JRE MMA Show #97 with Henry Cejudo

1. 0:01 – 1:02

   Retirement satisfaction—and the “unless” that hints at a comeback

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Henry Cejudo! How are you, sir?

   2. HCHenry Cejudo0:04

      Oh, I'm doing good, Joe.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      Good to see you, man.

   4. HCHenry Cejudo0:06

      Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      What does it feel like? What does it feel like having stepped back, you step away, you get to look at it from a fresh perspective. What does this feel like?

   6. HCHenry Cejudo0:16

      Uh, it, it feels good, man. It, it feels, uh... I think the biggest thing with me, Joe, is there's satisfaction in my life. You know what I'm saying? I've done so much in the sport, and I can compare myself a little bit to Daniel. You know? If Daniel would have beat Stipe Miocic and he would have retired on top, now, he, he, he could almost say he retired as a two-division world champ. And, uh, I don't feel like I have that chip on my shoulder. You know, as a wrestler, I, I retired from the Olympics at a very young age. You know, decided to come back three years later, but, you know what I mean? It was, it was already done, you know what I mean? I retired at the age of 21. And then now at the age of 33, I'm, I'm, I'm truly calling it quits unless there's, there's a couple fights that if I do come back.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:58

      I like that word unless.

   8. HCHenry Cejudo1:00

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00

      I like that word.

2. 1:02 – 1:59

   Calling out Volkanovski at 145: chasing a three-division title

   1. HCHenry Cejudo1:02

      Yeah. And as you know, and, and, and, and a little bit it's... Before it was about the money a little bit with the UFC. And obviously, you know, everybody does have a price. But I think there's, there's, there's a fight that I, that I would really like in the UFC, and that would be against Oleksandr Volkanovski.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:18

      Really?

   3. HCHenry Cejudo1:19

      Yeah. If they're-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:20

      45?

   5. HCHenry Cejudo1:20

      At 45. If they were to give me an opportunity to go up and obviously be compensated, then that would be a fight that would really, uh, that would really wake me up in the morning and be like, "Hey, man, this is, this is a challenge. This is a whole new mountain." You know?

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:32

      A chance to be a three-division world champion.

   7. HCHenry Cejudo1:36

      A chance to be a three-division world champion. As you know, a lot of people have counted me out against Demetrious, against TJ, against Marlon. That, and may- maybe it was you too, Joe.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:44

      No, no, no, no, no.

   9. HCHenry Cejudo1:45

      And, and, and I think that's what I love about it.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       You can't find any evidence of me counting you out, sir.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo1:50

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       Never.

   13. HCHenry Cejudo1:51

       So I love that. I love challenges. Since I was a kid, I knew I was, I knew I was different. I knew I was special. And, uh, these are the things-

3. 1:59 – 4:07

   What separates champions: Cejudo’s “heart vs. ability” framework

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:59

      What is it that you knew? Like, what, what separates you?

   2. HCHenry Cejudo2:03

      Oh my God, I think it's, I think it's, it's a couple things. If I was to explain it to you, like, what's, what's made me successful and... And I've seen it, you know, being at the Olympic Training Center, uh, as a high school kid and living out there for four years. That's actually where I met Daniel. And I was a 16-year-old kid when I first met these guys, and I was able to analyze a lot of the greats, like, you know, uh, Stephen Abbess, Daniel Cormier, a lot of the Olympic team. And, uh, what I've learned now at the age of 33, I learned that there's been two things that have separated me from, from the rest of the pack. It's, it's, it's two things with what I call heart and ability. And I was actually able to tell this story to, uh, to Chatri, you know, the, the founder and CEO of ONE FC. And, uh, you know, so it's two things. I call it heart and ability. What is your heart? Your heart is your passion, your will, your desire, your determination. Your heart is something that you're willing to suffer for in order to obtain. Now, the next one is ability. You know, ability is, is a gift that you have since, since, you know, it's a coordination. It's, it's something that you've repped over time where you become a master at it. And what happens is a lot of time, it's, I, I always tell people, "It's good to question one or the other." It's good to question the mind, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the heart or, or the ability. Because to be the 1% of the one percenters, like, both these things have to match. What happens is a lot of people have heart, but their ability is, like, way down here. You know, their ability doesn't match their heart, or their ability is up here and they're just a little lazy and can't really-

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:32

      Yeah.

