JRE MMA Show #91 with Radio Rahim

1. 0:00 – 4:23

   Rogan’s mugshot-art wall: icons, rebellion, and why the images resonate

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Doo, doo, doo. Yeah, that is a guy named Ross Baines, he painted that. He's also painted this, uh, there's a picture in the green room with me and Daniel Cormier, and there's, uh, another one. The only thing, he sent me the one of Masvidal. This, he did a, an amazing one of Jorge Masvidal when he landed this knee on Ben Askren. He's a great artist. But that's Richard Pryor, he, he painted that for me.

   2. RRRadio Rahim0:21

      Well, clearly, m- my screensaver used to be a collection of mugshots, like-

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      Really?

   4. RRRadio Rahim0:26

      ... Jim Morrison-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:28

      I have Morrison out there.

   6. RRRadio Rahim0:29

      ... uh, Frank Sinatra. I saw.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      Yeah, I have Frank Sinatra in the green room.

   8. RRRadio Rahim0:30

      So, but, okay, so then the thing is, I'm not a criminal, right?

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:33

      Me neither.

   10. RRRadio Rahim0:33

       I don't aspire (laughs) to be a criminal. (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       I don't either.

   12. RRRadio Rahim0:35

       But one of these, like, these mugshots are so iconic-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Yeah.

   14. RRRadio Rahim0:39

       ... what does it mean to you to see, like, your heroes, e- essentially charged with crimes in maybe w- one of the worst nights of their life?

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Well, it didn't start off that way. This is what happened. I was in Hawaii, and they ... I'm a giant Jimi Hendrix fan. That's why I named the podcast Joe Rogan Experience.

   16. RRRadio Rahim0:58

       Ah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       I ripped off The Jimi Hendrix Experience. And I was in Hawaii, and, um, I went into this art gallery, and they had all this, uh, rock and roll art. And they had this really dope, uh, collaboration of Hendrix, his mugshot. It was like six, nine. Nine images? Nine square images of Hendrix's mugshot. I go, that looks cool as fuck, and so I bought it. And I also bought, uh, the Rosa Parks one, and I also bought the Elvis one. They had three different, uh, collab- like, just nine squares on one piece of artwork.

   18. RRRadio Rahim1:32

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       Of ... And I thought it looked cool, so I said, "Oh, that'll be a good backdrop for the podcast." So the old podcast studio, I had those behind me. And then I started picking up other ones, like I got Janis Joplin in the bathroom, I got Johnny Cash-

   20. RRRadio Rahim1:45

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:45

       ... I got Jim- James Brown, I got Pryor on the wall here. I got, uh, Jim Morrison, I got Steven Tyler on the wall over there. I just started collecting 'em, and there's, there's no real rhyme or reason to it. I just ... I got Lenny Bruce, I got everybody ... But I, but I just found mugshots and I just started collecting 'em.

   22. RRRadio Rahim2:02

       I had, like I said, my screensaver was that for, like, a year.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:05

       Yeah.

   24. RRRadio Rahim2:05

       And I even had Sinatra in my room, big, you know-

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:09

       Yeah, yeah.

   26. RRRadio Rahim2:09

       ... a, a big one on the wall and whatnot, and I'm like, "W- you know, what is this shit about?"

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       (laughs)

   28. RRRadio Rahim2:14

       (laughs) But it occurred to me, like, everybody that became an icon and became legend, like, you have to break the rules. There's nobody-

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:20

       Yes.

   30. RRRadio Rahim2:20

       ... who just, like, followed every rule and that's what they're famous for. Like, hey-
2. 4:23 – 6:02

   Hendrix mugshot authenticity and the rabbit hole of collecting more arrests

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:23

      It turned out the one fr-

   2. RRRadio Rahim4:25

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:25

      ... from Hendrix was a bullshit mugshot. It wasn't a real mugshot.

   4. RRRadio Rahim4:28

      He never got arrested?

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:28

      He did get arrested, but the image that I had, some fucking artist took liberties-

   6. RRRadio Rahim4:33

      Ah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:33

      ... and they decided, "Well, this is a cooler picture. Let's put his mugshot logo under that." So it was the actual words from Toronto where he got arrested for heroin underneath his image, but the image was incorrect. So then I went out and got the real image, so now w- that big ... And I used to have 'em in the squares, but then I changed the squares to these big metal ones. See, the one I had-

   8. RRRadio Rahim4:52

      Oh.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:52

      ... is the upper right-hand side. That's the wrong one.

   10. RRRadio Rahim4:54

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:54

       That's not the real image.

   12. RRRadio Rahim4:55

       That is a cooler one, 'cause-

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       Yeah.

   14. RRRadio Rahim4:56

       ... if that one down there ... Yeah, okay. Okay, well, that's a cool one, too.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:59

       But that's the real mugshot. But don't do the one with the, the words behind it. The, the one-

   16. RRRadio Rahim5:03

       Right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       ... next to it, Jamie. No. That's not it. The ... No, next to it.

   18. RRRadio Rahim5:07

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:07

       Ne- right above, above, right above, right there. That's it.

   20. RRRadio Rahim5:09

       That's the one.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:10

       That's the actual one. See-

   22. RRRadio Rahim5:11

       See it?

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:11

       ... that one on the right-hand side? That's the actual image of Hendrix. Oh, I didn't know there's a Mick Jagger.

   24. RRRadio Rahim5:16

       Oh, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:17

       Oh.

   26. RRRadio Rahim5:17

       Yeah, that one's in my collection.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       Well, the Yonkers one is Steven Tyler. I have that one on the wall.

   28. RRRadio Rahim5:23

       Ah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:23

       That's the side shot. But I didn't know Steven ... Did you know that, uh, Mick Jagger got arrested, Jamie? Everybody's been arrested. Um, order that shit. Hold onto those and s- start ordering.

   30. RRRadio Rahim5:34

       (laughs)
3. 6:02 – 8:27

   Setting the stage: why Radio Rahim’s Deontay Wilder interview became legendary

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:02

      Look at him. (laughs) So, dude, let's just get into this, man.

   2. RRRadio Rahim6:08

      (coughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:08

      We had this conversation at The Comedy Store. I'm like, "You gotta come on the podcast. We gotta talk about this, because you are a part of probably the most iconic boxing interview of our day."... you with Deontay Wilder. When Deontay Wilder freaked out on you, it became this huge, huge fucking thing.

   4. RRRadio Rahim6:28

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:28

      To- to this day-

   6. RRRadio Rahim6:30

      To this day.

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:30

      ... to this day, he puts it on his Instagram, he puts it in hashtags, till this day.

   8. RRRadio Rahim6:36

      He sells sweatshirts with till this day on them. There's a store that's adjacent to the Barclay Center, it's connected to the Barclay Center, and it's full of shit that says, "Till this day," on it.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:49

      (laughs)

   10. RRRadio Rahim6:49

       He had a grand opening there. I was invited to it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       (laughs)

   12. RRRadio Rahim6:53

       Like, this is... (laughs) It's not just an iconic meme. This is now a major part of my identity.

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:59

       Do people associate you with it, though? Do they, like, automatically or do they just as- so 'cause it's your f- you see the side of your face, but you see him, angry as fuck-

   14. RRRadio Rahim7:10

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:11

       ... arguably the scariest heavyweight of all time.

   16. RRRadio Rahim7:13

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       I mean, Mike Tyson's right up there. Mike Ty- see, off sta- off s- ring, outside of the ring, Deontay is a sweetheart. He's a really nice guy. So, to see him angry outside the ring is kinda weird 'cause I had him on the podcast. He couldn't be a nicer guy.

   18. RRRadio Rahim7:30

       Yeah, it's true.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:31

       He's, he's a really nice guy. L- and so, to see him angry at you, "To this day,"-

   20. RRRadio Rahim7:36

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:36

       ... and, like, giving you crazy eyes that was like, "Ugh," and when you explained it, it's like, yeah that's what you do in an interview. You- you- you want someone to expand and say, "What do you mean by that?"

   22. RRRadio Rahim7:46

       Yeah, and listen, man, this is not like the first day we met.

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:49

       Right.

   24. RRRadio Rahim7:49

       It's not like I just happened upon this, uh, heavyweight champion of the world screaming and then decided to piss him off.

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:55

       (laughs)

   26. RRRadio Rahim7:56

       (laughs) You know, we've had multiple conversations, sat down for hours at a time. In fact, in Belfast, in Germany, he, uh, or Ireland, I'm sorry, we sat down for an hour and I don't know. So, I'm gonna give you the c- I'm gonna give you the context of what I was thinking in the moment.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:11

       Okay.

