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Lewis HowesLewis Howes

How to Build a Multi-Billion Dollar Empire | Tilman Fertitta and Lewis Howes

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Tilman FertittaguestLewis Howeshost
Oct 8, 201937mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 0:34

    “Be the bull”: opportunistic acquisitions and a culture of delivering fast

    1. TF

      You're the ones always that everybody else is worried about.

    2. LH

      Mm.

    3. TF

      It, it's, we bought a couple of companies in the last week.

    4. LH

      Right.

    5. TF

      And it's because we were opportunist, and we're the ones who can always deliver.

    6. LH

      Wow.

    7. TF

      Okay? It's just, it's just a culture of we are the best. [upbeat music]

  2. 0:34 – 3:20

    Sustaining competitiveness without burnout

    1. LH

      I'm so excited about this. We're here with the man, Tilman. Thank you so much for being here.

    2. TF

      Absolutely.

    3. LH

      I appreciate you very much.

    4. TF

      Looking forward to it, my friend.

    5. LH

      I'm so excited. Your new book is out, Shut Up and Listen. I've been going through it, and there's not many books that I like to read. I like to skim a lot of books, but I'm really diving into the stories of yours, so I really appreciate it. And there's... Every, every once in a while, there are people that I really wanna learn from, and I've been excited about this interview because you've done something that very few people have ever done. You've built an empire, and it's amazing what you've created in the last 30, 30-plus years-

    6. TF

      Yeah

    7. LH

      ... of your business. And I love that you keep taking risks. We were just talking about this off-camera about how you were hungry about this book project. This book project is probably making you the least amount of money-

    8. TF

      [laughs] Trust me

    9. LH

      ... of any project. [laughs]

    10. TF

      I spend more money flying my G5-

    11. LH

      Right

    12. TF

      ... to do interviews than I'm ever gonna make from the book.

    13. LH

      Exactly.

    14. TF

      [laughs]

    15. LH

      So this is making you, this is making you the least amount of money probably. A big impact. You know, it's making you some money, but it's also, you're just like, "I'm so hungry, and I'm willing to sacrifice to stay competitive." And you were telling me that most people aren't willing to stay competitive for a long time, and that's what's really I've seen and admired about you, is how you're able to buy, you know, the Houston Rockets, how you're able to do these big projects and buy these things because you're so competitive consistently over decades. Where most people go in for three to five years, something doesn't work out, and then they stop their competitive edge. How do you keep that edge?

    16. TF

      You know, it's really interesting 'cause I, I, I did an interview yesterday with somebody who's really popular right now. And, and they're very young, and yet they said they already have those, those valleys where they went into a funk, like they were burnt out.

    17. LH

      Right. After like-

    18. TF

      And yeah

    19. LH

      ... two years of working hard or something like that.

    20. TF

      Yeah, yeah. And I just said, "You know what's funny is I've never had a burnout, ever." I've been, and I've been, I've been going like this for, for, uh, a long time.

    21. LH

      [laughs] Decades.

    22. TF

      35, 40 years even.

    23. LH

      Wow.

    24. TF

      I mean, I started going at it in my teens hard, and, and, uh, I never had that burnout.

    25. LH

      Mm.

    26. TF

      I, and I think that's kind of a state of mind that, uh, if you... You're gonna get burnt out if you wanna get burnt out. But, but I, I always was going like this, and so I just kind of felt like I'm so fortunate to, to, to have it going. Why should I ever let the momentum-

    27. LH

      Mm

    28. TF

      ... go the other way?

    29. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    30. TF

      And then of course, you know, one of my great sayings is there's positive people and negative people. And, and when you're with a negative person or you're with a positive person, one of two things is gonna happen. The negative person is gonna make the positive person negative-

  3. 3:20 – 4:58

    Building loyalty at scale: long-tenured leaders and high standards

    1. LH

      Right. How do you spot the people who are truly wanting to achieve and who have that positive energy? Because sometimes people, you could bring people on your team, and they could have that in the beginning, but they could kinda lose that, or they could spin off a negative cycle. Do you, are you very loyal to the people that you have on, in your companies-

    2. TF

      You know, it's-

    3. LH

      ... like to give them multiple chances, or is it like, "Okay, enough is enough," like-

    4. TF

      No, you're-

    5. LH

      ... cutthroat?

    6. TF

      What a great question that is because, uh, I even list a bunch of people at the front of this book-

    7. LH

      Yeah, I saw that. Yeah

    8. TF

      ... who really, who really helped make me become who I am. Because even though I'm the leader, I'm the bull, you are dependent on people when you build a company my size of 60,000 people.

    9. LH

      That's it?

    10. TF

      And, and-

    11. LH

      Pretty small, right? [laughs]

    12. TF

      [laughs] And, and I truly, I truly, uh, probably have 25 vice presidents that average 25 years.

    13. LH

      Wow.

    14. TF

      Okay? I, and I tease my people about this all the time.

    15. LH

      Wow.

    16. TF

      I go, "I never, ever, in the last 35 years, have probably lost, direct answers to me, maybe one or two people."

    17. LH

      Mm.

    18. TF

      "And so why are y'all losing them every year?" [laughs]

    19. LH

      Right, right.

    20. TF

      And, and, and so if... when people ask me, "What, what are you most proud of?" And I, I think it's the people that truly deal with me on a day-to-day basis. Even my assistants, I have one for 27 years-

    21. LH

      Wow

    22. TF

      ... and, um, one for 26 years.

    23. LH

      Wow.

    24. TF

      You know, they truly grew up with me. You know, they were young girls, [laughs] or not young girls anymore.

    25. LH

      Right, right, right, right, right, right.

    26. TF

      [laughs] And, and, uh, and I, and so... And, and I think it is. If they'd tell you, they'd say, "That's the hardest son of a bitch to work for in the world-

    27. LH

      I bet you that

    28. TF

      ... but I would not work for anybody else."

    29. LH

      Wow.

    30. TF

      I think that's what they would all tell you.

  4. 4:58 – 7:10

    “We eat the weak in bad times”: what “the bull” means in practice

    1. LH

      Well, I mean, in a world where it seems like everyone wants to change jobs every year or two because they want something new and exciting, how do you cultivate that, uh, culture or environment where they're, like, still excited every year? Is it 'cause you're acquiring new companies all the time and-

    2. TF

      Well, I, I think that's part of it is, that they know that, that we're the bull and, and that, uh, you know, even in tough times. If I call them into my boardroom, it's not, "Hey, we're getting bought out," it's, "Who are we buying?" Because-

    3. LH

      Mm

    4. TF

      ... we eat the weak in bad times, so.

    5. LH

      Wow.

    6. TF

      So it's, I think it's leadership, you know, respect. It's, it's, it's knowing that-

    7. LH

      Mm

    8. TF

      ... that, that we're the bull out there in our industries and, and, uh-

    9. LH

      For those don't, don't know what you mean by the bull who haven't read the book, what does that mean to be the bull?

    10. TF

      Just you're the ones always that everybody else is worried about.

    11. LH

      Mm.

    12. TF

      It, it's... We bought a couple of companies in the last week.

    13. LH

      Right.

    14. TF

      And it's because we were opportunist, and we're the ones who can always deliver.

    15. LH

      Wow.

    16. TF

      And, and we're the ones who have the funding, the due diligence to do it quickly. We outwork people. We, you know, a, a l- a lawyer of mine who handles all the M&A, he was at the office from 9:00 AM Sunday a week ago till Monday night at 9:00 PM, 36 straight hours-

    17. LH

      Wow

    18. TF

      ... getting a deal done. Okay, it's just, it's just a culture of we are the best. [laughs]

    19. LH

      [laughs]

    20. TF

      And, and, uh, not that there's not great companies out there.

    21. LH

      Sure.

    22. TF

      And, you know, we're just still in the whole world, you know, a company.

    23. LH

      Right.

    24. TF

      But, but, uh, and, and what we do, and, and doing mergers and acquisitions in the restaurant business or gaming business or whatever, aquariums, amusement parks.

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    26. TF

      But, but we outworked everybody to, to get the Houston Rockets. I mean, my team, during Hurricane Harvey, when everybody was flooding, was still at the office trying to get that contract signed because we wanted it done by-

    27. LH

      Wow

    28. TF

      ... Monday of Labor Day. And, and, uh-

    29. LH

      During the big flood in Houston-

    30. TF

      Yeah, yeah

  5. 7:10 – 11:13

    Why he paid the premium for the Houston Rockets

    1. LH

      Now, why pay the most premium? Why not try to, like, create the win-win, get the best deal for yourself? Why say, "I'm gonna overpay"? Maybe it's not an overpay in your mind-

    2. TF

      [laughs]

    3. LH

      ... but why do that and when everyone's telling you, "Uh, maybe that's a little too much," you know?