   4. HCHenry Cejudo3:33

      ... put the... You know, because there is a separation between mind and body, and your job is to connect them both. And I, and I'm gonna use an example, uh, with Marlon Marais. You saw me getting my ass kicked. You saw me getting leg kicked, you know, from the first all the way to the second round. But I knew that I had it connected and make that transition. That was a combination of combining the heart and the ability. You know, so I was able to kind of... So what separated me, I'd say that, I think is being, being gifted through the ability and then just having a, a passion, a will, that's just second to none.

4. 4:07 – 6:57

   Finding the right coaches and building the ‘perfect storm’ after early losses

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:07

      There's a lot of other factors though, isn't there? There's like not just ability, it's also you have to be coached by someone who really knows what they're doing. It's, there's, there's so many guys out there that are really tough and they have will and they, they work out hard and they're in shape, but they just make technical mistakes, and they've never corrected those, those mistakes.

   2. HCHenry Cejudo4:26

      Yeah. Well, I think that also goes back on the ability p-... Uh, I, I would put that into the ability portion. The reason why is because you gotta put yourself in the right situations. Like, I didn't start winning until I let go of my coaches.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:40

      Mm.

   4. HCHenry Cejudo4:40

      The first time I lost to Demetrious Johnson, it was, uh... Man, I, I... It was hard. A- and this sounds, this is gonna sound very crazy and cynical, but it was kind of hard to blame myself, man. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:50

      (laughs)

   6. HCHenry Cejudo4:50

      Even though I was training because I knew coming from an Olympic sport that I had a coach that could take me to the top and there was no ifs or buts. Like, I knew he knew the recipe. MMA was still a fairly new s- and it's still a fairly new sport. So I knew that I had to find the professors, I knew that I had to find the scientists, and all this again in order for me to become that perfect storm. So that's exactly what we did, you know, putting, putting the science, the recovery, uh, finding the right coaches, listening to my ability, understanding my biomechanics. Like, it was a mixture of, of, of all these things that's, that's made, that separated me from the first time I fought Demetrious to just being a, just being a legend killer, man, to beating all these guys that they said had... You know, Demetrious Johnson, TJ, you know, Marlon Marais, Dominick Cruz, man. That's, that's a hell of a list, Joe.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:37

      It's a hell of a list.

   8. HCHenry Cejudo5:38

      You know, that's a hell of a list, man.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:39

      It, it's one of the reasons why it bums me out that you've retired. Like, I, I have two... I've conflicting feelings. One, I'm happy.

   10. HCHenry Cejudo5:45

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:46

       I'm happy you retired young and healthy and you could do anything you want, man. I really believe a guy who can accomplish what you've accomplished inside the octagon and also winning an Olympic gold medal is... You, you winning an Oly- Olympic gold medal in wrestling at 21 years old-

   12. HCHenry Cejudo5:59

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:59

       ... retiring from the sport, then getting into MMA, becoming a two-division world champion in MMA, and then stepping away while you're still healthy and at the peak of your abilities. Part of me loves that. I love the fact that you did what you wanted to do and then you step away. But part of me looks back...... at, like say when you fought Benavidez or say when you fought, uh, Demetrious the first time and then looks at you now, like you're a completely different animal. Nobody had been able to shut down Dominick Cruz's f- footwork game. But you came in and just chopped the shit outta his legs. Just right off the bat, you, you... whatever advantage we thought that he would have with his footwork and movement was, was actually becoming a disadvantage, because you, you were using that against him. You were, you, you found the angles and you found the, the perfect times to attack his legs and then you put him away, which is also something no one's ever done before except Uriah caught him in his submission and finish, finished him. But n- no one's ever put him away, put him away the way you did.

5. 6:57 – 8:33

   Game-planning mastery: adapting styles and solving Dominick Cruz’s movement

   1. HCHenry Cejudo6:57

      Yeah, and I think it's all about game planning. I think people, uh, you know, you... I, I think the ability that I have too that separates me too is the fact that I'm... Watch all my fights man, I fight everybody different, like I really do man. There's times where I have to use wrestling as I did with Demetrious-

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:10

      Well the Wilson Reis fight's a great example. You came out like a karate guy.

