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"EVERY BILLIONAIRE Uses These SUCCESS HABITS To Achieve Their GOALS" | James Clear & Lewis Howes

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James ClearguestLewis Howeshost

Oct 3, 201851mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

60 min read · 11,855 words

0:00 – 0:50
Mastering the art of showing up with “two-minute” habits
1. JCJames Clear
  Because what you need to do is master the art of showing up. Like, I had a, I had a reader who ended up losing over 100 pounds, and one of the things that he did was he went to the gym, but he wasn't allowed to stay for longer than five minutes. So he would show up, be there, do, like, half an exercise. Five minutes would go, he'd leave. He did this for, like, six weeks.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
3. JCJames Clear
  Now, it sounds ridiculous. It sounds silly 'cause it's the opposite.
4. LHLewis Howes
  Like, why wouldn't you just work out for a half hour?
5. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, yeah.
6. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
7. JCJames Clear
  But what he was doing was mastering the art of showing up, and a habit must be established before it can be improved, right? If you don't establish the habit, there's nothing to optimize. [upbeat music]
0:50 – 2:35
Reconnecting and James Clear’s approach: science-based and practical
1. LHLewis Howes
  Welcome everyone back to The School of Greatness Podcast. We've got James Clear in the house. Good to see you, man.
2. JCJames Clear
  Lewis, what's up, man? Good to talk to you.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Good to, uh, to reconnect. We met, I think, like, eight or nine years ago, right?
4. JCJames Clear
  Yeah.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Originally in Columbus.
6. JCJames Clear
  I was just telling someone this story. It was in Ohio. We're both Colum- uh, both-
7. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
8. JCJames Clear
  ... Ohio boys.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
10. JCJames Clear
  And it was, uh... I had, I had a website for, like, two weeks, and, uh, it was-
11. LHLewis Howes
  Is that the passive panda one?
12. JCJames Clear
  Yeah. Yeah. [laughs]
13. LHLewis Howes
  That was a cute little one.
14. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, it's not even around anymore.
15. LHLewis Howes
  I liked it, though.
16. JCJames Clear
  Yeah. Yeah. It was just, it was a good way for me to learn stuff. But, um, but yeah, anyway, that was the very first website. And you told me a story about the first webinar that you and Sean did, and afterward you went and jumped on a trampoline 'cause you were so happy-
17. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
18. JCJames Clear
  ... with how it went.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Exactly, yeah.
20. JCJames Clear
  [laughs]
21. LHLewis Howes
  It was back in the day, man.
22. JCJames Clear
  Yeah.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Uh, you've grown a ton since then. That was when you were just starting out. Now you have almost a half a million subscribers to your, uh, your newsletter. You've got a book that's coming out right now called Atomic Habits: An Easy and Proven Way to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones. And, uh, you've done so much over the years with what you were just saying is science-based research. What else was it again? Science-based research.
24. JCJames Clear
  Science, evidence-based and highly actionable. It's gotta be both of those, right? Like, I want, I want science-based ideas, but I also want 'em to be practical and easy to implement.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
26. JCJames Clear
  And, um, I mean, either one is, is useful, but if you have 'em both together, it's a really powerful combo.
27. LHLewis Howes
  And you kinda got started in what? Personal finance and personal development and...
28. JCJames Clear
  Yeah. I wasn't, uh, personal finance was never really a big part of my story, although I find it interesting for myself. Um, I wrote about small business marketing and stuff early on. Um, so, and then I transitioned after I learned how to build an email list.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
30. JCJames Clear
  Um, I transitioned to jamesclear.com, which is what I've been doing for the last five or six years now.
2:35 – 4:23
Why habits compound over time—and why “tasty now” often loses later
1. LHLewis Howes
  What would you say is your core audience? Is it entrepreneurs? Is it just everyday individuals looking to improve their life?
2. JCJames Clear
  It started and there were, like, pockets of people that were really interested. Like, I had a pocket of venture capitalists and investors that were really interested in some of the ideas.
3. LHLewis Howes
  'Cause you were doing business and marketing maybe and, yeah.
4. JCJames Clear
  Well, I, one of the phrases I use and I have this in the book is that habits are the compound interest of self-improvement. So it's like the same way that-
5. LHLewis Howes
  That's right
6. JCJames Clear
  ... compound interest, you know, accrues through finance, your, the effects of your habits multiply over time. And so often these choices that you make, they're these little 1% improvements for you or against you each day, and they're very easy to overlook on a daily basis, right? Like, what, what really is the difference between eating a burger and fries or a salad and chicken for lunch?
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
8. JCJames Clear
  You don't really see a whole lot-
9. LHLewis Howes
  It tastes a lot better.
10. JCJames Clear
  Yeah. [laughs] Right. Yeah. [laughs]
11. LHLewis Howes
  It tastes amazing in the moment.
12. JCJames Clear
  And that's actually, that's actually a crucial point, uh, that I cover in the book, which is that habits that are immediately satisfying are more likely to be repeated. And so pretty much any behavior produces multiple outcomes across time, right? Like, if you eat a donut right now, it's tasty and sugary.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm, so good.
14. JCJames Clear
  But in the long run, you gain weight. And so the, the immediate outcome is favorable. The long-term outcome is unfavorable. With good habits, it's often the reverse, right? Like, you go to the gym right now and it takes effort. You sweat. You have to work hard. But the immediate outcome-
15. LHLewis Howes
  You have to sacrifice your time for Netflix and chill to go train
16. JCJames Clear
  ... the immediate outcome's unfavorable, but the ultimate outcome, you're in shape and in, uh, you know, a year or a month or whatever-
17. LHLewis Howes
  Right
18. JCJames Clear
  ... is favorable. And so the challenge for building good habits and breaking bad ones is often finding a way to pull the long-term consequences of your bad habits into the immediate moment, so you feel a little bit of the pain right now and want to avoid it, and the long-term rewards of your good habits into the immediate moment so that you have a reason to repeat it again in the future.
19. LHLewis Howes
  So is it kinda like, "Okay, I'm gonna go to the gym and eat donuts at the gym"-
20. JCJames Clear
  [laughs]
21. LHLewis Howes
  ... "so I feel good, but also realize this is gonna help me long-term?"
4:23 – 7:14
Identity-based habits: casting votes for who you want to become
1. JCJames Clear
  So in the book I talk about this concept I call identity-based habits, and essentially what you're, the ultimate form of immediate gratification is the reinforcement of your desired identity. So you go to the gym, and you're reinforcing the identity of, "I'm the type of person who doesn't miss workouts." Or you show up to write, and you're reinforcing the identity of, "I'm someone who writes every day." And so you get a little bit of immediate satisfaction from being that person and being aligned with your identity, your values, your principles. Um, but you also get the long-term rewards from showing up every day.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
