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Category creation and brand building | Barbra Gago (Pando, Miro, Greenhouse, Culture Amp)

Barbra Gago is the founder and CEO of Pando, where she’s democratizing career progression. Previously she worked as the Chief Marketing Officer and Global Head of Marketing at Miro, where she helped create an entirely new software category for the space, and also served as VP of Marketing at Greenhouse, where she led go-to-market strategy. In today’s episode, we cover three main topics: category creation, branding and rebranding, and building opinionated software. Barbra discusses how she was able to rebrand Miro and launch a whole new category—and why her attempt to do that at Greenhouse failed. We cover the benefits of building your own category, and when it makes sense to do so and when it doesn’t. She also shares the importance of getting to know your users, why a great brand is informed by its values, and why Pando is built in an opinionated way. Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/category-creation-and-brand-building-barbra-gago-pando-miro-greenhouse-culture-amp/#transcript — Where to find Barbra Gago: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/barbragago • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barbragago • Pando: https://www.pando.com/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible: • AssemblyAI: https://www.assemblyai.com/?utm_source=lennyspodcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=oct27 • Stytch: https://stytch.com/lenny • Vanta: https://vanta.com/lenny — Referenced: • G2: https://g2.com/ • Software Advice: https://www.softwareadvice.com/ • Marketo: https://www.marketo.com/ • HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/ • Gainsight: https://www.gainsight.com/ • Greenhouse: https://www.greenhouse.io/ • Miro: https://miro.com/ • Gartner: https://www.gartner.com/ • Forrester: https://www.forrester.com/research/product-management/ • Oyster: https://www.oysterhr.com/ • Deel: https://www.deel.com/ • Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/ • Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kick-Ass-Humanity/dp/1250235375 • The Art of War: https://www.amazon.com/Art-War-Sun-Tzu/dp/1590302257 • Kafka on the Shore: https://www.amazon.com/Kafka-Shore-Haruki-Murakami/dp/0099458322 • Cautionary Tales podcast: https://timharford.com/articles/cautionarytales/ • The Sandman on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81150303 • Nancy Duarte on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancyduarte/ • Al Gore’s TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/al_gore_the_new_urgency_of_climate_change — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Barbra’s background (05:06) Barbra’s startup (06:07) Category creation vs. winning in existing categories (07:49) What is an applicant tracking system, and why have they been problematic? (09:57) What is a product category? (13:06) Examples of product categories (14:05) Greenhouse as an example of failed category creation (16:46) How Miro successfully created a new category (18:37) Utilizing user feedback (21:15) The mechanics of category creation (21:22) How to advocate for your new category with directory sites (25:53) The middle ground between new and existing categories (29:37) When is it time to rebrand? (38:51) How to create a lasting, global brand (41:18) How values inform brands (43:13) Insights into developing company values (44:24) The elements of a brand (46:37) What is opinionated software? (47:57) The benefits of opinionated software, and why Barbra’s software is opinionated (51:23) Lightning round — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Barbra GagoguestLenny Rachitskyhost
Oct 26, 202255mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

How Opinionated Brands Create New B2B Categories and Endure Globally

  1. Barbra Gago shares detailed lessons from helping build and reposition major B2B SaaS companies like Miro, Greenhouse, and Culture Amp, focusing on category creation, rebranding, and brand building.
  2. She explains when it makes sense to create a new product category versus elevating an existing one, and walks through the practical mechanics of doing so with analysts, directories, PR, and content.
  3. Barbra also breaks down how and when to rebrand, how to design a brand system rooted in company values, and why authentic, opinionated software can drive better outcomes and defensibility.
  4. Finally, she connects these ideas to her current startup, Pando, an “employee progression” platform aiming to replace traditional performance reviews with a more transparent, structured approach.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Validate and name your category with the market, not just internally.

Use analyst firms (Gartner, Forrester), review sites (G2, Software Advice), and customer language to define and validate a category; a category isn’t ‘real’ until external platforms and competitors recognize it.

Only pursue category creation when budget, differentiation, and timing align.

If buyers already have a budget and mental model for an existing category (like ATS), it’s often more effective to elevate that category’s perceived value than to fight it with a new label that doesn’t stick.

Category creation is a long, content-heavy, PR-heavy investment.

You need sustained thought leadership, education content, and PR to convince buyers a new problem area exists and deserves budget—alongside working closely with directories to formally define the new space.

You can straddle old and new categories during a transition.

Successful companies like Miro and Pando sell into existing, understood categories (e.g., online whiteboard, performance management) while simultaneously seeding a bigger vision category (visual collaboration, employee progression) for the long term.

Rebrand early enough that your name can grow with your ambition.

If your current name is too literal or limiting for your future vision (e.g., RealtimeBoard), rebrand before you’ve over-invested in brand equity—ideally once you have product-market fit but before you’re very large.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Ultimately, you're not building a category until there is competition.

Barbra Gago

Instead of spending the time and money to build a new category, we were going to spend the time and money to elevate the value of this category.

Barbra Gago

When you're generating a new category, you're also needing to educate buyers that there is a category that they can now budget for and why they should allocate budget for that.

Barbra Gago

The product and the brand are the main things that will get customers and keep them.

Barbra Gago

We’re taking on the big goal of killing performance reviews.

Barbra Gago

What a product category is and how B2B software categories are definedWhen to create a new category vs. win an existing oneTactics and mechanics of category creation (analysts, directories, PR, content)Rebranding: timing, process, and company-wide executionFoundations of strong, authentic brand building and brand systemsRole of company values in shaping brand and product experienceOpinionated software: enforcing best practices and driving better behavior

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