   3. HCHenry Cejudo7:13

      Yeah. Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:14

      I was like, "Holy shit, look at this."

   5. HCHenry Cejudo7:16

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:16

      You were like Wonderboy, f- sideways stance, like hands down. You really fought-

   7. HCHenry Cejudo7:21

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:21

      ... like a karate guy. And then you, when you caught him with that straight punch and dropped him, I was like, "Look at this shit, this is crazy." Like you fought a different style.

   9. HCHenry Cejudo7:30

      Yeah, and I think with Dominick too, just to get back to him, it's... In order for you to understand the f- uh... In order for you to understand the funk, like you have to train for the funk. You know, if you don't train for Dominick, if you think you can just go out there and just fight or train the way you train and try to fight Dominick, you're gonna be missing.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:48

       Mm.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo7:49

       So throughout my training camps, like I, I treated almost like a wrestler, like a boxer. Like my training camp, like I build a team around me. I have a good, I have a, a mentor actually who's here, Dave Zohan who's, uh, you know, who's been helping me to shape. He's a businessman but he's been able to help me to form like, you know, obviously the perfect storm and, you know, we brought guys in from California that mimic just like Dominick, that were just a little faster than Dominick, and I knew that I wasn't even trying to touch his face because I knew that he was a hard hit. But I also knew that he would leave his legs a lot, you know, he, you can, you can push your body backwards but your legs will always be in that same position.

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:24

       Mm.

   13. HCHenry Cejudo8:25

       So the whole game plan since the beginning, this is why I felt so confident in that fight, through training was to continue, just keep taking his legs out as much as I can.

6. 8:33 – 11:55

   The calf-kick revolution: why low kicks suddenly became fight-changing

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:33

      Did the first round of your fight li- Mar- with Marlon Moraes sort of open your eyes to like how effective that can be in a fight?

   2. HCHenry Cejudo8:41

      Absolutely man, we saw it this weekend.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:43

      Yes.

   4. HCHenry Cejudo8:43

      We saw it this weekend, every bed- you mentioned it actually. Now, and I was, I was a little bummed out you mentioned it because a lot of people don't see those little details. Those calf kicks man, you start to take out that lead leg man, and you lose your mobility.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:55

      It's, it's insane how we've had all these years of MMA, right? 1993 the UFC starts, here we are in 2020 but it's really only been the last two years or so. I give credit to Benson Henderson, 'cause Benson Henderson was the first guy to really bring it to MMA.

   6. HCHenry Cejudo9:09

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:09

      But for whatever reason it wasn't as devastating when he was doing it. I don't know if he was doing it differently but there was no moment in a fight where he kicked someone's calf and you saw immediately them buckling. But you're seeing that now with these guys, like immediately one, two kicks and their leg is semi-useless.

   8. HCHenry Cejudo9:26

      Yeah, you look at somebody like Justin Gaethje.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:28

      Ah.

   10. HCHenry Cejudo9:28

       Justin Gaethje is... Man, if people don't catch onto that, if Khabib don't catch onto that, man he's in trouble.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:35

       He said-

   12. HCHenry Cejudo9:35

       And, and I know them both.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:36

       He said, "Why..." Like wide out in the open, he said, "When I fight Khabib," he goes, "I'm not even gonna try to kick him in his thighs, I'm just gonna kick him with that low calf kick."

   14. HCHenry Cejudo9:44

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:44

       He goes, "I'm gonna kick him four times." He goes, "After four times he's fucked."

   16. HCHenry Cejudo9:48

       Yeah. And he saw that, you watch the fight with him and, uh, Edson Barboza. And Edson Barboza's a, he's a high level striker but what really broke down Edson Barboza was what Justin did to him, he started whipping that, that, that calf kick. And actually right before I even fought Dominick, like I went on YouTube, like this is like maybe an hour before I went to the arena, and I just put like some Justin Gaethje highlights.

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:11

       Mm.

   18. HCHenry Cejudo10:11

       Just, just ruthless man, just really just swinging those kicks with bad intentions, almost just to murder you.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:17

       Mm.