   28. RRRadio Rahim8:11

       All right? He was on stage-

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:13

       Tell it, 'cause m- some people might not be aware of exactly what happened, so just try to-

   30. RRRadio Rahim8:17

       Okay. So-
4. 8:27 – 12:30

   Context behind the question: Fury, Wilder, identity, and “fighting people” history

   1. RRRadio Rahim8:27

      (laughs) Deontay Wilder is facing Tyson Fury. Tyson Fury is a British gypsy, okay? He is a boisterous, very animated, uh, showman in boxing. Heavyweights, mind you. These guys are giants. First time they've, they met, this is December 18. So, uh, I travel the world covering boxing, everywhere. Like I said, I sat down with this guy in Ireland. I've covered Tyson Fury in, uh, England. I've covered him in America. I've covered boxing literally everywhere. So, I'm familiar with what you also know, that fighting, even combat sports, boxing, MMA, there is a regional aspect to it. Like, everybody's culture brings something to it. The Irish fighter feels like he's got a certain style, he's got a certain history, he's got a claim to the warrior legacy. Same for the British fighter. Of course, the American fighter. But both of these guys come from what's like an underclass of their society. Uh, j- uh, travelers, gypsies-

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:27

      Yeah.

   3. RRRadio Rahim9:27

      ... in England are looked down upon. These people h- are cultural fighters, and I don't mean, uh, necessarily just the oppression of being an underclass, but fighting is part of their tradition, almost like it is to Mexicans in Mexico. It's something that they do that bonds the clan.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:45

      Yeah.

   5. RRRadio Rahim9:45

      It's, they- they believe in a history of it. Obviously, Deontay Wilder is from Alabama. You know, he's as dark as midnight. He is a descendant of slaves for sure. (laughs) Okay? He's got a history coming to any fight, bringing what he experiences in this country to this element of the face-off, one man, one man versus one man. So, when Tyson Fury is on stage during the press conference, and something, uh, uh, possessed him to say, "You know, I'm coming from a fighting people. My people have been fighting for 200 years." Well, in context, he means that the culture of travelers, of gypsies is one of, "We're fighting men, I'm a fighting man." That's something that they say about themselves and each other. So, that's what he's bringing to this argument. That's how he's challenging Wilder. But Wilder takes that and says, "200 years of fight- my people have been fighting for 400 years."

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:37

      (laughs)

   7. RRRadio Rahim10:38

      (laughs) Of course he's talking about the- the Black experience in America, slavery, all in- all alike. But mind you, he's talking to a British fighter. He's talking to a world audience. This is not like uh, he- he's fighting Dominic Breazeale. You know what I'm saying? Where it's two Americans, probably not gonna get that much international, uh, attention. The world's watching, particularly communities that don't necessarily know when a Black man says, "400 years," you know, I know, you know, 'cause we grew up in America, you know what we're talking about. The world doesn't know that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:12

      (laughs)

   9. RRRadio Rahim11:12

      I travel the world. They're not just, they're n- they're not steeped in Black American history. I've had conversations with him. He loves to talk about the plight of the Black man in America and how it relates to his career, how he feels, you know, disadvantaged in certain ways, and he carries a mantle in other ways. He's a champion of Black America in certain ways, and he's a victim of white America in other ways. So, when I see this argument happening, I'm like, "Oh, okay. Well, this is definitely a moment." But I'm not a pool reporter, right? So, in this particular instance, it's unusual for me to be part of the scrum, is what they call it. Collection of, uh, reporters, uh, everybody's kinda shouting questions out, just trying to evoke responses. Usually, I'm a one-on-one guy. I'll wait my turn, right? But on this particular day, l- the other week, uh, I didn't have a haircut. I wasn't really... (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:04

       (laughs)

   11. RRRadio Rahim12:04

       I was coming, I had just got back from Dubai. I went in Dubai with like, you know, Dave Chappelle. I'm hanging out. It's after Thanksgiving. I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna kinda mail this one in," to be honest. I'm thinking, "Let me throw something out because I know what he's talking about, and I also know that the audience around us, in the world especially, may not have caught that reference." But he is, he's a- it's- it's a high watermark right now. It's Thursday, and the fight's Saturday.

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:29

       So, he's amped up.

