JRE MMA Show #98 with Luke Thomas

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:02

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hello, Luke.

   3. LTLuke Thomas0:13

      Hi, Joe.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      We did it.

   5. LTLuke Thomas0:14

      We made it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      We finally made it happen.

   7. LTLuke Thomas0:15

      I wasn't sure it was gonna happen.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Yeah, well, uh, kudos to you for taking the chance to come here during the pandemic.

   9. LTLuke Thomas0:22

      I know. The all, uh, very oppressive pandemic. Well, we were supposed to do it in March.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       Yeah.

   11. LTLuke Thomas0:26

       And then, the world turned upside-down.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       Literally.

   13. LTLuke Thomas0:29

       Uh, (laughs) basically. But we figured out a way.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Yeah.

   15. LTLuke Thomas0:31

       Here we are.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       We're here. Yeah. It's, um ... Is it -- W- you said you did some traveling. What'd you do traveling for before this?

   17. LTLuke Thomas0:36

       So, I went to the Charlo Brothers double-header-

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Oh, okay.

   19. LTLuke Thomas0:38

       ... in Mohegan Sun, uh, wh- which was interesting, 'cause I got there early in the week and the casino was empty. Yeah, that bitch was slamming by Saturday night. I was not -- I had not been in crowds since March, right? So that was a little bit weird. But, uh ...

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       So, the casino's packed?

   21. LTLuke Thomas0:52

       It was packed. Yeah. Not like, not like, to the rafters, but crowded.

   22. NANarrator0:57

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       Do they have rules, like with masks, or-

   24. LTLuke Thomas0:59

       Well, it's, it's Native American territory; they make their rules. So, yes.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Yeah.

   26. LTLuke Thomas1:01

       I mean, they do have the normal protocol, like, there's, uh, hand sanitizing stations everywhere.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Mm-hmm.

   28. LTLuke Thomas1:06

       You have to wear a mask. But if you're at the table and you're drinking, they just pull the mask right down.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       (exhales)

   30. LTLuke Thomas1:11

       Yeah, and like ... And even if it wasn't that, it's like, can you imagine how fucking dirty those poker chips are?
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah, basically. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      they just strangled them.

   2. LTLuke Thomas15:01

      Yeah, basically.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      You know? Yeah.

   4. LTLuke Thomas15:02

      That's true. But we don't really see that anymore 'cause basically the word got out, like, "Eh."

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:07

      (laughs)

   6. LTLuke Thomas15:07

      "Maybe don't do that."

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:08

      But it's kind of crazy when you think about the history of martial arts, that martial arts were around for... Since the dawn of time, people have been trying to figure out better ways to fuck people up. Since they, they figured out language and figured out how to teach skills, they've been working on techniques.

   8. LTLuke Thomas15:22

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      And then not until 1993 did we really know what worked.

   10. LTLuke Thomas15:26

       You have a quote... I, I have an old DVD back when those really mattered. I bought it in, I wanna say 2004. So this must have been one of the early editions of, like, Ultimate Knockouts. You know, I think Phil Baroni fucking up Dave Benet was on the cover or something like that. And you had a quote and it was, um... Maybe it was, like, 2003. I think that's what it was. So I forget wh- maybe it was, like, one of the Miami shows, one of the early... Whatever it was-

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:49

       Hmm.

   12. LTLuke Thomas15:49

       ... you had a quote and it was, "Martial arts has evolved more in the last 20 years than it has in the last 2,000."

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       Yeah.

   14. LTLuke Thomas15:55

       Uh, with re- with the exception of weaponry, that is 1,000% true.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:00

       Yeah, 1,000% true.

   16. LTLuke Thomas16:00

       A million percent true.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       In weaponry, really. Like, s- guns. This is... You wanna have a weapon, guns and knives. You know, knife's been around forever. Swords, I guess. They used to be-

   18. LTLuke Thomas16:10

       Well, I just-

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:11

       ... better at swords.

   20. LTLuke Thomas16:11

       ... I don't know enough about hand-to-hand combat with weapons-

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Mm-hmm.

   22. LTLuke Thomas16:14

       ... to say one way or the other, but I just know as it relates to martial arts, the, uh, the fast forwarding that happened from '93 on b- relative to before it-

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Mm-hmm.

   24. LTLuke Thomas16:22

       ... it was this sort of slow process and then it hit overdrive.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:26

       You know what's really f- very satisfying to me is that when I first got involved in the UFC in 1997, it was when I was on Newsradio. And the people on Newsradio literally look at me like I was doing porn.

   26. LTLuke Thomas16:38

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       They were like, "What are you doing?"

   28. LTLuke Thomas16:40

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       Like, "Why are you doing this?" Like, "You're gonna ruin your career."