   20. HCHenry Cejudo10:18

       And also the reason why I've been able to kick and do things like that 'cause I'm very confident with my take-down defense, you know. It's like Jon Jones, Jon Jones is so comfortable with this stand up because he knows he, his ability to stop Tony from taking him down-

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:31

       Yeah.

   22. HCHenry Cejudo10:31

       ... they're just so much higher.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:32

       Yeah.

   24. HCHenry Cejudo10:33

       And I feel that same way so I become a little more free with my kicks and punches-

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:36

       Mm.

   26. HCHenry Cejudo10:36

       ... and things of that matter.

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:38

       We saw two guys, uh, in one of the weight classes that you ruled over, Alex Perez and Jussier Formiga this past weekend, and Alex Perez stopped him with those low leg kicks. Two UFCS in a row we've seen guys get stopped with low leg kicks, it's crazy. It's crazy how prominent that, that, that technique has become.

   28. HCHenry Cejudo10:56

       It, it has, it has and I think, uh, we're gonna start seeing more of it.

   29. JRJoe Rogan11:00

       Mm-hmm.

   30. HCHenry Cejudo11:01

       So people are gonna have to start-
7. 11:55 – 16:20

   Marlon Moraes rematch story: injury, survival round, and pain tolerance as a weapon

   1. HCHenry Cejudo11:55

      (clears throat) Yeah, and I think, uh, a lot of that too, uh, Joe, and if, if I was... I know how to, I know when to fight and when to compete, and, uh, when Marlon, because first I went into it with a sprained ankle. This is why I had my like, my, uh, my ankle ta- tape, and actually Marlon's team had heard me scream on Tuesday night when all this happened so they knew I was somewhat injured, so I think their game plans since the beginning were-

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:19

      What, when did you scream?

   3. HCHenry Cejudo12:20

      I twisted my ankle between the UFC mats like, you know, they had some cheap tape in between the mats, when I stepped in like my, I, I-

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:26

      Oh, no.

   5. HCHenry Cejudo12:27

      ... rolled my ankle like bad. Bad. I have, uh, pictures of it's, it's like black and-

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:31

      I've seen it, I've seen it, yeah.

   7. HCHenry Cejudo12:32

      Yeah. Back and, black and blue, but I still wanted to fight so...You know, uh, um, so anyways, so, you know, I went in there hurt and whatnot. But I knew that that first round, and you said ... You mentioned it too during the fight. You says, "I think this might be a survival round for Henry." And that ... It absolutely was. So, I knew when to fight and when to compete, but I also knew that Marlon Marraone was throwing so much power. And I've gone ... I've gone against some of the best in the world. And I was like, "Dude, there's no way he's gonna be able to ma- maintain all that power for five rounds."

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:02

      Mm-hmm.

   9. HCHenry Cejudo13:02

      And I don't think this kid has any idea as a wrestler, 'cause he's never wrestled before, how much pain a guy like me can endure.

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       Mm-hmm.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo13:10

       So, he can say he was tired. He can say that, I don't know, something happened. But in reality, it's a mixture of two things. He blew his wad, and this guy, this guy here, could, uh, which is me, could take a lot of ... could take a lot of pain. I was with Mike not too long ago, and I asked him. I was like, I was like, I was like, "Hey, Mike." This is Mike Tyson. And I'm like, "What, what, what ... How would you describe Muhammad Ali, man? What was the difference between him and everybody else?" And he sat there and he thought about it. And he was like ... Which was cool to hear, man, because I, I can, I can put myself in, in those shoes. And he's like, he's like, "Man, Muhammad Ali was a guy that I've never seen before 'cause he could just endure so much pain."

   12. JRJoe Rogan13:51

       Mm-hmm.

   13. HCHenry Cejudo13:52

       "Like, the dude could just endure so much pain that it's almost like the average guy would fold, the average, uh, guy would probably get killed. But Ali just had a certain will to him that separated him from, from everybody else." It was th- the fact that he was able to endure pain. Like, you don't hear that too often.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:09

       It's true, though. You know, I mean, if you watch his fight with Ken Norton, you know, he fought most of the fight with a broken jaw.