5. 12:30 – 16:34

   The trigger: “your people” phrasing and how the scrum moment detonated

   1. RRRadio Rahim12:30

      Yeah, that's the other thing. Fight week...... fighters are not them- so it's not the guy you were sitting across from- Right, right, right, right. ... doing the experience. Right, right. Right, right. You know what I mean? That guy was having a good day. Right. This guy's been waiting to fight for at least three months, if not, you know, uh, 10 weeks. Ramped up. Ramped, right? He comes off stage, he answers a couple of other questions, and then just to be sure, because I've been doing this a long time, I'm not an idiot, I know he's amped and I want him to get the question clearly, "Deontay, Radio Raheem." I say my name so he knows who it's coming from. Not 'cause he doesn't know me, but because he does. Right. "So Radio Raheem, you just said, uh, your people have been fighting for 400 years." Okay, first of all, I'm in the midst of my question. Right. I, uh, I don't do these things, uh, uh, haphazardly. Yes. I word my questions very carefully. Yes. But in the ears (laughs) of Black America, later in this, later in this story you'll find out that "your people," that part of the question, became, uh, incredibly important and, uh, people were very sensitive about that. Because you said "your people"- 'Cause I said- ... instead of "our people." ... "your people" instead of "our people." Right. But I'm fucking quoting the guy. Right. Okay? I am not speaking for him, I'm- Yes, yes, yes. ... quoting what he said. He said, "My people have been fighting for 400 years." So if he had said "our people," I would've said "our people," but- Right. ... I can't take possession of your quote. It's not me saying it- Right. ... it's you saying it. Right. "Your people have been fighting for 400 years." What did you mean by that? So, uh, I mean, he, laser focus, turns to me, he's already at 10, like, there's no ramp up at this time. Right. And h- he started, you know, shouting in my face like, uh, "Your people too," like, "You know what I'm talking about." He says, "Don't try to bait, you know what I'm talking about when I say these things, when I-" I'm like, "Well, yeah, I do, can you tell them what you're talking about?" You're trying to get him to explain. I'm trying to get him to explain to the world what he said to me on numerous occasions in different interviews and off camera. I know exactly what he's talking about and I know that this is the moment that he finally gets to talk about it- Right. ... to people who have never been listening to him before. Right. But... (laughs) When he, when he heard "your," it was a trigger for him too. Hmm. I'm so oblivious and I, uh, even looking back I'm like, "Man, how did you miss that?" I d- I swear to God I didn't know what the fuck was the problem. He starts saying, shouting, "Your people," and I'm like, "Well, I, wha-" it took me, him, he, he couldn't, h- he needed to keep saying it 'cause I didn't know why he was saying that. "Yeah, my people too, my people too," oh. There's a moment I'm like, "Oh, uh-oh." (laughs) Oh, no! (laughs) I thought he was shouting at them! Oh my goodness. He was shouting at me! Oh, no! (laughs) Ah, uh, you know, "Our people been fighting for 400 years-" Ugh. "... to this day, to this day." And I, uh, so what I wanted, what I wanted, what I thought was happening was that, okay, this moment now has become about him a- like, attacking me because he thinks I'm attacking him. He thinks because I do know what he's talking about, he knows we've spoken about it with- numerous times, he thinks I'm pretending... Oh. ... not to know, like some, you know, air quotes, Uncle Tom or what, you know, the numerous names I've been called on the internet since- Mm-hmm. ... as though I'm trying to pretend like, "Oh, I don't, what, 400 years? What does, what does that mean?" (laughs) You know what I mean? (laughs) I'm like, "Uh, okay, okay, okay, fine." So... (laughs) So when he's screaming at you- Mm-hmm. ... what is going through your mind when he's hitting you with... Is it "to

6. 16:34 – 18:58

   Watching the viral clip: “to this day” vs “till this day,” and what got cut

   1. RRRadio Rahim16:34

      this day" or "till this day?" Okay. (laughs) 'Cause there is a debate on that. First of all- Let's, let's see, let's play it. All right, here we go, here we go. Explain what you mean by that.

   2. DWDeontay Wilder16:40

      You know what I'm talking about. Y'all all know what I'm talking about, man. Don't sit up here and try to bait and not know what I'm talking about. Y'all know what the fuck I talk about when I say these things, your people too!

   3. RRRadio Rahim16:51

      Explain it, I, uh, not everybody knows what you're talking about.

   4. DWDeontay Wilder16:54

      I don't gotta explain what's understood, Radio Raheem! I don't have to explain what's understood, man. You know what I mean by that. You know what I said by that, I ain't gotta go farther. And if nobody, if anybody don't understand that, then God be with them, go look up the history. Go look up the history. Shit, ain't, don't everybody believe in Google? Go Google that shit and see what I'm talking about. You know what I'm talking about, man. You know what, I dare you to sit up there and say it's, explain, you know what I'm talking about, man. His fighting people. You know we've been fighting 400 and still fighting to this day. To this day!

   5. RRRadio Rahim17:27

      (laughs)

   6. DWDeontay Wilder17:28

      To this day! You just sit here, you don't know what I'm talking about? Man, I'm outta here, bro. Let's go.

   7. RRRadio Rahim17:38

      Come on, let's go.

   8. DWDeontay Wilder17:39

      Let's go, man.