   30. LTLuke Thomas16:43

       Yeah.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   He's huge. …

   1. LTLuke Thomas30:00

      not some chump.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      He's huge.

   3. LTLuke Thomas30:01

      He's a Cuban boxer-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      Yeah.

   5. LTLuke Thomas30:03

      ... you know-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      World-class.

   7. LTLuke Thomas30:03

      ... who has great pedigree. One shot set his ass down.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      And he was winning the fight.

   9. LTLuke Thomas30:08

      Yep, exactly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:09

       Yeah. And all-

   11. LTLuke Thomas30:10

       He was winning the fight.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:10

       And all the sudden, blang.

   13. LTLuke Thomas30:12

       But if you look at the... Uh, my, my view on his power is that for straight rights, right, which is really what he basically throws or maybe a little bit overhandy-

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:19

       Mm-hmm.

   15. LTLuke Thomas30:19

       ... 'cause it's a little bit looping, that's one of the best, if not the best, right hands in all of boxing. If you're talking about full-on power punchers, though, I don't know that he's got the full repertoire. Like, is his uppercut with his right hand as good as his straight? I don't know that it is. You see a guy like Earnie Shavers?

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:33

       Right.

   17. LTLuke Thomas30:34

       Fuck, bro.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       Yeah.

   19. LTLuke Thomas30:35

       Go look up Earnie Shavers highlights on YouTube, and then s- and smoke some weed beforehand.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:39

       (laughs)

   21. LTLuke Thomas30:40

       You will literally laugh at what he does to men.

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       For sure.

   23. LTLuke Thomas30:43

       It's shocking to watch his power. And he has the full repertoire of it, you know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan30:46

       Yeah, a lot of fighters who fought him said he has the most powerful punch that they ever faced, a lot of fighters.

   25. LTLuke Thomas30:50

       Someone told me, I forget who it was, but they, uh, they got hit by Shavers, and then they felt it in the, um, in the roof of their foot.

   26. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       (laughs)

   27. LTLuke Thomas30:58

       The, the, what's the, what's the, like, the, the, the-

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       Arch?

   29. LTLuke Thomas31:00

       The arch. They felt it in the arch of their... It like radiated into the arch-

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       (laughs)
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   First round against Justin…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      what you see flawless victory after flawless victory. You can maybe make the argument that Khabib lost two rounds his entire career. Maybe the second round against Justin or, uh-

   2. LTLuke Thomas45:09

      First round against Justin you could argue.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      ... first round rather. Maybe first round rather against Justin and maybe the third round with Conor.

   4. LTLuke Thomas45:14

      That's right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:14

      That's it.

   6. LTLuke Thomas45:15

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:15

      And either one of those didn't get cut, didn't get dropped, didn't get hurt.

   8. LTLuke Thomas45:18

      Right. To never get cut and to never get dropped, I don't think folks understand what that means.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:21

      Crazy.

   10. LTLuke Thomas45:21

       In a sport filled with... It's not a scientific measurement per se, right? Who gets cut the most or something. But in a sport built on unpredictability-

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:29

       Yeah.

   12. LTLuke Thomas45:29

       ... on violence. Uh, you know, St-Pierre went to wrestling to get away from all of that in large, in large part and then to never experience that is like... It is shocking beyond description. I don't-

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:39

       Shocking.

   14. LTLuke Thomas45:40

       I don't know how to explain that to folks. It's a... But to your point, the thing about Khabib where he falls short is that it's just an inevitability. Like your run through 29 fights is the best run I've seen through 29 fights-

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Ever.

   16. LTLuke Thomas45:51

       ... ever.

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:51

       Ever.

   18. LTLuke Thomas45:51

       But I, you know, and Jon's not my best friend or anything but I just don't... That is the best total resume I've ever seen.

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:01

       Jon is the best resume.

   20. LTLuke Thomas46:03

       It's just, it's not... I mean, I know he got... He was, he was getting all salty on Twitter being like, "These fucking Khabib fans." It's like, dude, put the...

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:09

       Eh, he shouldn't do that.

   22. LTLuke Thomas46:10

       Well, he shouldn't do it, but here's my point to Jon. It's like, "Dude, put the keyboard down for just a second. Here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna go to heavyweight and you're gonna probably win. I mean, I don't know that's a guarantee but let's assume that you do. All of the conversa-... Everything that happens right now is just recency bias." And Khabib retired-

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:25

       Yeah.

   24. LTLuke Thomas46:25

       ... and his father died and it was this incredibly sad-

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:27

       Mm-hmm.

   26. LTLuke Thomas46:27

       ... and like yet-

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:28

       Yeah.