   15. HCHenry Cejudo14:15

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:15

       Yeah, I mean, it's, it's-

   17. HCHenry Cejudo14:17

       This is heavyweights, too, man.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:18

       Oh, yeah, man. He fought big-

   19. HCHenry Cejudo14:18

       That's probably a five-pound jaw, too, huh?

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:21

       ... heavyweights, man. He fought big heavyweights.

   21. HCHenry Cejudo14:23

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:23

       I mean, George Foreman in his prime, Joe Frazier when, when Joe Frazier was in his prime.

   23. HCHenry Cejudo14:28

       Ah, same example, George Foreman-

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:31

       Mm-hmm.

   25. HCHenry Cejudo14:31

       ... blew his wad.

   26. JRJoe Rogan14:32

       Yep, yeah.

   27. HCHenry Cejudo14:32

       He had no idea how much, uh, pain Ali could endure.

   28. JRJoe Rogan14:36

       Yep.

   29. HCHenry Cejudo14:36

       Came back and won it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan14:36

       And how much movement Ali had going for him.
8. 16:20 – 19:42

   Origins of mental toughness: hardship, hunger, and the immigrant family grind

   1. HCHenry Cejudo16:20

      I think it's a mixture of both. And this is why sometimes I res- I respect more of, like, the upper middle class when they become champions, especially in a rough sport like wrestling or MMA. Is because I feel like, like, minorities or people that have gone through adversity, it's like, man, we, we have an advantage because it's, it's through the nurture side of things, how you were raised, man. Like, I, I'm one of, I'm one of seven kids, Joe, was raised by a single mother and, you know, I was the youngest, man. So, I was the kid that was picked on, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:49

      Hmm.

   3. HCHenry Cejudo16:49

      I was picked on by all ... Not only was I ... It's different when you're the smallest in an, in an immigrant family, you know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:55

      (laughs)

   5. HCHenry Cejudo16:55

      It's like th- you're the last one to eat. You're the la- You're gonna get beat up pretty much the majority of your childhood until you start getting to that age where you can kind of fight back.

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:02

      Hmm.

   7. HCHenry Cejudo17:03

      So, a lot of it, I guess, you owe through the, through the nature and nurture. Obviously, genetics, your mo- your mother and father, but also through the, through the nature side of it, how you were raised, man.

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:13

      Hmm.

   9. HCHenry Cejudo17:13

      How, how tough are you? Like, me as a kid growing up, like, I, I remember as a family, man, like, h- hot summer days would come around, like, we didn't eat, man. We didn't eat, man. Like, going to school was a place for us to, like ... At least for ... At least I could say. My family, they don't talk about that stuff so much. They're a little more private. But for me, it was like, dude, I get a chance to eat lunch and breakfast.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:32

       Well, that was a big problem with this COVID shit, where they shut schools down. And a lot of kids are in that same position where that was their opportunity to eat.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo17:40

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:41

       And some people just are not aware of that, that that's where a lot of people got their food, was at school.

   13. HCHenry Cejudo17:46

       Right, right. And I was one of those kids. So, I, if there's any of those kids or any of th- those guys that are adults now, it's like, hey, man, be happy for that 'cause I, I tell you what's made me has been adversity, man. It's going, it's understanding that, that grind, that grit, man-

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:00

       Hmm.

   15. HCHenry Cejudo18:01

       ... that, of being angry and things like that. If you're able to challenge that into something constructive-

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:07

       Yeah.

   17. HCHenry Cejudo18:07

       I mean, Joe, I'm, I'm a living example, man.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:09

       You re- you are.

   19. HCHenry Cejudo18:10

       Like, look at that flag behind you. Re- I represented that flag.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:13

       You did.

   21. HCHenry Cejudo18:14

       You know. And, uh, ironically, you know, my mom came to this country, you know, maybe not the most political way. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:22

       (laughs)

   23. HCHenry Cejudo18:22

       But she came to this country to live the American dream, and her American dream was just to make sure her kids-

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:26

       Well, it's a timing thing, you know, because my grandparents came over here too, but they came over here when it was o- it was easy. You just came over and you just signed some shit and you were in.

   25. HCHenry Cejudo18:37

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:37

       You know? In the, the early 1900s-... it just, uh, look, if that was how it was, today you wouldn't have the kind of imm- illegal immigration you have today. This country was founded on people coming over here because it was easy.