   9. RRRadio Rahim17:43

      Fuck. Yeah. Look at you. Okay, see, see, uh, you don't have to keep playing it, but just so you know, there's more to this video. In fact, the last guy says, "Oh, we, we know, I, I, uh, we know what he's talking about." That's what I just said at the end, but that clip everyone in the world has seen- Right. ... fits very neatly on Instagram- Of course. ... in a minute. Oh, no. Right? (laughs) So you miss the beginning and the end- (gasps) ... but the drama- Welcome to 2020 (laughs) or '19 or- (laughs) Yes! Welcome to the new age- Uh- ... of clips and things being taken outta context. So listen, this is not the first time I've had an interview that has, you know, uh, gotten major attention and not the first time a fighter's been pissed off at me. I knew that this was going to be a big thing, like, I knew people were gonna talk about it. Bro, I had no fucking concept...... of what was about to happen to my night. Like, I'm like basically when you're a reporter like this, you're like, "Okay, well, that was dramatic. We got a hot one. That one might get me a, you know, few 100,000 if not 1,000,000 views maybe." Like this is-

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:47

       (exhales) .

   11. RRRadio Rahim18:47

       Yeah, we got the, we got the champ. But also I'm thinking, you know, it's something of a success, like, okay, we got him to express at least in his, m- in that moment, something that we don't usually see. It's fight week.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:58

       Right.

7. 18:58 – 23:58

   When the clip goes nuclear: Instagram backlash, celebrities piling on, and panic

   1. RRRadio Rahim18:58

      We talked to this guy a million times. Everyone's had their interviews, he's been on every show and that was like the realest moment in the whole build-up. So for me, that in and of itself is something of a victory. Like you've, you've created a moment here where you got to see inside the champ's heart. You got to see like his passion. When I get home though, I gotta take a nap, like it's a been a long day, it's good. So as (laughs) as these stories tend to go, I'm woken up by chimes on my phone. Cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching.

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:26

      Oh-ho-ho.

   3. RRRadio Rahim19:26

      What the fuck is going on? What's going on?

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:28

      (sighs) .

   5. RRRadio Rahim19:28

      In the interim, he's posted on Instagram just a minute of what is really like a two-and-a-half minute interview-

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:35

      Man.

   7. RRRadio Rahim19:35

      ... where it looks so bad.

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:38

      (laughs)

   9. RRRadio Rahim19:38

      And then he's written like a paragraph essentially about having to like, you know, teach people like basically not to be Uncle Toms, and how you gotta like straighten it out, and like there's a whole-

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:50

       (groans)

   11. RRRadio Rahim19:51

       ... like civil rights diatribe.

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:53

       (inhales deeply)

   13. RRRadio Rahim19:53

       And I'm the pin cushion, right?

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:55

       Oh my God.

   15. RRRadio Rahim19:55

       Like I'm-

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:56

       (laughs)

   17. RRRadio Rahim19:57

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       (laughs)

   19. RRRadio Rahim19:57

       I'm the straw man, I'm the guy.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       Oh my God.

   21. RRRadio Rahim20:01

       And, uh, I- I- I start to, of course, read the comments, I'm like, "Well, uh, maybe is, is there any possible way this is good?" Bro, everybody's like, "Fuck that guy."

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:12

       (laughs)

   23. RRRadio Rahim20:12

       Somebody... (laughs) Uncle Tom, Uncle Ruckus, sellout.

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:16

       Oh. Oh.

   25. RRRadio Rahim20:17

       You know, I always hated-

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:18

       Oh.

   27. RRRadio Rahim20:18

       ... this motherfucker, like-

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:19

       Oh, no. Oh, no.

   29. RRRadio Rahim20:21

       Bro.

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:21

       (laughs)
8. 23:58 – 33:02

   Reframing the disaster: journalism goals, hidden follow-up interview, and long-term fallout

   1. RRRadio Rahim23:58

      Um, yeah. So as this thing gets bigger and bigger, uh, I start to realize that it's, it's well out of my control. And then I have to start to think about what my role really is. It- it's not about me. It's not... What I do isn't so that people can feel one way or another about me. It's really, again, taking myself back to that initial moment of showing 'em something about the fighter that they haven't seen. Let's get a look inside this guy and get him to share something usually-

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:30

      Yeah.

   3. RRRadio Rahim24:30

      ... just verbally, that they didn't know or that he, there wasn't, he didn't come to the room expecting to share.

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:35

      Right.

   5. RRRadio Rahim24:36

      And I support...... people understanding the culture from which he, we, come as black Americans. I wa- th- I wanted to give him the stage to do exactly that.

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:49

      Right.

   7. RRRadio Rahim24:49

      Didn't turn out like I expected-

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:51

      In, in, in hindsight.

   9. RRRadio Rahim24:52

      ... but it did become an iconic, like, civil rights, I guess, type of m- moment. It, it became one of those things that people identify with, black power, black information being like, "Yo, this is, this is what we're experiencing-"

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:05

       Yeah.

