh, I li- I listen to him quite a bit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Fascinating guy. Listen to-
- RERashad Evans
Fascinating guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
He has a weird, very weird voice, right?
- RERashad Evans
We- weird voice, but, I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
But hypnotic almost. Yeah.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah. You, you can't... I, I mean, I list the hours of McKenna and just his understanding and breakdown of, of, uh, of mushrooms is, is crazy.
- 28:58 – 40:16
Terence McKenna, the Stoned Ape Theory, and mushrooms in ancient culture
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I'm friends with his brother and his, his brother is a- another genius, really fascinating character who's also an outspoken psychedelic proponent and, uh, he lives up in, uh, British Columbia now. And he's, uh, he's a big proponent of one of Den- Terence had a, a theory that Dennis subscribes to called, um, the Stoned Ape Theory.
- RERashad Evans
Ah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you know this theory?
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And this is a really controversial theory, but fascinating that they believe that... At least Terence, Terence had this idea that one of the catalysts for human evolution that changed us from, uh, lower primates to human beings, uh, was the consumption of psilocybin and that animals, you know, these, these pre- pre-human, uh, primates would flip over cow patties and experiment by eating grubs and, and bugs and things that they'd find under there and they would also eat the mushrooms that would grow on the cow patties and the doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years is this gigantic-
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... mystery. Like, they have no idea what happened. I mean, it's a...... apparently, according to biologists, it's the biggest mystery in the fossil record, that the human brain doubled. And not just that any organ would double in size over a period of two million years, but that the organ responsible for the theory of evolution in the first place doubled over two million years is really interesting.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it coincides with climate change and coincides with these rainforests ... And this is all Terence's work I'm, I'm repeating. It coincides with these rainforests receding into grasslands and then these ungulates, these cow, cow-like animals that would live on these grasslands and eat the cow and take shits. And then the manure would grow ... Or, uh, the psilocybin rather would grow in the manure and they, they would follow these cows around and then eat their mushrooms that would gl- grow in their manure. And it also coincides with the earliest, earliest civilizations would all worship cattle. Like, uh, Chacal Hill-
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... which is one of the earliest known civilizations. They had these ... It was a real cattle worshiping, uh, sort of a ... I don't, I don't wanna say a cult, but, the, the way their culture would operate, they worshipped cattle. And some could say, "Well that's 'cause they ate them and they used their milk." I'm sure, I'm sure, that had something to do with it, but like the Hindus don't even eat them, they just worship-
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... them. Imagine that? You got a billion people living in a place, everyone's starving and they're not eating the cows. They're not eating the most delicious animal-
- RERashad Evans
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... on the planet. Well it's because they grew mushrooms! And the ancient Hindu scripts like Soma, is one of the, the main sacraments that they would talk about and no one really understood. To this day, they're not exactly sure what Soma is, but it's some sort of a psychedelic sacrament and it probably was a combination of many things, but a big one was most likely psilocybin was a part of that. And that sort of corresponded with their relationship with cows, that they had this, this worship of cattle, th- they wouldn't eat them and the reason is 'cause God came out of their butt.
- RERashad Evans
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
In their eyes, you know, they would make the manure, the mushrooms would grow in the manure and, I mean there's all sorts of mushroom iconography in all of their ancient religious artwork and-
- RERashad Evans
I mean, I think mushrooms have ... I, I, I know mushrooms have played a big part in our society-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RERashad Evans
I mean, and in our civilization and our ancient civilization.
- JRJoe Rogan
For sure.
- RERashad Evans
And I don't think it's been, you know, properly covered the way that, uh, it could be, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RERashad Evans
Um, it, it, it's amazing because the minute you, you eat a mushroom at the right dosage, you feel it. You feel the fact that it's like, oh this is something ancient because there, there's something that happens when, when you go to that place where you, you, you lose the, you lose the self.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
When you lose the self, then there's, there's something that, that happens that's, that's just magical. There really is no way to, to explain it or dress it up with words. It's just, it's just a ma- something magical that happens once you reach that level.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, whenever I have these conversations with people, there's two types of people. There's people like you that have had the experiences that go, "Mm-hmm." And then there's people that have no experience with it at all that look at you like, "Pfft, yeah it's mushrooms." But I feel bad for those people.
- RERashad Evans
I do too. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Because I know how I used to think and I would've dismissed it the same way. I would've said this is the foolish notions of frivolous, spiritual people that are just being ridiculous and they think, "Oh it's all about the mushrooms, man."