   27. HCHenry Cejudo18:51

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:52

       It was a better place to live, you could have a better life for your family. But there was no hoops to jump through. My grandparents just arrived. They just came here and moved in. I mean, they, they didn't-

   29. HCHenry Cejudo19:03

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:03

       ... they didn't have to take any, like, serious tests or do any crazy shit.
9. 19:42 – 1:05:09

   Immigration, citizenship, and the American dream—plus controversial success stories

   1. HCHenry Cejudo19:42

      And this is crazy, Joe, so I'm gonna mention something to you is like, my mom, both of my parents came here illegally. I'll just say it, man. You guys forgive me.

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:49

      (gasps)

   3. HCHenry Cejudo19:50

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:50

      Don't tell Trump. (laughs)

   5. HCHenry Cejudo19:53

      But my mom was granted her citizenship. So when I won the Olympics, my mom wasn't able to attend the 2000 Olympics due to her, due to her citizenship status. So then three years later after that, she was awarded her citizenship. But, uh, at the age of 20, so, you know, I stand on both fences, man. Like my dad, he was, uh, my bo- you know, my father, which, which I was just raised by my mother, he committed crimes in and out. He was in and outta jail here in California. He was actually deported. So, so I was a five-year-old kid, my dad was deported and never came back to America. So I, I, I understand both sides, man. Like, and I hate to-

   6. JRJoe Rogan20:26

      Mm.

   7. HCHenry Cejudo20:26

      ... say this, but it's true. It's, my dad came here as a foreigner, as, as an illegal, and he decided to break the law, man. And rightfully so, man. He should go back to his native country. My mother came here, you know, illegally, uh, um, you know, paid her fine, paid her taxes and whatnot, and then she was granted her citizenship in 2000, 2011, man. So I've been able to speak on this on, on behalf of Congress and kind of share my story to the world, man, because, man, I'm, it's almost like I become neutral.

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:58

      Mm.

   9. HCHenry Cejudo20:58

      You break the law, you go, man. You, you obey the law after a certain amount of time, man, maybe you might get granted as an American.

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:05

       Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a very frustrating thing for people who, uh, do want to have a better life for their family and they realize how difficult it is to come here. I fully understand illegal immigration. Uh, I fully understand wanting to keep out people that are criminals and people that are murderers and people that are in the drug trade. But if I was a person who was struggling to feed my family in South America or in Mexico or wherever, and I, I found out that I could sneak in and that I could do better, I would sneak in.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo21:37

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan21:37

       I would do it, 100%. And anybody says they wouldn't, you're lying.

   13. HCHenry Cejudo21:42

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan21:42

       You're lying. If you found out there was a place across the border where you could make five times as much and you could send money back and all you had to do is grind, this place where literally anybody can go from being, uh, a completely impoverished to being on top of the world, to being a millionaire. This is the place.

   15. HCHenry Cejudo22:00

       I think the best example, man, I hate to use the example 'cause he's, he's, he's burned a lot of people is, is Don King. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan22:07

       Well, Don King is maybe not the best example 'cause he was born in America, first of all, and he's a murderer be- because twice, twice over. You know, he's an example of a, a different time. And, you know, you talk to guys like Mike Tyson, he'll tell you that, "That guy played me and fucked me over."

   17. HCHenry Cejudo22:22

       Right, right. Yeah. Your, your problem is probably-

   18. JRJoe Rogan22:23

       He's a criminal.

   19. HCHenry Cejudo22:24

       ... maybe Don King... But what I'm saying is he's been able to come out of, you know, obviously he was a murderer, but he was able to somewhat make it in the sport that he desired-

   20. JRJoe Rogan22:32

       Yeah.

   21. HCHenry Cejudo22:33

       ... to be at that time. I'm not, you know, obviously I, we think, we all know he's a crook, but, man, it lets you know what America's able to do, man. Doesn't matter what you've done in life, you, you, you really do get not only a second, a third, but a fourth and a thousand opportunities.