    4. TF

      Because I, I, I listen. I listen, and I'm gonna tell you what I heard.

    5. LH

      Hmm.

    6. TF

      I heard from some very, very smart people, and this is one of the reasons that the book's titled Shut Up and Listen is because I do listen. And, and, um, I had some really smart people who know a lot of people who went after sports franchises say they quit too soon. It's the biggest regret they ever had. And-

    7. LH

      Meaning they sold the bus-

    8. TF

      No, no, no, no, no, no

    9. LH

      ... they sold the franchise or they-

    10. TF

      They went after, say, the LA Clippers, or they went after the Golden State Warriors. They went after... And, and they... And people that could afford to do it. And, and they just said, "Oh, I'm not gonna pay that extra 100 million or 200 million or whatever," and then they had to go buy a team in the years to come somewhere else, not in their hometown-

    11. LH

      Right, or, or a minor league team or something

    12. TF

      ... and, and pay more-

    13. LH

      Yeah, whatever

    14. TF

      ... or what- whatever. And, and-

    15. LH

      Wow

    16. TF

      ... and so I was told there's, you know, you're, there's never been a team sell for less [laughs] in sports. And, and it's just a mistake you don't make. And so I listened to people and said-

    17. LH

      Interesting

    18. TF

      ... "You, you could regret this." And, and it's kinda funny, but I already knew I was not gonna lose, okay? I was not gonna lose this opportunity. And when other people... I even had the, the, Tad Brown, who, who I've known for years, who runs the business side of the team even today, call me at one point and said, "Y'all weren't in the room kicking tires like some of the other people. Are you losing interest?" I said, "No, Tad, I haven't lost interest at all." I said, "Everybody else is in there trying to justify how do you pay $2 billion," 'cause they made it really clear that they wouldn't sell it for under two billion.

    19. LH

      Wow.

    20. TF

      They're all trying to figure out how you pay that for it. I was out there making sure I could raise the money. And so-

    21. LH

      I like that

    22. TF

      ... [sighs] and no, seriously, because-

    23. LH

      You weren't even thinking

    24. TF

      ... what-

    25. LH

      You were saying, "I'm going-"

    26. TF

      No, I was not. Oh-

    27. LH

      Yeah

    28. TF

      ... right. I knew that the team on a bad year is gonna make 40 million, and on a good year is gonna make 90 million, okay? I knew that, okay?

    29. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    30. TF

      And I'd known Tad for 15 years. But if you start trying to say, "Okay, if it makes 40 million or it makes 80 million-

  6. 11:13 – 13:07

    What matters (and what doesn’t) in deals: regret, emotion, and “in the box vs. out of the box”

    1. LH

      What are the-

    2. TF

      I hope I have the opportunity to do it again-

    3. LH

      I, uh-

    4. TF

      ... that it's something I want that bad. [laughs]

    5. LH

      [laughs] What is the things that people should be looking at? You mentioned people are looking at the wrong things. Th- they're thinking about the price or the other things. What should they be thinking about if they want to acquire something? Whether you're a small business owner that wants to acquire something for 100 grand or you're, you know, a billionaire like yourself trying to acquire something for 2.2 billion, what is the thing they look for?

    6. TF

      Well, if it's something that you really, really want and you can afford and it doesn't really matter-

    7. LH

      Mm-hmm

    8. TF

      ... uh, you should just go get it, okay? If it's-

    9. LH

      Why? Is that for the peace of mind?

    10. TF

      Because-

    11. LH

      Is that for the-

    12. TF

      Just for the peace of mind and so you never regret it, okay?

    13. LH

      Hmm.

    14. TF

      I, uh, I can go back 20, 25 years ago, and I've [laughs] been asked this the last few days. What is... I, I had a chance to buy this unbelievable car collection about 25 years ago that had great muscle cars right when they were co- It was unbelievable.

    15. LH

      Yeah.

    16. TF

      And I was really buying it at a bargain because the father had died. The son was selling it.

    17. LH

      Wanted to get money.

    18. TF

      Didn't give a damn.

    19. LH

      Yeah.

    20. TF

      And, and, and I, I lost a deal over a couple hundred thousand dollars that today, if I owned that, I would just walk in there and say, "This is mine."

    21. LH

      Yeah.

    22. TF

      I just love it. And, and I, and I learned a lesson. And, and 25 years later, that's the one deal that comes back and haunts me, 'cause I negotiated a little bit too hard for something that really mattered.

    23. LH

      Mm.