   28. LTLuke Thomas46:28

       ... inspiring moment. Let the fucking guy have his moment because when you have your moment, all of the con- the worm is going to turn.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:35

       Yeah.

   30. LTLuke Thomas46:35

       And then everyone's gonna be like, "Jon's the fucking greatest." It's he's going to get his, just not today at this moment.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:03:35

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. LTLuke Thomas1:00:00

      fuck-ups where, you know, he got into the car accident and everything else. And I probably said something he didn't like.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:05

      Mm-hmm.

   3. LTLuke Thomas1:00:05

      And I just, it's not, they don't tell you, you know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:08

      Yeah.

   5. LTLuke Thomas1:00:08

      They don't call you up and be like, "I'm really mad at you." They just wait till some other opportunity.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:12

      I, I had, I had a discussion with Jon where he was, uh, he was thinking, like, "Why did I go bad on him?" Like, "What was I saying?" Well, 'cause one of the things that I said that I, I speculated that maybe one of the reasons why he was behaving the way he was behaving was P- was, was CTE. And, uh, I, I still kind of stand by that. I think, um, one of the things that happens with CTE, and not that I think Jon should get out of the game, d- I'm not saying this at all, but I'm, I'm saying that there's a inevitable consequence of getting hit in the head, right? We've seen the video of Jon getting pulled over drunk driving and he says, "I forget a lot of things-"

   7. LTLuke Thomas1:00:47

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

      ... "I get hit in the head for a living." There, there's an inevitalcon- inevitable consequence of getting punched in the head where fighters experience some sort of negative effect of it, and some of them become very impulsive. It's just one of the side effects of, of head trauma. And e- even head trauma that's, like, acceptable, they get impulsive. They, they, they do wild shit. I mean, they do more wild shit.

   9. LTLuke Thomas1:01:12

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:12

       They have a harder, uh, it's harder for them to control their impulses.

   11. LTLuke Thomas1:01:16

       Well, in the case of Jon, I don't, um, as it relates to my interaction with him, and I hold no ill will, believe it or not, because frankly, I, I almost prefer that, you know? Because here's what ends up happening. Y- y- y- (laughs) So-

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:29

       If you get too friendly, then you, you could-

   13. LTLuke Thomas1:01:31

       Not, not even that, it's-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:32

       ... just hold back.

   15. LTLuke Thomas1:01:32

       A little bit, but that, that's, uh, that's less my issue. Like, I, I always tell fighters, like, "I'm not your friend, but I'm definitely not your enemy."

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:38

       Mm-hmm.

   17. LTLuke Thomas1:01:38

       Like, you have to understand that. Like, I, I mean this truly. You cannot work in MMA media, you cannot work in MMA media, it is not possible to do the job correctly, such as the job can be done correctly, which I'm not even sure that's even true anymore. But if, if you don't understand that the fighter doesn't owe you anything and that the fighter is, uh, uniquely disadvantaged relative to the power structures inside MMA, you cannot do the job effectively. You cannot. So to the extent that he gets mad, he's okay. Does he wanna answer? He doesn't, he does not, he does not have to answer my question. I'd have fucking preferred a different result, you know? (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:16

       Right. Than him saying he doesn't like you.

   19. LTLuke Thomas1:02:18

       Than him saying it at a press conference.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

       (laughs)

   21. LTLuke Thomas1:02:19

       I mean, I was like, "Jesus, all right, there's a better way to handle this." But, but at the end, it's like, you know, uh, I, I can't tell you how many fighters get mad at me and then won't talk.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:28

       Mm-hmm.

   23. LTLuke Thomas1:02:28

       And, like, I've had intermediaries reach out and be like, "Hey man," like, "what's the issue?" And they won't even tell their friend intermediaries, who are often coaches, fighters, blah, blah, blah. Dude, they're incredibly sensitive, and which I understand, uh, and they're incredibly, you know, they, they don't suffer shit gladly, which I also understand. But it's like, I've got a job to do. Y- you think I can watch somebody do the shit that Jon was doing at the time in his life and just, like, constantly re- reflexively defend all of it? It's not possible. I have to, I have a job to do. So if he doesn't like that, that's okay. But, um, you know, what, what am I... Like, if that causes a, a division, then that causes a division. There's nothing I can do about that, you know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:03:06

       Well, I think fighting is uniquely personal, right? It's not like calling, like, saying Bill Buckner's a loser because he let that ball go between his legs. It's a different thing. Like, when a fighter loses, it's, uh, I, I, I almost feel like they put themselves out there more than any other athlete and they deserve more respect than any other athlete. This is my personal opinion. Obviously I'm incredibly biased because that's the only sport that I've ever covered.

Episode duration: 3:30:54