   11. RRRadio Rahim25:05

       "... and this is how deep it still runs," at that time in 2018.

   12. JRJoe Rogan25:10

       Did you think about it, like, in retrospect, "How could I have phrased that better?" I mean, I'm c- sure you did, right? What could you have said? 'Cause you wanted to get that out of there. You wanted to get him to s- to expand on it.

   13. RRRadio Rahim25:23

       I think that I, it was exactly the right thing at the right time. I couldn't have predicted in a million years it would've went that way, but that's the way it was supposed to go. If I had phrased it, so-called, better, and he had given a more reasoned, thoughtful answer, we wouldn't be sitting here. See, what-

   14. JRJoe Rogan25:41

       He would've made less money, too.

   15. RRRadio Rahim25:42

       (laughs) The fight would've sold less tickets-

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:44

       Yeah.

   17. RRRadio Rahim25:44

       ... less pay-per-views. No, that, wouldn't have went viral. You wouldn't have gave a shit about my side of the story.

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:50

       (laughs)

   19. RRRadio Rahim25:51

       (laughs) Like, the moment doesn't exist.

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:52

       Right. Right.

   21. RRRadio Rahim25:54

       And, and that's the beauty of like-

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:55

       When you were telling me in the back of the comedy store, I'm like, "Oh, shit, that's you!"

   23. RRRadio Rahim25:59

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:00

       Oh, my God.

   25. RRRadio Rahim26:02

       (laughs) So the blessing and the angle and the camera work in w- in some regard is, some people don't know it's me.

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:08

       (laughs)

   27. RRRadio Rahim26:09

       And I'm so happy for that. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:12

       (laughs) Oh, my God.

   29. RRRadio Rahim26:14

       And the, but the ones who do, there is enough who do, so I'm telling you, Joe, every day since then, it's been over a year now, someone, somewhere, every time I've left my home, and sometimes while I'm still in it, has shouted in my face, "To this day!"

   30. JRJoe Rogan26:29

       (laughs)
9. 33:02 – 51:07

   Comment sections and accountability: anonymity, trolls, and why Joe avoids reading comments

   1. JRJoe Rogan33:02

      He existed in a vacuum. This is before the internet.

   2. RRRadio Rahim33:05

      Hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan33:05

      And one of the things I think about internet, um, (clears throat) commentary in the age of the internet is you're accountable. You're accountable in a different way. (coughs) Back then, if you were Howard Cosell or if you were anyone who was commenting on sports, you really could kinda get away with it, other than what radio guys would say about you or journalists would say about you.

   4. RRRadio Rahim33:24

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan33:24

      But the regular person didn't have a say.

   6. RRRadio Rahim33:26

      They didn't have a voice.

   7. JRJoe Rogan33:26

      Now, now the regular person has a fuckload to say.

   8. RRRadio Rahim33:30

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan33:30

      (laughs) Trust me, as a commentator, you know? I mean, I know when I've made mistakes, you know? I don't, I don't have to read the comments. I know if I fuck something up.

   10. RRRadio Rahim33:38

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan33:38

       A- but they'll let me know.

   12. RRRadio Rahim33:40

       I don't mind. In fact, I encourage a regular person-

   13. JRJoe Rogan33:42

       Mm-hmm.

   14. RRRadio Rahim33:43

       ... to have something to say. It's these strange motherfuckers that are like ... Really should probably pipe down. Like, w- if you, and you do because you're on YouTube and you're on the internet, the, uh, the amount of comments that are useful or thoughtful or like, "Huh, okay, interesting," 90%, maybe 92. But there's like 8%, that 8% are really just like vitriolic, racist, sexist, b- like violent trolls.

   15. JRJoe Rogan34:14

       Yeah. Shitposters.

   16. RRRadio Rahim34:16

       That's a good way to put it, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan34:17

       Yeah, that's the expression, sh- shitposting. You never heard that before?

   18. RRRadio Rahim34:20

       I haven't heard it, but it's wildly accurate.

   19. JRJoe Rogan34:23

       It's like a Reddit thing, right? 4chan, Reddit?

   20. NANarrator34:26

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan34:27

       Yeah. That's ... They call it shitposting. Guys do it on purpose. All they're trying to do is get a rise out of you. They're trying to say the most fucked up thing to you-

   22. RRRadio Rahim34:33

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan34:33

       ... to make other people laugh and to get a rise out of you. And if you met them in real life, they'd be like, "I'm sorry, I'm just bored at work."

   24. RRRadio Rahim34:38

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan34:38

       Like, a lot of them, or they're 12.