- RERashad Evans
Yeah. (laughs)
- 40:16 – 44:53
Ego, consciousness, and fighting after inner peace: does calm kill the killer instinct?
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you still train?
- RERashad Evans
All the time. Yeah, I train all the time.
- JRJoe Rogan
You train all the time?
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you... what, do you feel different like even when you're hitting things?
- RERashad Evans
Yeah. I've, I've... but not, but not in a way like I feel like, "Oh man, I feel bad." I- I don't feel like that. I just feel like, um, I ma-... ever since I was able to- to kind of come back after I, this whole transition happened, I feel like I have a better idea on competing now, like as far as like my mindset for competing i- is better than it was before, just because I don't, um... uh, my ego's not so attached to it as it was, you know. And- and- and I'm able to go out and just give my best in whatever it is, it is, and- and completely just be like, "Oh, it..." you know, it's whatever. And- and it's easy to say now that I'm not competing where it counts for anything. But for me before, even in practice, it felt like something. If I lost in practice, then that, it would stick with me for a couple of days, you know, I'll be, I'll be upset about that. But now I can just go in and just train and, you know, and it doesn't, it doesn't stay with me like it would before.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you feel like though that to be an elite fighter maybe you need that burning desire to the point where mistakes burn, they hurt, and I know a- as a comedian, I mean there's a, there's a, there's a parallel there, like where, when... if I'm really working hard and really concentrating hard, anything I say that is stupid or comes off wrong or I try something that doesn't work, it will fuck with me for days.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just all day long. Even in conversation. I'm having f- fun with some friends and I say something stupid like that, and like it'll sit in my head for-
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'll wake up in the middle of the night to piss going, "Why the fuck did you say that?"
- RERashad Evans
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) It's the worst.
- RERashad Evans
No, you- you do, you do need that a- as an athlete, but at the same time...
- JRJoe Rogan
Particularly as a fighter, right?
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because you- you have t-... I mean it's so... the, the difference between a champion, you know this about... m- more than anybody, between a champion and a good fighter are so close. It's such a...
- RERashad Evans
It's so close.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so close.
- RERashad Evans
It's so close. It is.
- JRJoe Rogan
And sometimes it's that fucking fire, that anger, that fear, that drive inside of you to be elite, to be the best, and sometimes that...... comes with every practice, you have to win, everything you have to do, every fucking training session. You, you have to burn it out. If you don't, you feel like you're less than you could be.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah. I, I, I agree with that. But there's also, it's a other side of that too, where there's that, that, that blissful ignorance. And that blissful ignorance is where you just go out and do something and you do it 100% great all the time-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
... just because you enjoy it, and there's not-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RERashad Evans
... the pressure of, "Oh, I have to do it a certain kind of way." Like, for instance, when, when, um, when Jon Jones was first competing, Jon Jones, he competed so freely because, you know, it was just, like, he wa- it was just in his nature. Like, he was just so creative, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RERashad Evans
... and he fought different because of... You know, he fought from that place of just creativity, that ignorance that, that, that... ignorant bliss. You know, it, he couldn't be beat, he didn't believe he could be beat. And, you know, he would fight that way. And he would do some genius stuff in there just because of that, you know. But then, when you have those experiences where you, you know, you've been caught in a fight or you've, you know, you made some mistakes in there, then you do know better. But then those, those, those thoughts, it actually slows you down a bit too, because you're not fully reacting. You're, you're thinking, uh, a hair-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
... where before it was just kind of, like, a reaction.
- 44:53 – 56:57
Jon Jones vs Dominick Reyes: scoring controversy, judging standards, and what “winning” means
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, what's interesting about that fight is, first of all, it's a great argument for five-round championship fights-
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... because, for the first three rounds, Dominic Reyes was winning.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The question is (clears throat) whether he won the third round. That's the one I believe that's up for grabs. Most people that I've talked to think Jon won the last two clearly, most people. Most people that I've talked to that are experts, most people, few d- disagree, believe that Dominic Reyes won the first three. And the third round is the one that seems to be, you could go, "Well, Dominic scored more, but it was close enough where you could see someone giving it to Jon, particularly since Jon was pressing the action, Jon was pushing forward. Maybe you could give it to Jon." But they thought Dominic won it. But they said, "If there's a disputable round, it is that third round."
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, I agree.