3. JCJames Clear
  And so what you don't want is some kind of immediate reinforcement, like eating a donut at the gym, where you're casting votes for two different identities, right? It's like I showed up at the gym. I'm casting a, the vote for being the type of person who doesn't miss workouts, the type of person who's healthy. But then I eat a donut, so now I'm casting a vote for being an unhealthy person.
4. LHLewis Howes
  So the donut isn't, yeah.
5. JCJames Clear
  So it kind of like washes out, right? So you want, you want reinforcements that align with your principles and values more.
6. LHLewis Howes
  So you essentially have to form your identity first. Is that what I'm hearing?
7. JCJames Clear
  So-
8. LHLewis Howes
  Who you want to be
9. JCJames Clear
  ... I think that your habits are the way that you embody an identity, right? So, like, each time you, uh, make your bed, you embody the identity of someone who is clean and organized. Each time you go to the gym, you embody the identity of someone who's fit. Each time you sit down to write, you embody the identity of a writer. So you can sort of think of it as, like, each behavior casts a vote for the type of person that you wanna become, and if you cast enough votes for that type of identity, you start to believe that about yourself, right? Like, if you, you go to church for 20 years, you believe that you're religious. You study Spanish every Tuesday for 30 minutes-
10. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
11. JCJames Clear
  ... you believe that you are studious. Um, so in that way, your habits provide evidence of your desired identity, and I think that that is- Probably the ultimate reason that habits are so important, it's true, like, habits can help you earn more money or be more productive or lose weight, um, and all that stuff is great. But in addition to the external results that habits provide, they also shape your sense of self. They, like, are the a- the engine or the avenue through which you learn to believe things about yourself. Like, sometimes people will say stuff like, "Fake it till you make it." But fake it till you make it is asking yourself to believe something without evidence for it, and you can do that for a little while. You could do it for a day or a week. But eventually, I mean, there's a word for beliefs that don't have evidence behind them. It's delusion, right?
12. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
13. JCJames Clear
  And if you're deluding yourself, then eventually you give up on that. But the power of doing a better habit each day or casting a little vote for that type of person is that now you have evidence to root your belief in.
14. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
15. JCJames Clear
  And so then whenever you show up-
16. LHLewis Howes
  'Cause now I've done it for six months, yeah
17. JCJames Clear
  ... right? Like, y- I mean, now you have a lot of evidence that you're a podcaster-
18. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
19. JCJames Clear
  ... or a good interviewer, you know? Like, you do this over and over again. Each time you cast a vote for believing that about yourself, and you don't just, you aren't delusionally believing that you're a good interviewer. It's because you've shown up and done it hundreds of times.
20. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
21. JCJames Clear
  Um, and so I think that that's true for any habit, large or small, that they provide evidence of the desired identity or the, the type of person that you are.
7:14 – 11:13
James Clear’s non-negotiables: exercise, reading, writing, walks, and sleep
1. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm. What are the five non-negotiable habits for you on a daily basis?
2. JCJames Clear
  Oh, that's a good question. So obviously, this is gonna depend on your goals. For me specifically, uh, I think there are a few core habits that are gonna serve everybody and certainly serve me well. So exercise is a huge one. Um, I don't do it daily, but I exercise, I train four times a week.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
4. JCJames Clear
  And I feel like if I didn't exercise, I don't know that I would be an entrepreneur. Like, I don't know if I could handle the psychological rollercoaster without the physical outlet.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, the release, the-
6. JCJames Clear
  You probably feel that-
7. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
8. JCJames Clear
  ... as, like, an athlete, too. You know, like, I-
9. LHLewis Howes
  Got to
10. JCJames Clear
  ... for, uh, being an athlete for so many years, I feel like I need to push myself physically in addition to mentally.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Absolutely.
12. JCJames Clear
  If it's just mental, it doesn't do it for me.
13. LHLewis Howes
  No.
14. JCJames Clear
  I need to have a physical outlet.
15. LHLewis Howes
  So exercise.
16. JCJames Clear
  Exercise is one. The other, the ultimate meta habit, is reading because if you build a habit of reading, you can solve pretty much any other problem, you know?
17. LHLewis Howes
  Hmm.
18. JCJames Clear
  You wanna learn how to be a better podcaster? You can read about that.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
20. JCJames Clear
  You wanna learn how to meditate? You can read about that. You wanna learn how to make more money? You can read about that. Um, and so what you need is to develop a habit of reading, and then whatever problem you're facing at the time, you can, you have a method for solving that.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Okay.
22. JCJames Clear
  Um, writing for me is huge. I don't actually know what I think about something until I write about it.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Huh.
24. JCJames Clear
  I find that if I-
25. LHLewis Howes
  Get your ideas out, you get it out.
26. JCJames Clear
  If you ask me something right now that I haven't written about before, what is really happening is I'm just talking my emotions. So what I mean is that you'll ask me something, and I'll get an implicit feeling about what, what that topic is. I'll have some intuition, a gut feeling about it, and I'll say whatever that feeling is driving me to say, but I don't actually know if that's what I really think or what I deeply think until I have the time to sit down-
27. LHLewis Howes
  The research-
28. JCJames Clear
  ... write it out-
29. LHLewis Howes
  ... the information
30. JCJames Clear
  ... logically go through it. Because a lot of the time, you know, if you were to ask me the same question next week, I might have a different feeling at that time, so then I'm talking different emotions. So I think I actually need to, to have time to sit with it a little bit and write, write it through to learn what I actually think.
11:13 – 13:15
Goals vs. systems: why outcomes don’t change without changing inputs
1. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, exactly. Um, you said this, you said, "You do not rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems."
2. JCJames Clear
  Mm-hmm.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Uh, what are the systems you've created to be successful beyond those kind of core habits right there?
4. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, so this is a really good question. I think first I just wanna talk a little bit about that, that point, that you do not rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. What do I mean by that? So often when we set about to change something or to achieve something, the first step is almost always setting a goal. Uh, and this is coming from someone, like, I was very goal-oriented for a long time, right? Like, I would set-
5. LHLewis Howes
  You're an athlete.
6. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, I would set goals-
7. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
8. JCJames Clear
  ... for the things I wanted to do in sports, the goals for the grades I wanted in class, the goals for how much money I wanted to make in my business. And sometimes I would achieve those, but then sometimes I wouldn't. And so I had this question, like, well, clearly I'm setting goals for both, so, like, that can't be the thing that determines it. And you see this a lot, that the- The winners and losers in a particular domain often have the same goals. Like, every Olympian wants to win a gold medal.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Sure.
10. JCJames Clear
  Uh, every job candidate wants to get the job. So if the winners and the losers have the same, the same goal, then the goal cannot be the thing that distinguishes the two, and the thing that distinguishes them is the process, the system behind the goal. This is also important because achieving a goal often only changes your life for the moment. It's like, you know, say you're, um-
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
12. JCJames Clear
  ... [clears throat] d- just take, like, a simple example. Say you have a messy room, you know, and you set... You get motivated, and you set the goal to clean your room. Well, you can do that in an hour, and then you have a clean room, but if you don't change the sloppy habits that led to a messy room in the first place, then you just end up with a dirty room again.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
14. JCJames Clear
  So it's like treating a symptom without treating the cause, and, um, habits are, are a better solution in that case because if you fix the inputs, the outputs fix themselves automatically, right? You don't have to fight, uh, to have a clean room if you have clean habits.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
16. JCJames Clear
  Um, and I think that that's true in a larger sense as well, right?
17. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
18. JCJames Clear
  People want outcomes. They want to earn more money or lose weight or be more productive or reduce stress, but the outcome is not the thing that needs to change. It's the system that precedes it.
13:15 – 15:28
How long does it take to form a habit? The real answer is repetition
1. LHLewis Howes
  Mm. So give me the... Let's, let's bust the myth of how many days it takes to set a habit.
2. JCJames Clear
  [laughs]
3. LHLewis Howes
  Because there's 14 days, 28 days, 60 days-
4. JCJames Clear
  Yeah
5. LHLewis Howes
  ... a year.
6. JCJames Clear
  Right.
7. LHLewis Howes
  If you do something every single day, and maybe it changes for each person, but what's the science or the, uh, the statistics say about how long it takes to form a positive or negative habit, I guess?
8. JCJames Clear
  So 21 days is the thing you hear all the time, 30 days, 100 days, whatever. Right now, 66 days is making the rounds as the latest-
9. LHLewis Howes
  I saw that in another book. What was that book?
10. JCJames Clear
  Well, there was one study done that found that 66 days was the average, uh, for how long it takes, and as a rule of thumb, I don't think it's terrible. Like, you should remind yourself, yeah, this is gonna be months of work. It's not just gonna be-
11. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
12. JCJames Clear
  ... something quick. But even within that study, the range was quite wide. So if you did something simple like drink a glass of water at lunch each day, it would take, like, three weeks.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
14. JCJames Clear
  If you did something more difficult like go for a run after work every day, that would be, like, seven or eight months. But I think, actually, that question to begin with is sort of a, there's, like, a broken mentality behind it.
15. LHLewis Howes
  The wrong question.
16. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, it is.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
18. JCJames Clear
  Because if you ask that question, the implicit assumption is, when do I have to stop working or when, when is this done? Um, and-
19. LHLewis Howes
  And is it automatic after a certain period of time?
20. JCJames Clear
  Well, the honest answer to how long it takes to build a new habit is forever because if you stop, then it's no longer a habit.
21. LHLewis Howes
  It's a constant choice and a decision, right?
22. JCJames Clear
  I think people often look at habits as, like, a finish line to be crossed, but it's actually a lifestyle to be lived.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
24. JCJames Clear
  And if you look at it as a lifestyle change, then you're ch- saying, you know, okay, okay, what's something small and sustainable I can stick to, right? What's something that can actually last over time? Um, so it is true that, uh, and y- you can actually map this through research, that a habit will become more automatic with practice, but this reveals another important point, which is that there's nothing about the amount of time elapsed that leads to habits being built. You could practice something once in 30 days, or you could practice it 1,000 times. What actually leads to a habit becoming automatic and becoming learned and ingrained is repetition. So the phrase that I like to use is not 21 days to 30 days, but put in your reps. I mean, that, that's the real thing, is you need to, you need to practice.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
26. JCJames Clear
  And if you put in your reps, then your brain starts to automate how that process works.
15:28 – 18:46
Why James Clear’s angle differs: combining motivation and reinforcement
1. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. What makes you an expert on habits-
2. JCJames Clear
  Oh, man. [laughs]
3. LHLewis Howes
  ... based on lots of other people that are talking about habits? Why are you talking about it differently, and what have you discovered that's different than everyone else?
4. JCJames Clear
  Okay, so two questions there. So the first one is expertise. Um, and I think that, and I've said this many times before, I'm just going through this with everybody else. Uh, I consider my readers my peers, uh, in the sense that we're all just trying things out. The only difference is I write about what I learn and share it each week-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
6. JCJames Clear
  ... and, but we're all just learning along the way. Um, early on I had a feeling like that. I was like, "Who am I to, you know, I'm just a guy. Who am I to write-
7. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
8. JCJames Clear
  ... about this?" And I had a friend tell me, "The way you develop expertise is by writing about it every week." So I wrote a, a new article about habits every Monday and Thursday for three years, and that was how I developed the expertise on the topic-
9. LHLewis Howes
  You-
10. JCJames Clear
  ... was by writing about it every single week
11. LHLewis Howes
  ... you did research.
12. JCJames Clear
  Right.
13. LHLewis Howes
  And you said, "Here's what I found. Here's what I tried. Here's what worked, what didn't work."
14. JCJames Clear
  It's a combination of me reading the scientific literature and reading the research and then trying to distill the practical insights from that and testing things out in my own life as a weightlifter, a travel photographer, a writer, an entrepreneur, and seeing what that looks like, and then the two together. And I think you need both. Like, I don't wanna be some new age version of an academic who's in an ivory tower just, like, theorizing about ideas. It's different what it looks like to put ideas into practice, right?
15. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
16. JCJames Clear
  Like, imagine you're a peak performance coach and you show up to coach, like, an NBA team, and these guys are like, "Dude, you need to step on the court if you know what..." right, to see what it's actually like. Um, so you need to have both to-
17. LHLewis Howes
  Okay
18. JCJames Clear
  ... to have a firm understanding of that.
19. LHLewis Howes
  So you were researching, and you were applying it into your life. And what was the second part about this?
20. JCJames Clear
  The second question-
21. LHLewis Howes
  Yep
22. JCJames Clear
  ... which I think is probably the more interesting one, which is, what makes my angle different-
23. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
24. JCJames Clear
  ... or what makes this different?
25. LHLewis Howes
  Than every other book out there about habits.
26. JCJames Clear
  So you can broadly put books about habits into two categories. The first book, uh, the first category is what I'll call motivation models. So motivation models are about what sparks a behavior. How do you get started? How do you get motivated? The second category is what I'll call reinforcement models. So how does a habit stick? How does it last? Why do certain behaviors get reinforced? And sometimes books will touch on one but f- focus primarily on the other. A lot of the time they'll just kinda live in separate worlds. That's what I would say is, uh, happening in, like, the self-improvement space. Then you have the academic space, so psychology or neuroscience or whatever, and a lot of those books are focused on the why but not the how. They'll tell you, um, they'll tell you why something happens, why a particular neuron fires, why a particular biological process, uh, works the way it does, but they don't tell you how to implement it in your daily life.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
28. JCJames Clear
  And so what I wanted to do was try to combine the two. Um-
29. LHLewis Howes
  Why and how.
30. JCJames Clear
  Yes, a why, a book that is both why and how. Um, but- Why do habits form the way they do? Why are they important? And then how do they actually work? And, uh, my hope is that Atomic Habits was able to do that largely because of the framework that I put together. So in the book, I lay out these four stages that all habits go through, and I felt like we needed a new model because most of the models right now are either a motivation model or a reinforcement model-
18:46 – 20:34
The four stages of habits: cue, craving, response, reward
1. LHLewis Howes
  And what are those four frameworks?
2. JCJames Clear
  So the first stage of every habit is a cue. The second stage is a craving or some kind of prediction that your brain makes. I'll give you an example of these in a second. The third stage is the response, and then the fourth stage is the reward.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
4. JCJames Clear
  So you walk into a, um... The question I had that, that no model I could find could solve in, in any good way or explain in any good way was, why can the same person respond to the same cue in a different way? So let's say you get into the habit of going to the gym at 5:00 every day, but then sometimes work gets busy, and you don't go to the gym at 5:00. Current models don't explain that very well because it's like, well, the cue is 5:00. You should be going to the gym right now. It says you- the routine follows automatically after the cue. Um, or why, uh, why does someone walk into the kitchen and see a plate of cookies, and then they automatically wanna eat it? But you could just as imagine, uh, just as easily imagine that you just got done eating dinner in the other room, and you're stuffed, and you're full. And you walk in, you see a plate of cookies, and you're like, "I'm stuffed. I don't wanna eat anything." So what's going on there?
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
6. JCJames Clear
  And I think these four stages explain it, which is you see the cue, or you experience a cue, and then your craving or your prediction differs based on your current state. So the way that you interpret the cues in your life is contingent upon the current state that you're in.
7. LHLewis Howes
  The way you're feeling.
8. JCJames Clear
  Right, um, and also other things like your beliefs-
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
10. JCJames Clear
  ... or your identity, the social group that you're a part of, right? So, like, if you're in a different group, then maybe you interpret things in a different way. Um, you know, you could imagine one group, they practice a particular religion. They walk into a butcher shop and see pork, and they don't... They're like, "Oh, we can't eat that."
11. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
12. JCJames Clear
  Another person walks in, and they're like, "Oh, yeah, I'll have a pork sandwich," because it's obvious and easy and right there. Um, so what you choose is contingent upon how you interpret the cues in your life.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
14. JCJames Clear
  Um, then-
20:34 – 24:12
Changing interpretation through social norms: join the right tribe
1. LHLewis Howes
  So how do we change what we interpret?
2. JCJames Clear
  Yes. Good question. All right. So this is a key point in the book, which is that social norms, society leans heavily on us all.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
4. JCJames Clear
  So, uh, if you... There are just broad examples of this. So-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Family pressure, religious pressure, media pressure.
6. JCJames Clear
  All kinds of stuff
7. LHLewis Howes
  ... peer, peer pressure, everything.
8. JCJames Clear
  Yes.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
10. JCJames Clear
  Um, let's say... So just some broad examples. Uh, you walk into an elevator, and you turn around to face the front. You have a job interview, and you wear a suit and tie or a dress or something nice. There's no reason it has to be that way, right? Like, you could face the back of the elevator. You could wear a swimsuit to a job interview, but you don't do that because it violates the shared norms of the group, right?
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm. Society, yeah.
12. JCJames Clear
  It violates the shared expectations of what that society has. But that's not... That's true not only in a broad sense that we're part of these tribes, like big tribes, you know, what it means to be a Christian or to be American or to be, uh, Australian or whatever, but it's also true in the small tribes that we belong to, what it means to be a neighbor on this street or a member of your local CrossFit gym or to volunteer for a local organization. All of those tribes, all of those groups that you belong to have a set of shared expectations, a set of shared norms, and the key, if you wanna build habits that last, if you wanna change the way that you interpret cues, is to join a group where your, the desired behavior is the normal behavior, right? Like, there are-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
14. JCJames Clear
  ... there are plenty of people who, they wanna work out, but going to the gym feels like a lot to them. Uh, it feels hard, feels like a sacrifice, but there are also people who go to the gym every week, and it's just normal. It doesn't feel like an obligation. That's... The desired behavior is the normal behavior.
15. LHLewis Howes
  It's their lifestyle.
16. JCJames Clear
  Right. Same thing for, uh, musicians. You know, like, if you wanna learn an instrument, hang out with people who play all the time. You know, like, if you hang out with a bunch of musicians, it's like, "Well, yeah."
17. LHLewis Howes
  "It's what we do all day."
18. JCJames Clear
  "Yeah, we play four days a week. We, we play seven days a week."
19. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
20. JCJames Clear
  'Cause it just happens. That's, that's what the tribe does. The caveat to this, and the thing that I don't see people mention a lot, is that the reason social norms influence our behavior so much is because we want to belong to the tribe. We wanna be friends with those people.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
22. JCJames Clear
  And so we don't wanna lose the friendship or lose belonging over violating the norms.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, you're not gonna hang out with a bunch of vegans and have pork-
24. JCJames Clear
  Right
25. LHLewis Howes
  ... and just, like, be the only one eating that.
26. JCJames Clear
  You won't hang out with them for very long 'cause you're-
27. LHLewis Howes
  No
28. JCJames Clear
  ... not gonna be friends with them anymore.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Exactly.
30. JCJames Clear
  Right? They'll kick you out.
24:12 – 29:10
Make the response easy: reduce friction with the two-minute rule and better setup
1. JCJames Clear
  So this is mostly about making it easy. Um, so this is the habit itself, and the easier a habit is, the less friction there is associated with the habit, the more likely you're gonna be to do it. So the way that I like to describe this, imagine you have like a hose, right, and there's a bend in the middle, and there's a little bit of water trickling out. If you wanna increase the amount of water going through the hose, you have two options. You could either crank up the valve, uh, and force more water through, or you could just remove the bend and let it flow through naturally. And a lot of the time, advice is centered on cranking up the valve. It's like, you need to try harder, you need grit, you need perseverance, you need motivation, you need to overcome the obstacles in your life. And all those things are fine, but I think they're all short-term solutions. You might be able to do that for a day or a week, but I've never consistently seen someone stick to positive habits in a negative environment. It's really hard to fight that day in and day out.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
3. JCJames Clear
  So, uh, the solution, I think, is to reduce friction, and there are a ton of ways you can do this. Um, one way is just to scale the habit down. Make it as easy as possible. So people have heard things like this before, start small, small steps, whatever, but even when you know you should start small, it's still really easy to start too big.
4. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
5. JCJames Clear
  So, uh, you know, say you wanna get in shape, and you're like, "All right. I wanna run a couple days a week, but I know I should start small, so I'll only run for 15 minutes." But even that is like way bigger than what I'm talking about. I mean, it should be so small that you... In the book, I call it the two-minute rule, but you should downscale any habit to fit within two minutes.
6. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
7. JCJames Clear
  So it's like, all right, I wanna go for a run three days a week. My habit is I put on my running shoes, and I step out the door. Anything else that happens after that is just bonus.
8. LHLewis Howes
  Is a success.
9. JCJames Clear
  Now-
10. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
11. JCJames Clear
  ... sometimes people resist that because they're like, "Well, this sounds kind of like a mental trick," right? Like, "I know the real goal isn't just to put my shoes on, I know the real goal is to go for a run." So if you feel that way, my suggestion would be only do the first two minutes for the first few weeks because what you need to do is master the art of showing up. Like, I had a, I had a reader who ended up losing over 100 pounds, and one of the things that he did was he went to the gym, but he wasn't allowed to stay for longer than five minutes. So he would show up, be there, do like half an exercise. Five minutes would go, he'd leave. He did this for like six weeks.
12. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
13. JCJames Clear
  Now, it sounds ridiculous. It sounds silly 'cause it's the opposite.
14. LHLewis Howes
  It's like, why don't you just work out for a half hour?
15. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, yeah.
16. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
17. JCJames Clear
  But what he was doing was mastering the art of showing up, and a habit must be established before it can be improved, right? If you don't establish the habit, there's nothing to optimize. If you're not showing up at the gym every day, you don't even... Who cares about what workout you're doing? You're not even there.
18. LHLewis Howes
  Don't start running an hour a day if you've never run in a long time.
19. JCJames Clear
  Be the person who shows up and puts their running shoes on every day before you worry about how far you're running and what kind of workout you're doing and all that type of stuff. Um, a lot of times-
20. LHLewis Howes
  Establish the h- the art of showing up first before going all in on the desired goal you want.
21. JCJames Clear
  I think that's right. I mean, you can find examples of people who flip a switch and transform their lives or have an epiphany and do it overnight.
22. LHLewis Howes
  Those are very the rare ones, yeah.
23. JCJames Clear
  But I think that it's rare. Um, I think that the more sustainable strategy, the more reliable strategy, is to scale it down to the first two minutes, focus on that, establish it, master the art of showing up-
24. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
25. JCJames Clear
  ... and then go from there. So really, you should like... Usually, when people think about building better habits, they optimize for the finish line, right? It's like, how much weight do I need to lose? How much money do I need to make? Um, you know, how, when can I finish this book? It's all focused on the result, but I think instead, if you optimize for the starting line, make it as easy as possible to start. Scale it down. Uh, organize your environment so all that stuff is set up. This is another strategy for making it easy, which is that you can prime your environment to make the future action easier, right? Like, if you chop up a bunch of vegetables and fruit on Sunday, it's now easier to have a healthy snack during the week. If you set your workout clothes out the night before, it's now easier to get into the workout the next day. But doing all that stuff to make it easy to show up, that is probably the more important piece early on. There's also like all these, there are all these logistical details for building a habit that nobody thinks about in the beginning.
26. LHLewis Howes
  Mm. Like what?
27. JCJames Clear
  Well, like, uh, take the example of, uh, my reader who went to the gym. There, it's like, okay, what gym are you gonna go to?
28. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
29. JCJames Clear
  How are you gonna get there?
30. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
29:10 – 31:45
Rewards and immediate satisfaction: progress, product design, and video games
1. JCJames Clear
  The fourth one, and this is crucial for getting a habit to stick, is the reward or the outcome. So every behavior is followed by some kind of outcome. This is just basic cause and effect. Um, and if the immediate outcome is favorable, is enjoyable, you have a reason to repeat it in the future. It's kind of like-
2. LHLewis Howes
  Donuts, mm.
3. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, exactly.
4. LHLewis Howes
  Keep repeating.
5. JCJames Clear
  Right? It's like that example. If you, if you, um, if you feel good, if you feel satisfied right after you do something, then it's like this positive emotional signal, and it's like, "Yeah, I should do this again."
6. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
7. JCJames Clear
  So you can see this actually business is a really interesting example with this. There are a lot of products, and some of the most successful products have some type of immediate satisfaction that is layered into them. So, um, toothpaste is a very common example. There's no reason a toothpaste needs to taste like mint, but it does because the minty flavor and the refreshingness of it, it makes your, it gives your mouth this clean feel.
8. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
9. JCJames Clear
  It's more satisfying, so you have a reason to do it again in the future. Um, I heard an interesting one recently about car manufacturers, that some of them are adding a fake guttural roar to the, the car or the truck when you press the accelerator because it just adds to the actual natural sound of the engine. So it makes it more satisfying-
10. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
11. JCJames Clear
  ... to step on the gas and to drive the car. So there are a variety of examples like this, but if you can add an im- the key is it needs to be immediate, right?
12. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
13. JCJames Clear
  So like this is, um- In the book, I refer to this as the cardinal rule of behavior change, which is behaviors that are immediately rewarded get repeated. Behaviors that are immediately punished get avoided. And it's really about the speed of how quickly you feel successful. If it feels good, you have a reason to do it again. Um-
14. LHLewis Howes
  Is that why video games do so well?
15. JCJames Clear
  Video games are masters at this. They're masters at it. So, um, they're masters actually at a variety of, of aspects related to habit formation. So-
16. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
17. JCJames Clear
  ... one is they're really good at this immediate satisfaction. There are all kinds of things. You're actually constantly getting feedback in a video game.
18. LHLewis Howes
  A score or a-
19. JCJames Clear
  Even if you're just running
20. LHLewis Howes
  ... yeah
21. JCJames Clear
  ... you hear the pitter-patter of the steps.
22. LHLewis Howes
  It's-
23. JCJames Clear
  That's feedback
24. LHLewis Howes
  ... gratifying. It's ... Yeah.
25. JCJames Clear
  The jingles of, like, picking up another power up or, um, you know, seeing a kill or something like that. Whatever the game is, you're always getting constant feedback. Sound, uh, things that are on screen, they're really good at dripping that out. Watching the, the score increase in the top corner, that is immediate feedback. Um, so they're, they have all these different ways of making you feel satisfied, and when you see that progress, you have a reason to continue in the future. This is one of the ... One of the most effective forms of immediate satisfaction is progress.
26. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
27. JCJames Clear
  Soon as you feel progress, you have a reason to continue. Feels really good to see that you're making headway.
31:45 – 38:12
Why habits relapse: environment, social pressure, and physical design
1. LHLewis Howes
  Now, why do some people make all this progress, let's say they lose the weight, uh, they lose 100 pounds, but then they gain it back two years later?
2. JCJames Clear
  Yeah.
3. LHLewis Howes
  They've got this progress. They achieved the desired goal, but then how come it didn't stick?
4. JCJames Clear
  It's a good question. I mean, it's a complicated thing, a hard thing. But, um, I'll give a couple potential, uh, reasons. So one is it comes back to the social norms that we mentioned before. Um-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
6. JCJames Clear
  ... there's a story that I tell in the book about, uh, Vietnamese soldiers, um, well, American soldiers in, during the Vietnam War. Uh, so they were over in Vietnam, and these two congressmen went over and found out that the heroin usage, uh, among the troops was incredibly high. It was, like, I think they first thought it was, like, 10 or 15%, but then they found out it was actually over 20. So, you know, one in five troops is addicted to heroin or trying heroin, using it while they're over there, and they're like, "This is a huge problem. We need to figure this out." So they created this whole committee to investigate things or whatever, and eventually the war ends, and the soldiers come back. And w- they were shocked by is that, um, 90% of the soldiers that were addicted to heroin in Vietnam were not addicted when they returned, and the main reason, it makes so much sense, but it upended our understanding of addiction at the time. They completely changed the context, right? In, in Vietnam-
7. LHLewis Howes
  Their environment. Yeah
8. JCJames Clear
  ... they're, they're in a war zone. They're highly stressed. They're surrounded by other users. Heroin is present and easy to get. They come home. They're in a totally new environment. It's not a war zone anymore. They're not surrounded by other users. They don't really know where to get heroin, so they have to figure that out too. You layer all this stuff together, and suddenly it becomes much easier to not do that, um, whereas previously they thought, oh, it was an addiction. They were doing it for other reasons.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
10. JCJames Clear
  This same thing is true, um, but usually in the reverse, right? Typically, you have an addict who gets hooked on a drug, goes into rehab. This is the equivalent of leaving your environment behind, not having any of those triggers. But then you send them home to the same place they got addicted in the first place, right?
11. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
12. JCJames Clear
  So now they're surrounded by all their old friends, all the same cues, and it becomes very hard to resist that. And I wonder if when people rebound from habits after they've achieved some level of success, whether it's losing weight or getting clean or whatever, if it's the return of the environment that causes a lot of that. Um-
13. LHLewis Howes
  You think that's what it is?
14. JCJames Clear
  Well, I don't know if it's always that. I, I don't think I could say it, it is universally.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
16. JCJames Clear
  But, um-
17. LHLewis Howes
  It's part of it
18. JCJames Clear
  ... I think that it's definitely ... it definitely plays a role. I mean, you can-
19. LHLewis Howes
  'Cause we're influenced by people's, uh, pressure either way, like you said.
20. JCJames Clear
  Yes. Peer pressure can either be positive or negative.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, the communities we surround ourself with, we rise to that community.
22. JCJames Clear
  Right.
23. LHLewis Howes
  You know, if you're around vegans all day and there's only vegan food available, you're gonna eat probably mostly vegan-
24. JCJames Clear
  Right
25. LHLewis Howes
  ... if that's what you want, or if you're trying to eat healthier, if you go back home and everyone's eating donuts all day, that temptation is gonna be hard to say no to after months.
26. JCJames Clear
  You can do it for a little while, but it's just really hard to do it forever.
27. LHLewis Howes
  So environment is a huge factor is what I'm hearing.
28. JCJames Clear
  I think both social and physical. We haven't talked that much about physical environment, but that's another key component.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Hm.
30. JCJames Clear