    24. TF

      Now, if so- now let's look at in box of a real business deal, you can't get caught up emotionally. There's always another deal, and I walk away from deals all the time.

    25. LH

      Really?

    26. TF

      All the time, because there's, there's always another deal. But you know what? There's only so many great car collections.

    27. LH

      There's only so many pro sports teams.

    28. TF

      There's only one NBA team in your own hometown.

    29. LH

      Right.

    30. TF

      Okay? And so there's certain things you don't worry about.

  7. 13:07 – 14:34

    Lewis’s example: buying Greatness.com as a one-of-one asset

    1. LH

      I'm glad you said that because I, I acquired something a couple years ago that I was... I did this move without knowing I was doing a Tilman move. Uh, Greatness.com was available, and it was probably overpriced.

    2. TF

      What was it?

    3. LH

      Greatness.com.

    4. TF

      Oh, okay. Okay.

    5. LH

      In my space, you know, there's only one word for a domain, and my, my word is greatness with the School-

    6. TF

      Right, right, right

    7. LH

      ... School of Greatness podcast.

    8. TF

      Sure, sure.

    9. LH

      And I wanted to build something bigger than just this show. Wanted to build a media engine around this word, that every athlete uses when I see them talking about it on social media, in press conferences-

    10. TF

      100%, greatness

    11. LH

      ... all the other brands talk about it in their slogans.

    12. TF

      It's greatness.

    13. LH

      Built for greatness, pursuit of greatness.

    14. TF

      I love that.

    15. LH

      And I was just like-

    16. TF

      I truly love that

    17. LH

      ... I wanna own this word. I don't want anyone else to have the word, I wanna own it, and there's only one domain in the world. You know, it's like this franchise of one. And I was just like, "I want that."

    18. TF

      I'm s- And were you able to get it?

    19. LH

      I bought it, yeah.

    20. TF

      For... I know, but I'm surprised you could get it trademarked because it's a word.

    21. LH

      Oh, not a trademark.

    22. TF

      Or did you trademark-

    23. LH

      Just a domain

    24. TF

      Okay.

    25. LH

      Just a domain.

    26. TF

      Just a domain-

    27. LH

      Yeah, so I can build-

    28. TF

      ... for a podcast or something

    29. LH

      ... for anything I wanna build on it.

    30. TF

      Okay.

  8. 14:34 – 15:26

    No single role model: learning from many people, plus a lingering college regret

    1. LH

      Yeah, yeah. So I, so I gotta learn how to continue to level up like you're doing now. Um, I'm curious, who was the most influential person in your life growing up?

    2. TF

      Yeah, there, there, there wasn't. There just...

    3. LH

      There wasn't one?

    4. TF

      There, no. There just... I, I would love to say there was, but, uh, uh, there were a, a lot of people that were even family members that were entrepreneurs, uh, that had some success. I mean, not great success, but were still very successful. Uh, th- there were people in Houston, there were people that I just watched around the world, and you just said, "God." But I never had that one person, but I saw little things that different people did.

    5. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    6. TF

      And, and I picked up different things.

    7. LH

      Lots of mentors.

    8. TF

      Yeah.

    9. LH

      Lots of, yeah.

    10. TF

      Like, yeah. And I, and I kinda looked, and I liked the way this person handled themselves. I kinda liked the way this person handled themselves about this.

    11. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    12. TF

      I just never had that one person.

    13. LH

      Yeah.

    14. TF

      And I, maybe I wish I did, but I, I just didn't.

    15. LH

      It turned out okay, yeah. [laughs]

    16. TF

      No, it's okay.

  9. 15:26 – 19:06

    Business first: don’t build a lifestyle bigger than the company

    1. LH

      What was the mistake or hard lesson you learned in your early years or in your teen years that really embarrassed you, that really made you feel ashamed or, uh, you know, not proud about yourself that you did that, or you said that, or you acted in a certain way, or someone, you really let someone down, that has stuck with you all these years?

    2. TF

      You know, I-

    3. LH

      The lesson

    4. TF

      ... I have, I have to say I never had that big, you know, hit over the head with, uh, where I had to s- w- you know, sell a car or sell a house or whatever because things weren't going well. And yet, I've been through some tough times.

    5. LH

      Oh, yeah.

    6. TF

      But, but, but also, and I, I talk about this in the book, don't ever outlive where you are in, in, in your business life. And, you know-

    7. LH

      What's that mean?