- JRJoe Rogan
But the... One fucking judge gave Jon-
- RERashad Evans
That was crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
... four rounds to one. That's insane.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, that was insane.
- JRJoe Rogan
This is the same judge that when Ab- um-, I believe Ab- lo- Luke Thomas was talking about this, I'm, I'm sorry if I'm wrong 'cause I'm not saying the judge's name because I'm not sure if I'm correct, but I believe it's the same judge that, um, Trevin Giles who fought, uh, James Krause, um... The d- Giles and Krause was an amazing fight. Giles won a, wound up winning the decision, but the first round, Krause had his back for four minutes, and the ref- or the judge gave that round to Giles.
- RERashad Evans
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is insane. I mean-
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... for four minutes, Krause had his back, was, uh, the guy was fighting off chokes. Krause was real close to submitting him couple times during those four minutes. And the judge, the same judge who gave four rounds to Jon Jones, gave that first round to Giles where there was a dude on his back for four-
- RERashad Evans
That's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
... fucking minutes.
- RERashad Evans
That, that, that... Mo- most of the round. And maybe even a fucking more egregious f- fight was, um, uh, Andre Ewell versus, uh, Jonathan Martinez. That fight was fucking crazy. That fight was crazy. That was the most crazy one. Martinez won- Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that fight.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Martinez won that fight. Ewell broke his arm, I think. He, so, I'm not sure if it's a broken arm, but he had a significant injury to his right hand early in the fight, somewhere in between either the first or the second round, not sure. But he really couldn't throw a right hand, and it was kind of hanging, you could kind of see it was hanging. And Martinez put in work. It was an amazing performance by him, and he got fucked over, man, real bad. It was bad decision-making. There was a bunch of bad fights. There was a bunch of bad decisions.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It wasn't just one.
- RERashad Evans
I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
There was, like, four or five on a, a card of, what, 12 fights, 11, 12 fights? I forget how many it was from the or- or- opening prelims. There was bad decisions, just almost like people who don't know what they're seeing.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah. And that, and that, and that's crazy too, especially when we reach the point that we have in mixed martial arts, you know. I think that we've, we- we've turned a corner, and that mean the fact that there's- there's so many, uh, so much out there, so much knowledge out there on the sport and everything else like that. And if you're gonna be judging it, you gotta at least know when somebody is, is winning a round. I mean, you know, there- there's aspects of, of Jon's game that, that was, you know, he'd score some points, you know, he was always moving forward with the action.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
But, um, you know, even when he was moving forward with the action, he wasn't terribly too offensive. He would come with his legs, but, you know, a lot of times, he, he would allow, he would allow, uh, Dominic to kind of be the first one initiating and then moving off. And then sometimes it seemed like he was just kind of chasing him. But, um, you know, I- I think that, uh, it was, it- it was that third round. That third round was that- that hard round to score.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RERashad Evans
But, uh...You know, it's- I, I, I think that Dom had the edge, but if you gonna beat the champ, then you gotta be the champ.
- 56:57 – 1:07:48
Coaching innovation and fighter cultures: Mark Henry’s “code” system and Dagestani work ethic
- RERashad Evans
Yeah, train- training alongside those guys in, um, in Jersey was probably one of the, the best experience of my career. Training with Mark Henry was, was mind-blowing.
- JRJoe Rogan
You were telling me about this. You and I had this long conversation-
- RERashad Evans
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... about that. Tell me what it's like to work with that guy.
- RERashad Evans
Mark Henry is, is a genius, you know? What he does is he breaks down the game like no one ever, uh, uh, ever, ever trained with before. Um, so for every combination that we throw, every punch is all accounted for with a code. And that code is, uh, specific to, to you and, and to what's im- important in your life and the way you value. So he sits there and he talks, talks to you about, you know, your family, whatnot, and then, you know, he'll make these codes up. And these codes will just be like, for a combination, it'd be, uh, say, a jab, cross, hook, you know? Then he'll, he'll say that is, that's Nia. That's my daughter's name. And then he'll make a whole-
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus.
- RERashad Evans
... whole system of codes with just names. And then when you're sparring, he'll call out the name, and you just gotta know what that technique goes to.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RERashad Evans
There's, there's a bunch of different techniques for different colors, for different movement. And, you know, he can have... He just says it, and it's like he's... Like, when... I watch him go at Frankie 'cause Frankie has the system down the best. Fra- it's like he's controlling Frankie like a con- or like a, like a, like a game. And he's just saying-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like an Xbox controller.
