Swapcast - Podcast On A Plane with John Dudley (Audio Only)

1. 0:00 – 1:51

   Cat Lady cocktail origin story and minibar chaos in Lanai

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      And we're rolling. (glass clinks) Cheers.

   2. JDJohn Dudley0:03

      Cheers.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      That's, that's only part of a Cat Lady. I mean-

   4. JDJohn Dudley0:07

      (sighs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      ... obviously.

   6. JDJohn Dudley0:08

      Yeah, that's just the one... Well, it's the critical part.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      It is. It is.

   8. JDJohn Dudley0:13

      Without... Without the red wine, the Cat Lady is not that ridiculous.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      (laughs)

   10. JDJohn Dudley0:16

       Right? It's just red wine-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       Yeah.

   12. JDJohn Dudley0:17

       It's like tequila and Red Bull.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       Yep.

   14. JDJohn Dudley0:19

       That's normal.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       Yeah.

   16. JDJohn Dudley0:20

       I mean, that's like Red Bull and vodka. It's not too crazy.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       Yeah.

   18. JDJohn Dudley0:23

       You pour the red wine in there and you're like, "What are you doing?" (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Now you're just desperate. (laughs) Now you're just, like, everyone shows up to a party with what they found in their parents' refrigerator-

   20. JDJohn Dudley0:33

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       ... and then the Cat Lady appears.

   22. JDJohn Dudley0:35

       Have you ever made one of those since then?

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Yeah, a lot.

   24. JDJohn Dudley0:39

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       I tur- (laughs) I turn people onto it all the time.

   26. JDJohn Dudley0:44

       That day was so ridiculous.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       I've gone into bars where people recognize me and then they... The waitress comes over and says, "The bartender would like to give you this Cat Lady." And I'm like-

   28. JDJohn Dudley0:55

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       ... "What?" (laughs) Yeah.

   30. JDJohn Dudley0:57

       For people who don't know what we're talking about, the Cat Lady was a drink that John invented two years ago in Lanai. Two years ago?
2. 1:51 – 3:07

   Why this Hawaii axis deer trip is a bowhunting “black belt” test

   1. JDJohn Dudley1:51

      So that was our first year doing this trip. And, uh, this year is our third. And man, it is... it is an aw-... First of all, it's an awesome place to get ready for, like, elk. To get ready-

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:05

      I think to get ready for anything.

   3. JDJohn Dudley2:07

      ... anything. Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:09

      Anything. If you can successfully... Especially if someone's wanting to know, like, where they raid. I remember last year when I elk hunted with Andy, I told Andy when we were in Montana (clears throat) that, "This time I'm gonna be limited on how much I can hunt with you. Like, we'll both go opposite directions." And then after, I think, two days, Andy said, "Okay, I realize now how much of my success before was hinging on you navigating me in these, like, small moments that I didn't really realize how important they were."

   5. JDJohn Dudley2:46

      Mm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:46

      And I think if you come here, and if you can do you, like, if your guide can get you close, but then you just say, "I'm gonna test only myself from here in."

   7. JDJohn Dudley2:58

      Mm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:58

      Like, from the 250-yard mark in, if you can get it done on an axis here, you can get anything done.

   9. JDJohn Dudley3:04

      Yeah, that's black belt bowhunting skills.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:07

       Do you agree?

3. 3:07 – 5:38

   Camo, movement, and knee pads: what actually matters in the field

   1. JDJohn Dudley3:07

      Yeah. I think that's black belt skills, especially if you're taking a larg-... long shot and you manage to crawl into place, 'cause a lot of it is crawling. If you plan on coming out here, folks, bring some kneepads. Luckily, our SitkaGear, uh, pants have built-in kneepads-

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:23

      Yep.

   3. JDJohn Dudley3:24

      ... which are excellent. But if you, if you, if you use a different kind of camo, first of all, you shouldn't.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:29

      (laughs)

   5. JDJohn Dudley3:30

      Second of all, if you do use (laughs) a different kind of camo, better get some kneepads.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:33

      Just the pattern itself looked amazing.

   7. JDJohn Dudley3:35

      Amazing.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:36

      Like, when we were glassing across, when I would glass and look at you or when I'd look back, you blended... I mean, it worked really well. The s-

   9. JDJohn Dudley3:44

      It worked great everywhere.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       The Subalpine is-

   11. JDJohn Dudley3:46

       Yes.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:46

       ... the bomb.

   13. JDJohn Dudley3:47

       It's the bomb. I've used a lot of different camo trying different stuff out. And, you know, I really love, uh, First Lite. They make good stuff. Um, but Sitka's the best. They're the best. They, they just take everything above and beyond. Everything is one step better. Everything-

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:02

       You know what's funny? They won't, they won't come out and publicly say that Subalpine is effective for, like, white tail or turkeys, because the gore... the gore methodology, uh, I don't know if I said that right, but they have a protocol of having their tests to prove things or be able to make a statement are very vigorous-

   15. JDJohn Dudley4:28

       Mm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:28

       ... for gore. So because they've never truly tested Subalpine to a turkey's vision, they won't come out and publicly say that it's effective for turkeys, even though I can tell you it definitely is. Early-season white tails, uh, midway through the season for white tails, 100% effective, but what it was truly tested for was Subalpine. It was, like, tested for hunting big game. And so, they'll say that, but I can tell you, if there's any type of foliage that has a hint of green in it, it is effective.