   26. RRRadio Rahim34:40

       You know Deontay went and, like, beat a guy up that was-

   27. JRJoe Rogan34:44

       Oh, well, that guy (clears throat) that he beat up, that guy is fucking crazy. That guy would fight every ... You know, Floyd Mayweather Sr beat his ass.

   28. RRRadio Rahim34:52

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan34:52

       Did you ever see that?

   30. RRRadio Rahim34:53

       I didn't see that.
10. 51:07 – 1:00:12

    Rahim’s origin story: Wild Card Gym, filming sparring, and inventing early internet boxing content

    1. RRRadio Rahim51:07

       But I came up in an age in the, uh... At the very beginning of YouTube, I was training at Wild Card Boxing Gym. And I'm a teenager training there. The, the, the gym is, uh, fairly, fairly new. And I had... It was still, like, mini-DV days. And I had a camera that I would use to shoot sparring sessions. And because Freddie has a gym where there are world championship fighters preparing for title fights on television, the class of fighter that's in there on any given day sparring are, like, main event ticket-selling marquee guys. And I'm in there shooting their sparring session, any, you know, any... Name anybody vers anybody, and I'm using the money I'm making selling the sparring footage back to the fighters to pay my gym dues.

    2. JRJoe Rogan51:56

       Wow.

    3. RRRadio Rahim51:56

       That's how I started, is, like, in-

    4. JRJoe Rogan51:59

       So that's how you got into journalism.

    5. RRRadio Rahim52:01

       ... filming boxing. Yeah. B- but... Okay, I... It's a, it's an interesting story.

    6. JRJoe Rogan52:05

       Commentating?

    7. RRRadio Rahim52:05

       Because I was doing broadcasting since 10th grade. I was, like, at a performing arts high school. We had a radio station in the basement. It's like a coming-of-age, like, '80s movie or some shit.

    8. JRJoe Rogan52:16

       (laughs)

    9. RRRadio Rahim52:16

       Like, you know-

    10. JRJoe Rogan52:16

        Christian Slater.

    11. RRRadio Rahim52:17

        ... I'd blow the dust... Yeah, exactly.

    12. JRJoe Rogan52:18

        (laughs)

    13. RRRadio Rahim52:18

        Blow the dust off the equipment, like, ask the faculty, "Can I do a show?" And so I'm covering, like, headline news and whatever a fucking 10th grader thinks is important and who won the football game and, you know, this kind of shit. But I always thought that, you know, I'm gonna be a talk radio guy. Never sports, though. I've been training boxing since fifth grade, but never did I, like, did I think the two shall meet. Except that I'm now... I've, I've moved to LA right after high school. I'm in Freddie Roach's boxing gym. I'm training. Can't... Barely afford dues, so I gotta come up with a way to do that. I start shooting sparring sessions. And, and this, this is like, uh, James Toney is still fighting.

    14. JRJoe Rogan52:54

        Oh.

    15. RRRadio Rahim52:54

        Okay? We're on the... We're in the sunset of his career, but he's still the man. And there's a guy named Danny Green who is a Australian fighter, wildly famous there, but doesn't have, like, global audience. He wants to fight James. There's no real money in it for James. But if you know James Toney, this is no shrinking violet. This man is, like, insane. He was, like, Wilder turnt up to, like... I- if... If "to this day" was every day, that was James Toney at Wild Card Boxing Gym, right? So this guy flies from Australia, walks into the gym. And you know what a sacred place those are. Like, if the, the main fighter at any gym, the guy who, like, is the, the representation of the toughest dude in that-

    16. JRJoe Rogan53:36

        The top dog.

    17. RRRadio Rahim53:36

        Yeah, the top dog. You don't just walk into that guy's gym and start talking shit.

    18. JRJoe Rogan53:41

        Especially with James Toney.

    19. RRRadio Rahim53:42

        Especially with James Toney.

    20. JRJoe Rogan53:44

        No one talked more shit than James Toney.

    21. RRRadio Rahim53:46

        (laughs) Right. But-

    22. JRJoe Rogan53:46

        He'll talk shit in the middle of a round, right?

    23. RRRadio Rahim53:49

        (laughs) Exactly. Famous for it.

    24. JRJoe Rogan53:50

        All throughout, all throughout rounds.

    25. RRRadio Rahim53:52

        This guy comes to the James gym, starts talking shit. James is like, "Get in the ring right now. Your last 10 rounds, I'll fight you anywhere. You can get in the fight." He takes, takes the challenge, gets in there, gets the shit beat out of him for, like, eight rounds just... Ugh, just pummeled. I'm shooting the thing. I'm like-

    26. JRJoe Rogan54:08

        This is it right here.