  You know? So, like, um, I'll give you an example of a good habit and a bad habit. So for good habits, you want the physical environment to make it obvious and easy for you to do the behavior. You know? So, like, I, um-
38:12 – 41:09
Starting from rock bottom: pick one habit, build progress, and rethink willpower
1. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. Okay. Um, if you were coaching someone who said, "I have no clue what I'm supposed to do with my life. I'm, I'm lost. I have all these bad habits. I smoke, I drink, I eat donuts every day."
2. JCJames Clear
  Mm.
3. LHLewis Howes
  "I have no job. Um, my room is sloppy, and I'm just depressed," what would you say to them to get started with changing their life around in the form of better habits?
4. JCJames Clear
  Well, you just need to pick one thing, first of all. I think that, uh, I just mentioned it a few minutes ago, um, one of the most powerful forms of motivation is progress, so seeing some progress. I mean, it could be as simple as make your bed each day, right? Like, but just doing that, embodying the identity of someone who's getting better, who's making progress. Just pick one thing-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
6. JCJames Clear
  ... uh, and use that as, this is true. I mean, Lewis, this is something you've probably seen with a lot of people that you've talked to.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Yep.
8. JCJames Clear
  But habits are the foundation for mastery. So if you, you know, say, take a, take a sport like basketball, um, you need to be able to dribble with both hands without thinking before you can worry about what strategy you're running on offense or what kind of, you know, strategic play you're gonna run or what your defensive scheme is or all this other stuff, right? Like, you need to automate the fundamentals of the craft before you can worry about the next level of performance. Same thing is true for chess. You know? Like, you need to know how the chess pieces move automatically without thinking about it before you can get into, all right, what is my opponent-
9. LHLewis Howes
  The strategy of the game, yeah
10. JCJames Clear
  ... gonna do, and I'm gonna do this, and they're gonna do that. And so I think this is true not just at the peak levels of performance, that you integrate these habits and use habits as the foundation for the next level of performance, but also true when you're getting started. Just build one small thing. Carve out a 1% change, a 1% improvement, and use that as the stepping stone to the next, uh, level.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm. And what about self-control? Because what if we have this desire for something, um... What's the other word for self-control? I'm thinking of-
12. JCJames Clear
  Willpower.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Willpower.
14. JCJames Clear
  Perseverance, grit.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. What about willpower? How much willpower do we have?
16. JCJames Clear
  So you hear this a lot. I mean, it's very common in, especially in self-help motivation, self-government.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Yep.
18. JCJames Clear
  You need to be motivated. You have to have willpower. Grit and perseverance are huge and important, and it's not that those qualities are not important. It's just that the way to develop them is different than what most people think. So most people think, "I need willpower, so I should just try harder." There's an interesting body of research, I mention it in the book, I think it's in chapter seven, on self-control and willpower, which is that the people who appear to have the greatest self-control actually are just tempted the least.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
20. JCJames Clear
  So they face temptations less frequently and therefore have the reserves and the resources to resist it when it occasionally comes up, and I think that this is actually, like, the lever to pull or the pressure point to push on, is that the way to get better willpower is to design an environment that tempts you less-
21. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
22. JCJames Clear
  ... not to say, "Let me just try harder."
41:09 – 44:30
Accountability, coaches, and the downside of autopilot habits
1. LHLewis Howes
  Right, yeah. Set yourself up to win, and you have a, a chapter that talks about the power of accountability partners.
2. JCJames Clear
  Mm.
3. LHLewis Howes
  I talk about accountability and coaches all the time. I hire coaches for everything because I use sports as my life-
4. JCJames Clear
  Yeah
5. LHLewis Howes
  ... analogy for my life, and I know that I couldn't have gotten to where I wanted to be as an athlete without great coaches and accountability.
6. JCJames Clear
  Yep.
7. LHLewis Howes
  So how important is accountability towards habits as well?
8. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, it's huge. So I recently hired a power lifting coach. He's great. He's worked, like, 12 world champions, and having him-
9. LHLewis Howes
  In Columbus?
10. JCJames Clear
  Has, uh...
11. LHLewis Howes
  Simple
12. JCJames Clear
  ... he's not based in Columbus, actually, but Columbus is great for strength culture.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
14. JCJames Clear
  It's, you know, I mean-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Huge
16. JCJames Clear
  ... obviously there's the Arnold, but then West Side Barbell and a bunch of other stuff.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
18. JCJames Clear
  And it's, yeah, it's awesome. Um, but your point about coaches is a crucial one, which is that, um, having a coach forces you to be aware of things that you would otherwise overlook, right? Like, as you, this is what I call the downside of building good habits, which is you build habits and in the beginning you develop fluency and skill and ability, and the, things become easier. But after a little while, once a habit has been established, the downside of having a habit is that you can do it good enough on autopilot, which means that you start to overlook your mistakes-
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
20. JCJames Clear
  ... and not think about-
21. LHLewis Howes
  Or care, yes
22. JCJames Clear
  ... how to get better.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, yeah.
24. JCJames Clear
  And so what you need is a coach to keep you on that razor's edge so that you, you keep building habits, but it also forces you to stay aware of what the next level of performance is, and that's kind of the challenge of continuous improvement. It's like a cycle. You know, it starts with awareness. If you're not aware of what your habits are or what your behavior is, you don't have a chance to change it. Then from that awareness, you go to deliberate practice, where you have to effortfully try and work to get better, and eventually the thing that you were deliberately practicing becomes a habit and becomes automatic. But once it becomes automatic, that's not the end. You have to return to awareness and see where you're at now-
25. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, how to get to the next level
26. JCJames Clear
  ... and start the cycle again.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Huh. And what about, what if you can't afford a coach? How do you find the right accountability partner?
28. JCJames Clear
  That's where I think we come back to the social component that we talked about earlier.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, join the group, join the community. Yeah.
30. JCJames Clear
  That's probably the best way to do it, and the great thing about the, you know, the internet and the web is that you can find those people-
44:30 – 46:33
Three truths: reading deeply, moving physically, and connecting face to face