- RERashad Evans
... like an Xbox con- Yeah, he's just saying these commands, and Frankie hears him, and then he goes off. And, you know, sometimes like if, if I'm going and I don't see it, he'll say something, I don't see it, I'll like nod it off, and then he'll, he'll say another one. But if he says it, then most of the time I just do it because he sees it and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RERashad Evans
... you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy to have that kind of confidence in another person.
- RERashad Evans
I, it's, it, well, that's the, well, that's, that's the part of the training that, that you learn. And then, you know, uh, you, you kind of... The good side to that is that you, it makes it easier for when you're just out there fighting. Sometimes it can be diff- difficult if you are too dependent on it, and you just kind of lose the ability to create yourself, you know? But for the most part, um, he does such a good job of breaking it down that, uh, it, it's, it's pretty easy, but it is, it is a, a very technical system to learn. And anybody who gets a chance to work with Mark Henry, I suggest you do it because... Uh, and here's another thing. Mark Henry is one of those guys, like, I stayed at his house when I first, uh, went, went to stay with him. And he doesn't sleep. Like, he'll stay up to like 2:00, 3:00 in the morning watching film. And then he'll go to sleep for a couple hours, and he'll wake up at like 7:00, 7:00 in the morning to go do his, uh, for his pizza shop 'cause he owns a pizza shop. And he has this crazy work schedule, but he, he loves fighting.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so weird that a guy runs a successful pizza business, and he's also one of the best trainers in the world.
- RERashad Evans
Yes, and he's-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so strange.
- RERashad Evans
And he makes a killing dur-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RERashad Evans
... with his pizza shop. He kills it.
- JRJoe Rogan
I heard his basement gym's amazing.
- RERashad Evans
Oh, it is, it is amazing. His basement gym is where all the magic happens, man. He, uh, he has all the codes written down, and he'll, he tort-, he'll torture you in that basement.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RERashad Evans
He'll torture you. He'll, he'll get your mindset like sharp as hell, but he'll, he'll torture you in that, that basement, you know? And it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's so, such a diverse group of fighters, right? Zabite comes down there.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Marlon Moraes. It's a... He had so many, uh, interesting guys. Edson Barboza. So many interesting guys have gone through that gym.
- RERashad Evans
It's, it's so crazy. Like, when I first, um... Like, I was staying there, and I got to train with Zabite a little bit, and I got to live with Zabite and, and the Russian, the Dagestan fighters.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 1:07:48 – 1:15:56
Modernizing MMA training gear: Onyx, Trevor Wittman’s glove designs, and reducing gym injuries
- RERashad Evans
Oh, my gosh. It's ... I think that, um ... I think, honestly, when- when it comes to, you know, the- the state of mixed martial arts, I think that, you know, once a lot of these fighters start to ... Like, 'cause, uh, we- we were speaking about it earlier, like, we were in a dark ages when you came to training and that transition of how to become more professional with your training, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RERashad Evans
And I think nowadays, fighters are starting to understand that more, you know, with the, you know, the Performance Institute is helping to educate these fighters a lot more on what proper training should be.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RERashad Evans
And- and what it truly could encompass, you know? And now there's more professionalism added to martial arts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RERashad Evans
But there's still an aspect that needs to be covering, and that's on the equipment side, you know? Like, um, the equipment that I ... the- the- the company that I work with, Onyx. Have you heard of Onyx before?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Yeah.
- RERashad Evans
Yeah?
- JRJoe Rogan
I have a pair of the gloves.
- RERashad Evans
Okay. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
Excellent.
- RERashad Evans
The excellent-
- JRJoe Rogan
Very, very good.
- RERashad Evans
So, we have a whole line, and this- the line that we have with Onyx, it's- it's- it's really the first MMA branded, like, of MMA company that's made for all the- the- the way we move in MMA. You know, everything that happens in MMA, because now, the- the equipment that we use now, we borrow it from kickboxing or boxing. And there's that gap of- of just efficiency when it comes to manufacturing, uh, for a mixed martial art, because they- they ... Well, kickboxing, they don't have to worry about all the things that we have to worry about when it comes to, uh, mixed martial arts. So, the equipment that Trevor has made is all with that in mind. You know, the- the gloves that we- we make. You tried the X-Factor Gloves.
Episode duration: 2:24:58
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode auslk18GgIE
