Skip to content
Lenny's PodcastLenny's Podcast

The future of AI in software development | Inbal Shani (CPO of GitHub)

Inbal Shani is the chief product officer at GitHub, where she leads core product management, along with product strategy, marketing, open source, and communities, including the development of GitHub Copilot. Prior to joining GitHub, she led engineering and product teams at Amazon and Microsoft. In today’s conversation, we discuss: • What Inbal believes is overhyped and underhyped in the rapidly changing field of AI • How AI-driven code generation is changing software development • Her take on whether AI will replace developers • How software development looks in 3 to 5 years • How product teams operate at GitHub • GitHub’s Next team, and other ways the company fosters a culture of innovation • The success metrics and philosophy behind GitHub’s Copilot — Brought to you by Jira Product Discovery—Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams: https://atlassian.com/lenny/?utm_source=lennypodcast&utm_medium=paid-audio&utm_campaign=fy24q1-jpd-imc | Sanity—The most customizable content layer to power your growth engine: https://www.sanity.io/lenny | HelpBar by Chameleon—The free in-app universal search solution built for SaaS: https://helpbar.ai/lenny/?utm_source=lennys-podcast&utm_medium=sponsorship&utm_campaign=helpbar-launch-lennys-podcast Find the transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-future-of-ai-in-software-development-inbal-shani-cpo-of-github/ Where to find Inbal Shani: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inbalshani/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Inbal’s background (04:17) Why generative AI is not going to replace developers in the near future (05:54) Why AI-driven testing is underhyped (07:48) What the next 3 to 5 years will look like (10:13) Stats around the use of GitHub Copilot (12:07) How Copilot enables engineers to work more efficiently (13:38) Common mistakes when adopting AI into your workflows (16:42) How GitHub operationalizes “dogfooding” (18:46) The philosophy behind Copilot (20:24) Copilot’s success metrics (24:54) How Copilot encourages collaboration (26:37) What we lose when AI writes code for us (29:35) A retrospective on the generative AI space (30:47) Inbal’s thoughts on the future of AI (32:35) How to make space for innovative product ideas (34:37) How GitHub stays on the cutting edge of innovation (36:44) The GitHub Next team (39:20) Advice for early product managers (42:17) Inbal’s “biggest learning” from her career (45:34) Inbal’s closing thoughts (46:19) Lightning round Referenced: • How to measure and improve developer productivity | Nicole Forsgren (Microsoft Research, GitHub, Google): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-measure-and-improve-developer-productivity-nicole-forsgren-microsoft-research-github-goo/ • DORA: https://dora.dev/ • The role of AI in product development | Ryan J. Salva (VP of Product at GitHub, Copilot): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-role-of-ai-in-new-product-development-ryan-j-salva-vp-of-product-at-github-copilot/ • GitHub Universe 2023 day 2 keynote: The productivity platform for all developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_o9kFPVeiw • Satya Nadella on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanadella/ • TomTom: https://www.tomtom.com/ • Failing Forward: Turning Mistakes into Stepping Stones for Success: https://www.amazon.com/Failing-Forward-Turning-Mistakes-Stepping/dp/0785288570/ • Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Great-Some-Companies-Others/dp/0066620996 • Turning the Flywheel: A Monograph to Accompany Good to Great: https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Flywheel-Monograph-Accompany-Great/dp/0062933795 • Dare to Lead Like a Girl: How to Survive and Thrive in the Corporate Jungle: https://www.amazon.com/Dare-Lead-Like-Girl-Corporate/dp/1538163527 • All the Light We Cannot See on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81083008 • The Wheel of Time on Amazon Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Time-Season-1/dp/B09F59CZ7R Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Inbal ShaniguestLenny Rachitskyhost
Nov 30, 202350mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

GitHub’s CPO on AI copilots, developer happiness, and software’s future

  1. Inbal Shani, Chief Product Officer at GitHub, explains how AI tools like GitHub Copilot are reshaping software development by augmenting, not replacing, engineers. She argues the real shift is in developers’ thinking: from writing code to designing systems, architectures, and connected experiences, with AI handling more of the rote work. Shani highlights under-explored opportunities like AI-driven testing and discusses how GitHub measures Copilot’s impact through productivity, quality, security, and, ultimately, developer happiness. She also shares lessons on adopting AI in organizations, GitHub’s design philosophy, its research engine (GitHub Next), and what it takes to lead modern product teams.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

AI will augment developers, not replace them, for the foreseeable future.

Shani emphasizes that Copilot is a “copilot, not a pilot” and that human creativity, innovation, and judgment remain irreplaceable. AI needs humans both to generate data and to provide the creative spark that drives meaningful software.

Developers must shift from code-centric to system- and architecture-centric thinking.

As AI handles more low-level coding, developers—especially juniors—can focus earlier on understanding systems, environments, and products. This accelerates their growth toward senior, big-picture thinking rather than just syntax and boilerplate.

AI-driven testing and quality assurance are massively under-utilized opportunities.

Shani argues that as AI increases code volume, automated unit, integration, load, performance, infrastructure, and security testing become critical. AI can generate and expand test suites at scales that manual effort can’t match.

Adopting AI requires intentional change management, not just handing teams a tool.

Many companies drop AI tools in and expect magic. GitHub’s experience is that you must start from the customer problem, integrate AI where it truly reduces friction, and actively guide organizational behavior change around new workflows.

Productivity metrics must move beyond speed and lines of code to time-to-value and happiness.

GitHub looks at a mix of measures: faster code reviews, better security, fewer leaked secrets, and developer sentiment. Pure time or volume metrics are misleading because you can write bad code very quickly; the goal is valuable outcomes and satisfied engineers.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

“Copilot is a copilot, it’s not a pilot. You still need the human in the loop.”

Inbal Shani

“AI cannot replace innovation, that creative spark that is the center of humanity.”

Inbal Shani

“You can write really bad code really fast. Time alone is not a success metric.”

Inbal Shani

“If you don’t take risks, you cannot create a future.”

Inbal Shani

“If we cannot use our own tools, our customers cannot use them for sure.”

Inbal Shani

How AI and GitHub Copilot are changing the role of software developersOver-hyped vs. under-hyped aspects of AI in software developmentAI-driven testing, code quality, and security across the SDLCMeasuring AI impact: productivity, time-to-value, and developer happinessBest practices and common mistakes in adopting AI in organizationsGitHub’s design philosophy and innovation engine (GitHub Next)Leadership lessons and career development as a Chief Product Officer

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome