Matt Mullenweg: Why he picked a fight with WP Engine

ℹ️ EPISODE INFO

Released

March 2, 2025

Duration

1h 34m

Channel

Lenny's Podcast

Watch on YouTube

▶ Open ↗

📝 EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Matt Mullenweg is the co-founder of WordPress, the open source platform powering a staggering 43% of the internet. He also serves as CEO of Automattic—the parent company of brands like WordPress.com, WooCommerce, and Tumblr—which is worth over $7 billion, with over 1,700 employees across 90 countries. In this episode, he discusses some of the most controversial topics surrounding WordPress, Automattic, and the broader open source community. What you’ll learn:

• Matt’s response to public criticism
• Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source”
• How his team is turning around Tumblr after acquiring it for just $3 million (after Yahoo bought it for $1.1 billion)
• Why he mortgaged his home to fund San Francisco’s iconic Bay Lights project
• Matt’s philosophy: “Don’t just build a product; build a movement”
• Why open source matters: “If the Founding Fathers were around today, they’d be open source advocates”

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-creator-of-wordpress-opens-up-matt-mullenweg Where to find Matt Mullenweg:

• X: https://x.com/photomatt
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/photomatt/
• Website: https://ma.tt/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Matt Mullenweg (05:10) Matt’s career journey (11:15) Bay Lights project and philanthropy (17:28) How Matt got involved with open source (23:25) Why products like Meta’s Llama are “fake open source” (27:14) The future of open source and how to get involved (35:25) Building a successful online community (39:12) The WP Engine controversy (50:24) Facing criticism and controversy (55:29) Addressing community concerns (01:08:29) Forking Advanced Custom Fields (01:11:15) The role of social media and public perception (01:16:43) Acquiring and reviving Tumblr (01:24:25) Automattic’s acquisition strategy (01:28:51) Final thoughts and future plans Referenced:

• WordPress: https://wordpress.com/
• Automattic: https://automattic.com/
• CNET: https://www.cnet.com/
• Akismet: https://akismet.com/wordpress/
• Jetpack: https://jetpack.com/
• Toni Schneider on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonischneider/
• WooCommerce: https://woocommerce.com/
• Beeper: https://www.beeper.com/
• Day One: https://dayoneapp.com/
• Simplenote: https://simplenote.com/
• Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com/
• Creative Commons: https://creativecommons.org/
• Audrey Capital: https://audrey.co/
• Stripe: https://stripe.com/
• SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/
• Calm: https://www.calm.com/
• August: https://august.com/
• Daylight Computer: https://daylightcomputer.com/
• Keys Jazz Bistro: https://keysjazzbistro.com/
• Joomla: https://www.joomla.org/
• Drupal: https://new.drupal.org/
• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/
• Wix: https://www.wix.com/
• Squarespace: https://www.squarespace.com/
• Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/
• Gravatar: https://gravatar.com/
• The Bay Lights: https://illuminate.org/projects/thebaylights/
• The Bay Lights 360: https://illuminate.org/the-bay-lights-360/
• Ben Davis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-davis-sf/
• Kinder High School for the Performing and Visual Arts: https://www.houstonisd.org/hspva
• Jack Dorsey: We’re Losing our Free Will to Algorithms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_8NganZSFI
• Marc Andreessen: https://a16z.com/author/marc-andreessen/
• Bill Gurley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/
• An inside look at X’s Community Notes | Keith Coleman (VP of Product) and Jay Baxter (ML Lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-x-built-the-best-fact-checking-system-on-the-internet
• Llama: https://www.llama.com/
• WordCamp US & Ecosystem Thinking: https://ma.tt/2024/09/ecosystem-thinking/
• As Wall Street Chases Profits, Fire Departments Have Paid the Price: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/17/us/fire-engines-shortage-private-equity.html
• WordCamp Asia: https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/

...References continued at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-creator-of-wordpress-opens-up-matt-mullenweg Recommended book:

• Maintenance: Of Everything (in progress): https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everything/addenda/page/introduction Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

🎤 SPEAKERS

• Matt Mullenweg

  guest

• Lenny Rachitsky

  host

• Christina Cacioppo

  guest

🧾 EPISODE SUMMARY

In this episode of Lenny's Podcast, featuring Matt Mullenweg and Lenny Rachitsky, Matt Mullenweg: Why he picked a fight with WP Engine explores matt Mullenweg defends WordPress, open source, and his embattled reputation Matt Mullenweg, co‑creator of WordPress and CEO of Automattic, explains his lifelong commitment to open source and why he believes software freedom is a fundamental modern right.

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