JRE MMA Show #97 with Henry Cejudo

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Henry Cejudo! How are…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Henry Cejudo! How are you, sir?

   2. HCHenry Cejudo0:04

      Oh, I'm doing good, Joe.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      Good to see you, man.

   4. HCHenry Cejudo0:06

      Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      What does it feel like? What does it feel like having stepped back, you step away, you get to look at it from a fresh perspective. What does this feel like?

   6. HCHenry Cejudo0:16

      Uh, it, it feels good, man. It, it feels, uh... I think the biggest thing with me, Joe, is there's satisfaction in my life. You know what I'm saying? I've done so much in the sport, and I can compare myself a little bit to Daniel. You know? If Daniel would have beat Stipe Miocic and he would have retired on top, now, he, he, he could almost say he retired as a two-division world champ. And, uh, I don't feel like I have that chip on my shoulder. You know, as a wrestler, I, I retired from the Olympics at a very young age. You know, decided to come back three years later, but, you know what I mean? It was, it was already done, you know what I mean? I retired at the age of 21. And then now at the age of 33, I'm, I'm, I'm truly calling it quits unless there's, there's a couple fights that if I do come back.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:58

      I like that word unless.

   8. HCHenry Cejudo1:00

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00

      I like that word.

   10. HCHenry Cejudo1:02

       Yeah. And as you know, and, and, and, and a little bit it's... Before it was about the money a little bit with the UFC. And obviously, you know, everybody does have a price. But I think there's, there's, there's a fight that I, that I would really like in the UFC, and that would be against Oleksandr Volkanovski.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       Really?

   12. HCHenry Cejudo1:19

       Yeah. If they're-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       45?

   14. HCHenry Cejudo1:20

       At 45. If they were to give me an opportunity to go up and obviously be compensated, then that would be a fight that would really, uh, that would really wake me up in the morning and be like, "Hey, man, this is, this is a challenge. This is a whole new mountain." You know?

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       A chance to be a three-division world champion.

   16. HCHenry Cejudo1:36

       A chance to be a three-division world champion. As you know, a lot of people have counted me out against Demetrious, against TJ, against Marlon. That, and may- maybe it was you too, Joe.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:44

       No, no, no, no, no.

   18. HCHenry Cejudo1:45

       And, and, and I think that's what I love about it.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       You can't find any evidence of me counting you out, sir.

   20. HCHenry Cejudo1:50

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       Never.

   22. HCHenry Cejudo1:51

       So I love that. I love challenges. Since I was a kid, I knew I was, I knew I was different. I knew I was special. And, uh, these are the things-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:59

       What is it that you knew? Like, what, what separates you?

   24. HCHenry Cejudo2:03

       Oh my God, I think it's, I think it's, it's a couple things. If I was to explain it to you, like, what's, what's made me successful and... And I've seen it, you know, being at the Olympic Training Center, uh, as a high school kid and living out there for four years. That's actually where I met Daniel. And I was a 16-year-old kid when I first met these guys, and I was able to analyze a lot of the greats, like, you know, uh, Stephen Abbess, Daniel Cormier, a lot of the Olympic team. And, uh, what I've learned now at the age of 33, I learned that there's been two things that have separated me from, from the rest of the pack. It's, it's, it's two things with what I call heart and ability. And I was actually able to tell this story to, uh, to Chatri, you know, the, the founder and CEO of ONE FC. And, uh, you know, so it's two things. I call it heart and ability. What is your heart? Your heart is your passion, your will, your desire, your determination. Your heart is something that you're willing to suffer for in order to obtain. Now, the next one is ability. You know, ability is, is a gift that you have since, since, you know, it's a coordination. It's, it's something that you've repped over time where you become a master at it. And what happens is a lot of time, it's, I, I always tell people, "It's good to question one or the other." It's good to question the mind, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the heart or, or the ability. Because to be the 1% of the one percenters, like, both these things have to match. What happens is a lot of people have heart, but their ability is, like, way down here. You know, their ability doesn't match their heart, or their ability is up here and they're just a little lazy and can't really-

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:32

       Yeah.

   26. HCHenry Cejudo3:33

       ... put the... You know, because there is a separation between mind and body, and your job is to connect them both. And I, and I'm gonna use an example, uh, with Marlon Marais. You saw me getting my ass kicked. You saw me getting leg kicked, you know, from the first all the way to the second round. But I knew that I had it connected and make that transition. That was a combination of combining the heart and the ability. You know, so I was able to kind of... So what separated me, I'd say that, I think is being, being gifted through the ability and then just having a, a passion, a will, that's just second to none.