   17. JDJohn Dudley5:01

       It just breaks everything up so good. Like, when we were in Utah hunting elk-

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:05

       Oh, gosh.

   19. JDJohn Dudley5:06

       ... you just blend right in, man. You just vanish.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:08

       I would look back a few times and I could- I'd... I couldn't tell where you were. In the... Even in those poplars-

   21. JDJohn Dudley5:13

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:13

       ... where there was some white and black speckle, it looked amazing.

   23. JDJohn Dudley5:17

       Yeah, it's a perfect breakup pattern. You just... You don't see the, the, the human form.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:22

       For here, what matters most is movement and, I guess, what the environment... Ha ha.

   25. JDJohn Dudley5:32

       Cheers.

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:32

       Now we have a... something a little different. (glasses clinking)

   27. JDJohn Dudley5:35

       Mm. Margarita. (clears throat)

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:37

       Yep, that'll work.

4. 5:38 – 9:01

   HECS suit and the ‘animals don’t notice you’ experiences

   1. JDJohn Dudley5:38

      Yeah, the, um, movement is big, but I became an even bigger believer in the hex suit while I was here. When we had that bird fly by-

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:46

      (laughs)

   3. JDJohn Dudley5:46

      ... and just land right behind us, I was like, "Dude, what is wrong with this bird?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:50

      He was right in our-

   5. JDJohn Dudley5:51

      He had no idea we were there.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:51

      Yeah, he was right in our business.

   7. JDJohn Dudley5:53

      Yeah, we were just sitting there and this bird just flew by and landed right next to us and started tweeting away.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:00

      You-

   9. JDJohn Dudley6:00

      Letting us know.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:01

       I think you said, you go-... what's this thing doing? And I just looked at you. I'm like, "That's what things do with the HECS. Squirrels jump on my shoulders-"

   11. JDJohn Dudley6:10

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:10

       ... birds, like, try to land on me.

   13. JDJohn Dudley6:12

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:12

       What'll wig you out is when owls, when I'm in a white-tail stand and owls will come in and be, like, cupped, gonna land on your shoulder. If it's a small bird, I'll let 'em do it. If it's a squirrel, I'm like, "Get on there, dude. I'll, I'll do that." When it's got talons, I'm like, "Whoa," like, (laughs) "Back, back off, bro." But I've had several owls just kinda come flying in. They cup up and they're just gonna land on my shoulder. And I, I have to just wimp out and just-

   15. JDJohn Dudley6:40

       So the HECS suit, for people who don't know, H-E-C-S, the HECS suit breaks up, it, it, it blocks your electrical signal, right? The electromagnetic signal that your body gives off.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       Yep. Yep.

   17. JDJohn Dudley6:54

       And it's been proven to work on fish and it's been proven to work on what other animals?

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:00

       Fish is tested for sure. Birds, for sure, because migratory birds have had tons of, tons of, like, uh, I think, I sh- shouldn't say federal, but, like, granted tests to track migratory birds and how they see, and it's proven that birds do see in electronic fields.

   19. JDJohn Dudley7:19

       Mm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:19

       So for birds, they say that it's i- incredibly effective because, like, that's why they've got all that footage being able to crawl out on geese and people shooting turkeys from just s- sitting next to nothing, just, you know, being able to do it. But for those, it's really important that your hands and your face mask and everything are fully covered with the HECS, where honestly, I'm going with the major muscle groups for my stuff. I wear the top and the bottom for small game and big game. And I'm a believer, man, especially-

   21. JDJohn Dudley7:54

       Some people are still, still skeptical though, right?

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:56

       Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, some people say, "Hey, it, you know, it seems like it, you're selling snake oil." And I'm like, "Uh, I get it. I get it, you know." Uh, "I, I understand what you're saying. All I can tell you, tell you is, like, with bears, they're predatory animals. With bears, my encounters with them has just been weird, you know, how well it works. But then if my camera guy doesn't have it, it seems like I'm picked off more."

   23. JDJohn Dudley8:23

       Mm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:23

       So I definitely feel like when I've been in my one-on-one situations and I'm fully, you know, fully clothed in it, I wear it all the time. I mean, I'd, I guess it'd be easy for me not to, but I always do. I mean, I've, I'm a believer in it, for sure.

   25. JDJohn Dudley8:39

       Yeah. I became more of a believer this trip. I felt like there was too many moments too where deer were staring at us and they just didn't know what the hell we were.

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:49

       When you-

   27. JDJohn Dudley8:49

       Whereas, like, some of the times in the past when I wasn't wearing it, the same sort of situation, the deer would start blowing, and then they would take off. They'd be like, "Hey!"

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:56

       (laughs)

   29. JDJohn Dudley8:57

       And they'd take off.

