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Why I couldn't build Jev at OpenAI — Diogo Almeida, TypeSafe Co-founder & CEO

From helping build instruction-following models at OpenAI to spending years trying to answer why AI can solve extraordinarily hard problems yet still automate so little real work, Diogo Almeida is betting that the next wave of AI won’t look like chat. In this episode, the TypeSafe founder and CEO joins swyx days after Jev’s breakout launch to explain System One Models: machine-native AI designed for code, calibrated decisions, reliability, and intelligence per dollar. We go deep on Jev and RLCD, the failure modes of RLHF, why TypeSafe refuses to optimize around public benchmarks, and why Diogo believes data and the right task matter more than simply scaling compute. Diogo also explains why he left OpenAI, why refusals and safety alignment become fundamentally different problems when AI is infrastructure, how Jev changes the architecture of coding agents, why AI should eventually disappear into the background of software, and why even with a billion dollars, he wouldn’t pre-train a model from scratch. We discuss: • Why AI can solve extraordinarily hard problems but still fail to automate basic work • What System One Models are and why Jev is built for software rather than chat • RLHF, mode collapse, calibration, and the hidden costs of optimizing for human preferences • Why refusals become a problem when AI is buried inside software dependencies • Why TypeSafe rejects public benchmarks and optimizes for intelligence per dollar • The “bitterest lesson”: why the right task and the right data can matter more than compute • Why TypeSafe thinks of itself as a data lab rather than a model lab • RLCD vs. RLHF and RLVR as fundamentally different North Stars for AI • Why reliability and robustness matter more than simple determinism • Jev’s programming primitives and how intelligence maps into software control flow • Why developers should decompose AI workflows into many small, measurable decisions • How structured state replaces giant prompts and system messages • Why Diogo thinks AI should eventually disappear into the background of software • The “inverse SaaS-pocalypse” and how AI could supercharge existing software • System One vs. System Two intelligence and the limits of reasoning models • Dark data, computer use, real-time intelligence, and Jev’s biggest early use cases • Why Jev could reshape coding agents built around a single-model architecture • Why Diogo says he wouldn’t pre-train even if you gave him a billion dollars • The OpenAI journey that led to TypeSafe and why he thinks most neo-labs are approaching AI incorrectly • Coding agents beyond the KV cache, shared state, sub-agents, and the future of multi-agent software — Diogo Almeida • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/diogomda/ • X: https://x.com/CompleteSkeptic Timestamps 00:00:00 Intro 00:01:29 Jev Launch Week and the AI Economic Revolution 00:04:19 What Is Jev? System One Models and Programmable AI 00:07:23 RLHF, Mode Collapse, Calibration, and Yann LeCun 00:11:58 Programmatic AI, Refusals, and Safety Alignment 00:18:50 Why TypeSafe Rejects Public Benchmarks 00:22:12 The Bitterest Lesson: Data, Compute, and the Right Task 00:26:28 RLCD vs. RLHF and RLVR 00:30:11 Why Powerful AI Still Hasn’t Automated the Economy 00:41:24 Reliability, Robustness, and Determinism 00:49:40 Model Versioning, LTS, Speed, and Intelligence per Dollar 00:55:33 Inside Jev’s API and Programming Primitives 00:59:57 How to Build with Jev: Structure, Decomposition, and Small Decisions 01:19:57 The Inverse SaaS-pocalypse and AI Disappearing into Software 01:34:50 Computer Use, Dark Data, and Jev’s Biggest Use Cases 01:40:17 How Jev Could Reshape Coding Agents 01:42:29 AI Safety, Frontier Pacing, and the Limits of RLVR 01:49:32 Why Diogo Wouldn’t Pre-Train with $1 Billion 01:56:48 The OpenAI Story Behind TypeSafe 02:03:10 Why Diogo Thinks Most Neo-Labs Are Getting AI Wrong 02:09:29 Coding Agents Beyond the KV Cache and the Multi-Agent Future

Diogo Almeidaguest
Sep 21, 20262h 22mWatch on YouTube ↗

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At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Jev’s bet: programmable System One models built for reliable software automation

  1. Diogo Almeida says Jev represents a new class of “System One” programmable models built for software consumption and optimized for intelligence per dollar.
  2. He argues common post-training approaches (especially RLHF) create mode collapse and miscalibration that undermine reliability, which he views as the main blocker to AI automating economically valuable work.
  3. He claims refusals and “safety alignment” policies that follow a lab’s instructions are acceptable for consumer chat products but are unacceptable for APIs embedded as dependencies in software systems.
  4. He explains why TypeSafe rejects public benchmarks in favor of workflow-specific evaluation, internal eval discipline, and a long-term focus on moving “nines” of reliability.
  5. He outlines how Jev’s API primitives (choice, score, null) map to programming constructs and why developers should structure inputs/outputs and decompose tasks into many small calls.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Jev is positioned as “machine-native” AI designed for code to consume.

He frames Jev as a “large programmable” System One model meant to be consumed by code rather than by humans chatting, and says TypeSafe is optimizing the model and its interfaces for software integration.

RLHF-style tuning can warp model behavior in ways that break software reliability.

He argues RLHF pushes models toward mode dropping/mode collapse and harms calibration, creating behavior that looks good in chat but is unreliable for decision-making inside programs.

Refusals are treated as fundamentally incompatible with being a reliable API component.

He says refusals are acceptable-ish in a chatbot but “a type error” in an API dependency because they can cause stochastic breakage deep inside downstream systems where users may not even know what model is involved.

They reject public benchmarks and prioritize real workflow evaluation and trust.

He says TypeSafe is “extremely anti-public benchmarks,” calling them gameable and misaligned with measuring the “je ne sais quoi” of intelligence; he emphasizes workflow-specific evaluation and internal truth-seeking eval discipline.

TypeSafe centers data and task design, not user-data training, to achieve robustness.

He describes TypeSafe as a “data lab,” emphasizing that capability comes primarily from data and picking the right “task/North Star,” and says their data is synthetic and intentionally not trained on users’ data to avoid bias and overfitting to the present.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Like, I feel like the entire AI field is like one of those, like, carnival house of mirrors, and everyone is just insane and saying the weirdest stuff that doesn't make sense.

— Diogo Almeida

Refusal is just like obviously a type error.

— Diogo Almeida

Like would I prefer that our stuff is not used to kill people? Obviously. Would I prefer it's used for like all sorts of like great stuff in the world? Obviously. Will I put my thumb in the scale for that? Yes. Would, will I do it at the technological layer? Absolutely not, because that will fracture the intelligence.

— Diogo Almeida

I believe that in the long run, it needs to be vibes and trust until you put it into a workflow and evaluate it for that workflow and measure it and have your own sense of, like, how it does on the exact workflow that matters.

— Diogo Almeida

If you gave me a billion dollars, I wouldn't pre-train.

— Diogo Almeida

System One models and “machine-native” programmable AIRLHF mode collapse, calibration, and reliabilityRefusals, safety alignment, and APIs vs chat productsAnti-public-benchmark stance and workflow-specific evaluationData-centric capability development and synthetic dataReliability vs robustness vs determinism; “nines” mindsetJev API primitives: choice, score, null; structured inputs and decomposition

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

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