    27. RRRadio Rahim54:09

        Oh! Wh- Okay.

    28. JRJoe Rogan54:11

        Look at this.

    29. RRRadio Rahim54:11

        First of all, I am wildly impressed that you came up with this.

    30. JRJoe Rogan54:14

        Oh, Jamie's the GOAT.
11. 1:00:12 – 1:11:19

    Boxing as therapy, not a fight career: training mindset and what sparring really costs

    1. RRRadio Rahim1:00:12

       So, um, my entire career and trajectory in life was changed at a boxing gym and never to look back. And-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:22

       Were you a fighter at one point in time?

    3. RRRadio Rahim1:00:24

       Never.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

       Never?

    5. RRRadio Rahim1:00:25

       Never. Always ti-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

       You just used to train?

    7. RRRadio Rahim1:00:26

       Always trained since, since fifth grade, always training. It's taken incredibly seriously. I've heard you talk about this too, and it's... It couldn't be more true. This was a way for me to release, like, all of those young man angst.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

       Mm-hmm.

    9. RRRadio Rahim1:00:40

       All that frustration. It's really my therapy. I could barely afford gym dues, you know I can't afford therapy.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

        Right. (laughs)

    11. RRRadio Rahim1:00:47

        (laughs) Boxing was that. It was like-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

        Right.

    13. RRRadio Rahim1:00:49

        ... an integral part of my life. I spent hours in the gym to where I had to figure out a way to make some money there, so I could continue to eat and pay for it.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

        (laughs)

    15. RRRadio Rahim1:00:56

        And that was my way of doing it.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

        Ah.

    17. RRRadio Rahim1:00:58

        Um, and so be- interviewing fighters is now, like, my claim to fame, because everybody thinks they're reinventing the wheel now. You can't shoot anybody sparring or anything like that. So that show had to go away. But the way that I relate to and understand fighters and what it is like that's inside them, that's, that they're experiencing, that's driving them, I think is unique, because although I would never ever classify myself as a fighter, that's such a, uh, a unique and, and cherished like banner that you can really hold if that's really what you do, I'm a lawyer too. You know what I mean? Like I've, I... In my own way, I forged a career. I created something that didn't exist and I had to fight every step along the way to make it a thing.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

        So d- is this something while you were doing it, you were realizing like, "I'm making a career out of talking about boxing"? Were you doing that? Or were you thinking, "Well, I'm doing this for now, and I'm gonna do something else"?

    19. RRRadio Rahim1:01:55

        ... I, I kept doing what was working.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

        Oh.

    21. RRRadio Rahim1:01:59

        You know what I mean? And I, at- at times I thought about doing something else, but never did I spend as much time thinking about or applying myself to anything else.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:10

        Mm.

    23. RRRadio Rahim1:02:11

        So yeah, other things would come up, but every, but it, it all would bring, it would always come back to this. I would always go back to the gym.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

        'Cause Dave is a crazy boxing fan too, and I remember Dave talked to me at one point in time about the three of us doing something. This is a while back, right?

    25. RRRadio Rahim1:02:25

        Strap Season. Dave and I-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:27

        (laughs)

    27. RRRadio Rahim1:02:28

        ... have a show (laughs) called Strap Season. And the best way I could describe it is it's like a, the Anthony Bourdain of boxing, if you will. As I've said, I go all over the world covering fights.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:42

        Mm-hmm.

    29. RRRadio Rahim1:02:42

        Every community of, uh, combat sports has its own culture. Every fighter's got his own story. Every fight's got its own narrative that's connected to another fight that's connected to another fight that's got a historical point of view. And that's how I see the world of combat sports. Like, that's how I see boxing. It's through that lens that this show exists. And you're right. Dave's a phenomenal boxing fan. He knows his shit. He goes to the fights. He takes his whole crew to the fights, buys everybody ringside tickets. Like, we talk for hours on the phone about any and every fight that's upcoming. And we met in Macau at a Pacquiao/Rios.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:03:24

        Wow. Brandon Rios?
12. 1:11:19 – 1:25:34

    Modern heavyweight boxing boom: Ruiz’s upset, Wilder’s power, and Fury rematch hype

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:11:19

       You know? But, uh, when you see combat sports today and you see, like, the landscape of boxing, I, I feel personally that this is an amazing time. I mean, I feel like the heavyweight division has never been more exciting and more turbulent because there's so many great fighters now. To have Andrew Ruiz jump outta nowhere and knock out Anthony Joshua I think was a godsend for the sport. Because all of a sudden you see, like, "Look at this chubby Mexican just fucked up this dude who looks like a god."

Episode duration: 2:22:51