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       Yeah.
5. 9:01 – 10:51

   The airplane podcast reveal and the crawl-in to a tiny tree with deer everywhere

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:01

      When we got up to your deer and where we, you know, where kind of his final resting place where we took pictures and stuff, did you ever look back to the tree that we were... For those of you who wanna know, we're actually on our flight back. This is a, a flight podcast. (laughs) Everyone around is like, "What's going on?" Nah, no, we're just podcasting folks. Um, did you look back at that tree and see how small that tree really was, dude?

   2. JDJohn Dudley9:30

      Yeah, it was pretty small.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:31

      I've... Imagine me and Joe Rogan tucked up aga- next to kind of a bonsai tree. (laughs) .

   4. JDJohn Dudley9:40

      (laughs) And we had to crawl.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:41

      Yeah.

   6. JDJohn Dudley9:41

      I mean, about 80, 90 yards to get to it.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:44

      80 or 90 yards, crawling, and we get to this tree and I, I kinda grab the base of the tree and I'm trying to shimmy up the tree just enough, and I figured there was gonna be a few axis there, and that's the thing with axis. When they're bedded you might see one or two that's standing up at the time, but once I got there, I looked back at you and I'm, like, giving the signal, like, "Dude, like, don't crawl, but, like, on your belly, scoot. Like, just use your fingertips and your nails, and, like, pull yourself to me."

   8. JDJohn Dudley10:19

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:19

      'Cause we w-... The f- the, our cover was probably only two feet tall, and with you, with a backpack on, that was about all you could spare, was just laying flat to your stomach.

   10. JDJohn Dudley10:30

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:31

       And crawl up to me, and then you got behind me and used me as a blocker to come up. And how many deer, how many deer were within 80 yards of us?

   12. JDJohn Dudley10:39

       It was a lot.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:41

       (laughs)

   14. JDJohn Dudley10:41

       It was a lot. And-

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:41

       They were everywhere.

   16. JDJohn Dudley10:42

       ... when I shot the deer, that's when we really realized how many there were.

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:45

       Oh, geez.

   18. JDJohn Dudley10:46

       'Cause a lot of 'em popped up.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:48

       Yeah.

   20. JDJohn Dudley10:49

       (coughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:49

       Tons.

   22. JDJohn Dudley10:50

       It was pretty crazy.

6. 10:51 – 14:18

   Breaking down John’s shot: Silverback release, form, and what went right

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:51

      So let's talk about your shot first.

   2. JDJohn Dudley10:53

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:54

      'Cause that was, honestly, that was the highlight of the whole trip for me, was just hearing that sound. We had the sun hard at our back. I couldn't really see. I was trying to film, so I couldn't really see where your arrow went. I just could see, I could see that broadhead, like, (laughs) right past my shoulder, and I was looking at the tip of your broadhead and seeing how still it was. I was, like, referencing it on something that was behind it. And you were just stable, and I could see your broadhead coming back, back, back, back on the rest, so I knew you were just pulling on that Silverback just slow, slow and sweet. And as soon as I heard it go deer, I just looked right at the axis and I heard that sound that just, I knew it had found the honey spot.

   4. JDJohn Dudley11:42

      Well, I committed 100% to the Silverback last year when, um, when I hunted here. I was using, um, I was using a thumb trigger, and which is great, but these deer are so skittish and these moments are so, so adrenaline filled, I felt like... I made a decision. I'm like, "Look, I shoot super accurate with the Silverback. Why won't I hunt with it? Like, what am I thinking? Am I thinking that I need to make it go off quick? Like, what am I thinking? Eh, I'm just gonna go to 100% Silverback." And I'm super glad that I did because...I shot my, uh, elk last year in Utah with a Silverback. I shot that amazing elk at Tejon Ranch, which is like the furthest I've ever shot an animal, 75 yards. Perfect shot, in the heart. Silverback. I practice with a Silverback, I don't practice with anything else.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:34

      Yeah.

   6. JDJohn Dudley12:35

      Sometimes I'll practice with a nock to it, but I use the Silverback so much I don't even think about punching the trigger.

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:41

      Yeah.

   8. JDJohn Dudley12:41

      I don't even think about it. I just put my thumb there and I pull through it the same way I do with i- w- with a Silverback.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:46

      That's how it is. People don't realize that there's this window when you have one thing that you really like and you feel comfortable with, and you feel like you have control over-

   10. JDJohn Dudley12:55

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:55

       ... which, let's just say it's the nock to it, or a, or an index finger wrist wrap release. And then, yeah, you learn with the Silverback and you realize, okay, this is a good training aid. And you're kind of afraid to lose that last little bit of control that you have. But there's that window that if you can push through that, you forget about that feeling and you just realize this i- like, y- you almost realize there is no other option.

   12. JDJohn Dudley13:25

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:25

       This is just what I shoot with.

   14. JDJohn Dudley13:27

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:27

       This is all I use every day.

   16. JDJohn Dudley13:29

       Plus, I can make it go off in a second or two seconds.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:32

       Once you learn it, right?

   18. JDJohn Dudley13:33

       Yeah. It's all in, it's all in the scapula. It's all in that-

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:37

       Preload.

