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Making time for what matters | Jake Knapp and John Zeratsky (Authors of Make Time, Character VC)

Jake Knapp and John Zeratsky are bestselling authors of the books Sprint and Make Time. They have helped more than 300 teams design new products and bring them to market, including those at YouTube, Gusto, One Medical Group, and Slack. Jake and JZ are co-founders of the venture capital firm Character, where they support startups with capital and sprints. Previously, they were operating partners at Google Ventures and, before that, design leaders at Google, where JZ worked on Google Ads and YouTube and Jake helped build Gmail and co-founded Google Meet. In our conversation, we discuss: • “Busy bandwagon” and “infinity pools” • Creating one “highlight” each day • Their four-part framework for productivity • How to use the calendar to design your day • How creating friction can help you avoid distractions • Tips on creating a distraction-free phone • Strategies for managing email and distractions • The importance of reflecting on the day and making time for meaningful work • Design sprints — Brought to you by: • Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers: https://www.sidebar.com/lenny • Whimsical—The iterative product workspace: https://whimsical.com/lenny • WorkOS—The modern API for auth and user identity: https://workos.com/lenny Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-time-for-what-matters-jake Where to find Jake Knapp: • X: https://twitter.com/jakek • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-knapp/ • Website: https://jakeknapp.com/ Where to find John Zeratsky: • X: https://twitter.com/jazer • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnzeratsky/ • Website: https://johnzeratsky.com/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) About Jake and John (04:10) Recording the audiobook for Make Time (06:06) What people often get wrong when trying to become more productive (11:24) The busy bandwagon and infinity pools (15:22) Real talk: Jake and John’s productivity levels (20:10) The four-part framework for getting more done: Highlight, Laser, Energize, Reflect (25:15) Step 1: Highlight (28:08) Designing your day with a calendar (30:52) The Groundhog Day mentality (35:10) Tactical advice for implementing the highlight method (39:30) An example of a failed highlight (48:08) Step 2: Laser (51:12) Creating intentional friction to avoid distractions (57:28) Curating a distraction-free phone (01:07:58) Resetting expectations and slowing your inbox (01:14:51) Systems over willpower (01:18:14) Managing email distractions (01:18:49) Step 3: Energize (01:22:05) Step 4: Reflect (01:26:30) Introduction to Sprint Referenced: • Make Time: How to Focus on What Matters Every Day: https://www.amazon.com/Make-Time-Focus-Matters-Every/dp/0525572422 • Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days: https://www.amazon.com/Sprint-audiobook/dp/B019R2DQIY • Make Time blog: https://maketime.blog/ • Make Time blog on X: https://twitter.com/maketimeblog • Character: https://www.character.vc/ • Google Ventures: https://www.gv.com/ • Character Labs: https://www.character.vc/labs • Strategies for becoming less distracted and improving focus | Nir Eyal (author of Indistractable and Hooked): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/strategies-for-becoming-less-distracted-and-improving-focus-nir-eyal-author-of-indistractable-and/ • Groundhog Day on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Groundhog-Day-Bill-Murray/dp/B000SP1SH6 • Reclaim.ai: https://reclaim.ai/ • Feed Blocker for LinkedIn: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/feed-blocker-for-linkedin/eikaafmldiioljlilngpogcepiedpenf • The Lord of the Rings: https://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0544003411 • MagSafe charger: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-MHXH3AM-A-MagSafe-Charger/dp/B08L5NP6NG/ • Nanit app: https://www.nanit.com/pages/nanit-app • Arianna Huffington’s Phone Bed Charging Station: https://www.amazon.com/Arianna-Huffingtons-Charging-Station-Walnut/dp/B0799ZG1LY • Cell Phone Lock Box with Timer: https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Android-Self-Discipline-Achieve-Addiction/dp/B0CG8V4YG3?th=1 • The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich: https://www.amazon.com/4-Hour-Workweek-Escape-Live-Anywhere/dp/0307465357 • The Economist: https://www.economist.com/ • Odysseus: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Odysseus • Mailman: https://www.mailmanhq.com/ • Future: https://www.future.co/ • Notion: https://www.notion.so/ • Miro: https://miro.com/ Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jake KnappguestLenny RachitskyhostJohn Zeratskyguest
Feb 10, 20241h 35mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Redesigning Your Day: Make Time For One Truly Meaningful Highlight

  1. Authors and investors Jake Knapp and John Zeratsky discuss their Make Time framework, a practical system for escaping busyness and distraction to focus on what truly matters each day.
  2. They argue most productivity advice over-indexes on efficiency and inbox-zero, instead of helping people deliberately choose and protect one daily “highlight” that delivers satisfaction, joy, or urgent progress.
  3. The conversation unpacks their four-part framework—Highlight, Laser, Energize, Reflect—along with concrete tactics like reshaping your calendar, removing infinity-pool apps, and resetting others’ expectations around responsiveness.
  4. They also briefly touch on their Design Sprint method and how they now apply it with early-stage startups through their Character Labs accelerator.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Choose a single daily “highlight” to anchor your day.

Instead of trying to do everything, deliberately pick one 60–90 minute highlight—based on urgency, satisfaction, or joy—and plan your day so you can give it peak attention. Even if the rest of the day is messy, consistently nailing one meaningful highlight can transform how you feel about your time.

Redesign your defaults instead of relying on willpower.

Knapp and Zeratsky emphasize that willpower alone is no match for modern tools; instead, you must change environmental and cultural defaults—how your calendar is structured, where your phone lives, which apps are installed—so the “right” behavior becomes the easy behavior.

Combat the ‘busy bandwagon’ and ‘infinity pools’ intentionally.

The busy bandwagon is the cultural expectation to always be busy and responsive; infinity pools are apps and services with endless content (email, social, news). Naming these forces helps you see how they feed each other and gives you permission to step off and slow both down.

Use your calendar as a design tool, not just a record of meetings.

Block focused time for your highlight, pre-schedule morning routines, and create weekly templates for different types of work. Treat your calendar as a canvas for how you want to spend time, which also prevents others from freely booking over your most important work.

Create deliberate friction around your biggest distractions.

Remove or log out of social and news apps, disable feeds (e.g., via Chrome extensions), keep your phone out of the bedroom, or even “cancel” internet access in certain places or times. These speed bumps break automatic habits and make the highlight the path of least resistance.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

In any given day, we’re lucky if we can have one great moment where we have our peak attention and we use it well.

Jake Knapp

Most productivity advice focuses on getting better and faster at doing the things that are already in front of you.

John Zeratsky

Willpower is never going to win… it’s all about making it hard to get distracted.

John Zeratsky

If you’re a reaction machine, you’re not doing meaningful work. And you’re not really alive as a human—you’re just a chatbot.

Jake Knapp

Things can sometimes be a mess outside of that, and you still feel really good about your day if you’ve made time for your highlight.

Jake Knapp

Why traditional productivity and time-management approaches often failThe Make Time framework: Highlight, Laser, Energize, ReflectThe ‘busy bandwagon’ and ‘infinity pools’ as core forces of distractionPractical tactics to reduce digital distraction and reclaim focusDesigning your calendar and environment around one daily highlightEnergy management via sleep, exercise, and simple health habitsThe Design Sprint process and Character Labs accelerator for startups

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