    8. TF

      What that means is, is that there's so many people that get a little success in a business, and they go get a lifestyle-

    9. LH

      Mm-hmm

    10. TF

      ... that is bigger than the business. And then all of a sudden, the business takes a dip a little bit and, and, and they've gotta keep up this lifestyle.

    11. LH

      Mm.

    12. TF

      So they're sucking more money out of the business than they should. You know, I complain to my people all the time, "I, I'm poor. I don't have any money."

    13. LH

      [laughs]

    14. TF

      Because, because I always put everything back in the business, and I just try to take out a few crumbs to, to, to live on.

    15. LH

      Right, right, yeah.

    16. TF

      Be- because I've always made the business first-

    17. LH

      Mm-hmm

    18. TF

      ... and not me first.

    19. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    20. TF

      But that's why I have a great business, and I own 100% of it, so it really doesn't matter. But a lot of people start, they start with a company and, and they become entrepreneurs. They get some success, and they're buying more houses-

    21. LH

      Yeah

    22. TF

      ... they can afford, or more cars, or art, or they, they l- philanthropy. "Oh, I wanna be recognized for giving this away." And then all of a sudden their business dips, and they can't do it anymore. And then their business fails 'cause they took all the money out, and they're not putting it back in 'cause they're trying to keep their lifestyle. I always made my business number one. I never put myself-

    23. LH

      Mm

    24. TF

      ... ahead of my business.

    25. LH

      Wow.

    26. TF

      And that's one of the reasons I've gone like this.

    27. LH

      Wow.

    28. TF

      Never put anything ahead of it.

    29. LH

      Wow. Was there an embarrassing time as, like, a teenager before you got into business where you did something and you were like, "Man, I shouldn't have done that or said that," you know, in your teen years or-

    30. TF

      You know, I've said so many things I shouldn't have said.

  10. 19:06 – 22:41

    Raising respectful kids with wealth: modeling behavior and controlling spending

    1. LH

      Now, I'm always curious about... I don't have kids, and you have four kids, right?

    2. TF

      Kids, yes.

    3. LH

      I'm always curious to ask my, um-

    4. TF

      Good people

    5. LH

      ... very s- financially successful, uh, mentors who have kids, 'cause I wanna prepare, prepare myself for my future. And I'm, I'm always asking, how do you raise kids that aren't entitled when you essentially have everything available, when you could buy them a car, when you could buy them the nicest, you know, trips or whatever it may be. When they do get to go on the jet, I'm not saying that they do or not with you, but how are you, not train, but how do you educate and cultivate great kids? 'Cause I, what I've heard about you and your kids is that they're very respectful. I don't know if all of them are, but I know I've heard-

    6. TF

      No, all four of them. No, no, no

    7. LH

      ... that they're very respectful.

    8. TF

      Every single parent will tell you-

    9. LH

      They care deeply about-

    10. TF

      Yeah

    11. LH

      ... people, they're courteous.

    12. TF

      You would never know they grew up in the lifestyle they have.

    13. LH

      Nice.

    14. TF

      'Cause they've grown up at, from the beginning. You know, they-

    15. LH

      So, yeah, so how did you-

    16. TF

      They, they grew up flying on... 'Cause I had my first jet in '91, and I think the first one was born in '92. So, so-

    17. LH

      So how did you teach them? How did you-

    18. TF

      Y- you know, I just-

    19. LH

      ... lead them?

    20. TF

      You know, I think their mother had a lot to do with it.

    21. LH

      Mm.

    22. TF

      'Cause she's very, uh, balanced. And, and, uh, we just never act like we were that special, and they always saw me work hard. I was special because we had nice things, but I never acted like I was special.

    23. LH

      Mm.

    24. TF

      They still saw me talk to everybody, dress the same, be nice to everybody. Um, and they just, they just picked it up. And, and, and, uh, at, at the same time, I mean, they've gotten on my ass because-

    25. LH

      [laughs]

    26. TF

      ... th- they, they went to the right schools, and they-

    27. LH

      Mm

    28. TF

      ... lived in the right neighborhood, and so therefore, they had lots of friends that were spoiled. They also looked at the people that were generational money.

    29. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    30. TF

      That you go back generations, and, and, and they didn't like what they saw in those kids and how-

  11. 22:41 – 32:04

    Staying grounded: gradual wealth, constant vigilance, and staying relevant in the community

    1. LH

      How did you keep this attitude for yourself, when I'm sure a lot of your friends who have accumulated wealth over the years, maybe you saw them start to change that grounded attitude? How did you keep that for yourself when so many people are pitching you? You know, on your TV show, which is great, it's like everyone's coming to you for the answers. Everyone wants an opportunity from you. Everyone's got the deal. Everyone's... How do you stay grounded? And I'm sure you're, you know...