   20. JDJohn Dudley13:37

       Yeah, it's all in that muscle in the middle of the back, the rhomboids. That's, it's all in that. And I, I, I shoot with it so much. You know, I, I have that archery range at my studio and I'm just constantly shooting. I get there before work, I shoot. After work, I shoot. I'm just constantly shooting, constantly shooting with that thing. So my body knows exactly what to do. That was one of the most satisfying things about this trip, like even the shots that I missed, and I missed a couple shots because these animals are so fast and we took some, you know, long shots, and one of them was 80-something yards and the arrow was perfectly on track for the boiler room.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:12

       It was.

   22. JDJohn Dudley14:13

       But that thing saw the arrow or heard the arrow and just like, boink, see ya.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:17

       I-

   24. JDJohn Dudley14:17

       They're so fast.

7. 14:18 – 19:35

   Why axis deer “jump the string”: arrow noise, aim points, and broadhead choices

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:18

      The one thing that's different with Axis is I don't think Axis try to locate a sound and then decide whether or not that sound is dangerous or not. With most animals, what I found is the first reaction is to pinpoint where a foreign sound came from and once they're locked onto that, if there's anything following that, then now they, they kind of react, like a fight or flight thing. So I've had, and I can see this a lot in video footage, like with elk where they'll hear the bow and they'll turn and look to where a bow went off, but if they don't hear something coming, they just stand there and the arrow comes in. And I really feel like that with, with the four fletch setups we have, I feel like the arrows are quieter than what we've shot in the past, personally.

   2. JDJohn Dudley15:07

      Well definitely the one I shot last year, because last year here I was trying to use a fixed blade and it was a fixed blade with some holes in it.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      Yeah.

   4. JDJohn Dudley15:15

      And it was like a whistle of death. (laughs) It was (whistles)

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      Well, on some of those longer shots, the, the deer would turn, but you could see them look up-

   6. JDJohn Dudley15:23

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:23

      ... like on the footage.

   8. JDJohn Dudley15:25

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:25

      These, they didn't do that.

   10. JDJohn Dudley15:26

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:26

       They just looked our way. They never looked up to like that sound that they could hear coming in.

   12. JDJohn Dudley15:32

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       So that's why I think the, the projectile was good. But these things are just, they're keyed in. And we talked to, uh, our buddies, uh, Sloan from Yeti and Cole Kramer were over on the main island hunting Axis too.

   14. JDJohn Dudley15:46

       They're on Maui.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:47

       Oh yeah, they're on Maui hunting Axis, and I asked them how they were doing and they're like, "Dude, shot a few does, missed a few, lost a few. These things are just crazy how fast they react and move." And you say it's just, you think it's from tigers.

   16. JDJohn Dudley16:06

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       You think it's-

   18. JDJohn Dudley16:07

       They evolved to get away from tigers.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:09

       It's probably what it is.

   20. JDJohn Dudley16:10

       Yeah, they're, they're from India. They were given to King Kamehameha I think in the 1800s but th- they're just an insanely fast animal. They're so much faster. You think of mule deer as being fast, like mule deer are drunk and on pills compared to these things.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       (laughs) Yeah.

   22. JDJohn Dudley16:25

       (laughs) Really, they're like, they're so slow. I mean-

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       I think these are, these are as fast as a highly pressured south Texas whitetail that's coming to a feeder-

   24. JDJohn Dudley16:36

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       ... that's kind of like-

   26. JDJohn Dudley16:37

       Jumpy.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       ... twitching-

   28. JDJohn Dudley16:39

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:39

       ... the whole time it's there and you kind of have to aim... I got to the point where when I was out with Cam, Cam asked me where I aimed. I said, "Dude, my pin was sitting in the corner pocket of the leg and the body." Like I literally, every time I drew back, I put my, the pin I wanted on the back of its front leg, I s- followed that back leg up until it touched the bottom of the body and I was pulling right there.

   30. JDJohn Dudley17:10

       Mm-hmm.
8. 19:35 – 22:03

   Bow tech talk: Hoyt models, grip torque, and tuning around human errors

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:35

      They were all like ke- they knew what was up. You shot the RX3.

   2. JDJohn Dudley19:40

      Love it. It's so- first, it was so quiet. It's so quiet, it's so-

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:44

      Definitely quieter than RX1.

   4. JDJohn Dudley19:46

      Yeah, which I loved.

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:47

      Yeah.

   6. JDJohn Dudley19:47

      I love the RX1, but this is better. I mean, those Hoyt engineers, man, they know what they're doing.

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:53

      (laughs) Yeah.

   8. JDJohn Dudley19:53

      This thing is super quiet and super accurate, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:56

      Did Cam shoot an RX or did he shoot a Helix?

   10. JDJohn Dudley19:59

       He shot a Helix.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       Oh, we both-

   12. JDJohn Dudley20:00

       He likes the Helix.

   13. JRJoe Rogan20:00

       Okay, that's right. I forgot which one he was shooting. I'm- I shot the Helix too. I'm gonna switch back to, um, to an RX3, I think, for elk season. People ask me all the time why I li- you know, why one over the other? I like to shoot them all because I know people at different price ranges. Um, I- I- I don't think one's more accurate than the other. I really like the fact that I can change my grips out on my-

   14. JDJohn Dudley20:27

       On the aluminum.

