By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.
Lenny's PodcastThe science of product, big bets, and how AI is impacting the future of music | Gustav Söderström
Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.
Episode Details
EPISODE INFO
- Released
- May 21, 2023
- Duration
- 1h 24m
- Channel
- Lenny's Podcast
- Watch on YouTube
- ▶ Open ↗
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
Gustav Söderström is the Co-President and Chief Product and Technology Officer at Spotify. He is responsible for Spotify’s global product and technology strategy, overseeing the product, design, data, and engineering teams. Prior to Spotify, he founded 13th Lab, a startup that was later acquired by Facebook’s Oculus. He also served as the Director of Product and Business Development for Yahoo Mobile and founded Kenet Works, a company focused on community software for mobile phones, which was acquired by Yahoo in 2006. In today’s episode, we discuss:
- How Spotify structures product teams to promote freedom of thought
- Lessons on thinking long-term and navigating negative feedback
- Why Gustav started a podcast and what he’s learned
- How AI has impacted the work PMs, engineers, and designers do within Spotify
- AI-generated music and its impact on artists
- What’s next for Spotify and Spotify Podcasting
— Brought to you by Microsoft Clarity—See how people actually use your product | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments | Eco—Your most rewarding app Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the Where to find Gustav Söderström:
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/GustavS
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gustavsoderstrom/
Where to find Lenny:
- Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Gustav’s background (04:08) The various roles Gustav has occupied at Spotify (06:54) Why Gustav launched a podcast and what he learned (12:37) How PMs and product teams should think about AI (21:23) AI-generated music (26:19) Will AI continue to be a magic trick for products? (28:27) How Spotify organizes product teams (34:33) How Spotify operationalized autonomy (35:45) Why Spotify uses a centralized model for structuring their organization (43:34) The big bet Spotify took with redesigning its interface, and what they learned (57:26) How they tested their hypothesis before launch (1:02:35) Gustav’s “10% planning time” methodology (1:03:53) How to bring energy and clarity to your work (1:08:07) How to systematize deep thinking (1:10:29) The peeing-in-your-pants analogy (1:11:38) Thoughts on how the Swedish culture is portrayed in Succession (1:13:30) What’s next for Spotify and Spotify Podcasting (1:15:52) Lightning round Referenced:
- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/
- Daniel Ek: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-ek-1b52093a/
- Spotify: A Product Story podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3L9tzrt0CthF6hNkxYIeSB
- Spotify’s AI DJ: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2023-02-22/spotify-debuts-a-new-ai-dj-right-in-your-pocket/
- Avicii: https://avicii.com/
- DALL-E: https://openai.com/product/dall-e-2
- Stable Diffusion: https://stability.ai/
- Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/
- Brian Chesky: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/
- Succession on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/succession
- Fjällräven: https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us
- 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Hamilton-Helmer-audiobook/dp/B07SPHZCNL
- Charlie Munger: The Complete Investor: https://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Munger-Complete-Investor-Publishing-ebook/dp/B010EB3EUM
- The Mystery of the Aleph: Mathematics, the Kabbalah, and the Search for Infinity: https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Aleph-Mathematics-Kabbalah-Infinity/dp/B00005OSHY
- Something Deeply Hidden: Quantum Worlds and the Emergence of Spacetime: https://www.amazon.com/Something-Deeply-Hidden-audiobook/dp/B07QT9TBQW
- Helgoland: Making Sense of the Quantum Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Helgoland-Making-Sense-Quantum-Revolution/dp/B08MQYRVRX
- The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World: https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Infinity-Explanations-Transform-2011-07-21/dp/B01NGZJHOK
- The Fabric of Reality: The Science of Parallel Universes—and Its Implications: https://www.amazon.com/The-Fabric-of-Reality-audiobook/dp/B07L5XWD7X
- The Case Against Reality: Why Evolution Hid the Truth from Our Eyes: https://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Against-Reality-audiobook/dp/B07VL5TCVF
- Gödel’s Proof: https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6dels-Proof-Ernest-Nagel/dp/0814758371
- The Demon in the Machine: How Hidden Webs of Information Are Solving the Mystery of Life: https://www.amazon.com/Demon-Machine-Information-Solving-Mystery/dp/B0C3WPGH4P
- Halt and Catch Fire on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/halt-and-catch-fire/umc.cmc.5s15r46uj0wx044tipm2zoh88
- Duolingo: https://www.duolingo.com/
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
SPEAKERS
Gustav Söderström
guestLenny Rachitsky
hostNarrator
other
EPISODE SUMMARY
In this episode of Lenny's Podcast, featuring Gustav Söderström and Lenny Rachitsky, The science of product, big bets, and how AI is impacting the future of music | Gustav Söderström explores Spotify’s Gustav Söderström on AI, big bets, and product orgs Gustav Söderström, Spotify’s co-president, CPO, and CTO, discusses how the internet has evolved from curation to recommendation and now to AI-driven generation, and what that means for product strategy and UX. He shares Spotify’s approach to AI (including the AI DJ), how they structure product and engineering teams after moving beyond the famous “squads” model, and how they think about big, risky bets like their controversial home feed redesign. Gustav also explores the future of AI-generated music, the need for products to feel like “magic,” and the organizational tradeoffs between speed, autonomy, and coherence. Throughout, he emphasizes fault-tolerant interfaces, scientific A/B testing, clear strategy ownership at the VP level, and a culture of explaining decisions with rigor rather than relying on “magic.”
RELATED EPISODES