    2. TF

      It, it just happened over a period of time. You know, it's not like I was a, a tech baby, and I had an app, and all of a sudden I wake up-

    3. LH

      Yeah

    4. TF

      ... and I'm worth this.

    5. LH

      Yeah, yeah.

    6. TF

      You know, it's been like this for 35, 40 years, you know, since I was 20 years old. And so it, it... I just, I never had that issue. And so-

    7. LH

      Yeah

    8. TF

      ... I didn't wake up one day and I was rich. I mean-

    9. LH

      Right

    10. TF

      ... even when I took my company public in '93, I was already worth a few million dollars. And so, you know, even though you got a bunch of paper net worth, it just-

    11. LH

      Right

    12. TF

      ... still wasn't-

    13. LH

      So the paper net worth I think was 100 million at that time.

    14. TF

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    15. LH

      And then what changed for you mentally when you saw that kind of paper net worth? When you're like, "Okay, I was worth a few million," or whatever it was then, but now I'm on paper worth...

    16. TF

      Well, I mean, once again, uh, I was smart enough to realize that that paper net worth could go away. I watched many companies have IPOs, and then three years later-

    17. LH

      And then tanks

    18. TF

      ... you know, tank. And so I didn't... Uh, I know there's a paddle for everybody's ass, and, and-

    19. LH

      Right

    20. TF

      ... and I talk about it in the book, and, and I think that's probably, you know, what I could give everybody out there who's ever made a few dollars. Uh, you better watch for... Even today, you know, when I came out yesterday, was number 140 on the Forbes list, 4.9 billion, I still get up every day and worry, and worry if that paddle-

    21. LH

      That's crazy

    22. TF

      ... is gonna get my ass.

    23. LH

      Wow.

    24. TF

      Okay. And, and the day you stop worrying and you just spend freely, the paddle's gonna get you. 'Cause you don't know what's gonna happen. Is our government gonna change to a socialist government?

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    26. TF

      Is, is all of a sudden, somebody gonna come out and the millennials say, "We're never gonna eat meat again" [laughs]

    27. LH

      Right, right, right, right.

    28. TF

      You know, you just don't know.

    29. LH

      Yeah.

    30. TF

      But, but, but we've seen some crazy things happen in our world and during my lifetime and, and, uh, I- In your lifetime already

  12. 32:04 – 37:21

    Tools and principles to leave behind: production tradeoffs, three truths, and defining greatness

    1. LH

      I love this. Uh, I've got a few questions left for you, and this has been really inspiring. Your sh- is your show on still? Or... 'Cause I love it.

    2. TF

      N- not, not, not this year. And, and-

    3. LH

      I loved it.

    4. TF

      I know.

    5. LH

      Yeah.

    6. TF

      But the problem is, and you should understand this with production and everything, is-

    7. LH

      Oh, it haunts me forever

    8. TF

      ... they, they wanna shoot 12 shows-

    9. LH

      Oh, yeah

    10. TF

      ... because you bring the crews together. And the first year, I shot six shows, and then we shot 12 shows, and then we shot-

    11. LH

      That's a lot of work

    12. TF

      ... 12 shows.

    13. LH

      That's a lot of work.

    14. TF

      And so they want to shoot 12, and I wanna shoot six.

    15. LH

      Yeah.

    16. TF

      I just can't give up four months.

    17. LH

      It's a lot of work.

    18. TF

      And then another f- and then a, the fifth month going back and re-editing and green screen, so it truly takes-

    19. LH

      It's a lot of work

    20. TF

      ... it is truly full-time, basically. You know, four days a week-

    21. LH

      Yeah

    22. TF

      ... for, for, for five months.

    23. LH

      It's a lot.

    24. TF

      And, and, yeah, I love going to the basketball games, and all of a sudden, I'm, I'm sitting here playing the Lakers or the Clippers at home this year, and I have to be on the other end of the United States, you know, to shoot a show, so.

    25. LH

      Yeah. I know the feeling.

    26. TF

      So I'll do six, but I'm not doing 12.

    27. LH

      Yeah, I hear you. It's a great show, though.

    28. TF

      It was fun.

    29. LH

      If you wanna go watch and binge it-

    30. TF

      A lot of fun

Episode duration: 37:36

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