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:27

       ... on the aluminum riser.

   16. JDJohn Dudley20:28

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:30

       Uh, I- if I was honest, I would say I would like it if Hoyt went back to what they used to do on the carbon risers, where-

   18. JDJohn Dudley20:36

       Why would they do that?

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:38

       They wanted you to be able to have the ability to shift the new grip left or right, depending on how your natural grip is turning the bow so that you can adjust it to have like perfect alignment of the arrow down the center shot of the riser. Uh, for you, because obviously we've been shooting together for years, you don't have natural torque in- in your front hand, so I didn't have to shift it anyway. Your arrow and everything is lined up right down the pipe, like right down the stabilizer. Your pin sits right on the outside edge of your shaft. You don't have any torque in the- in the riser at all. You don't even need to move it. But I think some people have the- a natural ability to kind of grab the handle, so they wanted you to be able to remove that screw, lift the grip off, and you can move this aluminum plate left or right underneath the plastic grip to kind of compensate for your natural torque. Personally, I'd rather just not have the torque.

   20. JDJohn Dudley21:34

       Yeah, learn how to not shoot that way.

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:36

       (laughs) Yeah.

   22. JDJohn Dudley21:37

       That's probably better.

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:38

       Yeah, it's like a- a Band-Aid, so maybe the-

   24. JDJohn Dudley21:40

       But I did love those knock-on elk plates.

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:43

       Yeah.

   26. JDJohn Dudley21:43

       I love those.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:44

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JDJohn Dudley21:44

       The one- I- I- I love the way it feels in the hand too. It's extra grippy, even when you're sweaty. It feels like it really sits in your hand well.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:52

       I've always said less- less riser in your hand is better. You know, less- less in your hand gives you less ability to torque what you're holding onto.

   30. JDJohn Dudley22:03

       Mm-hmm.

9. 22:03 – 25:20

   Pool mechanics as a mirror of archery: relaxation, technique, and planning ahead

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:03

      Is it the same for pool cues?

   2. JDJohn Dudley22:06

      It depends. Uh, some people like a thin grip pool cue, and, uh, that's what they prefer. I have big hands, and I like a fat grip pool cue because there's less movement in my hand when I- when I hold a pool cue (clears throat) , when it's sitting in my hand, I want- I want my hand to be like, just dead. I don't ever wanna- I don't grip the cue.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:27

      Really?

   4. JDJohn Dudley22:27

      I- like have a death grip.

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:28

      So your elbow's almost like an upside down-

   6. JDJohn Dudley22:30

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:30

      ... pendulum.

   8. JDJohn Dudley22:30

      My cue sits on- like, you know in Spider-Man, hits his web?

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:34

      Yeah.

   10. JDJohn Dudley22:35

       Those two fingers where Spider-Man uses-

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:37

       His non-cog fingers.

   12. JDJohn Dudley22:37

       ... that's how I hold, that's how I hold my cue.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:39

       Never, never noticed.

   14. JDJohn Dudley22:39

       My cue sits on those fingers and this- so the idea is that it's just like you're almost throwing the cue at- at the, uh, at the ball. So you're throwing the cue at the cue ball so that, uh, you- you're kind of like letting the weight of the cue and the- the swing of the arm do the work. You're not- you're not death gripping it and jerking it and punching it. You don't ever want to punch the cue ball.

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:05

       Yeah, like me. (laughs)

   16. JDJohn Dudley23:06

       You want it to be- you wanna- yeah, you wanna be relaxed. The whole idea is to be relaxed. When I'm playing at my very best, I'm barely gripping the cue and I'm letting the natural texture of the wrap sit in my hand. And that's one of the reasons why a lot of times I like to use a wrapless cue, which is just wood with, you know, a- an enamel or, I mean, some slacker ca- cover on it. And then I- I put, uh, beeswax on the lacquer, and that's my favorite 'cause it just sits in the hand, it's tacky, and I don't have to grip it at all, and I just let the cue do all the work. And it's like the more you can relax, and the more I play, like if I play for a few hours, then it gets real relaxed, and then I- I could really just sort of like gently move my arm and let the cue ball do all- let the cue stick move the cue ball and do all the work.

   17. JRJoe Rogan23:52

       You're the same with archery. Me, it's like I can come out of the gate and feel really relaxed and feel effortless as I shoot. And then as I fatigue, I obviously feel like I'm putting more effort in. When I'm ready to pack up, you're just starting to loosen up, and it's the same with- with pool. (laughs)

   18. JDJohn Dudley24:09

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:10

       You can play pool forever.

   20. JDJohn Dudley24:11

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan24:11

       I mean, I've had to just be like, "Hey, dude, I'm done."

   22. JDJohn Dudley24:14

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan24:14

       (laughs) You're like, "I'm just getting loosened up."

   24. JDJohn Dudley24:17

       Yeah, I get loosened up about eight hours in.

   25. JRJoe Rogan24:21

       (laughs)

   26. JDJohn Dudley24:21

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan24:21

       With- with pool, the guys that look like they're not putting any effort in, is that when they're-... with archery, when guys look super comfortable, like, you almost feel like the bow isn't real. You watch them, you look at them at full draw, and you realize, it doesn't even look like they're holding 60 pound, like-

   28. JDJohn Dudley24:42

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan24:43

       ... the- they look ... Everything is in line, everything's efficient.

   30. JDJohn Dudley24:47

       Yeah.
10. 25:20 – 43:25

    Writing comedy like training a skill: rebuilding acts, testing jokes, and ‘dangerous’ ideas

    1. JRJoe Rogan25:20

       ... one thing you said the other day that I really, really liked, and I don't know how we got on the subject. It might have been yesterday. But we were talking about, um, we were talking about how sometimes in sport, for me, it's eas- it always seems easy to forget the basics. Like, I forget ... And, and all of a sudden, I'll be coaching someone new or something and I realize they're asking this question that's like, "Oh, man, yeah, I'm- I'm taking for granted this basic."

    2. JDJohn Dudley25:49

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan25:49

       But for you, you said with comedy, you never do that, which I think has to make you better at it. Because you-

    4. JDJohn Dudley25:57

       Ye-

    5. JRJoe Rogan25:57

       And actually with my School of Knock, what I do to myself every year in December, every year in December, I'm like, "Okay, whatever I've done this past year doesn't matter, I'm gonna wipe the slate clean, I'm gonna start with shooting enough arrows to where I can- I can build some stamina practicing, and then I'm just gonna focus on my fundamentals one week at a time-"

    6. JDJohn Dudley26:20

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan26:21

       "... to try to back up." It's not as b- it's not going back as far in the basics as I think what you were talking about, but it's still, it's still a really cool, like, training aspect.

    8. JDJohn Dudley26:33

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan26:33

       Isn't it?

    10. JDJohn Dudley26:34

        Yeah. Well, what we're talking about, what you're saying is every two years, I write a whole new act, and I start ... I'm like a beginner again. I'm a beginner who knows how to do comedy, but I don't have any new material. My material is ... Or I don't have any old material. My tu- material's all new, so I have to figure out how to make it work, and all these people are paying to see me. So I- it ... I have to work really hard at it, so I can't be lazy and I can't take it for granted. And it's like I become almost like a beginner again every two years. So I-

    11. JRJoe Rogan27:04

        Every year lately-

    12. JDJohn Dudley27:06

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan27:06

        ... because of the Netflix special.

    14. JDJohn Dudley27:07

        Yeah. Well, it's two y- yeah, it's a- it's- it's two years in between specials. Every special c- ... I did one in 2014, 2016, 2018. So I'm on like a two-year schedule.

    15. JRJoe Rogan27:21

        Okay.

    16. JDJohn Dudley27:21

        It seems to me to be the right way to do it.

    17. JRJoe Rogan27:22

        Yeah.

    18. JDJohn Dudley27:23

        Because-

    19. JRJoe Rogan27:23

        You can polish.

    20. JDJohn Dudley27:24

        Yeah, you can get- you get ... But y- what's most important is when that special comes out, like my last one came out in October of last year, um, of 2018, when that special's out, that material's dead.

    21. JRJoe Rogan27:37

        Yeah.

    22. JDJohn Dudley27:37

        It's gone. So-

    23. JRJoe Rogan27:38

        You can't say it again.

    24. JDJohn Dudley27:38

        ... then I move to the new material, and then I have to write, and I have to-

    25. JRJoe Rogan27:42

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JDJohn Dudley27:42

        So I have all these people coming to see me, so there's no way you're ever relaxed or too comfortable or e- n- you can't take it for granted. You have to always be nervous and always be on the ball and always be working hard, and always be concentrating on the fundamentals of comedy like the making sure that you're using the economy of words, making sure that you're saying things in a way that makes sense to people, and the best way to get it to people, and sneak in the punchlines where they don't see them coming, and have premises that are good and address those premises in a way that's like the most smooth way to do it. And so it's ... It requires a lot of thinking about comedy, a lot- a lot.

    27. JRJoe Rogan28:24

        It seems like you're in the perfect place, too, being so close to the store.

    28. JDJohn Dudley28:27

        Oh, yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan28:28

        For you to be able to go The Comedy Store, I mean, can you think of something that morning and be like, "I wanna try this."

    30. JDJohn Dudley28:33

        Yeah, I think if it's-
11. 43:25 – 45:56

    Authenticity, social media, and why podcasts outcompete produced media

    1. JRJoe Rogan43:25

       I think anything you have interest in, you 100% come across as authentic. And that's what, that's what people say they like about me is because they-

    2. JDJohn Dudley43:35

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan43:35

       ... they say, "I feel like you are 100% authentic about your passion for archery."

    4. JDJohn Dudley43:41

       Sure, yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan43:42

       And honestly, I feel like social media helps accelerate that-

    6. JDJohn Dudley43:46

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan43:46

       ... because people start to not have only this filter that the, the TV network allows people to see-

    8. JDJohn Dudley43:55

       Right.

    9. JRJoe Rogan43:55

       ... or that sometimes you or I don't have control on what that filter is. We might say like, "Hey, man, that's not me. Can you like-"

    10. JDJohn Dudley44:02

        Right, right, right, right.