   22. JRJoe Rogan22:47

       He's from a different era. I feel like if the internet was around... Well, you know, who knows? Maybe he'd be president today. (laughs)

   23. HCHenry Cejudo22:54

       Look at our president, man. This is why, this, dude, this is why, this is why, like, like, dude, Trump, Trump is the example of the American dream.

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:01

       In, in many ways, yeah. A, a faulty version of it, but yeah, in many ways. Yeah.

   25. HCHenry Cejudo23:06

       And I think the other person that I would-

   26. JRJoe Rogan23:08

       Actually, probably not the version of the American dream because his, his dad was rich and he gave him money. Like, he started off, his dad gave him millions of dollars to start businesses.

   27. HCHenry Cejudo23:17

       Right. But I mean, he turned that into billions too, right?

   28. JRJoe Rogan23:19

       He did, but he also went bankrupt a bunch of times too.

   29. HCHenry Cejudo23:21

       Yeah. You got me, Joe. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:23

       I mean, it's, it's, it's tricky. I mean, you can't deny the fact that the guy's been remarkably successful.
10. 1:05:09 – 1:14:18

    Bantamweight landscape after Cejudo: Sterling, O’Malley, Yan, Aldo, and matchmaking

    1. HCHenry Cejudo1:05:09

       Yeah, it's exciting, man. There's a lot of, there's a lot of good people out there. The resurrection too of Cody.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:14

       Dude, Cody looked so good. He didn't just look so good, he looked so fucking fast. So fast and technical. I mean, it was super impressive. But so was Aljamain Sterling.

    3. HCHenry Cejudo1:05:26

       Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:05:27

       Aljamain's ch- choking out Sandhagen like that and being able to do it in under two minutes, that's crazy.

    5. HCHenry Cejudo1:05:33

       Yeah, that is, man. That's so nice.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:05:35

       Crazy.

    7. HCHenry Cejudo1:05:35

       And especially the guy who he beat and how he beat him.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:38

       Dude.

    9. HCHenry Cejudo1:05:38

       Sandhagen, he's...

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:05:39

        Sandhagen's a beast.

    11. HCHenry Cejudo1:05:40

        Yeah. He's the, he's the real deal, man. He's the real deal.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:05:42

        That was the fight that I was thinking on the card was gonna be the most difficult to call.

    13. HCHenry Cejudo1:05:47

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:05:47

        I was like, "Who's gonna win that one? I don't know 'cause they're both so good." And Sandhagen's just surging, but Aljo just shut it all down, man. The way he did it, just so intense. Right? Like he hits a new level, you know? You know how sometimes a fighter will just hit a new level?

    15. HCHenry Cejudo1:06:04

        Mm-hmm.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:06:05

        Now when you think about him, you... It's probably hard for you because that's, that's your division.

    17. HCHenry Cejudo1:06:10

        Yeah, but I, again, his wrestling... I, I break people down, like even, even through their mentality. I, I study the... Fighters I'm gonna study, I study their mental game too and how they do interviews. And I'll give you two examples. And I, and I feel like, uh, I, I feel like Aljamain Sterling is, uh, almost the same thing as, as Demetrious Johnson, just in the concept of, uh, my wrestling. Just because of my wrestling, I feel extremely confident with my hands and I know he can't take me down. I know he won't take me down. So I know there's a game pack set in place where I can be a little more offensive with somebody-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:06:45

        Hmm.

    19. HCHenry Cejudo1:06:45

        ... like Aljamain Sterling. And actually, let's talk two... Let's talk about Sean O'Malley. I'm just... I just wanna break these dudes down real quick.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:06:50

        Okay, okay.

    21. HCHenry Cejudo1:06:51

        Even somebody like him, listen to his interviews. And you, you study these guys and you see where, where their mindset is and where their holes are gonna be. It's like, they had asked him, you know, "Who do you wanna..." They asked Sean O'Malley, "Who do you wanna fight next?" And he's like, "You know, I just wanna fight, you know, I just wanna fight the best strikers." Like, he never mentioned about, "I'll take anybody out. I'll take anybody in the top 10 or 15." Or whatever. 'Cause in my opinion, he hasn't really beat somebody that's like, "Okay, man. You're the real deal." Even though he did beat Weidland and he was a contender, but it's, it's been a long time. And I hear-

Episode duration: 2:15:46