1. LHLewis Howes
  This one's called the three truths. Uh, if you could only share three lessons with humanity and the world-
2. JCJames Clear
  Hm
3. LHLewis Howes
  ... and no one, they didn't have access to your writing or your blog or your books, but you only had three lessons you could share, what would those three lessons or three truths be?
4. JCJames Clear
  Yeah. Uh, that's really tough. So the first one I would say is about reading. Uh, I mentioned earlier that reading is sort of like this meta habit that helps you solve all, all your other problems. So I guess my lesson for reading would be start more books... Uh, no. Would be... Yeah. Start more books, quit most of them, read the great ones twice.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Hm.
6. JCJames Clear
  So if you start more books, you'll be exposed to more ideas. If you quit most of them, if you quit the ones that aren't relevant to you or aren't that good or just aren't a high quality bar, then you'll have the chance to start even more, and when you find the great ones, read them twice because the advice is incredible, and it's potentially life-changing.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Hm, okay.
8. JCJames Clear
  All right, so the first one I would say is reading. Um, the second one is some kind of, something to do with physical movement and strength training. Um, you cannot... Every human has a body, and every human has, like, a physical presence, so learn to use your body in some way to be more alive and to experience what that's like to be human. If you just spend all day in your head or all day staring at a screen, you only kind of get half of what it means to be alive.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
10. JCJames Clear
  So I would say physical strength is another one. And then the third one has to be something along the lines of community, connection, um, serving others. I don't know what exactly that would be. Um, personally, I have felt most engaged when I've been working on a shared mission with a group of people face to face.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Hm.
12. JCJames Clear
  Which is interesting coming from someone who... You know, my business is built online, right? I spend most of my time sending emails to, you know, half a million people or whatever.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Right. [laughs]
14. JCJames Clear
  But I think actually I find more satisfaction and more-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Hm
16. JCJames Clear
  ... uh, purpose in connecting with people face to face. Um, so maybe that would be it. Uh, talk to someone face to face every day.
46:33 – 50:56
Wrap-up: where to find the book, social strategy, one stubborn habit, and greatness
1. LHLewis Howes
  That's cool. Yeah. Well, I gotta acknowledge you, man, for all the work that you're doing to make an impact on people. I think, uh, your writing has really helped transform lives. Whether you know how impactful it is or not, but half a million people is a lot of people, and I know people are doing the action steps that you provide for them. So you constantly doing the work, constantly doing the research, and showing up for people is making a big impact, so I acknowledge you for that. Um, where can we get the book, and where can we follow you and everything else?
2. JCJames Clear
  Yeah. Thanks, man.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Of course.
4. JCJames Clear
  Uh, so the book is called Atomic Habits: Uh, An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones, and it's at atomichabits.com. Uh, if you go to that page, there is a secret chapter that's not included in the actual book.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Oh, snap.
6. JCJames Clear
  There are some exercises and templates that help people kind of implement some of the ideas that we talked about more, and I also have chapter by chapter audio commentary from me on, like, why I wrote this chapter-
7. LHLewis Howes
  Hm
8. JCJames Clear
  ... and what some of the research is behind it, um, and a variety of other resources. That's actually just, uh, a few of the things. But anyway, all that stuff is available at atomichabits.com.
9. LHLewis Howes
  I like it, man. Yeah, you've got a lot of actionable things in here, which is really cool. So, and even more at atomichabits.com. So they can get it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, everywhere else as well, right?
10. JCJames Clear
  You got it everywhere books are sold.
11. LHLewis Howes
  And your website, jamesclear.com.
12. JCJames Clear
  That's right.
13. LHLewis Howes
  They can subscribe there. Are you on social media at all?
14. JCJames Clear
  Yeah, so if you go to jamesclear.com, uh, you'll see Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook on there. Uh, and you can also just poke around in the articles. Like, I, I have most of my writing organized by topic or category-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm
16. JCJames Clear
  ... so people can just check out what's interesting to them.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Got it. Do you hang out on social media at all personally?
18. JCJames Clear
  I use Twitter mostly. Um, that's the one that I've found most useful. Social media is kind of interesting because the people you follow, it's like creating your own little city, and so you get to choose who the citizens are.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Hm.
20. JCJames Clear
  And you should be very careful about who you put in your city-
21. LHLewis Howes
  Sure
22. JCJames Clear
  ... because it changes what you're exposed to all the time.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
24. JCJames Clear
  So I've spent more time cultivating Twitter and who I'm following.
25. LHLewis Howes
  Smart.
26. JCJames Clear
  Uh, and that really has changed, like, I find it very useful now. I come across good ideas all the time.
27. LHLewis Howes
  That's great.
28. JCJames Clear
  Um, Instagram and Facebook I use less, but both can still be useful if you follow that same strategy.
29. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, that's cool. Huh. All right. I like it, man. Um, when's the book out? What's the date? They can pre-order right now.
30. JCJames Clear
  That's right. It's available now. Uh, launches on October 16th, and, um, yeah, I'm excited to share it with the world.

Episode duration: 51:13

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Transcript of episode xRse5I_p7tA

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Mastering the art of showing up with “two-minute” habits

Reconnecting and James Clear’s approach: science-based and practical

Why habits compound over time—and why “tasty now” often loses later

Identity-based habits: casting votes for who you want to become

James Clear’s non-negotiables: exercise, reading, writing, walks, and sleep

Goals vs. systems: why outcomes don’t change without changing inputs

How long does it take to form a habit? The real answer is repetition

Why James Clear’s angle differs: combining motivation and reinforcement

The four stages of habits: cue, craving, response, reward

Changing interpretation through social norms: join the right tribe

Make the response easy: reduce friction with the two-minute rule and better setup

Rewards and immediate satisfaction: progress, product design, and video games

Why habits relapse: environment, social pressure, and physical design

Starting from rock bottom: pick one habit, build progress, and rethink willpower

Accountability, coaches, and the downside of autopilot habits

Three truths: reading deeply, moving physically, and connecting face to face

Wrap-up: where to find the book, social strategy, one stubborn habit, and greatness

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