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:07

       There's a lot of other factors though, isn't there? There's like not just ability, it's also you have to be coached by someone who really knows what they're doing. It's, there's, there's so many guys out there that are really tough and they have will and they, they work out hard and they're in shape, but they just make technical mistakes, and they've never corrected those, those mistakes.

   28. HCHenry Cejudo4:26

       Yeah. Well, I think that also goes back on the ability p-... Uh, I, I would put that into the ability portion. The reason why is because you gotta put yourself in the right situations. Like, I didn't start winning until I let go of my coaches.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       Mm.

   30. HCHenry Cejudo4:40

       The first time I lost to Demetrious Johnson, it was, uh... Man, I, I... It was hard. A- and this sounds, this is gonna sound very crazy and cynical, but it was kind of hard to blame myself, man. (laughs)
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      Liston-

   2. HCHenry Cejudo15:00

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      ... in the history of the heavyweight division. You got, like ... Joe Frazier, uh, was a, a power puncher. Joe Louis was a sniper. He was an excellent power puncher. But George Foreman would lift people in the air.

   4. HCHenry Cejudo15:11

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:11

      He would hit people.

   6. HCHenry Cejudo15:12

      Crazy.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      Like, you ever see his first knockout with, uh, Joe Frazier?

   8. HCHenry Cejudo15:15

      Yeah, he had knocked him out, and then he fought Ali right after-

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      Yes.

   10. HCHenry Cejudo15:18

       ... he beat Frazier. Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:18

       When he fought Frazier, he literally lifted him in the air with a punch. That's how hard Joe Frazier would hit. And Ali, no, no hands up. Just holding-

   12. HCHenry Cejudo15:27

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       ... onto the ropes.

   14. HCHenry Cejudo15:28

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:28

       Doing this shit, sitting in front of him, leaning back doing this shit. It's crazy.

   16. HCHenry Cejudo15:32

       Yeah, but imagine how many of those punches. Even though he didn't get hit in the face-

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:35

       Oh.

   18. HCHenry Cejudo15:35

       ... imagine how many of those punches George Foreman was throwing at him, and then Ali was just laughing and talking to him.

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:41

       Yeah.

   20. HCHenry Cejudo15:41

       It's a cer- it's a certain mind power, man-

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:44

       It's a mind fuck.

   22. HCHenry Cejudo15:45

       ... that you cannot-

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       Yeah.

   24. HCHenry Cejudo15:47

       You just cannot replicate, man. Like, that's gotta be in you.

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:49

       Right. Or you have to have developed it over time and have complete confidence in it. You know, there's ... I, I think you can build mental toughness. I really, I really do. I think it ha- But I think you have to be very conscious about it, and I think it has to be done over time. Some people build mental toughness because of their environment or because of how they grew up, or some of the, the bad things they've faced in their life. And some people build mental toughness out of a decision. They make a decision to be mentally tough, and then f- they actually ... They cultivate that. They work on that.

   26. HCHenry Cejudo16:20

       I think it's a mixture of both. And this is why sometimes I res- I respect more of, like, the upper middle class when they become champions, especially in a rough sport like wrestling or MMA. Is because I feel like, like, minorities or people that have gone through adversity, it's like, man, we, we have an advantage because it's, it's through the nurture side of things, how you were raised, man. Like, I, I'm one of, I'm one of seven kids, Joe, was raised by a single mother and, you know, I was the youngest, man. So, I was the kid that was picked on, you know?

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       Hmm.

   28. HCHenry Cejudo16:49

       I was picked on by all ... Not only was I ... It's different when you're the smallest in an, in an immigrant family, you know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:55

       (laughs)

   30. HCHenry Cejudo16:55

       It's like th- you're the last one to eat. You're the la- You're gonna get beat up pretty much the majority of your childhood until you start getting to that age where you can kind of fight back.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   How old is he…

   1. HCHenry Cejudo30:00

      that I could see beating somebody like Jon Jones.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      How old is he now?

   3. HCHenry Cejudo30:03

      He's young. He's, uh, I wanna say he's 24, about to be 25.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      Interesting. And does he have any desire to fight?

   5. HCHenry Cejudo30:11

      He's mentioned it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:12

      Yeah?

   7. HCHenry Cejudo30:12

      He's mentioned it, but he's not-

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:14

      Does he have any experience in standup at all?