    11. JRJoe Rogan44:02

        "... I'd really like if you did it like this." They're like, "No." You know, "We've done some polls and this is r- really what we want." Which is what, which is why I left my network.

    12. JDJohn Dudley44:11

        Yes.

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:11

        Because I realized if I go onto a live feed, people 100% get exactly how I feel.

    14. JDJohn Dudley44:19

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan44:19

        And I think the more that they experience that, th- their radars of, people's natural radars of who's legit and who's not, they're sensitive.

    16. JDJohn Dudley44:31

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan44:31

        And I think it's the, it's the best thing in the world for people like me or you or Cam or any of these people that we know within their fields where they're, they're real.

    18. JDJohn Dudley44:45

        Right.

    19. JRJoe Rogan44:45

        They're like real people within those fields or An- you know, Andy's a great example too. He's like, he's almost breaking the mold of what a lot of Navy SEALS are doing.

    20. JDJohn Dudley44:56

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan44:56

        Uh, is it fair to say that?

    22. JDJohn Dudley44:58

        In some ways, yeah. Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan44:58

        Because so many, so many like ride their past to, you know, to try to, you know, build something. Whereas Andy's almost, you almost have to drag it out of him.

    24. JDJohn Dudley45:10

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JRJoe Rogan45:11

        You know, you almost have to say like, "No, dude. You've done some really cool shit. We need to talk about this."

    26. JDJohn Dudley45:17

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan45:17

        And he's trying to say, "Well, there's more to me than that."

    28. JDJohn Dudley45:20

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JRJoe Rogan45:20

        "You know, there's more to me than that." But I think once people really see that honesty come forward, that's what people are grasping for. They're like, "I really want, I really like that person that I'm seeing. That's what I want more of."

    30. JDJohn Dudley45:33

        Yeah, you're not produced, you know? When someone watches a, a, a knock-on, uh-
12. 45:56 – 1:03:55

    Your phone is listening: targeted ads, surveillance paranoia, and darkly funny hypotheticals

    1. JRJoe Rogan45:56

       Yup. I saw today, it's f- it's weird how your phone, your phone's a spy. I got, today I got ads pulled up in my Instagram about travel coolers, dude.

    2. JDJohn Dudley46:10

       Whoa, 'cause we were talking about coolers?

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       Yeah, last night at dinner.

    4. JDJohn Dudley46:13

       Wow.

    5. JRJoe Rogan46:14

       How we were gonna get our meat home. Isn't that-

    6. JDJohn Dudley46:16

       That's crazy.

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:16

       ... isn't it?

    8. JDJohn Dudley46:17

       That's so weird.

    9. JRJoe Rogan46:18

       It's crazy, crazy.

    10. JDJohn Dudley46:19

        So it's listening to us?

    11. JRJoe Rogan46:20

        It's listening for sure. Yeah, it's-

    12. JDJohn Dudley46:23

        But who's, who can tell us what's happening? I wanna know. Like, what is your ph- I need to get someone on that tells me what the hell your phone is listening to, 'cause that does happen to people all the time, where all of a sudden their, their Google feed, their newsfeed-

    13. JRJoe Rogan46:37

        If-

    14. JDJohn Dudley46:37

        ... has ads in it.

    15. JRJoe Rogan46:38

        ... if that happens, we get really high before they come on just so you can-

    16. JDJohn Dudley46:42

        Hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan46:42

        ... really s- dude, where so you can really trip out.

    18. JDJohn Dudley46:44

        Yeah, yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:45

        'Cause you'll be like, "Whoa."

    20. JDJohn Dudley46:48

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan46:48

        (laughs) You'll be deep into that.

    22. JDJohn Dudley46:50

        I need to find out. I need to find out how they're doing it and what they're doing, 'cause that's weird. Like, what if you were like planning a murder and you had your phone on you-

    23. JRJoe Rogan46:56

        Damn.

    24. JDJohn Dudley46:57

        ... and then all of a sudden the FBI knocks-

    25. JRJoe Rogan46:58

        So-

    26. JDJohn Dudley46:58

        ... on your door. And you're like, "No, no, no. I'm writing a book on murder. And I'm planning it out with a friend to try to pretend that we were planning a murder so I could see how people talk when they're planning a murder."

    27. JRJoe Rogan47:11

        (laughs)

    28. JDJohn Dudley47:11

        "So, me and my friend who's an actor-"

    29. JRJoe Rogan47:12

        Well, that's a coverup.

    30. JDJohn Dudley47:13

        But if you did do that-
13. 1:03:55 – 1:12:25

    Technique is everything: jiu-jitsu learning, Danaher systems, drilling vs rolling

    1. JDJohn Dudley1:03:55

       Yeah. It's, uh, you know, there's levels. There's levels to everything. And, uh, one of the things that I learned, uh, very early on, when I became obsessed with martial arts, was how important technique is.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:04:07

       Yeah.

    3. JDJohn Dudley1:04:07

       To generate power.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:04:09

       It's-

    5. JDJohn Dudley1:04:09

       To generate real power and to be a, to do things correctly.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:04:13

       Can you name one field where that's not important?