   9. HCHenry Cejudo30:16

      Uh, and that's the biggest thing, man. So he wouldn't... A guy like that, you would have to kind of... You would have to groom him properly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:22

       Yeah.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo30:22

       Like, you, you don't wanna stick a guy like that straight into MMA.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:25

       No.

   13. HCHenry Cejudo30:25

       Put him into boxing for at least a, a couple years. Have him, have him do this. 'Cause this is what I did. I boxed for three years. I did amateur boxing, I competed. I mean, I was... I didn't do any Jujitsu, none of that, because I was in love with the sport of b-boxing. My original goal-And this is crazy. This, this is ho- this is how crazy I think, Joe, is I was trying to make the Olympic team right after 2008.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:46

       For boxing?

   15. HCHenry Cejudo30:46

       For boxing.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:47

       Wow.

   17. HCHenry Cejudo30:47

       Yeah. B- And the reason why that g- that idea came up because Deontay Wilder did it within, I think it was four years-

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:53

       Hmm.

   19. HCHenry Cejudo30:53

       ... he was able to make-

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       Year and a half.

   21. HCHenry Cejudo30:55

       Is it... Was it eight-

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       Year and a half from boxing, wins a bronze medal in the Olympics.

   23. HCHenry Cejudo30:58

       Crazy, right?

   24. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       Dude.

   25. HCHenry Cejudo30:59

       I was like, "Dude, if that dude can do it-"

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       Dude.

   27. HCHenry Cejudo31:01

       "... give me a few years." (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       That's one of the... When he told me that, I'm like, "That is one of the craziest stories I've ever heard in my life."

   29. HCHenry Cejudo31:06

       Ridiculous.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       And then... But also extremely motivated because he had a very sick daughter and he realized that he couldn't play basketball, he wasn't going to school, couldn't play football. He was trying to think of ways to make money. He was driving a truck, I believe it was for Budweiser. He was driving a tr- he was delivering, delivering things.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   That's a champion's mind.…

   1. HCHenry Cejudo45:00

      just, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:01

      That's a champion's mind.

   3. HCHenry Cejudo45:02

      And even before ... So, I'm getting ready to walk out, I'm getting ready to fight Demetrious Johnson and I notice my team, like, they're still kinda like, you know, grabbing their fingers, you know. I'm pacing back and forth. And about a few hours before we went out to the arena, I, I talked to my team and I sat them here and I've been like ... And I sat my whole team down, just, like, almost like a dad. And I'm like, "Listen, man," I says, "I need you guys to trust me and have faith in me." The key plan to beating this dude ... Like, I know this dude's the greatest of all time, but I know what I've done in wrestling and I can replicate that what I've done in mixed martial arts, man. The only thing I'm gonna ask from you guys, is for you guys to be composed. For you guys to be composed, man. Don't, don't over yell, stay calm. Like, whatever happens in the fight, man, I just need you guys to bear with me and have faith in me, 'cause I'm gonna-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:48

      You got a coach of coaches.

   5. HCHenry Cejudo45:50

      Y- yeah, in some way, man.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:51

      (laughs)

   7. HCHenry Cejudo45:51

      And it's crazy to say that. So then right when I'm getting ready, check this out, Joe. So right when I'm getting ready to walk out, you know, right before I walk out first, 'cause I was gonna walk out and then Demetrious, and I still noticed my coach was still a little nervous and I looked at him, I says, "Hey, guys, remember, composure, man. Composure." Like, I was so ready for this dude. So then I go in there, I get kicked in the first 30 seconds, dude. My leg starts to wobble and so forth. You know, it was a survival round. I allow him to win, whatever. I think he won, I think he won the first, I won the second, he won the third. And then, uh, and then I believe I won the fourth and I won the fifth. And then after this whole thing, check this out, Joe, he, uh, um, Demetrious Johnson was on Ariel Helwani and then Ariel Helwani asked him, he's like, "Hey, Demetrious, just one last question." He was like, "What's one thing that surprised you about Henry?" And Demetrious Johnson said, "Well, I knew he was gonna be fast. I knew he was strong, but there's one thing that really did surprise me with Henry. It was the fact that he was so relaxed." You know? So it's these tactical things, and everybody that you fight is completely different.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:55

      Mm-hmm.

   9. HCHenry Cejudo46:55

      You know, you can have a certain word that you can put up here, but I knew that being composed and relaxed and not overreacting to Demetrious Johnson, that that would win me the fight for this fight. And there's a lot more to it.

   10. JRJoe Rogan47:06

       Mm-hmm.