    7. JDJohn Dudley1:04:16

       I can't.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:04:16

       The principles?

    9. JDJohn Dudley1:04:17

       No. I can't. Comedy. It's, it's with everything. Like Joey Diaz, when you see Joey on stage, he's so wild and crazy and his comedy is so, it's so out there. You think maybe there's no technique to it, but he's one of the best technicians-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:04:34

        He knows exactly-

    11. JDJohn Dudley1:04:34

        He knows exactly-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:04:36

        ... what he-

    13. JDJohn Dudley1:04:36

        ... exactly what he's doing.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:04:36

        ... does.

    15. JDJohn Dudley1:04:36

        But he's such an amazing technician because he has the best economy of words.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:04:42

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JDJohn Dudley1:04:42

        Like, here's a Joey Diaz joke that I love. He goes, "I like transvestites. They cook, they clean, you can beat on them every once in a while. The cops come. Who they gonna believe, me or some dude with a wig and a black eye?"

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:04:54

        (laughs)

    19. JDJohn Dudley1:04:54

        (laughs) Those jokes, (laughs) like, that's a great bit and the, the jokes come at you before you know where he's going.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:05:02

        Yeah.

    21. JDJohn Dudley1:05:02

        The cops come. Who are they gonna believe, me or some dude with a wig and a black eye?

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:05:08

        (laughs)

    23. JDJohn Dudley1:05:08

        That's a brilliant joke. But it's that economy of words. And there's a, there's l- that's like a skill. If, when you see a comic and they have too many words before they get to the punchline, either that's a new joke and they're trying to figure out how to say it, which I do when I have new jokes. I'll oftentime go back and listen to old recordings of a joke that I'm doing, like, three months later, where I've got it down. I'll go back and listen to how I started doing it three months ago and it's embarrassing. It's terrible because there's so many extra words in it-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:37

        Yeah.

    25. JDJohn Dudley1:05:37

        ... and it's so meandering. It's just-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:05:38

        Yeah.

    27. JDJohn Dudley1:05:39

        ... the, so there's technique to everything, man, everything. But in martial arts, the consequences of having poor technique are the, the most devastating 'cause you're gonna get hit or you're gonna-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:05:52

        Yeah.

    29. JDJohn Dudley1:05:52

        ... get strangled or you're gonna get-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:05:53

        Yeah.
14. 1:12:25 – 1:20:08

    Cooking what you kill: Traeger pellet grills, reverse sear, and tech-enabled brisket

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:12:25

       Yeah, I get it. Well, the last thing we should talk about is probably where we started this trip, grilling, 'cause you and I are both passionate about cooking food.

    2. JDJohn Dudley1:12:35

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:12:36

       We eat what we kill, right?

    4. JDJohn Dudley1:12:39

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:12:39

       And you were, you were on a different grill path completely.

    6. JDJohn Dudley1:12:45

       (laughs)

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:12:45

       Weren't you? I mean, I kept telling you, like, "Dude, I don't know a lot about this Traeger, but man, it's, like, changed my life."

    8. JDJohn Dudley1:12:55

       Well, I was doing things very hot.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:12:57

       Yep.

    10. JDJohn Dudley1:12:57

        And, uh, I was, uh, I had a Yoder that has, uh, a direct heat, um, element and the direct heat aspect of it was, uh, you'd have these grill grates that you'd put down and he would turn up the flames very, very, very high, and I would cook on these grill grates and he'd put these grill marks-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:13:17

        Yep.

    12. JDJohn Dudley1:13:17

        ... on the, uh, on, on the meat. It was drying out the meat, though, and until Chad, uh, Whiskey Bent BBQ on-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:13:24

        Yeah, Chad Ward.

    14. JDJohn Dudley1:13:25

        Chad Ward on the Instagram-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:13:27

        Hallo.

    16. JDJohn Dudley1:13:27

        Hallo. Until he explained it to me, the idea of the reverse sear, cooking things low and slow and then searing them at the end, I really didn't get it. And then once I just started cooking like that, I'm like, "Oh, okay."I mean, I get mad when I go to a restaurant, a good restaurant and the- they cook the steak bad.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:13:45

        Isn't that a bummer?

    18. JDJohn Dudley1:13:46

        It's a bummer.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:13:46

        We talked about that.

    20. JDJohn Dudley1:13:47

        It happens all the time.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:13:48

        Dude, what'd we cook night one, when Sharon and I flew in? Did we cook cowboy steaks? Ribeyes?

    22. JDJohn Dudley1:13:56

        Yeah, we cooked some ribeyes.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:13:56

        Bone i- bone-in ribeyes?

    24. JDJohn Dudley1:13:57

        Got some ribeyes, yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:13:58

        We ate those at the house. You've got ... So you've got the new Ironwood.

    26. JDJohn Dudley1:14:03

        Yes.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:14:03

        It's- it's like- it's not the highest end Traeger. I w- it's the next one i- in line.

    28. JDJohn Dudley1:14:09

        Yeah, it's- it's not that expensive.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:14:10

        But for someone that's buying one in a store?

    30. JDJohn Dudley1:14:13

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:25:41