   11. HCHenry Cejudo47:06

       It was me being, uh, knowing when to fight and knowing when to compete. It's me being a little theatrical, like, bumping my fists, like, conveying the judges. Those little things that you learn as, as a veteran of competition-

   12. JRJoe Rogan47:17

       Mm-hmm.

   13. HCHenry Cejudo47:17

       ... that you can even convey the judges. So there's even acting going on, Joe.

   14. JRJoe Rogan47:21

       Mm-hmm.

   15. HCHenry Cejudo47:22

       You know, I'm telling you guys all my secrets here. But in reality, there is, man. That's ... I'm just a winner. I, I just, the only thing I just know how to do is know how to win.

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:30

       How are you gonna step away from this? Come on, Henry! How are we gonna do this?

   17. HCHenry Cejudo47:35

       Show me the money! (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:37

       I'm, I'm torn. Uh, this ... Like I said in the beginning, man, I feel both ways. And one, I'm happy when a fighter gets out on top of the game like you. Like, one of my favorite boxing stories of all time is Marvin Hagler.

   19. HCHenry Cejudo47:49

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:49

       You know why? 'Cause he fought Sugar Ray Leonard. I think he got robbed to this day. I think he won the decision. They gave it to Sugar Ray and then he, he backed away. That's sage.

   21. HCHenry Cejudo47:59

       What you, what you got here? You smoking this show?

   22. JRJoe Rogan48:00

       No, bro. No, you light it up to kill the demons in the room.

   23. HCHenry Cejudo48:04

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:04

       This, uh, Native American lady gave me this.

   25. HCHenry Cejudo48:06

       Oh, yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:06

       She came in to talk to us about ... I got in this, uh, long kick of, uh, reading about Native American history.

   27. HCHenry Cejudo48:13

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:14

       Uh, they actually, um, a lot of them refer to themselves as American Indians, but, uh, and then this lady came in and was ... Educated me on a lot of the issues and brought me some sage to clear out all the bad spirits.

   29. HCHenry Cejudo48:25

       Yeah. No, I, I, I've, uh, I- I believe in a lot, I believe in a lot of these rituals and whatnot. Actually, not too long ago, I was actually with, uh, with Uncle Mike.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:32

       Yeah, you told me that.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:07:22

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      really good in the gym and they had like one or two matches or one or two fights and they just couldn't handle the pressure for whatever reason. They couldn't handle the, the, the things that went wrong and they just didn't want to do it anymore, but they could have been like a world-beater. You know? You, you... Everyone knows that guy.

   2. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:15

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

      Right?

   4. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:16

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

      And what is wrong with that guy? Well, that guy has got one aspect of your two-part thing that you were talking about, heart and ability, right? He's got one aspect.

   6. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:26

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

      He's got the ability, but it's this-

   8. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:28

      It's so hard.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:29

      He's, he's got a missing part-

   10. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:30

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:30

       ... and he doesn't want to look at it. 'Cause if he wanted to look at it, he would concentrate entirely on that-

   12. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:34

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       ... and he would get better at that. But it's hard.

   14. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:37

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

       It's hard to look at yourself. Psychedelics let you look at yourself. Like, "Hey, stupid."

   16. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:42

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:42

       "Look at you." Remember the last time I did DMT, there was a, a, a string of jokers, like jesters with the bells on, dancing in front of me going like this, "Fuck you."

   18. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:53

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

       Just openly mocking me. And I was like, "Oh, that must be what I need."

   20. HCHenry Cejudo1:00:58

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

       "I must need that." I'm like, "That's good. That's good to see."

   22. HCHenry Cejudo1:01:01

       Yeah. It's th- It's definitely a, it's definitely an ego check, man. Big time, dude.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       Dissolves it.

   24. HCHenry Cejudo1:01:06

       Man, like, like with Mike, like he loves the dude and-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

       Yeah.

   26. HCHenry Cejudo1:01:09

       ... he's, you know... He, he owes it to the, to the toad. You know what I'm saying? Like th- that's something that he, he, he said that's been a big reason why he's changed his life, you know. Mike wasn't doing so well until-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

       Yeah.

   28. HCHenry Cejudo1:01:19

       ... until he tried this and he... You know, he talks about it all the time on his podcast, so I mean it's-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

       It gives you an opportunity to shift.

   30. HCHenry Cejudo1:01:26

       It's qu- It's he- Heals drug addicts. I mean, drug addicts-

Episode duration: 2:15:46